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MacRumors
May 26, 2011, 11:42 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/26/google-announces-major-push-into-nfc-payments-with-google-wallet/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/google_wallet.jpg


Google today unveiled (http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/coming-soon-make-your-phone-your-wallet.html) its new Google Wallet (http://www.google.com/wallet/) initiative, a push into near field communications (NFC) that will allows users to make electronic payments with NFC-compatible hardware through the Google Wallet mobile app for Android.Today in our New York City office, along with Citi, MasterCard, First Data and Sprint, we gave a demo of Google Wallet, an app that will make your phone your wallet. You'll be able to tap, pay and save using your phone and near field communication (NFC). We're field testing Google Wallet now and plan to release it soon.Google Wallet will be able to store users' credit card, loyalty card, and gift card information electronically, making it easy to access the payment and discount methods at compatible points-of-sale. The app will also coordinate with Google Offers, a new program allowing merchants to offer discounts redeemable through NFC or barcode scanning.

Initial support for Google Wallet NFC payments comes from MasterCard, which will accept payment at hundreds of thousands of existing PayPass terminals. Google is also rolling out its own virtual "Google Prepaid Card", which can be funded by any major credit card. Google Prepaid Card comes with an initial $10 sign-up bonus, and there will be no fees on transactions to top up the card until at least the end of 2011.

Hardware support for Google Wallet will appear on the Nexus S 4G phone running on Sprint's network, but other compatible handsets will be added over time.

Rumors have gone back and forth over whether Apple will be adding NFC capabilities to the next-generation iPhone, with the general feeling (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/16/analyst-claims-no-nfc-in-next-generation-iphone/) currently being that Apple will add NFC to future iPhone models, but not necessarily for the next generation expected to be introduced later this year.

Article Link: Google Announces Major Push Into NFC Payments With Google Wallet (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/26/google-announces-major-push-into-nfc-payments-with-google-wallet/)



usptact
May 26, 2011, 11:45 AM
Brilliant. Chip embedding under the skin is not far any more.

JilzVT
May 26, 2011, 11:47 AM
Love it. Wallets, cash, credit cards, etc. are far past antiquated.

Azadre
May 26, 2011, 11:48 AM
If I lost my phone, how quickly can I remotely disable this service? Also, most vendors still lack NFC capabilities and I would still need to keep plastic around if I wanted to pay with credit.

I like the idea a lot, though.

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 11:49 AM
Sounds cool...but too Orwellian for me. Ill keep my wallet, thanks

skellener
May 26, 2011, 11:49 AM
....and there will be no fees on transactions to top up the card until at least the end of 2011. Pay attention here. This is where you'll get pinched. Can you say convenience fee? Expect to see bank fees, credit card fees and carrier fees attached to these NFC purchases in the future. Everyone is going to want a piece of that pie!

Roessnakhan
May 26, 2011, 11:50 AM
As long as its secure, I welcome the day when I don't have to carry a wallet around or print any documents (e.g. boarding passes). I keep my phone pin locked, so it would already be more secure than someone getting my wallet. Hopefully any fees attached wouldn't be too exorbitant.

TeamMojo
May 26, 2011, 11:50 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Hurry Apple. Google will screw this up. And Visa and MC have sat idle for years while fraud has grown. They deserve to b toppled.

paintblock
May 26, 2011, 11:52 AM
Thanks G2, now I'm locked into two years of not having a wallet.

jclardy
May 26, 2011, 11:53 AM
Love it. Wallets, cash, credit cards, etc. are far past antiquated.

I think it is cool, but there are still some things that would keep me from using it all the time (Other than the fact that the retailers have to support it...)

One is your phone battery. I charge it pretty much every night, but sometimes I forget to plug it in and it dies on the second day. If I only had a an e-wallet I wouldn't be able to put gas in my car.

Add that to the fact that I still have to carry around my drivers license, business cards and a little cash I don't think my real wallet is going anywhere. Maybe just getting a little smaller.

darkslayer13
May 26, 2011, 11:55 AM
Don't really know how I feel about this. Yes, it will increase convenience, but it will also spawn a new kind of thief - one who puts an NFC receiver in his pocket, brushes up against your pocket with your cell phone in it, and steals your money without having to pickpocket you. A wireless robber.

Also, if you lose your phone like I often do, does that mean that people who pick it up can use it as a limitless credit card? Sounds scary.

Born Again
May 26, 2011, 11:56 AM
AweSome

In before an iPhone user says it's stupid but then will get excited with apple's iTunes linked version!

snebes
May 26, 2011, 11:58 AM
Pay attention here. This is where you'll get pinched. Can you say convenience fee? Expect to see bank fees, credit card fees and carrier fees attached to these NFC purchases in the future. Everyone is going to want a piece of that pie!

This is in relation to the Google Prepaid Card. It is no different than the Greendot card, Rush card, or whatever other stupid pre-paid credit cards are out there.

It is not in relation to NFC, which has its fees covered by the merchant, not the customer. Again, no different than any other credit card.

BornAgainMac
May 26, 2011, 11:58 AM
I like how one device does so much.

maflynn
May 26, 2011, 11:58 AM
Brilliant. Chip embedding under the skin is not far any more.

Don't worry the embedded chip will include the number 666 free of charge

Piggie
May 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
This is great as long as we can do one thing.

Can we transfer money between phones?
That way we won't need cash really, if I can come round your home and you can sell me your old TV, and I can move $500 from my phone onto your phone then it's a winner.

michaellinehan
May 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
I so can't wait to trust my money to the Mother of Perpetual Beta!

Donz0r
May 26, 2011, 12:02 PM
If I lost my phone, how quickly can I remotely disable this service? Also, most vendors still lack NFC capabilities and I would still need to keep plastic around if I wanted to pay with credit.

I like the idea a lot, though.

You need to enter a pin to use it. Also, you would just call your credit card company and cancel it, or probably online you could deactivate it from your phone

makingdots
May 26, 2011, 12:02 PM
Don't really know how I feel about this. Yes, it will increase convenience, but it will also spawn a new kind of thief - one who puts an NFC receiver in his pocket, brushes up against your pocket with your cell phone in it, and steals your money without having to pickpocket you. A wireless robber.

Also, if you lose your phone like I often do, does that mean that people who pick it up can use it as a limitless credit card? Sounds scary.

Probably the implementation will require you to open an APP. So, it can't be scanned nor can send details if the app is not running.

ChazUK
May 26, 2011, 12:04 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Looking forward to see how this works out. Samsung and Orange in the UK are doing NFC payment trials right now I think.

Could be handy carrying around "one less thing"! ;)

ten-oak-druid
May 26, 2011, 12:04 PM
Apparently Mr. Camping blames the delay of the rapture on the slow implementation of NFC.

I think this NFC thing will not make waves in terms of getting people to buy phones and tablets. But it will slowly be embraced and appreciated over time.

sarcosis
May 26, 2011, 12:04 PM
Sounds cool...but too Orwellian for me. Ill keep my wallet, thanks

Agreed. I especially like the point where they knew exactly where you are at all times. I would be ok if there was NFC from say a stand and your phone picked up on it, but then I would be walking around with my phone on all the time looking at that instead of where i was going. If it used location based stuff via cell towers like everything does today, I say i'll pass.

As for the theft part, I think this would help curve it towards a positive (as in good) direction. Unlike the PayPass cards implemented now, it is not activated until POS or when you tell it to turn on. The ones right now embedded in your wallet are always on.

ThisIsNotMe
May 26, 2011, 12:04 PM
Great.
Now Google can track and sell data related to whatever I am purchasing.

Looks like Apple gets beaten to the market again in a market where the first major player is bound to set the standard.

alex.sebenski
May 26, 2011, 12:05 PM
Don't really know how I feel about this. Yes, it will increase convenience, but it will also spawn a new kind of thief - one who puts an NFC receiver in his pocket, brushes up against your pocket with your cell phone in it, and steals your money without having to pickpocket you. A wireless robber.

Also, if you lose your phone like I often do, does that mean that people who pick it up can use it as a limitless credit card? Sounds scary.

They've mentioned at the event that the chip is disabled while the phone is locked and requires a payment to be activated by the user. The only time someone could use an NFC receiver to make transfers without you knowing is while you're using it, when you should be aware of who has a receiver near you.

SilianRail
May 26, 2011, 12:06 PM
Great so when my phone dies I'm completely screwed.

alent1234
May 26, 2011, 12:12 PM
Don't really know how I feel about this. Yes, it will increase convenience, but it will also spawn a new kind of thief - one who puts an NFC receiver in his pocket, brushes up against your pocket with your cell phone in it, and steals your money without having to pickpocket you. A wireless robber.

Also, if you lose your phone like I often do, does that mean that people who pick it up can use it as a limitless credit card? Sounds scary.

this is the cool part you will have to put in a pin code for every transaction. so instead of giving the person at starbucks your iphone starbucks card app or a credit card you will have to open the NFC app, wait for it to sync with the POS machine, put in code, wait

sarcosis
May 26, 2011, 12:14 PM
It just seems that to get an offer, you don't need to be logged in to your wallet. One more step to the Minority Report future.

jayducharme
May 26, 2011, 12:14 PM
Great so when my phone dies I'm completely screwed.

That's what I was thinking. Plus, if you lose your phone, how would you call to cancel transactions on your phone? At least if I lose my wallet I still have my phone. There are some disadvantages to having your entire life stored on a single device.

and there will be no fees on transactions to top up the card until at least the end of 2011

... and after that, you will be shafted.

CFreymarc
May 26, 2011, 12:14 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Hurry Apple. Google will screw this up. And Visa and MC have sat idle for years while fraud has grown. They deserve to b toppled.

You have that right and Apple. Well Steve, it has been said, is waiting for people to screw this up and the iPhone NFC will "do it right." Those with the NFC, smartphone-based transaction IP was kicked to the curb in Cupertino after the "social trails."

There supposedly was a few hired models with RFID chips embedded in jewelry and fingernails and storing Facebook URLs going to clubs and bars for the past few months over select parts of the bay. Results were too "social freak" and the technology is considered immature for mainstream.

It was inevitable that Google is going to give it a try. If they don't take it, I'm sure Microsoft would do anything to get a leg up.

lord patton
May 26, 2011, 12:15 PM
As much as I don't want NFC payments, I want NFC payments via google even less.

jclardy
May 26, 2011, 12:16 PM
Great so when my phone dies I'm completely screwed.

Haha, yeah if your phone is busted you can't get a new one because your wallet is inside of your phone :D

Don't really know how I feel about this. Yes, it will increase convenience, but it will also spawn a new kind of thief - one who puts an NFC receiver in his pocket, brushes up against your pocket with your cell phone in it, and steals your money without having to pickpocket you. A wireless robber.

Also, if you lose your phone like I often do, does that mean that people who pick it up can use it as a limitless credit card? Sounds scary.

I saw in the presentation that the NFC chip is only active when the screen is on, so they would have to do it while you are using the phone.

sciwizam
May 26, 2011, 12:19 PM
Don't really know how I feel about this. Yes, it will increase convenience, but it will also spawn a new kind of thief - one who puts an NFC receiver in his pocket, brushes up against your pocket with your cell phone in it, and steals your money without having to pickpocket you. A wireless robber.

Also, if you lose your phone like I often do, does that mean that people who pick it up can use it as a limitless credit card? Sounds scary.

They had mentioned that NFC chip is not powered if the display is turned off, and the display has to be unlocked for NFC to work.

Žalgiris
May 26, 2011, 12:19 PM
Sounds cool...but too Orwellian for me. Ill keep my wallet, thanks

Same here. I like to feel paper in my wallet.

Consultant
May 26, 2011, 12:20 PM
So google can sell your spending habits to advertisers. No thanks, I'll stick with my mileage card.

SockRolid
May 26, 2011, 12:20 PM
..."Google Wallet will be able to store users' credit card, loyalty card, and gift card information electronically"...

I expect a huge bump in the number of apps on the droid market. Now there's new data to harvest.

smithrh
May 26, 2011, 12:20 PM
Google + NFC = non starter

Jeebus people, what more are you going to let them collect?

sciwizam
May 26, 2011, 12:21 PM
If I lost my phone, how quickly can I remotely disable this service? Also, most vendors still lack NFC capabilities and I would still need to keep plastic around if I wanted to pay with credit.

I like the idea a lot, though.

In the Q/A session, they mentioned "If you lose your phone, a bad guy can't pull your card information off it -- even if they've got the PIN."

That's from thisismynext.com

hundleton1
May 26, 2011, 12:24 PM
Unless the card companies do something to sort small retailers out this wont change a thing in the UK, most wont accept a card payment below £10 or they charge a fee for the low transaction, last week a garrage tolb me that any transaction below £10 gets a £1.50 charge :eek:, i just walked out and kleft my stuff on the counter, how is this going to change with NF???, the handler is still going to charge the shop of the transaction.

unless they drop fees for low value transactions it wont change a thing in the uk.

coder12
May 26, 2011, 12:27 PM
This is great as long as we can do one thing.

Can we transfer money between phones?
That way we won't need cash really, if I can come round your home and you can sell me your old TV, and I can move $500 from my phone onto your phone then it's a winner.

Paypal? :)

gschumsky
May 26, 2011, 12:27 PM
Don't really know how I feel about this. Yes, it will increase convenience, but it will also spawn a new kind of thief - one who puts an NFC receiver in his pocket, brushes up against your pocket with your cell phone in it, and steals your money without having to pickpocket you. A wireless robber.


A co-worker already had this happen with his credit card that has the built in chip- a number of his neighbors got their information stolen from a van that drove through the neighborhood at night and gathered data from cards (anyone have an American Express Blue), while people slept.

This is only going to make identity theft much much easier.

Stupid idea on behalf of Google and if Apple does it, same with them, unless they can absolutely positively guarantee all the information is secure and protected.

ArtOfWarfare
May 26, 2011, 12:29 PM
Great so when my phone dies I'm completely screwed.

I suspect any vendor accepting NFC payment would have a universal cable allowing you to give your dead phone just enough juice to make the transaction.

If you already need to take your phone out, launch the app, enter your PIN and accept the transaction, then it shouldn't be that much of an effort to plug your phone in at their terminal in case your battery is dead.

Mattstkc
May 26, 2011, 12:33 PM
Apple-Google love returns? I love all things i, but Google really knocked it out of the park with this one. Gift card, deal, coupon, loyalty card and payment options in one. Not just one app, but one tap.

C'mon Steve, just admit defeat on this one and put it in iPhone 4GS/5

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 12:34 PM
A co-worker already had this happen with his credit card that has the built in chip- a number of his neighbors got their information stolen from a van that drove through the neighborhood at night and gathered data from cards (anyone have an American Express Blue), while people slept.

This is only going to make identity theft much much easier.

Stupid idea on behalf of Google and if Apple does it, same with them, unless they can absolutely positively guarantee all the information is secure and protected.

Can you explain me how can it be done when NFC has a reach of moreless 25-30 cm?

hcri50
May 26, 2011, 12:35 PM
Pay attention here. This is where you'll get pinched. Can you say convenience fee? Expect to see bank fees, credit card fees and carrier fees attached to these NFC purchases in the future. Everyone is going to want a piece of that pie!

You are going to regret all the additional charges. This is no Freebee folks.

emvath
May 26, 2011, 12:36 PM
Nice idea in theory, but I'm going to need my wallet anyways for my drivers license, school ID, etc. so this really isn't going to save me from having to grab it too.

smithrh
May 26, 2011, 12:39 PM
Apple-Google love returns? I love all things i, but Google really knocked it out of the park with this one. Gift card, deal, coupon, loyalty card and payment options in one. Not just one app, but one tap.


Honestly, this is the LAST THING any sane and aware person should want.

Google fooled some people with bribes, that's clear and sad at the same time.

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 12:40 PM
Google fooled some people with bribes, that's clear and sad at the same time.


Wich bribes?

Dr McKay
May 26, 2011, 12:41 PM
LOL, I can picture Google looking at what you've been buying, and then targeting ads at you for the related products.

dustinsc
May 26, 2011, 12:41 PM
Agreed. I especially like the point where they knew exactly where you are at all times. I would be ok if there was NFC from say a stand and your phone picked up on it, but then I would be walking around with my phone on all the time looking at that instead of where i was going. If it used location based stuff via cell towers like everything does today, I say i'll pass.

As for the theft part, I think this would help curve it towards a positive (as in good) direction. Unlike the PayPass cards implemented now, it is not activated until POS or when you tell it to turn on. The ones right now embedded in your wallet are always on.

What? I'm still trying to figure out why you would be looking at your phone all the time because of an NFC payment system.

smithrh
May 26, 2011, 12:42 PM
Unless the card companies do something to sort small retailers out this wont change a thing in the UK, most wont accept a card payment below £10 or they charge a fee for the low transaction, last week a garrage tolb me that any transaction below £10 gets a £1.50 charge :eek:, i just walked out and kleft my stuff on the counter, how is this going to change with NF???, the handler is still going to charge the shop of the transaction.

unless they drop fees for low value transactions it wont change a thing in the uk.

Just FYI, the card agreement that vendors sign with the card companies in the US specifically rules this sort of behavior out. If you take Visa (for example), there's no minimum charge amount that you can charge.

But yes, many vendors have signs up that request minimum payment levels, but if a rep from Visa or Mastercard would walk in an see that sign, the vendor could lose their ability to take CCs altogether.

cvaldes
May 26, 2011, 12:43 PM
You are going to regret all the additional charges. This is no Freebee folks.
Historical data shows that the American consumer is quite willing to pay more for convenience.

If they really didn't, there wouldn't be things like prewashed salad mix, frozen dinners, ATMs, etc.

It's up to the individual to figure out if the convenience of anything is worth the expense. For example, you could save a lot of money if you didn't buy a motor vehicle and just walked everywhere. However, most American adults think that the convenience of having your own motorized transportation is worth the expense.

smithrh
May 26, 2011, 12:44 PM
Wich bribes?

The "oh it'll be easier, all in one" bribe, along with the "no fees on transactions" (for a while) bribe.

Not all bribes are money-based.

acidfast7
May 26, 2011, 12:45 PM
What would I want this again?

What's wrong with just having a credit card?

kenypowa
May 26, 2011, 12:46 PM
The "oh it'll be easier, all in one" bribe, along with the "no fees on transactions" (for a while) bribe.

Not all bribes are money-based.

Do you happen to be a follower of Harold Camping? Your logic doesn't make sense. :D

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Same here. I like to feel paper in my wallet.

I rarely have that experience :D

Mattstkc
May 26, 2011, 12:52 PM
What would I want this again?

What's wrong with just having a credit card?

I have an NFC payment dongle on my key ring now via Citibank and Mastercard. It's extremely useful when I'm running, or I go out late walking the dogs, or to the market early morning and am either not in clothes with pockets or without wallet by virtue of forgetfulness or choice, I ALWAYS have my keys and phone.

It works great, and I've lost it before. Call one number, cancelled in 5 minutes, replaced in 3 days. Great option to have.

I know it wouldn't fully replace my wallet, but my wallet could go from 15 cards to probably 2, and not even a wallet but a money clip with some spare cash.

Thunderhawks
May 26, 2011, 12:53 PM
AweSome

In before an iPhone user says it's stupid but then will get excited with apple's iTunes linked version!

Haha, I was going to post that.

Don't think they can get a 30% cut though:-)

jcalica
May 26, 2011, 12:54 PM
*during phone conversation*

"hey tim can you hold on, i have to pay for something..."

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 12:54 PM
What would I want this again?

What's wrong with just having a credit card?

Do you remember when was said "What's wrong with just having a check?"

Mattstkc
May 26, 2011, 12:54 PM
Google + NFC = non starter

Jeebus people, what more are you going to let them collect?

Google PoopDiary! So they know when to sell me laxative at 66% off!!:D:D

vincenz
May 26, 2011, 12:55 PM
Love it. Wallets, cash, credit cards, etc. are far past antiquated.

The future is exciting indeed.

hcho3
May 26, 2011, 12:55 PM
Very insecure...

No. No. No.

Unless they are willing to give high and I mean high rebates with NFC payments. I am not interested. The potential risks are very high.

Consultant
May 26, 2011, 12:56 PM
The question is, who is cheap enough to sell all their spending habit privacy for $10?

This is great as long as we can do one thing.

Can we transfer money between phones?
That way we won't need cash really, if I can come round your home and you can sell me your old TV, and I can move $500 from my phone onto your phone then it's a winner.

Can already do it from iOS app.
http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/17/paypal-and-bump-transfer-money-between-phones/

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 12:57 PM
Very insecure...

No. No. No.

Unless they are willing to give high and I mean high rebates with NFC payments. I am not interested. The potential risks are very high.

Why is very insecure?

sarcosis
May 26, 2011, 12:59 PM
What? I'm still trying to figure out why you would be looking at your phone all the time because of an NFC payment system.

It's more than a Payment system. It's two parts: one is the payment the other is Google Offers. Google offers is the "Coupon" system that they are implementing to kick out offers based on NFC. There was a follow up in the Q&A session that stated that the phone didn't need to be logged in to receive the offers. The Google Offers part is opt-in though, so that should alleviate some Spam.

ZMacintosh
May 26, 2011, 12:59 PM
it would be great and all if you werent tied to a specific carrier, phone plan, specific phone for that carrier.. etc. when phones can become universal such as portable computers than i think it will be way better.

ThisIsNotMe
May 26, 2011, 01:00 PM
In the Q/A session, they mentioned "If you lose your phone, a bad guy can't pull your card information off it -- even if they've got the PIN."

That's from thisismynext.com

That is what they *claim*.
I am sure someone will find a way around it like they find a way around everything else.

Consultant
May 26, 2011, 01:01 PM
What would I want this again?

What's wrong with just having a credit card?

So Google can make money from its herd of users, by selling data to Google's real customers: advertisers.

cvaldes
May 26, 2011, 01:08 PM
Very insecure...

No. No. No.

Unless they are willing to give high and I mean high rebates with NFC payments. I am not interested. The potential risks are very high.
Nah, the Japanese and South Koreans have been using RFID-chipped cellphones since 2005 and there are no horror stories coming out of Southeast Asia. The Japanese call them "osaifu keitai" (literally "wallet phone").

They use them as transit passes, entertainment ticketing, loyalty programs, buying groceries, etc. The "osaifu keitai" had rapid consumer acceptance due to the fact that it could function as a Mobile Suica card (the pass for the big JR East rail system covering metropolitan Tokyo).

This isn't uncharted territory. The United States is (again) way behind in mobile telephony technology.

In any case, you aren't required to use the system. You are free to pay cash or pull out your wallet and swipe a credit card.

Necross
May 26, 2011, 01:08 PM
I can admit the convienience is nice, but seriously... How wise is it wise to have all your banking stuff on a mobile device that can easily be lost or stolen, a lot easier than your wallet could?

You know what they say about a fool and his money...

Themaeds
May 26, 2011, 01:14 PM
Great so when my phone dies I'm completely screwed.

Or dont throw away your credit cards?

#Overreaction

toddybody
May 26, 2011, 01:14 PM
Why is very insecure?

Since NFC works via remote proximity...the possibility exists that someone could charge you as they walk by. Also, if your phone is stolen, you're FUBAR.

Piggie
May 26, 2011, 01:20 PM
The question is, who is cheap enough to sell all their spending habit privacy for $10?



Can already do it from iOS app.
http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/17/paypal-and-bump-transfer-money-between-phones/

Funnily enough, after I posted that I thought about PayPal already being in place.

Of course, it means everyone should get a PayPal account and it needs to work across all platforms.

They do take a cut though :(

sarcosis
May 26, 2011, 01:22 PM
Since NFC works via remote proximity...the possibility exists that someone could charge you as they walk by. Also, if your phone is stolen, you're FUBAR.

The NFC send function is only enabled if you are currently logged into your wallet which requires a PIN. If you are not actively logged in, it doesn't transmit, so it's less likely than a traditional NFC chip in the Credit Cards that you see today.

Also, lock your phone with a pin or the sequence thing that Android has. Loose your phone, remote wipe it and you are good.

ratzzo
May 26, 2011, 01:23 PM
Since NFC works via remote proximity...the possibility exists that someone could charge you as they walk by. Also, if your phone is stolen, you're FUBAR.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume to unlock NFC payment options you'll have to enter a code. And this code, while in the memory, might be encrypted.

Funkymonk
May 26, 2011, 01:31 PM
lol so many haters. If apple did this everyone would be frothing in the mouth about how amazing it is. truly pathetic bunch having a tech company be your religion

iCrizzo
May 26, 2011, 01:32 PM
Its going to be hard to swipe a Android phone into my square! :p

BlindMellon
May 26, 2011, 01:33 PM
Great. I like how everyone was behind this when Apple was connected but now that google beat them to the punch it's the worst idea ever.

I'm not particularly interested no matter who's behind it though.

ciTiger
May 26, 2011, 01:33 PM
YES! Here is a fine reason to get an android! Too bad no store here in Portugal uses it yet...

Azadre
May 26, 2011, 01:34 PM
lol so many haters. If apple did this everyone would be frothing in the mouth about how amazing it is. truly pathetic bunch having a tech company be your religion

Like how we're all super excited about the tablet like changes coming to Lion?

Mattstkc
May 26, 2011, 01:43 PM
I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume to unlock NFC payment options you'll have to enter a code. And this code, while in the memory, might be encrypted.

BUT you can leave your wallet Auto-logged in in the background. I'm sure this will come with a timeout built in. I'm wondering if this falls under Citibank's fraud coverage. If it does, it should fall under any major bank's fraud coverage and you'll be fine.

jeman
May 26, 2011, 01:44 PM
NFC is official now by Google.
Bravo Google for braving it.
We now have to see how it works out with time.

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 01:45 PM
Since NFC works via remote proximity...the possibility exists that someone could charge you as they walk by. Also, if your phone is stolen, you're FUBAR.

NFC range is 25-30 cm, the screen has to be unlocked, an app executed an a pin typed to enable the system.

If the phone is stolen the thief needs still the PIN

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 01:46 PM
BUT you can leave your wallet Auto-logged in in the background.

Nop, they don-t work without an app in foreground

vartanarsen
May 26, 2011, 01:53 PM
My precious iPhone 4----- + ------Starbucks kid's Greasy,oily hands all over it = disaster sone for my OCD

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 01:58 PM
lol so many haters. If apple did this everyone would be frothing in the mouth about how amazing it is. truly pathetic bunch having a tech company be your religion

It's not religious. It is logical.

Apple has never screwed me over. Apple has never cheated me, and I'm unaware of Apple ever violating people's privacy, or stealing other companies products. Apple has never callously lost my data.

Google has done all of the above. I can't even trust google with email anymore.

I'm sure as hell not going to trust them with anything financial!

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 02:00 PM
Great. I like how everyone was behind this when Apple was connected but now that google beat them to the punch it's the worst idea ever.

I'm not particularly interested no matter who's behind it though.

I don't think google has really beat them to the punch.

Google has become like microsoft. They get wind that a competitor is doing something and then release a press release. Just like the google music service pretends to "beat apple to the punch".

Apple waits until the product is ready to go, and then starts selling it.

Apple is usually first to actually market their products while google is still issuing press releases and talking about vaporware.

Like Microsoft!

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 02:00 PM
It's not religious. It is logical.

Apple has never screwed me over. Apple has never cheated me, and I'm unaware of Apple ever violating people's privacy, or stealing other companies products. Apple has never callously lost my data.

Google has done all of the above. I can't even trust google with email anymore.

I'm sure as hell not going to trust them with anything financial!

They have also steal your girlfriend? My God, how much hatred

Xpress
May 26, 2011, 02:01 PM
I use cash when I can; banks hate cash. :mad:

Stores like cash. :)

grahamwright1
May 26, 2011, 02:10 PM
lol so many haters. If apple did this everyone would be frothing in the mouth about how amazing it is. truly pathetic bunch having a tech company be your religion

For some of us it's more the concern about how much personal information you are handing Google, so with this they know exactly what you buy alongside where you surf. Other companies can certainly gather this information from other sources, but there's a bit of a groundswell of concern over Google in particular.

Necross
May 26, 2011, 02:13 PM
I use cash when I can; banks hate cash. :mad:

Stores like cash. :)

Yep.. cash is king.. I always go for that over plastic whenever I can. I bought a PS3 with cash a couple years back, and the kid at best buy looked at me funny...

JayMBP
May 26, 2011, 02:13 PM
For you people who haven't gone through the Google presentation today, you should really watch it. It addresses many of your "possible scenarios"

Phone lost: not able to log into phones, data can be remotely wiped.

NFC mining machine: NFC controller is not powered without the user actually activating it. No use for receptors trying to make phony transactions.

Google data mining: opt-in by users for coupons/offers. Stay out if you don't want your privacy to be breached.

Credit Card data extraction while phone not in possession: Google does NOT store any of your card and banking data. Those data will never be routed or shared in anyway. Google wallet connects to your banks for permission. But does NOT store the actual info. All data are handled by separate companies, making a one-hack, all-data almost impossible. The only thing Google have any sort of control is on the app and NFC controller.

Feel safer with your wallet in hand: How is this so different than having your phone in hand? Your CC/Cash in your wallet is not any safer than your cell in your pocket. As a matter of fact, to use Google wallet, you need a PIN. If anyone got your wallet, it's free gas before you cancel your CC. But I guess all power to you.

Last but not least, if you really don't want to use your CC but want to take advantage of NFC, you could always get a prepaid google wallet... so you will always know how much money is in there.

JayMBP
May 26, 2011, 02:18 PM
Apple is usually first to actually market their products while google is still issuing press releases and talking about vaporware.


Hey, now you can't say Google isn't learning... we hear iPhone's NFC rumors all the time... now Google came up first... and as for Apple? not even press release... just rumors.

We can't say NFC payment is ready or not... but from what I see in my local stores... paypass is available in most of the grab-and-go type of stores...

Piggie
May 26, 2011, 02:18 PM
I use cash when I can; banks hate cash. :mad:

Stores like cash. :)

I like cash.

It's real (no chance for someone to say the cheque was bad or anything)
No-one has any record of it (can't follow what you buy, where and from whom)
Cash can get you discounts at some times, as official people don't always need to know (tax etc)

Builders are the most helpful when it comes for cash I have been told.

darkslayer13
May 26, 2011, 02:23 PM
It's not religious. It is logical.

Apple has never screwed me over. Apple has never cheated me, and I'm unaware of Apple ever violating people's privacy, or stealing other companies products. Apple has never callously lost my data.

Google has done all of the above. I can't even trust google with email anymore.

I'm sure as hell not going to trust them with anything financial!

Dunno if you've been reading the news, but if you have an iphone, apple has been tracking you wherever you go. I tried it online with my iphone, and saw places i visited 2 years ago when I got my iPhone 3GS. Scary s***!

grahamwright1
May 26, 2011, 02:31 PM
Dunno if you've been reading the news, but if you have an iphone, apple has been tracking you wherever you go. I tried it online with my iphone, and saw places i visited 2 years ago when I got my iPhone 3GS. Scary s***!

Keep up with the news - it's captured on your phone but never sent to Apple....

kintaco
May 26, 2011, 02:34 PM
My precious iPhone 4----- + ------Starbucks kid's Greasy,oily hands all over it = disaster sone for my OCD

This thread is making my head hurt! You don't hand your phone over to anyone, you swipe it yourself.

darkslayer13
May 26, 2011, 02:39 PM
Keep up with the news - it's captured on your phone but never sent to Apple....

So they say....yet also secretly tracked your location without notifying anyone...sounds scummy to me.

P.S. I just placed a GPS tracker behind you ear without you knowing, tracking you wherever you go. But dont worry, its not transmitting to anyone, just secretly tracking your location without your approval and saving the data to its HD.
....thats cool with you, right?

einmusiker
May 26, 2011, 02:42 PM
can't wait until I can open my house doors, car doors, start my car, open my hotel door, pay for everything all with my jesus phone. It even becomes a treadmill!

hundleton1
May 26, 2011, 02:47 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Unless the card companies do something to sort small retailers out this wont change a thing in the UK, most wont accept a card payment below £10 or they charge a fee for the low transaction, last week a garrage tolb me that any transaction below £10 gets a £1.50 charge :eek:, i just walked out and kleft my stuff on the counter, how is this going to change with NF???, the handler is still going to charge the shop of the transaction.

unless they drop fees for low value transactions it wont change a thing in the uk.

Just FYI, the card agreement that vendors sign with the card companies in the US specifically rules this sort of behavior out. If you take Visa (for example), there's no minimum charge amount that you can charge.

But yes, many vendors have signs up that request minimum payment levels, but if a rep from Visa or Mastercard would walk in an see that sign, the vendor could lose their ability to take CCs altogether.

That's alot better, over here it's a nightmare, you can't buy anything under £5/£10 with out occurring a charge, it's a complete con.

Žalgiris
May 26, 2011, 03:31 PM
Dunno if you've been reading the news, but if you have an iphone, apple has been tracking you wherever you go. I tried it online with my iphone, and saw places i visited 2 years ago when I got my iPhone 3GS. Scary s***!

Really? I can say it's all bull, pal. It was recording locations of nearest GSM towers/wifi spots to better and faster get location when you actally need it (TomTom for example) and not your actual location (as in GPS coordinates).

I tested it myself in a location with no signal. If it was using GPS to track i would be able to see that using that app, but to no surprise the last point app showed was a tower about 25 KM from where i was.

ThisIsNotMe
May 26, 2011, 03:52 PM
Dunno if you've been reading the news, but if you have an iphone, apple has been tracking you wherever you go. I tried it online with my iphone, and saw places i visited 2 years ago when I got my iPhone 3GS. Scary s***!

I think you need to reread what Apple was doing.

ChazUK
May 26, 2011, 03:53 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Blade Build/FRG83) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

Dunno if you've been reading the news, but if you have an iphone, apple has been tracking you wherever you go. I tried it online with my iphone, and saw places i visited 2 years ago when I got my iPhone 3GS. Scary s***!

Really? I can say it's all bull, pal. It was recording locations of nearest GSM towers/wifi spots to better and faster get location when you actally need it (TomTom for example) and not your actual location (as in GPS coordinates).

I tested it myself in a location with no signal. If it was using GPS to track i would be able to see that using that app, but to no surprise the last point app showed was a tower about 25 KM from where i was.

Not only that, the location tracking bug was introduced with iOS 4.x which as far as I know, hasn't been out 2 years.... :p

darkslayer13
May 26, 2011, 04:02 PM
Really? I can say it's all bull, pal. It was recording locations of nearest GSM towers/wifi spots to better and faster get location when you actally need it (TomTom for example) and not your actual location (as in GPS coordinates).

I tested it myself in a location with no signal. If it was using GPS to track i would be able to see that using that app, but to no surprise the last point app showed was a tower about 25 KM from where i was.

Well, I ran the app that was released from a backup on my computer the iPhone made and this is what I got. 100% accurately tracked everywhere I've been over the past 2 yrs. It should be noted that this is the zoomed out view, but I was also able to zoom in to see street-level details of my past locations.

JAT
May 26, 2011, 04:40 PM
NFC range is 25-30 cm, the screen has to be unlocked, an app executed an a pin typed to enable the system.

Wow, that is a lot of work. I thought NFC was supposed to be faster than cash/credit!?
Well, I ran the app that was released from a backup on my computer the iPhone made and this is what I got. 100% accurately tracked everywhere I've been over the past 2 yrs. It should be noted that this is the zoomed out view, but I was also able to zoom in to see street-level details of my past locations.
So, what are you hiding?

ShiningShiny
May 26, 2011, 04:48 PM
Using your phone instead of a credit card has been in Japan and S. Korea for the last several years.

Seeing how so many people are responding to this concept like it's some kind of pre-apocalyptic technological mistake just shows once again how cell phone technology in the States is so behind compared to that in Asia.

FaceTime/video call via cell phone? Japanese and Korean cell phones had those since 2007 (albeit probably not the same quality as the ones on iPhones). Watching T.V. on your phone? Japanese and Korean cell phones let you do that for free, and they had that years before we got our first pay-to-watch TV via cell phone.

Using your phone instead of using a credit card is another addition on the list.

People should also not freak out so much. If using your phone as a credit card has been safely implemented in other countries for the last 6+ years, I doubt there is any reason why it'll suddenly go awry when implemented into the States.

rjohnstone
May 26, 2011, 05:01 PM
A co-worker already had this happen with his credit card that has the built in chip- a number of his neighbors got their information stolen from a van that drove through the neighborhood at night and gathered data from cards (anyone have an American Express Blue), while people slept.

This is only going to make identity theft much much easier.

Stupid idea on behalf of Google and if Apple does it, same with them, unless they can absolutely positively guarantee all the information is secure and protected.
Complete and utter BS. :rolleyes:

You have to be within a inches of the card to read it.
Driving around with a van scanning cards is impossible.

And yes, I have an Amex Blue card with the chip.
Works great, but 99% of the time you have to physically touch the reader with the card to get it to take.

jettredmont
May 26, 2011, 05:20 PM
Sounds cool...but too Orwellian for me. Ill keep my wallet, thanks

Not sure how NFC makes owning a credit card (or multiple such) any more Orwellian.

The NFC replaces swiping the card. The app replaces a wallet full of physical cards.

The only concern I have is that Google tends to "conveniently" sync a little too much up to "the cloud". I don't want a honeypot of credit card info sitting on Google's servers just waiting to be hacked a la Sony. I'd only buy into this if there was an ABSOLUTE guarantee that the card information is stored locally only and completely lost if I sync a new phone up to my account.

John Dillinger
May 26, 2011, 05:21 PM
What would I want this again?

What's wrong with just having a credit card?

... Google and the entire industry want this stuff to replace all cards...

So you can have your members cards... driving license.. ID everything.. think of the costs the companies will save having to mail you out replacements.. it will all be digital.

Further, regards security the system is obviously no less secure than chip and PIN.. otherwise the banks.. ie those that actually hold your money, would never sign up to the scheme. Think people :)

John Dillinger
May 26, 2011, 05:28 PM
Using your phone instead of a credit card has been in Japan and S. Korea for the last several years.

Seeing how so many people are responding to this concept like it's some kind of pre-apocalyptic technological mistake just shows once again how cell phone technology in the States is so behind compared to that in Asia.

FaceTime/video call via cell phone? Japanese and Korean cell phones had those since 2007 (albeit probably not the same quality as the ones on iPhones). Watching T.V. on your phone? Japanese and Korean cell phones let you do that for free, and they had that years before we got our first pay-to-watch TV via cell phone.

Using your phone instead of using a credit card is another addition on the list.

People should also not freak out so much. If using your phone as a credit card has been safely implemented in other countries for the last 6+ years, I doubt there is any reason why it'll suddenly go awry when implemented into the States.

Lol video calling was in Asia well before 2007.. heck...the N73 which I owned.. had video calling on Three network UK.. released in 2006. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N73) And that was over 3G...2011, better quality or not... still not on iPhone.

Basically.. sadly a lot of the posters on here dont seem to know about any tech not done by Apple.. because Apple obviously innovates eveythring and others just rip them off and need to be sued... stick it to em Apple!! :rolleyes:

ShiningShiny
May 26, 2011, 05:39 PM
Lol video calling was in Asia well before 2007.. heck...the N73 which I owned.. had video calling on Three network UK.. released in 2006. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N73) And that was over 3G...2011, better quality or not... still not on iPhone.

Basically.. sadly a lot of the posters on here dont seem to know about any tech not done by Apple.. because Apple obviously innovates eveythring and others just rip them off and need to be sued... stick it to em Apple!! :rolleyes:

Yeah, I mean I think Apple is just being smart, using PR to make something like FaceTime seem totally new and innovative, when really... it's kind of old news in other parts of the world.

It used to irk me a bit when I saw Apple always propaganda-ing stuff that was already invented in the Japanese/Korean phone market long before they made it as something "totally innovative, first made by Apple", but... Seeing all the consumers who blindly believe all that, all I gotta say is... Touche Apple, Touche, your PR iron fist is absolutely amazing.

msimpson
May 26, 2011, 05:55 PM
OK, so all sheeple will be happy they can wave their cell phone around and pay for their double cappaccino vente bucket at starbucks, and then later when they want a RedBull they can wave it around it 7-Eleven. But after that, what is it good for? What can it do that a debit or credit card can't do? And more importantly will it be secure? The technology companies keep making up crap to sell us because they can't charge premium prices for commodity items - if it isn't new, then it is not important. But seriously, this is no major game changer like some companies would like you to believe.

msimpson
May 26, 2011, 05:58 PM
Well, I ran the app that was released from a backup on my computer the iPhone made and this is what I got. 100% accurately tracked everywhere I've been over the past 2 yrs. It should be noted that this is the zoomed out view, but I was also able to zoom in to see street-level details of my past locations.

You need to get out more. Maybe take a trip to another state? Ever seen Mt Rushmore?

Tilpots
May 26, 2011, 07:07 PM
I'm excited for NFC payments! Not welcoming this technology is like longing for the days of the buggy and whip. Yeah, you're that guy. Boy was he wrong.

It's secure, convenient, and simple. No brainer, people, no brainer. Now we just have to get all the retailers and other credit card companies on board.

Xenc
May 26, 2011, 07:18 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Awesome.

darkslayer13
May 26, 2011, 07:23 PM
You need to get out more. Maybe take a trip to another state? Ever seen Mt Rushmore?

Lol, funny. This is zoomed in to the state my college is located. I could have zoomed out to the world, but that would have defeated the point of showing that it tracked me in specific locations. Moron.

kalex
May 26, 2011, 08:36 PM
People need to stop spreadhing misinformation. All the security concerns were addressed during the presentation.

Everybody is bashing google yet when apple announces its own iNFC it will be treated as magical, blah blah.

It has been used in Japan and Korea for a while with no major issues so put away your tinfoil hats.

I for one find it convenient to use my phone to pay for stuff. Specially combined with google offers where I can get discounts, offers and everything else that goes along with it to automatically appear in my google wallet and get applied during purchases instead of clipping, printing and hunting coupons online.

As far as privacy issues, you are already being tracked all over the place. You are in 21st century, admit it, accept it and move on. As far as using cash goes, you'd be surprised how much they can track your cash. Every bill has a serial number so if you think that by paying cash u are not tracked you are in for a surprise :)

maclaptop
May 26, 2011, 08:52 PM
Now that Google has paved the way here in the US, perhaps Apple will follow. Or not.

Dbrown
May 26, 2011, 11:25 PM
lol at all the tinfoil hat wearing people saying nfc isnt secure. If it wasnt secure banks and credit card companies (you know, the ones who are on the hook when there are fraudulent charges on your account) wouldnt be on board. DUH!!!

jb1280
May 27, 2011, 12:18 AM
I'm not optimistic about NFC payments at the moment for two main reasons.

First, there is probably a generational thing at play here. While by all accounts this will be very secure, I am uncertain that people of a certain age and who have grown accustomed to paying with plastic will be willing to move onto a new payment method.

Second, fragmentation. Google is doing its own thing, presumably to mine user data. Apple will do its own thing, presumably to leverage the huge number of iTunes accounts. The mobile carriers have their own interests, which probably run counter to Google or Apple. Finally, there is the question about Visa, MasterCard, as well as the banks who have their own interests.

Piggie
May 27, 2011, 01:43 AM
P As far as using cash goes, you'd be surprised how much they can track your cash. Every bill has a serial number so if you think that by paying cash u are not tracked you are in for a surprise :)

Are you mad :eek:

Cash is not tracked, it can't be. No one has access to the cash whilst it moved between individuals.
They may issue money with certain numbers to one area of the country, and at times, that money may find its way back into banks or places where is gets destroyed as it's becoming tatty.
But cash notes could go for years, through hundreds of transactions between people before anyone or anything, apart from the general public even see it, let along scan serial numbers.

moore2772
May 27, 2011, 01:52 AM
From Google's Google Wallet site:
Can I use Google Wallet with my phone?
Google Wallet with tap and pay will be compatible with Nexus S 4G by Google, available on Sprint®.
Sprint is a partner in the venture, so expect the service to stay there for the time being.

Also, given how many places now have PayPass that don't work, I think this system is going to lead to a lot of frustration. Barcode readers make more sense, a la Starbucks. No near field needed.

ScottishDuck
May 27, 2011, 01:57 AM
For those of you claiming that NFC is somehow insecure. Maybe you should look up the security of Chip+PIN or to be more specific, its complete lack of.

KingCrimson
May 27, 2011, 02:12 AM
As long as I don't have to pay extra I'm fine with it. I currently don't pay any annual fees for credit cards, so I'm not going to pay anything for NFC.

Cougarcat
May 27, 2011, 02:20 AM
That is what they *claim*.
I am sure someone will find a way around it like they find a way around everything else.

I see it as moot. You can remote wipe your phone if you lose it.

An article I read said that Google wants to it to eventually hold your driver's license. How on earth would that ever work?

"Sorry, officer, I'd love to show you my license, but my phone just died."

Dbrown
May 27, 2011, 03:18 AM
I see it as moot. You can remote wipe your phone if you lose it.

An article I read said that Google wants to it to eventually hold your driver's license. How on earth would that ever work?

"Sorry, officer, I'd love to show you my license, but my phone just died."

Then he would write you a ticket for driving without a license and say: "Well that's too bad, next time keep a USB cable in your glove box, they only cost a few dollars.."

Piggie
May 27, 2011, 04:07 AM
As long as I don't have to pay extra I'm fine with it. I currently don't pay any annual fees for credit cards, so I'm not going to pay anything for NFC.

Well, in a roundabout way we do pay. Everyone does.
Retailers have to pay the credit card companies when you pay using your card.

A rare few would give one price for credit card, one price for cash.

The vast majority have 1 price no matter how you pay, so this additional amount the retailers lose, I think it's 2% ish, is factored into the price anyway.

So it seems like it's free, but it's not really.

caspersoong
May 27, 2011, 08:11 AM
This will definitely increase the crime rate IMO.

JAT
May 27, 2011, 08:31 AM
Everybody is bashing google yet when apple announces its own iNFC it will be treated as magical, blah blah.


Source?

rdowns
May 27, 2011, 08:55 AM
Just another failed Google attempt to make money in anything other than ads.

See Buzz, Wave, Google TV, Google Music.


Source?


MacRumors, after Apple announces theirs.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 27, 2011, 08:56 AM
Nobody cares to go through this bit? I am surprised.

I don't know if I should be supporting Google for this. They did bring out something new [for some of the people]; but looking at this law suit, I just feel sad.

The company that used to once innovate [Google], back in the days, is now a hypocritical conjuncture of sad souls; copying every other technology company for all/some of its products.

Just read the law suit and you'd be surprised.

http://www.ebayinc.com/assets/pdf/fact_sheet/2011_PayPal_DOC.pdf

Looking at this and the sky-hook lawsuit, I have literally lost all faith in Google and its products. The company seems to be very self centered and can ditch possibly any partner for their own selfish interests.

Just sad.

Oletros
May 27, 2011, 02:19 PM
Just another failed Google attempt to make money in anything other than ads.

Failed? Why? It hasn't even started

Rodimus Prime
May 27, 2011, 02:21 PM
Then he would write you a ticket for driving without a license and say: "Well that's too bad, next time keep a USB cable in your glove box, they only cost a few dollars.."

That or do the smart thing like keep your dl in the car.

rjohnstone
May 27, 2011, 02:37 PM
This will definitely increase the crime rate IMO.
How so?
I can do more damage to your credit and identity by stealing your physical wallet than NFC data (which holds no actual card data) from your phone.
Even if I had your phone, I can't do anything without your PIN.

This paranoia about NFC wallets is unwarranted at best.
NFC requires a PIN before any data is sent.

RFID enabled credit cards are far easier targets as you only need to brush against them with a reader to collect the card data.

The real issue would be how much do you trust Google and your bank/CC company from misusing the data.

rdowns
May 27, 2011, 03:03 PM
Failed? Why? It hasn't even started

Poor wording on my part. It's destined to fail, consumers don't want this. Only a bunch of geeks do. We can't get Americans off dollar bills, you think they're going to trade their credit card for their phone.

Rodimus Prime
May 27, 2011, 03:19 PM
Poor wording on my part. It's destined to fail, consumers don't want this. Only a bunch of geeks do. We can't get Americans off dollar bills, you think they're going to trade their credit card for their phone.

You need to look at the age group who would jump on this and the ones that will never make the switch. The younger age group 30 or less will be much more likely to pick it up awe grew up in the digital revolution. The old you go the less likely they would be willing to use the newer stuff.
Take example on cellphone only group vs land line there is a clear age line where the divide is. This will be the same thing. I know I would love this NFC to be on my phone. I also am a technology guy 28 years old and pay for everything with plastic (that I pay off in full every month). I use the nfc on my amex card all the time.

Tilpots
May 27, 2011, 08:49 PM
We can't get Americans off dollar bills, you think they're going to trade their credit card for their phone.

Consumers absolutely want this. As Rodimus Prime noted, it's a generational thing. Google may be kicking off the Mainstream use of NFC payments, but every credit issuer, retailer and consumer will soon be on board. Cash and credit cards aren't as pratical as an embedded NFC chip in a handheld device.

Apple Big Mac
May 28, 2011, 06:44 AM
Not sure how NFC makes owning a credit card (or multiple such) any more Orwellian.

The NFC replaces swiping the card. The app replaces a wallet full of physical cards.

The only concern I have is that Google tends to "conveniently" sync a little too much up to "the cloud". I don't want a honeypot of credit card info sitting on Google's servers just waiting to be hacked a la Sony. I'd only buy into this if there was an ABSOLUTE guarantee that the card information is stored locally only and completely lost if I sync a new phone up to my account.
This is the most well thought out critique of Google's new service that I've read so far in this thread. The debit/credit cards themselves won't be stored in full form on the phone but will be on Google's servers. And that means there is the possibility that Google could be breached and your entire wallet full of cards compromised. Remember, high level Google corporate accounts got hacked by China not too long ago, so it's not like Google is that much better in the security sphere than Sony, hypothetically speaking. If I were to use a smart phone NFC app, it would be a while before I would trust it with high valued accounts.

JAT
May 28, 2011, 11:16 AM
You need to look at the age group who would jump on this and the ones that will never make the switch. The younger age group 30 or less will be much more likely to pick it up awe grew up in the digital revolution. The old you go the less likely they would be willing to use the newer stuff.
Take example on cellphone only group vs land line there is a clear age line where the divide is. This will be the same thing. I know I would love this NFC to be on my phone. I also am a technology guy 28 years old and pay for everything with plastic (that I pay off in full every month). I use the nfc on my amex card all the time.
And yet, you'll have to convince other groups about the usefulness. Those would be the retailers that base decisions on more than one age group. They actually have to install NFC before you can use it.

KnightWRX
May 28, 2011, 11:47 AM
And yet, you'll have to convince other groups about the usefulness. Those would be the retailers that base decisions on more than one age group. They actually have to install NFC before you can use it.

And like any retailer, they will offer the option. Retailers just want their cash, they don't care if you have a credit card, a debit card or cold hard bills. NFC ? No sweat.

This doesn't have to become the only way to pay for it to be successful. Let go of the MacRumors "There must only be one (and it must be Apple Branded)!" way of thinking for once and open your eyes. Credit cards didn't do away with dollar bills, debit cards didn't do away with credit cards and this won't do away with the 3 other payment methods.

It'll just be one more option.

Blah64
May 28, 2011, 07:14 PM
I have an NFC payment dongle on my key ring now via Citibank and Mastercard. It's extremely useful when I'm running, or I go out late walking the dogs, or to the market early morning and am either not in clothes with pockets or without wallet by virtue of forgetfulness or choice, I ALWAYS have my keys and phone.

If you're not in clothes with pockets, wth do you keep your phone?!

Here's a much better lifestyle choice: I might forget my phone due to forgetfulness or choice, but I ALWAYS have my keys and wallet.

Seriously.

Blah64
May 28, 2011, 07:24 PM
RFID enabled credit cards are far easier targets as you only need to brush against them with a reader to collect the card data.

Some of this can be mitigated through various security methods, however...

The real issue would be how much do you trust Google and your bank/CC company from misusing the data.

Thank goodness some people understand. This is the big problem. Actually, the data gathering and profiling is already a problem, but if google gets involved you can add a large multiplication factor of problems and attack vectors.

Remember, Eric Schmidt said (and I quote): "We know where you are. We know where you’ve been. We can more or less know what you’re thinking about."

Is that a party you want monitoring all your purchases on top of your searches and 24/7 location?!

smithrh
May 29, 2011, 01:15 PM
Thank goodness some people understand. This is the big problem. Actually, the data gathering and profiling is already a problem, but if google gets involved you can add a large multiplication factor of problems and attack vectors.

Remember, Eric Schmidt said (and I quote): "We know where you are. We know where you’ve been. We can more or less know what you’re thinking about."

Is that a party you want monitoring all your purchases on top of your searches and 24/7 location?!

Oh, some of us get it just fine, but there are sheeple amongst us...

It sure looks like the "do no evil" company stole at least trade secrets if not a lot more from PayPal (another company I really don't like, but that's not the point here).

I know quite a few people in the CC industry from grad B-school. They're quite eager to do whatever it takes to meet goals, and if your personal data is involved, honestly they don't care. Throw in the naivety of many workers from Google and this winds up being a fairly unholy alliance.

rickjs
May 30, 2011, 05:17 AM
Woooooowww. How has Google Music failed? It's barely even started! o.O We don't know if this is going to take off, so everything negative should just give it a chance before they say it sucks.

Me, I think it will take off no matter what happens. Reasoning? Because if it doesn't take off before apple does it, then apple will do it, whether better or not, and then more and more people will start to use it because it's all their phone has.

Malcolm.
May 30, 2011, 08:36 AM
Source?

Every post on this forum ever.

JAT
May 30, 2011, 04:47 PM
And like any retailer, they will offer the option. Retailers just want their cash, they don't care if you have a credit card, a debit card or cold hard bills. NFC ? No sweat.

This doesn't have to become the only way to pay for it to be successful. Let go of the MacRumors "There must only be one (and it must be Apple Branded)!" way of thinking for once and open your eyes. Credit cards didn't do away with dollar bills, debit cards didn't do away with credit cards and this won't do away with the 3 other payment methods.

It'll just be one more option.
Yeah, let me know when it arrives at all the stores I shop at. I'm a realist, it needs to be in the store before I care about it in my pocket.

Oh, and your assumptions are unwarranted if that middle paragraph is directed at me.
Every post on this forum ever.
Except yours no doubt, since you are an anti-Apple troll.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 04:55 PM
And yet, you'll have to convince other groups about the usefulness. Those would be the retailers that base decisions on more than one age group. They actually have to install NFC before you can use it.

umm they already are in place in multiple stores. Do you want me to take a picture of the NFC devices at my college campus on the coke machines or at multiple fast food places (McDonalds, Whataburger, Buger King, Wendy's), I have used it at Fry's electronics, and Best Buy. My grocery store (HEB) uses it. I know I have used it at a gas station. All that with my AMEX card.

So NFC is already in us. Retailers do not have to anything. All they need is a NFC at the point of sale which is already happening.
If you're not in clothes with pockets, wth do you keep your phone?!

Here's a much better lifestyle choice: I might forget my phone due to forgetfulness or choice, but I ALWAYS have my keys and wallet.

Seriously.

So you go back to your normal wallet/credit card. it is just another way of paying for things.

Yeah, let me know when it arrives at all the stores I shop at. I'm a realist, it needs to be in the store before I care about it in my pocket.ll.

Look above I listed a fair number of places that use them.

Best Buy, Fry's, HEB, Fast food place (all major ones), I have seen them at a Star Bucks, Gas stations. Coke Machines.
Seen them at a few department stores.
Shall I go on.