PDA

View Full Version : Samsung Seemingly Unconcerned Over Apple Lawsuit, Hints Dispute Could Continue to Escalate




MacRumors
May 30, 2011, 09:58 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/30/samsung-seemingly-unconcerned-over-apple-lawsuit-hints-dispute-could-continue-to-escalate/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/iphone_galaxy_comparison.jpg

(http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/iphone_galaxy_comparison.jpg)
In an interview with The Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303745304576354312309980754.html) discussing Samsung's push to embrace Android for its future tablet products, Samsung's president of mobile communications J.K. Shin notes that the company is seemingly unconcerned over Apple's lawsuit (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-targets-samsung-with-new-lawsuit-over-galaxy-line/) alleging that Samsung has copied the design and technology of the iPhone and iPad with its products. Shin does note, however, that the dispute could continue to escalate, although he apparently has not elaborated on potential scenarios."We didn't copy Apple's design," Mr. Shin said. "We have used many similar designs over the past years and it [Apple's allegation] will not be legally problematic." He suggested the scale of the lawsuit could grow, though he didn't provide more details.Apple last week was granted access (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/24/apple-granted-access-to-unreleased-samsung-hardware-in-patent-suit/) to unreleased (albeit already announced) Samsung hardware as part of the discovery phase in which Apple's lawyers build the background for their case. In response, Samsung filed a motion (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/28/samsungs-lawyers-demand-to-see-iphone-and-ipad-3/) requesting access to Apple's next-generation iPhone and iPad models, despite the fact that Apple has yet to even acknowledge that such devices exist.

Samsung and Apple are of course significant partners (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/14/apple-set-to-become-samsungs-biggest-customer-with-7-8-billion-in-contracts/) in the mobile industry, a relationship that makes the competition between the two firms in the marketplace and in the courtroom all the more interesting.

Article Link: Samsung Seemingly Unconcerned Over Apple Lawsuit, Hints Dispute Could Continue to Escalate (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/30/samsung-seemingly-unconcerned-over-apple-lawsuit-hints-dispute-could-continue-to-escalate/)



Darlo770
May 30, 2011, 10:07 AM
It just proves Samsung have no talent for design, and feel the need to rip off other company's successful designs. Low.

CQd44
May 30, 2011, 10:09 AM
Gee, a 4x4 grid. Something a lot of cellphones do.

The bottom row is similar to what's done with WebOS.

Sigh.

roadbloc
May 30, 2011, 10:10 AM
It just proves Samsung have no talent for design, and feel the need to rip off other company's successful designs. Low.
Agreed. And to be quite honest, the Apple design isn't that brilliant either. It's just a grid of icons.

iStudentUK
May 30, 2011, 10:11 AM
Just more games.

Lawyers and managers at both Samsung and Apple will be trying to influence the other's actions and guess the game plan. This would have been a calculated move by Samsung, Apple will analyse this and make a calculated move back.

Lawsuits between big companies are just business, they happen all the time and are rarely taken personally. The only people who get worked up about it and think it will cause massive problems are the public (eg people on this board!).

ciTiger
May 30, 2011, 10:12 AM
This is just the start... It will be years before this is solved...

Blorzoga
May 30, 2011, 10:13 AM
Agreed. And to be quite honest, the Apple design isn't that brilliant either. It's just a grid of icons.

It doesn't matter how simple the design is, it's still intellectual property and protected by patents.

bikemonkey
May 30, 2011, 10:13 AM
Gee, a 4x4 grid. Something a lot of cellphones do.

The bottom row is similar to what's done with WebOS.

Sigh.

"Sigh"? Do some research before posting opinionated comments rather than factual statements.

BJMRamage
May 30, 2011, 10:13 AM
hardly the same phone in the photos...Apple shot is angled and tilted on the side...Samsung is shot angled and tilted on the OTHER side.
Samsung has 4 icons across and 4 down, Apple has 4 down and four across. Apple has a 4-icon block on the bottom, Samsung has a block with 4 icons on the bottom.
Samsung had the screen dots on the top, Apple has them on the bottom. Samsung has its name on the front Apple does not.

Clearly totally different.

Samsung has copied like many others out there to have a similar phone, BUT Samsung ALSO mimics their ads and photos just like Apple whereas other brands position themselves in a different manner. Samsung is clearly trying to exploit the similar design and prescence that the Apple iPhone takes.

dagamer34
May 30, 2011, 10:17 AM
Is Apple going to attack Samsung because they used the color black or it has the earpiece at the top? Should whoever made the two-door coupe first sue everyone else who makes one?

The suit shouldn't be about whether they look similar because they do. IT'S A FREAKING PHONE (not a laptop, not a tablet, not a TV, etc...) Only so many variations exist. It's about whether Samsung purposefully designed and marketed to confuse customers into thinking it's an iPhone, and that should be a lot harder to prove.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 10:17 AM
In the end, this isn't something that is going to have an impact on Samsung, Apple or the customers involved. Petty politics.

the vj
May 30, 2011, 10:19 AM
In the corporate world is IMPOSSIBLE to come up with a new idea, it is better to steal someones else's.

Steve Jobs is the only case where the creative mind is as well the decision maker. That is why everybody is waiting to see what Apple does first.

It is better for Samsung to copy than to risk in research and spend in focus groups. Not to mention that if someone comes up with a great idea it may take the position of their own boss/supervisor and usually the person on top of you does not want to get fired or replaced and that person will discourage you. I know because people have done it to me 100 of times.

roadbloc
May 30, 2011, 10:19 AM
It doesn't matter how simple the design is, it's still intellectual property and protected by patents.

You don't say. :rolleyes:

*LTD*
May 30, 2011, 10:20 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Really? Not "problematic"?

Because the courts have already ordered Samsung to hand over their devices. A determination has already been made that Apple has a case. That's kinda problematic.

hcho3
May 30, 2011, 10:22 AM
Did not copy? Okay... hand over your Galaxy S 2, Galaxy tabs and other copycats.

Clearly copied.

GekkePrutser
May 30, 2011, 10:23 AM
It's not just about the grid of icons. Everything's the same.

The dots for the multiple home screens (although at the top instead of the bottom - wow what a huge difference), the bottom bar with fixed icons, the phone design/form factor, home button positioning, even the chrome ring around the screen is repeated although grey instead of chrome.

I have to side with Apple here, I can't imagine Samsung having designed this without taking a good look at the iPhone.

Consultant
May 30, 2011, 10:26 AM
Didn't Samsung meant it copied the Razr before it started copying the iPhone?

Oh, and Samsung phones goes against other Android phones and copies iPhone's physical "home" button.

jonnysods
May 30, 2011, 10:28 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Apple need Samsung for so many of their parts. Don't burn your bridges Apple!

hcho3
May 30, 2011, 10:29 AM
Samsung buys every single god damn products apple makes. What do they do? They tear them apart and have their engineers to make a better product.

Samsung should be ashamed of themselves. They copied.

Truffy
May 30, 2011, 10:30 AM
Shin does note, however, that the dispute could continue to escalate,
Oh great, "my dad's bigger than your dad". The only people who win from this stuff are the lawyers. :rolleyes:
Samsung filed a motion requesting access to Apple's next-generation iPhone and iPad models, despite the fact that Apple has yet to even acknowledge that such devices exist.
Presumably so that Samsung can get them to market first! :D

pepitko
May 30, 2011, 10:30 AM
The visual differences between the Samsung phone and the iPhone are indeed quite small. So in this case it's quite clear that Samsung is selling nearly the same phone and riding the wave of iPhone's popularity.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 10:31 AM
It's not just about the grid of icons. Everything's the same.

Everything ? Seems to me you've never used the Galaxy S line.

The dots for the multiple home screens (although at the top instead of the bottom - wow what a huge difference),

The dots also have a page number and don't just light up when they are active, they become bigger. They absolutely aren't the same except for the fact they are round.

the bottom bar with fixed icons

Which if anything is a copy of the myriad of existing UIs for computers with icon docks (take your pick...).

the phone design/form factor

Which Galaxy S phone ? The i9000 ? Nope, it's form factor is different, especially the back. The Epic ? The Vibrant ? The Captivate ? The Fascinate ? Nope, because those don't even look like iPhones...

home button positioning

Which model ? And did you notice the capacitive buttons on each side ? And the shape that is different ?

, even the chrome ring around the screen is repeated although grey instead of chrome.

It's shape is different. It's color is different.

I have to side with Apple here, I can't imagine Samsung having designed this without taking a good look at the iPhone.

Only because you've believed the media hype about this whole story. Do a little research.

*LTD*
May 30, 2011, 10:40 AM
Only because you've believed the media hype about this whole story. Do a little research.

The research has already been done.

The courts have ordered Samsung to hand over the goods to Apple.

Now we're waiting for Apple's next move.

ablack774
May 30, 2011, 10:46 AM
I feel that this is quite pathetic of Apple... I mean how do you make a one phone not look like another phone. They all tend to be rectangular black things with at least one physical button on the front. Am i missing something here?

Its hard to make them look very different at all... well that is until you see that disgusting monstrosity called a Dell Streak.

wovel
May 30, 2011, 10:52 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Apple need Samsung for so many of their parts. Don't burn your bridges Apple!
You do realize Apple is the customer and Samsung needs Apple's money a lot more then Apple needs Samsungs parts. apple can replace Samsung, there is no other customer for Samsung to sell these parts to, they will have to cut jobs and retool.

deannnnn
May 30, 2011, 10:52 AM
Hey remember that time we all got along?

Nvm that didn't happen.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 10:54 AM
One thing everyone needs to remember Apple needs Samsung a lot more than Samsung needs Apple.

*LTD*
May 30, 2011, 10:55 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Apple need Samsung for so many of their parts. Don't burn your bridges Apple!

Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

As long as consumers keep going crazy for Apple gear and demand is through the roof (been this way for years now), there will be no shortage of suppliers wanting in on the action.

timirving
May 30, 2011, 10:57 AM
I feel that this is quite pathetic of Apple... I mean how do you make a one phone not look like another phone. They all tend to be rectangular black things with at least one physical button on the front. Am i missing something here?

Its hard to make them look very different at all... well that is until you see that disgusting monstrosity called a Dell Streak.

While I'm not sure about this suit and all the particulars of the patent...... which phone and UI's looked like the iPhone before the iPhone? They definitely looked different before the iPhone and phones (smart phones) are starting to look incredibly similar after the iPhone. Whether it's flattery or theft of design....... I'm not sure; thank god it's not my job to figure it all out :D

louis Fashion
May 30, 2011, 10:57 AM
These 2 should quit bitching and bring me a better phone.

whooleytoo
May 30, 2011, 10:58 AM
It doesn't matter how simple the design is, it's still intellectual property and protected by patents.

If having a "grid of icons" in a phone UI is Apple's exclusive IP and is patented, then someone in the patent office needs to be taken outside and shot. Then resuscitated, healed, then shot again. Followed by a strongly worded letter.

I think Samsung's 'problem' isn't so much that they've copied any one thing that's an Apple exclusive, but they've 'copied' lots and lots of little things. The physical design of the device, the grid UI with an identical number of icons, and dock placement, the position/design of the phone icon, the speaker design, the position of the home button. None of these things are "exclusively Apple", but the combined effect of all of them is a device that's very, very similar to Apple's design.

iDisk
May 30, 2011, 10:59 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Really? Not "problematic"?

Because the courts have already ordered Samsung to hand over their devices. A determination has already been made that Apple has a case. That's kinda problematic.

Not really... Apple was the "first" to complain, if samsung was the "first" to complain, then the story would be different.

DakotaGuy
May 30, 2011, 11:01 AM
Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

Apple should be looking for new vendors however and the minute the contract is up ensure everything Samsung is removed from their products.

AppleScruff1
May 30, 2011, 11:02 AM
Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

As long as consumers keep going crazy for Apple gear and demand is through the roof (been this way for years now), there will be no shortage of suppliers wanting in on the action.

Don't you mean that Apple is under contract with Samsung?

AidenShaw
May 30, 2011, 11:04 AM
Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

Contracts expire, and new products may not be covered by existing contracts.

There's definitely a bridge.

NutsNGum
May 30, 2011, 11:04 AM
You do realize Apple is the customer and Samsung needs Apple's money a lot more then Apple needs Samsungs parts. apple can replace Samsung, there is no other customer for Samsung to sell these parts to, they will have to cut jobs and retool.

Yes, I imagine all those iPhones and Pads working splendidly without their silicon chips.

mainstreetmark
May 30, 2011, 11:05 AM
THIS IS RIDICULOUS!

Apple is suing Samsung just because Samsung made a phone with a horizontally slotted earpiece, with a light sensor next to it hidden behind blackened glass surrounded by a curved bezel with a 1.9 aspect ratio, housing a capacitive, glass-encased touchscreen displaying a 4 by 5 grid of application icons organized by screens enumerated by an array of small dots in which the active screen is indicated by a brightened dot, with the bottom row constant on all screens, backdropped by a grey color, containing default icons, such as a green, rounded-square Phone icon with a profiled white handset shown at a 45 degree angle ,who's settings are controlled by an icon with a gear on it, and with a primary hardware interface button located at bottom dead center?

Frivolous, man...

edit: ..and a pink iTunes icon

Glideslope
May 30, 2011, 11:06 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Apple need Samsung for so many of their parts. Don't burn your bridges Apple!

People need to differentiate Samsung Inc. from Samsung's Mobile Division.

The actions are between Apple and Samsung Mobile. Not a big deal. Simply more diversions to distract from what Apple is really doing.

Personally if I were Steve, I would be working behind the scenes to foster reunification between S. Korea, and N. Korea. That would take S. Korea out of the global economy for a good 10 years. :apple:

Winni
May 30, 2011, 11:07 AM
It doesn't matter how simple the design is, it's still intellectual property and protected by patents.

I really wish the guys who invented the alphabet and the wheel would still be around and sue the **** out of schools and the entire automobile industry. Hey, maybe we could even resurrect Johannes Gensfleisch zum Gutenberg to sue the crap out of the publishing industry for using unlicensed printing machines.

That would teach the world how ridiculously stupid the ideas of "intellectual property" and patents are.

Only huge corporations actually benefit from the patent and intellectual property system as it is (just try suing a billion dollar corporation for not respecting your patent when you are a one man shop), so all we can do is hope that they ruin themselves with it.

Malcolm.
May 30, 2011, 11:13 AM
I really wish the guys who invented the alphabet and the wheel would still be around and sue the **** out of schools and the entire automobile industry. Hey, maybe we could even resurrect Johannes Gensfleisch zum Gutenberg to sue the crap out of the publishing industry for using unlicensed printing machines.

That would teach the world how ridiculously stupid the ideas of "intellectual property" and patents are.

Only huge corporations actually benefit from the patent and intellectual property system as it is (just try suing a billion dollar corporation for not respecting your patent when you are a one man shop), so all we can do is hope that they ruin themselves with it.

I said pretty much the same thing here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12624191&postcount=5 and you can see the results for yourself. :D

*LTD*
May 30, 2011, 11:14 AM
Contracts expire, and new products may not be covered by existing contracts.

There's definitely a bridge.

Samsung The Supplier and Samsung the Phone-Purveyor are different divisions One business is different from the other, and a dispute in one are has nothing to do with the other. Highly doubtful that Samsung would take this personally and sacrifice a parts customer. It would, in fact, be pretty ****ing stupid for them to do so. It all comes down to money.

pgiguere1
May 30, 2011, 11:14 AM
While the Galaxy S (and a lot of other smartphones) wouldn't have been this way if it wasn't of the iPhone, I think Apple is going a bit far. Of course Samsung copied a lot of design/UI elements from Apple. But people know that. It's not like they pretended or people had the misconception that Samsung did it first.

I'm proud to be an iPhone owner because Apple did revolutionize the smartphone game. Even if Android phones were unanimously better, I'd still be proud to support the company that started it all.

The iPhone was a better phone overall than what we were used to at the time it came out. That's a fact. Credit to Apple for that. But they can't prevent people from using UI elements that are just plain effective simply because they thought it first.

It's like if Ford patented 4-wheeled motorized cars just because they did it first. They deserve the credit, but other brands coming after weren't going to start making 3-wheeled and 6-wheeled cars if they were not as effective just so they can differentiate themselves. 4-wheeled motorized cars worked well for the past century and will continue to be the most effective way of making a car for a while no matter how much companies will try to bring new ideas to the industry. Sometimes you can't go faster than science and technological progress.

By being strongly inspired by Apple with their Galaxy line, Samsung admitted they weren't able to bring something new to the table that was better than the iPhone's UI. So what? The only other thing they could have done was to make a phone with a UI that's admittedly worse than the iPhone's while being original. They made the choice to have more effective phones despite looking like copycats, lowering the brand's prestige/status. That's fine for me. In the end all consumers end up having better phones, and Samsung has a lower brand status than Apple, like it deserves to. That seems totally fair to me.

ten-oak-druid
May 30, 2011, 11:14 AM
Such blatant copying of a product as samsung has done cannot be allowed.

Shrugging it off is just politics. But I can't imagine Samsung getting away with this.

Remember when Apple copied the competition during the net-book craze? That happened in bizarro world.

iDisk
May 30, 2011, 11:14 AM
Apple should be looking for new vendors however and the minute the contract is up ensure everything Samsung is removed from their products.

I bet they are, thats probably why they're attacking Samsung.

Contracts expire, and new products may not be covered by existing contracts.

There's definitely a bridge.

Exactly! But Apple is doing this for a reason, their not dumb.

Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

As long as consumers keep going crazy for Apple gear and demand is through the roof (been this way for years now), there will be no shortage of suppliers wanting in on the action.

Wake up man, Apple is really trying hard to protect something that isn't really being violated...Apple, needs to just make more great products and innovate to a degree, where if samsung even thought about copying apple, they knew no court in this world would favor their side.

Chengyang
May 30, 2011, 11:15 AM
Samsung is too disgusting to act as a real company

skier777
May 30, 2011, 11:17 AM
Samsung has copied like many others out there to have a similar phone, BUT Samsung ALSO mimics their ads and photos just like Apple whereas other brands position themselves in a different manner. Samsung is clearly trying to exploit the similar design and prescence that the Apple iPhone takes.

Im sorry but last time i checked you couldn't patent an advert. You can copyright it, but simply replacing the phone and the title is change enough to eliminate any problem.

Yes, samsung is trying to market their phones like apple, why should this be illegal. Car companies do this all the time; and most other companies as well.

Why isn't Blackberry suing Nokia over this design? http://www.cameraphonesplaza.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/cell-phones-nokia-2.jpg

*LTD*
May 30, 2011, 11:18 AM
Wake up man, Apple is really trying hard to protect something that isn't really being violated

Of course. It makes no difference. The goal in any case is to lock down your successful design as much as you can to prevent others from even getting close to it. The goal is to corner the market so YOU become the sole supplier of a product in high demand. The goal is to (ideally) not have anyone competing against you at all.

Apple is simply trying to corner the market here and become the sole source for the particular designs that characterize the iphone. It's an *attempt* that is made available to them by law. It comes down to what the courts will decide. So far, they have case.

ten-oak-druid
May 30, 2011, 11:20 AM
This is just the start... It will be years before this is solved...

Samsung will have copied several more versions of the ipad by then (or should I say they will have "rethought" their design several times).

ShiftyPig
May 30, 2011, 11:22 AM
These threads are always such a disaster with the FB's putting on their IP expert hats and having a blind hack at sounding intelligent.

MacAddict1978
May 30, 2011, 11:24 AM
hardly the same phone in the photos...Apple shot is angled and tilted on the side...Samsung is shot angled and tilted on the OTHER side.
Samsung has 4 icons across and 4 down, Apple has 4 down and four across. Apple has a 4-icon block on the bottom, Samsung has a block with 4 icons on the bottom.
Samsung had the screen dots on the top, Apple has them on the bottom. Samsung has its name on the front Apple does not.

Clearly totally different.

Samsung has copied like many others out there to have a similar phone, BUT Samsung ALSO mimics their ads and photos just like Apple whereas other brands position themselves in a different manner. Samsung is clearly trying to exploit the similar design and prescence that the Apple iPhone takes.

@the "Clearly totally different" comment, there a a slew of similarities. Samsung first marketed the "Instinct" (which was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned) fully pitching its similiraties and how it was better than iPhone (it wasn't.) THeir own advertising could bite them. Also, if anyone could just slightly change an angle or an edge on something and call it their own, there would be no design innovation. (Hello Windows PC's!) It's not about cloning. You don't seem to understand what a knock off is. I'm not stating this is a knock off, let the courts do that, but I can see the argument.

What's funny though is you don't see Payless shoes being sued for all it's designer knock offs (that's their business). It's hard to claim ownership of a grid view, but to the average joe that walked into a wirless store that played with someone's iphone once, it would seem almost like a newer version. Moto and HTC both have grids, but their design shouts who made the phone. Samsung's design doesn't shout "Samsung." Touch Wiz is very IOS. Not just in look, but how it's used. These suits aren't about "exact" copies but "likeness" and CLEARLY there is a likeness. The question is how much does Apple own in legal rights to that look, or is Samsung free to use that "likeness" in additional to under the hood technologies. Samsung even has a "doc like" bottom row.

HTC
http://blog.wirelessground.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/htc-sense.jpg

MotoBlur Interface
http://www.wirefresh.com/images/motorola-motoblur.jpg

Palm Web OS
http://www.wizardjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/palm-webos-user-interface.jpg

Well anyone could argue similarities in all of these, none of them SCREAM iPhone like the Samsung interface does. Compare all 4 and now tell me Samsung is "Clearly Totally Different". And yes, the hardware is similar in ways too. So are 100's of other handsets Apple isn't suing over to be fair.

iDisk
May 30, 2011, 11:25 AM
Of course. It makes no difference. The goal in any case is to lock down your successful design as much as you can to prevent others from even getting close to it. The goal is to corner the market so YOU become the sole supplier of a product in high demand. The goal is to (ideally) not have anyone competing against you at all.

Apple is simply trying to corner the market here and become the sole source for the particular designs that characterize the iphone. It's an *attempt* that is made available to them by law. It comes down to what the courts will decide. So far, they have case.

I agree, with that, and if their are clear violations then they should be addressed, but Apple needs to do what Apple does best and thats, make a better product that people Love... Apple WILL Never have the entire world buying their products, and solely going to them. They can dominate a market (like music downloads) but they did that by innovating, not by legal mumbo jumbo.... They need to just innovate and let the product continue to speak for itself

scyap
May 30, 2011, 11:28 AM
While the Galaxy S (and a lot of other smartphones) wouldn't have been this way if it wasn't of the iPhone, I think Apple is going a bit far. Of course Samsung copied a lot of design/UI elements from Apple. But people know that. It's not like they pretended or people had the misconception that Samsung did it first.

I'm proud to be an iPhone owner because Apple did revolutionize the smartphone game. Even if Android phones were unanimously better, I'd still be proud to support the company that started it all.

The iPhone was a better phone overall than what we were used to at the time it came out. That's a fact. Credit to Apple for that. But they can't prevent people from using UI elements that are just plain effective simply because they thought it first.

It's like if Ford patented 4-wheeled motorized cars just because they did it first. They deserve the credit, but other brands coming after weren't going to start making 3-wheeled and 6-wheeled cars if they were not as effective just so they can differentiate themselves. 4-wheeled motorized cars worked well for the past century and will continue to be the most effective way of making a car for a while no matter how much companies will try to bring new ideas to the industry. Sometimes you can't go faster than science and technological progress.

By being strongly inspired by Apple with their Galaxy line, Samsung admitted they weren't able to bring something new to the table that was better than the iPhone's UI. So what? The only other thing they could have done was to make a phone with a UI that's admittedly worse than the iPhone's while being original. They made the choice to have more effective phones despite looking like copycats, lowering the brand's prestige/status. That's fine for me. In the end all consumers end up having better phones, and Samsung has a lower brand status than Apple, like it deserves to. That seems totally fair to me.

very well said :)

Iconoclysm
May 30, 2011, 11:29 AM
Yes, I imagine all those iPhones and Pads working splendidly without their silicon chips.

Right, Samsung is the only company out there that's capable of manufacturing what Apple designs...chips included. Also, you might want to pay attention to the news sometime - Apple is most likely moving their chip manufacturing to another company.

skier777
May 30, 2011, 11:29 AM
It doesn't matter how simple the design is, it's still intellectual property and protected by patents.

Where do you draw the line? Should the company that first came up with the flip phone have the sole rights to the production of any phone with a hinge. Or the company that first created a touchscreen phone be the only one allowed to sell them.

If judges had the same idea as you, there would be severely limited competition for pretty much every product.

skier777
May 30, 2011, 11:31 AM
@the "Clearly totally different" comment, there a a slew of similarities.

He was being sarcastic.

ten-oak-druid
May 30, 2011, 11:32 AM
Where do you draw the line? Should the company that first came up with the flip phone have the sole rights to the production of any phone with a hinge. Or the company that first created a touchscreen phone be the only one allowed to sell them.

If judges had the same idea as you, there would be severely limited competition for pretty much every product.


Samsung patents a cool hinged phone (http://www.mad4mobilephones.com/samsung-patents-a-cool-hinged-phone/742/)

Anyway this is nothing compared to pharmaceutical patents. Prozac patent runs out so a patent for a "new use" is registered just in time...

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 11:33 AM
Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

As long as consumers keep going crazy for Apple gear and demand is through the roof (been this way for years now), there will be no shortage of suppliers wanting in on the action.


You have no idea how easy a company can cause worlds of problems while be "under contract" Shipments can be delayed. If you need an increased order well that might not happen. There are worlds of things Samsung can do to cause Apple problems in terms of supply and nothing Apple could do about it.

Apple should be looking for new vendors however and the minute the contract is up ensure everything Samsung is removed from their products.


Good luck with that. Samsung is one of the largest manufactures of flash chips and LCD. Flash memory there is a shortage of them in the world. Apple would be hard press to fill the void that Samsung would leave for them in a supplier. Samsung on the other hand it would be a cake walk for them to replace the 5% Apple buys and if anything they could sell them for MORE profit because demand exceeds supply and it is only getting worse
@the "Clearly totally different" comment, there a a slew of similarities. Samsung first marketed the "Instinct" (which was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned) fully pitching its similiraties and how it was better than iPhone (it wasn't.) THeir own advertising could bite them. Also, if anyone could just slightly change an angle or an edge on something and call it their own, there would be no design innovation. (Hello Windows PC's!) It's not about cloning. You don't seem to understand what a knock off is. I'm not stating this is a knock off, let the courts do that, but I can see the argument.

What's funny though is you don't see Payless shoes being sued for all it's designer knock offs (that's their business). It's hard to claim ownership of a grid view, but to the average joe that walked into a wirless store that played with someone's iphone once, it would seem almost like a newer version. Moto and HTC both have grids, but their design shouts who made the phone. Samsung's design doesn't shout "Samsung." Touch Wiz is very IOS. Not just in look, but how it's used. These suits aren't about "exact" copies but "likeness" and CLEARLY there is a likeness. The question is how much does Apple own in legal rights to that look, or is Samsung free to use that "likeness" in additional to under the hood technologies. Samsung even has a "doc like" bottom row.

HTC
Image (http://blog.wirelessground.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/htc-sense.jpg)

MotoBlur Interface
Image (http://www.wirefresh.com/images/motorola-motoblur.jpg)

Palm Web OS
Image (http://www.wizardjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/palm-webos-user-interface.jpg)

Well anyone could argue similarities in all of these, none of them SCREAM iPhone like the Samsung interface does. Compare all 4 and now tell me Samsung is "Clearly Totally Different". And yes, the hardware is similar in ways too. So are 100's of other handsets Apple isn't suing over to be fair.

Umm you are showing pictures of a different point. All those pictures are of the Home screen.
The one everyone is showing of Samgsung is of the App Drawer being open. I can promise you if you open the Apple draw of HTC and Motola phone it would look a LOT like Apples iPhone. A 4x4 grid of icons. OMG it is a copy......
Just figured I point out the flaw everyone is saying samsung is coping when really that is the App draw being open.

Iconoclysm
May 30, 2011, 11:34 AM
Where do you draw the line? Should the company that first came up with the flip phone have the sole rights to the production of any phone with a hinge. Or the company that first created a touchscreen phone be the only one allowed to sell them.

If judges had the same idea as you, there would be severely limited competition for pretty much every product.

There's a difference between a couple similarities and so many that you are infringing on a patent.

This suit is about look and feel, Samsung is quite blatant at ripping the iPhone there. And no, there aren't other phones on the market doing this - yet they've all got grids of icons, candybar design, and home buttons. If you can't tell the difference, you're out of your mind.

Iconoclysm
May 30, 2011, 11:37 AM
You have no idea how easy a company can cause worlds of problems while be "under contract" Shipments can be delayed. If you need an increased order well that might not happen. There are worlds of things Samsung can do to cause Apple problems in terms of supply and nothing Apple could do about it.




Good luck with that. Samsung is one of the largest manufactures of flash chips and LCD. Flash memory there is a shortage of them in the world. Apple would be hard press to fill the void that Samsung would leave for them in a supplier. Samsung on the other hand it would be a cake walk for them to replace the 5% Apple buys and if anything they could sell them for MORE profit because demand exceeds supply and it is only getting worse


Umm you are showing pictures of a different point. All those pictures are of the Home screen.
The one everyone is showing of Samgsung is of the App Drawer being open. I can promise you if you open the Apple draw of HTC and Motola phone it would look a LOT like Apples iPhone. A 4x4 grid of icons. OMG it is a copy......
Just figured I point out the flaw everyone is saying samsung is coping when really that is the App draw being open.

What difference does that make? The home screen isn't exactly a UI.

skier777
May 30, 2011, 11:40 AM
One last thing before I leave this discussion for good.

Check this out: http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/White-Sciphone-i68-WIFI-4-Touch-screen-Quad-band-Dual-Sim-card-java-phone-3PCS/135549-2171444.html

http://upload1.tradetang.com/img/b/1011/04/13/135549/13554915365.jpg

I found it advertised on the sidebar of Macrumors.com

People have gotten pretty upset with samsung, yet nobody cares about this...

Why, its basically the same, because the consumer is well aware that they are not getting apple quality when they make the purchase. I apple would have n case suing them because the damages are minimal, these phones are not actually taking anything away from the sales of the iphone, its cheap garbage that looks like the iphone that people buy instead of cheap garbage that doesn't.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 11:40 AM
a friend just got the galaxy s 2 today and omg its so fast, it makes my iphone 4 seem like a 3G.

anyway, it doesnt look like an iPhone at all. yea it has a home button, but my 5 year HTC had a home button

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 11:41 AM
What difference does that make? The home screen isn't exactly a UI.

you argument was using pictures and you are using them from different points in the OS.

For HTC and Motolura you are taking them from the Home screen were the widgets are. Guess what take a look at Touchwiz's home screen and it will look a lot closer to Sense and Motoblur than iOS.

Motoblur in terms of home screen and App draw is closes to stock Android.
What I was pointing out is the argument to say Touchwiz is coping iOS is taking from the App draw. If you open up Motoblur and Sense App draw it would look a lot like iOS as well. a 4x4 grid of icons.

Azathoth
May 30, 2011, 11:44 AM
hardly the same phone in the photos...Apple shot is angled and tilted on the side...Samsung is shot angled and tilted on the OTHER side.
Samsung has 4 icons across and 4 down, Apple has 4 down and four across. Apple has a 4-icon block on the bottom, Samsung has a block with 4 icons on the bottom.
Samsung had the screen dots on the top, Apple has them on the bottom. Samsung has its name on the front Apple does not.

Clearly totally different.


Based on the screen size 4 icon roqs make sense. A grid is the only logical choice (my Nokia had the option of a 'V' and a horseshoe arrangement for icons - those never became popular - I wonder why :P)

Sorry, Apple has patented square and rectangular grid arrangements. And your icons have to be <5mm wide, else it runs afoul of Apple licensing. Ridiculous that these things could be regarded as 'IP'.

ten-oak-druid
May 30, 2011, 11:46 AM
a friend just got the galaxy s 2 today and omg its so fast, it makes my iphone 4 seem like a 3G.

anyway, it doesnt look like an iPhone at all

That's a nice advertisement for the galaxy s 2 you got there.

Anyway I wouldn't bother with the malware infested android OS. Another problem is that there are only two apps for purchase that are actually making money. There are currently many free apps but the developers are getting fed up with the lack of revenue. Given that the developers already have to deal with fragmentation, many of the best will turn to other platforms that are profitable. The android experience will start to suffer.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 11:48 AM
That's a nice advertisement for the galaxy s 2 you got there.

Anyway I wouldn't bother with the malware infested android OS. Another problem is that there are only two apps for purchase that are actually making money. There are currently many free apps but the developers are getting fed up with the lack of revenue. Given that the developers already have to deal with fragmentation, many of the best will turn to other platforms that are profitable. The android experience will start to suffer.

ok, then let me rephrase it, its amazingly fast BUT i still hate those samsung screens, they have some weird yellowish greenish tint to it.

and to get back to the topic, didnt apple originally steal the iPod idea :P

ABernardoJr
May 30, 2011, 11:49 AM
Samsung buys every single god damn products apple makes. What do they do? They tear them apart and have their engineers to make a better product.

Samsung should be ashamed of themselves. They copied.

It's been said before and I'll say it again... When have they made a "better product?"


and to get back to the topic, didnt apple originally steal the iPod idea :P

The lawsuit isn't even about copying the idea of a phone, so what does the "iPod idea" have to do with any of this? Sorry to say but maybe you should just stick to advertising the Galaxy S2 if your attempts to stay on topic aren't even relevant.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 11:51 AM
That's a nice advertisement for the galaxy s 2 you got there.

Anyway I wouldn't bother with the malware infested android OS. Another problem is that there are only two apps for purchase that are actually making money. There are currently many free apps but the developers are getting fed up with the lack of revenue. Given that the developers already have to deal with fragmentation, many of the best will turn to other platforms that are profitable. The android experience will start to suffer.

you might want to check your facts.
Revo (makers of Angery birds) already stated that they make more money off Android than iOS. Also there are some really good paid Apps that I know do really well on Android and people are very willing to pay for.
Also the fragmentation is not as large of an issue as you all try to make it out to be. Design the stuff to use the hooks in the OS and let the OS handle everything.

Also the malware as you put it you are doing nothing but fear mongering and buying the media hype hook line and sinker.

devilstrider
May 30, 2011, 11:52 AM
Steve Jobs: Good artists copy great artists steal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Piggie
May 30, 2011, 11:52 AM
And we must remember, all of this is very bad for the consumer.

Even Apple loyalists should realise the very VERY last thing that we as consumers should want to happen is for people like Apple to be the only ones able to produce X, Y or Z

All that will happen then is they will sit on it and not feel so under pressure.

With other companies producing products that threaten their profits, it makes any company try as hard as they can year after year to offer the very best they can otherwise they will get overtaken.

I'm sure every Apple fan wants Apple to do this. Be pushed to do the very best it can.

If Apple could sit on a pile of lawsuits so that no-one else could make anything else even remotely like an iPhone in any way (like a Samsung, an HTC etc etc) and you think in that world Apple would try as hard, then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.

It's strong competition that drives the industry forward, and no matter what brand you prefer to own, it's good for every single consumer for specs and prices.

paul4339
May 30, 2011, 11:53 AM
Such blatant copying of a product ... But I can't imagine Samsung getting away with this.
...

I agree, 'blatant' is key.

Copying is a valid business model, it reduces business risk when you copy a proven design (just look at the fashion industry and the car industry). However, when you copy TOO much, it increases the risk that someone (like Apple) will litagate.

Ideas are built on other ideas, almost everything is evolutionary. And companies (including Apple) take ideas, design features from each other and build on existing design trends. (Apple/RIM/Palm all took ideas from each other, but their products look different)

"Blatant" is the key word. If they would have copied of 'few features' then I'd say it's basically sour grapes on apples part. But when it's more than a few features (right down to the packaging), trade dress, etc, then it's not just 'improving' on the competition, it's just blatant copying.

Whether they will get away with it, is something different.
When I look at other industries, it seems that often they do get away with it.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 11:55 AM
The lawsuit isn't even about copying the idea of a phone, so what does the "iPod idea" have to do with any of this? Sorry to say but maybe you should just stick to advertising the Galaxy S2 if your attempts to stay on topic aren't even relevant.

u could have bothered reading my whole reply at least :p

ABernardoJr
May 30, 2011, 11:59 AM
I did read the reply, I just quoted the part I was referring to

ThunderSkunk
May 30, 2011, 11:59 AM
And we must remember, all of this is very bad for the consumer... I'm sure every Apple fan wants Apple to do this. Be pushed to do the very best it can..

And I'm sure that whole post was satire, or that's the most myopic, self-serving, unethical viewpoint on IP I've ever read.

peppermonkey
May 30, 2011, 12:03 PM
snip...

Even if Android phones were unanimously better, I'd still be proud to support the company that started it all.

snip...

But they can't prevent people from using UI elements that are just plain effective simply because they thought it first.

snip...


First, I generally have no problems with what you said :)

But please, would people realize for once that Apple was 'Not' the first company to ever come up with the UI consisting of grid rows of icons and/or with one default bottom row of icons that is 'touchable'. And they certainly weren't the first company to 'create' a smart phone.

Frankly they seemed to have copied heavily the basic UI elements of Palm OS, or even RIM to some extent.
Small screen with a grid of icons? Check.
Default bottom grid of icons at the bottom? Check (albeit, from third party launchers for again, Palm devices)
etc. etc.

Now I'm not saying Palm was the first to come out with such ideas as I'm sure some other obscure company has come up with similar ideas.
There really aren't any new ideas. Most everything has been done before. It's only a degree of how successful a company was with said idea.

Apple just simply did it right. They weren't the first out of the block but they were the first out of the block to get all the pieces together in a environment that actually works. Again, Apple didn't invent the concept. They just were better at engineering a system that works with the marketing, support, resources and leadership to make it happen.

ten-oak-druid
May 30, 2011, 12:06 PM
you might want to check your facts.
Revo (makers of Angery birds) already stated that they make more money off Android than iOS. Also there are some really good paid Apps that I know do really well on Android and people are very willing to pay for.
Also the fragmentation is not as large of an issue as you all try to make it out to be. Design the stuff to use the hooks in the OS and let the OS handle everything.

Also the malware as you put it you are doing nothing but fear mongering and buying the media hype hook line and sinker.

Most paid apps in Android Market get under 100 downloads (http://www.phonearena.com/news/Most-paid-apps-in-Android-Market-get-under-100-downloads_id19148)

From the article:

...To back up those claims, stats show that nearly 80% of paid Android applications can’t reach 100 downloads.

To worsen things further, there were only five games on the Market that have passed the 250,000 download threshold, while in the last two months alone, the App Store has registered ten games with over 250,000 downloads in the States alone.

“It is more challenging for developers in the Google Android Market than in the Apple App Store to monetize using a one-off fee monetization model. We found that only two paid applications have been downloaded more than half a million times in the Google Android Market worldwide to date, while six paid applications in the Apple App Store for iPhone generate the same number of downloads within a two month timeframe in the United States alone,” Distimo summarizes.

So you may want to check your facts.

The fragmentation alone isn't an issue. But if you can't make money off it then why bother with all the fragmentation?

I think another OS will replace Android in a few years to compete with iOS or Google will change the android experience to make it more profitable for Android developers.

ShiftyPig
May 30, 2011, 12:06 PM
I think the most embarrassing bit is that this many people are genuinely worked up over two cell phones that both happen to have icon grids. It's Memorial Day FFS... have some perspective.

Bilbo63
May 30, 2011, 12:07 PM
In the corporate world is IMPOSSIBLE to come up with a new idea, it is better to steal someones else's.

Steve Jobs is the only case where the creative mind is as well the decision maker. That is why everybody is waiting to see what Apple does first.

It is better for Samsung to copy than to risk in research and spend in focus groups. Not to mention that if someone comes up with a great idea it may take the position of their own boss/supervisor and usually the person on top of you does not want to get fired or replaced and that person will discourage you. I know because people have done it to me 100 of times.

I feel that this is quite pathetic of Apple... I mean how do you make a one phone not look like another phone. They all tend to be rectangular black things with at least one physical button on the front. Am i missing something here?

Its hard to make them look very different at all... well that is until you see that disgusting monstrosity called a Dell Streak.

Seriously? Have you looked at Windows Phone 7? It's a full-screen multi-touch device, but it does not resemble an iPhone. It can be done. I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, but I'll give them due credit here... They did their own thing. The iPhone was the inspiration, but they did their own thing and did it pretty well.

Samsung won't do that because it's not as risky as copying a device that is a proven runaway hit. No need to do R and D, no need to innovate.

The Samsung exec already admitted that there is no need to do their own software when they can use Google's Android which (thanks to the iPhone) has been very successful. The exec should have continued and admitted that there is no need for Samsung to innovate on the hardware side either when they can just attempt to mimic Apples proven designs.

econgeek
May 30, 2011, 12:07 PM
I hope justice will prevail and Apple will end up owning very large chunks of Samsung, Google, Nokia and HTC, as they deserve.

If it doesn't, Apple will still win in the marketplace.

People know Apple is innovative, and people know Apple is the only one who is being innovative.

Even the apple haters are hating out of jealousy more than anything else.

IF justice doesn't prevail, it will just show how corrupt the judicial system is. This of course isn't news, they already let Microsoft off the hook for ripping off the Mac.

The really pathetic thing is, all the apple haters have to tell lies to try and rationalize their hate. They think they're fooling anybody? And inside, every time they lie, they know it, and they get a little bit more desperate and pathetic.

econgeek
May 30, 2011, 12:09 PM
Seriously? Have you looked at Windows Phone 7? It's a full-screen multi-touch device, but it does not resemble an iPhone

They get credit for coming up with a different UI, but the UI is still multi-touch and this is a UI that Apple invented, and has patented.

Fortunately for Microsoft, they already signed a cross licensing agreement with Apple and have been paying apple significant royalties since the 1990s.... so Apple won't need to sue them.

Multi-touch is Apple's invention.

pubwvj
May 30, 2011, 12:10 PM
Samsung needs to grow up. They copied. They got caught. Bad boys. No go do some real work and get back to business.

jeman
May 30, 2011, 12:11 PM
I beats me how Samsung continues to be blatantly shameless of copying Apple.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 12:13 PM
Multi-touch is Apple's invention.

i thought this is only true for the US and samsung isnt a US company, that's why the Palm Pre always had Multitouch in Europe and was blocked on US Palm Pre's

and btw r we really worked up over icon's? my first nokia phone had icon grids

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 12:14 PM
I think the most embarrassing bit is that this many people are genuinely worked up over two cell phones that both happen to have icon grids. It's Memorial Day FFS... have some perspective.

What's a memorial day ? (Hint : Not all Macrumors posters are from the US ;) )

i thought this is only true for the US and samsung isnt a US company, that's why the Palm Pre always had Multitouch in Europe and was blocked on US Palm Pre's

Multi-touch is not even an Apple invention in the US. It's been around and demoed for quite a while, even before Apple bought Fingerworks, the company responsible for their own implementation of multi-touch (yes, Apple didn't innovate, they purchased it).

Vegasman
May 30, 2011, 12:17 PM
Multi-touch is Apple's invention.

Puh-lease....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch

pgiguere1
May 30, 2011, 12:18 PM
First, I generally have no problems with what you said :)

But please, would people realize for once that Apple was 'Not' the first company to ever come up with the UI consisting of grid rows of icons and/or with one default bottom row of icons that is 'touchable'. And they certainly weren't the first company to 'create' a smart phone.

Frankly they seemed to have copied heavily the basic UI elements of Palm OS, or even RIM to some extent.
Small screen with a grid of icons? Check.
Default bottom grid of icons at the bottom? Check (albeit, from third party launchers for again, Palm devices)
etc. etc.

Now I'm not saying Palm was the first to come out with such ideas as I'm sure some other obscure company has come up with similar ideas.
There really aren't any new ideas. Most everything has been done before. It's only a degree of how successful a company was with said idea.

Apple just simply did it right. They weren't the first out of the block but they were the first out of the block to get all the pieces together in a environment that actually works. Again, Apple didn't invent the concept. They just were better at engineering a system that works with the marketing, support, resources and leadership to make it happen.

You're very right. The "it" was referring to the smartphone revolution I was talking about in the previous sentence, not the smartphone's UI or smartphones in general. More specifically the smartphone revolution for mass consumers, as the business smartphone market has already been revolutionized by RIM. Apple didn't invent the smartphone, they made it accessible to the mass through clever marketing and user-friendliness. The same way they didn't invent the portable media player, legal digital downloads nor the tablet. They still changed the marked and influenced other companies more than the original creator of these gadgets. That's what Apple always does and will likely continue doing.

Bilbo63
May 30, 2011, 12:18 PM
They get credit for coming up with a different UI, but the UI is still multi-touch and this is a UI that Apple invented, and has patented.

Fortunately for Microsoft, they already signed a cross licensing agreement with Apple and have been paying apple significant royalties since the 1990s.... so Apple won't need to sue them.

Multi-touch is Apple's invention.

Is Multi-Touch really Apple's invention? I'm not saying that it isn't, because I'm not sure. I thought that it originated elsewhere. I thought that Apple patented certain multi-touch gestures and might own the trade name "Multi-Touch", but I'm not so sure that they actually invented the underlying technology.

Do you know for sure that it was their invention?

AwakenedLands
May 30, 2011, 12:21 PM
Did Samsung really need to call the phone the i9000? It couldn't have been any other letter in front of it?

SmileyBlast!
May 30, 2011, 12:25 PM
I hope justice will prevail and Apple will end up owning very large chunks of Samsung, Google, Nokia and HTC, as they deserve.

If it doesn't, Apple will still win in the marketplace.

People know Apple is innovative, and people know Apple is the only one who is being innovative.

Even the apple haters are hating out of jealousy more than anything else.

IF justice doesn't prevail, it will just show how corrupt the judicial system is. This of course isn't news, they already let Microsoft off the hook for ripping off the Mac.

The really pathetic thing is, all the apple haters have to tell lies to try and rationalize their hate. They think they're fooling anybody? And inside, every time they lie, they know it, and they get a little bit more desperate and pathetic.
I'm hoping for the same thing. And they should have to pay Apple a royalty fee (a small percentage for every Samsung phone sold) at the minimum if they borrowed heavily from the Apple Designs.

LegendKillerUK
May 30, 2011, 12:27 PM
How many times will that image of an iPhone 3G be used under the name of 3GS.

pgiguere1
May 30, 2011, 12:31 PM
Is Multi-Touch really Apple's invention? I'm not saying that it isn't, because I'm not sure. I thought that it originated elsewhere. I thought that Apple patented certain multi-touch gestures and might own the trade name "Multi-Touch", but I'm not so sure that they actually invented the underlying technology.

Do you know for sure that it was their invention?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks

AFAIK, the first commercial company to use Multi-Touch was FingerWorks, co-founded in 1998 by Wayne Westerman (and a professor in his department) who studied Multi-Touch and made a PhD Dissertation about it in 1999: http://www.ece.udel.edu/~westerma/main.pdf

A lot of other companies used similar touch input after that. Apple bought FingerWorks in 2005 and trademarked the term "Multi-Touch".

AidenShaw
May 30, 2011, 12:32 PM
Is Multi-Touch really Apple's invention? I'm not saying that it isn't, because I'm not sure. I thought that it originated elsewhere. I thought that Apple patented certain multi-touch gestures and might own the trade name "Multi-Touch", but I'm not so sure that they actually invented the underlying technology.

Do you know for sure that it was their invention?

From the link posted above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitouch

Multi-touch technology began in 1982, when the University of Toronto's Input Research Group developed the first human-input multi-touch system. The system used a frosted-glass panel with a camera placed behind the glass. When a finger or several fingers pressed on the glass, the camera would detect the action as one or more black spots on an otherwise white background, allowing it to be registered as an input. Since the size of a dot was dependent on pressure (how hard the person was pressing on the glass), the system was somewhat pressure-sensitive as well.

In 1983, Bell Labs at Murray Hill published a comprehensive discussion of touch-screen based interfaces. In 1984, Bell Labs engineered a touch screen that could change images with more than one hand. In 1985, the University of Toronto group including Bill Buxton developed a multi-touch tablet that used capacitance rather than bulky camera-based optical sensing systems.

A breakthrough occurred in 1991, when Pierre Wellner published a paper on his multi-touch “Digital Desk”, which supported multi-finger and pinching motions.

Lone Deranger
May 30, 2011, 12:32 PM
While I'm not sure about this suit and all the particulars of the patent...... which phone and UI's looked like the iPhone before the iPhone? They definitely looked different before the iPhone and phones (smart phones) are starting to look incredibly similar after the iPhone. Whether it's flattery or theft of design....... I'm not sure; thank god it's not my job to figure it all out :D

Agreed. Many people have forgotten this.
As an example... take the Nokia n-Gage. The best that the most powerful mobile phone of the time could come up with. It was an utter farce.

Then the iPhone was announced and the narrow minded, stuck in a rut mobile phone industry laughed at the touchscreen interface, the price, the GUI, etc. Many even doubted one could properly type on it. I vividly remember all those debates. And look at the state of the industry now.... they are all taking hints (to put it very mildly) from Apple. Some more than others. Love them or loathe them, Apple revolutionized the industry (again).

ten-oak-druid
May 30, 2011, 12:34 PM
I agree, 'blatant' is key.

Copying is a valid business model, it reduces business risk when you copy a proven design (just look at the fashion industry and the car industry). However, when you copy TOO much, it increases the risk that someone (like Apple) will litagate.

Ideas are built on other ideas, almost everything is evolutionary. And companies (including Apple) take ideas, design features from each other and build on existing design trends. (Apple/RIM/Palm all took ideas from each other, but their products look different)

"Blatant" is the key word. If they would have copied of 'few features' then I'd say it's basically sour grapes on apples part. But when it's more than a few features (right down to the packaging), trade dress, etc, then it's not just 'improving' on the competition, it's just blatant copying.

Whether they will get away with it, is something different.
When I look at other industries, it seems that often they do get away with it.

Exactly. You can't blame the competition for abandoning net books in favor of tablets after Apple created a new market with the ipad. But the competition should at least try to do something unique. There are some tablets out there that are somewhat different. I realize it is hard to get around the basic shape but at least try. But the Galaxy tablet is just too similar the ipad to be anything but a copy.

kenypowa
May 30, 2011, 12:34 PM
In the end, this isn't something that is going to have an impact on Samsung, Apple or the customers involved. Petty politics.

Ohh you wish :p, the money paid to lawyers will be recouped from customers by both companies.

smithrh
May 30, 2011, 12:35 PM
For many years (pre iPhone even), Samsung has been known as Same-sung in the cellular device industry.

That is, their products are the same as yours... just 6 months after you released yours.

As others have pointed out, being a "fast follower" is a valid business model, one that Samsung has been using for a very long time now. The legal question here does not revolve around that, it revolves around whether or not Sammy has copied patented work, if that's the case then there will be ramifications.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 12:35 PM
Is Apple going to attack Samsung because they used the color black or it has the earpiece at the top? Should whoever made the two-door coupe first sue everyone else who makes one?

The suit shouldn't be about whether they look similar because they do. IT'S A FREAKING PHONE (not a laptop, not a tablet, not a TV, etc...) Only so many variations exist. It's about whether Samsung purposefully designed and marketed to confuse customers into thinking it's an iPhone, and that should be a lot harder to prove.

look at the windows phone 7. the HTC phones and motorola, they don't look anything like the iPhone, the samsung galaxy s looks like a cheap knockoff of the iPhone, even more so when they use the app drawer in the marketing pics, which is 90% of the time. the other devices app drawers are not so much blatant ripoffs.


Umm you are showing pictures of a different point. All those pictures are of the Home screen.
The one everyone is showing of Samgsung is of the App Drawer being open. I can promise you if you open the Apple draw of HTC and Motola phone it would look a LOT like Apples iPhone. A 4x4 grid of icons. OMG it is a copy......
Just figured I point out the flaw everyone is saying samsung is coping when really that is the App draw being open.

well since samsung advertised the phone showing the app drawer as a main screen, it's fair enough that people compare the 2 as such!!

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 12:44 PM
Ohh you wish :p, the money paid to lawyers will be recouped from customers by both companies.

Costs of doing business. In this day and age, lawyers are already part of the budget for all firms. We already pay for this.

the samsung galaxy s looks like a cheap knockoff of the iPhone,

Which Samsung Galaxy S ? Why doesn't anybody ever qualify that statement ? (Don't answer that, I know why). There are quite a few models that are branded Galaxy S by Samsung and most of them bear no ressemblance to the iPhone, and those that do only do so from certain angles/POVs.

ShiningShiny
May 30, 2011, 12:49 PM
If people wanted an iPhone, they won't buy a Galaxy.

The TouchWhiz icons looking too similar to the iOS ones were pretty much a legit claim, but once Apple started bringing in the whole "They are purposely trying to confuse people into buying a Galaxy instead of an iPhone" was where the case fell off the edge for me.

The Galaxy is not cheaper than the iPhone 3GS. So, if you were a consumer wanting a Galaxy 3GS, you won't be buying a Galaxy S just because the designs are the same.

Let's say you wanted to buy a BMW. Brand X from China makes a knock-off that looks the same. They both are priced at the same range (or knockoff brand X is even more expensive). Would the fact that brand X looks exactly like the BMW you wanted to buy influence your decision in choosing the car? No - you would go for the BMW.

The only way Apple can keep the whole "Trick users into buying a Galaxy instead of iPhone via design similarity" alive is if they admit that the Galaxy S looks like an iPhone 3GS, but is better in some way. Without something like that, there is no way to say that people are buying the Galaxy S just because it looks like the iPhone they wanted.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 12:50 PM
Which Samsung Galaxy S ? Why doesn't anybody ever qualify that statement ? (Don't answer that, I know why). There are quite a few models that are branded Galaxy S by Samsung and most of them bear no ressemblance to the iPhone, and those that do only do so from certain angles/POVs.

this one http://www.newcellphonesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Samsung-Galaxy-S-cell-phone-04.jpg

and they look like it from the angles and POV that SAMSUNG themselves market it!!! that's the whole point!

like i said, compare the HTC phones, the Motorola phones and the windows phones, do any of them look remotely like the iPhone? no. Unlike Samsung.

If people wanted an iPhone, they won't buy a Galaxy.

The TouchWhiz icons looking too similar to the iOS ones were pretty much a legit claim, but once Apple started bringing in the whole "They are purposely trying to confuse people into buying a Galaxy instead of an iPhone" was where the case fell off the edge for me.

The Galaxy is not cheaper than the iPhone 3GS. So, if you were a consumer wanting a Galaxy 3GS, you won't be buying a Galaxy S just because the designs are the same.

The only way Apple can keep the whole "Trick users into buying a Galaxy instead of iPhone via design similarity" alive is if they admit that the Galaxy S looks like an iPhone 3GS, but is better in some way. Without something like that, there is no way to say that people are buying the Galaxy S just because it looks like the iPhone they wanted.

Actually, i know a few people who are not tech heads, who confused the 2 as they saw a galaxy s that had the samsung logo removed off the front, so it can be done. people on here are too much technical minded to be a fair judge.

plus some networks in the UK were giving away the Galaxy S for free on contract whilst the iPhone was still going for 200 or so on contract, so yea, the Galaxy S would be cheaper.

iCrizzo
May 30, 2011, 12:52 PM
"Samsung Seemingly Unconcerned Over Apple Lawsuit, Hints Dispute Could Continue to Escalate"


If they are unconcerned why escalate then?:confused:

Vegasman
May 30, 2011, 01:01 PM
"amsung Seemingly Unconcerned Over Apple Lawsuit, Hints Dispute Could Continue to Escalate"


If they are unconcerned why escalate then?:confused:

Because Apple won't let it go?

jav6454
May 30, 2011, 01:01 PM
The research has already been done.

The courts have ordered Samsung to hand over the goods to Apple.

Now we're waiting for Apple's next move.

1. No it hasn't

2. And? Samsung filed for the same treatment.


3. There isn't much Apple can do, this reminds me of the early lawsuit of Apple v Microsoft for copying the look and feel of Mac OS into Windows 1.x

ssk2
May 30, 2011, 01:08 PM
I didn't realise MR was home to so many IP lawyers... Oh wait.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:08 PM
this one http://www.newcellphonesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Samsung-Galaxy-S-cell-phone-04.jpg

and they look like it from the angles and POV that SAMSUNG themselves market it!!! that's the whole point!

That one ? You're sure :

http://www.vandegoor.com/beta/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Final_Samsung_Galaxy_S_Front_Side_Back.jpg.jpg

Oops, different angles tell a different story. From the side, no similarity. From the back, no similarity. Do I need to go into details here ?

From the front ? Only if you believe the bevel is actually chrome and not blackish. It's also a different shape (it's not flush with the screen like the 3GS's and 3G's bevel). The home button is quite different and there are 2 extra capacitive buttons on the front. Not to mention the big SAMSUNG right there... It's also much bigger than the iPhone :

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zt80y-ElS5k/TM4cAMeXAPI/AAAAAAAACmE/hNPGUgDeIco/s1600/Samsung+Galaxy+S+i9000_1.JPG

The UI is the same ? Not really :

http://www.mymobiles.com/mobile-phones-photos/3091/1/samsung-galaxy-s-i9000-16gb-extralarge.jpg

Where's the icon grid ? Notice also the page indicators, while round and in a line, they are completely different from iOS. This is the homescreen, no icon grid there. Only a dock with widgets. Sure can't confuse that with iOS...

Again, if you go outside the media hype on this story, you can see this isn't going to be an easy win for Apple. And the Samsung Galaxy S i9000 is only 1 model of Samsung Galaxy S line-up, the other phones are quite different and if you mistake them for iPhones, I have bad news for you :

Epic :

http://www.userguidemanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/SamsungGalaxySEpic4GSPHD700ManualUserGuidePDF.jpg

Fascinate :

http://www.miltonetto.net/images/Verizon-Samsung-Galaxy-S-Fascinate.jpg

Captivate :

http://tehgeek.com/storage/post-images/galaxy-s-captivate.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1289666155637

Vibrant (this is the only other model based on the i9000) :

http://www.hardwaresphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/samsung-vibrant-galaxy-s-phone.jpg

So please guys, again, go beyond the Apple cherry picked evidence pictures go and try to look at this objectively. This isn't the blatant copying it's made out to be.

ABernardoJr
May 30, 2011, 01:12 PM
The sooner Apple realise they cant stop the power of Android the better. If they spent less time trying to sue people they might have been able to make iOS have decent notifications and widgets. :rolleyes:

The power of Android? Is that why Apple's suing Samsung for blatantly copying iOS and why Apple's *not* getting sued for copying Android? :rolleyes:

paul4339
May 30, 2011, 01:12 PM
.. and Apple will end up owning very large chunks of Samsung, Google, Nokia and HTC, as they deserve...

They all copy off of each other to some degree... this is just an exceptional case where it's 'blatant' copying of trade dress, etc.

... Apple will still win in the marketplace.


The data does not fully support this. Apple is keeping it's market share (barely) in smartphones, but is currently dominating in the tablet market.

... Apple is the only one who is being innovative...

I'm not so sure it's the only one but it does have a knack for putting together lots of new features, marketing to the right audience, and timing it well.

... People know Apple is innovative...

Completely agree.
It baffles me on how techies will keep grasping back into history pulling up odd facts trying prove something; or arguing right down to the grammer and word meanings & definitions; attributing success to just hype ... but when you talk to most people, they still know Apple as innovative.

Apple has anticipated products (hype or otherwise, it's new and fresh to most people) ... I don't see SamsungRumors.com, or SamsungInsider.com, 9to5 Galaxy S as being too popular. I wonder why?

...
Even the apple haters are hating out of jealousy more than anything else.
...

I think it's just that apple isn't suited for everyone and people have different experience/needs/biases and viewpoints, and many like to express their points of views... some more vehement than others...

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:13 PM
The power of Android? Is that why Apple's suing Samsung for blatantly copying iOS and why Apple's *not* getting sued for copying Android? :rolleyes:

Doesn't change the market share numbers. ;)

ShiningShiny
May 30, 2011, 01:16 PM
this one http://www.newcellphonesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Samsung-Galaxy-S-cell-phone-04.jpg

and they look like it from the angles and POV that SAMSUNG themselves market it!!! that's the whole point!

like i said, compare the HTC phones, the Motorola phones and the windows phones, do any of them look remotely like the iPhone? no. Unlike Samsung.



Actually, i know a few people who are not tech heads, who confused the 2 as they saw a galaxy s that had the samsung logo removed off the front, so it can be done. people on here are too much technical minded to be a fair judge.

plus some networks in the UK were giving away the Galaxy S for free on contract whilst the iPhone was still going for 200 or so on contract, so yea, the Galaxy S would be cheaper.

Oh, didn't know about that, well then, yeah, of course if it's cheaper in the UK, then that makes a valid point.

But I don't know why your friends ever ran across models that didn't have the Samsung logo o_O I might just be ignorant, but from all the various Galaxy models I've seen marketed, every single one of them had the big Samsung logo on the phone.

fjpoblam
May 30, 2011, 01:16 PM
I really wish the guys who invented the alphabet and the wheel would still be around and sue the **** out of schools and the entire automobile industry. Hey, maybe we could even resurrect Johannes Gensfleisch zum Gutenberg to sue the crap out of the publishing industry for using unlicensed printing machines.

That would teach the world how ridiculously stupid the ideas of "intellectual property" and patents are.

Only huge corporations actually benefit from the patent and intellectual property system as it is (just try suing a billion dollar corporation for not respecting your patent when you are a one man shop), so all we can do is hope that they ruin themselves with it.

(From Uncle John's Bathroom Reader:) "To demonstrate flaws in the patent system, in 2001 an Australian lawyer patented the wheel." :D

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 01:19 PM
So please guys, again, go beyond the Apple cherry picked evidence pictures go and try to look at this objectively. This isn't the blatant copying it's made out to be.

haha, Apple cherry picked??? SAMSUNG marketed the Galaxy S (i9000, whatever you wanna call it) with the angles/POV that make it look like the iPhone and with the iOS ripoff app drawer as a home screen!

look here on the list of samsung phones on their own site - http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/type/viewall.do?group=mobile-devices&type=smartphones

but funny that you decide to ignore that whole fact..........

EDIT - Look at this pic from the samsung site, ripping off iBooks!

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/flagship_/galaxys/galaxys_feature2.jpg

Oh, didn't know about that, well then, yeah, of course if it's cheaper in the UK, then that makes a valid point.

But I don't know why your friends ever ran across models that didn't have the Samsung logo o_O I might just be ignorant, but from all the various Galaxy models I've seen marketed, every single one of them had the big Samsung logo on the phone.

i've seen quite a few over here that don't have it on the front, not sure if its a carrier thing or what.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 01:20 PM
duplicate post....

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:23 PM
Oh, didn't know about that, well then, yeah, of course if it's cheaper in the UK, then that makes a valid point.

In the UK, the iPhone 4 is also offered free by some carriers, so his point isn't valid at all. :rolleyes:

haha, Apple cherry picked??? SAMSUNG marketed the Galaxy S (i9000, whatever you wanna call it) with the angles/POV that make it look like the iPhone and with the iOS ripoff app drawer as a home screen!

but funny that you decide to ignore that whole fact..........

Irrelevant, design patents don't cover marketing material, only actual design. And how did I find all those shots of the Samsung phones not looking like the iPhone if Samsung only made promo shots that do look like iPhone ? Maybe I'm some sort of Wizard ? :rolleyes:

Drop the "Apple is never in the wrong!". Let's let the courts decide this one.


EDIT - Look at this pic from the samsung site, ripping off iBooks!


Just saw that edit. You do realise that is the most ironic and funny thing I've read. iBooks ripped their UI right out of Delicious Library... I guess that's why Apple didn't include that one in their lawsuit, so that they didn't look like a bunch of hypocrites. :rolleyes:

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 01:27 PM
Doesn't change the market share numbers. ;)

So does the profit numbers.

Whatever keeps people happy here.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 01:30 PM
In the UK, the iPhone 4 is also offered free by some carriers, so his point isn't valid at all. :rolleyes:



Irrelevant, design patents don't cover marketing material, only actual design. And how did I find all those shots of the Samsung phones not looking like the iPhone if Samsung only made promo shots that do look like iPhone ? Maybe I'm some sort of Wizard ? :rolleyes:

Drop the "Apple is never in the wrong!". Let's let the courts decide this one.

As i said, 90% of the pics are with the app drawer that rips off iOS, but nice to see you're twisting things. plus design wise to does look like the iPhone from the front. this whole lawsuit would have been thrown out by now if there was no merit to the claims, so really you've already been proven wrong.

I never said apple is never in the wrong, hell i am waiting for a new notification system for starters. I'm not a fan of Mac, i love windows 7.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:34 PM
this whole lawsuit would have been thrown out by now if there was no merit to the claims, so really you've already been proven wrong.

Uh ? Haven't been following US Justice much ? Lawsuits like this take years, even though they don't have merit. Look at SCO v IBM and SCO v. Novell. Still not resolved even though SCO were proved in court during discovery to have no case at all back in 2004...

I've addressed both your other points, choose to ignore my points and we can't have a meaningful discussion about this. From the front, they don't even look the same (bevel is black and different shaped, buttons are different, size is different) and the marketing shots are not what you make them out to be (Samsung uses all sorts of shots).

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 01:37 PM
Uh ? Haven't been following US Justice much ? Lawsuits like this take years, even though they don't have merit. Look at SCO v IBM and SCO v. Novell. Still not resolved even though SCO were proved in court during discovery to have no case at all back in 2004...

I've addressed both your other points, choose to ignore my points and we can't have a meaningful discussion about this. From the front, they don't even look the same (bevel is black and different shaped, buttons are different, size is different) and the marketing shots are not what you make them out to be (Samsung uses all sorts of shots).

it's funny you didn't comment on the fact that samsung's own site, the link i provided, shows the samsung galaxy s (i900 to be specific), marketed from the front with the app drawer up as a main screen, looking just like an iPhone ripoff....

enough people have commented on it looking like a cheap knockoff, so there's merit to it.

again, look at the HTC phones, Motorola phones, etc, not a single one of them looks like an iPhone from any angle.

but i'll leave you to your denial.

and no, i've not followed US justice as i'm not american and i have a life......

SockRolid
May 30, 2011, 01:37 PM
[...] Shin does note, however, that the dispute could continue to escalate, although he apparently has not elaborated on potential scenarios. [...]

He's bluffing. And bluffing is what you do when you don't even have any FUD to spread.

bruinsrme
May 30, 2011, 01:38 PM
Apple should be looking for new vendors however and the minute the contract is up ensure everything Samsung is removed from their products.

First you half to take into consideration the capital investment required to produce such products. Secondly, if you start using multiple vendors there is considerable amount of risk with mixing and matching parts. Capacity is always an issue at manufacturing plants.
Making a semiconductor device can take up to 65 days from raw materials to the chip without it's packaging.
The numbers needed by Apple can not easily be met by many.
However, there is one company with significant fab space looking for customers. Intel stands to become a strong partner of apple because of their manufacturing capacity.
Samsung will continue forging ahead with the hundreds ofnother products they produce

the8thark
May 30, 2011, 01:40 PM
Watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Right from the mouth of Jobs:
"Good artists copy but great artists steal"
So Samaung are great artists cause they stole (ideas) from Apple?

oliversl
May 30, 2011, 01:43 PM
Wow, Samsung is real macho!

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:43 PM
but i'll leave you to your denial.

Funny how I'm in denial, yet I seem to be the only that bothered checking the phone from every angle and bothered to find out about the UI behind it. :rolleyes:

Where is the denial in my posts ? I'm just saying this isn't as clear cut as some of you make it out to be by using words like "blatant" and "rip-off".

Seems to be it's you guys that are in denial that this might not be as clear cut as you think it is.

and no, i've not followed US justice as i'm not american and i have a life......

Then how can you make statements like the fact this wasn't thrown out so it has merit ? If you don't know US justice, don't comment US justice.

Anyway, I don't know why I keep arguing with you, the fact is, the courts will decide the outcome. No matter what happens, my life is not impacted by this at all, nor do I worship Apple enough to prevent me from sleeping at night.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 01:46 PM
Watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Right from the mouth of Jobs:
"Good artists copy but great artists steal"
So Samaung are great artists cause they stole (ideas) from Apple?

True. That's a very popular video.

Sure samsung have done a great job looking at some of the features, the iPhone was popular for; or in other words - symbolic.

But that's not the point. Most of the features, the iPhone had were copied... copied is not a good word here.
Most of the features, the iPhone had were implemented and conceived by other phones in a much appreciable/commendable way.

Samsung in my opinion, went to far to actually mimic the iPhone for what it was. I won't call that a steal. That's just sad to me.

With so many resources, they could have done much better without mimicking the iPhone in a lot of respects.

You wouldn't know, Samsung could have come out with TouchWiz 5.0 with Helvetica and very similar icons. Who knows.

There's a point and then it gets dirty.

Bilbo63
May 30, 2011, 01:48 PM
That one ? You're sure :

http://www.vandegoor.com/beta/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Final_Samsung_Galaxy_S_Front_Side_Back.jpg.jpg

Oops, different angles tell a different story. From the side, no similarity. From the back, no similarity. Do I need to go into details here ?

From the front ? Only if you believe the bevel is actually chrome and not blackish. It's also a different shape (it's not flush with the screen like the 3GS's and 3G's bevel). The home button is quite different and there are 2 extra capacitive buttons on the front. Not to mention the big SAMSUNG right there... It's also much bigger than the iPhone :

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zt80y-ElS5k/TM4cAMeXAPI/AAAAAAAACmE/hNPGUgDeIco/s1600/Samsung+Galaxy+S+i9000_1.JPG

The UI is the same ? Not really :

http://www.mymobiles.com/mobile-phones-photos/3091/1/samsung-galaxy-s-i9000-16gb-extralarge.jpg

Where's the icon grid ? Notice also the page indicators, while round and in a line, they are completely different from iOS. This is the homescreen, no icon grid there. Only a dock with widgets. Sure can't confuse that with iOS...

Again, if you go outside the media hype on this story, you can see this isn't going to be an easy win for Apple. And the Samsung Galaxy S i9000 is only 1 model of Samsung Galaxy S line-up, the other phones are quite different and if you mistake them for iPhones, I have bad news for you :

Epic :

http://www.userguidemanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/SamsungGalaxySEpic4GSPHD700ManualUserGuidePDF.jpg

Fascinate :

http://www.miltonetto.net/images/Verizon-Samsung-Galaxy-S-Fascinate.jpg

Captivate :

http://tehgeek.com/storage/post-images/galaxy-s-captivate.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1289666155637

Vibrant (this is the only other model based on the i9000) :

http://www.hardwaresphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/samsung-vibrant-galaxy-s-phone.jpg

So please guys, again, go beyond the Apple cherry picked evidence pictures go and try to look at this objectively. This isn't the blatant copying it's made out to be.

SOME of Samsung's interface designs clearly copy Apples. No question.

It is actually YOU that are Cherry picking images. All you have proven is that while Samsung clearly ripped off a lot of Apple's look and feel, they didn't copy everything. Good job, but Apple has no problem with areas that don't mimic their work.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 01:50 PM
SOME of Samsung's interface designs clearly copy Apples. No question.

It is actually YOU that are Cherry picking images. All you have proven is that while Samsung clearly ripped off a lot of Apple's look and feel, they didn't copy everything. Good job, but Apple has no problem with areas that don't mimic their work.

No matter what happens, is your life impacted by this at all? Is your Apple worship preventing you from sleeping at night?

Hey, be honest.

kiljoy616
May 30, 2011, 01:52 PM
Apple last week was granted access to unreleased (albeit already announced)

This is a funny thing to say. Most company announce what they are bring out long before they do. Its only Apple that hides everything till the end. Steve has to have that hour of fame introducing what is new for this year. Don't get me wrong its fun to speculate on what he will talk about, but to say that Samsung has already announced products well dah its not like they keep it secret which is only really seen with Apple.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 01:54 PM
SOME of Samsung's interface designs clearly copy Apples. No question.

It is actually YOU that are Cherry picking images. All you have proven is that while Samsung clearly ripped off a lot of Apple's look and feel, they didn't copy everything. Good job, but Apple has no problem with areas that don't mimic their work.

you are going to have to explain how knight cherry pick when he used multiple images other the standard one used by the people here screaming Apple is right.

THe image everyone uses to say Apple is right is shot only from the font and has the size of the device change in the picture to look like the same size as the iPhone.

I think it is the one screaming Apple is right that is cherry picking because when supplied with the list Knight showed it complete kills the argument.

Also as knight pointed out marketing material is not exactly relevant in the argument.

Apple iOS is like an always open App draw on Android phone. It lacks all the other features.

Mac-Rumours
May 30, 2011, 01:56 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8C148)

hardly the same phone in the photos...Apple shot is angled and tilted on the side...Samsung is shot angled and tilted on the OTHER side.
Samsung has 4 icons across and 4 down, Apple has 4 down and four across. Apple has a 4-icon block on the bottom, Samsung has a block with 4 icons on the bottom.
Samsung had the screen dots on the top, Apple has them on the bottom. Samsung has its name on the front Apple does not.

Clearly totally different.

Samsung has copied like many others out there to have a similar phone, BUT Samsung ALSO mimics their ads and photos just like Apple whereas other brands position themselves in a different manner. Samsung is clearly trying to exploit the similar design and prescence that the Apple iPhone takes.

Exactly. Samsung's iPhone doesn't look anything like the Apple.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:56 PM
SOME of Samsung's interface designs clearly copy Apples. No question.

Clearly ? No Question ? You a judge on this case ? No ? Then you can't make grand sweeping statements like this until we have a judgement.

I showed how this case is muddier than it seems. Even in the interface cues (what's left besides the app drawer icon grid which is just a blatant rip off of every icon based interface before it anyhow ?)

ABernardoJr
May 30, 2011, 01:56 PM
Funny how I'm in denial, yet I seem to be the only that bothered checking the phone from every angle and bothered to find out about the UI behind it. :rolleyes:

Where is the denial in my posts ? I'm just saying this isn't as clear cut as some of you make it out to be by using words like "blatant" and "rip-off".

Seems to be it's you guys that are in denial that this might not be as clear cut as you think it is.



Then how can you make statements like the fact this wasn't thrown out so it has merit ? If you don't know US justice, don't comment US justice.

Anyway, I don't know why I keep arguing with you, the fact is, the courts will decide the outcome. No matter what happens, my life is not impacted by this at all, nor do I worship Apple enough to prevent me from sleeping at night.

You claim this doesn't mean anything to you, and yet you "seem to be the only that bothered checking the phone from every angle and bothered to find out about the UI behind it." Yea, and we all worship Apple so much that we can't sleep at night.

You seem to enjoy acting as if you are vastly more mature and intellectual than most of us around here, and yet you contradict yourself quite frequently and resort to immature "worshipping Apple" quips that hold no water whatsoever. Step off the high horse. (Although I'm unsure if you realize how elitist you come across as)

IconicM
May 30, 2011, 01:57 PM
I read an article a while back about an American that worked in the auto industry in Japan. He commented that it was part of Japanese culture to copy. One example he gave was of Honda engineers supposedly getting into a then new, just released camry model with tape measure in hand.

I think highly of Japanese engineering and thought they would have more "craftsmanship" in their blood lines and more pride in their design work. Maybe the American's observation might have been a bit off? So I talked to a Japanese friend of mine about the article, and about the Americans observation..."is it true that this is common in the Japanese culture" I asked. "Yes" he said, "Americans should do that more". I was really surprised he would just point blank say that.

Anyway, one data point and a bit anecdotal, but to me the phones look pretty much the same. If you took samsungs name off and stick apple on it, I would say it's the iPhone 3 GX or some closely related cousin to the 3GS.

kiljoy616
May 30, 2011, 01:59 PM
Seriously? Have you looked at Windows Phone 7? It's a full-screen multi-touch device, but it does not resemble an iPhone. It can be done. I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, but I'll give them due credit here... They did their own thing. The iPhone was the inspiration, but they did their own thing and did it pretty well.

Samsung won't do that because it's not as risky as copying a device that is a proven runaway hit. No need to do R and D, no need to innovate.


What are you babbling about?

Samsung makes hardware, Apple even uses Samsung hardware. The UI is Android or did you just decide to forget that. Microsoft UI is different true but only in that the first part of the phone that we have seen. I figure the rest is about the same, plus MS is throwing everything into the UI like they do with Windows that way they don't have to worry if 3rd party developers take their time jumping into the fray.

Every phone out there looks like every smart phone one way or another Apple is full of it self just happen I figure they want something from Samsung and this is a good way to get it. Have you even looked at all the smart phones from Samsung have you?

http://www.samsung.com/us/article/turn-your-tv-on-to-a-galaxy-of-remote-possibilities

They don't take chances, right fangirl.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 02:00 PM
You claim this doesn't mean anything to you, and yet you "seem to be the only that bothered checking the phone from every angle and bothered to find out about the UI behind it." Yea, and we all worship Apple so much that we can't sleep at night.

Yes, fact checking a story before participating in the discussion on it is clearly a sign that this impacts me to the fullest.

You seem to enjoy acting as if you are vastly more mature and intellectual than most of us around here, and yet you contradict yourself quite frequently and resort to immature "worshipping Apple" quips that hold no water whatsoever. Step off the high horse. (Although I'm unsure if you realize how elitist you come across)

No, I'm acting as if I'm tired of the old mantra oft-repeated here "Apple is always right". And it's not really an act, I'm really getting tired of it. It's getting old. This isn't some kind of cult-of-mac site where we need to blindly agree with anything Apple does. This is a site about Rumors and news about Apple, can't we discuss things in an objective way for once ?

I read an article a while back about an American that worked in the auto industry in Japan. He commented that it was part of Japanese culture to copy.

Samsung is a Korean company.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 02:01 PM
You claim this doesn't mean anything to you, and yet you "seem to be the only that bothered checking the phone from every angle and bothered to find out about the UI behind it." Yea, and we all worship Apple so much that we can't sleep at night.

You seem to enjoy acting as if you are vastly more mature and intellectual than most of us around here, and yet you contradict yourself quite frequently and resort to immature "worshipping Apple" quips that hold no water whatsoever. Step off the high horse. (Although I'm unsure if you realize how elitist you come across)

Good thing he hasn't abused you yet.

Good thing he hasn't called you a "fanboy" or "Apple-Centric" or the one who believes "Apple invents everything" or in simple terms - "a moron".

Be grateful to him for God's sake? :rolleyes:

kiljoy616
May 30, 2011, 02:02 PM
Anyway, one data point and a bit anecdotal, but to me the phones look pretty much the same. If you took samsungs name off and stick apple on it, I would say it's the iPhone 3 GX or some closely related cousin to the 3GS.

Really please do tell me how to make it so different that it still feels good in a wait for it wait for it Human hand but does not look like an iPhone XX.

UI is Android so its time for Apple to get all steamy over Google, oh wait they can't. I still say Apple wants something Samsung has and this is a great way to get it at a better price.

kiljoy616
May 30, 2011, 02:05 PM
This isn't some kind of cult-of-mac site where we need to blindly agree with anything Apple does.

Its not, are you sure?

I could have sworn it was. ;)

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 02:08 PM
Then how can you make statements like the fact this wasn't thrown out so it has merit ? If you don't know US justice, don't comment US justice.

Anyway, I don't know why I keep arguing with you, the fact is, the courts will decide the outcome. No matter what happens, my life is not impacted by this at all, nor do I worship Apple enough to prevent me from sleeping at night.

Why would anyone outside the US read up so much on US Justice? I've read enough on this matter tho to see that the judges think there is some merit to the claims that they have granted access to the devices. If you were really right in the fact that the samsung phone is nothing like the iPhone why would they do this? and that is where your denial is.

again you claim i worship apple? when i've already made some points to counter this! lol. you're skirting close to breaching the rules of this site by trying to imply i'm a fanboi....

And on that note, i really am not gonna bother replying to you. i've got things to do and none of it includes reading too much into the US Justice system... lol

you are going to have to explain how knight cherry pick when he used multiple images other the standard one used by the people here screaming Apple is right.

THe image everyone uses to say Apple is right is shot only from the font and has the size of the device change in the picture to look like the same size as the iPhone.

Also as knight pointed out marketing material is not exactly relevant in the argument.

you've actually shot yourself in the foot, cos you said the standard image used by people here, exactly, the standard image used to promote this phone is the one we have shown cos it's marketing it to people as an iPhone lookalike, BY SAMSUNG! as i have said numerous times, all over android phones have gone out of their way to stand apart as VALID competition for the iPhone.

The marketing material just highlights how it's a cheap looking knockoff, therefore it is TOTALLY relevant.

IconicM
May 30, 2011, 02:13 PM
Really please do tell me how to make it so different that it still feels good in a wait for it wait for it Human hand but does not look like an iPhone XX.

UI is Android so its time for Apple to get all steamy over Google, oh wait they can't. I still say Apple wants something Samsung has and this is a great way to get it at a better price.

It's a bit like designing a watch. You can make them all look the same as in Casio and Seiko copying Rolex. Or you can make them look very different from Phillip Patek, to Panerari, etc. I don't know all the high end watches but they all try to design something different.

The point is you can do it if you want to. But you got to want to. Or you can be lazy or have low morals and ride on other coat tails.

Samsung just copied.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 02:13 PM
In the UK, the iPhone 4 is also offered free by some carriers, so his point isn't valid at all. :rolleyes:

Oh i missed this comment, the iPhone 4 is only offered free on the most expensive tariff and even then, it's just the 16Gb, not the 32Gb. this was not the case with the iPhone 3GS at the same time as when the samsung galaxy s (i900) was out, which was free on all the tariffs. So actually yes, it's a very valid point!

bushido
May 30, 2011, 02:14 PM
now its all of the sudden about how it was marketed? i thought they copied the freakin design, i have yet to see how the galaxy s is supposed to look like an iphone. u clearly havent seen a galaxy s out in the wild, i have an iPhone 4 and it looks nothing like a friends galaxy s which is a lot thinner, bigger screan, has a completely different back, the buttons r on the other side and all thats similiar is the freakin home button which isnt even the same shape and is used by many other manufacturers at the same spot. it might be "inspired" by the iPhone but seriously, which smartphone isnt. apple is just pissed that the galaxy is selling rather well in asia and europe

but whatever, its not like i'm being sued.

http://img3.magnus.de/Samsung-Galaxy-S2-f557x334-ffffff-C-fb441190-46297303.jpg

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 02:17 PM
Oh i missed this comment, the iPhone 4 is only offered free on the most expensive tariff and even then, it's just the 16Gb, not the 32Gb. this was not the case with the iPhone 3GS at the same time as when the samsung galaxy s (i900) was out, which was free on all the tariffs. So actually yes, it's a very valid point!

The Samsung Galaxy S shipped around the same time as the iPhone 4, so I don't quite get your comment. It was released in Korea on June 4th 2010, and in Europe later in June.

So the iPhone 3GS and Galaxy S never quite shared the stage. The Galaxy S line always competed with the iPhone 4 model. And yes, both models on release were the same 199$ price around here and in the US, I'd bet the UK carriers didn't go straight to free for either models either.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 02:19 PM
Really please do tell me how to make it so different that it still feels good in a wait for it wait for it Human hand but does not look like an iPhone XX.

UI is Android so its time for Apple to get all steamy over Google, oh wait they can't. I still say Apple wants something Samsung has and this is a great way to get it at a better price.

lol go look at the HTC phones, Motorola ones and you can see how they've designed phones that look significantly different to the iPhone as opposed to samsung's ripoff.

Now if Apple were suing HTC or Motorola for exactly the same reason, the people kicking up saying the Samsung phone looks like the iPhone enough to warrant a lawsuit would be in the right and i'd actually side with them, but nope, this is specifically about the one that looks like a cheap knockoff.

The Samsung Galaxy S shipped around the same time as the iPhone 4, so I don't quite get your comment. It was released in Korea on June 4th 2010, and in Europe later in June.

So the iPhone 3GS and Galaxy S never quite shared the stage. The Galaxy S line always competed with the iPhone 4 model. And yes, both models on release were the same 199$ price around here and in the US, I'd bet the UK carriers didn't go straight to free for either models either.

they shared the stage enough, only a couple of weeks, but enough. and people were still having to pay the full whack for the iPhone 3GS when carphone warehouse, at launch, were giving the Galaxy S free on any contract........

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 02:22 PM
Now if Apple were suing HTC

They are. What made you think they weren't ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/apple-sues-htc/article1487171/

AaronEdwards
May 30, 2011, 02:30 PM
People know Apple is innovative, and people know Apple is the only one who is being innovative.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2008/01/rams-ive.jpg (http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future)

Nuff said.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 02:33 PM
They are. What made you think they weren't ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/apple-sues-htc/article1487171/

but for exactly the same reason? that HTC phones look just like a cheap knockoff of the iPhone? No. lol. nice that you take my quote out of context........ you're just embarrassing yourself now.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 02:45 PM
apple is just pissed that the galaxy is selling rather well in asia and europe

well technically not actually selling in the UK, it's being given away for free......

bushido
May 30, 2011, 02:53 PM
well technically not actually selling in the UK, it's being given away for free......

sry, i was talking about the new "S 2" isnt it like 199 bucks or sth?

the iPhone 4 = 1 Euro
Samsung Galaxy S = 199 Euro

here in germany

skier777
May 30, 2011, 02:54 PM
Steve Jobs: Good artists copy great artists steal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Steve Jobs, stealing a quote. :)

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 03:03 PM
sry, i was talking about the new "S 2" isnt it like 199 bucks or sth?

the iPhone 4 = 1 Euro
Samsung Galaxy S = 199 Euro

here in germany

the Galaxy S2 isn't out here yet, the galaxy s is going for free on the 30pm contract , the iPhone 4 is still 229 on a 30 a month contract.

EDIT - The Galaxy S2 is going for free on contract when coming out in the UK http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-SII

bushido
May 30, 2011, 03:08 PM
the Galaxy S2 isn't out here yet, the galaxy s is going for free on the 30pm contract , the iPhone 4 is still 229 on a 30 a month contract.

EDIT - The Galaxy S2 is going for free on contract when coming out in the UK http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-SII

woah nice, a friend of mine just replaced his 3G with a Samsung Galaxy S 2 this morning bc he couldnt wait for the next iphone revision and he said it was like 199 euro. i guess it depends on the plan u chose

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 03:10 PM
you've actually shot yourself in the foot, cos you said the standard image used by people here, exactly, the standard image used to promote this phone is the one we have shown cos it's marketing it to people as an iPhone lookalike, BY SAMSUNG! as i have said numerous times, all over android phones have gone out of their way to stand apart as VALID competition for the iPhone.

The marketing material just highlights how it's a cheap looking knockoff, therefore it is TOTALLY relevant.


Umm standard picture USED BY PEOPLE HERE as such not exactly valid. Just people backing apple saying Apple is right.

Also that is ONE image of the phone. ONE IMAGE copy it does not make. As knight pointed out Marketing is marketing and they are known to bend the truth. Apple being one of the worse at down right near lieing more than once in the past.

In court it is safe to saw a judge will throw out Apple case in the end as when you look at more than JUST the app draw the entire case falls apart..

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 03:17 PM
woah nice, a friend of mine just replaced his 3G with a Samsung Galaxy S 2 this morning bc he couldnt wait for the next iphone revision and he said it was like 199 euro. i guess it depends on the plan u chose

well that's on all plans on orange in the UK, iPhone 4 still costs on all plans unless you fork out 75pm contract

Umm standard picture USED BY PEOPLE HERE as such not exactly valid. Just people backing apple saying Apple is right.

Also that is ONE image of the phone. ONE IMAGE copy it does not make. As knight pointed out Marketing is marketing and they are known to bend the truth. Apple being one of the worse at down right near lieing more than once in the past.

In court it is safe to saw a judge will throw out Apple case in the end as when you look at more than JUST the app draw the entire case falls apart..

it's also the standard image on samsungs own site for the phone.......

it's funny that HTC's and Motorola's marketing doesn't make their phones look like the iPhone. if samsung had actually put more effort to make the design look different enough to the iphone, both in the view from the front and the app drawer, like the other companies did, then this wouldn't be happening. it's just lazy designing from samsung. Marketing is an extremely valid issue here as it affect sales and profits, this affects IP as well as business

the fact the judge has granted access means that there is enough in there to support the claim. so even a judge thinks they look enough alike....

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 03:26 PM
it's also the standard image on samsungs own site for the phone.......

it's funny that HTC's and Motorola's marketing doesn't make their phones look like the iPhone. if samsung had actually put more effort to make the design look different enough to the iphone, both in the view from the front and the app drawer, like the other companies did, then this wouldn't be happening. it's just lazy designing from samsung

the fact the judge has granted access means that there is enough in there to support the claim. so even a judge thinks they look enough alike....

Marketing is Marketing. Not exactly coping. Also again it is only one of the many images Samsung provided. Of course the fanboys are going to jump on it.

Also the judge saying hand it over means that there is enough evidence to warrant some fact finding for Apple lawyers but chances are that all they got was that tells me even the judge thinks it is a weak case and in court it will never hold up.

Remember what it required to get a fact finding mission is a hell of a lot less than to prove the case in court. End result is Apple will loose and I hope in this one they have to pay samsung legal bills for being frevolus.
If you would OMG use the phone for a min it you would quickly see that it is nothing like the iPhone. but fanboys be fanboys and just hope on the one image do any minor amount of us and BOOM you are fine.

Also knight provided images of what you see of touchwiz phones in the US and they do not look much like the iPhone at all.
Marketing is marketing not valid. Use it. Marketing lies. I am sorry to see that you are grasping at straws to make your case

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 03:31 PM
Marketing is Marketing. Not exactly coping. Also again it is only one of the many images Samsung provided. Of course the fanboys are going to jump on it.

If you would OMG use the phone for a min it you would quickly see that it is nothing like the iPhone. but fanboys be fanboys and just hope on the one image do any minor amount of us and BOOM you are fine.

Also knight provided images of what you see of touchwiz phones in the US and they do not look much like the iPhone at all.
Marketing is marketing not valid. Use it. Marketing lies. I am sorry to see that you are grasping at straws to make your case

i used the phone, and yea, it's nothing like the iPhone, it was awful, slow, sluggish and crashed. but to the general public, who would not easily tell the difference as they're not even remotely tech minded (cos over here some networks did not have samsung written on the front), or just can't afford the 200 for an iPhone, but the samsung galaxy s is going for free, then it's a very valid issue. Samsung have knowingly marketed the Galaxy S looking like the iPhone. As i said, even on Samsungs own site, the Galaxy S is in the list with the app drawer shown as a main screen. joe public have no idea what an app drawer is and just assume that it's the home screen.

you're basing your opinion of your own biased, tech minded point of view and not lookin at the big picture. Which is why the judge granted access, as opposed to just saying no. If a judge didn't think this would hold up, why waste time, effort and money? lol, your logic there is baffling

Plus marketing lies just leads to legal cases. Just like this one....

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 03:45 PM
i used the phone, and yea, it's nothing like the iPhone, it was awful, slow, sluggish and crashed. but to the general public, who would not easily tell the difference as they're not even remotely tech minded (cos over here some networks did not have samsung written on the front), or just can't afford the 200 for an iPhone, but the samsung galaxy s is going for free, then it's a very valid issue. Samsung have knowingly marketed the Galaxy S looking like the iPhone. As i said, even on Samsungs own site, the Galaxy S is in the list with the app drawer shown as a main screen. joe public have no idea what an app drawer is and just assume that it's the home screen.

you're basing your opinion of your own biased, tech minded point of view and not lookin at the big picture. Which is why the judge granted access, as opposed to just saying no. If a judge didn't think this would hold up, why waste time, effort and money? lol, your logic there is baffling
Plus marketing lies just leads to legal cases. Just like this one....
Where are you getting free they were and are released at the same price so that fails. The phone people here claim it is coping is price less so that argument fails.
On top of that most stores have demo you can use and look at to see how far it is removed. The remember the judge will have the physical units in his hand. The apple has to prove its case with the units. The marketing not going to be valid in court.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 03:51 PM
Where are you getting free they were and are released at the same price so that fails. The phone people here claim it is coping is price less so that argument fails.
On top of that most stores have demo you can use and look at to see how far it is removed. The remember the judge will have the physical units in his hand. The apple has to prove its case with the units. The marketing not going to be valid in court.

Nope, in the UK, Carphone warehouse had the Galaxy S free on launch and it still is to this day on pretty much all networks here and the Galaxy S2 will be free on launch too, so how does that fail? lol.

lots of people order phones online these days, plus not everyone in the world has actually handled an iPhone, just seen photos, etc. As i said, i know a few people that saw the galaxy S and mistook it for an iPhone. You're being quite narrowminded, the general public aren't as technical minded as people on here.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 04:00 PM
Nope, in the UK, Carphone warehouse had the Galaxy S free on launch and it still is to this day on pretty much all networks here and the Galaxy S2 will be free on launch too, so how does that fail? lol.

lots of people order phones online these days, plus not everyone in the world has actually handled an iPhone, just seen photos, etc. As i said, i know a few people that saw the galaxy S and mistook it for an iPhone. You're being quite narrowminded, the general public aren't as technical minded as people on here.

Case is in the US also retail pricing matters not carrier and i believe over I. The ththeu multiple carries are selling thee iPhone for free so back to same or greater price. The fact that the case is not filled in the eu should tell you something apple knows its case is weak.

Also marketing material is not relevant in the case. Apple has to prove it with the PHYSICAL DEVICE. As you so nicely pointed out it is complete different when you use it. That is were apple entire case falls appart. They have to prove it with the physical devices of produces released or will be released in the US. That is were it falls apart.

The G2S that you will see in Europe it is safe to saw that we will not see that design in the US. Same OS but different hardware design.

shandyman
May 30, 2011, 04:02 PM
Case is in the US also retail pricing matters not carrier and i believe over I. The ththeu multiple carries are selling thee iPhone for free so back to same or greater price. The fact that the case is not filled in the eu should tell you something apple kncase is weak.

ok half that post doesn't make sense, do you want to go back and rewrite it?

the case isn't filed in the EU as the patent for the IP is in the US..... and as for the iPhone being free on multiple carriers, it's only on the high end tariffs, unlike the Galaxy S which is free and the S2, well in the UK at least is free, i'm not going around every carrier in every country in the EU to see, but it's a good enough example.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 04:03 PM
ok half that post doesn't make sense, do you want to go back and rewrite it?

the case isn't filed in the EU as the patent for the IP is in the US.....

sorry I typed that up on my phone. went back and edited it already.

farmboy
May 30, 2011, 04:25 PM
Image (http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future)

Nuff said.

Those are perhaps the worst comparisons of "design copying" I've ever seen.

tinman0
May 30, 2011, 04:25 PM
Dayam, nice to see all the Apple haters on today!

Have I logged onto SamsungRumors.com by accident???

I'm assuming that on that alternate universe forum they are all berating Samsung for copying Apple.

Blorzoga
May 30, 2011, 04:28 PM
Not really... Apple was the "first" to complain, if samsung was the "first" to complain, then the story would be different.

Why is "first" in quotes?

gorgeousninja
May 30, 2011, 04:45 PM
Gee, a 4x4 grid. Something a lot of cellphones do.

The bottom row is similar to what's done with WebOS.

Sigh.


Don't tell us..... 'It's generic'.:eek:

gorgeousninja
May 30, 2011, 04:53 PM
now its all of the sudden about how it was marketed? i thought they copied the freakin design, i have yet to see how the galaxy s is supposed to look like an iphone. u clearly havent seen a galaxy s out in the wild, i have an iPhone 4 and it looks nothing like a friends galaxy s which is a lot thinner, bigger screan, has a completely different back, the buttons r on the other side and all thats similiar is the freakin home button which isnt even the same shape and is used by many other manufacturers at the same spot. it might be "inspired" by the iPhone but seriously, which smartphone isnt. apple is just pissed that the galaxy is selling rather well in asia and europe

but whatever, its not like i'm being sued.

Image (http://img3.magnus.de/Samsung-Galaxy-S2-f557x334-ffffff-C-fb441190-46297303.jpg)

That's just ugly.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 05:29 PM
That's just ugly.

well, if its ugly then the iphone is ugly too considering samsung stole the design remember ;)

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 06:24 PM
but for exactly the same reason? that HTC phones look just like a cheap knockoff of the iPhone? No. lol. nice that you take my quote out of context........ you're just embarrassing yourself now.

Actually, yes, they are suing for UI patents in the iPhone, including some multi-touch patents. It seems that Sense UI is also a rip-off and a blatant copy according to Apple. :rolleyes:

And I'm embarassing myself... Why don't you go read up on this stuff BEFORE you try to post about it. It'll save both of us some time.

Bilbo63
May 30, 2011, 07:05 PM
First off, just because someone feels that Apple's claims easily have merit does not make them a Fanboy. I don't like everything that Apple makes or does. I happen to feel that Apple is a bit heavy-handed in some cases and a bit controlling in others. Where Apple is proven to violate another company's IP, they need to be held to the same standards as everyone else... I'm totally fine with that – that's the way it should be.

It seems to me more people who just love to bash Apple no matter what they do.

All you need is eyes to see that Samsung clearly took some liberties with SOME of their UI designs to mimic Apple. I don't think that anyone claimed that an entire device was copied front to back. No i'm not a judge, but I'm pretty confident that Apple's arguments have legitimate merit and they will prevail in court. Time will tell.

I have asked this of Apple haters before... Show me ONE phone that is like like the iPhone (or the multitude of multi-touch phones that have come along since) that pre-dates the iPhone.

The only one that anyone has ever brought forward was the LG Prada which does not in fact pre-date the iPhone. A photo was unofficially leaked, but it was not officially publicly shown until after the iPhone was announced and shown, even then all LG did was show a photo and talk about it.

Furthermore, the Prada does not look or operate like the iPhone.

Show me a phone that PRE-DATES the iPhone that has ALL of these features in one design... the same approximate size, thickness, with the front almost entirely being a hi-res colour touch screen display and hardly any physical buttons, no physical keyboard, Multi-Touch display using fingers NOT a stylus. Finger gestures such as swiping to switch between pages of applications, interface elements that appear on screen when required and disappear when they're not.

Show me one... Didn't think so.

How many mobile devices are out there now that have everyone of of those features all wrapped up in a package that is very similar to the original iPhone?

Now before anyone starts getting all pissy, I am in no way suggesting that Apple go after everyone and their brother, they shouldn't. I'm not saying that Apple invents everything that is cool. I'm simply saying that give credit where credit is due.

The very same companies that criticized Apple when they premiered the iPhone saying that it would fail due to few physical buttons, no physical keyboard, it was too big, too heavy, too expensive, it had an enclosed battery, etc, are all now making nearly the very same thing. They weren't interested in doing anything like it until they realized that Apple had hit a home run.

Again, give credit where credit is due. You Apple haters go on and on about Apple fanboys, yet your'e far worse.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 07:15 PM
First off, just because someone feels that Apple's claims easily have merit does not make them a Fanboy.

There's a difference between saying the claims have merit and outright saying Samsung stole Apple's design blatantly.

Notice how all this time, I've closed many of my own posts the same way :

This can go either way in court. There are various differences that make it not so blatant and bring it more into the realm of subtlety. In the end, it's in the judges hands.

It seems to me more people who just love to bash Apple no matter what they do.

So wait, people who say Apple has merit in their claims aren't fanboys, but people saying that the case isn't so one-sided are haters that bash Apple no matter what they do ? Double standards much Mr. High Ground ? Never in these threads on this subject have I bashed Apple. I have simply stated the same thing over and over :

This is not a case of blatant copying. This thing can go either way. The phones, while they might look in the same in some cherry picked shots, also bear quite a few notable differences that makes this a subject of opinion, not fact, until a judgment is issued.

The only one that anyone has ever brought forward was the LG Prada which does not in fact pre-date the iPhone. It was announced but not shown a few months before the iPhone was announced and shopwn. The Prada was never publicly shown until after the iPhone was announced and shown.

I'm not a Apple hater (care to name names of you you're calling hater here ?), but I'll grant your wish :

http://mobile.engadget.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/

Look at the date.

caspersoong
May 30, 2011, 07:36 PM
What is Samsung doing? Why would they say they are unconcerned? Will this help the lawsuit? Or make Apple madder?

neko girl
May 30, 2011, 07:39 PM
http://mobile.engadget.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/

Look at the date.
Yes, you are blind to think that looks anything like an iPhone 4. More importantly, an iPhone 4 wasn't designed specifically to resemble an LG Prada. Apple didn't depend on LG Prada-like looks to sell the iPhone 4. The idea of resemblance and trade dress is Apple's major point of contention here.

Regarding the Apple-hater comment, KnightWRX - your posts do seem to follow a predictable trend.. I'll avoid any specific labels to avoid a continued, tired debate along this vector.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 07:40 PM
Yes, you are blind to think that looks anything like an iPhone 4. More importantly, an iPhone 4 wasn't designed specifically to resemble an LG Prada. Apple didn't depend on LG Prada-like looks to sell the iPhone 4. The idea of resemblance and trade dress is Apple's major point of contention here.

Now where did I say that looked like an iPhone 4 ? :rolleyes:

He said the Prada didn't appear before the iPhone, I simply provided the evidence of the contrary he wanted. LG had no cues from Apple when they designed their phone. All touch-screen phones are not something Apple came up with, they just are something the industry naturally moved to.

Some might look like the iPhone, some might look like something else. Does the GS i9000/Vibrant look like a 3GS ? It has a few similarities (shape, "a bevel" even though the color is off, the speaker at the top having the same rough shape if not size), but it also has quite a few differences. And those similarities are found in older Samsung models, so are they really iPhone rip-offs or just a continuation of designs Samsung already did ?

Questions for the court right there, nothing anyone here can answer factually. Anyone that tries to pass off their commentary on this whole thing as anything but opinion is dead wrong.

DeathChill
May 30, 2011, 07:44 PM
I want to tell you one thing that Samsung is 100% guilty of: stealing my innocence.

neko girl
May 30, 2011, 07:44 PM
@KnightWRX, Sammy's history of KIRFing Nokia and Blackberry phones might point to a simple answer to the Apple-Samsung dispute.

Bilbo63
May 30, 2011, 07:52 PM
KnightWRX...

I don't recall singling you out even once. No need to get ugly. It's not like I'm getting all pissed off and miserable about this. If that's the way that I am coming across, it's not intended that way. It's nothing for me to all worked up about, I don't own any Apple stock. (Although I wish that I did).

I have been repeatedly called a fanboy simply because I feel Apple has merit. That's all that I'm saying.

And as far as feeling that Samsung blatantly copied Apple in some of their phones... Yup that's my opinion, that's how I feel.

I feel that Apple gets next to no credit by some of you, (not anyone in particular, I pay little attention to screen names) for helping shape a new generation of mobile devices that we are all enjoying.

Cheers

Glideslope
May 30, 2011, 07:54 PM
The sooner Apple realise they cant stop the power of Android the better. If they spent less time trying to sue people they might have been able to make iOS have decent notifications and widgets. :rolleyes:

LOL. You do realize Bruce and Apple Legal exist on their own Continent. Apple Legal in no way inhibits R&D cash flow. :apple:

CQd44
May 30, 2011, 07:57 PM
Don't tell us..... 'It's generic'.:eek:

Maybe not generic, but a LOT of old phones have their icons arranged in a grid.

Other than the app drawer, the phones don't resemble eachother. They don't operate in the exact same fashion.

le sigh.

I don't even like TouchWiz or Samsung phones. This lawsuit is just silly to me.

Avalontor
May 30, 2011, 08:13 PM
They get credit for coming up with a different UI, but the UI is still multi-touch and this is a UI that Apple invented, and has patented.

Fortunately for Microsoft, they already signed a cross licensing agreement with Apple and have been paying apple significant royalties since the 1990s.... so Apple won't need to sue them.

Multi-touch is Apple's invention.

You should check out who invented Multi-touch, you would be surprised. A couple of Canadians if I remember.

You should also check out a company called Fingerworks, Apple bought them in 2005 for their Multi-touch patents.
patented but not inventive

maclaptop
May 30, 2011, 08:14 PM
Reading this thread simply reveals how serious some peoples ego is attached to the company they worship.

This is like a good movie, sit back, relax and be entertained :)

Samsung has nothing to be concerned about. Apple sues many companies, it's their idea of how to operate. Attack in the press, play the victim, and keep their legal team engaged. It's just posturing and Apple thrives on it. If that wasn't true they would not be initiating all these law suits.

It'll all fade away in time. Money will change hands and Apple will cock the gun and set it's sites on the next company they envy.

AppleScruff1
May 30, 2011, 08:22 PM
And we must remember, all of this is very bad for the consumer.

Even Apple loyalists should realise the very VERY last thing that we as consumers should want to happen is for people like Apple to be the only ones able to produce X, Y or Z

All that will happen then is they will sit on it and not feel so under pressure.

With other companies producing products that threaten their profits, it makes any company try as hard as they can year after year to offer the very best they can otherwise they will get overtaken.

I'm sure every Apple fan wants Apple to do this. Be pushed to do the very best it can.

If Apple could sit on a pile of lawsuits so that no-one else could make anything else even remotely like an iPhone in any way (like a Samsung, an HTC etc etc) and you think in that world Apple would try as hard, then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.

It's strong competition that drives the industry forward, and no matter what brand you prefer to own, it's good for every single consumer for specs and prices.

The real fanboys dream of a world ruled by Steve and where Apple is the only company in existence. They don't want competition.

shigzeo
May 30, 2011, 08:45 PM
Both companies play dirty, but Samsung are dirty. I lived right by one of their research centres in Seoul. Here's a picture of how they recycle. (In case you can't tell, this comment is tongue-in-cheek. This is a bus stop.)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5672262665_bbca1519d0.jpg

The trash? That's how S. Korea does business in everything. I worked with a number of companies (although the software companies were different) and that is how every single one worked: they looked at contracts, and how to break them.

Samsung are the largest conglomerate in the world. Their mobile division is a pittance in comparison to everything - so is their electronics division. They will have no effect from this lawsuit and probably can freaking rend Apple a new one - in that Samsung work on a completely different legal plane than Apple.

As for design, just look at Samsung cars. They are direct copies of Nissan's. Ten years ago, they were direct Mercedes Benz cars.

And no one can stop them. Let's put it this way: Samsung account for 20% of S. Korea's export economy and since the 1950's have been given special dispensation from the government in S. Korea. They put politicians in place. S.K. annual paycheques are on average much less than USD 20 000$ for employees who have worked more than 5 years at full-time jobs.

Out of uni, they get about 6-7000$ USD. They pay heavily at the top and nothing at the bottom, and NO, it is NOT cheaper to live in S.K. compared to the states. It is MORE expensive.

How do they keep this up? Corporations like Samsung who have been allowed to grow so large that they own everything in the country. Hell, they are even allowed to sell illegal DVD/CD's openly at their supermarkets. The only people who get in trouble with the police are people who protest. That is the reason the cops even exist.

There is no way that Samsung will ever fall when the government of the country is owned by Samsung and Hyundai (who's former CEO now runs the country as President).

A lookalike lawsuit is something Samsung have undoubtedly had to deal with before and will deal with again. They are used to it and will get through it unscathed.

Apple, however, will tarnish their image in this lawsuit. Samsung, well, they have no image to ruin. They are the good foreign company to everyone in America and Europe. They are a cute manufacturer of TV's and phones.

There is no good guy in this suit. Apple are playing this IP stuff nastily and set a dangerous precedence for every company out there, big or small. But root for Samsung (even in this stupid lawsuit) and you're rooting for a corporate dictatorship, full stop.

SandynJosh
May 30, 2011, 09:05 PM
Agreed. And to be quite honest, the Apple design isn't that brilliant either. It's just a grid of icons.

It isn't whether Apple's design is best or not, Apple has registered their product dress and Samsung, who could have used a different layout or icon colors and icon designs, just photocopied the apple design look.

The Herman Miller Aeron chair has a patented design look. No one can make a chair that is too similar. There is a line where a design by company B is too much like company A. The Apple Samsung suit is about whether that line was crossed...Apple thinks "yes" and Samsung thinks "no".

Having read Apple's suit, I think Apple has a strong case, but in the whole scheme of things, my opinion, as all other opinions on this thread, doesn't mean squat.

ShiningShiny
May 30, 2011, 09:08 PM
Both companies play dirty, but Samsung are dirty. I lived right by one of their research centres in Seoul. Here's a picture of how they recycle. (In case you can't tell, this comment is tongue-in-cheek. This is a bus stop.)

Image (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5672262665_bbca1519d0.jpg)

The trash? That's how S. Korea does business in everything. I worked with a number of companies (although the software companies were different) and that is how every single one worked: they looked at contracts, and how to break them.

Samsung are the largest conglomerate in the world. Their mobile division is a pittance in comparison to everything - so is their electronics division. They will have no effect from this lawsuit and probably can freaking rend Apple a new one - in that Samsung work on a completely different legal plane than Apple.

As for design, just look at Samsung cars. They are direct copies of Nissan's. Ten years ago, they were direct Mercedes Benz cars.

And no one can stop them. Let's put it this way: Samsung account for 20% of S. Korea's export economy and since the 1950's have been given special dispensation from the government in S. Korea. They put politicians in place. S.K. annual paycheques are on average much less than USD 20 000$ for employees who have worked more than 5 years at full-time jobs.

Out of uni, they get about 6-7000$ USD. They pay heavily at the top and nothing at the bottom, and NO, it is NOT cheaper to live in S.K. compared to the states. It is MORE expensive.

How do they keep this up? Corporations like Samsung who have been allowed to grow so large that they own everything in the country. Hell, they are even allowed to sell illegal DVD/CD's openly at their supermarkets. The only people who get in trouble with the police are people who protest. That is the reason the cops even exist.

There is no way that Samsung will ever fall when the government of the country is owned by Samsung and Hyundai (who's former CEO now runs the country as President).

A lookalike lawsuit is something Samsung have undoubtedly had to deal with before and will deal with again. They are used to it and will get through it unscathed.

Apple, however, will tarnish their image in this lawsuit. Samsung, well, they have no image to ruin. They are the good foreign company to everyone in America and Europe. They are a cute manufacturer of TV's and phones.

There is no good guy in this suit. Apple are playing this IP stuff nastily and set a dangerous precedence for every company out there, big or small. But root for Samsung (even in this stupid lawsuit) and you're rooting for a corporate dictatorship, full stop.

Littering, not recycling. South Korea is one of the best recycling countries in the world.

http://ecolocalizer.com/2008/02/19/korea-excells-at-recycling-koreans-unaware/
(or just Google "south Korea recycle")

I don't disagree with your post as far as the other stuff, just wanted to stop unnecessary misinformation about the country itself >.<

Anyways, now the real question is how will this influence the whole iPhone 4S vs. Galaxy SII battle? I was kind of in the middle up till now, but I am slightly starting to tip towards the iPhone 4S... Maybe that's exactly what this lawsuit is supposed to make me do though lol

lilo777
May 30, 2011, 09:15 PM
Both companies play dirty, but Samsung are dirty. I lived right by one of their research centres in Seoul. Here's a picture of how they recycle. (In case you can't tell, this comment is tongue-in-cheek. This is a bus stop.)

Image (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5672262665_bbca1519d0.jpg)

The trash? That's how S. Korea does business in everything. I worked with a number of companies (although the software companies were different) and that is how every single one worked: they looked at contracts, and how to break them.

Samsung are the largest conglomerate in the world. Their mobile division is a pittance in comparison to everything - so is their electronics division. They will have no effect from this lawsuit and probably can freaking rend Apple a new one - in that Samsung work on a completely different legal plane than Apple.

As for design, just look at Samsung cars. They are direct copies of Nissan's. Ten years ago, they were direct Mercedes Benz cars.

And no one can stop them. Let's put it this way: Samsung account for 20% of S. Korea's export economy and since the 1950's have been given special dispensation from the government in S. Korea. They put politicians in place. S.K. annual paycheques are on average much less than USD 20 000$ for employees who have worked more than 5 years at full-time jobs.

Out of uni, they get about 6-7000$ USD. They pay heavily at the top and nothing at the bottom, and NO, it is NOT cheaper to live in S.K. compared to the states. It is MORE expensive.

How do they keep this up? Corporations like Samsung who have been allowed to grow so large that they own everything in the country. Hell, they are even allowed to sell illegal DVD/CD's openly at their supermarkets. The only people who get in trouble with the police are people who protest. That is the reason the cops even exist.

There is no way that Samsung will ever fall when the government of the country is owned by Samsung and Hyundai (who's former CEO now runs the country as President).

A lookalike lawsuit is something Samsung have undoubtedly had to deal with before and will deal with again. They are used to it and will get through it unscathed.

Apple, however, will tarnish their image in this lawsuit. Samsung, well, they have no image to ruin. They are the good foreign company to everyone in America and Europe. They are a cute manufacturer of TV's and phones.

There is no good guy in this suit. Apple are playing this IP stuff nastily and set a dangerous precedence for every company out there, big or small. But root for Samsung (even in this stupid lawsuit) and you're rooting for a corporate dictatorship, full stop.

And this is how misinformation may spread. Did you know that Samsung cars were made by "Renault Samsung Motors"? Renault owns 70% of the company. Renault also holds a 43.4% stake in Nissan. So, this is one big auto concern and Samsung copies Nissan cars officially and legally. Nobody is going to sue Samsung for this (maybe Apple?)

Bilbo63
May 30, 2011, 09:16 PM
The LG KE850 is the Prada. An unofficial leaked photo of the KE850 showed up on tech rumour sites three weeks before Apple officially took the wraps off of the final version of the iPhone (January 9, 2007). The iPhone shipped in the US on June 9th as it required FCC approval and Apple being secretive (paranoid) didn't want to send the FCC the device until it had been officially announced publicly.

An official LG press release showing nothing more than an image of the KE850 appeared on January 18, 2007. So far, I have been unable to locate any firm actual ship dates on the device, but a second, revised version shipped in October. I'm still trying to find the article where I originally read it, but evidently the UI changed on the second version to more closely resemble the UI of the iPhone. I'm still looking.

It is pretty obvious that both companies were heading in similar directions at the same time. Clearly LG must have had a spy in Apple's labs! (Kidding!) Comparing both devices in photos and video footage, today's touch screen phones easily resemble the iPhone over the KE850 in both appearance, UI and functionality, but the KE850 looked pretty decent.

So... I still have not seen proof of anything like the iPhone that clearly pre-dates it. Again, I'm not claiming that Apple invents everything cool and I'm not saying Apple does no wrong. I further agree that it is entirely possible for competing companies to be working on similar projects at the same time. That said I still maintain that todays smart phones very closely resemble Apple's iPhone over anything else.

SandynJosh
May 30, 2011, 09:28 PM
Again, if you go outside the media hype on this story, you can see this isn't going to be an easy win for Apple. And the Samsung Galaxy S i9000 is only 1 model of Samsung Galaxy S line-up, the other phones are quite different and if you mistake them for iPhones, I have bad news for you : bla bla bla...

So please guys, again, go beyond the Apple cherry picked evidence pictures go and try to look at this objectively. This isn't the blatant copying it's made out to be.

If you read Apple's suit, especially the points relating to trade dress, and then go back and look at your photos, you will begin to see what points relating to copying Apple's trade dress, Apple is suing over. Then you will realize how ignorant you are relating to Apple's suit. You have no idea what Apple is claiming is being infringed upon.

AidenShaw
May 30, 2011, 09:30 PM
That said I still maintain that todays smart phones very closely resemble Apple's iPhone over anything else.

And a BMW resembles a Yugo or a Trabant.

Should Trabant sue BMW for copying their designs?

Apple's legal team needs to spend a weekend offsite with some very good marijuana (and probably some window pane), just to readjust their priorities.

They're touch-screen phones - it's obvious that UI design will converge on something that works.

Where would we be if the "steering wheel" had been patented by Ford, so that GM cars had to use tillers, Chrysler used foot pedals, Ramblers used a joystick and most foreign cars were banned for patent infringement?

rhuber
May 30, 2011, 09:34 PM
I still have trouble understanding what the references are to all the iPhone similarities. I mean I get that they are using app icons, which of course they did get from iphone, but all androids have been using those since day one. That picture showing the samsung and the iphone side by side is showing iPhone's main interface, but that's not the samsung's main interface... it's just the app drawer where all the app icons are displayed. The interface looks more like the HTC and other andriod's, which bear little or no resemblance to iphone.

Is it because when you open the android app drawer, it displays in a grid like iphone? The only thing I could find that looks different from any other android is the music player icon, which I admit is a pretty close copy of apple's itunes logo.

Bilbo63
May 30, 2011, 09:41 PM
And a BMW resembles a Yugo or a Trabant.

Should Trabant sue BMW for copying their designs?

Apple's legal team needs to spend a weekend offsite with some very good marijuana (and probably some window pane), just to readjust their priorities.

They're touch-screen phones - it's obvious that UI design will converge on something that works.

Where would we be if the "steering wheel" had been patented by Ford, so that GM cars had to use tillers, Chrysler used foot pedals, Ramblers used a joystick and most foreign cars were banned for patent infringement?

I'm not even touching cars, I don't really see that as a good comparison, but that's just me. Besides many of them look alike to me. I don't even know what a Trabant is, but I think I'll go look it up for fun.

Just keep criticizing Apple if that's your hobby. They'll continue to do good work, lead the industry, get copied by others while getting no respect at all from some of you. Some things never change.

Apple wasn't the first to do a tablet, they were just the first to do one right. Magically everyone and their dog is attempting to make a tablet now, and oddly enough, they all (edit – nearly all)resemble Apple's tablet.

I'm not saying that everyone has to love everything Apple (because I don't), but they are one of the few companies that really innovate.

Michael Scrip
May 30, 2011, 10:21 PM
The LG KE850 is the Prada. An unofficial leaked photo of the KE850 showed up on tech rumour sites three weeks before Apple officially took the wraps off of the final version of the iPhone (January 9, 2007). The iPhone shipped in the US on June 9th as it required FCC approval and Apple being secretive (paranoid) didn't want to send the FCC the device until it had been officially announced publicly.

I don't really remember the LG Prada. The pictures I've found show a primitive looking phone from 2007. The only comparison to the iPhone is that it's a touchscreen phone that has icons.

The issue between Apple and Samsung is not the grid of icons that all touchscreen phones have... it's about the icons themselves and other elements that look strikingly similar to iOS. Plus, packaging and other trade dress infringement that might confuse the consumer.

Apple believes that Samsung designed TouchWiz to look and feel as much like iOS as possible, and then marketed it as such.

There are plenty of other touchscreen phones that manage to look different... so the argument that 2 companies can end up in the same place doesn't really work.

The iPhone has basically looked the same since its launch in 2007... and when did TouchWiz come out?

Samsung clearly didn't try hard enough...

SandynJosh
May 30, 2011, 10:57 PM
I still have trouble understanding what the references are to all the iPhone similarities. I mean I get that they are using app icons, which of course they did get from iphone, but all androids have been using those since day one. That picture showing the samsung and the iphone side by side is showing iPhone's main interface, but that's not the samsung's main interface... it's just the app drawer where all the app icons are displayed. The interface looks more like the HTC and other andriod's, which bear little or no resemblance to iphone.

Is it because when you open the android app drawer, it displays in a grid like iphone? The only thing I could find that looks different from any other android is the music player icon, which I admit is a pretty close copy of apple's itunes logo.

...and you are having trouble BECAUSE you haven't read Apple's suit which is available on this board. You are confused because you don't know what the suit is about other then what you've read second-hand from a lot of posters who haven't a clue as well. Don;t add to the confusion.

shigzeo
May 30, 2011, 11:26 PM
If you read Apple's suit, especially the points relating to trade dress, and then go back and look at your photos, you will begin to see what points relating to copying Apple's trade dress, Apple is suing over. Then you will realize how ignorant you are relating to Apple's suit. You have no idea what Apple is claiming is being infringed upon.

Yes, Renault owns the current iteration of Samsung, or most of it. In the 1990's that wasn't the game.

Recycling: recycling is one thing but if no one carries shopping bags, everyone throws everything out, and nothing is re-used, you have a lop-sided recycling system.

That is S. Korea. They report that they are the best at everything and if you look a little further, you find that the numbers don't add up. Their recycling system is wonk, for sure as nothing is reused at all. Germany and Sweden are way waaaay better; things go and get cleaned, not remade from factory.

As for Samsung quality, it is crap. I don't know about TV's and other cute stuff sold in America, but our washers/range/gas - everything broke all the time!

rhuber
May 30, 2011, 11:40 PM
...and you are having trouble BECAUSE you haven't read Apple's suit which is available on this board. You are confused because you don't know what the suit is about other then what you've read second-hand from a lot of posters who haven't a clue as well. Don;t add to the confusion.

Crap man... I was asking a question. What's wrong with you?

Joker2206
May 31, 2011, 01:20 AM
There was an article in certain magazine in my country which stated:"Companies denying Apple" and it had a list of companies (phone manufacturers) who actually did not want to be the one that people will say: They have copied a design (or functionality) from Apple.
This companies are also on the top of the list of the worst companies considering earnings and their scale is going down.

Now, every company took something that Apple already had in iphone who wanted to stay in the game. My second HTC was HD2 and it was first capacitive screen with multitouch from HTC.
I wonder how much time would they need unless people whined about those things in HTC (and other companies) phones.
That is not patented by Apple, but still they figured it out that it could be great thing to have in phone much much earlier then any other phone.

Considering lawsuit and patents, Porsche had to reject name Porsche 901 because Peugeot has "patented" all cars that have 0 in the middle of car model name...206, 207, 407, etc.... Silly, isn't it...but it's protected by law.

AppleFanatic10
May 31, 2011, 01:34 AM
Is it me or does the Samsung Galaxy S look like a really cheap knock-off of the iPhone?

skinned66
May 31, 2011, 02:16 AM
If having a "grid of icons" in a phone UI is Apple's exclusive IP and is patented, then someone in the patent office needs to be taken outside and shot. Then resuscitated, healed, then shot again. Followed by a strongly worded letter.

I dare say this should have happened a long, long time ago. Way before this dispute.

AaronEdwards
May 31, 2011, 03:21 AM
Those are perhaps the worst comparisons of "design copying" I've ever seen.

It shows consistent stealing from the same designer (Dieter Rams).
And the stealing is being done by Jonathan Ive, the Apple design guru...

Fukui
May 31, 2011, 03:33 AM
Apple's legal team needs to spend a weekend offsite with some very good marijuana (and probably some window pane), just to readjust their priorities.

LOL. Yes.

KnightWRX
May 31, 2011, 04:16 AM
If you read Apple's suit, especially the points relating to trade dress, and then go back and look at your photos, you will begin to see what points relating to copying Apple's trade dress, Apple is suing over. Then you will realize how ignorant you are relating to Apple's suit. You have no idea what Apple is claiming is being infringed upon.

Hum, they are suing over the Grid of icons, over the bezel, over the rounded corners on the phone and many other claims that simply don't make sense. These are part of the design patent claims of the suit and some trade dress.

The icons themselves are the trademark claims. Apple has trademarked their icons. There's very notable differences (and similarities) between the Samsung icons and the actual trademarks, which kdarling made a pleasure of pointing out in an other thread on the topic. I wouldn't want to steal his thunder by rehashing the points.

This lawsuit is quite large. Have you read it yourself ? I've addressed a few points of it in my own posts. Again, I believe this can go either way. Also, it's worth noting that Apple doesn't have to win all claims nor does Samsung have to lose against them all. Each claim will have its own verdict and so it stands on its own merit.

There is nothing wrong with discussing a few of the claims individually instead of having to discuss the whole suit as one unique entity.

the8thark
May 31, 2011, 04:30 AM
There is no good guy in this suit. Apple are playing this IP stuff nastily and set a dangerous precedence for every company out there, big or small. But root for Samsung (even in this stupid lawsuit) and you're rooting for a corporate dictatorship, full stop.
I have to agree. But you can't rid the world of a dictator by playing nice. You need to take it to them. Get them scared. Put yourself on the line. Do everything in your power then then some to rid the world of this evil menace.

People are thing this in the middle east and Africa now to rid themselves of their political dictators. And now the world needs to make a stand against this economic dictator.

This always reminds me of Al Capone. He and his mob killed many people. Bootlegged lots of grog. And pretty much untouchable on these crimes. But some little oversight like tax fraud (could not really declare his income was as a mob leader) did him in.

My point is Apple will never get Samaung on their main crimes. They are too big and the world is much to apathetic towards them. But find something else not as important to pin on them and if you're lucky the courts might punish them more cause of their other untouchable crimes.

Just like Al Capone. Did he deserve the sentence he got for tax fraud? On it's own no. But the courts gave him the harshest sentence they could cause they knew it's stop all his other crimes.

In short I don't care what brings Samsung down. As long as it stops them from practicing their other crimes.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 31, 2011, 04:35 AM
Is it me or does the Samsung Galaxy S look like a really cheap knock-off of the iPhone?

It no where looks cheap. It's just that their touchWiz looks really ugly and should be replaced with something good.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 31, 2011, 04:41 AM
The LG KE850 is the Prada. An unofficial leaked photo of the KE850 showed up on tech rumour sites three weeks before Apple officially took the wraps off of the final version of the iPhone (January 9, 2007). The iPhone shipped in the US on June 9th as it required FCC approval and Apple being secretive (paranoid) didn't want to send the FCC the device until it had been officially announced publicly.

An official LG press release showing nothing more than an image of the KE850 appeared on January 18, 2007. So far, I have been unable to locate any firm actual ship dates on the device, but a second, revised version shipped in October. I'm still trying to find the article where I originally read it, but evidently the UI changed on the second version to more closely resemble the UI of the iPhone. I'm still looking.

It is pretty obvious that both companies were heading in similar directions at the same time. Clearly LG must have had a spy in Apple's labs! (Kidding!) Comparing both devices in photos and video footage, today's touch screen phones easily resemble the iPhone over the KE850 in both appearance, UI and functionality, but the KE850 looked pretty decent.

So... I still have not seen proof of anything like the iPhone that clearly pre-dates it. Again, I'm not claiming that Apple invents everything cool and I'm not saying Apple does no wrong. I further agree that it is entirely possible for competing companies to be working on similar projects at the same time. That said I still maintain that todays smart phones very closely resemble Apple's iPhone over anything else.

That's exactly what I feel too.

There is innovation everywhere. It's very obvious that Apple is not the only one innovating; looking at all the other awesome things around.

The point being, some people who just act smart, portray as if they don't really care but in the end, make things personal and end up spewing the unexpected.

They also do imply, that if we are supporting Apple through one of our opinions, we are not being 'objective'. Is bashing Apple always objective cause that makes one mature? No, I guess.

Bilbo63
May 31, 2011, 06:38 AM
I don't really remember the LG Prada. The pictures I've found show a primitive looking phones from 2007. The only comparison to the iPhone is that it's a touchscreen phone that has icons.

The issue between Apple and Samsung is not the grid of icons that all touchscreen phones have... it's about the icons themselves and other elements that look strikingly similar to iOS. Plus, packaging and other trade dress infringement that might confuse the consumer.

Apple believes that Samsung designed TouchWiz to look and feel as much like iOS as possible, and then marketed it as such.

There are plenty of other touchscreen phones that manage to look different... so the argument that 2 companies can end up in the same place doesn't really work.

The iPhone has basically looked the same since its launch in 2007... and when did TouchWiz come out?

Samsung clearly didn't try hard enough...

Thats pretty much how I feel. I further think that Samsung didn't have to make certain elements of their UI and Touch-Wiz feature so much like the iPhone. Apple feels that it was done intentionally to create confusion in the marketplace.

I was in a mobile phone store and a customer came in and asked for an iPhone. They didn't carry the iPhone so he said nothing and pulled out a demo Samsung Android device, hoping that the woman wouldn't notice. When she asked why there was no Apple logo on any of the the boxes, he simply said "we don't actually sell the iPhone", but this is the same thing. It has the same home screen as the iPhone, the same touch interface as the iPhone etc. She did buy it as I recall, because she didn't want to switch carriers.

If you look at the majority of best selling cell phones "pre-iPhone", they all looked quite different. Some were candy bar designs, some were clam shell, some were tiny, some were large, they were many different shapes. It's like everyone was searching for the perfect mix.

If you look at most of the best selling phones today, many, but not all, very closely resemble Apple's first iPhone, in size, shape, appearance and UI.

cwkoller5
May 31, 2011, 11:28 AM
Yeah, it is copied. But there are shades of gray and every Apple competitor is going to do what they can to blur the line. Microsoft has taken a different tack by differentiating the UI, so we'll see how that works. It's business, and the lawyers are thriving...

Four years ago, everything looked like a Crackberry. Today everything looks like a dark sheet of glass. Prada may have shipped first, but the UI was primitive compared to the iPhone which no doubt had been in development for years.

I'm surprised Apple wasn't more aggressive out of the gate with its patents, like it was with the original iMac. But now it seems like patent wars are simply another front on which tech companies battle and wield influence over competitors ... and suppliers.

Bilbo63
May 31, 2011, 11:56 AM
Yeah, it is copied. But there are shades of gray and every Apple competitor is going to do what they can to blur the line. Microsoft has taken a different tack by differentiating the UI, so we'll see how that works. It's business, and the lawyers are thriving...

Four years ago, everything looked like a Crackberry. Today everything looks like a dark sheet of glass. Prada may have shipped first, but the UI was primitive compared to the iPhone which no doubt had been in development for years.

I'm surprised Apple wasn't more aggressive out of the gate with its patents, like it was with the original iMac. But now it seems like patent wars are simply another front on which tech companies battle and wield influence over competitors ... and suppliers.

True. I'm not sure that the Prada shipped first, but the iPhone was officially announced first and they didn't simply show a picture either. Apple demoed a finished device ready to ship pending the FCC approval. It wasn't perfect and it lacked some features but it did pave the way more or less for any number of iPhone wannabes that would soon follow.

That's splitting hairs anyway. I wouldn't say that LG copied Apple, but it does appear that they were heading in similar directions The Prada isn't all that similar anyway in form factor or operation.

I too am surprised that Apple hasn't been more aggressive. When Steve announced the phone he said that they patented the heck out of it. Maybe the legal wrangling is just getting started, maybe it won't happen at all. You just never know when it comes to this stuff.

What I fail to understand is how Eric Schmidt was able to have a seat on Apple's board, be privy to the secretive work that Apple was developing in their labs, then trot back to the Google labs and have his crew work on practically a carbon copy. How does this even happen? Steve must have had a ***** hemorrhage.

Obi-Wan Kubrick
May 31, 2011, 01:06 PM
Samsung should be embarrassed, along with the others that blatantly copy this UI.

shandyman
May 31, 2011, 02:10 PM
Actually, yes, they are suing for UI patents in the iPhone, including some multi-touch patents. It seems that Sense UI is also a rip-off and a blatant copy according to Apple. :rolleyes:

And I'm embarassing myself... Why don't you go read up on this stuff BEFORE you try to post about it. It'll save both of us some time.

then it's not exactly the same as the samsung case is it? lol

dba7dba
May 31, 2011, 02:11 PM
True. I'm not sure that the Prada shipped first, but the iPhone was officially announced first and they didn't simply show a picture either. Apple demoed a finished device ready to ship pending the FCC approval. It wasn't perfect and it lacked some features but it did pave the way more or less for any number of iPhone wannabes that would soon follow.

That's splitting hairs anyway. I wouldn't say that LG copied Apple, but it does appear that they were heading in similar directions The Prada isn't all that similar anyway in form factor or operation.

I too am surprised that Apple hasn't been more aggressive. When Steve announced the phone he said that they patented the heck out of it. Maybe the legal wrangling is just getting started, maybe it won't happen at all. You just never know when it comes to this stuff.

What I fail to understand is how Eric Schmidt was able to have a seat on Apple's board, be privy to the secretive work that Apple was developing in their labs, then trot back to the Google labs and have his crew work on practically a carbon copy. How does this even happen? Steve must have had a ***** hemorrhage.


Wrong info re release date of LG. LG Prada was shown at design show and won award about 5 months before iPhone was first revealed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/LG_prada_phone_private_picture.jpg
---Excerpt
LG Electronics has claimed the iPhone's design was copied from the LG Prada. Woo-Young Kwak, head of LG Mobile Handset R&D Center, said at a press conference, “We consider that Apple copied the Prada phone after the design was unveiled when it was presented in the iF Design Award and won the prize in September 2006.”[8][9]
LG later claimed that Apple stole both the ideas and concept of the Prada phone. A lawsuit by LG had been rumored prior to this announcement; [8] however, LG has remained silent on whether or not they will file a lawsuit.



Not necessarily saying iphone is direct copy of LG Prada but...

If Apple prevails against Samsung, than me think LG will sue Apple. No reason not to as Apple essentially laid the legal precedence for LG to use.

kdarling
May 31, 2011, 02:53 PM
True. I'm not sure that the Prada shipped first, but the iPhone was officially announced first and they didn't simply show a picture either. Apple demoed a finished device ready to ship pending the FCC approval.

Minor quibble: Apple demoed the iPhone in January 2007. It probably wasn't completely ready, as the FCC submittal wasn't until March, and field tests began in May. Sales started late June.

I too am surprised that Apple hasn't been more aggressive. When Steve announced the phone he said that they patented the heck out of it.

Jobs says a lot of things. There's actually fairly few currently approved directly iPhone-related patents, and most can be gotten around easily. For instance, their patent on a straight line slide-to-unlock that shows the path to take and a path marker that follows your finger.

What I fail to understand is how Eric Schmidt was able to have a seat on Apple's board, be privy to the secretive work ...

I don't think the Apple board members knew any details. Heck, even AT&T's board took a single executive's word that it would be worth carrying it.

Bilbo63
May 31, 2011, 03:05 PM
Wrong info re release date of LG. LG Prada was shown at design show and won award about 5 months before iPhone was first revealed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/LG_prada_phone_private_picture.jpg)
---Excerpt
LG Electronics has claimed the iPhone's design was copied from the LG Prada. Woo-Young Kwak, head of LG Mobile Handset R&D Center, said at a press conference, “We consider that Apple copied the Prada phone after the design was unveiled when it was presented in the iF Design Award and won the prize in September 2006.”[8][9]
LG later claimed that Apple stole both the ideas and concept of the Prada phone. A lawsuit by LG had been rumored prior to this announcement; [8] however, LG has remained silent on whether or not they will file a lawsuit.



Not necessarily saying iphone is direct copy of LG Prada but...

If Apple prevails against Samsung, than me think LG will sue Apple. No reason not to as Apple essentially laid the legal precedence for LG to use.

As I've said previously, it really doesn't matter it's like splitting hairs, obviously, they were both working on similar tech at the same time. If you look at the video footage of this device working, from an interface standpoint it's very different from the iPhone and the current Android line up we enjoy today. It was pretty nice for the time though.

"The LG KE850, also known as the LG Prada,[1] is a touchscreen mobile phone made by LG Electronics. It was first announced on December 12, 2006.[2] Images of the device appeared on websites such as Engadget Mobile on December 15, 2006.[3] An official press release showing an image of the device appeared on January 18, 2007.[1] It was the first mobile phone with a capacitive touchscreen. LG Prada sold 1 million units[4][5] in the first 18 months.[6]
A second version of the phone, the LG Prada II (KF900) was announced October 13, 2008. It was released December 2008."

I was looking at "official announce dates". The last time that "controversy" was brought up, I thought that it was proven to have been false and never happened. I seem to recall someone who claimed to be at the event saying that the device was talked about but not shown. But everything on the internet is not always true, so that's really interesting. Out of curiosity, I'm going to look into it more.

I agree with you 100%. If Apple is proven to have "ripped-off" portions of LG's IP, then they should be held accountable. Live by the sword, die by the sword. that's the way it should be.

Cheers.

Bilbo63
May 31, 2011, 07:23 PM
I don't think the Apple board members knew any details. Heck, even AT&T's board took a single executive's word that it would be worth carrying it.

Yeah you could be right on the money. I thought that Steve claimed otherwise at the time. One thing for sure he was not happy about it. But don't you think that the similarities are a little close to have happened entirely by accident? Or is Android a ticking patent time-bomb that has yet to explode as some have said?

Dbrown
May 31, 2011, 09:38 PM
Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

So? Not supplying parts to apple would surely cause more damage to apple than whatever penalties Samsung would have to pay for breach of contract.

w00t951
May 31, 2011, 10:29 PM
Did Samsung really copy the icon colors? That's going a bit far.

AidenShaw
May 31, 2011, 10:55 PM
Did Samsung really copy the icon colors? That's going a bit far.

Apple copied the colors from Windows Mobile.

So?

majorm
Jun 3, 2011, 01:15 AM
That is S. Korea. They report that they are the best at everything and if you look a little further, you find that the numbers don't add up. Their recycling system is wonk, for sure as nothing is reused at all. Germany and Sweden are way waaaay better; things go and get cleaned, not remade from factory.


You know, comments like this makes me wonder if there would be so much uproar if Apple was suing an American company, and not a foreign one. Keep it classy, people.