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MacRumors
May 30, 2011, 01:49 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/30/iphone-4s-with-a5-sim-less-major-new-iphone-5-due-in-2012/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/10/27/154107-iphone_4_sim_slot.jpg
Mac Otakara adds (http://www.macotakara.jp/blog/index.php?ID=12803) some notes about the upcoming iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 models, according to an anonymous source. According to an anonymous source, this reported product by DigiTimes is improved model of iPhone 4 on same form factor, and uses ARM Cortex-A9 chip as CPU, but it is not confirmed whether this model has single CPU or with dual CPU's.Essentially, they confirm what has been hinted at in the past. The new 2011 iPhone ("iPhone 4S") will carry an ARM Cortex-A9 CPU (Apple's A5) though they can't confirm if it's single or dual core. Separately, the iPhone 4S will include an improved 8 mega-pixel camera and 3-4 antennas inside to accommodate the dual modes of AT&T and Verizon.

Separately, Mac Otakara revives an older rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/10/27/apple-developing-custom-built-in-sim-card-for-iphone/) that the iPhone 4S will be "sim-less". We first heard this rumor back in late 2010, when Apple was said to be working with digital security firm Gemalto to create a custom SIM card that would exist as a built-in chip inside the iPhone to allow users to activate their devices with a broad array of carriers. Orange CEO Stephane Richard essentially confirmed (http://allthingsd.com/20110523/exclusive-france-telecom-ceo-on-apple-android-and-how-you-can-kiss-your-unlimited-plan-goodbye/) that Apple had explored this "sim-less" option but had also indicated that Apple had decided against using it.As you probably know, Apple has been working for years on reducing the size of SIM cards because they need space in the phone. They even thought about a device without any SIM card, that is what is known as the e-SIM project.

All of us told them it was a bad idea because the SIM card is a critical piece of the security and authentication process. It would be very difficult for a telco or carrier to manage the customer relationship. I think that they understood this point. We had a very constructive exchange and dialogue with them.It may be possible that Apple ignored those suggestions or that this "eSIM" could be a stopgap measure while waiting for the newly proposed (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/17/apple-proposes-standard-for-smaller-sim-cards/) smaller SIM standard.


Article Link: iPhone 4S with A5, Sim-less? "Major New" iPhone 5 Due in 2012 (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/30/iphone-4s-with-a5-sim-less-major-new-iphone-5-due-in-2012/)



applefan289
May 30, 2011, 01:52 PM
So is there 2 models coming out, or just 2 names for 1 rumored device?

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 01:53 PM
That's false.

Apple is closing its iPhone section of electronics with the immense competition from Samsung as noted in the previous thread.

Also, now that Samsung has demanded the iPhone 5 and the next iPad, Samsung is going to be the one releasing the next iPhone.

:cool:

Adrien24
May 30, 2011, 01:53 PM
It's kind of a no-brainer that there is going to be the iPhone 5 in 2012 and the iPhone 4S this Fall...

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:54 PM
Again with this non-sense about iPhone 4S vs iPhone 5. The iPhone 3GS was named so because it was the same generation as the iPhone 3G, it's because the iPhone 3G didn't fit in the generations.

They aren't going to call the 6th generation iPhone, the iPhone 5.

asdf542
May 30, 2011, 01:55 PM
Naming scheme fail? There will be no iPhone 5 if there is an iPhone 4S.

iPhone = 1st
iPhone 3G = 2nd
iPhone 3GS = 3rd
iPhone 4 = 4th (Notice how this isn't the iPhone 3)
iPhone 5/4S = 5th
iPhone 6/4G = 6th

Also let's see how many thumbs down I can get for fun.

Slix
May 30, 2011, 01:56 PM
We'll see. :rolleyes:

leon44
May 30, 2011, 01:56 PM
eSIM being a stop gap before the smaller sim?

Really?

If you make a phone that doesn't need a sim card why would you update it with one that does.

jayducharme
May 30, 2011, 01:56 PM
I like the current upgrade plan Apple has; it's fitting well with my contract. Each time my contract is up, there's a big revision to the iPhone line, while in the middle of my contract there have been "speed bumps." Keep it up, Apple! :D

LegendKillerUK
May 30, 2011, 01:56 PM
The amount of ******** in these rumours is incredible. It will be a spec update sporting the same case design as the 4. It may be unified for both GSM and CDMA but then again the iPad 2 wasn't.

The idea of a non user replaceable sim is also laughable at this moment in time.

All this will do is disappoint when it is unveiled.

arn
May 30, 2011, 01:57 PM
eSIM being a stop gap before the smaller sim?

Really?

If you make a phone that doesn't need a sim card why would you update it with one that does.

because the carriers don't like it?

arn

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 01:58 PM
The amount of ******** in these rumours is incredible. It will be a spec update sporting the same case design as the 4. It may be unified for both GSM and CDMA but then again the iPad 2 wasn't.

All this will do is disappoint when it is unveiled.

I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

macnisse
May 30, 2011, 01:58 PM
Been waiting for this to happen... now what phone card to put in during vacation to Italy?

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 01:58 PM
and here we go with a new name calling competition.

I am sure its going to be called: iGalaxyPhone.

:cool:

boshii
May 30, 2011, 01:58 PM
Naming scheme fail? There will be no iPhone 5 if there is an iPhone 4S.

iPhone = 1st
iPhone 3G = 2nd
iPhone 3GS = 3rd
iPhone 4 = 4th (Notice how this isn't the iPhone 3)
iPhone 4S = 5th
iPhone 6 = 6th

Why wouldn't the 6th iPhone be called iPhone 4G if it has 4G technology?

asdf542
May 30, 2011, 01:59 PM
Why wouldn't the 6th iPhone be called iPhone 4G if it has 4G technology?

They can call it whatever they want, I simply put it in there as a placeholder to show that 5 would not be the number they would put after it should they decide to go with that option over 4G.

LegendKillerUK
May 30, 2011, 01:59 PM
I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

I have a 3G and was unimpressed with the 3GS. Something faster isn't going to impress me. A speed gain is the baseline of what to expect, that alone won't sell me a phone.

maviso5
May 30, 2011, 02:01 PM
really not bothered unless there is something amazing about the next gen, the iPhone 4 is good enough for me at the moment, time will tell though

wordoflife
May 30, 2011, 02:02 PM
Built in SIM? ... oh hell no. Don't remove one of the advantages of having a GSM phone.
I'll take the dual A5 and 8mp camera though. Coming from a 3GS, I'll be fine.

jonnysods
May 30, 2011, 02:03 PM
I like the current upgrade plan Apple has; it's fitting well with my contract. Each time my contract is up, there's a big revision to the iPhone line, while in the middle of my contract there have been "speed bumps." Keep it up, Apple! :D

Agreed. Carriers in Canada make you wait two years to upgrade. Works for me!

boshii
May 30, 2011, 02:03 PM
As long as iPhone 4 is iOS 5 upgradeable, I don't care about the 4S.

DustinT
May 30, 2011, 02:05 PM
Don't click the link to the original article unless you are fluent in Japanese. Google translate just chokes, its really funny.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 02:06 PM
looks like i started my iphone cycle just at the right time, i got the 3G not caring about the 3GS i got the 4 won't be caring about the "4S". looks like i'll be always up for the redesign refresh :) couldnt be happier and less jealous about it lol

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 02:06 PM
I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

The Retina display is what made the iPhone 4, IMO. CPU upgrades alone don't interest me. Then again, I never used an iPhone 3G, so I have no idea what kind of a speed boost the 3GS was.


If apple does go sim-less, it would be for aesthetic/technical reasons, allowing them to get rid of the slot and make the phone smaller. I hope they don't, though, as that would kill its international functionality.

clientsiman
May 30, 2011, 02:08 PM
Sim-less or built in Sim = no buy for me.

wordoflife
May 30, 2011, 02:08 PM
Why wouldn't the 6th iPhone be called iPhone 4G if it has 4G technology?
Everyone already calls the iPhone 4 the "4G" ....

"Hey, is that the iPhone four -gee?"

I think they are better off just calling it "iPhone" ... just the way they do with the iPods.

firestarter
May 30, 2011, 02:09 PM
Built in SIM? ... oh hell no. Don't remove one of the advantages of having a GSM phone.
I'll take the dual A5 and 8mp camera though. Coming from a 3GS, I'll be fine.

This. Might be OK in the States where you have a single carrier - but I like the ability to travel and swap SIM cards on my (unlocked out of the box) phone.

EricNau
May 30, 2011, 02:10 PM
I don't like the idea of a SIM-less phone. Not that the current iPhone offers any choices of carriers or pre-paid SIMs in the US...

Still, I was hoping that one day we'd be able to experience the ease of swapping SIMs that Europeans do.

LarryC
May 30, 2011, 02:10 PM
Quote:
As you probably know, Apple has been working for years on reducing the size of SIM cards because they need space in the phone. They even thought about a device without any SIM card, that is what is known as the e-SIM project.

e-SIM. That is a bad name. It should have been Sans-SIM :D On a more serious note. Couldn't Apple just design and use their own SIM card for use in their phones only?

mrkramer
May 30, 2011, 02:11 PM
Been waiting for this to happen... now what phone card to put in during vacation to Italy?

If they really have no user replaceable sim then you'll be stuck with AT&T and teir wonderful roaming rates. Your crazy if you think a built in sim means anything more than no more moving a phone to another carrier.

wordoflife
May 30, 2011, 02:11 PM
This. Might be OK in the States where you have a single carrier - but I like the ability to travel and swap SIM cards on my (unlocked out of the box) phone.

Well there's no point making a CDMA+GSM iPhone for the States, and a GSM iPhone every where else. It would make more sense to just sell phone. But that's not my point, even if its not moving SIM across carriers (and mind you that some people in the States use T-Mobile), some people like moving SIMs across devices depending on whether they feel like using their WP7 or iPhone today.

Honestly, having a SIM is the main reason why I like having GSM. Otherwise I could care less ... but no, I do care because I want my SIM!

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 02:13 PM
I have a 3G and was unimpressed with the 3GS. Something faster isn't going to impress me. A speed gain is the baseline of what to expect, that alone won't sell me a phone.

The only problem with the 3GS is that it was so much more capable than the 3G, that 3rd party app developers never actually wrote anything to take advantage of it. Epic were pretty much the first with the Epic Citadel demo. The phone was so much more capable than the 3G that to write software to take advantage of it would mean foregoing the entire 3G and original iPhone installed base.

That sucked being an early 3GS adopter. Knowing your phone can offer you such a superior experience, yet lacking the software to get it.

viscanti
May 30, 2011, 02:14 PM
Something doesn't add up with all these rumors. Why would apple wait for a fall release for a phone with just a minor spec bump? I just don't see how a 4S fits into the current naming scheme or why it would require a fall release, especially when they have so many 3GS users coming off contract soon looking for their next new phone.

I don't see how it could be a 4S, or why a 4S would require a delay from the normal update pattern.

wordoflife
May 30, 2011, 02:16 PM
Something doesn't add up with all these rumors. Why would apple wait for a fall release for a phone with just a minor spec bump? I just don't see how a 4S fits into the current naming scheme or why it would require a fall release, especially when they have so many 3GS users coming off contract soon looking for their next new phone.

I don't see how it could be a 4S, or why a 4S would require a delay from the normal update pattern.

Because then they'll be able to sell more [white] iPhone 4's. When they have exhausted those sales, they'll throw out something new and people will be like "omg, a new iPhone ... must ... have ...."


I'm hoping for a new iPhone this summer though. :D


And those who are saying the 3G to 3GS transition wasn't impressive at all ... maybe not when it was running on 3.x but on 4.x, you'll wish you had a 3GS.

LegendKillerUK
May 30, 2011, 02:16 PM
The only problem with the 3GS is that it was so much more capable than the 3G, that 3rd party app developers never actually wrote anything to take advantage of it. Epic were pretty much the first with the Epic Citadel demo. The phone was so much more capable than the 3GS that to write software to take advantage of it would mean foregoing the entire 3G and original iPhone installed base.

That sucked being an early 3GS adopter. Knowing your phone can offer you such a superior experience, yet lacking the software to get it.

The only reason speed doesn't impress me is that by the end of year with updates you tend to lose a fair amount of it. Now the iPhone 4 is slower, springboard animations are questionable at best as well. The speed only stays for so long so I want more for my money. e.g. better camera etc. The camera on the 3GS might as well be the one on the 3G for how much better it looked lol.

firestarter
May 30, 2011, 02:16 PM
That sucked being an early 3GS adopter. Knowing your phone can offer you such a superior experience, yet lacking the software to get it.

That's one way of looking at it. As an early adopter of the 3GS too... I'm happy that the enhanced speed of the phone has given it a great longevity. Mine still feels snappy and usable two years on - even after the big iOS update. I'm not sure 3G owners would say the same.

siksik6
May 30, 2011, 02:17 PM
I love the iPhone, and have owned every model so far, but I went to the Galaxy S2 for the bigger, brighter screen and much better camera.

Resolution is better on the iPhone4 admittedly, but I just couldn't go back to a 3.5" screen any more.

No 4" screen, no dice. Guess I'll have to wait for the 5.

Reach9
May 30, 2011, 02:18 PM
I dropped it's legitimacy as soon as i saw this:

Macotakara adds some notes about the upcoming iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 models, according to an anonymous source.

This has fake written all over it. They don't even know if the A5 will be dual core or single core, when it obviously will be Dual Core. And sim-less? I don't think so.

I dislike how these sources degrade the odd iPhone upgrades. "oh 3GS was a minor upgrade" and now "iPhone 4S will be a minor upgrade". Also, why the name 4S? Some random developer with the same mentality called it that, just because they got a Dual Core iPhone to test their apps with, and now everyone is throwing it around.
Every iPhone upgrade is major.
With that kind of mentality the iPad 2 should've been the iPad 1S.

Also, it's not Apple-like to call the 6th generation iPhone, the iPhone 5. Plus, it wouldn't make sense to release iOS 5 with an iPhone 4S and iOS 6 with an iPhone 5.

LegendKillerUK
May 30, 2011, 02:18 PM
That's one way of looking at it. As an early adopter of the 3GS too... I'm happy that the enhanced speed of the phone has given it a great longevity. Mine still feels snappy and usable two years on - even after the big iOS update. I'm not sure 3G owners would say the same.

I use this phrase a lot in real life when asked how my 3G is doing so I'll type it here.:p

"Slower than erosion"

It's fairly usable on 3.1.3 though.

2IS
May 30, 2011, 02:18 PM
I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. You've made that claim before and it's just as inaccurate today as it was the first time.

Screen? Much better rear camera? forward facing camera, battery life?

The 3G to 3GS was a speed increase (albeit a much needed one) The 3GS>4 was another speed bump, a redesign, and everything else.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 02:19 PM
the idea of a simless design goes against GSM standards. Sim card allows for easy jumping between phones.
Also every year the activation mess with the iPhone is 100% apple fault for NOT following the standard for all the other phones. They slam AT&T's system and other carriers systems by requiring you to activate a new sim. That makes it a royal mess.
If Apple would follow the standard like everyone else it is take the sim card out of the old phone and put it in the new phone. All done, no activation require and no slamming AT&T's system once a year. A system that is not and never should be design for a slamming like that. It is design to handle the much lower load of normal sim updates and new customers.
The sim card in my current phone is over 4 years old and on my 3rd contract and 3rd phone. No point to replace the sim if it is still good. Hell it is not like the sim card is used for much any more on modern smart phones.

Piggie
May 30, 2011, 02:20 PM
How would sim-less work if you fly a lot and change sims now for the country you are in?

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 02:20 PM
That's one way of looking at it. As an early adopter of the 3GS too... I'm happy that the enhanced speed of the phone has given it a great longevity. Mine still feels snappy and usable two years on - even after the big iOS update. I'm not sure 3G owners would say the same.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy that I still have a snappy phone all those years later and quite frankly, I wouldn't have wanted a 3G and not even being able to get desktop backgrounds.

Hence why I think making the iPhone 4 having close to the same internals that the 3GS has means it will have that much reduced life compared to our venerable model.

Bring on an A5 equipped iPhone 4, call it whatever you want, it'll truely be the 5th generation iPhone and be a very worthy upgrade.

wordoflife
May 30, 2011, 02:21 PM
I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. You've made that claim before and it's just as inaccurate today as it was the first time.

Screen? Much better rear camera? forward facing camera, battery life?

The 3G to 3GS was a speed increase (albeit a much needed one) The 3GS>4 was another speed bump, a redesign, and everything else.

Yeah, the iPhone 4 was an impressive bump. I'm still confused as to why they didn't bump the GPU in the 4 though. Its the same one that's in the 3GS.


How would sim-less work if you fly a lot and change sims now for the country you are in?

It wouldn't, but the article said that Apple decided against going simless.

jav6454
May 30, 2011, 02:22 PM
Built in SIM?

DO_NOT_WANT.jpg.tiff

firestarter
May 30, 2011, 02:22 PM
i use this phrase a lot in real life when asked how my 3g is doing so i'll type it here.:p

"slower than erosion"


:)

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 02:23 PM
I think I can imagine a way how this could be done very nicely.

Apple will ship a small SIM adaptor with their new iPhone which you will connect to device, insert your SIM in it and it will transfer all data to the phone and activate it. From that point you won't need your SIM nor the SIM adaptor. When you put the SIM into a different device it will automatically deactivate the virtual SIM copy in your other phone. If you often switch between two SIM cards you will have to carry this special SIM adpator with you.

Sounds okay to me... :p

skellener
May 30, 2011, 02:23 PM
Sticking with my 3Gs until we see an iPhone on a fast real 4G (LTE) network. Why bother upgrading if it's gonna be the same crappy network. You'll be stuck for two more years.

LegendKillerUK
May 30, 2011, 02:26 PM
:)

It was my first smartphone so for a techie like me it'll always be remembered.:)

Every other iPhone since is just an evolution of it to me. The 3G will always be my favourite.

How sad, I'm getting nostalgic over a phone. :p

SgtPepper23
May 30, 2011, 02:26 PM
have i been too optimistic in holding out for a Sprint iPhone? Granted, reception isn't as brilliant as Verizon, but i've grown fond of Sprint in the past 7 years that i've had their service.
As for the naming, i forgot to quote the person who said it first, somewhere above, just remove the number schemes like the iPods! You don't hear people say, "I have an iPod Nano 5." I think it would make it a whole lot more simple. None of this 4GS or 3G or other crazy shenanigans!

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 02:27 PM
Yeah, the iPhone 4 was an impressive bump. I'm still confused as to why they didn't bump the GPU in the 4 though. Its the same one that's in the 3GS.

So is the CPU. The only bumped the clock speed. It's still a Cortex A8, just like the 3GS had.

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 02:27 PM
Built in SIM?

DO_NOT_WANT.jpg.tiff

here is your pictures for that.
http://theducks.org/pictures/do-not-want-dog.jpg

Mousse
May 30, 2011, 02:29 PM
Sim-less or built in Sim = no buy for me.

I hear that. Having a quick and cheap replacement is why I like GSM phones. SIM-less. Your phone craps out, SOL (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=S.O.L.) for 2 weeks.:rolleyes:

Full of Win
May 30, 2011, 02:30 PM
If the no SIM part is true, Apple can shove their next super phone. There are several activities that I do that I don't want to risk my iPhone 4....which is why I use a SIM adapter and a throw-away GSM phone.

firestarter
May 30, 2011, 02:32 PM
I hear that. Having a quick and cheap replacement is why I like GSM phones. SIM-less. Your phone craps out, SOL (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=S.O.L.) for 2 weeks.:rolleyes:

Exactly!

It's not just putting other SIM cards in your iPhone, it's the ability to put your iPhone SIM card in something else.

Lots of times I've taken my SIM out of my iPhone and transferred to my old Nokia. My number transfers too... switch the Nokia on and all my calls are directed to it. Very useful if I'm going somewhere hazardous (paintballing, some concerts etc.) where I'm worried my phone will be stolen or damaged.

PeterQVenkman
May 30, 2011, 02:33 PM
Is that a metal back? I like it. Less glass to shatter.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 02:33 PM
Whats the problem with eSIM?

It's still a SIM but instead of replacing the tiny bit of plastic you download a new one and install it. A real SIM is just software anyway, just runs inside a little chip, that's all.

Being software doesn't mean you can't change it, it makes it easier!

Imagine going abroad and downloading a new SIM instead of having to find a shop, negotiate the local language, figure out which tariff to get..

In the extreme case Apple could even run multiple virtual SIM cards at the same time. Two networks without the physical space taken by two cards.

That's why the networks are running scared of this, and saying this is a bad thing.. well it is, for them.

As for the phone crapping out, well the Apple Store replaces them on the same day or close to that.

Number 41
May 30, 2011, 02:35 PM
I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

The 3GS was a crap upgrade. It moved a little faster -- so what. It was functionally the same as the 3G. The only differences became apparent when iPhone OS4 bricked the 3G due to it's incredibly poor optimization (and "planned obsolescence" decision to deny multi-tasking to the 3G even though jailbroken phones could run it).

I wish I was on the proper upgrade cycle, but my contract with another carrier made me wait to go iPhone until 3GS. Now I'm stuck on the "down" upgrade cycle getting an old phone every 2 years while the even-year upgraders get cool new stuff.

jclardy
May 30, 2011, 02:36 PM
I think these rumors should get their naming conventions straight.

iPhone (1st gen)
iPhone 3G (2nd gen)
iPhone 3GS (3rd gen)
iPhone 4 (4th gen)
iPhone "4S" (Makes sense if it is a speed boost...)
iPhone 5?? - Does not make sense because it is the 6th generation. Could be iPhone 4G, but I think a ton of people would be confused by that because many people call it the "iPhone 4G" already, even thought it is not.

I think the most likely case is for Apple to not go with the "4S" name and just call the next one iPhone 5.

zedsdead
May 30, 2011, 02:39 PM
If they don't increase the screen size, I'm sticking with my iPhone 4. I do use the camera a lot, but the current model is excellent. Speed on the iPhone at this point is not a major issue...looking more forward to iOS 5. Plus I do not want to use up my upgrade pricing should Apple go back to the June/July window next year.

Number 41
May 30, 2011, 02:40 PM
Bring on an A5 equipped iPhone 4, call it whatever you want, it'll truely be the 5th generation iPhone and be a very worthy upgrade.

I sometimes don't think you even read what you write -- why do you think the iPhone A5 will be any different than the 3GS? It'll be faster, but no one will write software to support it because they don't want to lose legacy-support for iP4 and iPad1 users.

So, once again, you'll own a phone that can't utilize it's own speed. A feature that can't be used is effectively worthless to the consumer.

asdf542
May 30, 2011, 02:40 PM
I think these rumors should get their naming conventions straight.

iPhone (1st gen)
iPhone 3G (2nd gen)
iPhone 3GS (3rd gen)
iPhone 4 (4th gen)
iPhone "4S" (Makes sense if it is a speed boost...)
iPhone 5?? - Does not make sense because it is the 6th generation. Could be iPhone 4G, but I think a ton of people would be confused by that because many people call it the "iPhone 4G" already, even thought it is not.

I think the most likely case is for Apple to not go with the "4S" name and just call the next one iPhone 5.
Exactly what I said on the front page, but I guess people don't like thinking with logic because my post is currently at a -3 rating. :rolleyes:

wordoflife
May 30, 2011, 02:43 PM
Exactly what I said on the front page, but I guess people don't like thinking with logic because my post is currently at a -3 rating. :rolleyes:

Maybe your post had the word "android" on it. people on MR hate that word.

Zunjine
May 30, 2011, 02:43 PM
I see a lot of people worrying that an iPhone without a physical, swappable sim card would be handicapped when you go abroad - they say you wouldn't be able to replace the sim with a local one. I don't so.

A sim card is merely a memory chip which carries certain network settings and other data. It's just data. So, essentially, instead of a sim card which you put into your phone you would download virtual sims which you could 'swap' within the eSim settings. Better than physical sims because you won't need to worry about losing them and, what's more, you won't need to find a shop to buy a sim from. You're off to India? Go to the website of an indian telecoms provider and request an eSim. Want to switch your phone to a different provider? Same deal. Just go to their site and download an eSim.

The only down side is that you can't take your sim from the iPhone and use it in another handset. That said there's no reason this can't be worked around and the advantages of eSims could certainly outweigh the downside.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 02:43 PM
I sometimes don't think you even read what you write -- why do you think the iPhone A5 will be any different than the 3GS? It'll be faster, but no one will write software to support it because they don't want to lose legacy-support for iP4 and iPad1 users.


The 3GS? Even the iPhone 4 is clearly faster than that. Seeing the A5 on the iPad2 everything just flies, my iP4 feels sluggish now.

There's no need to write software to support it, existing ones will simply work a lot faster.

Crzyrio
May 30, 2011, 02:44 PM
I think you people are misunderstanding the whole 'e-sim' thing. It is not like a CDMA phone where you would be locked to the carrier. If an e-sim was in the i-Phone, it would give the user options to change options on the e-sim. So if you were to buy an unlocked phone,

you could set the phone to use AT&T when in the USA, then when you visit Canada you could switch to Bell, and when you go backpacking in Europe you can switch to O2, etc. All this without have to worry about taking out and putting in a new sim card.

Its similar to the dual sim phones they have in some countries, you can pick which 'sim' you want to use and when.

-Rio

Phil A.
May 30, 2011, 02:45 PM
I think you people are misunderstanding the whole 'e-sim' thing. It is not like a CDMA phone where you would be locked to the carrier. If an e-sim was in the i-Phone, it would give the user options to change options on the e-sim. So if you were to buy an unlocked phone,

you could set the phone to use AT&T when in the USA, then when you visit Canada you could switch to Bell, and when you go backpacking in Europe you can switch to O2, etc. All this without have to worry about taking out and putting in a new sim card.

Its similar to the dual sim phones they have in some countries, you can pick which 'sim' you want to use and when.

-Rio

And what if the carrier in the country you are going to doesn't support the "sim switching", or refuses to switch you over. What if you want to temporarily use a different phone on your account?


There is no way I would ever buy a "simless" GSM phone - it's a crazy idea, does away with one of the huge advantages of GSM, and makes no sense at all.

I buy my phones sim-free so I have the flexibility to drop in a local SIM when I go abroad, or switch my SIM between different phones (such as a cheap and cheerful phone if I'm going somewhere where I don't want to risk my iPhone) as I want to, and I don't care how good the iPhone 4S (or whatever it's called) may be, I'll stick with my 4 if the next phone comes out with a built in SIM

Tailpike1153
May 30, 2011, 02:47 PM
Maybe Apple is moving into the MVNO market. Apple through its cash reserves buys up large tracks of prepaid minutes from various carriers where iPhone/world iPhone would be available. Your phone would have to be programmed with a base carrier. For me that would be ATT. Say I leave my base carrier's coverage area, by going up to Thunder Bay, Ontario. My phone should now sense that I'm out of normal coverage. Instead of auto-roaming, it should pop-up with warning message and ask me if I want to roam or buy airtime on Rogers, Telus, etc through iTunes. If I complete the purchase, I get wireless airtime without getting charged by ATT for roaming. There is nothing on the carriers to maintain account wise because this would be an itunes transaction. I know kind goofy but one way a mutant GSM iphone could be feasible.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 02:48 PM
pushing the new iphone to fall or early next year is going to hurt their sales in the long run imo but thats just my opinion, i know at least 5 people at uni who switched from their 3G/3GS to Samsung because they just couldnt wait any longer due to their contract being over or just bc their phone was really dated.

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 02:48 PM
drop in a local SIM when I go abroad

You still will be, read my post :rolleyes:

cube
May 30, 2011, 02:49 PM
Closed platform, no iPhone.

No SIM, NEVER iPhone.

Tailpike1153
May 30, 2011, 02:49 PM
I think you people are misunderstanding the whole 'e-sim' thing. It is not like a CDMA phone where you would be locked to the carrier. If an e-sim was in the i-Phone, it would give the user options to change options on the e-sim. So if you were to buy an unlocked phone,

you could set the phone to use AT&T when in the USA, then when you visit Canada you could switch to Bell, and when you go backpacking in Europe you can switch to O2, etc. All this without have to worry about taking out and putting in a new sim card.

Its similar to the dual sim phones they have in some countries, you can pick which 'sim' you want to use and when.

-Rio


That's one of the ways I saw it. Like your thinking.

QuarterSwede
May 30, 2011, 02:50 PM
Maybe Apple is moving into the MVNO market. Apple through its cash reserves buys up large tracks of prepaid minutes from various carriers where iPhone/world iPhone would be available. Your phone would have to be programmed with a base carrier. For me that would be ATT. Say I leave my base carrier's coverage area, by going up to Thunder Bay, Ontario. My phone should now sense that I'm out of normal coverage. Instead of auto-roaming, it should pop-up with warning message and ask me if I want to roam or buy airtime on Rogers, Telus, etc through iTunes. If I complete the purchase, I get wireless airtime without getting charged by ATT for roaming. There is nothing on the carriers to maintain account wise because this would be an itunes transaction. I know kind goofy but one way a mutant GSM iphone could be feasible.
That's not likely to happen but a darn good idea. Most of the time when I'm willing to throw down coin on buying international minutes is when I'm already in the country. They could make so much more on this type of impulse buy.

Žalgiris
May 30, 2011, 02:51 PM
And what if the carrier in the country you are going to doesn't support the "sim switching", or refuses to switch you over. What if you want to temporarily use a different phone on your account?


I assume it will in all countries where iPhone is sold officially.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 02:52 PM
Maybe Apple is moving into the MVNO market. Apple through its cash reserves buys up large tracks of prepaid minutes from various carriers where iPhone/world iPhone would be available.

It's not a SIM-less phone, it's an eSIM. There's still a SIM in there, just means it's downloaded and not physically replaced.

So there is no need for Apple to buy minutes. When you went roaming the phone could just list different carrier options for that region and offer to download a new SIM for the new carrier you picked.

maclaptop
May 30, 2011, 02:54 PM
As a true Apple enthusiast, I'm sad to see that Apple is taking the easy way out. Keeping the iPhone 4 "look".

I really wanted a fresh new iPhone 5 this year not next.

A phone that I could be proud of, as one of Apples best phones yet.

There is no way I will buy another iPhone 4 look alike from Apple. Ever.

So, it looks like I will relegate my current iPhone 4 to the pile of unused phones collecting dust and waiting to be recycled.

Perhaps 2012 will be a better year for the iPhone, as this year will go down in history as the year of Antennagate - and it's milk toast follow up look alike.

Man, how I wish Apple would get their ducks in a row and do what they are capable of. Coasting along does not serve Apple well.

Oh sure they will make billions and sell everything they make. But that proves absolutely nothing other than the gullibility of the American Public.

TV watching, iPad using, sit on their ass, overweight Americans.

Sad, ever so sad.



On a POSITIVE note, I'm super happy with my new unlocked, Samsung S II. I am enjoying this phone so much it's crazy.

Not being one to declare one phone better than the next, I will simply say it's relieved me from the frustrations of the iPhone 4.

And THAT is a big achievement.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 02:55 PM
And what if the carrier in the country you are going to doesn't support the "sim switching", or refuses to switch you over.

What carrier would say no to more users spending cash on their network?

They don't even need new tariffs or anything, they just need to upload the SIM data instead of putting it in physical SIMs. It's not complicated really.

WiiDSmoker
May 30, 2011, 02:55 PM
<3 my iPhone 4, but looking at everyone else have bigger screens makes me jealous :(

Crzyrio
May 30, 2011, 02:57 PM
And what if the carrier in the country you are going to doesn't support the "sim switching", or refuses to switch you over. What if you want to temporarily use a different phone on your account?


There is no way I would ever buy a "simless" GSM phone - it's a crazy idea, does away with one of the huge advantages of GSM, and makes no sense at all.

I buy my phones sim-free so I have the flexibility to drop in a local SIM when I go abroad, or switch my SIM between different phones (such as a cheap and cheerful phone if I'm going somewhere where I don't want to risk my iPhone) as I want to, and I don't care how good the iPhone 4S (or whatever it's called) may be, I'll stick with my 4 if the next phone comes out with a built in SIM


and here you have the same flexibility to switch.

That is like saying, what if the carrier abroad dosent support your phone band or what if they dont carry the right sim size or what if there is no carrier? Situation can always be made

E-Sims will eventually become the norm and all carriers will start taking it in.

The only downside of an e-Sim is that you cant switch phones. but i am sure there is a way to transfer the data from phone to phone

Žalgiris
May 30, 2011, 02:58 PM
As a true Apple enthusiast, I'm sad to see that Apple is taking the easy way out. Keeping the iPhone 4 "look".

I really wanted a fresh new iPhone 5 this year not next.

A phone that I could be proud of, as one of Apples best phones yet.

There is no way I will buy another iPhone 4 look alike from Apple. Ever.



People like you are funny to read. Is your iPhone 4 not working or what? Wait untill next year and buy iPhone 5 then and even then your iPhone 4 will be just fine.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 02:58 PM
What carrier would say no to more users spending cash on their network?

They don't even need new tariffs or anything, they just need to upload the SIM data instead of putting it in physical SIMs. It's not complicated really.

i'd be more worried about your carrier not letting u use different networks

jasonxneo
May 30, 2011, 03:02 PM
Wow this is great! :apple:

ciTiger
May 30, 2011, 03:02 PM
If this is true my iPhone 4 will last me another good year!:D

vampyren
May 30, 2011, 03:07 PM
IF apple removes the SIM it will be the final drop for me. Even though i dont like Android that much it will allow me the freedom and simplicity to swap the sim and use cheaper option when i go abroad on work or vacation. Hell i want that freedom.
And btw if Samsung manages to make place for both SIM + uSD card and still make a slimmer phone (Galaxy SII) with dual core then this is just BS from Apple that they need the space.

As much as i love Apple products and iOS i wont allow Apple to dictate for me what i should use. Maybe by this time even Nokia makes a nice win mobile :)

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 03:08 PM
i'd be more worried about your carrier not letting u use different networks

Like the carrier-locked devices currently sold? Well someone would have to find a way around those, same as they have found a way around the existing lock.

Phil A.
May 30, 2011, 03:08 PM
You still will be, read my post :rolleyes:

Instead of rolling your eyes (I did read your post), why don't you answer the second part of my issue - how do you propose I take my e-sim out of my iPhone and put it into the cheap nokia phone I use when I go to the beach, or football training, etc?

If all phones supported e-sims then it wouldn't be a problem as you'd still have the flexibility of a physical sim, but until then, it's one bleeding edge I've got no desire to be on

ablack774
May 30, 2011, 03:08 PM
And what if the carrier in the country you are going to doesn't support the "sim switching", or refuses to switch you over. What if you want to temporarily use a different phone on your account?


There is no way I would ever buy a "simless" GSM phone - it's a crazy idea, does away with one of the huge advantages of GSM, and makes no sense at all.

I buy my phones sim-free so I have the flexibility to drop in a local SIM when I go abroad, or switch my SIM between different phones (such as a cheap and cheerful phone if I'm going somewhere where I don't want to risk my iPhone) as I want to, and I don't care how good the iPhone 4S (or whatever it's called) may be, I'll stick with my 4 if the next phone comes out with a built in SIM


Yeah i agree, When I go to festivals, concerts etc I have a cheap Nokia phone that i just bung the iPhone sim into. What would I do now? I would not take my iPhone to festivals NO WAY!

Guess ill just have to change my number everytime i do!

brsboarder
May 30, 2011, 03:08 PM
If thats all that apple does for this year, iphone sales are going to go down pretty drastically, it will be outdated the day it comes out.

RKpro
May 30, 2011, 03:09 PM
Great. But eSIM thing is a bad idea. I often swap sims when I travel, to buy cheap local service.

winterspan
May 30, 2011, 03:09 PM
Hopefully Apple doesn't get clever and decide to increase yield on the A5 by fusing off processing cores that don't work thus creating "single-core" A5s for the iPhone...

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 03:11 PM
IF apple removes the SIM it will be the final drop for me.

No one is removing the SIM, it's just becoming software. When you go abroad you can download a new one.

It's very good that you're all suspicious, but don't ditch it until the details are out. The technology itself is very promising.

slackpacker
May 30, 2011, 03:13 PM
Now improved with the secret government v chip.... get them while their hot.

Truffy
May 30, 2011, 03:14 PM
I'm kinda missing this bit. What "major" will be new?

bushido
May 30, 2011, 03:17 PM
I'm kinda missing this bit. What "major" will be new?

ur talking about apple, like anyone actually knows anything unless they forget it at a bar.

i'd assume a bigger screen (hopefully) and some tweaks with the design

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 03:17 PM
I'm kinda missing this bit. What "major" will be new?

The price tag. It'll blow your mind.

Kariya
May 30, 2011, 03:19 PM
Again with this non-sense about iPhone 4S vs iPhone 5. The iPhone 3GS was named so because it was the same generation as the iPhone 3G, it's because the iPhone 3G didn't fit in the generations.

They aren't going to call the 6th generation iPhone, the iPhone 5.

Its going to be called iPhone 4S. The sooner you subscribe, the less frustrated you'll be.

paradox00
May 30, 2011, 03:21 PM
Good to know that people still don't understand how a built-in SIM is intended to work.

It would kind of be like a dual SIM phone where you can easily swap between carriers, but you wouldn't be limited to just two carriers. The internal SIM could be programmed for any number of carriers, without the need to track down a physical SIM card for each carrier.

In theory, once the standard was widely adopted, you could electronically swap your SIM between phones as well, just like you can with a regular SIM card. This standard is going through the same licensing body that governs the plastic SIM cards, it's not an Apple proprietary standard.

Hopefully Apple does adopt this technology, just so people can understand how it works.

Žalgiris
May 30, 2011, 03:22 PM
It's a phone, people. Don't you have better things to do than buying new phones every year or whining that new phone is not what you wanted.

paradox00
May 30, 2011, 03:24 PM
Its going to be called iPhone 4S. The sooner you get on board the less frustrated you'll be.

There's zero reason to call it the 4S. A rumor doesn't become true just because a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon.

AgentElliot007
May 30, 2011, 03:26 PM
I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

From a hardware standpoint, 3GS to 4 was a far bigger upgrade than 3G to 3GS. Retina Display? Vastly superior camera with flash?

The iPhone 3GS did not make the iPhone 3G look antiquated. The iPhone 4 made every iPhone before it look 5 years behind.

mantan
May 30, 2011, 03:29 PM
My question is who was the big audience for 2011 anyway?

While 2010 sales were largely fueled by a big technological leap, they were also HEAVILY assisted by AT&T extending early upgrade eligibility to a lot of users. Obviously this was done in an effort to lock up as many users as possible before Verizon got the iPhone. Since then they have quietly extended the time it takes to qualify for an upgrade.

Most users won't be eligible for a discounted device until 2012. Heck, many who used to be eligible in 12 months now have to wait an additional 5-6 months.

Sure there are diehards on this site that will sell their device and use the funds to pay the difference, but most casual users are likley happy with their iPhone and will just chug along until they are eligible for an upgrade when the big improvement comes with iPhone 5.

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 03:30 PM
There's zero reason to call it the 4S. A rumor doesn't become true just because a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon.

Zero? No. If it's an internal spec bump without a case redesign, just like the iPhone 3GS, then it would make sense. It's also just as likely it'll be called the iPhone 5, or that they'll finally dropping version monikers and just call it the iPhone. Apple can name it whatever they want.




While 2010 sales were largely fueled by a big technological leap, they were also HEAVILY assisted by AT&T extending early upgrade eligibility to a lot of users. Obviously this was done in an effort to lock up as many users as possible before Verizon got the iPhone. Since then they have quietly extended the time it takes to qualify for an upgrade.

There's no reason Apple couldn't strike a similar deal with AT&T again--say, as long as you're eligible for an upgrade by the end of the year, you're eligible for the upgrade as soon as the new iPhone comes out.

nicky89
May 30, 2011, 03:30 PM
It's a phone, people. Don't you have better things to do than buying new phones every year or whining that new phone is not what you wanted.

Just wanted to say the same, thanks man;).

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 03:31 PM
Instead of rolling your eyes (I did read your post), why don't you answer the second part of my issue - how do you propose I take my e-sim out of my iPhone and put it into the cheap nokia phone I use when I go to the beach, or football training, etc?

My theory is that you will get a normal SIM card, use an iPhone 5 SIM adaptor to transfer SIM data into your phone. When your done you will keep the SIM so you can use it in other phones or when you wipe your iPhone. As I said before, when you put SIM card into different phone, after singing in to mobile network the SIM data in iPhone 5 will be wiped.

Let me know if I make sense now.

parapup
May 30, 2011, 03:32 PM
If I was into betting, I would bet a hundred bucks that Apple will release a significantly redesigned, dual core iPhone before 2012.

If they don't, they will lose market share substantially to the onslaught of number of Android, WP7 and webOS devices.

QuarterSwede
May 30, 2011, 03:32 PM
From a hardware standpoint, 3GS to 4 was a far bigger upgrade than 3G to 3GS. Retina Display? Vastly superior camera with flash?

The iPhone 3GS did not make the iPhone 3G look antiquated. The iPhone 4 made every iPhone before it look 5 years behind.
I agree. Everyone gets hung up on the cpu+gpu combo being very similar that they forget all of the other daily use specs that make the iP4 much better. Honestly, the screen alone is worth the upgrade as it makes anything with a lower DPI look like garbage.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 03:33 PM
My question is who was the big audience for 2011 anyway?

CDMA networks in China?

The world is not the US and AT&T/Verizon you know, big big market out there.

Echo64
May 30, 2011, 03:37 PM
Why is it that any "Anonymous rumor" is taken seriously these days? We have more than enough evidence to support that this is absolute BS...

The iPhone WILL NOT, (i repeat) WILL NOT get rid of the Sim card. That is absolutely suicide for Apple right now. None of the major wireless companies support it, and the advantages are very slim right now. What is more likely, is that apple will introduce the micro-sim, like we were told about months ago. There is simply no real evidence in the contrary.

Next, These iPhone 4S rumors also need to go. There is no way in hell that apple is going to call their next gen phone the "4S", there are plenty of people that would be confused and it makes no sense to lock themselves out of a logical "iPhone 5" title. As it was said like 100 times already, the 3G and 3GS were named that way because it was the '3G' network that they were emphasizing.

TBH, I don't really believe any of these rumors right now- Apple has stated again and again that supplies have not been affected, so don't you think they would have at least hinted if they were going to make a drastic change to their very strict release schedule ? Also, believe it or not, most people will not just buy the white iPhone 4 just because there is no proper upgrade. Pushing the schedule back risks that many 3G and 3GS users will go to another phone.

Why is this risky you ask? Well according to the rumors there will be no mention of a new iphone a WWDC (in about a week), When WWDC comes and goes the vast majority of people are not gonna be like "Oh that's ok I'm sure apple is gonna release it in September, although i have no word from them, I'll just wait on good faith in hopes that the phone doesn't suck..."- NO, IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. WWDC has always been centered around the iPhone reveal. Even if they push back the release, I cannot see them ignoring one of their main selling points.

anonymous guy
May 30, 2011, 03:37 PM
Are people really are assuming carriers will be quick to adopt an e-SIM standard? Despite how "simple" an e-SIM standard could potentially be, getting competing telecoms, both domestically and internationally, will be a tough task. Most would rather want you to stay with them and pay inflated international rates.

Many people use calling only pre-paid sims (intended for dumbphones) to get by when using an international carrier. Carriers would likely force you to get an expensive voice + data plan, knowing your e-SIM is attached to a smartphone.

By the way, how's that space saving Micro SIM adoption rate doing (outside of tablets)?

Certinfy
May 30, 2011, 03:38 PM
No sim = No thanks.
No dual core on this year's model = No thanks.
Both = ****! Should have got a SGS2 when it was released!

outlawarth
May 30, 2011, 03:41 PM
Why is it that any "Anonymous rumor" is taken seriously these days? We have more than enough evidence to support that this is absolute BS...

The iPhone WILL NOT, (i repeat) WILL NOT get rid of the Sim card. That is absolutely suicide for Apple right now. None of the major wireless companies support it, and the advantages are very slim right now. What is more likely, is that apple will introduce the micro-sim, like we were told about months ago. There is simply no real evidence in the contrary.

Next, These iPhone 4S rumors also need to go. There is no way in hell that apple is going to call their next gen phone the "4S", there are plenty of people that would be confused and it makes no sense to lock themselves out of a logical "iPhone 5" title. As it was said like 100 times already, the 3G and 3GS were named that way because it was the '3G' network that they were emphasizing.

TBH, I don't really believe any of these rumors right now- Apple has stated again and again that supplies have not been affected, so don't you think they would have at least hinted if they were going to make a drastic change to their very strict release schedule ? Also, believe it or not, most people will not just buy the white iPhone 4 just because there is no proper upgrade. Pushing the schedule back risks that many 3G and 3GS users will go to another phone.

Why is this risky you ask? Well according to the rumors there will be no mention of a new iphone a WWDC (in about a week), When WWDC comes and goes the vast majority of people are not gonna be like "Oh that's ok I'm sure apple is gonna release it in September, although i have no word from them, I'll just wait on good faith in hopes that the phone doesn't suck..."- NO, IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. WWDC has always been centered around the iPhone reveal. Even if they push back the release, I cannot see them ignoring one of their main selling points.

Finally some intelligent commentary. Very well said.

Adidas Addict
May 30, 2011, 03:42 PM
Built in sim card is a big NO-NO, what about all of us that buy sim-free unlocked iPhones direct from Apple for the simple reason we use multiple sim-cards on multiple networks?

They can get that idea right out of their heads!

Kariya
May 30, 2011, 03:43 PM
No sim = No thanks.
No dual core on this year's model = No thanks.
Both = ****! Should have got a SGS2 when it was released!

Its only just come out this month?

There's zero reason to call it the 4S. A rumor doesn't become true just because a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon.

I honestly couldn't care less what it is called. I was just teasing him because he takes the whole 4S thing too seriously. The 4S is just a reference to the style of upgrade i.e. spec bump not major overhaul. Maybe i missed it but I don't recall anyone ever saying this was an official moniker.

Thunderhawks
May 30, 2011, 03:45 PM
Sim-less or built in Sim = no buy for me.

Sim Sim-in-nay, sim sim-in-nay
Sim sim cher-ee!
A 5 is as lucky, as lucky can be
Sim Sim-in-nay, sim sim-in-nay
Sim sim cher-oo!
Good luck will rub off when all major carriers end up with you

Or you skip 4GS and that's lucky too

a little loosely adapted from ...............

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 03:45 PM
Why is this risky you ask? Well according to the rumors there will be no mention of a new iphone a WWDC (in about a week), When WWDC comes and goes the vast majority of people are not gonna be like "Oh that's ok I'm sure apple is gonna release it in September, although i have no word from them, I'll just wait on good faith in hopes that the phone doesn't suck..."- NO, IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. WWDC has always been centered around the iPhone reveal. Even if they push back the release, I cannot see them ignoring one of their main selling points.


The source of the no hardware rumor at WWDC is Jim Dalrymple, who has very good sources. (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/03/28/dalrymple)Count on it being true.

I think Apple is so confident in iOS 5 that they don't see it as risky to move the date of the next iPhone back.

mr.steevo
May 30, 2011, 03:48 PM
I'd love an iPhone but I can't stand the poor customer service of mobile telecommunication companies.

I have never owned a cell phone due to the providers, and based on the negative experience my wife has been recently having with Virgin I can't see me ever getting a cell phone/iPhone.

They sure look purdy though.

in one ear
May 30, 2011, 03:49 PM
I think you people are misunderstanding the whole 'e-sim' thing. It is not like a CDMA phone where you would be locked to the carrier. If an e-sim was in the i-Phone, it would give the user options to change options on the e-sim. So if you were to buy an unlocked phone,

you could set the phone to use AT&T when in the USA, then when you visit Canada you could switch to Bell, and when you go backpacking in Europe you can switch to O2, etc. All this without have to worry about taking out and putting in a new sim card.

Its similar to the dual sim phones they have in some countries, you can pick which 'sim' you want to use and when.

-Rio

only the eSIM's you use have to be approved by apple no ?

Adidas Addict
May 30, 2011, 03:50 PM
I'd love an iPhone but I can't stand the poor customer service of mobile telecommunication companies.

I have never owned a cell phone due to the providers, and based on the negative experience my wife has been recently having with Virgin I can't see me ever getting a cell phone/iPhone.

They sure look purdy though.

Hey mr.steevo, the 80's are calling, they want their pager back :D

Jimmy James
May 30, 2011, 03:53 PM
Naming scheme fail? There will be no iPhone 5 if there is an iPhone 4S.

iPhone = 1st
iPhone 3G = 2nd
iPhone 3GS = 3rd
iPhone 4 = 4th (Notice how this isn't the iPhone 3)
iPhone 5/4S = 5th
iPhone 6/4G = 6th

Agreed. I believe the 3GS was only so named so that they could get on track with a sequential naming scheme (i.e. iPhone 4/5/6, etc). They could have simply called it the iPhone 3, but that would have given the uneducated the impression it was a downgrade.

I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

Agreed, the 3GS was a major upgrade. Possibly the biggest in terms of functionality. However, that doesn't diminish the significance of the 4.

And those who are saying the 3G to 3GS transition wasn't impressive at all ... maybe not when it was running on 3.x but on 4.x, you'll wish you had a 3GS.

Exactly!

Certinfy
May 30, 2011, 03:53 PM
Its only just come out this month?

Yeah, but if the next iPhone really does come out in September it'll be like a 4-5 month wait and then eventually getting the SGS2.

Kentochan
May 30, 2011, 03:58 PM
Coming from an iPhone 3G, I'd be more than glad to get the 4S, even if the upgrades are only internal. As long as the camera is better and comes with the A5, I'm satisfied.

LoganT
May 30, 2011, 04:01 PM
Cool. I'll buy the iPhone 4S and the iPhone after that in 2012.

baryon
May 30, 2011, 04:01 PM
Why are SIMs so freaking important? They're at least 20-year-old technology! Today you could just log in with a username and a password for a virtual account at your carrier. That way you could even use multiple accounts instead of swapping SIMs. I hate SIMs they're annoying, a major pain to swap and cause my phone to forget the date, the time, the time zone and the daylight saving time. That happens about 10 times a year as I travel a lot. So much for relying on your phone to tell the time!

paradox00
May 30, 2011, 04:01 PM
Zero? No. If it's an internal spec bump without a case redesign, just like the iPhone 3GS, then it would make sense. It's also just as likely it'll be called the iPhone 5, or that they'll finally dropping version monikers and just call it the iPhone. Apple can name it whatever they want.


The iPhone 3G was the first iPhone with 3G. The iPhone 3GS was a faster version of the iPhone 3G (and incidentally the 3rd generation iPhone).

The iPhone 4 is the 4th generation iPhone. An iPhone 4S would be a faster version of the 4th generation iPhone, making it a 5th generation phone.

Why would Apple choose to call their 5th generation phone the 4S instead of the 5? Why would Apple choose to name their 6th generation phone the iPhone 5?

When you look at what the '3G' and '4' stand for, it becomes obvious why they'd add an 'S' behind one of those monikers and not the other. '3G' represents a feature, while '4' represents the generation of the the phone. Adding an 'S' to the generation number doesn't make much sense. You're right, they could do it because Apple can call their phones whatever they want, but that's not a reason for why they'd call it the '4S'. Apple could also call it the 'skhgf' but clearly that's not going to happen. I wouldn't mind them dropping the numbering scheme altogether though.

mrkramer
May 30, 2011, 04:02 PM
No one is removing the SIM, it's just becoming software. When you go abroad you can download a new one.

It's very good that you're all suspicious, but don't ditch it until the details are out. The technology itself is very promising.

And how will I download my SIM when I'm in a country without any official iPhone carriers like I am now? If apple did get rid of the SIM I'd either have to stick with an old iPhone go back to a non smartphone or just switch to android. Either way Apple wouldn't be getting more money from me.

DennisVR
May 30, 2011, 04:04 PM
I've skipped the 3GS and i will skip the 4GS. These productcycles are going too fast for me :)

Rodimus Prime
May 30, 2011, 04:06 PM
No one is removing the SIM, it's just becoming software. When you go abroad you can download a new one.

It's very good that you're all suspicious, but don't ditch it until the details are out. The technology itself is very promising.

yeah that is still removing the sim. Point of the sim is you can pop it out and quickly move it to another phone. No having to go threw a system to switch it over.

You going to be doing a high risk activity why would you want to take a 500-600 buck phone with you when instead you can put your sim in an Old phone that you do not care if it gets damage.

Juan007
May 30, 2011, 04:07 PM
There is often some truth to these rumors, but the signal is degraded by noise. For example, E-sim. You have a rumor posted that the new iPhone won't use sim cards!! Is that true? NO WAY!!

What's far more likely is that the iPhone has the ability to store "virtual sim cards". Ex. insert your sim, take a virtual snapshot of it, then remove the sim card. Then insert your other sim card that you use in Europe, take a snapshot, remove it. Now when you want to change sim cards when you land in Europe, just run iSimManager and switch to your Europe sim! When you come back, run it again to switch to USA sim! No need to carry sim cards with you.

This would be an AWESOME feature that would bury the competition.

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 04:08 PM
Why are SIMs so freaking important? They're at least 20-year-old technology! Today you could just log in with a username and a password for a virtual account at your carrier. That way you could even use multiple accounts instead of swapping SIMs. I hate SIMs they're annoying, a major pain to swap and cause my phone to forget the date, the time, the time zone and the daylight saving time. That happens about 10 times a year as I travel a lot. So much for relying on your phone to tell the time!

Exactly.

If this was some other company, people had been cheering up already.

Just because Apple is doing it; there must be something wrong it. They are closed and what not...

There is one big downside. If for eg, my iPhone crashes and I need to use another phone with the same sim, I cannot. This is NOT good. There must be a way for this and Apple should think about it.

QuarterSwede
May 30, 2011, 04:09 PM
There is often some truth to these rumors, but the signal is degraded by noise. For example, E-sim. You have a rumor posted that the new iPhone won't use sim cards!! Is that true? NO WAY!!

What's far more likely is that the iPhone has the ability to store "virtual sim cards". Ex. insert your sim, take a virtual snapshot of it, then remove the sim card. Then insert your other sim card that you use in Europe, take a snapshot, remove it. Now when you want to change sim cards when you land in Europe, just run iSimManager and switch to your Europe sim! When you come back, run it again to switch to USA sim! No need to carry sim cards with you.

This would be an AWESOME feature that would bury the competition.
That's brilliant and would work with the existing SIM system. Screw dual SIM cards, why not one for each network!?

BLACKFRIDAY
May 30, 2011, 04:09 PM
There is often some truth to these rumors, but the signal is degraded by noise. For example, E-sim. You have a rumor posted that the new iPhone won't use sim cards!! Is that true? NO WAY!!

What's far more likely is that the iPhone has the ability to store "virtual sim cards". Ex. insert your sim, take a virtual snapshot of it, then remove the sim card. Then insert your other sim card that you use in Europe, take a snapshot, remove it. Now when you want to change sim cards when you land in Europe, just run iSimManager and switch to your Europe sim! When you come back, run it again to switch to USA sim! No need to carry sim cards with you.

This would be an AWESOME feature that would bury the competition.

That is f*c*k*n* awesome.

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 04:19 PM
And how will I download my SIM when I'm in a country without any official iPhone carriers like I am now? If apple did get rid of the SIM I'd either have to stick with an old iPhone go back to a non smartphone or just switch to android. Either way Apple wouldn't be getting more money from me.

Apple will ship a small SIM adaptor with their new iPhone which you will connect to device, insert your SIM in it and it will transfer all data to the phone and activate it. From that point you won't need your SIM nor the SIM adaptor. When you put the SIM into a different device it will automatically deactivate the virtual SIM copy in your other phone. If you often switch between two SIM cards you will have to carry this special SIM adpator with you.

Ashin
May 30, 2011, 04:19 PM
There is often some truth to these rumors, but the signal is degraded by noise. For example, E-sim. You have a rumor posted that the new iPhone won't use sim cards!! Is that true? NO WAY!!

What's far more likely is that the iPhone has the ability to store "virtual sim cards". Ex. insert your sim, take a virtual snapshot of it, then remove the sim card. Then insert your other sim card that you use in Europe, take a snapshot, remove it. Now when you want to change sim cards when you land in Europe, just run iSimManager and switch to your Europe sim! When you come back, run it again to switch to USA sim! No need to carry sim cards with you.

This would be an AWESOME feature that would bury the competition.

Wow, the entire reason for no sim went right over your head didn't it?

Apple want rid of physical sims to save space inside the phone, what's the point in still having the slot without a sim in it because you took a "snapshot" of it?

:rolleyes:

ratzzo
May 30, 2011, 04:20 PM
There is often some truth to these rumors, but the signal is degraded by noise. For example, E-sim. You have a rumor posted that the new iPhone won't use sim cards!! Is that true? NO WAY!!

What's far more likely is that the iPhone has the ability to store "virtual sim cards". Ex. insert your sim, take a virtual snapshot of it, then remove the sim card. Then insert your other sim card that you use in Europe, take a snapshot, remove it. Now when you want to change sim cards when you land in Europe, just run iSimManager and switch to your Europe sim! When you come back, run it again to switch to USA sim! No need to carry sim cards with you.

This would be an AWESOME feature that would bury the competition.

Erm... the whole idea is regarding removing the space that the SIM would take up. If you could insert the SIM to take a snapshot of it in the first place, that space would not have been removed. :confused:

Mattsasa
May 30, 2011, 04:21 PM
At this point everyone is expecting a iPhone 4s/5 this September, with an A5, improved GPU, improved cameras, same design.

I don't buy it.

Apple gets most of their revenue from iPhone handsets correct? And Apple loves their iPhone. At a time like this when android is taking over, and the phone is delayed for various reasons. I strongly believe that the 5th gen iPhone will be a major revamp, something unexpected. Apple won't tKe the easy way out and wait until 2012.

Lara F
May 30, 2011, 04:21 PM
And those who are saying the 3G to 3GS transition wasn't impressive at all ... maybe not when it was running on 3.x but on 4.x, you'll wish you had a 3GS.

When my 3G was stolen July 2009 I was forced to upgrade to the 3GS. At first I was upset, then it was jailbroken and I enjoyed mostly flawless Backgrounder for a year before iOS4 finally came out. I had it on my 3G and it sucked in comparison. Stock, maybe not so huge a difference on iOS3 (probably similar to the iPad 2 today). But you'd better believe my user experience increased exponentially when I upgraded for that reason alone.

And the fact is, it still works well today at nearly the 2 year mark and could probably last one more. That's not bad at all.

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 04:23 PM
When you look at what the '3G' and '4' stand for, it becomes obvious why they'd add an 'S' behind one of those monikers and not the other. '3G' represents a feature, while '4' represents the generation of the the phone. Adding an 'S' to the generation number doesn't make much sense.

I gave a perfectly acceptable reason why Apple could choose to call it the 4S. There's nothing set in stone saying that the number has to refer to the generation--if it's a smaller spec bump in an identical case, why not? The 4S name would indicate that: added speed, same design. The iPhone 5, plain "iPhone," and "iPhone <new feature>" are also possible. We'll just have to wait and see.


I strongly believe that the 5th gen iPhone will be a major revamp, something unexpected. Apple won't tKe the easy way out and wait until 2012.

I think you will see the major revamp in the software side this time around.

heyyoudvd
May 30, 2011, 04:25 PM
Wait, this next iPhone may not even be dual core?

What on earth does this phone even have?

No LTE
No dual core
No NFC
the same form factor
is the screen any bigger?

If this is what Apple releases after 15 months of waiting, Apple is going to get killed by the Samsung Galaxy S2 and by other smartphones. The rate of technological improvement in the smartphone market is continually accelerating and if this is nothing more than a 3G-->3GS type upgrade, Apple is going to be left behind.

ChrisSD
May 30, 2011, 04:26 PM
With every new rumor article it's looking more likely that I can skip this next generation of iPhone and be fine, just as I did with the iPhone 3 and skipping the 3GS.

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 04:26 PM
I gave a perfectly acceptable reason why Apple could choose to call it the 4S. There's nothing set in stone saying that the number has to refer to the generation--if it's a smaller spec bump in an identical case, why not? The 4S name would indicate that: added speed, same design. The iPhone 5, plain "iPhone," and "iPhone <new feature>" are also possible. We'll just have to wait and see.


I strongly believe that the 5th gen iPhone will be a major revamp, something unexpected. Apple won't tKe the easy way out and wait until 2012.

I think you will see the major revamp in the software side this time around.

I like plain "iPhone" thought! :cool:

daneoni
May 30, 2011, 04:27 PM
Wow, the entire reason for no sim went right over your head didn't it?

Apple want rid of physical sims to save space inside the phone, what's the point in still having the slot without a sim in it because you took a "snapshot" of it?

:rolleyes:

Erm... the whole idea is regarding removing the space that the SIM would take up. If you could insert the SIM to take a snapshot of it in the first place, that space would not have been removed. :confused:

Are you two forgetting the ever versatile Dock connector. All they need to do is make a SIM reader adapter. Done.
http://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2010/03/apple_ipad_camera_connection_kit_1.jpg

propynyl
May 30, 2011, 04:27 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

These iPhone rumors are getting so tedious.

QuarterSwede
May 30, 2011, 04:28 PM
Wait, this next iPhone may not even be dual core?

What on earth does this phone even have?

No LTE
No dual core
No NFC
the same form factor
is the screen any bigger?

If this is what Apple releases after 15 months of waiting, Apple is going to get killed by the Samsung Galaxy S2 and by other smartphones. The rate of technological improvement in the smartphone market is continually accelerating and if this is nothing more than a 3G-->3GS type upgrade, Apple is going to be left behind.
It's almost certainly going to have the A5 (dual core) that the iPad 2 has. The LTE chips right now are battery hogs and Apple has already stated they aren't interested until the chips are more power efficient (this is the same reason they gave when waiting for the 3G).

Prother
May 30, 2011, 04:29 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

Aside from the simless part this is basically restating the same speculation we've had in the last several months: 8mp camera, a5, dual antenna, same form factor. I won't believe anything unti it's announced next month.

4th generation: iPhone 4
5th generation: iPhone 4S
6th generation: iPhone 5
^Where the hell is the logic in this? Silly people. :)

They will only reuse a number to either fit the generation name or to fit the network name. Would they name the next iPad "iPad 2s?"

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 04:30 PM
Are you two forgetting the ever versatile Dock connector. All they need to do is make an adapter. Done.

Exactly! Nobody is reading my posts :(

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 04:31 PM
It's almost certainly going to have the A5 (dual core) that the iPad 2 has.

Are you sure they will be able to fit it in there? The version in the iPad is twice as large as the A4.

heyyoudvd
May 30, 2011, 04:32 PM
It's almost certainly going to have the A5 (dual core) that the iPad 2 has.
The article states that it'll be an A5 but that it might be a single core version of the A5.

FatMax
May 30, 2011, 04:32 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; nb-no) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Dont you have Twin Sim in the US? I really dont see the problem with eSIM as long as Twin Sim works with it. I have the same subscription on my iPhone 4 and iPad. Same bill, same data rates. I can even add a 3 SIM if I want to, for example for a cheap ass "not too afraid about" phone. It's genius.

Jimmy James
May 30, 2011, 04:35 PM
Why are SIMs so freaking important?

Because they're swappable. Any time I'm doing outdoor adventure sports or other activities where my newer, nicer phone is likely to get damaged I put my sim into an old phone.

QuarterSwede
May 30, 2011, 04:38 PM
Are you sure they will be able to fit it in there? The version in the iPad is twice as large as the A4.
They shrunk the iPad's A4 down to fit into the iP4. I can't see why they wouldn't do the same thing here.

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 04:39 PM
They shrunk the iPad's A4 down to fit into the iP4. I can't see why they wouldn't do the same thing here.

They can use Intel's 20nm technology. Job done. :)

antster94
May 30, 2011, 04:41 PM
I doubt it will only be a minor update for the 4S. In the past, there hasn't really been much competition. Only when the iPhone 4 came handsets were appearing that had competitive features and functionality. Now look, handsets like the Galaxy S2 and HTC Sensation, with the right advertising and publicity, have the potential to take a large chunk of iPhone sales.

In my opinion, Apple has to step up their game and bring the innovation and technology that they have the potential to bring to the table. I'm talking 8MP camera, 4" screen, A5, maybe even LTE and NFC. I just can't see the public being so excited about a speed bump.

SaltyPiratePony
May 30, 2011, 04:42 PM
So, once again, you'll own a phone that can't utilize it's own speed. A feature that can't be used is effectively worthless to the consumer.
Not unless you pull out your Objective-C skills and forget about legacy users. Time to program your own Oracle/IBM/... DBMS for iPhone equivalent. :D

No really, no one forces you to support legacy hardware. Why not utilize the power, just because you can? Leaders gonna lead ;)

lPHONE
May 30, 2011, 04:45 PM
I was just in LA and you know, people like to talk (kinda like I'm doing now) but I met this guy who was all gung hoe over the iPhone 6. He was like "I'm selling my stock, because i5 is gonna bomb... my contacts at Apple promised there would be front and back displays on iP6."

If that's true, I don't want iPhone 5 either... Dude, I could take over the world with a phone with 2 screens. :rolleyes:

teejaysplace24
May 30, 2011, 05:04 PM
Echo, have you ever purchased an Apple product?

1.) Apple does not ever "hint" about anything.

2.) Apple does not care how people feel about their naming conventions. No one liked "MacBook" either.

3.) WWDC has only been about the iPhone since 2007. That is hardly forever.

4.) The entire Apple community does nothing BUT stand around assuming that the next upgrade will be bigger, better, faster. If a new iPhone is not released at WWDC, it'll be par for the course with the rest of Apple's road map, which is seemingly rewritten as the company sees fit.

This is Apple man. If you want someone to forecast the future with any reasonable accuracy, ask the weather man.


Why is it that any "Anonymous rumor" is taken seriously these days? We have more than enough evidence to support that this is absolute BS...

The iPhone WILL NOT, (i repeat) WILL NOT get rid of the Sim card. That is absolutely suicide for Apple right now. None of the major wireless companies support it, and the advantages are very slim right now. What is more likely, is that apple will introduce the micro-sim, like we were told about months ago. There is simply no real evidence in the contrary.

Next, These iPhone 4S rumors also need to go. There is no way in hell that apple is going to call their next gen phone the "4S", there are plenty of people that would be confused and it makes no sense to lock themselves out of a logical "iPhone 5" title. As it was said like 100 times already, the 3G and 3GS were named that way because it was the '3G' network that they were emphasizing.

TBH, I don't really believe any of these rumors right now- Apple has stated again and again that supplies have not been affected, so don't you think they would have at least hinted if they were going to make a drastic change to their very strict release schedule ? Also, believe it or not, most people will not just buy the white iPhone 4 just because there is no proper upgrade. Pushing the schedule back risks that many 3G and 3GS users will go to another phone.

Why is this risky you ask? Well according to the rumors there will be no mention of a new iphone a WWDC (in about a week), When WWDC comes and goes the vast majority of people are not gonna be like "Oh that's ok I'm sure apple is gonna release it in September, although i have no word from them, I'll just wait on good faith in hopes that the phone doesn't suck..."- NO, IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. WWDC has always been centered around the iPhone reveal. Even if they push back the release, I cannot see them ignoring one of their main selling points.

HangmanSwingset
May 30, 2011, 05:05 PM
My reasoning why they won't call it the iPhone 4S:

Just think of it... why would they? Because back in the day when the update from 3G to 3GS they just slapped an S at the end of it? The S back then meant speed, as in 3G Speed, because it is much faster than the 3G. Why would it be called 'iPhone 4Speed'?
Secondly, if there is a September release, they're not going to want to call it something so similar to the previous generation. Apple wants it to have an impact from the name itself. Most people that buy iPhones don't troll the specs on sites like this, so '4S' isn't going to sound 'new enough' for those people that were waiting to upgrade from their 4's. 5 is a bigger number. It appeals to people, especially after more than a year of the number 4 flying around. 4 sounded amazing after 2 years of '3' flying around. That's how you get people to pay full-price for an upgrade. Give the public a bigger number. I'm sure a good portion of them will bite.

Full of Win
May 30, 2011, 05:10 PM
I doubt it will only be a minor update for the 4S. In the past, there hasn't really been much competition. Only when the iPhone 4 came handsets were appearing that had competitive features and functionality. Now look, handsets like the Galaxy S2 and HTC Sensation, with the right advertising and publicity, have the potential to take a large chunk of iPhone sales.

In my opinion, Apple has to step up their game and bring the innovation and technology that they have the potential to bring to the table. I'm talking 8MP camera, 4" screen, A5, maybe even LTE and NFC. I just can't see the public being so excited about a speed bump.
I think Apple has realized that the gig is up in the mobile space, and while they are doing very well now, their position is in a state of decline. Eventually, Apple will settle into a minor "boutique" role in the market, much like OS X has in the world of OSes. Given that, Apple may not see the need to compete head on, since the fight was lost a while ago. Rather, they will release updates per their own timetable.

bobob
May 30, 2011, 05:14 PM
I like the current upgrade plan Apple has; it's fitting well with my contract. Each time my contract is up, there's a big revision to the iPhone line, while in the middle of my contract there have been "speed bumps." Keep it up, Apple! :D

I'm on the opposite upgrade cycle, and I'm also happy with it. I get mature hardware with all the bugs worked out, yet with higher speed processors, and a slew of accessories ready to go for a reasonable price.

t0mbola
May 30, 2011, 05:14 PM
You people forget that the latest iPhone version is always consistent with the latest iOS major release version (or vice versa).

So I believe that iOS 5 = iPhone 5.

vvswarup
May 30, 2011, 05:16 PM
I think Apple has realized that the gig is up in the mobile space, and while they are doing very well now, their position is in a state of decline. Eventually, Apple will settle into a minor "boutique" role in the market, much like OS X has in the world of OSes. Given that, Apple may not see the need to compete head on, since the fight was lost a while ago. Rather, they will release updates per their own timetable.

If you call more than 50% profit share a "state of decline," I'm sure that Apple will happily live with it.

wordoflife
May 30, 2011, 05:16 PM
I'm on the opposite upgrade cycle, and I'm also happy with it. I get mature hardware with all the bugs worked out, yet with higher speed processors, and a slew of accessories ready to go for a reasonable price.

same here. for some reason, I really like the "odd" upgrade cycle.

Michael Scrip
May 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
Apple gets most of their revenue from iPhone handsets correct? And Apple loves their iPhone. At a time like this when android is taking over, and the phone is delayed for various reasons. I strongly believe that the 5th gen iPhone will be a major revamp, something unexpected. Apple won't tKe the easy way out and wait until 2012.

Last quarter... January to March 2011... Apple sold over 200,000 iPhones every day... and that was the iPhone 4 that launched 6-8 months earlier (and the 3GS which is even older)

Apple has no problem selling iPhones...

People will soon buy the refreshed iPhone 4S... just like they buy the iPhone 4 today. Apple doesn't need to completely revamp the iPhone every year. And if the current iPhone 4 becomes the $99 phone... that's a hell of a bargain.

Android? Sure, there are more Android phones sold than iPhones. You'll have that when there are 50+ Android phones out there.

Apple? They sold 18.65 million iPhones last quarter (90 days)... and made the bulk of the profit of the entire industry. Other companies would KILL for numbers like that.

.

Sardonick007
May 30, 2011, 05:18 PM
SIM=Carrier control and it's not going anywhere until that is resolved.

OllyW
May 30, 2011, 05:19 PM
You people forget that the latest iPhone version is always consistent with the latest iOS major release version (or vice versa).

So I believe that iOS 5 = iPhone 5.

What about iPhone OS 2 = iPhone 3G?

JS77
May 30, 2011, 05:24 PM
I think Apple has realized that the gig is up in the mobile space, and while they are doing very well now, their position is in a state of decline. Eventually, Apple will settle into a minor "boutique" role in the market, much like OS X has in the world of OSes. Given that, Apple may not see the need to compete head on, since the fight was lost a while ago. Rather, they will release updates per their own timetable.

What planet do you live on...? No, seriously...

EricNau
May 30, 2011, 05:24 PM
I see a lot of people worrying that an iPhone without a physical, swappable sim card would be handicapped when you go abroad - they say you wouldn't be able to replace the sim with a local one.
In the interests of full disclosure, all of our iPhones are already crippled when we go abroad. Current iPhones in the US are only compatible with AT&T SIMs, and simply will not work with any other GSM carrier. AT&T does not currently offer to unlock any iPhones, even if you've fullfilled your contract.

QuarterSwede
May 30, 2011, 05:28 PM
SIM=Carrier control and it's not going anywhere until that is resolved.
No, locking the phones gives carriers control.

AT&T does not currently offer to unlock any iPhones, even if you've fullfilled your contract.
Which is pure crap in my opinion. They've already sucked the money out of you at that point. The LEAST they could do is unlock your phone.

Jimmy James
May 30, 2011, 05:35 PM
In my opinion, Apple has to step up their game and bring the innovation and technology that they have the potential to bring to the table. I'm talking 8MP camera...

Yeah, you're talking 8 MP. I'd prefer to keep the better 5 MP camera.

OllyW
May 30, 2011, 05:40 PM
In the interests of full disclosure, all of our iPhones are already crippled when we go abroad. Current iPhones in the US are only compatible with AT&T SIMs, and simply will not work with any other GSM carrier. AT&T does not currently offer to unlock any iPhones, even if you've fullfilled your contract.

Is the sim-free iPhone going to be US only?

Padraig
May 30, 2011, 05:43 PM
SIM=Carrier control and it's not going anywhere until that is resolved.

How is allowing me to put any network's sim into my phone "carrier control"?

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 05:50 PM
How is allowing me to put any network's sim into my phone "carrier control"?

Think about the steps (and time) it takes to get a network SIM card today.

Now think about an app that where you click a few buttons and essentially do the same.

Can you see why the carriers don't like it?

NT1440
May 30, 2011, 05:53 PM
If you call more than 50% profit share a "state of decline," I'm sure that Apple will happily live with it.
Exactly.

I find it hilarious that people think that Apple cares about market share in mobile (apart from when it can make them look good at a keynote). I'm sure that they laugh hysterically when market share stories come up on Gizmodo, while looking at the 50%+ profit of the entire mobile market that is theirs. I would be too.

JanS.
May 30, 2011, 06:02 PM
Dear Apple,

I am sure you are reading this forum very carefully. So read title above, think, read again, think again. There is some wisdom in there. Think different.

Lesser Evets
May 30, 2011, 06:04 PM
Ultimately, it's a phone, and it has a certain size limitation. The freaky-fuss about the next models is starting to make me wonder what people think they are going to get with #5. Sure, better cameras and bigger memory, etc. But the real function of the camera/phone/player/web browser, etc--not going to be earth-shatteringly über-amazing compared to what there is now.

Thunderhawks
May 30, 2011, 06:07 PM
I've skipped the 3GS and i will skip the 4GS. These productcycles are going too fast for me :)

What about iSmoke Signals?

Unlimited data plan.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 06:10 PM
I find it hilarious that people think that Apple cares about market share in mobile (apart from when it can make them look good at a keynote).

Not only that, the Android market share has apparently stopped growing:

http://www.9to5mac.com/69745/android-share-stops-growing-nielsen/

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 06:10 PM
From a hardware standpoint, 3GS to 4 was a far bigger upgrade than 3G to 3GS. Retina Display? Vastly superior camera with flash?

Retina display ? Makes for slower 3D graphics.

The iPhone 4 is the same basic internals as the 3GS, a Cortex A8 CPU with a SGX535 GPU. There was no upgrade.

3G to 3GS, now that was an upgrade.

As for the iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 with A5 processor suffering the same fate, I think it won't be the case, thanks to iPad 2 changing the rules. More devs will more quickly take advantage of the enhanced GPU and multiple cores. If anything, the iPhone 4 will get dated a lot faster than the 3GS will be.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 06:15 PM
Dear Apple,
I am sure you are reading this forum very carefully. So read title above, think, read again, think again. There is some wisdom in there. Think different.

That's it exactly, it's a user interface so why keep it contained in silly bits of plastic that we have seek like primitive hunter-gatherers.

It's high time it moved to software, and user interfaces is one of the things Apple does best.

DeathChill
May 30, 2011, 06:23 PM
Retina display ? Makes for slower 3D graphics.

The iPhone 4 is the same basic internals as the 3GS, a Cortex A8 CPU with a SGX535 GPU. There was no upgrade.

3G to 3GS, now that was an upgrade.

As for the iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 with A5 processor suffering the same fate, I think it won't be the case, thanks to iPad 2 changing the rules. More devs will more quickly take advantage of the enhanced GPU and multiple cores. If anything, the iPhone 4 will get dated a lot faster than the 3GS will be.

In the context of gaming, I 110% agree; regular apps probably won't see much change.

daneoni
May 30, 2011, 06:27 PM
Retina display ? Makes for slower 3D graphics.

The iPhone 4 is the same basic internals as the 3GS, a Cortex A8 CPU with a SGX535 GPU. There was no upgrade.

3G to 3GS, now that was an upgrade.

As for the iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 with A5 processor suffering the same fate, I think it won't be the case, thanks to iPad 2 changing the rules. More devs will more quickly take advantage of the enhanced GPU and multiple cores. If anything, the iPhone 4 will get dated a lot faster than the 3GS will be.

You cant seriously say that. The 3GS brought A8/535, double memory and VGA video capture. The End.

iP4 brought Retina Display...even if the GPU is now pushing more pixels it is still a better screen/experience overall, improved rear cam, flash, 720p video capture, front cam, 802.11n, double RAM, higher clocked CPU, gyroscope, design overhaul, improved mic/speakers, noise canceling.

Yes the iPhone 4 is based on Cortex A8 but it doesn't mean the A4 isn't still a different processor to that in the 3GS. One was an 800MHz chip underclocked to 600MHz, the other a more power efficient 1GHz chip underclocked to 800MHz.

iBug2
May 30, 2011, 06:27 PM
Retina display ? Makes for slower 3D graphics.

The iPhone 4 is the same basic internals as the 3GS, a Cortex A8 CPU with a SGX535 GPU. There was no upgrade.

3G to 3GS, now that was an upgrade.

As for the iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 with A5 processor suffering the same fate, I think it won't be the case, thanks to iPad 2 changing the rules. More devs will more quickly take advantage of the enhanced GPU and multiple cores. If anything, the iPhone 4 will get dated a lot faster than the 3GS will be.

The CPU was a 600 mhz to 900 mhz upgrade, which is 50% faster. I'd say it's an upgrade.

Also Retina Display probably was the biggest upgrade and the selling point of iPhone 4. A high res display is a big convenience to read text, browse web, etc. The only reason I wish I had an iPhone 4 was the display.

bushido
May 30, 2011, 06:27 PM
Retina display ? Makes for slower 3D graphics.

The iPhone 4 is the same basic internals as the 3GS, a Cortex A8 CPU with a SGX535 GPU. There was no upgrade.

3G to 3GS, now that was an upgrade.

As for the iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 with A5 processor suffering the same fate, I think it won't be the case, thanks to iPad 2 changing the rules. More devs will more quickly take advantage of the enhanced GPU and multiple cores. If anything, the iPhone 4 will get dated a lot faster than the 3GS will be.

who rly cares about THAT, redesign is all i care about and the retina display. thats why i never wanted the 3GS cuz i already had the 3G

falconeight
May 30, 2011, 06:32 PM
Does it really matter? Apple could release the same phone in pink and there will be lines around the corner.

kiljoy616
May 30, 2011, 06:36 PM
A9 dual core you have a buyer Apple. Single faster core, don't care no sale.

Also drop a 1gig memory for all those apps I keep leaving open. ;)

But what I really want is a better design UI and more response on apps already there.

Cod3rror
May 30, 2011, 06:39 PM
The CPU was a 600 mhz to 900 mhz upgrade, which is 50% faster. I'd say it's an upgrade.

Also Retina Display probably was the biggest upgrade and the selling point of iPhone 4. A high res display is a big convenience to read text, browse web, etc. The only reason I wish I had an iPhone 4 was the display.

Wouldn't that be 30% faster?

And it's 800MHz, not 900.

ABernardoJr
May 30, 2011, 06:43 PM
I think 50% would theoretically be right, 600+300 = 900. But of course this is if we're talking about 900 MHz still

orisonmarden
May 30, 2011, 06:45 PM
iPhone 4S and iPhone 5? This is just plain ridiculous. :o

puckhead193
May 30, 2011, 06:46 PM
makes sense...and more importantly, an update where i won't be too jealous. I'll be first in line for the "5th generation"

ThisIsNotMe
May 30, 2011, 06:47 PM
A9 dual core you have a buyer Apple. Single faster core, don't care no sale.

Also drop a 1gig memory for all those apps I keep leaving open. ;)

But what I really want is a better design UI and more response on apps already there.

Let me ask, why?

What do you care if the apps run the same?

(that is unless you are a spec whore and use specs to compare penis size)

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 06:51 PM
Let me ask, why?

What do you care if the apps run the same?

(that is unless you are a spec whore and use specs to compare penis size)

Judging by his last comment, I think he was being sarcastic. (Hence the ;) and the fact that iOS doesn't leave most apps open.)

iBug2
May 30, 2011, 06:55 PM
Wouldn't that be 30% faster?

And it's 800MHz, not 900.

600 to 900 is 300 increase, which is 50% of 600.

If it's 800 mhz then it's 200 mhz increase, which is 33% of 600, so it's still quite a good upgrade.

AidenShaw
May 30, 2011, 06:57 PM
I gave a perfectly acceptable reason why Apple could choose to call it the 4S. There's nothing set in stone saying that the number has to refer to the generation

True that - since the 2nd generation Iphone was called the Iphone 3G. :eek:

jmmo20
May 30, 2011, 06:57 PM
It truly amazes me how no one here seems to have a clue regarding the way SIMs work and function. I'm not here to lecture anyone, I just invite users to read about the SIM standard. I would just like to make a few points clear.

1) Apple cannot simply make a SIM card adapter and "make a copy" for the sim into a virtual sim. It's impossible to read the encryption keys.

2) SIM cards contain a few important codes, some of each are easily readable, while others are NEVER revealed to the phone itself nor the network. Basically the carrier gives the phone a code and asks for the phone to REQUEST the sim card to sign it. The SIM card itself (it's a microchip) signs the code, returns it to the phone, which in turn delivers it to the carrier, which then replies with the temporary encryption key for the data/voice session.

3) Having e-Sims make it specially dangerous to run jailbroken iphones. A jailbroken app could hijack your "e-sim" information and clone it.

4) the idea of an esim is NOT what Apple requested to the standards authorities a couple of weeks ago. What they asked for was for a standard on a SMALLER PHYSICAL sim card. That is, smaller than current micro-sims. Even current microsims have a lot of wasted real estate. The chip itself is about 2 sq milimeters. It's the contacts and the plastic around them that makes them bigger.


So, no, no "e-sims" anytime soon. And no, no "sim copying" anytime soon, either.

so people, please do inform yourselves on what SIMs actually do.

miles01110
May 30, 2011, 07:03 PM
It truly amazes me how no one here seems to have a clue regarding the way SIMs work and function.

Does it really amaze you that much? You must be new here. News items are generally reserved for trolls and people who go on to post in the Buying Advice section; "Since the new iPhone will have no SIM does that mean I can unlock for free on AT&T???????"

2IS
May 30, 2011, 07:04 PM
Retina display ? Makes for slower 3D graphics.



It's a phone, not a 3DS or PSP. The ip4 display has so many advantages over the 3GS that your argument is really starting to sound ridiculous. The 3 and 3GS share FAR more hardware then the IP4. The IP4 shares a CPU/GPU with the 3GS and even then, higher clocked versions. Everything else is different. You're wrong, get over it already.

QuarterSwede
May 30, 2011, 07:06 PM
It truly amazes me how no one here seems to have a clue regarding the way SIMs work and function. I'm not here to lecture anyone, I just invite users to read about the SIM standard. I would just like to make a few points clear.

1) [snipped for length]

...

So, no, no "e-sims" anytime soon. And no, no "sim copying" anytime soon, either.

so people, please do inform yourselves on what SIMs actually do.
Welp, I learned something today.

It's a phone, not a 3DS or PSP. The ip4 display has so many advantages over the 3GS that your argument is really starting to sound ridiculous. The 3 and 3GS share FAR more hardware then the IP4. The IP4 shares a CPU/GPU with the 3GS and even then, higher clocked versions. Everything else is different. You're wrong, get over it already.
The funny thing to me is that in the computer world a 33% increase in cpu power is GREAT.

moosez3
May 30, 2011, 07:11 PM
Sticking with my 3Gs until we see an iPhone on a fast real 4G (LTE) network. Why bother upgrading if it's gonna be the same crappy network. You'll be stuck for two more years.

Exactly I really wanted the VeriPhone, but I hesitantly (because no dual-core) got the thunderbolt, but because LTE is everything they have been raving about and more I dont regret my decision for a second.

I love my MBP, so would love to try an iPhone, but not until the internet speeds get up to par at least.
My usage:
1) Texts - all phones are good at this.
2) Internet - I use 5-10GB a month so this must be fast, reliable, unlimited
3) apps - non-factor
4) calls - non-factor

Apple is losing serious ground if they dont have Dual core and/or LTE or something comparable...

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 07:18 PM
2) Internet - I use 5-10GB a month so this must be fast, reliable, unlimited



You'd better jump on board before the LTE iPhone, because by the time that comes out Verizon's unlimited plan will be gone.

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 07:19 PM
In the context of gaming, I 110% agree; regular apps probably won't see much change.

Regular apps have not needed the processing power of the iPhone 3GS or even the iPhone 3G.

It's all about the games. That's about the only thing pushing the platform hardware wise (except for a few Apple/Adobe made apps). Gaming on iOS is one of the big features.

Michael Scrip
May 30, 2011, 07:22 PM
Apple is losing serious ground if they dont have Dual core and/or LTE or something comparable...

How is the rest of the world doing with LTE? Seems like we only talk about Verizon with regards to LTE.

Apple still sells between 150,000-200,000 iPhones every day worldwide...

caspersoong
May 30, 2011, 07:33 PM
Does this mean you cannot use the old number and need to make a new account with your service provider?

frjonah
May 30, 2011, 07:44 PM
I agree, we definitely need some big new features in the next iPhone if it's going to graduate all the way up to iPhone 5 (vs. 4S, etc)... here's what I'd like to see :):

A mute button that works on people who annoy me
An invisibility cloak via NFC
A light saber
An HD projector for watching movies up to 8 feet wide on walls
A 16 core design with 2GB of VRAM
A retina^2 design so I can use a magnifier on the screen and still see no pixels
and... well, that ought to do it for the next update

The reality is that very modest upgrades are the name of the game... speed is a no-brainer, maybe a couple of surprises, but those hoping for the "iPhone that does it all" are very likely going to be disappointed.

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 07:49 PM
Regular apps have not needed the processing power of the iPhone 3GS or even the iPhone 3G.

It's all about the games. That's about the only thing pushing the platform hardware wise (except for a few Apple/Adobe made apps). Gaming on iOS is one of the big features.

I can clearly see how even the web browser is much faster on the iPad's 2 A5 processor, plus a range of other apps, compared to my iP4.

Sure processing power is the lifeblood of games, but helps a lot on other apps as well.

vpr
May 30, 2011, 07:50 PM
I see a lot of people worrying that an iPhone without a physical, swappable sim card would be handicapped when you go abroad - they say you wouldn't be able to replace the sim with a local one. I don't so.

A sim card is merely a memory chip which carries certain network settings and other data. It's just data. So, essentially, instead of a sim card which you put into your phone you would download virtual sims which you could 'swap' within the eSim settings. Better than physical sims because you won't need to worry about losing them and, what's more, you won't need to find a shop to buy a sim from. You're off to India? Go to the website of an indian telecoms provider and request an eSim. Want to switch your phone to a different provider? Same deal. Just go to their site and download an eSim.

The only down side is that you can't take your sim from the iPhone and use it in another handset. That said there's no reason this can't be worked around and the advantages of eSims could certainly outweigh the downside.

That all sounds great, but what are the chances that local and international telcos will have that process setup, and setup well (ie: not a beta) JUST for an iPhone? What about countries that don't have iPhones, would they have this ability? Who would this responsibility fall to, Apple or the Telco?

I see lots of problems unless other phone manufactures jump on the eSim bandwagon as well.

frankk
May 30, 2011, 08:00 PM
The only problem with the 3GS is that it was so much more capable than the 3G, that 3rd party app developers never actually wrote anything to take advantage of it. Epic were pretty much the first with the Epic Citadel demo. The phone was so much more capable than the 3G that to write software to take advantage of it would mean foregoing the entire 3G and original iPhone installed base.

That sucked being an early 3GS adopter. Knowing your phone can offer you such a superior experience, yet lacking the software to get it.

I'm on the 3G to 4 schedule. I would've been disappointed to miss out on retina view when it came out (a plus), but the 3G was pretty hampered by the latest update, crashing and severe lagging (a minus).

gkpm
May 30, 2011, 08:16 PM
Wow, so much misinformation on this thread about Software SIMs, even people claiming to have knowledge are failing miserably (you should quote references btw)

The Software eSIM is coming, no doubt whatsoever about that. Maybe not right now, but next year for sure. It's being standardised as we speak by the GSMA, the people who make standards for GSM. Here's their own recent description of how it's going:

http://www.gsmworld.com/newsroom/press-releases/2011/6040.htm

"The embedded SIM will be used in addition to existing SIMs rather than replace them, and traditional SIM-supported devices will continue to work on operator networks. The embedded SIM will also be based on already standardised SIM form factors and will remain as a 'physical entity', with the enhanced security that a physical implementation provides."

So it's a still a little bit of hardware that sits inside the phone, just means it's now possible to change the mobile operator identity and data contained within it over the air. They've made it as secure as a regular physical SIM card.

Apple may even have added both a physical SIM (that even smaller version that people talked about) in addition to this one. Who knows.

For those really interested in this tech, here's some light reading describing it's use in high detail: ftp://ftp.3gpp2.org/TSGS/Working/_2011/2011-0505-TSG-S+TSG-C_re_eUICC/Embedded%20SIM%20Use%20Cases%20and%20Reqts%20v1%200.pdf

jonnysods
May 30, 2011, 08:16 PM
Does it really matter? Apple could release the same phone in pink and there will be lines around the corner.

So true :)

kxbcvoi
May 30, 2011, 08:17 PM
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Bring on an A5 equipped iPhone 4, call it whatever you want, it'll truely be the 5th generation iPhone and be a very worthy upgrade.

I sometimes don't think you even read what you write -- why do you think the iPhone A5 will be any different than the 3GS? It'll be faster, but no one will write software to support it because they don't want to lose legacy-support for iP4 and iPad1 users.

So, once again, you'll own a phone that can't utilize it's own speed. A feature that can't be used is effectively worthless to the consumer.

You must be joking. "No one write software to support it". I think app run faster on 3GS and everything is snappier since the first day.
That phase should be for iPhone 3G (same hw as 2G) which no one write app to support it anymore.

AppleScruff1
May 30, 2011, 08:19 PM
Does it really matter? Apple could release the same phone in pink and there will be lines around the corner.

Sad but true. Sheep will buy anything.

grockk
May 30, 2011, 08:22 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I think these rumors should get their naming conventions straight.

iPhone (1st gen)
iPhone 3G (2nd gen)
iPhone 3GS (3rd gen)
iPhone 4 (4th gen)
iPhone "4S" (Makes sense if it is a speed boost...)
iPhone 5?? - Does not make sense because it is the 6th generation. Could be iPhone 4G, but I think a ton of people would be confused by that because many people call it the "iPhone 4G" already, even thought it is not.

I think the most likely case is for Apple to not go with the "4S" name and just call the next one iPhone 5.

Check the device ID in system profiler.

Original iPhone is 1,1
iPhone 3G is 1,2
iPhone 3GS is 2,1
iPhone 4 is 3,1

3G was literally exactly the same with upgraded connectivity. 3GS and 4 were both new generations. It has nothing to do with which generation. If the call the next one iPhone 4s the next would be iPhone 6 or something. Or maybe 5 since it is just marketing. I'd prefer they just call it iPhone and be done with it.

The upgrade is evident in device ID's so let's stop calling 3G major and 3GS minor when it's the exact opposite.

diamond.g
May 30, 2011, 08:28 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



Check the device ID in system profiler.

Original iPhone is 1,1
iPhone 3G is 1,2
iPhone 3GS is 2,1
iPhone 4 is 3,1

3G was literally exactly the same with upgraded connectivity. 3GS and 4 were both new generations. It has nothing to do with which generation. If the call the next one iPhone 4s the next would be iPhone 6 or something. Or maybe 5 since it is just marketing. I'd prefer they just call it iPhone and be done with it.

The upgrade is evident in device ID's so let's stop calling 3G major and 3GS minor when it's the exact opposite.

It would be nice if they dropped the number designation and just go with iPhone. I mean they don't call it Macbook Pro 7….

KnightWRX
May 30, 2011, 08:29 PM
You must be joking. "No one write software to support it". I think app run faster on 3GS and everything is snappier since the first day.

Sure it was snappier, but it's not like the 3G was completely unusable. The fact is, it took quite a while until someone said "hey, this 3GS device is pretty fast, let's write software to push it to its limits, sure it won't run on the iPhone 3G, but so what ?"

But my recount, it took close to 1 year before we reached that point (and the iPhone 4 basically being out and a lot of 3G owners upgrading to it).

The 3GS was much more than "snappier" than the 3G. It could completely destroy it in raw processing power.

EricNau
May 30, 2011, 08:29 PM
Which is pure crap in my opinion. They've already sucked the money out of you at that point. The LEAST they could do is unlock your phone.
I couldn't agree more.

Is the sim-free iPhone going to be US only?
No, I have no reason to assume so. So I do realize it is still very much a concern for virtually all non-american customers.

voyagerd
May 30, 2011, 08:39 PM
I can't wait to upgrade my iPhone 3GS to an iPhone A5!

lilo777
May 30, 2011, 08:43 PM
I can't wait to upgrade my iPhone 3GS to an iPhone A5!

Will you do it if it has single core CPU?

voyagerd
May 30, 2011, 08:46 PM
Will you do it if it has single core CPU?

I'll get a new one no matter what… my 3GS is just too slow anymore. I hate waiting for text to show up in after I type it.

diamond.g
May 30, 2011, 08:48 PM
I'll get a new one no matter what… my 3GS is just too slow anymore. I hate waiting for text to show up in after I type it.

I found that restarting my phone (when I had a 3GS) fixed that issue…

I would like dual cores because there are some websites that I visit that peg the CPU of my device. It ends up being a pain to navigate the sites when they are so slow.

voyagerd
May 30, 2011, 08:50 PM
I found that restarting my phone (when I had a 3GS) fixed that issue…

I would like dual cores because there are some websites that I visit that peg the CPU of my device. It ends up being a pain to navigate the sites when they are so slow.

Restarting makes things faster, but there is still a lot of typing lag when I'm using Beejive IM.

Dual cores would be great, but we get what we get.

mbrannon47
May 30, 2011, 08:52 PM
Apple should NOT use the naming scheme 4S & 5. Why are they going to ship their sixth iPhone and call it iPhone 5? They messed the whole thing up with 3G because it was their second phone--if they had called it iPhone 2, all would have been fine...but they wanted to make it obvious that the primary difference was 3G. Then they could have called the 3Gs iPhone 3 and iPhone 4 could be iPhone 4. Yuck.

voyagerd
May 30, 2011, 08:53 PM
Apple should NOT use the naming scheme 4S & 5. Why are they going to ship their sixth iPhone and call it iPhone 5? They messed the whole thing up with 3G because it was their second phone--if they had called it iPhone 2, all would have been fine...but they wanted to make it obvious that the primary difference was 3G. Then they could have called the 3Gs iPhone 3 and iPhone 4 could be iPhone 4. Yuck.

What about iPhone A5? Name it after the processor like the PowerMacs and PowerBooks were.

mbrannon47
May 30, 2011, 08:54 PM
What about iPhone A5? Name it after the processor like the PowerMacs and PowerBooks were.

+1. That's smarter.

bpeeps
May 30, 2011, 08:56 PM
I cant wait for the iPhone 4S or 5 to come out. It will be hilarious looking back on these posts where people are so adamant about why it HAS to be named one or the other.

AidenShaw
May 30, 2011, 09:11 PM
What about iPhone A5? Name it after the processor like the PowerMacs and PowerBooks were.

+1. That's smarter.

Or use the MacBook convention - that would make the next Iphone the

Iphone (mid 2012)

...solves everything.

AppleScruff1
May 30, 2011, 09:15 PM
Android will probably gain more market share while Apple lags with a refresh instead of a new model. It will be a year before they approach the cutting edge again.

robotmonkey
May 30, 2011, 09:18 PM
I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.

Not true.

shanmugam
May 30, 2011, 09:23 PM
just 7 more days to WWDC.

Personally i like to see iPhone comes unlocked than any other feature ...

nice to have iPhone available to all the carriers t-mobile, sprint and cricket and so on ...

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 09:27 PM
What about iPhone A5? Name it after the processor like the PowerMacs and PowerBooks were.

No, Apple wants to distance itself from internal specs. They don't even list the amount of RAM it has.


just 7 more days to WWDC.



Wow, you're right...maybe they will announce who is giving the Keynote tomorrow?

Rad99004
May 30, 2011, 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX
I was thrilled when they announced the 3GS, it was a major upgrade from the 3G. Moreso than the iPhone 4 was for the 3GS. Now that was a "meh" update. Just changing the outside look and mostly keeping the same internals.


Not true.

I also have a 3GS and skipped the Iphone 4 because it had very few new features that I wanted.

The camera upgrade to 8 Meg, the bigger screen and IOS 5 on the new iphone will give me the incentive to buy.

Just wait and see Apple will announce a new phone next month. They are just playing with us all.

Mattsasa
May 30, 2011, 09:47 PM
Android will probably gain more market share while Apple lags with a refresh instead of a new model. It will be a year before they approach the cutting edge again.

It's a shame

Macbees
May 30, 2011, 09:48 PM
I am amazed by the number of posts that are concerned with the iPhone's name... it's just a name!! They can name it whatever they want, it's no BIG deal!
Iam more concerned with what's being upgraded, the CPUs, screen.etc.

Going sim-less is an issue too.. I do not think the world's network is ready for that yet. It is unlike moving from normal sim to micro sim in the iPhone 4, whereby the sim can just be cut to micro sim size.

BTW, for those who are concerned with swapping phones around with your sim, it is not so swappable with your iPhone 4 since it runs on micro sims. Almost all phones are using convensional sim cards, micro sim adoption rate is still pretty slow..

anush3
May 30, 2011, 09:49 PM
I think I can imagine a way how this could be done very nicely.

Apple will ship a small SIM adaptor with their new iPhone which you will connect to device, insert your SIM in it and it will transfer all data to the phone and activate it. From that point you won't need your SIM nor the SIM adaptor. When you put the SIM into a different device it will automatically deactivate the virtual SIM copy in your other phone. If you often switch between two SIM cards you will have to carry this special SIM adpator with you.

Sounds okay to me... :p

that's pretty witty idea !!
What I am sure is Apple would make sure carrier switching in some easier way if they eliminate SIM, that some people here worried of.
I think SIM is pretty old concept taking physical space.

revolutionx
May 30, 2011, 09:51 PM
been holding out from IPhone 4 and still carrying 3G so that I can get IPhone 5. This just screws me up. Looks like I will be moving to android. Samsung Galaxy S2 here I come... by the way which carrier carries it?

twoodcc
May 30, 2011, 09:53 PM
i just hope the next iPhone is really good

cvaldes
May 30, 2011, 09:54 PM
Why wouldn't the 6th iPhone be called iPhone 4G if it has 4G technology?
Because by next year, marketing a "4G"-monikered device might not be advantageous, at least in certain markets.

Both AT&T and T-Mobile USA are labelling their 3.9G HSPA+ networks as "4G" and even the LTE networks aren't up to true 4G specification (which is incomplete anyhow).

4G is a sham right now.

anush3
May 30, 2011, 09:55 PM
Whats the problem with eSIM?

It's still a SIM but instead of replacing the tiny bit of plastic you download a new one and install it. A real SIM is just software anyway, just runs inside a little chip, that's all.

Being software doesn't mean you can't change it, it makes it easier!

Imagine going abroad and downloading a new SIM instead of having to find a shop, negotiate the local language, figure out which tariff to get..

In the extreme case Apple could even run multiple virtual SIM cards at the same time. Two networks without the physical space taken by two cards.

That's why the networks are running scared of this, and saying this is a bad thing.. well it is, for them.

As for the phone crapping out, well the Apple Store replaces them on the same day or close to that.
agree, the only real reason carriers are freaking is awesome option Apple had for remembering multiple SIMs. I am waiting for sim-less iphone. not sure though would happen with next iphone.

vpndev
May 30, 2011, 10:04 PM
Apple has always been very careful about working through the UI issues with hardware. So a move to built-in SIM will be done carefully and thinking though the impact on all carriers worldwide. After all, Apple wants to have fewer variations if it can.

Where I hope this is leading is to build a world-phone that works on any carrier. You could buy it with subsidy as we in the U.S. are forced to do now (for Verizon and AT&T at least) or purchase outright and have subsidy-free tariff (as happens in some parts of Europe).

If Apple is moving towards built-in SIM then these issues are certainly high on the discussion list.

I *really* hate the fact that AT&T refuses to unlock iPhones after contract expiration. They lost the class-action suit but the negotiated settlement was that that they'd unlock all phones *except* for iPhone.

Time for a new class-action suit, folks !

khunsanook
May 30, 2011, 10:08 PM
This. Might be OK in the States where you have a single carrier - but I like the ability to travel and swap SIM cards on my (unlocked out of the box) phone.

Agreed! I travel regularly in Asia and absolutely need to be able to swap SIM cards when necessary. The world market is not ready for an "e-SIM".

anush3
May 30, 2011, 10:08 PM
Instead of rolling your eyes (I did read your post), why don't you answer the second part of my issue - how do you propose I take my e-sim out of my iPhone and put it into the cheap nokia phone I use when I go to the beach, or football training, etc?

If all phones supported e-sims then it wouldn't be a problem as you'd still have the flexibility of a physical sim, but until then, it's one bleeding edge I've got no desire to be on

Well if you read his post then you should know that you can keep original sim if you need to put it in some other phone.:p
I would say to wait n watch , and not run to conclusions....I feel if Apple provides sim less phone they will give you options to do all things you could do with sim s.

anush3
May 30, 2011, 10:13 PM
It's a phone, people. Don't you have better things to do than buying new phones every year or whining that new phone is not what you wanted.
they have more physical hobbies than reading about phone forums:rolleyes:

firewood
May 30, 2011, 10:22 PM
Apple is losing serious ground ...

Apple doesn't care about losing that ground because, as other mobile device manufacturers will soon find out, that isn't very profitable ground.

Android will probably gain more market share ...

of a high percentage low profit margin customers.

viperGTS
May 30, 2011, 10:25 PM
More ******** from annonymous "sources...."
i think it's pretty obvious that the next iPhone is coming out this June. And will have a major spec upgrade, A5 dual core (why on EARTH would it be single?), better camera, and some other features like iOS 5.

seriously, these rumors are starting to become very annoying.

DeathChill
May 30, 2011, 10:28 PM
More ******** from annonymous "sources...."
i think it's pretty obvious that the next iPhone is coming out this June. And will have a major spec upgrade, A5 dual core (why on EARTH would it be single?), better camera, and some other features like iOS 5.

seriously, these rumors are starting to become very annoying.

Except that no new iPhone is coming this June. LoopInsight (which has Apple sources) confirmed this, as have many others.

lilcosco08
May 30, 2011, 10:36 PM
Except that no new iPhone is coming this June. LoopInsight (which has Apple sources) rumored this, as have many others.

Fixed that for ya'.

viperGTS
May 30, 2011, 10:38 PM
Except that no new iPhone is coming this June. LoopInsight (which has Apple sources) confirmed this, as have many others.

Show me your source which CONFIRMS that the new iPhone 5 will NOT come out this June.

@lilcosco, exactly :p

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 10:45 PM
Show me your source which CONFIRMS that the new iPhone 5 will NOT come out this June.

@lilcosco, exactly :p

It may not be "confirmed," but it's close to confirmed as you're ever going to get, (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/03/28/dalrymple) so it may as well be.

viperGTS
May 30, 2011, 10:49 PM
It may not be "confirmed," but it's close to confirmed as you're ever going to get, (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/03/28/dalrymple) so it may as well be.

That's not even close to confirmation.

DeathChill
May 30, 2011, 10:49 PM
I suppose you can say "rumoured" because Apple didn't directly say it, but Jim Dalrymple has well-connected sources into Apple (read: Apple uses him to put out non-official information). Gruber says that when Jim Dalrymple says it, it's true as he has very good sources.

EDIT: Are you serious? Gruber and Dalrymple are spot on every time because Apple is clearly supplying them with information. The only more confirmed it can be is if Apple said it, but Apple would never say anything like that directly.

AidenShaw
May 30, 2011, 10:56 PM
I suppose you can say "rumoured" because Apple didn't directly say it, but Jim Dalrymple has well-connected sources into Apple (read: Apple uses him to put out non-official information). Gruber says that when Jim Dalrymple says it, it's true as he has very good sources.

EDIT: Are you serious? Gruber and Dalrymple are spot on every time because Apple is clearly supplying them with information. The only more confirmed it can be is if Apple said it, but Apple would never say anything like that directly.

So, Apple uses them to manipulate the stock price?

Cougarcat
May 30, 2011, 10:59 PM
So, Apple uses them to manipulate the stock price?

It's known (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/01/06/former_apple_marketing_manager_describes_companys_controlled_leaks.html) apple does controlled leaks of information.

The reason for this case? Quell expectations, I suppose. Not that that'll work on the MacRumors crowd. ;)

LoganCircle
May 30, 2011, 11:02 PM
I'm not claiming that it's going to be in any way, shape or form, but I wouldn't be surprised it the iphone 4S/5 is released at WWDC.

I mean, really, it's not like they're re-inventing the wheel here. They're just upgrading the same model. They'll want to keep market share driving forward etc. The whole speculated reason for the delay was initially tech related, wasn't it? (LTE/NFC/Mind Control Chip). With the iphone 4S, they'd have the ability, tech aside. So, waiting for tech is no longer the issue. It's just whether or not they choose to do so. And judging by Apple's history, I think there is A possibility of seeing something at WWDC, considering any news to the contrary is all based on rumor.

Now, having said that, do I expect it to be? I hope so, but the one hold back keeping me from saying yes is that damned recent release of the white iphone. Love it...but dammit, I need to upgrade!