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petvas
May 6, 2011, 08:22 AM
When I initially installed Lion I was very impressed by the new features. Now, and after I have been using it for a week now, I not that impressed anymore. I think there is room for improvements:


* Launchpad: The idea is good but the implementation could be much better. You should make launchpad behave like a computer application and not like an iPad one! Right click should offer context menu to create new folders, rename and delete folders. Right clicking on an app should offer options to move it to an existing folder, or create a new one. Launchpad should also have the option not to run in full screen mode! In its current incarnation I am not going to be using it. I still prefer Spotlight for running apps. For organizing them I still prefer the apps folder on the dock.
* Full screen mode: A good idea that works very well if you have small screens or/and resolution. On my ACD I have so much space that for most apps, full screen mode is an overkill. I don't see me using it a lot. Maybe when Aperture gets it I will use it.
* Mission Control: This one I like. It combines spaces and expose very nice.
* Mail.app: The new layout is nice but I would like to see some new features regarding Exchange Server. More compatibility to Exchange would be nice. Support for Out of Office messages, categories and Exchange tasks are essential.
* Saving the state of apps: It does take a while to get used to the fact that the state of all apps is always being saved on exit. I would prefer to have the option (without using the Alt key) to not save the state of an app by default. There are situations you don't want to have an app resume its state. Imagine showing a video to someone. You close quicktime and then after a while you need quicktime again. You open it and the video resumes...Not very good!
* Finder: I prefer to have the devices on top on the left side of Finder and not on the bottom. There should be an option to change that.



maflynn
May 6, 2011, 08:30 AM
You know there's already a couple of threads discussing the features of Lion, why create another?

petvas
May 6, 2011, 08:40 AM
You know there's already a couple of threads discussing the features of Lion, why create another?

Because after a while all these threads become so big, it is difficult to keep track of what's going on. You don't have to read the thread if you don't want to.

petvas
May 6, 2011, 09:01 AM
To return to the thread, Lion has been remarkable stable so far. I like it better than Snow Leopard, it is just that most of the new features aren't really cutting it for me. Are there others here who feel the same?

aleni
May 6, 2011, 09:06 AM
one thing in lion that will not get used for me is the launchpad. damn on my 27" ACD it's so big. i remember all of my installed apps and prefer to use spotlight for easy way to launch them.

petvas
May 6, 2011, 09:10 AM
one thing in lion that will not get used for me is the launchpad. damn on my 27" ACD it's so big. i remember all of my installed apps and prefer to use spotlight for easy way to launch them.

I totally agree. Launchpad should run in a window. Spotlight is still the way to go for power users. Of course,normal people will like the launchpad.

jsgreen
May 6, 2011, 09:42 AM
Is anyone running Lion on a lower-powered machine? I'd like to hear feedback on those who have tried it on an 11" MBA.

maflynn
May 6, 2011, 09:47 AM
Is anyone running Lion on a lower-powered machine? I'd like to hear feedback on those who have tried it on an 11" MBA.

Search this forum, there's some threads about folks running lion on a core duo (not core 2 duo) cpu

aleni
May 6, 2011, 09:53 AM
Is anyone running Lion on a lower-powered machine? I'd like to hear feedback on those who have tried it on an 11" MBA.

tried Lion with my 11" base air but with 4 gig of rams. smooth as butter. i think the air is capable running Lion without any hiccups. make sure the minimum ram is 4GB.

shenfrey
May 6, 2011, 11:40 AM
honestly, it feels like Lion is more of an experiment then an actual upgrade. Maybe preparing not just for the future of IOS but Mac OS to.

poobear
May 6, 2011, 11:54 AM
* Full screen mode: A good idea that works very well if you have small screens or/and resolution. On my ACD I have so much space that for most apps, full screen mode is an overkill. I don't see me using it a lot. Maybe when Aperture gets it I will use it.

Are you saying that you are not impressed by this feature just because it doesn't fit YOUR need, even though you emphasize that it works very well if you have a small screen (most Mac users have the laptop)?

Is anyone running Lion on a lower-powered machine? I'd like to hear feedback on those who have tried it on an 11" MBA.
Runs smooth as butter on my 11" 2GB machine.

petvas
May 6, 2011, 12:00 PM
Are you saying that you are not impressed by this feature just because it doesn't fit YOUR need, even though you emphasize that it works very well if you have a small screen (most Mac users have the laptop)?


Runs smooth as butter on my 11" 2GB machine.

I am saying that this feature isn't very important to me. I know that for people with relative small displays or other needs, that full screen is a good idea (as I said before).
I am still giving Full screen mode a chance. I have been using mail and Safari in full screen the whole day and I am trying to find reasons to use it, but I think it doesn't fit in my workflows.

talmy
May 6, 2011, 12:49 PM
Looking at the GUI aspects, Lion seems to be optimized for small screens and is particularly irritating for using with multiple displays. "Full Screen" blanks any secondary displays! Agree that Launchpad looks ridiculous.

I don't like the change in operation for Spaces, and the change in keyboard assignment seems gratuitous, but at least the assignments can be changed back.

However the changes "under the hood" (particularly resume, version control, and off-line TimeMachine) look good indeed, but most will require updated software. I expect the iWork suite to be updated at the time of Lion's release, which will help. Other Apple-centric developers will certainly play along, but I expect long waits for Microsoft Office and Adobe CS.

Thunderbird
May 6, 2011, 04:06 PM
Is it true you actually have to launch Launchpad first, then find your app and click it open? if so, how is that an improvement? By the time you perform those steps, you could have typed the app name into Spotlight, or opened the app folder in the dock.

Maybe there's a way to have Launchpad open upon startup of your machine by default, then just click open app icons from there, much in the same way Windows users have icons pinned to their desktops?

Looking forward to WWDC in a month when we should get a better idea of what Lion is really going to be like.

petvas
May 6, 2011, 04:17 PM
Is it true you actually have to launch Launchpad first, then find your app and click it open? if so, how is that an improvement? By the time you perform those steps, you could have typed the app name into Spotlight, or opened the app folder in the dock.

Maybe there's a way to have Launchpad open upon startup of your machine by default, then just click open app icons from there, much in the same way Windows users have icons pinned to their desktops?

Looking forward to WWDC in a month when we should get a better idea of what Lion is really going to be like.

Yes, it is true. Launchpad is actually useful for people that come from an iPad to a Mac. They would find something familiar to work with.
In its current incarnation this is really for beginners. If Apple adds more organization features, this could become a really nice way to organize apps.

JoeG4
May 6, 2011, 04:22 PM
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7/ateaseuserfolder6923567.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/ateaseuserfolder6923567.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://www.technewsdaily.com/images/stories/mac-osx-lion-launch%20pad_101020-02.jpg

How far we've come.

petvas
May 6, 2011, 04:24 PM
Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/ateaseuserfolder6923567.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Image (http://www.technewsdaily.com/images/stories/mac-osx-lion-launch%20pad_101020-02.jpg)

How far we've come.

It just looks prettier.

bedifferent
May 6, 2011, 05:17 PM
It just looks prettier.

Exactly. Fine tuned for the new Joe-sumer iOS market, but nothing mind blowing for us Prosumers.

petvas
May 6, 2011, 05:21 PM
Exactly. Fine tuned for the new Joe-sumer iOS market, but nothing mind blowing for us Prosumers.

From all the new features in Lion I am pretty sure I won't be using one: The Launchpad. It is crippled and acts as an iOS app. What happened to right clicking? Context Menus? Why do I need to drag an app over another in order to create a folder? Why can't I just right click and create an empty folder? When Apple makes the Launchpad a Desktop OS app, I might use it.

Lukeit
May 7, 2011, 10:59 AM
I totally agree. Launchpad should run in a window. Spotlight is still the way to go for power users. Of course,normal people will like the launchpad.

I used to use Spotlight on Snowleopard for launching any apps as it was really very snappy, but in Lion Spotlight is nearly unusable: it takes ages to deliver its results and now launchpad is the only way.
Do you too find Spotlight slow and sluggish in Lion or am I the only one?
BTW i am running Lion on both a iMac and MBP 17 and spotlight speed is nearly the same!

petvas
May 7, 2011, 11:06 AM
I used to use Spotlight on Snowleopard for launching any apps as it was really very snappy, but in Lion Spotlight is nearly unusable: it takes ages to deliver its results and now launchpad is the only way.
Do you too find Spotlight slow and sluggish in Lion or am I the only one?
BTW i am running Lion on both a iMac and MBP 17 and spotlight speed is nearly the same!

At first Spotlight was not functioning properly, so I disabled it for the boot volume and reenable it. After that everything worked great. No differences to Snow Leopard apart from the nice previews on the results.

baryon
May 7, 2011, 11:55 AM
Why doesn't Apple just put all the apps on the desktop, and allow people to just swipe through them? Basically this would be exactly like iOS then: the desktop (home screen) would act as the launchpad. You could just have an empty page in the beginning so you could have a clean desktop, and then just swipe left and have all your apps come up.

I just find it very fragmented to have the following:

A desktop where you don't really have anything except removable drives
The Finder where you have everything
The dock where you have some apps you use often + ones you're using now
The launchpad where you have part of what you already have in the finder, just displayed differently


So there are 4 different places you could place your apps, how is this consistent?

petvas
May 7, 2011, 12:13 PM
Why doesn't Apple just put all the apps on the desktop, and allow people to just swipe through them? Basically this would be exactly like iOS then: the desktop (home screen) would act as the launchpad. You could just have an empty page in the beginning so you could have a clean desktop, and then just swipe left and have all your apps come up.

I just find it very fragmented to have the following:

A desktop where you don't really have anything except removable drives
The Finder where you have everything
The dock where you have some apps you use often + ones you're using now
The launchpad where you have part of what you already have in the finder, just displayed differently


So there are 4 different places you could place your apps, how is this consistent?

There are different uses to all of the above features. The Desktop is the place you put temp stuff you need to access fast or you want to think about them later. The Finder is not only for launching apps, it is a file manager.
The Dock is an app launcher and app manager.
The Launchpad is the first feature from Apple that tries to create a unified way of finding, managing and launching apps. I don't like it as it is now, but it could really become something great.

bedifferent
May 7, 2011, 12:26 PM
Why doesn't Apple just put all the apps on the desktop, and allow people to just swipe through them? Basically this would be exactly like iOS then: the desktop (home screen) would act as the launchpad. You could just have an empty page in the beginning so you could have a clean desktop, and then just swipe left and have all your apps come up.

I just find it very fragmented to have the following:

A desktop where you don't really have anything except removable drives
The Finder where you have everything
The dock where you have some apps you use often + ones you're using now
The launchpad where you have part of what you already have in the finder, just displayed differently


So there are 4 different places you could place your apps, how is this consistent?

Interesting. This would be similar to the Dashboard "Dev" mode, in that you can drag a widget to your desktop. I'm certain that once the OS is released someone will find a way to drag folders/icons onto the desktop. My only issue it that it seems to be a flawed concept for a desktop OS. The dock or Spotlight seems to be the best way in accessing applications, at least for me. Arranging icons one at a time into folders, then accessing those folders to open an app is a step or so more than simply clicking on an app in the dock.

That's just my take, doesn't mean I'm right. My only major disappointment is in Apple's continued work to focus on iDevices and the iOS market, now bridging them together. I'd rather them be separate, work well together but not blur the lines. Focus on making OS X and professional systems for those who need it, and yes I know it may be a niche market for some. However, keep this in mind, many businesses invested in PowerMac's and ACD's and Proapps when Apple focused on that market. It may be a small market, but the mass amount that businesses invested in the Professional market for Apple was enough to carry it through before the advent of the iPod and further devices. Many are leaving as we make our living from computers and given the current situation it would seem anti-thetical to invest thousands in Apple products if they do not wish to invest in us.

miscend
May 7, 2011, 12:26 PM
Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/ateaseuserfolder6923567.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Image (http://www.technewsdaily.com/images/stories/mac-osx-lion-launch%20pad_101020-02.jpg)

How far we've come.
Its just prettier. But functionality is pretty much the same.

bcaslis
May 7, 2011, 12:42 PM
Exactly. Fine tuned for the new Joe-sumer iOS market, but nothing mind blowing for us Prosumers.

Nothing?

1.) Full 64 bit OS including 64 bit kernel enabled on machines which you previously couldn't.
2.) TRIM support for Apple SSDs
3.) Better mail app
4.) Full screen support fantastic for smaller screens (think MacBook Air)
5.) Mission control unifies Expose and Spaces

You may not agree with the features, but I find them a significant step up from Snow Leopard.

bedifferent
May 7, 2011, 12:57 PM
Nothing?

1.) Full 64 bit OS including 64 bit kernel enabled on machines which you previously couldn't.
2.) TRIM support for Apple SSDs
3.) Better mail app
4.) Full screen support fantastic for smaller screens (think MacBook Air)
5.) Mission control unifies Expose and Spaces

You may not agree with the features, but I find them a significant step up from Snow Leopard.

Look, I just posted this (long) explanation on another thread. It explains our stance from the professional and business market as this isn't just about the OS:

In order to save time and space, I'l simply address comments made towards me without quoting as they seem to have the same (valid) points.

My issue is not just with Lion, it's with Apple's general direction. I've been developing and beta testing OS X since it was released, back when memberships cost $499+ (this new $99 fee is interesting as it seems Apple may want more consumer feedback when in the past it was purely meant for those who need to rework their applications with the new OS). I still have beta's from back in the Jaguar days with OS X features that were never released, some great ones that would be even perfect presently. This new deployment of monthly builds via the OS X App Store is odd, as before developers would receive beta's almost bi-weekly, with new features and system advancements, and these beta's would require being burnt to a DVD and installed from scratch (this ensured little compatibility issues). It seems the tables have turned, as an iOS developer as well we receive iOS beta's much more frequently compared to OS X updates (when there is one).

It's not just the software but the hardware. Apple's display line since the Studio line to the Apple Cinema Display line had more than one display option. Apple neglected their displays for almost eight years, and replaced a GREAT line that needed almost no tweaking with Spyder Monitor Calibration tools as OS X was coded to work perfectly with their displays. This allowed professionals such as myself all the way to photographers such as Annie Leibovitz to have a great system that produced uniform colors and a near perfect screen to print ratio. Apple simply replaced those displays with one, the same display panel used in their larger iMac. Certainly a cost effective move as the part's are already utilized, all that was needed was a simple tweak in the shell and voila, you have a display. However, one display does not fit all.

PowerMac G4 and G4's were priced around $1450+, and with a 23" or even 30" Apple Cinema Display, you had a great system for around $2500 or $3000. Now, Apple sells the Mac Pro for around that price, with only one display (now around $1000), and while a great display that used LED LCD panels for a great price, again, it's almost double what professionals invested in previous Apple products. Most of us need a powerful system that is upgradable, but we don't need expensive and power Intel Xeon SERVER processors and we need something more flexible than an iMac as most of us use more than one display and need more power for graphics and the such.

Not getting into it more, I'm not lamenting or trying to complain, most of us are disappointed as we have used Apple for our living well before the newcomers. I'm excited that Apple is doing amazingly well, but the company has $50+ billion in the bank. They went into a niche mobile market and made bank, and the professional and business market is not a niche market. Think of the thousands one business spends in upgrading their systems, that's just ONE business. If Apple utilized even a small amount of their cash reserve to re-focus on us, they could easily make a good amount of money and take much of the business market further from Windows/MS.

Alas, this does not seem to be an importance to Cupertino. So a lot of us are moving to systems and companies that seem to be interested in the business and professional market. This means all the time and money we have spent in Apple products is gone, and we have to reinvest in another platform, spending time and money we may not necessarily afford. It's a shame, but please don't dismiss us as complainers or whiners. We are adults, and unlike the majority of new comers, make our living using Apple systems. This is a big deal for us.

petvas
May 7, 2011, 01:02 PM
Nothing?

1.) Full 64 bit OS including 64 bit kernel enabled on machines which you previously couldn't.
2.) TRIM support for Apple SSDs
3.) Better mail app
4.) Full screen support fantastic for smaller screens (think MacBook Air)
5.) Mission control unifies Expose and Spaces

You may not agree with the features, but I find them a significant step up from Snow Leopard.

Most features do sound great but when you get to use the actual OS you don't get the feeling that it is so much of a difference to Snow Leopard. Full screen is great for small displays but not that useful for bigger displays. Mission. Control is nice but nothing revolutionary. The Mail.app is a significant improvement to the Snow Leopard version.
I am not saying that I don't like Lion. On the contrary: I look forward to using it on my productive Mac when it gets released. I am just saying that not all the features work so well as someone could think of. The new interface is better, the multitouch gestures are really great and Safari is very fast.
Actually here is my list of things that are really great in Lion:

Mail.app muchly improved
Safari is very fast
Restarting retains the state of all open apps
Installation on an SSD took 6 minutes on my Mac Pro :)
Recovery partition
Autocorrect in the OS (like in iOS)
Versioning when iWork and Office become compatible
Full screen mode when Aperture supports it. For other people it is already nice to have it now.


The things I don't like that much:

There is no way to change the default behavior of apps regarding their state. Cmd-Alt-Q can used for that (if you remember to do this)
Each desktop appears in random order in Mission Control (might be a bug)
Launchpad is a big fail. No context menus, it just offers the exact same functionality as on iOS...
Devices appear in Finder on the bottom left, instead of top left and I hate that. No option to change that.
Safari in full screen mode doesn't offer an expose. When in full screen mode the open tabs aren't visible.
The default behavior of the dock. Open apps do not have the blue indicators..
Scrolling is by default like in iOS..inverted. I hate that

Blakeasd
May 7, 2011, 03:29 PM
I think there should be no launchpad and you can flick through icons on your desktop. Launchpad is nice, but the implementation of the technology isn't great.

bcaslis
May 7, 2011, 08:19 PM
...It explains our stance ...

...most of us are disappointed ...

...So a lot of us are moving to systems and companies that seem to be interested in the business and professional market. ...


You have a perfect right to express your opinion. But you seem to represent yourself as the majority view. I would disagree with that.

And I've been using OS X since the original public beta also.

Cougarcat
May 7, 2011, 09:31 PM
I totally agree. Launchpad should run in a window. .

That's essentially what Stacks is.

petvas
May 7, 2011, 11:47 PM
That's essentially what Stacks is.

Actually yes. :)

bedifferent
May 8, 2011, 01:33 AM
You have a perfect right to express your opinion. But you seem to represent yourself as the majority view. I would disagree with that.

And I've been using OS X since the original public beta also.

Which OS X public beta? Panther? Jaguar?

We are all entitled to convey our experiences, however I do speak for a good amount of the professionals who rely/have relied on Apple for our work, to make a living. If things keep heading in this direction, our tools for our trade are essentially gone and we will have to find a new way to make a living. It's not as simple as it may appear to the average consumer. :)

Cougarcat
May 8, 2011, 02:04 AM
Which OS X public beta? Panther? Jaguar?



No, there was a public beta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Public_Beta) anyone could buy for $30 before 10.0 came out.

bedifferent
May 8, 2011, 02:23 AM
No, there was a public beta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Public_Beta) anyone could buy for $30 before 10.0 came out.

Yeah, that was when OS X made its first debut. I still don't understand how this is relevant to the general discussion, but I'll go with it :)

GoKyu
May 8, 2011, 02:28 AM
* Mission Control: This one I like. It combines spaces and expose very nice.

* Saving the state of apps: It does take a while to get used to the fact that the state of all apps is always being saved on exit. I would prefer to have the option (without using the Alt key) to not save the state of an app by default. There are situations you don't want to have an app resume its state. Imagine showing a video to someone. You close quicktime and then after a while you need quicktime again. You open it and the video resumes...Not very good!


I really think they've destroyed the flexibility of Spaces in Lion, which is a big reason I may not upgrade for quite awhile. How is it better to be forced to go sequentially through all of your spaces (I have 9, some others may go up to the full 16), rather than to have the great random access by hitting F8 (a.k.a. my click wheel button) to zoom out to see exactly which space I want to go to next...

I'm liking the idea of saving the app's state, but you make a really good point - Will it automatically try to reload the last video in QT Player or VLC? That would be a real pain...unless they allow you to make exceptions for which apps you *don't* want to save state...

bcaslis
May 8, 2011, 12:50 PM
Which OS X public beta? Panther? Jaguar?

We are all entitled to convey our experiences, however I do speak for a good amount of the professionals who rely/have relied on Apple for our work, to make a living...

The original public beta for 10.0. I simply mention to say I'm not one of your "newbies from the past three years". Actually I've been using Macs since 1986.

Sorry but I just don't accept your contention that you speak for a good amount of the professionals. That's a huge statement without any proof. Apple does consult with selected professionals on their needs. That's not to say they do everything they ask for but they do talk to them.

bedifferent
May 8, 2011, 01:09 PM
The original public beta for 10.0. I simply mention to say I'm not one of your "newbies from the past three years". Actually I've been using Macs since 1986.

Sorry but I just don't accept your contention that you speak for a good amount of the professionals. That's a huge statement without any proof. Apple does consult with selected professionals on their needs. That's not to say they do everything they ask for but they do talk to them.

Thanks for the clarification, and I meant no disrespect by insinuating something you are not.

As for your reaction to my comments, we are all entitled to our own opinions and experiences. My good friend Corey works at Pixar and used to work almost directly under Jobs, and my friend Jackee (she is a documentary film maker from LA) recently moved to Cupertino as a design consultant for the new Final Cut Pro (X). She and I used to discuss Apple's direction with regards to the Pro-market, me being the pessimist and she being the optimist. Having spoken with her w/o breaking her NDA, months working with the team she changed her stance. She stated that much of Apple's focus is on iOS as they have not revamped the Final Cut management in years and the engineers and designers do not work well together, and management is hardly present. She was underwhelmed with the results, and seemed rather frustrated that Apple wasn't devoting enough time and resources to the project while in team squabbling blocked some amazing advancements.

Yes, anecdotal, but never the less you have to admit given Apple's discontinuation of professional/business products such as Xserve, little Mac Pro advancements aside from Xeon updates, no Blu-Ray for HD movie editing, and a lack of a full display line forcing us to use non-Apple displays such as EIZO or NEC (requiring calibration steps that the previous ACD line did not) certainly point to a slow departure from the professional grade products that Apple was once synonymous for producing.

Blakeasd
May 8, 2011, 01:18 PM
We might see a revolutionary new feature at WWDC. I recall some Apple job openings for Mac OS X that had to do with the web and OS X. It was not the App Store, as Apple would already have employees who could port it to the mac. So I think that revolutionary new feature is still in the works.

bedifferent
May 8, 2011, 01:25 PM
We might see a revolutionary new feature at WWDC. I recall some Apple job openings for Mac OS X that had to do with the web and OS X. It was not the App Store, as Apple would already have employees who could port it to the mac. So I think that revolutionary new feature is still in the works.

That would be great, I'd like to see something promising :)

Lukeit
May 9, 2011, 02:21 AM
Using your thread title as a start, I'd rather say I AM impressed by Lion, but since last build in a very very bad way!
It seems Apple has worked backwards and has added instabilities and bugs that were not here in the very first build release.
Take Safari... now it barely usable: it crashes and closes down with a frequency I have NEVER experienced in any beta software before.
Preview is using LOADS of memory and it is sticky, sluggish and highly unreliable.
and these are just two simple examples.
I basically think Lion has got worse since its first build: why???

talmy
May 9, 2011, 10:14 AM
None of the releases have been particularly stable for me, but then I'd never expect that they would be. It runs well enough that I can tell 1) I don't like the new GUI features, 2) My own programs run just fine, and 3) Several commerical apps I use don't run.

petvas
May 9, 2011, 10:50 AM
None of the releases have been particularly stable for me, but then I'd never expect that they would be. It runs well enough that I can tell 1) I don't like the new GUI features, 2) My own programs run just fine, and 3) Several commerical apps I use don't run.

Since it is still a dev preview I dont expect that everything will run without issues. On the contrary.

If the rumors are true and Lion should be coming in June and judging by the quality of the dev previews, Apple has still a lot to do to make a stable OS. of course Apple could just have internal builds that are far more advanced in terms of features and stability, so we cannot really be sure.

Lukeit
May 9, 2011, 09:12 PM
None of the releases have been particularly stable for me, but then I'd never expect that they would be. It runs well enough that I can tell 1) I don't like the new GUI features, 2) My own programs run just fine, and 3) Several commerical apps I use don't run.

Of course nobody expect a beta build to be bug free, but at least not to get worse as time progress and buil number increases... many departments of Lion were better in the first and second update... then things went down the drain...
I really hope Apple can show some REAL improvements otherwise I'll keep flooding them with my bug reports !

baryon
May 10, 2011, 04:15 AM
That's essentially what Stacks is.

Yes but the problem with Stacks is that it reflect the exact folder structure of your Applications folder. If some of your Apps (such as Photoshop) reside in a folder within the Applications folder, it gets really annoying to have to click through all that.

You also can't rearrange icons in Stacks, and you can't remove ones you don't want.

Stacks is simply not that great for displaying your Apps, but Launchpad would be perfect if only it would be in a stack-style interface. Maybe Apple should allow "special stacks" that would deal with shortcuts just like Launchpad, in a simple interface.

The current implementation of aliases in Stacks is extremely buggy. I often click on an alias and it tells me the file can't be opened, because the .app extension still remains, yet it's not a .app but an alias. Then I have to go and get rid of the alias's extension, causing the icon to turn into a question mark as it has no extension. Then it works but there's no icon. How is that practical?

talmy
May 10, 2011, 09:03 AM
Solution to all but complete control of rearranging: Create a folder somewhere and put into it aliases of the applications (command option drag). You can create a folder hierarchy to organize the aliases. Then drag the folder to the dock. Now you have just the applications you want, in a potentially hierarchical organization, in a stack on the dock. (I've never seen a problem with aliases in stacks this way.)

Yes but the problem with Stacks is that it reflect the exact folder structure of your Applications folder. If some of your Apps (such as Photoshop) reside in a folder within the Applications folder, it gets really annoying to have to click through all that.

You also can't rearrange icons in Stacks, and you can't remove ones you don't want.

dethmaShine
May 10, 2011, 09:11 AM
Apart from Mission Control, the only annoyance are those people who jump to conclusions without knowing what the thing will actually be/how people are going to use it/finding a way to disregard all the efforts.

@OP: You are too blind to have not noticed anything impressive. Sorry.

baryon
May 10, 2011, 10:18 AM
Solution to all but complete control of rearranging: Create a folder somewhere and put into it aliases of the applications (command option drag). You can create a folder hierarchy to organize the aliases. Then drag the folder to the dock. Now you have just the applications you want, in a potentially hierarchical organization, in a stack on the dock. (I've never seen a problem with aliases in stacks this way.)

Okay, but that is not an official solution to App organization. It's just a workaround to getting your apps to appear conveniently. Sure, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not a very elegant and simple way to do things, and I'm sure Apple made Launchpad to fix that problem. However, Launchpad takes up the entire screen and breaks the user's workflow. I think they should have used the Stacks idea, and made it as simple to use as Launchpad.

petvas
May 10, 2011, 12:26 PM
Apart from Mission Control, the only annoyance are those people who jump to conclusions without knowing what the thing will actually be/how people are going to use it/finding a way to disregard all the efforts.

@OP: You are too blind to have not noticed anything impressive. Sorry.

I have been using Lion for a while and I don't understand why you are saying that. Could you please help me see what the impressive features are? I am not saying that Lion won't be better than Snow Leopard, I just do not see anything so impressive. When I first read about the new features I was impressed , but after using the actual OS I cannot say the same.

talmy
May 10, 2011, 12:58 PM
Okay, but that is not an official solution to App organization. It's just a workaround to getting your apps to appear conveniently. Sure, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not a very elegant and simple way to do things, and I'm sure Apple made Launchpad to fix that problem. However, Launchpad takes up the entire screen and breaks the user's workflow. I think they should have used the Stacks idea, and made it as simple to use as Launchpad.

I'd say that what I do is "official" in that it uses nothing other than what OS X provides -- folders, aliases, and Stacks. It may be a bit cumbersome to set up, but it does give a solution that works efficiently for launching within the Stacks feature.

We certainly agree that Launchpad is awful! In the Linux front, Ubuntu has come out with a new program launcher that is a lot like iOS and Launchpad and it is being poorly received as well! But both Lion and Ubuntu don't require their use.

Now if were only possible to revert back to the old Spaces and Expose behaviors.

Thunderbird
May 10, 2011, 11:54 PM
We might see a revolutionary new feature at WWDC. I recall some Apple job openings for Mac OS X that had to do with the web and OS X. It was not the App Store, as Apple would already have employees who could port it to the mac. So I think that revolutionary new feature is still in the works.

Was that the job opening where the ad said they were looking for people who want to create something that's never been done before? If so, I remember that.

Maybe it wasn't for Lion, and those people got hired into another department :)

mikekey
May 11, 2011, 10:02 PM
Yes, I'm new.

I just upgraded my 15 inch MacBook Pro to a 13inch MacBook Air. I personally feel lion is zipping a long even faster on the Air. It continuously hung up on my pro.

You know I just read thru this whole debate and everyone complaining about launch pad and no one even mentioned gestures.

You're missing the point. GESTURES, Apple doesn't give a rip about context menus and right clicking.

I normally use a Logitech MX performance mouse, but the launch pad is pretty quick when you start using gestures. I'd be it's quicker than spotlight.

I know, heresy right.

But for finger pinch brings up Launchpad.

Lets also not forget the Magic Trackpad, now being sold with iMacs, used to be an upgrade, now it's either or with the magic mouse.

Gestures, touch, that's the direction they are heading. You're not factoring it into your thinking. Does it suck for your current way of doing things, yes.

But I think down the road, we'll be using more and more gestures.

Although I will admit the gestures are a little more difficult on my Air vs my MacBook Pro.

Oh and btw, the guy talking about the displays. 100% dead on. I had my MacBook Pro docked in a Henge Dock 90% of the time and connected to a 30 inch Cinema Display I got off ebay. Worked beautifully for my graphic design work and my photography hobby.

I have a home office with a lot of windows, and glass displays are not appealing.

It seems as Apple used being trendy and hip to revitalize itself and now it's completely moved into the consumer market and away from those segments that originally supported it the most.

bedifferent
May 12, 2011, 12:51 PM
Yes, I'm new.
Oh and btw, the guy talking about the displays. 100% dead on. I had my MacBook Pro docked in a Henge Dock 90% of the time and connected to a 30 inch Cinema Display I got off ebay. Worked beautifully for my graphic design work and my photography hobby.

I have a home office with a lot of windows, and glass displays are not appealing.

It seems as Apple used being trendy and hip to revitalize itself and now it's completely moved into the consumer market and away from those segments that originally supported it the most.

Spot on. My issue(s) isn't/aren't so much w/ Lion (it's faster, smaller footprint and does have some better incorporated features) but w/ Apple's discontinuation of their GREAT hardware for professionals.

The display line being one. The LED LCD display is a great buy, esp for LED backlit panels. As a graphic and film designer/editor I loved the ACD CCFL LCD anti-glare line (had 2 x 23" ACD displays w/ my Power Mac G's then Mac Pro's). Both lasted 7 years! I debated the 24" LED LCD for glare issues, spent mo's researching and tried 2 24" Dell displays (horrible, dead pixels, uneven panels). Dell was GREAT at a full refund. I need two so EIZO's were out. bought the Apple 24" LED LCD and placed it next to one of my 23" CCFL LCD's and loved it. The anti-glare displays tend to diffuse pixels while the Apple display (it's not "glossy", just a glass front without anti-glare finish) allows for more color accuracy/editing.

I got another 24" when they went on sale as the 24" iMac was replaced w/ the 27" (Apple uses the same LED LCD panel in the larger iMac's which is why there is only 1 display now offered). The glare isn't an issue, but I got a hood (examples: Computer Monitor Hoods (http://www.photodon.com/c/Computer_Monitor_Hoods.html)) that almost all professionals use any ways.

Otherwise, agreed. The discontinuation of a dedicated display line, Xserve, expensive Mac Pro's (my old design/architecture firm used PowerMac's as they were affordable, but couldn't afford Mac Pro's due to the leap in price), etc. doesn't bode well for us (consumers and new-comers to Apple may not understand our stance).

Oh well, Apple is doing well and going after the larger consumer market. Some claim the professional market is smaller, sure, but when businesses buy in larger quantities (such as 5, 10, even 20 Mac's) it adds up, so quantity of purchases counters the smaller market. Using some of that $50 billion to develop more displays to sell with their Mac Mini's and Mac Pro's instead of 1 27" model with short cables (and an odd screen ratio) and not enough ports or an anti-glare option means people will either hesitate in buying a Mini or Pro as they don't have a display or want to buy one elsewhere or perhaps will buy 'em elsewhere. Either way, it wouldn't be a fail but a win/win.

Muscle Master
Jun 7, 2011, 12:12 AM
what's going on with trim for SSD's

linuxcooldude
Jun 7, 2011, 12:30 AM
Because after a while all these threads become so big, it is difficult to keep track of what's going on. You don't have to read the thread if you don't want to.

It actually becomes harder to track all the different threads on exactly the same subject.

ErikGrim
Jun 7, 2011, 12:45 AM
Mikekey, you might be new. But you totally Get It™. Reading these forums you'd think the world was populated with neckbearded cave trolls sometimes.

.Joel
Jun 7, 2011, 02:46 AM
You know there's already a couple of threads discussing the features of Lion, why create another?

Simple, because he just wanted to:
1. Be the star of this one.
2. Create more confusion.


Because after a while all these threads become so big, it is difficult to keep track of what's going on.
<sarcasm>And having multiple threads on the same topic is just so much better because it reduces "cross posting" </sarcasm>


You don't have to read the thread if you don't want to.
Well clearly now if someone isn't that impressed and wants to share it they have to check this thread as well for relevance along with the other 3 or 4.

The real point here is that you felt compelled to make a new thread you were the starter of, opposed to just discuss in another thread. It's nothing more than an e-ego.

superAl1394
Jun 7, 2011, 02:51 AM
what's going on with trim for SSD's

I second this. What is going on? Is Apple going to extend TRIM support to all SSD's? It seems to me its really a trivial switch to flip. I am a hair trigger away from buying one for my Macbook.

Cougarcat
Jun 7, 2011, 02:54 AM
I second this. What is going on? Is Apple going to extend TRIM support to all SSD's? It seems to me its really a trivial switch to flip. I am a hair trigger away from buying one for my Macbook.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Trim support didn't really matter as long as you get a Sandforce drive, because the Sandforce firmware effectively accomplishes the same thing.

superAl1394
Jun 7, 2011, 02:56 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Trim support didn't really matter as long as you get a Sandforce drive, because the Sandforce firmware effectively accomplishes the same thing.

It does but it is not as efficient as OS level trim, resulting in premature drive death.

Edit: It's also worth noting that I work for Intel so I get hefty discounts on Intel products, so I'd prefer to stay in house.

Cougarcat
Jun 7, 2011, 03:02 AM
It does but it is not as efficient as OS level trim, resulting in premature drive death.

Edit: It's also worth noting that I work for Intel so I get hefty discounts on Intel products, so I'd prefer to stay in house.

Psh, I didn't think what you said was rude. If I had a cool SSD engineer as a roommate, I'd probably brag about him too. ;)

Diogones
Jun 7, 2011, 03:03 AM
Forgive me for my ignorance, but what is TRIM? I'm also interested in getting an SSD, and the idea of a premature drive death is disheartening!

superAl1394
Jun 7, 2011, 03:05 AM
@Cougar: Hah, ninja edit made your post make NO sense :P

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what is TRIM? I'm also interested in getting an SSD, and the idea of a premature drive death is disheartening!

Trim is a way for the OS to communicate with the SSD and tell it when it is no longer using sectors so that the SSD may more effectively schedule writes and deletes so that drive speed is maintained, fragmentation stays low, and writes are minimized.

maflynn
Jun 7, 2011, 05:45 AM
Trim is a way for the OS to communicate with the SSD and tell it when it is no longer using sectors so that the SSD may more effectively schedule writes and deletes so that drive speed is maintained, fragmentation stays low, and writes are minimized.
Actually I don't think it has anything to do with fragmentation or timing your writes.

Straight from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM)
"TRIM enables the SSD to handle garbage collection overhead, that would otherwise significantly slow down future write operations to the involved blocks, in advance."

MasterHowl
Jun 7, 2011, 06:15 AM
I totally agree. Launchpad should run in a window. Spotlight is still the way to go for power users. Of course,normal people will like the launchpad.

I consider myself to be a "normal user", and I use Spotlight like it's going out of fashion :) Don't think I'll use Lanuchpad... seems silly!

Mission control looks good though! It's going to take a while to get used to though. I just love Exposť!