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MacRumors
May 28, 2011, 06:39 PM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/28/samsungs-lawyers-demand-to-see-iphone-and-ipad-3/)


http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/2011-05-28samap-500x253.jpg

(http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/2011-05-28samap.jpg)
Thisismynext (http://thisismynext.com/2011/05/28/samsung-apple-iphone-5-ipad-3/) points out that Samsung has filed a motion Friday night asking Apple to turn over the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 as part of the discovery process in the ongoing Samsung/Apple legal feud.Samsung claims that it needs to see Apple’s future products because devices like the Droid Charge and Galaxy Tab 10.1 will presumably be in the market at the same time as the iPhone 5 and iPad 3, and Samsung’s lawyers want to evaluate any possible similarities so they can prepare for further potential legal action from Apple.The demand comes after (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/24/apple-granted-access-to-unreleased-samsung-hardware-in-patent-suit/) Apple's lawyers were granted access to Samsung's upcoming devices.

To be clear, access on each side is restricted to the lawyers involved and not any of the engineers from either company. Thisismynext believes this is just a calculated gamble for additional leverage, and that the whole motion sounds strange and based on many assumptions. That means talks have been at a standstill for a long time now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Samsung was trying to put some additional heat on Apple to try and kick negotiations back into gear. Apple filed suit (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-targets-samsung-with-new-lawsuit-over-galaxy-line/) against Samsung over its Galaxy line of hardware and similarities to the iPhone and iPad lines.

Article Link: Samsung's Lawyers Demand to See iPhone and iPad 3 (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/28/samsungs-lawyers-demand-to-see-iphone-and-ipad-3/)



TheOrioles33
May 28, 2011, 06:42 PM
Show me yours and I'll show you mine!! LOL!!

Mjmar
May 28, 2011, 06:43 PM
This is getting juicy

iJays
May 28, 2011, 06:49 PM
wanna bet that Apple will now drop the initial charges :p

Glideslope
May 28, 2011, 06:50 PM
Show me yours and I'll show you mine!! LOL!!

ROFLMAO. You are Soooo correct. :apple:

wanna bet that Apple will now drop the initial charges :p

Want to loose some $? ;)

*LTD*
May 28, 2011, 06:52 PM
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Weak.

Really, Samsung?

You were already ordered to produce your knockoffs to Apple. THIS is your response??

Cartaphilus
May 28, 2011, 06:53 PM
I can understand that Apple needs to see what Samsung is going to be releasing to determine if those products as well infringe on Apple's IP rights, but what could be Samsung's legal argument for seeing what Apple is working on? I assume the judge accepts, tacitly or otherwise, that Apple has a plausible case that Samsung's current products infringe, but Samsung hasn't made concomitant allegations against Apple. Any practitioners have any thoughts?

ChristianJapan
May 28, 2011, 06:53 PM
getting childish ... from both sides ...

Apple could be confident enough and a bit proud of to be the master template for others.

hlfway2anywhere
May 28, 2011, 06:54 PM
Haha. Good for Samsung. Very smart response. Obviously I still side with apple here, but i think they could use a taste of their own arrogance once in awhile.

dreamworks21
May 28, 2011, 06:54 PM
Honestly, we just want it for legality's sake. Trust us!

wordoflife
May 28, 2011, 06:55 PM
Haha .. good luck with that Samsung. You are really going to need it. Apple doesn't show their stuff under any circumstances.

barberio
May 28, 2011, 06:55 PM
Hard for them to push for this, since Apple were seeking disclosure access to announced and advertised devices, while Samsung are seeking access to devices they are theorising must exist. Basically, Apple can say they are working with various prototypes, but have no set device yet, and no one can say anything otherwise. Apple's tight-lipped refusal to confirm they're ever working on a new model works in their favour here.

javaGuru
May 28, 2011, 06:58 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Was this request before or after samsung's lawyers searched local bars close to Apple? :)

Matthew Yohe
May 28, 2011, 06:58 PM
Haha. Good for Samsung. Very smart response. Obviously I still side with apple here, but i think they could use a taste of their own arrogance once in awhile.

Is it a smart response? Apple requested hardware that was already publicly demoed. Samsung is requesting non public hardware.

iJays
May 28, 2011, 06:58 PM
Want to loose some $? ;)

you win some...you loose some :D

maclancer
May 28, 2011, 06:58 PM
Samsung is a loser... Bunch of morons.

lilo777
May 28, 2011, 07:00 PM
Hard for them to push for this, since Apple were seeking disclosure access to announced and advertised devices, while Samsung are seeking access to devices they are theorising must exist. Basically, Apple can say they are working with various prototypes, but have no set device yet, and no one can say anything otherwise. Apple's tight-lipped refusal to confirm they're ever working on a new model works in their favour here.

So, Apple is going to say to judge (under oath) that they do not have a prototype of iPhone 5 yet, right? They are not stupid. They may try to refuse on some other ground but not by lying.

shigzeo
May 28, 2011, 07:00 PM
This is the same Samsung that hires its ex-CEO who resigned after tax evasion. Samsung don't do things legally in Korea, so maybe they try to pull their sox up whilst abroad.

The show me yours stuff? I don't like it, but it's the way it is. I wish someone would be able to break Samsung's haughtiness. But no company is large enough to tackle every breech of trust that Samsung have set up.

Nemokrad
May 28, 2011, 07:01 PM
Apple could potentially really lose out here because even though just the lawyers will see the future products, they would still relay the info to Samsung's people and they could gain a competitive advantage by being to market with the same features as Apple at the same time. Hopefully the court sees it this way too.

Repo
May 28, 2011, 07:01 PM
Samsung's lawyers want to evaluate any possible similarities so they can prepare for further potential legal action from Apple.

Come on Samsung, don't be so obvious. >_>

MH01
May 28, 2011, 07:01 PM
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Weak.

Really, Samsung?

You were already ordered to produce your knockoffs to Apple. THIS is your response??

Yup, predicatble and very weak response as per every thread since 2009....

gnasher729
May 28, 2011, 07:02 PM
Doesn't make sense. Apple doesn't sue because Samsung makes phones that look like an iPhone. Apple sues because Samsung makes phones that look exactly like the Apple's design patents. Either there are design patents, then Samsung needs to look at those, or there are none, then Apple hasn't protected their design and it is free to copy.

barberio
May 28, 2011, 07:03 PM
This is akin to putting "The President of the United States on January 21st 2013" on your Witness list. Sure, it's quite likely that person will be Barack Obama, but there's no way the court can accept such a submission because it can't predict the future.

Apple simply have to say they have no set plans for an iPhone 5 or iPhone 4GS yet, and the court isn't in a position to say otherwise.

Kentochan
May 28, 2011, 07:05 PM
Kinda defeats the purpose of Apple suing Samsung in the first place...

joeviddy
May 28, 2011, 07:07 PM
Actually the pool of people that will have access to said devices could, most likely would, be more than suggested.

At the very least Samsung's pool of experts witnesses will have access to review and examine the devices. Depending on how the judge rules, it could be produced and stored at opposing counsel (with the potential for hefty security) or just examined at Apple's facilities.

Also, if stored at opposing counsel, the likelihood that paralegal and support staff having access to the device increases significantly.

palmerc2
May 28, 2011, 07:07 PM
Samsung should really stick to making TVs...in my opinion they're the best on the market. Phones + Tablets may be out of their league.

shanmugam
May 28, 2011, 07:07 PM
this one of the reason, apple is looking at Intel for manufacturing ARM Chips ...

well until Intel starts copying Apple and releasing prototypes phones :D

who is copying copy who?

joeviddy
May 28, 2011, 07:09 PM
Apple could potentially really lose out here because even though just the lawyers will see the future products, they would still relay the info to Samsung's people and they could gain a competitive advantage by being to market with the same features as Apple at the same time. Hopefully the court sees it this way too.

Actually, if that happened there would be severe penalties imposed on counsel. I don't think they would do that. These people are smart and respectable.

shanmugam
May 28, 2011, 07:09 PM
i really hope this stops now and both companies go back to produce good products ...

Apple never going to be in the low end of the market whether it is PC, Phone or iPad(s)...

you need other plays like Samsung, HTC and others to manufacture for the lower end of the market ...

iGobbleoff
May 28, 2011, 07:09 PM
its like they are admitting they are copying apple

"ok, so we copied iphone4 and ipad2, but can we see iphone5 and ipad3 just in case we do it again?"

InsanelyApple
May 28, 2011, 07:10 PM
Oh, dear.

"Sometimes corporations remind me of little kids arguing on the playground. Except more than lunch money is involved."--Doctor Q

paintblock
May 28, 2011, 07:15 PM
Really makes me wish I was a lawyer.

MCIowaRulz
May 28, 2011, 07:15 PM
Makes me sorry I own a Samsung anything...:(

2 TV's, A Laptop and a digital camera.

0815
May 28, 2011, 07:17 PM
They want to see the prototype so that they can prepare to defend against possible law suits from Apple ???? I mean, if they wanted to sue Apple that would make sense ...

Ok, I'm torn between thinking that is childish or genius ... on one hand it looks like that have no arguments what so ever and just want to scream back, but on the other hand they might want to show that apple sues for no reason, so they want to prepare ...

Don Kosak
May 28, 2011, 07:19 PM
Well, there is a big cultural difference as well here. It's probably not as simple as some folks are interpreting this.

Having worked for a Korean company for quite a number of years, there are big differences in approaches for business and legal matters. Korea has a rich culture and if you look back in history they've had well organized bureaucracies for hundreds of years. Their legal precedents are different than ours.

devilstrider
May 28, 2011, 07:20 PM
Smart. We all know if apple see's something nice they are going to copy it somehow.

lilo777
May 28, 2011, 07:21 PM
Samsung should really stick to making TVs...in my opinion they're the best on the market. Phones + Tablets may be out of their league.

Yeah, their phones are total failure even though according to Unwired View (http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/27/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-outselling-iphone-4-in-the-uk/) "Launched in the UK earlier this month, the new Samsung Galaxy S II has quickly become the country’s most popular smartphone. Just like we told you it happened in South Korea, the Galaxy S II is outselling Apple’s iPhone 4 in the UK, too."

toddybody
May 28, 2011, 07:22 PM
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Weak.

Really, Samsung?

You were already ordered to produce your knockoffs to Apple. THIS is your response??

Youre joking right? This is total tit for tat...after Apple's allowance to review unreleased Samsung HW. Oh, but it was Apple the first time...so you didnt care.

I dont think either party has a legitimate claim to each other's unreleased products. If the next Galaxy Phone infringes on Apple copyrights(or vice versa), seek damages accordingly.

Alchematron
May 28, 2011, 07:25 PM
I will watch this case unfold on my Samsung TV and Apple iPad at the same time. :D

BLACKFRIDAY
May 28, 2011, 07:25 PM
Youre joking right? This is total tit for tat...after Apple's allowance to review unreleased Samsung HW. Oh, but it was Apple the first time...so you didnt care.

I dont think either party has a legitimate claim to each other's unreleased products. If the next Galaxy Phone infringes on Apple copyrights(or vice versa), seek damages accordingly.

Please read the article again.

Consultant
May 28, 2011, 07:27 PM
Dear Samsung simpletons,

Apple isn't advertising iPhone 5 or iPad 3, nor copying your product designs wholesale.

Lotso
May 28, 2011, 07:27 PM
Ha! Good luck!

wordoflife
May 28, 2011, 07:27 PM
That's pretty low. And does Samsung think that Apple is going to copy Samsung's design that was criticized for copying Apple in the first place?

0815
May 28, 2011, 07:29 PM
Youre joking right? This is total tit for tat...after Apple's allowance to review unreleased Samsung HW. Oh, but it was Apple the first time...so you didnt care.

I dont think either party has a legitimate claim to each other's unreleased products. If the next Galaxy Phone infringes on Apple copyrights(or vice versa), seek damages accordingly.

There is one big difference:

case1: Apple wants to see Samsung hardware to proof that they copy stuff (best on iPhone4/iPad2)

case2: Samsung wants to see Apple hardware to prepare to defend a potential law suit by Apple that Samsung is copying Apple (based on iPhone5/iPad3)

case1 is very typical if a company wants to proof copy cats - case2 is very unusual and either funny or genius (to make the point that case1 is pointless)

ten-oak-druid
May 28, 2011, 07:29 PM
LOL

Samsung wants to avoid having to "rethink" their next products.

It is a shame Apple has to do this. The galaxy tablet is failed product. Why would anyone expect version 2 to be a success? I guess if they can see the next model ipad and get a head start then version 3 might have a chance.

domness
May 28, 2011, 07:35 PM
Although childish, I'm not surprised. I'd want to have a look into Apple's products before they are released ;) In all seriousness, I suppose Samsung are just a bit annoyed seen as their product really isn't a "rip of the iPhone", just a better spec product. Maybe Apple are just annoyed that Google sided with Samsung for the Nexus.

0815
May 28, 2011, 07:35 PM
One question, if only 'external lawyers' are allowed to the the prototypes of 'the other' company - how the hell do those lawyers decide what was copied or not - I would assume those have not the technical background and company internal information to make an educated decision, I mean, a more technical person with internal knowledge from each company would be required for that - but that person would no longer be allowed to work on the new version ....

hayesk
May 28, 2011, 07:36 PM
Haha. Good for Samsung. Very smart response. Obviously I still side with apple here, but i think they could use a taste of their own arrogance once in awhile.

No, it's a pretty stupid response. Samsung has already publicly discussed and demoed their products.

marksman
May 28, 2011, 07:42 PM
This is going to be a good made-for-tv movie some day. It is all so funny.

LOL.

joeviddy
May 28, 2011, 07:43 PM
One question, if only 'external lawyers' are allowed to the the prototypes of 'the other' company - how the hell do those lawyers decide what was copied or not - I would assume those have not the technical background and company internal information to make an educated decision, I mean, a more technical person with internal knowledge from each company would be required for that - but that person would no longer be allowed to work on the new version ....

Most of these IP Lawyers have backgrounds in the technology. Some have PhDs and JDs. Outside Counsel is almost a pre-requisite for this type of litigation. Internal Counsel supervise the work, but the outside counsel does all of the analysis with experts. There is no disclosure on infringement, just that they are pursuing it.

wordoflife
May 28, 2011, 07:43 PM
Samsung should really stick to making TVs...in my opinion they're the best on the market. Phones + Tablets may be out of their league.

Yeah, their phones are total failure even though according to Unwired View (http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/27/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-outselling-iphone-4-in-the-uk/) "Launched in the UK earlier this month, the new Samsung Galaxy S II has quickly become the country’s most popular smartphone. Just like we told you it happened in South Korea, the Galaxy S II is outselling Apple’s iPhone 4 in the UK, too."

I respectfully disagree about the phone part. Remember that they've been making phones forever so there's no real reason why they should stop now. They just need to do some more work on their phones with timely updates and their own unique design/UI. They have pretty decent specs if you come to think about it (SAMOLED+, fast processors, etc).

However, I think they should probably stop making tablets. Honestly, how many do they sell? Like 10 with 5 returns? I can't blame them for trying though because they wouldn't know what they are and aren't capable of.

http://www.okokchina.com/Files/uppic6/refurbished%20mobile%20phone%20SAMSUNG%20R220473.jpg

Bernard SG
May 28, 2011, 07:43 PM
They demand it, but it seems very unlikely they get it.

Frisco
May 28, 2011, 07:47 PM
HTC and Samsung also offer very high end phones which are superior to the ageing iphone, such as the Sensation and Galaxy 2.

Get real :rolleyes: iPhone is 10 years ahead of both of those phones.

devilstrider
May 28, 2011, 07:49 PM
Get real :rolleyes: iPhone is 10 years ahead of both of those phones.

lol are you serious?

Heijtink
May 28, 2011, 07:49 PM
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It's about the idea. If Apple made the case that they can prove it only or more obvious by unannounced Samsung products. Then Samsung can make the argument, for reason of defense, that they need to see Apple's future products.

wordoflife
May 28, 2011, 07:49 PM
Get real :rolleyes: iPhone is 10 years ahead of both of those phones.

Now I don't entirely agree that the Sensation and GSII is superior to the iPhone 4 in all respect, the iPhone 4 is certainly not 10 years ahead of both of these phones.

mdriftmeyer
May 28, 2011, 07:50 PM
They won't get the authorization to do so.

vicorly
May 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
Apple to Samsung's Lawyers: Suck It. :cool:

lilo777
May 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
Get real :rolleyes: iPhone is 10 years ahead of both of those phones.

Let me repeat: "Launched in the UK earlier this month, the new Samsung Galaxy S II has quickly become the country’s most popular smartphone.

Just like we told you it happened in South Korea, the Galaxy S II is outselling Apple’s iPhone 4 in the UK, too"

This was reported by Unwired View (http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/27/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-outselling-iphone-4-in-the-uk/). One can expect that once S2 is released in US it'll be more popular than iPhone 4 too.

shigzeo
May 28, 2011, 07:53 PM
It makes sense as a business ethic for Samsung. They started business doing groceries, and quickly acquired others, buying out competitors, and technology and manufacturing processes.

Samsung aren't a 'do this one thing' company anymore. You Americans and Europeans know them as an electronics company making TV's and microwaves. They make everything from apartments to cars to oranges and life insurance.

So, when they have a legal team do this, it is from experience. Samsung are a muuuuuuch older company than Apple, much more connected in the world, much larger, and much much more political. If Apple thinks they are up against another tech company, they need to do some research.

Again, Samsung re-hired a CEO who is known for tax-evation and they sue people for political cartoons. Apple may not be ready for Samsung's legal prowess.

yourstation
May 28, 2011, 07:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Weak.

Really, Samsung?

You were already ordered to produce your knockoffs to Apple. THIS is your response??

Exactly. Samsung off.

lilo777
May 28, 2011, 07:54 PM
Apple to Samsung's Lawyers: Suck It. :cool:

The request is made to judge not the Apple layer and if the judge approves the request (as he did for similar request from Apple) Apple will have no choice but to comply.

GregA
May 28, 2011, 07:54 PM
a sample of the final, commercial version of the next generation iPad

I wonder when Apple will actually have a final commercial version of their next generation iPad?

Hardware wise it's probably 3 months before release? Software wise perhaps a couple of weeks?

Apple isn't advertising iPhone 5 or iPad 3

True. And for all we know iPad3 could be coming out next July.

case2: Samsung wants to see Apple hardware to prepare to defend a potential law suit by Apple that Samsung is copying Apple (based on iPhone5/iPad3)

In defence of Samsung (& thousands of companies in similar positions), it's a shame that if a company designs some amazing product or feature, but another firm already has designed that same product/feature and NO-ONE KNOWS about it, that the company isn't allowed to release it because it's considered copying this novel design that they'd never have come up with had they not seen the other product.

Not saying that's the case with Samsung, just annoyed at patents.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 28, 2011, 07:59 PM
The request is made to judge not the Apple layer and if the judge approves the request (as he did for similar request from Apple) Apple will have no choice but to comply.

That is the crux; but surprisingly I cannot see Apple losing this.

Apple can simply say: No. :|

We ain't making iPhone 5 or iPad 3.

Even if Apple decides in the future to name the iPhone, iPhone 4S and iPad 2S, Samsung's request is proved to be void and things can continue normally.

The request from Samsung is so weird. It's like:

'Please let us peek into Apple's R&D so we can see what's going on and shape our products so that we don't copy them'.

I mean, is that even a request?

lilo777
May 28, 2011, 08:01 PM
That is the crux; but surprisingly I cannot see Apple losing this.

Apple can simply say: No. :|

We ain't making iPhone 5 or iPad 3.

Even if Apple decides in the future to name the iPhone, iPhone 4S and iPad 2S, Samsung's request is proved to be void and things can continue normally.

The request from Samsung is so weird. It's like:

'Please let us peek into Apple's R&D so we can see what's going on and shape our products so that we don't copy them'.

I mean, is that even a request?

It's clear that Samsung is mocking Apple. This can't hurt them.

ECUpirate44
May 28, 2011, 08:01 PM
Steve Jobs- "over my dead body" lol.

SiriusExcelsior
May 28, 2011, 08:01 PM
If Apple made the case that they can prove it only or more obvious by unannounced Samsung products.

Problem is, the products Apple wanted to see were already announced and demo'd by Samsung, so there's really not as much issue here with NDAs; Apple (I assume) just wanted a closer, more detailed look at those products.

On the other hand, Samsung is asking to look at products, that, for all intents and purposes, don't exist yet..
Until Apple is made to swear before a judge under oath, that is :rolleyes:

Personally I think this whole thing is quite comical.. as someone put it, like kids fighting in a playground :)

ouimetnick
May 28, 2011, 08:07 PM
Does Samsung want to see Apple's designs so they can copy it? :p

Or to rush a half assed knock off, and claim to the public that Apple copied them when Apple announces the next gen iPhone and iPad?:rolleyes:

Repo
May 28, 2011, 08:12 PM
Steve Jobs- "over my dead body" lol.

His health is failing...

Michael Scrip
May 28, 2011, 08:14 PM
All Apple has to say is:

"The iPhone 4S will look identical to the iPhone 4"

What will Samsung do then?

likegadgets
May 28, 2011, 08:15 PM
What's good for the goose is good for the gander

erzhik
May 28, 2011, 08:19 PM
Haha .. good luck with that Samsung. You are really going to need it. Apple doesn't show their stuff under any circumstances.

They don't show it to tech blogs. If court orders them to show it, they will have to show it. But it won't be shown publicly, it will be shown to lawyers. This is a simple but smart move, it will allow them to go back to negotiations table, because knowing that Apple was granted access to Samsung hardware, same way Samsung will be granted Apple's hardware, and Apple won't risk it so they will agree to go back to negotiating. Simple bluff.

And all you ifans who think that Samsung only wants to see it so they can copy, you should really think before posting. It's not hard. Samsung tech's won't be allowed access, only lawyers will be allowed access and only with presence of Apple's lawyers.

WiiDSmoker
May 28, 2011, 08:21 PM
It's like Apple can do no wrong in everyone's eyes here. It's really sickening.

AppleScruff1
May 28, 2011, 08:26 PM
Samsung is a loser... Bunch of morons.

And what does that say about Apple doing billions of dollars worth of business with them?

ikeywah
May 28, 2011, 08:27 PM
This is getting ridiculous!

They can't say that they all don't copy each other now. If they were busy innovating or writing some software to win the hearts of the customer this wouldn't be necessary.

ZMacintosh
May 28, 2011, 08:32 PM
Sammy you're pushing your luck....you're about to get your ass handed back to you in a million pieces....lmao, wow these folks just dont know when to quit.

*LTD*
May 28, 2011, 08:34 PM
Neither product officially exists at the moment.

In the meantime Apple has already been granted access to current and/or existing Samsung product(s).

And what does that say about Apple doing billions of dollars worth of business with them?

Completely different divisions. Samsung is under contract with Apple.

It's like Apple can do no wrong in everyone's eyes here. It's really sickening.

Well, when they *do* do wrong, I'm sure we'll hear of it.

Apple's more or less been doing everything right for a few years now. I'm not sure why you find that so objectionable.

skier777
May 28, 2011, 08:37 PM
You know, if all of this legal stuff went away, companies would have to produce products that kept up with the development of technology to remain competitive. Now they can just sue each other and hold back on releasing what scientists are capable of producing in order to keep the prices for parts low and the retail prices of products high...

*LTD*
May 28, 2011, 08:40 PM
You know, if all of this legal stuff went away, companies would have to produce products that kept up with the development of technology to remain competitive. Now they can just sue each other and hold back on releasing what scientists are capable of producing in order to keep the prices for parts low and the retail prices of products high...

IP theft happens. It needs to be addressed somehow.

AppleScruff1
May 28, 2011, 08:40 PM
Neither product officially exists at the moment.

In the meantime Apple has already been granted access to current and/or existing Samsung product(s).



Completely different divisions. Samsung is under contract with Apple.

The post I quoted said "Samsung is a loser... Bunch of morons." In response this most insightful post, I asked the one who posted it what does it infer about Apple for doing billions of dollars a year business with them. And Apple is under contract with Samsung.

kalex
May 28, 2011, 08:41 PM
Haha .. good luck with that Samsung. You are really going to need it. Apple doesn't show their stuff under any circumstances.
You'll be surprised how persuasive judges and courts can be


Show me yours and I'll show you mine!! LOL!!

Haha - Now children settle down and go stand in opposite corners until you come down

Funkymonk
May 28, 2011, 08:42 PM
Haven't read anything but the OP in this thread but let me guess,


you guys are getting offended over what one multi billion dollar corporation is doing to another.

lol typical, some of you guys are sad

Michael Scrip
May 28, 2011, 08:43 PM
Let me repeat: "Launched in the UK earlier this month, the new Samsung Galaxy S II has quickly become the country’s most popular smartphone.

Just like we told you it happened in South Korea, the Galaxy S II is outselling Apple’s iPhone 4 in the UK, too"

This was reported by Unwired View (http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/27/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-outselling-iphone-4-in-the-uk/). One can expect that once S2 is released in US it'll be more popular than iPhone 4 too.

There's always an article written about some new smartphone outselling the iPhone in a certain place for a certain time. I guess it's a great headline for grabbing attention. I seem to recall the same thing happened when the original Galaxy S was launched 6 months ago...
Samsung Galaxy unseats iPhone as No.1 in Japan - Nov 4, 2010 (http://www.9to5mac.com/33855/samsung-galaxy-unseats-iphone-as-no-1-in-japan/)

So what ever became of that?

Hmmmmm... last quarter Apple sold 18 million iPhones and Samsung only sold 10 million smartphones worldwide.

Whoops.

I guess those sensational headlines weren't enough. Maybe the new Galaxy S II will finally rot the Apple... but I doubt it...

There will be a new iPhone in a few months... and the cycle will repeat.

And much like the articles 6 months ago... the article you linked today won't matter that much in the long run...

.

skier777
May 28, 2011, 08:44 PM
The request is made to judge not the Apple layer and if the judge approves the request (as he did for similar request from Apple) Apple will have no choice but to comply.

No, they will have the choice to either comply or to drop the case...
I think samsung throw them a curve ball here and if the judge orders them to hand over the iphones and ipads they will probably do so, but I wouldn't bet on it.

WiiDSmoker
May 28, 2011, 08:45 PM
Sammy you're pushing your luck....you're about to get your ass handed back to you in a million pieces....lmao, wow these folks just dont know when to quit.

I bet if this was Microsoft vs Apple you'd be complaining how Microsoft should stop bullying other companies.

skier777
May 28, 2011, 08:46 PM
IP theft happens. It needs to be addressed somehow.

Agreed, to a point.

My point was that it is in the consumers interest to have vicious competition and companies trying to beat others products and prices. Issues occur when companies stop developing products for fear that others will copy them.

Lennholm
May 28, 2011, 08:50 PM
Get real :rolleyes: iPhone is 10 years ahead of both of those phones.

Wow, have you even seen the Galaxy SII? I'm betting the answer is no.

Well, when they *do* do wrong, I'm sure we'll hear of it.

Apple's more or less been doing everything right for a few years now. I'm not sure why you find that so objectionable.

They have screwed up quite a number of times, I guess your to blind to see that?

caspersoong
May 28, 2011, 09:02 PM
This is madness. Bet that the lawyers must sign a contract on pain of death to see them. If not, I think a great bomb will go off.

Fukui
May 28, 2011, 09:11 PM
It makes sense as a business ethic for Samsung. They started business doing groceries, and quickly acquired others, buying out competitors, and technology and manufacturing processes.

Samsung aren't a 'do this one thing' company anymore. You Americans and Europeans know them as an electronics company making TV's and microwaves. They make everything from apartments to cars to oranges and life insurance.

So, when they have a legal team do this, it is from experience. Samsung are a muuuuuuch older company than Apple, much more connected in the world, much larger, and much much more political. If Apple thinks they are up against another tech company, they need to do some research.

Again, Samsung re-hired a CEO who is known for tax-evation and they sue people for political cartoons. Apple may not be ready for Samsung's legal prowess.
This. And, lets just say Apple is lucky they are an American Company and not a South Korean one...

Chumburro2U
May 28, 2011, 09:20 PM
I'll show you mine, if you show me yours.

cantthinkofone
May 28, 2011, 09:23 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Weak.

Really, Samsung?

You were already ordered to produce your knockoffs to Apple. THIS is your response??

Whats wrong with wanting to see the next iPhone? Apple threw a fit over Samsung and started all this.

ph00ny
May 28, 2011, 09:28 PM
Outside of this litigation, isn't there another patent infringement suit filed by samsung as a retaliation?

Also you guys don't think the timing of this law suit in line with their upcoming release of galaxy s2 in US considered a strategic move by apple? I think there was a recent news about someone from apple visiting samsung to use their new high resolution (2560x1600) 10" tablet/slate screen. I guess this is similar to how the politic is done in real life where you push and pull as needed

edit: Found it
Technology to optimize data transmission
Techniques for reducing power usage during data transmission
3G technology for reducing data-transmission errors
A method of tethering a mobile phone to a PC

Reach9
May 28, 2011, 09:28 PM
Why couldn't Apple just show them an iPhone 4 and an iPad 2, and said that they are planning on making the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 more of internal upgrades?

ph00ny
May 28, 2011, 09:36 PM
Samsung should really stick to making TVs...in my opinion they're the best on the market. Phones + Tablets may be out of their league.

Yes

they should drop every single business outside of making TVs

that includes supplying parts to apple....

jeman
May 28, 2011, 09:40 PM
What is Samsung trying to prove here besides having access to more Apple technology to copy?
Why ape Apple in everything including lawsuit and legal maneuvers?

bruinsrme
May 28, 2011, 09:41 PM
This sounds similar to my last company.
A semiconductor company (company a) was pissed another company (company b) stole so many of their good employees that company a was going to sue for patent infringments and wanted all their design plans of their products.
Company B said absolutely once we get all your product designs so we can specifically see what the infringments were.
Company A backed off.

finkmacunix
May 28, 2011, 09:42 PM
Umm… iPad 2 was released… 2 Months ago… there is no final commercial model of the iPad 3…

WissMAN
May 28, 2011, 09:42 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Man.

Some of these responses were absolutely predictable.

The offenders know who they are.

Full of Win
May 28, 2011, 09:56 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Haha .. good luck with that Samsung. You are really going to need it. Apple doesn't show their stuff under any circumstances.

Sorry, Apple cannot tell a judge to pound sand.

Scarrus
May 28, 2011, 09:59 PM
Hmm, I guess this means, as many people here probably already think or know that Samsung just hasn't got any innovation of its own, or as Steve would put it "They just have no taste" :p

GQB
May 28, 2011, 09:59 PM
Haha. Good for Samsung. Very smart response. Obviously I still side with apple here, but i think they could use a taste of their own arrogance once in awhile.

Huh? Stopping thieves is 'arrogant'?
Samsunb is having to pony up their hardware because they're accused of copying apple. There is no accusation of the reverse.

applesith
May 28, 2011, 10:06 PM
Lame and desperate. Better not happen. Such ************

shigzeo
May 28, 2011, 10:07 PM
Hmm, I guess this means, as many people here probably already think or know that Samsung just hasn't got any innovation of its own, or as Steve would put it "They just have no taste" :p

Oh, they have taste, all right. Most grocery stores in South Korea are owned by Samsung directly or by one of its branch corporations. Everything else, though, is adapted from other companies.

Their car line that failed in the 1990's is being resurrected by Renault and Samsung. What do they use? Nissan chassis for their cars. Their plasma and most of the LCD stuff? bought from Japan.

Cameras, lenses, tech, everything is bought from someone else.

I'm surprised they got their towers up so well around the world. I wonder whose tech they bought for that. Originality just isn't their strain, but... they are so big and so powerful, they have the clout to make anything and everything work and keep naive foreigners from realising just how insidiously they work.

Apple would do good to move away from Samsung's fab, RAM, etc., and invest in other manufacturers. If they don't, I'm afraid Samsung will just buy out those other companies before they have larger investments.

a.gomez
May 28, 2011, 10:10 PM
just funny - guess they both have money to burn on legal fees. if samsung gets this it would be Apple on the short end of the stick - everyone already knew what these things look like

yodaxl7
May 28, 2011, 10:14 PM
Apple's suing Samsung on the way Samsung giving the appearances of the Whiz overlay (native icons: itune and such). Samsung is countersuing on internals like communications. Samsung's request:: DENIED

Yamcha
May 28, 2011, 10:19 PM
lol, I think at this point Samsung is clearly trying to annoy Apple, I was actually taking Samsungs side before, but not this time :P

iRobby
May 28, 2011, 10:19 PM
If Apple is forced to give Samsung advanced final iPhone and iPad products then:


I'm suing also! I wanna see the NEW iPads and iPhones before everyone else !!

puckhead193
May 28, 2011, 10:21 PM
i would quickly construct a fake prototype... :rolleyes:

Glideslope
May 28, 2011, 10:27 PM
This is the same Samsung that hires its ex-CEO who resigned after tax evasion. Samsung don't do things legally in Korea, so maybe they try to pull their sox up whilst abroad.

The show me yours stuff? I don't like it, but it's the way it is. I wish someone would be able to break Samsung's haughtiness. But no company is large enough to tackle every breech of trust that Samsung have set up.

Very well stated. Remember, Apple has it's shredder pointed at the Mobile Division. It is very clear in all the complaints.

Apple and Samsung will continue to work together. Apple's Case against the hardware in the Galaxy 2 is legit, and Samsung has a pants full right now.

They are going to get caught using Apple A5 designs in their chips. They will change the design, and move on. :apple:

NT1440
May 28, 2011, 10:31 PM
They aren't really trying to reveal Apple's upcoming products, they're just trying to force a cross-licensing deal so neither side can start a suit war.

jsf8x
May 28, 2011, 10:34 PM
lolwut?

I don't think Apple is going to like this idea very much

MorphingDragon
May 28, 2011, 10:37 PM
Wow, have you even seen the Galaxy SII? I'm betting the answer is no.


Well he would've if the Phone actually sold in decent numbers or at all where he lives. :rolleyes:

It's all very dependant on country. If its not released it might as well be 10 years behind.

KnightWRX
May 28, 2011, 10:51 PM
Apple's Case against the hardware in the Galaxy 2 is legit

It is ? Have you even seen a Galaxy S2 ? Again, even for the Galaxy S, it depends which model we're talking about. The i9000 ? The Vibrant ? The Captivate ? The Fascinate ? The Epic ?

Apple's case isn't quite so clear cut.

AidenShaw
May 28, 2011, 10:57 PM
Sorry, Apple cannot tell a judge to pound sand.

I'm not at all sorry that Apple can't ignore the courts. ;)

Apple's anti-competitive, near monopolistic abuse of competition needs to be constrained.

MorphingDragon
May 28, 2011, 10:59 PM
The i9000 ? The Vibrant ? The Captivate ? The Fascinate ? The Epic ? .

One thing that slightly jades me about the Android phone market, the bloody naming schemes. No its not that I'm used to model numbers, its just that the naming is starting to become a bit abstract and reeks of "lets brainstorm buzz words".

I want The Song running Android 2.3 for my Birthday. Wait, no maybe I want The Burlesque, or maybe The AWSUM with OMFG UI. :D


I'm not at all sorry that Apple can't ignore the courts. ;)

Apple's anti-competitive, near monopolistic abuse of competition needs to be constrained.

HA! Good luck of that Happening. If there's anything the US is known for, its regulating its markets. :rolleyes:

woocintosh
May 28, 2011, 11:08 PM
Smasung is not a honest company. Have to be careful...

Dr Kevorkian94
May 28, 2011, 11:13 PM
Wow there is no legal argument here, they are doing it out of spite. Maby we might get some "accidentally" leaked images lol (even though that would probably generate moe apple publicity) they might what ot just pisss apple off.

DeathChill
May 28, 2011, 11:14 PM
I'm not at all sorry that Apple can't ignore the courts. ;)

Apple's anti-competitive, near monopolistic abuse of competition needs to be constrained.

What anti-competitive tactics and abuse of competition would that be? (honestly curious)

spraulin
May 28, 2011, 11:20 PM
This Apple vs Samsung feud is really getting quite childish.

I'm no fan of Apple's arrogance however if Samsung would want to stop being hypocritical they would just stop supplying parts to Apple.

Thex1138
May 28, 2011, 11:22 PM
Samsung based its motion on "internet reports" and "Apple's past practice."
Basing a motion on hearsay and speculation, not fact, nor marketed product...
So basing a motion on Macrumors or Cult of Mac isn't exactly a substantial basis...

Samsung wants "the most current version of each to be produced instead." if the actual engineered products arent yet finalized... No engineers allowed... So flip em a prototype... No guts in the phone... Stick on whatever screen... Slamslung agreed to see whatever...

So Samsung needs to see Apple's future products in order to prepare for a potential motion for a preliminary injunction from the company... Um weak argument at most! This is not a sand pit of castles... Where are Samsungs see-all notices to Sony, or HTC so that they don't 'mistakenly' copy their ip...

According to a report, Apple told Samsung earlier this week that any potential motion for a preliminary injunction "would be based on products Apple currently has in the market.".... So Samsung doesn't understand that the action is about products currently in the market... They just want to copy everything...

Samsung argues that it needs to prepare for the products that will actually be in the market when Apple files the motion, since Apple often discontinues its previous products after launching a newer version. The motion also appeals to "fundamental fairness" as a reason for Apple to provide prototypes of its devices.
Fundamental Fairness. - we think is fair that we copy your IP.... And your future IP. Fairness of duplicating IP? And being prepared with cnc machines and manufacturing processes and reverse engineering of software isn't much of a basis of fairness..
:rolleyes:

maclaptop
May 28, 2011, 11:25 PM
This demand brings Apple the Headlines and negative chaos they thrive on. Yet it's just posturing, Apple is a sacred cow in the eyes of far too many. At the end of the day its relatively meaningless. Corruption is everywhere.

Bigdaddyguido
May 28, 2011, 11:30 PM
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I don't understand samsungs reasoning at all. Apple feels samsungs products look conspicuosly like their own, and ask for copies of the prototypes for the infringing models to see if something is fishy (all the prototypes look like apple/competitor products, or, the prototoes suddenly shift in direction after apple releases their product to reflect apple's advances, etc.) if apple has a case, this could prove it, on the other hand, if apple doesn't have a case this would be a great way for sanding to prove it.

Instead, samsung demands prototypes of future apple devices under the apparent guise of not wanting to offend apple's lawyers when their next product releases. All it looks like, is their first reaction is to try and get a sneak peak at apple's products... to commit more infringement?


I don't see how apple's future products could possible effect the case about past products.

iMacThere4Iam
May 28, 2011, 11:31 PM
One would think that a judge would see through this maneuver by Samsung's lawyers, but ya' just never know.

Amazing how much time, effort, and resources go into patent trolling and outright theft of Apple's innovations. Samsung could take a lesson from Microsoft; when you copy something, make sure you copy it in a half-assed way, so as not to arouse suspicion.

DanteMann
May 29, 2011, 12:04 AM
There's never any point in taking sides in all this. All corporations do things that can easily be considered shady, Apple included. So to say Samsung is shady and not even question Apple in the same way would be very short sighted.
I'm more surprised how Americans don't protest and put much needed attention to the big successful American companies that manufacture outside America. You would think these companies would feel some type of responsibility to their own country and the people that it is made of. Especially in these times. :confused:

Michael Scrip
May 29, 2011, 12:14 AM
This is why Apple is suing Samsung...

Samsung even used a sunflower for their Gallery icon.

And why use a flower anyway? Samsung didn't even attempt to look for a better icon for Gallery... they just went ahead and used a sunflower like Apple. That's about as lazy as you can get!

So... tell me again why Apple whould show the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 to Samsung?

http://i.imgur.com/SwkNg.jpg

DanteMann
May 29, 2011, 12:27 AM
This is why Apple is suing Samsung...

Samsung even used a sunflower for their Gallery icon.

And why use a flower anyway? Samsung didn't even attempt to look for a better icon for Gallery... they just went ahead and used a sunflower like Apple. That's about as lazy as you can get!

So... tell me again why Apple whould show the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 to Samsung?

Image (http://i.imgur.com/SwkNg.jpg)

Why do the phones in your post look exactly the same size? they are not the same size. Very misleading. But even so, I can honestly say the Galaxy S does not look to be a copy of the iphone 3gs. But more importantly when you have the 2 phones in your hand they do not even feel the same. The Galaxy S is very obviously taller, wider, thinner and lighter. If feels completely different. Really now, if you only look at pictures, you're not getting the whole picture. A judge will be holding these two phones and using them, I honestly don't think they are as similar as people here want to believe. Phones and tablets are becoming like TVs, they all look similar these days, but it doesn't mean they are copies of each other. Again, I'm not saying one company is right in more ways than the other. Apple has every right to sue if it truly believes they have been copied.

KingCrimson
May 29, 2011, 12:47 AM
Enjoy your iPhone vs Android wars. I'm getting a Nokia with WP7 Mango next year. :D:cool:

ABernardoJr
May 29, 2011, 12:48 AM
^^ The only defense you said was that the hardware was different. I suspect that there was no defense against the rest being similar because everything else looks a bit identical.

KingCrimson
May 29, 2011, 12:49 AM
The only defense you said was that the hardware was different. I suspect that there was no defense against the rest being similar because everything else looks a bit identical.

Apple is suing because Samsung used a flower icon? LOL!

ABernardoJr
May 29, 2011, 12:52 AM
Apple is suing because Samsung used a flower icon? LOL!

... Why did you quote me? Does "everything else" mean a flower icon? Grow up.

lilo777
May 29, 2011, 12:52 AM
Apple is suing because Samsung used a flower icon? LOL!

Samsung is doomed. They will have to use something else from now one. Perhaps some fruit, like apple? :D

CFreymarc
May 29, 2011, 01:00 AM
wanna bet that Apple will now drop the initial charges :p

They can try but Apple has home field advantage here. Also, Apple can easily make the claim that the next generation devices are not complete since they have parallel developments where Steve announces the winner sometimes as a day prior to launch. That is an old old IBM trick a la Watson.

Michael Scrip
May 29, 2011, 01:01 AM
Why do the phones in your post look exactly the same size? they are not the same size. Very misleading.

I didn't put those pictures together.

However... Samsung did create that promotional photo which bears a striking resemblance to the iPhone photo. Was that by accident? I seriously doubt that.

Come on, man... there are an infinite amount of ways you can photograph a phone... why does it look EXACTLY like the iPhone photo?

Apple is suing Samsung based on "look and feel"... from the icons, to box art, and other similarities.

Can Apple trademark that stuff? I dunno... I'm not a trademark attorney.

But if Apple asks Samsung to knock it off... should they?



A judge will be holding these two phones and using them, I honestly don't think they are as similar as people here want to believe.

Again... it's not about holding the phones in your hand... it's about the look and feel of the products and packaging design.

Google image-search "Samsung Galaxy S" and see how many photos come up that look almost identical to the iPhone. That's no accident...

shartypants
May 29, 2011, 01:54 AM
The lawyers are probably all iPhone/iPad owners and just requested that because they would love to brag to their friends that they saw the next gen devices, hehe.

albusseverus
May 29, 2011, 01:56 AM
I kept looking for the punchline. This can't be serious.

It's like someone accused of murder trying to kill one of the police in the interview room.

Talk about handing the case to Apple on a plate… No need to go any further with this. Samsung has demonstrated conclusively that they are utterly unable to grasp what they've done and what they're being accused of.

It's one thing to say to a company, 'You can't ask us to reveal designs, without revealing your designs to us'… unless you're being accused of stealing their designs in the first place. I'm flabbergasted.

This is a joke, right?

CaptainCannabis
May 29, 2011, 01:57 AM
To both apple and samsung - this is starting to be pathetic.

SchneiderMan
May 29, 2011, 02:20 AM
What a bunch of idiots.. They are so worried what Apple will make and do that they always have Apple's innovative design in mind when creating their own products it's just sickening. I bet Apple got a kick out of that and didn't even bother to comply..

Horus
May 29, 2011, 02:23 AM
Man...they must be smoking some heavy doobies.

linked.account
May 29, 2011, 02:28 AM
They are making them funny. How can you demand to see something which does not exist publicly (and also maybe private). Who said to you that Apple is producing those products??? You can not take someone to court before the crime. I think those lawyers haven't done their home works well when they were at school.

Piggie
May 29, 2011, 02:33 AM
The point is, that no one seems to have considered is that companies have projects on the go for a long long time before public release.

Msoft are working on the next xbox, Sony is working on the next ps3 and Samsung will be working on a tablet with tegra 3 and a retina type display for a future device.

Say you are working now on this tegra 3 retina tablet for launch in 6 months time, which is not long at all or even say for launch around next spring.

You then release your tablet possibly just after apple release the ipad3 and everyone says, Samsung copied apple again, lawsuit time.

It's a tablet, it's an oblong thin shape with a touchscreen on one side, cameras and a computer inside running a low power operating system. How different can you make it?

Apple want to see Samsung prototypes fine, then Samsung need to see apple also otherwise they could be accused or copying the next model, if you don't know what the next iPad will be like how can you know now if yours will be almost the same or not?

Mr. Gates
May 29, 2011, 02:40 AM
This all seems childish.

Its no wonder the company who supplied the parts took a few ques from the king.

Mimicry is flattery.

Piggie
May 29, 2011, 02:47 AM
Just be thankful apple didn't invent the motorcar. Otherwise they'd be claiming everyone else was copying them.

Metal body that you get inside a wheel at each corner, foot pedals to contol it, with a handle near you to put on a brake or perhaps change gear with. A circular controller to turn the front wheels.
An engine fitted at the front that runs on gasoline or diesel, flashing lights at each corner to show your direction a button you press to make the horn sound. Rubber blades that move across the screen to clear the water away.

Omg ripp off copycats.

twilson
May 29, 2011, 03:03 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

It's about the idea. If Apple made the case that they can prove it only or more obvious by unannounced Samsung products. Then Samsung can make the argument, for reason of defense, that they need to see Apple's future products.

Except Apple asked for Samsung's publicly demoed hardware. Samsung is asking for Apple hardware which is rumoured to exist, and has NOT been seen publicly (I.e. Prototypes).

What samsung is asking for is a polar opposite to what Apple requested, and if you can't see that, you are way more blinkered than you think you are.

baconroll
May 29, 2011, 03:04 AM
Haha .. good luck with that Samsung. You are really going to need it. Apple doesn't show their stuff under any circumstances.

So Apple are above the law then?

boss.king
May 29, 2011, 03:05 AM
They can try but Apple has home field advantage here. Also, Apple can easily make the claim that the next generation devices are not complete since they have parallel developments where Steve announces the winner sometimes as a day prior to launch. That is an old old IBM trick a la Watson.

What are you talking about? How would it possibly be feasible to develop several entire handsets and marketing campaigns, only to abandon all but one the day before it is announced? They may use several different prototypes in the process of development but they do not pick one "a day prior to launch", they would settle on a final design, and then refine it further, ignoring the others.

twilson
May 29, 2011, 03:08 AM
I wonder when Apple will actually have a final commercial version of their next generation iPad?

Haven't even seen a draft version of the next iPad yet, it's nothing more than speculation.

Yumunum
May 29, 2011, 03:09 AM
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I don't understand samsungs reasoning at all. Apple feels samsungs products look conspicuosly like their own, and ask for copies of the prototypes for the infringing models to see if something is fishy (all the prototypes look like apple/competitor products, or, the prototoes suddenly shift in direction after apple releases their product to reflect apple's advances, etc.) if apple has a case, this could prove it, on the other hand, if apple doesn't have a case this would be a great way for sanding to prove it.

Instead, samsung demands prototypes of future apple devices under the apparent guise of not wanting to offend apple's lawyers when their next product releases. All it looks like, is their first reaction is to try and get a sneak peak at apple's products... to commit more infringement?


I don't see how apple's future products could possible effect the case about past products.

They could be using a tactic that makes a lot of sense: scaring the prosecutor away. They know how secretive Apple is of their stuff. They might expect Apple to back off now.

But hey, who knows.

twilson
May 29, 2011, 03:19 AM
This Apple vs Samsung feud is really getting quite childish.

I'm no fan of Apple's arrogance however if Samsung would want to stop being hypocritical they would just stop supplying parts to Apple.

Stop supplying Apple, and get slapped with a much bigger, costly and more clear cut example of breach of contract suit?

I don't think even Samsung are that stupid. Plus it would hurt their supply chain reputation the world over, as they wouldn't exactly be reliable if they break the contract.

It wouldn't happen, trust me.

twilson
May 29, 2011, 03:28 AM
I didn't put those pictures together.

However... Samsung did create that promotional photo which bears a striking resemblance to the iPhone photo. Was that by accident? I seriously doubt that.

Come on, man... there are an infinite amount of ways you can photograph a phone... why does it look EXACTLY like the iPhone photo?

Apple is suing Samsung based on "look and feel"... from the icons, to box art, and other similarities.

Don't forget the Apple-patented 30-pin dock connector that Samsung ripped off in it's entirety for the Galaxy Tab.

Piggie
May 29, 2011, 03:31 AM
Don't forget the Apple-patented 30-pin dock connector that Samsung ripped off in it's entirety for the Galaxy Tab.

I thought this issue had been laid to rest elsewhere on these forums that this is a long standing connector design, nothing to do with apple?

ssk2
May 29, 2011, 03:31 AM
Regardless of the outcome of this, it could be a huge turning point for the way consumer goods are manufactured and sold.

Are we going to see competitors' lawyers being granted access to all similar products to avoid IP issues? This can only slow down products coming to market, will slow innovation and new design and ultimately, is to the detriment of consumers. Whatever happened to the 'race to market' and trying to get your IP and designs registered first? Where's the desire to move quickly?

FWIW, I don't believe that Apple should have been granted access to Sammy's designs - if they were that confident in breach, they would have sued immediately. Conversely, I REALLY hope Sammy aren't granted access to Apple's new devices.

HBOC
May 29, 2011, 03:31 AM
Hey I admit, the Galaxy line of phones are pretty cool. I am picking one up tomorrow to hold me over until I can get an upgrade from AT&T in September.. (iPhone 4S perhaps..)

Michael Scrip
May 29, 2011, 03:33 AM
Don't forget the Apple-patented 30-pin dock connector that Samsung ripped off in it's entirety for the Galaxy Tab.

I actually feel bad for Samsung...

http://i.imgur.com/xjB3g.jpg

rmwebs
May 29, 2011, 03:36 AM
Haha....good on Samsung. They have just as much right to view the competitors products as Apple does...i.e none!

As much as I am loving iPhones/iPads, I hope Samsung can do something to shake Apple up here...they have become complacent with iOS and dont seem to even be attempting to get up to the level of extendability that Samsung and other Android devices can do.

nado
May 29, 2011, 03:46 AM
I'm starting to think I'll avoid Samsung like Sony.

davester
May 29, 2011, 04:06 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Such a request cannot be legal!! It's a complete pisstake, without merit and utterly ridiculous? On what grounds are they requesting to view Apple's current undertakings?

The audacity to say "Apple, give us your magical formula... Or else, damnit!"

Complete wank.

rolfbert
May 29, 2011, 04:06 AM
I will buy a samsung phone on monday, I just can't stand IOS :S. My next laptop will be a MBP again though.

However on a totally unrelated note, this discovery ******** is one reason why I would never do business in the US :D

cactus33
May 29, 2011, 04:07 AM
Samsung is a loser... Bunch of morons.

Mate, without Samsung, there would be no iPad screens and no SSDs in your MBAs.

maclaptop
May 29, 2011, 04:09 AM
So Apple are above the law then?

They act like it, they probably believe it, and the CEO is quick to speak in a very condescending fashion to anyone that questions anything about Apple.

This is my one and ONLY complaint with Apple, the super arrogant attitude, their self centered screw everyone else culture that is pervasive throughout.

boss.king
May 29, 2011, 04:12 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Such a request cannot be legal!! It's a complete pisstake, without merit and utterly ridiculous? On what grounds are they requesting to view Apple's current undertakings?

The audacity to say "Apple, give us your magical formula... Or else, damnit!"

Complete wank.

You know Apple did the same thing right? I'm sure Samsung's lawyers have a reason to make such a request. I don't get why people get so worked up about a lawsuit, it's not like the loser must leave the industry, they'll just pay the other one a bit of money.

Blues003
May 29, 2011, 04:14 AM
Wait, so...

Samsung infringed patents, as such Apple wants to see Samsung's prototypes which have also been publicly announced and demo'ed -> makes sense; the part that has been attacked is thus getting some sort of advantage.

Samsung infringed patents, so it must see the future unannounced undemoed products -> so the attacked part also has to supply a rival with their guns?

Seriously, WTF. In that case I want to see Apple's, Samsung's, HTC's and LG's prototypes. I am producing a phone of my own and I do not want to risk violating any patents!

maclaptop
May 29, 2011, 04:15 AM
You know Apple did the same thing right? I'm sure Samsung's lawyers have a reason to make such a request. I don't get why people get so worked up about a lawsuit, it's not like the loser must leave the industry, they'll just pay the other one a bit of money.

You are correct, this is nothing more than legal wrangling that Apple Started

idorun
May 29, 2011, 04:22 AM
I noticed Korean manufactures tend to imitate other competitor's popular products~~

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1682/comparisonz.jpg

Unggoy Murderer
May 29, 2011, 04:28 AM
Wow, have you even seen the Galaxy SII? I'm betting the answer is no.
Well, I have seen and played with a GSII and personally I'm not impressed. Sure, the tech numbers are better than the iPhone (4) but it's performance is still pretty poor, it's nowhere near as smooth or stable as iOS.

One thing that disgusts me is the blatant resemblance TouchWiz has to iOS. you'd need to be near enough blind if you can't see how alike they are. If Apple loose out on hardware, fair enough; but Samsung are pretty skrewed when it comes down to the software.

On a side note, the reason why the GSII is outperforming the iPhone 4 is probably because teen kids are asking mummy and daddy for a new phone that's better than the 'old' phone they got at Christmas. Why do they go for the Samsung: its cheaper. I'll bet that 90% of those kids want an iPhone 4.

rboerdijk
May 29, 2011, 04:43 AM
So, Apple is going to say to judge (under oath) that they do not have a prototype of iPhone 5 yet, right? They are not stupid. They may try to refuse on some other ground but not by lying.

Actually they asked for the _final_ version... As long as apple says they haven't decided yet which prototype will be final, they wouldn't be lying...

AdrianK
May 29, 2011, 05:04 AM
So Apple crying over similar icons. I guess they have to try and do something to try and stop the power of Android.

Make that shamelessly ripped-off icons. The entire page layout is copied, the dock; 4*4 row of encapsulated icons; same page icon indicator in the same place (oh, my bad, it has number!); same round, red notification icons.

How could anyone not think that Apple are entitled to sue their asses? Fanboys. That's why.

bobbleheadbob
May 29, 2011, 05:09 AM
I want to see the new iPhone and iPad, too. Please send me one of each, Apple. Forthwith. :D

littyboy
May 29, 2011, 05:11 AM
What a bunch of idiots.. They are so worried what Apple will make and do that they always have Apple's innovative design in mind when creating their own products it's just sickening. I bet Apple got a kick out of that and didn't even bother to comply..

I dont think you even understood whats going on here idiot... Samsung is not trying to copy them. They want to see the prototype for that reason and so they could avoid another patent lawsuit... It's actually really reasonable since apple likes to go on suing sprees..

the8thark
May 29, 2011, 05:22 AM
http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/

Read that article. It explains the whole Samsung vs Apple case in great deal. And is relatively unbiased. Yes you heard right. Relatively unbiased. Pretty rare to see a relatively unbiased article these days on the interwebs.

Heck the articles on that site are so good (read unbiased) I'm bookmarking it. On this site the article authors actually look for signs that images are photoshopped before they post them. And actually say if they think the images are photoshopped. I've seen not one other site do this. So bravo to them.

trunten
May 29, 2011, 05:42 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

lol. This is going to fail epically. As if their lawyers think a judge would 't see straight through this.

soc3chappd
May 29, 2011, 05:45 AM
I dont know why Apple care about this, they have the market in their hands. I dont see people queuing for samsung products.

Technology is always slightly similiar, i must admit, apple were the first with the screen icons etc, completely stolen by virtually everyone else.

I dont think there is a cat in hells chance apple are going to hand over final products to samsungs lawyers....not in a million years.

Lone Deranger
May 29, 2011, 05:50 AM
Again, Samsung re-hired a CEO who is known for tax-evation and they sue people for political cartoons. Apple may not be ready for Samsung's legal prowess.

You're not exactly painting a rosy picture here of Samsung. They sound pretty dodgy.

nostromo77
May 29, 2011, 05:53 AM
You have to be kidding...

Samsung is so obviously stealing from Apple's iPhone design that just yesterday walking past a billboard, a Samsung Galaxy phone looked so much like an iPhone I was shocked that Apple didn't sue.

Point is that Samsung is now just getting pathetic here... in fact I dare to say most companies suing each other left and right are grossly pathetic. In many cases I agree and support Apple's lawsuits basted on their history and the amount of copies of their products cashing in on sometimes as simple as their name or logo. That I understand.

But try to look at it from a consumers point of view... who came first and with what. Then think, what does it really matter to you? Shouldn't Samsung and other companies really TRY to be better than Apple? Isn't that the point? When there is a boxing fight, the world champion needs to be defeated by the new guy, right? That's the point of the game.

So... why are we wasting valuable time, money and resources on things that inhibit innovators from being innovative.

Meaning... we could have had better things by now if companies wouldn't moan so much about petty incompetent things such as those illustrated in recent tech news.

Finally, if they would have spent all the time, money and energy in discovering a safer means of using Mobile phones instead of the deadly ones we all have in our pockets, the world would be a nicer and safer place...

That's just my opinion...

I noticed Korean manufactures tend to imitate other competitor's popular products~~

Image (http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1682/comparisonz.jpg)

This is exactly what I am thinking... (Asian's have a long history of back-engenering western products). The world of counterfeit is at the very heart of Asia...

(Yes, you have to have been there before you can actually comment on just how bad it is).

And for the Asian people on MacRumors, I am not saying they don't make anything original, naturally they do... and they make some amazing things too... I'm not generalizing but these are the facts.

And I love Samsung TVs, in my opinion they are the best... but I once had a Samsung mobile and it was the worst I had.

gnasher729
May 29, 2011, 05:57 AM
One question, if only 'external lawyers' are allowed to the the prototypes of 'the other' company - how the hell do those lawyers decide what was copied or not - I would assume those have not the technical background and company internal information to make an educated decision, I mean, a more technical person with internal knowledge from each company would be required for that - but that person would no longer be allowed to work on the new version ....

It doesn't matter whether something is copied or not. What matters is that Apple has design patents, which should clearly describe what is protected and what is not, and these lawyers just compare what the design patents say with the products that Samsung produces. There is no need for any internal knowledge of the company.

Sorry, Apple cannot tell a judge to pound sand.

Of course not. But Apple can tell the judge exactly why Samsung's request has no justification whatsoever, and when they convinced the judge, the judge will tell Samsung to pound sand.

alghawas
May 29, 2011, 06:23 AM
I simply could not stop laughing.

Samsung, you are being ridiculous. That defeats the whole purpose.

boss.king
May 29, 2011, 06:24 AM
Finally, if they would have spent all the time, money and energy in discovering a safer means of using Mobile phones instead of the deadly ones we all have in our pockets, the world would be a nicer and safer place...

I agreed with you until this, and then I got lost. Was the deadliness a metaphor?

sameday
May 29, 2011, 06:28 AM
Samsung needs to focus on making better smartphones and not try to steal Apple's intellectual properties.

barberio
May 29, 2011, 07:16 AM
So, Apple is going to say to judge (under oath) that they do not have a prototype of iPhone 5 yet, right? They are not stupid. They may try to refuse on some other ground but not by lying.

They have prototypes of test devices that may or may not be going to market at some time in the future. But it has *always* been Apple's policy to deny that any prototype produced by them is a specific market product. So they're on pretty firm ground there.

AdrianK
May 29, 2011, 07:19 AM
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/743/unledrd.jpg

Pretty compelling imo.

EDIT: Should be "iPhone OS" >.<

kiljoy616
May 29, 2011, 07:20 AM
Wait, wait a minute now. So Apple may actually have an ipad 3 but with what sort of screen. So does this mean they will not be using Samsung's OLED or is Samsung lawyers asking for something that is just on the drawing board. :rolleyes:

kiljoy616
May 29, 2011, 07:23 AM
It doesn't matter whether something is copied or not. What matters is that Apple has design patents, which should clearly describe what is protected and what is not, and these lawyers just compare what the design patents say with the products that Samsung produces. There is no need for any internal knowledge of the company.



Of course not. But Apple can tell the judge exactly why Samsung's request has no justification whatsoever, and when they convinced the judge, the judge will tell Samsung to pound sand.

Or samsung lawyers will show the judge that there is reverent to show difference in products and Apple will have to comply and shove a nice big corn on the cob deep and do it. :eek:

kiljoy616
May 29, 2011, 07:25 AM
This is why Apple is suing Samsung...

Samsung even used a sunflower for their Gallery icon.

And why use a flower anyway? Samsung didn't even attempt to look for a better icon for Gallery... they just went ahead and used a sunflower like Apple. That's about as lazy as you can get!

So... tell me again why Apple whould show the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 to Samsung?

http://i.imgur.com/SwkNg.jpg

Are you for real those two things are so different its not even funny. You are seen what you want to see fangirl.:rolleyes:

Michael Scrip
May 29, 2011, 07:34 AM
Are you for real those two things are so different its not even funny. You are seen what you want to see fangirl. :rolleyes:

How about this? Am I making it up?

http://i.imgur.com/xjB3g.jpg

barberio
May 29, 2011, 07:34 AM
What are you talking about? How would it possibly be feasible to develop several entire handsets and marketing campaigns, only to abandon all but one the day before it is announced? They may use several different prototypes in the process of development but they do not pick one "a day prior to launch", they would settle on a final design, and then refine it further, ignoring the others.

Er... Have you been following Apple's history at all?

They don't announce a new product till they have a working production model. Ever. Unlike other computer firms, they do not announce prototypes as marketable devices. They don't set artificial product release dates, they don't push out a product just because it's the next big show.

Apple can, and have, decided that a product isn't ready yet, and sent it back to the kitchen. They don't ever announce a product just because they've been working on it. They have lots of alternative product prototypes and marketing campaigns, that never see the light of day.

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 07:38 AM
Well, I have seen and played with a GSII and personally I'm not impressed. Sure, the tech numbers are better than the iPhone (4) but it's performance is still pretty poor, it's nowhere near as smooth or stable as iOS.

One of my friends got the Samsung Captivate (Galaxy S, not the II) and I got to play with it a bit last night at supper.

The AMOLED screen is amazing compared to my 3GS. The animations were fluid and the touch screen responded really well to touches. I really don't see how people can call Android choppy. It sure wasn't on the Galaxy S.

One thing that disgusts me is the blatant resemblance TouchWiz has to iOS. you'd need to be near enough blind if you can't see how alike they are. If Apple loose out on hardware, fair enough; but Samsung are pretty skrewed when it comes down to the software.

The homescreens are nothing alike. There is no "grid of icons" on the Samsung at all, just a bunch of widgets and shortcut icons. To get the grid, you have to pull up the App Drawer, which seriously feels nothing like the iPhone's homescreen in the real.

Basically, all these posts now tell me even more that people have never touched an Android device when they go saying it's inferior to iPhone. It's pretty much on par if not better (of course the Galaxy S is a much newer model than my 3GS, so I don't fault the 3GS' hardware for not being up to par).

On a side note, the reason why the GSII is outperforming the iPhone 4 is probably because teen kids are asking mummy and daddy for a new phone that's better than the 'old' phone they got at Christmas. Why do they go for the Samsung: its cheaper. I'll bet that 90% of those kids want an iPhone 4.

The Samsung Galaxy S is sold for 199$ on contract. How is it cheaper than a 199$ iPhone 4 ? The fact that you get more hardware for the same price now means the phone is cheaper ? I thought it meant the manufacturer just didn't plainly pocket profits at the expense of its customers.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 29, 2011, 07:38 AM
Are you for real those two things are so different its not even funny. You are seen what you want to see fangirl.:rolleyes:

Are they different?

YES

Are they very very similar?

YES

One must be blind to not find any apparent similarities in that reference.

jonnysods
May 29, 2011, 07:40 AM
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This is a pretty funny move.

Doesn't make any sense but I like that it matches Apples arrogance and intensity.

barberio
May 29, 2011, 07:44 AM
The Samsung Galaxy S is sold for 199$ on contract. How is it cheaper than a 199$ iPhone 4 ? The fact that you get more hardware for the same price now means the phone is cheaper ? I thought it meant the manufacturer just didn't plainly pocket profits at the expense of its customers.

Hold on, you're confusing me... Are you saying a similar storage size model iPhone would be more expensive? So, the Samsung is cheaper then?

Ah... The good old practice of pricing to the lowest price apple product, then saying the 'spec is better', regardless of build quality or how it all works together. It never gets old.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 29, 2011, 07:45 AM
Hold on, you're confusing me... Are you saying a similar storage size model iPhone would be more expensive? So, the Samsung is cheaper then?

Ah... The good old practice of pricing to the lowest price apple product, then saying the 'spec is better', regardless of build quality or how it all works together. It never gets old.

You are lucky, you got through the post.

I am still wondering, how people get 'more hardware' when they buy a non-apple product. :confused:

iStudentUK
May 29, 2011, 07:47 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

This is a pretty funny move.

Doesn't make any sense but I like that it matches Apples arrogance and intensity.

I bet it makes sense to lawyers working in the field. Lawyers play games like this, it's part of the job. They will know more about the situation than any of us do and there will have been a long discussion in a meeting room somewhere at Samaung's lawyers offices when the decided to make this move- it will make sense to them!

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 07:49 AM
Hold on, you're confusing me... Are you saying a similar storage size model iPhone would be more expensive? So, the Samsung is cheaper then?

Ah... The good old practice of pricing to the lowest price apple product, then saying the 'spec is better', regardless of build quality or how it all works together. It never gets old.

Samsung's phones have decent build quality and it all works together just fine. If you ever used one, you'd know. My 3GS has had more problems than any of my Sony Ericsson or Nokia phones. Incidentally, my 3GS is the first time I had to have a phone replaced under warranty. Apple is not the top end of build quality for phones, far from it.

And the iPhone 4 has basically kept its pricing since June of last year. It's no wonder than current phones, while using the 199$ sweet spot all have better specs, the iPhone is close to a year old! No other manufacturer keep the price so high during the lifetime of their devices. The guy claimed the phone was cheaper. It's not. Way to move the goalposts there when one argument fails.

ChrisTX
May 29, 2011, 07:57 AM
Now I don't entirely agree that the Sensation and GSII is superior to the iPhone 4 in all respect, the iPhone 4 is certainly not 10 years ahead of both of these phones.

Fair enough, but it's very safe to assume that had it not been for the original iPhone in 2007 all current smartphones would look like BlackBerries. On that note would it not be a fair assesment to make that all current Android smartphones are copying the iPhone in both form and function in many aspects?

swagi
May 29, 2011, 08:01 AM
One of my friends got the Samsung Captivate (Galaxy S, not the II) and I got to play with it a bit last night at supper.

The AMOLED screen is amazing compared to my 3GS. The animations were fluid and the touch screen responded really well to touches. I really don't see how people can call Android choppy. It sure wasn't on the Galaxy S.



The homescreens are nothing alike. There is no "grid of icons" on the Samsung at all, just a bunch of widgets and shortcut icons. To get the grid, you have to pull up the App Drawer, which seriously feels nothing like the iPhone's homescreen in the real.

Basically, all these posts now tell me even more that people have never touched an Android device when they go saying it's inferior to iPhone. It's pretty much on par if not better (of course the Galaxy S is a much newer model than my 3GS, so I don't fault the 3GS' hardware for not being up to par).



The Samsung Galaxy S is sold for 199$ on contract. How is it cheaper than a 199$ iPhone 4 ? The fact that you get more hardware for the same price now means the phone is cheaper ? I thought it meant the manufacturer just didn't plainly pocket profits at the expense of its customers.

QFT

And now I'm waiting for the first idiot to post that the Facebook icon is completely identical on Android. WTF. A green phone button?!?

Some of you fanboys really have to get a clue. Look at the screens of ANY (!!!) Android phone and now tell me why Samsung is oh so similar, while LG, HTC and the others are so different. You just fall for every propaganda lie the Apple press department offers you. Fact is, that my Samsung Galaxy 3 uses an enveloped letter for SMS. Fact is the home screen is working completely different on Android devices (wake me up when widgets finally hit the iOS home screen). And considering that Push-notification screenshot...

...fact is that notifications are shown in the top bar and are accessed via the top drawer!

So enjoy your last years tech in the walled garden while the educated laugh at your fashion statement iPhone (now in *shiny* and *magical* white) - and still have to decide whether to use nowadays standard tech on Android or wait for Mango.

Just fyi: This is the actual promo shot of the Galaxy S2 - the phone Apple doesn't want you to see.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NXPAmqmuL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

ob81
May 29, 2011, 08:03 AM
This is actually pretty smart. Apple hides info on products, and then they start a lawsuit about copying. Ok, I don't want to copy you, let me see your unannounced products so I won't. Simple but genius, and remember, these guys are defending themselves.

We all want to be on Apple's side, but in defense of Samsung, I wouldn't let someone run all over my company either.

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:03 AM
Fair enough, but it's very safe to assume that had it not been for the original iPhone in 2007 all current smartphones would look like BlackBerries. On that note would it not be a fair assesment to make that all current Android smartphones are copying the iPhone in both form and function in many aspects?

What are you on about ? Sony Ericsson made smartphones like this one :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/P900-geo.jpg

Does that even look like a Blackberry to you ? Do you know when this phone was released ?

On that note, would it not be a fair assessment to say anyone who thinks Apple changed anything in the smartphone world is blind to what the smartphone world was before Apple (hint, not much has changed at all) ?

Azathoth
May 29, 2011, 08:05 AM
This is why Apple is suing Samsung...

Samsung even used a sunflower for their Gallery icon.

And why use a flower anyway? Samsung didn't even attempt to look for a better icon for Gallery... they just went ahead and used a sunflower like Apple. That's about as lazy as you can get!

So... tell me again why Apple whould show the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 to Samsung?

http://i.imgur.com/SwkNg.jpg

Icons tend to be fairly standardised. As are colours. A green telephone receiver as an icon to make a call has been used for more than a decade, long before smartphones. So is the use of a spanner or gears for accessing settings.

Regarding number of columns - smartphones have approx. the same screen size. At a normal viewing distance the icon size is a given, therefore 4 columns is the only reasonable choice for 3.5-4.3 inch screens. Smaller devices (e.g. pre-touch screen) typically have only 3x3 icon grids.


Look at your desktop - a floppy disk:"save", an open folder: "open file". In this case I would argue it's very much in the public interest that such icons are allowed, because it allows users to use devices seemlessly - look at the controls on a CD / Tape player see how they all use the same symbols for Play, Skip, Eject etc - Now imagine if everyone had to invent their own icons...

Copyright already protects the icon image itself. Patents should have nothing to do with this.

Azathoth
May 29, 2011, 08:08 AM
Fair enough, but it's very safe to assume that had it not been for the original iPhone in 2007 all current smartphones would look like BlackBerries. On that note would it not be a fair assesment to make that all current Android smartphones are copying the iPhone in both form and function in many aspects?

Nope, my 2007 era nokia smartphone (non-touch screen) was able to run torrents in the background, play internet streaming music. All without looking like a blackberry.

To be fair the phone was slow, but usable and in many ways more capable than the iPhone.

barberio
May 29, 2011, 08:09 AM
Samsung's phones have decent build quality and it all works together just fine.


You know that the Galaxy S II has an entirely plastic case right?

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:11 AM
A green telephone receiver as an icon to make a call has been used for more than a decade

OMG, even phone companies are now ripping off Apple's phone icon design!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iyCmZg7OArM/SUVL9g4gX9I/AAAAAAAAB7o/FelekJk_kvo/s400/phone%2Bbooth.JPG

:rolleyes:

BTW, Apple is suing Samsung over trademarks. They trademarked their icons... Yes... trademarked.

You know that the Galaxy S II has an entirely plastic case right?

Yes, so... what ? My 3GS also has an entirely plastic case... I don't quite get your point here.

Oh wait, are you one of those guys that believe "Build quality" somehow means "Materials used" ? Hahahahha, I understand where you're coming from now. Ok, yes, Apple has "better build quality" because they use "metal". Ok man, whatever you say.

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:12 AM
double.

hexor
May 29, 2011, 08:18 AM
OMG, even phone companies are now ripping off Apple's phone icon design!

Image (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iyCmZg7OArM/SUVL9g4gX9I/AAAAAAAAB7o/FelekJk_kvo/s400/phone%2Bbooth.JPG)

:rolleyes:

BTW, Apple is suing Samsung over trademarks. They trademarked their icons... Yes... trademarked.

and we have countless number of people thinking "oh, this phone booth must somehow be related to an iPhone".. whereas Samsung is not only presenting their phone icon in the exact same context but using the same symbol and coloring.

swagi
May 29, 2011, 08:21 AM
How about this? Am I making it up?

http://i.imgur.com/xjB3g.jpg

OMFG! You really didn't do that, did you?

Yes, you are making it up because - actually if you'd really take a look at the posted screen you'd spot a shiny house-icon in the lower left corner which says "Home".

Actually you are misleading people showing Androids menu structure and leaving out the information that the posted picture IS NOT THE HOME SCREEN.

Congrats for offering your fair heap of misinformation to the uneducated!

barberio
May 29, 2011, 08:24 AM
Yes, so... what ? My 3GS also has an entirely plastic case... I don't quite get your point here.


So why exactly did you pry out all the metal buttons and replace the glass?


Oh wait, are you one of those guys that believe "Build quality" somehow means "Materials used" ? Hahahahha, I understand where you're coming from now. Ok, yes, Apple has "better build quality" because they use "metal". Ok man, whatever you say.

Are you seriously saying that the Galaxy S II has comparable build quality, even assuming that's possible with an all plastic case, to the iPhone 4?

And while build finishing is important, the materials you make it out of do actually matter. It's not possible to make a plastic baseball bat that's got the same feel as a wooden one.

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:24 AM
and we have countless number of people thinking "oh, this phone booth must somehow be related to an iPhone".. whereas Samsung is not only presenting their phone icon in the exact same context but using the same symbol and coloring.

Yes, because that Phone icon is a brilliant Apple idea right ? "Hey guys, let's take the phone icon used on phone booths for decades and put it... on our cellphone !" Pure Apple genius... oh wait, no :

http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/PRADA-Phone-LG-KE850-1.jpg

hexor
May 29, 2011, 08:26 AM
This is actually pretty smart. Apple hides info on products, and then they start a lawsuit about copying. Ok, I don't want to copy you, let me see your unannounced products so I won't. Simple but genius, and remember, these guys are defending themselves.

We all want to be on Apple's side, but in defense of Samsung, I wouldn't let someone run all over my company either.

We're talking about products already out in the market as the lawsuit even specifically stated.

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:26 AM
So why exactly did you pry out all the metal buttons and replace the glass?

What metal buttons on my 3GS ? The chromed plastic buttons you mean ? Did you get fooled by "chrome paint" ?

Glass ? The same Glass found on Samsung phones ? Again, don't quite catch your point here...

Are you seriously saying that the Galaxy S II has comparable build quality, even assuming that's possible with an all plastic case, to the iPhone 4?

Yes.

And while build finishing is important, the materials you make it out of do actually matter. It's not possible to make a plastic baseball bat that's got the same feel as a wooden one.

But a wooden phone would feel a bit awkward compared to a plastic phone. Plastic is a fine material for electronics and gadgets, it's light but it's reliance on petroleum to make it is ruining its price/quality ratio.

Plutonius
May 29, 2011, 08:27 AM
wanna bet that Apple will now drop the initial charges :p

Nope, Apple had to be expecting this after Apple asked for the units from Samsung. It just goes to show how serious Apple is about the suit.

This is going to remain an ugly fight and don't expect either side to cave.

hexor
May 29, 2011, 08:27 AM
Yes, because that Phone icon is a brilliant Apple idea right ? "Hey guys, let's take the phone icon used on phone booths for decades and put it... on our cellphone !" Pure Apple genius... oh wait, no :

Image (http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/PRADA-Phone-LG-KE850-1.jpg)

You show that icon to anybody and nobody would ever confuse that icon with the iPhone icon. That's the point.

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:29 AM
You show that icon to anybody and nobody would ever confuse that icon with the iPhone icon. That's the point.

It's the same phone handset icon. There is nothing inherently brilliant or unique about the iPhone icon, it used existing conventions for portraying a phone graphically. That's the point. No one would confuse the Samsung's icon for the iPhone's either because it's not on an iPhone.

BJMRamage
May 29, 2011, 08:32 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

This is quite funny. Apple has Samsung build some parts of the iPhone. Samsung starts selling phones that are very close to replicates. Apple sees this as too close for comfort and lOols into things legally. Apple asks to see these prototypes that have already been shown and NOW Samsung wants to see more apple future products??

What a joke Samsung. Stop the replications.

nihilisten
May 29, 2011, 08:32 AM
What are you on about ? Sony Ericsson made smartphones like this one :

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/P900-geo.jpg)

Does that even look like a Blackberry to you ? Do you know when this phone was released ?

On that note, would it not be a fair assessment to say anyone who thinks Apple changed anything in the smartphone world is blind to what the smartphone world was before Apple (hint, not much has changed at all) ?
nice pin you got there, do you know that neonode n1 was realesed before that one and didnt use a stupid pda pin, and another thing lg prada was unveiled 17 january 2007 and iphone 1gen 7 january so what are you gettin' at here.

ChrisTX
May 29, 2011, 08:33 AM
What are you on about ? Sony Ericsson made smartphones like this one :

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/P900-geo.jpg)

Does that even look like a Blackberry to you ? Do you know when this phone was released ?

On that note, would it not be a fair assessment to say anyone who thinks Apple changed anything in the smartphone world is blind to what the smartphone world was before Apple (hint, not much has changed at all) ?

http://news.cnet.com/i/ne/p/2008/android_prototype_550x385.jpg
Many people would like to forget that this is where Google was headed with Android prior to the success of the iPhone.

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:36 AM
nice pin you got there, do you know that neonode n1 was realesed before that one and didnt use a stupid pda pin

That Sony phone is from 2003. My point was to show the guy I was responding to that not all smartphones looked like Blackberries before the iPhone and the iPhone really had nothing to do with that.

and another thing lg prada was unveiled 17 january 2007 and iphone 1gen 7 january so what are you gettin' at here.

The LG Prada KE850 was announced in december 2006. It was showcased earlier in 2006 too.

Image (http://news.cnet.com/i/ne/p/2008/android_prototype_550x385.jpg)
Many people would like to forget that this is where Google was headed with Android prior to the success of the iPhone.

Forget ? What makes you think Android doesn't still do that format (the Motorola CHARM) :

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Consumers/Products/Mobile%20Phones/MOTOROLA-CHARM-with-MOTOBLUR/_Images/_StaticFiles/B2C_Basil_Cab_Front_TMO_alt_US-EN.png

Again, the Sony Ericsson P-series smartphones launched years before the iPhone weren't Blackberry look a likes. The iPhone simply went with what the market was doing at the time : Full touch screen phones with apparent buttons.

nostromo77
May 29, 2011, 08:37 AM
I agreed with you until this, and then I got lost. Was the deadliness a metaphor?

I probably got a bit carried away... I think I secretly wish the signal from the mobile phones weren't so harmful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npK5HSxukyA&feature=player_embedded

But then, it's like asking people to not drive cars with gas, then go to electrical instead. It's just not going to happen... not anytime soon.

imwoblin
May 29, 2011, 08:38 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Those pesky trademark and copyright lawyers are at it again! Reminds of Disney's attempt to copyright Seal Team 6 after the Bin Laden raid. They wanted the Navy to pay them everytime the name ST6 was used officially & unofficially!

barberio
May 29, 2011, 08:38 AM
What metal buttons on my 3GS ? The chromed plastic buttons you mean ? Did you get fooled by "chrome paint" ?


Okay, going to have to call bull on you ever really owning a 3GS there, unless you had a 'refurbished' second hand one that had been given non-apple parts. Go have a look at the authorised replacement parts, the buttons are a solid aluminium nub affixed to a lever package.


Glass ? The same Glass found on Samsung phones ? Again, don't quite catch your point here...

We're talking specifically about the Galaxy S II, which has an all plastic case construction and screen construction.

nihilisten
May 29, 2011, 08:39 AM
That Sony phone is from 2003. My point was to show the guy I was responding to that not all smartphones looked like Blackberries before the iPhone and the iPhone really had nothing to do with that.



Insult deleted and reported.

The LG Prada KE850 was announced in december 2006. It was showcased earlier in 2006 too.

neonode n1 was realesed spring 2003, p900 was realesed Q4. and neonode was all touchscreen. but you have never seen one of those im sure, as for the touchscreen on p900....

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 08:41 AM
neonode n1 was realesed spring 2003, p900 was realesed Q4. and neonode was all touchscreen. but you have never seen one of those im sure, as for the touchscreen on p900....

What's your point really ? Do you have one ? you're basically saying the same thing I am here...

hexor
May 29, 2011, 08:42 AM
It's the same phone handset icon. There is nothing inherently brilliant or unique about the iPhone icon, it used existing conventions for portraying a phone graphically. That's the point. No one would confuse the Samsung's icon for the iPhone's either because it's not on an iPhone.

With this logic any artist who tries to sell prints of a painting they did of Mt. Rushmore for example shouldn't care if someone else starts selling an exact copy of their print but just shrinks the print a bit. The entire point of the Samsung phone is to make people think it is an iPhone, they just attempted to modify the look as little as possible in the hopes they wouldn't get in trouble for copying it.

nihilisten
May 29, 2011, 08:44 AM
What's your point really ? Do you have one ? you're basically saying the same thing I am here...

im just sayin' p900 wasnt the first one or even a good phone and had a lot of similarities with a blackberry/pda and neonode was a smartphone. as far as i see it but...

cleanup
May 29, 2011, 08:45 AM
Apple is trying to embarrass Samsung. Samsung is responding in kind. I have no issue with this. Samsung's phones and OS might look a bit similar to Apple's, but in no way do I condone Apple's stick-up-their-ass legal practices. I respect Apple's right to "protect" their IP, but bullying their competitors is not the way to do it.

haruhiko
May 29, 2011, 08:45 AM
OK, Apple, show me your future products too, I want to build a mobile phone but don't want to infringe your design patents and I don't want to wait until September :D

Whozown
May 29, 2011, 08:48 AM
This is a complete joke on Samsung's part. Makes them seem whiny, makes me like them even less.

WiiDSmoker
May 29, 2011, 08:49 AM
This is a complete joke on Samsung's part. Makes them seem whiny, makes me like them even less.

And I bet you think Apple is the white knight too.

darkplanets
May 29, 2011, 08:53 AM
Won't happen. It's a weak argument at best given the context of the case, so it won't be approved.

antic
May 29, 2011, 08:55 AM
I respectfully disagree about the phone part. Remember that they've been making phones forever so there's no real reason why they should stop now. They just need to do some more work on their phones with timely updates and their own unique design/UI. They have pretty decent specs if you come to think about it (SAMOLED+, fast processors, etc).

However, I think they should probably stop making tablets. Honestly, how many do they sell? Like 10 with 5 returns? I can't blame them for trying though because they wouldn't know what they are and aren't capable of.

Image (http://www.okokchina.com/Files/uppic6/refurbished%20mobile%20phone%20SAMSUNG%20R220473.jpg)

Isn't that a copy of a Nokia 3210

hexor
May 29, 2011, 08:57 AM
And I bet you think Apple is the white knight too.

I fail to to see why people don't think ANY company shouldn't protect a product they came up with? Some company could do all the hard work of research, design, production, etc to come up with a successful product and some other company should just be allowed to skip all that work and come out with a near copy of it knowing that using the same idea would sell well? This is the same idea that Steve Ballmer laughed at.

fswmacguy
May 29, 2011, 09:08 AM
Samsung: "We showed you our knockoff product, now you show us your trade secrets."


Really, Samsung? Both Apple and Samsung are being ridiculous.

Rafterman
May 29, 2011, 09:09 AM
Engineers don't need to see it. Both Apple and Samsung know how to engineer things. Its enough to see what the other guy's new device will have, then make sure your own new device matches it. Neither request should have been/be approved. While I despise this hyper-paranoid company secrecy over products we've seen over the years, I understand why it exists and all of this is nothing more than court-approved industrial spying.

But its also ridiculous for Apple to be suing over obvious design features. The flat tablet like phone running a common operating system for running apps has been around since the PocketPC and Palm OS phones in 2003-ish. Suing over variations of what is now accepted as a common design is pointless.

baryon
May 29, 2011, 09:11 AM
I also demand to see the iPhone 5 this instant! I would not want my new invention to look like it, in case Apple says I copied it. By seeing it first, it makes it impossible for me to copy it!

Mr. Gates
May 29, 2011, 09:17 AM
But after all the hoopla over the similarity and knowing how open it is.......

I'm taking a closer look,..and liking it !

I love gadgets and the iPhone has been great for 4 years but now.....I'm bored with it.

ChrisTX
May 29, 2011, 09:27 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

nice pin you got there, do you know that neonode n1 was realesed before that one and didnt use a stupid pda pin

That Sony phone is from 2003. My point was to show the guy I was responding to that not all smartphones looked like Blackberries before the iPhone and the iPhone really had nothing to do with that.

and another thing lg prada was unveiled 17 january 2007 and iphone 1gen 7 january so what are you gettin' at here.

Insult deleted and reported.

The LG Prada KE850 was announced in december 2006. It was showcased earlier in 2006 too.

Image (http://news.cnet.com/i/ne/p/2008/android_prototype_550x385.jpg)
Many people would like to forget that this is where Google was headed with Android prior to the success of the iPhone.

Forget ? What makes you think Android doesn't still do that format (the Motorola CHARM) :

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Consumers/Products/Mobile%20Phones/MOTOROLA-CHARM-with-MOTOBLUR/_Images/_StaticFiles/B2C_Basil_Cab_Front_TMO_alt_US-EN.png

Again, the Sony Ericsson P-series smartphones launched years before the iPhone weren't Blackberry look a likes. The iPhone simply went with what the market was doing at the time : Full touch screen phones with apparent buttons.

The Moto Charm was a complete and utter failure as I'm sure the Droid Pro was also. The idea is the original iPhone was the first all touchscreen phone to ship in volume.

krischik
May 29, 2011, 09:41 AM
Samsung even used a sunflower for their Gallery icon.

To me the gallery icon is the only one which looks very different.

http://i.imgur.com/SwkNg.jpg

But then all the other icons are pretty much industry standard.


A little person for contacts
A phone handle to phone
Gears for setup
A chat bubble for chat


These are the industry's standard icons used on smart and feature phones before Apple even started to make mobile phones. And there is only that much variations you can put on them.

And Android phones don't have grits of icons by standard. Android has widgets (something iOS5 might get) and Manufactures tend show them off. So the home screen has been specially fabricated to look like iOS.

notabadname
May 29, 2011, 09:42 AM
For Samsung's demand to be valid, it seems Samsung would have to had filed a suit and claimed Apple was developing products (future) based on current Samsung products. Apple's suit is relevant to soon-to-be released (future) products of Samsung that are infringing on current Apple products. Apple's suit is not claiming that Samsung copied future Apple products, so the demand for access to future Apple products is likely frivolous. Samsung has already released images, as well as demo products to the media that Apple claims infringe on existing Apple products and tech. The iPhone 5 is irrelevant to the Apple suit IMO, and will be found as such by the court I bet. Basically Apple is saying the product you are about to release infringes on our current, in-the-market, product.

MarcelV
May 29, 2011, 09:47 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_8 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E401 Safari/6533.18.5)

@jeman: <quote>What is Samsung trying to prove here besides having access to more Apple technology to copy?
Why ape Apple in everything including lawsuit and legal maneuvers?</quote>

They are trying to establish timelines. Very smart move. If Apple denies the existence, Samsung can show internal design timelines of their products far exceeding the Apple timelines. If that timeline would exceed, it would be hard for Apple to prove copying.

krischik
May 29, 2011, 09:52 AM
The idea is the original iPhone was the first all touchscreen phone to ship in volume.

That is an easy claim because you can define “in volume” anything you like to make sure your claim sticks.

Actually you are misleading people showing Androids menu structure and leaving out the information that the posted picture IS NOT THE HOME SCREEN.

Right. Because a home screen on Android would have widgets. I wonder if Apple will — when iOS5 is out — sue everybody over the use of widgets.

ph00ny
May 29, 2011, 10:02 AM
Oh, they have taste, all right. Most grocery stores in South Korea are owned by Samsung directly or by one of its branch corporations. Everything else, though, is adapted from other companies.

Their car line that failed in the 1990's is being resurrected by Renault and Samsung. What do they use? Nissan chassis for their cars. Their plasma and most of the LCD stuff? bought from Japan.

Cameras, lenses, tech, everything is bought from someone else.

I'm surprised they got their towers up so well around the world. I wonder whose tech they bought for that. Originality just isn't their strain, but... they are so big and so powerful, they have the clout to make anything and everything work and keep naive foreigners from realising just how insidiously they work.

Apple would do good to move away from Samsung's fab, RAM, etc., and invest in other manufacturers. If they don't, I'm afraid Samsung will just buy out those other companies before they have larger investments.

lol you're kidding me right? LCD bought from japan?
You know that S-LCD which is labeled as sony's baby? it's actually half owned by samsung

1. Sony is samsung's biggest customer for 2011 Q1
2. Sony actually buys samsung lcd panels like everyone else

2011 Q1 breakdown
Rank Company Products Cost(in KRW) Percentage of total revenue
1 Sony DRAM, NAND Flash, LCD Panel, etc... 1.28 3.7
2 Apple Inc AP(mobile processor),DRAM, NAND Flash, etc... 0.9 2.6
3 Dell DRAM, Flat-Panels, Lithium-ion battery, etc... 0.87 2.5
4 HP DRAM, Flat-Panels, Lithium-ion battery, etc... 0.76 2.2

Very well stated. Remember, Apple has it's shredder pointed at the Mobile Division. It is very clear in all the complaints.

Apple and Samsung will continue to work together. Apple's Case against the hardware in the Galaxy 2 is legit, and Samsung has a pants full right now.

They are going to get caught using Apple A5 designs in their chips. They will change the design, and move on. :apple:

*cough* A5 design is based on Arm A9 design just like everyone else *cough*

Apple didn't file an lawsuit on chip design. They sued samsung based on what is visible whereas samsung's lawsuit is based on technology embedded under the skin

Dcuellar
May 29, 2011, 10:12 AM
I would love to be there when Samsung's lawyers ask for it. There's no way they can keep a straight face.

mattg3
May 29, 2011, 10:17 AM
I also demand to see the ipad3.Why should damn lawyers have all the fun.

ph00ny
May 29, 2011, 10:32 AM
Okay, going to have to call bull on you ever really owning a 3GS there, unless you had a 'refurbished' second hand one that had been given non-apple parts. Go have a look at the authorised replacement parts, the buttons are a solid aluminium nub affixed to a lever package.



We're talking specifically about the Galaxy S II, which has an all plastic case construction and screen construction.

you mean the gorilla glass on the screen?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaNWuGtAaxM
just in case you want to call it korean bias

same gorilla glass in 5" dell streak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Ce8Ckqu0w

*LTD*
May 29, 2011, 10:38 AM
For Samsung's demand to be valid, it seems Samsung would have to had filed a suit and claimed Apple was developing products (future) based on current Samsung products. Apple's suit is relevant to soon-to-be released (future) products of Samsung that are infringing on current Apple products. Apple's suit is not claiming that Samsung copied future Apple products, so the demand for access to future Apple products is likely frivolous. Samsung has already released images, as well as demo products to the media that Apple claims infringe on existing Apple products and tech. The iPhone 5 is irrelevant to the Apple suit IMO, and will be found as such by the court I bet. Basically Apple is saying the product you are about to release infringes on our current, in-the-market, product.

Correct. Which is why Samsung's request is . . . novel, to put it very lightly.

Kwill
May 29, 2011, 10:38 AM
Samsung, you can't HANDLE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo) an Apple prototype!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

gnasher729
May 29, 2011, 10:40 AM
Or samsung lawyers will show the judge that there is reverent to show difference in products and Apple will have to comply and shove a nice big corn on the cob deep and do it. :eek:

So how would the looks of iPhone 5 and iPad 3 have any relevance whatsoever to a case where Apple is suing Samsung for copying the iPhone 4?

*LTD*
May 29, 2011, 10:44 AM
So how would the looks of iPhone 5 and iPad 3 have any relevance whatsoever to a case where Apple is suing Samsung for copying the iPhone 4?

Kudos for understanding the post you replied to.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 29, 2011, 10:54 AM
Forget ? What makes you think Android doesn't still do that format (the Motorola CHARM) :

Image (http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Consumers/Products/Mobile%20Phones/MOTOROLA-CHARM-with-MOTOBLUR/_Images/_StaticFiles/B2C_Basil_Cab_Front_TMO_alt_US-EN.png)


So you quote one phone that resembles the ancient android project prototypes and forget about the other 300 phones that were inspired by the iPhone?

DanteMann
May 29, 2011, 11:02 AM
Wow some of you really are taking this way too personal. What has either company done for you personally without you having to dish out CASH! Some are calling out Samsung as sad, whiny, pathetic, then you turn around and say something like, "this is why I will never buy another Samsung......" That sounds just as sad, pathetic, and whiny. :o
Again let me ask, what has either company done for you or your families that they deserve so much blind defending. Do you really think Apple is so righteous in all they do. Really? Same goes for Samsung. Their all the same. People, understand one thing, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILIES!!!. They only want your CASH!!!! So who cares about this stupid lawsuit. :D
Now excuse me while I phone my buddy on my shiny iPhone 4, and watch some news on my gorgeous brand new Samsung TV. ;)

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 11:03 AM
im just sayin' p900 wasnt the first on

And I never claimed it was. I said it's an example of a non-Blackberry type phone before the iPhone. Not that it was first at anything. In fact, the P900 was simply an evolution of the P800 that came before it and others I'm sure.

No need to insult me.

Thunderhawks
May 29, 2011, 11:03 AM
Really makes me wish I was a lawyer.

+1 It's like printing money:-)

KnightWRX
May 29, 2011, 11:18 AM
Okay, going to have to call bull on you ever really owning a 3GS there, unless you had a 'refurbished' second hand one that had been given non-apple parts. Go have a look at the authorised replacement parts, the buttons are a solid aluminium nub affixed to a lever package.

I'm holding it in my hand now. Looks plasticy to me. Those are aluminium ? Coulda fooled me.

My 3GS was bought new in 2009. It was replaced in an Apple store a little before the warranty ran out for a refurb after the mute switch gave out. It's all original.

Call bull all you like, it doesn't particularly scream "more quality!" to me. It looks just like every other phone.

And the Galaxy S II has a glass screen too btw. So I call Bull on your knowledge. ;)

So you quote one phone that resembles the ancient android project prototypes and forget about the other 300 phones that were inspired by the iPhone?

Inspired by the iPhone is your subjective opinion. For all we know they were inspired by the LG KE850 or the Sony Ericsson P900s.

What about all other Android phones with slide out keyboards ? The Xperia Play with a gamepad ? Those inspired by the iPhone too or simply by other phones with slide-out keyboards ?

Trying to discuss phones with the Apple community is like trying to discuss religion, I swear.

My point is Android is an OS. It's software, it's device agnostic. Google does not design hardware.

MacRumorUser
May 29, 2011, 11:24 AM
But after all the hoopla over the similarity and knowing how open it is.......

I'm taking a closer look,..and liking it !

I love gadgets and the iPhone has been great for 4 years but now.....I'm bored with it.

I'm in exactly the same boat. I have had every iPhone so far, but after having a number of technical issues with the iPhone 4 due to the baseband modem firmware and Vodafone Ireland transmitters dropping almost every call I made, which again was only introduced when apple upgraded the baseband in 4.2.1 back in November 2010.

So with the prospector an iPhone 4s this year, I decided instead of upgrading to another iPhone this year I am going to give Android a chance and bought a Samsung Galaxy S II and so far I do no regret it.