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MacRumors
May 27, 2011, 12:35 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/27/teenager-targeted-by-apple-in-white-iphone-4-lawsuit-interviewed/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/whiteiphone4now-500x210.jpg

(http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/whiteiphone4now.jpg)
As we reported yesterday (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/26/apple-files-lawsuit-against-teenager-who-sold-white-iphone-4-conversion-kits-settlement-reached/), Apple earlier this week filed a lawsuit against teenager Fei Lam and his parents over Lam's sale of unauthorized white iPhone 4 parts, alleging trademark infringement and dilution. At the time, we noted that Apple had simultaneously filed a voluntary dismissal of the case, suggesting that a settlement may have already been reached.

But in an interview (http://www.fastcompany.com/1755567/apple-white-iphone-fei-lam) with Fast Company, Lam reveals that he knows essentially nothing about the lawsuit, having learned about it only as reports spread through the media yesterday. Lam notes that a settlement has not been reached, but it will obviously be a topic of discussions apparently set to be held between Lam and Apple's lawyers "within the next month".Q: When did you first find out about the lawsuit? Did Apple call or send a letter?
A: I came back from school today and saw your email. Lol.

Q: So have your parents mostly been handling the case then?
A: I told Apple's lawyer that I'm sick and to meet when I get better. That was last week. I'm [sic] been handling the whole thing

Q: So you have not settled?
A: I think that will be decided in the meeting.According to Lam, he no longer has a lawyer representing him in the case, as he is unable to afford one. Consequently, he says that he will be meeting alone with Apple's lawyers at their offices in New York City.

Lam notes that he did not make $130,000 in profits as some reports have claimed, although he declined to specify exactly how much he made from the venture or where those profits have gone. The initial report on his business noted that he had sold $130,000 worth of the parts, but it is unknown how much he had to pay his Chinese supplier for them.

Article Link: Teenager Targeted by Apple in White iPhone 4 Lawsuit Interviewed (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/27/teenager-targeted-by-apple-in-white-iphone-4-lawsuit-interviewed/)



iCrizzo
May 27, 2011, 12:39 PM
Sounds like he was told not to say anything!

FrizzleFryBen
May 27, 2011, 12:41 PM
My cat gives a more informative and interesting interview

Thunderhawks
May 27, 2011, 12:45 PM
Sounds like he was told not to say anything!

Are we sure he is not an analyst?

SchneiderMan
May 27, 2011, 12:45 PM
My cat gives a more informative and interesting interview

Give him a break, he isn't Geohot you know :p

Westyfield2
May 27, 2011, 12:46 PM
"I told Apple's lawyer that I'm sick" ... "I came back from school today"


Right... :confused: :rolleyes:

akm3
May 27, 2011, 12:47 PM
This kid better bring the KY to the meeting.

spiritlevel
May 27, 2011, 12:48 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Quite a good idea going on his own I reckon. A roomful of apple lawyers Vs a a kid... They'll have to tread lightly and tell he's been a very naughty boy.

ravenvii
May 27, 2011, 12:48 PM
No representation, and a teenager to boot?

I don't envy the Apple lawyers facing ethical issues relating to meeting with him.

(marc)
May 27, 2011, 12:48 PM
Ugh, Apple should leave that kid alone. He seems like a cool enough chap.

CFreymarc
May 27, 2011, 12:48 PM
My cat gives a more informative and interesting interview

If he legally obtained the parts and can prove they were disposed of by Foxconn, a salvage claim is in order here. Then Apple can't do anything.

(marc)
May 27, 2011, 12:49 PM
No representation, and a teenager to boot?

I don't envy the Apple lawyers facing ethical issues relating to meeting with him.

Most lawyers don't think about ethics but about profits.

*LTD*
May 27, 2011, 12:52 PM
Ugh, Apple should leave that kid alone. He seems like a cool enough chap.

Absolutely not.

Lessen the punishment a bit, but make an example out of him so crap like tis doesn't spread.

blackpond
May 27, 2011, 12:53 PM
Tip to kid:

Record the meeting.

BC2009
May 27, 2011, 12:53 PM
The fact that Apple filed the lawsuit and then immediately and voluntarily dismissed it probably means that Apple is doing what they have to legally protect their trademarks without opening the door for others, while still going easy on this kid.

Sure the kid did something wrong, but I think this case probably warrants a stern talking to, a threat of really pursuing damages if he does anything like it again, and a request for an apology.

Apple's primary focus here should be protecting their trademarks from infringement by others by going on record as having filed suit. Apple has nothing to gain by seeking monetary damages. However, the kid who did this has something to learn about dealing in obviously stolen parts.

Macman1993
May 27, 2011, 12:54 PM
Really missing page 2 right about now.

inkswamp
May 27, 2011, 01:00 PM
The fact that Apple filed the lawsuit and then immediately and voluntarily dismissed it probably means that Apple is doing what they have to legally protect their trademarks without opening the door for others, while still going easy on this kid.

That and Apple is likely putting pressure on him to give up information about who sold him the parts. I think it's completely naive to think that Apple is going after this kid to make any kind of point. Imagine if you had a $130K+ debt to Apple and they were willing to dismiss it completely if you ratted out your sources. I imagine that's where Apple and their lawyers are going.

toddybody
May 27, 2011, 01:01 PM
Slap his wrist and put some pressure on FOXCON to better control their parts.

The only thing that pissed me off is that he used "LOL"...under the circumstances, I wouldn't.

toddybody
May 27, 2011, 01:04 PM
Tip to kid:

Record the meeting.

Actually, Apple already is...but first MacRumors and Endgaget are going to do a live blog. Next day Apple will let iOS owners download the interrogation.

shootingrubber
May 27, 2011, 01:07 PM
Apple couldn't release the white iPhone 4 when they said they would, and then a teenager figured out a way around it -- and now they are suing him?

What a joke.

Iconoclysm
May 27, 2011, 01:08 PM
Most lawyers don't think about ethics but about profits.

That's absurd. Do you know any lawyers personally?

Tazzy531
May 27, 2011, 01:09 PM
What is this kid thinking going up against corporate lawyers without any representation? Apple lawyers nonetheless.

Take whatever money you made and hire a lawyer.

Heck, find a lawyer that will do this pro bono. What junior associate would not jump at the opportunity to defend someone against Apple's legal? It's a win-win situation for the junior lawyer.

Iconoclysm
May 27, 2011, 01:10 PM
The fact that Apple filed the lawsuit and then immediately and voluntarily dismissed it probably means that Apple is doing what they have to legally protect their trademarks without opening the door for others, while still going easy on this kid.

Sure the kid did something wrong, but I think this case probably warrants a stern talking to, a threat of really pursuing damages if he does anything like it again, and a request for an apology.

Apple's primary focus here should be protecting their trademarks from infringement by others by going on record as having filed suit. Apple has nothing to gain by seeking monetary damages. However, the kid who did this has something to learn about dealing in obviously stolen parts.

My best guess is exactly the same. Apple is not going after money, they obviously didn't "settle" before creating the suit if they haven't even discussed settlement. So it's pretty obvious that they aren't playing hardball with a teenager.

Iconoclysm
May 27, 2011, 01:12 PM
What is this kid thinking going up against corporate lawyers without any representation? Apple lawyers nonetheless.

Take whatever money you made and hire a lawyer.

Heck, find a lawyer that will do this pro bono. What junior associate would not jump at the opportunity to defend someone against Apple's legal? It's a win-win situation for the junior lawyer.

I wouldn't even bother bringing a lawyer, the suit is already withdrawn...there's not much to fear at this point, if you think about it.

PhilLam
May 27, 2011, 01:15 PM
That and Apple is likely putting pressure on him to give up information about who sold him the parts. I think it's completely naive to think that Apple is going after this kid to make any kind of point. Imagine if you had a $130K+ debt to Apple and they were willing to dismiss it completely if you ratted out your sources. I imagine that's where Apple and their lawyers are going.

Hi,

This is Phil. I thought I would try to answer some of the questions you guys might have.

I already surrendered pretty much all the info including sources, email messages, IM chat logs, to all the invoices.

nwcs
May 27, 2011, 01:16 PM
We're not getting the whole story from this kid. He should have kept his mouth shut and avoided any discussion of the case. He is also unwise to not go into the interview with representation. In the end, I hope he gets scared straight. His attitude appears to be that of a punk who thinks he can get away with anything.

Tiger8
May 27, 2011, 01:17 PM
this kid better bring the ky to the meeting.

lmao!!!! :D :D

ucmj22
May 27, 2011, 01:17 PM
Apple couldn't release the white iPhone 4 when they said they would, and then a teenager figured out a way around it -- and now they are suing him?

What a joke.

The product is Apples, and it is up to Apple to decide whether or not to release it, not some snot nosed algebra student. The joke is that people dont think this kid should be held accountable. just because he is a teenager doesn't make the crime any less. if some dumbass teenager breaks in to my house and steals my iMac im not going to tussle his hair and say "eh dont worry about it, you're just a teenager."

dannys1
May 27, 2011, 01:26 PM
Im surprised at how few of you guys here realise how easy it was to get these white iPhone parts. Its complete bull the kid had a "contact at Foxcon" these parts were all over many Chinese internet sellers.

Just search alibaba.com or madeinchina.com and loads of sellers had the white iPhone "conversion kit" about a month or less after the iPhone 4 was released any of us could have bought those bits (I even considered it for my own phone until I realised obviously these were defected bits)

The parts he sold were either unofficially leaked from Foxcon in which case he bought them from one of the Chinese sellers. For those that dont know these Chinese sellers are kind of like middle men the Western world. They make it look like they have large warehouses and factories and loads of staff working for them...in reality its usually one Chinese guy with no stock. When you order they go down the markets or put an order in with their friend at the factories for the items you want.

The white iPhone bits might not even be from Foxconn, once the original iPhone was released and there was a demand for the white colour loads of factories in China would have been knocking them out - where there is a demand the Chinese will meet it, they couldn't care less about copyright and infringement.

You can buy all host of things with Apples logos branded on them, loads of phone cases with "designed in California" on the back and the Apple logo - very ugly cases as well.

At the end of the day this is a pretty black and white case. Those saying "leave the kid alone" are, quite frankly, wrong. There is no moral grey line here and I say that coming from a background where as a kid I did all kinds of stuff to make money.

Infact I had a friend who also breached copyright and trademark infringement and ended up in jail (selling copied games) he saw a gap in the market and supplied the demand.

The thing is its VERY VERY easy to make money when you sell counterfeit anything. All the hard work was done by the original rights holder. Start selling unbranded stuff and you wont make a penny. The risk is there for anyone to try, the kid tried it, made a bit of cash, got caught. Of course he know he shouldn't have done it.

He's wrong, end of, regardless of age (or intellect) I think we all understand basic copyright infringement from a very early age - certainly before you have the ability to build a website, take orders and produce work on demand.

The reason Apple need to make an example here and im surprised no one has made this clear either. If they dont, it sets an easy to copy precedent in which someone more intelligent than this kid could really go to town with counterfeit and fake Apple products and would always be able to cite this case as a get out clause. They need to make sure someone with more money and less morales doesn't go about doing something similar in a cleverer less traceable way (after all every member of this forum could have bought the same white parts from China and done the same thing) - eventually they'd probably lose but if there is one example of comparable punishment out there which is far too light the lawyers can always argue upon it for years to come...a nightmare for Apple (or any company)

Benjamins
May 27, 2011, 01:30 PM
No representation, and a teenager to boot?

I don't envy the Apple lawyers facing ethical issues relating to meeting with him.

I'm chris hansen from dateline NBC... :eek:

xraydoc
May 27, 2011, 01:31 PM
From this sound bite the kid sounds like a dufus.

NewSc2
May 27, 2011, 01:45 PM
Why is everybody bashing on the kid? "Sounds like a dufus/punk."??

I wish I knew how to manage myself like this when facing a huge lawsuit from one of the world's biggest companies (at age 17!!). Heck, I wish I were as enterprising as him back when I was in high school -- he has a bright future.

And going into a meeting like that, as a minor, facing down big attorneys -- I'm pretty sure that's intimidating enough. Not only for the kid, but the lawyers looking across the table and knowing the PR repercussions for going too harsh on a teenager. These attorneys probably have kids his age.

ABernardoJr
May 27, 2011, 01:53 PM
Why is everybody bashing on the kid? "Sounds like a dufus/punk."??

I wish I knew how to manage myself like this when facing a huge lawsuit from one of the world's biggest companies (at age 17!!). Heck, I wish I were as enterprising as him back when I was in high school -- he has a bright future.

And going into a meeting like that, as a minor, facing down big attorneys -- I'm pretty sure that's intimidating enough. Not only for the kid, but the lawyers looking across the table and knowing the PR repercussions for going too harsh on a teenager. These attorneys probably have kids his age.

Tell us you're being sarcastic. You sound just as bad as the teenager that's in trouble right now. And he does sound like a punk.

How is it admirable to "handle" yourself in light of a legal situation that you caused? You're acting like he did something brave or honorable. He did something illegal and is subject to whatever consequences are passed his way. Maybe you two to take some time to learn what accountability means? It's sad that you think him facing the consequences for working illegally correlates to a bright future.

saving107
May 27, 2011, 01:58 PM
Why is everybody bashing on the kid? "Sounds like a dufus/punk."??

And going into a meeting like that, as a minor, facing down big attorneys -- I'm pretty sure that's intimidating enough. Not only for the kid, but the lawyers looking across the table and knowing the PR repercussions for going too harsh on a teenager. These attorneys probably have kids his age.

Yup, he's intimidating and I'm sure that Apple's Lawyers are scared.

http://images.watoday.com.au/2010/11/18/2050373/whitephone1-420x0.jpg

ShiftyPig
May 27, 2011, 02:02 PM
In reality, the whole thing will be settled and I bet that Apple doesn't send him through the ringer (i.e. jail, massive fine). Apple has even filed to dismiss the lawsuit.

Question: "You've been featured on so many prominent technology websites and news sources. Everyone seems really impressed with what you've done at such a young age. You don't want to take advantage of that--put it on your resume?"

What kind of interviewer is that? Moron.

sedarby
May 27, 2011, 02:05 PM
No representation, and a teenager to boot?

I don't envy the Apple lawyers facing ethical issues relating to meeting with him.

The best thing for Apple to do at this point is to delay the meeting until the child can be properly represented. Otherwise, Apple will be seen as the big corporate bully taking on a child. Remember when the RIAA sued a 12 year old for illegal downloading? Yeah, like that.

scoobydoo99
May 27, 2011, 02:15 PM
This kid better bring the KY to the meeting.

I'd say he already used it on Apple when he stole their intellectual property and conspired with his international accomplices to illegally profit at Apple's expense.

He's not a "kid" he's a criminal.

LowKeyed
May 27, 2011, 02:15 PM
Apple couldn't release the white iPhone 4 when they said they would, and then a teenager figured out a way around it -- and now they are suing him?

What a joke.

Do you really think Apple didn't have access to the kits this kid was selling? If that was the case why didn't he just sale straight to Apple.

Did it never cross your mind that maybe Apple wan't satisfied with the quality of those parts and that is why they didn't release them and also why they didn't want this guy to. Maybe Apple doesn't want someone else deciding what meets the "Apple Standard".

But then again, maybe your right and this guy figured out how to fix a manufacturing process problem that completely stumped Apple, who happens to hire some of the best people in the world to fix those problems. If that is the case (which i'm sure stranger things have happened) i would expect to hear that Apple has hired him on for a couple 100K a year.

314631
May 27, 2011, 02:22 PM
I see this thread is developing nicely. I'd hate to think what some of you would write about the young Steve Jobs looking to make his way as an entrepreneur. :D

gnasher729
May 27, 2011, 02:31 PM
Apple couldn't release the white iPhone 4 when they said they would, and then a teenager figured out a way around it -- and now they are suing him?

What a joke.

Oh you are so clever. Apple had plenty of white cases that didn't quite work well enough to be sold without hordes of people complaining. This teenager got hold of these white cases and sold them. Everybody who bought them bought something that in Apple's eyes wasn't in saleable quality.


He's not a "kid" he's a criminal.

He is of course both.

adrian.oconnor
May 27, 2011, 02:32 PM
I see this thread is developing nicely. I'd hate to think what some of you would write about the young Steve Jobs looking to make his way as an entrepreneur. :D

Heh! Exactly what I was thinking. This guy did pretty much exactly the same thing that Jobs and Wozniak did when they were in college, except selling unwanted case parts is probably LESS illegal than selling blue boxes :)

I admire him. He filled a gap in the market and gave some people what they wanted. I really hope his supply was legit (I.e., they weren't stolen and he knew about it), because it's a great story.

I hope he goes on to have a great career. I doubt we'll ever hear from him again, but clearly he's got the vision and the hunger to make things happen.

Tazzy531
May 27, 2011, 02:34 PM
I wouldn't even bother bringing a lawyer, the suit is already withdrawn...there's not much to fear at this point, if you think about it.

The suit is withdrawn, there is no upside in meeting with Apple's corporate counsel.

mack pro
May 27, 2011, 02:41 PM
Absolutely not.

Lessen the punishment a bit, but make an example out of him so crap like tis doesn't spread.

That'll do wonders for Apples image. Apple needs to let this go but they're too much of a bully to do the right thing. They're suing children now which shows what kind of person Steve Jobs really is.... a dbag.

Consultant
May 27, 2011, 02:42 PM
Seems to be BS.

Lawsuits CANNOT be filed without his knowledge, unless he or his parents choose to ignore the legal letters.

coolfactor
May 27, 2011, 03:12 PM
Apple couldn't release the white iPhone 4 when they said they would, and then a teenager figured out a way around it -- and now they are suing him?

What a joke.

That's assuming that the parts that the kid obtained where up to the Apple standard. You're oversimplifying this.

pyro008
May 27, 2011, 03:31 PM
Um, didn't they already voluntarily dismiss it? Why would Apple spend all that money to go after $130k worth of fake white iPhones, especially since its already (finally) officially out? What is the point of making an example out of him? How many would-be smugglers have a contact at places that produce Apple's tech? All they need to do is deal with it on the supply side harshly so their tech doesn't get out in the first place.

ryanwarsaw
May 27, 2011, 03:31 PM
I am sort of surprised the guy seems to have posted in this thread and nobody has asked him anything.

writingdevil
May 27, 2011, 03:45 PM
"...I admire him. He filled a gap in the market and gave some people what they wanted."

let's see how many other people, by giving some people what they wanted we have around, these days: too many to count drug cartels trying their best to get everybody's fav pills to 'em, counseling people on how not to pay income tax because these seminars say they don't have to, underage/anyage sex workers shipped in to satisfy the pent up demand of perverted horny types.
that logic of filling the "gap in the market" is really really stupid logic.
somehow, also, his being a teenager makes him immune to the law? so at what age does the law apply? and below that age anything goes? or who decides what should go? readers of macrumors? his parents? people who bought the stuff? a jury?
im a bit older than he is, but i've had to scrap for things. i don't admire or respect his approach, though it's everyone's personal call. it may be a lot of supporters do the same things, only at a more adult level, so in their opinion, it's not only ok, it's admirable.
i think it's hard to run your venture (and i'm a beginner at being an entrepreneur possibly, from people who comment here) if you don't have integrity. in the short run, you can make a killing, and maybe, like madoff even make it in the long run, but there's always the chance the truth comes out.

PeterQVenkman
May 27, 2011, 03:56 PM
"...I admire him. He filled a gap in the market and gave some people what they wanted."

let's see how many other people, by giving some people what they wanted we have around, these days: too many to count drug cartels trying their best to get everybody's fav pills to 'em, counseling people on how not to pay income tax because these seminars say they don't have to, underage/anyage sex workers shipped in to satisfy the pent up demand of perverted horny types.

that logic of filling the "gap in the market" is really really stupid logic.

Your comparisons to drug cartels and the underage sex slave trade is what I would call stupid logic.

Countdown to Godwin's Law being fulfilled in this thread anytime now...

ucmj22
May 27, 2011, 04:07 PM
Your comparisons to drug cartels and the underage sex slave trade is what I would call stupid logic.

Countdown to Godwin's Law being fulfilled in this thread anytime now...

I bet the nazis would have let him off the hook

Godwins law fulfilled.

Jimmy James
May 27, 2011, 04:17 PM
Hi,

This is Phil. I thought I would try to answer some of the questions you guys might have.

I already surrendered pretty much all the info including sources, email messages, IM chat logs, to all the invoices.

Oh snap.

Adidas Addict
May 27, 2011, 04:20 PM
I think what he did was a great business idea, filled a gap in the market. Living the American dream. Maybe he should apply for The Apprentice next year, I'm sure Lord Sugar would appreciate his business acumen.

ucmj22
May 27, 2011, 04:45 PM
Hi,

This is Phil. I thought I would try to answer some of the questions you guys might have.

I already surrendered pretty much all the info including sources, email messages, IM chat logs, to all the invoices.

Did you really think that what you were doing was not going to get you in trouble?

mr666
May 27, 2011, 04:59 PM
If this were a crime against person instead of an intellectual property crime, the report would emphasize his age and status as either minor or legal adult. How old is this "kid"? Can a "teenager" be 19 years old? Would a 19 year old armed robber get a verbal warning?

macking104
May 27, 2011, 05:16 PM
Other big questions:
Did the kid have a business license?
Did he pay the import duties on the parts?
Did he report any income/loss to the IRS?

Rodimus Prime
May 27, 2011, 05:39 PM
Seems to be BS.

Lawsuits CANNOT be filed without his knowledge, unless he or his parents choose to ignore the legal letters.

Umm yes they can be filed with out your knowledge. Chances are the notification could of been in the mail so to speak so it was filed (and public record) before the official notification got to them.

Dagless
May 27, 2011, 05:40 PM
A teenager with no money or lawyer against Apple legal.

I don't envy the kid and it's made me dislike Apple a bit more.

*LTD*
May 27, 2011, 05:49 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Absolutely not.

Lessen the punishment a bit, but make an example out of him so crap like tis doesn't spread.

That'll do wonders for Apples image. Apple needs to let this go but they're too much of a bully to do the right thing. They're suing children now which shows what kind of person Steve Jobs really is.... a dbag.

It'll have zero effect on Apppe's image because consumers weren't affected and no puppies were killed. Apple's image is about their products, the Cool factor, and the iLifestyle. The average consumer isn't going to give a damn about some lawsuit about a dumb kid when they're waiting for their iPad.

Things like this have never affected Apple's image. I remember Apple taking a dump all over a little girl who offered an unsolicited product idea back in 2006. No one really cared. People continued to line up for Apple gear.

It's not bad nor good, it's just reality.

You know what affects image in tech? Selling boring, lousy products. And historic antitrust cases that make the headlines and show how a company lied and cheated their way to market share. You know who to ask about that.

Rodimus Prime
May 27, 2011, 05:51 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



It'll have zero effect on Apppe's image because consumers weren't affected and no puppies were killed. Apple's image is about their products, the Cool factor, and the iLifestyle. The average consumer isn't going to give a **** about some lawsuit about a dumb kid when they're waiting for their iPad.

Things like this have never affected Apple's image. I remember Apple taking a dump all over a little girl who offered an unsolicited product idea back in 2006. No one really cared. People continued to line up for Apple gear.

It's not bad nor good, it's just reality.

You know what affects image in tech? Selling boring, lousy products. And historic antitrust cases that make the headlines and show how a company lied and cheated their way to market share. You know who to ask about that.

Only to people like you.

To the rest of the world Apple image is going down quickly. They already are starting to be viewed as worse than MS ever was.

As for the case I willing to bet who Apple is really after is the kids supplier and they more than likely will let him keep most if not all his profits as the supplier is the real threat and who more than likely made the real killing on this. Getting a distributed is minor you have to kill the supply line if you want to stop it from happening.

mw360
May 27, 2011, 05:57 PM
A teenager with no money or lawyer against Apple legal.

I don't envy the kid and it's made me dislike Apple a bit more.

The kid's not being sued. The lawsuit was withdrawn before he even found out about it. How could you possibly have missed that?

And how's the kid gone from $130,000 to $0 in such a hurry? Rumours of his business acumen seem to be greatly exaggerated.

davidgrimm
May 27, 2011, 05:57 PM
This is truly unfortunate. They are basically saying that nobody can sell parts for me to modify my phone. They have essentially patented the color white on an iPhone. That's stupid. This would be like Ford suing paints shops for painting cars the same color it came from the factory. Why can't I buy parts for MY PHONE in white and install them? Its MY PHONE.

MCP-511
May 27, 2011, 05:59 PM
If he legally obtained the parts and can prove they were disposed of by Foxconn, a salvage claim is in order here. Then Apple can't do anything.

That would of been a good idea before starting, maybe. You definitely want to have all your ducks in a row before you venture into business with the big boys. Kid or not, seems like epic fail to me on the kids part and his parents. Obviously his parents are not paying attention to his activities either.

*LTD*
May 27, 2011, 06:09 PM
Only to people like you.

To the rest of the world Apple image is going down quickly. They already are starting to be viewed as worse than MS ever was.

Consumers need to stop opening their wallets to Apple and get over their Apple-obsession before anyone believes that.

Won't happen anytime soon. It's all about Apple. And more Apple.

http://macdailynews.com/2011/05/09/apple-leaps-past-google-to-become-worlds-most-valuable-brand/

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20results.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/05/20/apple_makes_huge_inroads_in_enterprise_as_corporate_mac_sales_surge_66.html

Apple can barely keep up with iPad demand, for example. iPhone sales estimates for 2012 are, well, stratospheric to say the least. And probably right, too. Mac sales are at an all-time high.

http://www.9to5mac.com/69609/ipad-2s-go-on-sale-in-russia-to-long-lines-and-high-prices/

Damn. Who *isn't* buying??

For consumers it's all about the goods, not moral dilemmas.

But hey, we'll take your word for it. Who am I to negate your delusions?

AidenShaw
May 27, 2011, 06:13 PM
Consumers need to stop opening their wallets to Apple and get over their Apple-obsession...

I thought that sanity had overtaken you here - but you continued to type. ;)

benthewraith
May 27, 2011, 06:17 PM
I'd say he already used it on Apple when he stole their intellectual property and conspired with his international accomplices to illegally profit at Apple's expense.

He's not a "kid" he's a criminal.

That's the thing, you can't prove that Apple lost sales due to the kid. The product was sold prior to the white iPhone being sold. It still required people with an iPhone to buy.

As I recall, these parts were declared defective to begin with. Chances are they were destined for the trash.

Did the kid break the law? Yes. But the loss to Apple was marginal at best.

To those saying he's unwise to take a lawyer to the meeting... he doesn't have the money for a lawyer.

mw360
May 27, 2011, 06:17 PM
This is truly unfortunate. They are basically saying that nobody can sell parts for me to modify my phone. They have essentially patented the color white on an iPhone. That's stupid. This would be like Ford suing paints shops for painting cars the same color it came from the factory. Why can't I buy parts for MY PHONE in white and install them? Its MY PHONE.

Have you read more than 5 words of any article on this topic? Perhaps you only understand the language of stupid analogies. Here's one that will help you understand. This scenario is like Ford suing body shops for selling to customers Ford branded chassis panels that were either stolen, defective or counterfeit. What Apple have 'essentially patented' is their name, logo, brand etc. This is quite normal.

Rodimus Prime
May 27, 2011, 06:17 PM
Consumers need to stop opening their wallets to Apple and get over their Apple-obsession before anyone believes that.



someone does not understand what a PR image is and then sales. Not exactly the same thing.

Apple public image has been dropping like a rock for a while. But like I said before you could never understand that and just link to fanboy sites singing how great it is.

benthewraith
May 27, 2011, 06:18 PM
And how's the kid gone from $130,000 to $0 in such a hurry? Rumours of his business acumen seem to be greatly exaggerated.

Those were initial reports by the press before the kid was even interviewed. What he really made we don't know. But considering how he said he didn't have much money... he still had to pay for the parts.

*LTD*
May 27, 2011, 06:21 PM
someone does not understand what a PR image is and then sales. Not exactly the same thing.

Apple public image has been dropping like a rock for a while. But like I said before you could never understand that and just link to fanboy sites singing how great it is.

Unless it translates into dollars, it's meaningless.

Apple's public image rests on the strength of their products. It's inseparable from what the brand represents.

Everything else - unless extreme - is ephemeral. I doubt most consumers even know or care about this lawsuit. Which, by the way, has been dropped. In a couple of days it'll be forgotten.

Get real.

Rodimus Prime
May 27, 2011, 06:25 PM
Unless it translates into dollars, it's meaningless.

Apple's public image rests on the strength of their products. It's inseparable from what the brand represents.

Everything else - unless extreme - is ephemeral. I doubt most consumers even know or care about this lawsuit. Which, by the way, has been dropped. In a couple of days it'll be forgotten.

Get real.

but it does translate into dollars. A lot of people are refusing to buy Apple products due to it. That is a lot of loss potentional sales. Not that I would expect you to understand that.

I also see that you clearly do not care what a company does. I guess Apple could beat people to death rob them blind and as long as they are making great sale numbers you could care less.

I see that you already sold your soul to Apple which sold it to the devil for more profit.

*LTD*
May 27, 2011, 06:39 PM
but it does translate into dollars. A lot of people are refusing to buy Apple products due to it.

Oh yeah. we can really tell. :rolleyes:

That's right. I *don't* understand your entire imaginary, illusory argument.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20results.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/29/apple_profits_top_microsoft/

Of course I care what a company does. Most people do. In this instance the company in question has protected their brand and gone after thieves. This is normal.

They haven't killed anyone. They haven't beaten anyone to death. They're trying to make the best of difficult conditions in China that affect nearly all tech companies that use foreign labour. They go after thieves. They protect their intellectual property and brand integrity. They try to make a profit by selling desirable products.

In other words, nothing to see here. Except record sales. I'm not sure what YOU are seeing, though. You think maybe it's time to sit down and figure out what's real and what's fiction in your world, while you're going on about souls and devils? It probably is.

AppleScruff1
May 27, 2011, 07:10 PM
Absolutely not.

Lessen the punishment a bit, but make an example out of him so crap like tis doesn't spread.

Too bad they can't do that with fanboys too.

*LTD*
May 27, 2011, 07:34 PM
Too bad they can do that with fanboys too.

I'm not sure what this means. LOL

AppleScruff1
May 27, 2011, 08:26 PM
I messed up and wrote can when I meant can't, so I ruined my own attempt at humor. I went back and edited the post, but the punch line has lost its effect. :D

Legion93
May 27, 2011, 08:37 PM
However, the kid who did this has something to learn about dealing in obviously stolen parts.

How the hell would you know the parts were stolen? If they are legally purchased with proof of purchase such as a receipt Apple cannot do anything apart from file a lawsuit against the supplier that sold the parts.

caspersoong
May 27, 2011, 08:42 PM
Apple is really unfair. But they have to do anything to get as much money as possible. IMO quite like many lawyers.

AidenShaw
May 27, 2011, 08:49 PM
Apple is really unfair. But they have to do anything to get as much money as possible. IMO quite like many lawyers.

To get as much of your money as possible.

I know quite a few lawyers with more ethics than Apple Consumer Electronics Inc.

AppleScruff1
May 27, 2011, 08:52 PM
To get as much of your money as possible.

I know quite a few lawyers with more ethics than Apple Consumer Electronics Inc.

Ouch. :D

*LTD*
May 27, 2011, 08:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I messed up and wrote can when I meant can't, so I ruined my own attempt at humor. I went back and edited the post, but the punch line has lost its effect. :D

Lol no worries. Happens to me as well now and then.

Rodimus Prime
May 27, 2011, 08:57 PM
To get as much of your money as possible.

I know quite a few lawyers with more ethics than Apple Consumer Electronics Inc.

you should of said Politicians. Not lawyers

louis Fashion
May 27, 2011, 09:14 PM
From this sound bite the kid sounds like a dufus.

Yeah a dufus who made a boat load of money. I see him as CEO of Goldman Slacks in a few years.......kid MIGHT improve Goldmans' ethics.....nicht war?

AidenShaw
May 27, 2011, 09:25 PM
you should of said Politicians. Not lawyers

No, I meant lawyers.

I work and volunteer for several 501(c)3 organizations - and our attorneys are wonderful.

ryanwarsaw
May 27, 2011, 09:47 PM
I am not sure why people keep calling him a dumb kid? How many of us on this board were importing goods from China and reselling them at 16? You can say he did the wrong thing or whatever but I am not seeing dumb here. He might of mad more this year than many of the people calling him stupid.

AppleScruff1
May 27, 2011, 09:52 PM
I am not sure why people keep calling him a dumb kid? How many of us on this board were importing goods from China and reselling them at 16? You can say he did the wrong thing or whatever but I am not seeing dumb here. He might of mad more this year than many of the people calling him stupid.

So true. Obviously the kid is quite intelligent, it just was misdirected a bit.

miamijim
May 27, 2011, 10:23 PM
Didn't one of Apple's head honcho's source his white iPhone kit from this kid....

halhiker
May 27, 2011, 10:26 PM
Deleted

SandynJosh
May 27, 2011, 10:47 PM
Lessen the punishment a bit, but make an example out of him so crap like tis doesn't spread.

If it were up to me the kid should have to agree to never use anything but a Dell netbook running Vista for the rest of his life. That would put the Fear of Steve into anyone else considering such a thing again.

DarthMoops
May 27, 2011, 11:03 PM
Someone needs to tell this kid that if he wants to live in NYC and rip people off he needs to go to an Ivy League school and get a job on Wall Street first.
:cool:

AppleScruff1
May 27, 2011, 11:14 PM
someone needs to tell this kid that if he wants to live in nyc and rip people off he needs to go to an ivy league school and get a job on wall street first.
:cool:

lol!!

marksman
May 27, 2011, 11:48 PM
I wouldn't even bother bringing a lawyer, the suit is already withdrawn...there's not much to fear at this point, if you think about it.

This.

They will come to some kind of agreement/understanding. The kid will have to sign a non-disclosure, along with his parents, to never talk about the case, and you will never hear about it again.

leomac08
May 27, 2011, 11:56 PM
He should plead the fifth! :cool:

Benjamins
May 28, 2011, 12:12 AM
He should plead the fifth! :cool:

The fifth is only good if there's no way the plaintiff can prove anything.

Here there are clear transactions of him selling stolen Apple parts or something that pretends to be legitimate Apple parts.

Rajani Isa
May 28, 2011, 12:19 AM
The suit is withdrawn, there is no upside in meeting with Apple's corporate counsel.
Dismissed in a way that does not prevent them from bringing it ack up.
Seems to be BS.

Lawsuits CANNOT be filed without his knowledge, unless he or his parents choose to ignore the legal letters.
Lawsuits very well can be filled without someone's knowledge, I'm fairly certain. There is to my knowledge no legal prerequisite to filing a lawsuit that requires you to notify the defendant(s) /before/ filing.
I bet the nazis would have let him off the hook

Godwins law fulfilled.
Fail. Godwin's law does not apply to intentionally bringing up Nazis and such in order to invoke it.
This is truly unfortunate. They are basically saying that nobody can sell parts for me to modify my phone. They have essentially patented the color white on an iPhone. That's stupid. This would be like Ford suing paints shops for painting cars the same color it came from the factory. Why can't I buy parts for MY PHONE in white and install them? Its MY PHONE.
You can buy parts for you phone. Apple just wants to make sure if it says "Apple" or has their logo, they made it. If it does and they didn't (or they did but it was not released for sale) they will go after the sellers.

Anyone selling something with a Ford logo is paying ford for their logo (or risking a lawsuit).

shootingrubber
May 28, 2011, 12:20 AM
The product is Apples, and it is up to Apple to decide whether or not to release it, not some snot nosed algebra student. The joke is that people dont think this kid should be held accountable. just because he is a teenager doesn't make the crime any less. if some dumbass teenager breaks in to my house and steals my iMac im not going to tussle his hair and say "eh dont worry about it, you're just a teenager."

Are you seriously saying that people cannot modify a product that they bought? Who cares if it's Apple's product. You're telling me that you cannot remove the superdrive in a MacBook pro and replace it with a hard drive or solid state drive because Apple says so?

Do you really think Apple didn't have access to the kits this kid was selling? If that was the case why didn't he just sale straight to Apple.

Did it never cross your mind that maybe Apple wan't satisfied with the quality of those parts and that is why they didn't release them and also why they didn't want this guy to. Maybe Apple doesn't want someone else deciding what meets the "Apple Standard".

But then again, maybe your right and this guy figured out how to fix a manufacturing process problem that completely stumped Apple, who happens to hire some of the best people in the world to fix those problems. If that is the case (which i'm sure stranger things have happened) i would expect to hear that Apple has hired him on for a couple 100K a year.

Who cares if the parts weren't up to Apple's standards. What does this have to do with anything? It wasn't Apple selling them -- it was this teenager. People can modify things they buy as they choose. Are you telling me that all of the manufacturers of aftermarket parts for cars should be sued? Aftermarket window tinters should be sued because they didn't go through the dealer? Give me a break.

Oh you are so clever. Apple had plenty of white cases that didn't quite work well enough to be sold without hordes of people complaining. This teenager got hold of these white cases and sold them. Everybody who bought them bought something that in Apple's eyes wasn't in saleable quality.




He is of course both.

Again, who cares about what Apple thinks is sale-able quality -- they weren't selling them. And how do you know this teenager got a hold of these specific white cases? They are really not that hard to make, as there were tons of them being sold.

Benjamins
May 28, 2011, 12:24 AM
Are you seriously saying that people cannot modify a product that they bought? Who cares if it's Apple's product. You're telling me that you cannot remove the superdrive in a MacBook pro and replace it with a hard drive or solid state drive because Apple says so?



Who cares if the parts weren't up to Apple's standards. What does this have to do with anything? It wasn't Apple selling them -- it was this teenager. People can modify things they buy as they choose. Are you telling me that all of the manufacturers of aftermarket parts for cars should be sued? Aftermarket window tinters should be sued because they didn't go through the dealer? Give me a break.



Again, who cares about what Apple thinks is sale-able quality -- they weren't selling them. And how do you know this teenager got a hold of these specific white cases? They are really not that hard to make, as there were tons of them being sold.

again this has nothing to do with modifying the iPhone. It has everything to do with the kid selling something that pretends to be a legit Apple part, or a stolen Apple part.

ryanwarsaw
May 28, 2011, 12:31 AM
The fifth is only good if there's no way the plaintiff can prove anything.

Here there are clear transactions of him selling stolen Apple parts or something that pretends to be legitimate Apple parts.

What does that prove? Those parts could have been found in some garbage can. If I find Dell parts in a dumpster I am with in my rights to sell them. I have no idea either way but neither do you so stop stating things that are opinions like they are facts.

ryanwarsaw
May 28, 2011, 12:39 AM
again this has nothing to do with modifying the iPhone. It has everything to do with the kid selling something that pretends to be a legit Apple part, or a stolen Apple part.

Just saw this post so pardon my double post. I can sell original Corvette parts for a Chevy if they are not stolen. If they are stolen or not is really the issue and as there is no criminal complaint so far it suggests not.

Benjamins
May 28, 2011, 12:54 AM
What does that prove? Those parts could have been found in some garbage can. If I find Dell parts in a dumpster I am with in my rights to sell them. I have no idea either way but neither do you so stop stating things that are opinions like they are facts.
:rolleyes:
I think finding it in a dumpster is the only defense you can find.

Find me a dumpster that I can find that many unreleased legit or KIRF Apple parts.

3goldens
May 28, 2011, 01:14 AM
Should anyone be interviewing and publishing remarks from a minor?

Not so sure about that one.

rstansby
May 28, 2011, 01:24 AM
Typical Apple. "We don't like you, see you in court"

Typical response from a person with no intellectual property to protect.

PeterQVenkman
May 28, 2011, 01:51 AM
Fail. Godwin's law does not apply to intentionally bringing up Nazis and such in order to invoke it.

I bet you're a hoot at parties.

MorphingDragon
May 28, 2011, 01:58 AM
The only thing that pissed me off is that he used "LOL"...under the circumstances, I wouldn't.

Its just like how some people laugh when they're in deep ****. Some people just roll like that.

---

I bet you somebody could make pretty legitimate cases from high quality perspex. Polish it enough and give it the right coating and BAM, glass looking and feeling plastic.

RobQuads
May 28, 2011, 04:19 AM
You can buy parts for you phone. Apple just wants to make sure if it says "Apple" or has their logo, they made it. If it does and they didn't (or they did but it was not released for sale) they will go after the sellers.
.

Have you seen ebay lately. how many cases, back panels etc have the Apple logo and/or name on it. If that was really thier motive they would be blocking all of that stuff and be on ebays case

doctor-don
May 28, 2011, 08:06 AM
Tip to kid:

Record the meeting.

Better still, have the secretary in the deposition provide you with a copy.

Slap his wrist and put some pressure on FOXCON to better control their parts.

The only thing that pissed me off is that he used "LOL"...under the circumstances, I wouldn't.

"LOL"? Interview?

That was an e-mail exchange, nothing more.

The kid should stick to getting an education so he won't come off as uneducated and ignorant of the facts of life in the real world.

What is this kid thinking going up against corporate lawyers without any representation? Apple lawyers nonetheless.

Take whatever money you made and hire a lawyer.

Heck, find a lawyer that will do this pro bono. What junior associate would not jump at the opportunity to defend someone against Apple's legal? It's a win-win situation for the junior lawyer.

His parent(s) should have hired a lawyer already.

Hi,

This is Phil. I thought I would try to answer some of the questions you guys might have.

I already surrendered pretty much all the info including sources, email messages, IM chat logs, to all the invoices.

RIGHT! "Phil"?

His age is not the question here. He broke the law and should be punished the same as any other criminal. If his parent(s) is(are) complicit, he(they), too, should be punished. How does a kid receive and sell that much merchandise without the knowledge and approval of his parental unit?

doctor-don
May 28, 2011, 08:17 AM
Im surprised at how few of you guys here realise how easy it was to get these white iPhone parts. Its complete bull the kid had a "contact at Foxcon" these parts were all over many Chinese internet sellers.

Just search alibaba.com or madeinchina.com and loads of sellers had the white iPhone "conversion kit" about a month or less after the iPhone 4 was released any of us could have bought those bits (I even considered it for my own phone until I realised obviously these were defected bits)

The parts he sold were either unofficially leaked from Foxcon in which case he bought them from one of the Chinese sellers. For those that dont know these Chinese sellers are kind of like middle men the Western world. They make it look like they have large warehouses and factories and loads of staff working for them...in reality its usually one Chinese guy with no stock. When you order they go down the markets or put an order in with their friend at the factories for the items you want.

The white iPhone bits might not even be from Foxconn, once the original iPhone was released and there was a demand for the white colour loads of factories in China would have been knocking them out - where there is a demand the Chinese will meet it, they couldn't care less about copyright and infringement.

You can buy all host of things with Apples logos branded on them, loads of phone cases with "designed in California" on the back and the Apple logo - very ugly cases as well.

At the end of the day this is a pretty black and white case. Those saying "leave the kid alone" are, quite frankly, wrong. There is no moral grey line here and I say that coming from a background where as a kid I did all kinds of stuff to make money.

Infact I had a friend who also breached copyright and trademark infringement and ended up in jail (selling copied games) he saw a gap in the market and supplied the demand.

The thing is its VERY VERY easy to make money when you sell counterfeit anything. All the hard work was done by the original rights holder. Start selling unbranded stuff and you wont make a penny. The risk is there for anyone to try, the kid tried it, made a bit of cash, got caught. Of course he know he shouldn't have done it.

He's wrong, end of, regardless of age (or intellect) I think we all understand basic copyright infringement from a very early age - certainly before you have the ability to build a website, take orders and produce work on demand.

The reason Apple need to make an example here and im surprised no one has made this clear either. If they dont, it sets an easy to copy precedent in which someone more intelligent than this kid could really go to town with counterfeit and fake Apple products and would always be able to cite this case as a get out clause. They need to make sure someone with more money and less morales doesn't go about doing something similar in a cleverer less traceable way (after all every member of this forum could have bought the same white parts from China and done the same thing) - eventually they'd probably lose but if there is one example of comparable punishment out there which is far too light the lawyers can always argue upon it for years to come...a nightmare for Apple (or any company)

WHY would any legitimate individual be looking on those sites? That's just another reason the bootleggers and criminals continue their business in the world.

You agree, at least, that the kid should be punished ... with more than a slap on the back of the head.
末末末末末
English isn't your first / native language, is it?

doctor-don
May 28, 2011, 08:26 AM
"...I admire him. He filled a gap in the market and gave some people what they wanted."

let's see how many other people, by giving some people what they wanted we have around, these days: too many to count drug cartels trying their best to get everybody's fav pills to 'em, counseling people on how not to pay income tax because these seminars say they don't have to, underage/anyage sex workers shipped in to satisfy the pent up demand of perverted horny types.
that logic of filling the "gap in the market" is really really stupid logic.
somehow, also, his being a teenager makes him immune to the law? so at what age does the law apply? and below that age anything goes? or who decides what should go? readers of macrumors? his parents? people who bought the stuff? a jury?
im a bit older than he is, but i've had to scrap for things. i don't admire or respect his approach, though it's everyone's personal call. it may be a lot of supporters do the same things, only at a more adult level, so in their opinion, it's not only ok, it's admirable.
i think it's hard to run your venture (and i'm a beginner at being an entrepreneur possibly, from people who comment here) if you don't have integrity. in the short run, you can make a killing, and maybe, like madoff even make it in the long run, but there's always the chance the truth comes out.

A chance the truth comes out?

You sound like all the drivers on the roads who will obey laws only if they think someone in law enforcement might stop them.

The question is, At the end of the day, can I look myself in the eye?

jonnysods
May 28, 2011, 08:36 AM
So, all expenses paid trip to NY? Nice.

They are going to make him rat out his sources. That's what they are more interested in here I think.

doctor-don
May 28, 2011, 08:38 AM
Should anyone be interviewing and publishing remarks from a minor?

Not so sure about that one.

As you and everyone else have been told, don't put anything in an e-mail that you don't want everyone else reading.

Bluestrike2
May 28, 2011, 09:11 AM
Apple couldn't release the white iPhone 4 when they said they would, and then a teenager figured out a way around it -- and now they are suing him?

What a joke.

Those of you trying to defend his actions are absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Apple was able to release a white iPhone. That's completely, 100% irrelevant.

What matters is the trademark infringement and the sale of stolen parts. The kid didn't find "a way around it," rather, he trafficked in stolen goods.

The way some people bend backwards to justify things is absolutely incredible at times.

shootingrubber
May 28, 2011, 09:15 AM
Those of you trying to defend his actions are absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't matter if Apple was able to release a white iPhone. That's completely, 100% irrelevant.

What matters is the trademark infringement and the sale of stolen parts. The kid didn't find "a way around it," rather, he trafficked in stolen goods.

The way some people bend backwards to justify things is absolutely incredible at times.

First of all, how do you know they are stolen goods? Parts like that could easily be made. Read my last post, post #95.

doctor-don
May 28, 2011, 09:28 AM
First of all, how do you know they are stolen goods? Parts like that could easily be made. Read my last post, post #95.

Parts like that often are manufactured in China and sold under the name of the original company. They often break or do not perform as the parts made by the original company. The AC-to-USB plug with the little green dot comes to mind.:eek:

How many posters have READ the entire published conversation between the entrepreneur Lam and the Fast Company person, Austin Carr? It was a chat, not an e-mail as it first was reported.

Obviously, at least one has not read the Mac Rumors story since Lam is a 17-year-old student in Queens. He already is in New York, and he is not a teen who could be 19.

Now Lam has another endeavor, "a new social discovery site." The only way to learn more is to provide an e-mail address. Smacks of a SPAM provider.

jb510
May 28, 2011, 10:18 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I believe Apple is going to demand a shrubbery... Well it's a likely as all the other ignorant conjecture posted in the comments....The level of cynicism aimed at Apple, Lam and the legal system is actually rather disturbing.

Apple filed and immediately withdrew their suit. Apple does this ALL the time with various knock off manufaturers. Apple has probably already spent more in legal fees on this than Lam made in profits. There is little if any point in pursuing damages or legal fees in scenarios like this its about shutting down the operation. Apple isn't RIAA out to make a point they just need to shut down and document for posterity what allowed Lam to get ahold of and sell these parts so it's less likely to happen again.

As for Lam going to the meeting without representation, it's unclear to me what type of meeting it is, but while yes he probably should take council it's unlikely he's going to slip up and say "actually I'm still selling conversion kits and have $30m in a Swiss account". He's already chosen to fully cooperate and provide all relevant info to Apple.

marmiteturkey
May 28, 2011, 10:44 AM
Who cares if the parts weren't up to Apple's standards. What does this have to do with anything? It wasn't Apple selling them -- it was this teenager. People can modify things they buy as they choose. Are you telling me that all of the manufacturers of aftermarket parts for cars should be sued? Aftermarket window tinters should be sued because they didn't go through the dealer? Give me a break.

And how do you know this teenager got a hold of these specific white cases? They are really not that hard to make, as there were tons of them being sold.

Pay attention before you make yourself look even more silly. The parts BELONGED to Apple. He wasn't selling legitimately manufactured parts; he was selling parts that Apple junked and that were then resold by a source at the manufacturer.

Noone is saying you shouldn't have a white iphone, or blue, or red, or green. Apple isn't suing colorware. They're making an example of a kid who was fencing stolen goods that they had paid for and chosen not to put on the market.

ucmj22
May 28, 2011, 10:46 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

The product is Apples, and it is up to Apple to decide whether or not to release it, not some snot nosed algebra student. The joke is that people dont think this kid should be held accountable. just because he is a teenager doesn't make the crime any less. if some dumbass teenager breaks in to my house and steals my iMac im not going to tussle his hair and say "eh dont worry about it, you're just a teenager."

Are you seriously saying that people cannot modify a product that they bought? Who cares if it's Apple's product. You're telling me that you cannot remove the superdrive in a MacBook pro and replace it with a hard drive or solid state drive because Apple says so?

Do you really think Apple didn't have access to the kits this kid was selling? If that was the case why didn't he just sale straight to Apple.

Did it never cross your mind that maybe Apple wan't satisfied with the quality of those parts and that is why they didn't release them and also why they didn't want this guy to. Maybe Apple doesn't want someone else deciding what meets the "Apple Standard".

But then again, maybe your right and this guy figured out how to fix a manufacturing process problem that completely stumped Apple, who happens to hire some of the best people in the world to fix those problems. If that is the case (which i'm sure stranger things have happened) i would expect to hear that Apple has hired him on for a couple 100K a year.

Who cares if the parts weren't up to Apple's standards. What does this have to do with anything? It wasn't Apple selling them -- it was this teenager. People can modify things they buy as they choose. Are you telling me that all of the manufacturers of aftermarket parts for cars should be sued? Aftermarket window tinters should be sued because they didn't go through the dealer? Give me a break.

Oh you are so clever. Apple had plenty of white cases that didn't quite work well enough to be sold without hordes of people complaining. This teenager got hold of these white cases and sold them. Everybody who bought them bought something that in Apple's eyes wasn't in saleable quality.




He is of course both.

Again, who cares about what Apple thinks is sale-able quality -- they weren't selling them. And how do you know this teenager got a hold of these specific white cases? They are really not that hard to make, as there were tons of them being sold.

... You're kidding right... You can't be that dense. You can do whatever you want to your MacBook. What you can't do is purchase is purchase a pallet of samsung SSHD's that were stolen from their storage facility and sell them to all of your friends so they can change their MacBooks. You should probably speak your posts in to a mirror a few times before you type them to make sure they make sense. I think it's funny that all of these people are crying saying "why won't apple let me change my phone. Waaa waaa" Change your phone! Take the panels off of it and sand down the black on the glass and silk screen white on it. Oh wait... It's not that easy. Well I'll just steal someone else hard work and use/sell that since I don't want to wait. The fact of the matter is that apple makes the best / highest quality products Which is why you didn't run down to your local mall kiosk and get the crappy white iPhone conversion kit. You can't force someone to make you something just because you want it.

DeanSolecki
May 28, 2011, 11:12 AM
The product is Apples, and it is up to Apple to decide whether or not to release it, not some snot nosed algebra student. The joke is that people dont think this kid should be held accountable. just because he is a teenager doesn't make the crime any less. if some dumbass teenager breaks in to my house and steals my iMac im not going to tussle his hair and say "eh dont worry about it, you're just a teenager."

So every time Apple infringes upon a patent it's like they've robbed the bank where you keep your life savings, right?

What exactly is this analogy supposed to convey; beyond your complete lack of measure?

How is the case with the kid remotely similar to home invasion?

If you were a bit brighter you may have noticed that you're trying to align a white collar crime (patent violations) with a typically blue collar example (armed robbery) because the masses generally hold one in disdain and tolerate the other. You've made a poor go at it, however. It has been fairly broadly reported that he acquired the parts from a "businessman" and there is not yet any evidence that he stole anything.

FWIW, I'd take a handful of petty shoplifters over one Joe Nacchio. Get your head out of your ass.

ucmj22
May 28, 2011, 11:53 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

The product is Apples, and it is up to Apple to decide whether or not to release it, not some snot nosed algebra student. The joke is that people dont think this kid should be held accountable. just because he is a teenager doesn't make the crime any less. if some dumbass teenager breaks in to my house and steals my iMac im not going to tussle his hair and say "eh dont worry about it, you're just a teenager."

So every time Apple infringes upon a patent it's like they've robbed the bank where you keep your life savings, right?

What exactly is this analogy supposed to convey; beyond your complete lack of measure?

How is the case with the kid remotely similar to home invasion?

If you were a bit brighter you may have noticed that you're trying to align a white collar crime (patent violations) with a typically blue collar example (armed robbery) because the masses generally hold one in disdain and tolerate the other. You've made a poor go at it, however. It has been fairly broadly reported that he acquired the parts from a "businessman" and there is not yet any evidence that he stole anything.

FWIW, I'd take a handful of petty shoplifters over one Joe Nacchio. Get your head out of your ass.

In my attempt to make a quick analogy relating to the absurdity of overlooking anycrime because the perpetrator is merely a "teenager" I have offended some people who believe that white collar crime is ok so let's go more real world. I am a graphic designer (real life) and I have a hard drive connected to my iMac with all of my work on it. Most of it impeccable, if I do say so myself, but some I shelved in it's own folder labeled "not for current use" because I didnt feel the the designs were up to my standards. Now my partner finds this folder and decides they are good enough so he sells them to someone else to use. Now there is someone out there selling a product that says "designed by Myname Here" that is not up to the standard that I have for my brand. Now I'm gettin calls from people asking why there are spelling errors in my files, and why isn't there a PDF version of the logo included with the logo package they bought with my name on it. And so I tell them that those designs were not intended to be sold and I'm sorry that this has happened. In the meantime they have already blogged about my lack of quality and my brand takes a hit. My profits and new clients drop by 60% over the next 18 months. Now what are my options? I can continue without doing anything and hope I bounce back or I can bring criminal charges against my partner and file a lawsuit against the teenager who purchased and resold my designs knowing that they had not purchased licensing right to do so. In doing this I can publicly assure people that the quality of my workmanship has not diminished and the substandard designs sold were not meant for sale.
What? That analogy was long and boring? I should have just cut to the chase with a succinct criminal analogy and gotten on with it? Sorry about that, I didn't want some jagoff lecturing me about the differences between white & blue collar crime

*LTD*
May 28, 2011, 11:56 AM
delete

*LTD*
May 28, 2011, 12:12 PM
The product is Apples, and it is up to Apple to decide whether or not to release it, not some snot nosed algebra student.

Perfectly stated. But is this not obvious to everyone? :confused:


It has been fairly broadly reported that he acquired the parts from a "businessman" and there is not yet any evidence that he stole anything.

FWIW, I'd take a handful of petty shoplifters over one Joe Nacchio.

A "businessman" . . . ok. Sounds perfectly legit. LOL

You have a pretty cavalier attitude when it comes to the law.

If the kid did re-sell stolen property, (knowingly or not) he has just as much of a problem.

He'll need to prove these goods were acquired legitimately and that they weren't stolen.

If they were, it will be up to the kid to demonstrate that he didn't know he was receiving stolen goods. He would be expected to cooperate with the police to catch the real thieves (should be really interesting), but as long as he doesn't have a past history of theft he should only get probation.

However, we're talking about a minor here. Which excuses nothing, but is a mitigating circumstance. To let the kid get away with it, however, demonstrates that it's alright to do this, profit from it, and get your 15 minutes of fame. Which also means it's alright for minors to act as intermediaries for adult criminals.

It would be extremely irresponsible both legally and in terms of Apple's business to do nothing. So they've done the right thing by going after the kid. Hopefully the investigation will be extended.

By the way, a crime is a crime. Even if it's only one Joe Nacchio. The law doesn't discriminate between the quantity of criminals. LOL

DeanSolecki
May 28, 2011, 01:41 PM
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In my attempt to make a quick analogy relating to the absurdity of overlooking anycrime because the perpetrator is merely a "teenager" I have offended some people who believe that white collar crime is ok so let's go more real world. I am a graphic designer (real life) and I have a hard drive connected to my iMac with all of my work on it. Most of it impeccable, if I do say so myself, but some I shelved in it's own folder labeled "not for current use" because I didnt feel the the designs were up to my standards. Now my partner finds this folder and decides they are good enough so he sells them to someone else to use. Now there is someone out there selling a product that says "designed by Myname Here" that is not up to the standard that I have for my brand. Now I'm gettin calls from people asking why there are spelling errors in my files, and why isn't there a PDF version of the logo included with the logo package they bought with my name on it. And so I tell them that those designs were not intended to be sold and I'm sorry that this has happened. In the meantime they have already blogged about my lack of quality and my brand takes a hit. My profits and new clients drop by 60% over the next 18 months. Now what are my options? I can continue without doing anything and hope I bounce back or I can bring criminal charges against my partner and file a lawsuit against the teenager who purchased and resold my designs knowing that they had not purchased licensing right to do so. In doing this I can publicly assure people that the quality of my workmanship has not diminished and the substandard designs sold were not meant for sale.
What? That analogy was long and boring? I should have just cut to the chase with a succinct criminal analogy and gotten on with it? Sorry about that, I didn't want some jagoff lecturing me about the differences between white & blue collar crime

Your example again doesn't contribute anything. At least this time it's less hyperbolic; although just as irrelevant.

If you had a business partner that was authorized to sell your work then there wouldn't be a crime. If your business partner stole your work and sold it to someone why would you hold the person that purchased it responsible? Because they may have known that it was acquired illegally, although may not have known? Do you really think that's how you'd approach it? I feel like if anything you're making the argument that Apple should be suing foxconn.

Should apple sue every person that bought a samsung smartphone/tablet? You're a silly person.

In regard to damages, or hypothetical damages, it is extremely unlikely that people buying third party parts for an iphone that they are going to disassemble and reassemble will believe Apple is responsible for the quality of said parts. If you bought a third party case that was poorly made you wouldn't blame apple. This argument is asinine.

And I was making the point that the difference between white collar and blue collar crime is a cultural one. If we quantify the effects white collar crime is always more harmful, but the blindingly naive tend to think blue collar theft is more offensive nonetheless. Example: You.

DeanSolecki
May 28, 2011, 01:52 PM
Perfectly stated. But is this not obvious to everyone? :confused:




A "businessman" . . . ok. Sounds perfectly legit. LOL

You have a pretty cavalier attitude when it comes to the law.

If the kid did re-sell stolen property, (knowingly or not) he has just as much of a problem.

He'll need to prove these goods were acquired legitimately and that they weren't stolen.

If they were, it will be up to the kid to demonstrate that he didn't know he was receiving stolen goods. He would be expected to cooperate with the police to catch the real thieves (should be really interesting), but as long as he doesn't have a past history of theft he should only get probation.

However, we're talking about a minor here. Which excuses nothing, but is a mitigating circumstance. To let the kid get away with it, however, demonstrates that it's alright to do this, profit from it, and get your 15 minutes of fame. Which also means it's alright for minors to act as intermediaries for adult criminals.

It would be extremely irresponsible both legally and in terms of Apple's business to do nothing. So they've done the right thing by going after the kid. Hopefully the investigation will be extended.

By the way, a crime is a crime. Even if it's only one Joe Nacchio. The law doesn't discriminate between the quantity of criminals. LOL

I'm not discussing the legality of his actions. "Law" has a pretty horrific history, my friend, and believing that it stands for "righteousness" is a silly proposition. At best we might say that law is a set of rules that attempt to prevent or encourage certain behaviors amongst a populace, but even that is a bit naive. When corporations don't like laws they lobby to have them changed. What might individuals do? Congregate around a given cause to broadly articulate a concern? Perhaps. That's a different discussion.

Also, do I really need to dig up the ridiculous laws that still exist to this day for you to retract your thoughtless statement, "a crime is a crime?" That is most certainly not the case by any qualification that stands fast for me, or I'd argue, the vast majority of individuals.

There was a point when it was illegal for a black man to own property in this country. If he attempted to do so it would be a crime. Rape would also be a crime. You contend that some sort of equality exists between these two behaviors?

Now a black man can buy property, so the illustration no longer serves. Would you contend, then, that we've perfected law? A crime is a crime? What could you possibly be trying to convey with this expression?

ucmj22
May 28, 2011, 02:07 PM
Your example again doesn't contribute anything. At least this time it's less hyperbolic; although just as irrelevant.

If you had a business partner that was authorized to sell your work then there wouldn't be a crime. If your business partner stole your work and sold it to someone why would you hold the person that purchased it responsible? Because they may have known that it was acquired illegally, although may not have known? Do you really think that's how you'd approach it? I feel like if anything you're making the argument that Apple should be suing foxconn.

Should apple sue every person that bought a samsung smartphone/tablet? You're a silly person.

In regard to damages, or hypothetical damages, it is extremely unlikely that people buying third party parts for an iphone that they are going to disassemble and reassemble will believe Apple is responsible for the quality of said parts. If you bought a third party case that was poorly made you wouldn't blame apple. This argument is asinine.

And I was making the point that the difference between white collar and blue collar crime is a cultural one. If we quantify the effects white collar crime is always more harmful, but the blindingly naive tend to think blue collar theft is more offensive nonetheless. Example: You.

Again you have missed the point of the discussion. My first post was meant to illustrate the fact that even if a perpetrator of a crime is a teenager he is still to be held accountable for his actions.
Then you decide to make my post about white collar and blue collar crime in a vain attempt to cover for the teenager. So I then create a hypothetical to explain the damage done to apple when this type of thing occurs and you some how bastardize that to the point that no one even remembers that this is someone who purchased apple property (or at least presented as apple property) and then sold it, therefore profiting off of someone else's licensed property. Anyone who owns a business or has intellectual property understands that your arguments are ignorant and detracting. Good day sir


I SAY GOOD DAY!

*LTD*
May 28, 2011, 02:38 PM
I'm not discussing the legality of his actions. "Law" has a pretty horrific history, my friend, and believing that it stands for "righteousness" is a silly proposition. At best we might say that law is a set of rules that attempt to prevent or encourage certain behaviors amongst a populace, but even that is a bit naive. When corporations don't like laws they lobby to have them changed. What might individuals do? Congregate around a given cause to broadly articulate a concern? Perhaps. That's a different discussion.

Also, do I really need to dig up the ridiculous laws that still exist to this day for you to retract your thoughtless statement, "a crime is a crime?" That is most certainly not the case by any qualification that stands fast for me, or I'd argue, the vast majority of individuals.

There was a point when it was illegal for a black man to own property in this country. If he attempted to do so it would be a crime. Rape would also be a crime. You contend that some sort of equality exists between these two behaviors?

Now a black man can buy property, so the illustration no longer serves. Would you contend, then, that we've perfected law? A crime is a crime? What could you possibly be trying to convey with this expression?

In that case your concerns would be best addressed by your congressperson or your member of parliament, not this forum.

DeanSolecki
May 28, 2011, 02:44 PM
Again you have missed the point of the discussion. My first post was meant to illustrate the fact that even if a perpetrator of a crime is a teenager he is still to be held accountable for his actions.
Then you decide to make my post about white collar and blue collar crime in a vain attempt to cover for the teenager. So I then create a hypothetical to explain the damage done to apple when this type of thing occurs and you some how bastardize that to the point that no one even remembers that this is someone who purchased apple property (or at least presented as apple property) and then sold it, therefore profiting off of someone else's licensed property. Anyone who owns a business or has intellectual property understands that your arguments are ignorant and detracting. Good day sir


I SAY GOOD DAY!

If your point was that a 17 year old misinterpreting patent law is a similar situation to a 17 year old murdering someone then I suppose the argument is fairly pointless. In one case it seems fairly reasonable that he might not understand the potential risks of his actions and if there was an ethical concern it was blurry. "Is it wrong to sell foxconn's products through an employee who recovered them from disposal without Apple's consent?"

In the other case it would have to be shown somehow that he didn't understand murder. Similar? Doesn't seem so.

If he were 19 the majority of these arguments would be unaltered.

Cheers.

DeanSolecki
May 28, 2011, 02:54 PM
In that case your concerns would be best addressed by your congressperson or your member of parliament, not this forum.

How do you figure that? What part of my statements would be addressed to/by a congressperson?

Odd statement.

Sardonick007
May 28, 2011, 04:18 PM
Tell us you're being sarcastic. You sound just as bad as the teenager that's in trouble right now. And he does sound like a punk.

How is it admirable to "handle" yourself in light of a legal situation that you caused? You're acting like he did something brave or honorable. He did something illegal and is subject to whatever consequences are passed his way. Maybe you two to take some time to learn what accountability means? It's sad that you think him facing the consequences for working illegally correlates to a bright future.

Thanks for not being like everybody else and glorifying this POS. If he broke the law, which it sounds like he did, he should get what's coming to him. As a teen, his parents should pay too. Making these punks sound like entrepreneurs is typical of our society today and it shows what a total lack of ethical and moral compass will get you.

DeanSolecki
May 28, 2011, 07:50 PM
Thanks for not being like everybody else and glorifying this POS. If he broke the law, which it sounds like he did, he should get what's coming to him. As a teen, his parents should pay too. Making these punks sound like entrepreneurs is typical of our society today and it shows what a total lack of ethical and moral compass will get you.

Guilty until proven innocent?

I think personal attacks on a 17 year old kid shows roughly what moral caliber your possessed of.

UrsaMajor
May 28, 2011, 08:20 PM
I'd say he already used it on Apple when he stole their intellectual property and conspired with his international accomplices to illegally profit at Apple's expense.

He's not a "kid" he's a criminal.

WRONG. You don't know law, this is tort, not a criminal offense. If anything saying he IS a criminal is libelous on your part.

I have zero sympathy for apple or any big company. A lot of their ideas and patents are not their own and they use the law and lobby to make the law to benefit their interests.

The biggest source of apple's product clone and infringement issues are from people in china making knock offs. No way do they have the ability to catch those nameless people and if they do the next guy will take their place. Seems to easy to target a tiny USA reseller and push them around.

UrsaMajor
May 28, 2011, 08:23 PM
Thanks for not being like everybody else and glorifying this POS. If he broke the law, which it sounds like he did, he should get what's coming to him. As a teen, his parents should pay too. Making these punks sound like entrepreneurs is typical of our society today and it shows what a total lack of ethical and moral compass will get you.

I really don't care. We saw an entire banking industry break the law and no one went to jail and any fines paid were a fraction of the Ill gotten profits they made.

Law does not equal morals or ethics. Law is often a tool used by business to profit and get their way.

Apple shareholders should be pissed that the company is wasting legal resources, money and time on issues like this.

One very valid last point to make is apple using the name iPhone. iPhone was owned by cisco and apple decided to use the name anyway and later made a settlement. If apple could do no wrong, shouldn't they have asked permission and worked a deal before just running out to the public and get sued by cisco?

BobbyCarbn
May 29, 2011, 09:16 AM
IMO, Apple is doing one of two things, maybe a combination of both. I did not read every post, so forgive me if someone covered this angle. Apple is trying to do the right thing and go after anyone that uses their trademark without permission and...Apple does not want to find themselves in the same mess as Sony with the Geohot lawsuit. The last thing Apple needs now is to have Anonymous or some other hacktivist group start poking at their armor. To date, Sony has been hacked 9 times since April 2011 and will have to deal with an estimated 174 million (which I think is really low) in damages, data breach notification costs and lost sales. They have not even put a price tag on the damage that has been done to the Sony brand yet. That figure alone could add up to billions.

So...Apple will let this kid have his 80k or so and give him a stern talking to.

DeanSolecki
May 29, 2011, 12:10 PM
IMO, Apple is doing one of two things, maybe a combination of both. I did not read every post, so forgive me if someone covered this angle. Apple is trying to do the right thing and go after anyone that uses their trademark without permission and...Apple does not want to find themselves in the same mess as Sony with the Geohot lawsuit. The last thing Apple needs now is to have Anonymous or some other hacktivist group start poking at their armor. To date, Sony has been hacked 9 times since April 2011 and will have to deal with an estimated 174 million (which I think is really low) in damages, data breach notification costs and lost sales. They have not even put a price tag on the damage that has been done to the Sony brand yet. That figure alone could add up to billions.

So...Apple will let this kid have his 80k or so and give him a stern talking to.

I don't know if apple is "trying to do the right thing" although excluding that your thinking seems reasonable. Apple isn't the worst at marketing, after all.

UrsaMajor
May 29, 2011, 12:43 PM
Apples legal team is doing what they are paid and meant to do, protect their intellectual property rights. If you hold patents and trademarks you must tackle people and companies that infringe on them.

That's why many small companies and individual inventors may get pushed around or their ideas taken and patented by someone else, because they don't have deep pockets for legal issues. Put yourself in the invetors shoes - What's to stop some company in china from stealing your widget idea and selling it on eBay? Do have the lawyers to stop them? Would it eat away all of your profit?

But what I do see clear is apple nor other companies have resources to stop the infringement at it's source, foreign factories. Too much of a language, legal and cultural barrier to stop them.

scoobydoo99
May 29, 2011, 01:56 PM
WRONG. You don't know law, this is tort, not a criminal offense. If anything saying he IS a criminal is libelous on your part.


You really shouldn't bring up issues that you obviously do not comprehend. The perp broke a variety of criminal laws, but you might start by reading the US Code;

ァ 506. Criminal offenses

(a) Criminal Infringement.

(1) In general. Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

Additionally, there are various other criminal offenses committed when the individual conspired with others (the sellers in China) and brought the infringing goods into the US from international origins. Distribution via the internet also opens up various interstate commerce violations.

Your ill-formed argument only highlights your ignorance.

DeanSolecki
May 29, 2011, 02:24 PM
You really shouldn't bring up issues that you obviously do not comprehend. The perp broke a variety of criminal laws, but you might start by reading the US Code;

ァ 506. Criminal offenses

(a) Criminal Infringement.

(1) In general. Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

Additionally, there are various other criminal offenses committed when the individual conspired with others (the sellers in China) and brought the infringing goods into the US from international origins. Distribution via the internet also opens up various interstate commerce violations.

Your ill-formed argument only highlights your ignorance.

It hasn't been demonstrated that he willfully infringed the copyright. The fact that he stopped upon request demonstrates the opposite. I don't know why you assume guilt preemptively when nothing has suggested it. Where's all the hate coming from?

Just saying "your ignorant" doesn't make it so. Michael Jackson used to do that and he wasn't exactly a rhodes scholar.

blipper
May 29, 2011, 04:37 PM
You really shouldn't bring up issues that you obviously do not comprehend. The perp broke a variety of criminal laws, but you might start by reading the US Code;

ァ 506. Criminal offenses

(a) Criminal Infringement.

(1) In general. Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed

Your ill-formed argument only highlights your ignorance.

The fact is that the story is about a civil lawsuit for trademark infringement, not a criminal case for copyright infringement.

Monty88
May 29, 2011, 05:32 PM
So, all expenses paid trip to NY? Nice.



?

Yeah, maybe apple will reimburse him for the $2.25 metrocard trip he'll pay going from Queens to Manhattan.

shadowjeff
May 29, 2011, 08:53 PM
Don't get why you guys are calling him a dufus/punk by looking at his replies.

Kid is most probably an immigrant from China which means he doesn't have decent English.

Legion93
May 29, 2011, 10:05 PM
Kid is most probably an immigrant from China which means he doesn't have decent English.

Really? And the source? Or was that just sarcasm?

scoobydoo99
May 29, 2011, 10:11 PM
The fact is that the story is about a civil lawsuit for trademark infringement, not a criminal case for copyright infringement.

Never said it was. In my OP, i called the guy that did it a "criminal" and was challenged by someone who claimed that what he did WASN'T criminal. I was just responding with the facts. Copyright infringement is a criminal offense, regardless of what Apple may have pursued in the case.

blipper
May 29, 2011, 11:03 PM
Never said it was. In my OP, i called the guy that did it a "criminal" and was challenged by someone who claimed that what he did WASN'T criminal. I was just responding with the facts. Copyright infringement is a criminal offense, regardless of what Apple may have pursued in the case.

Where's the copyright infringement --- I see possible trademark infringement (though not reaching criminal level standards)?

ggibson913
May 30, 2011, 06:22 AM
In an interview, the interviewer noticed that Steve Wozniak had a white iPhone 4. When asked how he got one he said he bought one off of this kid and the company should leave him alone. Is Apple going to sue one of their co-founders too? Leave the kid alone, Apple didn't have a white iPhone, he found a way to supply one and meet a demand. I say good for him.

Even if he meets with apple's lawyers, I doubt Apple will take any money from him.

DakotaGuy
May 31, 2011, 08:21 AM
In an interview, the interviewer noticed that Steve Wozniak had a white iPhone 4. When asked how he got one he said he bought one off of this kid and the company should leave him alone. Is Apple going to sue one of their co-founders too? Leave the kid alone, Apple didn't have a white iPhone, he found a way to supply one and meet a demand. I say good for him.

Even if he meets with apple's lawyers, I doubt Apple will take any money from him.

Although I do believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty if the facts remain then Apple should take this kid for everything they can. This kid appeared to be profiting handsomely from selling unauthorized Apple parts. If Apple and it's legal team makes an example of this kid then it will discourage others from doing the same in the future. Now if the court case proves the kid did nothing wrong then so be it, but for now the facts are stacked against him. No money for a lawyer? Cry me a river. He should have thought about the legal implications before he ever sold the first kit. He knew that Apple likes to litigate and has a powerful legal team. If he was smart enough to arrange the supply, sales, and distribution of these kits he was smart enough to know it wasn't legal.

ggibson913
May 31, 2011, 09:25 AM
Although I do believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty if the facts remain then Apple should take this kid for everything they can. This kid appeared to be profiting handsomely from selling unauthorized Apple parts. If Apple and it's legal team makes an example of this kid then it will discourage others from doing the same in the future. Now if the court case proves the kid did nothing wrong then so be it, but for now the facts are stacked against him. No money for a lawyer? Cry me a river. He should have thought about the legal implications before he ever sold the first kit. He knew that Apple likes to litigate and has a powerful legal team. If he was smart enough to arrange the supply, sales, and distribution of these kits he was smart enough to know it wasn't legal.

I question the illegality of what he did. I am kind of old fashioned and am a firm believer in once I pay you money to purchase something from you, that item becomes my property and I am able to do whatever I want with it. This kid wasn't selling white iPhones, if he was I would agree with Apple's actions, this was not the case here. He was selling a conversion kit where someone who had already bought an iPhone from Apple could modify it to be a white iPhone. The courts have already upheld our right to jailbreak an iPhone, shouldn't that same principle apply here? Remember, he wasn't selling iPhones, just a kit to convert the glass outside layer to white. I see nothing wrong with that. If anything, I could see Apple going after the manufacturer who sold these to the kid.

Mal
May 31, 2011, 01:07 PM
I question the illegality of what he did. I am kind of old fashioned and am a firm believer in once I pay you money to purchase something from you, that item becomes my property and I am able to do whatever I want with it. This kid wasn't selling white iPhones, if he was I would agree with Apple's actions, this was not the case here. He was selling a conversion kit where someone who had already bought an iPhone from Apple could modify it to be a white iPhone. The courts have already upheld our right to jailbreak an iPhone, shouldn't that same principle apply here? Remember, he wasn't selling iPhones, just a kit to convert the glass outside layer to white. I see nothing wrong with that. If anything, I could see Apple going after the manufacturer who sold these to the kid.

Read the article again. He wasn't selling kits, he was selling actual Apple parts (probably factory rejects). They were not available for sale via any legal party, so therefore they were obtained illegally. He may have been unaware of that fact, but it is his responsibility to inform himself of those matters. I don't suspect there's any way he didn't know it was illegal to receive and resell those parts, however. They were, in essence, stolen goods, even if it was the result of a worker in one of Apple's factories selling them, because they were, and still are, Apple's property.

jW

GREEN4U
May 31, 2011, 01:47 PM
Doesn't this kid live in China? Why don't he just hide there? 1.3 billion people. I think he's safe.

Legion93
May 31, 2011, 04:22 PM
I fear Apple will soon file a lawsuit against my name due to "copyright infringement".

Quick, run! Apple is trying to take over the world!

BC2009
Jun 1, 2011, 12:56 PM
How the hell would you know the parts were stolen? If they are legally purchased with proof of purchase such as a receipt Apple cannot do anything apart from file a lawsuit against the supplier that sold the parts.

Its pretty obvious that Apple does not sell the unused parts to products they never released. When purchasing products from such a seller most states put the burden on the buyer to determine if the purchased product was indeed stolen. That is what got Gizmodo in trouble with the iPhone, though they claimed some sort of "journalist exemption" defense.