Why PSP may do more harm than good to Sony.

[manicdvln]

1. PSP is being sold as a loss, Sony is going in red by selling this machine too early and too cheap.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/psp/launch/so...sold-032557.php (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/psp/launch/sony-loses-100-for-every-psp-sold-032557.php)

2. The gap between software sales and PSP sales is huge! Everyone is buying a PSP but no one is buying the games which Sony depends to compensate for its hardware loses. This is the reason why in north america, Sony forced the value pack bundle and forcing big retailers to bundle the value pack with bunch of games you wouldnt consider even purchasing (EA games). Even though DS also had a bad software line-up, most if not all its games were constantly ranked in top 10 sales, while not so with PSP.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/charts.htm

3. UMD media will obviously fail because of laxed security on Memory sticks and high prices on UMD movies which cost more than a DVD!. It is no surprise that people will download, extract and upload movies they already own into PSP instead of buying it on UMD format. This will be counterproductive to Sony's battle (RIAA) against music/movie piracy by making a machine warez friendly!!!

http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/000693.html

4. People who may consider purchasing a PS2 may now lean on getting a PSP instead, since it doesn't seem there is a big difference in game selection between these two consoles. Not to mention, PSP has almost same power in gfx than a PS2 and can do more than a PS2 and obviously costs cheaper than a PS2 when it was launched. Note that PSP is not profitable to Sony, while PS2 success in sales and games may be damaged by Sony competing against itself.

http://www.us.playstation.com/psp/games.aspx?all

No, we can't say the same with Nintendo, cause DS plays different games than GC as well as the GBA plays different games than both, while there is pretty much no difference between PS2 and PSP in games and gfx other than one being mobile and the other not.

5. Sony now has to diversify it's financial ressources, which is already in a big slum, in many new divisons, now it has to make UMD media and try to keep it alive (which will fail), try to compete against ipod with PSP media capabilities (which will also fail) and also try go compete against Nintendo in handheld games which seems a big risk, since Nintendo has beaten 8 different handheld competitors before. This can also be detrimental for Sony future projects now being forced to concentrate its games and ressources more on PSP than PS3 (which makes sense since PS3 will pretty much be delayed).

Sony financial/management troubles:

a) http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1...zAs0&refer=asia (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aiimIU_uzAs0&refer=asia)

B) http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/BDA0...74F3D179771.htm (http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/BDA0E34F-907A-4DA8-A3A6-D74F3D179771.htm)

c) http://www.gamegossip.com/comment.php?id=12305

d) http://news.ft.com/cms/s/4e302fb4-8f1a-11d...000e2511c8.html (http://news.ft.com/cms/s/4e302fb4-8f1a-11d9-bb12-00000e2511c8.html)

Who will benefit from this Sony mistake? Maybe the consumer, maybe the competitors and maybe no one.

[ZildjianKX]

1. PSP is being sold as a loss, Sony is going in red by selling this machine too early and too cheap.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/psp/launch/so...sold-032557.php (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/psp/launch/sony-loses-100-for-every-psp-sold-032557.php)


Hate to break it to you, but almost every game system made with the exception of Nintendo is sold at a loss. The PS2 was sold at a loss, look how well it did.


2. The gap between software sales and PSP sales is huge! Everyone is buying a PSP but no one is buying the games which Sony depends to compensate for its hardware loses. This is the reason why in north america, Sony forced the value pack bundle and forcing big retailers to bundle the value pack with bunch of games you wouldnt consider even purchasing (EA games). Even though DS also had a bad software line-up, most if not all its games were constantly ranked in top 10 sales, while not so with PSP.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/charts.htm


With all the buzz and short demand, many people in Japan are hording the systems, i.e. buying it now because they think it's cool even if there isn't a game out yet that they want, definately not a horrible thing (increases their install base which Sony loves).


3. UMD media will obviously fail because of laxed security on Memory sticks and high prices on UMD movies which cost more than a DVD!. It is no surprise that people will download, extract and upload movies they already own into PSP instead of buying it on UMD format. This will be counterproductive to Sony's battle (RIAA) against music/movie piracy by making a machine warez friendly!!!

http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/000693.html


Uploading a movie that you already bought to your PSP is hardly warez (you bought it afterall). And having to convert all your movies to MPEG4 at limited resolutions is hardly warez friendly.


4. People who may consider purchasing a PS2 may now lean on getting a PSP instead, since it doesn't seem there is a big difference in game selection between these two consoles. Not to mention, PSP has almost same power in gfx than a PS2 and can do more than a PS2 and obviously costs cheaper than a PS2 when it was launched. Note that PSP is not profitable to Sony, while PS2 success in sales and games may be damaged by Sony competing against itself.

http://www.us.playstation.com/psp/games.aspx?all


The PS2 is almost end of lifed, it launched in MARCH of 2000 in Japan! PS3 is demoed at E3...


5. Sony now has to diversify it's financial ressources, which is already in a big slum, in many new divisons, now it has to make UMD media and try to keep it alive (which will fail), try to compete against ipod with PSP media capabilities (which will also fail) and also try go compete against Nintendo in handheld games which seems a big risk, since Nintendo has beaten 8 different handheld competitors before. This can also be detrimental for Sony future projects now being forced to concentrate its games and ressources more on PSP than PS3 (which makes sense since PS3 will pretty much be delayed).


The Playstation branch is one of the most successful divisions for Sony, look how they have dominated the home console market. Expanding their successful branch is probably actually a great idea, especially when their new entry console is as impressive as it is.

[dotdotdot]

The PSP is not going to hurt Sony - actually, Sony will benefit from having a portable system which plays music, movies, AND video games!

You can buy, for $400 and up, a Portable Media Center or an Archos video MP3 player. You can buy, for $249 a PSP which can do all that. Battery life sucks but how much do you want to be someone makes a back up battery pack for the PSP?

I think that it will be very profitable...

[pgc6000]

I won't be buying one, but the PSP won't hurt Sony at all. But I still don't see the point in watching movies on a PSP. Why would you want to watch movies on something that small? You could buy a portable DVD player, or hell, just use your laptop if you have one.

[edesignuk]

Oh yeah. Over 1m units sold in Japan (I read it somewhere, can't remember where). Pre-orders in the US and the EU, not sure of the figures, but it's a lot....yeah, must be hurting :rolleyes:

Sony will not loose out here.

[GFLPraxis]

Okay, as you read this, we are NOT saying the PSP sucks. We're saying Sony will lose money on it, even if its good.

Hate to break it to you, but almost every game system made with the exception of Nintendo is sold at a loss. The PS2 was sold at a loss, look how well it did.

Right, but remember, they need to make up for it with software sales.



With all the buzz and short demand, many people in Japan are hording the systems, i.e. buying it now because they think it's cool even if there isn't a game out yet that they want, definately not a horrible thing (increases their install base which Sony loves).


However, the big problem is that games are much more expensive on the PSP, so people will buy less games.


Uploading a movie that you already bought to your PSP is hardly warez (you bought it afterall). And having to convert all your movies to MPEG4 at limited resolutions is hardly warez friendly.

Firstly, cracking the encryption on a DVD when you rip it is legal, so it counts as warez. Now, I understand you might do this anyway. That doesn't matter.

You're actually AGREEING with him. Most people will UPLOAD MOVIES to the PSP. The UMD movies won't sell. Therefore, Sony won't make any money off people uploading UMD movies, or any money off people uploading their own movies.



The PS2 is almost end of lifed, it launched in MARCH of 2000 in Japan! PS3 is demoed at E3...


And not released for OVER a full year AFTER E3. Sony has plenty of time to profit. Look at Nintendo, they're releasing a flurry of new GameCube games this year (new Zelda, w00t).


The Playstation branch is one of the most successful divisions for Sony, look how they have dominated the home console market. Expanding their successful branch is probably actually a great idea, especially when their new entry console is as impressive as it is.

Of course, but if it's losing MONEY, it's a problem, isn't it? :rolleyes:

The PSP is not going to hurt Sony - actually, Sony will benefit from having a portable system which plays music, movies, AND video games!

You can buy, for $400 and up, a Portable Media Center or an Archos video MP3 player. You can buy, for $249 a PSP which can do all that. Battery life sucks but how much do you want to be someone makes a back up battery pack for the PSP?



Okay this is just ignorance.
The $250 PSP isn't capable of ANY of that. To make it capable you have to buy a $150 1 GB Duo stick. So now you have a $400 PSP that can hold 1 GB of videos on a less-than-TV resolution screen.


The Creative Portable Media Center on the other hand has a 20 GB hard drive 20 times the space! And a 7 hour video playback battery life (22 hours for music, compared to 10 on the PSP)!


Sorry, the PSP is vastly inferior as a media center. Jack of all trades, master of none. If you want it, get it as a GAMING system. NOT a media center.

I think that it will be very profitable...
???
Have you not read any of this thread?
Remember, Sony makes a loss on every PSP sold.

THEREFORE,
If everyone buys a PSP to use as a Media Center, and doesn't buy games, Sony makes a HUGE loss.

So having extra features is not necessarily a benefit here!

Oh yeah. Over 1m units sold in Japan (I read it somewhere, can't remember where). Pre-orders in the US and the EU, not sure of the figures, but it's a lot....yeah, must be hurting :rolleyes:

Sony will not loose out here.

You're thinking as a consumer, not the company.

To the consumer: More sold = better.

That's not true.

1 million sold in Japan- with a loss on EVERY ONE. If Sony doesn't sell several million games, they don't make up the loss.

We're not talking about Sony losing the console war, we're talking about them losing loads of cash.


(Just for reference, the DS has sold several million in Japan, though, so don't get overconfident)

[Timelessblur]

Ok some really does not know much what he is talking about. by the looks of it you look like a Nintendo fan boy but that not the point.

Lets me make a list of thing that people have stated that have been proven wrong.

Lets start with the PS. People where saying that that the orginal Play station was a bad Idea. Oh now it controls the market. it also started off with no software.

Xbox. People really hated that one. It had next to no software. very low software sells at the begining. Now lets look at it. Oh yeah it extermly popular and is doing great.

Game cube. It was stated that it was to far behind the PS2 and the Xbox. Nope that wrong.

Right now software sells are low but it happen for all of them and there was little at the begining and over time it picks up. It going to take a while to get into the market. They are going to have to take some heavy losses if they want to break the Nintiedo power house their. Nintiedo used to be the huge in the consulal market and now they are quickly falling in that air to MS and Sony which both to losses to get in and once you get you foot it easy to keep it going. You have to wait about a year or so to see how it plays out.

[edesignuk]

You're thinking as a consumer, not the company.

To the consumer: More sold = better.

That's not true.

1 million sold in Japan- with a loss on EVERY ONE. If Sony doesn't sell several million games, they don't make up the loss.

We're not talking about Sony losing the console war, we're talking about them losing loads of cash.


(Just for reference, the DS has sold several million in Japan, though, so don't get overconfident)
But as has already been said, companies often take a hit on the hardware, fact is the more you can shift (even if at a loss) the more software you will be able to sell later on - $$$$$$$$$$!!!!!

[GFLPraxis]

Ok some really does not know much what he is talking about. by the looks of it you look like a Nintendo fan boy but that not the point.

Lets me make a list of thing that people have stated that have been proven wrong.

Lets start with the PS. People where saying that that the orginal Play station was a bad Idea. Oh now it controls the market. it also started off with no software.

Xbox. People really hated that one. It had next to no software. very low software sells at the begining. Now lets look at it. Oh yeah it extermly popular and is doing great.

Game cube. It was stated that it was to far behind the PS2 and the Xbox. Nope that wrong.

Right now software sells are low but it happen for all of them and there was little at the begining and over time it picks up. It going to take a while to get into the market. They are going to have to take some heavy losses if they want to break the Nintiedo power house their. Nintiedo used to be the huge in the consulal market and now they are quickly falling in that air to MS and Sony which both to losses to get in and once you get you foot it easy to keep it going. You have to wait about a year or so to see how it plays out.

Actually, the XBox FAILED. They may have sold a bunch, but they lost more than they gained. XBox's profits were negative while Sony and Nintendo had large numbers (Sony's the highest, but barely, barely above Nintendo's. Since Nintendo sold considerably less GC's, they must have been taking less of a loss on them since they almost tied Sony).

The thing is, UMD disks are obviously not going to sell well, and with the high prices of the PSP games they won't be flying off the shelves (people will buy them once in a while instead of a lot at once). That makes it very difficult to make a profit.


Now, Sony may be trying to pull an XBox- take an overall complete loss in cash just to get the system out the door and establish a fan club, so that when they release a PSP2, THEN they can try to make a profit. That could be what they're doing. Because it seems like they won't be making a lot of profit on the PSP, even if they completely outsold the DS, unless the software prices go down.


P.S. take a wild guess what game I played on my DS for five hours yesterday... :D
MegaMan Zero 3. (I notice your avatar features Zero)
I killed X, too. That was fun. :)

[ZildjianKX]

Firstly, cracking the encryption on a DVD when you rip it is legal, so it counts as warez. Now, I understand you might do this anyway. That doesn't matter.

You're actually AGREEING with him. Most people will UPLOAD MOVIES to the PSP. The UMD movies won't sell. Therefore, Sony won't make any money off people uploading UMD movies, or any money off people uploading their own movies.


Well, technically from the DMCA it is illegal to circumvent the encryption on a DVD, but at the same time it's legal to back up a movie for fair use (Sony betamax cases)... so it's really a catch-22 since the DMCA is conflicting with the other law.

My main response was the PSP is not a "warez machine," which it's not. Having to convert the films (super pain in the ass) to MPEG4 is very limiting. Saying that it can play MP3s is against Sony and the RIAA is just absurd, you better tell that to every MP3 maker out there (especially since the PSP will probably get support for the Sony online music store).

Movies coming out for the PSP are going to be Sony films (excluding the handful of Disney that were just announced), so if you want to watch those on your PSP, guess what? You have to buy the Sony DVD. And if you choose to rip a movie and put it on your PSP, it's going to be lesser quality because they limit the MPEG4 resolution, and also you have to buy a VERY expensive Sony Memory stick (believe me, they know what they are doing).

And not released for OVER a full year AFTER E3. Sony has plenty of time to profit. Look at Nintendo, they're releasing a flurry of new GameCube games this year (new Zelda, w00t).

There is no way the PSP is going to hurt the PS2 sales. Have you seen the Japanese PS2 sales? Still going strong. Hell, most of the PS2 fans are BUYING the PSP. There really isn't a conflict between the two consoles since handhelds are totally a different market (I buy one to hook up to my HDTV at home and relax, the other to have something to do on the train). The Sony PS2 has made Sony so much money that no matter what happpens, they have made their money. And I don't think they really care about their PS2 console base at the moment... it's super high, and like it was said, they make their money off of their games and they're still selling strong.



Of course, but if it's losing MONEY, it's a problem, isn't it?

Still not sure why people are arguing it will lose money... (plus they are selling the system at cost pretty much, thank you value pack with $10 of manufactured accessories tops).

[GFLPraxis]

But as has already been said, companies often take a hit on the hardware, fact is the more you can shift (even if at a loss) the more software you will be able to sell later on - $$$$$$$$$$!!!!!


Very true, but Sony's in the awkward position of selling an expensive system while still taking a loss ($250 is very expensive for a handheld, and the PSP's hardware is worth more than that, so Sony loses a lot of money). They also have the position of selling handheld games that cost a whopping $50.

That means people that don't have a lot of money and saved up for a while to buy the PSP aren't quite ready to run out and buy a bunch of games. That'll hurt their profits.

Now, as I said, they could be pulling an XBox- selling with the intention of getting a loss, just to get the console out the door. If so, it is a brilliant move, assuming Sony has the money to cover for the losses.



There is no way the PSP is going to hurt the PS2 sales. Have you seen the Japanese PS2 sales? Still going strong. Hell, most of the PS2 fans are BUYING the PSP. There really isn't a conflict between the two consoles since handhelds are totally a different market (I buy one to hook up to my HDTV at home and relax, the other to have something to do on the train).

Guess they have more money than me. If I bought a $250 handheld system and a $50 game, having just spent $300, I would probably not buy any other games for quite some time :D Heck, I even did that after buying my DS.

[ZildjianKX]

Guess they have more money than me. If I bought a $250 handheld system and a $50 game, having just spent $300, I would probably not buy any other games for quite some time :D Heck, I even did that after buying my DS.

Well, I loaded up on EBgames giftcards, so I ended up paying $220 for my PSP after tax.

Then Sam Goody had a nice free shipping sale with $10 off $50 orders, so I ended up getting 4 $40 games for about $130... then ebgames had a trade-in deal, so I traded in 2 very old gamecube games and a $4.99 PS2 Jampack for Wipeout Pure + tax, so I really can't complain money wise about the PSP too much (about $360 for the system and 5 games after having traded in 2 bad old games).

[GFLPraxis]

Well, I loaded up on EBgames giftcards, so I ended up paying $220 for my PSP after tax.

Then Sam Goody had a nice free shipping sale with $10 off $50 orders, so I ended up getting 4 $40 games for about $130... then ebgames had a trade-in deal, so I traded in 2 very old gamecube games and a $4.99 PS2 Jampack for Wipeout Pure + tax, so I really can't complain money wise about the PSP too much (about $360 for the system and 5 games after having traded in 2 bad old games).

LOL, very nice :D

[eva01]

every single sony hardware i have ever owned has broken T_T.

none of my Bose, Apple, Nintendo, Yamaha, hell even RCA haven't broken

that is why i wont get a PSP. if i did the screen would implode

[ZildjianKX]

every single sony hardware i have ever owned has broken T_T.

none of my Bose, Apple, Nintendo, Yamaha, hell even RCA haven't broken

that is why i wont get a PSP. if i did the screen would implode

Hate to agree with you, but Sony really lacks it in the quality of their consoles at times. Look at all the damn revisions to the PS2 console (more than 1 a year, they are like on revision 8). I may be forced to buy an extended warranty from EB because I just know a bug fixed model might come out later.

[GFLPraxis]

It could just be you, I have a friend whom, every time he walks in my house one of the computers (Windows PCs) crash. If I'm trying to fix something and can't, and he steps back, suddenly it starts working. :D

Computers and consoles just hate certain people ;)

[zimtheinvader]

There is no comparison between the PS2 library and that of the PSP, the PS2 can play hundreds of PS1+PS2 games, while the PSP can only play the select few that have been or are being ported.

I think Sony may have hit this particular market on the head, esp. since the DS is flailing w/ its limited game appeal, (more wierd child-like puzzle games...)

What I don't understand is why Sony doesn't come right off the bat w/ a port of Quake (or Quake II/III!) or even Doom or Descent or something, That would be the death knell once and forever for Nintendo's portable market for 17+yr olds.

[GFLPraxis]

There is no comparison between the PS2 library and that of the PSP, the PS2 can play hundreds of PS1+PS2 games, while the PSP can only play the select few that have been or are being ported.

I think Sony may have hit this particular market on the head, esp. since the DS is flailing w/ its limited game appeal, (more wierd child-like puzzle games...)

What I don't understand is why Sony doesn't come right off the bat w/ a port of Quake (or Quake II/III!) or even Doom or Descent or something, That would be the death knell once and forever for Nintendo's portable market for 17+yr olds.

The DS's only real problem is that the developers are making new games from scratch while the PSP developers are porting games like nuts.

Most of the good DS games don't come out till September :(

As a result, the DS's game library doesn't look too good ATM. But the future library looks awesome.


I don't understand your reasoning on the "A Doom II port would be the death of Nintendo!!!"...Nintendo's got Metroid Prime Hunters, which controls much better than the dual joystick design of the PSP, PS2, XBox, etc. And BTW. The majority of people I know with DSs are over 17 years old.
If I hear another "Nintendo is for kids!" comment someone will be in pain :p

[Dagless]

my DS cost me £150 with 2 full games and a demo, and it was imported (aka more than it costs normally) at the time the PSP *cough* value (?!??) pack was £300.

an official DS battery costs £6 imported,
an official PSP battery costs £35 imported.

DS needs no external memory storage (which has both positive and negative aspects),
PSPs Memory Duo costs a frikkin fortune compared to SD/MMC and co.

meh :rolleyes:

to be honest i can see that the PSP will attract more 'grown up' handheld gamers who want to, for some reason, play massive 3D games on a teeny tiny screen. fair play to them. but seriously i can see it has its own market, but consider someone who has never had a handheld before and wants one... what is he/she going to do? pay a bloody fortune or half that? hmm

[Timelessblur]

Actually, the XBox FAILED. They may have sold a bunch, but they lost more than they gained. XBox's profits were negative while Sony and Nintendo had large numbers (Sony's the highest, but barely, barely above Nintendo's. Since Nintendo sold considerably less GC's, they must have been taking less of a loss on them since they almost tied Sony).

The thing is, UMD disks are obviously not going to sell well, and with the high prices of the PSP games they won't be flying off the shelves (people will buy them once in a while instead of a lot at once). That makes it very difficult to make a profit.


Now, Sony may be trying to pull an XBox- take an overall complete loss in cash just to get the system out the door and establish a fan club, so that when they release a PSP2, THEN they can try to make a profit. That could be what they're doing. Because it seems like they won't be making a lot of profit on the PSP, even if they completely outsold the DS, unless the software prices go down.


P.S. take a wild guess what game I played on my DS for five hours yesterday... :D
MegaMan Zero 3. (I notice your avatar features Zero)
I killed X, too. That was fun. :)


umm the xbox did not fail MS went in making the xbox not planning on getting out of the red on it for I think 8 years. They wanted to get in the market so yet again you are wrong. Sony and MS are both thinking long term like 8-10 years down the road. THey are taking the heavy heavy looses up frount to get in the market and to remove the power house.

btw you PS means jack to me because you spent what 150 on the DS while my the 60 bucks I payed over 2 years ago for my GBA can still play Zero 3 (which I plan on getting later) Now if it was a DS game it might mean something but it is just a GBA game....

[combatcolin]

Hi GFLPraxis, its your xBox emulating friend from the other thread!

Man are you going for a record in posting or something? ;)

Anyway, regarding the PSP, alarming amount of news about the build quaility, battery and the grief about the square button.

Also that lovely big screen is going to get scrached very easy.

I do hope that Sony have a good crack at the handheld market, its been a near monoply for Nintendo since the Lynx and Game Gear died off and while they make amazing games there bloody expensive in the UK.

[zelmo]

But as has already been said, companies often take a hit on the hardware, fact is the more you can shift (even if at a loss) the more software you will be able to sell later on - $$$$$$$$$$!!!!!

True, and it is vital that Sony get many units into consumers hands as early as possible to create an installed base attractive enough for 3rd party publishers to suppport it well. Who cares if they lose money on the hardware at the outset? Sony is here for the long haul, not to make a quick buck.
Name one console that wasn't sold at a loss when it was released. The point is to reach critical mass, with a strong installed base pushing developers to produce more, better content, and that content in turn luring new consumers to the platform. As the volume of hardware sold rises, economies of scale kick in and the hardware becomes less expensive to manufacture. This results in some combination of lower hardware retail pricing and profitable sales for Sony. Either way, the platform reaches a viable base and is a success.

I'll be there on the 24th, with $400 in hand for the system and three games (Wipeout Pure, Tiger Woods, and either Ape Escape or Lumines).

[GFLPraxis]

umm the xbox did not fail MS went in making the xbox not planning on getting out of the red on it for I think 8 years. They wanted to get in the market so yet again you are wrong. Sony and MS are both thinking long term like 8-10 years down the road. THey are taking the heavy heavy looses up frount to get in the market and to remove the power house.

From a company standpoint it is a failure because it failed to make money, and thats the purpose of business.

It did succeed in becoming a major player, but only at a huge loss.
Therefore, Microsoft deliberately set the XBox up to fail financially so that the XBox 2 could succeed. I suspect Sony is doing this with the PSP- the PSP will fail from a company standpoint (losing a lot of money) so the PSP2 can succeed and Nintendo can be displaced. Don't know if it'll succeed or not.


btw you PS means jack to me because you spent what 150 on the DS while my the 60 bucks I payed over 2 years ago for my GBA can still play Zero 3 (which I plan on getting later) Now if it was a DS game it might mean something but it is just a GBA game....


It wasn't a DS vs PSP thing, I was just pointing that out because I saw your sig. I highly recommend Zero 3 for your GBA. I managed to get all 12 EX skills yesterday.

[GFLPraxis]

Hi GFLPraxis, its your xBox emulating friend from the other thread!

Man are you going for a record in posting or something? ;)

I type really, really fast...lol :D



I do hope that Sony have a good crack at the handheld market, its been a near monoply for Nintendo since the Lynx and Game Gear died off and while they make amazing games there bloody expensive in the UK.


Definitely. I'm hoping the release of the PSP will drive DS prices down.
No company should go without competition.

[manicdvln]

True, and it is vital that Sony get many units into consumers hands as early as possible to create an installed base attractive enough for 3rd party publishers to suppport it well. Who cares if they lose money on the hardware at the outset? Sony is here for the long haul, not to make a quick buck.
Name one console that wasn't sold at a loss when it was released. The point is to reach critical mass, with a strong installed base pushing developers to produce more, better content, and that content in turn luring new consumers to the platform. As the volume of hardware sold rises, economies of scale kick in and the hardware becomes less expensive to manufacture. This results in some combination of lower hardware retail pricing and profitable sales for Sony. Either way, the platform reaches a viable base and is a success.

I'll be there on the 24th, with $400 in hand for the system and three games (Wipeout Pure, Tiger Woods, and either Ape Escape or Lumines).


Yes, taking losses to expand market share is a valid strategy, but when your company is in billions of dollars in debt, you change your strategy from aggressive to conservative. Yes, Sony is smart in going in the handheld business because nintendo has taken control 90% of market share, and that market share will only go down whatever the competitor's handhed may be. But sony is being arrogant, and attempting the same tricks up its sleeve without being conscious about it's financial status. I don't think Sony deliberately did these mistakes in its handheld, it's the lack of communication within the company. I seriously doubt, executives in Sony music division are very happy with PSP media upload capabilities, neither would Sony electronics division be happy that so much R&D and development costs are going to gaming division (PS3/CELL/PSP) instead of revitalizing its electronics department which is one of the biggest burdens in Sony profit. Companies like Samsung, LG, Canon are beating Sony in its own game. I didn't even mention that MGM movie, latest biggest hit was only spiderman 2, which I found ironic that they packaged it for free UMD movie with Sony PSP.

I think the company is falling apart, it's has stretched too fast and spending more than it can earn. Let's not even start with Sony yearly loss of quality control in its products as well as illogical premium prices.

[imac_japan]

All this crap is just people trying to hype the system.....So Sony sells millions of PSP...

Look, I live in Japan....I own a PSP......The PS2 has most of the video game market - The X-box has what (last time i checked) just barely sold more consoles than the PS1 !!

The PSP is a dream machine...YES Apple has the ipod - IF you want just to listen to music then buy an ipod. I have both the Ipod and PSP and I like having the PSP for long trips because you can a) watch a TV show b) listen to music and 3) play a game.....it breaks up traveling on the train......

The PSP has been outselling the DS here in Japan and hopefully do well in America......so don't be worried about Sony - i'll be more concerned about APPLE and the ipod...

[imac_japan]

All this crap is just people trying to hype the system.....So Sony sells millions of PSP...

Look, I live in Japan....I own a PSP......The PS2 has most of the video game market - The X-box has what (last time i checked) just barely sold more consoles than the PS1 !!

The PSP is a dream machine...YES Apple has the ipod - IF you want just to listen to music then buy an ipod. I have both the Ipod and PSP and I like having the PSP for long trips because you can a) watch a TV show b) listen to music and 3) play a game.....it breaks up traveling on the train......

The PSP has been outselling the DS here in Japan and hopefully do well in America......so don't be worried about Sony - i'll be more concerned about APPLE and the ipod...

[combatcolin]

I type really, really fast...lol :D




Definitely. I'm hoping the release of the PSP will drive DS prices down.
No company should go without competition.

Christ we agree on something! :eek:

regarding "loss leading" console's

Nintendo created the concept of selling the Base unit at a loss and making the money up from software and acc sales

The Gamcube was never sold at loss and did actually make a profit per sale in the early days, the same with the GBA and probably the same will happen with the DS.

Not quite sure if the SNES and N64 made a profit or if Nintendo had used the same retail stratagy as the GC.

Sony and Microsoft both managed to redesign there consoles for cheaper maufactering costs , Sony much more radically than Microsoft, however at the same time they had to lower the retail price so while they gained on one hand they lost on the other.

Microsoft are now following Nintendo's lead, spend £££ in initail design and end up with a powerful yet cheap to manufacture end product.

[imac_japan]

umm the xbox did not fail MS went in making the xbox not planning on getting out of the red on it for I think 8 years. .

YES..it did !! In Japan, the X-box fell on its face !! Sony and Nintendo stepped on it and it died even before it was released........

[Timelessblur]

From a company standpoint it is a failure because it failed to make money, and thats the purpose of business.

It did succeed in becoming a major player, but only at a huge loss.
Therefore, Microsoft deliberately set the XBox up to fail financially so that the XBox 2 could succeed. I suspect Sony is doing this with the PSP- the PSP will fail from a company standpoint (losing a lot of money) so the PSP2 can succeed and Nintendo can be displaced. Don't know if it'll succeed or not.


So thank you by you own argument it succeed. It does not have to make money to succeed. It what you call a loss leader. It you intend to loose money on one item to make money on another and it only consider a failure if item 2 does not sell well. I sorry but most of you aguments show it pretty clear you dont understand how things work in the real world. You look only short term and as I will point out again it does not have to make money to succeed. to Succeed they only have to accoplish what the goal they set out to do.

Xbox was set up to not make money. It was set out to get into the market and get a good market share. Hmm it made that goal so it succeedded.

PSP is doing the same thing. It is not intended to make money. It is intendent to get into the market and get a good market share.

I sorry to point this out to you but you clear dont know much about how things work here or you are such a fan boy that you are blind to it. Either way you have a lot to learn and you dont know what you are talking about.

[dermeister]

1. PSP is being sold as a loss, Sony is going in red by selling this machine too early and too cheap.
Too early? Hah! They're making kids afraid of buying the new DS because the kids know the PSP might make thier DS uncool. In fact PSP probably made a massive dent in DS sales without even being out.

Too cheap? What modern console system has EVER not been a loss-leader? I think you have enough anti-proofs to break this without a sweat.

2. The gap between software sales and PSP sales is huge! Everyone is buying a PSP but no one is buying the games which Sony depends to compensate for its hardware loses. This is the reason why in north america, Sony forced the value pack bundle and forcing big retailers to bundle the value pack with bunch of games you wouldnt consider even purchasing (EA games). Even though DS also had a bad software line-up, most if not all its games were constantly ranked in top 10 sales, while not so with PSP.
Actually, by forcing users to buy a value pack, they're selling at least one game per system sold. Now if it isn't the game that kid wanted, too bad he'll buy it anyways PLUS whatever game he wanted at launch. Two games sold now. Oh and a UMD movie, which will give the kid a good taste of PSP movie coolness. And do really think they won't close the gap with all the games the kids are going to buy? Do you really think they're all going to buy PSPs and decide not to buy games? Oh but you argue that they will at a lower frequency... Not really. A kid that would have gotten X games on his DS will bug his parents for X games on his PSP, and his parents will cave-in X times. The kids are fighting this battle, not Sony. Sony just needs a PSP in the hands of as many kids as possible.

3. UMD media will obviously fail because of laxed security on Memory sticks and high prices on UMD movies which cost more than a DVD!. It is no surprise that people will download, extract and upload movies they already own into PSP instead of buying it on UMD format. This will be counterproductive to Sony's battle (RIAA) against music/movie piracy by making a machine warez friendly!!!
Obviously fail? No movies? Ever heard of SONY PICTURES? DISNEY? That guarantees a massive UMD movie library. Now you say KIDS are going to be able to warez movies and convert them and transfer them to their PSPs... Not really. And if a minority does, Sony isn't loosing money when people that warez everything don't buy UMD anyways. The VALUE PACK forced on every PSP user includes a movie. Guess what the kids are going to want?

4. People who may consider purchasing a PS2 may now lean on getting a PSP instead, since it doesn't seem there is a big difference in game selection between these two consoles. Not to mention, PSP has almost same power in gfx than a PS2 and can do more than a PS2 and obviously costs cheaper than a PS2 when it was launched. Note that PSP is not profitable to Sony, while PS2 success in sales and games may be damaged by Sony competing against itself.
As previously said, the PS2 is essentially End-Of-Lined. If they can transfer their success to the PSP to avoid kids from buying the GC or XBOX, fantastic. They need to look further than making a bit more a bit longer on the PS2. If they were going to make money on PS2 games, but instead lose a bit on the PSP introduction, GOOD. They're going to burn Nintendo, the undisputed handheld champion. Champion in everything untill Sony went after them. The hardware is a LOSS-LEADER for a reason. MARKET DOMINANCE is worth losing a few million dollars. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT BEING "IN THE RED". Obtaining TOTAL MARKET DOMINANCE for a few hundred million is NOTHING to Sony. If it takes one PSP generation to be profitable, SO BE IT. Were nintendo to say "give us x million dollars for the entire market.", Sony would say "where do we sign?".

No, we can't say the same with Nintendo, cause DS plays different games than GC as well as the GBA plays different games than both, while there is pretty much no difference between PS2 and PSP in games and gfx other than one being mobile and the other not.
Made irrelevent by above rebuttle. Kids know the DS is a gimick and Sony's PSP launch has damaged its success BIG-TIME. If nintendo loses the handheld battle in Japan, its automatically over in NA and EU. The DS is being converted to a PDA, and they've announced a new system in response to the PSP (no wonder, they know that the DS can't fend-off the PSP). DS owners are being antagonized on top of it. Nintendo should be holding on for its very-life right now.

5. Sony now has to diversify it's financial ressources, which is already in a big slum, in many new divisons, now it has to make UMD media and try to keep it alive (which will fail), try to compete against ipod with PSP media capabilities (which will also fail) and also try go compete against Nintendo in handheld games which seems a big risk, since Nintendo has beaten 8 different handheld competitors before. This can also be detrimental for Sony future projects now being forced to concentrate its games and ressources more on PSP than PS3 (which makes sense since PS3 will pretty much be delayed).
Ten years ago they showed us Nintendo can be broken by a superior offering from a company that can withstand being in the red for a bit. I have nothing more to say, your analysis has so many massive-gaping-holes that I can walk right through it. Maybe it will "fail" according to your definition of "failure", but all I know is that Sony will end up with dominance or a massive share in a market it didn't previously have a presence in.

Who will benefit from this Sony mistake? Maybe the consumer, maybe the competitors and maybe no one.
Mistake? Right, Apple going into the iPod market was deemed a mistake too. If its the same kind of mistake, and it looks like it will be, thats a PRETTY SWEET MISTAKE for Sony.

Will the customer gain? Yeah. Nintendo will have to be competitive to hang-on to its very life.

Now, I don't plan on getting a PSP for now at least, as being in university has stripped me of all my game-playing desire/time. But I'll still tell you straight up that Nintendo has a LOT to lose, and the the process has already begun. Nintendo is last wall of its fortress, and we know that a fortress really only needs to lose one wall for the enemy to enter.

It seems fitting to end my rebuttle with this:

Game Over

[takao]

hmmm i wonder when the PSP will launch over here.. still no confirmed date... come one... has sony hired apple employees ? delaying a release for 4 months, because not being able to deliver...looks like the same old keep-availibility-small-for-hyping-it-up game sony really loves to play

[manicdvln]

All this crap is just people trying to hype the system.....So Sony sells millions of PSP...

Look, I live in Japan....I own a PSP......The PS2 has most of the video game market - The X-box has what (last time i checked) just barely sold more consoles than the PS1 !!

The PSP is a dream machine...YES Apple has the ipod - IF you want just to listen to music then buy an ipod. I have both the Ipod and PSP and I like having the PSP for long trips because you can a) watch a TV show b) listen to music and 3) play a game.....it breaks up traveling on the train......

The PSP has been outselling the DS here in Japan and hopefully do well in America......so don't be worried about Sony - i'll be more concerned about APPLE and the ipod...


DS and PSP sales in japan are steady, PSP has sold 100 000 more units this year, but if you account the sales of 2004 also. DS have 1 000 000 more units sold over PSP.

Once again, you thinking like a consumer, this sales debate was put to an end previously by another poster. Sales do no necessarily equate to success in profitability.

[manicdvln]

Too early? Hah! They're making kids afraid of buying the new DS because the kids know the PSP might make thier DS uncool. In fact PSP probably made a massive dent in DS sales without even being out.

Too cheap? What modern console system has EVER not been a loss-leader? I think you have enough anti-proofs to break this without a sweat.


Actually, by forcing users to buy a value pack, they're selling at least one game per system sold. Now if it isn't the game that kid wanted, too bad he'll buy it anyways PLUS whatever game he wanted at launch. Two games sold now. Oh and a UMD movie, which will give the kid a good taste of PSP movie coolness. And do really think they won't close the gap with all the games the kids are going to buy? Do you really think they're all going to buy PSPs and decide not to buy games? Oh but you argue that they will at a lower frequency... Not really. A kid that would have gotten X games on his DS will bug his parents for X games on his PSP, and his parents will cave-in X times. The kids are fighting this battle, not Sony. Sony just needs a PSP in the hands of as many kids as possible.


Obviously fail? No movies? Ever heard of SONY PICTURES? DISNEY? That guarantees a massive UMD movie library. Now you say KIDS are going to be able to warez movies and convert them and transfer them to their PSPs... Not really. And if a minority does, Sony isn't loosing money when people that warez everything don't buy UMD anyways. The VALUE PACK forced on every PSP user includes a movie. Guess what the kids are going to want?


As previously said, the PS2 is essentially End-Of-Lined. If they can transfer their success to the PSP to avoid kids from buying the GC or XBOX, fantastic. They need to look further than making a bit more a bit longer on the PS2. If they were going to make money on PS2 games, but instead lose a bit on the PSP introduction, GOOD. They're going to burn Nintendo, the undisputed handheld champion. Champion in everything untill Sony went after them. The hardware is a LOSS-LEADER for a reason. MARKET DOMINANCE is worth losing a few million dollars. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT BEING "IN THE RED". Obtaining TOTAL MARKET DOMINANCE for a few hundred million is NOTHING to Sony. If it takes one PSP generation to be profitable, SO BE IT. Were nintendo to say "give us x million dollars for the entire market.", Sony would say "where do we sign?".


Made irrelevent by above rebuttle. Kids know the DS is a gimick and Sony's PSP launch has damaged its success BIG-TIME. If nintendo loses the handheld battle in Japan, its automatically over in NA and EU. The DS is being converted to a PDA, and they've announced a new system in response to the PSP (no wonder, they know that the DS can't fend-off the PSP). DS owners are being antagonized on top of it. Nintendo should be holding on for its very-life right now.


Ten years ago they showed us Nintendo can be broken by a superior offering from a company that can withstand being in the red for a bit. I have nothing more to say, your analysis has so many massive-gaping-holes that I can walk right through it. Maybe it will "fail" according to your definition of "failure", but all I know is that Sony will end up with dominance or a massive share in a market it didn't previously have a presence in.

Mistake? Right, Apple going into the iPod market was deemed a mistake too. If its the same kind of mistake, and it looks like it will be, thats a PRETTY SWEET MISTAKE for Sony.

Will the customer gain? Yeah. Nintendo will have to be competitive to hang-on to its very life.

Now, I don't plan on getting a PSP for now at least, as being in university has stripped me of all my game-playing desire/time. But I'll still tell you straight up that Nintendo has a LOT to lose, and the the process has already begun. Nintendo is last wall of its fortress, and we know that a fortress really only needs to lose one wall for the enemy to enter.

It seems fitting to end my rebuttle with this:

Game Over


I am sorry but you posted alot of uninformed blabber. Nintendo is not doomed, far from it. It also has sustained a rate of profitability higher than MS or Sony could ever achieve. It's huge cash reserves which are in billions like apple always leverage the company in secure finance.

Keep fanboyism bigotry out of proper reasoning please.

[dermeister]

I am sorry but you posted alot of uninformed blabber. Nintendo is not doomed, far from it. It also has sustained a rate of profitability higher than MS or Sony could ever achieve. It's huge cash reserves which are in billions like apple always leverage the company in secure finance.

Keep fanboyism bigotry out of proper reasoning please.

How am I a fanboy if I haven't bough any game console in over 7 years? I simply saw a thread claiming the PSP can do harm to Sony, and read a rather irrational analysis. I don't even play videogames, but I just wanted to debate the OP's analysis. Defending the PSP in this case does not make me a "Sony biggot". In fact, I think the build quality of most of their products is **** these days. But I also realize that they have increadible power in the gaming industry.

I never claimed Nintendo was systematically doomed, don't put words in my mouth (biggot). I claimed that they are being agressively ATTACKED by a company that has succeeded in hurting them before, and if they don't fight back properly and effectively, then yes they will sustain damage. Nintendo is at the top for handhelds, and can only lose market share. They HAVE to fend off the PSP, or they WILL have a problem.

If you think any one company is invincible, the one incapable of proper reasoning is you.

[GFLPraxis]

So thank you by you own argument it succeed. It does not have to make money to succeed. It what you call a loss leader. It you intend to loose money on one item to make money on another and it only consider a failure if item 2 does not sell well. I sorry but most of you aguments show it pretty clear you dont understand how things work in the real world. You look only short term and as I will point out again it does not have to make money to succeed. to Succeed they only have to accoplish what the goal they set out to do.

Incorrect. You DO have to make money to succeed.
If the XBox 1's failure causes the XBox 2 to succeed (and make up for the losses), then the XBox 1 succeeded. If the XBox 2 doesn't take off, then the XBox 1 remains a failure.

MS set the XBox 1 up to fail to help the XBox 2 to succeed. Whether or not the XBox 2 succeeds or not is yet to be determined.

And the XBox 1 fell on its face in Japan.

Xbox was set up to not make money. It was set out to get into the market and get a good market share. Hmm it made that goal so it succeedded.


It accomplished its goal, but from a company standpoint it hurt the stock. IF it drives up XBox 2 sales to the point it makes up for the losses, then it succeeded. If it does not, it is still a failure. At the current point, it's still a failure.


PSP is doing the same thing. It is not intended to make money. It is intendent to get into the market and get a good market share.


Then you are AGREEING with me that Sony is intending to lose money on the PSP so that the PSP2 can make money.

Concession accepted. Thanks for admitting I was rigth all along :D


I sorry to point this out to you but you clear dont know much about how things work here or you are such a fan boy that you are blind to it. Either way you have a lot to learn and you dont know what you are talking about.


Thanks for the laugh! Especially since you just admitted I was right! :D

[GFLPraxis]

Too early? Hah! They're making kids afraid of buying the new DS because the kids know the PSP might make thier DS uncool. In fact PSP probably made a massive dent in DS sales without even being out.


Not so, in fact, the Nintendo DS is the ALL TIME record holder, beating any console or handheld, for sales in the first two weeks in the UK. BTW, the UK launch was this month, so people knew all about the PSP.

The DS blew away the PSP sales in Japan, as well.

Too cheap? What modern console system has EVER not been a loss-leader? I think you have enough anti-proofs to break this without a sweat.


*raises hand*

GameCube.

It sold for $200, was almost equal to the XBox in graphics, yet was making a profit on every system while XBox was taking a loss.

Nintendo was losing a tiny bit when they first dropped it to $99, but that was a short period. For almost the entire period they were selling the GameCube they were making profits off the system and profits off the software.



Actually, by forcing users to buy a value pack, they're selling at least one game per system sold. Now if it isn't the game that kid wanted, too bad he'll buy it anyways PLUS whatever game he wanted at launch. Two games sold now. Oh and a UMD movie, which will give the kid a good taste of PSP movie coolness. And do really think they won't close the gap with all the games the kids are going to buy? Do you really think they're all going to buy PSPs and decide not to buy games? Oh but you argue that they will at a lower frequency... Not really. A kid that would have gotten X games on his DS will bug his parents for X games on his PSP, and his parents will cave-in X times. The kids are fighting this battle, not Sony. Sony just needs a PSP in the hands of as many kids as possible.

The value pack does not include a game. The Nintendo DS includes a game demo. And including a free game is a loss, not a gain, because it reduces the amount of games you sell.

As for buying X games, my parents would have said, "$50? No way. Extra chores for two weeks if you want a game that costs that much after I just bought you that new $250 console."


Obviously fail? No movies? Ever heard of SONY PICTURES? DISNEY? That guarantees a massive UMD movie library. Now you say KIDS are going to be able to warez movies and convert them and transfer them to their PSPs... Not really. And if a minority does, Sony isn't loosing money when people that warez everything don't buy UMD anyways. The VALUE PACK forced on every PSP user includes a movie. Guess what the kids are going to want?

I guess you COMPLETELY ignored my previous posts.

UMD movies: Less-than-TV-resolution, can only be played on a small screen, none of the extra features, and COST AS MUCH AS DVD'S.

DVD movies: TV resolution, extra features and soundtracks, cost the same amount as UMDs, but can be played on a full screen.

Who would buy a UMD when you can get a DVD at the same price?


As previously said, the PS2 is essentially End-Of-Lined. If they can transfer their success to the PSP to avoid kids from buying the GC or XBOX, fantastic. They need to look further than making a bit more a bit longer on the PS2. If they were going to make money on PS2 games, but instead lose a bit on the PSP introduction, GOOD. They're going to burn Nintendo, the undisputed handheld champion. Champion in everything untill Sony went after them. The hardware is a LOSS-LEADER for a reason. MARKET DOMINANCE is worth losing a few million dollars. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT BEING "IN THE RED". Obtaining TOTAL MARKET DOMINANCE for a few hundred million is NOTHING to Sony. If it takes one PSP generation to be profitable, SO BE IT. Were nintendo to say "give us x million dollars for the entire market.", Sony would say "where do we sign?".

But the PSP has yet to dominate over the DS in any of the regions it has been sold in.


Made irrelevent by above rebuttle. Kids know the DS is a gimick and Sony's PSP launch has damaged its success BIG-TIME. If nintendo loses the handheld battle in Japan, its automatically over in NA and EU. The DS is being converted to a PDA, and they've announced a new system in response to the PSP (no wonder, they know that the DS can't fend-off the PSP). DS owners are being antagonized on top of it. Nintendo should be holding on for its very-life right now.

You are an incredible fanboy. "The DS is a gimmick"? Yeah, right, you have no idea how great the touchscreen works. "Sony's PSP launch has damaged its success BIG-TIME"? LOL! Last I checked Nintendo had sold 3 times as many DS's as Sony has sold PSP. Kids don't think the DS is a gimmick- all the kids I know want a DS. I've had kids approach me when they see me with one wanting to know about it.

Have you seen last week's UK launch? In the first week, the DS sold more than ANY SYSTEM'S launch. Including GameCube, PS2, XBox, GBA, and GBA SP. And UK people know what the PSP is.

The DS is being converted to PDA and they've announced a new system? What have you been smoking? Nintendo has made no such announcement, and if they did I'd have another reason to be cheering- I've been with the DSLinux crew waiting for THEM to turn the DS into a PDA with WiFi and emulators capable of playing everything from the SNES back :)

"Know the DS can't fend off the PSP"?
:rolleyes:

"Announced a new system"? Again, what are you smoking? Nintendo has announced no new system. They have always said, "There will eventually be another GameBoy". They said that back at E3 2004. But at GDC Satoru Iwata said that the rumors there would be a new GameBoy this year are "a bunch of speculation". There have been no announcements.

Me, I'm predicting a new GameBoy next year. That or a GC portable.


Shut the fanboy act.

Ten years ago they showed us Nintendo can be broken by a superior offering from a company that can withstand being in the red for a bit.

Nintendo wasn't 'broken'.

The market share was split between SNES and Genesis. The next generation it was N64 and Playstation. No big difference.


I have nothing more to say, your analysis has so many massive-gaping-holes that I can walk right through it. Maybe it will "fail" according to your definition of "failure", but all I know is that Sony will end up with dominance or a massive share in a market it didn't previously have a presence in.

Dominance or massive market share is not assured. I've already stated the same thing; I don't get why you insane Sony fanboys are jumping all over me. My statement was that Sony was setting the PSP up to fail so that they could get marketshare and try to make a profit with the PSP2. Now I'm being mobbed by fifteen Sony fanboys saying the same thing, only throwing a fit because I used the word "failure" with their precious PSP. :rolleyes:

Sony is TRYING to gain a market share, by deliberately losing money on the PSP. The problem with that strategy is this; if they fail to gain a significant market share, then when time comes for a PSP2, it won't profit enough to make up for the loss and Sony's shareholders will be in pain.

You seem so sure that "OMG BETTER GRAPHIX!!!111" means the PSP will walk all over the DS, but a more economical price, backwards compatability, earlier launch, and good reputation are the very reasons the PS2 walked all over the XBox.

So whether Sony's strategy works or not is still to be determined. Sony looks right now to be set up for a significant, but not superior, market share with the DS. When the next GameBoy comes along we'll see what happens to the handheld battle.

Don't be such a fanboy.

[GFLPraxis]

How am I a fanboy if I haven't bough any game console in over 7 years? I simply saw a thread claiming the PSP can do harm to Sony, and read a rather irrational analysis.

On the contrary. The PSP will harm Sony, NO MATTER WHO WINS THE CONSOLE WAR. Because LOSING MONEY HARMS A COMPANY.

Now, if the PSP establishes a good market share, Sony has a chance of MAKING UP the lost money with the PSP2. If the PSP does not establish a good market share, then Sony loses completely.

But the initial launch of the PSP will do harm.


I don't even play videogames, but I just wanted to debate the OP's analysis. Defending the PSP in this case does not make me a "Sony biggot". In fact, I think the build quality of most of their products is **** these days. But I also realize that they have increadible power in the gaming industry.

I never claimed Nintendo was systematically doomed, don't put words in my mouth (biggot).

You misspelled bigot.

So, you never claimed Nintendo was doomed?

Quotes from you:
"(no wonder, they know that the DS can't fend-off the PSP)"
"the DS is a gimick"
"They're going to burn Nintendo"
"all I know is that Sony will end up with dominance or a massive share in a market it didn't previously have a presence in."
"Nintendo should be holding on for its very-life right now"

If you're going to be a fanboy, at least admit to it :rolleyes:



If you think any one company is invincible, the one incapable of proper reasoning is you.


Read your own posts. You seem to think Sony will magically walk all over Nintendo by selling the system at a loss. :rolleyes:

Nintendo WILL lose market share. That's a given. There's nowhere to go but down. But whether the PSP will gain a MAJORITY market share is still to be determined.

[ChrisBrightwell]

[...] Uploading a movie that you already bought to your PSP is hardly warez (you bought it afterall). [...]The act of copying an encrypted (read: commercial) DVD to your computer for transport to your PSP, though, is a violation of the DMCA.

The same DMCA that Sony has been defending from the beginning.

[ChrisBrightwell]

Oh yeah. Over 1m units sold in Japan [...]
The DS has more than 4m sold prior to the EU launch.

Sony will not loose [sic] out here.Maybe not, but they're trying to do something that no one has done in more than twenty years -- beat Nintendo's handheld(s).

[combatcolin]

GLF PRAXIS

man look, keep your posts little bit smaller :D

No one wants to read for 2 pages a response that could be done in a 4 line paragraph.

Just out of intrest, how many keyboards do you go through each year? ;)

[GFLPraxis]

GLF PRAXIS

man look, keep your posts little bit smaller :D

No one wants to read for 2 pages a response that could be done in a 4 line paragraph.

Sorry, I get in a habit of it. I just type like nuts :D 100WPM does that to you.



Just out of intrest, how many keyboards do you go through each year? ;)


I actually almost never replace my keyboards. Although I need to fix my Pismo, I was playing an emulator in between classes and my finger went under a key and *bing* sent it flying...

Oh, and there was that one time my mother was over with some wine and spilled it all over the keyboard :rolleyes: lol :)

I've actually got a SONY Keyboard on my PC here (ironic, no?) and the build quality is really good, never had a problem despite having well over 10,000 collective posts between the forums I go to.

[ZildjianKX]

The act of copying an encrypted (read: commercial) DVD to your computer for transport to your PSP, though, is a violation of the DMCA.

The same DMCA that Sony has been defending from the beginning.

Actually I mentioned that on the first page :)

Well, technically from the DMCA it is illegal to circumvent the encryption on a DVD, but at the same time it's legal to back up a movie for fair use (Sony betamax cases)... so it's really a catch-22 since the DMCA is conflicting with the other law.

[ZildjianKX]

Maybe not, but they're trying to do something that no one has done in more than twenty years -- beat Nintendo's handheld(s).

I personally own every handheld made to date, from the Gameboy Light, Atari Lynx, Turbo Express, NGP, etc... and I don't think I've ever been this excited about a new handheld coming out.

The last few years for handhelds has been pretty crappy. The GBA has ruled the scene with both mediocre games and SNES ports. It's great to see the big N get some competition so they increase the quality of their games library.

[Timelessblur]

Not so, in fact....*Not knowing what he is talking about.


GFLPraxis just give up. You pretty clearly dont know what you are talking about. A product does NOT have to make money to succeeded. To succeed it ONLY has to accoplish the goal it set out to make.

I guess from reading you post you do know much about econimic or the bunisses world. You think it only a success if it makes money and that is where you are wrong. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO MAKE MONEY TO succeed.

This is going ot me my last post in dealing with you on this because it is impossible to agure or use logic with some one who does not know what he he talking about. Go read stuff up on this. To succeed you only need to accoplish you goal. bye you argument me going to collage is a failure because I am loosing money by attending it. It give me 0 money in return. I dont think it a failure because I am doing it for long term and I have set a goal of my sellf there. By you argumnet me attending collage is conisider a failure until I first pay off how much it costed me. Then make more money then what I lost by not working during the time. To me it not because I accoblistion my goals. I making 0 money heck I loosing over 15K a year by doing it (plus anohter 100K because it taking me an extra 2 years to finish my degree.)

Oh well it impossble to argue with some one who blant lack of knowleged is so bad that he just knows enough to think he knows it all.

[GFLPraxis]

GFLPraxis just give up. You pretty clearly dont know what you are talking about. A product does NOT have to make money to succeeded. To succeed it ONLY has to accoplish the goal it set out to make.

I guess from reading you post you do know much about econimic or the bunisses world. You think it only a success if it makes money and that is where you are wrong. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO MAKE MONEY TO succeed.

But at some point that goal HAS TO EQUATE to making money.

For example, the XBox 1 can lose money to accomplish the goal of gaining market share ON THE CONDITION that the XBox 2 can use that market share to make money!

If the PSP is losing money, it IS A FAILURE, UNTIL the moment that the PSP2 comes out and makes a big enough profit to account for the loss. *UNTIL THEN*, it is losing money, and therefore hurting stock.

Get this through your head.

Declaring that your goal is not to make money does not magically mean that the product will make your company a success.


This is going ot me my last post in dealing with you on this because it is impossible to agure or use logic with some one who does not know what he he talking about.

Yes, I know the feeling quite well after talking to you.


Go read stuff up on this. To succeed you only need to accoplish you goal.

The goal has to in some way make money at some point, though, in the corporate world. Thinking otherwise is downright STUPID.


bye you argument me going to collage is a failure because I am loosing money by attending it. It give me 0 money in return. I dont think it a failure because I am doing it for long term and I have set a goal of my sellf there. By you argumnet me attending collage is conisider a failure until I first pay off how much it costed me. Then make more money then what I lost by not working during the time. To me it not because I accoblistion my goals. I making 0 money heck I loosing over 15K a year by doing it (plus anohter 100K because it taking me an extra 2 years to finish my degree.)

That is the dumbest example I have heard.

The goal of going to college (not collage) is to get a good degree so you can MAKE MONEY afterward.


Just like the ABSOLUTE GOAL OF A BUSINESS is to MAKE MONEY.
Therefore, if you're losing money, you are not accomplishing that goal.

I think you're just not reading my post and assuming you get what I'm saying :rolleyes:


Let me explain it ALL OVER AGAIN.


Sony sells PSP at a loss.
Therefore, on a temporary basis, the PSP is failing to make money and HURTING SONY.
Sony takes a considerable loss, in exchange for market share.
Sony then, after taking a considerable loss and failing to make money with the PSP, launches the PSP2 in an attempt to make money off the market share gained by the PSP.

If Sony succeedes, they make money, and the PSP2 is marked down as a success. If Sony fails, then they lose the market share they gained with the PSP.

It's a gamble; throw away your profits for system 1 to attempt to make bigger profits on system 2, but if system 2 fails, you die hideously, while if it succeeds, the payoff is big.

GET IT NOW? Geez.

You seem to be obsessed that losing money /= being harmed for a company. If the PSP makes a loss, IT HURTS SONY. Sony is gambling that, by taking the loss on the PSP, they'll MAKE UP FOR IT WITH THE PSP2.

I suspect you're trying to say the same thing, but we're just bickering on the wording, because you object to me using the word "failure" :rolleyes:

Oh well it impossble to argue with some one who blant lack of knowleged is so bad that he just knows enough to think he knows it all.


Yeah, I know, it's quite tough. You should try it sometime.

[imac_japan]

DS and PSP sales in japan are steady, PSP has sold 100 000 more units this year, but if you account the sales of 2004 also. DS have 1 000 000 more units sold over PSP.

Once again, you thinking like a consumer, this sales debate was put to an end previously by another poster. Sales do no necessarily equate to success in profitability.

Are you for real ???? You sound like an upset kid who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas....Dude, I did my research and the PSP is selling better than the DS in Japan....I suggest that before you flame me - Do the research....The DS and PSP came out about the same time in Japan (I think it was 10 days earlier) and the PSP is flying off the selves.

[manicdvln]

Are you for real ???? You sound like an upset kid who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas....Dude, I did my research and the PSP is selling better than the DS in Japan....I suggest that before you flame me - Do the research....The DS and PSP came out about the same time in Japan (I think it was 10 days earlier) and the PSP is flying off the selves.

1. In Japan, DS sold 500 000 in 4 days. Yes, PSP came around 1 and half week later with a supply of only 200 000, in which 180 000 were sold the first week.

2. DS supply is able to sustain the demand, while PSP is in shortage.

Hence, DS overall sales are higher than PSP.

Media Create sales numbers:

2004 to 2005 till march 6th

Hardware
1. PlayStation 2 - 44,378 - (476,469)
2. PSP - 41,867 - (442,536) - [924,788]
3. Nintendo DS - 26,761 - (354,803) - [1,850,399]
4. Game Boy Advance SP - 11,124 - (159,850)
5. GameCube - 3,351 - (58,779)
6. Game Boy Advance - 341 - (4,762)
7. Xbox - 245 - (4,228)

[GFLPraxis]

Are you for real ???? You sound like an upset kid who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas....Dude, I did my research and the PSP is selling better than the DS in Japan....I suggest that before you flame me - Do the research....The DS and PSP came out about the same time in Japan (I think it was 10 days earlier) and the PSP is flying off the selves.

The PSP has been selling better in the last two weeks, the DS has much higher overall sales. And BTW, this quote is STRAIGHT from the Macrumors rules.

[combatcolin]

People shouldn't dismiss the DS, Nintendo have decades of experience in maing hand held games that sell well.

And while the UMD movie aspect of the PSP is of course vastly inferier to DVD, there is a strange appeal to it....

Of course if i was a few years younger and didn't have a mortgage
(UK MORTGAGE = VERY EXPENSIVE!! :( ) i would have bought one or the other by now.

Will have to wait untill i play on a PSP, but the GBA playback on the DS is tempting for me.

[wrldwzrd89]

Sheesh. People in this thread sure have strong opinions.

I think that the PSP is a gamble by Sony to gain market share. It is clearly a powerful handheld - whether it's more powerful than the Nintendo DS is a fruitless debate (read: let's not go there). Unfortunately, Sony made the PSP so powerful that they can't charge a reasonable price for it and still make money - a classic case of a system ahead of its time. How much market share Sony gets from the PSP depends on the quality/quantity of the games available and the media center features, neither of which are in good shape right now. Personally, I think the PSP is a good idea - Sony just released it too early.

[GFLPraxis]

Sheesh. People in this thread sure have strong opinions.

I think that the PSP is a gamble by Sony to gain market share. It is clearly a powerful handheld - whether it's more powerful than the Nintendo DS is a fruitless debate (read: let's not go there). Unfortunately, Sony made the PSP so powerful that they can't charge a reasonable price for it and still make money - a classic case of a system ahead of its time. How much market share Sony gets from the PSP depends on the quality/quantity of the games available and the media center features, neither of which are in good shape right now. Personally, I think the PSP is a good idea - Sony just released it too early.

Yeah, if the PSP had been released a year later, it could have been $150 and had a much higher capacity battery. And they wouldn't be having these shortages.

The DS would have sold, but then when the PSP comes out people have had their DS's for a while and are ready for a new system.

[imac_japan]

Hence, DS overall sales are higher than PSP.

I was talking about supply and demand !! Macdavin or whatever you name is...You mentioned this in your post (where you flamed me)...The PSP is more popular - but Sony doesn't have the stocks....DS has sold more because they have more stock but the PSP is more popular.....

[manicdvln]

Hence, DS overall sales are higher than PSP.

I was talking about supply and demand !! Macdavin or whatever you name is...You mentioned this in your post (where you flamed me)...The PSP is more popular - but Sony doesn't have the stocks....DS has sold more because they have more stock but the PSP is more popular.....

Learn to write in proper english, get back to me.

[GFLPraxis]

Learn to write in proper english, get back to me.

Be a little understanding, the guy is in Japan.

Hence, DS overall sales are higher than PSP.

I was talking about supply and demand !! Macdavin or whatever you name is...You mentioned this in your post (where you flamed me)...The PSP is more popular - but Sony doesn't have the stocks....DS has sold more because they have more stock but the PSP is more popular.....

This is a bit silly. How do you know the PSP is more popular when its being outsold 4 to one? And btw, you're accusing him of flaming you...in response to the post where you called him an idiot. You shouldn't be talking :p

It seems to me that if the PSP were oh so much more popular people wouldn't be buying DS's...

[imac_japan]

This is a bit silly. How do you know the PSP is more popular when its being outsold 4 to one?

I know its abit silly....Yes - my written English isn't so good anymore - Ive been in Japan for 6 years.....Well the reason that I know the PSP is more popular than the DS is I read the mags in Japan, talk to people, etc etc etc.......Its difficult to buy one now so the games are really selling like hot cakes.....

[ZildjianKX]

I know its abit silly....Yes - my written English isn't so good anymore - Ive been in Japan for 6 years.....Well the reason that I know the PSP is more popular than the DS is I read the mags in Japan, talk to people, etc etc etc.......Its difficult to buy one now so the games are really selling like hot cakes.....

You never see PSP games on the gaming charts in Japan though... but you see DS games, it's weird.

[Vader]

Well, I am going to love and cherish my PSP when it comes!

[absolutmp5]

sonys inclusion into the handheld market is marked upon the fact that the number one selling video game console is the ....game boy. They will at least cut into that market share and hurt nintendo in some way. Nintendo in a sense has lost out completely and is trying to milk their liscenses for all their worth, which they are very original and effective at. If you look at all the systems and then their target demographic you will see trends established. Sony has literraly bitch slapped nintendo and xbox combined nearly twice over in terms of the ps2's market share. Take into consideration that this is the first iteration of the psp and things wont go according to plan all the time, but what sony knows best is how to put their foothold in a new market and establish a loyal fan base. Though i wont see the psp dishing much damage in the mp3 market with competitors like the ipod and barely much damage into the niche portable media center market that is still in its infancy the only place really they can do much of anything is gaming. IF THE PSP HAD A MICRO HARDRIVE AND DIDN"T FORCE USERS TO USE SOME OF SONY"S SERVICES FOR ITS MEDIA PURPOSES SONY COULD HAVE A even soon to be bigger hit.

[neoelectronaut]

I've yet to see why anyone thinks the PSP looks "sexy". The damn thing is like 4 feet long, for one. Second, it just looks like something out of the 80s; there about 30 buttons on the face of the thing...

And I'm gonna say it again. If I were a PS2 fan, why would I want to spend $250 on a handheld that plays the games that I could get at home? Why would I want to rebuy all the games I already own just so I could play them on the go?

I'd rather have to separate experiences for portables and consoles--not the same.

[combatcolin]

I've yet to see why anyone thinks the PSP looks "sexy". The damn thing is like 4 feet long, for one. Second, it just looks like something out of the 80s; there about 30 buttons on the face of the thing...

And I'm gonna say it again. If I were a PS2 fan, why would I want to spend $250 on a handheld that plays the games that I could get at home? Why would I want to rebuy all the games I already own just so I could play them on the go?

I'd rather have to separate experiences for portables and consoles--not the same.

4 Feet long... :cool:

Made me laugh.

[neoelectronaut]

4 Feet long... :cool:

Made me laugh.

:D Then my task has been completed.

[clayj]

I've yet to see why anyone thinks the PSP looks "sexy". The damn thing is like 4 feet long, for one. Second, it just looks like something out of the 80s; there about 30 buttons on the face of the thing...

And I'm gonna say it again. If I were a PS2 fan, why would I want to spend $250 on a handheld that plays the games that I could get at home? Why would I want to rebuy all the games I already own just so I could play them on the go?

I'd rather have to separate experiences for portables and consoles--not the same.It's a hell of a lot sexier than the DS... I messed around with one at Best Buy last week. What a kludge. It might be functional, but the DS is fugly.

[Richter]

the fact that PSP games are the same price as console games ($40-50) is a huge turnoff

[Phobophobia]

Now, as I said, they could be pulling an XBox- selling with the intention of getting a loss, just to get the console out the door. If so, it is a brilliant move, assuming Sony has the money to cover for the losses.

Having to lose money on flagship products is a sign of desperation--not brilliance.

[GFLPraxis]

It's a hell of a lot sexier than the DS... I messed around with one at Best Buy last week. What a kludge. It might be functional, but the DS is fugly.

The ones at best buy are clamped down, you can't get a feel for how light/thin it is or how it looks with all that stuff covering half of it..

[edesignuk]

Maybe not, but they're trying to do something that no one has done in more than twenty years -- beat Nintendo's handheld(s).When they released the PlayStation, no one had ever hurt Nintendo/Sega. Look what happened.

[neoelectronaut]

When they released the PlayStation, no one had ever hurt Nintendo/Sega. Look what happened.

Nintendo and Sega also got cocky. They figured that no matter what they put out people would buy it. Now Sega's hardware is completely gone and Nintendo is doing worse than they should be.

I believe perhaps that Sony is also getting cocky--gaining a "nobody can beat us" attitude. I expect them to make some mistakes in the near future.

[zelmo]

Personally, I like the fact that the PSP is larger. One of the reasons I don't play my GBA SP as much anymore is the small screen - it's hard on my 43 year old eyeballs. Having a 4" screen to play games on a handheld is niiiice.
Of course, I still think I'll be picking up a DS sooner or later.

I don't get all the hating going on with PSP v. DS, PS2 v. XB v. GC, et al. So many choices...why do people have to take sides? It's all good. What a great time to be a gamer!

[jaseone]

Nintendo has stated that the DS isn't the successor to the GBA SP so I don't think it is even fair to compare the PSP to the DS and WTF does it matter anyay?

Nintendo will carry on creating games that are fun to play and Sony will carry on games that people think are fun to play as everyone thinks they are cool so they keep playing them. I realize that is an over-generalization and there are exceptions but really think about it for a moment, if what everyone else said didn't matter or you hadn't even heard what they said then would you still be playing the games that you are today?

The same can be said about anything else like music or movie taste, I often stop and realize that I don't actually like something that I thought I did just because someone else liked it.

[wrldwzrd89]

Nintendo has stated that the DS isn't the successor to the GBA SP so I don't think it is even fair to compare the PSP to the DS and WTF does it matter anyay?

Nintendo will carry on creating games that are fun to play and Sony will carry on games that people think are fun to play as everyone thinks they are cool so they keep playing them. I realize that is an over-generalization and there are exceptions but really think about it for a moment, if what everyone else said didn't matter or you hadn't even heard what they said then would you still be playing the games that you are today?

The same can be said about anything else like music or movie taste, I often stop and realize that I don't actually like something that I thought I did just because someone else liked it.
Not to mention that this whole PSP vs. DS thing is off-topic anyway. Just to reiterate: Sony had a good idea when they thought of the PSP. They just didn't execute it very well and released it too early to truly be successful, IMO.

[combatcolin]

The most surpriseing aspect of the whole PSP Vs DS argument is how long its taken Sony to come up with a stick to try and beat Nintendo with.

I'm sure everyone in this post has red the famous story of when the creator of the Walkman berated his staff about the Game Boy, saying that this should be a Sony product.

Sony have been quietly getting more and more narked off since 1989...

[eroda]

well psp has better games liek gt3 and games based off of japanese anime like bleach and naruto

[johnnyjibbs]

When the PS2 came out, there was concern that people were buying the machine as a cheap DVD player (which was what was happening in Japan) and, not buying any PS2 games, or generating any profit for Sony. Of course they had their PS1 games to fall back on too. This wasn't helped by the fact that there wasn't a PS2 game worth buying at that point (some would say that's not far off the truth now ;) :p).

But look at the PS2 now. You can hardly call it a failure! The same will probably be true of the PSP, although the DS is where my money will be going.

[MacNoobie]

Honestly most anything video game related (hardware) is being sold at a loss the Xbox is at a loss, the PS2 is at a loss, the GC I'm fairly sure is at a loss. The only reason why these corporate entities sell them at a loss is obviously because of the software sales they generate, the more they sell the more compensation they get for selling the hardware at a loss, take into account also the market place is a competitive one it really adds up. Also piracy is something to consider, the companies really go after people that pirate (maybe not to the extent of the RIAA or MPAA) but that’s how sales are made and the more piracy goes on the more the company really does loose out on the loss of both the hardware and software.
The PSP looks impressive but honestly it still sucks in my eyes, sure its portable and fairly powerful and you can do a lot with it but the 50 dollars for a game on it and its on those non standard UMD's as well as the memory sticks. I'd have to say I'm going to pass on it but my friends seem to be going stir crazy over it.

Sony in the long run will make money off it though it’s at a loss and because people see the Sony name on it they'll buy it and the 50 dollar games because it’s the latest and greatest craze.

Thomas Z

[wrldwzrd89]

Honestly most anything video game related (hardware) is being sold at a loss the Xbox is at a loss, the PS2 is at a loss, the GC I'm fairly sure is at a loss. The only reason why these corporate entities sell them at a loss is obviously because of the software sales they generate, the more they sell the more compensation they get for selling the hardware at a loss, take into account also the market place is a competitive one it really adds up. Also piracy is something to consider, the companies really go after people that pirate (maybe not to the extent of the RIAA or MPAA) but that’s how sales are made and the more piracy goes on the more the company really does loose out on the loss of both the hardware and software.
The PSP looks impressive but honestly it still sucks in my eyes, sure its portable and fairly powerful and you can do a lot with it but the 50 dollars for a game on it and its on those non standard UMD's as well as the memory sticks. I'd have to say I'm going to pass on it but my friends seem to be going stir crazy over it.

Sony in the long run will make money off it though it’s at a loss and because people see the Sony name on it they'll buy it and the 50 dollar games because it’s the latest and greatest craze.

Thomas Z
My understanding is that the GameCube was NOT sold at a loss at first. It may have been sold at a loss after price cuts (or might be sold now at a loss), but it wasn't initially. I never got in on the whole Sony Playstation thing - in fact, I've always been a Nintendo person. I'm skipping the PSP; if I get anything, it'll be a DS.

[ChrisBrightwell]

Honestly most anything video game related (hardware) is being sold at a loss the Xbox is at a loss, the PS2 is at a loss, the GC I'm fairly sure is at a loss. [...]
I could be mistaken, but here goes ...

When the GC launched Nintendo was actually making a profit on the hardware, which is basically unheard of in console gaming. They continued to make a profit until they dropped the price to $99, at which point they were losing a very small percentage on each sale, but were easily making it up in the 2-3 games that were bought alongside the hardware. Now, though, even at $99, every GC is sold at a profit.

I've read somewhere (don't have a link handy) that Nintendo has made almost as much money on Gamecube hardware as Sony has made on PS2 hardware, despite the massive difference in total units sold. That's *huge* for Nintendo and should be scaring the hell out of the competition.

[risc]

But who made more money on software? :rolleyes:

Oh well only a few hours until the US release of the PSP, it's going to be interesting watching a bunch of people eating their words once they actually get to use one.

[GFLPraxis]

But who made more money on software? :rolleyes:

Oh well only a few hours until the US release of the PSP, it's going to be interesting watching a bunch of people eating their words once they actually get to use one.

Give it a week. The first week will be, "OMG GOOD GRAFIX!!!!". Then after that wears off we'll get the problems and the word-eating :D

[GFLPraxis]

I could be mistaken, but here goes ...

When the GC launched Nintendo was actually making a profit on the hardware, which is basically unheard of in console gaming. They continued to make a profit until they dropped the price to $99, at which point they were losing a very small percentage on each sale, but were easily making it up in the 2-3 games that were bought alongside the hardware. Now, though, even at $99, every GC is sold at a profit.

I've read somewhere (don't have a link handy) that Nintendo has made almost as much money on Gamecube hardware as Sony has made on PS2 hardware, despite the massive difference in total units sold. That's *huge* for Nintendo and should be scaring the hell out of the competition.

Actually, you're right. I remember that clearly. It's quite sad, actually.

The XBox can render 15 million polygons per second, the GameCube 13 million. They were launched 3 days apart. The GameCube sold for $200, the XBox $300. Yet, the GC (selling for $100 less) was making a profit on every system sold while the XBox took a loss on every system sold.


I suspect that's why MS is going with IBM and ATi instead of Intel and NVidia this time around :D


But yeah. GC was making a profit on every one they sold. When they originally dropped to $99 was the first quarter they took a loss on hardware. They're making a profit again now.

I remember seeing some profit sheets. Sony was less than 10% ahead of Nintendo in profits despite having sold way more, because Nintendo profited on both hardware and software while Sony only profited on software and lost money on hardware.

MS was in the negative :D Though I guess that was their goal...

[risc]

Give it a week. The first week will be, "OMG GOOD GRAFIX!!!!". Then after that wears off we'll get the problems and the word-eating :D

You mean like all the people who actually own PSPs and have been complaining about how bad they are on this website? From what I can tell the only people who have problems with the PSP are those who haven't used one. ;)

[Vader]

I will tell you if it is good or not, I will be getting it tomorrow!

[risc]

I will tell you if it is good or not, I will be getting it tomorrow!

I've owned a PSP for months and I can tell you now it doesn't matter what you think of the PSP people who haven't used it and for some reason hate it won't be changing their minds. If this forum has taught me anything it has taught me that. ;)

/me looks at his PSP - still kicks a$$!

[Vader]

I've owned a PSP for months and I can tell you now it doesn't matter what you think of the PSP people who haven't used it and for some reason hate it won't be changing their minds. If this forum has taught me anything it has taught me that. ;)

/me looks at his PSP - still kicks a$$!
Glad to hear that, since I am shelling out $300 for it(with Ridge Racer)!

[risc]

Glad to hear that, since I am shelling out $300 for it(with Ridge Racer)!

I've got my PSP here at work with me today, everytime I'm not sitting in front of a server I'm playing Ridge Racers (wonder why they changed the name?) it's a great game, I also really like Lumines, and Namco Museum is kick ass if you don't mind Japanese imports.

[Vader]

Awesome!

[combatcolin]

Actually, you're right. I remember that clearly. It's quite sad, actually.

The XBox can render 15 million polygons per second, the GameCube 13 million. They were launched 3 days apart. The GameCube sold for $200, the XBox $300. Yet, the GC (selling for $100 less) was making a profit on every system sold while the XBox took a loss on every system sold.


I suspect that's why MS is going with IBM and ATi instead of Intel and NVidia this time around :D


But yeah. GC was making a profit on every one they sold. When they originally dropped to $99 was the first quarter they took a loss on hardware. They're making a profit again now.

I remember seeing some profit sheets. Sony was less than 10% ahead of Nintendo in profits despite having sold way more, because Nintendo profited on both hardware and software while Sony only profited on software and lost money on hardware.

MS was in the negative :D Though I guess that was their goal...

Nintendo had time and enginering excellence on their side.

Microsoft had bugger all time because of the recent launch of the PS2 and GC and simply bought computer parts off the shelf and slightly tweaked them.

Microsoft have learned there lesson the hard way.

[risc]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Shortys4everyone/zlaunc2.gif

LOL

[manicdvln]

That gif animation is a fake, ppl making a parody with DS cause of PSP UMD holding latch being fault, which makes UMD eject flying out of the holder.

Anyways, keep flamebait out of threads plz. No need for fanboyism.

[risc]

I think we all know it's fake, I just posted it because it's funny.

What's also funny is that people now know that the UMD in the PSP wont come out in normal use, and the latch isn't at fault but some people still seem to think it's so. ;)

[Vader]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Shortys4everyone/zlaunc2.gif

LOL
That is funny!

[Vader]

I've got my PSP here at work with me today, everytime I'm not sitting in front of a server I'm playing Ridge Racers (wonder why they changed the name?) it's a great game, I also really like Lumines, and Namco Museum is kick ass if you don't mind Japanese imports.
I got Ridge Racers today, and it is so stinkin' awesome!

[Otto Rehhagel]

Do you think the PSP launch lived up to its hype? I am still patient to see what will happen in the next few days, weeks. I visited the local Best Buy, Gamestop, and EBGames, and they all had 30 units or more.

The Best Buy I visited had a guy at a "PSP stand" demonstrating the PSP's ability to play Spiderman 2. The picture looks beautiful, (not referring to my mirror-like reflection :D ). The speakers were not loud at all (volume max) The employee said that the PSP is meant to be used with a headset. :confused: . In short, he seemed rather desperate to get me interested.

When I asked the guys at the gamestop about dead pixels/return policy, they were quick to tell me that 10% of all PSPs will have dead pixels (duh) and unless I have "like 20" that I should just learn to get used to them. They had 40 PSPs stock. The same guy told me last week that they would run out launch day, and I would have to wait 1+ weeks after for a new shipment. This guy alone made me rethink a possible PSP purchase.

With lower demand in the US, the PSP may be coming to Europe sooner than later. Don't know if this is good or bad news.

Many people in the stores I visited had no idead the PSP existed.

I found this link showing other people's PSP launch experiences.

PSP Launch: Hot or Not? (http://psp.ign.com/articles/599/599156p1.html?fromint=1)

[risc]

Quoting GameSpot

...

The Sony rep suggested that PSP owners who encounter the pixel issue should try the device "for a week or two" to see if it continues to bother them. "If you find the spots are interfering with gameplay/video viewing during this period, we will support the various elements of [the PSP] warranty," the rep said. Each PSP comes with a one-year limited warranty, which is on page 125 of the PSP manual. If a PSP is "determined to be defective" by SCEA, the company will see to the "repair or replacement of this product [the PSP] with a new or refurbished product at SCEA's option."

According to a technical support associate contacted by GameSpot, PSP owners who encounter a persistent and aggravating dead-pixel issue should contact SCEA's customer service line (1-800-345-7669) for instructions on how to exchange their unit after a week or two of using the unit. "We will work with you," he assured. The associate said the process would work much like exchanging PlayStation 2s that suffer from the dreaded "Disc Read Error" problem: Gamers will mail their PSPs in to SCEA and receive units with new screens. The associate was unsure if customers would receive an all-new unit or their old unit with a new LCD screen.

...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/25/news_6121092.html

[risc]

I got Ridge Racers today, and it is so stinkin' awesome!

Yeah it's a kick a$$ game, I just ordered the US versions of Tiger Woods and Tony Hawk for my Japanese PSP, can't wait for delivery. When I see the review for EAs FIFA for PSP I'll grab that too I think. I'm about to chuck my XBox on EBay and leave all my console gaming to the PSP.

[shortyjj]

When did everybody get Ridge Racers? My impression is that none of the retailers in the DC area have gotten it yet - had to settle for WipeOut pure.

Initial coverage indicates that the PSP isn't selling well at all:

http://psp.ign.com/articles/599/599156p1.html

Could Nintendo release info on the GBA's successor at E3 and ruin any chances for the PSP catching on? Will it turn into another Dreamcast? "Wow, the DC looks like... but I'm waiting for PS2."

[ReanimationLP]

Hate to agree with you, but Sony really lacks it in the quality of their consoles at times. Look at all the damn revisions to the PS2 console (more than 1 a year, they are like on revision 8). I may be forced to buy an extended warranty from EB because I just know a bug fixed model might come out later.

They're on Revision 12 now, but whos counting :p

[ZildjianKX]

They're on Revision 12 now, but whos counting :p

Wow, really revision 12? Does that count the PSTwo?