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MacRumors
May 20, 2011, 04:44 PM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/20/intel-preps-1-7ghz-and-1-8ghz-processors-suitable-for-next-macbook-air/)


http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/mbathin.jpg


CPU World (http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2011051601_Intel_readies_Core_i5_and_Core_i7_ULV_CPUs.html) reports that Intel is working on three new ULV (ultra low voltage) Sandy Bridge processors due later this year (via Electronista (http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/05/20/intel.has.faster.sandy.bridge.ulv.chips.due.soon/)).

The three new processors increase the clock speed over their existing ULV processors from 1.4-1.6GHz to 1.7-1.8GHz while keeping the TDP (thermal design power) at 17 Watts. The TDP is one of the key factors in Apple's ability to fit these processors into their ultra-portable MacBook Air. At 17 Watts, these processors could indeed be used in Apple's MacBook Air.

We previously highlighted (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/06/intel-launching-next-generation-macbook-air-processors/) Intel's currently shipping ULV processors as likely candidates for the next MacBook Air. These new processors are obviously more attractive candidates with turbo boost speeds up to 2.7-2.9GHz. The new processors are listed here:

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/corechips.gif

(http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/corechips.gif)
CPU World (http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2011051601_Intel_readies_Core_i5_and_Core_i7_ULV_CPUs.html) has no word on the launch date of these processors, but Apple's been known to receive Intel parts earlier than other manufacturers. The MacBook Air is rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/18/apple-to-launch-new-macbook-air-in-june-july/) to be launching in the June-July timeframe. These new processors would represent a significant boost over the existing MacBook Air processors which are still using the Core 2 Duo processors.


Article Link: Intel Preps 1.7GHz and 1.8GHz Processors Suitable for Next MacBook Air (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/20/intel-preps-1-7ghz-and-1-8ghz-processors-suitable-for-next-macbook-air/)



dannyp1996
May 20, 2011, 04:49 PM
This is pretty interesting stuff and could mean that the MacBook Air is a real option for users of current low end MacBooks and MacBook Pros.

Yvan256
May 20, 2011, 04:51 PM
It's a bit more than going from 1.4-1.6GHz to 1.7-1.8GHz... it's also going from a Core 2 Duo to an i5/i7.

It's probably going to lose the nVidia 320M, however, so I'm not sure it's all good for games. How does the integrated intel GPU fare against the nVidia 320M for, say, Portal 2?

The resolution of the MacBook Air built-in display isn't that high so it's probably good enough already, but is it at least on par with the 320M?

arn
May 20, 2011, 04:52 PM
It's a bit more than going from 1.4GHz to 1.6GHz... it's also going from a Core 2 Duo to an i5/i7.

It's probably going to lose the nVidia 320M, however, so I'm not sure it's all good for games. How does the integrated intel GPU fare against the nVidia 320M for, say, Portal 2?

the ghz comparison was comparing the existing Sandy Bridge Core i5 ULV processors which were 1.4-1.6GHz. These new ones represent a speed boost over the ones that are shipping right now.

arn

dannyp1996
May 20, 2011, 04:56 PM
It's a bit more than going from 1.4-1.6GHz to 1.7-1.8GHz... it's also going from a Core 2 Duo to an i5/i7.

It's probably going to lose the nVidia 320M, however, so I'm not sure it's all good for games. How does the integrated intel GPU fare against the nVidia 320M for, say, Portal 2?

Don't know about the integrated graphics? Maybe the current setup would be ok? Saying that I don't really consider the MacBook Air as a gaming system.

Kentochan
May 20, 2011, 04:56 PM
This is pretty legit! Can't wait to see how they play!

Traktor
May 20, 2011, 04:57 PM
This looks really interesting, I would certanly bought one of these.

Yvan256
May 20, 2011, 04:57 PM
the ghz comparison was comparing the existing Sandy Bridge Core i5 ULV processors which were 1.4-1.6GHz. These new ones represent a speed boost over the ones that are shipping right now.

arn

Ok, but that's a bit irrelevant when talking about the MacBook Air since Apple is still using the Core 2 Duo (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html) for them.

I was talking about the boost between the current MacBook Air models and the possible-future-MacBook Air models that would use these new CPUs.

Yamcha
May 20, 2011, 05:00 PM
Nice to see even the macbook airs are getting sandy bridge processors..

chelsel
May 20, 2011, 05:01 PM
I would love to see 3G added to these machines, maybe a data plan similar to the iPad, i.e., no contract on-demand monthly billing.

ciTiger
May 20, 2011, 05:04 PM
How yeah! This should increase the performance of the MBA greatly!
Now if they can add a back lit keyboard and increase the battery a bit it will make it the perfect "netbook" :)

Piggie
May 20, 2011, 05:12 PM
It's actually going to be interesting to see if Apple can keep the screen res of their laptops, such as the air so low down, if they do indeed bring out an iPad next year with a 2048x1536 screen resolution.

It's going to hard to argue than a Laptop, such as this new air, or the current macbooks don't have the need or power to drive that screen res, when a much lower power tablet can drive it.

Going to be interesting to see what happens.

toddybody
May 20, 2011, 05:22 PM
It's a bit more than going from 1.4-1.6GHz to 1.7-1.8GHz... it's also going from a Core 2 Duo to an i5/i7.

It's probably going to lose the nVidia 320M, however, so I'm not sure it's all good for games. How does the integrated intel GPU fare against the nVidia 320M for, say, Portal 2?

The resolution of the MacBook Air built-in display isn't that high so it's probably good enough already, but is it at least on par with the 320M?

Yes it will have to loose the 320m, and no the IGP does not perform equally. The res of both sizes are very nice IMHO, but that's immaterial as the IGP could power a 2560x1440 screen easily. Just don't expect to use graphics intensive applications (i.e., gaming). Now, portal (and most things source powered) aren't that big of a deal, and should be playable at low settings (as I've seen Portal 2 run on other SB IGP machines...though the fps dipped below 25 occasionally).

IMO, if Apple provides better battery + expected SB processing gains + Tb...I'd call it a good refresh.

AppleDroid
May 20, 2011, 05:24 PM
This is excellent news since even lower Ghz i5/i7 are faster than equivalent C2D. Plus my wife's old Acer (don't ask) has been on life support and all she needs is an internet machine.

petrucci666
May 20, 2011, 05:24 PM
Please put the Backlit Keyboard back in!! It's a must!

macrumors12345
May 20, 2011, 05:24 PM
Can't wait...my original MacBook Air (January 2008 model!) is limping along with only 64 GB of hard drive space...

KristenM
May 20, 2011, 05:25 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Makes my decision of whether to wait or not even worse!! I really need a new laptop but would hate to see an upgrade in only a month.

MTD's Mac
May 20, 2011, 05:26 PM
It's actually going to be interesting to see if Apple can keep the screen res of their laptops, such as the air so low down, if they do indeed bring out an iPad next year with a 2048x1536 screen resolution.

It's going to hard to argue than a Laptop, such as this new air, or the current macbooks don't have the need or power to drive that screen res, when a much lower power tablet can drive it.

Going to be interesting to see what happens.

It doesn't seem like having enough graphics power to drive a display is an issue. The current MBA, and the 13" MPB with HD3000 Intel graphics both drive the 27" Cinema Display, plus their internal displays, just fine. I thought it was more about the cost and availability of hi-res screens from Apple's suppliers.

That said, it seems odd that the last MBP didn't get a boost to give it the MBA's resolution. Probably a hint at who Apple things the users are for each machine, though I'm not sure what it implies...

OceanView
May 20, 2011, 05:28 PM
This is excellent news since even lower Ghz i5/i7 are faster than equivalent C2D. Plus my wife's old Acer (don't ask) has been on life support and all she needs is an internet machine.

An Acer? Wow she must have the patience of a Saint.
Is that like 10 years old? Just wondering

gman901
May 20, 2011, 05:32 PM
Patrick Norton on today's Tekzilla podcast was reviewing the new ultra thin Lenovo Thinkpad which has the Core i5 processor and IGP HD3000. He stated for gaming that this laptop with the same IGP that allegedly will go into the new Air is not good for gaming. He said you won't be playing any FPS games with it. I think my current Air does admirable job playing games like Portal 2, Crysis 2, etc.

rufwork
May 20, 2011, 05:37 PM
Don't know about the integrated graphics? Maybe the current setup would be ok? Saying that I don't really consider the MacBook Air as a gaming system.

That's like saying you've got a Nikon DSLR and won't use the camera in the iPhone 5, so there's no reason worrying about its specifications.

As it turns out, there are times the best camera you've got is the one you have. If you want to play Portal 2 and have a MBA handy, it'd be interesting to know how much worse you can expect it to act than, say, going with a similarly priced MacBook that's got a dedicated chip (if it still does in the next rev).

I've got a great Windows tower at home for playing WoW, but I still play a little on my MacBook 2.26 when I'm on the road. It's worse, but still quite playable. Good to know, you know?

EDIT: Here's a YouTube with Intel GMA 4500 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_QbYJYsqok). Not great, but playable. And slowdown in a single player game isn't as bad as fragging someone online. Of course, this Yahoo question says it stinks (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110503140956AAJorrd).

Ha, a Portal 2 walkthrough filmed on a GMA HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxRlkU90I4E).

cleric
May 20, 2011, 05:45 PM
The biggest problem with HD3000 IGP is that its not supported by Apples hardware acceleration api so flash(youtube) is going to suck.

DocNYz
May 20, 2011, 05:47 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Makes my decision of whether to wait or not even worse!! I really need a new laptop but would hate to see an upgrade in only a month.

Definitely wait, it'll be worth it!

manu chao
May 20, 2011, 05:49 PM
That's like saying you've got a Nikon DSLR and won't use the camera in the iPhone 5, so there's no reason worrying about its specifications.

As it turns out, there are times the best camera you've got is the one you have. If you want to play Portal 2 and have a MBA handy, it'd be interesting to know how much worse you can expect it to act than, say, going with a similarly priced MacBook that's got a dedicated chip (if it still does in the next rev).

The last time I played any game on a computer was in the year 2000, I'd say it is pretty irrelevant to me how well my Mac does games. To use your example, if you have not taken a single picture in the last ten years despite carrying phones with increasingly better cameras with you around, I'd say it is pretty irrelevant how good these cameras are.

paintblock
May 20, 2011, 05:50 PM
For when you want a computer that's only slightly faster than your cell phone. 1.2Ghz dual core Samsung Galaxy S II anyone?

kiljoy616
May 20, 2011, 05:57 PM
only two cores, i guess its better than what is out now. :(

macbook123
May 20, 2011, 05:57 PM
Please Apple bring on the 15.4" Macbook Air, aka 15.4" Macbook Pro without dinosaur optical drive!

You can even with the 15.4" display in the 13" Air if you reduce the ginormous bezel size just a little!

kiljoy616
May 20, 2011, 06:00 PM
Patrick Norton on today's Tekzilla podcast was reviewing the new ultra thin Lenovo Thinkpad which has the Core i5 processor and IGP HD3000. He stated for gaming that this laptop with the same IGP that allegedly will go into the new Air is not good for gaming. He said you won't be playing any FPS games with it. I think my current Air does admirable job playing games like Portal 2, Crysis 2, etc.

Lets not kid our selves intel built in GPU is low and not going to get any better I am not impressed.

toddybody
May 20, 2011, 06:00 PM
For when you want a computer that's only slightly faster than your cell phone. 1.2Ghz dual core Samsung Galaxy S II anyone?

http://www.shinyshiny.tv/troll.jpg

adztaylor
May 20, 2011, 06:01 PM
For when you want a computer that's only slightly faster than your cell phone. 1.2Ghz dual core Samsung Galaxy S II anyone?

I hope you're joking.

blow45
May 20, 2011, 06:04 PM
the article doesn't got into the gfx issue with is all that matters, because sooner rather than later we expected these chips anyway, so it'a
fail for me

keewawa
May 20, 2011, 06:07 PM
Blimey:eek:~~~ really can't wait!! Definitely will go for a high end one!

PraisiX-windows
May 20, 2011, 06:10 PM
Oh no, this is definately going to make me pick the ultimate version of the 13", I better quit smoking so that I can afford it, phew, studying ain't easy.

Cinch
May 20, 2011, 06:16 PM
I used to think the MBA was my way to computing, but I'm having second thought. I think an iMac (Mac mini) plus an iPad is the way to go. The iMac is perfect for long hours of working and makes for a great media hub. The iPad with airplay is great for everything else that is not work related. The MBA lacks the convenience of the iPad and the robustness of the iMac. I just don't see a future of laptops. Die laptop die, along with your outdated optical drive. Who would have thought that the desktop would be making a comeback!

mehware
May 20, 2011, 06:19 PM
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/troll.jpg

I don't normally log in and post, but that's the cutest picture ever!

ipodlover77
May 20, 2011, 06:20 PM
The biggest problem with HD3000 IGP is that its not supported by Apples hardware acceleration api so flash(youtube) is going to suck.

sorry if this comes off as stupid but does this mean that the 320m has better youtube playback capabilities than the sandy bridge+hd3000?

OSMac
May 20, 2011, 06:22 PM
Is not the current 11.6" Air CPU 10W ?

rufwork
May 20, 2011, 06:22 PM
... To use your example, if you have not taken a single picture in the last ten years despite carrying phones with increasingly better cameras with you around, I'd say it is pretty irrelevant how good these cameras are.

Then I'm talking to Yvan256. :D

KnightWRX
May 20, 2011, 06:24 PM
sorry if this comes off as stupid but does this mean that the 320m has better youtube playback capabilities than the sandy bridge+hd3000?

Depends. Since it will run in software on the Sandy Bridge CPU, maybe the processor is fast enough that it can decompress the H.264 as efficiently as the 320M.

WiiDSmoker
May 20, 2011, 06:27 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

The biggest problem with HD3000 IGP is that its not supported by Apples hardware acceleration api so flash(youtube) is going to suck.

YouTube.com/html5 solves your issues.

apdg
May 20, 2011, 06:30 PM
sorry if this comes off as stupid but does this mean that the 320m has better youtube playback capabilities than the sandy bridge+hd3000?

Yes. But probably not to a degree that many people will find problematic. While it's definitely true that the HD 3000 is a significant step backward from the 320M, it's backed by a more powerful CPU which closes the gap enough to where the only people who'll notice a difference are those playing games. A couple folks here have pointed out that processors far weaker than the HD 3000 has been giving people good experiences for a long long time. It just that it happens to be weaker than the 320 that bums some folks out.

I'd be interested to see what the base and turbo clock speeds of the HD 3000 in these chips are. The previous best 17W was only 350/1000, significantly less than the HD 3000 the 13" MBPs have.

AppleScruff1
May 20, 2011, 06:36 PM
This is good news. The MBA will really fly now. A big thumbs up.

ipodlover77
May 20, 2011, 06:38 PM
This is good news. The MBA will really fly now. A big thumbs up.

just to be sure, when you say fly, you mean breeze through CPU intensive things or will it fly in general (as in more noticeable than the C2D in everything)

thenewperson
May 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
For when you want a computer that's only slightly faster than your cell phone. 1.2Ghz dual core Samsung Galaxy S II anyone?

I'm not sure if you're being serious...

apdg
May 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
Is not the current 11.6" Air CPU 10W ?

Yes, but it has the 320M which is not included in that TDP. The TDP of the Sandy Bridge chips includes the HD 3000, which should mean lower power consumption overall.

AppleScruff1
May 20, 2011, 06:43 PM
just to be sure, when you say fly, you mean breeze through CPU intensive things or will it fly in general (as in more noticeable than the C2D in everything)

I think you will notice a difference in just about everything. Web pages will load quicker, etc. I think that this is going to be one sweet machine, and it is a nice one in it's current rendition. This one will encroach even more into the Macbook Pro 13" market, IMHO.

apdg
May 20, 2011, 06:49 PM
I'd be interested to see what the base and turbo clock speeds of the HD 3000 in these chips are. The previous best 17W was only 350/1000, significantly less than the HD 3000 the 13" MBPs have.

Looks like the original article claims 350mhz base and 1.2ghz turbo. Not insignificant I suppose.

Slix
May 20, 2011, 06:56 PM
I kinda just want this to come out so the October 2010 models will be cheaper, so I can eventually get one of those.

Jaro65
May 20, 2011, 07:14 PM
I currently have the maxed out 2010 13" MBA and I simply love the machine. But...I will say that it only takes a few minutes of a Skype video call to get the fans spinning pretty fast. The new CPU sounds great and I would consider getting an i7-based MBA, though it will be interesting to see how the new CPU/IGP will impact the overall performance. Also, crossing my fingers that Apple includes larger flash drives in the new MBAs.

rk1985
May 20, 2011, 07:14 PM
An Acer? Wow she must have the patience of a Saint.
Is that like 10 years old? Just wondering

I suggest you google "Acer". You'd probably be surprised at what you find. Huge player in the global market and dominant in Europe.

KnightWRX
May 20, 2011, 07:15 PM
I currently have the maxed out 2010 13" MBA and I simply love the machine. But...I will say that it only takes a few minutes of a Skype video call to get the fans spinning pretty fast.

You will never be satisfied with any laptop if that is your issue. CPUs get hot when used. When they get hot, fans spin up. It's just the way it is.

Laird Knox
May 20, 2011, 07:18 PM
It's actually going to be interesting to see if Apple can keep the screen res of their laptops, such as the air so low down, if they do indeed bring out an iPad next year with a 2048x1536 screen resolution.

It's going to hard to argue than a Laptop, such as this new air, or the current macbooks don't have the need or power to drive that screen res, when a much lower power tablet can drive it.

I don't believe it is a power issue. Two points to consider when upping the pixel density on the laptops.

1) Distance to screen. A laptop will likely be used at a further distance than either a smart phone or tablet. Still, a bump would be nice.

2) Yield. The larger the screen size the lower the production yield. There is a significantly higher risk of a defect in a 13" screen opposed to a 3.5" screen. Also by increasing the pixel density you also increase the chance of a defect. So manufacturing gets dinged twice on this one.

With that said I think we will see pixel densities increasing over the next few years. It is just a matter of timing.

thermodynamic
May 20, 2011, 07:20 PM
Depends. Since it will run in software on the Sandy Bridge CPU, maybe the processor is fast enough that it can decompress the H.264 as efficiently as the 320M.

Except the GPU should be doing the work when possible. If I'm doing rendering, which is CPU intensive, the last thing I want is to play a video at the same time* and see everything slow down because the drivers aren't making proper use of the dedicated GPU. Most Macs have it, some don't. And depending on criteria.

* multitasking is too commonplace nowadays not to consider

KnightWRX
May 20, 2011, 07:21 PM
Except the GPU should be doing the work when possible.

Then ask Apple to add support for AMD and Intel GPUs to the VDA framework. ;)

thermodynamic
May 20, 2011, 07:22 PM
Yes. But probably not to a degree that many people will find problematic. While it's definitely true that the HD 3000 is a significant step backward from the 320M, it's backed by a more powerful CPU which closes the gap enough to where the only people who'll notice a difference are those playing games. A couple folks here have pointed out that processors far weaker than the HD 3000 has been giving people good experiences for a long long time. It just that it happens to be weaker than the 320 that bums some folks out.

I'd be interested to see what the base and turbo clock speeds of the HD 3000 in these chips are. The previous best 17W was only 350/1000, significantly less than the HD 3000 the 13" MBPs have.

I'll agree those are good points, but for a higher-priced machine, people perceive quality. Therefore, especially as the OS is said to be finely tuned to the hardware, the people being bummed out do have a valid point.

flopticalcube
May 20, 2011, 07:23 PM
Except the GPU should be doing the work when possible. If I'm doing rendering, which is CPU intensive, the last thing I want is to play a video at the same time* and see everything slow down because the drivers aren't making proper use of the dedicated GPU. Most Macs have it, some don't. And depending on criteria.

* multitasking is too commonplace nowadays not to consider

Given that the GPU and CPU now share the same die, this will inherently present conflicts and tradeoffs. You can have a fast CPU or an OK GPU but not both at the same time.

rolfbert
May 20, 2011, 07:23 PM
The biggest problem with HD3000 IGP is that its not supported by Apples hardware acceleration api so flash(youtube) is going to suck.

youtube has a html5 version available for a very long time

thermodynamic
May 20, 2011, 07:24 PM
Then ask Apple to add support for AMD and Intel GPUs to the VDA framework. ;)

None of us should be asking or need to ask in the first place, if the OS is finely-tuned to the hardware in the first place. ;)

Thankfully, video playback isn't a major issue for me, but it is for others. They're worth considering as well.

rolfbert
May 20, 2011, 07:26 PM
Don't know about the integrated graphics? Maybe the current setup would be ok? Saying that I don't really consider the MacBook Air as a gaming system.

the hd3000 over whatever it is called is about as fast as a nvidia 8600m gt

thermodynamic
May 20, 2011, 07:28 PM
youtube has a html5 version available for a very long time

HTML5 is a tag-based coding language, which tells the browser to play the file. It isn't a codec.

h.264 is the video coded I believe you're referring to, and Apple has a direct stake in its success. (hence the weirdness that it's not fully optimized on all Macs, but I have read that ATi acceleration is in development. It's just weird that, given 2009/2010 Mac Pros and 2011 MacBook Pros using ATi have been left on the wayside in this instance and, again, it'll be addressed so it's a matter of patience and time...)

And, while a year old, there's more to the HTML5/flash discussion than meets the eye:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/youtube-html5-does-not-yet-meet-all-of-our-needs/8809

rolfbert
May 20, 2011, 07:37 PM
HTML5 is a tag-based coding language, which tells the browser to play the file. It isn't a codec.

h.264 is the video coded I believe you're referring to, and Apple has a direct stake in its success. (hence the weirdness that it's not fully optimized on all Macs, but I have read that ATi acceleration is in development. It's just weird that, given 2009/2010 Mac Pros and 2011 MacBook Pros using ATi have been left on the wayside in this instance and, again, it'll be addressed so it's a matter of patience and time...)

And, while a year old, there's more to the HTML5/flash discussion than meets the eye:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/youtube-html5-does-not-yet-meet-all-of-our-needs/8809

I mostly mean that it doesn't run as choppy as the flash version as flash is quite demanding on mac os for whatever reason.

MBABuyer
May 20, 2011, 07:43 PM
"Intel is working on three new ULV (ultra low voltage) Sandy Bridge processors due later this year"


Does the above quote mean they are still working on the chips? That would set the June release speculation way off, right? Does this mean we wont see and update before the end of August?

Thanks,
Swayne

flopticalcube
May 20, 2011, 07:47 PM
"Intel is working on three new ULV (ultra low voltage) Sandy Bridge processors due later this year"


Does the above quote mean they are still working on the chips? That would set the June release speculation way off, right? Does this mean we wont see and update before the end of August?

Thanks,
Swayne
At this stage it's most likely manufacturing details being worked out. No one appears to know exactly when they will come.

airplaneman
May 20, 2011, 07:53 PM
For when you want a computer that's only slightly faster than your cell phone. 1.2Ghz dual core Samsung Galaxy S II anyone?

The MacBook Air certainly doesn't fit the above description...

AppleDroid
May 20, 2011, 08:13 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

This is excellent news since even lower Ghz i5/i7 are faster than equivalent C2D. Plus my wife's old Acer (don't ask) has been on life support and all she needs is an internet machine.

An Acer? Wow she must have the patience of a Saint.
Is that like 10 years old? Just wondering

She got it cheap for nursing school before I converted her to the Mac side.

Sadly it's slower than dirt, overheats and the battery barely holds a charge but the thing won't die! And she isn't a tech head so the motto "if it isn't broke don't fix (replace) it" is what she swears by.

Can't fault her, she saves more than she spends!

3bs
May 20, 2011, 08:19 PM
I kinda just want this to come out so the October 2010 models will be cheaper, so I can eventually get one of those.

I thought that since a new MBA is coming out in june/july that meant there won't be one coming out in october? I was pretty bummed by this cause I just got a MBA like a month ago

KPOM
May 20, 2011, 08:27 PM
It would be nice to see some specs on the IGP. The current 1.4-1.6GHz Sandy Bridge chips have integrated graphics processors that run at 350MHz normally, with turbo boost to 900-1000MHz (depending on the model). On the whole, I'd see it as a positive if Apple delays the new MacBook Air a little bit to get these processors in them. It would be a significant CPU boost, and if the IGP is an improvement over the current Sandy Bridge, then perhaps it wouldn't be quite as much of a step backwards in terms of graphics.

Update: The linked CPU World article answers my question. The i7 gets a turbo boost increase, though the standard speed remains the same.


Two forthcoming Core i7 ULV dual-core processors, i7-2637M and i7-2677M, have 1.7 and 1.8 GHz base, and 2.8 GHz and 2.9 GHz Turbo Boost frequencies. This is 200 MHz higher than the frequencies of their predecessors, Core i7-2617M and i7-2657M. Default clock rate of the HD 3000 graphics on new chips stays the same, 350 MHz, although the maximum turbo frequency is increased to 1.2 GHz.

Core i5-2557M part has two CPU cores, clocked at 1.7 GHz, and can execute 4 threads at the same time. The model also features Turbo Boost technology, that can temporarily overclock the CPU up to 2.8 GHz. L3 cache on this chip is smaller, only 3 MB, while all other processor characteristics, including specifications of on-chip HD 3000 graphics, are identical to Core i7 ULV parts.

strwrsfrk
May 20, 2011, 08:28 PM
Does the above quote mean they are still working on the chips? That would set the June release speculation way off, right? Does this mean we wont see and update before the end of August?

Apple has been known to get Intel chips ahead of official launches, as mentioned in the article. So a few months lead time in the MBA before the chips are publicly announced would not be shocking.

What I want to know - which does not appear to have been touched in this thread - is what we will see in the 13" machines. The 2.16GHz Core 2 processor CURRENTLY runs at 17W, and that's without taking the TDP of the 320M into consideration. Assuming the C2D and 320M of the 13" MBA pushes a bit beyond 25W, that leaves substantial room for a massive ULV i5 or i7. The current i7-2649M (http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=54611) has a TDP of 25W, a base clock of 2.3GHz, HT, and a TB of 3.2GHz. Plus, it supports the 8GB of RAM everyone (including me) seems to want.

My question is, if Intel is optimizing these Core i3's that sound like they would be perfect for the 11" MBA's, does that mean that they are optimizing more powerful chips for the 13" MBA's? Or will we see options (for which many people are asking) for a 13" option with a separate Nvidia or AMD graphics chip?

Cheerwino
May 20, 2011, 08:39 PM
Image (http://www.shinyshiny.tv/troll.jpg)
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/troll.jpg
"And now, Full Frontal Nudity!"

OceanView
May 20, 2011, 09:06 PM
I suggest you google "Acer". You'd probably be surprised at what you find. Huge player in the global market and dominant in Europe.

That may be but they have been out of the US market for a long time.
Even when they were here, they were junk. Most people bought from Dell instead.

couto27
May 20, 2011, 09:51 PM
potencial buyer here if this rumors are true.
what i would like to see in future macbook air model

-intel sandy bridge
-at least 4 gb ram user upgradable.
-at least 7 hours battery
-backlit keyboard
-stop soldering every single components.
-i dont mind to see the air gain some weight, if apple put sata3 on it.
-does ocz vertex3 are really blazing fast.

but all points thats not going to happend.

madhatter61
May 20, 2011, 10:36 PM
potencial buyer here if this rumors are true.
what i would like to see in future macbook air model

-intel sandy bridge
-at least 4 gb ram user upgradable.
-at least 7 hours battery
-backlit keyboard
-stop soldering every single components.
-i dont mind to see the air gain some weight, if apple put sata3 on it.
-does ocz vertex3 are really blazing fast.

but all points thats not going to happend.

Soldering improves reliability... and backlit keyboards runs down the battery quicker. Apple is headed for Thunderbolt, not sata III... and they looking for lighter not heavier. I do have the opinion that the AIR will replace Macbook. Macbook will likely die. FWIW

megsandbytes
May 20, 2011, 10:38 PM
It's actually going to be interesting to see if Apple can keep the screen res of their laptops, such as the air so low down, if they do indeed bring out an iPad next year with a 2048x1536 screen resolution.

I've heard as soon as this fall, will believe it when I see it though, it's not far fetched for the iPad 3 to come out that soon though.

AidenShaw
May 20, 2011, 10:42 PM
Apple is headed for Thunderbolt, not sata III.

This statement seems to be nonsensical - there will be no TBolt disks on the market.

A disk enclosure connected by TBolt will contain a TBolt controller chip (does the TBolt in/out for the daisy chain, and offers a PCIe bus) and a PCIe-based SATA controller, and SATA disk drives.

In other words, it's nonsense to imply that TBolt will replace SATA.

drewyboy
May 20, 2011, 10:43 PM
Soldering improves reliability... and backlit keyboards runs down the battery quicker. Apple is headed for Thunderbolt, not sata III.

I believe for Sata III he means for internal sata connections. As far as replaceable stuff... that's not going to happen. Backlit, um... I would like it, but prob. won't for battery drain, but who knows. I'd say 70/30 in favor (apple) of not having it, prob. opposite for those who purchase.

michaelz
May 21, 2011, 12:20 AM
My credit card is ready. Please dont let me wait till "later this year"!

AppleScruff1
May 21, 2011, 12:35 AM
This really should be a nice piece of kit. It would be nice to see 4GBb of RAM and the 128Gb SSD standard for $999 on the 11".

apdg
May 21, 2011, 01:00 AM
the hd3000 over whatever it is called is about as fast as a nvidia 8600m gt

Unfortunately, this is not true. In fact it's doubly not true. First, the rankings where people have been getting that idea actually combine scores from two versions of the 8600M GT. The version which was in the older MBPs is significantly better than its brother, so the ranking for the 8600M GT that we're all familiar with should be quite a bit higher (I fell for this myself).

Second, the HD 3000 we're familiar with is the one that's in the 2011 13" MBP. The version of the HD 3000 we can expect in the Air (such as the one in the processors described in this thread) run at a lower clock speed. So we can't expect the MBA to have the same graphics performance as the MBP. Although, these new chip's turbo speed comes quite close to the chips in the MBP.

I'll agree those are good points, but for a higher-priced machine, people perceive quality. Therefore, especially as the OS is said to be finely tuned to the hardware, the people being bummed out do have a valid point.

Oh certainly, don't get me wrong, I feel we have some right to expect that a new generation of machine shouldn't involve taking a step backwards in something so central as GPU performance. I just mean that there are some business realities involved here that are forcing a sacrifice and Apple has deemed that the sacrifice will inconvenience a small enough sector of the potential customers of this machine that they're willing to go for it. Apple has a spectacular track record for knowing exactly how to scoop the biggest chunk of potential customers. I'm certain they know the downgrade to the HD 3000 will disappoint a group of us but by making this move to Sandy Bridge they're gaining a lot more fans than they're losing. I'd love something with 320M like power but I also understand why it's unrealistic to expect it in the current processor market. I think a 1.8ghz SB MBA owner will have very very little to complain about.

rovex
May 21, 2011, 01:34 AM
Image (http://www.shinyshiny.tv/troll.jpg)

Soft porn? What is up with you people!






:D

Dammit Cubs
May 21, 2011, 01:38 AM
as much as this is tempting. and I love sandy bridge as much as everybody else especially since I had colleagues that worked on it. I will have to say since I already have a MBA, I have no currrent need to upgrade. Web pages load fast and I haven't complained once about the slowness. I just wish I got a bit more battery life out of the 11.6 inch, but other than that. PERFECT MACHINE.

alust2013
May 21, 2011, 01:39 AM
Unfortunately, this is not true. In fact it's doubly not true. First, the rankings where people have been getting that idea actually combine scores from two versions of the 8600M GT. The version which was in the older MBPs is significantly better than its brother, so the ranking for the 8600M GT that we're all familiar with should be quite a bit higher (I fell for this myself).

Second, the HD 3000 we're familiar with is the one that's in the 2011 13" MBP. The version of the HD 3000 we can expect in the Air (such as the one in the processors described in this thread) run at a lower clock speed. So we can't expect the MBA to have the same graphics performance as the MBP. Although, these new chip's turbo speed comes quite close to the chips in the MBP.



Oh certainly, don't get me wrong, I feel we have some right to expect that a new generation of machine shouldn't involve taking a step backwards in something so central as GPU performance. I just mean that there are some business realities involved here that are forcing a sacrifice and Apple has deemed that the sacrifice will inconvenience a small enough sector of the potential customers of this machine that they're willing to go for it. Apple has a spectacular track record for knowing exactly how to scoop the biggest chunk of potential customers. I'm certain they know the downgrade to the HD 3000 will disappoint a group of us but by making this move to Sandy Bridge they're gaining a lot more fans than they're losing. I'd love something with 320M like power but I also understand why it's unrealistic to expect it in the current processor market. I think a 1.8ghz SB MBA owner will have very very little to complain about.

Holy cow, I think this is literally the most reasonable thing that anyone has said about it on here. Listen to this guy.

apdg
May 21, 2011, 01:40 AM
Hmm, actually... The i5 in the 2011 13" MBP base model, I believe, looks like this:

Base Frequency: 2.3ghz
Turbo Frequency: 2.9ghz
L3 Cache: 3MB
GPU Base Frequency: 650mhz
GPU Turbo Frequency: 1.2ghz

The high end i7 mentioned here looks like this:

Base Frequency: 1.8ghz
Turbo Frequency: 2.9ghz
L3 Cache: 4MB
GPU Base Frequency: 350mhz
GPU Turbo Frequency: 1.2ghz

Both with 2 cores and 4 threads.

Surely we can't hope that an MBA with this 1.8 chip will match or beat the base MBP when pushed? But with identical turbo frequencies, theoretically, as long as you keep it cool, the MBA could put out very similar frame rates to the MBP.

I suspect that the lower base frequencies might mean the reins are a little tighter for how much turboing can be done. But I don't know that I'd be surprised to see benchmark results being similar since I imagine the Air could run all fully turboed out long enough to get through a benchmark test.

I'd appreciate if someone could point out why I'm totally wrong here or I might get all hopeful and upbeat.

apdg
May 21, 2011, 01:46 AM
Holy cow, I think this is literally the most reasonable thing that anyone has said about it on here. Listen to this guy.

haha, just my two cents.

FoxMcCloud
May 21, 2011, 02:12 AM
Soldering improves reliability... and backlit keyboards runs down the battery quicker. Apple is headed for Thunderbolt, not sata III... and they looking for lighter not heavier. I do have the opinion that the AIR will replace Macbook. Macbook will likely die. FWIW

Interesting thing to say considering 2011 MacBook Pro's and iMac's have SATAIII. Why would it be heavier? Do you know what SATA is?

If they want Thunderbolt then they need the latest SATA otherwise it will be useless.

cube
May 21, 2011, 02:18 AM
They are not suitable. They have bad graphics.

FutureChips.org
May 21, 2011, 02:28 AM
Oh certainly, don't get me wrong, I feel we have some right to expect that a new generation of machine shouldn't involve taking a step backwards in something so central as GPU performance. I just mean that there are some business realities involved here that are forcing a sacrifice and Apple has deemed that the sacrifice will inconvenience a small enough sector of the potential customers of this machine that they're willing to go for it. Apple has a spectacular track record for knowing exactly how to scoop the biggest chunk of potential customers. I'm certain they know the downgrade to the HD 3000 will disappoint a group of us but by making this move to Sandy Bridge they're gaining a lot more fans than they're losing. I'd love something with 320M like power but I also understand why it's unrealistic to expect it in the current processor market. I think a 1.8ghz SB MBA owner will have very very little to complain about.

Funny how we just agree:-) I have been fighting a lot of people lately explaining to them that decisions are not purely technically, they are dictated by business. After all engineers need the business guys to pay them salaries. You may enjoy reading this (http://bit.ly/laQ6Y8) on this very topic.

FutureChips.org
May 21, 2011, 02:31 AM
They are not suitable. They have bad graphics.

We should wait to see the benchmark results.

cube
May 21, 2011, 02:32 AM
We should wait to see the benchmark results.

We don't need to wait. SB is already bad.

FutureChips.org
May 21, 2011, 02:36 AM
We don't need to wait. SB is already bad.

I think what you meant to say was bad a$$, not just bad ;) just messing with ya.

cheesymogul
May 21, 2011, 02:48 AM
For when you want a computer that's only slightly faster than your cell phone. 1.2Ghz dual core Samsung Galaxy S II anyone?
Obviously that phone is frying brains...

couto27
May 21, 2011, 02:51 AM
i wont buy one of does if apple uses the toshiba SSD's again.
The toshiba SSD is what Kingston uses in their line Kingstong V and V+ SSD's.
they are very slow.

No prices in 3rd party SSD but i imagine the cost...

When all the market is going to sata 6gbps, thunderbolt, looks like the air will be another limited model.

its better to old my credit card on this one.

Unless apple takes a rabbit out of the hat!!

wizard
May 21, 2011, 03:18 AM
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Only if they can increase the SSD size to reasonable values and maintain costs. It is the only thing left about the current AIRs that make them impossible for me. The faster processors would be very welcomed though.

wizard
May 21, 2011, 03:29 AM
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It's actually going to be interesting to see if Apple can keep the screen res of their laptops, such as the air so low down, if they do indeed bring out an iPad next year with a 2048x1536 screen resolution.

It's going to hard to argue than a Laptop, such as this new air, or the current macbooks don't have the need or power to drive that screen res, when a much lower power tablet can drive it.

Going to be interesting to see what happens.

You are not comparing Apple to oranges here. IOS is resolution independent, Mac OS is not. Until that is addressed I don't see higher resolution screens coming on Macs.

The real question is this: does Lion add enough improvement to make high resolution screens possible. I don't think it does but I'm not clued in as to all of Lions features.

Beyond that building a suitable high density screen for a laptop will be expensive and a technology stretch this year and likely into next year.

wizard
May 21, 2011, 03:54 AM
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sorry if this comes off as stupid but does this mean that the 320m has better youtube playback capabilities than the sandy bridge+hd3000?

Yes. But probably not to a degree that many people will find problematic. While it's definitely true that the HD 3000 is a significant step backward from the 320M, it's backed by a more powerful CPU which closes the gap enough to where the only people who'll notice a difference are those playing games. A couple folks here have pointed out that processors far weaker than the HD 3000 has been giving people good experiences for a long long time. It just that it happens to be weaker than the 320 that bums some folks out.

I'd be interested to see what the base and turbo clock speeds of the HD 3000 in these chips are. The previous best 17W was only 350/1000, significantly less than the HD 3000 the 13" MBPs have.

You mis important elements of the debate here. Some of the problems with the Intel GPU are very significant. For example no OpenCL support, terrible 3D support and no acceleration support.

If the integrated GPU was just slow with respect to 3D that would be one thing but instead we have major regressions in a number of areas. In some cases the CPU will make up for the GPUs short comings but not all the time. There is also a huge power penalty when using the CPU. The impact on users will be highly mixed with those needing good 3D performance likely objecting the most.

Note too 3D means more than games. It is very grating when people focus on gaming for advance GPU usage. I'd be the first to admit though that current AIRs are not targeted at power users. However when other parts of the system improve drastically and the GPU regresses it can be frustrating.

wizard
May 21, 2011, 03:59 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

just to be sure, when you say fly, you mean breeze through CPU intensive things or will it fly in general (as in more noticeable than the C2D in everything)

I think you will notice a difference in just about everything. Web pages will load quicker, etc. I think that this is going to be one sweet machine, and it is a nice one in it's current rendition. This one will encroach even more into the Macbook Pro 13" market, IMHO.

Nope, the next 13" MBP just becomes more powerful. You need to realize that the 13" MBP has a greater capacity for heat dispation and battery. Those two things mean that it can always be considerably faster.

apdg
May 21, 2011, 04:25 AM
You mis important elements of the debate here. Some of the problems with the Intel GPU are very significant. For example no OpenCL support, terrible 3D support and no acceleration support.

If the integrated GPU was just slow with respect to 3D that would be one thing but instead we have major regressions in a number of areas. In some cases the CPU will make up for the GPUs short comings but not all the time. There is also a huge power penalty when using the CPU. The impact on users will be highly mixed with those needing good 3D performance likely objecting the most.

Note too 3D means more than games. It is very grating when people focus on gaming for advance GPU usage. I'd be the first to admit though that current AIRs are not targeted at power users. However when other parts of the system improve drastically and the GPU regresses it can be frustrating.

All true and I agree completely. I was focusing my answer for the user asking about YouTube playback so these details seemed a bit superfluous. Games are certainly not the only job for a GPU and the HD 3000 is indeed a loss in more areas than one. It's a frustrating situation for sure, but it does seem to be an unavoidable one. I have a sneaking suspicion that even some of us who are disappointed by this (and I very much count myself as one of the disappointed) will find the next Air more capable of meeting our needs than we think. It is certainly a loss though, I agree, and some of us will feel it.

mirko.meschini
May 21, 2011, 05:14 AM
17W processors are only for 11,6" i think, for 13,3" they could use 25W processors (2.1 and 2.3GHz dual-core, 3.0/3.2 in turbo-mode, 500MHz Graphics).
The Graphics HD3000 core frequency is 650MHz for 35W/45W processors (actual MacBookPro's), 500MHz for 25W and 350MHz for 17W.

ghostlyorb
May 21, 2011, 06:16 AM
If this is true and they would get some beast mobile processors like these.. then I would put up the cash...

darkleemar
May 21, 2011, 06:33 AM
I used to think the MBA was my way to computing, but I'm having second thought. I think an iMac (Mac mini) plus an iPad is the way to go. The iMac is perfect for long hours of working and makes for a great media hub. The iPad with airplay is great for everything else that is not work related. The MBA lacks the convenience of the iPad and the robustness of the iMac. I just don't see a future of laptops. Die laptop die, along with your outdated optical drive. Who would have thought that the desktop would be making a comeback!
I think macs in general have an outdated optical drive. I personally think macbooks should die. They are slow and overpriced. For 1,199, i can get a alienware m14x, or a sager np8130. With blu-ray. Not an outdated optical player.

TonyDeez
May 21, 2011, 06:38 AM
I think macs in general have an outdated optical drive. I personally think macbooks should die. They are slow and overpriced. For 1,199, i can get a alienware m14x, or a sager np8130. With blu-ray. Not an outdated optical player.

You're in for something.

Here's to our expectations of these beastly little machines. *drinks*

captaincol
May 21, 2011, 06:39 AM
I will be straight on the line for these new AIRs. My RevA transformed my travelling life, but could do with the extra power. I did not buy the last very credible upgrade, and was a bit let down by the lack of BL keyboard. It is a very practical and classy part of the MBA experience, never mind the power hit. Hopefully the new ULVs will make that less of an issue.

That and my ipad tuck beautifully into a 20liter backpack without even noticing.
That is the way to travel.

KnightWRX
May 21, 2011, 07:04 AM
BL keyboard. It is a very [...] classy part of the MBA experience

My laptop does not have class nor does it represent my class. You guys put too much value into inanimate electronics.

Adidas Addict
May 21, 2011, 07:46 AM
I will be straight on the line for these new AIRs. My RevA transformed my travelling life, but could do with the extra power. I did not buy the last very credible upgrade, and was a bit let down by the lack of BL keyboard. It is a very practical and classy part of the MBA experience, never mind the power hit. Hopefully the new ULVs will make that less of an issue.

That and my ipad tuck beautifully into a 20liter backpack without even noticing.
That is the way to travel.

I missed the backlit KB so much I switched back to a 13MBP, never thought it bothered much until I had to do without it. I will skip the next MBA even if the bring the backlight back, as I assume it will have the same god awful screen that's in the current one. (colours and viewing angle are the worst I have ever had from any Apple laptop)

epictempo
May 21, 2011, 08:38 AM
My laptop does not have class nor does it represent my class. You guys put too much value into inanimate electronics.

Classiness is Apple's sole reason for premium pricing; seeing how they're number one now, the world thinks class is worth it.

hcho3
May 21, 2011, 08:59 AM
Yes, It's sandy bridge AIR!

Wait, it has an intel HD3000.

Intel graphic card sucks. I do not want to go forward on CPU and take backward on GPU.

blow45
May 21, 2011, 09:11 AM
My laptop does not have class nor does it represent my class. You guys put too much value into inanimate electronics.

huh? what? these are social conventions, wake up and smell the coffee.

KnightWRX
May 21, 2011, 09:57 AM
Classiness is Apple's sole reason for premium pricing; seeing how they're number one now, the world thinks class is worth it.

Hum. When I bought my MBA, there was no cheaper option on the market that had the same specs (and yes, I consider weight and size specs), so that's just your perception and you put too much value in inanimate electronics.

huh? what? these are social conventions, wake up and smell the coffee.

My goods do not represent my social persona. I do not interact in society based on the goods I own.

2IS
May 21, 2011, 10:06 AM
I currently have the maxed out 2010 13" MBA and I simply love the machine. But...I will say that it only takes a few minutes of a Skype video call to get the fans spinning pretty fast. The new CPU sounds great and I would consider getting an i7-based MBA, though it will be interesting to see how the new CPU/IGP will impact the overall performance. Also, crossing my fingers that Apple includes larger flash drives in the new MBAs.

If heat and fan speed/noise are your primary issues for upgrading to a SB MBA, save yourself $1789 by spending $10 on coolbook for your current MBA. Fan noise for me since running it is bearly above idle levels while skyping.

drewyboy
May 21, 2011, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by apdg
Oh certainly, don't get me wrong, I feel we have some right to expect that a new generation of machine shouldn't involve taking a step backwards in something so central as GPU performance. I just mean that there are some business realities involved here that are forcing a sacrifice and Apple has deemed that the sacrifice will inconvenience a small enough sector of the potential customers of this machine that they're willing to go for it.

Funny how we just agree:-) I have been fighting a lot of people lately explaining to them that decisions are not purely technically, they are dictated by business. After all engineers need the business guys to pay them salaries. You may enjoy reading this (http://bit.ly/laQ6Y8) on this very topic.

These 2 hit the nail. The larger group is the one that wants, at least see's iX.
Lets put on our (average) consumer goggles and look at the specs sheet.

2010 MBA:
Proc: Core2Duo .. thinks to self, didn't i have that on my last laptop like 3 years ago????
GPU: Nvidia 3....... lost interest, turns to sales guy, "hey can this play portal 2?" sales guy:"Yeah, the Nvidiai blah blah blah..." consumer zones out.

2011 MBA:
Proc: Sandy Bridge i5/i7.. thinks to self, that's what everyone's got, i think it's the newest and latest processor. (smiles)
GPU: Intel integrated..... again, lost interest, turns to sales guy, "hey can this play portal 2?" sales guy:"Yeah, kinda.... blah blah blah" consumer zones out. Thinks to self, I heard "Yeah". I'll get it.

This is what consumers think, at least your average joe. So, Proc always will trump in marketing to the large market. They've probably learned their lesson from saying, 2010 focus' on graphics. No body cares! Except us of course. Marketing can only do so much w/ saying they have nvidia graphics, but the latest Intel Core i7 technology w/ hyper-threading (basically giving you a quad core) and turbo boost can crunch the most computationally heavy programs! (See what I just did there... it's just easier)

jclardy
May 21, 2011, 10:27 AM
I really hope they update these soon. It would be awesome if it was during this summer so I could get a free iPod Touch as well :)

My primary use would be iPhone development on the go. My 15" MBP is great, but I am using more and more as a desktop machine hooked up to an external monitor.

My current reason for not buying an 11.6" is twofold, one is the slower CPU and the second is the lack of a high speed port.

An i5 and Thunderbolt would solve both of my concerns. Although I would still be waiting for some kind of combined thunderbolt/firewire 800 external HDD so I could use it with both my machines.

I'm not too worried about the HD3000 integrated graphics as before my 15" MBP I was developing on an Intel GMA 950 white plastic Core Duo macbook, so I think it could handle simple iPhone 2d/3d stuff in the simulator.

striker33
May 21, 2011, 10:53 AM
The biggest problem with HD3000 IGP is that its not supported by Apples hardware acceleration api so flash(youtube) is going to suck.

Yeah but no one with a Mac would use flash based YouTube videos.

HTML5 all the way.

KnightWRX
May 21, 2011, 10:57 AM
Yeah but no one with a Mac would use flash based YouTube videos.

HTML5 all the way.

Really ? I do. Works like a charm on my MBA with the GPU accelerated H.264 decoding provided by my superior nVidia IGP. ;)

AppleScruff1
May 21, 2011, 11:31 AM
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Nope, the next 13" MBP just becomes more powerful. You need to realize that the 13" MBP has a greater capacity for heat dispation and battery. Those two things mean that it can always be considerably faster.

I realize that, but I would venture a guess that sales wise this new model will encroach even more on MBP sales. Currently the Air is a few generations behind on processor technology and it sales quite well. Once it's up to date it may sell even better. And I won't be surprised if the next MBP becomes slimmer and more Air like in appearance, so it will remain a hot running machine as it is today.

asdf542
May 21, 2011, 11:34 AM
Really ? I do. Works like a charm on my MBA with the GPU accelerated H.264 decoding provided by my superior nVidia IGP. ;)Wow, you have one of the three GPU's Apple supports for hardware accelerated video. You must feel special. :rolleyes:

SomeWhores
May 21, 2011, 11:53 AM
The current air won't run Portal 2. At least not for long. It gets WAY too hot after about 5 minutes. I played it on my friends (13" 1.8GHz 4GB RAM) and the CPU got up over 190F after about 5 minutes.

The Air isn't for playing current games. Counter strike, Half life, Portal (the first one) and old games like that run awesome. However current games take too much power and the air isn't efficient enough at cooling to handle current gen games.

The Air will get more of a performance boost from the Sandy Bridge and integrated Intel graphics than a Core Two Duo and Nvidia card. If the intel graphics can power a 17" 1920x1200 resolution they can handle an Airs resolution.

KnightWRX
May 21, 2011, 11:55 AM
The current air won't run Portal 2. At least not for long. It gets WAY too hot after about 5 minutes. I played it on my friends (13" 1.8GHz 4GB RAM) and the CPU got up over 190F after about 5 minutes.

If the computer doesn't shutdown automatically, then it's not over-heating. These things are designed to run at 100% utilisation for extended periods.

kjjnk
May 21, 2011, 12:25 PM
Really ? I do. Works like a charm on my MBA with the GPU accelerated H.264 decoding provided by my superior nVidia IGP. ;)

So what? His superior Intel CPU supports Quick Sync. ;)

apdg
May 21, 2011, 01:36 PM
17W processors are only for 11,6" i think, for 13,3" they could use 25W processors (2.1 and 2.3GHz dual-core, 3.0/3.2 in turbo-mode, 500MHz Graphics).
The Graphics HD3000 core frequency is 650MHz for 35W/45W processors (actual MacBookPro's), 500MHz for 25W and 350MHz for 17W.

I was thinking about this as well. The thermal envelope for the 13" MBA is larger than that of the 11" thanks largely to a slightly bigger fan. Both processor options for each model have to have the same TDP or you'd end up with one version of a particular size with better battery life than the other. A discrepancy that would make the product descriptions untidy (unapple). So unless these are both for the 13 (doubtful, given the TDP of the current machines) they're both for the 11.

I don't know what speeds might become available for the 13 but it seems safe to predict that these will be our choices for the 11 and the 13 will go up a bit from there.

KnightWRX
May 21, 2011, 01:43 PM
So what? His superior Intel CPU supports Quick Sync. ;)

So what ? Apple doesn't support it. ;)

I don't care about hardware features if Apple doesn't provide the framework support for them, because then no one can use them on OS X. Exactly the issue with VDA... it's only supported on 3 models of GPUs, all nVidia. So any vendor using that framework doesn't support many of the currently shipping Macs (all iMacs, MBPs, Mac Pro...).

SomeWhores
May 21, 2011, 01:48 PM
If the computer doesn't shutdown automatically, then it's not over-heating. These things are designed to run at 100% utilisation for extended periods.

I personally wouldn't run them until shut down. That's just me, while I know it doesn't exactly hurt anything I'd rather the fans be on to cool the machine rather than the hardware forcing a shut down.

But you're right, if it doesn't shut down it's not over heated. For most tasks the air is sufficient. Everyone will bitch and moan about losing Nvidia to Intel graphics but... Intel integrated will be completely fine for most users needs (generalizing, but I feel its fair-ish).

KPOM
May 21, 2011, 01:48 PM
Yes, It's sandy bridge AIR!

Wait, it has an intel HD3000.

Intel graphic card sucks. I do not want to go forward on CPU and take backward on GPU.

We've been down this road countless times. Given the constraints of the MacBook Air design, there isn't room for a discrete GPU, and Intel won't license third party chipsets for the Sandy Bridge processors (or any Core iX chips, for that matter).

The primary audience for the MacBook Air isn't the hard core gamer (as it is for the Dell Alienware line). It simply requires adequate graphics for everyday tasks. The older IGP used in the Arrandale chips wasn't adequate, so Apple stuck with Core 2 Duo plus the NVIDIA 320m. That the NVIDIA 320m is capable of light gaming is a bonus.

Anyway, now in mid-2011, the Core 2 Duo is looking extremely aged, since competitors are now 2 generations ahead with the CPU. The HD 3000 in the Sandy Bridge chips, while slower than the NVIDIA 320m, is adequate for everyday use in OS X, so it is logical that Apple with go with the Sandy Bridge CPU.

shanmugam
May 21, 2011, 01:51 PM
it would be awesome if apple able to put 25W 2.0/2.3 Ghz i5 in 11" MBA

MBA 11"/13"/15"?? - 17 to 25 Watts
MB 13"/15"?? - 25 to 35 Watts
MBP 13"/15/17" - 35 to 45 Watts

now the Pro in MBP makes sense - MBP becomes desktop replacement machine

Ivy bridge might have all the answer and intel new direction might help ...

FutureChips.org
May 21, 2011, 01:59 PM
These 2 hit the nail. The larger group is the one that wants, at least see's iX.
Lets put on our (average) consumer goggles and look at the specs sheet.

2010 MBA:
Proc: Core2Duo .. thinks to self, didn't i have that on my last laptop like 3 years ago????
GPU: Nvidia 3....... lost interest, turns to sales guy, "hey can this play portal 2?" sales guy:"Yeah, the Nvidiai blah blah blah..." consumer zones out.

2011 MBA:
Proc: Sandy Bridge i5/i7.. thinks to self, that's what everyone's got, i think it's the newest and latest processor. (smiles)
GPU: Intel integrated..... again, lost interest, turns to sales guy, "hey can this play portal 2?" sales guy:"Yeah, kinda.... blah blah blah" consumer zones out. Thinks to self, I heard "Yeah". I'll get it.

This is what consumers think, at least your average joe. So, Proc always will trump in marketing to the large market. They've probably learned their lesson from saying, 2010 focus' on graphics. No body cares! Except us of course. Marketing can only do so much w/ saying they have nvidia graphics, but the latest Intel Core i7 technology w/ hyper-threading (basically giving you a quad core) and turbo boost can crunch the most computationally heavy programs! (See what I just did there... it's just easier)

On the dot! I used to be all religious about technology and used think of some companies as evil, etc. This changed once I was exposed to reality at work. This is the reality. You can have the best product and fail if you can't market it, and vice-versa. There is a funny story a professor once told me (don't ask for a reference, its just in my memory):

This happened >50 years ago.

A guy walked into a board meeting of Ford motor company: "I have designed this small radio which we can fit in a car. If we put this, people can play music on while they drive."

Random board member: We are in the business of making cars, we don't make toys.

Henry Ford: Wrong! we are not in the business of making cars, we are in the business of making money.

To me, this sums it all up :-)

twoodcc
May 21, 2011, 02:23 PM
sound great! the macbook air needs a processor upgrade big time! maybe announced at wwdc?

mirko.meschini
May 21, 2011, 02:52 PM
I was thinking about this as well. The thermal envelope for the 13" MBA is larger than that of the 11" thanks largely to a slightly bigger fan. Both processor options for each model have to have the same TDP or you'd end up with one version of a particular size with better battery life than the other. A discrepancy that would make the product descriptions untidy (unapple). So unless these are both for the 13 (doubtful, given the TDP of the current machines) they're both for the 11.

I don't know what speeds might become available for the 13 but it seems safe to predict that these will be our choices for the 11 and the 13 will go up a bit from there.

I think this because now 11,6" runs with 10W processors + 12W 320M (a little downclocked) so about 20W of total power, the 17W processors are ok with an increased battery life. For 13,3" they use 17W + 12W about 27-29W, so 25W processors are suitable. 1.4-1.6GHz i5/i7 for 11,6" and 2.1-2.3GHz i7 for 13".

mirko.meschini
May 21, 2011, 03:01 PM
And about GPU acceleration i think it's a flop, it doesn't work in all that's not supported by Apple, it doesn't work in all new stuff, it never works! I have a 9400+9600GT on my MacBookPro, and Youtube video playback runs better with the HTML5/WebM cpu-only version. XBMC is gpu accelerated with VDPAU on my nVidia GPU, but with the 9400m it runs not so well with 1080p stuff, and 9600GT consumes more power, so i don't know if it's more energy efficient an i5/i7 Sandy Bridge processor with software decoding, or a Core 2 Duo + 320M with hardware decoding.

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 03:27 PM
"the Core 2 Duo is looking extremely aged, since competitors are now 2 generations ahead with the CPU."

Let's be realistic here, Mr. Sensational. Core 2 Duo is one generation behind.

Shoey Peachew
May 21, 2011, 03:29 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



You mis important elements of the debate here. Some of the problems with the Intel GPU are very significant. For example no OpenCL support, terrible 3D support and no acceleration support.

If the integrated GPU was just slow with respect to 3D that would be one thing but instead we have major regressions in a number of areas. In some cases the CPU will make up for the GPUs short comings but not all the time. There is also a huge power penalty when using the CPU. The impact on users will be highly mixed with those needing good 3D performance likely objecting the most.

Note too 3D means more than games. It is very grating when people focus on gaming for advance GPU usage. I'd be the first to admit though that current AIRs are not targeted at power users. However when other parts of the system improve drastically and the GPU regresses it can be frustrating.

Every time, ever since I've been a member here, I get excited when Apple releases a new laptop, but there's always something that prevents me from buying my first Apple computer. When I web browse I find myself viewing a lot of YouTube content and flash video from other websites. Naturally, I always choose the best quality whenever I watch videos and I wouldn't like it if my computer struggled with playback issues.

:apple: Keeping my hopes high and fingers crossed! :apple:

flopticalcube
May 21, 2011, 03:32 PM
Let's be realistic here, Mr. Sensational. Core 2 Duo is one generation behind.

...Core/Core 2...Nehalem/Westmere...Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge... Two generations.

apdg
May 21, 2011, 03:35 PM
Let's be realistic here, Mr. Sensational. Core 2 Duo is one generation behind.

He's not being sensational. C2D is indeed two generations behind. Sandy Bridge is the second generation of the i3/i5/i7 processors. Significantly more powerful than the originals.

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 04:16 PM
He's not being sensational. C2D is indeed two generations behind. Sandy Bridge is the second generation of the i3/i5/i7 processors. Significantly more powerful than the originals.

7th Generation CPU's - Pentium 4

8th Gen - Intel Core 2

9th Gen - Intel Core i3, Intel Core i5, Intel Core i7, AMD Phenom II...THEN, still in this generation, is Sandy Bridge.

Significant power gains does not automatically make it two generations. You can squabble all you want but I bet in 50 years when they are writing this history books on tech... They are going to follow this generational mode, not yours. Technically neither is wrong, it's a loose translation at this point.

The context of the guys remarks earlier made his statement sensational (and irrational as far as I'm concerned).

AidenShaw
May 21, 2011, 04:42 PM
9th Gen - Intel Core i3, Intel Core i5, Intel Core i7, AMD Phenom II...THEN, still in this generation, is Sandy Bridge.

Intel considers it a new generation, though....

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 05:04 PM
Intel considers it a new generation, though....

Of course they do, it sounds a lot faster, and a lot better. It's clever marketing, they could care less how it's phrased. People hear second generation and they jump on it.

Capt Underpants
May 21, 2011, 05:23 PM
Of course they do, it sounds a lot faster, and a lot better. It's clever marketing, they could care less how it's phrased. People hear second generation and they jump on it.

How can you ignore the facts when they're staring you right in the face? Core 2 is indeed two generations behind. From wikipedia:

AppleDroid
May 21, 2011, 05:26 PM
How can you ignore the facts when they're staring you right in the face? Core 2 is indeed two generations behind. From wikipedia:

Because! Opinion > Facts! ;)

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 05:30 PM
How can you ignore the facts when they're staring you right in the face? Core 2 is indeed two generations behind. From wikipedia:

You're right, I concede, wikipedia is infallible....cough

Capt Underpants
May 21, 2011, 05:32 PM
You're right, I concede, wikipedia is infallible....cough

Not infallible, but in this case 100% accurate.

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 05:39 PM
Not infallible, but in this case 100% accurate.

It's interpretive, from your 100% accurate source wikipedia...

"CPU generations are not strict: each generation is roughly marked by significantly improved or commercially successful processor microarchitecture designs."

As I said in an early post, it's a translation (i.e. interpretive). The way I have learned it is not processor release by name but architecture. When the nm architecture doubles you have entered a new generation. Processor companies may be calling them new generations, and because "generation" has no set definition, they can do that. It is not technically wrong but different from my interpretation (the original, I might add) of designating CPU generations. When we reach ivy bridge, we will be two generations behind.

kjjnk
May 21, 2011, 05:43 PM
So what ? Apple doesn't support it. ;)

I don't care about hardware features if Apple doesn't provide the framework support for them, because then no one can use them on OS X. Exactly the issue with VDA... it's only supported on 3 models of GPUs, all nVidia. So any vendor using that framework doesn't support many of the currently shipping Macs (all iMacs, MBPs, Mac Pro...).

Oh they don't? ;)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/4

Only a matter of time before they open the API.

flopticalcube
May 21, 2011, 05:46 PM
It's interpretive, from your 100% accurate source wikipedia...

"CPU generations are not strict: each generation is roughly marked by significantly improved or commercially successful processor microarchitecture designs."

As I said in an early post, it's a translation (i.e. interpretive). The way I have learned it is not processor release by name but architecture. When the nm architecture doubles you have entered a new generation. Processor companies may be calling them new generations, and because "generation" has no set definition, they can do that. It is not technically wrong but different from my interpretation (the original, I might add) of designating CPU generations. When we reach ivy bridge, we will be two generations behind.

I would say the microarchitecture is more of a generational influence than the manufacturing process. It is hard to argue that it's not at least 1.5 generations behind and saying it's two is hardly sensationalist.

Capt Underpants
May 21, 2011, 05:47 PM
It's interpretive, from your 100% accurate source wikipedia...

"CPU generations are not strict: each generation is roughly marked by significantly improved or commercially successful processor microarchitecture designs."

As I said in an early post, it's a translation (i.e. interpretive). The way I have learned it is not processor release by name but architecture. When the nm architecture doubles you have entered a new generation. Processor companies may be calling them new generations, and because "generation" has no set definition, they can do that. It is not technically wrong but different from my interpretation (the original, I might add) of designating CPU generations. When we reach ivy bridge, we will be two generations behind.

I understand that it's difficult for you to accept that your Core 2 Duo is long in tooth. But it's the truth. By your definition the Northwood Pentium 4's are only 'two generations' old.

KPOM
May 21, 2011, 05:49 PM
Let's be realistic here, Mr. Sensational. Core 2 Duo is one generation behind.

As others have mentioned, Sandy Bridge is the 3rd iteration of the Core iX series (Nehalem ==> Westmere ==> Sandy Bridge). It is two "tocks" removed from Penryn on Intel's product cycle.

In any case, the first "Core 2 Duos" came out in July 2006. The microarchitecture is now 5 years old, and is getting long in the tooth. Granted, it was "current" as late as November 2008, but the Sandy Bridge Core i5/i7 offer many features (hyperthreading and turbo boost being the most significant, but also things like AES new instructions and AVX) not present in the Penryn chips.

Eidorian
May 21, 2011, 05:50 PM
Do we consider Penryn a generation? :rolleyes:

cirus
May 21, 2011, 06:40 PM
Oh they don't? ;)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/4

Only a matter of time before they open the API.

Only Facetime is supported by OSX. And its still using a ridiculously high amount of resources (50-100%). I would say that it is not supported properly.

It's interpretive, from your 100% accurate source wikipedia...

"CPU generations are not strict: each generation is roughly marked by significantly improved or commercially successful processor microarchitecture designs."

As I said in an early post, it's a translation (i.e. interpretive). The way I have learned it is not processor release by name but architecture. When the nm architecture doubles you have entered a new generation. Processor companies may be calling them new generations, and because "generation" has no set definition, they can do that. It is not technically wrong but different from my interpretation (the original, I might add) of designating CPU generations. When we reach ivy bridge, we will be two generations behind.

Intel lists it as the second generation core i family. I get what you are saying but Nelham/Westmere was listed under one generation. It may be completely arbitrary but i'll take their word over yours any day.

kjjnk
May 21, 2011, 06:42 PM
Only Facetime is supported by OSX. And its still using a ridiculously high amount of resources (50-100%). I would say that it is not supported properly.


Doesn't matter, it's still supported. You stated nothing different than what the article said. :rolleyes:

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 06:50 PM
I would say the microarchitecture is more of a generational influence than the manufacturing process. It is hard to argue that it's not at least 1.5 generations behind and saying it's two is hardly sensationalist.

I would agree with 1.5 but two is more than far reaching by my definition. People can whine all they want, but microarchitecture is like you said, a generational influence, which is what we are talking about, generational. Saying two alone isn't sensationalist, but in the context he was using it; for his overarching claim "Apple uses outdated technology", it was sensational.

cirus
May 21, 2011, 06:51 PM
Doesn't matter, it's still supported. You stated nothing different than what the article said. :rolleyes:

Poorly supported on one program is 'supported' (technically) but really, its grasping at straws to say that quicksync is integrated into OSX. I did say it was supported :confused: I just said that it was not supported properly or fully. And yes it is NOT supported for anything other than facetime.

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 06:52 PM
Only Facetime is supported by OSX. And its still using a ridiculously high amount of resources (50-100%). I would say that it is not supported properly.



Intel lists it as the second generation core i family. I get what you are saying but Nelham/Westmere was listed under one generation. It may be completely arbitrary but i'll take their word over yours any day.

Good idea, take the word of a corporate marketing campaign over that of an MIT Computer Science/Engineer Major....probably a good choice.

AppleScruff1
May 21, 2011, 06:52 PM
It's interpretive, from your 100% accurate source wikipedia...

"CPU generations are not strict: each generation is roughly marked by significantly improved or commercially successful processor microarchitecture designs."

As I said in an early post, it's a translation (i.e. interpretive). The way I have learned it is not processor release by name but architecture. When the nm architecture doubles you have entered a new generation. Processor companies may be calling them new generations, and because "generation" has no set definition, they can do that. It is not technically wrong but different from my interpretation (the original, I might add) of designating CPU generations. When we reach ivy bridge, we will be two generations behind.

Who cares what Intel says. The important thing is what does Steve say?

kjjnk
May 21, 2011, 07:03 PM
Poorly supported on one program is 'supported' (technically) but really, its grasping at straws to say that quicksync is integrated into OSX. I did say it was supported :confused: I just said that it was not supported properly or fully. And yes it is NOT supported for anything other than facetime.

Hence why I said it won't be long until they open the API. :rolleyes:

You said nothing the article I posted didn't already say.

cirus
May 21, 2011, 07:04 PM
7th Generation CPU's - Pentium 4

8th Gen - Intel Core 2

9th Gen - Intel Core i3, Intel Core i5, Intel Core i7, AMD Phenom II...THEN, still in this generation, is Sandy Bridge.

Significant power gains does not automatically make it two generations. You can squabble all you want but I bet in 50 years when they are writing this history books on tech... They are going to follow this generational mode, not yours. Technically neither is wrong, it's a loose translation at this point.

The context of the guys remarks earlier made his statement sensational (and irrational as far as I'm concerned).

Ugh, how can you list phenom II in the same generation as Sandy Bridge, Did you see the benchmarks?

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/ALU-Performance-SiSoftware-Sandra-2010-Pro-ALU,2408.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Cinebench-11.5-Multi-threaded,2407.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Audio-Encoding-iTunes-9.0.3.15-wav-to-aac-Audio,2422.html
In those charts you see even pentium, core 2 duo, and core 2 quad beating of matching AMD phenom 2 processors (itunes encoding). Similar for the other benchmarks.
Intel beats AMD badly. The two are definitely not in the same class.

ratzzo
May 21, 2011, 08:19 PM
This possible option will continue to add to the portability and simplicity of the Air line, increased battery life, high as it was already, will blow other manufacturer's performance away. Ideal for a decent low demanding user, as clearly it won't be a powerhouse in comparison to, say, the MBPs.

kdimitt
May 21, 2011, 08:39 PM
Ugh, how can you list phenom II in the same generation as Sandy Bridge, Did you see the benchmarks?

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/ALU-Performance-SiSoftware-Sandra-2010-Pro-ALU,2408.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Cinebench-11.5-Multi-threaded,2407.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Audio-Encoding-iTunes-9.0.3.15-wav-to-aac-Audio,2422.html
In those charts you see even pentium, core 2 duo, and core 2 quad beating of matching AMD phenom 2 processors (itunes encoding). Similar for the other benchmarks.
Intel beats AMD badly. The two are definitely not in the same class.

Yes, they are. I don't care if they performed badly, If you have qualms with AMD, more power to ya. But their performance compared to Intel's processor has nothing to do with the generation. As the other user pointed out earlier, there is a difference between manufacturing generation and the microarchitectual generation.

shanmugam
May 21, 2011, 08:55 PM
what is the chance 25watts CPU goes into MacBook as well?

iRun26.2
May 21, 2011, 09:44 PM
what is the chance 25watts CPU goes into MacBook as well?

Into the 13.3" MBA, yes.

Capt Underpants
May 21, 2011, 10:01 PM
what is the chance 25watts CPU goes into MacBook as well?

It's possible depending on how far Apple takes the supposed 2012 Macbook Pro redesign -- especially in the 13" model.

Fishcake21
May 21, 2011, 10:02 PM
Pretty much its going to use the integrateds graphics, which is a good thing, benchmark wise it will probably lost a few frames, maybe up to 5-7 on open gl games, and probably more with directx when using bootcamp.

cleric
May 22, 2011, 02:56 AM
youtube has a html5 version available for a very long time

Not ready for the prime time in my experience still buggy and there are many others Hulu also when an official version of VLC is out with hardware acceleration for Mac I know I'd rather have the 320M.

CQd44
May 22, 2011, 03:53 AM
Intel considers it a new generation, though....

gotta ask...

do you use comic sans because it brings a smile to anyone's face, no matter the context?

MorphingDragon
May 22, 2011, 04:00 AM
gotta ask...

do you use comic sans because it brings a smile to anyone's face, no matter the context?

You know what?

Comic Sans pales in comparison to IE9 in terms of bringing ironic smiles to people's faces.

CQd44
May 22, 2011, 04:06 AM
You know what?

Comic Sans pales in comparison to IE9 in terms of bringing ironic smiles to people's faces.

But Comic Sans is so friendly!

cirus
May 22, 2011, 08:29 AM
Yes, they are. I don't care if they performed badly, If you have qualms with AMD, more power to ya. But their performance compared to Intel's processor has nothing to do with the generation. As the other user pointed out earlier, there is a difference between manufacturing generation and the microarchitectual generation.

Yes, but Intel is justified in calling them the next generation if they have such a performance gain compared to the older processors.

AidenShaw
May 22, 2011, 08:31 AM
gotta ask...

do you use comic sans because it brings a smile to anyone's face, no matter the context?

No, I use it because I like sans-serif fonts, and the numberals in Comic Sans are slightly taller than the letters - makes it easier to read mixed letter/number stuff.

kdimitt
May 22, 2011, 09:13 AM
Yes, but Intel is justified in calling them the next generation if they have such a performance gain compared to the older processors.

They can call them a new generation if they want! It doesn't matter! Are you reading what I say at all? Manufacturing generations and microarchitectural generations are different! From a historical technological point of view, it's not two generations. From Intel's, marketing/production's point of view, it's a new generation of processor. There is a difference, and because generation has no set meaning they call it that...Do you get it now?

shanmugam
May 22, 2011, 09:35 AM
It's possible depending on how far Apple takes the supposed 2012 Macbook Pro redesign -- especially in the 13" model.

I was referring to the white macbook, MBP 13" can be considered also.

what is the hold up with white macbook? even the 13" MBP slapped with intel IGP.

WWDC upgrades/announcements? or apple is already moving in 15Watts middle ground like the Intel future road map?

from what i heard, Intel is at lest two generations away on better IGP (I know is is more or less equal to nVidia 320M, it is ok for now but in 12 to 18 months)

Intel IGP is under clocked once you go below 35 watts

fmaxwell
May 22, 2011, 10:17 AM
For when you want a computer that's only slightly faster than your cell phone. 1.2Ghz dual core Samsung Galaxy S II anyone?

1. Your level of ignorance is astounding. You're completely, and totally, wrong.

2. The average smartphone has more computing power than 90% of the public needs, so even if your statement were true, it would not make the MacBook Air with those new CPUs undesirable. If you weren't trying to use your computer's clock speed to compensate for your undersized *****, you would realize that what people actually need is long battery life, a good quality screen, nice keyboard, and responsive trackpad.

3. It's a laptop for grown-ups, not game console for tweens who want a portable version of a Playstation 3.

Grow up.

fmaxwell
May 22, 2011, 10:30 AM
My goods do not represent my social persona. I do not interact in society based on the goods I own.

Yes, you do. Show up at an important meeting wearing overalls and sporting a pink Acer netbook and tell me that the goods you own (the overalls and the pink Acer netbook) didn't affect your social interactions.

KPOM
May 22, 2011, 11:12 AM
Do we consider Penryn a generation? :rolleyes:

No. Penryn was a die shrink. However, Nehalem was a new microarchitecture, as is Sandy Bridge. That both Nehalem and Sandy Bridge are called Core i3/i5/i7 is purely a marketing decision by Intel. They still use the Celeron name for some of their chips, even though they are based on Nehalem. Does that mean that a "Celeron" from 2002 is the "same generation" as a Celeron in a budget desktop today? Of course not.

gitome99
May 22, 2011, 11:14 AM
thank you!
It's probably going to lose the nVidia 320M, however, so I'm not sure it's all good for games

shanmugam
May 22, 2011, 11:26 AM
No. Penryn was a die shrink. However, Nehalem was a new microarchitecture, as is Sandy Bridge. That both Nehalem and Sandy Bridge are called Core i3/i5/i7 is purely a marketing decision by Intel. They still use the Celeron name for some of their chips, even though they are based on Nehalem. Does that mean that a "Celeron" from 2002 is the "same generation" as a Celeron in a budget desktop today? Of course not.

Sandy Bridge also die shrink (45nm to 32nm) right? :confused:

2nd Gen parts has 2 in front like i5 2410 (Sandy Bridge).

tick tock tick tock ...

KnightWRX
May 22, 2011, 11:51 AM
Yes, you do. Show up at an important meeting wearing overalls and sporting a pink Acer netbook and tell me that the goods you own (the overalls and the pink Acer netbook) didn't affect your social interactions.

I always show up to meetings at my workplace, even the important ones, in jeans (25$ jeans, not branded) and a t-shirt (all my t-shirts come from the 9$ rack). I never bring a laptop, I just take mental notes.

So I don't really see your point.

You do realise not everyone places as much importance in physical goods that you seem to right ?

flopticalcube
May 22, 2011, 12:01 PM
No. Penryn was a die shrink. However, Nehalem was a new microarchitecture, as is Sandy Bridge. That both Nehalem and Sandy Bridge are called Core i3/i5/i7 is purely a marketing decision by Intel. They still use the Celeron name for some of their chips, even though they are based on Nehalem. Does that mean that a "Celeron" from 2002 is the "same generation" as a Celeron in a budget desktop today? Of course not.

He was being sarcastic, hence the eye roll at the end.

Sandy Bridge also die shrink (45nm to 32nm) right? :confused:

2nd Gen parts has 2 in front like i5 2410 (Sandy Bridge).

tick tock tick tock ...

Ivy Bridge is the die shrink of Sandy Bridge ... to 22nm. Sandy Bridge adopted the Westmere die shrink from Nehalem of 32nm.

KPOM
May 22, 2011, 12:30 PM
thank you!
It's probably going to lose the nVidia 320M, however, so I'm not sure it's all good for games

There's no "probably" about it. NVIDIA isn't licensed to pair the 320m with any chip past the Core 2 Duo. The next MacBook Air will have Sandy Bridge and the HD 3000 integrated graphics chip.

jonnysods
May 22, 2011, 12:35 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Man, it's a toss up between this new MBA and the current 13" mbp. I'm going to have to choose the mbp, just because of hard drive space (I need 600gb). I hate the optical drive, love the screen rez on the MBA....

Sigh. If the mbp didn't have such a low rez I wouldn't have any hesitation pulling the trigger. I will anyways, but I'm sad it's not a bto

natethomas1
May 23, 2011, 01:39 PM
I always show up to meetings at my workplace, even the important ones, in jeans (25$ jeans, not branded) and a t-shirt (all my t-shirts come from the 9$ rack). I never bring a laptop, I just take mental notes.

So I don't really see your point.

You do realise not everyone places as much importance in physical goods that you seem to right ?

That's pretty inaccurate. Literally everyone makes snap decisions based on the physical evidence presented to them. For example, when we are driving and we see red octagons on the side of the road, we will invariably assume those are stop signs, regardless of the words written on them. Likewise, if a person shows up to a multi-million dollar business meeting in jean cut-offs and a sleeveless shirt, EVERYONE else at the table will have certain automatic responses to the visual data. The human mind has been trained to work like this since we came down from the trees and had to start dealing with predators.

Of course, people can and will correct their initial snap judgments, but A) not all the time, and B) even after correction, those snap judgments tend to color future behavior.

Um. Also, I really want the upcoming refresh of the Air. Take my gpu and give me cpu. I'll deal with it.

KnightWRX
May 23, 2011, 01:56 PM
That's pretty inaccurate. Literally everyone makes snap decisions based on the physical evidence presented to them. For example, when we are driving and we see red octagons on the side of the road, we will invariably assume those are stop signs, regardless of the words written on them. Likewise, if a person shows up to a multi-million dollar business meeting in jean cut-offs and a sleeveless shirt, EVERYONE else at the table will have certain automatic responses to the visual data. The human mind has been trained to work like this since we came down from the trees and had to start dealing with predators.

Of course, people can and will correct their initial snap judgments, but A) not all the time, and B) even after correction, those snap judgments tend to color future behavior.

Again guys, if you're materialistic, deal with it yourself, don't project on the whole world. There is no human mind or everyone at work here.

AidenShaw
May 23, 2011, 02:01 PM
Again guys, if you're materialistic, deal with it yourself, don't project on the whole world. There is no human mind or everyone at work here.

Are you implying that not everyone spends the day camped out near an electrical outlet at Starbucks so that everyone can see the glowing fruit logo on his laptop?

cirus
May 23, 2011, 03:04 PM
They can call them a new generation if they want! It doesn't matter! Are you reading what I say at all? Manufacturing generations and microarchitectural generations are different! From a historical technological point of view, it's not two generations. From Intel's, marketing/production's point of view, it's a new generation of processor. There is a difference, and because generation has no set meaning they call it that...Do you get it now?

I fail to see your point. I understand what you are saying but it seems flawed somehow. First Sandy Bridge uses a different socket, ring bus, fully integrated graphics (that are twice as fast as the previous core i processors), etc. and are very different from what was available previously. This does matter because this defines a generation. Why is a Pentium 4 different compared to a core 2 duo?

Second, it does matter what something is called. Language is created through a common agreement on words. If the majority agree that a certain word has a certain meaning then the word gains that meaning (like all sorts of slang). Society agrees that this word denotes this and so that word means that.

kdimitt
May 24, 2011, 06:04 PM
I fail to see your point. I understand what you are saying but it seems flawed somehow. First Sandy Bridge uses a different socket, ring bus, fully integrated graphics (that are twice as fast as the previous core i processors), etc. and are very different from what was available previously. This does matter because this defines a generation. Why is a Pentium 4 different compared to a core 2 duo?

Second, it does matter what something is called. Language is created through a common agreement on words. If the majority agree that a certain word has a certain meaning then the word gains that meaning (like all sorts of slang). Society agrees that this word denotes this and so that word means that.

It may appear to hold matter to the user or consumer, but a producer does not have to oblige those concerns. Look at food for example, there are hundreds of products labeled as 100% Natural, but that isn't the 100% truth. Because 100% Natural is (or at least wasn't for a long time) not regulated by the FDA, producers can call it what they want. This is the exact same thing that Intel and AMD and everyone has done.

Generation was used to describe the technological advancements of CPU's, now its used more in conjunction with manufacturing releases (yes they use it generally with significant performance increases but not by the same standard it used to be measured, the double of nm architecture). What defines a generation to you, and apparently most of this blog (which in no way is a certain factor of a majority) feel that a generation can be defined by subsequent processor releases coupled with significant performance increases. That's what Intel and other brands have fed you and you have adopted it, so be it. That makes neither you or myself wrong, you have adopted a slang form of generation (as your use was not the first) and I still believe in using the term 'generation' in the old context. I say at this point we agree to disagree, because neither of us is right or wrong.

OatmealRocks
May 26, 2011, 01:35 PM
Can we keep on track with the discussion. Geezz. I for one will update my MBP i5 when/if MBA gets an i5.

caspersoong
May 27, 2011, 07:04 AM
Nice processors. Hope to get one MBA.