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discofuel
May 31, 2011, 03:21 PM
I'd have never dreamed of upgrading Windows, but is there any benefit of doing a fresh install of Lion vs upgrading SL?



lewis82
May 31, 2011, 03:41 PM
Upgrading from Leopard to Snow Lep didn't cause me any problems. What I'll do is backup twice (Time Machine plus a whole, bootable backup just in case) and upgrade. If I have problems I can erase the disk and install 10.7 from scratch.

Jyby
May 31, 2011, 06:46 PM
I would anticipate getting a disc copy of Lion next week and do a Fresh install. Upgrades can always lead to files that don't belong... My experience with upgrades has left me with tons of junk on my computer. A fresh install gave me an opportunity to ironically start fresh.

Nobita
May 31, 2011, 08:15 PM
I upgraded leopard to SL and tiger to SL without any hitches.

A bit of pain for tiger since it doesn't have time machine back then.

In both cases they feel faster (much faster with leopard to SL, less so with tiger).

I'm not sure if Lion is the same.

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 08:20 PM
I would anticipate getting a disc copy of Lion next week and do a Fresh install. Upgrades can always lead to files that don't belong... My experience with upgrades has left me with tons of junk on my computer. A fresh install gave me an opportunity to ironically start fresh.

That was what i was wondering. Actually I've only just reformatted my computer. Took me 2 solid days to install all my software and audio plugins. Not really looking forward to doing that again!

Nobita
May 31, 2011, 08:22 PM
That was what i was wondering. Actually I've only just reformatted my computer. Took me 2 solid days to install all my software and audio plugins. Not really looking forward to doing that again!

How did that go for you? Do you feel your machine any faster? I used to do that with Windows from time to time but I gave that up when I switched.

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 08:34 PM
Well something had happened to my system and I was getting major problems. Most likely due to fragmentation and lack of free space as I only had 2GB free! I moved all my data onto an external and reformatted my internal just for system.

It completely transformed my iMac. It feels like brand new now!

Nobita
May 31, 2011, 08:39 PM
Well something had happened to my system and I was getting major problems. Most likely due to fragmentation and lack of free space as I only had 2GB free! I moved all my data onto an external and reformatted my internal just for system.

It completely transformed my iMac. It feels like brand new now!

Ah... I see... It might not be entirely because you formatted the drive that it got faster, it might even be because you freed the space as well. Rule of thumb is you should have about 10-15% of your drive free for swapping (store apps when your RAM is not enough).

At any rate I don't think you need to do fresh install for lion. Just keep some free space around :)

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 08:47 PM
Yup, although even after transferring all my data to my external and deleting it from the internal performance didn't improve.

Installing an SSD this week so performance is about to take another leap forward :D

Actually I'll probably wait to see how Lion shapes up before upgrading my system.

Nobita
May 31, 2011, 08:50 PM
Yup, although even after transferring all my data to my external and deleting it from the internal performance didn't improve.

Installing an SSD this week so performance is about to take another leap forward :D

Actually I'll probably wait to see how Lion shapes up before upgrading my system.

Ow, I see! The problem for me is just safari is too slow and gives me a lot of spinning wheels! Other than than my 2008 macbook is really really good :)

I might be upgrading to SSD as well when 320GB does not burn my pocket :) it must be a bit difficult upgrading to SSD on an iMac.

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 08:57 PM
You could replace the optical drive with an 80GB SSD for $179 at Amazon and then have all your data on your current HDD. That's what I'm doing with my iMac. Makes a huge difference keeping system and data on separate drives.

Looks fairly advanced on the iMac but lots of guides here. MB is so easy!

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 09:00 PM
I just ordered this one (http://www.amazon.com/Intel-SATA-2-5-Inch-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B004U8ZHY2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1306893588&sr=8-2) :)

Nobita
May 31, 2011, 09:03 PM
Yeah I heard about that a while back. I don't know if I have the courage to do it... On the other hand I still use my dvd drive quite often too for movies and other stuff.

Is this (http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Compatible-MACBOOK-9-5mm-high-Interface/dp/B004FM4UGE/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1306893606&sr=8-2-fkmr2) what you bought ?

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 09:10 PM
I just upgraded my MBP HDD to a 500TB 7200 RPM and added 8GB RAM. I was worried about doing it myself but it was so easy and took less than 10 mins! Replacing the optical drive might be a bit more work but probably still very easy.

I actually bought this caddy (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300532945500&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123) for my iMac on the recommendation of a forum member here, but you might need a specific size for the MB/MBP.

And then this enclosure (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011Z2OTI) for my optical drive. $5.39!

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 09:12 PM
500GB i mean. 500TB i wish :D

Nobita
May 31, 2011, 09:14 PM
I swapped out my hard drive before, that was easy. What I haven't done is the optical drive. But I still need the optical drive nevertheless...

discofuel
May 31, 2011, 09:15 PM
True - I wouldn't want to lose the optical drive on my MBP

slb
May 31, 2011, 11:17 PM
I'd have never dreamed of upgrading Windows, but is there any benefit of doing a fresh install of Lion vs upgrading SL?

Upgrading does what was once called Archive and Install, which backs up the existing system, installs a fresh copy, and imports your user account into the new installation. So it's already a fresh install.

discofuel
Jun 1, 2011, 12:38 AM
Ok great - where does it archive the old system to so I can delete the files?

satcomer
Jun 1, 2011, 12:46 AM
Archive & install wasn't on 10.6.x. You best bet would be get an external firewire 800 (or the fastest port on you current Mac) and clone to it using something like Carbon Copy Cloner (http://www.bombich.com/). Then do a fresh install and during the install it will launch Migration Assistant. Then with the clone attached import the data you want (stay away from networking installs because those older Airport settings always gets messed up). Import the programs, pictures, music, documents, etc. you want and then rock on.

If it doesn't as planned you could always boot back to cloned external. OS X will let you that.

Mal
Jun 1, 2011, 01:09 PM
Ok great - where does it archive the old system to so I can delete the files?

10.6 actually used a modified version of the same concept. Instead of moving the files to a "Previous Systems" folder like in 10.5 and earlier, though, it simply deletes them. Thus, just running the standard install will give you basically the same result, without needing to delete any files afterwards.

jW

baryon
Jun 1, 2011, 01:23 PM
What if I have bugs in my current Snow Leopard system, such as my MacBook Pro's backlight dimming then coming back on for no reason on its own (it should stay dimmed if I don't use the computer for a few minutes). Would such bugs risk affecting the Lion install?

I have so much stuff on my computer and I simply don't know what to delete... It seems to me that hard drives fill up no matter what, and it's very hard to keep track of what exactly it is that's eating up the space.

I don't want to have to reinstall all my preference panes, plugins, applications, settings, Safari extensions, re-teach Safari all my logins and passwords, widgets, hardware drivers, WiFi passwords, etc...

It took such a long time to get the system to be perfectly the way I like it, I would hate to have to start over again.

I use a Time Machine backup and I think I'll just upgrade to Lion. If something's wrong or too slow, I can always go back to Snow Leopard with Time Machine or I could do a fresh install...

Nobita
Jun 1, 2011, 06:22 PM
What if I have bugs in my current Snow Leopard system, such as my MacBook Pro's backlight dimming then coming back on for no reason on its own (it should stay dimmed if I don't use the computer for a few minutes). Would such bugs risk affecting the Lion install?

I have so much stuff on my computer and I simply don't know what to delete... It seems to me that hard drives fill up no matter what, and it's very hard to keep track of what exactly it is that's eating up the space.

I don't want to have to reinstall all my preference panes, plugins, applications, settings, Safari extensions, re-teach Safari all my logins and passwords, widgets, hardware drivers, WiFi passwords, etc...

It took such a long time to get the system to be perfectly the way I like it, I would hate to have to start over again.

I use a Time Machine backup and I think I'll just upgrade to Lion. If something's wrong or too slow, I can always go back to Snow Leopard with Time Machine or I could do a fresh install...

If it's a bug I.n the OS, it will probably be fixed in Lion. Otherwise if it's not fixed that means it's either not a bug or they didn't realize it was.

To see which files are taking up space, use GrandPrespective or Omni Disk Sweeper. For me it's usually the music or movies folder. I just move them to a DVD or cd and never hear or miss those music anymore (I just burn the ones I don't like or podcasts I've already heard)

Don't start over. It's a pain :) I feel you.

Gnuff
Jun 3, 2011, 05:58 AM
To see which files are taking up space, use GrandPrespective or Omni Disk Sweeper..


Wow, thanks for the tip, I just tried GrandPrespective and it worked great!

baryon
Jun 3, 2011, 06:56 AM
If it's a bug I.n the OS, it will probably be fixed in Lion. Otherwise if it's not fixed that means it's either not a bug or they didn't realize it was.

To see which files are taking up space, use GrandPrespective or Omni Disk Sweeper. For me it's usually the music or movies folder. I just move them to a DVD or cd and never hear or miss those music anymore (I just burn the ones I don't like or podcasts I've already heard)

Don't start over. It's a pain :) I feel you.

Thanks! Great tips :D

Edit: GrandPerspective is amazing! I always felt like I knew what things take up most of the space, but now that I can SEE it, it makes it so much easier!

roadbloc
Jun 3, 2011, 07:26 AM
I do a clean install every OS upgrade, just to get rid of the masses of crap I end up having scattered across my hard drive over the years. And because I feel there is too many variables and too much that can go wrong in an upgrade install. Maybe that's just me reminiscing over my Windows days, but I certainly think a clean install is superior to an upgrade.

Nobita
Jun 3, 2011, 08:24 AM
I do a clean install every OS upgrade, just to get rid of the masses of crap I end up having scattered across my hard drive over the years. And because I feel there is too many variables and too much that can go wrong in an upgrade install. Maybe that's just me reminiscing over my Windows days, but I certainly think a clean install is superior to an upgrade.

I guess if you have important things that you use everyday that takes hours if not days to install and customize, you might not want to clean install. I as a programmer had spend hours customizing my bash profile and eclipse :(

Also in my experience it looks like upgrade in Mac,unlike windows does not make the machine sluggish :)

baryon
Jun 3, 2011, 09:01 AM
I remember I once had Windows in one language, and then I did an upgrade to another language... Some of the menus were in one language, and the rest was in another, and there was no way to fix that. That kind of stuff won't happen in OS X as the entire OS gets replaced.

Nobita
Jun 3, 2011, 09:12 AM
I remember I once had Windows in one language, and then I did an upgrade to another language... Some of the menus were in one language, and the rest was in another, and there was no way to fix that. That kind of stuff won't happen in OS X as the entire OS gets replaced.

Although what I'm worried about is if Apple falsely advertise the minimum system requirement for Lion. So for example if they said Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM enough for Lion, or if any Macs sold after 2008 is enough for Lion, I hope they meant that the upgrade won't make the system sluggish at all and will feel as fast if not faster than snow leopard.

One of the mistakes that Vista made was underestimating the minimum system requirement. People with 1GB RAM upgraded to Vista and it made their machine unusable. Turns out Vista needed more than 1GB of RAM and people didn't upgrade to Vista unless they bought a new computer.

I just hope that this doesn't happen with Lion (or any OS release for that matter, let's hope that the iOS 4.0 on iPhone 3G fiasco won't happen again). As a security measure I'm going to wait for a week or two after Lion is released until I upgrade. Just to let others see how it went on 2008 mac laptops :)

funkyfresh69
Jun 3, 2011, 02:19 PM
Coming from a Windows background, I would never upgrade and OS (if Windows)
I did an in place upgrade of Leopard to Snow Leopard and used migration assistant to restore a TM backup.

Then for the hell of it, i did a fresh install of SL and just manually copied files and some settings back.

Benchmarking them in terms of boot time etc. yielded no difference. So i started to believe that the upgrade route had no disadvantages.

But,

Having upgraded from 10.6.7 to Lion DP2 then DP 3, i have had nothing but problems. Slow boot times, generally unstableness, and system freezes.

I bit the bullet last week and wiped my HDD. Then installed SL onto a small partition and downloaded DP2. Ran that and selected a large empty partition on the disk ,effectively doing a fresh install of DP2. Ran all the updates and ended up at Dp3, then reinstalled all apps and just copied data from my TM backup.

Now the system runs faster, feels more snappy and most importantly has only frozen once.

So, in my experience, a fresh install of the developer previews is best...