AOL Eavesdrops, Grants Itself Permission To Steal Your AIM C...

[MacBytes]

Category: 3rd Party Software
Link: AOL Eavesdrops, Grants Itself Permission To Steal Your AIM Conversations (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050313213539)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

[Nermal]

Does anyone know whether this applies to iChat? It hasn't presented any new terms of service to me, but then again I might've chosen something saying I automatically agree by signing in.

[varmit]

Does anyone know whether this applies to iChat? It hasn't presented any new terms of service to me, but then again I might've chosen something saying I automatically agree by signing in.Anything that passes on the AIM servers they can do what they wish. So it means any chat client is affected and they don't need to notify you what so ever.

[jlewis2k1]

well if i assume this correctly, if you are logging onto one of aol's servers to use the aim service then this will apply regardless of the application you use. its all server side logging so you are basically screwed either way. but would this be basically a violation of your privacy?

[slooksterPSV]

Well, I've block http://*.aol.*/* so nothing with AOL as the mid-point can be accessed. I wonder what their servers are? - EDIT: Nope, I put it on my firewall block. I hate AOL, a bad bad service!

[Daveway]

I really don't use AOL for important convos, but this is REALLY bad. I would warn everyone.

BTW: when I signed onto AOL these provisions were not in the EULA. Do that give them the right to look at my messages?

[clayj]

I really don't use AOL for important convos, but this is REALLY bad. I would warn everyone.

BTW: when I signed onto AOL these provisions were not in the EULA. Do that give them the right to look at my messages?In case you hadn't noticed, pretty much ALL EULAs (AOL's, Microsoft's, Apple's, whoever) contain wording that allows them to change the terms of the EULA at any time, for any reason, and with no warning. THAT'S why I never read them... why memorize terms of use if they're infinitely malleable at the whim of the publisher?

Just to be clear, though: As much as I would like to assign nefarious intent to this revelation from AOL, my first guess would be that they are trying to (1) cover their ass in case anyone sues them over a leaked conversation and (2) appease the government, who no doubt have asked AOL to monitor conversations for such hotwords as might be used by terrorists. The mere fact that they've included this condition in their EULA pretty much gets them off the hook if they're ever sued.

[nagromme]

"You waive any right to privacy." License agreements are often pretty scary, but this something else!

So "AOL owns all right, title and interest" to anything "derived" from content you send through AIM, or "incorporating" your content. Including not just your conversations, I assume, but also your transmitted files, images, applications, avatars, etc.?

Not only can they spy on you without needing a reason or court permission, they also OWN your work, your thoughts, and your creations. As long as they "incorporate" them into something of AOL's creation.

And they can OR any other company they wish to share it with can do what they LIKE with it, anywhere, forever: "you grant AOL, its parent, affiliates, subsidiaries, assigns, agents and licensees the irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide right to reproduce, display, perform, distribute, adapt and promote this Content in any medium."

And they don't have to tell you, or ask your permission, and certainly not pay you. "You waive any right to inspect or approve uses of the Content or to be compensated for any such uses."

Best of all they don't even have to tell you that you AGREE to the above... :)

AND AIM@Work has the same terms... businesses PAY AOL so that AOL can read and use their private business communications!

I certainly won't be using iChat for anything but the most trivial of purposes. At least not until Tiger, when iChat supports services beyond AIM. I hope that works well.

(Wouldn't it be great if a significant number of people woke up and ditched AOL at last? Nah... that'd never happen!)

[Phat_Pat]

I Put this in my Profile ;)

[dotdotdot]

thats why i dont give anything out in AIM...

this was always there AIRC

[Nermal]

Anything that passes on the AIM servers they can do what they wish. So it means any chat client is affected and they don't need to notify you what so ever.

I see that the .Mac terms and conditions haven't changed for 2 years. I'm not sure that I've ever 'signed' an AIM or AOL agreement (I use a mac.com AIM address), so does AOL even have the right to snoop around without telling me?

[redAPPLE]

i am shocked. actually, i do not know, what to say about this. do they mean, if i send a picture through iChat, AOL can extract this picture and use it?

what about iSight conversations?

[narco]

i am shocked. actually, i do not know, what to say about this. do they mean, if i send a picture through iChat, AOL can extract this picture and use it?

what about iSight conversations?

Man, iSight conversations would be scary! So basically, they can watch the video any time they want -- and you know like, 50% of the people who own webcams use them for nudity.

What I'm worried about is the conversations. I discuss a lot of potential art projects with people via-iChat, but if I understand this correctly, they can take the ideas, sell them to studios and make money off my/someone else's idea. If that's correct, it totally blows.

Hopefully the bad PR will make AOL change their mind. I know a lot of people are sending links to this article like crazy.

Fishes,
narco.

[Lacero]

No big deal. The cellphone companies keep recorded phone messages plus all phonebook and data/photo entries in a large database. AOL has been keeping a record for years, they are just now telling you they are waiving your privacy.

[wrldwzrd89]

Why would you do this, AOL? Why? I already despise your "ISP" service. Now I have to warn AIM users as well? :(

[xsedrinam]

If that's correct, it totally blows.
Hopefully the bad PR will make AOL change their mind. I know a lot of people are sending links to this article like crazy.
Fishes,
narco.

People who have no shame seldom, if ever, change their mind, only their clothes. In the last 4+ times I've tried to contact and talk to a real live person with AOL, I've felt like I was talking to India On Line, or anything(one) other than "america"(n). We're definately canceling, but don't want to waste more time and US$ on international phone calls to do it; so, we're waiting 'til we're Stateside and able to waste a day on the phone, writing and sending whatever it takes. They've also assumed arbitrary authority to charge unsolicited fees (Advantage Traveler@US$79) and add those charges to credit cards. It's out of control and needs to be halted, post haste.
X

[varmit]

They don't read person to person, but they do when its a public forum like a chat room. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/tech/blog/3082956

[iJaz]

They don't read person to person, but they do when its a public forum like a chat room. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/tech/blog/3082956

phew... now me and my girl friend can continue to use our isights... ehm... :o

[JeDiBoYTJ]

all your base are belong to AOL


I read an article yesterday that it only applies to people who signed up for an AOL IM account since Feb 05...

[winwintoo]

If I was AOL, I would have done this in a heartbeat as soon as Apple won the right to see the names of the btards that leaked whatever it was.

AOL is just covering it's a$$ and probably every other hosting service is doing the same, most of them just aren't bothering to tell you about it.

m

[nagromme]

They don't read person to person, but they do when its a public forum like a chat room.

Nonetheless, the agreement says they have the right to your private data too, not just that which is shared in chat rooms. Whatever their "spokesman" may say they actually make a habit of... the wording is what's legal, and the wording doesn't specify chat rooms.

Perhaps some lawyer made just such a simple omission? If so, the terms should be updated to fix it.

[slooksterPSV]

If I was AOL, I would have done this in a heartbeat as soon as Apple won the right to see the names of the btards that leaked whatever it was.

AOL is just covering it's a$$ and probably every other hosting service is doing the same, most of them just aren't bothering to tell you about it.

m

I think I'll have to read through MSN Messenger's TOS and see what that has to say. I never use AIM anyways.

[PlaceofDis]

knowing this i might be switching to Yahoo or MSN, do they also have similar TOS??

[wrldwzrd89]

I use all three. I can't change to anything different.

[bigandy]

why are you getting so upset when the goverment can already LEGALLY monitor all communication in the US?

link (http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html)

talk about a violation of human rights. bye bye privacy.

although AOL cant really seem to get ANYTHING right, can they?

[~loserman~]

i am shocked. actually, i do not know, what to say about this. do they mean, if i send a picture through iChat, AOL can extract this picture and use it?

what about iSight conversations?

You bet. It means anything you do they own it and can use it.

[wrldwzrd89]

Apparently, AOL is trying to quash the firestorm (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/14/0138215&tid=158&tid=120&tid=215&tid=95&tid=17) (slashdot.org) they created with this announcement. See the links in the Slashdot article for more information.

[redAPPLE]

No big deal. The cellphone companies keep recorded phone messages plus all phonebook and data/photo entries in a large database. AOL has been keeping a record for years, they are just now telling you they are waiving your privacy.

wha? this isn't true, is it?

[redAPPLE]

Man, iSight conversations would be scary! So basically, they can watch the video any time they want -- and you know like, 50% of the people who own webcams use them for nudity.


this is off-topic, but... i use my isight to talk to clients and sometimes, i would really want the chance to protocol the meetings. is there a way to save the videos for review and protocol?

[wrldwzrd89]

AOL has revised its TOS to explicitly exclude member-to-member chats over AIM, ending the speculation.

[Snausage16]

can anyone hook me up or direct me to an aim profile spy? windows has that imchaos junk that lets aim users see who visits their profile or clicks a link in their profile, and how many times each person has visited.....

does aim for mac have anything like this?

i cant find a thing....and i want to know who the frick is looking at my aim profile and clicking my links

thanks ya'lls

-jSaus