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MacRumors
May 26, 2011, 12:59 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/26/amazons-new-mac-download-store-takes-on-apples-mac-app-store/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/amazon_mac_download_store.jpg


As noted by The Loop (http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/05/26/amazon-launches-mac-download-store/), Amazon has launched a new download store (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?&docId=1000691231) for Mac OS X applications, going head-to-head against Apple's Mac App Store. While Amazon's download store does not offer the level of system integration featured by Apple's store, it does offer a few big name titles like Microsoft Office that are not available through Apple's Mac App Store.Competing directing with Apple's Mac Store, Amazon says its store has 250 of the biggest software and game titles available for Mac. In fact, they have some titles that Apple's store doesn't.A number of popular video game publishers including EA, Aspyr, and Feral Interactive are also included on Amazon's store.

Amazon's download mechanism appears to offer a basic downloadable installer for each title, forgoing any integrated installation system. Purchases are also stored in users' digital lockers associated with their Amazon accounts, allowing unlimited downloads for personal use.

To celebrate the launch of the Mac download store, Amazon is offering a one-time use coupon good for $5 off of a purchase from the store through June 1st.

Article Link: Amazon's New Mac Download Store Takes On Apple's Mac App Store (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/26/amazons-new-mac-download-store-takes-on-apples-mac-app-store/)



vincenz
May 26, 2011, 01:01 PM
Can't hurt to have more choices as a consumer :)

RonHC
May 26, 2011, 01:02 PM
competition :D

gnasher729
May 26, 2011, 01:08 PM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

Small White Car
May 26, 2011, 01:08 PM
Ok, this is nice and all, but without the tight system integration this is really just "Amazon.com can do software downloads."

That's great, really, but it's not exactly the same thing.

miles01110
May 26, 2011, 01:10 PM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

Well, kind of. If you have your app in the Mac App Store you aren't allowed to sell it anywhere else for a better price to cover the 30% hit Apple takes.

shokunin
May 26, 2011, 01:11 PM
I don't trust amazon.com at all. They deleted one of my accounts, long time customer 10+ years, over 120 orders on the account and they deleted it because I had 4 returns over the past 12 months. They only restored it after much complaining, and the fact that I had gift certificate balance that is illegal to just "wipe" out. With that wipe-out all the past orders, receipts, everything would be gone.

I wouldn't trust them with my serials or receipt of software.

mattwolfmatt
May 26, 2011, 01:11 PM
Lawsuit in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

ArtOfWarfare
May 26, 2011, 01:12 PM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

Who realistically complains about Apple's 30%? They aren't making a profit from that 30%, that's what it cost them to buy the hardware and pay the employees to keep the app store running.

Amazon will face similar hardware and employee requirements, plus they need to make a profit, because, unlike apple, they're not making the computers the apps run on. At best, Amazon will charge the same 30%, but I suspect they'll take a greater cut than that.


Well, kind of. If you have your app in the Mac App Store you aren't allowed to sell it anywhere else.

Really? I hadn't heard of that, and I feel like you must be wrong, because many of the games available on the Mac App Store (IE: Braid and Bejewled,) are also available on Steam for Mac.

dustinsc
May 26, 2011, 01:13 PM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

How would they make money then? Not everything can be a loss leader.

TimUSCA
May 26, 2011, 01:14 PM
Well, kind of. If you have your app in the Mac App Store you aren't allowed to sell it anywhere else.

Not true. They just can't sell it for cheaper.

JangoFett124
May 26, 2011, 01:14 PM
Who realistically complains about Apple's 30%? They aren't making a profit from that 30%, that's what it cost them to buy the hardware and pay the employees to keep the app store running.

I can guarantee you they are making a profit from that 30%. A large profit.

miles01110
May 26, 2011, 01:15 PM
Not true. They just can't sell it for cheaper.

Right; fixed.

FroMann
May 26, 2011, 01:15 PM
I love Amazon, so this is pretty sweet.

chr
May 26, 2011, 01:17 PM
If this is anything like their digital downloads of computer games, it's going to be terribly implemented and full of bugs.

akbarali.ch
May 26, 2011, 01:20 PM
Apple is getting looted left & right, now Amazon.

Bodypainter
May 26, 2011, 01:20 PM
competition will help lowering the prices. this Store is actually VERY good!

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 01:22 PM
Well, kind of. If you have your app in the Mac App Store you aren't allowed to sell it anywhere else for a better price to cover the 30% hit Apple takes.

Wrong. You can sell it in either place.

EDIT: User changed original post.

notjustjay
May 26, 2011, 01:23 PM
I can guarantee you they are making a profit from that 30%. A large profit.

Absolutely. For one, their overhead and labour costs aren't tied in any way to the cost of the application. Whether an app costs $0.99 or $100, Apple pays the same amount to host it on their server, but the higher-priced app nets them much more profit.

Steve always struts out numbers during keynotes like "We're proud to announce that we've paid out over $1 billion to our developers" -- which if you do the math means Apple's cut was over $400 million.

ivantod
May 26, 2011, 01:24 PM
For us in Europe, it should probably be mentioned that this service is, as expected, of course US only.

gwangung
May 26, 2011, 01:25 PM
I can guarantee you they are making a profit from that 30%. A large profit.

They'd be kinda stupid not to; that's the whole point of a business.

(Note that distributors of material good often take a far larger cut, anywhere from 45 to 60 percent. Anybody who thinks 30% is price gouging is ignorant and naive about the nuts and bolts of business).

Intarweb
May 26, 2011, 01:25 PM
Who realistically complains about Apple's 30%? They aren't making a profit from that 30%, that's what it cost them to buy the hardware and pay the employees to keep the app store running.

Couldn't be anymore wrong.

ericmooreart
May 26, 2011, 01:26 PM
Ok, this is nice and all, but without the tight system integration this is really just "Amazon.com can do software downloads."

That's great, really, but it's not exactly the same thing.

I'm not trashing your post but why do I need system integration? I buy my software, download it, install it with my serial number. Go to its preferences, check for updates, Done.

ArtOfWarfare
May 26, 2011, 01:27 PM
Wrong. You can sell it in either place.

He already changed his post to clarify that they can't sell it anywhere else for cheaper, which sounds like it may be right... And may be illegal... sounds kind if like price fixing to me...

rumz
May 26, 2011, 01:28 PM
Somehow I don't see this as going "head to head" with Apple's App Store much more than them selling physical copies of Mac software. It seems more like an in-between solution.

Dr McKay
May 26, 2011, 01:28 PM
Can't hurt to have more choices as a consumer :)

But all choice is confusing ;)

iCrizzo
May 26, 2011, 01:28 PM
Its great that we now have some places to find unheard of software. The only thing that would really keep me buying from the Mac App Store exclusively is the auto-update feature, but if I can save $20 or so.. or get some freebies from Amazon.. I could live without it as I have for the last 10 years.

GFLPraxis
May 26, 2011, 01:28 PM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

Adobe. Microsoft. Anyone big enough that they don't care about the free marketing the app store gives them (or don't consider it worth 30% of their product because they're known enough and their product is very expensive).

GFLPraxis
May 26, 2011, 01:30 PM
I can guarantee you they are making a profit from that 30%. A large profit.

I've seen some theorization that Apple charges 30% partially to offset the cost of all the free apps (which still cost Apple money to distribute).

However, I don't think developers distributing paid apps would like the fact that they're subsidizing free apps in that case.

rmwebs
May 26, 2011, 01:32 PM
For us in Europe, it should probably be mentioned that this service is, as expected, of course US only.

Typical...I really dislike big American (sorry, USA not American :cool:) corporations. If it wasnt for us brits, the iPad would either be a brick with a fan, or not exist ;) You can thank Acorn computers, a little known British computer builder for your iPads and iPhones! :p

Hopefully Amazon will hurry up and roll this out globally!

ten-oak-druid
May 26, 2011, 01:32 PM
I hope that eventually Apple and Amazon will find a happy working relationship. Not that it is all bad now but I would like to see some synergy between the two. I think that Apple will benefit in the long run if their customers look to amazon for software and media in addition to Apple.

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 01:32 PM
I urge you not to do business with Amazon for several reasons:

1) I used to buy books from them. I have bought books for the kindle and books for their previous DRM system. As of today, I can read none of the books I bought from them electronically over the past 7 years. None of this is my fault, either. They simply stopped supporting their previous DRM system, and nobody in their support group has a clue about it... and they somehow just "lost" my kindle account (and all of the rest of my amazon.com accounts.) They acknowledge they destroyed my accounts and promised to send me a coupon to repurchase my kindle books, but didn't do so. Every time I contact them, I have to talk to a half dozen people and deal with a half dozen non-sense responses only to get this promis again, and of course, never get my coupon. (fortunately, this only amounts to a couple books. after seeing how the sausage was made I stopped being an amazon customer.)

2) They do not treat their employees well. They have managers who are abusive, they engage in age discrimination, they get Indians and other foreign nationals over here promising them one deal and then fail to live up to the promise, but the VISA is such that the employee can not go to another business, lest they risk being deported, which is essentially a form of partial slavery (eg: they are still paid, but not paid what they were promised.)

If you've spent any time in the seattle tech scene, you've heard stories from ex-amazon employees about how horrible the place is to work for. I worked there and at microsoft and at a bunch of other companies over the years. MSFT was poorly organized and run, but their problems were all incompetance. All the other companies in Seattle I worked for varied in the quality of management but they were all on the up-and-up. The northwest has a culture of ... doing right by people. Of course, Amazon is founded by a yankee. The amazon culture is based on stabbing others in the back. Of all the companies I've worked for, every one of them, and all the people I worked for at them are people I'd work with or for again. This includes my peers at amazon, but amazon management and amazon the company I'd never work for ever again-- WORST JOB EVER. In fact, until I worked for Amazon, I'd never had a really bad job experience.... so even having been warned I went to work there because I couldn't believe it would be that bad.

Now I know, people are going to chime in and say I'm disgruntled or whatever. (Why is it people are sympathetic to abuse victims except when the abuser is in the workplace?) I got a settlement from amazon and while it doesn't come close to making me whole, it shows that they, in fact, know they were in the wrong.... yet it is cheaper to settle than to start treating employees decently (I guess they think.)

Anyway, frack amazon. They are scum and don't deserve your money. They are good at PR and have everyone convinced that they give a damn, but it isn't true. (In fact ,if you look for complaints from amazon employees on the web you'll find lots of people talking about how they were abused in various ways.)

PS- if anyone thinks this is actionable, bring it on. The truth is an affirmative defense against accusations of defamation. I'd love to have a day in court, and the consequent opportunity to tell my story to the press, in excruciating detail. I'll be sure to focus on the felonies I saw committed while I was there too.

ciTiger
May 26, 2011, 01:32 PM
I love competition! Bring it on!

DavidLeblond
May 26, 2011, 01:33 PM
Its great that we now have some places to find unheard of software. The only thing that would really keep me buying from the Mac App Store exclusively is the auto-update feature, but if I can save $20 or so.. or get some freebies from Amazon.. I could live without it as I have for the last 10 years.

The "auto update" feature of the Mac App Store is the thing I hate the most about it. The fact that you have to open the App Store program in order to check for updates is a step backwards.

res1233
May 26, 2011, 01:34 PM
How exactly does this compete with the MAS? There have been online stores for downloads for ages. Is there a "store app" to download or something? Otherwise this seems like a nonsense article. The entire point if the MAS is that it's an app on your computer that gives you easy access to apps. The whole web browser thing is old news.

Moccasin
May 26, 2011, 01:38 PM
not available in the UK I note - well not in GB£ anyway

Thunderhawks
May 26, 2011, 01:39 PM
I can guarantee you they are making a profit from that 30%. A large profit.

People hung up on profit margins need to realize that the purpose of a business is to make money. How much is not OUR decision.

Just don't buy a product if you don't see its value.

Here is an example of what goes on within the highly overpriced department stores:

Perfume
$ 100.00 Retail
$ 60.00 Wholesale to department store
-----------
$ 40.00 Department stores gros margin.

They have rent, personnel, advertising and and and

Manufacturers side:
Cost of goods, factory and office overhead, commision to sales person, national advertising, testers, samples, co-op advertising local market, push money (goes to sales girls) gifts with purchase, anticipated costs of returns and the line goes on and on.

Anybody who sees a number claimed to be a distributors "cut or "profit" needs to get off their couch and check out how businesses work.

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 01:40 PM
However, I don't think developers distributing paid apps would like the fact that they're subsidizing free apps in that case.

I make my living making Apps that I sell exclusively thru the appstore. Apple takes their cut and I don't have a beef with the %30. In fact, I havent' ever seen any significant complaints from developers about this. It seems only freetard types get all upset about it.

The reality is, before Apple, it cost a whole lot more and you got a much smaller cut of revenue to sell into the mobile market-- if you even could get them to allow you to, which was hard to do if you weren't already a big company.

Apple delivers more than enough value to cover their %30, and I've not lost a minute's sleep over it. People who are developing their own content as a real business, know the value that apple provides and are happy to pay it.

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 01:42 PM
Also, remember, Apple only takes %30 and pays well and regularly.

Amazon? For their android stor they take up to %70, AND they get to dictate what price the app sells for. You want to sell it for $9.99 but Amazon wants to run a special to bring in new customers? They get to have a sale on your app, and you get paid only $0.70! That's a whole lot worse than the guaranteed %70 apple pays you.

This is the case for Android apps and kindle books. I've not looked at the terms for their mac store, but I bet they are the same.

mdriftmeyer
May 26, 2011, 01:44 PM
I can guarantee you they are making a profit from that 30%. A large profit.

No. They are not. They are paying large fees for distribution to Akamai and others.

res1233
May 26, 2011, 01:45 PM
The "auto update" feature of the Mac App Store is the thing I hate the most about it. The fact that you have to open the App Store program in order to check for updates is a step backwards.

Incorrect. Previously there was no central place to check for app updates, so it's a step forwards. However, I do believe that one of the first changes they'll make to the store is a background update checker. Perhaps it'll be a part of Lion.

Mattstkc
May 26, 2011, 01:46 PM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

Amazon will take their cut, don't be foolish.

But I'd bet it's cheaper in the Mac App Store than Amazon due to the direct integration as an OS Application makes for easier browsing and sales

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 01:47 PM
I'm not trashing your post but why do I need system integration? I buy my software, download it, install it with my serial number. Go to its preferences, check for updates, Done.

Because it becomes a major PITA to keep your software running from machine to machine, and from OS to OS.

You never get updates.

you have to remember the serial number.

and in a few years when amazon abandons this business (which odds are they will*) you're SOL.

* Amazon loves to announce things like this. They do it all the time, anything that is "hot" they get into. They dabble for a few years, put out a half assed product, and if it doesn't take off immediately, they reassign the team to soemthing else. Then the service just goes stale and becomes inceasingly non-functional until they shut it down. Amazon has started a search engine- several times, used to provide magazines, catalogs, menus, movie times, maps to compete with google maps, etc. etc.

Every time Jeff Bezos has a fever dream they jump into a new market. Some of them work and they stick around, like AWS (which, by the way, never ran on amazon infrastructure, contrary to the lies they told when they launched it) ... but the ones that don't just get abandoned when Jeff goes on to some other new hot thing.

Apple is careful to introduce new products, and they tend to do so in a way that they can support for a very long time.

Virtualball
May 26, 2011, 01:48 PM
Who realistically complains about Apple's 30%? They aren't making a profit from that 30%, that's what it cost them to buy the hardware and pay the employees to keep the app store running.

Amazon will face similar hardware and employee requirements, plus they need to make a profit, because, unlike apple, they're not making the computers the apps run on. At best, Amazon will charge the same 30%, but I suspect they'll take a greater cut than that.




Really? I hadn't heard of that, and I feel like you must be wrong, because many of the games available on the Mac App Store (IE: Braid and Bejewled,) are also available on Steam for Mac.

Umm, you do know that Apple uses Amazon's servers, right? Amazon has some of the most reliable servers on the planet..

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 01:49 PM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

Typically, Amazon TAKES %70 as their Cut.

PS: using the phrase "apple tax" invokes my prejudice that causes me to assume you know nothing.. it reminds me of the people who think macs are overpriced and who think %30 is a large cut.

econgeek
May 26, 2011, 01:51 PM
Umm, you do know that Apple uses Amazon's servers, right? Amazon has some of the most reliable servers on the planet..

I think you're confusing Akamai.

Amazon does NOT have "most reliable servers." Amazon's systems are completely half assed. I know this because I have watched the store go down... regularly. Everyone in the company knows when it happens and it happens more often than you think. Something like once every other day, and more often than not, a major part of the store is down or at reduced functionality for hours at a time.

Further, I guess you didn't hear about the major outage of AWS that took out most of the silicon valley startups a few weeks back.... took days to get back on line, and some of those businesses never recovered.

The outage was purely due to incompetent design on Amazon's part, in fact.

nagromme
May 26, 2011, 01:52 PM
Between the App Store, Steam, MacGameStore and now Amazon, I’m really liking my options as a Mac gamer! Of the above, the Mac App Store certainly works the best, but having options is good. More selection, more price-shopping, more competition.

Much the same way I prefer to buy music from iTunes (MP4 format) than from Amazon (MP3 format), but if Amazon has a great deal, or an album Apple doesn’t, I’ll gladly buy from Amazon too.

Žalgiris
May 26, 2011, 01:55 PM
Lawsuit in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

Oh shut up, mr lawsuit.

Full of Win
May 26, 2011, 01:56 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'll bet that Amazon does not impose thugery about the code base like Apple does.

NAG
May 26, 2011, 01:58 PM
Between the App Store, Steam, MacGameStore and now Amazon, I’m really liking my options as a Mac gamer! Of the above, the Mac App Store certainly works the best, but having options is good. More selection, more price-shopping, more competition.

Much the same way I prefer to buy music from iTunes (MP4 format) than from Amazon (MP3 format), but if Amazon has a great deal, or an album Apple doesn’t, I’ll gladly buy from Amazon too.

Steam is still the best of the bunch. The App Store is okay with the occasional sales. I feel kind of sorry for the MacGameStore. And the Amazon store makes the Mac App Store look amazing in comparison. I really hope Amazon is going to do more than this. I know, how can I pass up on the amazing price reductions from $49.99 to the ridiculously low $49.99 that Amazon advertises. But I shall.

spazzcat
May 26, 2011, 01:59 PM
I think you're confusing Akamai.

Amazon does NOT have "most reliable servers." Amazon's systems are completely half assed. I know this because I have watched the store go down... regularly. Everyone in the company knows when it happens and it happens more often than you think. Something like once every other day, and more often than not, a major part of the store is down or at reduced functionality for hours at a time.

Further, I guess you didn't hear about the major outage of AWS that took out most of the silicon valley startups a few weeks back.... took days to get back on line, and some of those businesses never recovered.

The outage was purely due to incompetent design on Amazon's part, in fact.

Any one that uses reddit knows how much Amazon servers suck...

Daveoc64
May 26, 2011, 02:02 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'll bet that Amazon does not impose thugery about the code base like Apple does.

... and that is probably the reason that Amazon has got publishers like Microsoft on board.

Diode
May 26, 2011, 02:02 PM
Absolutely. For one, their overhead and labour costs aren't tied in any way to the cost of the application. Whether an app costs $0.99 or $100, Apple pays the same amount to host it on their server, but the higher-priced app nets them much more profit.

Steve always struts out numbers during keynotes like "We're proud to announce that we've paid out over $1 billion to our developers" -- which if you do the math means Apple's cut was over $400 million.

Well you have to remember a lot of the free apps are freeloading on Apple's system. Someone has to pay for it. And apple is barely making a profit on the 99 cent apps. You have to remember about credit card fees. Even with a large volume, they are still probably paying 10~15 cents a transaction + 1~1.5%.

HMFIC03
May 26, 2011, 02:11 PM
Awesome! Very cool to see they are selling Office at a marked down price - even cooler is they have the family editions. :D

Yamcha
May 26, 2011, 02:15 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lawsuit, lately it's been Apple's thing :P..

scottsjack
May 26, 2011, 02:18 PM
Amazon has always worked well for me downloading MP3s (a few years ago) and for CD/DVD/Hardware purchases.

But really it doesn't matter if Amazon generally sucks or not. The important thing is competition. Bad competition is way, way better than no competition at all.

unlinked
May 26, 2011, 02:21 PM
Well you have to remember a lot of the free apps are freeloading on Apple's system. Someone has to pay for it. And apple is barely making a profit on the 99 cent apps. You have to remember about credit card fees. Even with a large volume, they are still probably paying 10~15 cents a transaction + 1~1.5%.


Apple is freeloading on free apps not the other way around. If every free app in the app store disappeared tonight then tomorrow Apple would have a less desirable product to sell.

ericmooreart
May 26, 2011, 02:22 PM
Because it becomes a major PITA to keep your software running from machine to machine, and from OS to OS.

You never get updates.

you have to remember the serial number.

and in a few years when amazon abandons this business (which odds are they will*) you're SOL.

Speaking for myself, I've never had a serious problem. An occasional serial search but nothing major. As far as updates most software have an option to check on launch

On the other hand I have gone through hoops of fire when I get a new machine or new os with my itunes license. Never works right until a de authorize all my machines. Makes me have to reload everything to my old school apple tv and other devices. Imagine this with the App Store.

And with Amazon as long as you back everything up (in more then 1 place) It doesn't matter if they drop the store. Your installer isn't dependent on them.

ThaDoggg
May 26, 2011, 02:24 PM
Well I've always loved competition but it will be interesting to see if Amazon can survive. If they only offer limited items it will be hard.

GFLPraxis
May 26, 2011, 02:33 PM
Really? I hadn't heard of that, and I feel like you must be wrong, because many of the games available on the Mac App Store (IE: Braid and Bejewled,) are also available on Steam for Mac.

That's because he's incorrect. If it's on the Mac App Store, you can't sell it anywhere else for a lower price.

rmwebs
May 26, 2011, 02:36 PM
The Mac is going to become fragmented with all these AppStores popping up...

- Steam
- Mac AppStore
- Amazon
















:D:D:D:D:D

slembcke
May 26, 2011, 02:41 PM
To be clear, as a developer who talks to a lot of other developers, not many are upset that Apple takes 30%. You can set up your own webstore easily enough and pay much lower fees for other similar services, but most developers seem to want to avoid doing that.

What they are upset about is the stupid restrictions that Apple has tried to slap on developers, and the subscription crap they are trying to push.

Fortunately they finally gave up on trying to enforce their ridiculous language war with Flash. By trying to keep Flash developed apps off the iPhone, they were basically saying that you had to develop your apps in a small subset of languages none of which developed in the LAST TWO DECADES. 95% of the code that I write doesn't need down to the metal performance. Instead I'd like to use something that saves me time (and money). They still forbid developers from using JIT compilation though (or trampoline functions for that matter).

They also put other stupid restrictions on you too. You software has to be completely clear of references to other platforms or modes of availability. You can't even mention that your program also runs under Windows or Android. Also, say that you have a screen recording program with an optional kernel extension for recording system audio. You can't offer the sound recording to MAS customers. In fact you can't even mention that the functionality is available if you get the non-MAS version.

With iOS, the app store is the only way that you can get software onto your iOS device. Beyond that, you are basically at Apple's mercy if your software does well. They've completely broken all the traditional ways that you can promote your software and you are at the mercy of their promotions and top 100 lists. The app store model also drives prices down to levels that make it completely uneconomical to try and advertise outside. Because everybody just looks at the app store anyway, it's largely pointless anyway. Browsing the app store is just painful. Have you ever tried? The subcategories are practically hidden and once you get to them all you see is an icon and a name anyway.

Lastly, their subscription fees are downright stupid. Sure, their appstores give you a bunch of stuff for that 30%, but the subscription fees give you absolutely nothing. They take 30% of your content profits so that you can provide all of your own servers and do all of your own communication. You can't even get any demographics on who is subscribing to you.

Consultant
May 26, 2011, 02:42 PM
Apple is getting looted left & right, now Amazon.

WRONG. Apple already dominated Amazon in music sales.

Amazon is just playing catch up.


Adobe. Microsoft. Anyone big enough that they don't care about the free marketing the app store gives them (or don't consider it worth 30% of their product because they're known enough and their product is very expensive).

So Amazon isn't taking a cut?

Microsoft Office for Mac Home & Business 2011

Microsoft.com: $280
Amazon.com: $203

Amazon price is 28% off MSRP. Is Amazon not making any money?

How much is credit card fee? Close to 2%?

Perhaps Amazon is taking 30% cut.

Žalgiris
May 26, 2011, 02:46 PM
The Mac is going to become fragmented with all these AppStores popping up...

- Steam
- Mac AppStore
- Amazon
















:D:D:D:D:D

No more than a year ago without any app stores.

munchies
May 26, 2011, 02:47 PM
I must say, the prices are pretty good, plus they have $5 off any purchase. The code is SAVE5MAC.

Picked up COD 2 for $24, no tax. Bye bye, free time :D

Amazon.com: Software: Mac App Store (****************0YuAT)

:apple:

maflynn
May 26, 2011, 02:53 PM
I snagged office for 110, I can't pass that up, I've been wanting the latest version for a while and so much money off the family pack makes its a no brainer.

MS sells this direct for about 150 so I'm saving 40 bucks.

Mac-Rumours
May 26, 2011, 02:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8C148)

The "auto update" feature of the Mac App Store is the thing I hate the most about it. The fact that you have to open the App Store program in order to check for updates is a step backwards.

Incorrect. Previously there was no central place to check for app updates, so it's a step forwards. However, I do believe that one of the first changes they'll make to the store is a background update checker. Perhaps it'll be a part of Lion.

How is he incorrect because you think differently? Facts are correct/incorrect, not opinions!

hexor
May 26, 2011, 03:00 PM
Am I missing something? Does Amazon have an app store for windows? If not wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have one for windows (which MS doesn't yet have) instead of Mac OS X which already has a store built-in to the OS???

rjohnstone
May 26, 2011, 03:04 PM
Am I missing something? Does Amazon have an app store for windows? If not wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have one for windows (which MS doesn't yet have) instead of Mac OS X which already has a store built-in to the OS???
They already sell PC software via direct download.
They just added Mac software to the list of downloadable choices.

Oletros
May 26, 2011, 03:05 PM
Also, remember, Apple only takes %30 and pays well and regularly.

Amazon? For their android stor they take up to %70, AND they get to dictate what price the app sells for. You want to sell it for $9.99 but Amazon wants to run a special to bring in new customers? They get to have a sale on your app, and you get paid only $0.70! That's a whole lot worse than the guaranteed %70 apple pays you.

This is the case for Android apps and kindle books. I've not looked at the terms for their mac store, but I bet they are the same.

You can't be real. No normal person can have so much hatred and lie so much about non Apple companies.

macsmurf
May 26, 2011, 03:11 PM
Lastly, their subscription fees are downright stupid. Sure, their appstores give you a bunch of stuff for that 30%, but the subscription fees give you absolutely nothing. They take 30% of your content profits so that you can provide all of your own servers and do all of your own communication. You can't even get any demographics on who is subscribing to you.

I don't get the subscription fee either. I wouldn't mind doing a couple of small apps for my own benefit, at least at first, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay Apple $100 a year for the privilege. Having to program in Obj-C should be a high enough price in itself. Come to think of it, they should be paying me :D

I think Apple are missing out on a lot of potential developers down the line because of the subscription fee.

MacPhyle
May 26, 2011, 03:17 PM
Unless Amazon can very quickly and very hugely improve the selection, Apple will have absolutely nothing to worry about. The selection Amazon has at the moment is what I can find at the local Office Depot, which has a selection of Mac software that's just pathetic.

kRobbin
May 26, 2011, 03:20 PM
I love Apple but I'm glad to see some competition. It just doesn't seem right to allow one company to sell all add-ons to their products. Imagine if you had to buy tires from GM just because you bought one of their cars.

This will also put a bit of pressure on Apple to innovate as they certainly are capable. Right now it's almost impossible to get refunded for app store purchases, that isn't right. They should make it possible but dissuade abusers.

my 2 cents...

spacepower7
May 26, 2011, 03:24 PM
You can't be real. No normal person can have so much hatred and lie so much about non Apple companies.

Obviously you haven't read any of the independent developers/writers stories about how Amazon decides the pricing. If Amazon wants to sell your $10 android app for $1, you're only getting $0.70 per sale, unless you have something huge like Angry Birds.

skellener
May 26, 2011, 03:29 PM
The more Amazon (and others) compete with Apple - the better! Good for Amazon taking on Apple. Don't get me wrong, I love Apple products, but competition will keep Apple on it's toes.

spillproof
May 26, 2011, 03:32 PM
Your turn Google.

baryon
May 26, 2011, 03:35 PM
I can't find anything on there, it's really badly designed! I click on Downloads and I get all kinds of software for Windows, and then I click on Mac Download and it takes me to their promotion page. Type in Angry Birds and you get... plush toys...

ChazUK
May 26, 2011, 03:48 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Blade Build/FRG83) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

I'll give it a whirl when it's available to us bad toothed Brits.

eye
May 26, 2011, 03:53 PM
Good job Amazon. I like that Amazon keeps putting heat on Apple and others. More heat equals more reason to keep getting better.

Xe89
May 26, 2011, 03:56 PM
I'll just download from the developer's own site and save the serials in 1Password. It has a very good system of keeping track of your bought software.

And 9 out of 10 Mac applications is using a thing called Sparkle for auto-updating anyway (without the need to launch another app). So I dont see the real benefit of the update mechanism the App store is using.

gnasher729
May 26, 2011, 03:58 PM
Typically, Amazon TAKES %70 as their Cut.

PS: using the phrase "apple tax" invokes my prejudice that causes me to assume you know nothing.. it reminds me of the people who think macs are overpriced and who think %30 is a large cut.

I thought sarcasm should be detected by just reading a post. Ok, next time I'll write sarcasm in bold characters.

gnasher729
May 26, 2011, 04:05 PM
Umm, you do know that Apple uses Amazon's servers, right? Amazon has some of the most reliable servers on the planet..

Google for "Amazon servers crash". Amazon cost some customers real money.

Gasu E.
May 26, 2011, 04:07 PM
Well, kind of. If you have your app in the Mac App Store you aren't allowed to sell it anywhere else for a better price to cover the 30% hit Apple takes.

Not sure what you mean by "better" price. If you mean "lower" price, that's better for the buyer, but worse for the seller, so I'm not sure how that would "cover" the Apple "hit."

As far as 30% being a "hit", that's a pretty fair deal for a sales channel; quite modest, in fact, for software, where margins are high, and dealers get a pretty big cut.

If you're saying the app creator could sell it somewhere else at a lower price with less of a channel cut, it's not going to be at a major site like Amazon. Now, it's true the app creator sould sell it on their own site and not pay any cut to the channel; however, this would set up the app creator as a competitor to their own sales channel. This is called "channel conflict" and really tends to piss off people in the sales channel; if you do this you may find no sales or distributor will touch your product or company.

bommai
May 26, 2011, 04:07 PM
I don't trust amazon.com at all. They deleted one of my accounts, long time customer 10+ years, over 120 orders on the account and they deleted it because I had 4 returns over the past 12 months. They only restored it after much complaining, and the fact that I had gift certificate balance that is illegal to just "wipe" out. With that wipe-out all the past orders, receipts, everything would be gone.

I wouldn't trust them with my serials or receipt of software.

Never heard of this. I have way more than 4 returns in 12 months but I also bought a bunch of things. I have never had problems.

rjohnstone
May 26, 2011, 04:09 PM
I can't find anything on there, it's really badly designed! I click on Downloads and I get all kinds of software for Windows, and then I click on Mac Download and it takes me to their promotion page. Type in Angry Birds and you get... plush toys...
Here... not so hard.

http://www.amazon.com/Macintosh-Software/b/ref=sv_sw_2?ie=UTF8&node=229643

They even sell iWork and iLife cheaper than Apple does.

slu
May 26, 2011, 04:14 PM
You can't be real. No normal person can have so much hatred and lie so much about non Apple companies.

Yeah. And he is not disgruntled. :D

southernpaws
May 26, 2011, 04:28 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

For us in Europe, it should probably be mentioned that this service is, as expected, of course US only.

Typical...I really dislike big American (sorry, USA not American :cool:) corporations. If it wasnt for us brits, the iPad would either be a brick with a fan, or not exist ;) You can thank Acorn computers, a little known British computer builder for your iPads and iPhones! :p

Hopefully Amazon will hurry up and roll this out globally!



You mean acorn, the company that was dissolved, survived by subsidiary that partnered with apple to become ARM?

There's a reason few have heard of it. Big companies may be distasteful, but the alternative is pretty regressive. You always have the choice to not support them with your money.

And seriously. Nationalism is ugly regardless of whether it comes from an American or a Brit, so the only dfference between you and the Americans you hate is geography

xxBURT0Nxx
May 26, 2011, 05:07 PM
Let's see how long it takes apple to stop the use of other "mac app stores" haha most likely will be broken in Lion.

rjohnstone
May 26, 2011, 05:20 PM
Let's see how long it takes apple to stop the use of other "mac app stores" haha most likely will be broken in Lion.
The only way Apple can do that is to make OS X only install apps with a digital signature from the Mac App Store.
Basically turn it into iOS.

That would pretty much put Lion in the trash heap for anyone with half a brain.
No one in their right mind would want to intentionally lock themselves out the ability to install apps form other sources.

mtbgtr
May 26, 2011, 05:28 PM
Considering at the present time Amazon has about 217 mac apps with approx 200 of them tutorials/training apps I don't think Apple has to worry anytime soon about competition. I do like how MacBurn is in the Amazon store classified as a Windows app!

the vj
May 26, 2011, 05:38 PM
... I see another suit.

jonnysods
May 26, 2011, 05:43 PM
Wait until Lodsys hears about this. They invented the Internet.

AppleMacDudeG4
May 26, 2011, 06:05 PM
While I do purchase items on Amazon.com, I am not planning to buy any Mac software from Amazon.com unless they get some sort of exclusive that I could not get somewhere else.

I like the Apple App Store since I can install it on my other machines without any real problems. I am not sure if Amazon.com is going to allow for a similar process.

blow45
May 26, 2011, 06:22 PM
arn (now arnold kim), and the other guy:

come on this an out and out amazon shill, how much are they giving you?

i mean, we can tell, don't you know?:rolleyes:

the apple community brought you here, so start thinking and watch out where that pocket money is coming cause it might bite you on your behind.

Macopotamus
May 26, 2011, 06:27 PM
price pressure is good for us, bad for indie developers

rdowns
May 26, 2011, 06:36 PM
I urge you not to do business with Amazon for several reasons:


So you've had a lot of jobs. Who would have thought that?

mingoglia
May 26, 2011, 06:41 PM
Who realistically complains about Apple's 30%? They aren't making a profit from that 30%, that's what it cost them to buy the hardware and pay the employees to keep the app store running.

Amazon will face similar hardware and employee requirements, plus they need to make a profit, because, unlike apple, they're not making the computers the apps run on. At best, Amazon will charge the same 30%, but I suspect they'll take a greater cut than that.




Really? I hadn't heard of that, and I feel like you must be wrong, because many of the games available on the Mac App Store (IE: Braid and Bejewled,) are also available on Steam for Mac.

If you think it takes 30% of the profit of apps to pay for the overhead of the appstore and that Apple isn't making a healthy profit you're either in denial or you're drinking the Kool Aid.

sammyjojo
May 26, 2011, 07:02 PM
After reading some of their FAQ, there are something's that are not as good as the App Store.

Can I download and install to multiple computers?
For video games: Each game manufacturer has a different policy on how many installations are allowed with each product key. If you run out of installations for the product key you originally purchased from Amazon, please contact Customer Service and we will happily provide you with another key at no additional charge. You can install an unlimited number of times for personal use, however additional copies of the game for friends or family must be purchased separately.

For software:Each software manufacturer has a different policy on how many installations are allowed. The user licensing agreement that comes with the software you purchased tells you how many installations and users you are allowed with your purchase.

So basically there is a different policy for every piece of software rather then the unified approach on the App Store.

How do I get patches and updates for my game or software?
Some games and software will automatically look for patches and updates for you. For other products which do not automatically update, you may need to find updates and patches directly on the product manufacturer's website.

No unified patching system.

What if I have computer problems and need to reinstall my game or software?
Go to Your Games and Software Library at www.amazon.com/YourGamesAndSoftware and download the game or software again.

We recommend you create your own backup copy of the install file(s), if permitted by the applicable game or software publisher. You should read any license agreement included in your specific game or software application to understand any restrictions the game or software publisher may impose on this backup copy.

Why are they recommending to make your own backups of software if there is unlimited downloading. Even then no universal policy on the backups, they depend on each publisher.

chrono1081
May 26, 2011, 07:12 PM
ZOMG! Competition is good for us! I'm so original I came up with that! Yay I love competition! <3<3<3 I'm soooo original for saying this! Yay! /sarcasm

Sometimes competition can be good but geeze people, come up with something worthy to post.

altoburgo
May 26, 2011, 07:34 PM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lltw74xhus1qkosiko1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1306542794&Signature=OzfGlMqCsk3a3MeYGp2hQhp6woE%3D

Looks like at least the "game" part of the store is US only...

dscuber9000
May 26, 2011, 08:16 PM
How does this handle updates?

28monkeys
May 26, 2011, 08:24 PM
Amazon has to do something or it will end up like Yahoo!

BaldiMac
May 26, 2011, 08:47 PM
If you think it takes 30% of the profit of apps to pay for the overhead of the appstore and that Apple isn't making a healthy profit you're either in denial or you're drinking the Kool Aid.

Why don't you try and run the numbers yourself? This really just depends on what you consider a healthy profit. The App Store is currently a negligible percentage of Apple's profits.

Just for a round number, let's say they paid out $1 billion in 2010. That means Apple's share of the revenue was about $425 million. That's about 0.7% of their annual revenue. Even if you were to assume that every penny was profit, you are only talking about 3% of their annual profits. But of course, Apple actually does have expenses including transaction fees, marketing, and overhead, and more.

Say Apple has a great deal with credit card companies and only pays 2%. That's $28.5 million. Is it really that hard to imagine that Apple put $400 million into the App Store last year?

maclaptop
May 26, 2011, 08:56 PM
I'll happily give some of my money to Amazon, they have good karma.

The absence of angry "Sue Everyone" mentality from Amazon is refreshing. :)

hexor
May 26, 2011, 08:56 PM
The only way Apple can do that is to make OS X only install apps with a digital signature from the Mac App Store.
Basically turn it into iOS.

That would pretty much put Lion in the trash heap for anyone with half a brain.
No one in their right mind would want to intentionally lock themselves out the ability to install apps form other sources.

One approach I thought of would be to have a "secure" side of OS X that only digitally signed apps from the App store can run in and the other side would be a sand boxed system that you can install whatever you want. The "secure" side would include all the system software, Mail, Safari, etc..

xxBURT0Nxx
May 26, 2011, 08:59 PM
I'll happily give some of my money to Amazon, they have good karma.

The absence of angry "Sue Everyone" mentality from Amazon is refreshing. :)
amazon doesn't really have patents that they need to protect. Part of having patents is protecting your IP's.

Danksi
May 26, 2011, 09:07 PM
USA only, but that's to be expected - it'll gradually go international I'm sure.

Seems the Call of Duty 4 box ($25) is 1/2 the cost of the download version ($50).

BaldiMac
May 26, 2011, 09:15 PM
I'll happily give some of my money to Amazon, they have good karma.

The absence of angry "Sue Everyone" mentality from Amazon is refreshing. :)

Evidently, you just don't visit amazonrumors.com. Amazon appears to me to file more lawsuits than Apple. It just seems like Apple is sue happy because they are sued so often. They are the most sued company in tech the last 3 years or so.

wackymacky
May 26, 2011, 09:16 PM
For us in Europe, it should probably be mentioned that this service is, as expected, of course US only.

Works in New Zealand, and the prices for some things are cheaper than from Apple (I guess on the basis they both calculate exchanges rates!)

AppleScruff1
May 26, 2011, 10:22 PM
ZOMG! Competition is good for us! I'm so original I came up with that! Yay I love competition! <3<3<3 I'm soooo original for saying this! Yay! /sarcasm

Sometimes competition can be good but geeze people, come up with something worthy to post.

Like this?

NAG
May 26, 2011, 10:59 PM
Like this?

OMG! You started a recursive loop of unoriginality! You fool! You doomed us all!

On a more serious note, we need a filter that turns the "competition good" mantra into "cluck cluck cluck cluck" or something more interesting.


amazon doesn't really have patents that they need to protect. Part of having patents is protecting your IP's.

*coughOneClickPurchasingcough*

AppleScruff1
May 26, 2011, 11:13 PM
OMG! You started a recursive loop of unoriginality! You fool! You doomed us all!

On a more serious note, we need a filter that turns the "competition good" mantra into "cluck cluck cluck cluck" or something more interesting.



Now you're making me feel guilty. I ruined the forum. :D

SeattleMoose
May 26, 2011, 11:15 PM
The competition is good and their offerings complement what the Mac App store offers.

A win win for Mac owners.....

Oh...and "cluck cluck cluck...bawhCack!!!"

AppleScruff1
May 26, 2011, 11:32 PM
Competition is bad. I prefer monopolies. In Steve We Trust.

ivantod
May 27, 2011, 12:15 AM
Works in New Zealand, and the prices for some things are cheaper than from Apple (I guess on the basis they both calculate exchanges rates!)

You sure about this? Everything I clicked on has this little note in the product description (you have to scroll down a bit to see it):

"Currently, this item is available only to customers located in the United States and who have a U.S. billing address."

SandynJosh
May 27, 2011, 01:05 AM
I don't get the subscription fee either. I wouldn't mind doing a couple of small apps for my own benefit, at least at first, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay Apple $100 a year for the privilege. Having to program in Obj-C should be a high enough price in itself. Come to think of it, they should be paying me :D

I think Apple are missing out on a lot of potential developers down the line because of the ($100) subscription fee.

I'm sure you are correct, however those potential developers are still dealing with puberty. It's a low bar to jump however it does keep the kiddies out from underfoot.

Peter Maurer
May 27, 2011, 02:14 AM
If it's on the Mac App Store, you can't sell it anywhere else for a lower price.

I think you have it backwards. This stipulation is actually part of the terms for Amazon's new store, which is one of the reasons why most indie Mac developers (including myself) refuse to do business with them — despite having gotten pitched by Amazon repeatedly over the last few months. So don't be surprised by the fact that there's hardly any Mac shareware on Amazon's store.

(Think about it: if you signed terms like these, you couldn't even sell your app as part of a bundle without adjusting the Amazon wholesale price accordingly.)

Now, as for Apple's Mac App Store, which page of Mac_Schedule_2.pdf is this requirement on? I just skimmed that document once more, and I can't find it.

mpmchugh
May 27, 2011, 03:15 AM
Now, as for Apple's Mac App Store, which page of Mac_Schedule_2.pdf is this requirement on? I just skimmed that document once more, and I can't find it.

I think they are confusing this with Apple's in-app publication subscription terms, which I believe prohibits the selling of subscriptions for lesser prices outside of the in-app purchase model.

-mpm

edddeduck
May 27, 2011, 03:46 AM
How does this handle updates?

Because it becomes a major PITA to keep your software running from machine to machine, and from OS to OS.

You never get updates.

you have to remember the serial number.

and in a few years when amazon abandons this business (which odds are they will*) you're SOL.


That's not quite correct :) All Feral games bought from any online store from Amazon to Direct2Drive use the same Feral DRM and updates system (apart from AppStore which uses Apple's system). We do this so no matter where you like to buy your games you always get the same and consistent experience.

This means your purchase (and all updates) will keep working regardless of what happens in the future with the digital store you bought the game from originally.

Our DRM allows you register up to personal 5 machines at any one time and you can deactivate and reactive as many times as you like. The game NEVER "phones home" and you only need to activate online once the first time you play the game. If you buy a DVD version you can just use the DVD in the drive (like a console) instead of registering online if you don't like the idea of online activation, however you can remove the need for the DVD at any time by clicking on activate online button.

Edwin

biallystock
May 27, 2011, 04:15 AM
Who realistically complains about Apple's 30%? They aren't making a profit from that 30%, that's what it cost them to buy the hardware and pay the employees to keep the app store running.

I just love the way how you rabbit on. Like you haven't just made all of this up!

odedia
May 27, 2011, 04:24 AM
I don't trust amazon.com at all. They deleted one of my accounts, long time customer 10+ years, over 120 orders on the account and they deleted it because I had 4 returns over the past 12 months. They only restored it after much complaining, and the fact that I had gift certificate balance that is illegal to just "wipe" out. With that wipe-out all the past orders, receipts, everything would be gone.

I wouldn't trust them with my serials or receipt of software.

I had way more than 4 returns in the past 12 months, including THREE macbook pro exchanges due to problems with the machine. I am a prime member, however, and purchase a ton of stuff from Amazon. So I don't know if that is related. I do love Amazon's amazing service, however, I hope they don't become weird suddenly and cancel my account like they did to you.

MorphingDragon
May 27, 2011, 05:33 AM
Works in New Zealand, and the prices for some things are cheaper than from Apple (I guess on the basis they both calculate exchanges rates!)

Calculate exchange rates? I thought Apple's international pricing algorithm was an abstracted random number generator!

xxBURT0Nxx
May 27, 2011, 07:01 AM
Calculate exchange rates? I thought Apple's international pricing algorithm was an abstracted random number generator!
it is...

Winni
May 27, 2011, 07:46 AM
Apple is getting looted left & right, now Amazon.

Apple did not invent the online store concept - they were not even the first online store that offered downloadable software for Mac OS X.

Winni
May 27, 2011, 07:53 AM
Ok, this is nice and all, but without the tight system integration this is really just "Amazon.com can do software downloads."

That's great, really, but it's not exactly the same thing.

1. The tight integration into the operating system will very soon become a topic of discussion in a court room; this kind of integration should NOT be legal. Ask Microsoft. They always got sued by the competition for the very same reasons, and Microsoft ALWAYS lost. I don't think that iTunes and the Mac AppStore should be allowed to be default parts of Mac OS X. If you download and install them, fine - but the USER should willingly make that decision, it should not be made for him by Apple. It should rather work like the "Choose your web browser" dialog in European versions of Windows 7.

2. The Amazon Store also sells Microsoft products, Apple's own store doesn't. That alone makes the Amazon store more attractive. No matter if you like Microsoft or not -- you won't find many Macs out there without Microsoft products on them. And you cannot buy Office in the Mac AppStore. That's a huge advantage for Amazon.

xxBURT0Nxx
May 27, 2011, 08:03 AM
1. The tight integration into the operating system will very soon become a topic of discussion in a court room; this kind of integration should NOT be legal. Ask Microsoft. They always got sued by the competition for the very same reasons, and Microsoft ALWAYS lost. I don't think that iTunes and the Mac AppStore should be allowed to be default parts of Mac OS X. If you download and install them, fine - but the USER should willingly make that decision, it should not be made for him by Apple. It should rather work like the "Choose your web browser" dialog in European versions of Windows 7.

2. The Amazon Store also sells Microsoft products, Apple's own store doesn't. That alone makes the Amazon store more attractive. No matter if you like Microsoft or not -- you won't find many Macs out there without Microsoft products on them. And you cannot buy Office in the Mac AppStore. That's a huge advantage for Amazon.
Why would they not be able to include iTunes? If that's true MS shouldn't be allowed to use windows media player in their OS. Also, there were no other "mac app stores" up to this point so why would they need a "choose your app store" dialogue?

caspersoong
May 27, 2011, 08:12 AM
Awesome. Now Windows is going to copy.

mark.dillon
May 27, 2011, 08:27 AM
…you won't find many Macs out there without Microsoft products on them.…That's a huge advantage for Amazon.

I respectfully disagree with this part of your statement. We have an office of 8 macs and none of them have software from Microsoft installed. Many people now operate with the idea they don’t need MS Office when there are better alternatives out there.

Bampei
May 27, 2011, 09:21 AM
Have any of you actually LOOKED at Amazon's Mac Software Download Site?

It's pathetic! 80% of the programs are either language or software TRAINING titles. MS Office and Quickbooks are about the only real programs available.
There is not even the slightest hint of coming close to the selection on the Mac App Store from Apple.

I am an Amazon Prime member, and buy a LOT of stuff from Amazon, but I can already see that I won't be using their Mac Download Store much, if at all.

NAG
May 27, 2011, 09:33 AM
1. The tight integration into the operating system will very soon become a topic of discussion in a court room; this kind of integration should NOT be legal. Ask Microsoft. They always got sued by the competition for the very same reasons, and Microsoft ALWAYS lost. I don't think that iTunes and the Mac AppStore should be allowed to be default parts of Mac OS X. If you download and install them, fine - but the USER should willingly make that decision, it should not be made for him by Apple. It should rather work like the "Choose your web browser" dialog in European versions of Windows 7.

I'm not a lawyer but I bought the reason why Microsoft got in trouble was because they were doing nasty tricks like disabling Netscape or using Office as a club to try to beat Apple with for concessions or threatening OEMs with bad licensing terms if they install Netscape or whatnot (which actually sounds more like Google with Android than Apple).

MacAddict1978
May 27, 2011, 11:28 AM
Who realistically complains about Apple's 30%? They aren't making a profit from that 30%, that's what it cost them to buy the hardware and pay the employees to keep the app store running.

I love these kinds of comments that are highly inaccurate. Apple's servers are an asset that house a lot of data, not just apps. It the modern equivalent to warehouse space or distribution centers, and the expense of operations is booked very differently. There is always a cost of doing business. In this case, no employee packing and shipping, no retail theft, etc. At 30% they are making a killing. Their credit card processing fee is probably around 2.5-3%, and an operating cost of 2-5%. Using the highest numbers, that leaves them with a 23% gross margin. The IT staff running the servers is probably a few people compared to hundreds of physical bodies that would be required to staff a distribution center for phsyical product. HUGE difference.

Boxed software gets a company maybe 10-15% if they are lucky, and gross margin doesn't include distribution/shippng costs, paying an hourly employee to stock the item, invenotry of the item on a cycle, theft, etc. At the end, after all costs of doing business are taken into account, they took 3-6% to the bank.

Apple benefits greatly with higher profit margins, and the software vendors are slightly better off too with what they save on packaging, physical media, manuals and inserts, shipping, their own distribution center staff etc.

The only person this model hurts are human beings that someday won't have jobs because of it.

mdelvecchio
May 27, 2011, 11:57 AM
This can only be good for software developers, and as a consequence for Apple's hardware sales. The more software available, the better. And since so so many people complained about the 30% "Apple tax", I bet Amazon will give 100% of the purchase price to the developer. :D

huh? why do you think amazon would buy a product and then sell it for 100% of what they bought it for? thats essentially what theyd be doing if they didnt take any percentage.

mdelvecchio
May 27, 2011, 12:00 PM
Steve always struts out numbers during keynotes like "We're proud to announce that we've paid out over $1 billion to our developers" -- which if you do the math means Apple's cut was over $400 million.

so? we're all in it to make money, not do clown shows for birthday parties.

w/o apple's initiative (the app store), i wouldnt have had ANY opportunity to make a piece of that $1 billion.

mdelvecchio
May 27, 2011, 12:07 PM
I'm not a lawyer but I bought the reason why Microsoft got in trouble was because they were doing nasty tricks like disabling Netscape or using Office as a club to try to beat Apple with for concessions or threatening OEMs with bad licensing terms if they install Netscape or whatnot (which actually sounds more like Google with Android than Apple).

MS got in trouble because they threatened to not sell Windows to computer makers if those makers also included competing products like Netscape. thats why they got into trouble.

rjohnstone
May 27, 2011, 02:41 PM
Awesome. Now Windows is going to copy.
Why?
MS doesn't care where you get software from.
All they care about is you buying their software.
Where you buy it from is moot.

Daveoc64
May 27, 2011, 08:03 PM
Why would they not be able to include iTunes? If that's true MS shouldn't be allowed to use windows media player in their OS. Also, there were no other "mac app stores" up to this point so why would they need a "choose your app store" dialogue?

In the EU they have to offer a version of Windows without Media Player for that reason.

BaldiMac
May 28, 2011, 09:57 AM
I love these kinds of comments that are highly inaccurate. Apple's servers are an asset that house a lot of data, not just apps. It the modern equivalent to warehouse space or distribution centers, and the expense of operations is booked very differently. There is always a cost of doing business. In this case, no employee packing and shipping, no retail theft, etc. At 30% they are making a killing. Their credit card processing fee is probably around 2.5-3%, and an operating cost of 2-5%. Using the highest numbers, that leaves them with a 23% gross margin. The IT staff running the servers is probably a few people compared to hundreds of physical bodies that would be required to staff a distribution center for phsyical product. HUGE difference.

Boxed software gets a company maybe 10-15% if they are lucky, and gross margin doesn't include distribution/shippng costs, paying an hourly employee to stock the item, invenotry of the item on a cycle, theft, etc. At the end, after all costs of doing business are taken into account, they took 3-6% to the bank.

Apple benefits greatly with higher profit margins, and the software vendors are slightly better off too with what they save on packaging, physical media, manuals and inserts, shipping, their own distribution center staff etc.

The only person this model hurts are human beings that someday won't have jobs because of it.

Sources? You can prove anything when you make up numbers yourself!