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MacRumors
Jun 2, 2011, 01:15 PM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/02/iphone-5-att-4g/)


Barron's reports (http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2011/06/01/ts-iphone-advantage-hudson-sq-says-buy-dump-vz/) on a new research note from Hudson Square analyst Todd Rethemeier, who claims that the fifth-generation iPhone due this fall will indeed support HSPA+ technology, a development that will allow the device to offer faster data speeds on GSM networks such as AT&T. (The currently shipping iPhone supports standard HSPA.) Despite the fact that HSPA+ is slower than the LTE standard being rolled out by major carriers, AT&T has begun marketing its HSPA+ network as "4G", meaning that the carrier could position the next iPhone as a 4G device despite it failing to offer LTE compatibility.

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/hspa.jpg



The implications of an HSPA+ iPhone are significant in the United States, where Apple presently offers a separate CDMA iPhone running on Verizon. Even with both current models of the iPhone 4 limited to 3G networks, AT&T's HSPA data network is already faster than Verizon's EVDO data network. That disparity will be magnified with the next iPhone as AT&T users will be able to experience download speeds in the range of 5-10 Mbps under HSPA+ while users on Verizon will remain stuck on the carrier's current 3G network running in the neighborhood of 1 Mbps.

And that advantage would continue to be significant even for the expected LTE-enabled sixth-generation iPhone until LTE networks are essentially built out, as AT&T users would be able to fall back from LTE to HSPA+ while Verizon users would fall all the way back to basic 3G when out of LTE coverage areas.For AT&T iPhone 5 users, this could mean download speeds of 5-10 Mbps, compared to less than 1 Mbps for a Verizon user. Certainly, when an LTE iPhone is introduced AT&T would lose some of its marketing advantage. However, even when that happens, the phone will be backwards compatible, so the AT&T iPhone 6 would be able to roam onto the HSPA+ network when an LTE network is not available, giving AT&T an advantage in suburban and rural areas for several more years, we believe.AT&T notes (http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB115947) that it is currently seeing "4G" speeds of up to 6 Mbps for HSPA+ devices connected to cell towers utilizing the enhanced backhaul connections needed to support such speeds. The carrier touts (http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB115944) HSPA+ as an intermediate step on the way to LTE, a move that will enable it to be the only U.S. carrier to offer two layers of "4G" speeds on its network.

Early reports (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/222046/atrix_4g_speeds_reported_slower_than_3g.html) have seen some users of "4G" HSPA+ devices on AT&T experiencing speeds slower than that seen on 3G, particularly when it comes to upload, although the carrier is still finishing building out its full HSPA+ capabilities. Consequently, it remains to be seen exactly just how wide the disparity would be between an HSPA+ iPhone running on AT&T versus one running on Verizon's network.

Verizon executives have claimed (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/19/verizon-reiterates-claims-of-world-mode-next-generation-iphone-simultaneous-with-att-debut/) that the next-generation iPhone will be a single "world-mode" model capable of operating on both GSM and CDMA networks. The CDMA iPhone 4 and iPad 2 already include a Qualcomm chip (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/07/verizon-iphone-carries-world-mode-gobi-chip-from-qualcomm/) capable of supporting both HSPA+ and CDMA 3G standards, meaning that Apple would primarily have to focus on integrating sufficient antenna capabilities to support the number of frequencies required for both CDMA and GSM compatibility in a single device.

Article Link: iPhone 5 Likely to Support AT&T '4G', Widening Speed Gap Over Verizon (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/02/iphone-5-att-4g/)



ratzzo
Jun 2, 2011, 01:20 PM
Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't? :confused:

chrmjenkins
Jun 2, 2011, 01:20 PM
I have an HTC Inspire 4G and I see no faster speeds in the LA area.

FriarNurgle
Jun 2, 2011, 01:21 PM
Feds need to step in and set limits to what people can call 4G. This crap is getting confusing.

chrmjenkins
Jun 2, 2011, 01:23 PM
Feds need to step in and set limits to what people can call 4G. This crap is getting confusing.

The international body that regulates the terms already ok'ed HSPA+ and greater and first gen LTE as '4G'. They use to require peak speeds of 100 Mbps, but no one liked that so here we are.

Verizon's LTE network wasn't even in the original definition because the next version "LTE-Advanced" is considered to be the eventual goal of the technology.

source: http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx

ToroidalZeus
Jun 2, 2011, 01:24 PM
It's going to suck now knowing if you are on HSPA+ or LTE 4G.

miles01110
Jun 2, 2011, 01:24 PM
Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't? :confused:

The same thing happens every time there's a race to be the first to adopt a new buzzword.

F123D
Jun 2, 2011, 01:26 PM
Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't? :confused:

So they can charge you more $$$$$ for it. Yay phone companies.

Yvan256
Jun 2, 2011, 01:27 PM
Can't wait to try LTE in Canada...

probably in two or three decades, for the low price of only 100.00$ per month with an amazingly huge quota of 500 MB. :rolleyes:

srl7741
Jun 2, 2011, 01:30 PM
Feds need to step in and set limits to what people can call 4G. This crap is getting confusing.

That and you should not be able to run TV Ads claiming the same when you dont even have 4G anywhere in an entire State. People walk into a store buy a 4G phone and never think to ask if they even have 4G service. They find out later "It's Coming". Total farse and deceiving to the average consumer.

I have several people a week brag to me about their 4G smart device and I smile while telling them good job, we don't even have 4G anywhere in the entire State you moron.

Popeye206
Jun 2, 2011, 01:31 PM
I'll believe it when I see it....

and more.... I'll care when 4G is actually out there in more than a few major areas.

Wake me up in a year.... 4G is so oversold right now.

Full of Win
Jun 2, 2011, 01:34 PM
AT&T can cram it with walnuts if they use this minor bump in speed to break existing unlimited plans.

trekkie604
Jun 2, 2011, 01:34 PM
Can't wait to try LTE in Canada...

probably in two or three decades, for the low price of only 100.00$ per month with an amazingly huge quota of 500 MB. :rolleyes:

Rogers is already rolling out their LTE network.

*LTD*
Jun 2, 2011, 01:34 PM
Can't wait to try LTE in Canada...

probably in two or three decades, for the low price of only 100.00$ per month with an amazingly huge quota of 500 MB. :rolleyes:

Well, Rogers is rolling out their new network at the moment. 4G LTE.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/04/27/rogers.details.lte.launch.cities.for.2011/

GENTLEB
Jun 2, 2011, 01:34 PM
This is so funny .... I'll take Verizons "slow" 1Mbps CDMA 3G over AT&T's EDGE 2G any day of the Week/Month/Year.

^^^ That's the bottom line here

I love the "fall back" to HSPA+ ROFL in reality it's a fall back to EDGE

Yvan256
Jun 2, 2011, 01:36 PM
Rogers is already rolling out their LTE network.

I'm probably not that far off with the monthly cost and quota, however. ;)

What makes me sad is that they say "With maximum download speeds of up to 150 Mbps and upload speeds of up to 70 Mbps", while Télébec here (only choice of ISP, if you call that a choice) is proud to sell me "high speed cable internet access" at speeds of 2, 5, 8 or 12 Mbps with 35GB/month quotas (uploads+downloads).

techweenie
Jun 2, 2011, 01:36 PM
I haven't had a dropped call yet with Verizon after dumping AT&T on the first day I could. I was getting an average of 3 dropped calls a day via AT&T in West LA. Their answer: "turn off 3G."

Really noticing the data speed drop with Verizon and don't like the incoming call management, but I can have conversations without interruption, and that kind of trumps the other issues.

dlee96
Jun 2, 2011, 01:36 PM
Fantastic! Now we can burn through a 5GB data plan faster than ever!

maclaptop
Jun 2, 2011, 01:37 PM
Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't? :confused:
They do that because of all the buzz in the market place. It's no different that any other rather false advertising we have on TV, the Net, the print media and other sources.

There is no "Official" 4G standard, therefore it's even easier for them to use the label "4G" in their advertising. They all do it, because all carriers are in the same business, and they have very little to use as a key differentiator for their company.

It's like rental car companies, they all do the same thing so they have to grab at straws to stand out in the crowd. To bring in the volume of business they seek.

If at some point relatively soon there is an agreement on a Standard, by which all are measured, then and only then will we be able to truly know what to expect, and what to demand from them.

Michael73
Jun 2, 2011, 01:37 PM
Apple is famous for concentrating on user experience rather than pure hardware specs. We all know that 3G drains the battery faster than EDGE, imagine what HSPA+ and 4G LTE will do! I sure as heck hope they figure out how to support HSPA+ and 4G LTE without a piss-poor battery life.

ipoppy
Jun 2, 2011, 01:37 PM
Can someone tell me what is the benefit of 4G (LTE). Yes , its fast but what you going to do with all that speed. 3G not fast enough? Tether perhaps? Yes, that will be good as long as you got jailbreak in unless you want to pay ridiculous rates per MB used.
Any more useful stuff?
I am not surprised that Apple is slow with all this...

Papajohn56
Jun 2, 2011, 01:38 PM
I hate this. HSPA+ isn't "4G". LTE is.

chrmjenkins
Jun 2, 2011, 01:40 PM
I hate this. HSPA+ isn't "4G". LTE is.

Yes, it is.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12671679&postcount=5

ghostface147
Jun 2, 2011, 01:43 PM
This is so funny .... I'll take Verizons "slow" 1Mbps CDMA 3G over AT&T's EDGE 2G any day of the Week/Month/Year.

^^^ That's the bottom line here

I love the "fall back" to HSPA+ ROFL in reality it's a fall back to EDGE

Speak for yourself. Where I live, there is no edge. All 3G.

riverfreak
Jun 2, 2011, 01:46 PM
Coverage first, speed second.

Flat out, AT&Ts coverage is abysmal.

treyjustice
Jun 2, 2011, 01:47 PM
I figured it would support this. I'm really glad. I easily get 4mbps here is DFW, Texas. With LTE rolling out later this month and our hspa+ getting upgraded and faster I wouldn't be surprised to see downloads around 10mbps when the next iphone comes out:D

Thunderhawks
Jun 2, 2011, 01:47 PM
Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't? :confused:

Betamax and 8-Track was taken:-)

HaiRy
Jun 2, 2011, 01:48 PM
Typical case of looking only at the American market.

HSPA is nothing new in Europe, we've been having phones supporting it for several years. It's hardly the big selling point in other markets as it seems to be in the USA. People aren't not buying the iPhone because it doesn't support HSPA, the 3.6 Mbps offered on 3G seems to be keeping people content enough.

On the issue of 4G and HSPA, can we please just settle on the fact that HSPA is simply "3.5G" and nothing more. I don't see why people are getting worked up about the next iPhone needing 4G, LTE or whatever either, 3rd Generation tech has been around for over a decade (my Dad works in standards and was involved with 3G and now LTE) but it's only been in the past 3-4 years that the benefits of 3G tech have really taken off. It's for this reason that I can't see any benefit in being the first out with 4G technology; there's simply no real demand for it.

treyjustice
Jun 2, 2011, 01:48 PM
Coverage first, speed second.

Flat out, AT&Ts coverage is abysmal.

I travel all the time and my AT&T coverage is usually quite great. There are some areas I don't have 3G or EDGE but the same way my girlfriend won't get service in some areas on her verizon phone. I would rather have speed in an area I live then more coverage honestly.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 2, 2011, 01:48 PM
Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't? :confused:

well technically it 4G but that is more because the carriers got them to change what is defined as 4G.

I call it Fake G. It pisses me off that they really are doing it. I would not be surprised if at some point LTE becomes known as 5G.

I say HSPA+ is more like 3.5G a lot like how Edge as 2.5G.

bushido
Jun 2, 2011, 01:50 PM
Apple is famous for concentrating on user experience rather than pure hardware specs. We all know that 3G drains the battery faster than EDGE, imagine what HSPA+ and 4G LTE will do! I sure as heck hope they figure out how to support HSPA+ and 4G LTE without a piss-poor battery life.

who cares about battery life anymore seriously, its not like u dont have to charge ur iphone every night as it is

apolloa
Jun 2, 2011, 01:54 PM
I still believe the new rumours today that the iPhone 4S or 5 WILL be announced on Monday but not put on sale until July or August.

jav6454
Jun 2, 2011, 01:56 PM
well technically it 4G but that is more because the carriers got them to change what is defined as 4G.

I call it Fake G. It pisses me off that they really are doing it. I would not be surprised if at some point LTE becomes known as 5G.

I say HSPA+ is more like 3.5G a lot like how Edge as 2.5G.

Its ironic how EDGE was originally defined as a 3G standard, but when AT&T adopted it they marketed it as just another 2G service (but technical users defined it as 2.75G). Now, HSPA+ has always been considered (originally) a 3.5G technology (21Mb/s) with the second revision of it (42 Mb/s) being the 3.75G equivalent. Funny how it's now upgraded to 4G....

bboucher790
Jun 2, 2011, 01:57 PM
Throughout the internet, this includes top rated journalists, people concern themselves with speeds and "speedtests". A maximum theoretical speed is, in a lot of cases, less important than latency.

While this may vary by area, ATT's latency ranges between 300 - 1000ms in the Orange County / LA / NY areas. Speeds range from abysmal > 2.5mbit.

My average latency on Verizon is 190ms. My WiFi is only 100ms lower than that. My average speeds range from .5mbit > 1.2 mbit and are much more consistent on a day to day basis.

Even though my speeds are better with ATT, my Verizon iPhone reloads sports scores faster, loads mobile sites faster, videos load more evenly and the majority of desktop sites fly by. Verizon's lower latency leads to a better overall experience. 1 mbit is sufficient for the majority of work that needs to be done on a mobile device.

The point I'm trying to make is that HSPA+ tends to have a lower latency than HSPA and that will be the most noticeable change for ATT users, as they transition to the iPhone 5(4s). A lot of tasks on the iPhone are latency related, and not speed related.

chrmjenkins
Jun 2, 2011, 01:58 PM
Its ironic how EDGE was originally defined as a 3G standard, but when AT&T adopted it they marketed it as just another 2G service (but technical users defined it as 2.75G). Now, HSPA+ has always been considered (originally) a 3.5G technology (21Mb/s) with the second revision of it (42 Mb/s) being the 3.75G equivalent. Funny how it's now upgraded to 4G....

And Verizon's LTE implementation was originally labeled 3.9G ;)

Rodimus Prime
Jun 2, 2011, 02:01 PM
Its ironic how EDGE was originally defined as a 3G standard, but when AT&T adopted it they marketed it as just another 2G service (but technical users defined it as 2.75G). Now, HSPA+ has always been considered (originally) a 3.5G technology (21Mb/s) with the second revision of it (42 Mb/s) being the 3.75G equivalent. Funny how it's now upgraded to 4G....

it is all about what marketing wants.
2G vs 3G had fundamental changes in the technology in how it worked. 3g vs this fake G does not have those changes. It more of flipping a switch and making sure the backhaul can handle it (something that should never be put on a box like AT&T did with the infuse)

LTE is a fundamental change from 3G tech out there. Nothing is wrong with HSPA+ but marketing is what screwed everything up because first TMobile started BSing with it HSPA+4G (which is faster than AT&T's) then Verizon launched its true 4G network and Sprint had its 4G wi-Max. AT&T could not be left out so they joined T-Mobile in the lie.

I will say Sprint and Verizon are using what I call true 4G. I will let Wi-Max be a 4G techology but I will not call HSPA+ 4G.

vincenz
Jun 2, 2011, 02:06 PM
Well that seals it for me. iPhone 5 here I come.

ToroidalZeus
Jun 2, 2011, 02:06 PM
Typical case of looking only at the American market.

HSPA is nothing new in Europe, we've been having phones supporting it for several years. It's hardly the big selling point in other markets as it seems to be in the USA. People aren't not buying the iPhone because it doesn't support HSPA, the 3.6 Mbps offered on 3G seems to be keeping people content enough.

On the issue of 4G and HSPA, can we please just settle on the fact that HSPA is simply "3.5G" and nothing more. I don't see why people are getting worked up about the next iPhone needing 4G, LTE or whatever either, 3rd Generation tech has been around for over a decade (my Dad works in standards and was involved with 3G and now LTE) but it's only been in the past 3-4 years that the benefits of 3G tech have really taken off. It's for this reason that I can't see any benefit in being the first out with 4G technology; there's simply no real demand for it.

Typical European opening his mouth to chastise America. HSPA is different from HSPA+

iSee
Jun 2, 2011, 02:06 PM
I'd love to know (in order to figure out which phone I buy next what carrier I sign up with):

(1) What's the likely real-world speed difference between HSPA+ and LTE over the next few years?

(2) What will the relative availability of HSPA+ vs. LTE be over the next few years?

I'd especially like to know the answers to these in my area (SW CT), but any general US numbers would be nice too...

Can anyone even guess about (1) at this point?

BryanLyle
Jun 2, 2011, 02:10 PM
Jeez. I'm still waiting for 3G in my area. AT&T is all EDGE around here.

longofest
Jun 2, 2011, 02:13 PM
The international body that regulates the terms already ok'ed HSPA+ and greater and first gen LTE as '4G'. They use to require peak speeds of 100 Mbps, but no one liked that so here we are.

Verizon's LTE network wasn't even in the original definition because the next version "LTE-Advanced" is considered to be the eventual goal of the technology.

source: http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx

Wikipedia disagrees with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

The fastest 3G based standard in the WCDMA family is the HSPA+ standard, which was commercially available in 2009 and offers 28 Mbit/s downstreams without MIMO, i.e. only with one antenna (it would offer 56 Mbit/s with 2x2 MIMO), and 22 Mbit/s upstreams.

I just hope that AT&T's ping time gets better. The download speeds are great, but I can get sub-100 ms pings reliably on other networks (sprint, verizon), whereas AT&T likes to be consistently above 400ms.

brownpaw
Jun 2, 2011, 02:14 PM
Sorry, but can someone explain to me why anyone gives a **** about 4G? I consider myself a power user and my Verizon Droid X (got tired of waiting for the Verizon iPhone...) has never left me waiting for a page to load, or a video to buffer, etc. Downloads are plenty fast, too.

I just don't understand what people are doing on these devices that require so much bandwidth. Seems more like just another acronym so nerds can dick wag to their friends.

wordoflife
Jun 2, 2011, 02:17 PM
DO NOT WANT until my HSPA+ speeds are actually faster than my 3G speeds. For the most part, they are slower than 3G speeds in my area.

jeffereyj
Jun 2, 2011, 02:18 PM
i'm not going to pay even more money per month just so i can use "4G".

if i really need to download something faster than 3G i will just use wifi like i currently do.

using wifi doesn't add to my data cap anyway.

Kentochan
Jun 2, 2011, 02:23 PM
I guess Apple can market it as "iPhone 4G"? Or at least for the AT&T version?

chrmjenkins
Jun 2, 2011, 02:23 PM
Wikipedia disagrees with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

That's where I verified my information before posting. It's even one of the sourced articles that I found independently via a google search.

On December 6, 2010, ITU announced that current versions of LTE, WiMax and other evolved 3G technologies that do not fulfill "IMT-Advanced" requirements could be considered "4G", provided they represent forerunners to IMT-Advanced and "a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G#cite_note-ITUSeminar-5

If you look further, HSPA+ and LTE (as Verizon implements it) are both part of the 3GPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP) family and are "3G transitional" protocols meaning they are 3.5G or later (source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cellular_network_standards)). Given that the current LTE and WiMax implementations are explicitly granted 4G status now, one would imagine HSPA+ must be 4G implicitly.

cvaldes
Jun 2, 2011, 02:23 PM
The key driver for Apple to adopt HSPA+ is the rest of the world. Second and third generation HSPA+ networks have been widely deployed outside of the United States. Since almost 60% of Apple's revenue derives from international markets, it would make good business sense to provide a handset that will exploit HSPA+ at this time.

The '4G' that is currently marketed is just that: a marketing term.

The ITU defines 4G as 1Gbps to slow-moving (e.g. pedestrian) and stationary devices and 100Mbps to fast-moving devices (e.g., trains, autos). The current LTE implementations (Verizon, AT&T, etc.) do not qualify for 4G compliance.

DO NOT WANT until my HSPA+ speeds are actually faster than my 3G speeds. For the most part, they are slower than 3G speeds in my area.
That's because you live in a country with backwater mobile operators, just like me.

In most HSPA+ markets, the HSPA+ networks are indeed faster than HSPA/EV-DO networks.

mdatwood
Jun 2, 2011, 02:30 PM
This is so funny .... I'll take Verizons "slow" 1Mbps CDMA 3G over AT&T's EDGE 2G any day of the Week/Month/Year.

^^^ That's the bottom line here

I love the "fall back" to HSPA+ ROFL in reality it's a fall back to EDGE

I haven't seen edge in a long time, and where I live 3g flies. Once again it's all about where you live.

idea_hamster
Jun 2, 2011, 02:30 PM
AT&T can cram it with walnuts ....
Really!

The real issue in NYC isn't connection speed but bandwidth. Still. After years.

The speed limit on the Long Island Expressway may be 55mph, but somehow tonight, as always, rush-hour traffic will be moving at about 20mph. Why? Good connection speed, but rotten bandwidth. No different for AT&T.

I can still barely check a plaintext email during the day downtown (forget using Map.app or Safari) and I can still barely send a plaintext sms from Penn Station on my way home.

They can roll out 9G; without more bandwidth, it's simply not good.

DEXTERITY
Jun 2, 2011, 02:33 PM
I travel all the time and my AT&T coverage is usually quite great. There are some areas I don't have 3G or EDGE but the same way my girlfriend won't get service in some areas on her verizon phone. I would rather have speed in an area I live then more coverage honestly.

what good is speed if you have no coverage? AT&T coverage in the Tri-State (NY/NJ) blows. I have three dropped calls a day with AT&T compared to ZERO EVER with Verizon.

ilfn143
Jun 2, 2011, 02:37 PM
MyTouch 4G T-Mobile San Diego, CA Unlimited data $25/month no contract got the phone on craigslist for $200 :)
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1245/cap2011052216031.jpg

Number 41
Jun 2, 2011, 02:47 PM
Sorry, but can someone explain to me why anyone gives a **** about 4G? I consider myself a power user and my Verizon Droid X (got tired of waiting for the Verizon iPhone...) has never left me waiting for a page to load, or a video to buffer, etc. Downloads are plenty fast, too.

You never know what tomorrow will bring -- your 3G service might be fast enough to cover today's needs, but why handicap yourself for what tomorrow might offer?

skellener
Jun 2, 2011, 02:54 PM
AT&T notes that it is currently seeing "4G" speeds of up to 6 Mbps for HSPA+ devices connected to cell towers utilizing the enhanced backhaul connections needed to support such speeds. Have never seen that anywhere with AT&T. Lucky to get 1Mbp down. Usually it's less than half that.

Ultrafied
Jun 2, 2011, 02:56 PM
Had Verizon for years. Swapped to AT&T strictly for speed in comparison to 3G on Verizon. LTE won't be near me until mid-late 2012. I will stay with AT&T until then. Coverage is good in my area. If T-Mo can say they have 4G, why not AT&T?

dissdnt
Jun 2, 2011, 03:01 PM
That's cool if you live in the one city it's available in.

chrmjenkins
Jun 2, 2011, 03:03 PM
Had Verizon for years. Swapped to AT&T strictly for speed in comparison to 3G on Verizon. LTE won't be near me until mid-late 2012. I will stay with AT&T until then. Coverage is good in my area. If T-Mo can say they have 4G, why not AT&T?

If you're actually in Riverside, it's completely possible AT&T LTE will reach you by the end of 2012 anyway.

SeniorGato1
Jun 2, 2011, 03:20 PM
The differences between LTE and HSPA+ are negligible. T-Mobile just doubled their HSPA+ speeds to 42 MB/s.

What everyone's missing is that Verizon will be at another disadvantage because the iPhone 5 is rumored not to support LTE for Verizon's network until the 2012 release.

Therefore, depending on where you live, the iphone 5 will have much faster data speeds on ATT.

Bummer.

iMouse
Jun 2, 2011, 03:22 PM
The new AT&T. Getting you to your bandwidth cap, faster.

crzdcolombian
Jun 2, 2011, 03:33 PM
I'd like to be able to make phone calls on it :). Seriously the drop calls on this thing is ******.

Also maybe an easy mode so my brain dead parents can use it:D

willybNL
Jun 2, 2011, 03:58 PM
Just my little hope: let it be a dual-sim supported device....

It's so hard having to wear both an iPhone (private phone) and another phone for the job.... putting both sim's into my iphone would rock my world.

p.s. Yeah,.. I know: samsung has phones that do support it... but I only want a iPhone Dual-Sim.

D3lta
Jun 2, 2011, 04:01 PM
Questions is, how much faster is this in real-life usage? In my area, Verizon is just as fast as AT&T, sometimes even faster and they have better signal.

I think I'm still going to switch to Verizon when the new iPhone comes out. I've had my iPhone replaced multiple times due to signal issues but it seems it's AT&T, not the phone. Signal drops when I'm indoors, at places like Sears and Macy's. Extremely frustrating. Verizon, here I come.

Krovem
Jun 2, 2011, 04:06 PM
I hope that they will announce iPhone 5 during WWDC. As for 4G, it better be everywhere and not only in some areas.

bigpatky
Jun 2, 2011, 04:07 PM
Right now I get 1.2 mbps at very best w/ 300-400 ms latency. Will hspa+ be faster? If it will, then I don't care what it's called. The name is meaningless.

SevenInchScrew
Jun 2, 2011, 04:16 PM
The differences between LTE and HSPA+ are negligible. T-Mobile just doubled their HSPA+ speeds to 42 MB/s.
T-Mo did just doubled the theoretical top speed of their HSPA+ speed in SOME markets to 42mbps. Too bad they have 0 (zero) phones that will do those speeds.

Galaxy S 4G can do 21mbps, while the G2x, G2, and MT4G can only do 14mbps. And since those are the theoretical limit of the modem, actual speeds will be much less. Contrast that to people using Verizon's LTE and seeing real speeds of 20+mbps.

bboucher790
Jun 2, 2011, 04:44 PM
Questions is, how much faster is this in real-life usage? In my area, Verizon is just as fast as AT&T, sometimes even faster and they have better signal.

I think I'm still going to switch to Verizon when the new iPhone comes out. I've had my iPhone replaced multiple times due to signal issues but it seems it's AT&T, not the phone. Signal drops when I'm indoors, at places like Sears and Macy's. Extremely frustrating. Verizon, here I come.

Read my post on page 2. Verizon, for me at least, is FASTER for data than ATT due to lower latency and more consistent connections.

palmerc2
Jun 2, 2011, 05:01 PM
I just hope it's 64GB capacity. That's all I want :-)

Reach9
Jun 2, 2011, 05:05 PM
I just hope it's 64GB capacity. That's all I want :-)

i just hope the screen is bigger, that's all i want :)

twoodcc
Jun 2, 2011, 05:18 PM
Well I just hope it gets here soon

rman726
Jun 2, 2011, 05:56 PM
This is so funny .... I'll take Verizons "slow" 1Mbps CDMA 3G over AT&T's EDGE 2G any day of the Week/Month/Year.

^^^ That's the bottom line here

I love the "fall back" to HSPA+ ROFL in reality it's a fall back to EDGE

You can't be serious? I download at a shade under 400kb/s with AT&T's 3G. That is far greater than what Verizon provides. Verizon's 3G is slow by any measure of the word.

There's a reason why AT&T customers aren't seeing a huge difference between 3G and HSPA+. It's because there isn't one. AT&T 3G already gets 3Mbps, so to get 6Mbps really isn't much of a difference for normal applications.

And if your point was 3G isn't available anywhere because you see the maps on the TV commericals, well then you are just clueless about AT&T. AT&T gets 3G service anywhere there are more than 20 people that live in a town.

macse30
Jun 2, 2011, 06:15 PM
I love the "fall back" to HSPA+ ROFL in reality it's a fall back to EDGE

I'd love to fall back to EDGE, because that would mean I am no longer stuck on EDGE all the time. I live in a small town with no 3G, yet I pay over a hundred bucks a month for an unlimited plan. It really pisses me off when AT&T talks about 4G stuff when they deliver 2G. On top of that, we have ONE cell tower and when it fails, we get 0G. /rant

mrweirdo
Jun 2, 2011, 06:17 PM
one word REVB ;)

I noticed when the CDMA iPhone launched it specifically mentioned supporting REVB EVDO data speeds over just REV A. As of right now Both Verizon and Sprint only support up to REV A data. Hopefully this will put pressure on both carriers to upgrade the 3G network speeds which from what I understand involves mostly a software update on the towers to begin with.

chrmjenkins
Jun 2, 2011, 06:30 PM
one word REVB ;)

I noticed when the CDMA iPhone launched it specifically mentioned supporting REVB EVDO data speeds over just REV A. As of right now Both Verizon and Sprint only support up to REV A data. Hopefully this will put pressure on both carriers to upgrade the 3G network speeds which from what I understand involves mostly a software update on the towers to begin with.

In most cases it is just a software update from what I understand. The real questions are coverage and backhaul.

HangmanSwingset
Jun 2, 2011, 09:32 PM
That and you should not be able to run TV Ads claiming the same when you dont even have 4G anywhere in an entire State. People walk into a store buy a 4G phone and never think to ask if they even have 4G service. They find out later "It's Coming". Total farse and deceiving to the average consumer.

I have several people a week brag to me about their 4G smart device and I smile while telling them good job, we don't even have 4G anywhere in the entire State you moron.

That reminds me of how Cici's Pizza is advertized here in Spokane, WA. There isn't one for over a thousand miles. The closest one is in freakin Las Vegas! WTF!

I'm still running on EDGE on my iPhone 3G. We have 3G here, but I like my battery. I don't even get data anyway, so it doesn't even really matter.

chuckzee
Jun 2, 2011, 10:30 PM
Not bad in the Detroit / Chicago area.

3g faster than so-called "4"G.

how come i'm getting hspa+ speeds on iphone 4? :rolleyes:



http://www.speedtest.net/iphone/79237966.png

http://www.speedtest.net/iphone/93093192.png

oban14
Jun 2, 2011, 11:34 PM
I won't consider an iPhone unless it's on LTE - or faster. Also, it can't be on AT&T.

D3lta
Jun 2, 2011, 11:59 PM
Not bad in the Detroit / Chicago area.

3g faster than so-called "4"G.

how come i'm getting hspa+ speeds on iphone 4? :rolleyes:



Image (http://www.speedtest.net/iphone/79237966.png)

Image (http://www.speedtest.net/iphone/93093192.png)

Looking at the time stamps on those results, you did a test in the early morning and late at night. I think if I did a test at 1AM, I'd get some pretty fast speeds. Doing a test at noon will probably get you much lower speeds.

nosser
Jun 3, 2011, 12:19 AM
I'm using a Sumsang infuse 4g and getting 6-9mbps with my highest being 9.99mbps in the O.C (SoCal)

WissMAN
Jun 3, 2011, 12:31 AM
So I didn't hold out for the refreshed MBA and have a 2 month old MBA now, 'm enjoying it greatly and would not change if I could.

With that said, I expect to hold out for the IP5 until September. Hopefully there are no big delays.

Ruhruh
Jun 3, 2011, 12:47 AM
I want 4g so bad, websites will load 1.23 seconds faster!!!

Beyond waiving your carrier epeen and bragging about speedtests, what is all the concern with 4g?

Data caps are here and will continue to get worse, reaching the cap even faster is not good.

Currently its not so hot with battery life and coverage is spotty for a lot of areas.

I can see the use if your are tethering and down/uploading a lot of data, but unless carriers continue unlimited plans (which they won't), it's going to be overkill in many situations.

I was playing with a co-workers new Nexus S 4g or whatever it's called and they didn't even know that it had 4g, so I turned it on, but then realized there wasn't much I could use the extra speed for and turned it off for her, because she had no use for it, even though I think she is paying 4g tax for it...

Žalgiris
Jun 3, 2011, 05:01 AM
Who cares about speed if data is still capped and ridiculously expensive. If i was living in US i'd have to sell a kidney to pay for it.

HSDPA 3-4 Mbps is enough for mobile things. What people need is sane data plans.

diamond.g
Jun 3, 2011, 08:19 AM
Who cares about speed if data is still capped and ridiculously expensive. If i was living in US i'd have to sell a kidney to pay for it.

HSDPA 3-4 Mbps is enough for mobile things. What people need is sane data plans.

And better latency...

raccoontail
Jun 3, 2011, 09:39 AM
I'd love to fall back to EDGE, because that would mean I am no longer stuck on EDGE all the time. I live in a small town with no 3G, yet I pay over a hundred bucks a month for an unlimited plan. It really pisses me off when AT&T talks about 4G stuff when they deliver 2G.

I live in an area with mostly EDGE coverage as well. I've never upgraded my original EDGE-only iPhone because I'm still grandfathered in on the original data pricing ($10/month for EDGE data including 200 texts). Upgrading to any of the newer iPhones would add $240 a year to my AT&T costs. Maybe the iPhone 5 will have enough new features to make it worthwhile, but I'm young, and $240 in savings compounded over the next 30-40 years will be worth a lot later in life. I doubt having web pages load a bit faster right now is worth it. EDGE also has an often overlooked benefit - few dropped calls compared to 3G.

cubbie5150
Jun 3, 2011, 12:36 PM
I live in an area with mostly EDGE coverage as well. I've never upgraded my original EDGE-only iPhone because I'm still grandfathered in on the original data pricing ($10/month for EDGE data including 200 texts). Upgrading to any of the newer iPhones would add $240 a year to my AT&T costs. Maybe the iPhone 5 will have enough new features to make it worthwhile, but I'm young, and $240 in savings compounded over the next 30-40 years will be worth a lot later in life. I doubt having web pages load a bit faster right now is worth it. EDGE also has an often overlooked benefit - few dropped calls compared to 3G.

I wish I would've done the same. Had the original iPhone, skipped 3G, but upgraded when 3GS came out. I am on the 200 MB/month plan (stupidly paid unlimited until a few months ago), which is still a ridiculous $15/month, I think. No 3G where I live, & data is rarely used as I try to find wifi hotspots since Edge is so slow. LMFAO, AT&T....gimme 3G service w/ reliable voice please.

elthesensai
Jun 4, 2011, 01:08 AM
This is so funny .... I'll take Verizons "slow" 1Mbps CDMA 3G over AT&T's EDGE 2G any day of the Week/Month/Year.

^^^ That's the bottom line here

I love the "fall back" to HSPA+ ROFL in reality it's a fall back to EDGE

What??? Of course Verizon's 3G is faster than AT&T's edge or 2G, but Verizon's 3G is slower than AT&T's 3G and that's a fact. And what's so funny about AT&T iphone jumping between LTE and HSPA+? Are you saying that Verizon iphone jumping between LTE and their 3G is better/faster? By the way you do know that Verizon's 3G is really like 2.5G and that's why it's slower. Like HSPA+ is like 3.5G. Fact is that AT&T offers faster mobil broadband.

elthesensai
Jun 4, 2011, 01:15 AM
it is all about what marketing wants.
2G vs 3G had fundamental changes in the technology in how it worked. 3g vs this fake G does not have those changes. It more of flipping a switch and making sure the backhaul can handle it (something that should never be put on a box like AT&T did with the infuse)

LTE is a fundamental change from 3G tech out there. Nothing is wrong with HSPA+ but marketing is what screwed everything up because first TMobile started BSing with it HSPA+4G (which is faster than AT&T's) then Verizon launched its true 4G network and Sprint had its 4G wi-Max. AT&T could not be left out so they joined T-Mobile in the lie.

I will say Sprint and Verizon are using what I call true 4G. I will let Wi-Max be a 4G techology but I will not call HSPA+ 4G.
So can we call Verizon's 3G 2G instead?

caspersoong
Jun 4, 2011, 02:45 AM
Carriers here are really lagging. Broadband is tons slower than dial-up.

MacSince1990
Jun 4, 2011, 10:23 AM
The same thing happens every time there's a race to be the first to adopt a new buzzword.

^This

RafaelT
Jun 4, 2011, 10:40 AM
All debates about Verizon and at&t aside... this is a good step at this time. If this is what they are able to do without sacrificing form factor or battery then it is a good interim move. LTE really is not built out enough for them to make sacrifices with the design just to incorporate it.