Atlanta: Three killed in courthouse shooting [Archive]

Lyle

Mar 11, 2005, 11:41 AM

This is, as they say, a breaking story (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/11/atlanta.shooting/index.html), but it sounds like the defendant grabbed a gun from one of the deputies and shot the judge and several others in the courtroom. The suspect has fled the scene, carjacked at least one vehicle, and is still at large.

virividox

Mar 11, 2005, 11:51 AM

wow thats crazy :(

my sympathies to the families of the dead

Mr. Anderson

Mar 11, 2005, 12:09 PM

Things like these happening makes you wonder why they have guns in the court room to begin with.

I hope they catch him before he causes more harm - but from the story it seems like its mostly confusion right now.

Sad,

D

miloblithe

Mar 11, 2005, 12:12 PM

Pretty crazy. Kind of makes the Russian system of putting the accused in cages make a little more sense. Or, on a less oppressive tack, makes you wonder about why they have guns in the courtroom.

I'm just amazed this could happen.

Lyle

Mar 11, 2005, 12:15 PM

I hope they catch him before he causes more harm - but from the story it seems like its mostly confusion right now.I thought about checking in with my brother in Atlanta (and will probably still do that, at lunch time) but I suppose the best way to track this at this point is still the online news sources.

Lord Blackadder

Mar 11, 2005, 12:20 PM

I hope that he puts up a fight when they find him and the SWAT guys put a full clip into him - the last thing we need is that guy back in a courtroom.

30 rounds of 9mm and this guy's life are cheaper than the cost of another trial and the likelyhood he'll kill again. I doubt he'll go quietly anyway.

Armed bailiffs or deputies should always keep their distance from the defendant in the courtroom to prevent the possibility of this happening.

wdlove

Mar 11, 2005, 05:04 PM

My prayers go out to the families and friends of the victims. Such a very sad incident. I also feel sorry for the deputy involved that lost his gun. These things happen in just a split second. :(

Lacero

Mar 11, 2005, 05:06 PM

Things like these happening makes you wonder why they have guns in the court room to begin with.

A stun gun for bailiffs would be more than enough protection in a court room. Or rubber bullets. A real gun is totally unnecessary.

~loserman~

Mar 12, 2005, 02:11 PM

dsharits

Mar 12, 2005, 03:04 PM

They got him. (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/12/atlanta.shooting/index.html)

wdlove

Mar 12, 2005, 04:19 PM

I was pleased to hear that he had been caught. Very sad to hear that one more life was lost. The lady at the apartment complex was very fortunate. Just think that he realized it was over and didn't want to die. Now he is away for safe keeping with the federal authorities,

dsharits

Mar 12, 2005, 04:20 PM

I doubt he'll be getting away again.

Wes

Mar 12, 2005, 05:32 PM

Now he can add murder to the list of his other crimes.

• Rape
• False imprisonment
• Aggravated sodomy
• Burglary
• Aggravated assault with intent to rape
• Possession of a firearm during commission of a felony

I don't think this man will be out of jail for a long while; well, I hope not.

realityisterror

Mar 12, 2005, 05:38 PM

Glad to know he's been caught. My sister goes to school just a few miles away from the courthouse (Georgia Tech), and my mom and I were less than 15 miles away from the apartment complex when he was captured.
Man... what sort of thing can drive a person to do that? The chances of getting away for long after doing something like that are pretty slim...

reality

combatcolin

Mar 13, 2005, 08:26 AM

Don't know about the States but in the UK all firearms have a strong reinforced cord that attachs to the users belt, dosn't stop someone grabing a gun but does stop them making off with it.

And yes, you do have to wonder why they need guns in the courtroom. :confused:

Anyone suspected of this sort of thing whould be shacked or cuffed.

wdlove

Mar 13, 2005, 03:34 PM

I'm sure that they will revisit the use of firearms in the court room. For the vast majority of criminal a show of force is needed. Essentially he overpowered female officer. This may have been a way for him to get his fifteen minutes of fame.

Lacero

Mar 13, 2005, 03:38 PM

A 210 lbs, 6'1" adult male overpowering a 51 year old, 5'0" female officer while alone. Who would have seen this coming? Obviously the whole procedure for detaining and transporting a suspect needs to be looked at and overhauled. Handcuffs or ankle shackles must be required for all violent offenders.

Mechcozmo

Mar 13, 2005, 04:27 PM

This may have been a way for him to get his fifteen minutes of fame.

Sure went well, didn't it? 15 minutes of fame, 150 years in jail....

realityisterror

Mar 13, 2005, 05:45 PM

I'm sure that they will revisit the use of firearms in the court room.

Why should they not have them? This type of thing doesn't happen very often, and if they rethink the need for firearms in the court room, there are many other places that definitely don't need firearms either.

School police officers who wander around throughout the day with guns on their belts could end up in the same situation. Any police officer on the streets or in a public place could have their gun stolen. Sure, the guns aren't necessary in many situations at all, but you never know when it'll need to be used.

reality

wdlove

Mar 13, 2005, 08:11 PM

Sure went well, didn't it? 15 minutes of fame, 150 years in jail....

Well he is still alive and will have many more court appearances. For some reason he decided that he wanted to live.

I was very surprised to learn that he wasn't handcuffed and shackled. At least that is the way I have seen them here in Massachusetts. Even with a 72 year old former priest.

clayj

Mar 13, 2005, 08:19 PM

WRT the issue of guns in courtrooms, at shopping malls, at schools, etc.: It's incidents like this that underscore the need for "smart" guns that can only be fired by the owner... the gun needs to be able to determine who's holding it and not fire if the wrong person has it. There are simple systems (such as a magnetic detector, similar to the keycards used to control access to buildings and parking garages) that could be used... for example, the gun owner would wear a ring on his shooting hand which contains embedded circuitry. Proximity to this circuitry would be required in order for the gun to discharge.

The alternative is to turn every courtroom, school, shopping mall, etc. into a fortress, access controlled through metal detectors and with all security armed with tasers, stun guns, and pepper spray.

Oh, and on a personal note: I think they shoulda shot this guy as soon as they caught him, white flag or no.

wdlove

Mar 14, 2005, 04:34 PM

I'm very touched by the story of Amy that was instrumental in his surrender. A very strong and brave young lady. Brian was in her apartment for about 7 hours. She read from the Bible to him. discussed that there must be more for him. That morning she made him pancakes.

Lacero

Mar 14, 2005, 05:05 PM

Apart from white collar criminals, most people are just starved for love and do not have faith in a higher being.

clayj

Mar 14, 2005, 05:26 PM

Apart from white collar criminals, most people are just starved for love and do not have faith in a higher being.The way you phrased that makes it sound like there are two types of people: white collar criminals, and people who are starved for love and don't have faith in a higher being. :)

Moof1904

Mar 14, 2005, 07:18 PM

Mechcozmo

Mar 14, 2005, 07:27 PM

The dumber the gun, the better. I would never trust my life to a "Smartgun."

Here's a rock. No moving parts!
;)

Smartguns are a good idea in theory, but in practice I have yet to see any actually work as advertised.

combatcolin

Mar 15, 2005, 05:39 AM

Americans and guns :confused:

The right to bear arms to protect yourself from the other guy with the right to bear arms. :confused:

Madness :eek:

Moof1904

Mar 15, 2005, 10:57 AM

Please don't confuse an argument for the right to bear arms with an argument in favor of murder or violent crime.

Punani

Mar 15, 2005, 12:15 PM

mactastic

Mar 15, 2005, 12:20 PM

Americans and guns :confused:

The right to bear arms to protect yourself from the other guy with the right to bear arms. :confused:

Madness :eek:

This is in no way a RKBA debate. The suspect grabbed a gun off a Sheriff's deputy, not from someone's unlocked storage area.

wdlove

Mar 15, 2005, 04:35 PM

While I mean no offense to Ashley Smith, the hostage who Brian Nichols held captive for hours...

I'm worried that her persistent media coverage is implying a made-for-TV movie in the coming months. I mean it is wonderful that she was able to reason and talk with her captor, but I just fear that she will become a pawn (or rather a willing pawn) in profit mongering.

Ashley was very brave and deserves praise. Her ordeal would make a good made for TV movie. Hopefully she will share in the profits, or at least get paid for her story. She already has a lawyer, so her interests are being looked after.

Lacero

Mar 15, 2005, 04:39 PM

Here's a little to-do list for the folks in Fulton County government, and other interested parties who don't wish to be murdered at work:

- Hire only men, preferably over 6'3" and 225 lbs. for public safety positions

- Pay them enough to make it worthwhile

- Train them properly

- Fire any public safety personnel who can't see their shoes while standing, or has sciatica from wearing a gun belt. While this is a rich Fulton Co. policing tradition, it should go the way of Vicki Lawrence.

- Make our justice system colorblind. Secure all persons accused of violent crimes, or with a history of violent crime, with leg and handcuffs at all times, regardless of racial, sexual, or religious background, and double those chains and put a hood on them if they come from a traditionally suspect group regardless of racial, sexual, or religious background.

- Hire judges who believe that criminals of all ages should be punished.

- Cut back on the parade of restrictions placed on people with Georgia CCW permits.

- Save another deputy and judge's life. This suspect should immediately be furnished with two bullets in the back of his head. Trials are benefits reserved for civilization. Send a message that we are not in Colombia (see also...District of)

If this list doesn't make sense to you, volunteer to be placed in a correctional facility for a period of 7 days, and then re-read the list.

jsw

Mar 15, 2005, 04:45 PM

Smartguns are a really, really, really bad idea. Smartguns would malfunction far more readly or be subject to jamming by an assailant.

The dumber the gun, the better. I would never trust my life to a "Smartgun."No, smart guns are a really, really, really good idea. There just hasn't been sufficient reason to develop good ones. The technology exists. Certainly, at least, the technology exists to keep someone from quickly firing a gun they've just removed from someone else.

combatcolin

Mar 16, 2005, 05:14 AM

This is in no way a RKBA debate. The suspect grabbed a gun off a Sheriff's deputy, not from someone's unlocked storage area.

Don't know what RKBA is.

But it i do know that police in America do need guns to protect themselves from the public's right to bear arms.

And as the war of independance was pretty conclusive in its results, and Native Indians don't really threaten the expansion of the railroads....

...then why do Americans still need guns?

Now as a Brit who isn't even allowed to look at a firearm let alone fire one, i would like to one day fire one, but the concept of a handgun (and in rare cases ASSAULT RIFLES????!!!!????) in every other house?

Scary.

jiv3turkey748

Mar 24, 2005, 12:17 AM

i live in atlanta right down the street from where he was caught since its happened thats like all theyve been talking about on the news

Lyle

Mar 24, 2005, 10:02 AM

i live in atlanta right down the street from where he was caught since its happened thats like all theyve been talking about on the newsYes, I think there was maybe just a little bit of national media coverage of it as well.

Lyle

Mar 24, 2005, 10:04 AM

While I mean no offense to Ashley Smith, the hostage who Brian Nichols held captive for hours...

I'm worried that her persistent media coverage is implying a made-for-TV movie in the coming months. I mean it is wonderful that she was able to reason and talk with her captor, but I just fear that she will become a pawn (or rather a willing pawn) in profit mongering.I also mean no offense to her, but I'm not going to gasp in surprise when, a few months down the line here, Playboy announces a pictorial featuring Ashley Smith. That seems to be the usual pattern for these kinds of stories.

Lyle

Mar 24, 2005, 10:09 AM

Don't know what RKBA is.RKBA = Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

wdlove

Mar 24, 2005, 05:21 PM

I also mean no offense to her, but I'm not going to gasp in surprise when, a few months down the line here, Playboy announces a pictorial featuring Ashley Smith. That seems to be the usual pattern for these kinds of stories.

From what I have heard of Ashley, a pictorial review of her is very unlikely. It would make me very sad if she did.

Lacero

Mar 24, 2005, 05:39 PM

Well it would make for a great movie, a lot better than the offal "Hostage" with Bruce Willis.

wdlove

Mar 24, 2005, 05:53 PM

Well it would make for a great movie, a lot better than the offal "Hostage" with Bruce Willis.

Yes, I can definitely see a made for TV movie made out of her story. She definitely deserves to be paid for her story. Hopefully she will get the reward money also, being a widowed single money it is definitely needed and deserved.

Lacero

Mar 24, 2005, 07:26 PM

I'd love if my life were made into a movie. Sort of like Erin Brockovich and Jerry McGuire. But I don't think anybody would pay full admission price to see my life on the big screen. OR would they???

wdlove

Mar 24, 2005, 08:58 PM

I'd love if my life were made into a movie. Sort of like Erin Brockovich and Jerry McGuire. But I don't think anybody would pay full admission price to see my life on the big screen. OR would they???

I'm willing to listen to your story. What unusual thing has happened in your life that would make a good made for TV movie?

combatcolin

Mar 25, 2005, 04:33 AM

And this months mass shooting is at a Minesota school by a disaffected young kid with access to firearms.

Wonder what April will be?

pianojoe

Mar 25, 2005, 05:25 PM

I don't know how to operate a gun. I fewer people had that knowledge... oh, never mind.

mactastic

Mar 25, 2005, 05:41 PM

I don't know how to operate a gun. I fewer people had that knowledge... oh, never mind.

I could show you in under 30 seconds. It's not hard.

wdlove

Mar 25, 2005, 07:03 PM

I could show you in under 30 seconds. It's not hard.

I know from personal experience that is isn't all that easy to shoot a gun. For safety the shot needs to be accurate. The gun also needs to be cleaned properly for safe use.

Lacero

Mar 25, 2005, 07:05 PM

I shot with a high powered rifle before. It was in some kids backyard. The kid was wearing a white shirt. I thought about shooting him because I would have loved to see the blood stain such a nice bright, white shirt. But I was sane, so my conscience told me not to shoot him, but seriously, I really wanted to.

mactastic

Mar 26, 2005, 11:19 AM

I know from personal experience that is isn't all that easy to shoot a gun.

And I know from experience that it's pretty easy to show someone how to shoot a properly cared for firearm.

For safety the shot needs to be accurate.

Saftey for whom? The shooter (particularly one who doesn't care about his/her own life) is pretty safe by virtue of being behind the firearm. Sure it's less safe for those around if the shooter isn't accurate, but do you really think this kid was in any danger because he wasn't aiming all that well?

The gun also needs to be cleaned properly for safe use.

I would assume that the gun was cared for by the kid's grandfather.

Look, it goes like this: Here's the clip, here's the slide and slide release. Here's the saftey. Here's the trigger, there's the target.

I didn't say I could teach proper shooting technique in 30 seconds, just that I could show someone how to squeeze off a few in that time frame. I don't see how you can doubt that.

wdlove

Mar 26, 2005, 04:38 PM

I didn't say I could teach proper shooting technique in 30 seconds, just that I could show someone how to squeeze off a few in that time frame. I don't see how you can doubt that.

Now with that explanation, I have no doubt of your ability. Definitely not a shooter that I would want to be any where near.