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MacRumors
Jun 2, 2011, 02:41 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/02/apple-finally-signs-universal-music-icloud/)


CNet reports (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20068366-261/apple-signs-universal-music-to-icloud/) that Apple has signed the last of the four major record labels to its iCloud service which will be officially announced next week. The agreement means that Apple now has the rights to offer recording rights from all of the major labels. In addition, Apple has reached agreements with some of the large publishers, the sources said.This represents the final step before Apple is able to launch its iCloud service which is believed to offer music streaming to iOS and Mac users. Apple has already announced that they will be detailing iCloud at next week's WWDC keynote which takes place on Monday, June 6th.

CNet reports that labels will get 58%, publishers 12%, while Apple retains 30%. They also add that streaming won't be available on Monday but will be offered "soon". And at first, Apple will only store music in iCloud that was purchased in iTunes, but Apple is looking to include songs outside iTunes "sometime in the future".


Article Link: Apple Finally Signs Universal Music, iCloud Steaming Available "Soon" (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/02/apple-finally-signs-universal-music-icloud/)



TMar
Jun 2, 2011, 02:41 PM
Just in time...

RoelJuun
Jun 2, 2011, 02:45 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; nl-nl) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

And thus only iTunes bought music can be streamed when iCloud rolls out.

Vol7ron
Jun 2, 2011, 02:46 PM
Of course, gotta get all those wrinkles out of the service so it is flawless.

314631
Jun 2, 2011, 02:48 PM
I can't see the recording industry ever allowing Apple to store music acquired outside of iTunes. So the service will be pretty useless to me. Most of my music is purchased through Amazon these days and that isn't going to change no matter how cool Apple's service turns out to be.

jared52
Jun 2, 2011, 02:49 PM
Wow, so then 95% of my collection won't be in the iCloud? Don't think I'll be paying for that.

Centient
Jun 2, 2011, 02:52 PM
And at first, Apple will only store music in iCloud that was purchased in iTunes, but Apple is looking to include songs outside iTunes "sometime in the future".

Well Apple can let me know when that sometime in the future rolls around. Until then almost all interest in this service has just streamed out of me.

ox4dboy
Jun 2, 2011, 02:54 PM
I hope this means AirPlay starts working with more stuff - like the HBO Go app.

Robin4
Jun 2, 2011, 02:55 PM
How about finding out what they offer first, then you can choose to hate them. Geez, I hate those Debbie downers.

FuNGi
Jun 2, 2011, 02:55 PM
Agreed. I'll be 'waiting until the future' as well. Who buys itunes music anymore when there are legit and cheaper alternatives? If I can't put all my music in the frickin' iCloud then icanforgetaboutit.

ejacob
Jun 2, 2011, 02:57 PM
Still excited for any update to iDisk with or without "steaming" music.

wordoflife
Jun 2, 2011, 02:57 PM
Well lets see how this works on capped data plans for iPhones

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 02:57 PM
How about finding out what they offer first, then you can choose to hate them. Geez, I hate those Debbie downers.

Also be prepared for the word "soon" to mean "never" for the next week's worth of posts.

It's nice to understand how Macrumors works ahead of time.

Tonewheel
Jun 2, 2011, 02:58 PM
While streaming music seems great, I'm going to blow through my data plan well before the month is over. Or am I missing something??

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 02:59 PM
Wow, so then 95% of my collection won't be in the iCloud? Don't think I'll be paying for that.

Pretty specific taste if 95% of your music is not available on iTunes.

jumanji
Jun 2, 2011, 02:59 PM
Wow, so then 95% of my collection won't be in the iCloud? Don't think I'll be paying for that.

you don't have to - it's a good start...

Cougarcat
Jun 2, 2011, 03:00 PM
Pretty specific taste if 95% of your music is not available on iTunes.

Who would rebuy music just to use it on iCloud? :rolleyes:

OllyW
Jun 2, 2011, 03:01 PM
Pretty specific taste if 95% of your music is not available on iTunes.

I read it as he has only purchased 5% of his music from iTunes so he won't be allowed to access the other 95% from iCloud.

314631
Jun 2, 2011, 03:01 PM
Also be prepared for the word "soon" to mean "never" for the next week's worth of posts.

It's nice to understand how Macrumors works ahead of time.

You can be eternal optimist if you like. :p

For those who know how the recording industry thinks and works, we understand there is precisely zero chance of them EVER allowing Apple to potentially store and stream pirated works from their service. And there is no way for Apple to verify music uploaded outside of iTunes was legally acquired.

OzyOly
Jun 2, 2011, 03:01 PM
I was really hoping for a spotify type service. I pay £10/month for spotify premium, if apple offered that with the current mobileme features for £15/month, I'd be in! :(

richard5mith
Jun 2, 2011, 03:03 PM
I don't understand why this is going to be of any use to me. I have a Spotify subscription, which means I can already stream all the music I want on my desktop or iPhone. I can also cache it offline, so as to not blow through my data plan when out and about.

Surely this is also similar to what Napster has been doing for years, or Rhapsody, or MOG etc now.

So if all the Apple service lets me do is stream the music I've already bought, which I probably have on my device anyway.... am I missing something?

Avatar74
Jun 2, 2011, 03:04 PM
Amazon, Google, Best Buy, WalMart, Microsoft... it was nice knowin' ya.

dwd3885
Jun 2, 2011, 03:05 PM
Good start, but Amazon has everything you purchase stored in addition to whatever you already have. Apple's service is substandard if true.

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:05 PM
You can be eternal optimist if you like. :p

For those who know how the recording industry thinks and works, we understand there is precisely zero chance of them EVER allowing Apple to potentially store and stream pirated works from their service. And there is no way for Apple to verify music uploaded outside of iTunes was legally acquired.

If you pay a monthly fee for this and if the labels get a cut of that* then they may not care if it's illegally acquired. You've already got the pirated music...here's a chance to make some money off that.

You act as if it's a hard sell to get the music labels to take money. It may yet happen.


* 2 'ifs' I admit. That's where the optomism comes in, I guess.

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 03:05 PM
Who would rebuy music just to use it on iCloud? :rolleyes:

I wasn't implying that.

OzyOly
Jun 2, 2011, 03:05 PM
I don't understand why this is going to be of any use to me. I have a Spotify subscription, which means I can already stream all the music I want on my desktop or iPhone. I can also cache it offline, so as to not blow through my data plan when out and about.

Surely this is also similar to what Napster has been doing for years, or Rhapsody, or MOG etc now.

So if all the Apple service lets me do is stream the music I've already bought, which I probably have on my device anyway.... am I missing something?

My thoughts exactly. This service will not take off if it's just storage of purchased music. Apple *must* have something up their sleeves. These are the guys who can make batteries sound revolutionary...

Piggie
Jun 2, 2011, 03:06 PM
I read it as he has only purchased 5% of his music from iTunes so he won't be allowed to access the other 95% from iCloud.

I purchased 0% of my music from iTunes and have no plans to ever buy any music or movies from iTunes either.

Not looking good for me, and others like me is it? :(

junklight
Jun 2, 2011, 03:06 PM
These Apple fan boys you hear about - where do they hang out?

anyway - I won't be buying icloud unless it has a camera and a real keyboard (non of this touch nonsense) and a disk drive and isn't the cloud just an oversized desktop computer anyway.....

dwd3885
Jun 2, 2011, 03:07 PM
If you pay a monthly fee for this and if the labels get a cut of that* then they may not care if it's illegally acquired. You've already got the pirated music...here's a chance to make some money off that.

You act as if it's a hard sell to get the music labels to take money. It may yet happen.


* 2 'ifs' I admit. That's where the optomism comes in, I guess.

i agree, if you are paying monthly or yearly for this service, then you should be able to store music not bought on iTunes. But, Amazon does this already so Apple should do something more, although doing the exact same thing as Amazon would be good, considering it would work with iOS

OllyW
Jun 2, 2011, 03:07 PM
If you pay a monthly fee for this and if the labels get a cut of that* then they may not care if it's illegally acquired. You've already got the pirated music...here's a chance to make some money off that.

You act as if it's a hard sell to get the music labels to take money. It may yet happen.


* 2 'ifs' I admit. That's where the optomism comes in, I guess.

I'm still having trouble understanding why I'd want to pay a monthly fee to access music I've already got? :confused:

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:08 PM
Wow, so then 95% of my collection won't be in the iCloud? Don't think I'll be paying for that.

I know. I buy hardly any music in the digital download format.

This cloud thing is not going to be a huge hit. There will be people using it and it won't lose money. But I think Apple, Amazon and other companies are over estimating the cloud's abilities to bring in profit directly or indirectly.

What I'm worried about to a small degree is a mindset that products need to enhance the cloud service and encourage its use at the expense of other ideas. For instance will Apple and other companies promoting clouds decide it isn't worth it to strive for large storage capacities on mobile devices since the user can use the cloud? Will 64GB be the upper limit on ipads for several years to come? And what about the new time capsule/airport devices? Will these eventually lose features to encourage use of the cloud? I love Apple products and generally agree with them when they buck trends like they did with dropping floppy drives back in the day. But sometimes they drop support for services/products too soon as they "move on".

derek1984
Jun 2, 2011, 03:09 PM
When will the sound quality on tracks from iTunes be improved? 128 to 160? That's all I care about

HiRez
Jun 2, 2011, 03:09 PM
I'm rooting for this to work, but if people can only store and stream iTunes-purchased music only, it's going to be a tough sell. I'm betting the better part of most people's music collection was not purchased from iTunes, and will not be for a long time in the future, if ever. In my case it's probably roughly 80% ripped from my CDs (which I've given away the physical copies of), 15% purchased from iTunes, and 5% from -- uh -- *cough* other sources. So this service will not be very useful to me if it is only iTunes-purchased music supported. The potential hit on these new data caps is another significant pitfall. Like Ping, if they can't get enough users, it won't get the momentum to continue.

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 03:10 PM
I'm still having trouble understanding why I'd want to pay a monthly fee to access music I've already got? :confused:

I'm still having trouble understanding why I'd want to stream music from internet if can have it locally on my device.

OzyOly
Jun 2, 2011, 03:11 PM
When will the sound quality on tracks from iTunes be improved? 128 to 160? That's all I care about

Last i checked they were 256... :confused:

OllyW
Jun 2, 2011, 03:13 PM
I'm still having trouble understanding why I'd want to stream music from internet if can have it locally on my device.

You know I'm beginning to think this cloud lark is a bit of a gimmick. :D

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:15 PM
So if you have a large music and movie collection on vinyl/silicon, you can leave that to someone in your will. But what about digital purchases? If I collect thousands of dollars of media over my lifetime, can I leave it to someone in my will? Will amazon switch my kindle content to another's account as my will states? Will Apple move my itunes music to another person's account for me?

Will the cost of a lawyer to get them to do this be greater than the purchase price of the media?

And what about gifting things while your alive? If I buy a CD I can give it away. Can I decide I don't want that album anymore and send it as a gift to someone and lose access to it myself?

I have a lot of reservations about digital purchases. I've started to embrace it a little for Kindle content but I hope I don't regret it. I purchase some music digitally when it is one song. But if I like the new music and decide to get the album I go after the physical purchase still.

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 03:17 PM
You know I'm beginning to think this cloud lark is a bit of a gimmick. :D

Looks like it. Well at least music streaming is kinda useless. Of course there will always be people on both ends of the extremes.

OzyOly
Jun 2, 2011, 03:17 PM
So if you have a large music and movie collection on vinyl/silicon, you can leave that to someone in your will. But what about digital purchases? If I collect thousands of dollars of media over my lifetime, can I leave it to someone in my will? Will amazon switch my kindle content to another's account as my will states? Will Apple move my itunes music to another person's account for me?


You're a cheerful bloke aren't you? :p

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:18 PM
I'm still having trouble understanding why I'd want to pay a monthly fee to access music I've already got? :confused:

Why do people pay for MobileMe?

I mean, I can get most of those things for free, right?

But the fact that it's all bundled together and integrated with my machines is worth something. It'll be the same for iCloud. Wait and see how it ties Lion and iOS 5 together. There will be some weird little feature there you really really want. You'll end up paying for iCloud because of that and then you'll use the music service since it's available to you.

Your friend will say "Music streaming? Why are you paying for that?" and then you'll have to explain this whole thing all over again.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:18 PM
You know I'm beginning to think this cloud lark is a bit of a gimmick. :D

I still think it is more about marketing. I think you will see your own tastes in music start to be used in ads in real life. Digital ad posters will see you approaching (having allowed location sensing for some free product or feature on a mobile device) and change its appearance to attract you. Music playing in stores will match the tastes of the majority of shoppers present.

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 03:19 PM
So if you have a large music and movie collection on vinyl/silicon, you can leave that to someone in your will. But what about digital purchases? If I collect thousands of dollars of media over my lifetime, can I leave it to someone in my will? Will amazon switch my kindle content to another's account as my will states? Will Apple move my itunes music to another person's account for me?

Will the cost of a lawyer to get them to do this be greater than the purchase price of the media?

And what about gifting things while your alive? If I buy a CD I can give it away. Can I decide I don't want that album anymore and send it as a gift to someone and lose access to it myself?

I have a lot of reservations about digital purchases. I've started to embrace it a little for Kindle content but I hope I don't regret it. I purchase some music digitally when it is one song. But if I like the new music and decide to get the album I go after the physical purchase still.

Please read iTunes EULA.

Centient
Jun 2, 2011, 03:20 PM
So if you have a large music and movie collection on vinyl/silicon, you can leave that to someone in your will. But what about digital purchases? If I collect thousands of dollars of media over my lifetime, can I leave it to someone in my will? Will amazon switch my kindle content to another's account as my will states? Will Apple move my itunes music to another person's account for me?

Will the cost of a lawyer to get them to do this be greater than the purchase price of the media?

And what about gifting things while your alive? If I buy a CD I can give it away. Can I decide I don't want that album anymore and send it as a gift to someone and lose access to it myself?

I have a lot of reservations about digital purchases. I've started to embrace it a little for Kindle content but I hope I don't regret it. I purchase some music digitally when it is one song. But if I like the new music and decide to get the album I go after the physical purchase still.

The good news is most people don't really care about your music collection. When you're dead and gone most of it will just be one more thing the people in charge of your estate will have to get rid of. Or the person(s) bequeathed will have to find room for in their home. At least the digital items can be easily deleted. ;)

newagemac
Jun 2, 2011, 03:21 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; nl-nl) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

And thus only iTunes bought music can be streamed when iCloud rolls out.

And thus there are even more benefits to buying from iTunes. Nice to see Apple rewarding its customers.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:21 PM
You're a cheerful bloke aren't you? :p

LOL - well we all have to think of these things eventually. But seriously there is at stake thousands of dollars. Not to mention in a large collection of physical media, some items may gain value as collector's items.

Please read iTunes EULA.

Do you know the answer concerning the will?


The good news is most people don't really care about your music collection. When you're dead and gone most of it will just be one more thing the people in charge of your estate will have to get rid of. Or the person(s) bequeathed will have to find room for in their home. At least the digital items can be easily deleted. ;)

No that isn't right. There are estate sales for one thing. In my case my father has told me he is leaving me his Dylan vinyl. I appreciate it as a fan but more importantly there is sentimental value in the gesture that cannot be described.

The more I think a about it, the more I dislike the idea of purchasing media in this manner.

jmcrutch
Jun 2, 2011, 03:22 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

These comments remind me of the comments made when the first iPod was announced.

The one thing that is consistent around here is the aggressive pessimism, that tends to miss the boat.

Krandor
Jun 2, 2011, 03:22 PM
All I would like in a cloud like service is to be able to access stuff in my iTunes at home remotely. basically Home Sharing over 3G. Then add in the ability to update and "sync" wirelessly so I don't have to plug in the cable at all and I'll be happy. That is a cloud service I could support and would use a lot.

Tones2
Jun 2, 2011, 03:23 PM
I've not heard ANY rumors on this, so probably not, but any opinions on the possibility that iCloud will ALSO include a subscription service (as an option for an additional fee) in combination with the iCloud? It would make sense to do this now when they are already negotiating with the major labels.

Tony

icstars989
Jun 2, 2011, 03:24 PM
Pass. If all they're gonna do is allow you to store songs you've already purchased through itunes, then why bother cutting these music leeches in on any of it? I'm beginning to like Amazon's and Googles approach more and more. If it does come in the future, why not just worry about royalties then, its obviously not a big enough deal from the get go.

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:24 PM
So if you have a large music and movie collection on vinyl/silicon, you can leave that to someone in your will. But what about digital purchases? If I collect thousands of dollars of media over my lifetime, can I leave it to someone in my will? Will amazon switch my kindle content to another's account as my will states? Will Apple move my itunes music to another person's account for me?

I'd rather spend $1.30 on a song that dies with me than $15 on a song that I can give to my kids.

Ok, I get less when I buy digital...but I'm spending way, way less too.

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 03:25 PM
The good news is most people don't really care about your music collection. When you're dead and gone most of it will just be one more thing the people in charge of your estate will have to get rid of. Or the person(s) bequeathed will have to find room for in their home. At least the digital items can be easily deleted. ;)

Who in his/her right mind throughs away a fine vinyl collection?

optophobia
Jun 2, 2011, 03:26 PM
Amazon, Google, Best Buy, WalMart, Microsoft... it was nice knowin' ya.

......... prime example of a fanboy

newagemac
Jun 2, 2011, 03:26 PM
When will the sound quality on tracks from iTunes be improved? 128 to 160? That's all I care about

It's been at 256 AAC for quite some time.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:28 PM
I'd rather spend $1.30 on a song that dies with me than $15 on a song that I can give to my kids.

Ok, I get less when I buy digital...but I'm spending way, way less too.

That's you.

Not me.

And good artists make albums worth listening to. Buying one song is not the same as buying an album.

Look at the total purchase amount after 10 years and see how you feel about not being able to give it away to family. Even if you spent only $100 over a period of time, you should still be able to give that purchased music away.

emvath
Jun 2, 2011, 03:29 PM
Lol, i just looked. 2 out of my 13,838 songs were purchased from iTunes. I can't wait to access those two from the cloud! :rolleyes:

OzyOly
Jun 2, 2011, 03:31 PM
Lol, i just looked. 2 out of my 13,838 songs were purchased from iTunes. I can't wait to access those two from the cloud! :rolleyes:

But they will sound better from the cloud and you can slightly tilt your iphone in someone's direction to show off the iCloud logo while in starbucks. I can't wait to do this either. :cool:

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:31 PM
Look at the total purchase amount after 10 years and see how you feel about not being able to give it away to family. Even if you spent only $100 over a period of time, you should still be able to give that purchased music away.

My mom has a ton of vinyl she can't give to me.

I mean, she can, but what am I gonna do with it?

In other words, what makes our generation ANY different from the last one? I can't get my mom's music and I can't give my music to my kids.

You're acting like this is some new evil plot. It's the same thing all over again.

m3coolpix
Jun 2, 2011, 03:31 PM
So if you have a large music and movie collection on vinyl/silicon, you can leave that to someone in your will. But what about digital purchases? If I collect thousands of dollars of media over my lifetime, can I leave it to someone in my will? Will amazon switch my kindle content to another's account as my will states? Will Apple move my itunes music to another person's account for me?

Will the cost of a lawyer to get them to do this be greater than the purchase price of the media?

And what about gifting things while your alive? If I buy a CD I can give it away. Can I decide I don't want that album anymore and send it as a gift to someone and lose access to it myself?

I have a lot of reservations about digital purchases. I've started to embrace it a little for Kindle content but I hope I don't regret it. I purchase some music digitally when it is one song. But if I like the new music and decide to get the album I go after the physical purchase still.

You sound like my Dad ;)....BUT.....that's OK.....cause I finally turned into my Dad :eek::eek: a little over 8.5 years ago when my first kid was born. Amazing how that happens! :):)

Now....I'm wondering how this offering is going to compete with MOG and Slacker's premium options.... I'm loving it right now with MOG (about to ditch Slacker).

I get Almost any CD I want downloaded to my iP4 into the MOG app at CD quality (or streamed on my MACs via Safari which then get streamed to my home system) for $10/month.....and I doubt I'll be buying anytime soon from iTunes or Amazon or any physical CDs.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:34 PM
Who in his/her right mind throughs away a fine vinyl collection?

I know right?

The more I think about it the more vinyl sounds like a good investment. I've been purchasing a few albums a year but I may buy more.

With less being sold, the future collector items will be even more rare.

I've noticed in my local record store that the amount of vinyl is increasing. When you think of it, vinyl is the logical alternative for local stores to offer. It is larger than a CD so as an art form it is nicer. And it is not digital. A CD is just a digital purchase in another form. And no matter how rare they become, I don't see CD's ever having the collector's value that vinyl does.

One album I bought recently was well thought out. It came with a miniature sleeve inside that contained the CD version. So you got two for one.

Anyway there is always a chance that physical media you purchase now might have increased value several decades form now. There is zero chance of downloaded media having any value.

interestedabit
Jun 2, 2011, 03:38 PM
I know right?

You know, right? What is that supposed to mean? Makes no sense at all.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:39 PM
My mom has a ton of vinyl she can't give to me.

I mean, she can, but what am I gonna do with it?

In other words, what makes our generation ANY different from the last one? I can't get my mom's music and I can't give my music to my kids.

You're acting like this is some new evil plot. It's the same thing all over again.

No it is not an evil plot I'm describing. It is just something to think about.

And I do not understand this business about "not getting" the previous generation's music. I know people my own age like that. It makes no sense. The artists you listen to did not spring up in a vacuum. They had influences.

Rejecting music because there is some fictitious expiration date is ridiculous. I have music from current day to back in the 1920's. Today I might listen to a brand new album and tomorrow Glenn Miller fits my mood.

You know, right? What is that supposed to mean? Makes no sense at all.

I know right?

Piggie
Jun 2, 2011, 03:40 PM
My mom has a ton of vinyl she can't give to me.

I mean, she can, but what am I gonna do with it?

In other words, what makes our generation ANY different from the last one? I can't get my mom's music and I can't give my music to my kids.

You're acting like this is some new evil plot. It's the same thing all over again.

What are you going to do with it?
Well, you could buy a turntable and enjoy the music your mum gave to you.
If you wished you could also digitise the music so you can enjoy the albums on a mp3 music player.
You have many options, one you have the originals (the vinyl records themselves)

Why can't you give YOUR music to your kids?
The mp3 files are not DRM locked to your computer are they?

It's a sad day when older generations can not pass on things they enjoyed to their children.

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:41 PM
And I do not understand this business about "not getting" the previous generation's music. I know people my own age like that. It makes no sense. The artists you listen to did not spring up in a vacuum. They had influences.


"Not getting" means "What am I going to do with a record?"

I own many of the songs my mom owns. I enjoy them! I did it by buying either CDs or digital copies of those same songs.

So I had to re-buy the music my mom owned. My kids will have to re-buy what I owned. I don't see the difference.

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:44 PM
If you wished you could also digitise the music so you can enjoy the albums on a mp3 music player.
You have many options, one you have the originals (the vinyl records themselves)

I could spend the time to get an inferior copy, or I could just re-buy it. I opted to spend the money.


Why can't you give YOUR music to your kids?
The mp3 files are not DRM locked to your computer are they?


Sure. I plan to. I'm responding to ten-oak-druid who is convinced that won't work. You'll have to ask him why he thinks that.

I DO PLAN to give my music to my kids. I'm responding to tell him that even if that doens't work then we'll just be right back where we started. (But to be clear, I think it will work. I'm basically arguing about something that I don't even think will be a problem.)

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:46 PM
"Not getting" means "What am I going to do with a record?"

I own many of the songs my mom owns. I enjoy them! I did it by buying either CDs or digital copies of those same songs.

So I had to re-buy the music my mom owned. My kids will have to re-buy what I owned. I don't see the difference.

I thought you meant you didn't want to listen to it.

But don't shrug off wasting money. It might not always be so easy to come by. Perhaps you will wish you could give you kids the digital copies you purchased someday. Especially if the times are hard and you invested thousands.

At least with a CD they can import what they want.

Anyway its not worth arguing about. It is a choice. For me digitally downloaded music is going to be a very small part of my music library.

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:49 PM
Perhaps you will wish you could give you kids the digital copies you purchased someday.

As I said to the other guy, I fully plan on doing that. So I'm still not clear what's supposed to happen to it all between now and then.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 2, 2011, 03:50 PM
I could spend the time to get an inferior copy, or I could just re-buy it. I opted to spend the money.



Sure. I plan to. I'm responding to ten-oak-druid who is convinced that won't work. You'll have to ask him why he thinks that.

I DO PLAN to give my music to my kids. I'm responding to tell him that even if that doens't work then we'll just be right back where we started. (But to be clear, I think it will work. I'm basically arguing about something that I don't even think will be a problem.)

Ah - good point. It has been so long since I purchased the music through itunes that I tend to forget the DRM is not there. I guess the argument I am making is more to do with the movies and books than the music. These still have the protection.

So I guess you can leave the itunes (or other) purchased music to others. They should be able to take it without the account information.

For me, I'm using a kindle and have been purchasing some books. My favorite authors I buy hard cover but for some light reading I'm going digital. But this has been on my mind. I'm debating how much of the digital books I should purchase for this very reason. Hopefully this gets worked out eventually.


As I said to the other guy, I fully plan on doing that. So I'm still not clear what's supposed to happen to it all between now and then.

My bad. I was still thinking of the days of DRM.

You sound like my Dad ;)....BUT.....that's OK.....cause I finally turned into my Dad :eek::eek: a little over 8.5 years ago when my first kid was born. Amazing how that happens! :):)


LOL

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 03:50 PM
I know right?

The more I think about it the more vinyl sounds like a good investment. I've been purchasing a few albums a year but I may buy more.

With less being sold, the future collector items will be even more rare.

I've noticed in my local record store that the amount of vinyl is increasing. When you think of it, vinyl is the logical alternative for local stores to offer. It is larger than a CD so as an art form it is nicer. And it is not digital. A CD is just a digital purchase in another form. And no matter how rare they become, I don't see CD's ever having the collector's value that vinyl does.

One album I bought recently was well thought out. It came with a miniature sleeve inside that contained the CD version. So you got two for one.

Anyway there is always a chance that physical media you purchase now might have increased value several decades form now. There is zero chance of downloaded media having any value.

Agreed on all points. I bought recently Blue October Approaching Normal Limited Edition vinyl. No digital thing can beat that.

rogo
Jun 2, 2011, 03:52 PM
This "service" is absolutely positively DOA.

First of all, nearly no one has a huge portion of their music bought from iTunes.

Second of all, even people in the category that do already can largely carry said music with them on whatever device they have.

This is about as uninteresting as it gets.

Dear Apple, buy Rhapsody and Pandora. Integrate them and make them better. You will sell more subscriptions in three months than the industry has sold in 10 years. You will make the music industry and yourselves lots of money.

This "service" is going to make Ping seem like a gigantic success.

Small White Car
Jun 2, 2011, 03:52 PM
Ah - good point. It has been so long since I purchased the music through itunes that I tend to forget the DRM is not there.

Ok, this makes everything make much more sense.

I'm with ya'.

Yeah, I won't buy e-books and whenever I buy a movie on iTunes I basically think of it as an expensive rental. So I don't do that much either.

malnar
Jun 2, 2011, 03:55 PM
This is looking more and more like one of the ancient, now-famous threads from when the iPod launched and everyone ranted about how it was a pointless product, it's been done before and better/cheaper/etc. Can't wait to look back in 5 years and see how ridiculous all this looks. This is the future, grumps.

Žalgiris
Jun 2, 2011, 04:00 PM
This "service" is absolutely positively DOA.

First of all, nearly no one has a huge portion of their music bought from iTunes.

Second of all, even people in the category that do already can largely carry said music with them on whatever device they have.

This is about as uninteresting as it gets.

Dear Apple, buy Rhapsody and Pandora. Integrate them and make them better. You will sell more subscriptions in three months than the industry has sold in 10 years. You will make the music industry and yourselves lots of money.

This "service" is going to make Ping seem like a gigantic success.

I'm adding this as iCal reminder just in case. Who knows maybe i will have a laugh or two.

Tones2
Jun 2, 2011, 04:05 PM
This is looking more and more like one of the ancient, now-famous threads from when the iPod launched and everyone ranted about how it was a pointless product, it's been done before and better/cheaper/etc. Can't wait to look back in 5 years and see how ridiculous all this looks. This is the future, grumps.

This is totally NOT the future. Cheaper storage is the future. This is a temporary stopgap measure until current storage technology (i.e. NAND Flash) can again produce much higher capacity in a single chip at a much lower cost. There is no substitute for local storage - it just needs to get cheaper at larger capacities. Why would anyone want to pay for increased data AND this service only to get poorer quality streams over inconsistent coverage when you can just have it on your device, metadata and all.

Tony

juicedropsdeuce
Jun 2, 2011, 04:12 PM
I find it so quaint that people still buy music from iTunes. :apple:

juicedropsdeuce
Jun 2, 2011, 04:15 PM
Lol, i just looked. 2 out of my 13,838 songs were purchased from iTunes. I can't wait to access those two from the cloud! :rolleyes:

Good thing most people don't buy from iTunes. The crappy cell service in the US wouldn't be able to handle anything more than this microscopic fraction of music that people own. :apple:

Nuvi
Jun 2, 2011, 04:20 PM
So, I have to pay $25 to stream the songs that I bought from iTunes :eek:?!?! This service is DOA for me if this is really true.

mentholiptus
Jun 2, 2011, 04:21 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I can't see the recording industry ever allowing Apple to store music acquired outside of iTunes. So the service will be pretty useless to me. Most of my music is purchased through Amazon these days and that isn't going to change no matter how cool Apple's service turns out to be.

I appreciate you letting me know you already don't like it. I hope the service is able to succeed without you on board.

tripjammer
Jun 2, 2011, 04:26 PM
You guys want to much...how in the hell do you think you are going up upload music bought from amazon into icloud on day one? Or music you ripped from the internet from day one? Its all about itunes in the cloud baby. Get real and get with iCloud!

Amazon will not be dead...but the music industry will come down on them hard for not licensing....same thing to google...Apple once again got the music industry locked up...now if they can do the same with video...its all over.

Nuvi
Jun 2, 2011, 04:42 PM
You guys want to much...how in the hell do you think you are going up upload music bought from amazon into icloud on day one? Or music you ripped from the internet from day one? Its all about itunes in the cloud baby. Get real and get with iCloud!

Amazon will not be dead...but the music industry will come down on them hard for not licensing....same thing to google...Apple once again got the music industry locked up...now if they can do the same with video...its all over.

Amazon gives you 20GB of free space to upload the songs you've purchased from outside Amazon store. Apple should offer very least the same in day one if they want to stay competitive in services. Then again Apple has screwed up iTools, .Mac, MobileMe so it isn't a huge shocker if they manage to screw up this too. Regarding Amazon and Google there is no sign that labels are trying to stop their cloud services. I'll bet they had more room to move in their original distribution agreements then Apple so they can offer cloud services without renegotiations.

IbisDoc
Jun 2, 2011, 04:54 PM
Where do people listen to their digital music? On a subway? Cloud is useless. On a flight? Cloud is useless. In the car? Better avoid tunnels or dead spots. Have a capped data plan? Better get out the lube.

Basically the cloud appears to be made for listening to music at home (where there is usually no storage limitation) or work, or someplace else that has wifi access. BFD. It's much ado about nothing.

Cascadians
Jun 2, 2011, 05:21 PM
99% of my music is imported from CDs. I like having the original CDs -- not that I use them anymore, because putting playlist on shuffle and airplaying over 11 speakers is too good. Most of the music is not even available on iTunes.

Kirtan / mantra / bhajan. Been collecting for over 40 years. Esoteric and heavenly.

What Apple really should do is build a library in the Cloud of all music that everybody has, and then hunt down the musicians and pay *them* to officially let Apple include it for purchase.

There's some awesome cassettes I have not had time to convert to iTunes songs. Would love to buy them from somebody who's done the work. Also have some amazing LPs that were not put on CDs. Same thing, would like to buy those songs. Someday I'll have time to convert them myself.

richman555
Jun 2, 2011, 05:35 PM
I have tried the Amazon service as I have 'Prime'.

The one flaw is that it takes forever to upload albums on a cable modem.

Depending on your internet upload speeds, have fun!

cvaldes
Jun 2, 2011, 05:43 PM
I find it so quaint that people still buy music from iTunes. :apple:
Yeah, so do artists.

philipk
Jun 2, 2011, 05:45 PM
So, I have to pay $25 to stream the songs that I bought from iTunes :eek:?!?! This service is DOA for me if this is really true.

I am with you on this point.

If the rumors are correct and you can only stream what you bought from the iTunes store the service is DOA.

Again, if the rumors are correct, it is the fault of the music industry and not Apple. The industry is so short sighted!!!!

KTF
Jun 2, 2011, 06:13 PM
Lol, i just looked. 2 out of my 13,838 songs were purchased from iTunes. I can't wait to access those two from the cloud! :rolleyes:
That One Made My Day :D

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 2, 2011, 06:29 PM
Well lets see how this works on capped data plans for iPhones

It's going to be great. You can pay more to Apple so you can stream music you already bought from this iCloud while burning bandwidth so you can pay more to your 3G provider as soon as you run through the limit. For example, AT&Ts bigger limit is 2G or (2000MB) for $25. I just checked the sizes of lots of my iTunes plus songs and they seem to range between about 7MB and about 14MB. 2000MB/10MB per song means that I can burn through that $25 by streaming ONE 10MB iTunes Plus song 200 times, or maybe a 200 song playlist ONE time.

Now, I don't track exactly how many songs I listen to every day, but let's say I want to listen to 1 hour of iCloud streamed music each day (maybe just on the commute). 1 hour of 4 minute songs is 15 songs. So every 13.33 days I can burn through my entire allotment of 2GB for $25 from AT&T on music listening alone.

If I average about 1 hour of music streaming each day for a month, it appears that I would burn through about 5GB from AT&T which can be had for (I presume) around $50 per month. If I listen to about 2 hours of music streaming each day for month, I'll use about 10GB for around $80 per month. Both assume I stream nothing else at all- just songs. If I also take a look at a few youtube videos, watch some netflix or similar, etc... watch out!

Just think how much lighter your wallet will be!!! Doesn't Apple love "thinner & lighter"? "Introducing the iWallet... thinner & lighter than ever".

Or I can just sync the songs to the iDevice, have no iCloud fee and no AT&T 3G bandwidth burn for nothing. Hmmm. Convenience has some value but that seems to be pushing it.

Note that once movies are available in iCloud, just ONE movie can be >2GB. Stream it via AT&T 3G for $25+ or own the DVD, rip it and sync?

I guess I just don't get it. I think the concept of iCloud is fantastic. It just falls down when we have to access that cloud via AT&T or Verizon.

Now off the patent office to try to lock up iWallet.

ghostface147
Jun 2, 2011, 07:45 PM
Well lets see how this works on capped data plans for iPhones

For those that have caps. AT&T doesn't cap me.

mrgstiffler
Jun 2, 2011, 08:30 PM
I can understand paying Apple for the service. It's going use a lot of bandwidth and it costs them quite a bit to support it. But why the hell should record labels get a cut of that? They already got their money when I bought the music. Why should they get more now that I want to listen to it? Screw that. I'll still with Squeezebox Server.

E.Lizardo
Jun 2, 2011, 08:42 PM
As long as it's itunes purchased music only it's a spectacular fail for my money.Might be just the ticket for those who buy all theirs from Apple though.With the next iPhone hopefully having 64 GB,and pandora etc.,it will be interesting to see how it flies.

Billy Boo Bob
Jun 2, 2011, 08:46 PM
So if all the Apple service lets me do is stream the music I've already bought, which I probably have on my device anyway.... am I missing something?

I think the idea (at least partially) is to do similar with iTunes purchased music, for those have lots of it especially, as the other services... If you are at a friends place or at work you can just open a browser and log into your iCloud account and access your (purchased) music. No need to transfer files from device to device. Also, I think it will help with the "my iPod doesn't have enough storage space left (after loading it up with video) to store all of my music" problem... What do I want to take with me on the road today?

My 2.5¢

david77
Jun 2, 2011, 08:50 PM
I think the idea (at least partially) is to do similar with iTunes purchased music, for those have lots of it especially, as the other services... If you are at a friends place or at work you can just open a browser and log into your iCloud account and access your (purchased) music. No need to transfer files from device to device. Also, I think it will help with the "my iPod doesn't have enough storage space left (after loading it up with video) to store all of my music" problem... What do I want to take with me on the road today?

My 2.5¢

It would also free up physical space internally, making room to add new hardware features.

Mak47
Jun 2, 2011, 08:52 PM
I think this serves one main purpose:

It creates an online backup of your iTunes purchases. It's amazing to me how many people buy tons of music on their phones or iPods and NEVER sync them. If you buy $1000 worth of content, don't sync it and then you break or lose your device--you're screwed. This is the first step in eliminating the sync necessity which is overbearing if you use multiple computers/wireless devices.

What if you're a kid who uses iTunes cards to buy content? You do it on your iPod or iPhone and the family computer is a jumbled mess of accounts and craziness. Problem solved.

The iTunes hub/sync thing is outdated, it needs to go and this will be the first step in doing that. I don't expect people to use streaming on a regular basis, and I'll bet Apple doesn't either.

currentinterest
Jun 2, 2011, 11:01 PM
I will wager that iCloud will be much more than the storage of music content. My guess is we will see the syncing of all devices and access to all files from any device. This will mean music stored on a computer accessible drive will be available to all devices and iTunes purchases will not need to be stored locally at all if one elects not to do so. Further, if the record labels get a fee for allowing storage of any song, then that becomes a way of gaining revenue from copied music.

scarnie
Jun 3, 2011, 12:02 AM
I can't see the recording industry ever allowing Apple to store music acquired outside of iTunes. So the service will be pretty useless to me. Most of my music is purchased through Amazon these days and that isn't going to change no matter how cool Apple's service turns out to be.

Why? Storing music on a hosted server that is only accessible by the owner has nothing to do with the recording industry. It's no different to online backup, me hosting my own server with RackSpace or using DropBox.

ABernardoJr
Jun 3, 2011, 01:39 AM
I think this serves one main purpose:

It creates an online backup of your iTunes purchases. It's amazing to me how many people buy tons of music on their phones or iPods and NEVER sync them. If you buy $1000 worth of content, don't sync it and then you break or lose your device--you're screwed. This is the first step in eliminating the sync necessity which is overbearing if you use multiple computers/wireless devices.

What if you're a kid who uses iTunes cards to buy content? You do it on your iPod or iPhone and the family computer is a jumbled mess of accounts and craziness. Problem solved.

The iTunes hub/sync thing is outdated, it needs to go and this will be the first step in doing that. I don't expect people to use streaming on a regular basis, and I'll bet Apple doesn't either.

Something I was hoping they'd go through with was allowing people to download their purchases from iTunes more than once if necessary. While that wouldn't be fun having to download $1000 worth of songs, it would be nice to know that you at least wouldn't have to pay for them again (if you didn't back them up)

Cougarcat
Jun 3, 2011, 01:41 AM
Something I was hoping they'd go through with was allowing people to download their purchases from iTunes more than once if necessary. While that wouldn't be fun having to download $1000 worth of songs, it would be nice to know that you at least wouldn't have to pay for them again (if you didn't back them up)

Apple is actually really forgiving about this is if you contact them.

Lunarstone
Jun 3, 2011, 03:23 AM
How about working on getting an iTunes Music Store in more countries first?

SeaFox
Jun 3, 2011, 07:20 AM
I could care less about this cloud music service. Just get me the MobileMe services I have right now for significantly less if not free and I'll consider this new service a win.

The Phazer
Jun 3, 2011, 08:11 AM
This is looking more and more like one of the ancient, now-famous threads from when the iPod launched and everyone ranted about how it was a pointless product, it's been done before and better/cheaper/etc. Can't wait to look back in 5 years and see how ridiculous all this looks. This is the future, grumps.

People also said the same about Ping. And people said that they were being over cynical and that they were wrong about the iPod.

Doesn't make Ping any less of a disaster, does it?

Unless there is some radical element of this that's not known yet, this is a waste of time (just as Amazon etc's are). It strikes me as nothing more than a very expensive and not very good backup service. The time and effort could have been spent licencing content so I could connect my iPod/iPhone to any of my computers (tie it to my 5 authorised machines if you want) and freely copy and paste music between them. That would have made a dramatic difference in ease of use and helping people out who's computers die.

Phazer

milo
Jun 3, 2011, 09:19 AM
Good start, but Amazon has everything you purchase stored in addition to whatever you already have. Apple's service is substandard if true.

Don't you have to upload everything to Amazon, and it's a pretty limited amount of space? Amazon seems to have their own set of disadvantages as well, not to mention that there's the question of whether they'll get sued over it and whether they'll be able to continue the service as it exists.


I purchased 0% of my music from iTunes and have no plans to ever buy any music or movies from iTunes either.

Not looking good for me, and others like me is it? :(

In your case, it seems like it doesn't matter what Apple offers.


So I had to re-buy the music my mom owned.

No you didn't. Of course it's more convenient to buy either a CD or digital file than to digitize a vinyl album, but you didn't HAVE to re-buy it.

The situation is very different between having the option of handing a DVD to your kid (which they may or may not want) and lacking the option to do the same because of DRM and accounts.


First of all, nearly no one has a huge portion of their music bought from iTunes.

True for most existing consumers particularly older ones. But what about younger consumers who are just starting out? iTunes is the biggest seller of music right now, if you're buying much of your content from there anyway this is an extra feature. Not to mention that the details haven't been announced yet, it's entirely possible that this could include a subscription option instead of buying songs, either right away or added down the road.

Good thing most people don't buy from iTunes.

If that were the case, how do they manage to be the top music seller in the US?

AaronTheYoung
Jun 3, 2011, 10:37 AM
I can understand how the cloud will be cool in the future when network bandwidth is huge and cheap and everyone has it everywhere. But right now, bandwidth is not everywhere.

I can't imagine putting all my files on the iCloud, only to get slow access to them. Is mobile bandwidth really there already? The firm I work for only has a 10 mbps connection, how does that help us with the iCloud?

What happens when I drive from town to town and the only access I have is EDGE or none at all? No access to my files. That's lame. I will always want local, fast access to my files.

The Cloud has a lot to do before I believe in its claims.

Aaron
~

OllyW
Jun 3, 2011, 10:43 AM
If that were the case, how do they manage to be the top music seller in the US?

They may be the top music seller but twice as many customers purchase their music from other retailers so the statement was correct.

JazzCollector
Jun 3, 2011, 11:03 AM
I too am disappointed that iCloud will not allow uploading of music. iTunes carries about 50% of what's in my collection at best, the rest is either long out of print or offered on a mom & pop jazz label.

With the acquisition of Lala behind at least some of this technology, limiting cloud storage to only iTune store music was a business decision. And it was a bad business decision. Sorry Steve, it happens.

I will stay away from iCloud because I feel that I am not the target customer. It's clear to me that niche music fans will need to seek out a different solution. And this bears itself out not only in the way the iCloud will be rolled out, it's also visible in the lack of development in some mature product features.

I've given up waiting for Apple to improve Genius. It sees only about 5% of my music collection. Unfortunately it's the bottom 5% of smooth/pop oriented jazz that I only play when entertaining. It can't locate current jazz artists, doesn't know some very common jazz tunes, and can't differentiate different styles of jazz. This is a serious error too. It would be nice if Apple would hire someone with a jazz background. We may make up a small percentage of the music industry, but I bet a jazz fan buys 10x the amount of music compared to the general public.

Renverse
Jun 3, 2011, 07:31 PM
I was hoping for something like Zune Pass. Zune pass lets you stream ANY song from the cloud, and keep 10 songs a month forever.

If storing your iTunes bought music to the cloud and play it is the only thing this does, then it's not worth it for me.

YourHerojb
Jun 3, 2011, 09:14 PM
Could be the first step to having iPods with remote, limitless memory as opposed to onboard drives.

cr2sh
Jun 3, 2011, 10:08 PM
Is it just me or does north america look like some-sort of sheep dragon.

caspersoong
Jun 4, 2011, 02:30 AM
It's up to Steve to make this thing that seems worthless to me, something useful.

jonnysods
Jun 4, 2011, 06:02 PM
Man this is gonna be great!