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MacRumors
May 24, 2011, 09:21 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/24/no-ios-5-for-iphone-3gs/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/iphone_3gs_oblique.jpg


Eldar Murtazin, editor-in-chief of Russian mobile phone blog Mobile-Review today reported in a Tweet (http://twitter.com/eldarmurtazin/status/72934581380198400) (via MacStories (http://www.macstories.net/news/rumor-iphone-3gs-wont-get-ios-5/)) that iOS 5 will not be compatible with the iPhone 3GS, limiting the next-generation operating system to the current iPhone and of course new models yet to come as far as the iPhone is concerned.Just one comment. Apple iPhone 3Gs wont be upgradable to iOS 5.x. iPhone 4 will.The information is unverified and it is unclear from where Murtazin obtained the information, but he does have a very solid reputation in the mobile phone rumor community. Murtazin does not, however, frequently report on Apple's plans.

iOS 4.0 was released last June (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/21/apple-releases-ios-4-with-multitasking-ibooks-and-more/) with compatibility for the iPhone 3G, 3GS, and 4, although some of the iOS 4 features were not available on the older hardware. That fragmentation continued until Apple finally discontinued support for iPhone 3G updates with the release of iOS 4.3 earlier this year, leaving that device at a maximum operating system version of iOS 4.2.1.

Limiting iOS 5 to a minimum of iPhone 4 hardware would be a significant shift toward high-end hardware requirements, particularly considering that Apple still sells the iPhone 3GS. iOS 5 has, however, been reported to be a significant reworking of the company's mobile operating system, and Apple may simply feel that only the latest hardware (relatively speaking) will offer a satisfactory experience.

Article Link: No iOS 5 for iPhone 3GS? (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/24/no-ios-5-for-iphone-3gs/)



miles01110
May 24, 2011, 09:22 AM
Shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:24 AM
Shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.

Not really. iOS devices thus far have got their release OS + 2.

MacDawg
May 24, 2011, 09:24 AM
Would be a big step to orphan all but the iP4
Fairly significant move

tmofee
May 24, 2011, 09:25 AM
kind of expected. my guessing is you'll have a 4S and probably an upgraded 3GS of some description with upgraded insides/cameras?

Hellhammer
May 24, 2011, 09:26 AM
Shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.

The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

German
May 24, 2011, 09:27 AM
They are still selling the 3Gs.
So they should offer at least security updates, if that rumor will be true.

JASApplications
May 24, 2011, 09:28 AM
Would be a big mistake if they did. Tons of people still have a 3Gs including myself :) And it would be ridiculous if they're selling a phone that can't run the latest software!

Ambrose Chapel
May 24, 2011, 09:28 AM
Given how slow the iPhone 3G runs under iOS 4, I can't say I'm surprised. I bet iOS 5 will have optimizations for the A-class processors, and the A4 will be the cutoff.

Gilj
May 24, 2011, 09:28 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

baryon
May 24, 2011, 09:28 AM
My iPod Touch 2nd Gen was much faster when I bought it than it is now. Maybe if Apple would not have allowed whichever iOS version I currently have on it to be updatable to the 2nd Gen Touch, then I would have been left with a much faster device.

I'm sure people would prefer a faster iPhone rather than a sluggish one that can do 2-3 more things.

decimortis
May 24, 2011, 09:29 AM
With my 3GS getting kicked in the balls by iOS 4.death, I wouldn't consider installing iOS 5 even if I could.

D.

miles01110
May 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous.
Why is it ridiculous? They're still selling the iPod Classic which doesn't have any version of iOS. Never mind the hardware doesn't support the OS; because that's probably the same issue in this case.

Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months.
...for a fraction of the price. People buying the 3GS already know they are buying an outdated phone in the first place.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

I agree. It's forced obsolence, nothing more. If an ip4 can handle iOS5, so can a 3GS. Their processors are from the same family of ARM cores and they share the same GPU IIRC. That's different than the comparatively slow 3G to 3GS.

...for a fraction of the price. People buying the 3GS already know they are buying an outdated phone in the first place.

Hardware yes. Last I checked, they had iOS 4 just like iphone 4 users.

johnnymg
May 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at all.

iphone 3GS will likely be discontinued with the release of the next phone anyway. Don't get stuck on the past folks.

JohnG

BlakeLiebenTH
May 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
Would be a big step to orphan all but the iP4
Fairly significant move

Not really. Support for the original iPhone lasted until 3.0, support for the 3G basically stopped with 4.0, so why would we expect the 3GS to get special treatment?

We all knew this was going to happen.

Xero910
May 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
Given how slow the iPhone 3G runs under iOS 4, I can't say I'm surprised. I bet iOS 5 will have optimizations for the A-class processors, and the A4 will be the cutoff.Exactly. Nailed it.

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
My iPod Touch 2nd Gen was much faster when I bought it than it is now. Maybe if Apple would not have allowed whichever iOS version I currently have on it to be updatable to the 2nd Gen Touch, then I would have been left with a much faster device.

I'm sure people would prefer a faster iPhone rather than a sluggish one that can do 2-3 more things.

But then you get the issue of developers only creating for the newest OS release. It's not good for anyone. Stay on older, faster firmware and be restricted with app selection or upgrade to a modern, slower firmware but at least be able to have full app access.

yetanotherdave
May 24, 2011, 09:31 AM
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

Right, the 3G got iOS 4, and people complained non stop about performance. Looks like they are trying to avoid a repeat of this.

We're not used to it in the fairly mature hardware world of laptops and desktops, where gains is software are significant, but hardware doesn't change too much. But at the moment, mobile hardware capabilities and development is outpacing software development. We can't expect the same amount of OS backward compatibility on mobile devices.

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:32 AM
Not really. Support for the original iPhone lasted until 3.0, support for the 3G basically stopped with 4.0, so why would we expect the 3GS to get special treatment?

We all knew this was going to happen.

Original iPhone went to 3.1.3 giving it nearly three years of life. The 3G got nearly two years going to 4.2.1.

fabian9
May 24, 2011, 09:32 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

I agree. It's forced obsolence, nothing more. If an ip4 can handle iOS5, so can a 3GS. Their processors are from the same family of ARM cores and they share the same GPU IIRC. That's different than the comparatively slow 3G to 3GS.

...for a fraction of the price. People buying the 3GS already know they are buying an outdated phone in the first place.

Hardware yes. Last I checked, they had 4.3.2 just like iphone 4 users.

Not being able to install the latest and greatest version of an operating system does not make a product obsolete...

It still does everything and more than it did when it was purchased, so there really is no need to complain.

Capt Underpants
May 24, 2011, 09:32 AM
Laziness and planned obsolescence on Apple's part. It's going to piss a lot of people off.

talkingfuture
May 24, 2011, 09:32 AM
I was hoping I would get one more update out of my 3GS. This must mean a major update though rather than an attempt to force us into new hardware.

coder12
May 24, 2011, 09:33 AM
Doubtful, after all--they're still selling the 3GS.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 24, 2011, 09:34 AM
Why is it ridiculous? They're still selling the iPod Classic which doesn't have any version of iOS. Never mind the hardware doesn't support the OS; because that's probably the same issue in this case.


...for a fraction of the price. People buying the 3GS already know they are buying an outdated phone in the first place.

Exactly.

And people are well aware of the iOS life cycle by now.

3GS was released 2 years back. They have supported the phone enough and people should be done with it.

You can still buy some very old laptops which cannot run Vista. So this, is pretty OK in my opinion.

Skika
May 24, 2011, 09:35 AM
And nothing of value was lost that day

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:35 AM
Right, the 3G got iOS 4, and people complained non stop about performance. Looks like they are trying to avoid a repeat of this.

We're not used to it in the fairly mature hardware world of laptops and desktops, where gains is software are significant, but hardware doesn't change too much. But at the moment, mobile hardware capabilities and development is outpacing software development. We can't expect the same amount of OS backward compatibility on mobile devices.

Remember Apple stated that the original iPhone wasn't powerful enough to run iOS 4. Yet the iPhone 3G could, despite being almost identical in hardware. 400Mhz CPU, 128MB RAM etc. The 3GS was an actual hardware upgrade.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 09:36 AM
Right, the 3G got iOS 4, and people complained non stop about performance. Looks like they are trying to avoid a repeat of this.

We're not used to it in the fairly mature hardware world of laptops and desktops, where gains is software are significant, but hardware doesn't change too much. But at the moment, mobile hardware capabilities and development is outpacing software development. We can't expect the same amount of OS backward compatibility on mobile devices.

But performance won't be an issue. The cores are very similar in performance. One is a 600 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core and the other is ~800 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core.

Not being able to install the later an greatest version of an operating system does not make a product obsolete...

It still does everything and more than it did when it was purchased, so there really is no need to complain.

In this case, it does. The operating system is the product. Sure the hardware is nice, but it's just a conduit for the real product, iOS. It's what gets people to buy apps and make Apple revenue after the device is sold.

Warbrain
May 24, 2011, 09:38 AM
This isn't really much of a surprise. It's likely because of the amount of memory it has.

Popeye206
May 24, 2011, 09:39 AM
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

What's the big deal? It will be just like many Android Phones?

Really... as long as iOS 4 keeps getting updated (like they've done with MacOSX 10.5 even though 10.6 is most current) it should be fine. The iPhone3Gs people will still have a great phone.... but we must move forward and the new processors are so much faster and I'm sure the next iPhone will be much faster than the iPhone4.

Actually... maybe they can make iOS4 even better for the 3Gs people and get rid of the lags completely.

alectheking
May 24, 2011, 09:39 AM
If true, I have some friends who are gonna be pretty pissed. What next, my VZW iPhone gonna get skipped too? Still sitting on this 4.2.X crap.

nefan65
May 24, 2011, 09:39 AM
If it's anything like iOS 4, then they'll give 3Gs owners the first iteration, with some features unavailable, and 5.1 and beyond, it won't run. Or similar.

Also, the 3Gs phones selling right now are only $49. Again, same as the 3G/iOS 4. You get an older handset, at a much lower cost, so you don't get all the bells/whistles.

I don't see any issue...

BLACKFRIDAY
May 24, 2011, 09:39 AM
Would be a big mistake if they did. Tons of people still have a 3Gs including myself :) And it would be ridiculous if they're selling a phone that can't run the latest software!

So you buy a phone that was released a year or two before and expect it to always run the latest operating system?

batitombo
May 24, 2011, 09:40 AM
who cares?

joeconvert
May 24, 2011, 09:40 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

Because the upgrade path is so clearly defined with Android handsets? IN other words, lucky to get one release after the one that shipped on it.

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:40 AM
What's the big deal? It will be just like many Android Phones?

One advantage of Apple's iOS setup was it wasn't done the way Android still does it.

acfusion29
May 24, 2011, 09:40 AM
Would be a big mistake if they did. Tons of people still have a 3Gs including myself :) And it would be ridiculous if they're selling a phone that can't run the latest software!

o ya, so i can hear all you 3GS owners bitch and moan because iOS5 runs like a pile of ****?

i would rather Apple build an operating system on NEW HARDWARE instead of old hardware. that just screws everything up.

They are still selling the 3Gs.
So they should offer at least security updates, if that rumor will be true.

in order for there to be security updates, they have to find a problem first :rolleyes:

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 09:41 AM
This isn't really much of a surprise. It's likely because of the amount of memory it has.

That's likely what they'll ascribe it to, but there's no expected big memory hits like we got with iOS4 and multitasking. Even in that case, Apple simply didn't allow the 3G to do that new feature, they didn't hold back the entire upgrade.

You'll also remember the iPad 1 only had 256MB of RAM, yet it did multitasking just fine.

JNGold
May 24, 2011, 09:42 AM
What's the big deal? It will be just like many Android Phones?


Not really. Hardware being release right now are still getting older versions of the OS. In addition, hardware that is perfectly capable of running > Froyo are still sitting in a holding pattern.

At least Apple gives it's model line breathing room (~2 years) in terms of OS upgrades.

fabian9
May 24, 2011, 09:43 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Right, the 3G got iOS 4, and people complained non stop about performance. Looks like they are trying to avoid a repeat of this.

We're not used to it in the fairly mature hardware world of laptops and desktops, where gains is software are significant, but hardware doesn't change too much. But at the moment, mobile hardware capabilities and development is outpacing software development. We can't expect the same amount of OS backward compatibility on mobile devices.

But performance won't be an issue. The cores are very similar in performance. One is a 600 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core and the other is ~800 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core.

Not being able to install the later an greatest version of an operating system does not make a product obsolete...

It still does everything and more than it did when it was purchased, so there really is no need to complain.

In this case, it does. The operating system is the product. Sure the hardware is nice, but it's just a conduit for the real product, iOS. It's what gets people to buy apps and make Apple revenue after the device is sold.

And will you still be able to use iOS after other people with later hardware have updated to iOS 5? Yes! Will you still be able to install apps? Yes! Will you get support from apple if your phone is still under warranty? Yes!

Will you be able to use the latest and greatest functions? Of course not, but that's the price you pay for using old hardware. The 3GS is 2 years old now, that's ancient is today's technology terms.

ghostlyorb
May 24, 2011, 09:43 AM
No offense to anyone, but I think this would be a great move.

snebes
May 24, 2011, 09:44 AM
So you buy a phone that was released a year or two before and expect it to always run the latest operating system?

You really need to look at it from a normal persons perspective. They are still being sold as new, so they are the latest and greatest to a lot of people. These types of people will blindly update their device when iTunes says so. However, when they see that their phone doesn't get the highly advertised iOS5, there may be problems.

Westside guy
May 24, 2011, 09:44 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being true - I could have speculatively said the same thing. The bigger question is:

Why would MacRumors - or anyone else - consider some random dude's tweet as having any basis behind it at all? I wouldn't put any more weight on this than I would if Arn said it. It's a tweet - the guy probably pulled it out of his... hat.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 24, 2011, 09:44 AM
That's likely what they'll ascribe it to, but there's no expected big memory hits like we got with iOS4 and multitasking. Even in that case, Apple simply didn't allow the 3G to do that new feature, they didn't hold back the entire upgrade.

You'll also remember the iPad 1 only had 256MB of RAM, yet it did multitasking just fine.

iPhone 3G had 128MB of RAM. iPhone 3GS had 256MB of RAM.

I can still see some performance hits but the phone is way useful, smooth and productive.

I am fine with the 3GS not being updated. 2 years of great usage and experience. Time to buy a new phone. :)

alent1234
May 24, 2011, 09:45 AM
too bad for the sucker that bought my water damaged 3GS back in february. HTC Inspire 4G cost me $20. i'll only see one OS upgrade with it from HTC/ATT but it only cost me $20 and is faster than the iphone in some ways

daneoni
May 24, 2011, 09:46 AM
I guess its down to which would you rather have, stable iOS 4 or patchy, glitchy, half-featured iOS 5?

They probably don't want to deal with the whole iPhone 3G/iOS 4 fiasco again. Also like someone already pointed out iOS 5 may simply be heavily optimized for the A-series chipsets.

xxBURT0Nxx
May 24, 2011, 09:46 AM
On one hand a lot of people are going to be bitching because the 3GS is still being sold and they are going to be irate that they can't get the latest OS.

On the other hand, if they did allow it, people would be complaining about how slow iOS 5 makes their iPhone 3GS. (much the same as 3G owners complaining about iOS 4)

Guess you can't please everyone, whether they allow it or not, people are going to bitch.

IMO, if it sucks as bad as iOS 4.0 did on the 3G, don't release it. If you can release a USABLE version, even if you have to cut or hamper some features, release an iOS 5.0 lite*

Also of note to all 3GS users... your phone isn't going to stop working when 5.0 is released, so quit saying you are being FORCED to upgrade. Only reason you would need to upgrade is if you want the latest features, which is ALWAYS a fact, with any technology.

jclardy
May 24, 2011, 09:46 AM
If it really is a decent overhaul then I guess I can agree with it, but I have a hard time beleiving that the iPhone 3GS wouldn't be able to handle it, but a fourth gen iPod Touch can.

The 3GS has a Cortex A8 CPU versus the A4 in the iPod Touch 4th gen, but the A4 design is based on the Cortex A8 and both have an equal amount of RAM.

In fact, the 3GS actually uses less RAM as all textures, images and fonts used by apps and the OS are all a quarter of the size of those used in the Retina display iPod Touch.

So graphics performance between the two is actually quite similar when you take into account the extra resources required to fill the 4x pixels of the retina display.

I don't have a 3GS, but as a developer it is a little annoying as it means you can't really take advantage of new features because you are cutting off a large portion of users who can't upgrade.

But if iOS 5 has some killer feature that no one knows about yet then I can understand :D

D0rk
May 24, 2011, 09:47 AM
I figured this would happen. I'll gladly upgrade if you, you know, release an iPhone 5 soon. My 3GS is on it's last legs anyways.

colmaclean
May 24, 2011, 09:47 AM
iOS 5 has, however, been reported to be a significant reworking of the company's mobile operating system

Link? What's changing?

Notifications obviously high on the list.

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:47 AM
You'll also remember the iPad 1 only had 256MB of RAM, yet it did multitasking just fine.

It could do a max of six smallish apps. Any game would flush at least 3 out. iPad 1 doesn't qualify as a multi tasker for me.

applesith
May 24, 2011, 09:47 AM
Thats expected. They shouldn't offer the upgrade to the 3GS just because they still sell the phone. If the phone's hardware can't run iOS 5 smoothly, then it makes no sense to have the device support it. Derp.

Skika
May 24, 2011, 09:47 AM
too bad for the sucker that bought my water damaged 3GS back in february. HTC Inspire 4G cost me $20. i'll only see one OS upgrade with it from HTC/ATT but it only cost me $20 and is faster than the iphone in some ways

Sounds like he has bigger problems than not being to able to run iOS 5.

paradox00
May 24, 2011, 09:47 AM
I have a 3GS and this does not surprise me at all. My phone definitely shows its age running iOS4, I can only imagine how it runs on the 3G (which would be like the 3GS running iOS5, at least in terms of release dates). I only wish Canadian contracts lasted two years instead of three...

BLACKFRIDAY
May 24, 2011, 09:48 AM
You really need to look at it from a normal persons perspective. They are still being sold as new, so they are the latest and greatest to a lot of people. These types of people will blindly update their device when iTunes says so. However, when they see that their phone doesn't get the highly advertised iOS5, there may be problems.

No. They are not.

Everybody who buys an iPhone knows it was released way back in 2009.

iPhone 4, the big news was released in 2010. Everybody should know that. Apple says in the TOC that they will support a new phone for atleast 2 years after the release date which they did. Maybe that's why they delayed the launch to get out of the two year time-frame.

I got my kid a 3GS recently and he's happy with it. I knew the iPhone4 was there. I knew something impressive is going to show up soon.

I don't think Apple is forced to upgrade my son's 3GS. I knew that.

walnuts
May 24, 2011, 09:48 AM
The comparison between the iOS 4 introduction/obsoleting of the iPhone3G is fair, but there is a potential big difference. This time, rumor has it, there would be no new phone. Assuming they introduce iOS 5 in June, would they continue to sell the 3GS as the cheap phone? Sounds like it would make much more sense for them to do such a move while introducing a new phone. iPhone 4 would then become the cheap option that would be supported with iOS 5.

RafaelT
May 24, 2011, 09:48 AM
Given how slow the iPhone 3G runs under iOS 4, I can't say I'm surprised. I bet iOS 5 will have optimizations for the A-class processors, and the A4 will be the cutoff.

Agreed. Apple likes to do things right and I think they learned from letting the 3G run iOS4. I have no problem with this. If this is what it takes to get a significant revamp of the OS I say go for it.

miles01110
May 24, 2011, 09:48 AM
You really need to look at it from a normal persons perspective.
A "normal" person (in the US) expects to get a new phone every two years after their contract expires. I would imagine that the person who is up for renewal and chooses the same, 2-year old phone is an uncommon breed.
They are still being sold as new, so they are the latest and greatest to a lot of people.
How is that relevant? There are still Symbian phones being sold as new.
These types of people will blindly update their device when iTunes says so. However, when they see that their phone doesn't get the highly advertised iOS5, there may be problems.
Maybe, but the majority realize that their iPhone 3GS is older than the iPhone 4 in the display right next to it. Thus, they go into the purchase knowing their phone is outdated.

0815
May 24, 2011, 09:49 AM
Even if I still would have a iPhone 3GS and assuming I could install iOS5 on it ... I wouldn't do it. The newer major OS versions are optimized for the latest model (iPhone5) and run great on those - and run ok on the previous one (iPhone4) - they usually make older models too slow to be usable.

nagromme
May 24, 2011, 09:49 AM
If thatís the case, I sure hope the 3GS at least gets some ongoing 4.x updates for at least minor features (like new App Store stuff, Game Center, whatever). Which is rare, but not unprecedented, with OS X releases.

William Gates
May 24, 2011, 09:49 AM
I'm pretty sure I remember Apple promising 2 years of updates for the iPhones. This falls in line with it.

The one's who are bitching are making me roll my eyes. There was quite a few meltdowns on here when the 3G performed horribly on 4.0. Now people are pissed that Apple doesn't want to repeat that?

Also, 600 MHz Cortex A8 processor with 256 MB of RAM is not the same as an 800 MHz custom built A4 processor with 512 MB of RAM.

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:50 AM
I like how people state Apple learned their lesson from the iOS 4 3G fiasco. Seriously, 30 seconds with it would have said this is not production ready. Not even remotely so, it was clearly a push to get people to upgrade by basically bricking their phones. They knew full well what they were releasing.

I say give 3GS users the option. Give them iOS 5 but let them revert if it's show stoppingly bad.

Hattig
May 24, 2011, 09:53 AM
The problem is that Apple continued to sell the 3GS and still do! It may be 2 years old, so people who bought it 2 years ago have had a lot of updates and support, but there are people embarking on 2 year contracts with them even today (although why they would I don't know) so it would be nice for them to receive software and especially security updates for that timespan.

On the other hand I expect that there will be an iOS 4.4 that backports the suitable features from iOS5 for 3GS owners.

Apple should have replaced the 3GS with a cheaper version of the iPhone 4 at the beginning of this year. Plastic back instead of glass. Lower resolution display. Less RAM. 8GB flash.

d0minick
May 24, 2011, 09:53 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

Good luck getting your Android to update to the next version of their OS. Android OS upgrade roll outs flat out fails in comparison to Apple's upgrade implementation of iOS.

Seriously, at least with Apple you understand that every 3rd generation old phone will not be supported. Every 2nd generation will with a lack of some feature or two. And they almost exactly coincide with the launch of the iOS.

With Android, it is just so fragmented, and frankly, why deal with the hassle on a mobile?

tcphoto
May 24, 2011, 09:54 AM
People should just face it, Apple will force your hand at upgrading your phone every two years. The 3GS will not run but maybe one more iOS update and then will be put on the unsupported list like the 3G. Apple is in the business of making money not friends, otherwise Steve would be wearing hawaiian shirts and sandals.

Hellhammer
May 24, 2011, 09:55 AM
What's the big deal? It will be just like many Android Phones?

Really... as long as iOS 4 keeps getting updated (like they've done with MacOSX 10.5 even though 10.6 is most current) it should be fine. The iPhone3Gs people will still have a great phone.... but we must move forward and the new processors are so much faster and I'm sure the next iPhone will be much faster than the iPhone4.

Actually... maybe they can make iOS4 even better for the 3Gs people and get rid of the lags completely.

OS X 10.5 hasn't gotten a single update after 10.6 was released, unless you count security updates as updates. Apple won't do anything good for the 3GS people. Apple has already got their money and all they want now is that those people spend another 600Ä on a new iPhone when it is released.

Multitasking works fine in 3G with a jailbreak, yet Apple decided not to include it because 3G does not have the "horsepower" for that. What about Home screen background? Does that eat too many resources too :rolleyes: iOS 4 for 3G was a total fiasco. It didn't add ANY resource hungry features to the 3G, yet it turned it into an expensive brick. While I don't think anyone was able to provide any concrete proofs, I would bet that Apple did that on purpose to force people to buy new phones.

If I bought my iPhone with 2-year contract, I would still be paying for my phone while not being able to get the latest OS. That is why I find this ridiculous. Basically, it would be the same if Apple limited Lion to 2009 and newer Macs.

0815
May 24, 2011, 09:55 AM
I like how people state Apple learned their lesson from the iOS 4 3G fiasco. Seriously, 30 seconds with it would have said this is not production ready. Not even remotely so, it was clearly a push to get people to upgrade by basically bricking their phones. They knew full well what they were releasing.

I say give 3GS users the option. Give them iOS 5 but let them revert if it's show stoppingly bad.

Worked for me ... after 1 week of iOS4 on my 3GS I asked my boss to approve the purchase of the iPhone 4 for me ... :D ... I Love my iPhone 4 (not sure if I'm going to put iOS5 on it right away .... maybe I wait for some speed reviews this time ... but than, I might need a good 'reason' to get the new phone)

jeznav
May 24, 2011, 09:55 AM
Recap:

iPhone 1/2G - iPhoneOS 1 updates to v.2
iPhone 3G - iPhoneOS 2 updates to v.3
iPhone 3Gs - iPhoneOS 3 to iOS 4
iPhone 4 - iOS 4 and 5 maybe 6?
iPhone 5 - iOS 5 and future iOS 6,7?

d0minick
May 24, 2011, 09:55 AM
Apple should have replaced the 3GS with a cheaper version of the iPhone 4 at the beginning of this year. Plastic back instead of glass. Lower resolution display. Less RAM. 8GB flash.

While I agree, I still believe it will fragment the phone line up too much. They do not want to confuse people. And they want to stay premium, I do not think they want anyone to label a better priced iPhone as the "cheap" iphone.

kasei
May 24, 2011, 09:56 AM
The fact of the matter is the 3GS hardware just can't support the newer iOS. I am sure they will do some kind of security update, but going backwards by developing a new iOS for older hardware is not practical and economical. Besides they still sell the 3GS because it is a low cost introduction to the iPhone. The goal is to get people to buy the new phone. The fact Apple regularly updates the iOS puts them far ahead of everyone else. Most phone manufacturers roll out firmware updates once a year, if that much.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 09:56 AM
iPhone 3G had 128MB of RAM. iPhone 3GS had 256MB of RAM.

I can still see some performance hits but the phone is way useful, smooth and productive.

I am fine with the 3GS not being updated. 2 years of great usage and experience. Time to buy a new phone. :)

The iPad arguably has a higher need for RAM due to its increased pixel count compared to the 3GS (over 4x) and its apps with more enhanced GUIs. Apple also did not make a big deal about it not having some features like they did with the 3GS. Finally, the iPad also got some exclusive productivity apps like pages etc. The point was that it did fine with those demands and 256 MB of memory, so it doesn't logically follow that they're going to add something in iOS5 that will kill the 3GS.

Similarly, this would also mean the iPad 1 shouldn't get iOS 5 given they have the same amount of RAM. There would be riots about that.

Skika
May 24, 2011, 09:56 AM
The problem is that Apple continued to sell the 3GS and still do! It may be 2 years old, so people who bought it 2 years ago have had a lot of updates and support, but there are people embarking on 2 year contracts with them even today (although why they would I don't know) so it would be nice for them to receive software and especially security updates for that timespan.

On the other hand I expect that there will be an iOS 4.4 that backports the suitable features from iOS5 for 3GS owners.

Apple should have replaced the 3GS with a cheaper version of the iPhone 4 at the beginning of this year. Plastic back instead of glass CHECK. Lower resolution display CHECK. Less RAM CHECK. 8GB flash CHECK.

So Apple should make an 3GS with an A4 chip?

LegendKillerUK
May 24, 2011, 09:57 AM
Multitasking works fine in 3G with a jailbreak, yet Apple decided not to include it because 3G does not have the "horsepower" for that. What about Home screen background? Does that eat too many resources too :rolleyes: iOS 4 for 3G was a total fiasco. It didn't add ANY resource hungry features to the 3G, yet it turned it into an expensive brick.

I agree with you up until the quoted. Multitasking on the 3G is literally unusable. Wallpapers lag like nothing else as well. I'm sure you can find a you tube video documenting this.

Thataboy
May 24, 2011, 09:57 AM
GOOD.

Apple is already slow with major phone and iOS updates (compared to the quickly evolving Android). Progress should not be halted because of legacy hardware. Okay, calling the 3GS "legacy" is kind of aggressive, but if Apple can't make iOS 5 work WELL on it, then that's that. Don't dumb the OS down to satisfy people on $49 phones. Sorry.

satkin2
May 24, 2011, 09:59 AM
Apple will want people on 3Gs' to upgrade to the iPhone 5 whn it comes out. By restricting the iOS it increases the incentive to do this.

Contracts for early adopters of the 3Gs will end around or a little before the iPhone 5s arrival so they are in the perfect window to upgrade.

For those who are buying the 3Gs' that are available now will know it's old kit so can't expect to have the latest and greatest iOS going forwards, this is part of the deal in buying older kit. They don't get the future advances, but they get an iPhone really cheap.

domness
May 24, 2011, 10:01 AM
Sucks to be on a 3Gs and a developer... Maybe it's time to move to Android.

xxBURT0Nxx
May 24, 2011, 10:01 AM
GOOD.

Apple is already slow with major phone and iOS updates (compared to the quickly evolving Android). Progress should not be halted because of legacy hardware. Okay, calling the 3GS "legacy" is kind of aggressive, but if Apple can't make iOS 5 work WELL on it, then that's that. Don't dumb the OS down to satisfy people on $49 phones. Sorry.
Android is quick to add new features, unfortunately with all of the stupid manufacturers thinking they need to add their custom skins on top, the releases roll out very slowly. Many devices had to wait months for Froyo, some are still waiting, and we now have gingerbread released, devices waiting on that, and Ice Cream announced...

Stridder44
May 24, 2011, 10:02 AM
I agree. It's forced obsolence, nothing more. If an ip4 can handle iOS5, so can a 3GS. Their processors are from the same family of ARM cores and they share the same GPU IIRC. That's different than the comparatively slow 3G to 3GS.

Can I borrow your time machine so I can see what iOS 5 looks like and its requirements?

This news should be a surprise to no one, ESPECIALLY to people who have been here a while like yourself.

miles01110
May 24, 2011, 10:02 AM
Sucks to be on a 3Gs and a developer... Maybe it's time to move to Android.

If you are still on a 3GS as a developer perhaps you need to rethink your business model.

chris975d
May 24, 2011, 10:03 AM
The fact of the matter is the 3GS hardware just can't support the newer iOS. I am sure they will do some kind of security update, but going backwards by developing a new iOS for older hardware is not practical and economical. Besides they still sell the 3GS because it is a low cost introduction to the iPhone. The goal is to get people to buy the new phone. The fact Apple regularly updates the iOS puts them far ahead of everyone else. Most phone manufacturers roll out firmware updates once a year, if that much.

You do realize that the 3GS hardware is virtually identical to the iPhone 4 hardware, right? Aside from the iPhone 4 having double the RAM (512 vs 256), everything else is the same. Same CPU, just clocked a tad slower, and exactly the same GPU. Unless iOS 5 is heavily RAM dependent, there should be no reason it couldn't run on the 3GS if it runs fine on the iPhone 4.

Hattig
May 24, 2011, 10:05 AM
So Apple should make an 3GS with an A4 chip?

Yup. And the ability to run iOS 5 when it is released.

But Apple isn't into cheaper products when it compromises the quality, they'd rather sell the older previously-high end product cheaper.

I can't think of much reason why the 3GS can't run something the A4 can, the CPUs aren't that different, the features in the SoCs aren't that different. Maybe it's just because everything is retina now and they don't want to provide non-retina material in iOS5. And the iPad had 256MB RAM and presumably is getting iOS5, so it's not the amount of RAM either.

GFLPraxis
May 24, 2011, 10:06 AM
Not really. Support for the original iPhone lasted until 3.0, support for the 3G basically stopped with 4.0, so why would we expect the 3GS to get special treatment?

We all knew this was going to happen.

iOS 4 orphaned the original iPhone.

iOS 5 should orphan the 3G, not 3G *and* 3GS.

Skika
May 24, 2011, 10:06 AM
You do realize that the 3GS hardware is virtually identical to the iPhone 4 hardware, right? Aside from the iPhone 4 having double the RAM (512 vs 256), everything else is the same. Same CPU, just clocked a tad slower, and exactly the same GPU. Unless iOS 5 is heavily RAM dependent, there should be no reason it couldn't run on the 3GS if it runs fine on the iPhone 4.

Maybe iOS5 has been redesigned so that uses the extra pixels of the retina display? Thus making it unusable on a 320x480 display?

nefan65
May 24, 2011, 10:07 AM
I agree. It's forced obsolence, nothing more. If an ip4 can handle iOS5, so can a 3GS. Their processors are from the same family of ARM cores and they share the same GPU IIRC. That's different than the comparatively slow 3G to 3GS.



Hardware yes. Last I checked, they had 4.3.2 just like iphone 4 users.

It's more than just the overall specs. Chances are 5 could have more reliance on Retina. If that's true, then the 3Gs won't run it, regardless of the chipset or ram.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:08 AM
Can I borrow your time machine so I can see what iOS 5 looks like and its requirements?

This news should be a surprise to no one, ESPECIALLY to people who have been here a while like yourself.

Tell me what feature we expect in iOS 5 that is going to drive performance requirements. We're commenting on a rumor here. Why would you expect hard facts to discuss the hypotheticals of this rumor?

Second, who said this is surprising? Most of us arguing against are saying its bad practice and likely going to be a bogus explanation. Sometimes apple does things that make sense like not giving the 3G multi-tasking. Other times it's arbitrarily withholding features to force users to upgrade.

It's more than just the overall specs. Chances are 5 could have more reliance on Retina. If that's true, then the 3Gs won't run it, regardless of the chipset or ram.

It's possible, but it behooves one to think of a reason that would necessitate it. They coexist now.

peterdevries
May 24, 2011, 10:09 AM
Would be a big mistake if they did. Tons of people still have a 3Gs including myself :) And it would be ridiculous if they're selling a phone that can't run the latest software!

As soon as iOS5 is introduced they will discontinue the 3GS, which will be replaced by the iPhone 4, which itself will be replaced by the iPhone 5 or 4S or whatever they will call it.

vincenz
May 24, 2011, 10:09 AM
iOS 5 needs to come out already :(

darbus69
May 24, 2011, 10:09 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.

The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

everyone begs for all the latest OS software technologies and then whines when old hardware will not run it; I will never understand the logic of vilifying apple for its greed as the determining factor-get a grip on it folks...

regandarcy
May 24, 2011, 10:09 AM
This is EXACTLY why when asked what Mac I should buy, I always say the BEST you can afford. Cause eventually Apple will come out with a software upgrade that WILL NOT run on your device.

Cest la vie! :-)

Noodlefarmer
May 24, 2011, 10:11 AM
The whining is amazing. If you want the latest, upgrade and get it. The $150 difference between the 3GS and 4 is peanuts compared to the contract.

I am still on a 3GS and it runs great. Due for upgrade next month. Might wait and see what 5 is like. But it's not like I'm using two tin cans and a string.

ny3ranger
May 24, 2011, 10:11 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

This is the funniest comment I have read this week.

URFloorMatt
May 24, 2011, 10:12 AM
If this means that iOS5 is a major overhaul that the 3GS can't support effectively, then by all means I support this.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:13 AM
The whining is amazing. If you want the latest, upgrade and get it. The $150 difference between the 3GS and 4 is peanuts compared to the contract.

I am still on a 3GS and it runs great. Due for upgrade next month. Might wait and see what 5 is like. But it's not like I'm using two tin cans and a string.

Not a relevant argument to a third gen iPod touch user.

blackcrayon
May 24, 2011, 10:13 AM
I'm pretty sure iOS 5 will support the 3GS, just without some of the new features. It will probably get the improved notifications and the updated apps but not the new voice recognition (or something :)
It's not like this rumor came from Phil Schiller. As was stated, the 3GS has the same amount of RAM as the iPad 1, and there's no way that won't be supported. The fact that the 3GS has such a low resolution screen actually allows it to do some graphical things faster than the iPhone 4.

Reason077
May 24, 2011, 10:13 AM
Not really. iOS devices thus far have got their release OS + 2.

3GS initially shipped with OS 3.0. So, 3GS owners are only getting release OS + 1 in this case...

nonameowns
May 24, 2011, 10:14 AM
does anyone think apple is eventually turning the iphone and ipad into killer gaming devices? Complete against Sony and Nintendo...

Hellhammer
May 24, 2011, 10:15 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



everyone begs for all the latest OS software technologies and then whines when old hardware will not run it; I will never understand the logic of vilifying apple for its greed as the determining factor-get a grip on it folks...

So should we sing praise songs to Apple instead? The only reasonable reason why Apple does not support the older iPhone is greed. Or can you come up with a better reason, especially when 3GS' hardware is very similar to iP4?

This is EXACTLY why when asked what Mac I should buy, I always say the BEST you can afford. Cause eventually Apple will come out with a software upgrade that WILL NOT run on your device.

Cest la vie! :-)

Doesn't really matter because the hardware generations are the same. If Apple decides to stop supporting Core 2 Duo Macs, then it doesn't matter what Mac you bought back in 2008, as they all had C2D.

gibbz
May 24, 2011, 10:16 AM
Not a surprise, really.

From Apple's iPhone License (pdf) (http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf)
Apple will provide you any iOS software updates that it may release from time to time, up to and including the next major iPhone OS software release following the version of iPhone OS that originally shipped from Apple on your iPhone, for free.

For example, if your iPhone originally shipped with iPhone 2.x software, Apple would provide you with any iPhone OS software updates it might release up to and including the iPhone 3.x software release.

Since the 3GS shipped with iOS 3, they would be guaranteed support through iOS 4.x.

Bigdaddyguido
May 24, 2011, 10:16 AM
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.

The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

I love how people still claim this is about making money. We've already seen why iPhone 4.0 wasn't for the original iPhone or really even the 3G, the OS is too complex for the hardware. The iPhone 4 has twice as much ram as the 3GS and a significantly faster processor, and the a5 will be even more ridiculous. Why crimp on features for the people forking up for new phones rather than continuing to support legacy hardware. Honestly, the people buying 3GS now are looking for a budget, simple smat phone, many of the would probably not upgrade to 5.0 for sometime even if it was available to them, and most of them probably wouldnt notice the newest features.

srathi
May 24, 2011, 10:16 AM
Fragmentation :D

xxBURT0Nxx
May 24, 2011, 10:17 AM
Not a relevant argument to a third gen iPod touch user.
because your ipod is going to stop working when iOS 5 is released?

I don't know if I believe this rumor, the 3GS still has essentially the same hardware as the iPhone 4 so I see no reason it won't run the latest OS, maybe have some features stripped, but as long as it's not as bad as iOS 4 on the 3G was I think Apple is making a mistake if they don't release it.

Biolizard
May 24, 2011, 10:17 AM
One thing Apple has over Android is consistency of software updates. IMO Apple needs to set out a policy on retiring iOS hardware and then stick to it.

iPhone was retired at iOS 4.0, which was sensible, but iPhone 3G got strung along until 4.2.1, and not for the better in practical terms. If the 3GS gets retired at iOS 5, then there's no consistency at all.

That's not good for:
- consumers, because it introduces uncertainty about the perceived life of their product into their purchasing decision.
- developers, because they can't plan their projects according to what hardware to support.
- Apple, even, because they're reliant on the above groups for their income.

Reason077
May 24, 2011, 10:18 AM
If you are still on a 3GS as a developer perhaps you need to rethink your business model.

Any decent developer will actually keep a variety of devices around for testing. I still have a 3G for testing purposes, in fact.

(btw: anyone noticed that iOS 4.2.1 on the iPhone 3G gets slower and slower over time? After 6 months or so it becomes really sluggish and laggy, and apps start randomly crashing. Then, factory restore (without restoring from backup), and its all nice and snappy again!)

William Gates
May 24, 2011, 10:19 AM
GOOD.

Apple is already slow with major phone and iOS updates (compared to the quickly evolving Android).


I know we're arguing the same point, but you're flat out wrong here.

Android 1.0 was released september 2008
Android 2.0 was released october 2009
Android 3.0 was released february 2011


where as iOS:

1.0 June 2007
2.0 July 2008
3.0 June 2009
4.0 June 2010

PLUS Android was only playing catchup on most updates. It's a lot easier to copy something than invent something.

Noodlefarmer
May 24, 2011, 10:19 AM
Not a relevant argument to a third gen iPod touch user.

Silly me. I thought this article was about the 3GS.

b_scott
May 24, 2011, 10:20 AM
i'm sure this is just due to the complaints from 4.0 on the 3G. Nip it in the bud and just don't let people update.

Macopotamus
May 24, 2011, 10:20 AM
iOS 4+ runs terrible on iPhone 3G and 3GS, this seems appropriate

celo48
May 24, 2011, 10:20 AM
No surprise here.

Reason077
May 24, 2011, 10:21 AM
iOS 4+ runs terrible on iPhone 3G and 3GS, this seems appropriate

Not true. It may be a bit sluggish, and buggy, on the 3G, but its absolutely fine on the 3GS. In fact the 3GS CPU is only marginally slower than the iPhone 4's A4 - though it does have half the RAM.

JASApplications
May 24, 2011, 10:22 AM
iOS 4 orphaned the original iPhone.

iOS 5 should orphan the 3G, not 3G *and* 3GS.

Agreed! The 3Gs is still an awesome phone. It will last me at least another year. I don't see how people can spend hundreds of £ on a new iPhone every year just because it has a few more features!

JASApplications
May 24, 2011, 10:23 AM
iOS 4+ runs terrible on iPhone 3G and 3GS, this seems appropriate

runs beautifully on my 3Gs!

Bigdaddyguido
May 24, 2011, 10:24 AM
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Right, the 3G got iOS 4, and people complained non stop about performance. Looks like they are trying to avoid a repeat of this.

We're not used to it in the fairly mature hardware world of laptops and desktops, where gains is software are significant, but hardware doesn't change too much. But at the moment, mobile hardware capabilities and development is outpacing software development. We can't expect the same amount of OS backward compatibility on mobile devices.

But performance won't be an issue. The cores are very similar in performance. One is a 600 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core and the other is ~800 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core.

Not being able to install the later an greatest version of an operating system does not make a product obsolete...

It still does everything and more than it did when it was purchased, so there really is no need to complain.

In this case, it does. The operating system is the product. Sure the hardware is nice, but it's just a conduit for the real product, iOS. It's what gets people to buy apps and make Apple revenue after the device is sold.

How did you buy the OS? In this case, you'd have bought a 3GS with some version of iOS 3 on it. Later you got to upgrade to 4 for free. When iOS 5 rolls out, your phone will still run what you bought. You didn't buy permanent privilege to iOS, you bought the hardware if an iPhone 3GS.

However, even when you buy an OS, you still are just getting that version. Apple is still selling snow leopard now, when lion comes out, unless you bought SL within the last month, you'll have to pay to buy the next os. It's not an all you can eat buffet.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 24, 2011, 10:25 AM
The iPad arguably has a higher need for RAM due to its increased pixel count compared to the 3GS (over 4x) and its apps with more enhanced GUIs. Apple also did not make a big deal about it not having some features like they did with the 3GS. Finally, the iPad also got some exclusive productivity apps like pages etc. The point was that it did fine with those demands and 256 MB of memory, so it doesn't logically follow that they're going to add something in iOS5 that will kill the 3GS.

Similarly, this would also mean the iPad 1 shouldn't get iOS 5 given they have the same amount of RAM. There would be riots about that.

If that happens, I'd be rioting too. :P

I really don't know about it mate. Lets just hold down.

If there's really a power punch or some extra hardware required for iOS 5.0, I think my 3GS can take it but if its not, then I'd expect Apple to think about it once more.

I cannot demand as I have been a happy customer for 2 years. But lets just hold on. :)

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:25 AM
I love how people still claim this is about making money. We've already seen why iPhone 4.0 wasn't for the original iPhone or really even the 3G, the OS is too complex for the hardware. The iPhone 4 has twice as much ram as the 3GS and a significantly faster processor, and the a5 will be even more ridiculous.

Incorrect. The A4 is not significantly faster than the 3GS's processor when you consider 3G to 3GS jump. It's between 25% and 33%. By comparison, 3GS to 3G was over 100%. (50% more clock speed 50% faster clock per clock). A4 from 3GS speed is clock speed only. The processor architectures are the same.

because your ipod is going to stop working when iOS 5 is released?

I don't know if I believe this rumor, the 3GS still has essentially the same hardware as the iPhone 4 so I see no reason it won't run the latest OS, maybe have some features stripped, but as long as it's not as bad as iOS 4 on the 3G was I think Apple is making a mistake if they don't release it.

As I've said before, the device is the software. Apple has openly stated that they make their own hardware simply to have more control over their software. The selling point of the iPhone is iOS and the app store.

Silly me. I thought this article was about the 3GS.

So you're positing that the third gen ipod touch, which has the exact same application SoC as the 3GS, will get the upgrade and the 3GS won't? How mad are you trying to make apple users?

How did you buy the OS? In this case, you'd have bought a 3GS with some version of iOS 3 on it. Later you got to upgrade to 4 for free. When iOS 5 rolls out, your phone will still run what you bought. You didn't buy permanent privilege to iOS, you bought the hardware if an iPhone 3GS.

However, even when you buy an OS, you still are just getting that version. Apple is still selling snow leopard now, when lion comes out, unless you bought SL within the last month, you'll have to pay to buy the next os. It's not an all you can eat buffet.

The problem is withholding a free software update when the requirements do not appear to require it. It's completely possible a new user in a 2 year contract could purchase a phone only to find out 2 months later he won't get a software update. Similarly, people with the iphone 3G enjoyed two iOS updates. It's not unreasonable to expect the same for the 3GS. No one is arguing about iOS 6 or beyond here.

skellener
May 24, 2011, 10:26 AM
Apple and AT&T are still selling brand new 3Gs iPhones currently. So buyer beware.

My two year old 3Gs with iOS 4.2.1 still works just fine. Hadn't planned on a new one until it works on next gen networks. I'd really like to see LTE in the next iPhone. Sounds like it will probably be another generation though.

toddybody
May 24, 2011, 10:26 AM
Total Rubbish. One of Apple's leading advantages is their legacy HW support in OS upgrades.

We understand, the 3GS may not be able to provide the fluid iOS 5 experience (new expose like views etc) the 4 and 5/4s will...that doesnt mean it should be left in the dark wholeheartedly.

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 10:28 AM
Ah, this is almost ironic with a twist of Karma.

I remember when I had an iPhone 3G, and I was commenting in threads regarding the lack of Multi-Tasking and Home Screen wallpapers for the iPhone 3G.

I was told, "Shut up and upgrade already" or "You can't expect Apple to keep supporting old hardware". The 3GS owners, their device the best iPhone that Apple made, were borderline smug and intolerable.

And now here we are ... it's 3GS owners turn to complain. People saying that the iPhone 3GS is still sold and should be supported need to remember that the 3G was still sold when iOS4 came out and rendered it almost unusable. Have you ever thought that Apple have maybe learned a lesson from the 3G, that if you can't run the latest software well at all, then omit the device completely. The iPhone 3G should never have gotten iOS4, and now it looks like the iPhone 3GS won't get iOS5 which, could actually, be a God send for that device and it's users.

And here come the 3GS users and their mark down votes ... I love this new system, it shows how petty the people who frequent this forum actually are.

And in true Weegie style, as a comeback to the smugness of 3GS owners last year ... "GIRFUY".

Alvi
May 24, 2011, 10:28 AM
I'm not shocked, the 3GS is pretty slow with iOS4 anyway. I'd rather not have it than have issues like the 3G iPhone when iOS4 first came out.

I'm just glad I sold my 3GS on time and I'm waiting for the 4S/4GS/5 to come out..

KnightWRX
May 24, 2011, 10:29 AM
So, last OSes :

iPhone - 3.x
iPhone 3G - 4.x
iPhone 3GS - should be 5.x

Yet, here we are and iPhone 3GS is not getting 5.x ? Seeing how the iPhone 3GS and the iPad 1 are hardware equivalents, can we also say the iPad 1 is not getting iOS 5.x ?

I'm not shocked, the 3GS is pretty slow with iOS4 anyway.

Uh ? No it's not. It even scores better FPS in games than the iPhone 4 thanks to its lower screen resolution.

Ah, this is almost ironic with a twist of Karma.

I remember when I had an iPhone 3G, and I was commenting in threads regarding the lack of Multi-Tasking and Home Screen wallpapers for the iPhone 3G.

I was told, "Shut up and upgrade already" or "You can't expect Apple to keep supporting old hardware". The 3GS owners, their device the best iPhone that Apple made, were borderline smug and intolerable.

I was with you all the way, pointing out that the JB community made wallpapers and multi-tasking work on the 3G, there was no reason Apple can't do it.

bpeeps
May 24, 2011, 10:30 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

No one is stopping you.

d0minick
May 24, 2011, 10:30 AM
Agreed! The 3Gs is still an awesome phone. It will last me at least another year. I don't see how people can spend hundreds of £ on a new iPhone every year just because it has a few more features!

Not trying to be rude, but you are 16 and from your currency, somewhere in Europe (not sure of how much you are taxed out of your pay, tv tax, etc).

When you get a decent job, line up you priorities, you'll be suprised on how much you spend on the things you want.:eek:

JASApplications
May 24, 2011, 10:31 AM
I'm not shocked, the 3GS is pretty slow with iOS4 anyway. I'd rather not have it than have issues like the 3G iPhone when iOS4 first came out.

I'm just glad I sold my 3GS on time and I'm waiting for the 4S/4GS/5 to come out..
iOS4 works well on my 3Gs!

WestonHarvey1
May 24, 2011, 10:32 AM
Uh ? No it's not. It even scores better FPS in games than the iPhone 4 thanks to its lower screen resolution.

Agreed. I think some people haven't really seen iOS 4 on a 3GS, or have really skewed perceptions.

Needless to say, though, I'm infuriated at Apple because of this completely unsubstantiated rumour from Russia. It has ruined my day!

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:32 AM
Apple and AT&T are still selling brand new 3Gs iPhones currently. So buyer beware.

My two year old 3Gs with iOS 4.2.1 still works just fine. Hadn't planned on a new one until it works on next gen networks. I'd really like to see LTE in the next iPhone. Sounds like it will probably be another generation though.

Precisely. Yours is the case we are arguing. Don't sell a device if you expect to stop supporting updates in only a few months. They no longer sell the iPad 1 or the 3rd gen touch, and it's very likely the former of those will still see the update.

Reason077
May 24, 2011, 10:32 AM
Seeing how the iPhone 3GS and the iPad 1 are hardware equivalents, can we also say the iPad 1 is not getting iOS 5.x ?

iPad 1 has the A4 CPU, like the iPhone 4, but only 256MB RAM, like the 3GS.

ghostface147
May 24, 2011, 10:33 AM
Not a surprise, but we won't know until they announce it. Like iOS4, maybe they will disable some of the bigger functions in 5.

FoxHoundADAM
May 24, 2011, 10:33 AM
There sure are some very specific rumors the past few days regarding the iPhone 5. Kinda odd considering it is still supposed to be 4 months away.

eawmp1
May 24, 2011, 10:34 AM
I may be the only 3GS owner who is 1) not surprised, and 2) not upset. Buying the last generation PowerPC iMac upset me, but not this.

I expect, in the rapidly changing world of smartphones, there to be hardware "obsolescence" soon than on my computers. Everyone clamoring for more speed, features, etc. I am happy with 4.xx on my 3GS. I expect that I will have poorer performance one a reworked 5.0 comes around. I will see if the hardware and software updates are enough for me to upgrade.

I wonder if those complaining the loudest are people who upgrade every year and already have an iPhone 4, and are the ones clamoring about the need for Apple to catch up with features on other smartphones/mobile OS's.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 24, 2011, 10:34 AM
I was with you all the way, pointing out that the JB community made wallpapers and multi-tasking work on the 3G, there was no reason Apple can't do it.

Was 3G worth a jailbreak? It became slow and hardly usable with multi-tasking on. The battery life was reduced drastically.

Multi-tasking never worked out great on an iPhone 3G.

chrono1081
May 24, 2011, 10:34 AM
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

You do know handset manufacturers who use Android are just as bad right?

Not to mention not everything is a money making scheme. Technology becomes deprecated, even more quickly with mobile phones.

applefan69
May 24, 2011, 10:34 AM
You really need to look at it from a normal persons perspective. They are still being sold as new, so they are the latest and greatest to a lot of people. These types of people will blindly update their device when iTunes says so. However, when they see that their phone doesn't get the highly advertised iOS5, there may be problems.
obviously you got a 3gs and cannot afford a new iPhone. That is too sad for you, but PLEASE stop trying to force a situation where a problem can arise to justify your whining!

consider yourself lucky Apple supported old hardware this far.

newdeal
May 24, 2011, 10:35 AM
the update will certainly provide much better notifications and likely a better ui that the 3gs will get bogged down by just like something as simple as wallpapers bogged down the 3g. they are trying to cram in as many features as possible with every major update and unfortunately this is causing more rapid obselesence of hardware.

Biolizard
May 24, 2011, 10:35 AM
It'd be a shame if 3GS users lost out completely on iOS 5.

You could break down iOS into two parts for the purpose of this discussion: the user-facing stuff like Springboard and Spotlight, and the libraries that allow devs to create apps.

I can understand that a massive revamp of Springboard (which I'm hoping for) might be too much for the 3GS, but surely the latest developer APIs are not too taxing upon it and, along with Safari security updates, are still worthy of release for the 3GS?

jamesryanbell
May 24, 2011, 10:36 AM
No problem there. You ALWAYS, always, always have to be running the latest equipment. Doesn't mean the absolute latest iteration, but the most up-to-date hardware possible (i.e. if they release an iPhone 4s or something, iPhone 4 will still be fine...but if iPhone 5 comes out, IMMEDIATELY upgrade. NEVER ride old technology. Save up, make it happen.)
:D

(just ignore my sig. lol)

Reason077
May 24, 2011, 10:36 AM
If true, I suspect this is more about the work involved in developers having to maintain 2 sets of graphics (retina and non-retina) to support different devices, rather than the hardware itself.

Things will certainly become a lot simpler for many developers once they don't need to worry about shipping low-res graphics for older devices any more.

GenesisST
May 24, 2011, 10:36 AM
Wouldn't surprise me at all.

iphone 3GS will likely be discontinued with the release of the next phone anyway. Don't get stuck on the past folks.

JohnG

The "past" is merely 2 years away... I'll just remain on 4.what.ever when that happens. I'm quite content with my "WW1-era" 3GS. I have no reason to change it. It's a phone, not a defibrillator...

As a SW developer myself, I do understand that you have to cut off somewhere.

benpatient
May 24, 2011, 10:37 AM
"that only the latest hardware would offer a satisfactory (profit) experience"

FTFY.

hcho3
May 24, 2011, 10:37 AM
Samsung took almost 10 months to upgrade to android OS 2.2 on their Galaxy S phones here in US. 2.3 is out and that is to be released later.

A lot of android phones are still running OS 2.1 or even 2.0.

So, what is this about again?

Apple supported their 3GS for 2 years. What did you expect? 20 years?

harpinred
May 24, 2011, 10:37 AM
I don't think this should be a surprise to anybody due to the new processor capabilities forcasted for the next iPhone (whatever they call it). Apple has never been one to restrain themselves from new technology and innovation because it would mean that older products with slower, less efficient technology would be left behind. That would be very restricting and curtail innovation IMO.

The great thing about Apple products is that even if they don't get the latest and greatest, they still work. My 3G iPhone is now being used by a friend of mine in the UK and she's thrilled with it. I use my five year old iPod in my car every day and my ancient MacBook G4 still gets used on a regular basis.

I personally love seeing what Apple will come up with next and even though I'm not buying the upcoming phone and may not get all of the functionality of the new OS, it will be exciting to find out what's next.

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 10:37 AM
So, last OSes :

iPhone - 3.x
iPhone 3G - 4.x
iPhone 3GS - should be 5.x

Yet, here we are and iPhone 3GS is not getting 5.x ? Seeing how the iPhone 3GS and the iPad 1 are hardware equivalents, can we also say the iPad 1 is not getting iOS 5.x ?



Uh ? No it's not. It even scores better FPS in games than the iPhone 4 thanks to its lower screen resolution.



I was with you all the way, pointing out that the JB community made wallpapers and multi-tasking work on the 3G, there was no reason Apple can't do it.

I jailbroke my 3G and added multi-tasking and home screen wallpapers, and with a wallpaper enabled the springboard was very choppy, but no more choppy than it is now on 4.1. The problem is the drop shadows behind icons and the app name text. I removed those by digging into the plist and it was the same performance wise as without them, but that's the point I'm making above that all the little 3GS'ers are getting their knickers in a twist about.

Apple have seen that iOS4 on the iPhone 3G is NOT an optimal iOS experience and perhaps are unwilling to repeat that error on the 3GS, which is a pretty big user base, far beyond that of the iPhone 3G.

Use an iPhone 3G on 4.1 next to an iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 on any version of iOS4 and it's pretty bad in comparison. My Father in Law has a 3G, he's got 6 months left on his contract, and when he's using his iPhone 3G next to my iPhone 4, he can't believe the difference. Apple should have left the iPhone 3G on iOS3 because a) the performance suffered and b) it couldn't do all the features.

I just got a little carried away because the 3GS owners were insufferable on here towards 3G owners last year, and I commented at the time that come next year they'd be wearing that smirk on the other side of their faces unless they followed their own advice of, "Man up and upgrade".

But my iPhone 3G on 2.2.1 remains a nice piece of nostalgia.

JASApplications
May 24, 2011, 10:38 AM
Samsung took almost 10 months to upgrade to android OS 2.2 on their Galaxy S phones here in US. 2.3 is out and that is to be released later.

A lot of android phones are still running OS 2.1 or even 2.0.

So, what is this about again?

Apple supported their 3GS for 2 years. What did you expect? 20 years?

well, not 20 years but surely another 1 or 2!

kevingaffney
May 24, 2011, 10:39 AM
Good news. Seems likely ios5 will be a substantial upgrade. Lets face it, that was to be expected. Little tweeks to the os wont be enough to keep people happy this time around. Should mean next iPad upgrade will be a decent one too

Eriamjh1138@DAN
May 24, 2011, 10:39 AM
All previous comments aside, that's the price of speed-improvements for each new model. It will continue to run what it runs, but no more system updates.

Expect the same to happen to iPad when the iPad3 comes out.

JayMysterio
May 24, 2011, 10:40 AM
As stated before, it's merely forced obsolescence. Apple has come to realize they've expanded past the loyal fanboys and have just as many if not more casual fans/users. Those non fanboys would hold onto their quality product as long as possible, and not participate in the annual or biennial product upgrade.

Now more people can join in the recycle of apple products for the latest & greatest, and those slow to join in can purchase older product or keep their older product with that caveat. It's an interesting marketing approach, and it seems to be working for Apple.

KnightWRX
May 24, 2011, 10:40 AM
iPad 1 has the A4 CPU, like the iPhone 4, but only 256MB RAM, like the 3GS.

The A4 and the SoC in the 3GS are basically the same thing, give or take 200 mhz.

kasei
May 24, 2011, 10:41 AM
You do realize that the 3GS hardware is virtually identical to the iPhone 4 hardware, right? Aside from the iPhone 4 having double the RAM (512 vs 256), everything else is the same. Same CPU, just clocked a tad slower, and exactly the same GPU. Unless iOS 5 is heavily RAM dependent, there should be no reason it couldn't run on the 3GS if it runs fine on the iPhone 4.

Identical hardware? Where did you get that? Let takes a closer look: The iPhone 4 is running with an 1 GHz (underclocked to 800 MHz) A4 processor and the 3GS is running with the 833 MHz (underclocked to 600 MHz) MHz, Cortex-A8 architecture. As we all know the iPhone 4 has the retinal display and the 3GS doesn't. Oh and don't forget the gyroscope which the 3GS is lacking. Yes the RAM has been doubled so that part does support your argument.

So based on the specs, the hardware is not the same.

joeconvert
May 24, 2011, 10:41 AM
Sucks to be on a 3Gs and a developer... Maybe it's time to move to Android.

Doesn't look like anything you develop will be impacted anyway.... If you were serious about iOS, you'd have a 4 in the testing stable already anyway.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:43 AM
You do know handset manufacturers who use Android are just as bad right?

Not to mention not everything is a money making scheme. Technology becomes deprecated, even more quickly with mobile phones.

Yes, but apple makes a point of advertising it isn't their problem while google openly acknowledges a problem and says they will try and fix it with 2.4.

The A4 and the SoC in the 3GS are basically the same thing, give or take 200 mhz.

People can't seem to grasp that. Everyone is like ZOMG A4 so much better than 3GS.

UK-MacAddict
May 24, 2011, 10:43 AM
This is not surprising at all. By the time iOS 5 is released we will have a new iPhone and the iPhone 4 will drop down the product line to be the cheaper option as the 3GS is now. As a result Apple wont even be selling the 3GS later this year.

As the post above me states other manufacturers dont even bother supporting older phone models once new software releases become available. Apple has given full support to the 3GS for nearly 2 years now.

Hellhammer
May 24, 2011, 10:44 AM
Identical hardware? Where did you get that? Let takes a closer look: The iPhone 4 is running with an 1 GHz (underclocked to 800 MHz) A4 processor and the 3GS is running with the 833 MHz (underclocked to 600 MHz) MHz, Cortex-A8 architecture. As we all know the iPhone 4 has the retinal display and the 3GS doesn't. Oh and don't forget the gyroscope which the 3GS is lacking. Yes the RAM has been doubled so that part does support your argument.

So based on the specs, the hardware is not the same.

Apple's A4 is based on Cortex-A8... A few hundred MHz difference isn't the deal-breaker here. Retina display and gyroscope have nothing to do with 3GS' capability, it could still run iOS 5 with those features disabled unless Apple prohibited it. The minor difference in CPU and the extra RAM are the only differences that affect the performance.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:46 AM
This is not surprising at all. By the time iOS 5 is released we will have a new iPhone and the iPhone 4 will drop down the product line to be the cheaper option as the 3GS is now. As a result Apple wont even be selling the 3GS later this year.

As the post above me states other manufacturers dont even bother supporting older phone models once new software releases become available. Apple has given full support to the 3GS for nearly 2 years now.

iPhone 1 got 3 years of support. (1.x through 3.x)
iPhone 3G got 3 years of support. (2.x through 4.x)

Stopping 3GS at 4.x would only be 2 years of support, which is inconsistent with past practices.

sbrhwkp3
May 24, 2011, 10:46 AM
I can't wait for iOS 5. I'm expecting big things.

FasterQuieter
May 24, 2011, 10:46 AM
I am guessing it is the lack of RAM on the 3GS that presents the biggest challenge for iOS 5.

WiiDSmoker
May 24, 2011, 10:47 AM
I am guessing it is the lack of RAM on the 3GS that presents the biggest challenge for iOS 5.

If this is the case, then the original iPad is screwed.

Skika
May 24, 2011, 10:47 AM
Apple's A4 is based on Cortex-A8... A few hundred MHz difference isn't the deal-breaker here. Retina display and gyroscope have nothing to do with 3GS' capability, it could still run iOS 5 with those features disabled unless Apple prohibited it. The minor difference in CPU and the extra RAM are the only differences that affect the performance.

You are not counting the design changes that iOS5 may bring. Which could take advantage of the retina display in a new way.

fabian9
May 24, 2011, 10:47 AM
I just realised that the tweet reads that the 3Gs will not be able to run iOS 5.x, this changes things a little bit as it could imply that it will run iOS 5, but not necessarily all maintenance updates thereafter.

This would make it the same as the 3G with iOS 4, for which support was dropped after 4.3.

Thoughts?

mack pro
May 24, 2011, 10:48 AM
And you guys give Android a hard time over fragmentation. A phone that's still being sold will not support the next OS is really messed up. Way to go Apple.

Winni
May 24, 2011, 10:50 AM
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

Apple and their partners still sold the iPhone 3G until a few months ago and now that phone is also no longer supported and you cannot even get the latest iOS 4 updates for it.

It won't surprise me at all when iOS 5 will only run on the iPhone 4 and later models. It also won't surprise me when the AppStore rules will be changed so that all new(!) apps must have full retina display support.

But don't worry - the iPhone 4 won't have much life left in it either. It's a safe bet that the next iPhone models will have dual core CPUs (because everybody else in the industry is already using them), and it's only a question of time when a dual core CPU will be required to run new versions of iOS. Maybe that will already happen with the first point update of iOS 5.

After that, LTE capability could be a must-have hardware feature to phase out iPhone models that don't have it. Or maybey the just "draw the line somewhere" else. Apple won't run out of shallow excuses to drop the support for older hardware.

JarScott
May 24, 2011, 10:51 AM
I don't think this is bad. The 3G and 3GS are some what outdated models. To abandon them is fine. However, I don't like how they're refering to the iPhone 4 as being old. I'm buying one tomorrow, after it's been out for about a year. It is still the latest in technology. I hope it continues to get all the major updates.

kasei
May 24, 2011, 10:51 AM
Apple's A4 is based on Cortex-A8... A few hundred MHz difference isn't the deal-breaker here. Retina display and gyroscope have nothing to do with 3GS' capability, it could still run iOS 5 with those features disabled unless Apple prohibited it. The minor difference in CPU and the extra RAM are the only differences that affect the performance.

Yes true, but the previous poster was implying they are the same or in his words identical when in fact they are not. A few hundred MHz difference just might be the deal breaker when Apple decides if the 3GS will support iOS 5 or not.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:51 AM
You are not counting the design changes that iOS5 may bring. Which could take advantage of the retina display in a new way.

Possible, but supporting different resolutions is a given since the ipad and iphone 4 do not share resolutions.

JASApplications
May 24, 2011, 10:52 AM
And you guys give Android a hard time over fragmentation. A phone that's still being sold will not support the next OS is really messed up. Way to go Apple.

That's maybe just because Android is ****!

lilo777
May 24, 2011, 10:52 AM
I am guessing it is the lack of RAM on the 3GS that presents the biggest challenge for iOS 5.

You are wrong. Specs don't matter ;)

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 10:52 AM
And you guys give Android a hard time over fragmentation. A phone that's still being sold will not support the next OS is really messed up. Way to go Apple.

Currently two iPhones are sold by Apple.

How many Android devices are there by how many different manufacturers?

Please ... :rolleyes:

Winni
May 24, 2011, 10:53 AM
iPhone 3G got 3 years of support. (1.x through 4.x)


Actually, it was iOS 2.x to 4.2.1, not the entire 4.x family. 4.3 was the first version of iOS that no longer ran on the 3G.

KnightWRX
May 24, 2011, 10:54 AM
So let's assemble all facts here :

The original iPhone and the iPhone 3G both got 3 releases of iOS.
The iPhone 3GS has the same amount of RAM as the iPad 1
The iPhone 3GS has a very similar SoC as the iPhone 4.
The iPhone 4/5 will have a different resolution than iPad 1/2 anyhow.

Yet this is telling us that the iPhone 3GS is only going to get 2 releases of iOS, with no details as to what would be blocking the latest iOS from working on it.

Doesn't. Make. Sense.

paolo-
May 24, 2011, 10:55 AM
More importantly, what will iOS 5 bring? iOS 4 was multitasking, I don't see what iOS 5 will bring. Unless there is some great feature that will be much more hardware intensive, I think cutting out the iPhone 3GS would be fairly moot as they are still selling it right now and probably will right up to the release of iPhone 5 + iOS 5. Also needing to be considered is the iPod Touch 4G which has only 256mb ram, just like the 3GS. Real difference being the screen and A processor.

Other than if they bring on some new feature that is required OS wide, it would just be kicking out a lot of people with phones that can be what most people do with their smartphones quite well.

dscuber9000
May 24, 2011, 10:55 AM
Laziness and planned obsolescence on Apple's part. It's going to piss a lot of people off.

If you don't know what "planned obsolescence" means, don't use it in a sentence and certainly don't accuse a company of it.

Born Again
May 24, 2011, 10:56 AM
There is a simple reason and hardly anyone has touched on it.

The 3GS is more than capable of running what ip4 can do but it's all about the $$$$$

They need to push more newer phones - make it enticing for those to upgrade because let's face it cellphones are getting close to where computers are

U don't need to upgrade ever year or two

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 10:56 AM
Actually, it was iOS 2.x to 4.2.1, not the entire 4.x family. 4.3 was the first version of iOS that no longer ran on the 3G.

Correct, but the point still stands (3 revisions of iOS).

lilo777
May 24, 2011, 10:56 AM
It means that Apple will have to continue supporting (feature and bug fix releases) iOS 4 for at least two more years. Just don't get confused when you want to update your phone next time which OS you need to use.

126351
May 24, 2011, 10:57 AM
With my 3GS getting kicked in the balls by iOS 4.death, I wouldn't consider installing iOS 5 even if I could.

D.

^ This.

Won't be buying an iPhone 5 either; haven't got much time for companies who issue software updates (4.3) that hamper current hardware (battery drain) in order to force the user into an upgrade.

mabaker
May 24, 2011, 11:00 AM
It is clear that the decision is a strategic one. They do NOT want to bother to invest more money into testing and development of iOS on older devices.

It is also clear that the ORIGINAL iPhone could run iOS 4.0 as easily as itís the case on the iPhone 3G. Especially judging the latest firmware upgrades really sped things up.

Wonder what they will do to the iPad classic as it has only 256 MB of RAM, though? :rolleyes:

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 11:01 AM
iPhone 1 got 3 years of support. (1.x through 3.x)
iPhone 3G got 3 years of support. (1.x through 4.x)

Stopping 3GS at 4.x would only be 2 years of support, which is inconsistent with past practices.

iPhone 3G shipped with iOS 2.0, not 1.x ...

Kaibelf
May 24, 2011, 11:01 AM
Laziness and planned obsolescence on Apple's part. It's going to piss a lot of people off.

Laziness? Unlike stupid MS who is STILL stuck supporting WinXP, Apple is expecting people to at least know that they can't expect the world when buying a sub-$50 smartphone. When the new phone and OS comes out, people can buy the current iPhone4, which will then drop in price and replace the 3GS on the low end. If that's too much to ask, then go buy a Razr or Jitterbug, because clearly Apple's not the company for you. They should continue to focus ahead, not kowtow to a bunch of cheap stragglers.

LoganT
May 24, 2011, 11:01 AM
Chances are the people who are buying the 3GS don't even care about updates.

KnightWRX
May 24, 2011, 11:01 AM
iPhone 3G shipped with iOS 2.0, not 1.x ...

That's most likely a typo, since 2.x to 4.x is 3 years and 3 releases. So pointing out that simple mistake on his part does not invalidate his post.

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 11:01 AM
Wonder what they will do to the iPad classic as it has only 256 MB of RAM, though? :rolleyes:

The iPad has a 1GHz CPU, which will help immensely.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 11:02 AM
It is clear that the decision is a strategic one. They do NOT want to bother to invest more money into testing and development of iOS on older devices.

It is also clear that the ORIGINAL iPhone could run iOS 4.0 as easily as itís the case on the iPhone 3G. Especially judging the latest firmware upgrades really sped things up.

Wonder what they will do to the iPad classic as it has only 256 MB of RAM, though? :rolleyes:

Misleading. 3GS and A4 share same processor architecture, so they can use same compiler. Apps have been 4x scales on the iphone 4, so it would simply mean supporting their current operating structure into iOS 5.

kasei
May 24, 2011, 11:04 AM
You are not counting the design changes that iOS5 may bring. Which could take advantage of the retina display in a new way.

Quite true and may also require different power requirements.

We know the drill. Rumors, released photos, a couple of lawsuits and then the big announcement. We will just have to wait...

lilo777
May 24, 2011, 11:04 AM
what else is new?

djpuma
May 24, 2011, 11:05 AM
too bad apple didn't state this about the iphone 3g and IOS 4, cause my 3g is sloooooooow and I can't go back to ios 3 because I didn't have any backups from then.

rodriguise
May 24, 2011, 11:06 AM
But performance won't be an issue. The cores are very similar in performance. One is a 600 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core and the other is ~800 MHZ Cortex A8 ARM core.



In this case, it does. The operating system is the product. Sure the hardware is nice, but it's just a conduit for the real product, iOS. It's what gets people to buy apps and make Apple revenue after the device is sold.

Try again. 3GS has 256MB of ram, iPhone4 has 512. 3GS has a much weaker PowerVR GPU (MBX-Lite) vs iPhone 4 SGX. This is big because the 3GS GPU does not support OpenGL 2.0, which the iPhone 4 does.

Blipp
May 24, 2011, 11:06 AM
Given how slow the iPhone 3G runs under iOS 4, I can't say I'm surprised. I bet iOS 5 will have optimizations for the A-class processors, and the A4 will be the cutoff.

My thoughts exactly. This may be an indication that there are big changes ahead for iOS5 that feed off of the higher specced iPhone 4. I personally am starting to find iOS to be a little long in the tooth and would welcome a full update rather than just taking features onto the same old iOS.

Reason077
May 24, 2011, 11:07 AM
Yes true, but the previous poster was implying they are the same or in his words identical when in fact they are not. A few hundred MHz difference just might be the deal breaker when Apple decides if the 3GS will support iOS 5 or not.

I suspect it has a lot more to do with the (lack of) Retina display than the CPU/RAM differences.

rodriguise
May 24, 2011, 11:08 AM
The iPad has a 1GHz CPU, which will help immensely.

iPad also has a much better GPU.

gramirez2012
May 24, 2011, 11:08 AM
Not surprised. My iPhone 3G is now an expensive paperweight since installing iOS 4.

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 11:09 AM
That's most likely a typo, since 2.x to 4.x is 3 years and 3 releases. So pointing out that simple mistake on his part does not invalidate his post.

And nor does anything said here invalidate mine, no matter how hard it is for 3GS'ers to get into their skulls.

The iPhone 3G could not run iOS4, no matter what the conspiracy theorists think. The hardware was awful for what was being asked of it, the processor was 412MHz and it came with a paltry 128mb of RAM.

Apple were probably more wary of a backlash from 3G users and decided to develop as working as possible release of 4.0, but in actual fact it should never have happened. No conspiracy theories, leave that nonsense aside.

The flack Apple, rightly, took over 4.0 on the 3G has probably led to them taking the point of view that the 3GS should be left aside for iOS5 because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they do release it, and it slows down the 3GS then they get complaints and accused of ruining peoples devices and forcing people to upgrade. If they don't release it, they get complaints and accused of forcing people to upgrade to access the latest features.

No doubt this post will be marked down, but the truth is that I'm one of THE most detailed, unbiased, informative, posters on here who takes time to think about the point I want make and the proceeds to put together well constructed posts. Sure, I can get annoyed at some people, but then again some people on here would be cool down periods on the forum I mod on, which thankfully isn't a tech one. There is so much potential for great debates on this forum, but it gets lost amongst the oneupmanship and general point scoring/ridiculing that goes on.

Mattsasa
May 24, 2011, 11:09 AM
No. They are not.

Everybody who buys an iPhone knows it was released way back in 2009.

iPhone 4, the big news was released in 2010. Everybody should know that. Apple says in the TOC that they will support a new phone for atleast 2 years after the release date which they did. Maybe that's why they delayed the launch to get out of the two year time-frame.

I got my kid a 3GS recently and he's happy with it. I knew the iPhone4 was there. I knew something impressive is going to show up soon.

I don't think Apple is forced to upgrade my son's 3GS. I knew that.

Well said

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 11:10 AM
Try again. 3GS has 256MB of ram

So does the ipad 1.

iPhone4 has 512. 3GS has a much weaker PowerVR GPU (MBX-Lite) vs iPhone 4 SGX.

False. Iphone 3GS has the SGX 535, just like the A4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphone_3gs#Processor_and_memory

This is big because the 3GS GPU does not support OpenGL 2.0, which the iPhone 4 does.

Additionally, the 3GS is driving 1/4 the pixels of the iphone 4, and even less than the ipad 1, lowering its RAM requirements. I don't think there's any question if the ipad 1 will get iOS 5.

German
May 24, 2011, 11:10 AM
3GS has a much weaker PowerVR GPU (MBX-Lite) vs iPhone 4 SGX. This is big because the 3GS GPU does not support OpenGL 2.0, which the iPhone 4 does.

Wrong!

iPhone 3GS = SGX535 = iPhone 4

SGX535@3GS -> 150MHz, 2 ALUs, 2 TMUs

the8thark
May 24, 2011, 11:11 AM
You know the hidden meaning if this rumour is true.
"Apple will stop selling the 3gs." Why? Because Apple sell no hardware that can not run the latest version of the OS. Be it mac, iPad/Pod or iPhone. And that's a very wise move. As not to fragment the iPhone user base.

So in a backward kind of way this is a "Apple might release a new iphone soon" rumour too.

entropi
May 24, 2011, 11:11 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

With my 3GS getting kicked in the balls by iOS 4.death, I wouldn't consider installing iOS 5 even if I could.

D.

me neither, I'm not so shure about upgrading my iPhone 4 either... (what iOS 4 did to my iPhone 3G is still fresh in my memory! I still haven't upgraded my iPhone 4 since I bought it...)

ciTiger
May 24, 2011, 11:12 AM
Time to sell the 3GS I have sitting on my desk for testing...

Rodimus Prime
May 24, 2011, 11:14 AM
Remember Apple stated that the original iPhone wasn't powerful enough to run iOS 4. Yet the iPhone 3G could, despite being almost identical in hardware. 400Mhz CPU, 128MB RAM etc. The 3GS was an actual hardware upgrade.

And that right there is proof that it is not that the hardware can not support it. It is the fact that Apple just drops support. The fact that the 3GS is STILL BEING SOLD they should put 1 more OS update on it.
It is crap like this why I know plenty of people are leaving iPhones. They are inconsistent and force obsolete the phones. I would not be surpised in the least to see Apple continue this practice. iPhone 4 will not get iOS 6. This is crap and we all know it.

Compared to Android the manufactures are all starting to show signs that they will start unlocking their boot loaders or are working on ways to do allow it. Now you have to give up your warranty to do it (as it should be) but they are starting to do it. Prediction is many of them will follow what Sony is doing. This extents the life of phones by quite a bit as you can start updating the OS.
Add to it that All major Android phones will be supported now for min 18 months with OS updates. At the end of that boot loaders can be unlock and you can install your own.

cvaldes
May 24, 2011, 11:15 AM
My guess is that this is a combination of overall system performance as well as graphics performance.

There are basically two resolutions: 1024x768 (iPad and iPad 2), and 960x640 (iPhone 4 and iPod touch 4).

Main memory is probably less of an issue since both the iPod touch 4 and original iPad have 256MB of RAM whereas the iPhone 4 and iPad 2 have 512MB of RAM.

pmz
May 24, 2011, 11:15 AM
You're all full of hot air.

Please, one of you know-it-alls explain to me how Apple is supposed to code new software for brand new devices with new capabilities based on new hardware components which are in most cases twice as fast/capable than their predecessor (3-4x in the case of the 3GS)....

...and at the same time make it all backwards compatible to a device with 1/4 the ability?

Someone explain to me, without using the word "magic" or "they could figure it out", how the 3GS and the iPhone 5 are supposed to run the same NEW software version iOS 5?

The iPhone 4 will run it, and it will do so poorly by comparison to the iPhone 5. You can bet on that with every dime you own.

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 11:16 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



me neither, I'm not so shure about upgrading my iPhone 4 either... (what iOS 4 did to my iPhone 3G is still fresh in my memory! I still haven't upgraded my iPhone 4 since I bought it...)

Likewise, I will be holding off on upgrading my iPhone 4 from 4.3.3 to iOS5.

I lost all my SH blobs for 4.1 and 4.2 when my iPhone 4 was replaced, so 4.3 is what I have to accept as the "norm" now.

pmz
May 24, 2011, 11:17 AM
And that right there is proof that it is not that the hardware can not support it. It is the fact that Apple just drops support. The fact that the 3GS is STILL BEING SOLD they should put 1 more OS update on it.
It is crap like this why I know plenty of people are leaving iPhones. They are inconsistent and force obsolete the phones. I would not be surpised in the least to see Apple continue this practice. iPhone 4 will not get iOS 6. This is crap and we all know it.

Compared to Android the manufactures are all starting to show signs that they will start unlocking their boot loaders or are working on ways to do allow it. Now you have to give up your warranty to do it (as it should be) but they are starting to do it. Prediction is many of them will follow what Sony is doing. This extents the life of phones by quite a bit as you can start updating the OS.
Add to it that All major Android phones will be supported now for min 18 months with OS updates. At the end of that boot loaders can be unlock and you can install your own.


You have absolutely, positively NO idea what you're talking about, whatsoever. Just forget about commenting on this topic, because you have nothing to offer.

Consultant
May 24, 2011, 11:17 AM
iOS 5 is not out.

3GS might be dropped when new iPhone comes out.

Upgrade cycle for Apple is over 2 years from device launch, still way longer than any competitor's.

Most with 3GS are eligible to upgrade to new iPhone when iOS 5 is upgraded. Those who bought 3GS late are not interested in the latest and greatest anyway.

*LTD*
May 24, 2011, 11:17 AM
Laziness and planned obsolescence on Apple's part. It's going to piss a lot of people off.

No. It's not.

More than an even chance that Apple will continue to break records in iPhone sales.

It might piss some people off. But who cares. It's a numbers game. Apple has decided that it is advantageous as part of their strategy, and they're likely right.

We heard the same bellyaching when Apple made a similar announcement about iPhone 3G support.

DomC
May 24, 2011, 11:18 AM
Why would MacRumors - or anyone else - consider some random dude's tweet as having any basis behind it at all?

For the same reason MacRumors and all other Mac pubs post those sporadic "Steve Jobs emails" as some sort of fact based Apple response to an issue. These sites don't actually investigate, they wait until some tidbit falls in their laps (posted elsewhere) and report it as pertinent information.

commander.data
May 24, 2011, 11:18 AM
Wonder what they will do to the iPad classic as it has only 256 MB of RAM, though? :rolleyes:
It's not the orignal iPad that's the glaring question. It's the 4th gen iPod Touch. If no iOS 5 support for the iPhone 3GS is due to a true technical requirement of 512MB of RAM, then even the latest iPod Touch won't make it with 256MB of RAM. I can't see Apple being that stingy with support for the 4th gen iPod Touch so RAM is not the issue.

As others have pointed out, the Apple A4 SoC in the iPhone 4, original iPad, and 4th gen iPod Touch uses the same CPU architecture Cortex A8 as the iPhone 3GS and 3rd Gen iPod Touch and the same PowerVR SGX535 GPU. The primary difference is the clock speed and 600MHz for the iPhone 3GS and 3rd gen Touch, ~800MHz for the iPhone 4 and 4th gen iPod Touch, and 1GHz for the original iPad. It's possible that Apple feels 800MHz is necessary for iOS 5 for responsiveness reasons, but really RAM is just as important here, and the 4th gen devices have a disadvantage due to the Retina Display since the GPU has to drive 4x the pixels and it isn't clocked 4 times higher.

As you say, if Apple does drop support for the iPhone 3GS in iOS 5, it's likely a product positioning decision than a technical one. The bigger issue is the lack of security updates for even recently sold iPhone 3GS since given Apple's past actions when support is dropped, I can't see them maintaining the iOS 4.x branch just to support security updates for the iPhone 3GS once iOS 5 is out.

Consultant
May 24, 2011, 11:19 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

Most Android devices are not supported after a FEW MONTHS. Never mind 2 years of software upgrades Apple offers.

gpat
May 24, 2011, 11:20 AM
It won't happen. If it does, i'm switching to WP7.

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
You have absolutely, positively NO idea what you're talking about, whatsoever. Just forget about commenting on this topic, because you have nothing to offer.

I just can't read his posts because I utterly loathe the character his username is based on ... ruined my damn childhood. :D

infiniphonic
May 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
When upgrade time came around, i had a choice between the 3GS and the 4. I happened to have enough cash to choose between the two. After seeing all of the problems that had developed with most peoples 4's, that i had witnessed first hand, (BAD scratches, home button issues, reception problems, dosen't actually run that much better than the 3GS on the same version of iOS), i chose the 3GS. I'm glad i did. I like the design better (curved vs. flat, no glass back). I definately get better reception than anybody that i know that has a 4. It's my only phone so, it gets a LOT of use! If my 3GS dosen't get 5.0, so what. I'm happy with what i have. Maybe the next model will be as much of an improvement as the 3GS was over the 3G. If so, i guess that's what i will get when upgrade time rolls around again. Just my long winded 2 cents.

Reason077
May 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
Not surprised. My iPhone 3G is now an expensive paperweight since installing iOS 4.

Upgrade it to 4.2.1 using factory restore. Configure as a new phone - do NOT restore from backup (you can still sync your contacts, apps, etc as usual). You should find it runs a lot better. Not like a 3GS or iPhone 4, but good enough. Repeat procedure every 3-6 months as required.

Unfortunately iOS 4 on the 3G seems to slow down over time. Built in obsolescence, perhaps?

stockscalper
May 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
Most Android devices are not supported after a FEW MONTHS. Never mind 2 years of software upgrades Apple offers.

Wrong!

Rodimus Prime
May 24, 2011, 11:24 AM
You have absolutely, positively NO idea what you're talking about, whatsoever. Just forget about commenting on this topic, because you have nothing to offer.


I know the truth stings but you might as well accept it. I find it funny people are defending Apple on this.
It is more you have nothing to offer. When I see multiple people here who understand hardware a hell of a lot better than you calling out Apple on this and then examples of same hardware one gets upgraded the other does not. That is example of proof that Apple is full of crap.

I

iOS 5 is not out.

3GS might be dropped when new iPhone comes out.

Upgrade cycle for Apple is over 2 years from device launch, still way longer than any competitor's.

Most with 3GS are eligible to upgrade to new iPhone when iOS 5 is upgraded. Those who bought 3GS late are not interested in the latest and greatest anyway.

2 years of support my rear end. Apple really only provided 1 year of support. The other were mostly security fixes and minor things but I still only call it one year of support.
If you bought a 3GS after iPhone 4 was released you got 0 years of support. This is BS by Apple. It not the that the hardware can not support it. It is the fact that Apple is being Apple.

Another good example of proof of BS by Apple is the original iPhone could NEVER do MMS and yet people claimed that reason was because the hardware could not support it and we all know that is complete BS.

WeegieMac
May 24, 2011, 11:24 AM
There's a lot of Kevin Spacey's in here today ...

foodog
May 24, 2011, 11:26 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

I did that... and 6 months later I bought my way out of the contract and went back to iPhone

dave420
May 24, 2011, 11:26 AM
Really... as long as iOS 4 keeps getting updated (like they've done with MacOSX 10.5 even though 10.6 is most current) it should be fine.

Exactly! I haven't noticed the speed problems on the 3GS that others have reported, but that's mostly because I never used the 3GS before iOS 4. All I know is it runs a lot faster than my 2G does :)
But if they are going to drop support for the 3GS in iOS 5 then they should really still port security fixes to iOS 4.

iScott428
May 24, 2011, 11:26 AM
Not surprising at all really and so what my 3Gs will not get iOS 5, I think that is more of a good thing than a bad one. The 3Gs is struggling to say the least to keep up with multitasking let alone running demanding programs such as djay. My 3Gs will just serve as 32gb ipod touch once I retire it, and become a back up if god forbid something were to happen with the 4s I will be getting.

The last thing Apple wants to do is give the user a poor experience due to hardware incapabilities. (what Microsoft does constantly...)

aegisdesign
May 24, 2011, 11:27 AM
Good. Maybe iOS will get some decent features added that otherwise they couldn't do if they still had to support the 3GS.

Rodimus Prime
May 24, 2011, 11:29 AM
I will say this now.
Mark my words iPhone4 WILL not get iOS6. Apple is setting a new standard 1 year of updates then FU.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 11:29 AM
You have absolutely, positively NO idea what you're talking about, whatsoever. Just forget about commenting on this topic, because you have nothing to offer.

In order to make a statement like that, one usually expects the claimant has actual evidence to support his extreme theory.

pmz
May 24, 2011, 11:30 AM
In order to make a statement like that, one usually expects the claimant has actual evidence to support his extreme theory.

Uh, wordsmith, his post was the evidence.

Mr. Gates
May 24, 2011, 11:32 AM
Any upgrade for me will have to wait until I break my i4
I have upgraded and had every single iPhone.
This time I want to wait a little.
This phone is good. Not perfect but good.
If you have a 3GS ,.... Dont let this be the reason to jump ship.
Its still a rock solid phone and to tell you the truth, I would have been fine with that !
I say: be happy and upgrade when you see a compelling reason ,... Even if its to a different phone like HTC or something.
Dont quit out of spite.
That's just stupid.

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 11:32 AM
Uh, wordsmith, his post was the evidence.

Then demonstrate it. Unless this is the future where arguments form themselves and I missed it.

iScott428
May 24, 2011, 11:32 AM
If you bought a 3GS after iPhone 4 was released you got 0 years of support. This is BS by Apple. It not the that the hardware can not support it. It is the fact that Apple is being Apple.

Another good example of proof of BS by Apple is the original iPhone could NEVER do MMS and yet people claimed that reason was because the hardware could not support it and we all know that is complete BS.

What a waste of an upgrade, your a CHEAP consumer who just wants to be seen with the device, and you passed up the greatest phone ever made for 150$.

Rodimus Prime
May 24, 2011, 11:33 AM
In order to make a statement like that, one usually expects the claimant has actual evidence to support his extreme theory.

I did provide a list of things backing that statement pmz just went off insulting me. the quoted post was using had a good part of it.
iPhone 1 and iPhone 3G same hardware. 3G gets update iPhone 1 does not.

3G can do MMS iPhone1 can not. Yet they have the same hardware.
It makes it REALLY hard to use the argument iPhone1 can not support the update. It is more Apple forcing obsolete.
3G no wall paper (that takes next to no system resources) and rest can. Crap like that shows that Apples "hardware" excuses has more holes in it that swiss cheese.

AppleDroid
May 24, 2011, 11:35 AM
Most Android devices are not supported after a FEW MONTHS. Never mind 2 years of software upgrades Apple offers.

That isn't entirely true my Evo has received several updates and is getting the next major release in June. It's only a year old but more than 'a few months'.

kazmac
May 24, 2011, 11:36 AM
Even more fuel to the fire not renewing my contract come September. I don't like iOS 4.3 on my 3Gs anyway (seems to work better on my iPad).

While I don't agree with making hardware obsolete after 1 or 2 OS cycles, this is a common practice for Apple to phase out older hardware to get consumers to update if they want that new OS.

GQB
May 24, 2011, 11:36 AM
The fact that Apple is still selling the iPhone 3GS makes this pretty ridiculous. At least 3G supported some versions of iOS 4, although it didn't get much of the new features and made it laggy as hell. Buy a brand new phone today and you won't be able to get the newest OS in few months. Well, I guess it is Apple's way to make money.

This whole "Apple's goals is to screw us out of more money" meme gets really childish and old after a while.
Yes, they're a corporation with a charter to make a profit.
But either understand that Apple cuts things loose before the sludge makes their products look like Windows, or switch to a platform that aims only at the lowest common denominator.
When iOS 5 comes out, it will be along with the iPhone 5 (or 4gs), and the 3GS will NOT be being sold.

In short, I'm perfectly fine with a clearly defined limit being set to to backwards compatibility. If I want the new features, its up to me to get the hardware that will support it.

zero7
May 24, 2011, 11:38 AM
one apple
multiple apples

one 3G
multiple 3Gs

maybe he's just pointing out the obvious: the 3G won't be upgradeable to iOS 5 (because it's stuck at 4.2.1)

*LTD*
May 24, 2011, 11:38 AM
I know the truth stings but you might as well accept it. I find it funny people are defending Apple on this.

There's no need to defend. This is typical of Apple, and the strategy works.

Mr. Gates
May 24, 2011, 11:38 AM
Good. Maybe iOS will get some decent features added that otherwise they couldn't do if they still had to support the 3GS.

Like a home button that "just works"
:rolleyes:

PhoneI
May 24, 2011, 11:39 AM
Well... It's my opportunity to sell my 3Gs and move to Android ^^"...

Oh the irony!!!

If you want a platform where older devices are supported by newer OS releases, I would stay clear of android

Biolizard
May 24, 2011, 11:39 AM
If you bought a 3Gs after the 4 was out, you are a fool. What a waste of an upgrade, your a CHEAP consumer who just wants to be seen with the device, and you passed up the greatest phone ever made for 150$.

By your sig, and post composed of sheer arrogance, you can clearly afford every bit of kit Apple produces, but not everyone can. What's wrong with going for the slightly cheaper option if it gets you into the ecosystem and is kind to your budget?

chrmjenkins
May 24, 2011, 11:39 AM
In short, I'm perfectly fine with a clearly defined limit being set to to backwards compatibility. If I want the new features, its up to me to get the hardware that will support it.

Up until now, that has been 3 iOS revisions. True for iPhone 1, true for iPhone 3G.

BruiserBear
May 24, 2011, 11:40 AM
lol at people thinking their phone should have it's OS updated years after the fact. You are owed nothing in relation to firmware updates.


No grown adult should be complaining about this if they have any understanding of this stuff. Besides, if they did try and cram the next iteration of the OS onto the 3GS phone, you'd just have a crap ton of people whining about how poorly it runs on their old phone. You're better off with the older OS on an older phone.

logandzwon
May 24, 2011, 11:41 AM
I did provide a list of things backing that statement pmz just went off insulting me. the quoted post was using had a good part of it.
iPhone 1 and iPhone 3G same hardware. 3G gets update iPhone 1 does not.

3G can do MMS iPhone1 can not. Yet they have the same hardware.
It makes it REALLY hard to use the argument iPhone1 can not support the update. It is more Apple forcing obsolete.
3G no wall paper (that takes next to no system resources) and rest can. Crap like that shows that Apples "hardware" excuses has more holes in it that swiss cheese.

MMS was not supported on iphone1 because of the only contact you can legitimately get for it does not support MMS. In addition, lets be honest, the 3G should have never gotten any version of iOS4. Even 3.1.3 is a bit slow on those phones.

FearlessFreep
May 24, 2011, 11:42 AM
This isn't going to change. Apple's support of legacy devices is still way better than any other vendor out there, including Android.

When iOS5 releases, the 3Gs will be over 24 months old, regardless of whether they're still selling it or not. Apple's been consistent about their support for legacy devices - generally 2 years, give or take.

PhoneI
May 24, 2011, 11:42 AM
Wrong!

I have a Motorola Cliq XT sitting in my drawer that disagrees.

KnightWRX
May 24, 2011, 11:43 AM
lol at people thinking their phone should have it's OS updated years after the fact. You are owed nothing in relation to firmware updates.

Years ? The iPhone 3GS is currently sold... Unless iOS 5 is somehow scheduled for 2013, your Years argument doesn't quite hold.

iPhone got 3.x
iPhone 3G got 4.x
It stands to reasone iPhone 3GS gets 5.x

Unless Apple is now breaking the pattern and moving to only 2 iOS releases per model instead of 3.

Rodimus Prime
May 24, 2011, 11:43 AM
MMS was not supported on iphone1 because of the only contact you can legitimately get for it does not support MMS. In addition, lets be honest, the 3G should have never gotten any version of iOS4. Even 3.1.3 is a bit slow on those phones.

false. AT&T considers MMS and SMS to be the exact same thing in terms of contracts.

blow45
May 24, 2011, 11:44 AM
that's a rubbish rumor, they are not going to drop the 3gs in support no way, the 3g yes.

logandzwon
May 24, 2011, 11:44 AM
By your sig, and post composed of sheer arrogance, you can clearly afford every bit of kit Apple produces, but not everyone can. What's wrong with going for the slightly cheaper option if it gets you into the ecosystem and is kind to your budget?

TCO is not cheaper. look at ebay or cregslist. iPhone3Gs + $150 < iphone4

deellow
May 24, 2011, 11:46 AM
I have an iPhone 3G that I purchased 3 months before the release of iPhone 4 and iOS 4. At the time, I was an Apple noob and didnt realize the differences between the 3G and 3GS except for $100. I was prompted to update to iOS 4 when it was released and when I did, I bricked my phone after only enjoying it for 3 months. A part of me wants to warn these new $50 3GS owners not to take the risk in updating to iOS 5 if prompted, but a bigger part of me says "screw you, find out the hard way," especially after us 3G owners were bullied by self-righteous 3GS owners by saying "buy newer hardware" or "what do you expect from a two year old phone?" I was duped and since then have become an avid follower of all things tech and Apple and have downgraded my 3G back to iOS 3.1.3.

Ivan P
May 24, 2011, 11:47 AM
OS X 10.5 hasn't gotten a single update after 10.6 was released, unless you count security updates as updates.


It doesn't mean much though, they did release proper 10.x.x updates for Tiger after Leopard was released; just because they haven't done it with Leopard after Snow Leopard's release doesn't mean it is something they will "never do again".

logandzwon
May 24, 2011, 11:48 AM
false. AT&T considers MMS and SMS to be the exact same thing in terms of contracts.


All 3G and newer plans require you get a separate messaging plan, which cover both MMS and TXT. Those plans explicitly say they cover both TXT and MMS.

Original iPhone plans include 200 TXT, and offer an upgrade to unlimited TXT. There is no legitimate way to get a plan that except MMS on original iPhone.

Malcolm.
May 24, 2011, 11:52 AM
Laziness? Unlike stupid MS who is STILL stuck supporting WinXP, Apple is expecting people to at least know that they can't expect the world when buying a sub-$50 smartphone. When the new phone and OS comes out, people can buy the current iPhone4, which will then drop in price and replace the 3GS on the low end. If that's too much to ask, then go buy a Razr or Jitterbug, because clearly Apple's not the company for you. They should continue to focus ahead, not kowtow to a bunch of cheap stragglers.

MS supporting Windows XP doesn't make them "cheap" or "lazy." A large portion of XP's userbase are corporations and businesses whose infrastructures are built around XP, making yearly OS upgrades difficult and impossible. Yes, how dare MS continue to support those customers with technical support and security patches, instead of just taking the Apple route of planned obsolescence and leaving them behind. :rolleyes:

rufwork
May 24, 2011, 11:52 AM
I've come to accept that Apple's advantage is rigid control of the platform. If that means making something obsolete quickly, fine. Jobs says to buy more hardware, and that's often what many end up doing.

In an industry of obsolescence, Apple is king, and our user experience (not our wallets) benefits.

nunes013
May 24, 2011, 11:53 AM
Laziness and planned obsolescence on Apple's part. It's going to piss a lot of people off.

it would also piss a lot of people off when their 3GS cannot run iOS 5 smoothly. You know how many people complained because iOS 4 on the 3G. Either way Apple cannot win. They release it and get yelled at because it laggy or they don't release it and get yelled at because their device isn't running the latest firmware. I support the decision to not release it. As much as it sucks it will cause the least amount of problems in the long run.

However with these phones getting such advanced hardware like dual core processors maybe the phones will get an expanded OS life span in the near future.

chris975d
May 24, 2011, 11:54 AM
Yes true, but the previous poster was implying they are the same or in his words identical when in fact they are not. A few hundred MHz difference just might be the deal breaker when Apple decides if the 3GS will support iOS 5 or not.

I was referring to "core" hardware, being the things that factor into how fast/powerful apps can be, which would be the RAM, CPU, and GPU. The secondary hardware (screen resolution, front facing camera, etc) don't determine the speed of apps or of the OS. So in that aspect, the 3GS and iPhone 4 are almost identical, except for the doubling of the RAM. Same processor ("A4" is just Apple's name for their Cortex A8 more or less), exact same GPU. An analogy would be two hypothetical iMacs with the same CPU and exact same GPU, but iMac "B" having a higher res screen, iSight camera, double the RAM, and whatever other trivial accessories you want to add. Now, is iMac "B" that much more POWERFUL of a computer than iMac "A"? Out of all that "extra" stuff listed, the only thing that could even have an impact on app/OS performance is the RAM. None of the other stuff matters.

Pink∆Floyd
May 24, 2011, 11:56 AM
I don't understand how any of this is a surprise...

It's completely logical in all aspects

Rodimus Prime
May 24, 2011, 11:56 AM
All 3G and newer plans require you get a separate messaging plan, which cover both MMS and TXT. Those plans explicitly say they cover both TXT and MMS.

Original iPhone plans include 200 TXT, and offer an upgrade to unlimited TXT. There is no legitimate way to get a plan that except MMS on original iPhone.

again I repeat what I said. To AT&T SMS and MMS is the exact same thing in terms of contract. unless you want to explain to my while across multiple phones (no data plans) dating back to before the iPhone they never cared nor charged fees for doing MMS. I can list the phones used and many of them were not messaging phones at all.

You have 2 Samgsung Blackjack II, 3 different Sony phones, 2 different LG, Blackberry 8900 (with out a data plan) and another with.
That is all on AT&T across multiple phones, Users, and contracts many of them do not have a data plan of any type and data used was charge per use but sending MMS cost nothing.

AT&T considers MMS and SMS to be the exact same thing.

glenncal
May 24, 2011, 12:00 PM
According to http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf:

Apple will provide you any iPhone OS software updates that it may release from time to time, up to and including the next major iPhone OS software release following the version of iPhone OS software that originally shipped from Apple on your iPhone, for free. For example, if your iPhone originally shipped with iPhone 2.x software, Apple would provide you with any iPhone OS software updates it might release up to and including the iPhone 3.x software release. Such updates and releases may not necessarily include all of the new software features that Apple releases for newer iPhone models.


According to the above, Apple will have to release iOS 5.x to the iPhone 3GS since they are still selling iPhone 3GSs which are originally shipped with 3.x software (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC555?mco=MTg0NzUwNzg#overview). Note that Apple explicitly say "that originally shipped from Apple on your iPhone", which means that they must cater for these iPhone 3GSs which are shipping with iOS 4.x.

It might be that the 3GS will not receive many of the iOS 5.x features but, according to the above it should definitely receive some sort of update.

Edit: Reading it again, the wording might mean that Apple will ship up to the original OS on your iPhone model +1, but it's ambiguous because Apple didn't say "that originally shipped from Apple on your iPhone model"

BruiserBear
May 24, 2011, 12:00 PM
Years ? The iPhone 3GS is currently sold... Unless iOS 5 is somehow scheduled for 2013, your Years argument doesn't quite hold.

iPhone got 3.x
iPhone 3G got 4.x
It stands to reasone iPhone 3GS gets 5.x

Unless Apple is now breaking the pattern and moving to only 2 iOS releases per model instead of 3.

Yes, they still sell the 3GS for $50, and it has a very nice OS on it right now. Like I already said, you are owed nothing. They sold you the phone with a very nice OS, as is. After that you should be grateful if they update the OS, not expecting it like it's some sort of promise they made to you.