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MacRumors
Jun 8, 2011, 05:11 PM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/08/onlive-announces-ipad-support-for-cloud-gaming/)


http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/D340F6BD-E148-4E65-A33F-0F31879A91FA.jpeg.scaled1000-500x373.jpg

(http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/D340F6BD-E148-4E65-A33F-0F31879A91FA.jpeg.scaled1000.jpg)
At E3 this week, OnLive (http://www.onlive.com/) announced (http://www.onlive.com/corporate/press_releases/onlive-unveils-ipad-android-tablet-that-far-outperforms-new-consoles) the coming of an iPad client App for the OnLive gaming service.OnLive is pleased to announce the OnLive Player App for iPad and Android. Like the recently announced consoles, the OnLive Player App will enable gameplay of virtually all OnLive games on an iPad and Android tablet with touch or OnLive's new Universal Wireless Controller.We previously covered (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/17/onlives-gaming-on-demand-service-demoed-on-an-ipad/) OnLive demoing this as a "tech demo" but it seems they've progressed to a final product. OnLive has already delivered a viewer app (http://appshopper.com/entertainment/onlive-viewer) so iPad users can watch live games. Today's announcement, however, extends that to actual gameplay from your iPad.

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OnLive delivers console-quality games to Macs, PCs, your TV (and now your iPad) by remotely streaming the game from their central servers. The customer's home computer need not be fast enough to render high resolution graphics -- instead it simply has to play back what amounts to a video stream of the game, while user controls are sent back to the central server.

We spoke to TouchArcade's Eli Hodapp who had a chance to demo the new system which he said worked "amazingly well". The OnLive iPad client will offer a visual overlay so customers can control games using on-screen touch controls to replace the usual physical controller. They also are giving developers the opportunity to implement actual touch/swipe controls as seen in the video above. Finally, OnLive will be offering a physical game controller (photo above) that communicates directly to the iPad through wireless bluetooth. The physical controller is optional but significantly improves the gaming experience. Hodapp described the entire package as a "game changer". OnLive has not yet announced pricing for the optional controller, and had no comment about an iPhone version in the future.

This app seems like it would be find perfect usage for iOS 5's new AirPlay mirroring that would allow you to display the game on your HDTV.

Article Link: OnLive Announces iPad Support for Cloud Gaming with Optional Bluetooth Controller (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/08/onlive-announces-ipad-support-for-cloud-gaming/)



ThunderSkunk
Jun 8, 2011, 05:20 PM
Very clever, and potentially really cool in concept...

But the lengths devs have to go to in order to shoehorn their functionality into iOS is getting a little ridiculous. Having to stream video of the game over wifi back from a remote server, because the bluetooth stack is lacking, having to stream video of your macbooks external display because the USB bus is off-limits...

Kick the family off Netflix, make no skype calls, god forbid someone gets on the web or gets an email, all so you can enjoy a low framerate video stream. And now, constant cloud syncing! Wifi is just not that robust.

I really hoped Apple would have this dialed in iOS5.

Hastings101
Jun 8, 2011, 05:24 PM
That's really neat

cRuNcHiE
Jun 8, 2011, 05:24 PM
Considering the lag I get from using vnc to my pc over local wifi, I can't see this being any use surely

moneyman118
Jun 8, 2011, 05:25 PM
A true jump in to the "console" market. Imagine Black Opps or MWW streamed to your TV from an iPad or iPhone using a controller.

Flaming begins in 1.2.3..

DustinT
Jun 8, 2011, 05:33 PM
HOLY LAG BATMAN!

Bluetooth to iPad to wireless router to Onlive server back to wireless router to iPad to wireless to Apple TV to actual TV. Rinse and repeat.

WTH? That would be awful!

KylePowers
Jun 8, 2011, 05:39 PM
I think Apple just needs to come up with a first party controller solution.

I realize they hate buttons, but with all the good games out (and only getting better) and external display options (wired, wireless), I think a sleek controller is the next logical step. It's really only the last thing that separates an iPad from a 360/PS3 (to an extent, of course).

gorgeousninja
Jun 8, 2011, 05:40 PM
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Well contrary to the doom-mongers and naysayers...this looks (in theory).. fantastic.

nagromme
Jun 8, 2011, 05:41 PM
That would be one crazy (but kind of cool) gaming setup:

Bluetooth console pad -> iPad -> Internet -> OnLive -> Remote game hardware -> Internet -> iPad -> AirPLay -> TV

I think Apple just needs to come up with a first party controller solution.

I realize they hate buttons, but with all the good games out (and only getting better) and external display options (wired, wireless), I think a sleek controller is the next logical step. It's really only the last thing that separates an iPad from a 360/PS3 (to an extent, of course).

First-party or third-party, either way would be great if devs can agree to support it. It’s amazing that the iOS games market can be so huge, and yet no such accessory has succeeded in the market. I realize the demand for a physical controller is just a small niche (full of people who think it’s a huge niche) but look at some of the other weird niche accessories out there!

JackAxe
Jun 8, 2011, 05:48 PM
A true jump in to the "console" market. Imagine Black Opps or MWW streamed to your TV from an iPad or iPhone using a controller.

Flaming begins in 1….2….3…..

There's no reason at all to go through any iOS device to get to the TV, when OnLive can be plugged directly into it.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 8, 2011, 05:49 PM
Can't wait for this to hit jailbroken AppleTVs.

roadbloc
Jun 8, 2011, 05:50 PM
Impressive. Shame my internet isn't fast enough for OnLive.

iCrizzo
Jun 8, 2011, 05:52 PM
This is awesome.. OnLive looks cool, too bad companies like Comcast will ruin it for everyone with the shrinking bandwidth caps!!!

Dagless
Jun 8, 2011, 05:58 PM
The great thing about OnLive is that the tech is great and they're really hitting all the right notes.
The terrible thing about OnLive is the lag, that is even present on 40mbps, low ping connections.

*LTD*
Jun 8, 2011, 05:59 PM
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It's all coming together, folks. Stay tuned for more post-PC era goodness.

Sunday Ironfoot
Jun 8, 2011, 06:01 PM
The latency issues would concern me, especially with any fast paced action games (racing and FPS's in particular). Even if you got around 100ms latency, it would be enough to be noticeable to the gamer and potentially effect your enjoyment of the game.

Pman17
Jun 8, 2011, 06:04 PM
I like it! It pulls the middle finger at Nintendo's Wii U.

GFLPraxis
Jun 8, 2011, 06:05 PM
HOLY LAG BATMAN!

Bluetooth to iPad to wireless router to Onlive server back to wireless router to iPad to wireless to Apple TV to actual TV. Rinse and repeat.

WTH? That would be awful!

It'll be fine for strategic FPS or an RTS like Starcraft that is more about space management than frame precision.

Will be completely useless for fighting games in any competitive fashion.

Dagless
Jun 8, 2011, 06:14 PM
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It's all coming together, folks. Stay tuned for more post-PC era goodness.

I trust you know that OnLive is the worst way to play games? It's not considered better than "PC gaming", it's a way for people with older/cheaper hardware to play new games.

Sunday Ironfoot
Jun 8, 2011, 06:21 PM
According to this article http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-onlive-lag-analysis the latency is around 150-200ms with "the fastest internet connection they could find"

kiljoy616
Jun 8, 2011, 06:27 PM
So except for a small amount of people with good connection like I use to have in California this idea has "potentiating" but limited for now. Maybe Google will give us all 100GB internet soon. I know the cable companies will never do that.:mad:

Xenc
Jun 8, 2011, 06:29 PM
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According to this article http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-onlive-lag-analysis the latency is around 150-200ms with "the fastest internet connection they could find"

I may be mistaken, but Eurogamer tested the service from the UK. OnLive is an exciting product and, with the right ISP partnerships, could turn into something great.

PowerGamerX
Jun 8, 2011, 06:35 PM
I trust you know that OnLive is the worst way to play games? It's not considered better than "PC gaming", it's a way for people with older/cheaper hardware to play new games.

This, and it works well provided you have the internet connection to support it. I recently purchased a playpack subscription. It's nice to play some new games with a keyboard and mouse, even if there is a tiny bit of latency. It also helps me get around having to boot into Windows to play a game.

toddybody
Jun 8, 2011, 06:48 PM
It'll be fine for strategic FPS or an RTS like Starcraft that is more about space management than frame precision.

Will be completely useless for fighting games in any competitive fashion.

Eh, perhaps.

Im an avid SC2 player (PC), and even the occasional Battlenet lag is UBER frustrating in player matches.

From what ive heard about OnLive's responsiveness, I wouldnt want to use it for anything pvp.

NameUndecided
Jun 8, 2011, 06:48 PM
I'm speaking as somebody who isn't a gamer -- I've played around with OnLive on my MacBook off and on since the beginning of this year, and I'm really impressed with it. I've also got a good connection and I've not tried it anywhere else but at home. But since it works for me, I'm pleased.

I also don't install games on my computer and play them that way, and I also don't own any consoles, so I've no argument for anyone who plays games more often and can more easily see the differences in quality. But to me it looks and plays great, and it will be fun to see the technology improve over the years.

ravenvii
Jun 8, 2011, 07:07 PM
Very clever, and potentially really cool in concept...

But the lengths devs have to go to in order to shoehorn their functionality into iOS is getting a little ridiculous. Having to stream video of the game over wifi back from a remote server, because the bluetooth stack is lacking, having to stream video of your macbooks external display because the USB bus is off-limits...

Kick the family off Netflix, make no skype calls, god forbid someone gets on the web or gets an email, all so you can enjoy a low framerate video stream. And now, constant cloud syncing! Wifi is just not that robust.

I really hoped Apple would have this dialed in iOS5.

Um, wow.

It's just a hunch, but I suspect you understand none of how this works.

Reach9
Jun 8, 2011, 07:11 PM
This won't be working anytime soon unfortunately. I can only imagine how much it will lag over Wi-Fi, and i guess it'll be US only.

Cloud Gaming will run a huge smack across Microsft, Sony and Nintendo and their consoles. Where would Microsoft their revenue from if Xbox and it's services will be destroyed due to OnLive? How much would the games be charged if it's just being streamed?
I don't see OnLive coming to fruition in the near future, this technology is years and years before it's time. Something like Blu Ray.

bluemonkeyguy
Jun 8, 2011, 07:11 PM
seems promising for the cost. lets take an average joe with no console. if he bought a console and kept buying about 2-3 games a year, that sums to $500+ initially with a residual $200+ a year. with onlive its $120 a year so cost-wise this would be the smart thing.

But as a heavy gamer, i pay for quality and for little to no latency. Well i have fast internet and will try the demo on my mac, i'll comeback to let you know how it was. BTW my location is arizona so we'll see how bad the latency is.

dugbug
Jun 8, 2011, 07:59 PM
I don't see OnLive coming to fruition in the near future, this technology is years and years before it's time. Something like Blu Ray.

Its not beta, its here now. You can play games through the service on say, a macbook air, or a netbook, etc. over wifi or wired.

They have maybe a 100 games now.

Its a good but not great service, I don't want to make it bigger than it is. There are a lot of reasons folks reading this forum may want to try it out:

1. The mac player is nice and runs on an air. There is also an ipad "viewer" (you cannot play games, but you can observe them) but by this post it sounds like they are finally bringing the ipad into a full onlive citizen.
2. You don't require windows to play games that you otherwise would have to boot into
3. There is nothing to download/install. You literally just click on the game you want to play and it starts. No PATCHING, no DRIVER issues, no PERFORMANCE requirements, no DOWNLOADING and INSTALLING, etc.
4. 30 minutes of free play time for most games to see if you want to buy it or not (this is the best part, really!)
5. In the US, latency is anywhere from near imperceptible to bad. They have server farms in a few places around the US to help out. I think one is in DC for the southeast.

You can always try onlive out for free and see. With my internet setup I find it great for something like an RPG but don't fare well with twitch shooters.

Hope this helps

term1nal
Jun 8, 2011, 08:27 PM
Ive just tried it and loving the concept and the price aint too shabby for abit of casual gaming. Tried it on my old mac book pro core2 over wifi from here in the Uk n worked alot better than expected. But what it really needs is:

1. Decentralised servers and tie ups with isp's so ur hitting it on ur first hop.
2. Wouldnt take much to build the controller hardware into a smart tv.
3. More up to date titles. Or more games specifically written/ported for this platform n its limitations.

On the positive at least ur not having to put up with aload of jtag monkeys

**** must have read my mind ****
Coming to uk www.onlive.co.uk says in blurb play games from ipad. Also deals in works for Tv n set top integration.

Hodapp
Jun 8, 2011, 09:03 PM
This won't be working anytime soon unfortunately. I can only imagine how much it will lag over Wi-Fi, and i guess it'll be US only.

Cloud Gaming will run a huge smack across Microsft, Sony and Nintendo and their consoles. Where would Microsoft their revenue from if Xbox and it's services will be destroyed due to OnLive? How much would the games be charged if it's just being streamed?
I don't see OnLive coming to fruition in the near future, this technology is years and years before it's time. Something like Blu Ray.

What are you talking about? I've been gaming on OnLive for months, and personally spent a considerable amount of time with OnLive on the iPad today at E3 and it works great. They only really need to maintain a ping under 80ms for the whole setup to work, which really isn't that outlandish for most broadband connections these days.

Sackvillenb
Jun 8, 2011, 09:04 PM
This is AWESOME!!!!

As long as it actually works well, with no lag (or at least minimal tolerable lag),
and if it costs a reasonable price. I suppose the games will have to be good! But it's a great idea... we'll just have to see if it actually works, and I hope it does.

shurcooL
Jun 8, 2011, 09:46 PM
I agree with everything in the news post, except I wouldn't add AirPlay to the mix. You can just hook up the iPad 2 directly via HDMI and avoid that extra latency.

Speaking about latency, here's a nice interview (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/306236/news/id-softwares-john-carmack-20-minute-video-interview/) with John Carmack. He talks about latency and OnLive specifically at the 15 minute mark. Bottom line, he's optimistic about it and he knows his stuff.

ziggyonice
Jun 8, 2011, 10:06 PM
Believe it or not, I've tried it and it works fantastically.

The service may be fairly new, but even on a mediocre five year old MacBook Pro, it has a fast response time and the image and sound is perfect.

I really hope OnLive takes off and really gets a larger selection of games. It's such a cool concept.

gman901
Jun 8, 2011, 10:13 PM
I use Onlive and really like it! I think it is a great compliment with the MacBook Air, especially the more graphic intensive games. It's nice to have a gaming option if I decide to upgrade to the SB Airs with the weaker IGP.

palebluedot
Jun 8, 2011, 10:36 PM
This is more enjoyable than PC gaming... how? Just because everyone is obsessed with this "post-PC era" concept? :rolleyes: I'll stick with Steam! That said, having options is always good. I just hope this doesn't mess with game devs conceptualization of games like Team Fortress 2 and L4D2.

term1nal
Jun 8, 2011, 11:11 PM
[QUOTE=palebluedot;12719359]This is more enjoyable than PC gaming... how?

Because you dont lay down 200 on the latest graphics card only to find out those lazy good for nothing herberts havent even got decent driver support for it yet! :mad:

Its not they havent got surround sound n chat is beta ..... But ur mac mini n ur Apple Tv will still be streaming 720p/1080p n thats all this is, an interactive video stream.

So potentially a 99 Apple tv with icloud office apps n icloud games n icloud movies n icloud music, would be all most peeps would require.
Until the 15 computer comes along:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ7N4rycsy4

term1nal
Jun 8, 2011, 11:12 PM
:apple:

ChazUK
Jun 8, 2011, 11:24 PM
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I may be mistaken, but Eurogamer tested the service from the UK. OnLive is an exciting product and, with the right ISP partnerships, could turn into something great.

The fact they've partnered with BT makes me ultra sad, and that's me talking as a BT user.
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/5/13/bt-gets-exclusive-rights-to-onlive-in-uk/

BT are useless. :(

Hodapp
Jun 9, 2011, 12:26 AM
I posted some additional stuff on this over at TouchArcade- http://toucharcade.com/2011/06/09/onlive-ipad/

Sol
Jun 9, 2011, 01:03 AM
With this and AirPlay Mirroring we would essentially have a next-gen games system on the Apple TV. Hopefully the service will become available in Australia soon.

jmpnop
Jun 9, 2011, 02:29 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

It's all coming together, folks. Stay tuned for more post-PC era goodness.

PCs will never go. There's still a lot of things that need "real computers". Business, audio/video editing and many other fields require more than just fancy tablets. Tablets are consumption devices, they are not meant to do work. PCs and tablets in this aspect are entirely different, it doesn't make sense to call tablets post-PC era.

AAPLaday
Jun 9, 2011, 03:33 AM
The amount of data it requires to use onlive is ridiculous. People are going to hit their data monthly caps in about a week!

CplBadboy
Jun 9, 2011, 03:35 AM
Ive been banging aon about this concept for ages - using a proper controller to play games on either the Apple TV or iPad and it seems onlive have beaten Apple to the pass with this concept. If Apple wants to really rule the gaming fraternity then it needs to supply the hardware (controllers) to enable gamers to play the likes of COD or BF on iOS devices.

The above games do not play or offer any sense of control when played on a bloody touch screen.

As soon as Apple delivers this concept world wide or indeed onlive deliver it then I will indeed sell my PS3 and Xbox. Sometimes I think Apple convince themselves that just because people by the little 2.99 or 59p games on the App store - and by nature millions of people have these so why not by something cheap- that they rule the gaming industry. Truth is if Apple did then no one would be buying 360's and PS3'3 Wiis etc to satisfy that massive void Apple cant fill.

I predict that after onlives demo Apple will be purchasing them and somewhere down the line Apple will listen to the gaming community and bring a more serious gaming platform through the likes of Apple TV. Now that would be awesome. A little box that is tiny, delivering content like movies, my music and other services XBL style and that gamers are familiar with. Apple are missing out on a huge market by ignoring its gaming users.

DennisVR
Jun 9, 2011, 04:09 AM
I can't imagine it not suffering from lag, but i see the potential. I'm watching this space.

dr Dunkel
Jun 9, 2011, 05:37 AM
Yeah, this could work, for action packed games like... well... chess?

Time to get real. This will not work. I need instant response and at least 40-50 fps for casual gaming.

term1nal
Jun 9, 2011, 05:42 AM
just done a quick calc using activity monitor on bandwidth usage est. 850KB/s or 3.5GB/h if the conversion site i used was correct.n thats before surround sound n chat gets introduced.......

So local isp servers n all u can eat data plan.....

term1nal
Jun 9, 2011, 05:49 AM
Yeah, this could work, for action packed games like... well... chess?

Hey lets not forget solitaire, mine sweeper and sudoku!!! Man freakking AWESOME!

Unless u get the agreements with local isps n even then its never gonna takeover from consoles etc but for certain casual games this does have some legs

Now who wants a game of Tic Tac Toe??

jonnysods
Jun 9, 2011, 08:11 AM
Yikes, using it through an internet connection?

I'm sure this could be modified in the future. But it's a great concept!

Dagless
Jun 9, 2011, 08:16 AM
The amount of data it requires to use onlive is ridiculous. People are going to hit their data monthly caps in about a week!

Yup, that and the image is poorly compressed, lacks the colours and vibrancy that "regular" games have and only runs at 30fps 720p. All that for 400-700mb/hour.
Does it support surround sound yet? It wasn't when I tried it... sounded like 96kbps to boot.

kevinmmccormick
Jun 9, 2011, 09:57 AM
I am an avid OnLive user and this is awesome news. I have 15mbps FIOS and have a very good experience with OnLive. Picture quality is excellent and the OnLive controller is also very good. Well made with nice button placement. Having it on the iPad will be cool to say the least.

If you have the proper setup, then OnLive does add about a 40ms lag. For most games, this is very acceptable.

One thing to remember with OnLive is that when you are playing a multiplayer match, there is also an extreme REDUCTION and consistency of in-game lag (the one that is reported by the game on the leader board) by nature of the fact that the OnLive game servers (say, for Homefront) and the game clients are sitting right next to each other in a server room. In-game lag is almost always very low.

For me, I'm looking at a total lag of about 80ms for multiplayer games, and 40ms for single player games. You can decide for yourself if that is good enough for you to play. For me, that is totally fine and a quick google search for "average latency game" reveals many gamers playing in the same range.

maclaptop
Jun 9, 2011, 10:05 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

It's all coming together, folks. Stay tuned for more post-PC era goodness.

Those who only believe the words out of Jobs mouth, will be in for a rude awakening as he departs.

History has taught us that without Jerry Garcia & the Grateful Dead...it was mere months as the "Dead Heads" had no where to turn, and no one to think for them.

iFans today, are Google Android Lovers of the future.

fswmacguy
Jun 9, 2011, 12:21 PM
Wouldn't this service require a very high fidelity connection? I couldn't imagine playing something like this on DSL. Seems like users would need a very fast connection at all times.

ActionableMango
Jun 9, 2011, 06:39 PM
I'm not so interested in OnLive so much as I am just in the controller.

A decent wireless controller that works with iOS devices and existing games would be fantastic!

rodriguise
Jun 9, 2011, 10:20 PM
I trust you know that OnLive is the worst way to play games? It's not considered better than "PC gaming", it's a way for people with older/cheaper hardware to play new games.

In your opinion. Which fortunately for OnLive is meaningless. Onlive works great for me, my kids play the various lego series all the time with no issues. Sure it won't play Crysis, but last time I checked graphics still weren't everything. This is definitely a step up from Angry Birds.

Sol
Jun 9, 2011, 11:09 PM
In your opinion. Which fortunately for OnLive is meaningless. Onlive works great for me, my kids play the various lego series all the time with no issues. Sure it won't play Crysis, but last time I checked graphics still weren't everything. This is definitely a step up from Angry Birds.

No reason why it would not play Crysis. The idea is that you don't have to own a great PC to play the latest games, as long as they are available on the service.

Expect anyone who invested hundreds of dollars on their PCs to regard OnLive with derision. These people feel like they have to justify their expenses by dismissing the cheaper alternative.

aristotle
Jun 10, 2011, 01:02 PM
Those who only believe the words out of Jobs mouth, will be in for a rude awakening as he departs.

History has taught us that without Jerry Garcia & the Grateful Dead...it was mere months as the "Dead Heads" had no where to turn, and no one to think for them.

iFans today, are Google Android Lovers of the future.
How much does Google pay you to come here and astroturf for them?

I will not trade my privacy for "free" services. Android lovers? No thanks, I prefer women.

term1nal
Jun 10, 2011, 01:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzZYFnxwPg

LOL using it as a conduit to bring flash this just gets better and better....This is really adding some weight to it. Cant wait for the Uk hook up (ive already registered my name think u better) n I can now see the point of actually going out n buying a tablet/airbook.
Ive played some more of the less taxing games today n im loving this more n more what this really needs is a hook up with apple/ isp for one giant super pass of iptv games n music ...... Would love the controller function built into an Apple tv with 1080p now that i would buy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzZYFnxwPg

caspersoong
Jun 11, 2011, 09:28 AM
I wonder whether it works well on iPhone and iPod touch if it comes to it.