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MacRumors
Jun 5, 2011, 09:02 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/05/new-time-capsules-to-act-as-hub-for-icloud-data-syncing/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/time_capsule_leap_forward.jpg

(http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/time_capsule_leap_forward.jpg)
Cult of Mac reports (http://www.cultofmac.com/what-is-steve-jobs-announcing-monday-heres-the-scoop-about-icloud-time-capsules/98640) that it has received information indicating that revamped versions (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/03/new-time-capsules-to-run-ios-on-a4a5-processors/) of Apple's Time Capsule wireless router/hard drive combination will serve as the hub for iCloud data syncing, with data stored directly on the device rather than on Apple's servers.Our source didn't have any information about the hardware, but detailed how the Home Folder access system works. Files saved on your computer are backed up instantly to Time Capsule, which makes them available to remote Macs and iOS devices.

If you make any changes on any computer, those changes are updated through iCloud and stored on your Time Capsule. The Time Capsule archives and serves up your files even when your computers are off. When you get home and fire up your desktop computer or laptop, the files are automatically synced across your devices.

This service will also allow you to upload photos and videos from your iPhone or iPad to your Time Capsule. The media will be stored on the device and be made available for other devices to sync. iCloud is the "conduit" through which everything moves, the source said.

"Your computer gets backed up to Time Capsule anyways," said the source. "Now it'll serve up your content when you want it, where you want it, right there on your iOS device."The source reports that this implementation of a local iCloud is "fully baked" and ready for deployment in future versions of Mac OS X and iOS, although there has been no hint of the functionality in developer seeds of Mac OS X Lion seen thus far. It is also unclear how such a system would integrate with the iCloud music streaming service, as a number of reports in the mainstream media suggested more of a true cloud-based system for that aspect of things, with Apple able to scan users' iTunes libraries and simply provide streaming access to those tracks from any device connected to the user's iCloud.

As noted by MyService (http://www.myservice.com/blog/2011/06/icloud-%E2%80%93-twenty-years-in-the-making/), Apple's idea of a local cloud network dates back twenty years, with Steve Jobs having detailed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEXae1j6EY&feature=player_embedded#t=790s) some of the advantages of such a setup during a Q&A session at WWDC in 1997. (Discussion begins at around 13:10 mark.)

3LEXae1j6EY
Cult of Mac's claims harken back to a report (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/14/mobileme-revamp-to-focus-on-streaming-data-from-individual-machines-not-cloud/) from The Loop's Jim Dalrymple back in mid-February in which he claimed that cloud-based strategy for a revamped MobileMe would in fact be focused on streaming data from users' machines rather hosting it directly on Apple's servers. A local cloud stored on a Time Capsule device would seem to be a middle-of-the-road solution offering much of what Dalrymple proposed while avoiding the need to keep a source computer awake and running for the service to function.

We'll certainly be learning more about iCloud tomorrow as Steve Jobs takes the stage for the keynote at this year's Worldwide Developers Conference at 10:00 AM Pacific Time / 1:00 PM Eastern Time. MacRumors will be providing live coverage of the keynote via MacRumorsLive and Twitter.

Article Link: New Time Capsules Rather Than Apple's Servers to Act as Hub for iCloud Data Syncing? (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/05/new-time-capsules-to-act-as-hub-for-icloud-data-syncing/)



macography.net
Jun 5, 2011, 09:07 AM
I think that Apple is going to introduce a public + private cloud. That is probably needed because of the limited broadband speeds that we still have and to increase the usability of the solutions Apple has in mind (think of OTA iOS updates etc.).

VaatiKaiba
Jun 5, 2011, 09:07 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong and being silly, but why are new TCs needed for this? Couldn't this be implemented through a software update on older models?

And doesn't this sound more like 'Back to my Time Capsule' instead of iCloud?

ckorhonen
Jun 5, 2011, 09:10 AM
Great, it makes a lot of sense.

If my time machine was my primary document store, and also served up my music and video to Apple TVs then it addresses my primary desire which is not to have to leave my Mac on all the time.

I'd still expect this to be mirrored on Apples servers too - what if my time capsule hard drive dies? Perhaps the new time capsule will be marketed as an extra to the iCloud service? Not required but something that will make a material difference.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 09:11 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong and being silly, but why are new TCs needed for this? Couldn't this be implemented through a software update on older models?

And doesn't this sound more like 'Back to my Time Capsule' instead of iCloud?

Sounds more like a Pogoplug.

I really hope it isn't this as it will be horribly disappointing.

anti-microsoft
Jun 5, 2011, 09:12 AM
I think that Apple is going to introduce a public + private cloud. That is probably needed because of the limited broadband speeds that we still have and to increase the usability of the solutions Apple has in mind (think of OTA iOS updates etc.). I wrote about this last Friday in case you are interested.

http://bit.ly/iB0fyW

Interesting article. Let's hope iCloud offers something along these lines.

ckorhonen
Jun 5, 2011, 09:13 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong and being silly, but why are new TCs needed for this? Couldn't this be implemented through a software update on older models?

And doesn't this sound more like 'Back to my Time Capsule' instead of iCloud?

My suspicion, if the new time capsule software is iOS based, is that some of the older models may not have the required hardware to run it (CPU, memory, storage). I know they have an ARM chip inside of them, but I was under the impression it wasn't all that powerful.

SB27
Jun 5, 2011, 09:14 AM
If they can nail down the security side of this, it could be very useful. We all own about 3-4 Mac/iOS devices. Why not have them work better together?

Wurm5150
Jun 5, 2011, 09:15 AM
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FAIL! If iCloud requires everyone to buy Time Capsule for it to work..

manhattanboy
Jun 5, 2011, 09:16 AM
The original already provides web access LOL.
Also you have been able to stream movies and music from mobileme and dot mac for years.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 09:16 AM
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FAIL! If iCloud requires everyone to buy Time Capsule for it to work..

Then adoption is going to be worse than MobileMe.

But it's not a surprise given how Apple has screwed up their Internet strategy many times before.

Dcuellar
Jun 5, 2011, 09:18 AM
I've really tried to stay positive about what will be introduced on Monday, but this will not work for me. I am not going to purchase ANOTHER Time Capsule in order to have that feature. The TC I have now already handles N and is 2TB so I won't be needing a new TC to improve in any of those areas.

The way I see it is Apple will have to do 1 of two things in order to get me to buy into this cloud strategy.

Offer a Trade-In for TC owners.
Make it so the older TC's can be updated to include this instead of new hardware having to be purchased.

BayouTiger
Jun 5, 2011, 09:19 AM
Doesn't sound very useful with my <50k ADSL upload speed. Even Uverse is only 3mb upload.

SeattleMoose
Jun 5, 2011, 09:19 AM
A "local" cloud is much more appealing to me than having all my stuff "somewhere" available when all components "in the end to end path" from my ? to my Mac are having a "sunny day". Not to mention privacy issues....

That being said it will be interesting to see how "iCloud" evolves with Apple TV and iTunes content and "streaming".

Maybe tomorrow we'll have some answers.....

twoodcc
Jun 5, 2011, 09:20 AM
I think this would be a good way to go. It just better support external hard drives though

WiiDSmoker
Jun 5, 2011, 09:22 AM
I just want to be able to transfer movies/music/etc to my Apple TV or iPhone/iPad/iPod without the damn computer being on.

aibo82
Jun 5, 2011, 09:22 AM
Well done Apple!!!!!!

You have invented the NAS device!!!!!

Something them PC/mac Users have had for years, may I point you to a little company called www.synology.com

So how much is this new NAS capsule £300 with a £25 a year subscription?

Sinology is £150 and does far far more! And streams music is a web server,torrent downloader,CTV device,iTunes server and streams music to hifi's!

I love Apple products but this is a total Meh!!

blindzero
Jun 5, 2011, 09:22 AM
So this should serve everything you have not purchased in iTunes. I have always hated leaving my laptop on just to stream to the TV. Hope they make a firmware update for old capsules.

This would only be useful for in house though. Streaming from Time Capsule remotely would eat up 2 bandwidth limits. Your iOS device, and your home internet provider.

I set up a NAS last year and have gotten sick of how finnicky it is.

maclaptop
Jun 5, 2011, 09:23 AM
It's a stroke of genius for Apple and the worshippers nealt down before Steve.

The plan will sell more time capsules than ever. Brilliant.

cwoloszynski
Jun 5, 2011, 09:23 AM
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Finally a sensible cloud strategy. I don't want to depend on service providers always being there, but I like this approach. My data on my hardware with a service that augments it by making it easier to access. Brilliant.

jhall527
Jun 5, 2011, 09:26 AM
While it isn't as robust as this sounds, I can't see why would replace my Dropbox account. It's free and makes everything available on all of my devices instantly.

stridemat
Jun 5, 2011, 09:28 AM
The Time Capsule as your own personal server. It's been waiting to do this since it was introduced.

Cougarcat
Jun 5, 2011, 09:28 AM
If Apple wants something like this to take off, they need to price the hardware aggressively: low-end, bring-your-own HD version $99?

one09jason
Jun 5, 2011, 09:28 AM
I feel like this is a solution looking for a problem. Imagine being able to access your "stuff" from anywhere! Wow. You mean, the way I can when I carry a laptop - particularly a nice thin light one that Apple already makes?

Except, this would be slower.

ivladster
Jun 5, 2011, 09:30 AM
I hope you can plug a hard drive to AirPort Extreme and have an iCloud too. Really don't want to buy another router just for this.

Mr. Gates
Jun 5, 2011, 09:30 AM
While it isn't as robust as this sounds, I can't see why would replace my Dropbox account. It's free and makes everything available on all of my devices instantly.

How much storage do they give you for free?

stridemat
Jun 5, 2011, 09:30 AM
The Time Capsule as your own personal server. It's been waiting to do this since it was introduced.

Combine this with low storage SSD MBA's and you have the perfect mobile setup.

Full of Win
Jun 5, 2011, 09:30 AM
As long as they introduce a removable hard drive and disk duplication over USB...

Becordial
Jun 5, 2011, 09:31 AM
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Finally a sensible cloud strategy. I don't want to depend on service providers always being there, but I like this approach. My data on my hardware with a service that augments it by making it easier to access. Brilliant.

That's still relying upon two service providers being there though. Apple and the phone company.

manhattanboy
Jun 5, 2011, 09:31 AM
If they can nail down the security side of this, it could be very useful. We all own about 3-4 Mac/iOS devices. Why not have them work better together?

In my humble opinion the security is more of a technical problem. For example my home mac sat behind two servers each with a single IP that was then partitioned out. Allowing unrestricted access when your IP is not within your control and is changing daily sucks. That plus unreliable speeds is the main reason icloud will be web based.
As I mentioned above, you can stream movies and music already from mobilme to any device. I used to do that years back before switching to android, but actually have to still do it for the ipad (I'm away from my syncing mac computer for weeks sometimes).

klrobinson999
Jun 5, 2011, 09:32 AM
It's going to fail if people have to buy yet another component.

From a tech perspective it does seem ideal: localized cloud storage, backed-up to the web, accessible without the need for any other device to be running (such as the need to have your Mac powered up to access your iTunes library on the Apple TV). Throw in the fact that you'll be able to access that Time Capsule from anywhere and on any 3G or Wi-Fi network (assumed), and you've got a winner.

However, people will scoff at having to purchase another device. They better make it $99 if the want to sell any.

Will they eliminate Airport Extremes altogether and just offer one combo Time Capsule wireless access point/backup storage device? Since this is a completely new endeavor - a web-based personal server - I assume the product may get a new name.

aibo82
Jun 5, 2011, 09:33 AM
As long as they introduce a removable hard drive and disk duplication over USB...

Not a chance you have to sell your sole for an extra USB port on anything apple!

It will have a 30pin dock connector maybe and a butched non standard Sata drive screwed in with an inch of it's life!

KwanMan
Jun 5, 2011, 09:35 AM
I like this, this could mean they are launching 2 versions of iCloud. A paid for version which all your stuff is stored on their servers and a free version where you use your TC as the server. This would mean if you have a fast enough internet connection then you don't have to rent storage space off Apple servers.

cwoloszynski
Jun 5, 2011, 09:36 AM
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Well, only for the remote access part. The data still fundamentally resides on my devices. Loss if the service providers does not lose my data. Remember the sidekick disaster.

tbobmccoy
Jun 5, 2011, 09:38 AM
I like this, this could mean they are launching 2 versions of iCloud. A paid for version which all your stuff is stored on their servers and a free version where you use your TC as the server. This would mean if you have a fast enough internet connection then you don't have to rent storage space off Apple servers.

The catch here is upload speeds... Of which most home ISPs have very little of. My TWC service has 20Mbps down, but only 1.5Mbps up. This will cramp any sort of home cloud service.... :(

Xenc
Jun 5, 2011, 09:39 AM
That video was very interesting to watch!

I like how the dude who asked the question was like "Uh, yeah, that's great for Apple, but that's not what I asked" after Steve Jobs was done talking.

Awjvail
Jun 5, 2011, 09:41 AM
If this is the case, I'll be purchasing one ONLY because I'm in the market for a new Time Capsule, and only if it retains the same functionality and price point as the current one.

I wont use half of that crap.

JDENredden
Jun 5, 2011, 09:41 AM
They hate on PC for taking years to create Plug and Play. But it took them what 20 years to create a cloud interface?

SBlue1
Jun 5, 2011, 09:45 AM
If my time machine was my primary document store, and also served up my music and video to Apple TVs then it addresses my primary desire which is not to have to leave my Mac on all the time.

What a great idea! :eek:

The only reason why I am rooting for a bigger storage on the iPad before I buy one is that my music, movie and photocollection is bigger than the tiny 16, 32 or 64 Gigs of space the current models have and I do not wanna leave my Macbook on 24/7 and waste a lot of power just to stream content from it to my iDevices. Cloud compting was never really a serious thought cause of the lousy speed my internet has in my home. But this rumor would be a great deal!

Makes me so much more excited about tomorrow!

cwoloszynski
Jun 5, 2011, 09:48 AM
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That is the beauty of apple's IPv6 strategy. The TC can establish a tunnel to apple's cloud with NO need for making holes in your local firewall.

Apple the provides the DNS and packet forwarding to make accessing your TC simple.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 09:48 AM
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FAIL! If iCloud requires everyone to buy Time Capsule for it to work..

If this is true it will be just one of the ways iCloud will be used. They are not morons you know.

pmz
Jun 5, 2011, 09:50 AM
Seems like the Time Capsule will be a critical yet optional component of iCloud.

iCloud can be cheap and slow.

Or expensive and fast. Adding the Time Capsule will increase usefulness and efficiency, as well as several hundred dollars.

HelveticaNeue
Jun 5, 2011, 09:53 AM
If this is true, then I would be pretty excited. I have often longed for the ability to access my entire Home folder from my iOS devices. Hopefully documents I edit on the iPad in Pages would then be synced back to my home Mac. In fact, with Lion, when I open Pages on the Mac it may open up exactly where I left off on the iPad.

Hopefully, there would also be some kind of online space to access your home files as well, for when there is only PCs around you.

vincenz
Jun 5, 2011, 09:54 AM
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I'm not buying a new time capsule just for this. You're going to have to do better convincing than that.

Yvan256
Jun 5, 2011, 09:56 AM
What I'd like is for the new Time Capsule to be as small and as low-cost as the new Apple TV, with USB 2.0, FireWire 800 and ThunderBolt ports on the back for external drives, no built-in storage except maybe a few GB of flash for light users.

If it can also act as your iTunes home server, they'll sell millions of those.

iThinman
Jun 5, 2011, 09:57 AM
True Apple starting to shine through and show the masses why they chose PC's over the years.

Steve, you have the best touch screen with the greatest battery life!





...let the big boys take care of the rest of the puzzle.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 09:59 AM
If this is true, then I would be pretty excited. I have often longed for the ability to access my entire Home folder from my iOS devices. Hopefully documents I edit on the iPad in Pages would then be synced back to my home Mac. In fact, with Lion, when I open Pages on the Mac it may open up exactly where I left off on the iPad.

Hopefully, there would also be some kind of online space to access your home files as well, for when there is only PCs around you.

It makes perfect sense. I have a 2 TB Time Capsule, so i backup all my Macs anyway. Time Capsule is always connected to the internet, so even when i'm at work i will be able to sync my iPad or iPhone, download/upload files.

maclaptop
Jun 5, 2011, 10:00 AM
Apples ability to sell hardware is brilliant. Of even greater amusement is their ability to turn otherwise intelligent people into drones.

bretm
Jun 5, 2011, 10:01 AM
Most people don't have the upload speeds to do this. Cable modem broadband folks usually have upload of 1mb/sec, which is fine for audio and such, but iffy for video. Especially if you're running other computers and vonage, etc.

For DSL users getting half a mb/sec or less - forget it.

jeznav
Jun 5, 2011, 10:02 AM
I own a Dlink 323 NAS that also acts as a webserver, iTunes server and bittorrent and I also happen to have a Time Capsule for mac backups.

I don't think that the new TC would make any difference in terms of service and iCloud features even its new iOS running on Apple's A5 chip. iOS5 devices would careless about what model your TC server is running on. Its a server using with standard networking protocols so I think that we might see a firmware upgrade to older TC models. What Apple will be doing is rebranding the TC line and hype up the cloud features and also including A4/5 chips for power efficiency. Its not like its going to run iOS apps, its a server designed to store and deliver content which any NAS server can do.

However I could be wrong (ATV -Netflix vs ATV2), but I still have 80% confidence that its just going to be a firmware update to older TC users.

bretm
Jun 5, 2011, 10:02 AM
Apples ability to sell hardware is brilliant. Of even greater amusement is their ability to turn otherwise intelligent people into drones.

MS ability to sell OS and software is brilliant. Of even greater amusement is their ability to turn mindless drones into mindless drones.

Walfredo
Jun 5, 2011, 10:03 AM
do we need to purchase hardware to make this work? I'm not liking this idea. I mean Dropbox accomplishes this for my files. Other than using TC to upload time machine backups I see no value in this. Just my 2c.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 10:08 AM
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I'd say that if Apple have got this right they could indeed develop a new income stream for themselves. I bought a NAS last year but if this all converges as I hope, I'll be ditching it for Apple's offering. The NAS is fine for those with hours to kill setting up and maintaining the hardware, but I just want something I can just leave to it while I do something less boring instead.

If they price this right and aim it at the right market, the seamless backup, streaming etc could give them a new edge.

pyrodex
Jun 5, 2011, 10:11 AM
If you need a TC for this I am going to be pissed! I run a home RAID system using AFP/NetAtalk to serve my TC functions on my home network.

SisterRay
Jun 5, 2011, 10:11 AM
If Apple wants something like this to take off, they need to price the hardware aggressively: low-end, bring-your-own HD version $99?

No way people will pay £240 for time capsule to be able to do this. They will have to cut the price drastically. I wonder how they will get round this barrier to adoption without annoying people who have an existing time capsule

mtbgtr
Jun 5, 2011, 10:13 AM
Cheap, easy, secure and cross platform will make it a success. Potentially difficult to achieve, but anything less will be a struggle to get the masses to adopt. With Apple arriving late to the cloud game I suspect they will bring something innovative, why play second string?

dlucks
Jun 5, 2011, 10:14 AM
Not sure what Steve's upload speed is like over at the castle, but mine ain't fit for hosting/serving content to the wireless world.

Am i reading this right? I download a song from iTunes whilst sitting at my MBP in the living room. Then I jet out the door and wanna listen to it on my iPhone and I'm gonna wait while my TimeCapsule spins up and serves up and my phone starts pulling it in?

Remind me what those 500,000 sq ft of data center goodies are doing?

Awjvail
Jun 5, 2011, 10:17 AM
I hope they make it have the aluminum casing - the white plastic looks so 2006.

Gregintosh
Jun 5, 2011, 10:17 AM
I think this setup involving a TC to make things faster/smoother on the LOCAL NETWORK ONLY is genius.

If I want to play some music or movies via iCloud that I have stored in my home folder, I could stream them right off my own network so its faster and doesn't eat up my bandwidth cap.

But everything still needs to be really in the cloud too. What if I am a traveling sales person and my router at home shuts off for some reason, the HD fails, or another problem arises. I still need access to my files.

Plus, I bet Apple's servers will have much better upload speeds than my connection, so accessing "iCloud" on the go is going to be terrible unless I am getting the files off of Apple's servers.

And what if someone breaks into my house and steals my TC or there's a fire and it's destroyed. I have just lost all my files. That means I would need another backup solution. For me, the whole point of a cloud solution is so that I don't need to worry about losing my files again, which again the TC-only setup would fail at.

Now if iCloud is smart enough to figure out when I am at home and thus use my local storage (TC) or if I am outside and therefore use Apple's own servers, and it can do so seamlessly, now that's an improvement over DropBox and any other Cloud service.

At that point, Synching is not going to be an issue at home at all, since local speeds are super fast. And by the time I hit the road, I am sure that TC would have uploaded all the files in the background by then to the real iCloud.

So if this whole TC thing is that if you have a new one, it will make iCloud EVEN BETTER, then it's GENIUS.

If this whole TC thing IS the iCloud and you must have it on to share your files at all times, then its an EPIC FAIL.

ghostlines
Jun 5, 2011, 10:17 AM
This sounds good. TC won't be mandatory but would make it easier for slower connections I think. I hope they update TC with native IPv6, 6to4 is nice but would be even nicer to plan for the future and accommodate people with IPv6 ISP's.

And this way you have 2 copy's of your data adding redundancy.

deannnnn
Jun 5, 2011, 10:18 AM
That video was really ineresting. It's strange to see Steve promising that Apple is a great company that has yet to prove itself.

pmz
Jun 5, 2011, 10:20 AM
For those whining about upload speed, you're not getting it.

The Time Capsule stays put, connected to your home network. Backing up/syncing to it from Mac/iOS is fast. When that's done, you're free to go. Time Capsule will then upload to iCloud on its own time.

You don't have to sit there and wait for the painfully slow connection from TC up to iCloud.

But with FiOS I have 25 Mbps up anyway, so it shouldn't take too long.

ghostlines
Jun 5, 2011, 10:20 AM
Not sure what Steve's upload speed is like over at the castle, but mine ain't fit for hosting/serving content to the wireless world.

Am i reading this right? I download a song from iTunes whilst sitting at my MBP in the living room. Then I jet out the door and wanna listen to it on my iPhone and I'm gonna wait while my TimeCapsule spins up and serves up and my phone starts pulling it in?

Remind me what those 500,000 sq ft of data center goodies are doing?

Hmm doubt that, they struck a deal with the music labels for a reason. If you purchase something from iTunes they can verify that and transfer it from iCloud's master copy.

HelveticaNeue
Jun 5, 2011, 10:21 AM
Most people don't have the upload speeds to do this. Cable modem broadband folks usually have upload of 1mb/sec, which is fine for audio and such, but iffy for video.

If this rumor is true, I don't believe this service is meant for streaming video or syncing video. I believe iTunes iCloud sync is meant to do that, at least for video bought from iTunes. This Time Capsule sync I believe is meant mostly for photos and documents.

Cougarcat
Jun 5, 2011, 10:21 AM
I hope they make it have the aluminum casing - the white plastic looks so 2006.

AL wouldnt be the best for reception. I think black like the AppleTV would be a good guess.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 10:23 AM
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I agree that mirroring local backup on iCloud could work well. Presumably your iPhone etc would only connect locally when on your home wifi network. This would be usable for those who just wanted the iCloud storage but for those of us with backup needs etc, the TC route would be an optional upgrade.

I agree too that making the ATV act in a similar way would work well. The price difference between ATV and an external hard drive or an integrated TC isn't so much.

DotComName
Jun 5, 2011, 10:25 AM
Before cooking up these crackpot theories, has anyone stopped and thought about the fact that maybe Time Capsule is being discontinued as it has been proven to fail easily and with the use of Apple's servers and iCloud, a Time Capsule backup/sync home setup won't be necessary. Apple is into making better and more seamless experiences, not complicating things by forcing their customers to buy and setup a Time Capsule just to get a proper syncing/caching/backingup solution...

parapup
Jun 5, 2011, 10:25 AM
Pay us for new Time Capsule, Lion and iCloud to store and sync your data to your devices. No bandwidth, storage or availability management for Apple. In the grand Apple tradition this will sell and fans will be rekindled when Apple announces now they have even more moolah in the bank!

ckorhonen
Jun 5, 2011, 10:25 AM
Just speculation, but imagine a combination of the two approaches.

You pay $??/year for the iCloud service and it provides a number of features:

Storage of local files to the cloud
Storage and streaming of music/video from the cloud to your Mac's and iOS devices
API's for app developers to take advantage of cloud syncing
Over the air syncing of iOS devices
Over the air updates for iOS devices and apps


All sounds nice, but you are always going to be reliant an internet connection (and a fast one at that) for the best performance. Its fine for smaller files, documents and the like, but for larger files, media... then it some form of caching would be nice.

The AppleTV already has 8Gb of storage - that could certainly be used to cache movies and music so that there is always something on hand to listen to. Same for iOS devices, and I believe Apple recently filed a patent for something along these lines - partial syncing of the starts of songs so that network latency does not impair streaming.

Imagine something similar for files - a low cost $199 Airport Express and Time Capsule replacement, running iOS with a large hard drive installed. It will mirror all of the files you have on your iCloud - documents, music, video - and make them available on your local network to your devices. A large local cache like this makes reduces the dependency on your network connection, so you can still work and stream media without worrying about your internet connection. Files are then synced to the remote iCloud in the background.

Thats where I suspect Apple is going with this.

Obviously they are going to need to incentivize it for existing Time Capsule or NAS users - while I doubt all models of Time Capsule will be upgradable, a few things to make this an attractive upgrade:

Low price point. Just look at the AppleTV's $99 price tag, you could take that as a base, remove the video hardware and add networking stuff and a big harddrive and keep things under $200.
Free or discounted iCloud service with purchase.

X38
Jun 5, 2011, 10:25 AM
Outstanding!
THIS makes sense. So far all this 'cloud' computing chatter has been a bunch of nonsense that I have no interest in. This concept is the first 'cloud' computing idea that sounds actually practical and useful. I sure hope this is an accurate rumor - if so, Apple will once again lead the way in making new technology actually accessible and worthwhile to the mass market.

zedsdead
Jun 5, 2011, 10:26 AM
I hope they make it have the aluminum casing - the white plastic looks so 2006.

Never going to happen. The primary purposes is to be a wireless router, and it would kill the signal.

It could go black like the Apple TV though.

Apollo1988
Jun 5, 2011, 10:29 AM
Technically could Apples server be used to make the streaming process from a local TC speedier?

I always thought if I did cloud storage it would be on my own terms through a custom built server. I bought a Time Capsule a few years ago as I thought it would do something similar to what this article is proposing but it sucked when I tried it out and ended up selling the TC 6 months ago. Seems like a good decision now! I've also been trying iDisk lately. It sucks compared to Dropbox.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 10:29 AM
I think this setup involving a TC to make things faster/smoother on the LOCAL NETWORK ONLY is genius.

If I want to play some music or movies via iCloud that I have stored in my home folder, I could stream them right off my own network so its faster and doesn't eat up my bandwidth cap.

But everything still needs to be really in the cloud too. What if I am a traveling sales person and my router at home shuts off for some reason, the HD fails, or another problem arises. I still need access to my files.

Plus, I bet Apple's servers will have much better upload speeds than my connection, so accessing "iCloud" on the go is going to be terrible unless I am getting the files off of Apple's servers.

And what if someone breaks into my house and steals my TC or there's a fire and it's destroyed. I have just lost all my files. That means I would need another backup solution. For me, the whole point of a cloud solution is so that I don't need to worry about losing my files again, which again the TC-only setup would fail at.

Now if iCloud is smart enough to figure out when I am at home and thus use my local storage (TC) or if I am outside and therefore use Apple's own servers, and it can do so seamlessly, now that's an improvement over DropBox and any other Cloud service.

At that point, Synching is not going to be an issue at home at all, since local speeds are super fast. And by the time I hit the road, I am sure that TC would have uploaded all the files in the background by then to the real iCloud.

So if this whole TC thing is that if you have a new one, it will make iCloud EVEN BETTER, then it's GENIUS.

If this whole TC thing IS the iCloud and you must have it on to share your files at all times, then its an EPIC FAIL.

Well you just answered it yourself. It will be just part of the whole thing (given this rumour is true).

Dr McKay
Jun 5, 2011, 10:30 AM
I love watching old Tech Presentations, something about them just fascinates me.

Awjvail
Jun 5, 2011, 10:31 AM
AL wouldnt be the best for reception. I think black like the AppleTV would be a good guess.

Well - most of their other wifi devices are aluminum as well.. probably with a plastic insert on it like the Bluetooth Keyboard/iPod Touch/iPhone 1

DoogH
Jun 5, 2011, 10:32 AM
They've had a lot of routers in the past... Apple TV, Time Capsule, and standard Air Port...

I suspect they are going to update the time capsule to serve as an Apple TV as well, except with local storage, rather than streaming only (because it also serves at the time capsule backup). The cloud system would make sense here as well to have duplicate copies of your files from the cloud stored on the time capsule (kinda like your idisk). That way when away from home, you access them via internet, and when home you access them via time capsule. The two stay identical. This makes perfect sense. It helps ease people's fear of data lose via the cloud as well.

I, for one, hate the way idisk works on the mac. You can store a local copy for offline usage, but that takes large amounts of disk space. Also, when you update stuff on the local idisk, you must remain connected for the large files to sync. With this time capsule concept, you copy them to your time capsule and let it finish uploading the files while you are gone. The offline storage also won't eat your local drive's space. Seems genius, but who knows if that is actually the plan.

NightFox
Jun 5, 2011, 10:33 AM
So where do all the licensing agreements with all the record companies fit in with all of this? Nah, there's more to iCloud than this.

ct2k7
Jun 5, 2011, 10:34 AM
Never going to happen. The primary purposes is to be a wireless router, and it would kill the signal.

It could go black like the Apple TV though.

One you go black, you never go back.

baryon
Jun 5, 2011, 10:35 AM
This would be awesome! That way it would be way faster when you're at home at least.

RafaelT
Jun 5, 2011, 10:35 AM
A "local" cloud is much more appealing to me than having all my stuff "somewhere" available when all components "in the end to end path" from my ? to my Mac are having a "sunny day". Not to mention privacy issues....

That being said it will be interesting to see how "iCloud" evolves with Apple TV and iTunes content and "streaming".

Maybe tomorrow we'll have some answers.....

Yes! If there is truth to this rumor and Apple executes it correctly it will be great!

Diatribe
Jun 5, 2011, 10:35 AM
So if this is true and I don't need my computer to be on for airplay then Sonos is left with less and less advantages over airplay.

fekimoki
Jun 5, 2011, 10:35 AM
How about airport extreme base stations with hdd plugged?

radiohead14
Jun 5, 2011, 10:35 AM
wait, so if your time capsule hardware fails.. will the data be still backed up in apple's storage as well?

ct2k7
Jun 5, 2011, 10:39 AM
wait, so if your time capsule hardware fails.. will the data be still backed up in apple's storage as well?

One would hope so.

camnchar
Jun 5, 2011, 10:39 AM
If true and that's all there is to iCloud, I will be massively disappointed yet still buy the new Time Capsule because my first gen is due for replacing.

I like the idea of storing updates locally, but requiring a hardware upgrade to use cloud services is a bad, bad idea and will slow adoption considerably -- think blu-ray/HDTVs.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 10:41 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

wait, so if your time capsule hardware fails.. will the data be still backed up in apple's storage as well?

I think the assumption is that yes, the local storage will be an option with synching of the son-of-TC with Apple's iCloud servers.

Sounds to me like a good integrated solution for those concerned about having all their eggs in either basket.

Appel
Jun 5, 2011, 10:43 AM
This sounds perfect! Exactly what i have wanted out of a TC. Optimises for media streaming and synching across devices, perfect storage for my 128 gb ssd macbook, and a highway line for the coming flashbased Macbooks. Now theres no need for massive local storage.

NightFox
Jun 5, 2011, 10:44 AM
Before cooking up these crackpot theories, has anyone stopped and thought about the fact that maybe Time Capsule is being discontinued as it has been proven to fail easily and with the use of Apple's servers and iCloud, a Time Capsule backup/sync home setup won't be necessary. Apple is into making better and more seamless experiences, not complicating things by forcing their customers to buy and setup a Time Capsule just to get a proper syncing/caching/backingup solution...

Sorry, don't agree. For starters, for many people (especially with ADSL connections) the initial backup would take days if not weeks to complete. A system restore would take days and use up several months allowance for capped users. Even accessing the backup to restore a couple of files would be painfully slow compared to a LAN connection.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 10:45 AM
I think this would be a good way to go. It just better support external hard drives though

You know it won't.

It's a stroke of genius for Apple and the worshippers nealt down before Steve.

The plan will sell more time capsules than ever. Brilliant.

No it won't. Normal people don't want to buy an extra piece of equipment to do this.

The catch here is upload speeds... Of which most home ISPs have very little of. My TWC service has 20Mbps down, but only 1.5Mbps up. This will cramp any sort of home cloud service.... :(

Very few people would be able to take advantage of this because of their asymmetrical connections.

wait, so if your time capsule hardware fails.. will the data be still backed up in apple's storage as well?

Probably not. Sure doesn't seem that way. Sounds like a fancy way of using a VPN to interface with AirPlay.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 10:46 AM
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If this isn't Apple's plan I'll actually be rather disappointed. I've been wanting an integrated hone server solution that doesn't require all the setup pain for a while.

What would be nice but I think unlikely (not Apple's style) would be a first year's free subscription to iCloud with the new TC.

techwarrior
Jun 5, 2011, 10:48 AM
Dang...timing again. Just purchased an AirPort Extreme and am using a USB connected drive. Too late to return the AP, been 60+ days.

I am hoping this will be an iCloud/MobileMe update to the AP and TC firmware as well as MacOS and iOS rather than require new HW...

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 10:52 AM
Dang...timing again. Just purchased an AirPort Extreme and am using a USB connected drive. Too late to return the AP, been 60+ days.

I am hoping this will be an iCloud/MobileMe update to the AP and TC firmware as well as MacOS and iOS rather than require new HW...

It probably won't. They'll treat it like the original Apple TV.

toddybody
Jun 5, 2011, 10:53 AM
I'm sure well know more tomorrow;)

theOtherGeoff
Jun 5, 2011, 10:54 AM
I think this is the rebirth of nearline storage with on disk, on LAN and on WAN storage. The data migrates to where 'you are' and if you have local caching servers (TC), then it negotiates delivery to all devices in your LAN.

Best of Andrew File System, consumer grade.

The patent for fragmentary delivery of content is a hint.

The 2 things common people don't do well are: do backups, and build network shares. Yes, there are those who read manuals, go to college, and even 'enjoy' the intricacies of RAID0+1, NFS, tar, AFS, TCP buffers, performance tuning, and even TLS/AES.

Point is, most people don't. And consumer network equipment Dlink, Linksys/Cisco, are in a race to the bottom, rightfully so, in providing cheap LAN support.

What Apple is (needs to) doing, is building the bridge between 'out there' cloud, and 'in here' cloud (my home, my devices, my entertainment). Yes, there are companies that have done parts of this before, but none have the ITMS at the back end, and the iPad in the fingers of the consumer. Building out a singular system that lets you create a remote backup location, a remote sharing point for all my personal files, encrypted with a filevault sparse bundle dmg file.

a local caching server (any reason why time capsule files for 8 months ago have to be in the same room as me?, in fact, there are lots of reasons why a copy of yesterdays backups should be offsite hours after completion), support for internal multicasting (why send down 3 versions of a rented movie, as it moves from desktop to ipad, to appleTV? send the next 5MB to the local server, and as they switch, it's done at LAN speeds and not WAN speeds).

And, is there any reason why the key server in the sky, can't send keys for you to read DRM'ed data off of my server, if you pay for a right to view. So, If I download IronMan3, and someone on my ISP wants to view it too, why not get some files from the 'neighbor,' as long as the encryption key escrowing is served up by the Apple (who can keep track of rights assignments).... A legal bittorrent.

Finally, as FaceTime goes 'conference' Now, you have a central spot in an org to sync and delivery a single stream (or multicast). Great for SMBs, and extended families. Heck, my wife and I facetime between the basement and 2nd floor now.

I see Apple putting the 'home server' right next to the cable modem/DSL POP. And it coordinates with the mothership in North Carolina. Why share files between my iPad and my desktop via a cloudserver in NC, when I can do it on my LAN with little latency... but if I leave the house... having it seemlessly connect to the icloud services at Apple (no buttons, no switches, it just works), is EXACTLY what everyone who doesn't know the difference between megabytes and megatron.

adammjenkins
Jun 5, 2011, 10:54 AM
Here's to hoping that those of us with existing hardware aren't left completely out of the loop. I like the concept of either paying to use Apple's servers (for offsite backup purposes, as well) or hosting my own for the cost of my hardware and internet connection, but I'm just hoping that I don't have to buy yet another piece of very expensive networking hardware to accomplish it. I am perfectly fine with the functionality of my Airport Extreme and its USB expansion port, I just hope it is capable of receiving an update. I have loved the router thus far, and I don't want to regret my (relatively recent) $180 purchase. I guess we'll all find out exactly what this is and how it will pan out tomorrow. It really feels like Christmas Eve! So much cool stuff coming tomorrow.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 10:55 AM
To use iCloud i have to buy a time capsule? No thanks.

if this is a necessity then it's gonna fail.

most people are on windows and have no need for a time capsule, so that will alienate most iOS users off the bat.

The more i hear stuff like this, the more i think that i'll stick with dropbox for files/pics/etc and spotify for music as iCloud is not going to do anything better than that combo at the mo.

Edit - i got 3 negatives for this post? really? lol.

UnseenLlama
Jun 5, 2011, 10:56 AM
The problem with the current NAS devices with an iTunes server (Netgear, Synology, DLink, Qnap, etc) is that you still can not play back restricted material bought from the iTunes store from these devices. Sure, most music is DRM free now and will work fine with those 3rd party solutions, but movies/tv shows purchased thru iTunes are not able to be played back from those NAS devices. The other problem is that you were never able to have AppleTV play things off of these NAS devices.

Now if Apple opens the streaming gates with a TC type device which allows any iOS or Mac OS device to stream off it, that's worth something to me.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 10:57 AM
I see this kind of thing as nearly a total win. But to fully get it, you have to put all the pieces together.

Apparently, a big piece of iCloud is streaming media. The owners of that media do not want to allow the "scan my library and then link me to one master copy of every song" option because they'll assume we're all pirates. There's no real way to reasonably prove that all the non-iTunes-store purchased content was genuinely purchased. Yet, iCloud for the iTunes benefit is a bust if ONLY iTunes-purchased content can be stored and streamed.

A digital locker where we upload our own copies of the rest of our media libraries is a situation where an Apple service may be facilitating the use of pirated content. So giving us the space to upload our stuff onto Apple servers may have some legal risk for Apple. I bet Amazon & Google will feel some pain soon for this very thing.

Furthermore, storing everything in the (off site) iCloud comes with the downside of high bandwidth burn when your Internet access gatekeepers are increasingly pinching "unlimited Internet" down into tiers and "per GB" fees.

So how do you solve those 2 problems and still sell us on an iCloud service? A local piece of the iCloud (this TC solution) for non-iTunes-purchased media and non-local storage of the rest on Apple servers seamlessly presented to us users as if all of it was in either place. Do the software right and even the "NOT for dummies" user won't be able to tell exactly where any given bit of iTunes media is coming from.

In this scenario, Apple legal risk is near zero as they aren't hosting any media they can't prove each iCloud user owns. Each user gets to enjoy ALL of their media via iCloud instead of ONLY the content purchased via iTunes. And, potentially, there is a fairly strong reason to buy new hardware for Apple to make it all work.

And with most of your media stored on your local cloud, you don't burn any bandwidth when access it at home. Furthermore, this local cloud gives users the potential for the non-computer access to all iTunes media (such as the popular want of NOT needing to leave a computer running to feed media to an :apple:TV).

My guess is that the cost of the local cloud is the cost of a TC plus the $25 or so annual subscription for iCloud services (which would mostly be sync services if you choose to store all of your own content only on this local iCloud). I for one would be very quick to pay up for an Apple-friendly iTunes media server with NO other features than just sharing one media library with all of the devices within the house; for some time now, I've been right on the edge of paying up big for a Drobo or Unraid. And Apple central store with lots of Apple software niceties is a complete win- even at TC prices or more.

If you want to store lots of other files (probably non-media to keep the legals under control) off site, there is probably going to be per GB or tier fees much like iDisk now. That would still give you a way to backup everything off site if you want... but "everything" will come at a pretty good added cost, probably scaling per individual needs. I can't figure out how this model could backup your iTunes media NOT purchased from the store and still be acceptable legal risk, but maybe using iCloud for backup purposes only- NOT streaming- is a way to implement a complete Time Machine OFFSITE backup solution through iCloud (for those that want offsite backup).

Thus, the cheap option for iClouding all of your iTunes content is to buy the new TC device. The more expensive variation is to rent big space on Apple's servers to function as off-site backup. I bet this will be a classic rent vs. buy pricing scheme that will make buying new hardware from Apple seem like a bargain.

I'd also guess that a software upgrade would probably be available to bring this iCloud functionality to existing TC and AEBS users.

Net, I would guess that we can choose NOT to buy TCs and store it all on Apple's servers at a pretty hefty price if "it all" is a lot of storage. I would guess that that rental will look weak vs. buying a TC and storing most of your stuff in the local cloud. Either way, Apple makes lots of money whether you store it on their servers or in a hybrid between their servers and your own personal iCloud (TC).

There is a bandwidth burn downside when the local cloud storage is having to send data to you via Internet (as you are burning it on the upload and the download) when you are away from home, but this will only be a problem for people who are on-the-go streaming more often than at-home streaming. For each person that that describes, they would probably want to choose to rent more iCloud storage on Apple's servers and store less at home.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 10:57 AM
To use iCloud i have to buy a time capsule? No thanks.

if this is a necessity then it's gonna fail.

most people are on windows and have no need for a time capsule, so that will alienate most iOS users off the bat.

The more i hear stuff like this, the more i think that i'll stick with dropbox for files/pics/etc and spotify for music as iCloud is not going to do anything better than that combo at the mo.

I don't think Apple is looking at this as a solution that will involve Windows users.

But I'm thinking I'll be sending more money Dropbox's way after Monday.

Morod
Jun 5, 2011, 10:58 AM
I'm sure well know more tomorrow;)

Yes.
But if the majority of posters in this thread are correct, I'll be Cloudless in Kansas.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 10:58 AM
To use iCloud i have to buy a time capsule? No thanks.


Logic tells that would be insane ergo not possible. If you happen to have Time Capsule then iCloud will work with it too (a guess right now based on rumours and comments).

Bonte
Jun 5, 2011, 10:59 AM
I hope it will also work as a server in the existing network, i already have a wireless router from my provider and i don't want to add another wireless network in the mix.

The idea is very promising, the Time Capsule could download Mac and iOS updates in advance and distribute them to all the Apple devices in the network. It would speed up the updates, lower the burden on Apple's servers and remove the need for a PC/Mac with iOS devices, this could be huge in country's where small devices are everywhere but not much room for real computers.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 11:00 AM
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To use iCloud i have to buy a time capsule? No thanks.

if this is a necessity then it's gonna fail.

most people are on windows and have no need for a time capsule, so that will alienate most iOS users off the bat.

The more i hear stuff like this, the more i think that i'll stick with dropbox for files/pics/etc and spotify for music as iCloud is not going to do anything better than that combo at the mo.

I don't think that's the view. Here at least. The TC is an optional extra for those who want a local cloud synced with the ..er.. iCloud.

As others say, for those with existing kit it will be disappointing if they have to upgrade to use this. Hopefully at least some elements will be usable with existing kit.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 11:00 AM
Yes.
But if the majority of posters in this thread are correct, I'll be Cloudless in Kansas.

Same here in Chicago.

bilbo--baggins
Jun 5, 2011, 11:02 AM
Might work if you have a choice of paying for online cloud storage OR your own Time Capsule?

I hope they make the Time Capsule more grown up though - it needs easily replaceable hard drives and drive redundancy. In it's current form it's little more than a toy.

res1233
Jun 5, 2011, 11:02 AM
Holy crap! Steve actually condoned clones back then? Was he insane? Clones were by all accounts one of the things that contributed to their near-demise. I'm glad he changed his mind on that...

jaw04005
Jun 5, 2011, 11:03 AM
So far, we've heard quite a bit about the new Time Capsule.

- will use A4 or A5 chip
- runs iOS
- will download software updates for Macs and presumably iOS devices automatically
- backs up Time Machine data to iCloud (backups would like be "smart" in that purchased iTunes content would not need to be backed up)
- syncs iTunes purchased content across multiple devices
- will feature an iTunes server-like application that will stream iTunes media to iOS and Mac devices

Combine this with all the current features of Time Capsule, drop the price to $199 and make the hard drive user accessible (for data recovery and drive replacement) and I'm sold!

The current Time Capsule is a ticking time bomb of data loss. I would know seeing as I had to have my original replaced and AppleCare said "Sorry. We can't perform data recovery on Time Capsule devices."

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 11:04 AM
I don't think Apple is looking at this as a solution that will involve Windows users.

But I'm thinking I'll be sending more money Dropbox's way after Monday.

Well who knows with apple! they've done stupid things before.

iCloud was a hard sell to me before this anyway, music-wise, spotify is awesome as i can have any music i want on the go, can even have offline mode so no wasting internet data usage. streaming video on the go is rubbish at the mo, in the UK, unless you're dead close to a city centre, connections not really good enough to stream without waiting to buffer and i have 3Gb on dropbox for free.

Apple will have to pull something awesome out tomorrow to convince me and alot of others, that iCloud is worth it.

commander.data
Jun 5, 2011, 11:04 AM
A local piece of the iCloud (this TC solution) for non-iTunes-purchased media and non-local storage of the rest on Apple servers seamlessly presented to us users as if all of it was in either place.
I agree. I don't see Time Capsule being required for iCloud, but it will enable more features. It makes sense for all iTunes purchased content to be streamed from Apple's servers since they now have the licenses for that and they only need to hold basically a single master copy to serve up to people. Contacts, bookmarks, calenders, and other existing MobileMe services will continue to come from Apple's servers.

What the addition of Time Capsule will do is allow you to stream your non-iTunes media to your mobile device using iCloud as a conduit service. It'll also allow you to stream documents, pictures and other files that you might not want to upload to Apple's servers for privacy reasons or that would be inconvenient for Apple to store.



- backs up Time Machine data to iCloud (backups would like be "smart" in that purchased iTunes content would not need to be backed up)
Even with out iTunes content, backing up Time Machine to Apple's servers will be 100s of GBs, even TBs of data. Even if Apple has that much storage space for each of their users multiple computers, most people probably don't have sufficient monthly bandwidth quotas to make this worthwhile.

AZREOSpecialist
Jun 5, 2011, 11:05 AM
I doubt you'll need to buy a Time Capsule to get iCloud functionality. I suspect that for those who want a Time Capsule, iCloud may offer some additional benefits, especially if you also have a Mac and Apple TV. Perhaps it's a unique solution for those who don't trust "the cloud" and would rather stream from a server on their home network.

The Time Machine angle may be Steve's "one more thing".

skellener
Jun 5, 2011, 11:06 AM
Yup. I remember all that Steve spoke of back then. Used to use NeXT. That's why I love OS X.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 11:07 AM
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Presumably this is all what Steve Jobs had in mind when he talked about the Post PC world. Whether you can update an iPad over the air would be a moot point - but if those who only need to email and surf could choose to have a £150 home media hub instead of a PC, then that would be quite powerful.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:09 AM
Heck, my wife and I facetime between the basement and 2nd floor now.

Much of what you said seems right on. But in this bit I quoted, would chains be involved? ;)

hh83917
Jun 5, 2011, 11:11 AM
I don't mind upgrading my Timecapsule. It is a fairly stable router but it stills acts up now and then, so I had to reboot it once in a while like other consumer routers when it freezes, even though not as often. I've used some robust business routers before that virtually never freezes and does not require reboot when changing settings. I hope the new Timecapsule/ router with HDD will be able to achieve that level of robustness with faster processor and better chips. If that's the case, I don't mind the extra cash to upgrade. :rolleyes:

And if Apple is to do something like back-to-my-timecapsule, then I think the success of it really depends on how fast the user's home network is. Quite frankly, not everyone can get FIOS upload speeds and it will be a pain watching the files/videos/music load on your devices when you're outside...

jaw04005
Jun 5, 2011, 11:12 AM
Even with out iTunes content, backing up Time Machine to Apple's servers will be 100s of GBs, even TBs of data. Even if Apple has that much storage space for each of their users multiple computers, most people probably don't have sufficient monthly bandwidth quotas to make this worthwhile.

Most people don't have 100s of GBs of data. We're talking documents and photos for 99.9% of users. A generous amount of storage such as 50GB to 100GB (think DropBox) would suffice. It's not like you'll be using iCloud to backup your ripped Blu-ray collection.

blow45
Jun 5, 2011, 11:16 AM
great news, I d prefer a nas, but a cloud synced simple, ios based, quite and fast arm mini server/interim server is great.

Again I hear many very misinformed naysayers here, as per usual, and I am wondering were do they all go and hide as soon as what apple comes up with proves to be both useful and a bestseller? They did it for the ipad (what good will it be for?), the ipod, ad infinitum.

Anyway, eff ignorance, I have to say what with two desktops (minimum), one notebook, an ipad and various ipods my files have started to run amok and I am glad apple is bringing in what sounds as a robust and simple way to sync everything together. Maybe I lll have to give up the great dropbox after all.

Expect excellent competitive prices as well for the mini servers that the time capsules are going to be.

I would wager that maybe even a rename for time capsule is imminent.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:18 AM
Even with out iTunes content, backing up Time Machine to Apple's servers will be 100s of GBs, even TBs of data. Even if Apple has that much storage space for each of their users multiple computers, most people probably don't have sufficient monthly bandwidth quotas to make this worthwhile.

That's right. It seems many of the iCloud dreamers imagine storing everything on Apple's servers. But they seem to be ignoring how the middlemen between their homes and Apple's servers are increasingly pinching bandwidth with tiers and per-GB charges for "heavier users". Even if an iCloud service is only $25/yr from Apple, the potential big expense is much like the show of iPhones being advertised "as low as $49*". The total cost of the iPhone must factor in the service, which might be summarized as paying for bandwidth.

This new iCloud is separated from each of us by pipes owned by AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, etc, all of which will LOVE it if we all choose to stream everything to/from an off-site cloud. There's lots of money in that for them.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 11:19 AM
Most people don't have 100s of GBs of data. We're talking documents and photos for 99.9% of users. A generous amount of storage such as 50GB to 100GB (think DropBox) would suffice. It's not like you'll be using iCloud to backup your ripped Blu-ray collection.

You're underestimating how much data people have. Most people don't delete anything off of their drives and want everything backed up even if they haven't used a file or application in years.

commander.data
Jun 5, 2011, 11:19 AM
Most people don't have 100s of GBs of data. We're talking documents and photos for 99.9% of users. A generous amount of storage such as 50GB to 100GB (think DropBox) would suffice. It's not like you'll be using iCloud to backup your ripped Blu-ray collection.
Well there's also home videos, which can get pretty big now that people go around shooting at 720p and perhaps want to keep both the original and edited footage.

Of course, in Canada, even if Apple gave users plenty of storage space, ISPs here think a 60GB monthly bandwidth cap is generous, so taking full advantage of Apple's storage can be problematic.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:20 AM
And if Apple is to do something like back-to-my-timecapsule, then I think the success of it really depends on how fast the user's home network is. Quite frankly, not everyone can get FIOS upload speeds and it will be a pain watching the files/videos/music load on your devices when you're outside...

That's the trick though. For those people with intolerably SLOW uploads, the choice is to sync it while at home or pay up to store more of it on Apple's servers. That's partially why the hybrid option of a home iCloud and the NC iCloud can be a "something for everyone" solution.

blow45
Jun 5, 2011, 11:20 AM
Most people don't have 100s of GBs of data. We're talking documents and photos for 99.9% of users. A generous amount of storage such as 50GB to 100GB (think DropBox) would suffice. It's not like you'll be using iCloud to backup your ripped Blu-ray collection.

yes it is and you are wrong, I am using plex and my imac as servers now and there are in excess of 1tb of tv shows, movies, and music, let alone tons of audiobooks and podcasts.

hh83917
Jun 5, 2011, 11:21 AM
Most people don't have 100s of GBs of data. We're talking documents and photos for 99.9% of users. A generous amount of storage such as 50GB to 100GB (think DropBox) would suffice. It's not like you'll be using iCloud to backup your ripped Blu-ray collection.

Correct, but I bet everyone here would love to put their entire iTunes library on something like dropbox and have the ability to access that everywhere. But to be realistic, the infrastructure is not there yet to support that mostly cost-wise. Hopefully we will all be able to do that 5-10 years down the road... that will be really great :D

NAG
Jun 5, 2011, 11:23 AM
Remember when Apple was failing because iCloud was a $25 a year service to stream iTunes Store music to your phone? The memories. I can't wait until we find out how iCloud is going to fail next!

skellener
Jun 5, 2011, 11:26 AM
Correct, but I bet everyone here would love to put their entire iTunes library on something like dropbox and have the ability to access that everywhere. But to be realistic, the infrastructure is not there yet to support that mostly cost-wise. Hopefully we will all be able to do that 5-10 years down the road... that will be really great :DJust do it yourself for free. Works great. Audio Galaxy (http://www.audiogalaxy.com)

srl7741
Jun 5, 2011, 11:27 AM
I've gone through 3 TC's due to the power supply going out so I cant wait to see what people think when this happens. Whoops!

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:27 AM
Correct, but I bet everyone here would love to put their entire iTunes library on something like dropbox and have the ability to access that everywhere. But to be realistic, the infrastructure is not there yet to support that mostly cost-wise. Hopefully we will all be able to do that 5-10 years down the road... that will be really great :D

Or, maybe tomorrow if this TC-replacement is actually a centralized iTunes media server that can stream it to all access points within your home AND to you when you are on-the-go away from home. Apple could deliver this tomorrow... many of the piece are in place. And obviously- even within this one thread- we can see a number of people seeming to hunger for this centralized iTunes media solution more than the rest of the related rumors. My guess is that it would be a very big seller if it is "just works" simple and reliable.

iphone X
Jun 5, 2011, 11:28 AM
forgive me if i'm wrong and being silly, but why are new tcs needed for this? Couldn't this be implemented through a software update on older models?

And doesn't this sound more like 'back to my time capsule' instead of icloud?

+1

jaw04005
Jun 5, 2011, 11:29 AM
You're underestimating how much data people have. Most people don't delete anything off of their drives and want everything backed up even if they haven't used a file or application in years.

I don't believe that.

For one thing, the Mac App Store allows persistent re-downloading of applications and Lion's setup will likely have an automated process for reinstalling applications downloaded from the Mac App Store. Therefore, applications will not need to be stored on iCloud. And if you're not using the Mac App Store, Apple doesn't care about you.

For another, most people don't bother backing up anyway so to assume they have such high expectations for a backup service (such as backing up their entire 1/2TB hard drive full of applications, system files, etc) is nonsense.

Unlike iDisk, you can expect iCloud to be centrally integrated into both iOS 5 and Lion. If you're an iCloud subscriber, it'll likely be the default save location for Apple's applications such as Pages, Keynote, etc.

They're really going to push this as the easiest/safest storage solution for home users.

OllyW
Jun 5, 2011, 11:29 AM
Could this be the iTunes server that many of us have been waiting on for a long time?

I've always wanted to be able to sync the iTunes on my iMac, my MBP and my PC and this sounds like it could be the way to do it. It also sounds like I could also sync with iTunes on my work PC which would be a bonus.

bwillwall
Jun 5, 2011, 11:29 AM
I ****ing hope not, who the hell makes people buy their own servers for a cloud service >: l Apple can't even make free email (mobile me) AND they make you pay for like several TBs of storage and give you like 20 GB or so.

bushido
Jun 5, 2011, 11:31 AM
but why are new TCs needed for this? Couldn't this be implemented through a software update on older models?

+1

u r talking about apple here

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:31 AM
but why are new TCs needed for this? Couldn't this be implemented through a software update on older models?

+1

Conceptually, no new hardware should be required for most of the rumors described here. Most of this can be done with some great software on existing TC and/or AEBS with attached hard drive(s).

However, Apple does like to sell hardware. So I am about 50:50 on whether the fullest implementation of a home iCloud will or will not require new hardware. I want to believe my own AEBS and attached storage would be usable with a software upgrade, but we'll all know tomorrow.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 11:31 AM
I don't believe that.

For one thing, the Mac App Store allows persistent re-downloading of applications and Lion's setup will likely have an automated process for reinstalling applications downloaded from the Mac App Store. Therefore, applications will not need to be stored on iCloud. And if you're not using the Mac App Store, Apple doesn't care about you.

For another, most people don't bother backing up anyway so to assume they have such high expectations for a backup service (such as backing up their entire 1/2TB hard drive full of applications, system files, etc) is nonsense.

Unlike iDisk, you can expect iCloud to be centrally integrated into both iOS 5 and Lion. If you're an iCloud subscriber, it'll likely be the default save location for Apple's applications such as Pages, Keynote, etc.

They're really going to push this as the easiest/safest storage solution for home users.

You don't believe it because you haven't seen it. I have first-hand knowledge of what people expect out of backup services and they expect their entire drive to be backed up. To ordinary people they don't care about specific data, they just want it all.

strabes
Jun 5, 2011, 11:32 AM
You can already put your data on a Time Capsule and make it available over the internet.

Once you check those two boxes in Airport Utility, in Finder you just go to Go, Connect to Server, and type in "afp://yourhomeip" and then type in the Time Capsule password and boom the drive is mounted from anywhere in the world. If you don't know your router's IP address just go to www.whatismyip.com. You could also assign a domain name to that IP or use dyndns.org because your IP changes periodically.

I suppose it would be cool if this functionality was merged with the Time Machine backups though.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 11:32 AM
Conceptually, no new hardware should be required for most of the rumors described here. Most of this can be done with some great software on existing TC and/or AEBS with attached hard drive(s).

However, Apple does like to sell hardware. So I am about 50:50 on whether the fullest implementation of a home iCloud will or will not require new hardware. I want to believe my own AEBS and attached storage would be usable with a software upgrade, but we'll all know tomorrow.

You know it will.

newdeal
Jun 5, 2011, 11:33 AM
this would be cool but if Apple makes me buy a new time capsule to do this I will be pissed. I am sure they could issue a software update for current hardware that would allow this

manu chao
Jun 5, 2011, 11:34 AM
FAIL! If iCloud requires everyone to buy Time Capsule for it to work..

People have been clamouring for years for an iTunes Home Server. Now it arrives and those wanting a true cloud server are complaining.

There is apparently no way for Apple to make people happy:
a) Introduce a true cloud service: people with low bandwidth and bandwidth caps complain
b) Introduce an iTunes Home Server: people wanting a true cloud service complain
c) Introduce both: people still complain because Apple is wasting resources on introducing something they do not want and dares to charge for something they want for free

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:34 AM
I ****ing hope not, who the hell makes people buy their own servers for a cloud service >: l Apple can't even make free email (mobile me) AND they make you pay for like several TBs of storage and give you like 20 GB or so.

I bet you won't HAVE to buy a TC for iCloud to work. But I bet renting the space on Apple's servers is priced such that it will make more sense to do so. Furthermore, I bet some desirable benefits (such as home and away access to iTunes media NOT purchased from the iTunes store) will require that you own a chunk of your own iCloud to keep the media company lawyers at bay.

I don't think this (get us to buy TCs) rumor is a pure greed play. I think it is probably the best answer to the legal issue previously described. I just don't see how Apple will be able to win negotiations to scan all of the media in our iTunes libraries and then give us all access to the one master copy of each song stored on their servers. The music industry seems to assume piracy, and any kind of "terms of service" language in which we take full responsibility that everything in our libraries is not pirated is probably still not bullet proof should some of it NOT be legit.

If Apple servers facilities the distribution of that content, they may own some risk they don't want to own. I'm guessing they chose to make the $1XX million deal with the music industry with this solution in mind, knowing the industry will soon move on Google & Amazon variation of this cloud concept. There, content is being stored on Google & Amazon servers. If some of that is not legit, it might be possible for the industry to sue Google & Amazon for facilitating the use of copyrighted materials. I expect that actually.

Thus, since the iTunes piece of the iCloud concept would probably be a bust if it was limited solely to iTunes-purchased media, this hybrid concept is probably seen as the best way to serve everyone's interests and minimize Apple's own legal risk. Don't want to use this new TC? You don't have to, but then the iCloud iTunes benefits are probably limited to only content that Apple can know with certainty has been legally obtained.

YourHerojb
Jun 5, 2011, 11:34 AM
This takes away the problem of Apple only allowing iTunes purchased songs in the remote cloud.
It looks like if you want all your pirated or cd uploaded music, you have to go buy the new time capsule and have it on a local drive.
It's a good solution I'd say :apple:

cube
Jun 5, 2011, 11:36 AM
I am never buying a Time Capsule and I'm not buying an Airport Extreme ever again.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:36 AM
You can already put your data on a Time Capsule and make it available over the internet. I suppose it would be cool if this functionality was merged with the Time Machine backups though.

Yes, but the meat of this rumor is a bit more than just having access to the files. The central iTunes media server rumor is particularly appealing to many as it would be a far superior option to Home Sharing.

commander.data
Jun 5, 2011, 11:37 AM
Unlike iDisk, you can expect iCloud to be centrally integrated into both iOS 5 and Lion. If you're an iCloud subscriber, it'll likely be the default save location for Apple's applications such as Pages, Keynote, etc.

They're really going to push this as the easiest/safest storage solution for home users.
The other thing is that I hope Apple encrypts everything and has layers of security in place. Once this thing is up and running and families are saving everything from school projects to expense reports on iCloud, it'll be a huge target for not just identity thief's but also groups who are going to want to hack it just for fun, given its high profile nature. A successful breach could tarnish Apple's reputation and set-back the publics view of the cloud in general for years to come.

AlligatorBloodz
Jun 5, 2011, 11:37 AM
All will be revealed tomorrow. But if this is true, then dubba-U-tee-EFF...

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 11:38 AM
This takes away the problem of Apple only allowing iTunes purchased songs in the remote cloud.
It looks like if you want all your pirated or cd uploaded music, you have to go buy the new time capsule and have it on a local drive.
It's a good solution I'd say :apple:

Still gets them into an issue where they're allowing you to stream pirated material as it would have to pass through iCloud in some way according to this description.

strabes
Jun 5, 2011, 11:38 AM
Yes, but the meat of this rumor is a bit more than just having access to the files. The central iTunes media server rumor is particularly appealing to many as it would be a far superior option to Home Sharing.

Yeah that would be pretty cool if all the files were synced between computers, kind of like with Dropbox but with your entire computer. The central iTunes server seems pretty interesting also.

Applepi
Jun 5, 2011, 11:40 AM
I like the local aspect of this, sign me up.

Icaras
Jun 5, 2011, 11:41 AM
I hope they make it have the aluminum casing - the white plastic looks so 2006.

Oh how much I disagree with you. Glossy white is just as modern looking as aluminum in my opinion and it matches all of Apple's other peripherals and accessories. I hope they never change it to aluminum.

And black is reserved for living room tech, as evidenced by the Apple TV.

jaw04005
Jun 5, 2011, 11:41 AM
yes it is and you are wrong, I am using plex and my imac as servers now and there are in excess of 1tb of tv shows, movies, and music, let alone tons of audiobooks and podcasts.

And that makes you "most people"?

TV Shows, Movies and Music = Normal people purchase such things from the iTunes Store, which as already pointed out in an earlier post would not need to be backed up to iCloud

Audiobooks = likely come from the iTunes Store, which again would not need to be backed up to iCloud; as for Audible content, Audible already stores those for you

Podcasts = are on Web servers already and normal users don't collect podcasts that can be re-downloaded at any time

iCloud is not going to be a service targeted at DVD/Blu-ray rips or torrent collectors.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 11:43 AM
And that makes you "most people"?

TV Shows, Movies and Music = Normal people purchase such things from the iTunes Store, which as already pointed out in an earlier post would not need to be backed up to iCloud

Audiobooks = likely come from the iTunes Store, which again would not need to be backed up to iCloud; as for Audible content, Audible already stores those for you

Podcasts = are on Web servers already and normal users don't collect podcasts that can be re-downloaded at any time

iCloud is not going to be a service targeted at DVD/Blu-ray rips or torrent collectors.

You're running with the idea that all of these things are stored online for people but most people don't think that way. They think that it exists in only one place - their computer or device that it's on.

YourHerojb
Jun 5, 2011, 11:43 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong and being silly, but why are new TCs needed for this? Couldn't this be implemented through a software update on older models?

There is rumors of Apple adding new processors to the time capsules and having them run a dummy iOS
If it is required to get the new TCs I'm sure it's for good reason.
It may help devices to run the cloud service more seamlessly, seeing it as an iTunes database rather than a bunch of files.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 11:45 AM
On the other hand if Apple can make a 99$ Time Capsule with a slot for HDD (let's say 2.5" maing it smaller. Those come in 1 TB too, right?). It's not a far fetched scenario. 99$ Time Capsule (with empty slot for HDD) with a one year of service included in that price (i have no idea if it's economically viable) would be a hit in my opinion, because it still boils down to Apple selling more Macs, iPods, iPhones and iPads. Just a stupid guess.

Xero910
Jun 5, 2011, 11:45 AM
Hope they serve it from their own servers. My internet connection is less than ideal. Streaming from home sucks.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 11:45 AM
Just do it yourself for free. Works great. Audio Galaxy (http://www.audiogalaxy.com)

or even better Spotify (http://www.spotify.com)...

deannnnn
Jun 5, 2011, 11:45 AM
But with FiOS I have 25 Mbps up anyway, so it shouldn't take too long.

Ahhhh I want FiOS.

I get just under 1 Mbps up with Time Warner Cable in my NYC apartment, which is located immediately next to a Verizon building. I can get Verizon DSL (no thanks) but FiOS isn't available. I guess it's hard for them to put it into older apartment buildings. The 16 Mbps down or whatever it is I get with TWC is okay, but still.

Warbrain
Jun 5, 2011, 11:46 AM
Ahhhh I want FiOS.

I get just under 1 Mbps up with Time Warner Cable in my NYC apartment, which is located immediately next to a Verizon building. I can get Verizon DSL (no thanks) but FiOS isn't available. I guess it's hard for them to put it into older apartment buildings. The 16 Mbps down or whatever it is I get with TWC is okay, but still.

Hard for them? They're not even expanding the FiOS network anymore. Whoever has it is a lucky bastard.

audio_inside
Jun 5, 2011, 11:48 AM
This basically sounds like "Back To My Mac" on steroids, and we know how well that works - NOT!

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 11:48 AM
Ahhhh I want FiOS.

I get just under 1 Mbps up with Time Warner Cable in my NYC apartment, which is located immediately next to a Verizon building. I can get Verizon DSL (no thanks) but FiOS isn't available. I guess it's hard for them to put it into older apartment buildings. The 16 Mbps down or whatever it is I get with TWC is okay, but still.

in the UK, altho it claims 20Mb download, you only get that if you're close to the exchange, which most people aren't, i'm supposedly on 20Mb, i only get 4MB and just get 756kbps uploading, so it's not so great for us here!

manu chao
Jun 5, 2011, 11:49 AM
I am not going to purchase ANOTHER Time Capsule in order to have that feature.
You won't buy any hardware to get a Home Media Server, you want that Home Media Server to materialise out of thin air?

See, if you don't want or need a Home Media Server, you don't have to buy one but if you want one, you can buy one.

Constantine1337
Jun 5, 2011, 11:50 AM
If apple begins using time Capsule as a hub for all media and opens up the possibility for AppleTV to stream stuff from Time Capsule --> I'm getting the Media Center I've always wanted :D

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 11:50 AM
in the UK, altho it claims 20Mb download, you only get that if you're close to the exchange, which most people aren't, i'm supposedly on 20Mb, i only get 4MB and just get 756kbps uploading, so it's not so great for us here!

4MB or 4 Mbps?

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:51 AM
Still gets them into an issue where they're allowing you to stream pirated material as it would have to pass through iCloud in some way according to this description.

No. The passage would be between your owned home iCloud device and your receiving device. It would not have to touch (ideally it wouldn't be routed through) Apple's servers as it flows to wherever you are. Thus, if you're streaming pirated stuff, Apple can claim "arms length."

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 11:55 AM
4MB or 4 Mbps?

soz 4mpbs

ipoppy
Jun 5, 2011, 11:55 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

FAIL! If iCloud requires everyone to buy Time Capsule for it to work..

2xFAIL if Time Capsule still got the same power supply module, which is failing after 18 months because of intensive overheating.

/golfclap

manu chao
Jun 5, 2011, 11:56 AM
I suspect they are going to update the time capsule to serve as an Apple TV as well, except with local storage, rather than streaming only (because it also serves at the time capsule backup).

They had seven years (since the 2004 Airport Express with audio out port) to add an audio out port to the Airport Extremes and TCs. They did not because why sell only an Airport Extreme when you can sell also an Airport Express.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 11:56 AM
soz 4mpbs

So bastards are overselling their service. No way this would fly in my village.

asphalt-proof
Jun 5, 2011, 11:57 AM
I like this. I hope this is true. I have been waiting for something like this ever since HP came out with their home server.I have looked into other NAS but I'm not very savvy with network kinds of things and I want something 'futz proof" and secure. You know, I plug it in, and it just work. (Ok im sure there will be a bit more than that...)
However, if I have to pay $250 for a Time Capsule, I may have to wait for a refurb. Hopefully, the $99 AppleTV will be a guide for Apple. I think it should be pretty obvious to them that a $250 back-up/syncing solution may be a hard sell for the majority of people. Apple does seem to compete pretty well price wise with their iOS products so maybe this will to. Fingers crossed.

Dcuellar
Jun 5, 2011, 11:57 AM
or even better Spotify (http://www.spotify.com)...

And better than both Audiogalaxy and Spotify is Subsonic if you want to create your own server. A bit harder to set up for the noob, but overall a better quality streaming server. The iSub app for the iPhone is awesome for music too.

skunk
Jun 5, 2011, 11:58 AM
Is the plan perhaps that a Time Capsule will be all you need to serve, sync, update and charge your iOS devices, making a conventional computer redundant for many users?

makingdots
Jun 5, 2011, 11:59 AM
As long as they introduce a removable hard drive and disk duplication over USB...

Why you need duplication? It's in the cloud as well, forget that? In case that the time capsule fails, when you got the replacement ready it will probably download the files you need first through iCloud that aren't synced yet and it's like you're up again in a matter of minutes.. ;) the other files of yours are most likely have a local copy - let say in your iMac/macbook, time capsule will just copy that locally in the background and eventually it will be back to normal.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 11:59 AM
On the other hand if Apple can make a 99$ Time Capsule with a slot for HDD (let's say 2.5" maing it smaller. Those come in 1 TB too, right?). It's not a far fetched scenario. 99$ Time Capsule (with empty slot for HDD) with a one year of service included in that price (i have no idea if it's economically viable) would be a hit in my opinion, because it still boils down to Apple selling more Macs, iPods, iPhones and iPads. Just a stupid guess.

I'd really prefer it to be Apple's variation of this: http://www.pogoplug.com/, except Apple easy, reliable etc. That way, each user can add whatever storage they need and it's easy to replace a drive when it dies. I don't expect this (I expect Apple to arbitrarily decide how much hard drive storage we need and rigidly build it in), but it sure would be nice to allow the storage to scale per the needs of the user.

gorcman
Jun 5, 2011, 11:59 AM
hm. does this mean that Apple will discontinue the Airport Extreme? Haven't heard any rumors about it, other than low stock at stores.

manu chao
Jun 5, 2011, 11:59 AM
Combine this with all the current features of Time Capsule, drop the price to $199 and make the hard drive user accessible (for data recovery and drive replacement) and I'm sold!
The HDD in a TC is easily user-replaceable if you know how to use a screwdriver.

You can already put your data on a Time Capsule and make it available over the internet.

Once you check those two boxes in Airport Utility, in Finder you just go to Go, Connect to Server, and type in "afp://yourhomeip" and then type in the Time Capsule password and boom the drive is mounted from anywhere in the world. If you don't know your router's IP address just go to www.whatismyip.com. You could also assign a domain name to that IP or use dyndns.org because your IP changes periodically.

You cannot run dyndns.org on your TC, therefore if your TC IP changes, you would need to have a computer running on your LAN to tell any service of your new IP. And if you keep your computer running, you might as well just serve everything from it.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 12:02 PM
And better than both Audiogalaxy and Spotify is Subsonic if you want to create your own server. A bit harder to set up for the noob, but overall a better quality streaming server. The iSub app for the iPhone is awesome for music too.

i dunno, i get brilliant quality on spotify, access to pretty much any song i want, including anything new that comes out and the app on both the pc and phone can store stuff offline, i've replaced using the iPod app on the iPhone totally.

PCClone
Jun 5, 2011, 12:04 PM
Then adoption is going to be worse than MobileMe.

But it's not a surprise given how Apple has screwed up their Internet strategy many times before.

Major fail!! WTF???? Apple screws up again. The end is near. or...

We could just wait another day and find out the truth instead of basing things of of rumors...just a crazy thought.

manu chao
Jun 5, 2011, 12:05 PM
Consecutive posting.

deannnnn
Jun 5, 2011, 12:05 PM
Hard for them? They're not even expanding the FiOS network anymore. Whoever has it is a lucky bastard.

Is that true? I haven't heard that. Can you link me to an article?

I assumed that it was difficult for them to bring their FiOS lines into older NYC apartment buildings because the owners of the buildings don't want anything done even if the residents do.

lucabrasi
Jun 5, 2011, 12:06 PM
Ahhhh I want FiOS.

I get just under 1 Mbps up with Time Warner Cable in my NYC apartment, which is located immediately next to a Verizon building. I can get Verizon DSL (no thanks) but FiOS isn't available. I guess it's hard for them to put it into older apartment buildings. The 16 Mbps down or whatever it is I get with TWC is okay, but still.

Look into time warner wideband. It's a bit pricey, but for $100/mo all in you get 50 Mbps down / 5 Mbps up. I've had it for over a year now, and the speeds are consistent.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/learn/hso/wideband-internet/

PCClone
Jun 5, 2011, 12:06 PM
I just want to be able to transfer movies/music/etc to my Apple TV or iPhone/iPad/iPod without the damn computer being on.

Sell one of your devices and then you can pay the electric bill.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 12:09 PM
I'd really prefer it to be Apple's variation of this: http://www.pogoplug.com/, except Apple easy, reliable etc. That way, each user can add whatever storage they need and it's easy to replace a drive when it dies. I don't expect this (I expect Apple to arbitrarily decide how much hard drive storage we need and rigidly build it in), but it sure would be nice to allow the storage to scale per the needs of the user.

Sadly there is almost no chance Apple is doing something like this.

jaw04005
Jun 5, 2011, 12:09 PM
The HDD in a TC is easily user-replaceable if you know how to use a screwdriver.

Sure, if you want to void your warranty by prying off the glued rubber backing. I was talking more like how the new Mac mini allows you to swap your RAM.

kevin2i
Jun 5, 2011, 12:10 PM
An updated Time Capsule is not the "iCloud." There may be some integration, but TC cannot be the heart of the cloud.

Exhibit A:

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/maiden_data_center.jpg

This is iCloud.

bruinsrme
Jun 5, 2011, 12:11 PM
I just want to be able to transfer movies/music/etc to my Apple TV or iPhone/iPad/iPod without the damn computer being on.

This.

I would even be interested in being able to have an iTunes nas attached to the TC.

Will the NC facility be one of a kind?

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 12:11 PM
Look into time warner wideband. It's a bit pricey, but for $100/mo all in you get 50 Mbps down / 5 Mbps up. I've had it for over a year now, and the speeds are consistent.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/learn/hso/wideband-internet/

100 for 50 Mbps? This is a rape in a public place in the middle of the day.

gibjer
Jun 5, 2011, 12:12 PM
Humm ....

So I wonder if this is how they'll implement a "file system" for iOS devices, makes perfect sense when you think about it. Especially if future air laptops go iOS instead of the standard OS.

rufwork
Jun 5, 2011, 12:13 PM
Unless you can transparently SSH in from anywhere and unless they integrate with :apple:TV, that's a hard fail.

deannnnn
Jun 5, 2011, 12:13 PM
Look into time warner wideband. It's a bit pricey, but for $100/mo all in you get 50 Mbps down / 5 Mbps up. I've had it for over a year now, and the speeds are consistent.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/learn/hso/wideband-internet/

Yeah I actually have looked into that. $100/month is too much for me though. I've got the triple play now so it's $100/month for tv, internet, and phone. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Undecided
Jun 5, 2011, 12:16 PM
I love watching old Tech Presentations, something about them just fascinates me.

I agree, though the something is probably Steve Jobs. (The dating game thing with the original Mac is cringe-worthy, though.)

Xander Soren, who demonstrated Garageband on the iPad earlier this year, is good too.

PCClone
Jun 5, 2011, 12:17 PM
Not a chance you have to sell your sole for an extra USB port on anything apple!

It will have a 30pin dock connector maybe and a butched non standard Sata drive screwed in with an inch of it's life!

I have heard of people selling their soul, but if I just have to sell a sole, that would be cheap. I have several old shoes around.

ldellx3
Jun 5, 2011, 12:18 PM
so does this mean there is no chance lion will be available tomorrow?

makingdots
Jun 5, 2011, 12:20 PM
so does this mean there is no chance lion will be available tomorrow?

yep no, because apple devs are still in WWDC, in case there are major bugs or compatibility issues, who will fix those? so most likely next week will be the earliest

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 12:20 PM
An updated Time Capsule is not the "iCloud." There may be some integration, but TC cannot be the heart of the cloud.

Exhibit A:

Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/maiden_data_center.jpg)

This is iCloud.

actually that's a building, not a cloud :D

dstranathan
Jun 5, 2011, 12:21 PM
Now we finally know what that new building in North Carolina is:


An Airport Base Station & Time Capsule manufacturing plant!

OllyW
Jun 5, 2011, 12:22 PM
so does this mean there is no chance lion will be available tomorrow?

Latest rumour is that Lion will be released on 14th June (http://www.9to5mac.com/70490/apple-to-release-mac-os-x-lion-on-june-14th/).

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:22 PM
Well done Apple!!!!!!

You have invented the NAS device!!!!!!

I know you're being sarcastic, but the NAS has been far from "it just works" in the household. Synology, QNAP, Drobo, HP Media Server, D-link, Linksys all already have solutions, but Apple could really make some great in-roads in this market.

I'm now in the "build your own" camp (I've just bought a new "server", a triple core AMD machine with 16GB RAM that will replace my aging Pentium II with some 450MB something mismatched SDRAM modules) and I'll probably try running it off the NetApp simulator for kicks and giggles (does NFS and CIFS, though I'd wish for some AFP which I use off my QNAP for now) with a RAID-5, 4 2 TB drive array.

However, just because I do this for a living and know the ins and outs of this doesn't mean it's open to everyone. And seriously, with the amount of people I see on here that constantly want more storage in their laptops of all things, I can see how a NAS type device with Apple's touch could make very great in-roads. Why upgrade your laptop storage ? Put it out on your home network so that all your household's computer can use it and share the data seamlessly. Don't carry around your data either, so that you don't lose it if you lose the laptop.

Centralized home storage is great. I'm more excited for this type of thing than some Internet based solution.


Latest rumour is that Lion will be released on 14th June (http://www.9to5mac.com/70490/apple-to-release-mac-os-x-lion-on-june-14th/).

That would mean Apple is shipping early then, since they said Summer 2011 and June 14th is Spring 2011.


An updated Time Capsule is not the "iCloud." There may be some integration, but TC cannot be the heart of the cloud.

Exhibit A:

Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/maiden_data_center.jpg)

This is iCloud.

It's funny how this thing keeps coming back. We've been discussing this data center for what ? 2 years now ? You think the battle station isn't already fully operational my young rebel friend ? (oh god no, I just didn't say something that geeky).

If I were Apple and had invested tons of cash into that thing, you can be sure it would already be serving up stuff. That data center, while it may ALSO serve up stuff for the MobileMe revamp called iCloud, is probably also already working and serving you stuff for other Apple online-services like the App Store, the apple Store on the web, many of their websites if not also their internal corporate services (either as a primary or secondary site for database clusters/internal app load balancers and stuff like that).

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 12:22 PM
100 for 50 Mbps? This is a rape in a public place in the middle of the day.

It's also the future as the owners of the broadband pipes continue to consolidate down to duopolies & monopolies. Along with higher speeds at "rape" pricing, expect the tiers to come tumbling down (to lower levels for wired broadband) all because of "due to increasing demand of broadband use." They'll choose the high profitability of leveraging price over the cost-demanding infrastructure buildout to try to keep pace with demand, then just leave those high prices in place should bandwidth supply ever catch up with bandwidth demand.

This is the #1 flaw in the dream of everything being stored in some distant cloud- the middlemen love your dream because of how profitable it will be... not for Apple, but for the owners of links between you and the NC iCloud.

Dcuellar
Jun 5, 2011, 12:23 PM
100 for 50 Mbps? This is a rape in a public place in the middle of the day.

Where I live Brighthouse offers 40Mbps for residential. Basically it costs an extra 30 bucks to go from the original 10Mbps to 40Mbps.

ldellx3
Jun 5, 2011, 12:24 PM
Latest rumour is that Lion will be released on 14th June (http://www.9to5mac.com/70490/apple-to-release-mac-os-x-lion-on-june-14th/).

just saw that but whatd you guys think. i plan to buy my new macbook pro next weekend but i want lion. if i buy the macbook pro do you think theyd give me lion for free or discounted because i would have just gotten it? also what is the price of the os. i definitely cant wait till september if thats what theyre planning

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 12:25 PM
That would mean Apple is shipping early then, since they said Summer 2011 and June 14th is Spring 2011.

actually most people consider June to be the summer. form june til august.... then september is autumn....

*LTD*
Jun 5, 2011, 12:25 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

It might be best to wait until Monday for confirmation of this rumour before everyone jumps to conclusions.

gnasher729
Jun 5, 2011, 12:26 PM
Unless you can transparently SSH in from anywhere and unless they integrate with :apple:TV, that's a hard fail.

What percentage of Apple's customer base do you think is interested in "transparently SSH"?

WeegieMac
Jun 5, 2011, 12:26 PM
Hmm, I can't see Apple going down the line of insisting that to use iCloud you must buy one of these new Time Capsules. Surely, along the same idea as Time Machine, you could use an external hard disk and simply leave your computer turned on and connected to WiFi while you're out, using iCloud software/app to sign in and access your content.

iRobby
Jun 5, 2011, 12:26 PM
This basically sounds like "Back To My Mac" on steroids, and we know how well that works - NOT!

No i don't know how well it works do tell how much you hate apple

ldellx3
Jun 5, 2011, 12:28 PM
whatd you guys think? i plan to buy my new macbook pro next weekend but i want lion. if i buy the macbook pro do you think theyd give me lion for free or discounted because i would have just gotten it? also what is the price of the os. i definitely cant wait till september if thats what theyre planning

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:28 PM
No i don't know how well it works do tell how much you hate apple

Please drop the "hater" name calling. Someone not liking every Apple product is not a Apple hater. He just happens to not need/enjoy everything Apple does. I like OS X, Macs, my iPhone, their SDK tools for both platforms. I don't like their online services, their iOS notifications, the lack of widgets on my iPhone or the Airport Extreme's limited software.

I'm not an Apple hater because I have a few dislikes about their stuff. I'm just a normal balanced person with an objective opinion and specific needs.


whatd you guys think? i plan to buy my new macbook pro next weekend but i want lion. if i buy the macbook pro do you think theyd give me lion for free or discounted because i would have just gotten it? also what is the price of the os. i definitely cant wait till september if thats what theyre planning

No one can answer you at this point and if anyone does, they don't know what they are talking about. Apple usually will hand out the new OS to recent Mac buyers. The window is usually quite small and until we know the ship date of Lion, no one can even start making predictions on when the cut-over is.

As for price, same thing. We'll know when they announce it.

Dcuellar
Jun 5, 2011, 12:30 PM
It's also the future as the owners of the broadband pipes continue to consolidate down to duopolies & monopolies. Along with higher speeds at "rape" pricing, expect the tiers to come tumbling down all because of "due to increasing demand of broadband use." They'll choose the high profitability of leveraging price over the cost-demanding infrastructure buildout to try to keep pace with demand, then just leave those high prices in place should bandwidth supply ever catch up with bandwidth demand.

This is the #1 flaw in the dream of everything being stored in some distant cloud- the middlemen love your dream because of how profitable it will be... not for Apple, but for the owners of links between you and the NC iCloud.

I don't know. The way the Phone companies are going with LTE they could technically extend it out to home internet. I read somewhere that LTE is capable of speeds that will blow the current cable company's speeds away.

I know wikipedia is not the best source, but have a read for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

Scroll down to LTE Advanced. If that's true then we've just introduced 2 more ISP's to the market, with Verizon and AT&T, increasing the competition and lowering prices.

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:31 PM
I don't know. The way the Phone companies are going with LTE they could technically extend it out to home internet. I read somewhere that LTE is capable of speeds that will blow the current cable company's speeds away.

I know wikipedia is not the best source, but have a read for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

Scroll down to LTE Advanced. If that's true then we've just introduced 2 more ISP's to the market, with Verizon and AT&T, increasing the competition and lowering prices.

Canadian Cellphone carriers already offer home Internet over 3G. It's capped to all hell and expensive. It's not going to get cheaper and the caps aren't going to grow to meet increased demand, just like the cable providers keep raising the price and keep the caps artificially low.

actually most people consider June to be the summer. form june til august.... then september is autumn....

Most people are wrong then. Summer starts on the Summer solstice, June 21st and ends with the Autumn (or Fall if you prefer) Equinox, on September 22nd or 23rd depending on the year.

This is elementary school stuff. If people are getting it wrong, then a little education could do no harm. ;)

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:33 PM
double.

Cougarcat
Jun 5, 2011, 12:33 PM
whatd you guys think? i plan to buy my new macbook pro next weekend but i want lion. if i buy the macbook pro do you think theyd give me lion for free or discounted because i would have just gotten it? also what is the price of the os. i definitely cant wait till september if thats what theyre planning

See what happens tomorrow. Nobody knows the price of the OS. If they do announce a release date, you'll be able to get the upgrade for $10 shipped, or maybe a free redeem code via the App Store.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 12:33 PM
It's also the future as the owners of the broadband pipes continue to consolidate down to duopolies & monopolies. Along with higher speeds at "rape" pricing, expect the tiers to come tumbling down all because of "due to increasing demand of broadband use." They'll choose the high profitability of leveraging price over the cost-demanding infrastructure buildout to try to keep pace with demand, then just leave those high prices in place should bandwidth supply ever catch up with bandwidth demand.

This is the #1 flaw in the dream of everything being stored in some distant cloud- the middlemen love your dream because of how profitable it will be... not for Apple, but for the owners of links between you and the NC iCloud.

I'm happy my village just skipped all this bs and went optic top to bottom. With 100 USD i can pay for 4 months at 100 Mbps worldwide data with no caps of any kind.

ldellx3
Jun 5, 2011, 12:33 PM
im freakin out i cant wait until tomorrow :p

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 12:36 PM
I don't know. The way the Phone companies are going with LTE they could technically extend it out to home internet. I read somewhere that LTE is capable of speeds that will blow the current cable company's speeds away.

I know wikipedia is not the best source, but have a read for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

Scroll down to LTE Advanced. If that's true then we've just introduced 2 more ISP's to the market, with Verizon and AT&T, increasing the competition and lowering prices.

right but looking at wireless pricing, you'd be comparing current concept like $25 for 2GB vs. around $50 for around 250GB (for now... but not remaining at 250GB for long). Expect LTE to cost more than 3G, probably both in pricing plans and in shrinking tier cutoffs. After all, who you going to switch to and get a better deal if there are only 2 real players in the space (neither of which having any reason to battle on price)?

The dream of storing everything in a distant cloud and the trends of profit-hungry bandwidth keepers are on a collision course. It will not end well for us users... except for those of us that don't have to care about their monthly bandwidth spend.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 12:37 PM
Most people are wrong then. Summer starts on the Summer solstice, June 21st and ends with the Autumn (or Fall if you prefer) Equinox, on September 22nd or 23rd depending on the year.

This is elementary school stuff. If people are getting it wrong, then a little education could do no harm. ;)

thanks for confirming i'm right, june is the beginning of summer and autumn being from september, just like i said.........

so you were quite condescending and didn't read what i said....

plus only you are quibbling on specific dates in the month being the start of summer, if apple do release on 14th of june, then they obviously will consider it summer....

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:39 PM
thanks for confirming i'm right, june is the beginning of summer and autumn being from september, just like i said.........


You said June 14th was summer... It's still wrong, unlike what you said. ;) That's 7 days prior to summer and still quite spring 2011. Did you even read my post ?

Or are you one of those people who wasn't taught about Solstices and Equinoxes ?

If Apple ships Lion on the 14th of June, they are shipping early from what Steve said. June 14th is Spring 2011. He said Summer 2011. My comment still stands.

Dcuellar
Jun 5, 2011, 12:41 PM
Canadian Cellphone carriers already offer home Internet over 3G. It's capped to all hell and expensive. It's not going to get cheaper and the caps aren't going to grow to meet increased demand, just like the cable providers keep raising the price and keep the caps artificially low.


Well, that sucks for us if it is true.

TBH I'm getting tired of paying so much for the 40Mbps. The only reason why I do it is because I'm using Subsonic to access my music and videos on the road. In reality, not only am I paying an extra 30 bucks for that, but also the electricity associated with keeping my computer on all the time. If Apple is truly offering a cloud using their own servers and it is less than 30 bucks a month (for the amount of storage I need) then I'm sold and will be downgrading my home internet.

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:43 PM
Well, that sucks for us if it is true.

TBH I'm getting tired of paying so much for the 40Mbps. The only reason why I do it is because I'm using Subsonic to access my music and videos on the road. In reality, not only am I paying an extra 30 bucks for that, but also the electricity associated with keeping my computer on all the time. If Apple is truly offering a cloud using their own servers and it is less than 30 bucks a month (for the amount of storage I need) then I'm sold and will be downgrading my home internet.

40 Mbps is quite overkill for music streaming at requires at most 320 Kbps of bandwidth. ;)

In these parts, there are tons of DSL providers that offer cheap 5 Mbps service with very high caps. We're talking 30$ a month type stuff here. It's plenty to stream music.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 12:43 PM
You said June 14th was summer... It's still wrong, unlike what you said. ;) That's 7 days prior to summer and still quite spring 2011. Did you even read my post ?

Or are you one of those people who wasn't taught about Solstices and Equinoxes ?

If Apple ships Lion on the 14th of June, they are shipping early from what Steve said. June 14th is Spring 2011. He said Summer 2011. My comment still stands.

Actually i think you'll find i didn't specify June 14th, i just said June, look at my post again:

actually most people consider June to be the summer. form june til august.... then september is autumn....

Oh look, i just said June.....

i probably was taught it, but i'm not anal retentive like some people and i have other more important things to remember. as i said, people generally consider the whole month of june as the start of summer, not the 21st or whatever, just look at the newspapers, tv news, etc for prime examples. I highly doubt people at apple go and look up equinoxes and solstices when picking out whether they will say spring or summer...... Apple will not quibble over a week, unlike you....

macnisse
Jun 5, 2011, 12:46 PM
Wow, that old video was inspirational! :) Steve sure is a visionary man for his :apple:

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:46 PM
Actually i think you'll find i didn't specify June 14th, i just said June, look at my post again:
Oh look, i just said June.....


Look, you were replying to my post that said June 14th was Spring, saying no, it is summer. So in the context of the reply, you were wrong.

It's not about being anal retentive, it's about not distorting facts. Like I said, a little education saves you a lot of embarrassment. I think you just like to argue. This is the second time you've jumped all over me with trivial non-sense and failed to admit you were wrong when proven so.

Your first reply to me was wrong in the context it was made. Apple shipping on June 14th means they are shipping in the Spring. End of story.

And "Oh look, I just said June" was also quite condescending, so please refrain from being a Pot and calling the kettle black. I was not condescending in my posts, I do think that people who don't know about Solstices and Equinoxes lack very basic knowledge about the flow of seasons, which is basically kid's stuff.

Cougarcat
Jun 5, 2011, 12:47 PM
If Apple ships Lion on the 14th of June, they are shipping early from what Steve said. June 14th is Spring 2011. He said Summer 2011. My comment still stands.

SL also shipped a bit early.

In my mind, what makes this date dubious is not that it's not summer, it's that it would only give developers a week with the GM, at a time when many of them will be attending WWDC, not testing their apps.

Sackvillenb
Jun 5, 2011, 12:47 PM
Could be cool, depending on exactly how this is implemented... I guess we'll find out tomorrow!

ESabis
Jun 5, 2011, 12:48 PM
I went the NAS route a few years ago and, like other posters have gotten tired of its unreliability. So this new TimeCapsule might be a good option for our home.

Unlike the rest of you, I haven't been following Apple since 1997 so it was really neat to see that old WWDC1997 video in this post.

Here's my question. At about the 58:40 mark, there is a gentleman asking a question who sounds a whole lot like Jonathan Ive. Am I wrong?

Dcuellar
Jun 5, 2011, 12:48 PM
40 Mbps is quite overkill for music streaming at requires at most 320 Kbps of bandwidth. ;)

In these parts, there are tons of DSL providers that offer cheap 5 Mbps service with very high caps. We're talking 30$ a month type stuff here. It's plenty to stream music.

Well, I don't have only music. I have a lot of my blu-rays backed up on my computer. I have a total of 4TB of media in my library. The download speed really isn't what is important, it's the upload speed that matters if your streaming from home using your own computer as the server.

jhende7
Jun 5, 2011, 12:48 PM
My hesitation with iCloud this whole time has been it's reliance on IP bandwidth (of which I have a ridiculously low cap). It seemed impractical to store my stuff in "the cloud" ie Apples servers, as I would burn through that precious bandwidth in no time. But if everything is hosted locally, that totally alleviates the issue when accessing my stuff at home.

I think the main draw of icloud, won't be accessing it offsite, but using it around the house to keep all your Macs in sync ( and it's a match made in heaven for the MBAs)

This would be a much more appealing iCloud for me *fingers crossed*

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:49 PM
SL also shipped a bit early.

In my mind, what makes this date dubious is not that it's not summer, it's that it would only give developers a week with the GM, at a time when many of them will he attending WWDC, not testing their apps.

Unless Apple is planning not making a public GM release to their registered developers this time around. However, what makes this date even more dubious is the various reports that even the latest developer preview isn't quite polished and ship ready yet.

I'm thinking we'll see it in August, same as Snow Leopard.


Well, I don't have only music. I have a lot of my blu-rays backed up on my computer. I have a total of 4TB of media in my library. The download speed really isn't what is important, it's the upload speed that matters if your streaming from home using your own computer as the server.

And the bitrate of your media is what is important. How are your blu-rays ripped ? Because 40 Mbps is not sufficient to stream a full quality blu-ray (with video VBR rates up to 50 Mbps, that's without audio, which is lossless and thus very high bitrate too). If you're doing 10 Mbps video with 320 Kbps compressed audio rips, technically a 15 Mbps upload home connection is sufficient for even video streaming.

The DSL providers I'm talking about here offer 5 Mbps up/down, again plenty if all you're going is music.

iRobby
Jun 5, 2011, 12:50 PM
Look, you were replying to my post that said June 14th was Spring, saying no, it is summer. So in the context of the reply, you were wrong.

It's not about being anal retentive, it's about not distorting facts. Like I said, a little education saves you a lot of embarrassment. I think you just like to argue. This is the second time you've jumped all over me with trivial non-sense and failed to admit you were wrong when proven so.

Your first reply to me was wrong in the context it was made. Apple shipping on June 14th means they are shipping in the Spring. End of story.

And "Oh look, I just said June" was also quite condescending, so please refrain from being a Pot and calling the kettle black. I was not condescending in my posts, I do think that people who don't know about Solstices and Equinoxes lack very basic knowledge about the flow of seasons, which is basically kid's stuff.

the fight over Summer continues... stay tuned

WeegieMac
Jun 5, 2011, 12:51 PM
I like the idea of using my Time Machine drive, which is essentially what a Time Capsule was for (although it also included WiFi capabilities), to store my media and use my Mac connected through WiFi to stream the data to my iPhone 4 when I request it.

We've no idea how it'll work, and I'm looking forward to tomorrow, but I can't see Apple pushing iCloud to this extent and then telling people, "If you want to use iCloud you need to buy a new Time Capsule". That's a flop waiting to happen.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 12:53 PM
Look, you were replying to my post that said June 14th was Spring, saying no, it is summer. So in the context of the reply, you were wrong.

It's not about being anal retentive, it's about not distorting facts. Like I said, a little education saves you a lot of embarrassment. I think you just like to argue. This is the second time you've jumped all over me with trivial non-sense and failed to admit you were wrong when proven so.

Your first reply to me was wrong in the context it was made. Apple shipping on June 14th means they are shipping in the Spring. End of story.

And "Oh look, I just said June" was also quite condescending, so please refrain from being a Pot and calling the kettle black. I was not condescending in my posts, I do think that people who don't know about Solstices and Equinoxes lack very basic knowledge about the flow of seasons, which is basically kid's stuff.

i never said you're distorting facts, i'm calling you anal retentive. i called you out on the date thing cos you said i said something i didn't. that's not anal retentive, that's pointing out you're twisting facts.

I'm the one being trivial when you're jumping on that guy for june the 14th not being summer by the soltices or equinox by 1 WEEK?? lol.

everyone considers June as a whole to be the start of the summer, especially the marketing world, so when they said they'd release it in summer 2011, in the eyes of the general public, June 14th would be a fair enough date in that.

you always post some pedantic rubbish to distract from the matter, this ain't no different.

gorcman
Jun 5, 2011, 12:54 PM
If I'm reading this correctly, this syncing only applies to apple devices?

so... does this mean i won't be able to sync music/videos from my PC desktop to my macbook?

skellener
Jun 5, 2011, 12:54 PM
This takes away the problem of Apple only allowing iTunes purchased songs in the remote cloud.
It looks like if you want all your pirated or cd uploaded music, you have to go buy the new time capsule and have it on a local drive.
It's a good solution I'd say :apple:Or just use Audio Galaxy (http://www.audiogalaxy.com)

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 12:55 PM
I'm the one being trivial when you're jumping on that guy for june the 14th not being summer by the soltices or equinox by 1 WEEK??.

When did I jump on OllyW ? I was adding to his post, not arguing with him. The June 14th thing is a rumor, it could be true or false. I was simply pointing out that if it is true, then it means Apple is shipping early when taking into account what Apple said.

Is everything an argument and debate to you ? :confused:

You're the only one doing jumping here. I reported your various insults.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 12:57 PM
SL also shipped a bit early.

In my mind, what makes this date dubious is not that it's not summer, it's that it would only give developers a week with the GM, at a time when many of them will be attending WWDC, not testing their apps.

Having time with GM won't make them release updated versions of their apps the same day Lion ships anyway and i doubt there will be something drastic in the GM that they need this time right now.

ciTiger
Jun 5, 2011, 12:57 PM
So you have to buy yet another Apple device to have access to it? :(

Supa_Fly
Jun 5, 2011, 01:02 PM
I'd love to see better OS X native support for PS3 & XBox 360 Audio/Picture/Video streaming; the amount of 3rd party software is ridiculous and the quality/stability varies way too much.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 5, 2011, 01:02 PM
So you have to buy yet another Apple device to have access to it? :(

Doubtful, but I bet the proposition is buy a new TC (or maybe upgrade the software on a current one) for the fullest iClouds (especially iTunes media access) capabilities OR rent all the space on the NC iCloud at a pretty good price above $25/yr if you have a lot of storage needs.

Then, I bet in comparing the rental cost (plus the bandwidth costs in "stream everything) vs. the ownership cost, the new TC proposition will look like a bargain for many.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 01:03 PM
When did I jump on OllyW ? I was adding to his post, not arguing with him. The June 14th thing is a rumor, it could be true or false. I was simply pointing out that if it is true, then it means Apple is shipping early when taking into account what Apple said.

Is everything an argument and debate to you ? :confused:

You're the only one doing jumping here. I reported your various insults.

i've not insulted anyone, you have by implying that people that don't know the equinoxes and soltices are of low intelligence...

nothing wrong with healthy debate, that's what we're here for.

If I'm reading this correctly, this syncing only applies to apple devices?

so... does this mean i won't be able to sync music/videos from my PC desktop to my macbook?

i would like to think they wouldn't exclude PC's but i wouldn't be surprised since PC's have been denied at FaceTime client that Mac's have now. Jobs went on about how facetime will be open to all and they want more users using it, then why not make a windows client too? madness

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 01:03 PM
So you have to buy yet another Apple device to have access to it? :(

No people here are saying you may need a time capsule if you want local streaming. If you're happy streaming from iCloud over the internet then its just whatever charge they decide to set for access and/or storage limit

Cougarcat
Jun 5, 2011, 01:05 PM
Having time with GM won't make them release updated versions of their apps the same day Lion ships anyway and i doubt there will be something drastic in the GM that they need this time right now.

Apple has always given devs at least a few weeks with a GM. If Lion is complete, a late-June release would make more sense because it would allow devs to get home from WWDC, verify that their current Lion builds work, and make any last-minute changes.

As for something drastic, the replacement of MobileMe with iCloud?

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2011, 01:05 PM
i've not insulted anyone, you have by implying that people that don't know the equinoxes and soltices are of low intelligence...

When did I say that ? Are you equating intelligence and education per chance ? Lack of education in a subject matter is not a sign of lack of intelligence as both are quite separate.

nothing wrong with healthy debate, that's what we're here for.

Yes, but don't accuse me of "jumping over a poster" when I didn't. Don't mistake debate with conversation. This is a discussion forum, not everything needs to be a debate.

OllyW
Jun 5, 2011, 01:06 PM
So you have to buy yet another Apple device to have access to it? :(

I doubt it. It would end up being even less popular than Mobile Me if it requires buying new hardware. I get the feeling that there will be even more to iCloud than we've heard so far.

It just sounds like this part of iCloud will need the new Time Capsule.

Bwinski
Jun 5, 2011, 01:06 PM
DUMBEST IDEA EVER PRESENTED - EVEN BY MICROSOFT.

If you have a local drive - who needs iCloud??? NOBODY.... Dumb....

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 01:10 PM
No people here are saying you may need a time capsule if you want local streaming. If you're happy streaming from iCloud over the internet then its just whatever charge they decide to set for access and/or storage limit

forcing people to have a time capsule for local streaming is a bad idea, it's just going to alienate people

Cougarcat
Jun 5, 2011, 01:11 PM
When did I say that ? Are you equating intelligence and education per chance ? Lack of education in a subject matter is not a sign of lack of intelligence as both are quite separate.

Yes, but don't accuse me of "jumping over a poster" when I didn't. Don't mistake debate with conversation. This is a discussion forum, not everything needs to be a debate.

If you two wish to continue this discussion, do everyone a favor: get a room and do it via PM. Nobody else wants to read this nonsense.

shandyman
Jun 5, 2011, 01:12 PM
When did I say that ? Are you equating intelligence and education per chance ? Lack of education in a subject matter is not a sign of lack of intelligence as both are quite separate.


you implied it, which is just as bad


Yes, but don't accuse me of "jumping over a poster" when I didn't. Don't mistake debate with conversation. This is a discussion forum, not everything needs to be a debate.

you outrightly said he was wrong, so yea, you jumped over him. i've seen you done it before and you are just getting stroppy with me cos you got called out on it.

anyway, i'm not talking more about this matter as it's distracting from the discussion.

maclaptop
Jun 5, 2011, 01:14 PM
Why isn’t Apple using its massive new data center?

It's the perfect way to sell more hardware.

Žalgiris
Jun 5, 2011, 01:15 PM
As for something drastic, the replacement of MobileMe with iCloud?

Since no one knows what it is no one has any kind of integration with it in apps.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 01:15 PM
forcing people to have a time capsule for local streaming is a bad idea, it's just going to alienate people

hopefully there will be a new cheaper solution. I like the idea but £200+ is rather steep. Something between ATV and time capsule would be ideal

WelshDog
Jun 5, 2011, 01:16 PM
Great, just great. I ordered a new Airport Extreme last week and it's going to be delivered - wait for it . . . Monday.

Guess I'll leave it in the box unopened so I can send it back to MacMall if the new iCloud versions are announced. My timing is usually better, but this news came from nowhere.

Cougarcat
Jun 5, 2011, 01:17 PM
Since no one knows what it is no one has any kind of integration with it in apps.

I think it's obvious it is replacing MobileMe, and there are plenty of apps with MobileMe integration.

*LTD*
Jun 5, 2011, 01:18 PM
What percentage of Apple's customer base do you think is interested in "transparently SSH"?

I don't even know what the hell that is, LOL.

Moccasin
Jun 5, 2011, 01:19 PM
Great, just great. I ordered a new Airport Extreme last week and it's going to be delivered - wait for it . . . Monday.

Guess I'll leave it in the box unopened so I can send it back to MacMall if the new iCloud versions are announced. My timing is usually better, but this news came from nowhere.

Well think of it positively - if you'd ordered it a few days earlier you'd be looking at selling on ebay...