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MacRumors
Jun 6, 2011, 02:37 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/06/mac-os-x-lion-set-for-july-debut-priced-at-29-99-mac-app-store-exclusive/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/f1307381950-500x333.jpg


Mac OS X has been around for 10 years now, built on a solid UNIX foundation. Phil Schiller said in the keynote that OS X has "evolved", and is great "not because of hardware, but because of software."

Apple today showed off (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/06/06lion.html) ten of the 250 new features in Mac OS X Lion (http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/), revisiting some of the features that had been highlighted previously and showing off some that are brand new. Some of the new features include Windows Migration Assistant, a new version of FileVault, built-in FaceTime and more. Mac OS X Lion Server isn't a totally separate installation, just additional apps that can be run on top of Lion.

Lion will be priced at $29.99 and available only on the Mac App Store as a 4 GB download, allowing users to pay once and install it on all of their machines, just like all Mac App Store apps. Apple did not announce specific release date for Mac OS X Lion, but narrow down the launch window to the month of July.Â*Customers who purchase a Mac between today and the Lion launch in July will get the upgrade free from the App Store.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/f1307382069-500x333.jpg



"New" features, most of which we have seen before -- but Apple feels they are important enough to demo:

1. Multi-touch gestures, very similar to iOS: Taken everything they've learned from iOS and applying that to Lion. Swipe, pinch, etc. Scrollbars disappear when not in use.

2. Full Screen Applications: "Really important for notebooks." Lion has a standard method for full screen apps. A swipe gesture allows you to get back to the desktop, and users can have more than one full screen app running at once, with a swipe gesture to switch between them.

3. Mission Control: The "best feature of Lion" according to Phil Schiller, is a combination of Spaces, Expose and an App Switcher. Spaces are managed through Mission Control, allowing them to be deleted and added on the fly.

4. Enhanced Photo Booth: This is a big feature for the teen crowd. Head into any Apple Store on a Friday or Saturday evening and you'll see many teenagers playing with Photo Booth and uploading pictures to Facebook. The new and improved Photo Booth can follow your face and make "targeted facial enhancements", such as making just your eyes huge.

5. Mac App Store: In the past 6 months, the Mac App Store has become the #1 software channel for Mac applications. Some developers have more than doubled their revenue by offering their software in the Mac App Store. New additions to the App Store in Lion will be in-app purchases, push notifications and application sandboxing for increased security.

6. Launchpad: Imagine the iOS home screen, with rows of app icons, on a Mac. That's Launchpad. It will make finding and organizing apps much, much easier for the average user (think, your Mom). You can even make folders, yet another iOS feature) within Launchpad. It's initiated by a gesture.

7. Resume: Instantly resume where you were in an application when you quit it -- just like iOS. There seems to be a trend popping up here. Works system wide, when you reboot, all of your windows and apps return how they were. Lion auto-saves everything. It makes for easy versioning, and reverting to past changes, much like Time Machine does now, but on a file-by-file basis. Every change is logged -- though it only stores the difference between revisions, making it very space efficient.

8. AirDrop: A new document sharing method. Lion will find other users running AirDrop and display all the machines it can see in the Finder. Sending files is as easy as dragging and dropping an icon on the AirDrop logo. The recipient gets a prompt, confirms they want the file, and it downloads to their computer. It sounds simple, but it should be very handy. BOOM.

9. Mail: Mail has been completely redesigned, with lots of inspiration from the iPad Mail client. Search looks much more intelligent, and there is a new conversation view apparently inspired by Gmail.

Article Link: Mac OS X Lion Set for July Debut Priced at $29.99, Mac App Store Exclusive (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/06/mac-os-x-lion-set-for-july-debut-priced-at-29-99-mac-app-store-exclusive/)



Eidorian
Jun 6, 2011, 02:39 PM
DVD or bust. Maybe even just removable physical media...

mrkramer
Jun 6, 2011, 02:45 PM
That's too bad, I wish it was available on a disk, my internet is too slow to buy it. By thie time I finish downloading a 4Gb file 10.8 will probaly be out. I wish Apple would give us options it would be cool if you could buy it from the app store or on some sort of physical media.

Alexjungle
Jun 6, 2011, 02:46 PM
DVD or bust. Maybe even just removable physical media...

Do you even have a mac?

moseleyite
Jun 6, 2011, 02:48 PM
I guess I'm lucky and can download this. I can quite understand those on slow internet connections being annoyed though. Perhaps a version too early.

A UK price of £20-25 (I guess) for both my Macs? Count me in! :)

Edit - thinking about it £30 is probably more like it but even so... much cheaper than expected.

Eorlas
Jun 6, 2011, 02:49 PM
So if you want to format and install lion you have to install SL, update to get mac app store version, and then download Lion...

Sounds like it'll be as long as installing w7 if you ask me.

cxny
Jun 6, 2011, 02:49 PM
Well the price is right, goodbye $129.00 w/the $199.00 "family" option!

Žalgiris
Jun 6, 2011, 02:50 PM
DVD or bust. Maybe even just removable physical media...

Wake up.

adztaylor
Jun 6, 2011, 02:50 PM
I guess I'm lucky and can download this. I can quite understand those on slow internet connections being annoyed though. Perhaps a version too early.

A UK price of £20-25 (I guess) for both my Macs? Count me in! :)

Edit - thinking about it £30 is probably more like it but even so... much cheaper than expected.

Confirmed at £20.99, great deal :)

chenks
Jun 6, 2011, 02:50 PM
my question is... if after i purchase Lion, what if i want to wipe my mac and install from scratch?

do i have to install 10.6 from DVD first and then upgrade to 10.7 via appstore? if yes then that is insane.

GeekLawyer
Jun 6, 2011, 02:51 PM
Great pricing, but I'm shocked the option to buy it on DVD (or other physical media) is gone. Thought we were some years from that reality...

(marc)
Jun 6, 2011, 02:51 PM
DVD or the Mac has died for me.

Fraaaa
Jun 6, 2011, 02:52 PM
Instead on going to the shop to buy Lion DVD, you can go to the Apple store and use the WiFi to download it.

MasterHowl
Jun 6, 2011, 02:52 PM
I will not sleep until this is out. I am so excited.

wrekhgnadf.nbkfgndg`fhnfhxgnhdfgx

KALLT
Jun 6, 2011, 02:53 PM
A bit of an anti-climax preview today. These are all features we already knew, not even marginally changed. Launchpad for example still seems to be clunky. I was hoping we would see some exciting new stuff. At least the pricing seems to be reasonable, although I'm having second thoughts on the limited distribution.

The real bummer for me is that we still haven't seen any sign of iWork ’11. I was really looking forward to that.

Eidorian
Jun 6, 2011, 02:53 PM
Do you even have a mac?I do. Why do you ask?


Wake up.I honestly do not want to use the App Store or be tied to an account.

OmegaRed1723
Jun 6, 2011, 02:53 PM
Honestly, how will this work? We have 5 Macs in our home. Apple is telling me we have to waste 20GB of bandwidth (Comcast data cap here) to update all our machines? The idea of downloading the same thing over and over again really irks me. I'd much rather download it once, and create a bootable USB stick or DVD. And, as others have mentioned, how will we perform clean installs should the need arise (new HDD, fresh start, etc)? Will I have to install 10.6 only to have to re-download the 4GB Lion? This is bogus.

RafaelT
Jun 6, 2011, 02:53 PM
Awesome price... better give us a way to burn a copy though.

3N16MA
Jun 6, 2011, 02:53 PM
Would have liked to see some more new features announced however what was shown looks great. $29.99 price point looks like the standard now which is nice but digital distribution only is odd.

moseleyite
Jun 6, 2011, 02:53 PM
Confirmed at £20.99, great deal :)

Well, I'll be... 21 quid? For both my Macs? I'm in!

Any ideas on download size yet?

elschus
Jun 6, 2011, 02:54 PM
I wonder if this will affect the up-to-date program Apple has run in the past on new Macs...

adztaylor
Jun 6, 2011, 02:54 PM
Well, I'll be... 21 quid? For both my Macs? I'm in!

Any ideas on download size yet?

4GB I've heard.

dukebound85
Jun 6, 2011, 02:54 PM
I do. Why do you ask?

Yea, I am curious why he asked too...

I wish they had a dvd option.


Honestly, how will this work? We have 5 Macs in our home. Apple is telling me we have to waste 20GB of bandwidth (Comcast data cap here) to update all our machines? The idea of downloading the same thing over and over again really irks me. I'd much rather download it once, and create a bootable USB stick or DVD. And, as others have mentioned, how will we perform clean installs should the need arise (new HDD, fresh start, etc)? Will I have to install 10.6 only to have to re-download the 4GB Lion? This is bogus.

I believe so, unless all the computers you update have the same appleid

Sackvillenb
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
This seems pretty neat... but we'll have to see how these features really work in "real life". But, I'm pretty happy with this. Kinda sucks for people with slow internet though, for the install. And someone raised a good point about how reinstallation might be annoying...

We'll see how the details turn out.

Discoverer
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
Apple is genius. Now, if you want the next version of the Mac OS, you have to register an Apple ID, which may encourage you to buy more things in the App Store and iTunes music store in the future.

Want a clean install? Buy a new Mac!

milo
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
I'm surprised there's no DVD option, but it doesn't bother me as long as it's easy to create either a bootable DVD or bootable volume (secondary drive or USB thumb drive).

Apple just needs to give more info on this, the big concern is if your boot drive crashes. I assume they have a solution figured out, they just need to let everyone know what that is to quiet down the worriers.

The price is fantastic, and looks like some great features. Heck, it's worth thirty bucks to me just to get Resume.

hvfsl
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
my question is... if after i purchase Lion, what if i want to wipe my mac and install from scratch?

do i have to install 10.6 from DVD first and then upgrade to 10.7 via appstore? if yes then that is insane.
They will most likely have an option where you can save the installation files to a memory stick and boot off that (bit like where Windows gives you the option to create a boot DVD if you don't have a Windows disc).

But nothing about Lion really makes me want to upgrade, especially as I will have to spend a few hundred buying Intel versions of Office and Adobe CS.

Sacird
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
DVD or the Mac has died for me.

They are changing everything again. They learned this and that.

I would pay $50 for it on disk or USB drive.

mrkramer
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
my question is... if after i purchase Lion, what if i want to wipe my mac and install from scratch?

do i have to install 10.6 from DVD first and then upgrade to 10.7 via appstore? if yes then that is insane.

Unless there is some way that they will let you burn your own DVD that's the only possible way to do it. I also wonder what happens if you are away from home without good Internet access and need to restore your computer is there a way to do that if you are already on Lion?

flooce
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
So we all were positive about the "no new features" in Snow Leopard, to massively revamp the "under the hood" things, so that we will get all the good features the next time.
And we were waiting for this?

LarryC
Jun 6, 2011, 02:55 PM
Lion isn't even a new OS. It is just an update to Snow Leopard. They actually said that we are in the post personal computer era. That pretty much says it all!

radiohed
Jun 6, 2011, 02:56 PM
Well, $29.99 is an awesome price. :D It will be interesting to find out what the install options will be. I have a 2010 Mac Mini server and only want to upgrade to the user version of Lion. I hope there is a way to format and change my raid as part of the install process for Lion, and do a clean install. :eek:

blueroom
Jun 6, 2011, 02:56 PM
For an OS I'm more comfortable with physical media. I dont mind downloading it as long as you can put it on a DVD or USB stick I'm happy.

polaris20
Jun 6, 2011, 02:56 PM
Serious question: 20% of my company now run Mac. How am I supposed to do a group license buy, if I have to do it through the Mac App Store? Kind of a pain in the butt.

LastLine
Jun 6, 2011, 02:56 PM
Confirmed at £20.99, great deal :)

Actually less than that, $29.99 on app store should scale to £17.99 IIRC.

dukebound85
Jun 6, 2011, 02:57 PM
Actually less than that, $29.99 on app store should scale to £17.99 IIRC.

not all countries get the same price..

bootedbear
Jun 6, 2011, 02:57 PM
$30 for "all you can eat"? Fantastic!

And a lot of these new features target minor productivity annoyances I have with OS X. Very much looking forward to it.

Fraaaa
Jun 6, 2011, 02:58 PM
my question is... if after i purchase Lion, what if i want to wipe my mac and install from scratch?

do i have to install 10.6 from DVD first and then upgrade to 10.7 via appstore? if yes then that is insane.

When you download Lion can either upgrade or normally install it as new. Lion will still there.

ppc_michael
Jun 6, 2011, 02:58 PM
I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?

And what about troubleshooting, disk repair, etc that normally requires booting from external media?

GoodWatch
Jun 6, 2011, 02:58 PM
While the download poses no problem to me (120/10 link), I'm a little concerned about those who don't have ample bandwidth at their disposal. 4 GB is nothing to sniff at. I mean, the costs of the medium and distribution are passed on to the consumer so why not provide for this this alternative?

LarryC
Jun 6, 2011, 02:58 PM
Well, I'll be... 21 quid? For both my Macs? I'm in!

Any ideas on download size yet?

Yeah, it is four GB. This isn't a new OS. This is just an update or an add-on to Snow Leopard.

adztaylor
Jun 6, 2011, 02:58 PM
Actually less than that, $29.99 on app store should scale to £17.99 IIRC.

No, it's £20.99 http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/

d0minick
Jun 6, 2011, 02:59 PM
I have 3 Macs to update. And at that price, I can say, that YES I WILL:D:D:D:D

I like that price point.

GoodWatch
Jun 6, 2011, 02:59 PM
I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?

My guess is that the pre-Lion versions remain for sale on DVD.

dukebound85
Jun 6, 2011, 02:59 PM
I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?

New computer if your mac was unable to install SL

If your mac was SL compatible, you dl SL and then dl Lion to my understanding

`challenger
Jun 6, 2011, 03:00 PM
According to Amazon, you can get Lion on DVD on December 31, 2020. Everything is cool!

shaunymac
Jun 6, 2011, 03:00 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Yes! No more optical media. I ditched my SuperDrive a couple years back in favor of an additional hard drive. Now I don't have to hook up a mac in target mode or hunt down a external DVD drive. YES!

Oh, and TRIM support finally. My SSD is begging to be cleaned.

green86
Jun 6, 2011, 03:00 PM
Wake up.

Nope, YOU get real. I own three Macs, with plans to buy more in the future, and I'm quite often upgrading my boot drive (At least once a year). So now, I have to Install SL, download 4GB worth of data on each machine!, THEN instal Lion. Cool.

I'm done.... They are making macs into toys, and I want a real computer. I've been faithfully buying Macs for 14 years solid. This direction will blow up in their face. Steve Jobs F'ed up in the 80's, and he is doing it again.

jukeofurl
Jun 6, 2011, 03:01 PM
I saw on another forum, a commenter lamenting the impractical D/L of a Lion upgrade via dial up. Somebody arrogantly replied - "it will take a little longer..." Yeah. A little.

For many reasons, beyond some users control, dial up is all we can get in our location to connect. And it isn't always money. No one needs to read my long story - it's 100% unreal on every count.

But to ask somebody if they even have a Mac? sure - sometimes trolls show up. Maybe they have an Etch-a-Sketch. Or an old Cray. However this is a real concern for some - I do have a Mac & I've been around since college basement sized IBM computers & Do not fold, spindle or mutilate. So, if you can't empathize or be compassionate. Be glad you're not us and S T F U.:apple:

YourHerojb
Jun 6, 2011, 03:01 PM
Just tell me the exact date and which time zone that is based off of please :rolleyes:

Fraaaa
Jun 6, 2011, 03:01 PM
Serious question: 20% of my company now run Mac. How am I supposed to do a group license buy, if I have to do it through the Mac App Store? Kind of a pain in the butt.

How clicking download is any hard than keep putting DVD in and out a tower?

andi242
Jun 6, 2011, 03:01 PM
I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?
you are not.

DVD or the Mac has died for me.
4 GB download should include a dmg-to-usb-option.
hopefully. ;)

definitive
Jun 6, 2011, 03:02 PM
it will probably end up getting ripped one way or another for backup purposes. seriously, how do you think people will go about restoring their new macs that come with lion preinstalled? unless ofcourse apple starts selling computers with a secondary hard drive. they'll either continue including backup dvd's or usb drives like with macbook air. i just don't see them phasing out the dvd drive just yet, because a lot of the software today is still sold on cd's.

LastLine
Jun 6, 2011, 03:02 PM
not all countries get the same price..

Yeah, oddly though any other $30 app equates to £17.99 - I ran on assumption, I was wrong. Still...an odd way to work - good price in any case.

LarryC
Jun 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
According to Amazon, you can get Lion on DVD on December 31, 2020. Everything is cool!

That is just too long to wait :D

almostaskater62
Jun 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
i'm kinda skeptical about this too...i was planning on doing a fresh install of this as well and i'll be slightly disappointed if that's not an option. the 4gig download thing isn't a big deal to me but it's weird they don't even offer it physically, i guess they just really want to get everyone on the mac app store bandwagon (i personally think it's totally unnecessary and kind of annoying frankly)

i also really hope you can turn off the stupid ios things they've brought over to lion (disappearing scroll bars for instance - i like knowing how far down a page i am, and the reversed scrolling on trackpads - years of going one way why would i want to switch it just to make it more iphone-like)

all in all i'm not totally convinced by lion, i'll upgrade eventually i guess once i'm sure everything i've gotten used to in snow leopard will work in lion. i'm way more excited for ios 5

OllyW
Jun 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
I guess I'm lucky and can download this. I can quite understand those on slow internet connections being annoyed though. Perhaps a version too early.

A UK price of £20-25 (I guess) for both my Macs? Count me in! :)

Edit - thinking about it £30 is probably more like it but even so... much cheaper than expected.

It's £20.99 in the UK.

cav23j
Jun 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
im sure if you have slow internet connections or data caps then you will be able to take it to an apple store and do the download over their wi-fi connection

haravikk
Jun 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
Maybe it'll come with the option to burn it to a DVD? I hope-so, as I've been delaying a wipe of my machine in anticipation of Lion as it didn't seem worth doing if I'd be updating the OS not long after.

But if you can't wipe your machine then how in the heck do people without a DVD of Snow Leopard do it?

mrkramer
Jun 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?

And what about troubleshooting, disk repair, etc that normally requires booting from external media?

Maybe Apple will keep selling snow leopard so you can buy that and then upgrade. I don't know, I don't think Apple thought this through too much they should have waited until the oldest computers to support the OS came with 10.6 before they switched to digital download only, maybe we would all have enough bandwidth to actually upgrade by then too.

j-a-x
Jun 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
I wonder how a clean install works? I wonder if the App Store download includes a disk image of the installer. If so that sounds good to me. I'd rather download it the day it's released than wait for a DVD.

ChristianJapan
Jun 6, 2011, 03:04 PM
Nice price tag; and media-free is ok for me too. By internet bandwidth is also big enough ... can't wait for July

cav23j
Jun 6, 2011, 03:05 PM
it will probably end up getting ripped one way or another for backup purposes. seriously, how do you think people will go about restoring their new macs that come with lion preinstalled? unless ofcourse apple starts selling computers with a secondary hard drive. they'll either continue including backup dvd's or usb drives like with macbook air. i just don't see them phasing out the dvd drive just yet, because a lot of the software today is still sold on cd's.

you will get a disc or usb drive only if you buy a new mac with Lion
alot more then $29

adztaylor
Jun 6, 2011, 03:05 PM
My internet speed is by no means the fastest. But it makes up for the fact I have no download cap so it will just take longer. Doesn't bother me.

roland.g
Jun 6, 2011, 03:05 PM
So what disc comes with a new Mac. Even more incentive for me to wait for the Lion release and then some to make sure it comes preinstalled on my new iMac.

Would really have liked a release date and not a release month.

YourHerojb
Jun 6, 2011, 03:08 PM
I wonder how bootcamp will work without a mac os disc

Fraaaa
Jun 6, 2011, 03:09 PM
Maybe it'll come with the option to burn it to a DVD? I hope-so, as I've been delaying a wipe of my machine in anticipation of Lion as it didn't seem worth doing if I'd be updating the OS not long after.

But if you can't wipe your machine then how in the heck do people without a DVD of Snow Leopard do it?

Have you ever installed Mac OS X?

This is not Windows. You don't 'Format C:' and then boot from the DVD drive.

Just run the Lion installer and it will do the formatting while installing Lion.

aristotle
Jun 6, 2011, 03:09 PM
I do. Why do you ask?


I honestly do not want to use the App Store or be tied to an account.
Bad credit then eh? Do you work in a "cash" only business?

4x4bob
Jun 6, 2011, 03:09 PM
Back to what another user said, so we need more details about the multiple users purchase.

So as a household that has 5 macs, will each machine have to download the 4Gb file, or will they make it possible to flash drive a dmg? Or are they going to force each user to download via the app store?

This isn't a huge deal breaker for me, as I usually file the DVD upgrade forever (unless something goes wrong and I have to reinstall on a clean drive, which has happened once to me). But 4Gb times 5 computers turns into 20Gb, which could take some serious time to download.

mrkramer
Jun 6, 2011, 03:10 PM
So what disc comes with a new Mac. Even more incentive for me to wait for the Lion release and then some to make sure it comes preinstalled on my new iMac.

Would really have liked a release date and not a release month.

Probably they will give it too you on a USB stick, or I could also see them having a database of serial numbers of macs that shipped with Lion, and if you serial number maches a computer that shipped with lion it becomes a free download.

alust2013
Jun 6, 2011, 03:10 PM
I'm just curious as to how we are supposed to access the system tools like when booting from the OS install disk. Sounds like if you need a reinstall or something like that, you'll have to ask apple first. I'll have to make sure that I still have the control I want over it before I download. If not, SL it is.

ftaok
Jun 6, 2011, 03:12 PM
Yeah, oddly though any other $30 app equates to £17.99 - I ran on assumption, I was wrong. Still...an odd way to work - good price in any case.

You forgot to add the VAT in the UK. It's either 17.5% or 20%. Either way, with VAT added, it's more than 21 UK pounds.

nutjob
Jun 6, 2011, 03:13 PM
How clicking download is any hard than keep putting DVD in and out a tower?

When you don't have an internet connection. Oy, what a genius.

vettori
Jun 6, 2011, 03:14 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

No DVD is not a good thing for me. Problems with users that don't have snow leopard, multiple macs means multiple downloads? Think of a company with a few hundreds computers. Mac App store purchases can't also be deducted here in Italy. I hope they'll give us the DVD as an option!

3bs
Jun 6, 2011, 03:14 PM
Just a quick question. Can I use those itunes gift cards to buy Lion on the Mac App store? Or any other program there

baleensavage
Jun 6, 2011, 03:15 PM
Apple really needs to adress the business world with this and come up with a solution that will work. The Mac App store is not currently set up to handle business accounts. So what is a business with 20-30 computers supposed to do for this? Plus there's the download it over and over problem. Do they seriously want us to download the entire OS for every computer in the company we upgrade. Plus theres the issue of clean installs. If they allow you to make a bootable DVD from it, then that will help, but I will be very surprised if they do that. From a sysadmin standpoint, this is a nightmare. They should at least offer the option for business customers to purchase physical media for an inflated price.

milo
Jun 6, 2011, 03:15 PM
I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?

You can't, apple says 10.6 is required. I'm having trouble imagining someone who doesn't have 10.6 yet who's mad they can't get 10.7 right away.

This isn't a new OS. This is just an update or an add-on to Snow Leopard.

How exactly do you define that? You could argue either way, it's just semantics. But it's hard to complain for $29. What features are missing that people want to see?


We have 5 Macs in our home. Apple is telling me we have to waste 20GB of bandwidth (Comcast data cap here) to update all our machines?

Nope, you download it on one then you can copy it to the other four.

...create a bootable USB stick or DVD.

Hopefully that is Apple's plan, they just need to release that info to take care of the worries.

And, as others have mentioned, how will we perform clean installs should the need arise (new HDD, fresh start, etc)? Will I have to install 10.6 only to have to re-download the 4GB Lion? This is bogus.

Nope, you just need 10.6 to run App store and download it, once you have the download you can do a fresh install straight from that. Reminds me of the people who were convinced that a 10.6 install would require installing 10.5 and upgrading since that OS was an "upgrade".

So now, I have to Install SL, download 4GB worth of data on each machine!, THEN instal Lion.

No you don't.

Macnoviz
Jun 6, 2011, 03:16 PM
For the people worried about restoring their Macs without a disc, the full overview of new features has an answer:

Internet Restore and Utilities

Built into Lion
OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.

Browse the web with Safari
Recovery mode now includes the Safari web browser, so you can check your email or browse the Apple Support site.

Reinstall OS X
OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.

Restore from a Time Machine backup
Use recovery mode to restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.

cfedu
Jun 6, 2011, 03:16 PM
I have an OS X 10.6.0 retail disk. When I do a clean install with it I think I have to do 4 GB of updates before it is ready. How do those people complaining manage to do to do a fresh install and updates with slow internet?

FroMann
Jun 6, 2011, 03:16 PM
Even though there is no DVD or Flash Drive for restore, I am sure there will be an option to restore a Mac to a clean installation just in case you want to start from new or sell a Mac. I was never expecting a $29.99 price tag.

Want a clean install? Buy a new Mac!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew

Žalgiris
Jun 6, 2011, 03:17 PM
I do. Why do you ask?


I honestly do not want to use the App Store or be tied to an account.

Burn your passport and credit cards too then. Go live the wild then, because now it's just hypocritical.

MacHiavelli
Jun 6, 2011, 03:18 PM
Just a quick question. Can I use those itunes gift cards to buy Lion on the Mac App store? Or any other program there

I've used iTunes gift cards to buy apps. Assume Lion will be the same.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 03:18 PM
When you don't have an internet connection. Oy, what a genius.

obviously you have an internet connection now :D

agmaster
Jun 6, 2011, 03:18 PM
If you think about it, since it is download only Apple is not having to put it on thousands and thousands of dvd's. I bet if it were available on disk they would be charging $50 for any version and not just $30. If you download a disk image file from the MAS, you can burn it to your own blank dvd so you can use it to wipe your hard drive and reinstall 10.7 or other things having a dvd makes easy. I'm just happy that its $30, downloading isn't a problem having FIOS, but I know how people with slower download speeds are going to suffer a bit since I had DSL before.

FrizzleFryBen
Jun 6, 2011, 03:19 PM
It's going to be interesting when it comes time to upgrade the 15 iMacs and 6 MBPs at the office. I really don't want to tie my Credit Card to other people's accounts and I don't think I'm allowed to tie my account to 21+ computers. I've been asking Apple for Corporate .me accounts for a while and recently for a single Corporate Apple ID account to purchase software. I just can't see how tying company owned software to an individual rather than a device is a good idea. People come and people go and managing Apple IDs and Credit Cards associated with them will be a nightmare for me.

I hope they get this right to help businesses manage their software. And maybe it's in the plan...till then I'm nervous. :o

jackeill
Jun 6, 2011, 03:20 PM
Well... how do I upgrade from Leopard? Or even from Tiger? Kinda own goal... I'm stuck with 10.5 then. It has the best Expose anyway.

Eidorian
Jun 6, 2011, 03:20 PM
Bad credit then eh? Do you work in a "cash" only business?I am quite fond of cash.

Burn your passport and credit cards too then. Go live the wild then, because now it's just hypocritical.Activation is bad enough but you are not tied to a name, address, and credit card number. I really do not see a way around the sovereignty of nations in practical terms for me. Not to mention the additional risks and costs are far beyond just getting a passport.

If life ever gets bad enough I can always download a Linux distro over the free wireless at the library.

iEvolution
Jun 6, 2011, 03:20 PM
I love how apple isn't giving you guys options that sucks. Unfortunately thats how apple is they just do things their way and don't care who it leaves in the dust.

I think the whole Mac App Store is ridiculous in general.

jonnysods
Jun 6, 2011, 03:20 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Sweet. But I think I'm going to wait a few months to see how this OS experience is for users.

GoodWatch
Jun 6, 2011, 03:21 PM
How clicking download is any hard than keep putting DVD in and out a tower?


I can think of a dozen reasons but how about flooding your downlink and not being able do to a coordinated upgrade on 30 machines in one go? Duh!

old-wiz
Jun 6, 2011, 03:21 PM
For the people worried about restoring their Macs without a disc, the full overview of new features has an answer:

Internet Restore and Utilities

Built into Lion
OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.

Reinstall OS X
OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.

Restore from a Time Machine backup
Use recovery mode to restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.

But what if your HDD crashes? Then you have no restore partition nor recovery mode.

And Lion adds another partition to your HDD? That's certain to mess up people using Bootcamp or multiple partitions on their bood disk.

Also if you are tight on disk space you have to save 4GB plus the overhead instead of having it on external media.

oldwatery
Jun 6, 2011, 03:22 PM
Lame update...lame form of delivery.
This is iOS 5 for your Mac...... in the era of "the post PC revolution".
There you have it folks...straight from the horses mouth. :mad:

chipz
Jun 6, 2011, 03:22 PM
Too exclusive for me! I'm not about to spend hours downloading this OS to all my macs. Either give us a DVD or USB option, or I'll be staying with SL. And with no support for older programs, this stinks. No wonder Apple can't get its foot in the business world door. Most businesses like to stay with the old and reliable. Apple now requires you to download to all your computers (even though the price is great), but it also may not run your older software. Bummer! If this policy continues Apple may become the new Microsoft!

Lesser Evets
Jun 6, 2011, 03:22 PM
Looks good.
Can't wait until late 2012 when it is stable and reliable.

AidenShaw
Jun 6, 2011, 03:23 PM
For the people worried about restoring their Macs without a disc, the full overview of new features has an answer:

Internet Restore and Utilities

Built into Lion
OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.

FAIL if you've had a disk failure and have inserted a new hard drive.

stukick
Jun 6, 2011, 03:24 PM
Great. That download will only take about 4-5 hours to complete:(

gkarris
Jun 6, 2011, 03:25 PM
The $30 pricepoint for all your machines is magical! Helped along only with the fact that Apple doesn't have to create any physical copies.

I would imagine that Lion would have a "create restore disc" option to burn a DVD or dedicate a USB for the purpose of restoring the OS on a computer.

I'm on my Windows 7 Netbook right now and I found that out - has a "create Windows 7 Restore Image" option - just attach a DVD burner to create the discs (in this case your system image) and your good to go...

R3DH3R0
Jun 6, 2011, 03:27 PM
FAIL if you've had a disk failure and have inserted a new hard drive.

Then you have to reinstall Snow Leopard, then Lion.... Time saving, huh.... o.O

wikus
Jun 6, 2011, 03:27 PM
Apple is genius. Now, if you want the next version of the Mac OS, you have to register an Apple ID, which may encourage you to buy more things in the App Store and iTunes music store in the future.

Want a clean install? Buy a new Mac!

Apple is turning into Big Brother, if it hasnt already.

The lack of a DVD of OS X Lion is despicable. Canadians generally only get 25gb of bandwidth per month from Bell and each gigabyte after costs $2.00. My area does not support speeds faster than 2mbit, so a real life download speed of no better than 250kbps. A 4gb download of this would cripple most people on an already disgusting offering from a monopoly telecom company.

I expected better from Apple, such as, I don't know, TRIM support in OS X since they've been selling macs with SSDs for nearly 4 years now? And no, apple branded SSDs dont count, they're inferior to the offerings from Intel, OCZ, etc.

I really hate what Apple has become.

JorickF
Jun 6, 2011, 03:28 PM
Oh wow, so if I want Lion I'm going to have to buy Snow Leopard and then buy Lion? That's ridiculous.

(The reason why I don't have Snow Leopard yet is simply because my mac was still new when Snow Leopard got released and I decided to skip a version)

Porco
Jun 6, 2011, 03:28 PM
Sorry if I'm being slow or have missed something obvious, but how are people with multiple macs in their house going to avoid having to download 4GB multiple times? Isn't it going to be tied to your iTunes account? In which case how does that work for a family or small business with a bad internet connection?

I'm starting to get really irritated by Apple's assumption that everyone has super-fast internet connections. I'm already having to think how on earth I'm going to update my parent's machines on their flaky, slow connection. Drive to an Apple store with their machines? Really? Do you know how insane and backwards that suggestion is?!

I guess I'll have to clone their machines, bring those clones over to my house, boot from their disks, update, take the updated clones back, clone back...

Thanks for that Apple.

Price is good, some of the features look ok - full screen apps reminds me of my Amiga days, which is nice.

haiggy
Jun 6, 2011, 03:29 PM
im wondering what effect this has on the hackintosh market? how are you going to crack and install the OS if there is no physical dvd and have to get it through the mac app store??

CplBadboy
Jun 6, 2011, 03:31 PM
Instead on going to the shop to buy Lion DVD, you can go to the Apple store and use the WiFi to download it.

And what happens of you are 400 miles from an Apple Store? Personally I have a fast internet connection but Apple really have rose tinted specs on if they think that 58 million mac users have access to an Apple store, a fast internet connection or live close to an Apple Store. This kinda **** is way to early to roll out.

As for the whole event it was all a bit meh. No new hardware to sing about was hoping that the new localised Time Capsule idea was gonna be true. That way I can store all my content and access it. My library is over 100 Gigs. So what Ive gathered is that all my content will be uploaded to the cloud and then pushed to my iPhne. just one problem my phone is only 32 gig. I so dont get this approach.

As for Lion, well having seen Windows 8 previewed the other day it seems to outshine Lion in every aspect. Lion is a mere update and overall disappointing. Lets hope the store gets an update of new MBA's tomorrow and Mac Pros. At least this week wont be such an anti climax.:(

zorinlynx
Jun 6, 2011, 03:32 PM
Some points...

When you download Lion from the app store you *SUPPOSEDLY* get a DMG file that you can install Lion from. You can copy this DMG file to as many Macs as you want and install from it without issue.

This is the story I've heard from developers. There's no guarantee they won't change this for the final release, but why would they?

Also, if installing Lion creates a recovery partition, there should be no reason you can't burn this partition to a DVD for future bare metal installations. Again, this is speculation, don't quote me on it. But based on what I heard I see no reason why this won't be possible.

Right now I'm more concerned about people who are on slow internet connections who can't download 4GB files easily. One friend of mine has a 5GB quota for the entire month. Boom, 4/5th of the quota gone after downloading Lion? Apple really should provide a solution for these folks. And "Free Wifi" isn't always fast. No one should have to sit in a McDonald's for five hours to download an OS.

ciTiger
Jun 6, 2011, 03:32 PM
I guess this means the next MBP's will probably not have an OD... Or have it optional... This is a big push...

diamond.g
Jun 6, 2011, 03:33 PM
For the people worried about restoring their Macs without a disc, the full overview of new features has an answer:

Internet Restore and Utilities

Built into Lion
OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.

Browse the web with Safari
Recovery mode now includes the Safari web browser, so you can check your email or browse the Apple Support site.

Reinstall OS X
OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.

Restore from a Time Machine backup
Use recovery mode to restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.
I seem to remember a lot of folks deriding the recovery partion idea as wasted space on the disc...
im wondering what effect this has on the hackintosh market? how are you going to crack and install the OS if there is no physical dvd and have to get it through the mac app store??

someone downloads the app, cracks the checks and re-uploads the fixed app.

0dev
Jun 6, 2011, 03:34 PM
I'm not paying for an OS that isn't coming on physical media. I need the ability to do clean installs.

Guini
Jun 6, 2011, 03:34 PM
Love the free upgrade if you purchase from now until it's released, very cool :)

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 03:35 PM
Like many users i'm assuming, I too have a very slow internet connection (1.4 MB) and so a 4GB download could take almost an entire day, if not more. However, I don't think its all gloom.

For a start, Apple are doing their bit for the environment and not simply giving everyone an install DVD, regardless if they wanted it not. The cost manufacturing and distributing them has also been taken out of account, and this has helped the pricepoint... £20.99 is literally insane, cheaper than Snow Leopard and has more features.

My only query is the option to make a 'disc image'. Since the purchase is linked to ones Apple account, it wouldn't make sense for Apple to allow people to exchange these disk images and thus contribute to piracy. However, Apple would also be stupid not to give people the option of putting this OS on a USB stick/DVD for back-ups.

The only reason I can see for them not including this option, aside from piracy, is that they know in the future they wish to phase out mechanical components such as the Hard Disc Drive, which is supposedly less reliable than Solid State Drives. Therefore, they presume that the lesser chance of a SSD failure warrants not needing some kind of back-up, and also paves the way for a separate SSD diode that contains the OS, as was rumored a few months ago.

laurenr
Jun 6, 2011, 03:35 PM
I have a theory about Corporations/offices with multiple Macs. It just does not seem to make sense to go through the tedious process of a 4 Gig download for each individual computer. Perhaps Apple would provide some kind of system whereby only one download is made, eg to an office Server, and the upgrade to Lion is done from there?? Would this not be a logical process? What if an office has 40 Macs? That number multiplied by 4 Gigs just does not seem like an intelligent solution. The purchaser could then buy however many Licenses are necessary for all the Macs.

Opinions?

daveslc
Jun 6, 2011, 03:35 PM
The big question for me is will Mail still suck? Or will they improve its functionality and get rid of its many annoying idiosyncracies? Will it be powerful? Or just look pretty? Will it compete with Eudora or Outlook?

I'm still using Eudora, which unfortunately is not supposed to work on Lion.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 03:36 PM
I'm not paying for an OS that isn't coming on physical media. I need the ability to do clean installs.

so in 10 years you're still gonna be rockin' Snow Leopard?

keekl
Jun 6, 2011, 03:36 PM
Well... how do I upgrade from Leopard? Or even from Tiger? Kinda own goal... I'm stuck with 10.5 then. It has the best Expose anyway.

I'm quite satisfied with 10.5, wondering is 10.7 would have some "whiz bang" I couldn't live without but frankly didn't see anything better than I already have so when I'll upgrade OS when I finally get a new mini:cool:

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 03:36 PM
No one should have to sit in a McDonald's for five hours to download an OS.

Why would anyone be desperate enough to sit in McDonald's for five hours, just to download an operating system? :confused:

Pegamush
Jun 6, 2011, 03:37 PM
my concern here is that they have changed the gestures again!
what's wrong with the 4th finger? and how one is supposed to scroll horizontally?
source here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/gestures.html)

also, people should be more rational and less fanatic with all these apple news, the no-phisical-media obviously IS an issue for many, don't be so close-minded.

gramirez2012
Jun 6, 2011, 03:38 PM
It would be nice if Apple could provide a utility to take Lion from the App Store and make a bootable USB drive from it. I fully intended to format my hard drive and do a clean install of Lion when it came out.

weing
Jun 6, 2011, 03:39 PM
Hey Steve!

Can I come over to your place to download the 4 GB OS for all 4 of my devices? Or maybe I can just come to my apple store instead.

Imagine how the internet is going to be pounded on "day one".

MCIowaRulz
Jun 6, 2011, 03:39 PM
I chatted with an Apple rep.
Hello, Lynn

Good Afternoon! How may I help you today?

I see that Mac OS X Lion will be available in July

We are expecting a July release date.

I understand that it is Mac App store right now but what is the chance of getting a DVD? with a 1.5Mb connection I cannot download it.

I would be happy to look into that for you today!

Can I burn it to a DVD at a friends house?

At this time we do not have any information on whether it will be available to burn to a disc, or available on a disc.

I wouldn't be able to speculate until Apple makes an official announcement. I would be happy to send you a link to sign up for more information on Lion as Apple announces through email.

OK I guess that works

Click here to sign up for email announcements.

I would like to say that Yes, eventually downloading is great option for people but when you have a "local" ISP who only gives you DSL that is a problem.

Let me know if that link works for you.

I understand. Keep an eye out for an announcement from Apple regarding the DVD.

You would receive an email once they announce more details.

I put my e-mail in for more info.

Great!

Thank you for your time

My Pleasure!

blybug
Jun 6, 2011, 03:39 PM
I'm already having to think how on earth I'm going to update my parent's machines on their flaky, slow connection.

I'm thinking my parents with their flaky slow connection can probably live without the latest and greatest OS. As long as they're happy with their emailing and web browsing and facebooking on their rinky dink line, I'm not messing with them.

Maybe when they're ready to upgrade their cable, it will be time to upgrade to Lion.

SgtPepper12
Jun 6, 2011, 03:39 PM
Wow, just 23,99 EUR in Germany. Really something to get used to, usually the euro prices are the same as the dollar prices. I hope this gets to Apple hardware too someday.
Anyhow, shame that it's available through the Mac App Store only though I feel that they have to react to the people not knowing what to do when they change the hdd or the people that have more than just one mac at home. They can't just ignore the fact that this is extremly annoying. I guess they will give the option to back Lion up somehow.

Sacird
Jun 6, 2011, 03:39 PM
Guess that answers FCPX questions about delivery.

romeroc5
Jun 6, 2011, 03:39 PM
I am anxious to find out if anyone knows how this is going to work. I like to have the ability to do a clean install if needed or may even want to dual boot Lion and Snow Leopard. I have to imagine they will still have to offer a DVD installer of some sort for those who live in remote locations and do not have a high speed connection? Any thoughts anyone Let me know, I will want to get my hands on a DVD....

JPS
Jun 6, 2011, 03:40 PM
I'm not the only one who's baffled by how we can download this once onto one Mac and then transfer it to the second Mac--somehow--without buying it twice.

Can someone clarify, please?

0dev
Jun 6, 2011, 03:40 PM
so in 10 years you're still gonna be rockin' Snow Leopard?

No, I'll switch to Linux, which lets me do something as basic as a fresh install on a fresh hard drive.

FearlessFreep
Jun 6, 2011, 03:40 PM
Sigh - well, my internet at home stinks - caps out at 1MBPS during 'optimal' times, and is usually lower than that. Problem is it's the best alternative I have - no other form of high-speed is available for me.

If it's true that I can download it once and copy the dmg to other machines, then I guess that will work as I'll just take my MBP to someplace with a fast connection and go from there.

But I do not like the download-only model at all. There should be a physical option for those with crappy connections. I suspect Apple may quietly release one for those who ask.

gkarris
Jun 6, 2011, 03:41 PM
Sorry if I'm being slow or have missed something obvious, but how are people with multiple macs in their house going to avoid having to download 4GB multiple times? Isn't it going to be tied to your iTunes account? In which case how does that work for a family or small business with a bad internet connection?

You realize you can copy an App you download to another computer or backup to a disc drive?

When you install it on another machine, iTunes launches and then checks to see if that account on that machine is authorized to run the app.

My assumptions (same as when I transfer apps to another computer):

1. After you download the "OS X Lion Install App", drag it to a thumb drive (from iTunes).
2. Put the App on another computer (desktop or put the thumb drive in), and launch the App.
3. iTunes opens up to transfer the App to the iTunes folder and verifies that you are authorized to use the App on that machine.
4. Launch "OS X Lion Install" and your on your way.

Works for all my existing apps between my PC fileserver, where I sync my iPhone, and my MacBook, where I sync my iPad.

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 03:42 PM
"Electronic Distribution

Installs in place

Installing Lion from the Mac App Store is quick and easy. It takes only one click to download, then a few more clicks to run the installer."

To run the installer - the installer must surely be a DMG file.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 03:43 PM
No, I'll switch to Linux, which lets me do something as basic as a fresh install on a fresh hard drive.

cd drives are going goodbye man. people complained when new MBA didn't come with a dvd. then realized how cool the USB stick is.

times change. i haven't burned a cd in over a year +

blahblah100
Jun 6, 2011, 03:43 PM
Have you ever installed Mac OS X?

This is not Windows. You don't 'Format C:' and then boot from the DVD drive.

Just run the Lion installer and it will do the formatting while installing Lion.

What is the last version of Windows you installed, 3.1?

If you "Format C:" before you install any current versions of Windows, then I feel very sorry for you.

Full of Win
Jun 6, 2011, 03:43 PM
A red letter day is the collapse of the OS X ecosystem. Download only updates makes me ill. Just another step to making it iOS X.

gramirez2012
Jun 6, 2011, 03:44 PM
cd drives are going goodbye man. people complained when new MBA didn't come with a dvd. then realized how cool the USB stick is.

times change. i haven't burned a cd in over a year +

That's great, but I want to boot from an install image so I can format my disk before I install. So far, that doesn't appear to be possible.

adztaylor
Jun 6, 2011, 03:45 PM
A red letter day is the collapse of the OS X ecosystem. Download only updates makes me ill. Just another step to making it iOS X.

Makes you ill? Good lord, someone needs to get a fresh set of priorities in their life.

MacAddict1978
Jun 6, 2011, 03:45 PM
I eat crow on the price. I have passionately dismissed such a pricing point, but I'm very HAPPY to be wrong about this. :-) Yay $29

wikus
Jun 6, 2011, 03:45 PM
I wish macrumors had that positive/negative rating on news items.

OS X Lion is a major let down.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 03:45 PM
That's great, but I want to boot from an install image so I can format my disk before I install. So far, that doesn't appear to be possible.

who says you won't be able to download it and put it on a thumb drive? we don't know all the full details as of yet

emulator
Jun 6, 2011, 03:46 PM
A 2nd service pack for $29 again, nice. :D SJ was right, people will buy anything.

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 03:46 PM
This Lion page on the Apple site makes me laugh.

"To upgrade your Mac to OS X Lion, you don’t need to go to a store, take home a box and install a bunch of discs."

Urgh, OS X has only been a single disc for many years. And if your order it online, it can be posted the next day. Epic fail...

jmw1480
Jun 6, 2011, 03:46 PM
Love the free upgrade if you purchase from now until it's released, very cool :)

I saw this in the MacRumors.com story about the Keynote, but haven't watched the Keynote video yet to see if this was actually said, implied, or simply an assumption. Can anyone please confirm?

JLB-UK
Jun 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
Everyone worried about the reinstall process check out

http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/whats-new/features.html#internetrestore


OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.
OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.
Recovery mode now includes the Safari web browser, so you can check your email or browse the Apple Support sit
Use recovery mode to restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.


Helps explain some of the methods available to reinstall Mac OS X Lion but not sure what you do if you have a HD failure?

Sacird
Jun 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
A red letter day is the collapse of the OS X ecosystem. Download only updates makes me ill. Just another step to making it iOS X.

Yup, and I like how some still say CD's are gone, Steve just said so. When the other 90%+ of PC's start losing drives left and right then maybe. Be awhile still.

Thumb drives would be absolutely fine.

0dev
Jun 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
cd drives are going goodbye man. people complained when new MBA didn't come with a dvd. then realized how cool the USB stick is.

times change. i haven't burned a cd in over a year +

A USB stick would be fine as it's still physical media. What Apple is doing here is providing no physical media at all. That's the issue.

winston1236
Jun 6, 2011, 03:48 PM
Oh wow, so if I want Lion I'm going to have to buy Snow Leopard and then buy Lion? That's ridiculous.

(The reason why I don't have Snow Leopard yet is simply because my mac was still new when Snow Leopard got released and I decided to skip a version)




Same here! This is sloppy work by Apple I'm surprised to say the least.

cgbier
Jun 6, 2011, 03:48 PM
"Electronic Distribution

Installs in place

Installing Lion from the Mac App Store is quick and easy. It takes only one click to download, then a few more clicks to run the installer."

To run the installer - the installer must surely be a DMG file.

I haven't been able to access the App Store in months....

PatrickCocoa
Jun 6, 2011, 03:48 PM
Nope, YOU get real. I own three Macs, with plans to buy more in the future, and I'm quite often upgrading my boot drive (At least once a year). So now, I have to Install SL, download 4GB worth of data on each machine!, THEN instal Lion. Cool.

If the Lion update is handled like the developer preview (which was also distributed via the Mac App Store), then the download will be an installer that you should be able to burn to DVD and use on other machines.

Your other objections remain, however.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 03:49 PM
A USB stick would be fine as it's still physical media. What Apple is doing here is providing no physical media at all. That's the issue.

so when they give u the option to download the file to a usb stick you're still gonna complain bc it wasn't included in the purchase.

0dev
Jun 6, 2011, 03:49 PM
Everyone worried about the reinstall process check out

http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/whats-new/features.html#internetrestore


OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.
OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.
Recovery mode now includes the Safari web browser, so you can check your email or browse the Apple Support sit
Use recovery mode to restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.


Helps explain some of the methods available to reinstall Mac OS X Lion but not sure what you do if you have a HD failure?

Exactly. I upgraded my HD recently, and I did a clean install of OS X then ported my home folder over, so I have a fresh system with all my data on it. That's the best way to do any OS install.

With Lion, though, that does not appear to be possible.

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 03:50 PM
Same here! This is sloppy work by Apple I'm surprised to say the least.

Lion is awesome. iCloud is awesome. Owning nothing is awesome. You're holding it wrong. Blu-Ray is a bag of hurt. Non-issue.

codo
Jun 6, 2011, 03:51 PM
Pfft, I'll give it a go for £30! :)

Nah seriously - looks pretty good.

MacAddict1978
Jun 6, 2011, 03:51 PM
Honestly, how will this work? We have 5 Macs in our home. Apple is telling me we have to waste 20GB of bandwidth (Comcast data cap here) to update all our machines? The idea of downloading the same thing over and over again really irks me. I'd much rather download it once, and create a bootable USB stick or DVD. And, as others have mentioned, how will we perform clean installs should the need arise (new HDD, fresh start, etc)? Will I have to install 10.6 only to have to re-download the 4GB Lion? This is bogus.

I would hope you could just burn it to disc. You can now. But an OS isn't an app you can just drag and drop like iPhoto or something. Hopefully they have the install package there for you to do so, because that would be infuriating.

Razeus
Jun 6, 2011, 03:53 PM
My guess it's only adding what it needs to add to Snow Leopard to enable the "Lion" features. This is why install in place works. It's just give you the Delta's. Doesn't seem to be "under the hood" changes. Just a layer for iOS. This is truly the last of OS X as we know it.

dfs
Jun 6, 2011, 03:53 PM
At least for my own purposes, Lion sounds like a yawner. Some of its most highly touted features are stuff I've been doing for years using third-party software (for inst., DropCopy to move files between Macs on a LAN, Overflow to give me a tiled launching app., and I know there are auto-save utilities if I cared to use one). One new feature even manages to scare me a little (what are continual archived backups going to do to my hard disk space?). On the other hand, what seems to be conspicuously missing is any new "under the hood" innovation such as would make my Mac work better or faster. Even at the cheap price, weighing the advantages, such as they are, against the hassles inevitably involved in a system upgrade, since some third-party software developers take weeks or even months to come out with a new version, I seriously have to ask myself if this upgrade is worth it. This is a question Apple has never made me ask before.

mariov
Jun 6, 2011, 03:53 PM
For the people worried about restoring their Macs without a disc, the full overview of new features has an answer:

Internet Restore and Utilities

Built into Lion
OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.


Reinstall OS X
OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.

Restore from a Time Machine backup
Use recovery mode to restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.

Great. But i want to be able to create a bootable usb drive. For sure, that built-in recover partition will use a lot of space on my small 64GB SDD. (MBA)

PatrickCocoa
Jun 6, 2011, 03:53 PM
i'm kinda skeptical about this too...i was planning on doing a fresh install of this as well and i'll be slightly disappointed if that's not an option. the 4gig download thing isn't a big deal to me but it's weird they don't even offer it physically, i guess they just really want to get everyone on the mac app store bandwagon (i personally think it's totally unnecessary and kind of annoying frankly)

i also really hope you can turn off the stupid ios things they've brought over to lion (disappearing scroll bars for instance - i like knowing how far down a page i am, and the reversed scrolling on trackpads - years of going one way why would i want to switch it just to make it more iphone-like)

all in all i'm not totally convinced by lion, i'll upgrade eventually i guess once i'm sure everything i've gotten used to in snow leopard will work in lion. i'm way more excited for ios 5

You can turn off most of the "stupid iOS things" in Lion, including the disappearing scroll bars and the reversed scrolling.

Razeus
Jun 6, 2011, 03:54 PM
DVD's don't exist in the post-pc era.

OmegaRed1723
Jun 6, 2011, 03:54 PM
cd drives are going goodbye man. people complained when new MBA didn't come with a dvd. then realized how cool the USB stick is.


Exactly — so why can't apple give us a USB stick instead of a download? None of Lion's Internet Restore & Utilities features (http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/whats-new/features.html#internetrestore) are of any use on a brand-new hard drive.

darkeartg
Jun 6, 2011, 03:54 PM
LMAO they just screwed most of canada. Most Canadians have a 25 gig bandwidth cap.

azentropy
Jun 6, 2011, 03:54 PM
Lion has some nice features, but others just make me shake my head.

Scrollbars disappear when not in use.


This is not a feature to me. Sure on a smaller screen it is nice to save the space, but on a larger screen I like the smart scrollbars that quickly show me where I am on the page and how big the page, windows, text area actually is!

The de-colorization (just made that up) of iTunes continues to the Finder and to Mail (and probably other apps). Again being able to quickly identify folders and tasks by color is lost.

Overall the GUI is just bland. The radio dialogs, buttons, windows, scrollbars etc. all look like a huge step back. Some of the objects are now counter intuitive to what is in the foreground and what is in the background.

Oh well, I guess it is something I'll get used to - but been working with Lion Developer for a while now and still not a fan.

gnasher729
Jun 6, 2011, 03:55 PM
my question is... if after i purchase Lion, what if i want to wipe my mac and install from scratch?

do i have to install 10.6 from DVD first and then upgrade to 10.7 via appstore? if yes then that is insane.

No, you don't have to. You can continue with 10.5. I think people who didn't upgrade from 10.5 to 10.6, and therefore for example never were able to use the App Store, are not the target group for Lion.

I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?

They are not. If they upgrade from 10.5 to 10.6, why would they upgrade from 10.7? And why should Apple sell an upgrade from 10.5 to 10.7 for $29.99?

PatrickCocoa
Jun 6, 2011, 03:55 PM
Back to what another user said, so we need more details about the multiple users purchase.

So as a household that has 5 macs, will each machine have to download the 4Gb file, or will they make it possible to flash drive a dmg? Or are they going to force each user to download via the app store?

This isn't a huge deal breaker for me, as I usually file the DVD upgrade forever (unless something goes wrong and I have to reinstall on a clean drive, which has happened once to me). But 4Gb times 5 computers turns into 20Gb, which could take some serious time to download.

If the Lion update is handled like the developer preview (which was also distributed via the Mac App Store), then the download will be an installer that you should be able to burn to DVD and use on other machines.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 03:56 PM
Exactly — so why can't apple give us a USB stick instead of a download? None of Lion's Internet Restore & Utilities features (http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/whats-new/features.html#internetrestore) are of any use on a brand-new hard drive.

what's so hard about downloading it yourself and burning to cd or put on a thumb drive??

do you people complain when you burn a song on itunes and expect apple to send you the cd?

there is a reason technologies exist such as "CD" burners and "thumb drives"

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 03:56 PM
You can turn off most of the "stupid iOS things" in Lion, including the disappearing scroll bars and the reversed scrolling.

£20.99 for a bunch of On/Off buttons. Dubbed as being 'awesome' ;)

Yamcha
Jun 6, 2011, 03:56 PM
What I don't understand is how are you supposed to do a clean install, is that gone now? we all have to upgrade? thats an annoyance, but I'm sure someone will probably have it leaked and available on the net for us to burn on dvd's ..

I don't mind upgrading, but I don't know about u guys but sometimes I want to clean install because of all my old junk & mess that I don't even need, now the only method I can think of is installing Snow Leopard via DVD & updating to OS X Lion, I'm not against digital downloads, but this has now become a painful process..

Although if you download from the Mac App store and you are able to burn it to discs then I have no problem at all..

Porco
Jun 6, 2011, 03:57 PM
I'm thinking my parents with their flaky slow connection can probably live without the latest and greatest OS. As long as they're happy with their emailing and web browsing and facebooking on their rinky dink line, I'm not messing with them.

Maybe when they're ready to upgrade their cable, it will be time to upgrade to Lion.

Oh believe me, if they could upgrade their internet connection (cable?! lol, they get 1mbps ADSL at best, there is no cable) they would have already. They run a small business on that, and it often isn't fun, but possibly just as critical as whatever you do on your connection.

You realize you can copy an App you download to another computer or backup to a disc drive?

When you install it on another machine, iTunes launches and then checks to see if that account on that machine is authorized to run the app.

My assumptions (same as when I transfer apps to another computer):

1. After you download the "OS X Lion Install App", drag it to a thumb drive (from iTunes).
2. Put the App on another computer (desktop or put the thumb drive in), and launch the App.
3. iTunes opens up to transfer the App to the iTunes folder and verifies that you are authorized to use the App on that machine.
4. Launch "OS X Lion Install" and your on your way.

Works for all my existing apps between my PC fileserver, where I sync my iPhone, and my MacBook, where I sync my iPad.

Thanks for a sensible answer that attempts to help.

That's fine for one user, but for 3 or more different people's machines?
A) I'd hit the 5 machine limit pretty fast.
B) I'm not sure that's really going to be legit, because I'd be using my iTunes account to buy one copy for my machines, not for several different people's. Unless Apple is just going to give a free pass to install it on an many machines as you like as a special exception for the OS, as opposed to apps.

Either way, to be honest I think they should just give the option of a DVD install for those who want it.

Gasu E.
Jun 6, 2011, 03:58 PM
My only query is the option to make a 'disc image'. Since the purchase is linked to ones Apple account, it wouldn't make sense for Apple to allow people to exchange these disk images and thus contribute to piracy. However, Apple would also be stupid not to give people the option of putting this OS on a USB stick/DVD for back-ups.


At $29, I do not think they are terribly worried about piracy.

freiheit
Jun 6, 2011, 03:58 PM
Available via App Store only? So if someone never upgraded from 10.5 Leopard to 10.6 Snow Leopard, they cannot upgrade to 10.7 Lion? That seems a bit... silly. Apple must be really betting that everyone who could upgrade to 10.6 did, or is rubbing their hands together gleefully at the prospect of selling them a brand new Mac even if their 8-core model is more than sufficient to run Lion.

Personally I'm on 10.6 and plan to give 10.7 a pass because there's simply too many stupid "features" and not enough good ones to make it worth my while. I suppose this means I won't be allowed to upgrade to 10.8/11/whatever in the future.

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 03:59 PM
DVD's don't exist in the post-pc era.

Yep - Apple instead settle for compressed music, compressed 'HD' movies/TV shows, and presume that creative industries no longer need disc drives.

MH01
Jun 6, 2011, 04:01 PM
Burn your passport and credit cards too then. Go live the wild then, because now it's just hypocritical.

What are you going to do? Put your passport and credit cards in an envelope , send them to apple and let them decide?? You might want to check what hypocritical means..... cause your using it wrong!

Stella
Jun 6, 2011, 04:01 PM
Lion Exclusive to AppStore.

Apple haven't thought this through very well. Not everyone has broadband / fast internet connection.

I foresee that Apple will be introducing a DVD option.

Downloading 4GB just isn't practical for everyone who has a mac.

chaosbunny
Jun 6, 2011, 04:02 PM
DVD's don't exist in the post-pc era.

Privacy doesn't exist there too.

On topic, I will avoid Lion as long as possible, it always takes some .x updates until Adobe CS, Cinema 4D, all my fonts etc... work hassle free. And then, well, I don't like the direction Apple is going. Some years ago I really enjoyed the platform and found it far superior to Windows XP back then. But now, I don't really know what is the better of two evils...

Unfortunately none of the productivity programs and games that I want to use are available under Linux.

Lennholm
Jun 6, 2011, 04:02 PM
im sure if you have slow internet connections or data caps then you will be able to take it to an apple store and do the download over their wi-fi connection

You really expect people to carry their 27-inch iMac down to the store just to upgrade? Not to mention, my nearest Apple Store is in another country, across a lot of water

I wonder how bootcamp will work without a mac os disc

Perhaps exactly like it works on the current MBA?

Internet Restore and Utilities
[/B]
Built into Lion
OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.

Lol, the same solution that PC makers have been using since the 90's and Apple and its fans have discarded as a bad and unreliable solution.

Oh wow, so if I want Lion I'm going to have to buy Snow Leopard and then buy Lion? That's ridiculous.

(The reason why I don't have Snow Leopard yet is simply because my mac was still new when Snow Leopard got released and I decided to skip a version)

You weren't allowed to install 10.6 on top of 10.4 either according to the license (though it was certainly possible) without doing it from the $129 Mac Box Set version. The $29 price for 10.6 only allowed you to install it onto an existing 10.5 install.

I could imagine that this "Only through the Mac App Store" is for the upgrade that you purchase and that new Macs that actually ship with 10.7 will have a reinstall flash drive like the current MBA has

iSee
Jun 6, 2011, 04:02 PM
Helps explain some of the methods available to reinstall Mac OS X Lion but not sure what you do if you have a HD failure?

First, reinstall from your original discs.
Then reinstall Lion.

You probably want to copy the Lion package to a thumb drive or burn to disc if you don't want to have to download it again.

Not super convenient, but then a hard drive failure never is. Hopefully it happens infrequently enough that this isn't a major concern one way or another.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 04:04 PM
Yep - Apple instead settle for compressed music, compressed 'HD' movies/TV shows, and presume that creative industries no longer need disc drives.

how do u plan on ipads and iphones working when you are using physical media? bust out ur blu ray or dvd and rip it to your mac then sync it to your iOS device?

that's ridiculous.

there is a reason the streaming market exists. physical media is slowly dying.

ComicJ27
Jun 6, 2011, 04:04 PM
What are the chances they'll let us get a free Snow Leopard update in order to update to Lion? I hadn't updated my MacBook to Snow and if Lion is only downloadable through the Mac App Store, I need Snow to get the App store.

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 04:07 PM
how do u plan on ipads and iphones working when you are using physical media?

I beg your pardon?


bust out ur blu ray or dvd and rip it to your mac then sync it to your iOS device?

Thats what televisions are for. And if Mac's had Blu-Ray drives built in, then their would be no need to rip it.

physical media is slowly dying.

Blu-Ray sales are actually on the rise, and physical media is used all day, every day by creative industries across the world. To go to the studio where I work without a DVD drive in your notebook would be almost laughable.

Ieo
Jun 6, 2011, 04:09 PM
I am quite fond of cash.

Activation is bad enough but you are not tied to a name, address, and credit card number. I really do not see a way around the sovereignty of nations in practical terms for me. Not to mention the additional risks and costs are far beyond just getting a passport.

If life ever gets bad enough I can always download a Linux distro over the free wireless at the library.

It must be awesome being that afraid of everything. I bet It's like a roller-coaster of adrenaline every time some guy on the street asks if you're happy with your cable provider.

Razeus
Jun 6, 2011, 04:09 PM
Yep - Apple instead settle for compressed music, compressed 'HD' movies/TV shows, and presume that creative industries no longer need disc drives.

Then you're not that creative if you can't find other ways to store stuff without a disc drive...

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 04:11 PM
I beg your pardon?




Thats what televisions are for. And if Mac's had Blu-Ray drives built in, then their would be no need to rip it.



Blu-Ray sales are actually on the rise, and physical media is used all day, every day by creative industries across the world. To go to the studio where I work without a DVD drive in your notebook would be almost laughable.
you don't get it do you.

so when you go on vacation with your family you're going to bring along all your physical media blu ray's and your blu ray player so you can play your content?

iSee
Jun 6, 2011, 04:13 PM
What I don't understand is how are you supposed to do a clean install, is that gone now?...

My guess is that you will have the option of a clean install during installation just like you did for previous versions of OS X. Nothing about a download precludes that and I don't see why Apple would remove it.

The part of the Lion page that talks about a recovery partition gives you a clue how this would work. Most likely Lion uses that partition for the initial install as well as recovery. E.g., where in the SL install you would boot to the disc, in the Lion install you will boot to the recovery/install partition.

miniroll32
Jun 6, 2011, 04:13 PM
you don't get it do you.

so when you go on vacation with your family you're going to bring along all your physical media blu ray's and your blu ray player so you can play your content?

I don't go on holiday to watch movies, bud.

tom.96
Jun 6, 2011, 04:13 PM
I'm totally happy. £20.99 is a bargain and although my d/l speed is just 10mb on cable I calculate at top d/l speed it will take about an hour which is fine. At worst I can ring my cable company and upgrade to 30 or 50mb for a month to get it down a bit quicker! But I'm sure it won't come to that.

I'm more interested in whether it will speed my system as I'm only on a C2D 2ghz with gma 950. I know the snazzy graphical bits won't run on mine but I'm sure the upgrade will be worth it.

Gerwin
Jun 6, 2011, 04:14 PM
Lion only available through app store means goodbye to Mac for me. I think it's a stupid idea, because Apple doesn't even let me have an appstore account. Using a Mac was fun for 6 years, now it's time for something better. Goodbye everybody :)

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 04:14 PM
I don't go on holiday to watch movies, bud.

ever heard of kids on a long car ride?

Slider
Jun 6, 2011, 04:15 PM
I bought a new BTO MBP last week, it currently in Germany somewhere en-route.

Can I get Lion for free? The word is that if you buy a new system from today onwards you get the upgrade for free.

The alternative is to return the laptop when I get it this week.

barmann
Jun 6, 2011, 04:16 PM
Anything there for Macs ?

definitive
Jun 6, 2011, 04:17 PM
Here's what I think will happen with Lion:

When you download it, and execute the file, it will present you with an option to back it up to a DVD/USB drive. Dell has a similar feature called Data Protection or something like that where you launch it, and it asks you if you'd like to make recovery CD's from their restore partition.

I just don't see Apple not offering something like this, because it would be a lot of wasted time having to install an old operating system, and then get a 4GIG file and wait through its installation each time you need to reinstall your operating system.

Pegamush
Jun 6, 2011, 04:18 PM
Helps explain some of the methods available to reinstall Mac OS X Lion but not sure what you do if you have a HD failure?

that's a good point.. but seriously, what's the problem in letting the dmg boot from an usb drive? since tiger i always installed OSes from ipods! i don't see it not being possible with lion.
another note: the recovery partition will not be welcome in ssd users, who care about space!

easy4lif
Jun 6, 2011, 04:20 PM
welcome to the windowification of mac os x. no serial code to activate here, just linked to your mac store account. No more buy one disc and install all you like

thanks dear leader

G4DP
Jun 6, 2011, 04:22 PM
Have you ever installed Mac OS X?

This is not Windows. You don't 'Format C:' and then boot from the DVD drive.

Just run the Lion installer and it will do the formatting while installing Lion.

Have you ever clean installed an OS? Doesn't seem so from the arrogance in your post.

You need to run the installer ON THE DVD to run disc utilities to wipe a hard drive. If there is no DVD you can't do that can you?

Forkaster
Jun 6, 2011, 04:22 PM
Here are my 2 cents about OS X Lion's upgrade options.

As far as I know current developer previews are being seeded through the App Store, and they have managed to leak those out to the torrents in dmg format. Therefore I am guessing that whatever the download is, it will be possible to extract a dmg from it and do the usual USB stick dump or DVD burn.

Anyways it is useless to cry over update options if is impossible to update yet.

rmhop81
Jun 6, 2011, 04:23 PM
Here are my 2 cents about OS X Lion's upgrade options.

As far as I know current developer previews are being seeded through the App Store, and they have managed to leak those out to the torrents in dmg format. Therefore I am guessing that whatever the download is, it will be possible to extract a dmg from it and do the usual USB stick dump or DVD burn.

Anyways it is useless to cry over update options if is impossible to update yet.

exactly :)

azentropy
Jun 6, 2011, 04:23 PM
welcome to the windowification of mac os x. no serial code to activate here, just linked to your mac store account. No more buy one disc and install all you like

thanks dear leader

Buying one disc and install on all you like wasn't legal anyway (since System 7!). This option allows you to install legally on all the machines you own with the same Mac App Store account.

Eidorian
Jun 6, 2011, 04:23 PM
It must be awesome being that afraid of everything. I bet It's like a roller-coaster of adrenaline every time some guy on the street asks if you're happy with your cable provider.I only have over the air reception for television. That makes it an unwanted solicitation and annoyance to work myself out of.

I like cash and yes I do pay my taxes. First it was Microsoft stock owning astroturfer and now it is paranoid Mac using drug dealer? What is next? :rolleyes:

gkarris
Jun 6, 2011, 04:24 PM
Here's hoping that MS will price the Windows 8 Upgrade Download the same, $29.99 for all your PC's... :eek:

(*starts holding breath*)

(marc)
Jun 6, 2011, 04:25 PM
I'm thinking my parents with their flaky slow connection can probably live without the latest and greatest OS. As long as they're happy with their emailing and web browsing and facebooking on their rinky dink line, I'm not messing with them.

Maybe when they're ready to upgrade their cable, it will be time to upgrade to Lion.

Pah, I guess you'd bash Microsoft if they didn't sell hard copies of Windows.

Eidorian
Jun 6, 2011, 04:25 PM
Here's hoping that MS will price the Windows 8 Upgrade Download the same, $29.99 for all your PC's... :eek:

(*starts holding breath*)It was really damn cheap when you pre-ordered it for Windows 7 or got the family pack. NewEgg just sent a 10% off up to $50 loyalty promo code for all Windows operating systems as well.


Pah, I guess you'd bash Microsoft if they didn't sell hard copies of Windows.It was not that hard to just download the ISO from their servers or use the fancy bootable USB drive tool. If Apple can get a 4 GB recovery partition with Safari, Microsoft can have all the fun moving the current 200 MB recovery partition to 4 GB too.

G4DP
Jun 6, 2011, 04:26 PM
The Recovery partition is a joke, those things cause more trouble than anything on the Windows side of things.

I can see if you quickly want to re-install Mail or Safari. If you hard drive dies, you still buggered.

Cougarcat
Jun 6, 2011, 04:28 PM
Here are my 2 cents about OS X Lion's upgrade options.

As far as I know current developer previews are being seeded through the App Store, and they have managed to leak those out to the torrents in dmg format. Therefore I am guessing that whatever the download is, it will be possible to extract a dmg from it and do the usual USB stick dump or DVD burn.

Anyways it is useless to cry over update options if is impossible to update yet.

Yes, this is correct. You can "Show Package Contents" to get to the DMG.
However, Apple needs an easy way of restoring the installer to a USB stick or DVD from the installer itself. Hopefully they will do this by the time of release.


Great. But i want to be able to create a bootable usb drive. For sure, that built-in recover partition will use a lot of space on my small 64GB SDD. (MBA)

The recovery partition is only 800MB. I expect it'll have you redownload Lion to install it again.

swagi
Jun 6, 2011, 04:29 PM
Privacy doesn't exist there too.

On topic, I will avoid Lion as long as possible, it always takes some .x updates until Adobe CS, Cinema 4D, all my fonts etc... work hassle free. And then, well, I don't like the direction Apple is going. Some years ago I really enjoyed the platform and found it far superior to Windows XP back then. But now, I don't really know what is the better of two evils...

Unfortunately none of the productivity programs and games that I want to use are available under Linux.

Well, there you go. Steve finally got his will. For all the flock here is a famous Steve-o quote to remember:

"If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth -- and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago."
-- Fortune, Feb. 19, 1996

Fiveteen years later we can finally say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. The sheep are being milked while the educated move on.

Bye Apple. Has been a nice time with you. Next machine will dualboot Linux and Windows for sure. Sorry - but dear Apple apologists - your future is not mine. I actually like OWNING my software and not just OWNING A LICENSE.

It's been a great time. *sniff*

wikus
Jun 6, 2011, 04:32 PM
The Recovery partition is a joke, those things cause more trouble than anything on the Windows side of things.

I can see if you quickly want to re-install Mail or Safari. If you hard drive dies, you still buggered.

I dont want ANY type of recovery partition on my SSD drive bogging down space.

polaris20
Jun 6, 2011, 04:33 PM
How clicking download is any hard than keep putting DVD in and out a tower?

Uh, no. I'm talking about the corporate distribution of applications via the App Store, which isn't really possible. We're not having every person running a Mac using their personal credit card and account so they can upgrade to Lion, and then expense it. That's stupid. Every other company (Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft) allows me to group buy licenses, and/or the real box if need be. We're not requiring everyone to use their personal accounts for work purposes. That's not appropriate.

So you can lose your condescending attitude.

ericmooreart
Jun 6, 2011, 04:33 PM
Wow! Way to force you to use the App Store.

Looks like I won't be upgrading to Lion anytime soon.

Eidorian
Jun 6, 2011, 04:35 PM
Uh, no. I'm talking about the corporate distribution of applications via the App Store, which isn't really possible. We're not having every person running a Mac using their personal credit card and account so they can upgrade to Lion, and then expense it. That's stupid. Every other company (Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft) allows me to group buy licenses, and/or the real box if need be. We're not requiring everyone to use their personal accounts for work purposes. That's not appropriate.

So you can lose your condescending attitude.Imaging/deployment should stay more or less the same. Licensing on the other hand...

wikus
Jun 6, 2011, 04:35 PM
Uh, no. I'm talking about the corporate distribution of applications via the App Store, which isn't really possible. We're not having every person running a Mac using their personal credit card and account so they can upgrade to Lion, and then expense it. That's stupid. Every other company (Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft) allows me to group buy licenses, and/or the real box if need be. We're not requiring everyone to use their personal accounts for work purposes. That's not appropriate.

So you can lose your condescending attitude.

So true, I forgot about installing it in offices. What a nightmare this is going to be.

G4DP
Jun 6, 2011, 04:36 PM
So if the Recovery Partition is only 800mb it's pointless. I thought the point of a recovery partition was for you to be able to recover the systems original OS?

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 6, 2011, 04:38 PM
LOL@Feature Slide.

"Dragging"

ericmooreart
Jun 6, 2011, 04:44 PM
Heres a thought. Since all macs are going to have a sd card slots, Why not give an option to buy it that way? Upgrades can be downloaded straight to the card.

Packaging cost will drop dramatically

bigwig
Jun 6, 2011, 04:45 PM
If Lion is an App Store application, how are Lion updates going to work? In 10.6, the App Store app doesn't do automatic updates like the Software Update feature of System Preferences does. You have to manually launch App Store to check for updates. It's really annoying, I much prefer the automatic notification of updates System Preferences gives me.

mariov
Jun 6, 2011, 04:45 PM
Yes, this is correct. You can "Show Package Contents" to get to the DMG.
However, Apple needs an easy way of restoring the installer to a USB stick or DVD from the installer itself. Hopefully they will do this by the time of release.




The recovery partition is only 800MB. I expect it'll have you redownload Lion to install it again.

so no internet connection, no upgrade. Sad. Thinking again, i´ll sacrifice 4bg of my 64 to be able to reinstall os x whenever i want.

Not that i do that often on my mac. Oh wait... i never do it. I just wanna know that i can if i need to. :)

megsandbytes
Jun 6, 2011, 04:46 PM
can't go wrong with that price, that is beyond more than fair!

mariov
Jun 6, 2011, 04:46 PM
Heres a thought. Since all macs are going to have a sd card slots, Why not give an option to buy it that way? Upgrades can be downloaded straight to the card.

Packaging cost will drop dramatically

My 11.6 MBA does not have an sd slot. USB drive is everywhere.

moseleyite
Jun 6, 2011, 04:48 PM
Yeah, oddly though any other $30 app equates to £17.99 - I ran on assumption, I was wrong. Still...an odd way to work - good price in any case.

According to Google 30$ = £18.33 then you need to add VAT at 20% giving £21.99-ish

Edit: Sorry, mis-read your point about 'other apps'. Still, the price seems to be about right.

wikus
Jun 6, 2011, 04:48 PM
My 11.6 MBA does not have an sd slot. USB drive is everywhere.

You could use a card reader, but i agree.

OS X should be sold on a usb stick.

G4DP
Jun 6, 2011, 04:49 PM
Having read through the pages on the Apple Site about Lion, there is absolutely nothing to benefit desktop users. Sorry that's not quite true. Nothing for desktop users who still have the mental ability to use a mouse and a keyboard.

Are you too thick to use a mouse? Are your fingers too fat to type on a keyboard?

Then Mac OS Lion is for you. Welcome to the future of Mac.

harlem
Jun 6, 2011, 04:55 PM
Apple has become the company that forces everything down its users throat...they make good looking stuff but lets be honest here, last couple of years its been nothing but downhill for Mac users (not talking about iphones, ipads and other icrap)

Like mentioned in a previous post in some country's people need to have a certain amount of income before they can even own a credit card or visa card...now this doesn't mean these people are dead broke (so don't start with the "how did they get a mac in the first place ignorance") its just messed up politics and the less fortuned are again the ones left in the cold. Funny how i remember Jobs saying that "the mac is for everybody"

not only that, but what about people with low bandwith...or in some country's internet speed is really slow even if you have the fastest connection the provider has to offer, it would take ages if not simply impossible to download it due to timeouts.

about wwdc in general, huge disappointment just like the "back to the mac" and last years wwdc...not that i was expecting much to be honest. I won't be updating to Lion anytime soon, overly hyped OS if you ask me.

Take away all the fancy advertising and hype and all your left with is an overpriced good looking mediocre ordinary performing computer.

psingh01
Jun 6, 2011, 04:56 PM
They need to clarify how the install will work. If I can download the Lion installer from Mac App Store then burn it to a dvd or save to a hard drive for later use then ok. If it's bootable/mountable image then ok.

Like many I have my concerns about this. I like to clean install my system every now and again. Will I be forced to download 4GB every time? Will I first have to go through the whole install process with 10.6 + updates to get the Mac App Store just to be able to get to the point of downloading Lion again? Better question (maybe already answered?) will I have to PAY every time I download?

Not my problem, but what about people with no internet or limited internet? A lot of people only have 3g (I was one for several years). It's good enough for web browsing or email but downloading a 4GB OS? No.

bowler357
Jun 6, 2011, 04:58 PM
The DVD problem is really a non issue. The download from the App Store is a wrapper for a DMG file that you can burn to DVD/Bootable thumb drive.

mike31mets
Jun 6, 2011, 04:59 PM
some people here are truly not thinking about anyone but themselves here. there's a bunch of issues that arise from an appstore only upgrade.

1. what happens if i want to do a clean install? up until now you could do upgrades and clean installs. it sounds like the only way to do a clean install is to install OS 10.6 and then install OS 10.7 which is absolutely insane and time consuming.

2. what happens if you want to you're stuck without removable media and the need to upgrade multiple computers? 4gb adds up really quickly with some caps that ISPs set up. and not everyone has the fortune of fast internet access.

3. what happens in a business environment where you wish to upgrade multiple macs? does OS 10.7 now need to be authenticated via the appstore? that's absolutely ridiculous if that's the case. hate on microsoft for using product keys, but it's easier to deal with that then having to open an appstore account just to authenticate software.

4. what if the harddrive dies out? look at #1. this is stupid. a recovery partition is not useful at all in this case.

bash on microsoft all you want but at the very least they provide tools to run Windows 7 installations from DVDs and USB drives. this is rather disappointing. and will be a nightmare for business environments looking to do upgrades.

and if apple has an answer to all these concerns, they really blew it by not addressing them today. especially considering all the stuff they mentioned about OS 10.7 they had pretty much covered already.

polaris20
Jun 6, 2011, 05:01 PM
Apple really needs to adress the business world with this and come up with a solution that will work. The Mac App store is not currently set up to handle business accounts. So what is a business with 20-30 computers supposed to do for this? Plus there's the download it over and over problem. Do they seriously want us to download the entire OS for every computer in the company we upgrade. Plus theres the issue of clean installs. If they allow you to make a bootable DVD from it, then that will help, but I will be very surprised if they do that. From a sysadmin standpoint, this is a nightmare. They should at least offer the option for business customers to purchase physical media for an inflated price.

It's going to be interesting when it comes time to upgrade the 15 iMacs and 6 MBPs at the office. I really don't want to tie my Credit Card to other people's accounts and I don't think I'm allowed to tie my account to 21+ computers. I've been asking Apple for Corporate .me accounts for a while and recently for a single Corporate Apple ID account to purchase software. I just can't see how tying company owned software to an individual rather than a device is a good idea. People come and people go and managing Apple IDs and Credit Cards associated with them will be a nightmare for me.

I hope they get this right to help businesses manage their software. And maybe it's in the plan...till then I'm nervous. :o

Look! Two people that get it. This will be a problem for businesses running OS X.

Well, there you go. Steve finally got his will. For all the flock here is a famous Steve-o quote to remember:

"If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth -- and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago."
-- Fortune, Feb. 19, 1996

Fiveteen years later we can finally say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. The sheep are being milked while the educated move on.

Bye Apple. Has been a nice time with you. Next machine will dualboot Linux and Windows for sure. Sorry - but dear Apple apologists - your future is not mine. I actually like OWNING my software and not just OWNING A LICENSE.

It's been a great time. *sniff*

Name one app that you own the license to. *Hint* It's not anything from Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, etc.

finkmacunix
Jun 6, 2011, 05:06 PM
Wow… this is like that thread about the iPod… In 5 years, who will know the difference?

bowler357
Jun 6, 2011, 05:08 PM
The DVD problem is really a non issue. The download from the App Store is a wrapper for a DMG file that you can burn to DVD/Bootable thumb drive.

To clarify, you can do a format and install after booting from this imaged media.

The steps are outlined Here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1146267)

Perhaps Apple will include an easy utility in the final version.

winston1236
Jun 6, 2011, 05:08 PM
I'm not buying Snow Leopard to buy Lion, that doesn't even make logical sense!

Ashka
Jun 6, 2011, 05:09 PM
im sure if you have slow internet connections or data caps then you will be able to take it to an apple store and do the download over their wi-fi connection

4 Gig cap ~ No Apple store in NZ just retailers without WiFi options.
Panther > Tiger > Leopard > Snow Leopard > :(

iBunny
Jun 6, 2011, 05:10 PM
Alot of you people are forgetting that this is 2011 and physical media is dying. Apple is just helping us by pushing us off the cliff.

Now hopefully future Macs can be Optical Bay free too.

And those of you who are claiming no broadband access and downloads will be slow, well you are in the minority. Most people have fast internet access, even if its 3G tethered from their phone. Looks like you guys will just have to wait longer than us to download it. No worries on this end, but I have been all over the world in the last 10 years and no matter where I went, wether it be the US, Iraq, Japan (where I am currently) I have always had faster than dialup access.

Edit: And Im sure that once you Download this, you will be able to burn the image for mass distribution. They realize that some of us own like 5 mac's and we are not gonna have to download this thing 5 separate times.

mike31mets
Jun 6, 2011, 05:11 PM
Wow… this is like that thread about the iPod… In 5 years, who will know the difference?
the only way these concerns can even begin to get addressed is if they had a secondary storage unit where you could run OS installations from. until something like that happens, none of these concerns are going to be addressed.

iLucas
Jun 6, 2011, 05:12 PM
4 Gig cap ~ No Apple store in NZ just retailers without WiFi options.
Panther > Tiger > Leopard > Snow Leopard > :(

My exact situation. I live in the ONLY place around my area where there is NO broadband at all. My entire internet connection is my 4gb on my iPhone that i tether to my computers

MacAddict1978
Jun 6, 2011, 05:14 PM
What are the chances they'll let us get a free Snow Leopard update in order to update to Lion? I hadn't updated my MacBook to Snow and if Lion is only downloadable through the Mac App Store, I need Snow to get the App store.

I would say your chances of being rewarded for being a cheap ass are less then 0.

$60 still beats $129 for what upgrades were going for previously.

MacAddict1978
Jun 6, 2011, 05:17 PM
Lion only available through app store means goodbye to Mac for me. I think it's a stupid idea, because Apple doesn't even let me have an appstore account. Using a Mac was fun for 6 years, now it's time for something better. Goodbye everybody :)

Bon Voyage!

But before you go, why is it that you can't have an app store account? You're not 13?

anthorumor
Jun 6, 2011, 05:17 PM
If I had to reformat my computer because my hdd failed, not only do I have to reinstall snow leopard then download 4GB that is the OS, but since my computer came with snow leopard 6.2, I will have to download an additional 1GB of system updates to GET the Appstore, then do those additional steps.

I suspect for businesses and schools, they'll simply stay with whatever OS X they have since Apple hasnt released a realistic rollout for them.

Plus Apple ID for authorisation - I wouldnt want my data compromised ala Sony.

They're sure as hell making desktop computing obsolete. That's Steve's way. And I'll probably still get it anyway...

mike31mets
Jun 6, 2011, 05:18 PM
Alot of you people are forgetting that this is 2011 and physical media is dying. Apple is just helping us by pushing us off the cliff.

Now hopefully future Macs can be Optical Bay free too.

And those of you who are claiming no broadband access and downloads will be slow, well you are in the minority. Most people have fast internet access, even if its 3G tethered from their phone. Looks like you guys will just have to wait longer than us to download it. No worries on this end, but I have been all over the world in the last 10 years and no matter where I went, wether it be the US, Iraq, Japan (where I am currently) I have always had faster than dialup access.

Edit: And Im sure that once you Download this, you will be able to burn the image for mass distribution. They realize that some of us own like 5 mac's and we are not gonna have to download this thing 5 separate times.
physical media is dying? so i guess in the next 5 yrs people will have no need for flash drives?

so long as there is data out there, there will be a need for psychical storage. this is not even up for debate. it doesn't matter if it's blu-ray, usb flash drives or whatever the next generation storage devices are. people will need to put data on psychical media. this is particularly even more relevant when not every computer is networked (nor can it be guaranteed that it is networked).

MacAddict1978
Jun 6, 2011, 05:20 PM
ever heard of kids on a long car ride?

Yes, everyone has a bunch of 5 year olds in the back with laptops for long car trips who are dying without a blu ray player in the laptop.

Really!?!? MOST parents have discovered the joy of NOT having physical media. Less crap to carry around an lose! You are probably one of those people with a fanny pack on vacation filled with 10 gadets and 20 cables.

My god, really though, what did people do before car entertainment systems on long road trips? You know, those things that mount to the back of the head rests or drop down from the ceiling?

finkmacunix
Jun 6, 2011, 05:22 PM
I think that there will be an option to burn the restore partition…

MacAddict1978
Jun 6, 2011, 05:26 PM
I'm just curious as to how we are supposed to access the system tools like when booting from the OS install disk. Sounds like if you need a reinstall or something like that, you'll have to ask apple first. I'll have to make sure that I still have the control I want over it before I download. If not, SL it is.

Have you read ANYTHING that came out today, or any of the 70 posts prior to yours? Ask Apple? This isn't school. You don't need a hall pass.

I'm not even telling you the answer. It's everywhere. BETTER YET... read the Lion page on apple.com!

ecapdeville
Jun 6, 2011, 05:26 PM
Which was the last OSX made for professional users rather than just media consumers? Apple lost his spirit, now is just a pretty app and media store.

dfine1966
Jun 6, 2011, 05:29 PM
As seen on the OS X Lion features page on Apple's Lion site: It is in the Internet Restore and Utilities area. Here is the link:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html




Internet Restore and Utilities


Built into Lion

OS X Lion includes a built-in restore partition, allowing you to repair or reinstall OS X without the need for discs.

Browse the web with Safari

Recovery mode now includes the Safari web browser, so you can check your email or browse the Apple Support site.

Reinstall OS X

OS X can be reinstalled on your Mac from recovery mode.

JS77
Jun 6, 2011, 05:30 PM
I wrote a similar post when Lion was first Previewed, but I think it's worth repeating now...

Lion is a massive cop-out by Apple. It Should have been a revolution in much the same way 10.5 Leopard was coming from 10.4. But instead, we've got iOS gimmicks tacked onto 10.6. "Fullscreen" Apps? Give me a break.

Furthermore, this whole "Download Lion from the Mac App Store" is just a way to get anyone who is NOT using the App Store to start using it. I really hope Apple prove me wrong and offer a DVD option, but for now, Apple have stopped innovating and focused on getting as many iTunes/AppStore/iBooks/Newstand accounts as possible.

/rant

finkmacunix
Jun 6, 2011, 05:33 PM
How can people say that Lion is a service pack? What is a service pack, anyway?

+1 for the New look of iCal, Address Book

benthewraith
Jun 6, 2011, 05:34 PM
FAIL if you've had a disk failure and have inserted a new hard drive.

Apple doesn't want you upgrading your hard drive. You have to remove the whole front case to replace the hard drive in the iMac. And now they're locking that down even further and preventing you from replacing it at all without voiding your warranty.

HuckleNDenali
Jun 6, 2011, 05:37 PM
Anyone know where I could get my hands on one of those cool galaxy wallpapers? for 1280 x 800?

twoodcc
Jun 6, 2011, 05:38 PM
Hopefully this comes out very soon. Looking forward to it

dukebound85
Jun 6, 2011, 05:40 PM
Apple doesn't want you upgrading your hard drive. You have to remove the whole front case to replace the hard drive in the iMac. And now they're locking that down even further and preventing you from replacing it at all without voiding your warranty.

and now explain why apple has made hdds user replaceable in their laptops again?

finkmacunix
Jun 6, 2011, 05:41 PM
Hopefully this comes out very soon. Looking forward to it

Me too…
In the meantime, I have a game release that I am looking forward to… It's in four days… I'm not going to name it… (no, it's not Duke Forever)…

And, I am occupied with my Pokémon games…

mike31mets
Jun 6, 2011, 05:43 PM
Hopefully this comes out very soon. Looking forward to it
comes out next month so it'll be pretty soon indeed.

iMJustAGuy
Jun 6, 2011, 05:44 PM
I'm done.... They are making macs into toys, and I want a real computer. I've been faithfully buying Macs for 14 years solid. This direction will blow up in their face. Steve Jobs F'ed up in the 80's, and he is doing it again.

http://stickyysweets.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/bye-bye-male-smiley-smiley-emoticon-000155-large.gif?w=198&h=178

marlonux
Jun 6, 2011, 05:44 PM
I guess I don't understand one thing: If someone is running an older version of OS X that does not support the app store, how are they supposed to upgrade?

And what about troubleshooting, disk repair, etc that normally requires booting from external media?

:) OS X Lion only works if you have Intel core 2 Duo, i3, i5 or i7. Obviusly you have a old Mac. You need to upgrade your Mac instead of OS X :D

Smacky
Jun 6, 2011, 05:46 PM
What a snoozefest
Not very revolutionary at all

ZenErik
Jun 6, 2011, 05:52 PM
No DVD? Guess I will wait for the torrent then.

mike31mets
Jun 6, 2011, 05:52 PM
:) OS X Lion only works if you have Intel core 2 Duo, i3, i5 or i7. Obviusly you have a old Mac. You need to upgrade your Mac instead of OS X :D

There are definitely Intel Macs running OS 10.5 that can support OS 10.7..........provided the user gets a copy of OS 10.6 to upgrade to first and then downloads 10.6.6 so that they can download OS 10.7

InuNacho
Jun 6, 2011, 05:58 PM
But nothing about Lion really makes me want to upgrade, especially as I will have to spend a few hundred buying Intel versions of Office and Adobe CS.

Same here, I still use the original CS and Office X and both get the job done quite effectively.

AnonMac50
Jun 6, 2011, 05:59 PM
im sure if you have slow internet connections or data caps then you will be able to take it to an apple store and do the download over their wi-fi connection

What if you live in an area without Apple Stores and 4 Mbps per years costs way more than a new laptop?

MattInOz
Jun 6, 2011, 06:08 PM
I can think of a dozen reasons but how about flooding your downlink and not being able do to a coordinated upgrade on 30 machines in one go? Duh!

Why wouldn't the install work via Remote Desktop like any other installer?
$99 investment to manage even 10 computers is more than worth while.