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MacRumors
May 26, 2011, 09:05 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/26/apple-files-lawsuit-against-teenager-who-sold-white-iphone-4-conversion-kits-settlement-reached/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/whiteiphone4now-500x210.jpg


Last November, we highlighted (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/11/17/teenager-sells-130000-worth-of-white-iphone-4-conversion-kits/) the story of New York City teenager Fei Lam, who had managed to sell $130,000 worth of white iPhone 4 parts in just a few months to customers eager to get their hands on a white iPhone 4 has Apple continued to delay the release of the official model. Lam claimed that he had developed a secondhand relationship with someone at Apple's manufacturing partner Foxconn who had been supplying him with parts. At the time, the report noted that Lam had been contacted by a purported private investigator who claimed that Lam was trafficking in stolen goods, and Lam's site disappeared soon after.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/lam_white_iphone_lawsuit.jpg


Apple yesterday finally filed a lawsuit against Lam and his parents, claiming infringement and dilution of its trademarks and engaging in deceptive practices through his conversion kit sales through his website at whiteiphone4now.com. Apple did, however, also file a voluntary dismissal of the lawsuit at the same time, suggesting that a settlement has may have been reached, although Apple's request for dismissal without prejudice means that the company reserves the right to refile the claim at some point in the future.Defendent Lam willfully and without authorization has used Apple's trademarks in connection with the sale of his "White iPhone 4 Conversion Kits," which among other things included white front and back panels with Apple's logo and "iPhone" trademarks that are used in connection with the promotion and sale of Apple's well known iPhone 4 handheld mobile digital electronic devices. Defendant at all times knew that Apple never has authorized the sale of white panels for its iPhone 4 mobile devices, and that he obtained these panels from sources that were not authorized by Apple or any of its suppliers to sell them.Lam's parents were included in the suit under claims that they aided and abetted him by allowing him to engage in the activity while he was a minor under their supervision. Apple claims that Lam's actions dilutes Apple's trademarks and compromises its relationships with customers by causing confusion about whether Apple had authorized sales of white iPhones.

Apple's filing includes quotes from instant messaging exchanges between Lam and Alan Yang, a business owner in Shenzhen, China who was obtaining the parts for Lam, quotes that make clear that Yang was occasionally having difficulties getting parts shipped out as customs agents in Hong Kong were giving in troubles over the trademark issues.

Apple requested a permanent injunction barring the Lams from any further sales, forfeiture of all profits from the sale of white iPhone 4 parts, reimbursement for expenses occurred in pursuing the case, and additional financial penalties. With the request for dismissal, however, it is unclear what Apple may have obtained from the Lams in a potential settlement.

Article Link: Apple Files Lawsuit Against Teenager Who Sold White iPhone 4 Conversion Kits, Settlement Reached? (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/26/apple-files-lawsuit-against-teenager-who-sold-white-iphone-4-conversion-kits-settlement-reached/)



Pentad
May 26, 2011, 09:09 AM
Bravo, Apple! Way to go out of your way to crush the competition!


Sadly, if Microsoft would have done this (think Mike Rowe Soft incident) people would be rioting but Apple crushing a teenage is ok...

macduke
May 26, 2011, 09:10 AM
I'm sorry, but this is really dumb. And I mean really, really dumb.

zin
May 26, 2011, 09:10 AM
Way to go Apple! Crush a teenager in your path!

It's not as if he wouldn't have had money to pay for a settlement (he made $130,000, remember...).

gnasher729
May 26, 2011, 09:10 AM
I don't think Apple cares how much money they got (unlikely that it covered even their lawyers' expenses), but the result is that nobody will do it again.

Way to go Apple! Crush a teenager in your path!

Please explain what you mean by that. So a teenager manages to get into contact with criminals in China who are selling stolen pre-release parts for the iPhone, imports them into the USA, starts a website, starts a flourishing trade which damages Apple's reputation, so what is Apple supposed to do in your opinion?

kenypowa
May 26, 2011, 09:11 AM
Way to go Apple! Crush a teenager in your path!

And crush his parents as well. This should serve a warning sign who dare to tread on Apple!

lcdonnelly
May 26, 2011, 09:11 AM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

mrpither
May 26, 2011, 09:11 AM
Allright! Another reason to make me hesitant to admit to owning an iPhone, or iPod, or MacBook, or contemplate buying more Apple crap if this is how those profits are used. Time to fix my signature...

Cheffy Dave
May 26, 2011, 09:12 AM
It's not as if he wouldn't have had money to pay for a settlement (he made $130,000, remember...).

If you read the article, he has to forfit ALL profits as well as pay a penalty:cool:

MacMan86
May 26, 2011, 09:12 AM
I'm sure there are going to be people on here who will say "leave him alone, he's just a kid" but he must have known what he was doing was going to land him in trouble. He was fitting stolen parts on phones after all. It's certainly 'enterprising', I'll give him that.

RebelScum
May 26, 2011, 09:13 AM
Douche Move of the Century.

Schizoid
May 26, 2011, 09:13 AM
Women. Children. None were spared the master's wrath.

Cheffy Dave
May 26, 2011, 09:13 AM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

NO excuse, do the crime , do the time, a crime is a crime at any age, ever hear of consequences for your actions:rolleyes:

Doc750
May 26, 2011, 09:14 AM
Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

Tastic Bycrom
May 26, 2011, 09:15 AM
You know, if Apple hadn't created the demand and then dropped the ball on the white iPhone, this wouldn't have ever come up. Lawsuits are completely unnecessary in this case.

Crzyrio
May 26, 2011, 09:15 AM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

So if a teenager goes and kills someone you'd say the same thing?

The punishment may be a little harsh and a large sum of money but he should have thought of that before doing what he did.

eawmp1
May 26, 2011, 09:15 AM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

For all those complaining like this remember:

1) He reportedly illegally got stolen parts from Foxconn
2) His parts had the Apple logo and this is a trademark violation

He wants to engineer legitimate replacement parts without trademark logos, he might have a respectable business.

DrJohnnyN
May 26, 2011, 09:16 AM
NO excuse, do the crime , do the time, a crime is a crime at any age, ever hear of consequences for your actions:rolleyes:

This.

Cheffy Dave
May 26, 2011, 09:17 AM
Allright! Another reason to make me hesitant to admit to owning an iPhone, or iPod, or MacBook, or contemplate buying more Apple crap if this is how those profits are used. Time to fix my signature...

poor you, a crime is a crime:cool:

Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

grow up, Apple just is protecting its rights, HE's A THIEF! Get it?

SongEmu
May 26, 2011, 09:19 AM
Come on, guys. He was selling probably illegitimately obtained parts. It was bound to happen. Look at Psystar. This was a legally STUPID move on the kid's part to not expect some kind of lawsuit.

Also, how the f* does a teenage kid weasel his way into Apple's supply chain?

dustinsc
May 26, 2011, 09:19 AM
I'd feel sorry for the kid had he not made thousands of dollars off this.

MacMan86
May 26, 2011, 09:20 AM
You know, if Apple hadn't created the demand and then dropped the ball on the white iPhone, this wouldn't have ever come up. Lawsuits are completely unnecessary in this case.

I would be interested to see how that kind of defence would go down in court...

TylerSwingle
May 26, 2011, 09:20 AM
For all those complaining like this remember:

1) He reportedly illegally got stolen parts from Foxconn
2) His parts had the Apple logo and this is a trademark violation

He wants to engineer legitimate replacement parts without trademark logos, he might have a respectable business.

He wouldn't have sold half of what he did if it wasn't for the logo.

princealfie
May 26, 2011, 09:20 AM
Actually maybe the kid is the next Steve Jobs. He took the first step and was a genius.

roland.g
May 26, 2011, 09:21 AM
Sorry but anyone saying leave the kid alone, or Apple is too Big Brother/Big Business either needs to get their head on straight or grow up or both. Anything of the sort just makes you sound like you don't know what you are talking about.

bacaramac
May 26, 2011, 09:21 AM
I think he got what he deserved, but it's too bad he doesn't put his smarts into something "legal". I'm sure he would do well if he started a legitimate business.

DeaconGraves
May 26, 2011, 09:22 AM
For all those complaining like this remember:

1) He reportedly illegally got stolen parts from Foxconn
2) His parts had the Apple logo and this is a trademark violation

He wants to engineer legitimate replacement parts without trademark logos, he might have a respectable business.

This.

This suit is solely due to the guy using components that Apple had designed and paid for. It's not about crushing the competition or preventing people from modding their devices (if that was the case Apple would have sued Colorware a long time ago).

KCMichaelB
May 26, 2011, 09:22 AM
They should hire the kid. He was able to come out with the white iPhone before Apple.

RalfTheDog
May 26, 2011, 09:23 AM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

He was selling stolen property across state lines. He is lucky not to be in a federal prison. I would be very surprised if Apple had not sent him a warning first.

Remember, he and his parents were committing a federal felony.

inkswamp
May 26, 2011, 09:23 AM
It's fascinating to me to watch the rush some of you are in to denounce Apple and hold this kid up as a hapless victim of corporate America's greed. Really shows who actually reads the stories and who doesn't. This wasn't just an enterprising kid selling homemade kits out of his garage, and Apple filed the suit and then more or less killed it which means they did the minimum amount they are legally required to do to protect their trademarks without destroying the kid and his family.

Some of you really should learn how to read before climbing on the soapbox. You just look a little foolish standing up there.

scoobydoo99
May 26, 2011, 09:25 AM
How could anyone be down on Apple for this? Regardless of age, the perp engaged in a conspiracy with international criminals to import, market, and profit from stolen merchandise. Beyond that, it was merchandise not available through legitimate means for the most anticipated and hyped electronics product of the year. His website got national media coverage and probably actually did damage Apple's image and ability to market and control their trademarks.

Personally, I think Apple shouldn't have settled - they should have crushed the kid and his family and put them out on the street.

tCruzin4lyfe
May 26, 2011, 09:25 AM
Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

Really? The hacker crowd? That doesn't make sense but if they were to go after Apple let's just hope they get your info and expose it, use your credit card numbers and stuff. Why would you even wish something like that? This guy knew what he was doing, it was ILLEGAL! You people need to get over this "screw Apple, Im ashamed to admit I have Apple products" crap, it's old and ridiculous, go sell all your products then and use that money to send to this kid if you care that much to aid somebody who did something wrong.

ThunderSkunk
May 26, 2011, 09:25 AM
If Apple hadn't ticked so many people off dinking around with the white iPhone for what, 8 months??? ...this kind of thing wouldn't happen. But yeah, sue a kid for picking up your slack, Apple. ***** lawyers...


And "kills somebody" ? Selling scrap is the same as killing someone?

gri
May 26, 2011, 09:25 AM
Agree with thank got most of you say. Yes he is a kid, well, teenager - but at this age he should well know that what he did cannot be quite right. He is using stolen goods from another company to make a profit of exactly that company's name recognition. Stupid move of him and stupid of his parents that they didn't catch it - or even more stupid if not criminal if they were knowingly involved.
If this were a 5 year old kid than I would suggest Apple should hire him right away :D

Collected
May 26, 2011, 09:25 AM
Allright! Another reason to make me hesitant to admit to owning an iPhone, or iPod, or MacBook, or contemplate buying more Apple crap if this is how those profits are used. Time to fix my signature...

Time to stop over reacting. While the kid probably deservers a pat on the back for trying to start a business, what he was doing was clearly illegal. Possible theft and most certainly trademark infringement.

Doc750
May 26, 2011, 09:28 AM
Really? The hacker crowd? That doesn't make sense but if they were to go after Apple let's just hope they get your info and expose it, use your credit card numbers and stuff. Why would you even wish something like that? This guy knew what he was doing, it was ILLEGAL! You people need to get over this "screw Apple, Im ashamed to admit I have Apple products" crap, it's old and ridiculous, go sell all your products then and use that money to send to this kid if you care that much to aid somebody who did something wrong.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3BnP8E0QBgg/TaU4vDIzUaI/AAAAAAAAAB0/8ZKl0qE7ceg/s1600/why%25252Byou%25252Bmad%25252Bbro.jpg

Mattie Num Nums
May 26, 2011, 09:30 AM
Apple had no choice. They had a teenager showing them up in this case. Apple couldn't produce the White iPhone but a kid could.

RalfTheDog
May 26, 2011, 09:32 AM
Who here thinks that selling consumers a bunch of stolen defective parts is a good thing? Anyone?

By selling detective parts with the Apple logo, not only was he committing theft, he was damaging Apple's reputation.

Thunderhawks
May 26, 2011, 09:32 AM
You know, if Apple hadn't created the demand and then dropped the ball on the white iPhone, this wouldn't have ever come up. Lawsuits are completely unnecessary in this case.

If you'd apply some logic, you would figure out and it is known that there must have been a production problem.
Apple was not going to ship something subpar, just to appease the public or critics. It was discussed in other threads at length.

Lawsuits are necessary, when somebody impacts ones business.

1) Stolen goods
2) Knowingly using stolen goods

etc.etc..

The "only a teenager" excuse is getting old. Today's teenagers who have not been taught what is right or wrong, need to be taught.

The guy was sophisticated enough to run a website, collect money and had no morals and ethics.

If his parents didn't teach him, somebody else had to.

If you had a company selling a product that is a success and somebody would steal parts from you and make money from it and potentially harm the products reputation, you would do nothing?

To all the bash Apple on this posters, are you for real?

Apple did nothing wrong here. They shut down an illegal business, using their parts and potentially damaging their reputation!

Very typical comments for USA where the victim is always the guilty party.

d0minick
May 26, 2011, 09:32 AM
WHILE I believe apple has a right here, who would want someone selling something with your trademark, I do think they should leave the kid alone.

He sold conversion kits to something Apple would not release. And you had to have an iPhone to do it, so Apple sold a iPhone, and the kid made a bit of cash for his smarts on knowing the demand of a market. No harm no foul. Now that Apple sells the white version again, i am sure his demand will go down.

Let the kid win.

tCruzin4lyfe
May 26, 2011, 09:32 AM
If Apple hadn't ticked so many people off dinking around with the white iPhone for what, 8 months??? ...this kind of thing wouldn't happen. But yeah, sue a kid for picking up your slack, Apple. ***** lawyers...

The kid didn't pick up any slack, what are you talking about? They didnt release it for a few reasons. Light leakage being a major one and some issues with taking pictures. Imagine if Apple did release it on launch with those exact parts, Antennagate PLUS the white iPhone having light leakage and camera issues, media would have went to town with all of that crap. Trust, Apple would have released the white iPhone 4 as soon as they could because the demand was high regardless.

applemagic123
May 26, 2011, 09:33 AM
This is really really stupid. And I mean REALLY stupid. I don't think I'm going to buy the next iPhone, even if it is on tmobile.

In a couple years, people will catch on to what apple is doing and will realize.

inkswamp
May 26, 2011, 09:34 AM
Apple had no choice. They had a teenager showing them up in this case. Apple couldn't produce the White iPhone but a kid could.

Mattie Num Nums had no choice to post this. Everyone else understood that the kid wasn't producing the parts himself. Mattie couldn't read the entire article but everyone else could.

tCruzin4lyfe
May 26, 2011, 09:35 AM
Image (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3BnP8E0QBgg/TaU4vDIzUaI/AAAAAAAAAB0/8ZKl0qE7ceg/s1600/why%25252Byou%25252Bmad%25252Bbro.jpg)

Nobody is mad, people are just retarded, use common sense. Ugly pic though lol

d0minick
May 26, 2011, 09:36 AM
The guy was sophisticated enough to run a website, collect money and had no morals and ethics.



I just have a slight problem with this statement. You can't actually believe people in good business have morals and ethics. Our beloved Apple would not exist if that were the case. My believe Microsoft would not exist if that was the case.

Morals and ethics are not, and will never be good business. Good for personal life, yes, but they are never applied in business.

kny3twalker
May 26, 2011, 09:36 AM
so apple is suing all the other white iphone 4 kit resellers? or just this teenager?

and **** lawyers.

Adey
May 26, 2011, 09:36 AM
I'd be interested to see what the settlement was - it may not be all bad for the kid (but probably is).

BTW @princealfie "Apple fanboyism is just as bad as Nazism."
I hope you're quoting an idiot here and that's not your actual belief, otherwise you are what we in the UK call "a pillock".

Mattie Num Nums
May 26, 2011, 09:37 AM
Mattie Num Nums had no choice to post this. Everyone else understood that the kid wasn't producing the parts himself. Mattie couldn't read the entire article but everyone else could.

So am I wrong here? Was the White iPhone produces or just hung out like a carrot in front of us for 8 months? Bottom line is this... the white iPhone didn't exist until this kid produce the conversion for it.

macinnv
May 26, 2011, 09:38 AM
Good. Now lets hope they go after every iPhone accessory maker.

RalfTheDog
May 26, 2011, 09:38 AM
WHILE I believe apple has a right here, who would want someone selling something with your trademark, I do think they should leave the kid alone.

He sold conversion kits to something Apple would not release. And you had to have an iPhone to do it, so Apple sold a iPhone, and the kid made a bit of cash for his smarts on knowing the demand of a market. No harm no foul. Now that Apple sells the white version again, i am sure his demand will go down.

Let the kid win.

They were not conversion kits, they were original parts owned by Apple and stolen by this kid. They were probably intended to be destroyed because they were defective and having them on the market would damage Apple's reputation.

This is no different than if broken iPhones were taken off the assembly line, shipped to this kid, then sold by him.

Theft is theft.

PeterQVenkman
May 26, 2011, 09:38 AM
poor you, a crime is a crime:cool:

If only the whole world was as black and white as this.

Full of Win
May 26, 2011, 09:39 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Pretty low going after a teenager in the court system. It was Apple incompetence that made the market he was addressing in the first place.

napoleon3
May 26, 2011, 09:40 AM
Actually maybe the kid is the next Steve Jobs. He took the first step and was a genius.

Apple is wrong for doing this, I hope they do get put in their place. back in the 90s Jobs did an interview about how nasty he thinks Microsoft and Dell are for throwing their weight around and talking all this. old hippie "im an artist nonsense" and what dose apple do when they saved themselves from getting bought out by IBM. fast forward a decade and now they are so large and behaving worst than microsoft. and like most bullies apple is picking on the weak (why dont they focus on fighting their real competition), when steve Jobs was 'coming up' he certainly didn't play by the book, an old saying is "you dont get that big without getting some dirt on you"

Jobs is on the way out his health is going on him and his years are getting up there, the sheep will scatter and the fanboys will realize how stupid they were for drink the Apple koolade .

In tech unconventional things are the future look at what youtube has done..

*LTD*
May 26, 2011, 09:40 AM
If Apple doesn't do this it's a signal that teenagers can be used to do the work of either a) adult criminals dealing in stolen goods b) criminal organizations dealing in stolen goods, or c) any segment of the competition that deals in stolen goods in order to undercut and dilute Apple's brand.

And the kid's a thief in the first place. He isn't innocent.

Ankit1088
May 26, 2011, 09:41 AM
I wonder if they included the $130,000.00 in his yearly income tax filing?
;)

#2
And whats going to happen to that dusche bag over there in China, I bet he was the mastermind of this plan...

d0minick
May 26, 2011, 09:42 AM
They were not conversion kits, they were original parts owned by Apple and stolen by this kid. They were probably intended to be destroyed because they were defective and having them on the market would damage Apple's reputation.

This is no different than if broken iPhones were taken off the assembly line, shipped to this kid, then sold by him.

Theft is theft.

I understand what you are saying.

But it is not theft, he bought it from the manufacturer. This is the same thing businesses that fix iPhones do, but the items were straight from foxconn.

Calling them conversions kits is just marketing, we know it is a front and a back.

So i do not believe it is stealing, but I believe Apple has a case of the kid selling trademarked items.

EDITED to fix glaringly bad spelling. LOL

macinnv
May 26, 2011, 09:42 AM
This is really really stupid. And I mean REALLY stupid. I don't think I'm going to buy the next iPhone, even if it is on tmobile.

In a couple years, people will catch on to what apple is doing and will realize.

Dont worry, T-Mobile will be sold and Sprint will be bankrupt before Apple allows them to have the iPhone. Apple wouldnt dare bring their precious iPhone to those carriers. Its beneath them. I cant wait for everyone to whine about how their bill has gone up 10-15% because of a lack of competition.

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 09:43 AM
At first I thought Apple was the bad guy until I read this line:

"Lam claimed that he had developed a secondhand relationship with someone at Apple's manufacturing partner Foxconn who had been supplying him with parts."

Now I have no pity for the kid. He's definitely old enough to know right from wrong.

He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

Um. No. If this was a murder instead of buying stolen parts and reselling them would you still feel the same? Wrong is wrong.

mrial
May 26, 2011, 09:44 AM
So am I wrong here? Was the White iPhone produces or just hung out like a carrot in front of us for 8 months? Bottom line is this... the white iPhone didn't exist until this kid produce the conversion for it.

And oh the scandal of Apple releasing a iphone with known light bleeding issues! Sorry, the kid did nothing except release stolen parts that didn't meet Apples quality requirements.

gmcalpin
May 26, 2011, 09:45 AM
If you read the article, he has to forfit ALL profits as well as pay a penalty:cool:
That's what the suit was seeking. They also dismissed it, because they settled. I would assume he still had to forfeit all profits, but that's not necessarily what Apple settled for.

"With the request for dismissal, however, it is unclear what Apple may have obtained from the Lams in a potential settlement."

My guess is, the kid ratted out his suppliers, and Apple let him off "easy."

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 09:45 AM
If Apple hadn't ticked so many people off dinking around with the white iPhone for what, 8 months??? ...this kind of thing wouldn't happen. But yeah, sue a kid for picking up your slack, Apple. ***** lawyers...


Picking up slack?

You do understand why they didn't ship the white iPhone, right? It's because it was defective. THAT'S WHAT THIS KID WAS SELLING: Defective parts.

So not only was he stealing from Apple he was also ripping off his customers. All that money he made came from people who were then shipped defective parts. He ripped them off!

Tell me again why people are defending him? I really don't get it. Which part of what he did appeals to you?

thibaulthalpern
May 26, 2011, 09:46 AM
I'm sorry, but this is really dumb. And I mean really, really dumb.

If you explain why this is really dumb, it would be helpful. I don't see why it's dumb, but perhaps you have a point, but until you actually present it I wouldn't know.

marmiteturkey
May 26, 2011, 09:48 AM
Bravo, Apple! Way to go out of your way to crush the competition!


Sadly, if Microsoft would have done this (think Mike Rowe Soft incident) people would be rioting but Apple crushing a teenage is ok...

So if this teenager was fencing a stereo that someone had stolen from your living room, you'd let him off because he's a teenager? Don't be a dick.

Let me tell you - if I ever find the guy that stole my motorcycle last year (unlikely), I don't care HOW old he is. He's in serious trouble, legal or otherwise. I don't see why this guy was doing anything other than fencing stolen goods, and I'd be amazed if Apple didn't go after him. He's lucky they look ready to settle.

tCruzin4lyfe
May 26, 2011, 09:49 AM
Picking up slack?

You do understand why they didn't ship the white iPhone, right? It's because it was defective. THAT'S WHAT THIS KID WAS SELLING: Defective parts.

So not only was he stealing from Apple he was also ripping off his customers. All that money he made came from people who were then shipped defective parts. He ripped them off!

Tell me again why people are defending him? I really don't get it. Which part of what he did appeals to you?

EXACTLY! Trust me, I have been wondering this for the last 5 minutes, these people are just acting retarded. I don't get it either haha.

RalfTheDog
May 26, 2011, 09:49 AM
So am I wrong here? Was the White iPhone produces or just hung out like a carrot in front of us for 8 months? Bottom line is this... the white iPhone didn't exist until this kid produce the conversion for it.

He did not create a conversion kit. He was selling Apple property that Apple had not put on the market because it was defective. He created nothing, he just sold property that Apple paid for then decided to scrap because it was broken.

Good. Now lets hope they go after every iPhone accessory maker.

Lets hope they go after every company that is selling stolen Apple property.

so apple is suing all the other white iphone 4 kit resellers? or just this teenager?

and **** lawyers.

Just the ones that are stealing Apple parts off the assembly line, then reselling them.

WHILE I believe apple has a right here, who would want someone selling something with your trademark, I do think they should leave the kid alone.

He sold conversion kits to something Apple would not release. And you had to have an iPhone to do it, so Apple sold a iPhone, and the kid made a bit of cash for his smarts on knowing the demand of a market. No harm no foul. Now that Apple sells the white version again, i am sure his demand will go down.

Let the kid win.

These were parts that Apple owned. This is no different than if someone stole your car from your garage, then sold it to someone else.

I understand what you are saying.

But it is not theft, he bought it from the manufacturer. This is the same thing businesses that fix iPhones do, but the items were straight from foxconn.

Calling them conversions kits is just marketing, we know it is a front and a back.

So i do not believe it is stealing, but I believe Apple has a case of the kid selling trademarked items.

EDITED to fix glaringly bad spelling. LOL

They were parts owned by Apple. Apple paid for the parts, the parts were defective, so the parts were given to the kid to sell by people who worked at Foxconn. My guess is, the guy who was ordered to take them in for recycling just took them home.

thibaulthalpern
May 26, 2011, 09:49 AM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

Just because he's a teenager doesn't make it right. So if Philip Lam were an adult, then Apple can pursue?

I would think that the only difference Apple could make considering that Lam is a teenager, is to lessen the severity of the pursuit. For example, it could just pursue the $130,000 that Lam made and have an injunction to prevent Lam from making further conversion kits. If Lam were an adult, then the punishment sought would be higher.

Yamcha
May 26, 2011, 09:49 AM
This is stupid, Apple is stupid :P, I'm sorry but Apple is a huge company, and its not like they are not making good money, suing a teenager & parents is not the way to go =/, I could only imagine how hard it'll be on the parents and the teenager, I don't know how much Apple is suing for, but they won't be able to pay, they'll likely be out on the street?

Honestly who sues a teenager? this person is not an adult yet, not to mention the money they made the family likely already spent..

LazyMacGuy
May 26, 2011, 09:50 AM
Cheffy Dave has the right idea. Yes he was only a teenager but he knew what he was doing. If he had made $130,000 selling crack I'm sure you wouldn't be saying 'he's only a teenager'.

jonnysods
May 26, 2011, 09:51 AM
This kid gets what he deserves. For all you guys coming down on Apple, he was STEALING from them. They did go easy on this kid.

How could he find a contact in China to do this?

mygoldens
May 26, 2011, 09:51 AM
Apple, you suck!

Picking on a KID!

Who did something that YOU COULD NOT DO!

I now hate Apple! :mad:

BJMRamage
May 26, 2011, 09:51 AM
So, at first I though really, shutting down a teenager's site /suing him for selling these white iPhone plates. woah!! He made $100k+ !!

Wait, he used parts that were actually "Apple's" and sold those with the full Apple Trademark on them?

Well, that is stupid, and illegal. Case close he is a fool and should rightly be punished.

If they were white blanks, no harm/no foul.
The issue then becomes someone sees it has the Apple logo and says I thought Apple hadn't released the white iphone yet, the person's says they are shells, confuses the other one and Apple looks like the bad guy for not releasing the white iphone when somebody they know has one.
Guessing they could even be White iPhone parts that were "trashed" for letting light leak through and not passing Apple's QA.

Apple doesn't go after case manufacturers that sell their cases without the Apple Logo on them.

Wickedgardengtp
May 26, 2011, 09:51 AM
Teenager or not, that kid should have known better. The parents should have known better.

paul4339
May 26, 2011, 09:52 AM
So if a teenager goes and kills someone you'd say the same thing?

The punishment may be a little harsh and a large sum of money but he should have thought of that before doing what he did.

I don't consider the request of "a permanent injunction barring the Lams from any further sales, forfeiture of all profits from the sales ..." a little harsh (if that's what you are referring to).

Kids that get caught for selling stolen junk from the back of their cars get worse. He's lucky that he's not going to jail and getting a criminal record. (and what's with his parents?)


P.

marmiteturkey
May 26, 2011, 09:52 AM
If Apple hadn't ticked so many people off dinking around with the white iPhone for what, 8 months??? ...this kind of thing wouldn't happen. But yeah, sue a kid for picking up your slack, Apple. ***** lawyers...


Apple don't OWE you a white cellphone. You don't have a right to a white iPhone, unless you build it yourself. Judging from comments like this, I don't think you're smart enough.

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 09:52 AM
Who did something that YOU COULD NOT DO!


No he didn't.

Apple couldn't sell a white iPhone that worked right. Theirs were defective.

This kid couldn't sell a white iPhone that worked right. His were defective.

Same thing!

timirving
May 26, 2011, 09:53 AM
To those of you who are saying,
"..... Apple is wrong for going after a teenager..."
".....poor kid...."
".....I hope they go after all companies who produce iPhone parts..."
Etc...

1. Apple HAD to do this, it's part of defending your brand, legally. If they didn't, it would set a really bad, legal precedence that could further harm and dilute their brand.

2. Please don't think that the punishment put forth in the suit is set in stone. There are settlements to be had; how would you feel if they settled on just giving up the profits he made? I'm sure that's on the table.

3. This kid did not produce anything; purportedly, he received these from a foxcom employee, this is theft on both ends of that coin.

4. Really, the white iPhone would not exist if it wasn't for this kid? You're mad at apple for dangling the white iPhone like a carrot..... Grow up, it's called patience. You're probably the same people who would have cried the sky is falling if the white iPhone had any sort of manufacturing defect.

It's not even about "theft is theft", "do the crime, pay the time" or anything else like that (although those are good reasons), it's about what a large company needs to do legally to protect their brand. It has nothing to do with the age of the individual that committed the crime or the fact that, as a minor, his parents are legally held responsible. It's about protecting your company, all the people who work for it and all the suppliers who are involved.

I suspect, foxcom may be replaced sometime soon, there have been quite a few mess-ups.

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 09:53 AM
Cheffy Dave has the right idea. Yes he was only a teenager but he knew what he was doing. If he had made $130,000 selling crack I'm sure you wouldn't be saying 'he's only a teenager'.

+1 Not to mention isn't it better to get life lessons like this out of the way before he can be tried as an adult? I think it is...

If he were to have done this as an adult he could be looking at some serious jail time. I'm no law expert but I frequently watch court trials and there are many times where people who commit crimes like this sadly end up with more jail time than violent criminals.

benthewraith
May 26, 2011, 09:53 AM
Personally, I think Apple shouldn't have settled - they should have crushed the kid and his family and put them out on the street.

I seem to recall a certain Apple employee... he might be some higher up now I wouldn't know, that was involved in the production of a certain box a few years ago. This box enabled certain users to... how shall we say, get a service for free that one would ordinarily pay for. Now I cannot remember the Apple employee's name... it's on the tip of the tongue. If anyone could help me out here... drawing a blank, Steve Ballmer maybe? No, he's Microsoft. Steve Gates? No, that's not it. Drawing a blank here, someone please help me out. ;)

bdkennedy1
May 26, 2011, 09:53 AM
I work with Chinese manufacturers every day. If the materials produced are patented, the factory is not allowed to reproduce them for anyone else except the patent holder and cannot sell the parts.

It's a stupid kid that made a profit from illegally obtained, patented parts and Apple is going to make an example out of him to prevent anyone else from doing it in the future.

frunkis54
May 26, 2011, 09:54 AM
Apple should be going after foxconn. They are the bigger criminals in all this.

doctor-don
May 26, 2011, 09:54 AM
If you read the article, he has to forfit ALL profits as well as pay a penalty:cool:

forfeit

Douche Move of the Century.

Douche move? What is YOUR illegal business?

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS.

Women. Children. None were spared the master's wrath.

None WAS spared. Please get an education.

Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

hacker crowd? More criminal behavior that WE have to support with the high prices for our electronics.

You know, if Apple hadn't created the demand and then dropped the ball on the white iPhone, this wouldn't have ever come up. Lawsuits are completely unnecessary in this case.

TOTAL Bull!

Sorry but anyone saying leave the kid alone, or Apple is too Big Brother/Big Business either needs to get their head on straight or grow up or both. Anything of the sort just makes you sound like you don't know what you are talking about.

AMEN!

Lennholm
May 26, 2011, 09:55 AM
All of you who defend Apple for protecting their trademark; I'm not saying you're wrong but I hope you yourselves don't engage in or condone illegal file sharing, I see alot of parables in this.

marmiteturkey
May 26, 2011, 09:55 AM
This is stupid, Apple is stupid :P, I'm sorry but Apple is a huge company, and its not like they are not making good money, suing a teenager & parents is not the way to go =/, I could only imagine how hard it'll be on the parents and the teenager, I don't know how much Apple is suing for, but they won't be able to pay, they'll likely be out on the street?

Honestly who sues a teenager? this person is not an adult yet, not to mention the money they made the family likely already spent..

Why do you think they make good money? Maybe something to do with protecting their IP, making good business decisions, ensuring high quality of their products?

Why should we ignore him just because he's a teenager? Staggeringly naive. He's not going to jail, his life is not over. But he'll think damned hard before striking up business relationships with criminals and fencing stolen property again.

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 09:55 AM
I seem to recall a certain Apple employee... he might be some higher up now I wouldn't know, that was involved in the production of a certain box a few years ago. This box enabled certain users to... how shall we say, get a service for free that one would ordinarily pay for. Now I cannot remember the Apple employee's name... it's on the tip of the tongue. If anyone could help me out here... drawing a blank, Steve Ballmer maybe? No, he's Microsoft. Steve Gates? No, that's not it. Drawing a blank here, someone please help me out. ;)

Getting free phone service is not even close to being the same thing as tarnishing a company's reputation.

Did Woz damage the phone company's ability to attract new customers with his trick? No.

thibaulthalpern
May 26, 2011, 09:55 AM
Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

I never understand why people equate Apple with a "great/good marketing company". Remember, the hype that surrounds much of Apple's products is not primarily instigated by Apple itself but rather by its fans and also the fact that it makes a lot of revolutionary moves and that its products work for the most part.

Tech companies that actually do a lot more marketing are like RIM (look at their Playbook hype), Microsoft (look at its Zune announcements and Windows announcements), HP, Acer, etc.

Apple by far does very little to hype up its products.

I think a lot of people, yourself included, is conflating popularity of products and popularity of a company with hype. Those things don't mean the same. Popularity does not necessarily come through hype.

akm3
May 26, 2011, 09:57 AM
Actually maybe the kid is the next Steve Jobs. He took the first step and was a genius.

Exactly. He was smart, enterprising, shady. He infiltrated the Apple supply chain. Steve Jobs should give him a red lightsaber, and make the kid follow him around calling him master as he chokes the light out of interns.

Yamcha
May 26, 2011, 09:57 AM
This kid gets what he deserves. For all you guys coming down on Apple, he was STEALING from them. They did go easy on this kid.

How could he find a contact in China to do this?

Why does he deserve it? Teenagers make mistakes, he's not an adult, not to mention he only made a profit of $130,000? How much does Apple make? I mean this had little or no effect on Apple, as a punishment what should have been done is he should have been taken to a juvenile camp for teenagers as punishment..

mdatwood
May 26, 2011, 09:58 AM
They were not conversion kits, they were original parts owned by Apple and stolen by this kid. They were probably intended to be destroyed because they were defective and having them on the market would damage Apple's reputation.

This is no different than if broken iPhones were taken off the assembly line, shipped to this kid, then sold by him.

Theft is theft.

Okay, so where are the police with criminal charges? If theft is theft that is not a civil matter, but a criminal one.

thisday
May 26, 2011, 09:58 AM
Wow. Thats a great move. Thank you Apple for going agaist this criminal. By the way, file a lawsuit against Woz for buying parts from him. Now that is all good again, lets bash Lodsys for going against poor poor developers.
The one thing that makes me angry, more than using Windows, is the Apple fanboys. Apple farts they smell mint.

Yamcha
May 26, 2011, 09:59 AM
Sigh, there are always fanboys who back up Apple no matter what happens =/, just annoying..

gnasher729
May 26, 2011, 10:00 AM
But it is not theft, he bought it from the manufacturer. This is the same thing businesses that fix iPhones do, but the items were straight from foxconn.

1. Foxconn has no right selling these parts, so even if you buy them from Foxconn, they are still stolen goods.

2. He didn't buy from Foxconn. He bought from a Foxconn employee. Most likely now a Foxconn ex-employee.


Okay, so where are the police with criminal charges? If theft is theft that is not a civil matter, but a criminal one.

Difficult to prosecute, since the actual crime happened in China. Apple would have to go to the police in China, which then would have to ask for an extradition, and worst case he would end up in jail in China. On the other hand, Chinese police probably have higher priorities. If someone stole 100 iPads from an Apple Store in Germany, then sold them to an American who takes them in two suitcases to New York and sells them, Apple in the USA would have a hard time getting him convicted. However, the factory employee who stole the items could be in trouble.

doctor-don
May 26, 2011, 10:00 AM
So if this teenager was fencing a stereo that someone had stolen from your living room, you'd let him off because he's a teenager? Don't be a dick.

Let me tell you - if I ever find the guy that stole my motorcycle last year (unlikely), I don't care HOW old he is. He's in serious trouble, legal or otherwise. I don't see why this guy was doing anything other than fencing stolen goods, and I'd be amazed if Apple didn't go after him. He's lucky they look ready to settle.

It's called baseball bat justice.:D

CindyRed
May 26, 2011, 10:00 AM
Simply a very successful scare tactic by Apple.

I'm sure Apple legal was going to have a field day with the Lams. The instant suit retraction was probably the work of Apple execs. These fellas don't want people to think they can get away with theft of both intellectual and physical properties, but they don't want to sue a teenager either. This scared the kid enough that he'll think twice before doing something like that again, and Apple probably walked away with a name or two at the FoxConn plant to put in the unemployment line.

Not to mention the swift hand of Asian family justice all we Asian kids grew up with.

bacaramac
May 26, 2011, 10:00 AM
Apple should be going after foxconn. They are the bigger criminals in all this.

I don't believe Foxconn did anything wrong, they need to go after the guy who was stealing the parts (i.e. the guy who was actually taking parts from Foxconn).

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 10:01 AM
Okay, so where are the police with criminal charges? If theft is theft that is not a civil matter, but a criminal one.

Apple would have to complain to make this happen. They decided to go as easy as they could on the kid and do the minimum needed to stop him.

Amazing how people are still critisizing Apple for being mean even though they're being as gentle as they possibly can.

Sigh, there are always fanboys who back up Apple no matter what happens =/, just annoying..

Like this guy. So, what? I should be mad at Apple that they were as nice as possible? Is that what you're telling me?

Yamcha
May 26, 2011, 10:01 AM
I'm not saying that the boy shouldn't be punished, but suing is the not the way to go, what should've happened is for his crime he should've been sent to juvenile camp for kids, thats generally what happens when Teenagers commit crimes..

shartypants
May 26, 2011, 10:01 AM
I have to side with Apple on this, I doubt they required the kid and his parents to pay back any more than what they made from the kits, I think Apple just wants to keep people from trying to do this kind of thing again. If the kid somehow made the parts himself, then I would have something against Apple's actions, but to obtain them illegally is not an activity the kid should be participating in anyway.

marmiteturkey
May 26, 2011, 10:02 AM
Why does he deserve it? Teenagers make mistakes, he's not an adult, not to mention he only made a profit of $130,000? How much does Apple make? I mean this had little or no effect on Apple, as a punishment what should have been done is he should have been taken to a juvenile camp for teenagers as punishment..

Um... that's not how the law works.

You need a deterrent for others from doing this again. You need the punishment to fit the crime, not the damage done to someone else. If I steal 1m from someone with 2m in the bank, it's no more serious a crime than stealing it from someone with 200m. I still stole 1m. This guy stole, or was part of a racket that stole, Apple's property and sold it for a profit. Again, I don;t think you'd be quite so quick to forgive the 'teenager' if he stole your car, or your TV, or your macbook.

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 10:03 AM
Im so humbled to be surrounded by perfect people.

If any of you have acquired ANYTHING by non-legal means (shared music/movies)...youre a "thief".

If any of you have gone over the speed limit (by ANY amount), talked on the phone while driving (in applicable states)... you're a criminal.

Yes, he did a stupid and illegal thing. But, dont wave your banner of perfection while making his actions so black and white. If his family didnt have healthcare, and he used all the profits to treat his mother's cancer, would you still be so hypocritical?

His actions (though "wrong") were not harmful to anyone and only reflect poor judgement on himself.

Give the grace we all require...heaven knows ive far from perfect.

benthewraith
May 26, 2011, 10:03 AM
Getting free phone service is not even close to being the same thing as tarnishing a company's reputation.

Did Woz damage the phone company's ability to attract new customers with his trick? No.

Actually, it's the complete opposite.

The kid didn't damage Apple's reputation or impact sales at all. People were still required to purchase an iPhone 4 from Apple or third party to make the conversion. Whereas getting free phone service would impact profitability by rendering a service free.

In this case, Apple is still making money and the service the phone requires would still be paid to AT&T. Apple's stretched to prove damages and loss here. There is still the matter of theft here, however.

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 10:03 AM
Simply a very successful scare tactic by Apple.

I'm sure Apple legal was going to have a field day with the Lams. The instant suit retraction was probably the work of Apple execs. These fellas don't want people to think they can get away with theft of both intellectual and physical properties, but they don't want to sue a teenager either. This scared the kid enough that he'll think twice before doing something like that again, and Apple probably walked away with a name or two at the FoxConn plant to put in the unemployment line.

Not to mention the swift hand of Asian family justice all we Asian kids grew up with.

I too think this was a deterrent tactic to scare the kid. If he had done this when he was older he could have been in some serious ****.

Not to mention it sends the message to others who may try this to not do it.

Not to mention EVERY company does this to protect intellectual property. It's only news because its Apple.

noekozz
May 26, 2011, 10:05 AM
Simple supply and demand. The kid wanted to make a quick buck and he went about it the wrong way.

I think who they should really go after is the source within Foxconn, but alas, like the failed "drug war" we had during the 80's, it's just the same crap, different toilet. Go after the weak instead of going after the big fish.

In that case, Apple should sue every other aftermarket conversion kit that exists out there.

Reminds me of how installous is shun down upon in the hack section, yet free tethering from Cydia w/o a plan is praised upon by some. Bunch of hypocrites.

RalfTheDog
May 26, 2011, 10:05 AM
Okay, so where are the police with criminal charges? If theft is theft that is not a civil matter, but a criminal one.

The DA dropped the ball and did not file criminal charges against the kid and his family. Yes, it is sad, these criminals are not going to prison. That is not an excuse for Apple not to protect their own property.

If someone were to break into your house and steal your electronics, then sell them and the local DA were not to file charges, that would not remove your moral responsibility to take them to civil court.

tbrinkma
May 26, 2011, 10:06 AM
That's what the suit was seeking. They also dismissed it, because they settled. I would assume he still had to forfeit all profits, but that's not necessarily what Apple settled for.

"With the request for dismissal, however, it is unclear what Apple may have obtained from the Lams in a potential settlement."

My guess is, the kid ratted out his suppliers, and Apple let him off "easy."

That would be my guess as well. He probably gave up the 'contact' who was supplying him with the parts. I'm putting odds on him getting to keep the profits though. Finding someone who is leaking parts is much more important to Apple than the pocket change (to Apple) the kid managed to bring in.

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 10:06 AM
His actions (though "wrong") were not harmful to anyone and only reflect poor judgement on himself.



Actually, it's the complete opposite.

The kid didn't damage Apple's reputation or impact sales at all.

I totally disagree. How many of these phones are out there now? How poorly do the sensors perform? How much word-of-mouth spreads from these users?

ESPECIALLY now that there are real white iPhones out there so people who buy these phones may have no idea that they're conversions.

How did 'antennagate' start? By people complaining about the antenna. You can NOT deny that Apple's sales weren't affected by that. How many people are currently complainig about their proximity sensors to friends because of this guy?

He absolutely did harm to Apple's reputation.

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 10:06 AM
Im so humbled to be surrounded by perfect people.

If any of you have acquired ANYTHING by non-legal means (shared music/movies)...youre a "thief".

If any of you have gone over the speed limit (by ANY amount), talked on the phone while driving (in applicable states)... you're a criminal.

Yes, he did a stupid and illegal thing. But, dont wave your banner of perfection while making his actions so black and white. If his family didnt have healthcare, and he used all the profits to treat his mother's cancer, would you still be so hypocritical?

His actions (though "wrong") were not harmful to anyone and only reflect poor judgement on himself.

Give the grace we all require...heaven knows ive far from perfect.

While I agree to an extent the reason I'm glad he was caught is because he is still young and can't be charged as an adult (hopefully). If he was making these things for a group of friends I'm sure it would have been no biggie but by making friends with people at the manufacturing plant and receiving stolen parts that kind of changes things. If he continued this type of practice he would be hit insanely hard later in life since buying stolen merchandise and reselling it results in hefty fines and in some places hefty jail time.

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 10:07 AM
So to all the Lam-supporters out there.. What you're trying to say is...

If you owned a t-shirt website and a young kid named Lam shows up and befriends one of your employees with the intention to gain access to trademarked or licensed materials, you would let this happen?

You wouldn't stop this?

You would allow your employee to give your intellectual property away so someone else can make a profit on your materials?

I find that pretty hard to believe!

So if that's the case...

I personally would love to see you open a t-shirt website and sell some t-shirts with Apple's logo on it, you can even sell the signature blue Apple employee tees if you want too. Let's see how fast you're proven wrong by Apple!

The bottom line is simple - anyone who has responded in favor of Lam clearly does not know what it takes to run a successful business. I highly doubt any of you are actual business owners, if you were, you would understand the severity of the situation and why Apple had to do what they did to protect their brand.

Grow up please.. You're only wasting time and making yourself look ignorant!

mack pro
May 26, 2011, 10:09 AM
Apple's sueing teenagers now.

Jazwire
May 26, 2011, 10:09 AM
Maybe this did happen, Im not an expert on this case.

But a simple cease and desist from an Apple lawyer should have been step 1.

(And maybe it was, if Apple suing was step 1 then that was a dickhead move Apple, and if the kid ignored a C&D then he was even dumber and he got what he deserved.)

doctor-don
May 26, 2011, 10:09 AM
This is stupid, Apple is stupid :P, I'm sorry but Apple is a huge company, and its not like they are not making good money, suing a teenager & parents is not the way to go =/, I could only imagine how hard it'll be on the parents and the teenager, I don't know how much Apple is suing for, but they won't be able to pay, they'll likely be out on the street?

Honestly who sues a teenager? this person is not an adult yet, not to mention the money they made the family likely already spent..

What an idiotic comment!

Apple, you suck!

Picking on a KID!

Who did something that YOU COULD NOT DO!

I now hate Apple! :mad:

What an idiotic comment!

This kid gets what he deserves. For all you guys coming down on Apple, he was STEALING from them. They did go easy on this kid.

How could he find a contact in China to do this?

He probably asked his cousin in China to contact his cousin at Foxconn.

Or maybe it was completely the other way around: The Foxconn thief asked his cousin for the name of a cousin in the U.S. who would be willing to sell stolen goods.

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 10:10 AM
He absolutely did harm to Apple's reputation.

No more harm than blind Apple followers like you do...

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 10:10 AM
So to all the Lam-supporters out there.. What you're trying to say is...

If you owned a t-shirt website and a young kid named Lam shows up and befriends one of your employees with the intention to gain access to trademarked or licensed materials, you would let this happen?

You wouldn't stop this?

You would allow your employee to give your intellectual property away so someone else can make a profit on your materials?

I find that pretty hard to believe!

So if that's the case...

I personally would love to see you open a t-shirt website and sell some t-shirts with Apple's logo on it, you can even sell the signature blue Apple employee tees if you want too. Let's see how fast your proven wrong then!

The bottom line is simple - anyone who has responded in favor of Lam clearly does not know what it takes to run a successful business. I highly doubt any of you are actual business owners, if you were, you would understand the severity of the situation and why Apple had to do what they did to protect their brand.

Grow up please.. You're only wasting time and making yourself look ignorant!

I think the big problem is people see Apple as a big corporation that makes lots of money so they think its "ok to steal from the big guys" since thats an easy justification.

Beaverfish
May 26, 2011, 10:11 AM
I think apple have been a little harsh with this 1.

Gasu E.
May 26, 2011, 10:11 AM
If you read the article, he has to forfit ALL profits as well as pay a penalty:cool:

If you read the article CAREFULLY, it says the above was part of the suit, which was suspended; and the terms of the ACTUAL settlement are unknown. :cool::cool::cool:

nwcs
May 26, 2011, 10:11 AM
I wonder how many of the people defending this kid are people who bought those conversion kits or are friends? My guess is a high percentage. (edit: or are kids now out of school who steal software and torrent all the time and view the world with very skewed morals and ethics)

Apple is right, the teen is wrong. The right outcome occurred.

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 10:12 AM
No more harm than blind Apple followers like you do...

Hmm, look at that. I'm still totally disagreeing with you.

benthewraith
May 26, 2011, 10:12 AM
I totally disagree. How many of these phones are out there now? How poorly do the sensors perform? How much word-of-mouth spreads from these users?

Fairly certain the market for converted iPhone 4's on Ebay are quite small.

ESPECIALLY now that there are real white iPhones out there so people who buy these phones may have no idea that they're conversions.

You mean a person buying a white iPhone from Apple may not know whether it's been converted or not? The guy sold an estimated 600 kits. Of the iPhones in the wild, that's not even close to 1%.

How did 'antennagate' start? By people complaining about the antenna. You can NOT deny that Apple's sales weren't affected by that. How many people are currently complainig about their proximity sensors to friends because of this guy?

The proximity sensors and antennas are already bad enough. Last I recall, there were additional sensors on the Apple-manufactured white iPhone 4.

He absolutely did harm to Apple's reputation.

Apple did damage to its own reputation by selling phones with shoddy antennas in the first place.

gmcalpin
May 26, 2011, 10:12 AM
I think who they should really go after is the source within Foxconn, but alas, like the failed "drug war" we had during the 80's, it's just the same crap, different toilet. Go after the weak instead of going after the big fish.
Did you read the whole article? Or even the whole headline? The kid settled. And I would bet revealing his source was prooooobably part of that settlement.

mmcxiiad
May 26, 2011, 10:13 AM
Let me see if I understand this:

1. He sold parts that he illegally obtained.

2. The parts were trademarked and had a company logo.

3. He made $130,000 from those sales parts.

I fail to see where the teenager is justified in his actions.

What if he stole products of that value from a hospital, an orphanage or you?

What if it was your identity and profited on your good name?

the problem here, is stealing is stealing. It would be different if there was true plausible deniability - " gosh, I didn't know I couldn't do this". But let's be real, he acquired parts from someone overseas, the parts came from the same location that made the iPhone. Anyone with half an once of common sense would realize what the risks were.

And what about the parents? Did they not realize he came into a LOT of money? There must have been red flags. Or maybe they supported this, but somewhere, someone had to know that this wasn't all on the up and up. I can't believe that no one at some point said "don't get caught".

Ultimately though, Apple HAD to go after this kid with it's full resources for two reasons:

1. When you have patents and trademarks you have to defend them. They can't pick and choose when they will and when won't. If they didn't defend them, it would be a sign to the courts that they don't take them seriously anymore.

2. Going after the teenager was the first step in going after the bigger fish - the person who sold him the parts.

The truth is this settled out of court, most likely with a non-disclosure clause. Typically when you settle, the fee is lower. So unless someone has that info, which I highly doubt anyone not invalid will see, we don't truly know what the final terms were.

RalfTheDog
May 26, 2011, 10:15 AM
Im so humbled to be surrounded by perfect people.

If any of you have acquired ANYTHING by non-legal means (shared music/movies)...youre a "thief".

If any of you have gone over the speed limit (by ANY amount), talked on the phone while driving (in applicable states)... you're a criminal.



Those are misdemeanors. The acts the kid committed were felonies. It is the difference between dropping a gum wrapper on the street and murder.



Yes, he did a stupid and illegal thing. But, dont wave your banner of perfection while making his actions so black and white. If his family didnt have healthcare, and he used all the profits to treat his mother's cancer, would you still be so hypocritical?

His actions (though "wrong") were not harmful to anyone and only reflect poor judgement on himself.

Give the grace we all require...heaven knows ive far from perfect.

He purchased stolen goods, then resold them. He did so across international lines. He damaged Apple's reputation by selling defective parts labeled with the Apple logo. He did harm to Apple and the people who purchased the parts.

farmermac
May 26, 2011, 10:15 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; fr-fr) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

I don't know how anyone could be dumb enough NOT to assume any corporation would come down hard if you were selling stolen parts so openly. Apple pretty much has to do what they did otherwise next time an unreleased leak happens it will 10x worse.

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 10:15 AM
Fairly certain the market for converted iPhone 4's on Ebay are quite small.

You mean a person buying a white iPhone from Apple may not know whether it's been converted or not? The guy sold an estimated 600 kits. Of the iPhones in the wild, that's not even close to 1%.


Yeah, but when there's a thread on Macrumors and 3 out of 5 posters claim to have trouble with their white iPhones and then that thread comes up high on Google... Well then those 3 users can have one hell of an impact on people's opinion.

I've seen Google searches bring up Macrumors threads VERY high when searching for info on Apple products. Just a few people can be very influential.


The proximity sensors and antennas are already bad enough. Last I recall, there were additional sensors on the Apple-manufactured white iPhone 4.


Yeah, that's exactly my point.


Apple did damage to its own reputation by selling phones with shoddy antennas in the first place.

So if you stub your toe then you can't complain when someone cuts your arm? I'm not seeing the connection here. Yes, Apple had antenna problems. So they should just welcome false complaints about white iPhones not working well? What's the connection there?

PeterQVenkman
May 26, 2011, 10:15 AM
What an idiotic comment!



What an idiotic comment!

Is there an echo in here?

d0minick
May 26, 2011, 10:15 AM
1. Foxconn has no right selling these parts, so even if you buy them from Foxconn, they are still stolen goods.

2. He didn't buy from Foxconn. He bought from a Foxconn employee. Most likely now a Foxconn ex-employee.




You are right. And I do believe Apple has a case.

But they should most likely issue a cease and desist. Sueing is a little over the top.

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 10:16 AM
I think the big problem is people see Apple as a big corporation that makes lots of money so they think its "ok to steal from the big guys" since thats an easy justification.

Exactly!

It's a joke.. Anyone that actually knows what it takes to protect a brand knows the hoops you have to jump through to do so. Half the people commenting have probably never even been involved in a lawsuit, let alone own any intellectual property.

I love how these people think it's gonna be easy working with a kid who doesn't know what is right or wrong. Like sending a cease and desist letter will actually do something, like he didn't know what he was getting into the second he purchased the domain name!

These people need to grow up and get their heads on straight. We live in a corrupt world where people are only trying to figure out a way to get over on the next guy.

Some of you act like he stumbled upon this idea, like he is almost smart for coming up with this.. No, that is not the case. The kid is an idiot to think he can get over on one of the worlds largest brands.

I bet these are the same idiots that go around "Planking" on things because they think it's funny or cool. You all are just followers, try being a leader for a change!

d0minick
May 26, 2011, 10:17 AM
Im so humbled to be surrounded by perfect people.

If any of you have acquired ANYTHING by non-legal means (shared music/movies)...youre a "thief".

If any of you have gone over the speed limit (by ANY amount), talked on the phone while driving (in applicable states)... you're a criminal.

Yes, he did a stupid and illegal thing. But, dont wave your banner of perfection while making his actions so black and white. If his family didnt have healthcare, and he used all the profits to treat his mother's cancer, would you still be so hypocritical?

His actions (though "wrong") were not harmful to anyone and only reflect poor judgement on himself.

Give the grace we all require...heaven knows ive far from perfect.

I've NEVER EVER NOT ONCE gone under the speed limit.

mack pro
May 26, 2011, 10:17 AM
This makes Apple look really really bad. Only the strangest fanboys are ok with this , but Apple could set them on fire and they'd be ok with it.

bigandtasty
May 26, 2011, 10:17 AM
Way to go Apple! Go after the teenager and make him pay but let Gizmodo get away with their shenanigans. Nice:apple:

benthewraith
May 26, 2011, 10:17 AM
He did harm to Apple and the people who purchased the parts.

Fairly certain the people buying the products knew there was a chance of shoddy service.

OptyCT
May 26, 2011, 10:17 AM
Let's also remember that a "settlement" doesn't have to be financial. Apple may not have taken a dime from this kid and his family, since the details of the settlement were not disclosed.

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 10:18 AM
I wonder how many of the people defending this kid are people who bought those conversion kits or are friends? My guess is a high percentage.

Apple is right, the teen is wrong. The right outcome occurred.

Well shucks, ya got me;) Me and "Jimmy the Felon" go way back since our days as Somali Pirates. Sure, they said high-jacking freighters was a "gateway crime"...but who knew he'd up doing something this bad.


And for the record, no MR member would pay 200+ for an unapproved alteration to our beloved iP4's...it would make trips to the Apple Store a bit awkward:o

Jazwire
May 26, 2011, 10:18 AM
I totally disagree. How many of these phones are out there now? How poorly do the sensors perform? How much word-of-mouth spreads from these users?

ESPECIALLY now that there are real white iPhones out there so people who buy these phones may have no idea that they're conversions.

How did 'antennagate' start? By people complaining about the antenna. You can NOT deny that Apple's sales weren't affected by that. How many people are currently complainig about their proximity sensors to friends because of this guy?

He absolutely did harm to Apple's reputation.

Exactly, my phone has proximity senor problems AND antenna problems!!
Oh wait, mines Black.
I'm not completely in this kids corner but this argument is funny.

Also lets keep in perspective this kid sold approx 500 kits, do you even realize what a tiny percentage that is? Apple probably sells 500 Iphone's in 15 minutes.

bretm
May 26, 2011, 10:18 AM
Allright! Another reason to make me hesitant to admit to owning an iPhone, or iPod, or MacBook, or contemplate buying more Apple crap if this is how those profits are used. Time to fix my signature...

I'm ashamed to be affiliated with the likes of YOU, even if it is just as a fellow Apple user.

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 10:19 AM
After seeing some comments I'm wondering if people here actually READ the article?

I missed a big section when I skimmed it so I won't fault anyone but...


APPLE DID NOT SUE THE KID

They simply filed a suit and then withdrew it, not to mention the kid said he isn't going to stop his business practice so I'm sure if a cease and desist was sent its not going to change things.

PeterQVenkman
May 26, 2011, 10:19 AM
forfeit



Douche move? What is YOUR illegal business?

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS.



None WAS spared. Please get an education.



hacker crowd? More criminal behavior that WE have to support with the high prices for our electronics.



TOTAL Bull!



AMEN!

My Cousin Vinny? Is that you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4KR1zVqizo

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 10:20 AM
Exactly, my phone has proximity senor problems AND antenna problems!!
Oh wait, mines Black.
I'm not completely in this kids corner but this argument is funny.

Yeah, and would you want one that's even worse?

No, really, would you? You act like you wouldn't care if you sent $200 to this kid and it made your phone worse, but I suspect you would.

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 10:20 AM
After seeing some comments I'm wondering if people here actually READ the article?

I missed a big section when I skimmed it so I won't fault anyone but...


APPLE DID NOT SUE THE KID

They simply filed a suit and then withdrew it, not to mention the kid said he isn't going to stop his business practice so I'm sure if a cease and desist was sent its not going to change things.

It honestly doesn't matter if they've read the article or not.. They will believe what they want and make up the rest, just like they always do.

mmcxiiad
May 26, 2011, 10:21 AM
One other thing, keep in mind that sometimes when a crime is committed by a teenager the nature of the crime causes them to be tried as an adult.

This teenager committed inter nation theft and resold the items to make $130,000. This is not the act of a mere teenager.

Yet to cover the other side of the arguement, this is why the parents where also on the lawsuit, because they should nave noticed something nefarious was going on when their son is making more money then most adults.

A 10 minute phone call with any lawyer would have told them this long ago. Something that any reputable business would have done.

Blorzoga
May 26, 2011, 10:22 AM
Bravo, Apple! Way to go out of your way to crush the competition!


Sadly, if Microsoft would have done this (think Mike Rowe Soft incident) people would be rioting but Apple crushing a teenage is ok...

It's called trademark infringement. It's not a joke. The kid set up a business to profit from the billions of dollars Apple has invested in creating a brand. The parts were illegally obtained. Apple has every right to protect its trademark. The kid's parents should be ashamed.

MacUser5
May 26, 2011, 10:22 AM
Bravo, Apple! Way to go out of your way to crush the competition!


Sadly, if Microsoft would have done this (think Mike Rowe Soft incident) people would be rioting but Apple crushing a teenage is ok...

It's highly unlikely there was any serious penalty here, especially after Woz came out and defended him a few week back. Apple had to take action publicly to prevent it from happening again. It no doubt cost Apple a pretty penny though.

Gasu E.
May 26, 2011, 10:23 AM
Okay, so where are the police with criminal charges? If theft is theft that is not a civil matter, but a criminal one.

Since the alleged theft would have been in China, Apple would first have to get a theft conviction in China. Then they could bring a case for receiving stolen goods in the USA. Obviously, the US authorities have no jurisdiction to investigate an alleged theft in China.

benthewraith
May 26, 2011, 10:23 AM
Yeah, and would you want one that's even worse?

No, really, would you? You act like you wouldn't care if you sent $200 to this kid and it made your phone worse, but I suspect you would.

And again I'd suspect individuals would know getting aftermarket parts from a questionable third party could potentially impact the performance of their handheld devices. I'm sure also that to perform such a conversion would involve voiding the warranty on their devices.

Essentially, they'd know what they were getting into.

bretm
May 26, 2011, 10:23 AM
Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

Their skills lie in DESIGN. Always have. Interface, hardware, etc. Good design is the key to so many things. It's what Jobs understands. From typography to color to minimalism. Good clean communicative design. They could build cars or lamps or houses. They would likely excel wherever they put their efforts.

logandzwon
May 26, 2011, 10:26 AM
Guys, come on... his was either selling stolen parts or counterfeit parts of a major company's brand new flagship product.

Anyway, Apple requested the Judge dismiss the case, meaning they probably settled. It's not like the kid would have millions of dollars to settle the case with. He cheated the system, stole from hard working people, and got caught.

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 10:27 AM
And again I'd suspect individuals would know getting aftermarket parts from a questionable third party could potentially impact the performance of their handheld devices. I'm sure also that to perform such a conversion would involve voiding the warranty on their devices.

Essentially, they'd know what they were getting into.

I strongly suspect that many enterprising individuals would decide to buy several of these kits, convert phones, then sell them for a profit.

At first the buyer should have known what they were getting (although some wouldn't be that smart) but now all of those conversion phones could easily be re-sold without the buyer knowing what they were getting.

I absolutely believe that there are hundreds of these converted phones in the hands of people who don't know they're conversions. All of my opinions here are based directly on that belief.

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 10:28 AM
Those are misdemeanors. The acts the kid committed were felonies. It is the difference between dropping a gum wrapper on the street and murder.

He purchased stolen goods, then resold them. He did so across international lines. He damaged Apple's reputation by selling defective parts labeled with the Apple logo. He did harm to Apple and the people who purchased the parts.

Im not disagreeing that he did something wrong. But the extent of his crimes do not, in actuality, equate to serious harm. Citing his crimes as felonies means nothing outside of a legal perspective. From a moral standpoint, I would call every misdemeanor assault ever committed, worse than his actions...yet they arent categorized as severely.

If the amount of stolen goods totaled below the felony threshold, would his actions be better? No. He did what he did, but it cannot be equated to other harsh examples of felony crime(even in the realm of theft).

Stay well, appreciate the comments.

res1233
May 26, 2011, 10:29 AM
The only reason Apple settled in my opinion is because of him being a teenager. In my mind, that's all the slack he deserves. If he were older and chose to throw whatever career he had away that would be one thing, but odds are this kid didn't even have much of a career yet to speak of. It's the decent thing to settle, so good on you Apple. Make him give his illegally obtained cash back, and make it hurt a bit. I hope his parents are harsh with him about this too, or he'll never learn.

oheckyeah
May 26, 2011, 10:29 AM
yes, the kid is in the wrong, and apple has the right to sue.

however, i think this is an opportunity for apple to gain a little respect in some of the public's eyes. if apple sues the kid and his family for all the money he made, and a penalty, and presses charges, what happens? a few self-righteous prick fanbois are happy, and tons of people scream that apple are criminals and need to take it easy on the teenager.

but if apple takes it easy on the kid, lets say, just takes all the kids profits and lets the rest go, apple is seen as the good guy, because they protected themselves but also didn't subscribe to the greed that so many accuse them of.

although apple has a reputation and trademark to protect, i think they can turn the other cheek and get a lot more people's business than the business they will "recover" by destroying the kid.

mmcxiiad
May 26, 2011, 10:29 AM
The thing we don't know is how the teenager responded. Let's look at Psystar, when they got caught not only were they total jerks about it, but they tried to defend their position.

We have no idea what point of view this family took. A little bit of humility and regret may have gone a long way. Apple may have privately been merciful and not a heartless tyrannical empire.

While publicly defending their patents and trademarks, which they must always do with decisive vigor.

UnSainted
May 26, 2011, 10:31 AM
If the opinions here are any indication of how our current society is, and I can only assume that is the case, then its no wonder why our values are degraded and kids are raised without learning from the consequences of their actions.

Apple was right in what they did, the fact that it was a teenager is of little consequence.

marksman
May 26, 2011, 10:31 AM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

You mean "He is just a criminal."

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 10:31 AM
Guys, come on... his was either selling stolen parts or counterfeit parts of a major company's brand new flagship product.

Anyway, Apple requested the Judge dismiss the case, meaning they probably settled. It's not like the kid would have millions of dollars to settle the case with. He cheated the system, stole from hard working people, and got caught.

I love the smell of justice in the morning!

If this were in another country, this kid would be looking at a much greater penalty. The guy who was responsible for the lead leaking into the plastic toys in the Mattel Toys factory was killed in China because he made their country look bad. The government had him jailed and later executed because they felt it was necessary to prove a point.

So say what you will, the kid is getting off lightly and he is lucky!

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 10:31 AM
Apple may have privately been merciful and not a heartless tyrannical empire.

Very good point, this may have been true.

quagmire
May 26, 2011, 10:35 AM
I'm not saying that the boy shouldn't be punished, but suing is the not the way to go, what should've happened is for his crime he should've been sent to juvenile camp for kids, thats generally what happens when Teenagers commit crimes..

So you would rather go to jail/juvenile jail than simply pay back your $130,000 profit and stop selling these conversions?

Frankly, if Apple went the criminal route they would be getting reactions far worse than they are getting now....... Apple went the best route possible. The kids life isn't destroyed and Apple stopped someone from selling illegally obtained parts.

puckhead193
May 26, 2011, 10:37 AM
a bit over the top. Didn't Woz buy one of these conversion kits?

Westyfield2
May 26, 2011, 10:37 AM
The recession must have hit Apple too now if they're having to sue kids!

Uragon
May 26, 2011, 10:38 AM
Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

For a doc, you forgot your meds.

tCruzin4lyfe
May 26, 2011, 10:39 AM
yes, the kid is in the wrong, and apple has the right to sue.

however, i think this is an opportunity for apple to gain a little respect in some of the public's eyes. if apple sues the kid and his family for all the money he made, and a penalty, and presses charges, what happens? a few self-righteous prick fanbois are happy, and tons of people scream that apple are criminals and need to take it easy on the teenager.

but if apple takes it easy on the kid, lets say, just takes all the kids profits and lets the rest go, apple is seen as the good guy, because they protected themselves but also didn't subscribe to the greed that so many accuse them of.

although apple has a reputation and trademark to protect, i think they can turn the other cheek and get a lot more people's business than the business they will "recover" by destroying the kid.

Another one who obviously didn't read the whole article or did not understand it. I'm pretty sure Apple is taking it easy on the teenager.

carlgo
May 26, 2011, 10:41 AM
A private visit to the kid from men in black and a crackdown at Beloved Foxcon would have been the better choice.

Ubuntu
May 26, 2011, 10:43 AM
Women. Children. None were spared the master's wrath.

I guess we don't have too many WoW players here. I laughed out loud at this, well done!:D

Lennholm
May 26, 2011, 10:45 AM
Their skills lie in DESIGN. Always have. Interface, hardware, etc. Good design is the key to so many things. It's what Jobs understands. From typography to color to minimalism. Good clean communicative design. They could build cars or lamps or houses. They would likely excel wherever they put their efforts.

UI design yes, industrial design they just "borrow" from Dieter Rams and make it out of their material of this years choice

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 10:45 AM
A private visit to the kid from men in black and a crackdown at Beloved Foxcon would have been the better choice.

A better choice then not suing? Apple didn't sue you know, and the settlement is speculation only.

robogobo
May 26, 2011, 10:45 AM
come on Apple, let the kid have some fun. Hell they should have hired him. 130large is pocket change. It's less than pocket change. It's money under the couch cushion.

oheckyeah
May 26, 2011, 10:46 AM
Another one who obviously didn't read the whole article or did not understand it. I'm pretty sure Apple is taking it easy on the teenager.

did you not read it? it says it is unknown what the settlement is... that doesn't necessarily mean they took it easy...

j-traxx
May 26, 2011, 10:46 AM
we all do wrong stuff and we all have knowledge of consequences if we get caught. we all dont get caught so we forget that penalties must be paid for wrongdoing no matter how trivial. The kid got caught and he has to face the music. We in america have become so anti establishment and anti consequence i fear for the absence of character building for the generation coming after ours. The fact that we are justifying for his actions based on how much money he made in relation to a big company's profits says alot. if im a billionaire and the paperboy decides to take out the coupon section of my paper i paid for to sell it to the less fortunate across town, he has committed a crime. i paid for my coupons and that makes them mine. it doesn't matter how rich i am. he could've just asked me for what he wanted instead of stealing. If no is the answer then he has to find another way.

in this case if you wanted a white iphone before it went on sale there was always colorwarepc.com as a legal option.

chaosbunny
May 26, 2011, 10:47 AM
Sorry but anyone saying leave the kid alone, or Apple is too Big Brother/Big Business either needs to get their head on straight or grow up or both. Anything of the sort just makes you sound like you don't know what you are talking about.

Well, I'm pretty sure Tyler Durden would appreciate the actions of this teenager. :)

j-traxx
May 26, 2011, 10:48 AM
A private visit to the kid from men in black and a crackdown at Beloved Foxcon would have been the better choice.

nope. he would've tweeted it and it would get ugly.

Lunarstone
May 26, 2011, 10:51 AM
I love the smell of justice in the morning!

If this were in another country, this kid would be looking at a much greater penalty. The guy who was responsible for the lead leaking into the plastic toys in the Mattel Toys factory was killed in China because he made their country look bad. The government had him jailed and later executed because they felt it was necessary to prove a point.

So say what you will, the kid is getting off lightly and he is lucky!

You can say that again man! If this was in Singapore, he could probably get all that and say 40 strokes of the cane and some jail sentence!

tCruzin4lyfe
May 26, 2011, 10:52 AM
did you not read it? it says it is unknown what the settlement is... that doesn't necessarily mean they took it easy...

I sure did :) and I'm quite sure Apple isn't DESTROYING this teenager's life as you said in your earlier post. Nobody knows the settlement but I bet the penalty won't be what it could have been.

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 10:53 AM
nope. he would've tweeted it and it would get ugly.

He wouldn't have been able to tweet it after they hit him with the Neuralyzer!

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 10:55 AM
You can say that again man! If this was in Singapore, he could probably get all that and say 40 strokes of the cane and some jail sentence!

Exactly!

They caned that American college student that spray painted on all the cars back like 10-15 years ago.

I think we need to learn from other countries honestly. Instead of police, we need ninjas. People would start thinking twice about a crime if they knew a ninja could pop up at any moment.

wrkoch
May 26, 2011, 10:56 AM
What *******s!! I feel bad for the kid, he was smart enough to bring it to market before apple could. Hope it works out okay for him.

Born Again
May 26, 2011, 10:57 AM
Bravo, Apple! Way to go out of your way to crush the competition!


Sadly, if Microsoft would have done this (think Mike Rowe Soft incident) people would be rioting but Apple crushing a teenage is ok...

Nobody likes apple crushing a teenager

Apple is definitely a business people

A heartless one at that

JilzVT
May 26, 2011, 10:57 AM
$135 for just the back panel - a piece of plastic? Yikes.

Adey
May 26, 2011, 10:59 AM
I think he meant to say "Apple fanboyism is worse than Nazism."

I'm a bit of a fanboy but as yet I have never knowingly killed anyone Jewish in a truly horrific manner.

[Though I may have to check the genealogy of one or two people before I fully commit to the above statement.]

Anyway.... I'm leading us a bit off-topic here.

diadem
May 26, 2011, 11:01 AM
Without more info we cant be sure on how the goods got to the kid. But he most likely was buying the parts of his supplier in china, so he is not a thief like every one keeps saying. The thief is the employee at Foxconn. The only thing the kid is guilty of is using apple's trade mark illegally.

The kid will do very well in business if he keeps it up. He seen a market and filled it, it was a pro move. Tho the parts needed a little work to keep the lawsuit from coming his way.

That said I do hope the kid managed to squirrel away some of that cash so he can setup a new business.

frogger2020
May 26, 2011, 11:02 AM
grow up, Apple just is protecting its rights, HE's A THIEF! Get it?

Exactly!!!!

Get off my lawn, you durn kids!!

gri
May 26, 2011, 11:05 AM
Apple's sueing teenagers now.

Apple is suing people who do perform trade mark infringement (or whatever the legal term is) as well as resale of stolen goods. Doesn't matter how young the person is. He was old enough to set everything for his "business" in motion so he should be old enough basics of business and IP.

Muscle Master
May 26, 2011, 11:06 AM
Whether it was rite or wrong.. you gotta do what you gotta do in this economy, we don't know the extent of the teen and his family background.. they could have been poor as dirt.. last I check and correct me if I'm wrong Apple has over $9,000,000,000 in the bank.. I can see to file a suit to shut him down, but to go after if money too.. a petty $130k

makes me sick to own a Macbook Pro now

And whats with this "tarnishing apples reputation" If people wanted to buy conversion kits.. that's their business, . How could they blame apple about any faults of the part.. before this was release to the public I pretty sure that the people who bought it had to knew it was fake at the time of purchase... Shut up!!

I'll tell you one thing.. it's better than selling crack on the corner throwing his life away

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 11:09 AM
Whether it was rite or wrong.. you gotta do what you gotta do in this economy, we don't know the extent of the teen and his family background.. they could have been poor as dirt.. last I check and correct me if I'm wrong Apple has over $9,000,000,000 in the bank.. I can see to file a suit to shut him down, but to go after if money too.. a petty $130k

makes me sick to own a Macbook Pro now

And whats with this "tarnishing apples reputation" If people wanted to buy conversion kits.. that's their business, . How could they blame apple about any faults of the part.. before this was release to the public I pretty sure that the people who bought it had to knew it was fake at the time of purchase... Shut up!!

I'll tell you one thing.. it's better than selling crack on the corner throwing his life away

Actually, Apple has about 77b in the bank.

It doesn't matter what the case is with this kid and his family.. If you live in a cardboard box, it still doesn't mean you can rob a bank.

Also, the kid clearly had the means to purchase a domain, a server and everything else needed to launch a website.. I highly doubt he was sitting in a public library building his little business.

gmcalpin
May 26, 2011, 11:10 AM
did you not read it? it says it is unknown what the settlement is... that doesn't necessarily mean they took it easy...
While you're right, no lawyer would advise the kid to settle for WORSE than the lawsuit was asking for. All profits plus Apple's legal fees is the worst this kid was going to shell out. And that's not really so bad.

Apple COULD have pressed criminal charges against him. They didn't.

mdatwood
May 26, 2011, 11:12 AM
If someone were to break into your house and steal your electronics, then sell them and the local DA were not to file charges, that would not remove your moral responsibility to take them to civil court.

Is that what happened though? People are saying these were defective parts that were thrown away that the kid bought and then sold. If he was really trafficking in stolen goods then the criminal courts shouldn't have any problem going after him. I'm thinking it wasn't quite that simple, thus the scorched earth civil complaint that Apple knew the kid would not or could not fight.

thogs_cave
May 26, 2011, 11:14 AM
Bravo, Apple! Way to go out of your way to crush the competition!


Sadly, if Microsoft would have done this (think Mike Rowe Soft incident) people would be rioting but Apple crushing a teenage is ok...

Drat, I got caught up at work, and this thread got long before I could respond.

As others have pointed out, he committed a blatantly criminal act, and he's old enough (as are his parents) to understand that and accept the punishment. The goods were, if not stolen, a blatant trademark violation, and he knew it.

I'm not a fan of lawsuits in general, or lawyers who are justin it for money, but I have no sympathy for this kid or his parents. For once, I'm on the side of a company. (Gotta happen once in a blue moon, I guess.) :D

chris200x9
May 26, 2011, 11:14 AM
Women. Children. None were spared the master's wrath.

None WAS spared. Please get an education.




Oh man 7/10, I raged.

ThunderSkunk
May 26, 2011, 11:14 AM
Oh for f's...

Just got on here and rcvd SIX private messages all troubled about the post I made, and a bunch of other hotheads with nothing else to worry about foaming at the mouth over their crazy interpretations of the first part of my post.

Since some of you idiots want to make this personal, I'll clarify. I think white iPhones look cheap, and tacky, so no, I don't want one, didn't trespass upon your "morals" to get one...

No, there are points to be made about how this usually comes about, with the nature of industrial scrap and backdoor supply lines that make their way onto ebay and elsewhere and into your homes, and international law and blah blah blah...

But honestly, that's already like a hundred more words than I give a rats ass about any of this.

tCruzin4lyfe
May 26, 2011, 11:18 AM
Whether it was rite or wrong.. you gotta do what you gotta do in this economy, we don't know the extent of the teen and his family background.. they could have been poor as dirt.. last I check and correct me if I'm wrong Apple has over $9,000,000,000 in the bank.. I can see to file a suit to shut him down, but to go after if money too.. a petty $130k

makes me sick to own a Macbook Pro now

And whats with this "tarnishing apples reputation" If people wanted to buy conversion kits.. that's their business, . How could they blame apple about any faults of the part.. before this was release to the public I pretty sure that the people who bought it had to knew it was fake at the time of purchase... Shut up!!

I'll tell you one thing.. it's better than selling crack on the corner throwing his life away

Go sell your MacBook Pro then, I'm sure plenty others would buy it. And no it's not better than selling crack because if he would of kept on doing something illegal like this, it would lead to the same outcome, getting caught eventually and facing heavier charges. Then his life would still be thrown away.

looking4anotebo
May 26, 2011, 11:19 AM
The bigger story is what kind of person would spend $279 to change the color of their phone.

infiniphonic
May 26, 2011, 11:19 AM
He was selling Apple branded merchandise that was unauthorized and possibly stolen from one of Apples parts suppliers. Apple is defending their trade dress. I'm quite sure that if it was a company and, not just some kid, they would have brought the hammer down much harder than they did in this case.

Mattie Num Nums
May 26, 2011, 11:20 AM
How many of you supported Metallica when they were fighting Napster. I bet a good number of you didn't.

LazyMacGuy
May 26, 2011, 11:20 AM
I'll tell you one thing.. it's better than selling crack on the corner throwing his life away

Yes in terms of the dangers but no in terms of consequences. Both things are on the wrong side of the law.

I personally have no problem with people doing either but what pisses me of is when people do something they know is wrong and then expect rights and courtesies when they are caught.

The simple fact is despite the moral criminality of the offence it is still an offence and so Apple acted on it.

Muscle Master
May 26, 2011, 11:20 AM
Also, the kid clearly had the means to purchase a domain, a server and everything else needed to launch a website.. I highly doubt he was sitting in a public library building his little business.

Not that hard to do now and days

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 11:21 AM
Whether it was rite or wrong.. you gotta do what you gotta do in this economy, we don't know the extent of the teen and his family background.. they could have been poor as dirt.. last I check and correct me if I'm wrong Apple has over $9,000,000,000 in the bank.. I can see to file a suit to shut him down, but to go after if money too.. a petty $130k

makes me sick to own a Macbook Pro now

And whats with this "tarnishing apples reputation" If people wanted to buy conversion kits.. that's their business, . How could they blame apple about any faults of the part.. before this was release to the public I pretty sure that the people who bought it had to knew it was fake at the time of purchase... Shut up!!

I'll tell you one thing.. it's better than selling crack on the corner throwing his life away

Did you read the article?

APPLE DID NOT SUE THE KID

Nor did the "settle" on anything officially. The settlement is pure speculation. Not to mention the kid already said that he isn't changing his business practice, suggesting that he never even got a cease and desist letter yet.

DDMaKeeg
May 26, 2011, 11:22 AM
WHILE I believe apple has a right here, who would want someone selling something with your trademark, I do think they should leave the kid alone.

He sold conversion kits to something Apple would not release.
And there were quality control reasons that Apple was not releasing it.

And you had to have an iPhone to do it, so Apple sold a iPhone, and the kid made a bit of cash for his smarts on knowing the demand of a market.

Yes, the customer did buy an iPhone to do this. A BLACK iPhone.

No harm no foul.

Now what happens when this customer has a problem with their iPhone and need a replacement at the Apple Store? You think that transaction is going to go smoothly? You think Apple is even going to honor the warranty? You think they system would even allow them to? If you're phone is firmware modified (jailbroken or unlocked) they won't touch it. What makes you think that a hardware mod would be easier to warranty? White iPhones and black iPhones have specifically different model numbers. You think the customer is even aware of this?

So even if Apple swaps it out with a replacement, that replacement will NOT be WHITE. They cant swap out one model number for a different model, unless of course the original one is discontinued. You think this customer that bought this conversion kit even realizes that? No, they will be upset at who? Apple for not honoring the warranty of this iPhone. So, yes this will put Apple in a negative light for this customer.

And although Apple does make quality products and I haven't had to get mine replaced before, remember, these were factory sealed phones when the customer purchased them. Sure, the kid may be smart enough to take them apart and swap out the casing to change the color, you think these will be as perfect looking as factory sealed? These a potentially more prone to having issues than ones unmodified or opened.

Besides, if these parts were not acceptable for Apple to use, since we all saw the threads of "light leaks" as being the reason they weren't up to standards for Apple, whats to say this customer won't be in the Apple Store trying to get a replacement because it has light leaks, or some other defect prone to these parts?

Now that Apple sells the white version again, i am sure his demand will go down.
Let the kid win.
Its a lose-lose for the customer potentially. They will be mad at Apple for not being able to honor the warranty, not at the kid that modified it.

Muscle Master
May 26, 2011, 11:22 AM
Yes in terms of the dangers but no in terms of consequences. Both things are on the wrong side of the law.

I personally have no problem with people doing either but what pisses me of is when people do something they know is wrong and then expect rights and courtesies when they are caught.

The simple fact is despite the moral criminality of the offence it is still an offence and so Apple acted on it.

Your rite

But personally.. I wouldn't give a Fu*%, as long as my kids got food on their plates.. Fu$& morals

JAT
May 26, 2011, 11:23 AM
Why does he deserve it? Teenagers make mistakes, he's not an adult, not to mention he only made a profit of $130,000? How much does Apple make? I mean this had little or no effect on Apple, as a punishment what should have been done is he should have been taken to a juvenile camp for teenagers as punishment..
You must be a teenager.

bpeeps
May 26, 2011, 11:23 AM
Allright! Another reason to make me hesitant to admit to owning an iPhone, or iPod, or MacBook, or contemplate buying more Apple crap if this is how those profits are used. Time to fix my signature...

Thank you for the signature lol. Instead of being hesitant, I think you should mail me your iPhone, iPod, and MacBook. Then you can be a proper hater.

LazyMacGuy
May 26, 2011, 11:25 AM
Your rite

But personally.. I wouldn't give a Fu*%, as long as my kids got food on their plates.. Fu$& morals

I completely agree, but I imagine you would be willing to accept the consequences.

If people kept getting let off then there would be no point in making things illegal.

blahblah100
May 26, 2011, 11:27 AM
Apple COULD have pressed criminal charges against him. They didn't.

Wrong. Apple could have REQUESTED that charges be filed against him.

DrDomVonDoom
May 26, 2011, 11:28 AM
How many of you supported Metallica when they were fighting Napster. I bet a good number of you didn't.

Yeah, I don't support Metallica in any sense of the word, but the difference there was no one was profiting in lue of Metallica, thats like me taking a unreleased album, putting up a website saying I'm Metallica and selling that album to people. Its a little different.

LandOfTech
May 26, 2011, 11:31 AM
F You apple! The kids just trying to make a buck because you couldn't get ur ***** straight when making a white iphone now you sue him and take all his money.

DrDomVonDoom
May 26, 2011, 11:32 AM
Your rite

But personally.. I wouldn't give a Fu*%, as long as my kids got food on their plates.. Fu$& morals

Thats exactly the reason that in the poorest parts of America, theres not a dad to be seen. **** Morals? You might as well not feed your kid if your don't give a **** about morals, then your kids gonna learn that morals don't matter either and do the same ****. This mindset that somehow you can cheat the system and get ahead is inheritly flawed. Sure you might do a illegal venture to keep food on your table, you make make some cash, but you might also get caught, thrown in jail, not see your son for years and leave him defenseless and all alone.

Docrjm
May 26, 2011, 11:33 AM
The person named in the suit, did NOT produce the conversion kit. He sold parts that were diverted from a supply chain illegally. The parts were sold illegally and bore Apple trademarks. Had he contacted foxconn and arranged to purchase white gorilla glass with his own logo etc this would be moot. He did not.
This is Apple protecting it's brand and trademark. A company that fails to do so will find same then genericized. Anyone could then slap the logo on any crap and call it Apple.

Jaredly
May 26, 2011, 11:33 AM
If you'd apply some logic, you would figure out and it is known that there must have been a production problem.
Apple was not going to ship something subpar, just to appease the public or critics. It was discussed in other threads at length.

Lawsuits are necessary, when somebody impacts ones business.

1) Stolen goods
2) Knowingly using stolen goods

etc.etc..

The "only a teenager" excuse is getting old. Today's teenagers who have not been taught what is right or wrong, need to be taught.

The guy was sophisticated enough to run a website, collect money and had no morals and ethics.

If his parents didn't teach him, somebody else had to.

If you had a company selling a product that is a success and somebody would steal parts from you and make money from it and potentially harm the products reputation, you would do nothing?

To all the bash Apple on this posters, are you for real?

Apple did nothing wrong here. They shut down an illegal business, using their parts and potentially damaging their reputation!

Very typical comments for USA where the victim is always the guilty party.

You said that he knowingly resold stolen property. Where are you getting this from? What if the kid though he was running a legit buisness. He might have just google the number to foxcom, got in touch with an employee who told the kid he could sell him parts for the iphone. As far as the kid is concerned when he first started this he was doing everything in a legitamite way (except probably paying taxes). Once he was told what he was doing was illegal he inidiatly shut down his site.

BC2009
May 26, 2011, 11:33 AM
Bravo, Apple! Way to go out of your way to crush the competition!


Sadly, if Microsoft would have done this (think Mike Rowe Soft incident) people would be rioting but Apple crushing a teenage is ok...

I'm sorry, but this is really dumb. And I mean really, really dumb.

He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

Douche Move of the Century.

Women. Children. None were spared the master's wrath.

Apple is getting to big for it's britches. The fad will be passing within another 2 yrs, the bubble will burst. And apple will be remembered for what it is ... a really good marketing company.

hopefully the whole hacker crowd goes after apple for this petty crap and shuts them down like they did to sony

You guys are missing the point here ENTIRELY. According to trademark law you MUST defend your trademarks or else you open the door for others to infringe on them. So Apple has to file a suit or else its competitors can cite this case as a justification for their own infringement.

However, notice that Apple voluntarily withdrew.


Apple did, however, also file a voluntary dismissal of the lawsuit at the same time, suggesting that a settlement has may have been reached,


I'm sure their lawyers had a stern talk with the kid and his parents about what he did. I'm sure there was some sort of confidential settlement that involved the kid not ever doing this again. But even though the lawsuit says "must forfeit all profits" etc... etc.... It did not really happen that way. Apple went easy on this kid, but had to file the lawsuit to avoid setting a precedent that could allow the big competitors to hurt them.

Heck, Woz was even quoted on the Engadget show as having purchased parts from this kid and asked publicly for Apple's legal department to go easy on him.

dgree03
May 26, 2011, 11:34 AM
The kid was able to put out a white iphone before apple did. Using Apple parts, that apple claims didnt work correctly last june.

I wonder if the people who bought these "defective units" actually think they are defective? Was apples excuse really true?

Also, what difference does it make releasing a defective white iphone... the iphone 4 in general is considered "defective" due to the faulty antenna and proximity senor.

Who has filed a lawsuit against apple?

LandOfTech
May 26, 2011, 11:35 AM
Whether it was rite or wrong.. you gotta do what you gotta do in this economy, we don't know the extent of the teen and his family background.. they could have been poor as dirt.. last I check and correct me if I'm wrong Apple has over $9,000,000,000 in the bank.. I can see to file a suit to shut him down, but to go after if money too.. a petty $130k

makes me sick to own a Macbook Pro now

And whats with this "tarnishing apples reputation" If people wanted to buy conversion kits.. that's their business, . How could they blame apple about any faults of the part.. before this was release to the public I pretty sure that the people who bought it had to knew it was fake at the time of purchase... Shut up!!

I'll tell you one thing.. it's better than selling crack on the corner throwing his life away

I completely agree with you!

ten-oak-druid
May 26, 2011, 11:35 AM
Apple should hire him. He could be a one man assembly plant.

bergert
May 26, 2011, 11:36 AM
Without more info we cant be sure on how the goods got to the kid. But he most likely was buying the parts of his supplier in china, so he is not a thief like every one keeps saying. The thief is the employee at Foxconn. The only thing the kid is guilty of is using apple's trade mark illegally.


Knowingly buying stolen goods is still stealing.
http://www.shouselaw.com/stolen-property.html

And there was a high probability the parts were stolen, because they carried the logo but were not sold officially by Apple; nor available on the free market (i.e. sold to everybody). In fact Apple did not sell white handsets at the time, but they were obviously manufactured under order = exclusively for Apple.

Lennholm
May 26, 2011, 11:39 AM
Yeah, I don't support Metallica in any sense of the word, but the difference there was no one was profiting in lue of Metallica, thats like me taking a unreleased album, putting up a website saying I'm Metallica and selling that album to people. Its a little different.

Shawn Fanning didn't profit from Napster!?

Metallica lost sales from people who would've bought the music if no one illegally made it available for free. The copyright owners have the right to set the terms of how others get access to their IP, whether they want money for it or give it away is totally up to them, if it doesn't suit you, pass on the offer.

It's a slight difference but it's just as bad, if not worse.

Clarification: the Metallica case IS worse, because they actually lost sales, Apple hasn't lost any sales since they sold the black iPhone in the first place, and these parts were giong to be scrapped anyway. I think losing sales is far worse than only having some one else also profiting.

abronbibly
May 26, 2011, 11:39 AM
Not that hard to do now and days

I know.. I'm a developer lol.

The point is you don't see any kids sitting in the public library building internet businesses. He clearly came from enough of a lifestyle where he owned a computer, had a credit card or bank account to purchase a domain and a server to host a website, and had the knowledge to create a business.

I live in Manhattan, I don't see any homeless people doing this.

So again, I highly doubt this kid went to a public library to do this.

WestonHarvey1
May 26, 2011, 11:40 AM
Fire Woz!

Docrjm
May 26, 2011, 11:43 AM
He was selling parts with the Apple logo on them. Apple was protecting it's trademark. If you do not legally protect your trademark you can lose your trademark.
Additionally some of the logic in your post is very flawed. Being poor is not a legal defense, nor is the size of the companies net worth of any relevance in this instance.

To ease your nausea, sell your MacBook Pro.

Whether it was rite or wrong.. you gotta do what you gotta do in this economy, we don't know the extent of the teen and his family background.. they could have been poor as dirt.. last I check and correct me if I'm wrong Apple has over $9,000,000,000 in the bank.. I can see to file a suit to shut him down, but to go after if money too.. a petty $130k

makes me sick to own a Macbook Pro now

And whats with this "tarnishing apples reputation" If people wanted to buy conversion kits.. that's their business, . How could they blame apple about any faults of the part.. before this was release to the public I pretty sure that the people who bought it had to knew it was fake at the time of purchase... Shut up!!

I'll tell you one thing.. it's better than selling crack on the corner throwing his life away

Jaredly
May 26, 2011, 11:46 AM
[QUOTE=RalfTheDog;12634335] These were parts that Apple owned. This is no different than if someone stole your car from your garage, then sold it to someone else. [QUOTE]

It is extremely different. He did not go to the factory and steel the parts and then sell them. He simply bought parts and was reselling them. I think this is a better analigy. You by a car from somebody, then you go to resell the car, a couple months later you find out the car you bought and then sold was stolen.

fribhey
May 26, 2011, 11:49 AM
i can't believe how much stupid there is here.

Jaredly
May 26, 2011, 11:49 AM
How was he infringing on apples trademark? On his website he said he was selling apple parts, he never said he made them. Im guessing that by everybody believes that it is also trademark infringment to resell my macbook because it has an apple logo on it?

cmfilms
May 26, 2011, 11:54 AM
Has anyone actually read the article?!?

He was selling stolen iPhone parts from Foxconn! This wasn't just a white skin that he designed.

Muscle Master
May 26, 2011, 11:57 AM
How was he infringing on apples trademark? On his website he said he was selling apple parts, he never said he made them. Im guessing that by everybody believes that it is also trademark infringment to resell my macbook because it has an apple logo on it?

Very good point indeed

unlinked
May 26, 2011, 11:57 AM
You mean "He is just a criminal."

Is that what happened though? People are saying these were defective parts that were thrown away that the kid bought and then sold. If he was really trafficking in stolen goods then the criminal courts shouldn't have any problem going after him. I'm thinking it wasn't quite that simple, thus the scorched earth civil complaint that Apple knew the kid would not or could not fight.

Criminal charges have a much higher standard of proof. This way people get to call him a criminal without all that nasty effort.

srazz
May 26, 2011, 11:58 AM
For all those complaining like this remember:

1) He reportedly illegally got stolen parts from Foxconn
2) His parts had the Apple logo and this is a trademark violation

He wants to engineer legitimate replacement parts without trademark logos, he might have a respectable business.

Perfectly said!!! This kid is a thief.

Docrjm
May 26, 2011, 11:59 AM
He was selling Apple branded parts that he did not have the legal right to sell. He has no distribution agreement with Apple.
This is not the same as you selling your MacBook
He chose to sell parts that were diverted from Apples supply chain.

How was he infringing on apples trademark? On his website he said he was selling apple parts, he never said he made them. Im guessing that by everybody believes that it is also trademark infringment to resell my macbook because it has an apple logo on it?

Tiger8
May 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
He lives in New York City, so yes, US law applies to him.

If the guy was doing a business spraying iPhones in white (or gold), then no crime here. But he is obviously replacing the black parts with stolen white parts, so obviously the law was broken here.

Eminemdrdre00
May 26, 2011, 12:02 PM
This has probably been mentioned, but Steve Wozniak bought a white iPhone from this kid and was a big supporter. He talked a lot about it on the Engadget Show back in January:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/30/the-engadget-show-live-with-steve-wozniak/

Dr Kevorkian94
May 26, 2011, 12:03 PM
As illegal as it is I feel bad for the guy

marksman
May 26, 2011, 12:05 PM
You said that he knowingly resold stolen property. Where are you getting this from? What if the kid though he was running a legit buisness. He might have just google the number to foxcom, got in touch with an employee who told the kid he could sell him parts for the iphone. As far as the kid is concerned when he first started this he was doing everything in a legitamite way (except probably paying taxes). Once he was told what he was doing was illegal he inidiatly shut down his site.

Ignorance is never a defense for breaking the law. He clearly knew he was doing something illegal in the first place.

This thread is full of weird opinions.

It concerns me for society in general.

Iconoclysm
May 26, 2011, 12:08 PM
Oh man 7/10, I raged.

http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/singular-vs-plural/none-were-vs-none-was/

Iconoclysm
May 26, 2011, 12:12 PM
Yeah, I don't support Metallica in any sense of the word, but the difference there was no one was profiting in lue of Metallica, thats like me taking a unreleased album, putting up a website saying I'm Metallica and selling that album to people. Its a little different.

Napster was a company going public and making money off of advertising...they were certainly profiting. The funny thing is, Metallica is not the sort of band that would try to milk money from their fans...and had sued their own record company many times for trying to use their music without their explicit permission - most bands don't have the kind of balls to stand up to their own record company, and most bands don't even own their own music. After fighting for 18 years to maintain control, it all makes sense. Also, for the very same reason as Apple, if you do not file suit you set a precedent that it is ok to use your trademark. If Metallica knowingly let Napster host/trade/etc their music, they would never be able to prevent it in the future. Same goes here.

MacAerfen
May 26, 2011, 12:14 PM
He's only a teenager, Apple are just throwing their weight around. :(:apple::(

I hate these kind of comments. Seriously being a teenager doesn't make the laws any less serious. If you are a teen and you break the law you should face the same penalties as anyone else, and your parents should be on the hook as well if they haven't taught you well enough.

*LTD*
May 26, 2011, 12:15 PM
The kid was able to put out a white iphone before apple did.

I'm sure the quality of those iPhones is perfectly up to Apple standards as well. :rolleyes:

Iconoclysm
May 26, 2011, 12:15 PM
How was he infringing on apples trademark? On his website he said he was selling apple parts, he never said he made them. Im guessing that by everybody believes that it is also trademark infringment to resell my macbook because it has an apple logo on it?

If you sold it as an Apple reseller, yes. Essentially, that is what this kid was doing.

erzhik
May 26, 2011, 12:16 PM
who cares. that kid had the balls do what nobody else managed to do. He saw an opportunity and went for it. This is how innovative minds are born.

*LTD*
May 26, 2011, 12:17 PM
Whether it was rite or wrong.. you gotta do what you gotta do in this economy, we don't know the extent of the teen and his family background.. they could have been poor as dirt.. last I check and correct me if I'm wrong Apple has over $9,000,000,000 in the bank.. I can see to file a suit to shut him down, but to go after if money too.. a petty $130k

makes me sick to own a Macbook Pro now

OMG. Is this what you actually believe?

who cares. that kid had the balls do what nobody else managed to do. He saw an opportunity and went for it. This is how innovative minds are born.

Isn't theft and counterfeiting so awesome! Kewl!

Tiger8
May 26, 2011, 12:19 PM
who cares. that kid had the balls do what nobody else managed to do. He saw an opportunity and went for it. This is how innovative minds are born.

Yes, innovative minds and criminals too. So if you figure out a way to enter a home without breaking the door or a key, and you actually do it, you are innovative as hell, but you are a criminal, too.

Iconoclysm
May 26, 2011, 12:20 PM
who cares. that kid had the balls do what nobody else managed to do. He saw an opportunity and went for it. This is how innovative minds are born.

What is innovative about buying spare parts and selling them? The only thing "innovative" is that the parts were stolen. It's great to appreciate an entrepreneurial spirit like this kid has...but it's downright dumb to call breaking the law having "balls".

dgree03
May 26, 2011, 12:20 PM
I'm sure the quality of those iPhones is perfectly up to Apple standards as well. :rolleyes:

Yes apples standards of releasing a defective iphone 4? :rolleyes:

Iconoclysm
May 26, 2011, 12:21 PM
Yes apples standards of releasing a defective iphone 4? :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's funny how it's the best selling smartphone ever...yet doesn't work!!! :rolleyes:

MacAerfen
May 26, 2011, 12:22 PM
[QUOTE=RalfTheDog;12634335] These were parts that Apple owned. This is no different than if someone stole your car from your garage, then sold it to someone else. [QUOTE]

It is extremely different. He did not go to the factory and steel the parts and then sell them. He simply bought parts and was reselling them. I think this is a better analigy. You by a car from somebody, then you go to resell the car, a couple months later you find out the car you bought and then sold was stolen.

So basically your trying to claim the kid didn't know the parts were illegal?? If the kids that stupid at that age then he should be put in a home for mentally challenged. People keep making excuses because he is young which is ridiculous. People wonder why we have kids killing other kids, its not violent video games or tv, its all these kind of people who think its ok to make excuses for kids, so the kids have no sense of respect for authority at all anymore because some bleeding heart out there will go "oh go easy on them, they are just a kid" over every thing. Its time laws started to come down hard on kids and their parents who obviously didn't take the responsibility to teach them right from wrong.

Chupa Chupa
May 26, 2011, 12:23 PM
who cares. that kid had the balls do what nobody else managed to do. He saw an opportunity and went for it. This is how innovative minds are born.

If by "innovative" you mean criminal. Apple did him a favor. Just imagine the bigger heists he might have run if he got away with it.

*LTD*
May 26, 2011, 12:24 PM
Yes apples standards of releasing a defective iphone 4? :rolleyes:

What part of your iPhone 4 is defective? Have you called Apple about it? Even better if you have AppleCare, but they'll often just replace it for free.

dgree03
May 26, 2011, 12:25 PM
I'm sure the quality of those iPhones is perfectly up to Apple standards as well. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's funny how it's the best selling smartphone ever...yet doesn't work!!! :rolleyes:

Defective doesnt not equal does NOT WORK. It mean it does NOT WORK CORRECTLY.

*LTD*
May 26, 2011, 12:26 PM
Defective doesnt not equal does NOT WORK. It mean it does NOT WORK CORRECTLY.

What exactly is wrong with it? :confused:

roadbloc
May 26, 2011, 12:27 PM
What exactly is wrong with it? :confused:
If you hold it in your hands, for some reason, you loose signal. :p

dgree03
May 26, 2011, 12:30 PM
What part of your iPhone 4 is defective? Have you called Apple about it? Even better if you have AppleCare, but they'll often just replace it for free.

I dont have an iPhone 4. What good is applecare gonna do if they are gonna keep giving out the same defective phones as replacements?

And again if apple is so readily able to release a black defective iPhone 4, then why are they so above releasing a defective WHITE iphone 4(at release date)?

I mean, well they could of included a iphone rubberband with your iPhone 4 purchase, oh wait, they dont like giving away stuff... even if it remedies a defective by design iPhone. Oh well.

*LTD*
May 26, 2011, 12:31 PM
If you hold it in your hands, for some reason, you loose signal. :p

How do you have to hold it? It isn't working for me. I can still make calls.

Castiel
May 26, 2011, 12:34 PM
Nice to see a lot of people here supporting a teenager trafficking in stolen goods to sell a product he doesn't have any license to do. Should Apple have sent him a fruit basket instead?

dgree03
May 26, 2011, 12:34 PM
How do you have to hold it? It isn't working for me. I can still make calls.

reading is not your strong point I presume. He said you lose signal when holding it a certain way, particularily on the lower left hand corner, where the "gap" is present.

You will lose signal, but that doesnt mean you wont be able to make a call. That all depends on how strong your signal is to begin with.

PeterQVenkman
May 26, 2011, 12:36 PM
If by "innovative" you mean criminal. Apple did him a favor. Just imagine the bigger heists he might have run if he got away with it.

Studies have shown that kids who custom build white iPhone 4's are five times more likely to be involved in gangs.

*LTD*
May 26, 2011, 12:38 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

How do you have to hold it? It isn't working for me. I can still make calls.

reading is not your strong point I presume. He said you lose signal when holding it a certain way, particularily on the lower left hand corner, where the "gap" is present.

You will lose signal, but that doesnt mean you wont be able to make a call. That all depends on how strong your signal is to begin with.

I made it lose a bar by cupping the phone really tight in both my hands. Is that it? But I always move between 4-5 bars anyway. Even if I'm down to only 2 bars I can still make calls.

So where's the problem?

pepitko
May 26, 2011, 12:39 PM
I don't dispute the the "stolen" goods part. But I don't understand the copyright infringement. Yes, he sold conversion kits with Apple logos on them, but you can buy a recolored iPhone from moders with all logos as well, like here http://www.colorwarepc.com/. So to me, this seems like a big headline move by Apple's lawyers, followed by a settlement with possibly mild terms.

Zephyr240
May 26, 2011, 12:42 PM
Selling STOLEN parts = you get what you deserved.

It's that simple. Being young isn't a good enough justification.

This is not a case of Robin Hood where he stole these parts, swapped with people at no cost for black parts, and then returned all the black parts back to Apple. He acquired stolen parts, and sold it for a profit. Letting this go will only validate criminal activity like this.

Themaeds
May 26, 2011, 12:44 PM
forfeit


None WAS spared. Please get an education.






Awesome! A spelling and grammar bully!