PDA

View Full Version : Upgrade Guide: 733mhz G4 Quicksilver


neoelectronaut
Mar 14, 2005, 11:40 PM
A friend of mine is getting a 733mhz G4 Quicksilver Powermac off of a friend for about $500. What's the best video card, HD, CPU, RAM, etc. he can put into it? What would you do if you had one to upgrade? In other words, what's the best he can put into it without it being overkill? (A Radeon 9800 coupled with a 733mhz G4 would be wasted power, methinks, no?)

Suggestions?

Blue Velvet
Mar 15, 2005, 02:26 AM
Have a couple of these at work -- a recommended upgrade would be a PCI ATA card like the Sonnet Tempo to enable the use of hard-drives larger than 128gb. We also maxed the RAM to 1.5gb...

anotherjeff
Mar 15, 2005, 02:51 AM
What's the cash situation? You don't want to put in too much since an old machine, tinkered with and a bunch of new parts could be a sad situation.

Too late for a mac mini I guess.

OWC is always good for a boost in speed: http://eshop.macsales.com/

Upgrade ram.

Radeon 9000 or 9200, they have minor differences, I'm not sure if the 9200 would work w/ the current mobo. Either runs for about $125-130 and they are 128mb cards. Depends on your video needs.

You could upgrade to a dual 1.2ghz processor for about $500 or just up to 1.0ghz for about $190, you might want to just leave it alone.

Whatever size harddrive, at least 7200 rpm.

Esh
Mar 15, 2005, 12:14 PM
This is said friend...

I haven't bought it yet, but it's pretty much a sure thing. I like the upgradeability of it and I'm not too concerned about the footprint it has.

Anyway, I was definitely going to drop a CPU upgrade into it. I was looking at the Gigadesigns over at MacGuru but the OWC seem fine as well.

Maxing out the RAM is a definite and probably going to drop the Radeon 9800 Pro vid card into it as well as slapping in a Superdrive. Can anyone recommend a superdrive that's going to match the system aesthetically as well as give me good performance?

yellow
Mar 15, 2005, 12:19 PM
I have a (formerly 867MHz) Quicksilver '01 that I upgraded quite a bit.

Sonnet Tempo ATA card for faster/larger disks.
nVidia GeForce 4 Ti (128MB) video card.
1GB RAM
GigaDesigns Dual 1.33GHz CPU upgrade (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/GigaDesigns/M5D1213Q/)
And a Pioneer DVR-108

My only complaint..

An already loud computer is now 2x as loud.

Sweetfeld28
Mar 15, 2005, 12:28 PM
A Good Superdrive to get would be Pioneer's DVR-108 (Double Layer). You can find these pretty cheap compared to what i paid for my Single Layer DVR-107D. Plus they have good support, always updating the firmware. BTW, you might want to try and buy a branded drive that Apple has put in their own towers; i bought a Sony Superdrive awhile ago and had to send it back because the try suck out to far, and wouldn't let my G4 450 drive door close all the way.

A good place to look for one of these would have to be at newegg.com

Dont Hurt Me
Mar 15, 2005, 02:17 PM
A upgrade quicksilver can perform as well or better then a new iMac. The 9800 is the best bet for a long term solution. I wonder what my Quicksilver I with a 1.4 OWC upgrade/Geforce3/1gig ram/17"ADC CRT/Prospeakers/isub would be worth these days? I thought my Quicksilver wasnt to noisy until i got my Macmini now it seems loud. Quicksilver is a oldy but goody in my view. The only machine that can hang with a upgraded Quicksilver is the new Powermacs. Quicksilver can still be made to stomp all those other machines Apple sells 4 years later. :D Good choice.

Esh
Mar 15, 2005, 02:32 PM
Does anyone know if there's much difference between the Quicksilver and the Digital Audio? I'm not sure exactly which she has as I haven't seen it in person. I'm paying $550 for it, is that a good deal either way?

kingcrowing
Mar 15, 2005, 02:50 PM
theres some HUGE differences between the digital audio and the Quicksilver, biggest and most obvious is the case, the QS is silver (duh...) and has two kind of oval openings in the front, with doors, and has a very distinctive look, and by distinctive i mean sweet... whereas the DA is 'graphite' and has the same look as the old B&W the QS can also have faster processor upgrades etc, go to www.lowendmac.com and you can find out more of the differences

yellow
Mar 15, 2005, 02:52 PM
The digital audio is the model that directly proceeded the Quicksilver '01.


The L3 cache is 1MB in the DA, compared to 2MB in the QS.

Otherwise the only other difference seems to be the chasis is new-fangled on the QS.

Mord
Mar 15, 2005, 02:57 PM
you dont need a sata controller for big drives they work in quicksilvers fine (and can work in older macs with a software patch)

as for the max a dual 1.8GHz cpu three 400GB HD's a 9800 pro 2GB ram and a superdrive, that would be the max

aloofman
Mar 15, 2005, 02:58 PM
I have that exact machine at home. The only real upgrade I've done is to put in bigger hard drives and a Pioneer 108 DVD burner. Both were super easy. I've considered upgrading the video card, but I don't play many games on it, so I doubt there'd be much benefit. Currently have 768MB of RAM, but will probably put another 512 MB stick in there sometimes soon. My feeling is that for non-gaming purposes, the extra RAM is probably more cost-effective than a new video card.

Lord Blackadder
Mar 15, 2005, 03:03 PM
I would upgrade the QS the same way I have/would upgrade my Dual 533:

-SATA 2-channel PCI card

-250GB Hitachi 7200RPM SATA

-Get a WD Raptor and use it as the boot volume for faster startup.

-Radeon 9600 Pro. I think that this is nearly all the GPU the computer can ever use, and it's fairly cheap.

-Pioneer DVR-107D or 108

-Max the RAM at 1.5GB

-USB 2.0/FW800 PCI card

-Original 40GB ATA drive for OS 9

-G4 upgrade from OWC/Sonnet/Power Logix/Giga Designs @1.4+GHz

Italiano
Mar 15, 2005, 07:43 PM
-Radeon 9600 Pro. I think that this is nearly all the GPU the computer can ever use, and it's fairly cheap.


The 9800 blows it away - try it dude - you'll be amazed... :cool:

aloofman
Mar 16, 2005, 11:07 AM
I would upgrade the QS the same way I have/would upgrade my Dual 533:

-SATA 2-channel PCI card

-250GB Hitachi 7200RPM SATA

-Get a WD Raptor and use it as the boot volume for faster startup.

-Radeon 9600 Pro. I think that this is nearly all the GPU the computer can ever use, and it's fairly cheap.

-Pioneer DVR-107D or 108

-Max the RAM at 1.5GB

-USB 2.0/FW800 PCI card

-Original 40GB ATA drive for OS 9

-G4 upgrade from OWC/Sonnet/Power Logix/Giga Designs @1.4+GHz

Is it really worth doing all that to a 3.5-year-old computer? At some point it ceases to make economic sense.

Lord Blackadder
Mar 17, 2005, 10:54 AM
The 9800 blows it away - try it dude - you'll be amazed... :cool:

I know, but when I was in the market for a card they were $300 (THAT blew me away); nowadays they are down to $240 but the 9600 is half the cost for 80% of the performance. You see a bigger difference on the G5, but not so much on the G4. But yeah, if you can afford it, go ahead.

To Aloofman:

Upgrading a G4 this much only makes sense if you wish to improve your performance significantly but for some reason can't get a new Powermac. I will agree that for most users a Mac mini or iMac will be a better choice and will cost the same or less than all the upgrades. However if you want muliple hard drives, certain video cards or PCI cards (among other things) the all-in-one machines are useless, and the G5 powermacs are more expensive. Also remember that a new Mac is a lump sum expense, whereas the upgrade route can be done over a long period of time to suit one's finances. And a heavily upgraded G4 tower can still offer very good performance. So the answer to your question is it depends. :D

Mord
Mar 17, 2005, 11:10 AM
$220 if bought with the cubeowner discount (no proof of cube ownership required :D)

http://eshop.macsales.com/Specials/cube_owner.cfm

aloofman
Mar 17, 2005, 02:44 PM
So the answer to your question is it depends. :D

Glad that's settled! :D

triotary
Mar 18, 2005, 02:08 AM
I have the QS733 too,

regarding the DVR-107D or 108,

if Im just running OS10.2.8, what do I have to do make drive works?

does my plafform needs a 3rd party PCI card to use 130G and above HDD?

Mord
Mar 18, 2005, 06:11 AM
no.

BillHarrison
Mar 18, 2005, 06:38 AM
This is said friend...

I haven't bought it yet, but it's pretty much a sure thing. I like the upgradeability of it and I'm not too concerned about the footprint it has.

Anyway, I was definitely going to drop a CPU upgrade into it. I was looking at the Gigadesigns over at MacGuru but the OWC seem fine as well.

Maxing out the RAM is a definite and probably going to drop the Radeon 9800 Pro vid card into it as well as slapping in a Superdrive. Can anyone recommend a superdrive that's going to match the system aesthetically as well as give me good performance?

I would definitely weigh my needs today, and in the future before making any decisions on this. You mentioned the machine costing you $550. I assume its mainly stock at this point. To get any real performance out of it, I definitely feel you need to up the ram to around 1gb (figure 125$), the processor to 1.4ghz or so (figure on 250$), and the video card to a newer / faster model (figure on 125$).

You are now up to 1050, and you still have whatever harddrive it came with. That can set you back close to 100 bucks. You are seriously getting into G5 iMac and PowerMac territory now.

And well above Mac Mini territory. These days, there really is little that cannot be expanded via Firewire / USB 2. So the lack of PCI "slots" is less of a deal breaker than in times past. Or I am fully sure you could set your hands on a SP 1.6 / 1.8 G5 Powermac for the 1300 price tag.

I am just curious what your intended use for the machine is, that will definitely help decide what upgrades / route you should take.

Lord Blackadder
Mar 18, 2005, 10:56 AM
The G4 1.4GHz CPU will cost you between $380-$400+ shipped.

What apps are you planning on running? If the word "games" appears anywhere in your thoughts you MUST get a G5 tower - with Doom 3 we have finally reached the threshold at which the (non dual-core) G4 is obsolete for gaming. A used single processor G5 decently configured will cost at least a couple hundred more than the upgraded G4 but will be faster and have more room to grow, since the G4 will be nearing it's maximum potential.

If you don't feel that games are vey important the G4 will do well - as long as you aren't manipulating huge images in Photoshop or making Hollywood films in Final Cut Pro. iLife '04 is pretty responsive on my Dual 533, and I have no problems with MS office, internet browsing, the GIMP, and any games released during 2003 or before.

triotary
Mar 18, 2005, 02:45 PM
no.


NO as to my question?

so a DVR-108 is a plug and play for QS733 with only jaquar?

so my on board IDE with detect full 160G HDD?

Mord
Mar 18, 2005, 03:05 PM
yes a 160GB HD will work as a 160GB HD and you will be able to see all of it, the DA G4's were the last with the limit.

yellow
Mar 18, 2005, 03:13 PM
AFAIK, hector isn't correct.

The BootROM of the MDD Macs were the first ones that allowed the built-in ATA to see disks beyond the 128GB limit.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86178

You will have to use PatchBurn to see a DVR-108 on your QS. Uh, let me rephrase that.. to use the OS built-in burning utility, or iDVD, etc, (e.g., NOT having to use Toast), then you should use PatchBurn 1.1b2.

See the PatchBurn website for more info.

http://www.patchburn.de/

triotary
Mar 18, 2005, 03:34 PM
AFAIK, hector isn't correct.

The BootROM of the MDD Macs were the first ones that allowed the built-in ATA to see disks beyond the 128GB limit.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86178

You will have to use PatchBurn to see a DVR-108 on your QS. Uh, let me rephrase that.. to use the OS built-in burning utility, or iDVD, etc, (e.g., NOT having to use Toast), then you should use PatchBurn 1.1b2.

See the PatchBurn website for more info.

http://www.patchburn.de/

yeah! that were on my mind too, but I wasnt sure.

Thanks thanks!

Mord
Mar 18, 2005, 04:04 PM
contary to what apple claims big drives do work in a quicksilver as noted on XLR8yourmac.com ;).

big drives even work in B&W g3's with a software patch which OWC sells (www.macsales.com)

yellow
Mar 18, 2005, 04:28 PM
Prey tell, why didn't a 200GB disk show it's true size in MY Quicksilver?

Mord
Mar 18, 2005, 06:01 PM
http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/drivedb/action.lasso?-search

well acording to these people it should have

triotary
Mar 18, 2005, 06:57 PM
I think only the QS2002 and above will recognize 120G and above

yellow
Mar 18, 2005, 07:04 PM
http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/drivedb/action.lasso?-search

well acording to these people it should have

Bad link..

Well this link (http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/action.lasso?-database=faq.fp3&-layout=FaqList&-response=answer.faq.lasso&-recordID=34188&-search) explains it, I have a QS'01. So we're both right/wrong. :)

Blue Velvet
Mar 19, 2005, 01:28 AM
http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/drivedb/action.lasso?-search

well acording to these people it should have


Perhaps it's best to limit your advice to something you actually have experience of and restrict said advice to the machine under discussion...

The 733QSs do not take larger hard-drives than 128Gb regardless of how you partition them. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, we have 2 of these exact same models in the office and Sonnet Tempo PCI cards had to be purchased for both of them.

Mord
Mar 19, 2005, 04:38 AM
i have put big drives in a quicksilver before, maybe it just dosent work in some really early models, anyway as i said there is software to patch it so it dose work which is cheap like 8.

AstroManLuca
Mar 19, 2005, 03:25 PM
Ugh. So many mistakes in this thread. Let me clear up the misconceptions.

1) The digital audio and Quicksilver '01 models are almost identical other than the appearance. They use essentially the same motherboard.
2) All PowerMac G4s of the Quicksilver '01 and earlier revisions are limited to 128 GB hard drives. The Quicksilver '02 model (800, 933, dual 1 GHz) was the first PowerMac to remove this limit.
3) Getting a Radeon 9200 would be a TERRIBLE decision, since it uses PCI instead of AGP. You need AGP for Quartz Extreme acceleration. I would personally suggest either a Radeon 8500 (cheap, low end), a GeForce 4 Titanium (best for gaming, ADC support), or a modded Radeon 9600 Pro (CoreImage support). Personally I'd go with the 9600 Pro, since it's fanless and supports CoreImage, and you can get them for very cheap from www.macsales.com.
4) You don't need a USB 2.0 or FW800 PCI card. Really... why would you need one? It's a totally unnecessary expense.
5) DVD burners are cheap if you look in the right places. Use the drive compatibility database at www.xlr8yourmac.com to find which ones work with Patchburn 3, or just buy a Pioneer from www.newegg.com and use that. Or just keep the standard optical drive, which probably isn't that bad.

Please people, unless you really understand what you're talking about, you should not post as if what you're saying is the gospel truth. Instead of saying that ALL Quicksilvers support big drives because they have in your personal experience, you should say that it's only anecdotal evidence. Or that they do, but only with a hack.

Also, I'd recommend buying a Serial ATA card. They're around $60 and will let you use new SATA drives. Of course, you can find a regular ATA/133 card that is Mac compatible on NewEgg for around $50-$60 as well. So get whichever one you like.

kingcrowing
Mar 19, 2005, 04:19 PM
Well, i've recently purchased a QS '02 933MHz, it's truly amazing! it's got 1.25GB RAM, a superdrive, a geforce4 Ti 128MB, a 60GB HD and a 111GB HD, all the space i need, even though i could add more, i love it and it's really fast, i may eventually upgrade the processor (if i'm going to spend the $$, i'd rater get ~dual 1.25GHz than a single 1.7GHz) but i may also sell it/ trade it for something with a LCD, because i have an old 15" CRT (YUCK! but at least it's a sony top 'o the line CRT!) but performance wise, it's great! I've yet to really try any games (i'm going to get a demo of UT04 today to see what it can do) but the GPU seem great, i'd recomend it, but i've got no idea how much the 4600 Ti goes for...