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Nova77
May 12, 2011, 08:29 PM
Hi, I got a G4 MDD 867! Was quite cheap, but I'm looking forward to upgrade it. I want to turn this into the fastest OS 9 bootable machine ever.
If you've got some insane (or reasonnable) ideas about how to get the fastest OS 9 machine, feel free to tell me!

What I want to put in....
- Dual 1.42 processor + copper heatsink (which I got!)
- 2 GB RAM
- Put in good DVD drive
- Add SATA card (or fast SCSI? ...)
- Put in some fast hard drives, and maybe even a small SATA SSD for system boot
- Install Geforce4 Ti 4600 128 mb AGP video card (last one for OS 9, unless you got a better idea)

What to do....
- Overclock bus speed from 133 mhz to 167 mhz
- Install processor upgrade (any1 can give me tips with this??)
- (optionnal) Overclock dual 1.42 processor?? any1 has experience with that? I'd overclock it as long as I can find a way to keep it cool... I want cpu to last long

Any1 can help me?



reddrag0n
May 12, 2011, 08:42 PM
Well, if anyone wants info, I have an MDD also that has been modded to the nuts.

The machine is a SP 1.25 GHz model so it already runs at 167 MHz FSB. So no mod needed there.

As for SATA, I have this card (http://sonnettech.com/product/tempo_serial_ata.html) installed which is an identical clone of this card (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1s2/). I have 2 drives running off of it (a 300 GB and a 500 GB) and it is bootable off of the 300.

The cpu I have is the original, but thanks to these boys (http://aquamac.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=767) I was able to overclock it to 1.42 GHz.

The internal fans I have swapped out for better and quieter fans. These are the fans I used, but others may be better for the situation...
PSU Fans... (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX2843%28ME%29.aspx)
Internal 120 mm fan... (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX19092%28ME%29.aspx)
DVD fan... (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX1046%28ME%29.aspx)

And the original PSU was the 360W, which I modded a custom 460W to sit inside the original casing. Images located here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1020076/jj/mddpsumod.html).

I also have a modded ATI 9600 video card in my comp too.
All in all, it's a great system, but for my needs, it's too slow hence why i am rebuilding a G5 for it's everyday use.

Nova77
May 12, 2011, 08:52 PM
As for SATA, I have this card (http://sonnettech.com/product/tempo_serial_ata.html) installed which is an identical clone of this card (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1s2/). I have 2 drives running off of it (a 300 GB and a 500 GB) and it is bootable off of the 300.


What are your thoughts on SATA hardware RAID? Any cards for this btw? Also, is there any 4 internal bootable SATA card out there? Thanks.

reddrag0n
May 12, 2011, 09:07 PM
Hi, I got a G4 MDD 867! Was quite cheap, but I'm looking forward to upgrade it. I want to turn this into the fastest OS 9 bootable machine ever.
If you've got some insane (or reasonnable) ideas about how to get the fastest OS 9 machine, feel free to tell me!

What I want to put in....
- Dual 1.42 processor + copper heatsink (which I got!)
- 2 GB RAM
- Put in good DVD drive
- Add SATA card (or fast SCSI? ...)
- Put in some fast hard drives, and maybe even a small SATA SSD for system boot
- Install Geforce4 Ti 4600 128 mb AGP video card (last one for OS 9, unless you got a better idea)

What to do....
- Overclock bus speed from 133 mhz to 167 mhz
- Install processor upgrade (any1 can give me tips with this??)
- (optionnal) Overclock dual 1.42 processor?? any1 has experience with that? I'd overclock it as long as I can find a way to keep it cool... I want cpu to last long

Any1 can help me?

FSB mod the info is located here. (http://www.macbidouille.com/articles/89/page3)
Installing the MDD cpu and heatsink (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-Power-Mac-G4-MDD-CPU-Heatsink/1625/1)
As for the video card, from what i am reading, the Mac ATI 7000/7500, 8500/9000 and 9200 cards are full OS9 ready (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/compatibility).

As for the 4 port internal card, the only one that i know of that works is the Seritek 1V4 card (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/). As for Raid, other than the native OS X software raid, i am not sure.

Nova77
May 12, 2011, 09:24 PM
FSB mod the info is located here. (http://www.macbidouille.com/articles/89/page3)
Installing the MDD cpu and heatsink (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-Power-Mac-G4-MDD-CPU-Heatsink/1625/1)
As for the video card, from what i am reading, the Mac ATI 7000/7500, 8500/9000 and 9200 cards are full OS9 ready (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/compatibility).

As for the 4 port internal card, the only one that i know of that works is the Seritek 1V4 card (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/). As for Raid, other than the native OS X software raid, i am not sure.

Thanks for all the infos
Might stick to that SATA card if I don't go with RAID 0
As for the graphic card, ATI radeon 9200 is good, but the Geforce4 Ti 4600 is better.
ATI 9200 PCI for OS 9, coupled with a better AGP for OS X would be an option though... but people seems to have a hard time getting the ATI 9200 PCI edition to work under OS 9... reviews are pretty bad...

You posted fans in your other post... Do you know a good cooling mod without losing PCI slot or hdd bay?

reddrag0n
May 12, 2011, 09:27 PM
I have a PCI slot fan hooked up to the DVD fan power so i don't hear it. It works well for my needs, but yours might be different. Also i have an extra 120 mm fan on the outside of my case helping exhaust the internal hot air from the cpu. if you want, i can try to take pics or something like that showing all i have done to my MDD

reddrag0n
May 12, 2011, 09:30 PM
oh, and with the aftermarket fans, you will have to do a mod on the connectors. Since Apple used different plugs for their Delta fans, you will need to mod the 3 pin plugs. Leave the RPM wire alone but swap the + and - wire and the fans will run in the MDD.

Nova77
May 12, 2011, 10:19 PM
I have a PCI slot fan hooked up to the DVD fan power so i don't hear it. It works well for my needs, but yours might be different. Also i have an extra 120 mm fan on the outside of my case helping exhaust the internal hot air from the cpu. if you want, i can try to take pics or something like that showing all i have done to my MDD

Yeah, some pics would be pretty cool! As for my needs, I'd like to cool my MDD without losing PCI slots because I want to keep them for audio hardware... So if you got in mind a good way to use fans to cool it down w/o losing expansion slots, please tell me! I've never installed fans before so I don't know where to put em (ok I'm logical lol but you know...)

Actually, I want an OS 9 beast, because I find it challenging to try whats never been done with such an old OS, and also because of old pro audio equipement, and I want to run classic games....

reddrag0n
May 12, 2011, 10:37 PM
Ok, in that case, we will lose the PCI slot fan. But we will put 1 to 2 fans for CPU exhaust. It's going to be difficult since the MDD's were the hottest macs out there heatwise.

As for pics, my MDD is in use right now so tearing it apart right now is not an option.

As for the OS, is your MDD the FW400 or FW800 model? Meaning do you have a Firewire 400 or 800 port? If you have a FW800 model G4, there is no way OS 9 will install on that machine. Only the FW400 models could run 9.

Nova77
May 12, 2011, 10:49 PM
Ok, in that case, we will lose the PCI slot fan. But we will put 1 to 2 fans for CPU exhaust. It's going to be difficult since the MDD's were the hottest macs out there heatwise.

As for pics, my MDD is in use right now so tearing it apart right now is not an option.

As for the OS, is your MDD the FW400 or FW800 model? Meaning do you have a Firewire 400 or 800 port? If you have a FW800 model G4, there is no way OS 9 will install on that machine. Only the FW400 models could run 9.

Yep I know... The 867 mhz model is FW 400, the 1.42 is FW 800. But if you put processor daughter card in FW 400 model, it will boot OS 9 (well it is supposed to, haven't tried yet... Some ppl say it worked for them... thermal grease is on its way... we will find out soon)

reddrag0n
May 12, 2011, 10:59 PM
Once you do the 133 to 167 mod, then you can use the DP 1.42.
If not then your CPU will be running at around 800 or 900 MHz.

Also upgrade the ram from PC-2100 to min PC-2700 or PC-3200. (PC-3200 will run at PC-2700 speeds)

The one link i sent is a rewrite from a different website (http://bitsandpieces.info/Multipliers.htm) and they safely overclocked the CPU to a DP 1.58 GHz.

But yes, the FW400 models all booted OS 9.

Here is where i got the discs (http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-system-922-1021-power-macintosh-g4-mirrored-drive-doors-mdd) so mine would boot for testing since my official OS 9.1 and 9.2.1 wouldn't boot the mac.

Nova77
May 13, 2011, 12:07 AM
Once you do the 133 to 167 mod, then you can use the DP 1.42.
If not then your CPU will be running at around 800 or 900 MHz.

Also upgrade the ram from PC-2100 to min PC-2700 or PC-3200. (PC-3200 will run at PC-2700 speeds)

The one link i sent is a rewrite from a different website (http://bitsandpieces.info/Multipliers.htm) and they safely overclocked the CPU to a DP 1.58 GHz.

But yes, the FW400 models all booted OS 9.

Here is where i got the discs (http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-system-922-1021-power-macintosh-g4-mirrored-drive-doors-mdd) so mine would boot for testing since my official OS 9.1 and 9.2.1 wouldn't boot the mac.

I've got the original restore CDs! Currently running OS 9.2 and OS 10.2 but I will upgrade the OS X to 10.5.8.

As for the CPU, I've read lots of stuff about it, but theres one thing I don't know... Do I have to mod the voltage? Or just swap daughter cards and boot?...

reddrag0n
May 13, 2011, 01:41 AM
I've got the original restore CDs! Currently running OS 9.2 and OS 10.2 but I will upgrade the OS X to 10.5.8.

As for the CPU, I've read lots of stuff about it, but theres one thing I don't know... Do I have to mod the voltage? Or just swap daughter cards and boot?...
can boot the original 867 without an issue. as for the 1.42, you need to mod the FSB on the motherboard in order to run that. then you need to get faster ram, or else the 1.42 and the modded mobo won't boot at all. once that is done, read this forum (http://aquamac.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=767) on modding the cpu speed and voltage. once that is done, then we can go onto the next steps.

Nova77
May 13, 2011, 02:40 AM
can boot the original 867 without an issue. as for the 1.42, you need to mod the FSB on the motherboard in order to run that. then you need to get faster ram, or else the 1.42 and the modded mobo won't boot at all. once that is done, read this forum (http://aquamac.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=767) on modding the cpu speed and voltage. once that is done, then we can go onto the next steps.

Thanks for help! Keep taking a look at this threat, as I will post work in progress. I'm now getting 2 gb PC2700 RAM and Arctic cooling MX-4 thermal grease.

reddrag0n
May 13, 2011, 04:34 AM
I would use PC-3200 because it's cheaper and more easily accessible.

Also, these configurations can be used...

4 - 512 MB sticks...
2 - 512 MB sticks and a 1 GB stick...
2 - 1 GB sticks...

Any of those combinations will work. just nothing more than 2 GB altold.

As for grease, i use Arctic Silver 5 paste and it does the job.

Nova77
May 13, 2011, 04:59 AM
I would use PC-3200 because it's cheaper and more easily accessible.

Also, these configurations can be used...

4 - 512 MB sticks...
2 - 512 MB sticks and a 1 GB stick...
2 - 1 GB sticks...

Any of those combinations will work. just nothing more than 2 GB altold.

As for grease, i use Arctic Silver 5 paste and it does the job.

PC2700 cost me $45 for 2 gb, I've not seen anything cheaper than that!

As for the grease, I've heard Arctic Silver is pretty classic, but the one I bought is better. It says there is no curing time and it lasts for 8 years. Plus, you get an extra couple of degrees cooler cpu. Yeah, it was more expensive but... $15 is not that much.

reddrag0n
May 13, 2011, 11:59 AM
Ok, you have the ram, good.

As for the thermal grease, well, whichever your preference is. Now it's time to do the solder mods to the logicboard.

Nova77
May 16, 2011, 11:09 PM
Ok, you have the ram, good.

As for the thermal grease, well, whichever your preference is. Now it's time to do the solder mods to the logicboard.

Actually, I don't have the ram, but I should receive it soon via mail. Same goes with thermal grease. Got it from ebay...

Btw I just missed a deal for a Geforce 4 Ti 4600 mac edition... Do you have any clue of where I could find another?? I don't want to pay $100-$140 for a card that is 9 years old! (yeah... most sellers are crazy)

reddrag0n
May 17, 2011, 05:41 AM
Follow this guide (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/asus-v8460) & NVFlash basics (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nvflash-basics)

video card one (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Asus-nVidia-GeForce4-TI4600-V8460-128mb-AGP-Video-Card-/140543523659?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item20b90bfb4b)

video card two (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ASUS-V8460-Ultra-128-MB-GeForce-Ti4600-AGP-VGC-/220784662255?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item3367ca96ef)

video card three (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ASUS-V8460ULTRA-TD-N-128M-a-nVidia-AGP-Card-V8460-/200492655887?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2eae4b250f)

Giuly
May 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
The fastest MacOS9 bootable machine would feature a Dual 1.8GHz CPU (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_mdx_duet.html), though. :)

But I really like this kind of projects.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9658/img0242t.jpg
:rolleyes:

jrko
May 17, 2011, 02:03 PM
Did you get a SATA Card?

I loaded up a dual 867 with 5 drives on SATA etc etc but wifey has vetoed the project as I have to many projects on the go sucking up too much cash

I have a 4 port SATA card on eBay and could ship internationally if you want
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290565916768&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_887wt_1141

666sheep
May 17, 2011, 02:12 PM
The fastest MacOS9 bootable machine would feature a Dual 1.8GHz CPU (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_mdx_duet.html), though. :)


Nope. Dual 1.42@1.67 GHz 7455 with 2MB L3 will eat it for lunch ;) Cooling is the issue, though :)

Nova77
May 17, 2011, 03:55 PM
Nope. Dual 1.42@1.67 GHz 7445 with 2MB L3 will eat it for lunch ;) Cooling is the issue, though :)

Cooling shouldnt be an issue since I got the copper heatsink ;) Add to that the better thermal grease (supposed to lower the temp a bit) and some fans, and it should be cool enough!


---->well... didn't read carefully enough... 1.42@1.67 would have heating issues yeah... Still, Dual 1.42 w/o overcloking will eat dual 1.8 for lunch because of the L3 cache... Thats what I've read.

Nova77
May 17, 2011, 03:58 PM
Follow this guide (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/asus-v8460) & NVFlash basics (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nvflash-basics)

video card one (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Asus-nVidia-GeForce4-TI4600-V8460-128mb-AGP-Video-Card-/140543523659?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item20b90bfb4b)

video card two (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ASUS-V8460-Ultra-128-MB-GeForce-Ti4600-AGP-VGC-/220784662255?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item3367ca96ef)

video card three (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ASUS-V8460ULTRA-TD-N-128M-a-nVidia-AGP-Card-V8460-/200492655887?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2eae4b250f)

thanks man that should help!

Nova77
May 17, 2011, 04:09 PM
thanks man that should help!

Oh well, I think I'm in trouble, the only PC I have to flash this card doesn't even have an AGP port ... what the hell??

reddrag0n
May 18, 2011, 01:36 AM
Did you get a SATA Card?

I loaded up a dual 867 with 5 drives on SATA etc etc but wifey has vetoed the project as I have to many projects on the go sucking up too much cash

I have a 4 port SATA card on eBay and could ship internationally if you want
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290565916768&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_887wt_1141I had the same card in my QS 2002. Ran 3 hard drives on the card. Also updated the firmware for that card too to make it work right in Leopard. But since i dismantled my QS, i sold the card.

Oh well, I think I'm in trouble, the only PC I have to flash this card doesn't even have an AGP port ... what the hell??Well, that is a bummer. Know anyone with a spare PC laying around? Just need a floppy port and an AGP slot to flash the cards.

666sheep
May 18, 2011, 11:28 AM
...or you can try Graphiccelerator under Mac OS X (via VNC or with ATI PCI card installed). Few Nvidia cards can be flashed with it, but TBH my attempt with Ti4400 failed :(
You can always buy cheap AGP equipped motherboard w/ CPU (I guess it can be done for few bucks nowadays - PII or PIII one will be enough).

Nova77
May 25, 2011, 12:39 PM
Hi guys, I've just got another logic board (167mhz, won't have to fix the bus speed). It's the 3rd version of the FW400 MDD. Memory and thermal grease on its way, should receive it in a few days.

Which bring me to this question: What do I have to do to fit in a dual 1.42 processor in my logic board. Do I have to up the voltage?

666sheep
May 25, 2011, 01:43 PM
Which bring me to this question: What do I have to do to fit in a dual 1.42 processor in my logic board. Do I have to up the voltage?

Replace logic board with this 167 MHz one, install 1.42 CPU with copper heatsink and new termal paste, put in new RAM and that's all.

Messing with CPU voltage is needed only if you play with OC'ing (in fact even not always) .

InuNacho
May 25, 2011, 07:19 PM
Can't wait to see how this will turn out. Whenever you get down be sure to get some pictures and screenshots!

Nova77
May 25, 2011, 07:56 PM
Replace logic board with this 167 MHz one, install 1.42 CPU with copper heatsink and new termal paste, put in new RAM and that's all.

Messing with CPU voltage is needed only if you play with OC'ing (in fact even not always) .

I'm new to overclocking... Is it possible to overclock//downclock on the fly? It would be cool to be able to get 1.67ghz and get it back to stock speed when temp is too hot (like in summer). I've heard of dip switches but I really don't know much about it.

Also, will overclocking reduce CPU's life IF its cooled proprely? Would it be the same as a non-overclocked CPU if temperature is exacly the same? (Lets pretend there would be some kickass cooling improvement in there...)

InuNacho
May 26, 2011, 12:44 AM
If you've got the space you could try sticking one of those PCI fans in.

666sheep
May 26, 2011, 02:05 AM
I'm new to overclocking... Is it possible to overclock//downclock on the fly? It would be cool to be able to get 1.67ghz and get it back to stock speed when temp is too hot (like in summer). I've heard of dip switches but I really don't know much about it.

Also, will overclocking reduce CPU's life IF its cooled proprely? Would it be the same as a non-overclocked CPU if temperature is exacly the same? (Lets pretend there would be some kickass cooling improvement in there...)

You can reach up to 1.58 GHz without extreme cooling solution. 1.67 requires significant voltage bump so heat increases too. Not only CPU die is affected but also L3 cache chips are.

There was software (by PowerLogix) to OC CPUs "on the fly" but it isn't compatible with all of 74xx chips and it's only for OS X up to 10.4.9 IIRC.

Dip switchining is possible but you have to be well skilled in soldering.

OC'ing surely will shorten CPU's lifespan, first from heat, second from bigger voltage. Proper cooling reduces this risk a bit, but it still remains. But this is the price of the game ;)

Nova77
May 26, 2011, 01:46 PM
Can't wait to see how this will turn out. Whenever you get down be sure to get some pictures and screenshots!

Of course I will! If it works (it should), I plan to upload a youtube video.

Nova77
May 27, 2011, 08:31 PM
Ok, I got my ram today. Now I have everything I need to swap CPUs. Hope this will work!

---> I noticed something strange... I've seen everywhere that Mac OS 9 will only see up to 1.5gb ram... is it false?? Look at that...

http://a1.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/139/4b967fd7c50f4fb8bb0921ff8443eec7/l.jpg

InuNacho
May 27, 2011, 11:00 PM
It's true OS 9 can only see 1.5 GB.

Dave H
May 28, 2011, 12:41 AM
The RAM beyond 1.5GB shows as being used by the system. It is actually not available (to the system or otherwise) under OS 9.

Nova77
May 28, 2011, 10:55 AM
The RAM beyond 1.5GB shows as being used by the system. It is actually not available (to the system or otherwise) under OS 9.

Ok thanks, thats a good explanation. Is there a way to trick the OS into using all the ram? Or a trick to force enable virtual memory? Just wondering...

Nova77
May 28, 2011, 06:22 PM
Ok....... tried the new (used) logic board with 1.42 ghz cpu, computer doesn't boot, fans blow air at full speed... any advice??

Dave H
May 28, 2011, 11:37 PM
Is there a way to trick the OS into using all the ram? Or a trick to force enable virtual memory? Just wondering...

OS 9 doesn't allow virtual memory if you have 1GB of RAM or more installed.
One possible exception might be using the "RAM Disk" feature in the memory control panel, to use up the "excess" amount.
AFAIK the RAM disk size in OS 9 is limited to 256MB.

666sheep
May 29, 2011, 01:20 AM
Ok....... tried the new (used) logic board with 1.42 ghz cpu, computer doesn't boot, fans blow air at full speed... any advice??

It doesn't recognize CPU, so fans are doing "starting jumbo jet" thing ;)

Possibilities: improperly seated CPU, bent pins in CPU/logic board socket, shot CPU, shot logic board.

Reseat CPU, check pins in socket. If it won't help, test CPU with your FSB 133 logic board. It will run @1.133 GHz (if it's OK OFC).

Are you 101% sure if 1.42 CPU and "new" aren't DOA? I presume you've bought them online. Look for physical damages too.

Nova77
May 29, 2011, 10:51 AM
It doesn't recognize CPU, so fans are doing "starting jumbo jet" thing ;)

Possibilities: improperly seated CPU, bent pins in CPU/logic board socket, shot CPU, shot logic board.

Reseat CPU, check pins in socket. If it won't help, test CPU with your FSB 133 logic board. It will run @1.133 GHz (if it's OK OFC).

Are you 101% sure if 1.42 CPU and "new" aren't DOA? I presume you've bought them online. Look for physical damages too.

I am 101% sure logic board is working, I tried it with other CPU and it works fine. I tried to reseat CPU and everything... If something is DOA, it's gotta be the 1.42 CPU.

Nova77
May 29, 2011, 10:53 AM
Any1 here have a FW400 MDD with a dual 1.42 fitted in??

666sheep
May 30, 2011, 03:12 AM
Any1 here have a FW400 MDD with a dual 1.42 fitted in??

I've had in the past, and raysfan81 (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=369023) has one too. It works without problems. I've tested it with modified (133@167) logic board and with real 167 one too, FW400 and FW800 - no difference.

Nova77
May 30, 2011, 10:56 AM
I've had in the past, and raysfan81 (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=369023) has one too. It works without problems. I've tested it with modified (133@167) logic board and with real 167 one too, FW400 and FW800 - no difference.

Thank you! Thats the clear answer I was looking for. Now I need to find another 1.42 card....

Nova77
May 30, 2011, 10:59 AM
I've had in the past, and raysfan81 (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=369023) has one too. It works without problems. I've tested it with modified (133@167) logic board and with real 167 one too, FW400 and FW800 - no difference.

Do you have any mods to do to make it work? Or just plug it in....

666sheep
May 30, 2011, 04:32 PM
Do you have any mods to do to make it work? Or just plug it in....

None. Just remove old CPU, put in new + new paste and run.

Try 1.42 with your 133 MHz logic board - if it won't work - DOA.

Nova77
May 31, 2011, 01:14 PM
None. Just remove old CPU, put in new + new paste and run.

Try 1.42 with your 133 MHz logic board - if it won't work - DOA.

Thanks, but now my new setup is 167 mhz logic board with copper heatsink on old 867 dual cpu (because the damn 1.42 didn't work). I can say even though this is supposed to be overclocked to 1ghz, this thing is the coldest G4 I've ever seen.

If you happen to have a spare 1.42 cpu.... I want it...

reddrag0n
May 31, 2011, 02:02 PM
I would say once my G5 is up and running, i have an OC'ed SP 1.25 to 1.42 MDD CPU that would be up for grabs. Since the single processor can't handle what i want to do for software. Everything i have on my MDD is slow. Hence why i got a G5 to begin with.

Nova77
Jun 1, 2011, 09:36 AM
I would say once my G5 is up and running, i have an OC'ed SP 1.25 to 1.42 MDD CPU that would be up for grabs. Since the single processor can't handle what i want to do for software. Everything i have on my MDD is slow. Hence why i got a G5 to begin with.

Well..thats why I want a dual one for speed! ;) Two 1.0 basically = my powerbook g4 1.67 ghz... Do the math, I bet a dual 1.42 @ 1.67 + a killer AGP card is better than some G5s.

reddrag0n
Jun 1, 2011, 12:06 PM
Here is some info that might be a good read...

MDD Dual 1.58 GHz (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/newsataqua-macaq.html)

Nova77
Jun 1, 2011, 05:23 PM
Here is some info that might be a good read...

MDD Dual 1.58 GHz (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/newsataqua-macaq.html)

Thanks

Nova77
Jun 1, 2011, 05:25 PM
Any1 knows how the sonnet dual 1.8 compares to the 1.42 or a 1.25 overclocked in terms of heat? Can you put the copper heatsink on the sonnet upgrade?

Nova77
Jun 4, 2011, 10:14 AM
All right, I found another dual 1.42 ghz cpu, I hope I receive it soon. The mega upgrade project continues!

VanneDC
Jun 4, 2011, 03:56 PM
nice project mate, may look at doing something similar.. cheers

Nova77
Jun 6, 2011, 06:16 PM
All right, just asking, what fans should I put in to make it the coolest possible, without using PCI exhaust fan and without modding the external case?

I don't care much about noise, as long as it isn't really worse than what I get from my current setup (stock fans, version B power supply).

666sheep
Jun 6, 2011, 11:48 PM
All right, just asking, what fans should I put in to make it the coolest possible, without using PCI exhaust fan and without modding the external case?


How it's possible to add fans in MDD without case surgery (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/aircoolingmddg4a.html)

and

Could be the fact that i swapped out all the fans for better and more quiet fans.

Here are the CFM and decibel ratings.
PSU - Minebea 2410ML-04W-B60 5300 RPM 25CFM @ 38dBA
New - Startech FAN6X25TX3H 5000 RPM 26.5 CFM @ 30 dBA

Door - Delta AFB0612HHB 4500 RPM 17.3 CFM @ 35dBA
New - Startech FAN6X1TX3 4000 RPM 15.9 CFM @ 28 dBA

CPU - Papst 4212H 3400 RPM 108CFM @ 49dBA
New - Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12SH 1900 RPM 110.31 CFM @ 37 dBA

Also, in order to get the fans to run in the MDD, i had to reverse the black and red wires on the fan connectors or they would't work.

Nova77
Jun 16, 2011, 12:27 PM
How it's possible to add fans in MDD without case surgery (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/aircoolingmddg4a.html)

and

Hmm... I've read the CPU fan in the MDD is 150 CFM. If I want to run it as cold as possible, wouldn't I need more CFM than the 100 CFM listed up?

666sheep
Jun 16, 2011, 01:07 PM
^^^Fan efficiency was model dependent. 867 DP, 1.25 single and 1.0 DP had PAPST or Delta 1212H (IIRC). 1.25 DP and 1.42 Duals were equipped with more efficent Delta 1212SHE (190 CFM). See link below:

http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdf

So reddrag0n's replacement was fine for his CPU.
CFM value is always listed for max rpm.

reddrag0n
Jun 17, 2011, 01:30 AM
This is for my fan...

The MDD case fan (the one that sits after the first set of hard drives) that blows onto the cpu is only a 108 CFM fan.

Here are the specs for the fan...

Papst 4212H 120 x 120 x 38 mm
12 V, ? Amp
108 CFM, 3400 RPM (max), 49 dBA
Thermally regulated PWM

So the 110 CFM fan i used is also only 2000 RPM, and it's not as loud and not as fast either. Hence why it's quieter.

reddrag0n
Jun 17, 2011, 01:38 AM
Any1 knows how the sonnet dual 1.8 compares to the 1.42 or a 1.25 overclocked in terms of heat? Can you put the copper heatsink on the sonnet upgrade?
The Sonnet would run cooler since it uses a Freescale 7447A chips vs the 7450 and 7455 chips.
The 1.42 and the OC'ed 1.25 would beat the 1.8 sonnet due the the fact that they have L3 cache.
The 1.8 only had 512 KB of L2 while the 1.42 and the 1.25 have 1 MB.

And no, the sonnet processor uses a custom heatsink to sit on their cpu.
Images can be seen here of the cpu in use. (http://www.spirica.jp/blog/archives/2007/03/powermacg4_mdd_dual_16ghz.html)

Nova77
Jun 19, 2011, 02:30 PM
^^^Fan efficiency was model dependent. 867 DP, 1.25 single and 1.0 DP had PAPST or Delta 1212H (IIRC). 1.25 DP and 1.42 Duals were equipped with more efficent Delta 1212SHE (190 CFM). See link below:

http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdf

So reddrag0n's replacement was fine for his CPU.
CFM value is always listed for max rpm.

If I get my dual 1.42 to work (still waiting for it... Canada Post is in lockout... damn it...) what fan will I need for proper cooling? What's the most powerful CPU fan that doesn't sound like a truck? Also, where to plug extra case fans (connectors...)?

Nova77
Jul 5, 2011, 05:53 PM
http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/135/8b4e1a3f80a547b8a53235c6057e3950/l.png

Finally got the other CPU and IT WORKS!!!
Now I have a fully functionnal dual boot 1.42 ghz G4 MDD.

Phase 1 completed....
Next step: SATA card & hard drives

Nova77
Jul 11, 2011, 09:34 AM
What SATA drives should I get? WD caviar black looks cool, but is it OS 9 bootable? Actually... can you install any OS on any hard drive (as long as my PCI SATA card is compatible)?

Thanks!!

reddrag0n
Jul 11, 2011, 12:18 PM
What SATA drives should I get? WD caviar black looks cool, but is it OS 9 bootable? Actually... can you install any OS on any hard drive (as long as my PCI SATA card is compatible)?

Thanks!!
From what i can tell, the Sonnet Tempo (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_serial_ata.html) is OS 9 bootable, and is bootable with any SATA drive attached. So i don't see an issue with it being right for you. As for hard drives, any SATA drive will do, but from personal experience, stay away from Seagate. Many firmware issues with those drives. Hitachi, Samsung, WD should be good drives. As for the WD color specs, blacks are regular desktop drives, blues are more for external cases and quiet and cool running, greens are for the ultimate in cool hard drives and not really good for desktop boot drives.

reddrag0n
Jul 11, 2011, 02:04 PM
Also these cards are Mac bootable too with OS X and OS 9.
FirmTek SeriTek 1VE2+2 (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/)
FirmTek SeriTek 1V4 (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/)
FirmTek SeriTek 1S2 (http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1s2/)
Completely self-contained booting functionality, no driver installation necessary
48-bit LBA support for drive sizes larger than 137GB
Perfect for upgrading and expanding legacy and G5 Macintosh computers
PCI-X 1.0a compliant 64-bit at 133/100/ 66MHz bus speeds
Backward compatible with standard 32/64-bit PCI at 33MHz and 66MHz bus speeds
Supports Mac OS 9, and OS X version 10.1.5 or later

At the same time the Sonnet's Tempo Serial ATA card is based on the same design and chipset as the Seritek 1S2

These cards will also work in the G3 B&W up to the PCI/PCI-X G5's

quasinormal
Jul 12, 2011, 03:26 AM
What I want to put in....
- Dual 1.42 processor + copper heatsink (which I got!)
- 2 GB RAM
- Put in good DVD drive
- Add SATA card (or fast SCSI? ...)
- Put in some fast hard drives, and maybe even a small SATA SSD for system boot
- Install Geforce4 Ti 4600 128 mb AGP video card (last one for OS 9, unless you got a better idea)

I had this exact stock machine with a 2 port sata card and a Asus 138G v11 pci wireless card. The 500GB PATA 7200 WD was very fast at booting.

Sorry to be a party pooper but in my opinion it was redundant with what is on offer today second hand. I sold it with a 23" ACD, ACD to DVI converter and a 17" ACD for $200. I replaced it with a 2006 Mac Pro with 2 x 2GHz that i bought for $700. It is much quieter and cooler, yet far faster than the powermac.

Nova77
Jul 13, 2011, 08:26 AM
I had this exact stock machine with a 2 port sata card and a Asus 138G v11 pci wireless card. The 500GB PATA 7200 WD was very fast at booting.

Sorry to be a party pooper but in my opinion it was redundant with what is on offer today second hand. I sold it with a 23" ACD, ACD to DVI converter and a 17" ACD for $200. I replaced it with a 2006 Mac Pro with 2 x 2GHz that i bought for $700. It is much quieter and cooler, yet far faster than the powermac.

We are talking about SATA not PATA... And by the way, Mac Pros are 1. more expensive 2. ugly looking 3. can't run classic apps (which ****s up the purpose of the best last dual bootable machine and 4. cool enough to make me want to buy one in the future and put it in a B&W G3 case cause I hate their looks lolll!

Back with the topic... Was considering WD caviar black. Any experience with these? I want high performance harddrive.

Nova77
Aug 6, 2011, 11:39 AM
Whats the fastest SATA drive possible while using SATA 1 interface??? I see many SATA 3 HDDs that can't go down to SATA 1 at all, and those that work will probably slow down their speed....

I'm looking for an hard drive that would pretty much max the 150 MB/sec, or well at least get a lil more than 100 MB/sec.

Thanks

Nova77
Aug 6, 2011, 11:44 AM
....Or should I buy a non-bootable SATA 2 card and put the fastest drives there and ONLY the system on another drive??? How much speed increase do you get from putting OS X on a fast hard drive?

One idea would be to put boot drive on SATA 1 and all apps and stuff on SATA 2. What do you think about it??

Also, one crazy idea would be to put boot drive on a small SATA SSD to max out the 150 MB/sec, and then put all other stuff on new velociraptor SATA 3 (can do SATA 2) drives for more safety.

I'm confused, need help, so feel free to comment and give some advice.
--------------------

By the way, got an 7800 GS OC on the way to put in my MDD ;)

reddrag0n
Aug 7, 2011, 12:03 PM
Sata III will run Sata I speeds via jumper settings (http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/search/1/a_id/5387#jumper). (at least the WD drives)
As for non bootable cards, i wouldn't recommend it, for it might not be seen in the mac to begin with. The Sonnet card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816122003) is relatively inexpensive and even though it's 2 ports, it will do the job. That's what i had in my MDD and yes, i now have it in my G5 for when i get a Sata DVD drive.
As for the SSD idea (http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category.aspx?Category=119&Tpk=ssd), unless you want to pay out of the 4$$ for one on those, i would just go the 7200 RPM WD Black (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=western+digital+black&x=0&y=0) route.

Nova77
Aug 7, 2011, 04:01 PM
Sata III will run Sata I speeds via jumper settings (http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/search/1/a_id/5387#jumper). (at least the WD drives)
As for non bootable cards, i wouldn't recommend it, for it might not be seen in the mac to begin with. The Sonnet card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816122003) is relatively inexpensive and even though it's 2 ports, it will do the job. That's what i had in my MDD and yes, i now have it in my G5 for when i get a Sata DVD drive.
As for the SSD idea (http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category.aspx?Category=119&Tpk=ssd), unless you want to pay out of the 4$$ for one on those, i would just go the 7200 RPM WD Black (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=western+digital+black&x=0&y=0) route.

How changing jumper setting will affect data transfer? Also, there are reports of some SATA 3 WD drives that won't work at SATA 1 speed, so how do I know if it works?

reddrag0n
Aug 8, 2011, 10:48 PM
By applying the jumpers to certain pins, it tells the micro controller to reduce it's speeds so it can be compatible with slower SATA controllers.

Nova77
Aug 9, 2011, 03:51 PM
By applying the jumpers to certain pins, it tells the micro controller to reduce it's speeds so it can be compatible with slower SATA controllers.

I know that. However, some Sata 3 drives still don't allow you to put it to SATA 1 settings, only sata 2 using jumpers.

Anyways, the question is, whats the best option for a speedy hdd on my G4? ...

An older Sata 1 drive that was fast as heck for that interface, or a newer Sata 2 or 3 that will be slower when set to sata 1 speeds?

Nova77
Aug 13, 2011, 08:22 PM
7800 GS in, CorePlayer benchmark with 720p HD video test file and 27 inch screen = 250% wow!!

150% with previous card, an ATI 9000 pro.

(CorePlayer in benchmark mode plays the video as fast as possible without lag, gives an average speed)


Thats really NICE!! ...even better when you know my harddrives are still really sucky...