Considering a Graphic Design Major

[Demon Hunter]

Hi all. :)

I'm hoping my fellow MR members can provide some insight about graphics design careers. It's beginning to become important that I know my major. I'm currently a freshman at the University of Minnesota, where I'm "undeclared." If I want to do this, I have to do it now, since Graphics Design is all or nothing for 4 years. So here is what's influencing my decision, at this point:

The college with graphic design only admits in the Fall, and the deadline for applying is already over. I've contacted the college to see if I can still apply, but I haven't heard from them yet. My parents would be okay if I had to stay another year.

Minneapolis is 2nd in the nation for graphics designers, with a lot of excellent firms and studios, advertising etc. I would have an internship and probably not have much trouble finding a decent job after school.

I've always wanted to be a writer, a profession of uncertainty to say the least. I also love English, which is why I was originally considering an English major with a minor in Psychology. I have thought about teaching or business, but nothing in specific. English is a very versatile major. If I chose English, I would still probably be in school for another 4 years, maybe more if I went to grad school.

I've always enjoyed and been proficient at both, with my writer goal being more distant and fulfilling, than say a near-future profession such as graphic design. Working with Photoshop on my Mac, making websites and graphics, these have always been "fun" -- but I wouldn't consider them the same type of goal as being a writer, if that makes any sense... it's more of a dream.

If I did Graphic Design, I would still probably pursue being a writer. However, I don't know how much time I would have for that, or how much being an English major would help my writing...

Another option would be Psychology, as I'm very personally interested in it and would like to conduct research through the university about depression. I've also started a depression-awareness group on campus. With Graphics Design, this would probably be hard to do as a minor. I hear the workload is crazy.

I haven't thought much about my professional/financial setting. I'm not very fond of cubicles (who is?) but if I have a Mac and some windows (pun not intended) I would be OK. In contrast, staying on campus seems like it would be fun, and very low paying.

Money isn't really a big thing (or else being a writer would suck), but I do tend to have expensive tastes... damn you Apple.

So, that's my dilemma. I love Macs, I love Photoshop, I've made lots of websites (with huge emphasis on design and graphics, as opposed to code and function like PHP or something), but I also have these other dreams and interests.

My parents are encouraging either way but they seem to favor the certainty of a design major...

One question I have is, how much do people usually like their majors? Do I have to be a total design freak for this major? Would it be a mistake if I wasn't?

Any thoughts, suggestions, experience is greatly appreciated... :)

THANKS!

[7on]

As a Graphic Design major (aka Visual Communications) I know fro experience that you have to really like art. Usually you have to really want to know that it's what you want to do. If you want to be a writer/physiologist then that's probably more for you. Just to give you a brief example at what I do, as a Sophomore we get a project to do and by next class (2 days) we have to have 100 thumbnails done of the project (though this current one I have she cut back on the thumbnail requirement because of the project's size and detail). There's a lot to do with fonts and lots of traditional methods (keeping a sketchbook, marker comps, etc) too. I'm just saying don't get into because you like photoshop and web-design. Honestly I've spent more time in Illustrator or Indesign. I say get into graphic design if you can enjoy churning out 100 or so logo designs - because most people I know eventually drop the major. At my university just between freshman - sophomore year, we've had about half the students drop the major and the Professor said it'll likely be cut in half again by the time of graduation. It's grueling, but I know I love it.

I wouldn't say that knowing how to draw/paint traditionally is required - but it definitely make your working easier.

But by the sounds of your post you have already made your choice...

(ps. most viscom majors I know like Windows over Macintosh)

[Demon Hunter]

Wow, interesting...

I do have some drawing experience, but usually with my projects I spend a lot of time refining a few images... my eyes popped when you said 100 logo designs in a few days. :eek:

Thanks, that's really helpful!

[michaelrjohnson]

Perhaps in the future I'll draft a more thourough response, however...

I am a Junior in the Design program at UW-Stevens Point (Art Major with Graphic Design Emphasis) and I just thought I'd suggest that you modify your post and not claim that the U of M is "Number two in graphics [sic] designers."

You've got a lot of balls to make such a claim, since I doubt that you've looked at the Design program at UWSP, much less anywhere else in the nation. I don't usually have many adverse reactions to the things many people post here, but that's just a silly claim. You want us *current* designers to help you, not be pissed because you just discredited our own programs.

As I said, perhaps later I'll draft another response.

[ArcaneDevice]

If you have any doubts about taking graphic design then don't. It will suck up all your time both in study and work. It's been awhile since I was at university but as I have worked in the industry for 12 years I speak from experience.

While you may get to play around with PS on your course expect to do a lot of writing, theory and history etc. Be prepared to learn the excting world of font terminology and know your Helvetica from your Gill Sans, Linotype from Bitstream etc. etc. It sounds boring and it is at the time, but it's useful for when you have to churn out a multiple style sheets when you get in a job.

Unless you are supplied with equipment expect to spend money on old school tools like markers, paint and pen. Repro costs, artboard etc. etc.

Final creation is the smallest part of any project. Before that you have to churn out ideas and be prepared to sacrifice the ideas you love at the whim of someone else. Computers may be fun and an essential tool but most design study takes place before you even get to a mouse.

As the previous poster mentioned most of my work takes place in Illustrator and Indesign but before that I spend a lot of time on paper and looking through endless lists of fonts and stock photo. Real world graphic designers work in all applications and mediums not just Photoshop. If you have the luxury of being an amazing talent then you can stick to a speciality and people will come to you.

If Photoshop and Web design are the only things you want to specialize in then either go for one of those specific courses or expect a long winding road through general graphic design before you can choose to specialize in one particular area.

Either way when employed expect long overnight work hours and being the one to pick up the slack to meet a last minute deadline. Graphics guys are always the last link in the chain and as a result if anything is behind schedule you'll be the one who has to fix it.

Of course, sometimes you get to work on something pretty cool that's seen by thousands and be proud of the result. :rolleyes:

Good luck.

Aftethought: depending on where you work you may never even get to work on a final piece. You initial designs could end up being split between illustrators, photographers, web designers and layout artists to produce the finished piece. Makes your life easier but it's not as rewarding. Especially if they don't meet your expectations.

[jasonbuss]

graphics design... heh, i got a chuckle out of that.

internet etq aside, which really most people shouldnt take too seriously anyways right? hes just asking for help... besides, isnt the school we went to sposed to be the best? heh...

okay so you wanna be a graphic(s) designer? you know the programs, or well, some of them and your ready to take the long road to get the degree right? couple things you might wanna consider... these are that come to mind as of right now, but im sure more will touch on this...

be prepared once you leave school with your nicely framed degree and the admiration of your parents for actually completing something in your life, oh wait, we arnt talking about me...

graphic design at the entry level is a uber saturated market in terms of job prospects. you mentioned internships - investigate, but most are unpaid or less than field average. the entry level market is satuarated with those kids who tolled over late night hours on warezed and cracked out versions of the industry softs learning the program with no real direction on color theory, design and art related taught practices. now dont get me wrong, im not saying thats you, but a majority of those i interview are in the im a designer "mode" because they know the program a little and made a few websites.

all i can say is learn, but forget learning on a computer. start taking art history NOW. find a few artists of long ago and research them more than any hobby you have ever come across and loved... date a art major :-). get to know the staff at the local museum. engulf yourself with the theory, and practices of design and the priciples. behind it. subscribe to printmag and a few other design related pubs, to see what the other people like you in the world are doing.

internships... dont go the ad agency route just yet, i say internship at a service bureau, or local printer.. learn 4 and 6 color process, learn spots, duotones, different paper types and relationships the inks have with them. the differences between printed screen and press related materials. this will teach you the basic fundamentals and give a great starting ground for learning how your designed pieces turn out the way they do, and this will help you design better pieces.

a graphic design major will teach you the basic fundamentals (if its a good school) and give you a good starting ground, but be warned, its a constant learning status. you have to keep in the back of your mind, that you will never be able to stop learning, that you never want to stop learning.

fill out your portfolio with well rounded design pieces based on your projects from school, never fill it with all your school projects.

learn many mediums and formats for design and visual communication, be strong in some, capable in alot. learn the limitations of the programs to find workarounds to get the job done correctly, this includes using more than one program in the workflow.

learn.

for me, design has been a tough, but severly gratifying choice of profession, and i still consider my distance just starting...

muck luck, and remember to save often, and spellcheck everything!

jasonbuss

[Demon Hunter]

It looks like graphic design is probably not for me. I always thought things like color theory came natural to me, as I enjoy playing with color and finding the right combinations... but I don't know if I could ever study it. I'm also more interested in the digital aspect; I didn't realize how much of it is straight-up layout, art concepts, etc.

I've never really shyed away from art, and my parents think I'm really good at it, but I suppose parents will do that.

Even if I do accel at some aspects, it sounds like you need that extra drive, that extra desire to succeed, and I find more of that in myself for English than in Graphic Design.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses!


I am a Junior in the Design program at UW-Stevens Point (Art Major with Graphic Design Emphasis) and I just thought I'd suggest that you modify your post and not claim that the U of M is "Number two in graphics [sic] designers."

It may not have been clear from my post, but I said Minneapolis, not the University of Minnesota's design program. This is a ranking for job availability or some such statistic, I learned from my career class in high school.

[cgratti]

I am a senior majoring in Graphic Design. I rarely use Photoshop, the main programs used is Illustrator, followed by InDesign/Quark. You don't have to be a GREAT artist, but you do need some drawing skills. If you do choose to go the design route, be prepared to spend hours upon hours making word lists, thumbnail sketches, then revising those sketches 3 or 4 times until you get whats wanted. Not to mention you need to be 100% sure your design is not only practicle in the "real world" cost wise and do-ability, but politically correct as not to offend anyone. (I have seen some really bad designs that were missed that have offended people once they hit the market.)

Then study how printing is done so you know what your output must be to the printers, ect.ect...

It's not for everyone, but if you like to design stuff, like I do.. Its exactly what I want for a career.

[Muskie]

Hey man, I'm from the cities as well, South Minneapolis in fact. I am currently a freshman in UW-Stout's Graphic Design Major.

What everyone has said previous to me holds true here as well. I don't know if you have ever heard of Stout, but the GD program is very well known. Its lots of work, thumbnailing, brainstorming, working through ideas, 98% of which is not done on a computer. However, I suggest you stop by here before you make a decision, or even after you do. Just take a look at some of the student galleries, talk to some instructors, walk around the campus. Or if you want, I can tell you when the next senior show is, and you can come take a gander at all the fancy things that the seniors have come up with. Seeing the senior projects is really cool, going to the show last semester really helped to solidify my interest and desire to be here.

If you've got some free time, just drive over here. It's only 60-70 minutes from Minneapolis, and the campus isn't huge so taking a tour shouldn't be a huge problem.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose!

[Cursor]

I'm currently an Art Director in an ad agency, and have been working for close to 10 years now. You should be a "total design freak" if you are serious about this. You are going to be doing this or a related job for a long, long time, so you should love it. Psychology and writing would help A LOT in this field, as you will need to sometimes help out with coming up with headlines or concepts, adn you will need to know enough Psych to sell your concepts to corporate-type people who, a lot of the time, won't be totally sold on your work at first sight. Another thing I want to re-iterate from an earlier post is that you should have a general interest in the fundamentals of art, typography, and layout design. All the computer is, is a tool to help you creat good design. A computer is not the magic wand that creates the ads, it is you using your skills and tools. That being said, if you truly love Design, go for it. But whatever you do, make sure you don't have any doubts about the major you go with.

[MacHarne]

I am not a graphics design major, actually mechanical engineering, however, I still have some advice as far as choosing a major goes.

It's good to hear from a freshman with aspirations, or at least one who asks questions. Many students I've mentored in the past were simply apathetic to the future; the ambitious ones were noticed and got somewhere.

Clearly, you have divided interests: writing and design. And that's fabulous. The more versatile you are, as far as your education goes, the more valuable of an employee you will become. In engineering, there is a severe lack of "engineers" who can communicate making our own designing processes incredibly difficult. The few who stick out, expand beyond their math & science classes, and get involved in groups across campus are the ones who excel (assuming their grades are good as well :) ).

If you're interested in both writing and graphic design, then pursue both. If it is possible, try to double major. That may sound intimidating, and if that is too much of a workload, then shoot for one major and a minor. Any and all education counts and will be evaluated when you're being interviewed for employment. Above all else, remember that your classes are not the only learning experiences you can glean from university. Clubs and positions around campus are also teeming with bright minds who want to interact outside of the classroom environment; there are others on your campus with your same interests who would be glad to help you out with classes, share ideas for side projects, and whatnot. I can't emphasize enough the importance of getting involved around campus.

Good luck with everything!

[beatle888]

you'd better love it. you better try and be the best otherwise you wont make much. designers dont make much...only the creative directors hit six figures. you can always start your own business but that takes more than just an obsession for art/communication.

go for it but bite hard.

[Blue Velvet]

Either way when employed expect long overnight work hours and being the one to pick up the slack to meet a last minute deadline. Graphics guys are always the last link in the chain and as a result if anything is behind schedule you'll be the one who has to fix it.

Apart from all the other valuable advice in this thread, this comment can not be emphasised enough.

You have to be always able to go the last extra mile to hit that deadline. When the presses are waiting on your job, it's your neck on the line...

If you are precious about your work, forget it.
Hours or days of work can be swept aside on a clients' whim.

Oh, and of course... everybody's a designer. :rolleyes:
Everybody thinks they have a highly refined aesthetic sense and the ones with the biggest mouths are the ones who want you to lay it out in Arial.

[Mav451]

Yup, I know a friend who had an awesome design for a certain celebrity's website...well guess what?

He trashed it. Completely. He, instead wanted something bubbly, ugly, and completely against the Internet norms. Because he was the client, my friend had to listen and ended up making an ugly website. When it was done, the client then proceeded to blame my friend.

Some celebrities...ugh, are TOTAL nutcases. Some are just too cocky too. The "everyone's a designer comment" has so much truth in it.

[Balin64]

Trust me: the posts above are dead–on. Yet, in this town, it is who you know, not how creative you are. There are many opportunities for work in the twin cities... you just have to wait for your turn. Until then, think of the world.

-Cheers

[HiRez]

You might look into something more in the film and video realm, animation or motion graphics. I've found that side of the design world to be a bit less rigid that the "traditional" (print, advertising) one. Core design sensibilities are still required, but I just feel there are more options on that side, and frankly, less tedium. I distinguish that from patience, which animators need in buckets. That's just my perspective, but I've done both magazine layout and 2D and 3D animation, and I find doing animated graphics both more challenging and more interesting.

I wouldn't write off pursuing that English degree, though (sorry about the bad pun). As you said, it's versatile. Many jobs require an English degree, and no matter what job you're applying for, it never hurts. Graphics are often intimately connected with advertising, writing, and education disciplines, all of which require strong English skills.

I'm impressed that you are thinking so clearly about it at this stage in your life, I wish I had been taking a closer look at my own future when I was your age. You shouldn't expect to know your exact path in life, but trying to focus your efforts where you can will pay off for you. Good luck.

[jasonbuss]

Oh, and of course... everybody's a designer. :rolleyes:
Everybody thinks they have a highly refined aesthetic sense and the ones with the biggest mouths are the ones who want you to lay it out in Arial.

not to dig up old posts, but this gave me a chuckle on the second monday of my work week. thanks.

jasonbuss

[jefhatfield]

graphics design... heh, i got a chuckle out of that.

internet etq aside, which really most people shouldnt take too seriously anyways right? hes just asking for help... besides, isnt the school we went to sposed to be the best? heh...

okay so you wanna be a graphic(s) designer? you know the programs, or well, some of them and your ready to take the long road to get the degree right? couple things you might wanna consider... these are that come to mind as of right now, but im sure more will touch on this...

be prepared once you leave school with your nicely framed degree and the admiration of your parents for actually completing something in your life, oh wait, we arnt talking about me...

graphic design at the entry level is a uber saturated market in terms of job prospects. you mentioned internships - investigate, but most are unpaid or less than field average. the entry level market is satuarated with those kids who tolled over late night hours on warezed and cracked out versions of the industry softs learning the program with no real direction on color theory, design and art related taught practices. now dont get me wrong, im not saying thats you, but a majority of those i interview are in the im a designer "mode" because they know the program a little and made a few websites.

all i can say is learn, but forget learning on a computer. start taking art history NOW. find a few artists of long ago and research them more than any hobby you have ever come across and loved... date a art major :-). get to know the staff at the local museum. engulf yourself with the theory, and practices of design and the priciples. behind it. subscribe to printmag and a few other design related pubs, to see what the other people like you in the world are doing.

internships... dont go the ad agency route just yet, i say internship at a service bureau, or local printer.. learn 4 and 6 color process, learn spots, duotones, different paper types and relationships the inks have with them. the differences between printed screen and press related materials. this will teach you the basic fundamentals and give a great starting ground for learning how your designed pieces turn out the way they do, and this will help you design better pieces.

a graphic design major will teach you the basic fundamentals (if its a good school) and give you a good starting ground, but be warned, its a constant learning status. you have to keep in the back of your mind, that you will never be able to stop learning, that you never want to stop learning.

fill out your portfolio with well rounded design pieces based on your projects from school, never fill it with all your school projects.

learn many mediums and formats for design and visual communication, be strong in some, capable in alot. learn the limitations of the programs to find workarounds to get the job done correctly, this includes using more than one program in the workflow.

learn.

for me, design has been a tough, but severly gratifying choice of profession, and i still consider my distance just starting...

muck luck, and remember to save often, and spellcheck everything!

jasonbuss

my wife has been in the field for most of the past 25 years and what you say really rings true

anybody can learn to "drive" the software, but true artists who are graphic designers are rare and truly sought after in the real world...they are artists first and foremost

[FrankieTDouglas]

Well, your interests sound a lot like my journey through college. I started out in college considering a degree in graphic design. I enjoyed working with computers, and since I was unsure what I wanted to do, I picked that at orientation. But, when I found out graphic design wasn't just web related stuff but posters and everything else, I passed on it. I was already learning web designing and coding and etc. That had sparked an interest.

Soo... I fell back on what I have done since I was four. I decided to pursue a degree in English. Thing is, the English degree was for people who enjoyed studying and analyzing literature, but not necessarily actually WRITING, and writing creatively at that. I can only sit back and ponder what that verb or this noun was intended for before I want to just write myself. Not that it motivates me to write. Bored is probably the better description. I like to read, but I don't consider it a group activity.

Soo... I found my way into psychology. Academically, I love it. Professionally, I don't want to be a psychologist. In May I'll have my BA in it, but I view it as strictly an education to apply in other fields.

Thing is, art and writing are subjective fields. If you want a degree in it, I can see the positives in regards to learning the technical issues better. I can see the positives in having a critique panel tell their opinion of your work. But don't go to school to learn creativity. You either have it or you don't. 100 years of school is not going to teach you how to approach a short story. It might teach you how to put your sentences together, but the layout, dialogue, and progression of characters has to be inside of you.

Currently, I'm employed as a freelance web designer. Plus, I freelance in commercials. I have no formal degree in either. On the side, I'm also a writer for my own personal enjoyment, but did have a span of a few years where I wrote weekly short stories that had a readership in the thousands. Educationally, I have one class in web design, one class in Flash, and one class in creative writing. These classes were very good for fine-tuning the technical aspects of each category. Pick and choose electives to compliment your general interests. You don't have to major in them to still be able to do them.

I'd suggest an objective degree. You'll round out your education best in those fields, then be able to apply all of that towards your creative outlets and create avenues for yourself.

[krossfyter]

its a damn big world in art theory, aesthetics, art history etc.

i love it.



classical, modern, post modern, re-romanticism? lol

[revenuee]

You know

Reading all these responses makes me realize that i would of LOVED being a graphic design major

right now i'm a Film Studies major (It's a B.A. so it's all history and theory, and social implications of, not production) and i minor in art history

i'm planning on going for a B.F.A in photography after i'm done here


but it looks like i would of been REALLY happy in a design major

[CrackedButter]

There are a few things you also have to know aside from the other comments.

Be prepared to not be creative, it is mundane work. At the end of the day, you do as the client wants. You might think your idea is better but they are the ones paying the money. You give them what you want. It isn't always flashy graphics.

Once in the industry you wouldn't commission a peice right away anyway. You'd be doing low end touch up stuff. A good company won't let you touch a client, they have to be sure you can use the programs they use. Over a period of time will they trust you and only then.

A good portfolio gets you through the door nothing more.

Learn about print making, mess that up and it doesn't matter how good you are. Those are expensive mistakes. Page layout is the most important part because once something is printing thats it. Its printed, its a costly mistake.

[krossfyter]

graphic designers with grounded rendering skills are a rare breed. if you are one then you are at the top of the totem pole in the graphic design world.


it all starts with drawing.... though it aint the end all be all.

[iGav]

You might look into something more in the film and video realm, animation or motion graphics. I've found that side of the design world to be a bit less rigid that the "traditional" (print, advertising) one.

I'd agree with that... but I'd also add interaction design onto that list as well.

It's interesting reading some of the posts above. Some of them make design sound reeeaaaallllllllllllllllly banal... christ if I'd heard advice like that before I started Design at College I'd have had second thoughts as well! :eek: :p

[5300cs]

Oh, and of course... everybody's a designer. :rolleyes:
Everybody thinks they have a highly refined aesthetic sense and the ones with the biggest mouths are the ones who want you to lay it out in Arial.

Arial's not that bad. It could be worse: how about being asked to use MS Comic Sans? Being asked to use that typeface or being asked to design something in Word are 2 key warning signs...

Graphic design is a lot of fun, but in my experience it was VERY stressful, especially when the deadline approaches. Expect to spend a lot of time in the computer lab(s) and in critiques! 'Why did you do that?' 'Why did you choose that color?' 'How about moving this here?' If you can't listen to that for more than 20 minutes without going cRaZy then GD might not be for you.

Good luck in what you decide! :)

[Blue Velvet]

Arial's not that bad.

Oh, yes it is...

The scourge of Arial (http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html) :)

[besler3035]

I'm a freshman at college as well, and I'm considering going into graphic design, even though my school doesn't really have a program for it. They do, however, offer a Web Page Design certificate program, which I might pursue. I, like the original poster, am also very into writing, and serve as the sports editor at my school's newspaper. So right now I'm thinking of pursuing that certificate, and then minoring in journalism (not offered as a major).

You can certainly do both, you just have to know how to.

[FlamDrag]

Do what you love. If it's Graphic Design, it's Graphic Design. If it's writing.. WRITE!

Don't underestimate the power of passion for your work in making it. You don't really want to get into the wrong business for too long. You might lose the passion for what you really love. I tried being an engineer because - well, I could make the grades and Engineers can rake in the dough - but I hated it for the two years in in the Engineering program. So I switched to VisCom my 3rd year in College and have loved every minute of my life since. I'll be a better happier, and more successful designer than I ever would have been as an engineer.


Sure, it might be difficult to make it as a writer, but if that's what you love and that's your talent DO IT.

I've run into too many designers who hate it. They're miserable people. It's an easy profession to be miserable in.

[aricher]

There is always a need for copywriters with great design sensibilities. Maybe you could blend your interests. Many copywriters I work with can also draw some bada$$ storyboards - better than my own sometimes. Those are the kind of CWs that are always in high demand in agency circles.

[7on]

It's always fun when a client hands you a 3.5" Floppy diskette with a MS Pub file on it and says, "I need 200 of these by tomorrow."

Fun times.

[ry4n]

don't listen to everyone elses advice.. do what YOU want..

i'm a graphic communications major and i love it.. i have an art (read painting/drawing) background but you don't need that.. all i do is rough sketches.. illustrator makes you look and feel like a pro, adn the creativity in your head is jsut as important of how you can put in on paper with your bare hands..

get into it and do an internship.. don't listen to these people say how hard it is or that you don't get paid.. i'm doing an internship this semester (writing this from work as a matter of fact).. i've got my own desk, a cube with a window, and a hell of a paycheck.. and i'm only a sophmore, and i'm learning more than i've ever learned in school.. i love it..

go out and get into it and then find an internship, and then you'll see what you think about it..

shoot away with the questions, i'll let ya know anything else i know/feel..

[CrackedButter]

don't listen to everyone elses advice.. do what YOU want..

i'm a graphic communications major and i love it.. i have an art (read painting/drawing) background but you don't need that.. all i do is rough sketches.. illustrator makes you look and feel like a pro, adn the creativity in your head is jsut as important of how you can put in on paper with your bare hands..

get into it and do an internship.. don't listen to these people say how hard it is or that you don't get paid.. i'm doing an internship this semester (writing this from work as a matter of fact).. i've got my own desk, a cube with a window, and a hell of a paycheck.. and i'm only a sophmore, and i'm learning more than i've ever learned in school.. i love it..

go out and get into it and then find an internship, and then you'll see what you think about it..

shoot away with the questions, i'll let ya know anything else i know/feel..

You are just lucky, don't assume that what everyone else says is untrue. After all, you have only just started.

Btw, it shows how much you know when you say you don't need an art background. All that says is that YOU don't need it in you current job.

If you have a good job then fine, good luck with that, but don't make it smell like a bed a roses when it doesn't generally, not for everyone. You are an exception, not the rule.

[decksnap]

Oh, and of course... everybody's a designer. :rolleyes:
Everybody thinks they have a highly refined aesthetic sense and the ones with the biggest mouths are the ones who want you to lay it out in Arial.

Hey Blue Velvet- Make the logo bigger! ;)

So true... everybody thinks your job is really easy, and aren't shy about offering really horrible input- most notably in my case the AEs and of course the client!

As far as the college part of it- be prepared to shoulder a much larger workload than those around you with different majors. Their classes may be an hour apiece- yours will probably be three and a half. Their daily homework may take three hours- yours will probably take six. If you get into it and find that you aren't having to put that kind of work in- just know there are thousands more out there that are and are getting ahead of you in line. The redeeming factor (at least for me) is that if you love it, there is extreme satisfaction gained from putting all of that work in.

You really have to know you're into it before you go for it.

[Artful Dodger]

ry4n
don't listen to everyone elses advice.. do what YOU want..

i'm a graphic communications major and i love it.. i have an art (read painting/drawing) background but you don't need that.. all i do is rough sketches.. illustrator makes you look and feel like a pro, adn the creativity in your head is jsut as important of how you can put in on paper with your bare hands..

Wow that's a great concept :rolleyes: I wish my professor would have saved me some money with the don't need it statement.
Just wait untill that "one" important client wants something extra and you may not have an understanding as to a style say...Hopper that they want to portray and with lack of care or "background" you give him Ashcan type art thinking it's close, that illustrator made you look and feel like a pro.
If you can draw with your hands just think how much better your work in illustrator could be. Without it some drawings would be crap no matter what and that cube will always be a cube.
Last...your employers that are at the top of the game are well educated and have that understanding of "background" or the type of medium that they are working with and will see lack there of....

[Blue Velvet]

Hey Blue Velvet- Make the logo bigger! ;)

*Sigh* :D

It's true about the easy part and many people think it's a lot of fun, too...
After all, it's just painting pretty pictures, isn't it?

[willnight]

here are some words of wisdom to your thoughts:

...Graphics Design is all or nothing for 4 years...

if you think this way, happiness comes harder. allow yourself options always: look for grays and not see things "all or nothing". there are always choices.

...the deadline for applying is already over...stay another year.

as you are (i'm presuming) still younger, take the extra year as an opportunity to explore and enjoy your college years. there are *a lot* out there, academic as well as life itself.

i went for 5 years because i didn't know graphic design existed. i started off with liberal arts and science. the classes i had to take that first year weren't "wasted" (maybe with the exception of calculus, which i can say at this point in my life, is useless to me). i spent a semester learning design in england. it was refreshing to see how people think outside of the u.s.

i too was inspired to pursue "doing something artsy with the computer" when i first saw an image in a mailer sent to my high school by a little college in illinois. i knew i wanted to make things like that. since i didn't know any better, i nearly pursued computer science instead of graphic design.

Minneapolis is 2nd in the nation for graphics designers

always look to the best and be with the best. exploit this and use it to your advantage.

with a lot of excellent firms and studios, advertising etc...probably not have much trouble finding a decent job...

this is good, but also depends: realize that if you are *not* good at graphic design (or any profession for that matter), they won't want you. the market is so saturated with self-proclaimed untrained designer that employer can shake a tree and get a couple of dozens. unfortunately only the weak fruits fall first.

I've always wanted to be a writer

this is the most important thing you've said. do whatever you can to make this real. you will have bad day where you will doubt this feeling, but those days will pass. practice and do it. live it, breathe it, eat it, drink it. let the passion for it come through. great things will happen for you when you are happy at fulfilling this desire.

I've always enjoyed and been proficient at both...making websites and graphics, these have always been "fun" -- but I wouldn't consider them the same type of goal as being a writer...

this is the second most important thing that you know about yourself. you can always write as a career and do design as a hobby. the key word is hobby. to be a professional graphic/web designer requires focused dedication. unless if you happen to be multi-talented, you may do both as professions. more power to ya!

copywriting and design do go hand-in-hand, but *usually* are fulfilled by two different parties in a design office. it is simply not physically and creatively feasible to perform both tasks simultaneously and meet deadlines.

a word of warning: when you write (as when you paint), you do it to fulfill *your own* desires. whereas effective (emphasis on "effective") graphic design, your product must be fulfilled for others. remember this: graphic design is a child of art and business. so know which is your temperament: for myself or for others.

If I did Graphic Design, I would still probably pursue being a writer. However, I don't know how much time I would have for that, or how much being an English major would help my writing...

it sounds like your want to make the right decision and you are being cautious. these are good quality to have.

let me stress this: you are still younger (notice i'm not saying "young")... just *do*. take design classes. take english. take writing. dip and dab in everything you have time to do. this is the time to explore. college is also a great opportunity to say "nah, this is not for me" and move on to something else. you are at the stage in your life where you are your own compromise, and don't have to make big sacrifices. your decisions effect, for the most part, yourself and not anyone else (say like a spouse or your child(ren)).

being cautious helps you to progress safely. being over-cautious hinders and gives rise to doubt.

Another option would be Psychology, as I'm very personally interested in it and would like to conduct research through the university about depression. I've also started a depression-awareness group on campus. With Graphics Design, this would probably be hard to do as a minor. I hear the workload is crazy.

again, g.d. requires focused dedication. if psychology and design are both "minor" interested, i would not recommend taking both.

my wife has high career satisfaction as a child psychologist. she feel good at what she does and knowing that she makes a difference in another , at least one, person's life for the better.

kudos to you in wanting to help others. you can always volunteer this part of your desire and time.

also graphic design has a lot to do with psychology as it appeals to your audience's subliminal thoughts and desires. understanding people's thoughts and emotions make your design even stronger and more appealing.

...I'm not very fond of cubicles (who is?) but if I have a Mac and some windows (pun not intended) I would be OK...

it sounds like you can be just happy with very little; that is good. after working with dynamic and open-minded small design offices, i have, alas! ironically found myself in a cubicle now. the environment here is ... wing-strapping... for me. as a designer, my mind is always active and this place has few things that really test my design limits.

this was a hard choice i had to make (referencing back to compromising and sacrificing that i mentioned earlier): i work here so that i can be a safety net for my family: insurance, job stability, etc. i am lucky though: i am still geting paid well for doing graphic design.

it is really up to you and your choices that will put you where you want to be. if you don't like cubicles, don't work for a place that would put you in one! find a place with a window and a mac. most smaller designer offices will fulfill this part as a prerequisite to enhance their creativity.

Money isn't really a big thing (or else being a writer would suck)...

this is another important thing for you. and this will lead up to my conclusion...

So, that's my dilemma...

it is a dilemma. it also doesn't have to be. i went through the same feelings. the difference is, you have the internet and web sites like this to solicit thoughts from all walks of life.

think about the experience that they shared. think about what you really want. where do the two meet? have they help answered your own question?

i think you like writing a lot. it's natural. i would pursue that as a "major" and learn all you can to become a good writer. on days when you feel saturated with writing, jump on your mac and design. visit design how-to sites; join a design forum, or better yet a club (aiga.org is the graphic designer's "club") and go to functions. immerse yourself and make friends with designers. here's and idea: write a book on graphic design as this well-known writer/designer did (http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm?Alias=philip_meggs) and his book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471291986/104-9477540-8319909)

when you feel a bit too selfish in all your creative endeavors, reach out and share and teach others. art and doing art helps people (especially kids) to cheer up. it allows them to express their feelings. you can tie this in to your counseling group at school. my wife started out as an art major. then she saw the connection with art and how it helps children express themselves in very basic language. then this progressed to her being interested in the behavior and psychology of children.

life, like art, is about patterns and repetition. it's like the proverbial tapestry. there is a connection to everything if you learn where to look and what to look for. and the best way to learn this is to expose yourself and explore everything!

My parents are encouraging either way but they seem to favor the certainty of a design major...Do I have to be a total design freak for this major? Would it be a mistake if I wasn't

they, like most parents, want you to go into life with some cash in you pocket. it helps. becoming a graphic designer can fulfill that, no doubt. it helps if you were a design freak (whatever that means :rolleyes: ). i find that when i'm exposed to something and begin to know more about it, i helps to decide whether i like it or not. (i've recently gotten into dinosaurs; they are so absolutely amazing to me!).

having money doesn't necessarily mean one is rich. happiness makes us rich. when we're happy, good things happen. when we're happy, we can in turn reach out and share the happiness with others. *that* is having a rich life.

in regards to "mistake": we all are prone to making mistakes. only a fool thinks he never makes them. college also a good time for you to make mistake if you did. the pressure is not as great compared to making a mistake when you get out and "join the world." see mistakes as a learning tool, you know. just say "oh, crappola" and move on. don't dwelve on them.

oh my! i could have written a book already! well, i don't feel awkward for writing so much. you *did* ask.

i would be curious to know how you will progress... anyway, have fun!

[iGav]

Btw, it shows how much you know when you say you don't need an art background.

But you don't need an art background.

[decksnap]

But you don't need an art background.

hmmm... OK. Let's just say it's highly recommended.

[ry4n]

hmmm... OK. Let's just say it's highly recommended.

again.. i'll stand by what i said.. art and creativity are not the same thing.. you dont need an art background its that simple.. but creativity you do need..

you can tell me i'm wrong all day long, that won't bother me a bit.. i understnad what i need, and what i have and where it's gotten me..

the bottom line is do what you want like i said earlier.. none of these people know you, i dont know you, you know you.. do what you want.. and what you enjoy..

[willnight]

don't listen to everyone elses advice.. do what YOU want..

the bottom line is do what you want like i said earlier.. none of these people know you, i dont know you, you know you.. do what you want.. and what you enjoy..

it's a bit ironic in your quotes: it's as if you want the original poster to make his own mind, but at the same time, you are so aggressive in imposing your opinion. it sounds like you are trying to prove something...

you've made your point. you're right. you don't need anything to be a graphic designer, not even a mac. i think you're lucky to have found what works for you and that you're cool with it. i hope you continue to feel fulfilled.

i'd like to stress this though: if the original poster didn't give a damn what everyone else thought, he would have not even posted his question. i think that's what it means when someone solicits thoughts on a public forum: they do care what others think.

in *my humble opinion* (and this opinion is for the original poster), after having been a graphic designer for 12+ years, working for quite a few large city design firms, both as web/graphic designer and art director, and having acquired a few awards, i would have to agree with poster decksnap that an art background is highly recommended.

if i were consdering to hire between 2 candidates of equal caliber but one has an art background, i would not even hesitate to select the one with the more well-rounded resume: the one with the art background... and film, and psychology, and writing, and marketing, and among other different and variety of classes the candidate may have chosen to take in college. i know if i hired this person, i'll have good conversations on a daily basis which will mutually stimulate our creativity.

with art background under your belt, your design has meaning not just for yourself, but for your audience as well. nothing exists in a vacumm. understanding design, how and where it came from, brings your design to a higher level of appeal. design that speaks to a wider audience has more timeless quality as it speaks to people with different background and experience.

pure creativity alone can become selfish and indulgent. it can become an visual orgy of one, of that one designer. depending on what's hot at the moment, and with luck, it may appeal to more people. creativity is the critical ingredient in graphic design. however, like cooking, if it's put in the pot by itself, it is just that: one ingredient. then it is like boiling water: one dimensional. it is what it is. no more no less.

graphic design has one subtle difference next to fine art: it is meant for the masses. it is meant to communicate to a wide audience. it is meant as a *tool* to persuade, whether to buy a product, a belief, a proproganda, etc. it is meant for others, not just for one self.

look at apple for example. the company has a vision: to merge computing with our everyday life without becoming an intrusion; to make computing accessible and easy to understand; to appeal to the casual population of users who are, for the most part, novice in their knowledge of the computer. at the same time, it knows the other set of users: the hacks and the fans.

with this vision, apple's line of product, both on a product design and graphic design level, are simple yet powerful; creative yet non-intrusive; avant garde yet familiar. they understood the needs of the user, the wider audience, and designed accordingly with controlled creativity.

whereas windows products have always been technologically cryptic and visually harsh, dumbed-down to the point of useless. i am an adept computer user, but i don't understand why ms word---for as long as it has been around---cannot be designed to have a better user interface and intuitive workflow. and it is, essentially, the same as when it first came out.

now look at the new mac application, pages. it is the first version, and for all practical purposes, it could be the only version for all i care. it makes you wonder: why ms word can't be like pages after all these years?

my point is, windows xp may seem like a creative overhaul, but it actually is just good ol' win2000 with a new outfit. and like the fads, outfits come and go. this drive back to the idea of timeless graphic design and contemporary design: it is a matter of taste and of your temperament.

unfortunately, graphic design is highly subjective: subjective in that there is no wrong design. it's more like what is *appropriate* design for a set audience. as one poster stated in this thread, "everyone is a designer."

with technology being soooo affordable and accessible, anyone can take a digital picture (or scan one in), put it in a layout application, add some clip arts to "jazz" it up, key in some "catchy" headline in a font available by default: arial, impact, trebuchet, papyrus, etc. (or better yet from the 5000 fonts cd collection), and finally drop in some color.

that is graphic design. it *is* graphic design as it has fulfilled many criteria for what graphic design is. the question is: do you serve up a bucket of "death by chocolate" ice cream to a diabetic?

the short version of this post is this: it's good to seek other's opinions and agree/refute with some degree of understanding and usefulness. :p

[iGav]

hmmm... OK. Let's just say it's highly recommended.

I don't see it as any more valid than a knowledge of Design History.

And yes, I do separate Design History from Art History.

[Blue Velvet]

And yes, I do separate Design History from Art History.

A decent grounding of typographic principles & history is essential to be a decent designer IMHO.

You can have an entire career as an artist not having to worry about type, but a design project without type is a pretty rare thing.

[decksnap]

Well why would you? Design History IS just as important. But weren't we talking about a background in art as in the fundamentals of art, not art history? (BTW, all three are important and necessary to achieve a BFA in Graphic Design)

The art 'background' that comes into play is things like color theory, 2D and 3D Design, Typography, Illustration, etc. The history is the other half of it, but arguably equally as important.

History of Graphic Design was one of my most beneficial courses actually.

[ry4n]

in reference to will's post above..

i agree with you.. and my posts have more had two unclear points.. do what you want, and if you're afraid you can't because of no art background, dont let that be the limiting factor..

i totally agree with your post though, and i do think i'm sometimes clouded by what i take for granted.. the reason my posts may have come off bad sounding is i felt like people were pushing the poster away based soley on teh fact of no art background..

but original poster.. whoever you are.. listen to will's post above..

[iGav]

But weren't we talking about a background in art as in the fundamentals of art

Not uniquely no, I was merely raising a point. Throughout this thread there has been much discussion of choosing an artist, and art history, and art theory and the fundamentals of art yet very little about choosing a designer or a typographer, or design history, or design theory or the fundamentals of design which are surely more relevent in a thread about Graphic Design.


A decent grounding of typographic principles & history is essential to be a decent designer IMHO.

And I'm utterly astonished that this isn't being discussed more in a topic about Graphic Design.

[FlamDrag]

[snip]

As far as the college part of it- be prepared to shoulder a much larger workload than those around you with different majors. Their classes may be an hour apiece- yours will probably be three and a half. Their daily homework may take three hours- yours will probably take six.

[snip]



This is very true; It's not really a reason to go one way or the other, but still very very true. We received 3 credit hours for attending class 7 hours a week, while every other class in the Uni was 3 hours credit for 2.75 hours of class. Let's not even discuss the amount of time in homework, cost for extra materials, extra fees for the classess imposed by the college etc.

Our History of Design course was flexible as far as when we had to take it, but I sure wish I had taken it earlier. What a great class; so critical.

Anyway, my position is still: If you're really into design, go for it. If you're really into something else do that instead.

[willnight]

Not uniquely no, I was merely raising a point. Throughout this thread there has been much discussion of choosing an artist, and art history, and art theory and the fundamentals of art yet very little about choosing a designer or a typographer, or design history, or design theory or the fundamentals of design which are surely more relevent in a thread about Graphic Design.

And I'm utterly astonished that this isn't being discussed more in a topic about Graphic Design.


well.. it seems you're passionate about graphic design and looking forward to discuss what you know.

keep in mind though---and this is not to say whether you are right or wrong---of the original poster's intentions and level of commitment to the idea of being a graphic designer.

sure, we can all talk about zapf and his crazy fonts and the anal swiss grids until the topics grow old, but it really is moot if the original poster is not (yet) aware of these things. he is merely feeling it out. from the sound of it, he is a design hobbyist trying to figure out if he wants to do it professionally. i really doubt if an in depth discussion on the topic itself with help him "find his calling."

wouldn't you think he would be intimidated and not be able to relate to a full-blown discussion of typography, not knowing who paul rand or jan tschichold are? or why april greiman's stuff was so avant garde and her relationship with the mac? and that pentagram is not perceived as witchcraft in the graphic design world, but rather betwitching, beautiful design?

what everyone offer in this thread, i think, was relevant to the original poster's needs: touching the surface and feeling it out what it would be like to be a graphic designer. if he *did* decide to pursue graphic design in college, his first year will probably require both graphic design history as well as art history. he'll have more than enough to talk about then! (especially having to remember all those names, movements and dates on exam day!)

and besides, this is *macrumors.com*, not aiga.org. ;)