View Full Version : Steve's lost the plot.
Jul 9, 2001, 09:16 PM
I don't think Apple knows who their market is.
The cube. Puhlease. Who the hell can afford the cube AND the LCD screen to make it look decent. Only Steve and his ilk, it turns out.
Now the iMac will replace the cube? On the chopping board maybe...
I fear all of this talk of an LCD iMac may be true, and that will suck. Not for me, you understand. I can afford one. But my mates can't. Even the current iMac is out of range for them (and comparatively underpowered at that...). I repeat - who the hell can afford an LCD? I love Macs but I point my mates to PC's to get their money's worth. Are schools going to buy LCDs?
Here's an idea. Go ahead and release the new iMac, but also re-release the midrange iMac in clear plastic and call it "iMac Classic". Just the one model. Sell it for $US550 or something (I'm in Oz - I haven't done the sums - $A1100). Sure it would affect sales of the new iMac, but I'm guessing the new iMac will be more expensive, underpowered (again) and go down like a lead balloon anyway (after cube-like hype and initial sales, of course).
It WILL be very pretty, I'm sure.
But as the owner of a blue&white G3 tower who's matching 17" monitor has just gone Ka-Boom after eighteen months (apparently never to be repaired) I can assure you that this little bunny has seen the light in relation to style over substance. I paid more for a "look" rather than getting the cheaper (beige) monitor. I painted my room to match that damn monitor (and no, Apple going to clear plastics wasn't inspiration. They're addressing this very problem. At least beige bits are replacable!).
Will Apple save the old iMac and put power in the hands of the underprivileged, or pursue aesthetics at the cost of marketshare? Decisions, decisions....
Either way, I've got a G3 tower for sale (no monitor) and I'm in the market for a new computer. Beige sounds nice...
..... Oh, hang on.... Schools WON'T pay more for LCDs. That means the new iMac MUST be at the same price point. If so, please ignore previous rant :) Hello Mudda! Hello Fadda! :)
(A cheaper iMac would still be nice though).
Jul 9, 2001, 10:13 PM
I agree! Or bring the LCD iMac for the same price! It can be done!!! Remember... Apple prices are probably a 150% mark-up of what they really costs Apple.....
Good point on Education! Apple needs lower prices for Education to get more schools buying Macs and upgrading to OS X!
Jul 9, 2001, 10:25 PM
I like the idea for a iMac classic. That would be nice. Apple does have pretty good deals for educators, but a little less wouldn't hurt. If you compare a windows box, it costs the same as an imac , but the imac has firewire, a bigger hard disk, cd-rw, and faster processor, and it usually costs less with the educators discount. The big reason admin's of windows networks dont liek to switch is because 1)they don't know anything but windows 2)they have no idea that you CAN have a cross-platform network 3)they think that the gateway boxes they're getting are less expensive and more powerful than an iMac or 4)they cant get over Novell networking software, which has no security features whatsoever. All of their complicated wireing and security problems could be solved by using Apple's BUILT IN security features. They work. They work so well, the US government uses them.
Jul 13, 2001, 07:27 PM
I dont think apple will have a LCD iMac anyway. They need to have a low end line and the iMac is it. If they do put in an LCD, then its going to be for the same price. Apple is just starting to take hold of their lost Education sales... they wont mess that up now by selling only high-end unreachabal computers. The low-end iMac is what put Apple back in to the running. Steve knows it.
Jul 18, 2001, 03:14 AM
I work directly with schools and their primary problem is that all their grants are run out and the admins know jack ***** about mac. The people at Treca (the computer people for our schools) know some about macs, but I am 17 and have outdone my HS computer programming teacher using Windows and he wouldn't recomend a Mac just because he had bad experiences a long time ago. Anyway..the two key points are that the schools are out of grant funds and that none of the admins would recomend Macs to school officials because they were around when Mac made a few blunders and havn't touched one since.
Jul 18, 2001, 08:42 PM
I was right. Steve's lost the plot.
Can someone tell me who Apple's target demographic are?
Do they know?
I really don't think so.
I've been sitting in this liferaft waiting for our captain to get us to shore.
Now I'm swimming for it.
Jul 19, 2001, 11:25 AM
thin ice-you are confusing to me. what is your beef? all you keep saying tells me that you are a poor bastard who shouldn't be allowed the luxury of a mac!!!!!!
Jul 19, 2001, 03:26 PM
Well i know i am a poor bastard, but i do use a mac.
then again its an imac.
and i am building a £300 amd duron pc.
so i am a tramp
wow, thats a dent in my confidence
Jul 19, 2001, 06:22 PM
what is the relevence??
Jul 22, 2001, 01:33 PM
Apple just doesn't have the market that PCs do....You can't just build a costom Mac, but a PC, you can. I am just waiting for windows to screw themselves over so Mac can maybe expand its influence.
Jul 23, 2001, 09:20 AM
i'm waiting for Windows XP-it's going to bomb with any computer user who knows what they are doing-it's THE most simplified operating system-everyone will get bored with it.
i'm also waiting for gates to grow a brain.
Jul 23, 2001, 02:22 PM
Listen, there is no way that Windows XP is going to be better than X. Yes X still has bugs in it but thats what the first version is there for. TO SORT OUT THE BUGS!!! And Jobs hasn't lost any sight of who is public is. Come on. Yes, Macs may be more expensive but they are better built and yes there have been botched batches of iMacs etc. but in the larger view of things they are VERY VERY well built. Don't you all remeber the iBook duribiltiy test???!!!?! It sustained being drop and having very very heavy wieghts being put on top of it. The $h!!ty pcs broke once they hit the ground. Come on people!! And in the past there have been retailers who have customized Macs. And you can customize your Mac at the Apple store. Choose what speed you want, what harddrive, how much ram... Unless your those I WANT IT NOW!!!!! people who go out to $k@nkUSA and buy your Mac...
Jul 23, 2001, 02:41 PM
I dont know wot the relevance of my last post woz, i suppose it says that poor dudes have macs too..... whether they deserve it or not is another thing.
Anyway, what i want to know is a friend says XP is going to be sum 64bit arse, is that true? and if it is does it mean that it is more powerful than OSX?
Jul 23, 2001, 05:21 PM
when i said windows xp will bomb-i mean that it will explode, crash, burn, take microsoft down the drain....etc
another words, it will suck so bad that everyone will switch to os x, at least ideally they would.....
Jul 24, 2001, 01:25 PM
I think Gallifrey misunderstood slightly. Yeah XP will have lots of holes in it. Tech TV "The Screensavers" said that Windows XP has so many holes in it that putting it on a DSL or Cable Modem anyone can hack into it. Very easily hackable. It won't only be easy to use, but it won't be able to do much. At ITT they told me that once you buy Windows XP you have to get all new peripherals "not drivers, but new hardware." Then you can only hook up several. If you want more peripherals you'll have to buy the more expensive version of XP. How ****** is that?! Very in my opinion. I'm just glad I'm not working on the tech support team for XP. When I worked for Apple people were just upset about no serial or ADB ports on their G3's and G4s and having to buy new USB. But a whole different system where nothing works?! **** that.
Jul 25, 2001, 02:29 AM
Looking at the Macworld show from my personal needs, I am not nearly as dissappointed as some, here's why: I DON"T NEED AN iMAC! Flat screen or otherwise, I don't need an Apple version of the Palm pilot, I don't even need OSX. What I do need is faster cheaper towers that will run graphics and video programs. Apple delivered. Sure I'd be happy to see those other products, but give Steve a few months and you'll probably see them and maybe even more.
Right now there is nothing on the PC side that will even come close to doing what I need for $2500. Before Final Cut Pro, you had to spend about $30,000 for a basic NLE system now you can turn the key for a much more feature packed system for under $10,000 that can also do real DVD authoring for another $1000, and already has all you need to do good motion graphics, print graphics and web design...and get this, all of it is easily and happily compatible!
Steve might not be giving all the "Gee look at that" announcements of new designs, but the improvements in the G4's were welcome...now if only we can get a G5...
Jul 25, 2001, 09:50 AM
I don't know absolutely if Apple has a well defined target market, although I'd have to say they do. That said, see my signature. I've used it for several years.
The towers are really beyond the amount of money I'd like to pay, but the iMac just doesn't fit my needs. Because I must keep a computer longer than most people seem to, I need the ability to upgrade.
A monitor-less iMac with just one PCI slot would more than meet my needs. If priced competively, I could buy a computer more often to stay current.
As it is, I've just about saved enough to buy a low end tower, with which I will be able to upgrade the processer and use,hopefully, for 4-5 years. What I've been doing is putting $5-$10/week away until I have enough to get a tower.
I will stay with Apple though, it's all I've worked on and I do not wish to learn a new operating system that from what I've seen isn't as good as Apple's.
Jul 27, 2001, 05:04 AM
alrighty, trying to sum up everything from these posts it interesting...and i apologize now for spelling errors....
anywho, as for the plot, Jobs is playing to the world. if you listned to most of his speaches lately, they're not targeting any one major area. in the US, it's mainly as a family computer now. look at iMovie 2 for crying out loud.
now, iMac's with an LCD...good idea i think. i have an iMac, and it's Rev A too. had it sence the week it came out. It's now a G4 with a VooDoo2 in it. And it runs OS X nicely. owever, a new monitor would be nice. as for the LCD part, the main reasons it seems they're not there isn't the price, put the structure. kevlar was chosen because of it's ability to withstand just about everything, including heat...a true LCD is doubted by most people i talk to. new tech is comming out that's better.
as for the sacademic arguments, well, that depend on the school. my newspaper department has 3 G4's and 3 iBooks. so, i won't tough that.
as for XP, oy, it sucks. i have the eval, and just, oy. security holes can be patched, but i crash the OS everytime it boots.
well, if anyone has questions, e-mail me : firstname.lastname@example.org
Aug 6, 2001, 03:56 PM
Steve has the plot. The interim CEO's didn't bother reading it but wrote whole new movies based on marketshare analysis and personal theorems about an industry none of them had background in. I believe that if any of those twits had any clue what was going on we'd be four years ahead of where we are.At least. There does seem to be a grand scheme at work here that we are just beginning to see.......
In terms of costs: Apple only makes a 10% proffit. Trust me on this one.
Realize also that wintel boxes are basically like vacuum tube tech was when this all started: Sickeningly common and only inexpensive because of volume. VHS tapes are the same way: Sony went into serious debt to sell VHS to the world BELOW cost for the first few years to blow away beta.
Don't buy an airship just because Arplaines havent taken off yet. The next Pentium is more like a G4 so we can assume that soon it'll all be RISC at whichpoint we can see the point to OSX.......It'll run on ANYTHING if the chips come together.
I believe the plot was written into the business plan and/or mission statement and is only intelligeable to those who know what they're looking at. Apple doesn't have one target audience but four as stated in Steve's first keynote after returning. The pricepoint will come down as possible with each rev. Don't expect Ferrari's to be priced with Yugo's though.