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MacRumors
Jun 6, 2011, 08:06 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/06/video-of-pc-less-set-up-of-ios-5-with-icloud/)


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This video shows the first setup of iOS 5 simply using your Apple ID, demonstrating one of the big new features of iOS 5 termed "PC Free" (http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html#pcfree). With iOS 5, you no longer need a computer to own an iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch. Activate and set up your device wirelessly, right out of the box. Download free iOS software updates directly on your device. Do more with your apps — like editing your photos or adding new email folders — on your device, without the need for a Mac or PC. And back up and restore your device automatically using iCloud.The video shows a user first setting up their iPhone by entering their Apple ID and password. iOS 5 then asks the user to set up iCloud and Find My iPhone, after which the iPhone is restored from backup with Apps being redownloaded in the background.

Article Link: Video of "PC Less" Set Up of iOS 5 with iCloud (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/06/video-of-pc-less-set-up-of-ios-5-with-icloud/)



NXTMIKE
Jun 6, 2011, 08:12 PM
anybody notice how the iPod app has been split up to have separate apps for music/videos/etc... (a la iPod Touch style).

robertcoogan
Jun 6, 2011, 08:12 PM
Ok, just for the record, the accompanying music is great.

(imho)

:D

twoodcc
Jun 6, 2011, 08:19 PM
Looks good to me. Glad to see apple going this route

infiniphonic
Jun 6, 2011, 08:22 PM
Wonderful. I can't wait to try it out. Who's the piano player?

calsci
Jun 6, 2011, 08:23 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

anybody notice how the iPod app has been split up to have separate apps for music/videos/etc... (a la iPod Touch style).

I really hope they just keep it as a unified app like it is now. It works great. I wish they could bring the unified approach to the touch instead

megsandbytes
Jun 6, 2011, 08:27 PM
This is a great improvement. Not exactly sure why a "PC Free" type setup wasn't the case to begin with (mainly speaking about the iPad here), but better late than never.

Xenc
Jun 6, 2011, 08:27 PM
Cool video. It does, however, miss out the steps where you select your country and so forth (ie. on a device that hasn't been restored from a backup).

Mike P.
Jun 6, 2011, 08:30 PM
The quality of the video is just horrible.

blow45
Jun 6, 2011, 08:30 PM
Looks super cool!

NebulaClash
Jun 6, 2011, 08:33 PM
This is a great improvement. Not exactly sure why a "PC Free" type setup wasn't the case to begin with (mainly speaking about the iPad here), but better late than never.

Generally speaking, you can assume that if Apple doesn't do something obvious right away it's because they felt they couldn't do a good job of it and thus held back until they felt they were ready. It can be frustrating. Other companies push functionality out even when it isn't ready just to fill out check lists, but Apple is willing to lose the check list war if they can win the ease of use war in the long run.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 6, 2011, 08:33 PM
Given the trends in PC sales, being PC free will be especially appreciated by Windows users.

Not to mention Lion will be $30 and Windows is well over $100.

gigemzach
Jun 6, 2011, 08:43 PM
I just feel that this is going to use A LOT of data. Not only am I capped on the mobile side but I am capped at home. I am not allowed no more than 30GB at home. I really love this idea, but am worried about the risks.

*LTD*
Jun 6, 2011, 08:47 PM
Notice the "PC Free" double-meaning? ;)

Post-PC era, folks.

GregR
Jun 6, 2011, 08:51 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Has anyone noticed how the iPhone is a Verizon iPhone? You can see the carrier name and different antenna

sparkso
Jun 6, 2011, 08:54 PM
Alrighty Finally.!!! This is going to be one good update.

Stevesbodyguard
Jun 6, 2011, 08:54 PM
ummm...pretty sure the phone is plugged in...what is up with that?

franswa za
Jun 6, 2011, 09:01 PM
ummm...pretty sure the phone is plugged in...what is up with that?

charging, i hope
:)

domness
Jun 6, 2011, 09:04 PM
Yeh apparently some of the syncing only works when charging.

silentnite
Jun 6, 2011, 09:09 PM
All I can say is Apple is on the right track for the future. This is where it's at. easy setup no computer needed means faster upgrading and uploading and can be done from the office or your car while on the go.

iMJustAGuy
Jun 6, 2011, 09:11 PM
I just feel that this is going to use A LOT of data. Not only am I capped on the mobile side but I am capped at home. I am not allowed no more than 30GB at home. I really love this idea, but am worried about the risks.

Most all home internet is capped now but it's usually between 200 and 300 gigs. Why in the world is yours 30?

eye
Jun 6, 2011, 09:14 PM
Game changer.

dannyboy8807
Jun 6, 2011, 09:20 PM
I work in a retail store an often see many customers share iTunes logins to share paid apps. At first this seemed like it would make my job a lot easier but I suppose people sharing iTunes accounts would end up identical in every other way huh? I suppose that is against the user agreement anyway though is it not?

Hueyfreeman
Jun 6, 2011, 09:23 PM
Notice the "PC Free" double-meaning? ;)

Post-PC era, folks.

Now all they need is an accessible file system. And they could almost pass for it.

I know i am going to get downvoted for this but at the moment Android is more passable for a PC replacement then iOS. But the gap is closing.

iEvolution
Jun 6, 2011, 09:23 PM
Well now iOS can run independent from a computer so they are now they are a legit computer themselves. Pretty cool.

mr.steevo
Jun 6, 2011, 09:25 PM
Do you need a credit card number to get an apple ID?

AppleScruff1
Jun 6, 2011, 09:27 PM
What a revolutionary idea. No one else would have ever done this.

snebes
Jun 6, 2011, 09:32 PM
Do you need a credit card number to get an apple ID?

At this time, no.

https://appleid.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MyAppleId.woa/wa/createAppleId?localang=en_US

caspersoong
Jun 6, 2011, 09:32 PM
Why PC Free? Not Mac free? Or computer-free?

blow45
Jun 6, 2011, 09:34 PM
Why PC Free? Not Mac free? Or computer-free?

Good point

snebes
Jun 6, 2011, 09:35 PM
Why PC Free? Not Mac free? Or computer-free?

Apple is calling these Post-PC (as in any personal computer) devices.

http://tonixoxo.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/tropic_thunder_rdj.jpg

You people! You people! What do you mean by "you people"?

Hueyfreeman
Jun 6, 2011, 09:40 PM
Given the trends in PC sales, being PC free will be especially appreciated by Windows users.

Not to mention Lion will be $30 and Windows is well over $100.

I think due to how crappy Itunes runs on windows many windows users will like this. But they still need iTunes. iTunes is the major reason I don't want an iPhone. It does not play well with a gaming rig. A ********* gaming rig.

Most windows 7 users won't upgrade. So it doesn't matter. I only upgrade when I buy a new Motherboard.

WestonHarvey1
Jun 6, 2011, 09:49 PM
Having used this for a few hours now, I've got to say the last time I saw an update to iOS that felt this important and significant was the introduction of the App Store.

You can hold your iPhones up high. Android has *nothing* on this. Better maps I guess, but that's it.

roratus
Jun 6, 2011, 09:50 PM
So does this mean the 30 pin connector is on it's way out? Perhaps to be replaced with a mag safe type connector?

WestonHarvey1
Jun 6, 2011, 09:58 PM
So does this mean the 30 pin connector is on it's way out? Perhaps to be replaced with a mag safe type connector?

Not any time soon. The 30 pin connector is supported by the accessory API and ditching it would break a lot of third party accessories.

Hueyfreeman
Jun 6, 2011, 10:05 PM
Having used this for a few hours now, I've got to say the last time I saw an update to iOS that felt this important and significant was the introduction of the App Store.

You can hold your iPhones up high. Android has *nothing* on this. Better maps I guess, but that's it.

Uhh android has had this feature since day one. Remember Android doesn't need syncing software. And if someone wanted to they could use double twist which also had a wireless sync for some time. I have to say apple has added nothing new this time.

docorlando
Jun 6, 2011, 10:07 PM
The only potential issue I see with this is a situation my parents might have. They'd love an iPad, but understand that they can't use it with their current computer (an old G4 iBook). iOS5 will solve that, and I can see an iPad2 (or 3) becoming a replacement for the iBook, which is starting to slow.

Problem is: If they get rid of the iBook, what do they do if their local (home) wifi goes down, or they have to set up a new modem or router? Without being able to set up a hard connection (Ethernet) for troubleshooting, this would seem to limit their accessibility. Am I missing something?

ten-oak-druid
Jun 6, 2011, 10:18 PM
Why PC Free? Not Mac free? Or computer-free?

Mac's are PC's too. PC = personal computer. It is not specific to an OS.

stevenjev
Jun 6, 2011, 10:18 PM
I currently share an itunes account with my brother, it saves us having to buy and download two apps that are the same. With this iOS 5 update, im not quite sure how this will work.. Might it be possible to use multiple accounts, say for example, one for syncing documents, pictures, etc. and one for apps??

Hueyfreeman
Jun 6, 2011, 10:21 PM
lol wat

Every thing I posted is a fact.

Tonewheel
Jun 6, 2011, 10:24 PM
I recently upgraded my Phone with iOS 5 Beta. It looks very slow but I see the iCloud feature not working.

See this post. Please let me know if I have to do anything special.

http://ios5source.com

It's disabled in this developer beta.

WestonHarvey1
Jun 6, 2011, 10:26 PM
Uhh android has had this feature since day one. Remember Android doesn't need syncing software. And if someone wanted to they could use double twist which also had a wireless sync for some time. I have to say apple has added nothing new this time.

I don't disagree with you, except for the not adding something new part. One of Android's greatest strengths was Google's cloud computing. The single sign on giving you access to email and contacts and all that. Apple has surpassed them, however, with the iCloud APIs baked into all their OSes.

This is going to be huge.

Yvan256
Jun 6, 2011, 10:26 PM
Most all home internet is capped now but it's usually between 200 and 300 gigs. Why in the world is yours 30?

I don't know where gigemzach lives, but here in Québec, if your ISP is Télébec and you're on the 2Mbps or 5Mbps cable modem (I think the 8Mbps too), your monthly cap is 35GB. That's 35GB total, upload+download combined.

And if your ISP is Télébec, it means you're more than likely in a region where there is only Télébec, no other choice for your ISP.

Hueyfreeman
Jun 6, 2011, 10:27 PM
Mac's are PC's too. PC = personal computer. It is not specific to an OS.

I hate when people call it PC vs Mac.

We don't say Dogs vs Pugs.

I call them Windows vs Mac os.

They use the same hardware anyway.

darknite38
Jun 6, 2011, 10:28 PM
Wow! Amazing! Revolutionary! Original! Apple now has a NEW feature that allows you to setup your phone WITHOUT a computer!

This is why I LOVE Apple!

b166er
Jun 6, 2011, 10:33 PM
Does anyone know if you will be able to use multiple account from one iDevice?

Let's say you take your new iPhone out of the box and it's on iOS 5. You sign in with your ID and set up without a PC. Can you "log out" from your ID at some point and hand the device off to a friend who also has an Apple ID?

Just curious how this would work with data providers. I can see it being no problem at all with a wifi only device, but with an iPhone on 3G someone is getting the bill. Since our Apple ID's are independent from our service providers I was just wondering if/how this might go down.

WestonHarvey1
Jun 6, 2011, 10:38 PM
Wow! Amazing! Revolutionary! Original! Apple now has a NEW feature that allows you to setup your phone WITHOUT a computer!

This is why I LOVE Apple!

You're looking at it backwards. That improvement to the end user is a consequence of the incredible infrastructure Apple has built. No, it isn't necessary to build something like that just to free a phone from requiring a PC to tether to. But in this case it's just a very simple thing you get "for free" because of it.

It's hard for many to see what iCloud really is right now, even in the context of WWDC. It's sort of like someone just unveiled a massive nationwide network of railroad tracks to a country that hasn't heard of trains.

The small little use cases we've seen so far are just sort of the morning dew collecting on top of a colossal rocket that is just getting ready to be fired up.

b166er
Jun 6, 2011, 10:42 PM
It's hard for many to see what iCloud really is right now, even in the context of WWDC. It's sort of like someone just unveiled a massive nationwide network of railroad tracks to a country that hasn't heard of trains.


best analogy for a lot of people on here. that is exactly what we're looking at right now.

jmull
Jun 6, 2011, 10:49 PM
I like it. The people spoke and Apple listened. Or they just used common sense. :) :apple:

WestonHarvey1
Jun 6, 2011, 10:52 PM
best analogy for a lot of people on here. that is exactly what we're looking at right now.

As an aside, I also find it interesting how Apple has decided to describe iCloud in the developer APIs - they don't use the word "cloud" in the method and library names, they use "Ubiquitous" and "Ubiquity".

Your data is now ubiquitous. It is yours, and it is everywhere. It's not on any one device or in any one location. But it is yours and it is accessible all the time.

Sackvillenb
Jun 6, 2011, 10:53 PM
Most all home internet is capped now but it's usually between 200 and 300 gigs. Why in the world is yours 30?

The world is a big place, with different countries and different ways of life...

Many places have low data caps and painfully high (i.e. gouging) bandwidth fees. Canada is one of those places. I love my country, but we basically have a monopoly on internet providers (well, a "monopoly" run by a small number of companies) so they can shaft us extremely hard with low data caps and outrageous fees. :mad: And this severely limits the potential of cloud based services in many parts of the world. But... someday this will change...

42streetsdown
Jun 6, 2011, 10:55 PM
I just feel that this is going to use A LOT of data. Not only am I capped on the mobile side but I am capped at home. I am not allowed no more than 30GB at home. I really love this idea, but am worried about the risks.

you'll still be able to do cable syncing. just use wireless for small stuff i guess

palebluedot
Jun 6, 2011, 10:55 PM
best analogy for a lot of people on here. that is exactly what we're looking at right now.

Why do y'all all welcome the Post-PC era so readily? In one to two generations you could have kids growing up with no knowledge of how the dumb terminals/technology they use works.

At least PCs (and Macs for those hung up on the label) give you the power of control to learn/innovate. I think that iPhone/iPad are awesome as companion devices, and even will become main devices for some older folks/computer illiterate... but to me they can't replace the power or openness of a PC.

On top of that, with a PC accessible file system I have local control of what data I want to have reside on a third party/company server and what data I want to control locally. It's funny reading MR split between these two camps, esp. the folks who act shocked that not everyone has unlimited Internet. My Comcast can download at 30Mb/sec down but is capped at 300 GB. It's easy to hit that cap with stuff like this.

WestonHarvey1
Jun 6, 2011, 11:02 PM
Why do y'all all welcome the Post-PC era so readily? In one to two generations you could have kids growing up with no knowledge of how the dumb terminals/technology they use works.

At least PCs (and Macs for those hung up on the label) give you the power of control to learn/innovate. I think that iPhone/iPad are awesome as companion devices, and even will become main devices for some older folks/computer illiterate... but to me they can't replace the power or openness of a PC.

On top of that, with a PC accessible file system I have local control of what data I want to have reside on a third party/company server and what data I want to control locally. It's funny reading MR split between these two camps, esp. the folks who act shocked that not everyone has unlimited Internet. My Comcast can download at 30Mb/sec down but is capped at 300 GB. It's easy to hit that cap with stuff like this.

I hear you, but not everyone wants to be a nerd. Most people don't want to be. They just want stuff that works, and even the best PC OS is a compromise.

b166er
Jun 6, 2011, 11:03 PM
I don't see myself ever not having a macbook or mac desktop, but with the whole "post-pc" thing, it really is just natural. I use my macbook less and less all the time now. I usually only get on it to do more intense video/photo editing. Everything else can be done on the go from my iPhone/iPad. For someone like me, who is probably comparable to an average user, I don't need a mac or a pc to do my daily routine anymore. Facebook, basic web browsing, youtube, email.... that's a typical day for me. And I usually do it all from my iDevices now vs my macbook.

When my parents were my age the word "computer" still meant a thing the size of a football field that required fission to power. And in the scheme of things that was not all that long ago. No matter what happens kids will always belittle their parents for being out of touch. I kind of welcome that in a weird way.

huss8585
Jun 6, 2011, 11:04 PM
one downside to ios 5 is the large space that the firmware takes up. it is about double the size of the 4.x firmware. I love ios 5, but if you have a 8gb iphone or ipod, you lose alot of space

42streetsdown
Jun 6, 2011, 11:05 PM
Why do y'all all welcome the Post-PC era so readily? In one to two generations you could have kids growing up with no knowledge of how the dumb terminals/technology they use works.

At least PCs (and Macs for those hung up on the label) give you the power of control to learn/innovate. I think that iPhone/iPad are awesome as companion devices, and even will become main devices for some older folks/computer illiterate... but to me they can't replace the power or openness of a PC.

On top of that, with a PC accessible file system I have local control of what data I want to have reside on a third party/company server and what data I want to control locally. It's funny reading MR split between these two camps, esp. the folks who act shocked that not everyone has unlimited Internet. My Comcast can download at 30Mb/sec down but is capped at 300 GB. It's easy to hit that cap with stuff like this.

i think you're overestimating the size of the files that'll be passed. 300 gigs is a lot for photos, music and apps

CQd44
Jun 6, 2011, 11:05 PM
Android phones don't need a computer to be set up. Derp.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 6, 2011, 11:09 PM
I don't see myself ever not having a macbook or mac desktop, but with the whole "post-pc" thing, it really is just natural. I use my macbook less and less all the time now. I usually only get on it to do more intense video/photo editing. Everything else can be done on the go from my iPhone/iPad. For someone like me, who is probably comparable to an average user, I don't need a mac or a pc to do my daily routine anymore. Facebook, basic web browsing, youtube, email.... that's a typical day for me. And I usually do it all from my iDevices now vs my macbook.

When my parents were my age the word "computer" still meant a thing the size of a football field that required fission to power. And in the scheme of things that was not all that long ago. No matter what happens kids will always belittle their parents for being out of touch. I kind of welcome that in a weird way.


Not long ago I thought I would always have a desktop computer for the "heavy duty" movie editing projects. The faster CPU's and the larger storage sizes of the the drives made it more practical. But now my macbook is good enough for the movie editing I do. So I can't imagine ever getting a tower again. I was considering a mac mini as an entertainment system device but given how well the Apple TV works, I may not need that either. So point sof view do change.

For myself I can't imagine being PC free. But my parents for instance would be just fine with an ipad. They are not going to do any movie editing. They leave that to me.

Sackvillenb
Jun 6, 2011, 11:54 PM
These changes will indeed bring about the post pc era. A true pc (laptop or desktop) will never really be replaced (not for a very long time anyway), but as tablets grow in power and capability, normal people won't need laptops or desktops (pc). Seriously, for a computing appliance that does Internet, email, and even photo and video editing in a simple and cheap manner, the tablet will do it. And it will do it better and better over time. Only power users will need a pc. When I need to use photoshop or logic pro, or if I need to do heavy duty video editing or play fancy games or do science research I will use my MacBook pro or iMac. But most people don't do these things. And for everything else, I literally almost only use my iPad. There will always be normal people and pro users, and they have different needs.

JAT
Jun 6, 2011, 11:57 PM
I currently share an itunes account with my brother, it saves us having to buy and download two apps that are the same. With this iOS 5 update, im not quite sure how this will work.. Might it be possible to use multiple accounts, say for example, one for syncing documents, pictures, etc. and one for apps??

This is the problem with all these changes coming. Apple is making systems for single people that are, idk, waiters or some crap job. What about families and those who work with another computer system? I need to buy 2 2TB disks for home at the moment, for storage and backup purposes. How is the cloud going to help that? And my office can't be synced up with an iPad, not like this. I'd still have to go the traditional ActiveSync and Remote Desktop methods for that.

Let's call this Post-PC alpha. Maybe we'll see beta in a few years, and by 2020 have version 1.0.

b166er
Jun 7, 2011, 12:03 AM
seriously. where do waiters get off owning iPads?

Bulletbilly
Jun 7, 2011, 12:09 AM
This is going to be so nice. I can't wait to go to the Apple store and buy my new device and have it set up with all of my data so I don't even have to go home.

Hueyfreeman
Jun 7, 2011, 12:10 AM
Now I can see my self being semi PC free. I only use my pc to play WoW, Black Ops and portal, doing homework, and web-browsing during the school Year. During the summer I get out more and I tend to just use my Phone for webbrowsing. I am a Heavy Computer enthusiast However. I build my own rigs and my friends rigs for hobby. But 4 months out of the year I am pretty much PC free.

htpw16
Jun 7, 2011, 12:31 AM
How long does it usually take until a GM is released?

ilfn143
Jun 7, 2011, 12:52 AM
love the no pc-setup thing on my android phone

Andronicus
Jun 7, 2011, 12:54 AM
When did we get up/down rank buttons? AWESOME! :D

MoreAwesomeDanU
Jun 7, 2011, 01:23 AM
Looks sweet, can't wait.

blipmusic
Jun 7, 2011, 01:46 AM
If any of the new APIs allow for on-device typesetting of latex-documents, I'm ready to pass on my aging MBP and try an iPad as my only device/computer.

Non-tethered setup/updates + iCloud goes a long way towards that.

(I'll probably end up with an MBA 11" instead but *ngghh* so close now.)

Michael Scrip
Jun 7, 2011, 02:08 AM
Uhh android has had this feature since day one. Remember Android doesn't need syncing software. And if someone wanted to they could use double twist which also had a wireless sync for some time. I have to say apple has added nothing new this time.

True... but think about this...

When someone brings home a new iPhone... and they plug it into iTunes (because they have to)... chances are they already had an iPod before. All their stuff gets synced to their new iPhone automatically.

However, when someone brings home a new Android phone... most people aren't technically savvy enough to drag a bunch of folders over to the phone... and/or manage their music themselves.

DoubleTwist? I know about it because I'm a geek... but it's far from being a well-known solution. Google Music and Amazon are great if you have an Android phone... but they are too new and still nowhere near mainstream.


Bottom line... every person I know with an iPhone had all of their music on it from day one.

My Android friends? They don't ever use their phones for music. I know people who have Android phones... and they still use their iPods.

I know that's just my anecdotal evidence... but it really rings true with the average consumer.

JasperJanssen
Jun 7, 2011, 02:48 AM
The only potential issue I see with this is a situation my parents might have. They'd love an iPad, but understand that they can't use it with their current computer (an old G4 iBook). iOS5 will solve that, and I can see an iPad2 (or 3) becoming a replacement for the iBook, which is starting to slow.

Problem is: If they get rid of the iBook, what do they do if their local (home) wifi goes down, or they have to set up a new modem or router? Without being able to set up a hard connection (Ethernet) for troubleshooting, this would seem to limit their accessibility. Am I missing something?

Speaking as an ISP support tech, decent providers will put wifi on their modems activated and WPA2 protected from the factory, these days. And we at least can get into the modem remotely for setup if necessary (after activation by the customer).

Hueyfreeman
Jun 7, 2011, 02:52 AM
True... but think about this...

When someone brings home a new iPhone... and they plug it into iTunes (because they have to)... chances are they already had an iPod before. All their stuff gets synced to their new iPhone automatically.

However, when someone brings home a new Android phone... most people aren't technically savvy enough to drag a bunch of folders over to the phone... and/or manage their music themselves.

DoubleTwist? I know about it because I'm a geek... but it's far from being a well-known solution. Google Music and Amazon are great if you have an Android phone... but they are too new and still nowhere near mainstream.


Bottom line... every person I know with an iPhone had all of their music on it from day one.

My Android friends? They don't ever use their phones for music. I know people who have Android phones... and they still use their iPods.

I know that's just my anecdotal evidence... but it really rings true with the average consumer.

My android friends I find it pretty clear cut. For some reason the Friends who use Mac Machines Don't have music on their phones. Hell they don't know they can put music on it. On the other hand the ones who have windows computers have tons of songs on their phones. I think the mac users are just so use to iTunes doing it for them. Some don't even know you can move music without it.

kiljoy616
Jun 7, 2011, 02:55 AM
I thought they took out the old notification?

I just saw a whole video on the new notification center so why the old one popping up.

kiljoy616
Jun 7, 2011, 02:57 AM
My android friends I find it pretty clear cut. For some reason the Friends who use Mac Machines Don't have music on their phones. Hell they don't know they can put music on it. On the other hand the ones who have windows computers have tons of songs on their phones. I think the mac users are just so use to iTunes doing it for them. Some don't even know you can move music without it.

You have friends really and these mac friends have no idea how to click on a Music tab or sync really, not sure about you but your friends sound imaginary. :p

kiljoy616
Jun 7, 2011, 03:00 AM
Not long ago I thought I would always have a desktop computer for the "heavy duty" movie editing projects. The faster CPU's and the larger storage sizes of the the drives made it more practical. But now my macbook is good enough for the movie editing I do. So I can't imagine ever getting a tower again. I was considering a mac mini as an entertainment system device but given how well the Apple TV works, I may not need that either. So point sof view do change.

For myself I can't imagine being PC free. But my parents for instance would be just fine with an ipad. They are not going to do any movie editing. They leave that to me.

Depends on size and type of movie but you could actually do it on an ipad 2 without any problems. So who know in a few years a lot of things we could not see doing without a desktop may come true. :)

Michael Scrip
Jun 7, 2011, 03:03 AM
My android friends I find it pretty clear cut. For some reason the Friends who use Mac Machines Don't have music on their phones. Hell they don't know they can put music on it. On the other hand the ones who have windows computers have tons of songs on their phones. I think the mac users are just so use to iTunes doing it for them. Some don't even know you can move music without it.

Yeah... there are all kinds of people out there.

I know people who save files on their desktop because they don't know any better.

Or, they have photos still on their camera from a year ago because they don't know how to manage digital photos.

Files and folders scare most people :)

aucl
Jun 7, 2011, 03:04 AM
Most all home internet is capped now but it's usually between 200 and 300 gigs. Why in the world is yours 30?

mine is 9GB but that's cause i connect via 3G ;)
(for less than 9eur/month)

Winni
Jun 7, 2011, 03:21 AM
All I can say is Apple is on the right track for the future. This is where it's at. easy setup no computer needed means faster upgrading and uploading and can be done from the office or your car while on the go.

In other words, they are now copying features that Android had right from the start.

blipmusic
Jun 7, 2011, 03:27 AM
mine is 9GB but that's cause i connect via 3G ;)
(for less than 9eur/month)

I was lucky to get in before caps became the norm so my 3G connection isn't capped at all. :D Usually end up between 30-50GB/month (it's my only connection). I love the freedom it allows for.

DennisVR
Jun 7, 2011, 03:37 AM
My iPhone just got promoted to computer. ;)

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 03:56 AM
i think you're overestimating the size of the files that'll be passed. 300 gigs is a lot for photos, music and apps

A valid point under normal circumstances, but remember that data is being pushed to the cloud via your account, and then pushed back to all your devices (and desktop/s).

And remember that you want to use that 300gigs for your regular everyday doings too. The more active you are with your syncing and photosnapping, the quicker that allowance is going to dry up...

Biscuit411
Jun 7, 2011, 03:57 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Not long ago I thought I would always have a desktop computer for the "heavy duty" movie editing projects. The faster CPU's and the larger storage sizes of the the drives made it more practical. But now my macbook is good enough for the movie editing I do. So I can't imagine ever getting a tower again. I was considering a mac mini as an entertainment system device but given how well the Apple TV works, I may not need that either. So point sof view do change.

For myself I can't imagine being PC free. But my parents for instance would be just fine with an ipad. They are not going to do any movie editing. They leave that to me.

Depends on size and type of movie but you could actually do it on an ipad 2 without any problems. So who know in a few years a lot of things we could not see doing without a desktop may come true. :)

The only reason I use my computer is for pro-level audio recording/editing. Other than that, I'd be fine with a 'pc-free' iPhone. However, as a current and frequent user of all things MobileMe (web hosting, iDisk, etc.), I'm a bit nervous about changing to the cloud...

Sparced
Jun 7, 2011, 04:04 AM
How would someone get their broadband working with only a iPad?

You can't run AirPort Extreme settings as an App so we're not there yet.

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 04:27 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)



The only reason I use my computer is for pro-level audio recording/editing. Other than that, I'd be fine with a 'pc-free' iPhone. However, as a current and frequent user of all things MobileMe (web hosting, iDisk, etc.), I'm a bit nervous about changing to the cloud...

Well the cloud is opt-in, so you don't need to really pay it any attention I'd guess. MobileMe features will still exist, just under a different web address. I'm not too different myself, but I've been using dropbox instead of iDisk (iDisk is frustrating sometimes)... looking forward to seeing what people come up with using the iCloud API.

Lesser Evets
Jun 7, 2011, 04:58 AM
Well now iOS can run independent from a computer so they are now they are a legit computer themselves. Pretty cool.

Does this mean an iPad is now a full "pc"? Or an iPhone?

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 04:59 AM
Well the cloud is opt-in, so you don't need to really pay it any attention I'd guess. MobileMe features will still exist, just under a different web address. I'm not too different myself, but I've been using dropbox instead of iDisk (iDisk is frustrating sometimes)... looking forward to seeing what people come up with using the iCloud API.

I think the announcement of icloud having an API was significant. Not sure what the intent is, but it could be very cool for 3rd party apps to take advantage of Apple's cloud.

Lion coming out at only $30 is also significant. Great price. The song pairing for only $25 is also significant. I know I have about 300 songs that would be nice to have converted. The only thing disappointing about iOS 5 is that we have to wait until fall.

Yesterday was a good day. It will be interesting to see what other treats we get before the week is out.

aibo82
Jun 7, 2011, 05:11 AM
Does this have the ability to select the apps from the cloud you want?

Also the option to set up as a new iPhone when your battery life sucks from a dodgy backup?

I have 100's of apps half I don't use, I don't want the cloud downloading them all for me to just trawl through them on the device to delete the ones I don't want!

It needs a list to tick of your available apps so it downloads just them!

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 05:12 AM
love the no pc-setup thing on my android phone

And I bet you love the regular updates to your OS too. Oh wait... sorry. :p

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 05:17 AM
Does this have the ability to select the apps from the cloud you want?

Also the option to set up as a new iPhone when your battery life sucks from a dodgy backup?

I have 100's of apps half I don't use, I don't want the cloud downloading them all for me to just trawl through them on the device to delete the ones I don't want!

It needs a list to tick of your available apps so it downloads just them!

Given you can select what Apps to update now, I would think that would still be in there. I would also think you could shut off the auto updates. Seems logical.

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 05:18 AM
Does this have the ability to select the apps from the cloud you want?

Also the option to set up as a new iPhone when your battery life sucks from a dodgy backup?

I have 100's of apps half I don't use, I don't want the cloud downloading them all for me to just trawl through them on the device to delete the ones I don't want!

It needs a list to tick of your available apps so it downloads just them!

I should think that's a basic requirement when they designed it - I can't imagine they'd ignore that most people have more apps than they do space on their device ;)

More importantly, I hope this will lead to better tools/filters for singling out and organising the apps that we want to sync too. The current system is dreadful, I dont know what they were thinking. 450,000 apps in the store, and we're still limited to a vertical list... very poor considering how tight they are with their own "Human Interface Guidelines".

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 05:28 AM
I should think that's a basic requirement when they designed it - I can't imagine they'd ignore that most people have more apps than they do space on their device ;)

More importantly, I hope this will lead to better tools/filters for singling out and organising the apps that we want to sync too. The current system is dreadful, I dont know what they were thinking. 450,000 apps in the store, and we're still limited to a vertical list... very poor considering how tight they are with their own "Human Interface Guidelines".

Not sure what you mean in your second point about the organization of Apps???

On the iPhone it's a vertical list... you only have so much screen space. Also, there may be 450,000 apps on the app store, but you don't have that many in your account. If you are going for a new app you have iTunes to access the store, or if you're on an iPad you have a nice interface for direct access as well that is not a list. Seems you're taking the concept of App updating and mixing it with App buying.

Žalgiris
Jun 7, 2011, 05:36 AM
In other words, they are now copying features that Android had right from the start.

Can you please stop this nonsense? Thanks.

dmunz
Jun 7, 2011, 05:36 AM
True... but think about this...

When someone brings home a new iPhone... and they plug it into iTunes (because they have to)... chances are they already had an iPod before. All their stuff gets synced to their new iPhone automatically.

However, when someone brings home a new Android phone... most people aren't technically savvy enough to drag a bunch of folders over to the phone... and/or manage their music themselves.

DoubleTwist? I know about it because I'm a geek... but it's far from being a well-known solution. Google Music and Amazon are great if you have an Android phone... but they are too new and still nowhere near mainstream.


Bottom line... every person I know with an iPhone had all of their music on it from day one.

My Android friends? They don't ever use their phones for music. I know people who have Android phones... and they still use their iPods.

I know that's just my anecdotal evidence... but it really rings true with the average consumer.

I'm sort of in this boat. I've had an iPod since v1 and worked my way through all the editions of the touch. I picked up a Verizon Thinderbolt because it was a better 4G/3G hotspot solution for me than CLEAR. I started messing around with Android and it really reminds me of the old Palm days (neat in a geeky way.)

I have DoublTwist and it works great, but I just can't be bothered to sync all my stuff over. I have something like 48GB of music and a bunch of videos on my touch and it is too much work to manage it in two places.

However, the real barrier to change is the iTunes store. There is nothing like it in the Android world (yet.) The fact that I can get notolgic about an episode of the X-Files and go right to the store and buy it gives Apple a huge lead in service. The small size and over all solid feel of the iPod Touch helps a whole lot too. (Give me a 4.3 inch screen and a data connection and the touch will be perfect ;) )

Oh, I do everything off windows boxes and have a company BlackBerry for cell serivce.

FWIW
DLM

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 05:44 AM
Can you please stop this nonsense? Thanks.

+1

Complains it's not there, then complains it is there.

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 05:45 AM
Not sure what you mean in your second point about the organization of Apps???

On the iPhone it's a vertical list... you only have so much screen space. Also, there may be 450,000 apps on the app store, but you don't have that many in your account. If you are going for a new app you have iTunes to access the store, or if you're on an iPad you have a nice interface for direct access as well that is not a list. Seems you're taking the concept of App updating and mixing it with App buying.

That's not quite what I was getting at.

I mean in iTunes, all of your apps are listed in a window that scrolls vertically. You don't have any of the same features for categorising music, such as Playlists. How many I have in my account isn't the point - it's how many I could potentially have in my account (I currently have just under 2,000 apps, and that feels embarrassing -- one shoe does not fit everyone...) it's a lot to scroll through when looking for a handful of things to uncheck.

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 05:59 AM
That's not quite what I was getting at.

I mean in iTunes, all of your apps are listed in a window that scrolls vertically. You don't have any of the same features for categorising music, such as Playlists. How many I have in my account isn't the point - it's how many I could potentially have in my account (I currently have just under 2,000 apps, and that feels embarrassing -- one shoe does not fit everyone...) it's a lot to scroll through when looking for a handful of things to uncheck.

Gotcha! Now that makes sense! :D

Agreed... some organization like playlists in iTunes for Apps would be great.

SirHaakon
Jun 7, 2011, 06:16 AM
I still don't see a way to remove/delete a song from an iPhone without using a PC. Is there something completely obvious I'm missing?

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 06:25 AM
I still don't see a way to remove/delete a song from an iPhone without using a PC. Is there something completely obvious I'm missing?

That is coming in iOS 5... not out yet. But from what I saw from the developers that have it, they said you could swipe a song and the delete button would show.

Dcuellar
Jun 7, 2011, 06:29 AM
In other words, they are now copying features that Android had right from the start.

So what bothers you? That they are "copying" features?

Did Android have a smart phone before Apple?
What about App Store?
Or Music Store?
Tablet?

But I'm sure you are on an Android fan site busting their chops for all that, right?

All of the features announced yesterday I'm sure are features they have planned on adding eventually but have struggled with the idea of HOW they should do it instead of WHEN they should do it. Honestly, I'd rather they take their time and do it right.

Your signature says it all though, you are not a fan of Apple. Nevermind that they are giving us essentially a free cloud, Lion for 29 bucks, and features we've been wanting on the iOS...

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 06:30 AM
How else would the average person try the iOS beta? The yearly license, user agreement and 48-72 hour wait is enough to deter anyone.

Also doing instant registrations - brutisboot AT gmail DOT com

As a developer, Beta software is under NDA and not for distribution by anyone other than the publisher. Even though I could get the beta from my dev team, I'm not taking it. Why? It's beta and I'm not taking chances with equipment that I need to have operational. I'll wait.

But... back to point 1... I'm sure Apple would not be happy people are selling access to iOS 5 beta's. It's not cool.

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 06:32 AM
So what bothers you? That they are "copying" features?

Did Android have a smart phone before Apple?
What about App Store?
Or Music Store?
Tablet?

But I'm sure you are on an Android fan site busting their chops for all that, right?

All of the features announced yesterday I'm sure are features they have planned on adding eventually but have struggled with the idea of HOW they should do it instead of WHEN they should do it. Honestly, I'd rather they take their time and do it right.

Your signature says it all though, you are not a fan of Apple. Nevermind that they are giving us essentially a free cloud, Lion for 29 bucks, and features we've been wanting on the iOS...

He's just upset that Android has wireless updates for the OS, but he never gets any. :p

samcraig
Jun 7, 2011, 06:50 AM
As I posted in another thread (I actually started one) - the only "concern" I have is security and what measures are being taken. You just need an email and password and you have access to not only someones music - but apps AND their corresponding data. Now gaming data - who really cares. But there are apps which probably store private information and now that's being uploaded to the cloud and Apple has it.

I'm not suggesting Apple is being nefarious. However - it will be interesting to read the new EULA's to determine who/how ownership of all materials "synced" is handled.

It's very little wonder now that they conceded on the location data "fix" - because with the new OS - it's all moot, right? Because if you're backing up your device - you are sending all that data to Apple anyway - and you've approved it.

So again - it will be very interesting how security plays a role in this new feature of the OS.

Another question I had/have is - so you send stuff up to Apple's servers - say documents, etc. When you log into iCloud - will there be a way to pull everything/copy everything back to your hard drive. Or will it be a walled garden where only apps via APIs have access to directories.

Before I get too "excited" about having no tether... I'll look forward to seeing all the above addressed.

acidblue
Jun 7, 2011, 06:51 AM
Why PC Free? Not Mac free? Or computer-free?

No matter what else you call it, a Mac is a PC. ;-)

4D4M
Jun 7, 2011, 06:55 AM
So what bothers you? That they are "copying" features?

Did Android have a smart phone before Apple?
What about App Store?
Or Music Store?
Tablet?

But I'm sure you are on an Android fan site busting their chops for all that, right?

All of the features announced yesterday I'm sure are features they have planned on adding eventually but have struggled with the idea of HOW they should do it instead of WHEN they should do it. Honestly, I'd rather they take their time and do it right.

Your signature says it all though, you are not a fan of Apple. Nevermind that they are giving us essentially a free cloud, Lion for 29 bucks, and features we've been wanting on the iOS...

Well said. Makes you wonder why he hangs around here.

Wait... I think I know. He's the latest in a long line of them.

yugushen
Jun 7, 2011, 07:01 AM
Cool. I always never want to "sync" my iPad to iTunes on Mac. PC free totally make sense. Can't wait to try it.

chocolaterabbit
Jun 7, 2011, 07:08 AM
How else would the average person try the iOS beta? The yearly license, user agreement and 48-72 hour wait is enough to deter anyone.

Also doing instant registrations - brutisboot AT gmail DOT com

Uh, the whole idea of the beta is that not everyone has access to them. it's unfinished software and is meant for developers only.
Who's going to be responsible when someone uses the ios 5 beta and loses data? you? Profiteering off this is just plain wrong.

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 07:14 AM
The Death of iTunes.

It seems like one of the things Apple is doing is compartmentalizing iTunes Stores into their own Stores. There's the App Store. The Book Store, the new Magazine Subscription Store.... and soon, I'm guessing iTunes will go back to just being the music store.

This way, with devices all being managed independently and iCloud managing your purchases and content, you can easily trim iTunes back to music only and simplify the content management.

Think about it...

iTunes = Music Only
App Store = Applications for all devices.
Book Store = Books
Newsstand = Subscription Pubs.
iPhoto = Photos.
iCloud brings it all together and keeps it all sync'd.

They just need to acquire Netflxs and video's are done.

It's really cool what they are doing.

yg17
Jun 7, 2011, 07:27 AM
Game changer.

Smartphones have had PC-less setup since they came into existence in the 1990s. When Apple does it in 2011, it's not new, it's not innovative, and it's not a game changer. The process shown in the video looks nearly identical to what Android has had since day one - go through a wizard, enter your account information, and you're done. As soon as I enter my Google account info on a new Android phone, it instantly starts syncing my contacts, e-mail, etc. It couldn't be easier.

What a revolutionary idea. No one else would have ever done this.

I hope that's sarcasm. If not, see above.

Having used this for a few hours now, I've got to say the last time I saw an update to iOS that felt this important and significant was the introduction of the App Store.

You can hold your iPhones up high. Android has *nothing* on this. Better maps I guess, but that's it.

Android already has it. It also has the deep Twitter integration, cloud syncing (with Google accounts), as well as an excellent notification system that looks just like what Apple implemented.

jonnysods
Jun 7, 2011, 07:39 AM
I don't think that they wanted to have a PC Free setup until they had a stranglehold on the portable market. Now that they do they don't need to push people towards Macs and iTunes. iTunes and the app store can be accessed sans computer now. And this will give people a choice to give up PC's too, which doesn't hurt Apple's market share!

Pots of money to be made by Apple.

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 07:47 AM
Smartphones have had PC-less setup since they came into existence in the 1990s. When Apple does it in 2011, it's not new, it's not innovative, and it's not a game changer. The process shown in the video looks nearly identical to what Android has had since day one - go through a wizard, enter your account information, and you're done. As soon as I enter my Google account info on a new Android phone, it instantly starts syncing my contacts, e-mail, etc. It couldn't be easier.

I hope that's sarcasm. If not, see above.

Android already has it. It also has the deep Twitter integration, cloud syncing (with Google accounts), as well as an excellent notification system that looks just like what Apple implemented.

Sounds like total bliss on the Android side. Apple should just give up and go home. Even though they completely changed the smart phone market and everyone went to school on Apple, they should just give up. :rolleyes:

I think you fail to see the bigger picture here. While Google gives you lots of nice options because they have always been "cloud" based... they're an internet company and their apps are all based on their on-line services. Heck, I don't have to do anything either to keep my Gmail or Yahoo email in sync... it's all the same account no matter what device I access it on. Big deal. We all have that.

What's beautiful about what Apple is doing is not only allowing all iOS devices to be totally independent, they are keeping them all in sync too. In all ways. Even the OS. Not Android 2.5 on your phone and 3.0 Beta on your Tablet, with updates managed by Samsung or Moto or whoever.

In concept there are similarities, but in deployment they are different.

Yes Apple has been taking the "slow road" in some ways with specific features like improved notifications, but they appear to have a much bigger vision that is far beyond rushing features into the OS.

Digital Skunk
Jun 7, 2011, 07:48 AM
Game changer.

For Apple yes.

Now all they need is an accessible file system. And they could almost pass for it.

I know i am going to get downvoted for this but at the moment Android is more passable for a PC replacement then iOS. But the gap is closing.

True, and I didn't down vote you. It's too bad that there isn't too much perspective in the forums anymore . . . like it was years ago. Android has had many of these features since it's inception and the tech world is finally giving credit where it's due. Apple has always looked to it's competition for ideas, iOS5 features are the first time Apple has blatantly taken pages from WebOS and Android.

All for good reason of course.

On the other hand, the file system may not be as large a need for a cloud based user. If one were to store all of the files they'd need in the cloud or online then there'd be no need for a thumb drive or a phone with a file structure. One of the millions of questions I still have is whether or not the photo sync thing works in the other direction.

Project
Jun 7, 2011, 07:56 AM
PC free setup isn't a game changer. But iCloud is. All media, apps and their data, backed up automatically. No other smartphone ecosystem does this.

Eitanhawk
Jun 7, 2011, 07:59 AM
Hi
I have had alot of experience as an android tech and one of the biggest problem with the android sync was that it didn't back up the whole phone.
Most of the time only contacts and baught apps where backed up.
If I would want to use pc free I would want the iCloud to back up my whole phone!

Sackvillenb
Jun 7, 2011, 08:03 AM
On the other hand, the file system may not be as large a need for a cloud based user. If one were to store all of the files they'd need in the cloud or online then there'd be no need for a thumb drive or a phone with a file structure.

I don't know how that's true... storing in the cloud just means enhanced connectivity and automatic syncing, but your files are still being stored somewhere... and only access to the file system will give you direct access to those files...

What if you have lots of files you want to organize or categorize? Every computer since MSDOS has had a simple way to do this... called folders... except for ios devices...

What if you want to simply duplicate some files? Sure, some apps let you do this... but some don't. Half the point of a file system (and the program that accomplishes this, like Finder) is that you get independent and complete control over your files. Simple concept. But one that's missing from ios.

And what if you want to open a specific file type with multiple apps? Only some apps let you do this. For others, you need to duplicate that file in multiple apps. Ridiculous! On a real computer... you can open file x with 100 different programs!

For the ios devices to truly succeed in the long run (in terms of competing with real computers and becoming truly independent platforms), they will need a file system someday.

samcraig
Jun 7, 2011, 08:05 AM
Hi
I have had alot of experience as an android tech and one of the biggest problem with the android sync was that it didn't back up the whole phone.
Most of the time only contacts and baught apps where backed up.
If I would want to use pc free I would want the iCloud to back up my whole phone!

It was my understanding from the preso that you could buy a new iphone and basically re-synch and have everything copied over. Maybe they omitted things like texts, etc. It wasn't deeply discussed. Which is, again, why I bring up the security issue (as posted above)

Project
Jun 7, 2011, 08:05 AM
Hi
I have had alot of experience as an android tech and one of the biggest problem with the android sync was that it didn't back up the whole phone.
Most of the time only contacts and baught apps where backed up.
If I would want to use pc free I would want the iCloud to back up my whole phone!

I believe it does.

yg17
Jun 7, 2011, 08:07 AM
I believe it does.

HTC phones with Sense do. I know when I was playing around with custom ROMs on my Inspire and had to wipe and start fresh, it would restore my text messages I had synced with Sense.

dmunz
Jun 7, 2011, 08:07 AM
I have a considerable collection of "unauthorized live recordings" that I ripped from CDs and ported from LPs (records, plastic discs...nevermind) and tapes in my iTunes files. What happens to these when Apple reaches in? Will they slurp them up to the cloud and break all kinds of rules? Or report me to the authorities? Or wipe them from my hard drive? Or just ignor them?

I don't want to to start an ethics debate (although there is, IMHO, a huge difference between traditional bootlegs and pirated music) but these things are out there and this might cause problems for end users.

FWIW
DLM

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 08:10 AM
For Apple yes.



True, and I didn't down vote you. It's too bad that there isn't too much perspective in the forums anymore . . . like it was years ago. Android has had many of these features since it's inception and the tech world is finally giving credit where it's due. Apple has always looked to it's competition for ideas, iOS5 features are the first time Apple has blatantly taken pages from WebOS and Android.

All for good reason of course.

On the other hand, the file system may not be as large a need for a cloud based user. If one were to store all of the files they'd need in the cloud or online then there'd be no need for a thumb drive or a phone with a file structure. One of the millions of questions I still have is whether or not the photo sync thing works in the other direction.

Okay... let's set the record straight. Statements like "Android had this sense it's inception" is wrong. The first commercial Android based phone, which came out over a year after the first iPhone, was an abortion of a phone. Horrible. It was very half baked. But, like many phone OS makers out there, it changed and everyone went to school on each other and all the phone OS's have been changing and getting better.

So please.... Google and Android was not the phone Demi-god from the beginning. They have done a great job (better than any other phone OS by far) of keeping the innovation going. But, they too went to school on Apple in the beginning.

Now... back to the matter at hand... Apple products... this is the Apple forum you know. :)

zephonic
Jun 7, 2011, 08:10 AM
Nice music! who's the pianist?

Andy-V
Jun 7, 2011, 08:14 AM
No matter what else you call it, a Mac is a PC. ;-)

It is, which is why the Mac vs PC ads made very little sense.

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 08:15 AM
I have a considerable collection of "unauthorized live recordings" that I ripped from CDs and ported from LPs (records, plastic discs...nevermind) and tapes in my iTunes files. What happens to these when Apple reaches in? Will they slurp them up to the cloud and break all kinds of rules? Or report me to the authorities? Or wipe them from my hard drive? Or just ignor them?

I don't want to to start an ethics debate (although there is, IMHO, a huge difference between traditional bootlegs and pirated music) but these things are out there and this might cause problems for end users.

FWIW
DLM

Apple did not release iCop yesterday. :)

I'm sure if they can't match a song based on it's metadata, they will just tag it as unknown and leave it alone. Anything more than that would not make sense. They are not scanning each song or recording.

I would guess that if iTunes can match an Album cover to your own ripped songs, they will also be able to match your songs on iCloud with their version. I would guess they will use a similar method for matching.

neuropulse
Jun 7, 2011, 08:15 AM
"Activate and set up your device wirelessly, right out of the box."

I see the cable plugged in.

guzhogi
Jun 7, 2011, 08:20 AM
Now all they need is an accessible file system. And they could almost pass for it.

I know i am going to get downvoted for this but at the moment Android is more passable for a PC replacement then iOS. But the gap is closing.

Although, you have to remember a lot of people don't necessarily want nor need the iOS device to be a PC replacement. Maybe just a PC complement. A lot of people seem to not understand that.

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 08:33 AM
On a side note... it's Christmas here... my new MBP just showed up! Yipee! :D

rdstoll
Jun 7, 2011, 08:40 AM
"Big New Features" = the same stuff that we Android users have had for nearly two years.

Way to innovate, Apple.

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 08:41 AM
Now all they need is an accessible file system. And they could almost pass for it.

I know i am going to get downvoted for this but at the moment Android is more passable for a PC replacement then iOS. But the gap is closing.

That would be WebDAV, in Lion.

I should edit in, from what I can gather, users have a file structure like iDisk or Dropbox, and files that are pushed to/from iOS devices are pushed to directories in your account. You can manually manage the files here, which assumes you can drop files into an app's storage folder and they'll be pushed to your device. Not quite the same as having a Finder on your iPhone, but at least it's file-based, and better than the current system used in iTunes. That's just from at-a-glance though...might be better or worse in practice.

bowlerman625
Jun 7, 2011, 08:42 AM
My iPhone just got promoted to computer. ;)

lol

good point!

Jon the Heretic
Jun 7, 2011, 08:44 AM
I have been using the same AppleID for years, back when iTunes had something to do with just music. I have purchased a lot of music with it when Apple still had DRM on songs...with an iPad 2, iPod Touch and iPhone 4, I now have plenty of apps, too. Because of DRM on older songs and apps, I expect that switching to a new Apple ID would prevent me from using those songs/apps with the new AppleID. Is this true?

If this true, I have noticed from the 'Find my iPhone' feature that Apple is now requiring an Apple ID that is an email and offers no conversion from the older format to the new one. I use one AppleID with Find My iPhone and another AppleID for everything else. Kind of nuts.

I am betting dollars to doughnuts that all of the new iCloud features are going to force me to use the email-style AppleID as well. This seems to be the trend and in my experience, if it is horrifically inconvenient, it is usually true. Can anyone confirm this?

What happens to all of my apps and DRM-songs if I have to switch to a email-style AppleID??

goosnarrggh
Jun 7, 2011, 08:47 AM
Now all they need is an accessible file system. And they could almost pass for it.

I know i am going to get downvoted for this but at the moment Android is more passable for a PC replacement then iOS. But the gap is closing.

In fact, Steve Jobs has said, during yesterday's keynote, that his strategic direction is completely the opposite: He wants to aggressively downplay the significance of an accessible filesystem on PCs. He said that he and his core team have been in high level discussions with that goal in mind for the last decade.

Effectively, rather than achieving equity by evolving handheld devices into feature-compatible smaller versions of their desktop- and laptop-class cousins, Jobs has a vision where desktop- and laptop-class devices will be the ones to evolve, to become feature-compatible larger versions of their handheld cousins.

bowlerman625
Jun 7, 2011, 08:47 AM
Does this mean an iPad is now a full "pc"? Or an iPhone?

It will never be a full-PC, however that is fine. Many people do not use a full-PC as it is meant/designed to be used. For them, the full-PC is too much hardware! So, yes for many, it will be similar to the other full-PC they own.

Exciting stuff!!

dmunz
Jun 7, 2011, 08:51 AM
Apple did not release iCop yesterday. :)

I'm sure if they can't match a song based on it's metadata, they will just tag it as unknown and leave it alone. Anything more than that would not make sense. They are not scanning each song or recording.

I would guess that if iTunes can match an Album cover to your own ripped songs, they will also be able to match your songs on iCloud with their version. I would guess they will use a similar method for matching.

Interesting point about the cover art that I missed. There is bootleg cover art in the iTunes world (One example: Slowburn, Peter Gabriel at the Roxy 4/9/77) so I guess it can be done out to the iPod.

I do still wonder about them pulling the songs up to the cloud with the annual fee service. Sure they can tag it as unknown, but they will still be hosting an unlicensed item in their system.

FWIW
DLM

SAD*FACED*CLOWN
Jun 7, 2011, 08:58 AM
Smartphones have had PC-less setup since they came into existence in the 1990s. When Apple does it in 2011, it's not new, it's not innovative, and it's not a game changer. The process shown in the video looks nearly identical to what Android has had since day one - go through a wizard, enter your account information, and you're done. As soon as I enter my Google account info on a new Android phone, it instantly starts syncing my contacts, e-mail, etc. It couldn't be easier.



I hope that's sarcasm. If not, see above.



Android already has it. It also has the deep Twitter integration, cloud syncing (with Google accounts), as well as an excellent notification system that looks just like what Apple implemented.

guess you're just feeling contrary today? obviously most people on this site don't care about what Android had from day one because the implementation is crappy...I'll bet my first born Apple's cloud service will function better than Google's and Google has had theirs for how long now?

SAD*FACED*CLOWN
Jun 7, 2011, 08:59 AM
"Big New Features" = the same stuff that we Android users have had for nearly two years.

Way to innovate, Apple.

Apple's will look better work better and be better recieved than the crap Android users call an OS

yg17
Jun 7, 2011, 09:00 AM
guess you're just feeling contrary today? obviously most people on this site don't care about what Android had from day one because the implementation is crappy...I'll bet my first born Apple's cloud service will function better than Google's and Google has had theirs for how long now?

Google's cloud service works flawlessly. I entered my account information when I first got my phone, and that's it. E-mail is automatically pushed, contacts, calendars, etc, are automatically synced. It's set it and forget it.

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 09:24 AM
"Big New Features" = the same stuff that we Android users have had for nearly two years.

Way to innovate, Apple.

Was that before or after a year of only being able to handle only one touch at a time?

I could think up some more but it really doesn't matter. Choose your poison: None of them are perfect, and they all copy from one another.

macnisse
Jun 7, 2011, 09:30 AM
Looking fwd to it, seems like a smooth and simple set up! :)

KaneBaker
Jun 7, 2011, 09:32 AM
Notice the "PC Free" double-meaning? ;)

Post-PC era, folks.

Finally apple admits that they make PCs is what I see.

LizKat
Jun 7, 2011, 09:33 AM
As an aside, I also find it interesting how Apple has decided to describe iCloud in the developer APIs - they don't use the word "cloud" in the method and library names, they use "Ubiquitous" and "Ubiquity".

Your data is now ubiquitous. It is yours, and it is everywhere. It's not on any one device or in any one location. But it is yours and it is accessible all the time.

Accessible to whom is the main potential drawback of storing personal data online. I dislike mentally taking the shine off shiny new things before I even unwrap the packaging, but data security does come to mind with anything related to the cloud. It seems difficult for any enterprise to manage that line between ease of use and sufficient security :eek: for customers' data in an age when professional hackers never take a vacation. In some cases, options for increased security are not practical (for instance, a second authentication step involving text to a cellphone) depending on one's geo-location.

That's before throwing in the fine print paragraphs related to marketing, and to compliance with law enforcement.

Sandboxing data so it could only be retrieved via the related application(s) should help, although that might also prove inconvenient to the owner of the data. And, if the hacker focused on hacking the app rather than hacking into the data owner's overall piece of the cloud, then the hacker is sitting in the sandbox of that app. Extend that to hacking the iOS, then what? Your cheezburger is mine! So I would be guided by considering that anything I stash in the cloud is potentially just one clever hack away from accessible to the universe. With automatic sync options set on, make that universal read-WRITE. Would I care? That would depend on what I had elected to store in the cloud. I tell myself to imagine posting an item on the front window of the general store down in the village. If that doesn't appeal to me, then perhaps I don't want to stash it in the cloud.

Still, I admit I'm already a huge fan of having iTunes, iBook and App Store purchase history in the cloud, and so being able to grab that one song I bought on a laptop and forgot to put onto my iphone right away. Or bought on the iPad and have to remember to drag onto the laptop. The insufficient choice offered by the existing "transfer purchases" option in iTunes has caused me to just make a note when I bump into something I want to buy while using iPhone or iPad. Then I buy the item later, from my workhorse laptop that has my main iTunes library on it. So I am looking forward to buying a song on the iPad and later getting it from the cloud onto the laptop, yes indeedy :D

WestonHarvey1
Jun 7, 2011, 09:38 AM
Apple did not release iCop yesterday. :)

I'm sure if they can't match a song based on it's metadata, they will just tag it as unknown and leave it alone. Anything more than that would not make sense. They are not scanning each song or recording.

I would guess that if iTunes can match an Album cover to your own ripped songs, they will also be able to match your songs on iCloud with their version. I would guess they will use a similar method for matching.

Interesting... could I theoretically upload files with bogus metadata to score a bunch of free songs?

wovel
Jun 7, 2011, 09:42 AM
Smartphones have had PC-less setup since they came into existence in the 1990s. When Apple does it in 2011, it's not new, it's not innovative, and it's not a game changer. The process shown in the video looks nearly identical to what Android has had since day one - go through a wizard, enter your account information, and you're done. As soon as I enter my Google account info on a new Android phone, it instantly starts syncing my contacts, e-mail, etc. It couldn't be easier.



I hope that's sarcasm. If not, see above.



Android already has it. It also has the deep Twitter integration, cloud syncing (with Google accounts), as well as an excellent notification system that looks just like what Apple implemented.

It is a game changer because all of those features are now available on a platform with a viable App market and Harcware people want. That is the bottom line. When an Android phone becomes competitive to the two year old 3GS, let us know. PS your phone won't run Android 4. My phone will run iOS 6.

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 09:45 AM
Accessible to whom is the main potential drawback of storing personal data online. I dislike mentally taking the shine off shiny new things before I even unwrap the packaging, but data security does come to mind with anything related to the cloud. It seems difficult for any enterprise to manage that line between ease of use and sufficient security :eek: for customers' data in an age when professional hackers never take a vacation. In some cases, options for increased security are not practical (for instance, a second authentication step involving text to a cellphone) depending on one's geo-location.

That's before throwing in the fine print paragraphs related to marketing, and to compliance with law enforcement.

Sandboxing data so it could only be retrieved via the related application(s) should help, although that might also prove inconvenient to the owner of the data. And, if the hacker focused on hacking the app rather than hacking into the data owner's overall piece of the cloud, then the hacker is sitting in the sandbox of that app. Extend that to hacking the iOS, then what? Your cheezburger is mine! So I would be guided by considering that anything I stash in the cloud is potentially just one clever hack away from accessible to the universe. With automatic sync options set on, make that universal read-WRITE. Would I care? That would depend on what I had elected to store in the cloud. I tell myself to imagine posting an item on the front window of the general store down in the village. If that doesn't appeal to me, then perhaps I don't want to stash it in the cloud.

Still, I admit I'm already a huge fan of having iTunes, iBook and App Store purchase history in the cloud, and so being able to grab that one song I bought on a laptop and forgot to put onto my iphone right away. Or bought on the iPad and have to remember to drag onto the laptop. The insufficient choice offered by the existing "transfer purchases" option in iTunes has caused me to just make a note when I bump into something I want to buy while using iPhone or iPad. Then I buy the item later, from my workhorse laptop that has my main iTunes library on it. So I am looking forward to buying a song on the iPad and later getting it from the cloud onto the laptop, yes indeedy :D

Understandable concerns, but the truly paranoid among us should refrain from connecting our computers to the internet at all for fear of hackers and thieves :)

The API is a tunnel - an application can only see it's own data. Hacking your online account is a different story, but them's the risks you take with anything you do online, as PSN users now know. There's an important logistic to consider in that case anyhow; the amount of data that is stored in cloud storage is vast -- anyone who hacks a cloud has got to be looking for something in particular, because there's no way in hell they can just take everything they see. Hacking someone's personal computer is much more appealing, because you know where to look for the juicy stuff, and I'm pretty sure I'd be more interested in juicy stuff than your collection of photos and music playlists.

But hey, hackers are creative and the more popular the target, the bigger the bullseye. You just got to cross your fingers these days!

Yvan256
Jun 7, 2011, 09:51 AM
Interesting... could I theoretically upload files with bogus metadata to score a bunch of free songs?

That's what I was wondering. If the play time is exactly the same and the metadata is exactly the same... but I seem to remember something about "audio signature", which is similar to an MD6 signature of your file. If the audio in your file doesn't match the file in the iTunes Store, then it's bogus.

And that signature would probably only be a few kilobytes each, making uploading for verification quite fast.

samcraig
Jun 7, 2011, 09:52 AM
Understandable concerns, but the truly paranoid among us should refrain from connecting our computers to the internet at all for fear of hackers and thieves :)

The API is a tunnel - an application can only see it's own data. Hacking your online account is a different story, but them's the risks you take with anything you do online, as PSN users now know. There's an important logistic to consider in that case anyhow; the amount of data that is stored in cloud storage is vast -- anyone who hacks a cloud has got to be looking for something in particular, because there's no way in hell they can just take everything they see. Hacking someone's personal computer is much more appealing, because you know where to look for the juicy stuff, and I'm pretty sure I'd be more interested in juicy stuff than your collection of photos and music playlists.

But hey, hackers are creative and the more popular the target, the bigger the bullseye. You just got to cross your fingers these days!

It sounds like the new APIs (and I could be wrong) aren't just a tunnel to ITS app. Afterall - doesn't it make more sense that if I have a photo, I can paste it into a document. And if I have a document - couldn't I open it up in more than one App?

App Data is of great security concern. Games might not be an issue. But what about an app like Starbucks where it stores your card/payment. Apple suggested that ALL Data gets backed up in the iCloud so if you switch devices, you can just download and go on your merry way.

That increases security issues - and none of that was discussed. I am sure it's in the new EULA.

I also mentioned before in a few posts the question of ownership of data put into the iCloud.

There was great hoopla over location data not only staying on your device for a long time - but that the file was so big. Apple "fixed" that - but doesn't that all become moot now since when you sync to the iCloud, you've just given Apple's permission to grab that data?

Will syncing be all encompassing - or will you get to choose on an app by app bases which shares data and which doesn't? time will tell...

mcmlxix
Jun 7, 2011, 09:54 AM
Now all they need is an accessible file system. And they could almost pass for it.

Steve said that for the past 10 years they were trying to figure out how to get rid of the file system.

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 10:05 AM
It sounds like the new APIs (and I could be wrong) aren't just a tunnel to ITS app. Afterall - doesn't it make more sense that if I have a photo, I can paste it into a document. And if I have a document - couldn't I open it up in more than one App?

App Data is of great security concern. Games might not be an issue. But what about an app like Starbucks where it stores your card/payment. Apple suggested that ALL Data gets backed up in the iCloud so if you switch devices, you can just download and go on your merry way.

That increases security issues - and none of that was discussed. I am sure it's in the new EULA.

I also mentioned before in a few posts the question of ownership of data put into the iCloud.

There was great hoopla over location data not only staying on your device for a long time - but that the file was so big. Apple "fixed" that - but doesn't that all become moot now since when you sync to the iCloud, you've just given Apple's permission to grab that data?

Will syncing be all encompassing - or will you get to choose on an app by app bases which shares data and which doesn't? time will tell...

I expect some kinds of data can be accessed by all apps - much the same way the photos and contacts are exposed by iOS. There is a file system on the cloud - the docs have a series of guidelines for storing data, some of these mention document folders, and explain that users can delete data manually from the cloud, which suggests there may also be a public/ area... public to other apps, or other people, who knows. I'm sure they've considered security anyway - be a waste of a billion+ dollars if not ;)

Either way, we'll all be better off for reading the small print before committing anything sensitive to the cloud. Not sure that credit card type info would be uploaded...that's a pretty legally iffy area.

Edit: personally, I wouldn't put my credit card details into an app that orders coffee :)

samcraig
Jun 7, 2011, 10:15 AM
Either way, we'll all be better off for reading the small print before committing anything sensitive to the cloud. Not sure that credit card type info would be uploaded...that's a pretty legally iffy area.

Edit: personally, I wouldn't put my credit card details into an app that orders coffee :)

Either would I. But people do. And according to the keynote - App and App Data gets uploaded when synced. So until we have first hand experiences on that - I guess we won't have an answer for certain. But unfortunately - my inclination is that sensitive data can/will be uploaded to the cloud.

Also - will each app have a pop up to have you OK this process? I am not praising nor admonishing Android - but it's my understanding that such accesses in Android have a warning screen. Or will Apple go the seamless "hidden" route?

No doubt there will be a feature curve as well. Things released with OS 5.0/iCloud 1.0 will probably morph as usage increases/sensitivities and lines are crossed...

Digital Skunk
Jun 7, 2011, 10:32 AM
I don't know how that's true... storing in the cloud just means enhanced connectivity and automatic syncing, but your files are still being stored somewhere... and only access to the file system will give you direct access to those files...

What if you have lots of files you want to organize or categorize? Every computer since MSDOS has had a simple way to do this... called folders... except for ios devices...

What if you want to simply duplicate some files? Sure, some apps let you do this... but some don't. Half the point of a file system (and the program that accomplishes this, like Finder) is that you get independent and complete control over your files. Simple concept. But one that's missing from ios.

And what if you want to open a specific file type with multiple apps? Only some apps let you do this. For others, you need to duplicate that file in multiple apps. Ridiculous! On a real computer... you can open file x with 100 different programs!

For the ios devices to truly succeed in the long run (in terms of competing with real computers and becoming truly independent platforms), they will need a file system someday.

I agree about the filesystems described, but the application for cloud based computing would be different.

Google Docs lets you do what you've described without having file system based organization method. Picasa is another example.

A general user would want to create a document/file have access to it, edit it, and send it to someone else and/or save the changes. All of those things can be done without a filesystem.

Even if a user wanted to move the doc/file offline they could with the current cloud based system.

The only thing missing from the cloud computing mix is (as you have said and I agree with) having the file open with multiple apps or apps not located in the cloud . . . Photoshop for example.

But iOS wasn't built for that kind of heavy lifting.

Access Files
Edit Files
Save Files
Send Files kind of thing.

res1233
Jun 7, 2011, 10:39 AM
Now all they need is an accessible file system. And they could almost pass for it.

I know i am going to get downvoted for this but at the moment Android is more passable for a PC replacement then iOS. But the gap is closing.

Having to access the filesystem to access the files you need is a flaw with the system, not a feature. Filesystems are often filled with a ton of clutter that the average user wouldn't know what to do with. The app should be responsible for presenting to you all the files you need, without a filesystem, and that is exactly what most apps do on iOS. I really don't see the need for a full filesystem for anyone but us geeks. Sure, I'd like it, but I really don't need it.

Certinfy
Jun 7, 2011, 10:41 AM
But it needs an internet connection to activate? :confused:

dmunz
Jun 7, 2011, 10:54 AM
Interesting point about the cover art that I missed. There is bootleg cover art in the iTunes world (One example: Slowburn, Peter Gabriel at the Roxy 4/9/77) so I guess it can be done out to the iPod.

I do still wonder about them pulling the songs up to the cloud with the annual fee service. Sure they can tag it as unknown, but they will still be hosting an unlicensed item in their system.

FWIW
DLM

Nevermind, my bad.

I just figgured this out. The new service doesn't actually upload anything from your computer; it only matches what you have with what is in the great iTunes master file and lets you download a copy of thier version. So, if the bootleg recording is not there it is just passed over and you have to sync it the old fashond way.

If it is there on the onther hand... :rolleyes:

FWIW
DLM

ilfn143
Jun 7, 2011, 10:59 AM
And I bet you love the regular updates to your OS too. Oh wait... sorry. :p

Yes i do :) i'm running 2.3.4 from xda forum ;)

fat phil
Jun 7, 2011, 10:59 AM
Either would I. But people do. And according to the keynote - App and App Data gets uploaded when synced. So until we have first hand experiences on that - I guess we won't have an answer for certain. But unfortunately - my inclination is that sensitive data can/will be uploaded to the cloud.

Also - will each app have a pop up to have you OK this process? I am not praising nor admonishing Android - but it's my understanding that such accesses in Android have a warning screen. Or will Apple go the seamless "hidden" route?

No doubt there will be a feature curve as well. Things released with OS 5.0/iCloud 1.0 will probably morph as usage increases/sensitivities and lines are crossed...

Pop-ups... you have to inform users of the nature of any data that will be uploaded to the cloud, and give them the opportunity to disable it, just as you you have to ask if you want to allow an app to accept Push messages or share your location. The reasons are as much to do with not wanting to fill the cloud with garbage (or use it as a free data cache) as to do with security. I fully expect there'll be a fair few developers complaining because their App was rejected for trying to upload data surreptitiously :)

Apple at least have the benefit of having made mistakes with this stuff in the past, so should have a bit more wisdom to work with on how to treat privacy & security going forward.

b166er
Jun 7, 2011, 11:33 AM
Okay... let's set the record straight. Statements like "Android had this sense it's inception" is wrong. The first commercial Android based phone, which came out over a year after the first iPhone, was an abortion of a phone. Horrible. It was very half baked. But, like many phone OS makers out there, it changed and everyone went to school on each other and all the phone OS's have been changing and getting better.

So please.... Google and Android was not the phone Demi-god from the beginning. They have done a great job (better than any other phone OS by far) of keeping the innovation going. But, they too went to school on Apple in the beginning.

Now... back to the matter at hand... Apple products... this is the Apple forum you know. :)

Also, Android was not the first to do this either. I had a blackberry before iPhones or Androids even existed. It had over the air updates. Given they were few and far between, but I never plugged it in to a computer to set up and all my updates came over the air on my data connection. Sure things have come a long way since then, phones are better, updates are bigger, but the concept was around before the iPhone/Androids.

thirteen1031
Jun 7, 2011, 12:04 PM
At first this seemed like it would make my job a lot easier but I suppose people sharing iTunes accounts would end up identical in every other way huh? I suppose that is against the user agreement anyway though is it not?
Not according to the Keynote. Up to 10 authorized devices can share the music.

And I think this is very much what Apple was going for and waiting for as it took the slow road to untethering its devices. Sharing music legally across a certain number of devices, as well as apps, books, magazines--all that stuff that people buy and that companies (owners of the apps, books, magazines, music) might object to having "shared" across devices. Like copying a movie or ripping a CD for a friend, the friend didn't pay for it and the movie maker/songwriter doesn't get any money for that copy you gave the friend.

I could be wrong here, but I suspect that Apple had to convince all these companies that untethering the devices, sharing from a Cloud rather than from an authorized computer hub, wouldn't lead to pirating. I'm not surprised they lagged behind in this given that they want the Cloud to instantly share books and magazines as well as music, apps, photos and documents. That's a lot of convincing to do.

Popeye206
Jun 7, 2011, 12:36 PM
Yes i do :) i'm running 2.3.4 from xda forum ;)

LOL! And the average consumer is going to do this how?

Why do all the Android geeks think everyone is a geek? :rolleyes:

ilfn143
Jun 7, 2011, 01:05 PM
LOL! And the average consumer is going to do this how?

Why do all the Android geeks think everyone is a geek? :rolleyes:

:) if the average consumer want regular software update they have that option. like iphone, if the average consumer want to do more with their phone they have jailbreak ;)

the8thark
Jun 7, 2011, 01:30 PM
Apple is calling these Post-PC (as in any personal computer) devices.
Every time I hear people say "Post PC" I just laugh. People are not getting rid of their PC's. They are just moving from desktop's to notebooks and now to tablets and other devices. All of these are PCs. People are challenging what we view a PC as. In the past it was only a screen and a physical keyboard. But now tablets etc are in the mix.

All of these are a PC. Heck a calculator from the 1980's is a PC. It has a screen, an input method via the number pad and you can tell it to do stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer
A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end-user with no intervening computer operator.
And this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer
A computer is a programmable machine designed to sequentially and automatically carry out a sequence of arithmetic or logical operations.

So under those statements the iOS devices are computers. You could argue to have no intervening computer operator you needed to cut the itunes cord. Well that's done now. So they are all PCs.

So if anyone says an iOS device is a "Post PC" device, I will say nope. it's just a different kind of PC.


No matter what else you call it, a Mac is a PC. ;-)
Just like the iOS devices are also PCs. Just mobile ones.

MacFly123
Jun 7, 2011, 01:42 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)I really hope they just keep it as a unified app like it is now. It works great. I wish they could bring the unified approach to the touch instead

That is what I have thought for a long time too but apparently they are going the other way. It does make some sense and at least it will be uniform now.

splashnader
Jun 7, 2011, 01:58 PM
Am I the only one that likes using iTunes on my computer to setup my iPhone. I have always preferred the approach.

blackpond
Jun 7, 2011, 02:19 PM
Why do y'all all welcome the Post-PC era so readily? In one to two generations you could have kids growing up with no knowledge of how the dumb terminals/technology they use works.

This is utter nonsense. Do you think a child growing up in the 1990's understood the intricacies of all the IC chips in that beige box on the floor any more than they do the ones inside an iPad today?

A youth today is empowered to the nth degree by Apple/Android API's and app stores. I only wish I was lucky enough to have grown up in a world where I was three months (or less) of development away from a software market of millions standing by with credit card in hand.

mikejd1
Jun 8, 2011, 08:10 AM
Am I the only one that likes using iTunes on my computer to setup my iPhone. I have always preferred the approach.

?

stelligent
Jun 8, 2011, 10:32 AM
Here's a nice aggregate of various sites providing first impressions of iOS 5: http://bit.ly/muP59t. To sum up, lots of awe inspired!