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MacRumors
Jun 9, 2011, 01:26 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-borrows-ios-5s-wi-fi-sync-from-rejected-app-submission/)


It's no secret that Apple's forthcoming iOS 5 incorporates a lot of new features and ideas that might say the company "borrowed" (http://gadgetbox.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/07/6805368-copycat-10-features-ios-5-borrows-from-others) from third-party developers, but one feature in particular is raising some eyebrows: Wi-Fi Sync.

Way back in April 2010, we profiled (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/26/developer-demonstrates-wireless-syncing-of-iphone-and-ipod-touch-to-itunes/) an app called Wi-Fi Sync that allowed users to sync their iOS devices wirelessly to iTunes. The application was submitted to Apple for inclusion in the App Store, but it was rejected (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/14/wi-fi-sync-app-rejected-by-apple/). The developer subsequently released the app into the Cydia store for jailbroken devices, where it has been selling well at a $9.99 price point.

As noted by TUAW (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/08/wi-fi-sync-and-wi-fi-sync-an-amazing-coincidence-you-decide/), Apple's Wi-Fi sync feature enabled by the combination of iOS 5 and iTunes 10.5 bears a strong resemblance to the original third-party app, right down to the name and the design of the icon Apple is using to promote it.OK, so maybe Apple was working on this capability in April of 2010 when Hughes first submitted Wi-Fi Sync to the App Store. But is it a coincidence that the Apple Wi-Fi Sync icon is almost identical to the one that Hughes had a designer create for him last year? Check out Hughes' icon below at left, and Apple's new icon at right. Interesting...http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/wi-fi_sync_icons.jpg


The Register follows up (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/08/apple_copies_rejected_app/) with Greg Hughes, the developer of the original Wi-Fi Sync app, who notes that he was "fairly shocked" to see the similar feature make an appearance on Monday."Obviously I was fairly shocked," said Hughes, referring to his reaction on Monday when he saw the new feature promoted on Apple's website. "I'd been selling my app with that name and icon for at least a year. Apple knew that, as I'd submitted it to them, so it was surprising to see that."Hughes notes that Apple took a special interest in his initial application, with a member of the developer relations team personally calling him to report the rejection and to say that the iPhone engineering team had looked at the application and had been impressed. Hughes says that Apple had also requested a copy of his curriculum vitae, suggesting that the company did have some interest in what he was up to.

In an email to a customer sent in June 2010 after the original Wi-Fi Sync application had been rejected, Apple CEO Steve Jobs noted (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/25/steve-jobs-on-future-wireless-iphone-syncing-replacement-of-hold-button-with-facetime/) that the company was planning to introduce a Wi-Fi syncing feature "someday", although he provided no indication of what stage of development the feature was at or when the company hoped to release it.

Article Link: Apple Borrows iOS 5's Wi-Fi Sync From Rejected App Submission (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-borrows-ios-5s-wi-fi-sync-from-rejected-app-submission/)



itsthenewdc
Jun 9, 2011, 01:28 PM
No.. they didn't borrow it from the rejected app.. They used two already universal/common logos already in Mac OS X and combined them to make sense of Wifi-Sync..

f00f
Jun 9, 2011, 01:28 PM
"Borrowed" implies what was taken from the owner will be given back to the owner.

Very poor choice of words in this context. I believe a better word is "stole".

kenypowa
Jun 9, 2011, 01:28 PM
When Apple does it, people call it "borrowing". When everyone else does it, it is called "stealing".

Double standard much?

lshaner
Jun 9, 2011, 01:29 PM
Apple is known for rejecting apps that implement / re-implement existing features...or perhaps in this case, PLANNED features, not yet implemented (by Apple).

One could also point out that the use of the volume up button as a photo shutter button was previously made possible by more than one App which was pulled for "user interface violation" reasons and will now be coming as part of iOS 5.

tempusfugit
Jun 9, 2011, 01:30 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

It's important to note that cydia's wi-fi sync requires another program installed on your computer and generally speaking performs like ****.

Andy-V
Jun 9, 2011, 01:31 PM
While I don't think Apple have taken anything (the icon is just plain what an icon for wireless sync should be, what else could it be?) it is a bit of a double standard to call this 'borrowing'. Borrowing without permission is stealing. Even though I don't think this is the case.

jdfwarrior
Jun 9, 2011, 01:33 PM
Ok so yeah to be fair the icons resemble each other but, that is the exact same wifi icon that Apple already uses, and the same sync icon Apple already uses just overlaying one another. I don't think this was Apple trying to steal the guys icon, this was them reusing icons they already had in use, plain and simple.

eastercat
Jun 9, 2011, 01:34 PM
A feature like wi-fi syncing has to be done by apple. Besides, considering that they asked for what amounts to a resume, he could've gotten hired if he chose.

keruah
Jun 9, 2011, 01:37 PM
Looks like iSync icon to me. Plus wifi.

Northgrove
Jun 9, 2011, 01:39 PM
I think the icon may be coincidental.

Here's a Google search for "sync" icons:
http://www.google.com/search?q=sync&um=1&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:i&sa=X

And here's a Google search for "Wi-Fi" icons:
http://www.google.com/search?q=wi-fi&um=1&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:i&sa=X

The combination of the two would in many cases be just like this: a sync-encircled wi-fi icon.

There's not many other ways to design that icon, unless you're going for non-traditional designs.

-bender-
Jun 9, 2011, 01:40 PM
Is it me or do these new features feel shoe-horned into the phone's UI and hardware?

chrmjenkins
Jun 9, 2011, 01:41 PM
Yeah, there's not really any other intuitive way to combine the sync and wifi logos into one icon.

chaos86
Jun 9, 2011, 01:42 PM
I bought that piece of crap app. It works, but there's nothing automated about it, it screws up your normal syncing, and runs a daemon that sometimes goes to 100% CPU until you force quit it. He released one version, never a single bugfix (for the OSX version), and charged $10. I bought it to support this independent developer who got rejected from the AppStore, and then he dropped the project entirely.

nagromme
Jun 9, 2011, 01:44 PM
The creator of the app (who did something cool and I hope saw some success) “borrowed” Apple’s WiFi and Sync icons to make a WiFi Sync icon (not that others haven’t used those symbols too).

It’s absurd to think that iOS would never cut the cord as it evolved; that was inevitable regardless of the existence of this app. It was always a matter of time.

And it’s absurd to think that Apple should not have used their already-existing WiFi and Sync icons in combination, just because someone else already combined them! Should Apple have made up two entirely new, unknown symbols for this purpose, not matching the rest of Apple’s products?

Whose eyebrows are being raised by this? :p

mark.dillon
Jun 9, 2011, 01:45 PM
Seems simple to me:

That Apple combined the Wifi icon with an iSync icon to create the icon for WI-FI SYNC shouldn’t exactly be ”shocking”.
Apple has obviously been planning the ability to sync data over Wifi for a LONG time and had every right to reject his app based on that.
That’s it. Done. :D

youcrazyboy
Jun 9, 2011, 01:48 PM
I'm sure Apple never thought of WiFi Sync b4 some frickin developer...it never entered their minds....a big fat W (hatever)

cliveren13
Jun 9, 2011, 01:49 PM
if it was the other way around alot of you would say it was stolen from apple if apple gave u crap to eat you would say thank you and eat it alot of you need to stop acting mindless and think for youself guess thats asking too much

CindyRed
Jun 9, 2011, 01:50 PM
If you think about it, both icons make sense. It's just the Apple 'sync' icon with the Apple 'wifi' icon crammed in the middle. To come up with something different is just silly. Sure, Apple may already have designers working for them, creating icons like this, which is quite obvious from the respective separate icons that make up the new 'air sync' icon, but that's how product identification works.

With a feature such as wireless syncing being on every iPhone user's wish list since the first generation phone, it's hard to believe that the phone's creators needed a third party app to give them the idea to finally implement it.

To say it was 'borrowed' or 'stolen' or saying anything else that may imply Apple didn't come up with the idea themselves without evidence is just plain libel and slander.

A complete mis-nomer when there is no evidence of ideas being pilfered.

trainwrecka
Jun 9, 2011, 01:52 PM
this.is.ridiculous.

moveteam
Jun 9, 2011, 01:53 PM
"When Apple does it, people call it "borrowing". When everyone else does it, it is called "stealing".

Double standard much?"
When Apple does it, people call it "copying". When everyone else does it, it is called "inventing".

:eek:

coasterswim
Jun 9, 2011, 01:54 PM
How else was Apple supposed to implement Wi-Fi Sync? And how else were they suppose to make the icon look?

DCstewieG
Jun 9, 2011, 01:57 PM
The method of syncing is pretty different too, as the rejected app talked to iTunes directly (requiring the computer to be on) but Apple's implementation talks to iCloud so the computer can be off and you could even be on a totally different network. Very different. Not to say Apple's method is better because it could very well be slower unless they first detect iTunes on your local network to sync directly before going out to the cloud. Either way it's more complex.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 9, 2011, 01:58 PM
Seriously?

You can't be serious about this.

1. Apple has been asked/trying to put this feature for the last 2 years?

2. The icon is more or less common sense isn't it?

But yeah, inb4 troll attack.

drivec
Jun 9, 2011, 02:05 PM
Borrowed? No.
The MobileMe and Apple Sync Logos are exactly like that sync symbol around it.
The WiFi symbol is exactly the same as the WiFi symbol on iOS devices. In fact, I'm willing to bet that they used the assets they already had to make this logo instead of making it from scratch.

vinnie603
Jun 9, 2011, 02:07 PM
no biggie
icons are meant to be standard

ZBB
Jun 9, 2011, 02:08 PM
A couple points to remember:

The first-gen Apple TV synced over wifi (or a network cable) with iTunes and did since its release -- so this is not necessarily new technology for Apple. It also pre-dates the app mentioned...

The only question I have is why it took Apple so long to add this feature to iOS synching. I'm only going to guess that they decided they had higher priorities and since synching with a cable worked well enough, it wasn't as critical as other items. They probably wanted to test and optimize it-- wifi syncing the 1G AppleTV could be very slow, and often quit working (you'd have to re-boot the AppleTV or re-install iTunes to get it to come back)...

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 9, 2011, 02:18 PM
A couple points to remember:

The first-gen Apple TV synced over wifi (or a network cable) with iTunes and did since its release -- so this is not necessarily new technology for Apple. It also pre-dates the app mentioned...

The only question I have is why it took Apple so long to add this feature to iOS synching. I'm only going to guess that they decided they had higher priorities and since synching with a cable worked well enough, it wasn't as critical as other items. They probably wanted to test and optimize it-- wifi syncing the 1G AppleTV could be very slow, and often quit working (you'd have to re-boot the AppleTV or re-install iTunes to get it to come back)...

Who are we explaining?

The 20 year old Computer Science student has been tweeting this now. He is too immature to actually understand that both these things are common sense; but still he insists on tweeting that Apple copied his idea and icon.

roland.g
Jun 9, 2011, 02:20 PM
I can't believe this is actually an article. Kind of sad. If the article showed that Apple lifted segments of code, line for line, then I would be interested. But the name and icon and feature. Please. We all knew it was coming and they are generic icons and terms.

paulold
Jun 9, 2011, 02:25 PM
If anything, I'd say that Greg Hughes was inspired by Apple's iconography when assembling his logo to Wi-Fi Sync. Of course he wanted it to have an Apple-like icon. So, he did a good job of predicting what Apple created for its icon.

yourstation
Jun 9, 2011, 02:26 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Ok so yeah to be fair the icons resemble each other but, that is the exact same wifi icon that Apple already uses, and the same sync icon Apple already uses just overlaying one another. I don't think this was Apple trying to steal the guys icon, this was them reusing icons they already had in use, plain and simple.

Damn right! Of course this developer will like to take some credit but it was an obvious forthcoming feature. The logo is just iSync + AirPort Signal Icon. Apple did not borrow, steal or anything here.

jive turkey
Jun 9, 2011, 02:33 PM
No.. they didn't borrow it from the rejected app.. They used two already universal/common logos already in Mac OS X and combined them to make sense of Wifi-Sync..

Exactly what I was coming to this thread to say, so I am glad to see yours was the first response to the article.

Neither the idea nor logo was stolen from the other app, and given that the plans for this feature have no doubt been in the minds of Apple since the iPhone was first created, I can fully understand why they rejected the original app from the AppStore. The only way this is underhanded is if Apple copied the code of the other developer, which I have no clue if they did of course. But if I'm Mr. Hughes, I am going to do everything I can to find out.

iSimx
Jun 9, 2011, 02:49 PM
Big deal, move on. Designs are constantly copied or inspired by. This is no different and nor is it an exact copy.

42streetsdown
Jun 9, 2011, 03:09 PM
The method of syncing is pretty different too, as the rejected app talked to iTunes directly (requiring the computer to be on) but Apple's implementation talks to iCloud so the computer can be off and you could even be on a totally different network. Very different. Not to say Apple's method is better because it could very well be slower unless they first detect iTunes on your local network to sync directly before going out to the cloud. Either way it's more complex.

i thought it did sync over the local network. can anyone confirm this?

AlphaDogg
Jun 9, 2011, 03:24 PM
The creator of the app (who did something cool and I hope saw some success) “borrowed” Apple’s WiFi and Sync icons to make a WiFi Sync icon (not that others haven’t used those symbols too).

It’s absurd to think that iOS would never cut the cord as it evolved; that was inevitable regardless of the existence of this app. It was always a matter of time.

And it’s absurd to think that Apple should not have used their already-existing WiFi and Sync icons in combination, just because someone else already combined them! Should Apple have made up two entirely new, unknown symbols for this purpose, not matching the rest of Apple’s products?

Whose eyebrows are being raised by this? :p

It may be absurd, but if the creator of the Cydia WiFi Sync took Apple to court for it, he could probably win a case. The court would not consider the absurdity of not reusing their own logos.

Dcuellar
Jun 9, 2011, 03:30 PM
I used Wifi Sync at one point from cydia but I had to uninstall it because there was an issue with restoring my device. It always provided me with an error no matter what I did. I did some research on google and found out that I was not the only one with this issue and the culprit was definitely Wifi Sync.

I would have reinstalled it if it wasn't such a huge pain in the ass to uninstall.

rorschach
Jun 9, 2011, 03:35 PM
I guess Apple can never introduce new features into the OS because someone, somewhere has thought of it. :rolleyes:

The idea of Wi-Fi syncing is not unique.

MacMan86
Jun 9, 2011, 03:52 PM
It may be absurd, but if the creator of the Cydia WiFi Sync took Apple to court for it, he could probably win a case. The court would not consider the absurdity of not reusing their own logos.

It would be a very brave 20 year-old student to take Apple to court… I'm pretty sure the court would recognise the name 'Wi-Fi Sync' is far too generic and not that this is a patent case, but there is plenty of 'prior art'.

Exactly what I was coming to this thread to say, so I am glad to see yours was the first response to the article.

Neither the idea nor logo was stolen from the other app, and given that the plans for this feature have no doubt been in the minds of Apple since the iPhone was first created, I can fully understand why they rejected the original app from the AppStore. The only way this is underhanded is if Apple copied the code of the other developer, which I have no clue if they did of course. But if I'm Mr. Hughes, I am going to do everything I can to find out.

Apple would only have had the app binary, not the source code. Apple would have had to implement it from scratch, not that that would have been a problem for them

MartiNZ
Jun 9, 2011, 04:17 PM
I guess Apple can never introduce new features into the OS because someone, somewhere has thought of it. :rolleyes:

The idea of Wi-Fi syncing is not unique.

Exactly, if they weren't entitled to screw over devs we wouldn't have had QE antialiasing (Silk, on OS X 10.1.5), Dashboard (actually that would be really nice! Konfabulator, etc. OS X 10.3.9), plenty of others I'm forgetting, volume button for camera shutter in iOS5 :).

Someone should take the Samsung lawyer approach - devs need to see what you're planning for the future so they know what not to pre-emptively copy ;)!

Bubba Satori
Jun 9, 2011, 04:20 PM
If Jonestown had apologists as good as these, they would never have had to drink their Kool-aid.

MacMan86
Jun 9, 2011, 04:37 PM
If Jonestown had apologists as good as these, they would never have had to drink their Kool-aid.

Care to make a case for the developer instead of just troll?

fishmoose
Jun 9, 2011, 04:48 PM
There are only so many ways to sync a device over wifi and to make an icon indicating such a function...

Lukeyy19
Jun 9, 2011, 05:17 PM
Wifi Syncing is a feature that has been widely requested by users for many years, Apple going through with it does not mean they are stealing...

as for the icon...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13370985/sync%20plus%20wifi%20equals%20wifi%20sync.png

mw360
Jun 9, 2011, 06:04 PM
There needs to be some kind of system where developers can register great original ideas like wi-fi syncing and then seek license fees or damages against other companies who use them. I think that would be really popular.

Lukeyy19
Jun 9, 2011, 06:55 PM
There needs to be some kind of system where developers can register great original ideas like wi-fi syncing and then seek license fees or damages against other companies who use them. I think that would be really popular.

yeah some sort of place where original ideas could be, perhaps, Patented?

Kind of like http://www.ipo.gov.uk and http://www.uspto.gov/ then yeah?

I hope you were being sarcastic...

iansilv
Jun 9, 2011, 07:30 PM
What was the icon supposed to look like?!?

And syncing over wi-fi- I'm sorry, but what part of that is the "Oh holy crap that's amazingly original and I never thought of that" part?

This was an obvious evolution of sync. Apple probably could have scored some P.R. points and hired the kid or bought the app, but to be honest, his app was pretty inconsistent- I bought it.

I really think they need to allow multiflow, sbs settings and lockinfo in to the app store. Seriously.

Navigate from maps, mark read, mail rules... there are about a dozen others I am eagerly awaiting a jailbreak for iOS 5 for. But Wi-Fi sync, while useful, was not a groundbreaking idea that was not obviously going to be implemented in a future version of iOS.

scirica
Jun 9, 2011, 07:46 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

It's important to note that cydia's wi-fi sync requires another program installed on your computer and generally speaking performs like ****.

I felt like the developer of the Cydia app is the one that "stole". Thousands of us paid $10 for this app that never worked, and waited patiently for an update that never came (2.0). Apple will have the intellectual capacity to do this right. Greg had a great idea, but couldn't pull it off.

iansilv
Jun 9, 2011, 07:50 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

It's important to note that cydia's wi-fi sync requires another program installed on your computer and generally speaking performs like ****.

^ This

wackymacky
Jun 9, 2011, 09:18 PM
Apple is known for rejecting apps that implement / re-implement existing features...or perhaps in this case, PLANNED features, not yet implemented (by Apple).

One could also point out that the use of the volume up button as a photo shutter button was previously made possible by more than one App which was pulled for "user interface violation" reasons and will now be coming as part of iOS 5.

I think this is why Job's had a hard time keeping a straight face, and every one else at the WWDC laughed their a4ses off when he announced it.


How else was Apple supposed to implement Wi-Fi Sync? And how else were they suppose to make the icon look?

+1

twilson
Jun 10, 2011, 12:37 AM
It may be absurd, but if the creator of the Cydia WiFi Sync took Apple to court for it, he could probably win a case. The court would not consider the absurdity of not reusing their own logos.

Possibly, but then Apple would drop a trademark infringement suit on his ass for using their Wi-fi logo :P

This Greg is just annoyed that Apple rejected his app, that could never exist because of its reliance on private APIs.

And as everyone is saying, this feature is so obvious, seeing as Zune had it ages from day 1 (so did Greg not copy Microsoft?)

twilson
Jun 10, 2011, 12:42 AM
I'm forgetting, volume button for camera shutter in iOS5 :).

apple couldn't allow tap tap tap to use volume button for Camera+, because they'd have had to allow ANYONE to remap the buttons for ANY USE (thereby causing the confusion Apple referred to).

Also, I think that requires private API calls.

catmistake
Jun 10, 2011, 12:44 AM
It may be absurd, but if the creator of the Cydia WiFi Sync took Apple to court for it, he could probably win a case. The court would not consider the absurdity of not reusing their own logos.

Doubtful. As others have pointed out the main reason's why the developer should shut up, that he borrowed from Apple first, using the universally recognized wifi symbol and a stylized version of the universally recognized sync symbol, and that he actually is entirely incorrect that wireless syncing was his idea. If he goes to court, Apple will not settle, but could counter-sue on the grounds that the developer broke a legal contract with Apple by agreeing to the terms of the development contract, and then completely ignoring the terms. The dev should count his money and $TFU, or he could lose it all and more.

Wow it's so nice to see that most commenters see right through this developer's contrived drama.

res1233
Jun 10, 2011, 01:10 AM
if it was the other way around alot of you would say it was stolen from apple if apple gave u crap to eat you would say thank you and eat it alot of you need to stop acting mindless and think for youself guess thats asking too much

PUNCTUATION IS YOUR FRIEND. Thank you.

twilson
Jun 10, 2011, 02:41 AM
Doubtful. As others have pointed out the main reason's why the developer should shut up, that he borrowed from Apple first, using the universally recognized wifi symbol and a stylized version of the universally recognized sync symbol, and that he actually is entirely incorrect that wireless syncing was his idea. If he goes to court, Apple will not settle, but could counter-sue on the grounds that the developer broke a legal contract with Apple by agreeing to the terms of the development contract, and then completely ignoring the terms. The dev should count his money and $TFU, or he could lose it all and more.

Wow it's so nice to see that most commenters see right through this developer's contrived drama.

I agree whole-heartedly. For anyone to claim wireless sync as "their idea" in 2010, regardless of the platform, is just utterly ludicrous.

Private API issues aside (this was his main problem), it seems he hasn't been able to deliver a totally stable solution, based on some of the comments here.

What a whiny little girl!

rikscha
Jun 10, 2011, 04:44 AM
so Apple simply took their wifi symbol which every mac user can see in the upper right corner of their mac, and their isync symbol and combined these.

where exactly did they copy anything? Id rather say the other guy was heavily borrowing from apple.

gnasher729
Jun 10, 2011, 04:59 AM
"Borrowed" implies what was taken from the owner will be given back to the owner.

Very poor choice of words in this context. I believe a better word is "stole".

When Apple does it, people call it "borrowing". When everyone else does it, it is called "stealing".

Double standard much?

Yeah, there's not really any other intuitive way to combine the sync and wifi logos into one icon.

The creator of the app (who did something cool and I hope saw some success) “borrowed” Apple’s WiFi and Sync icons to make a WiFi Sync icon (not that others haven’t used those symbols too).

It’s absurd to think that iOS would never cut the cord as it evolved; that was inevitable regardless of the existence of this app. It was always a matter of time.

And it’s absurd to think that Apple should not have used their already-existing WiFi and Sync icons in combination, just because someone else already combined them! Should Apple have made up two entirely new, unknown symbols for this purpose, not matching the rest of Apple’s products?

People should really look at some other icons to get an idea what has been happening. The important icon here is Apple's old, old iSync icon, shown at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ISync_icon.png which I think is from the year 2003.

If you now compare all three icons, then you'll see that Apple's Wifi sync icon is the same as the old iSync icon, except that the typical design features for iPhone icons were applied (square with rounded corners instead of circle, some fake reflections) and the age old WiFi symbol that you see in the menubar of your Mac was added inside the circle. The supposedly "borrowed" icon on the other hand has a totally different colour, and the two circling arrows are at a different angle.

So the similarities are: General icon shape (but that is in common with _all_ iPhone icons, and that general icon shape was designed by Apple), two circling arrows (which is typical for all syncing applications, just type "sync icon" into Google and you'll find about 100 of them, _and_ it was used by Apple for many years), and the "WiFi" symbol, used by Apple for many years as well.

The differences are: Different colour (whereas the iSync icon has identical colour to the WiFi sync icon), different orientation of the arrows (whereas the iSync icon has the same orientation to the WiFi sync icon).

In summary, the claim that the icon was "borrowed" is utter rubbish.


There are only so many ways to sync a device over wifi and to make an icon indicating such a function...

There is an almost infinite way of writing code that will sync a device over WiFi, and copyright will protect each of these ways. The _idea_ that you might sync over WiFi is obvious (because syncing exists, wired networks exist, wireless networks exist, syncing over a wired network exists, and combining existing things in a way that creates only the expected results is obvious) and not protectable. The icon can be created in many different ways; the complainer demonstrated that himself by creating an icon that is very distinct in style from the old "iSync" icon. It can be varied by colour, material, orientation of the arrows, how close to 180 degrees the arrows are, their thickness, variation in thickness, differences in the arrow heads, whether they are strict half circles or more in a "bent" or hand-drawn shape, and I am just starting. So there could be no excuse for copying someone else's icon. Which Apple didn't do.

leroypants
Jun 10, 2011, 07:12 AM
I love how the writer uses the term "borrowed" instead of "stole", apple stole their idea from this app. Of course the apple drones are once again rushing to blindly defend apple.

MacMan86
Jun 10, 2011, 07:16 AM
I love how the writer uses the term "borrowed" instead of "stole", apple stole their idea from this app. Of course the apple drones are once again rushing to blindly defend apple.

And therefore the developer "stole" the idea from Android and WebOS, because they had Wi-Fi syncing too at the time. How do you rationalise that?

leroypants
Jun 10, 2011, 07:36 AM
And therefore the developer "stole" the idea from Android and WebOS, because they had Wi-Fi syncing too at the time. How do you rationalise that?

So what you are saying is that apple stole the idea from android and webos?

MacMan86
Jun 10, 2011, 07:40 AM
So what you are saying is that apple stoe the idea from android and webos?

No, I'm saying that using the word "steal" here is stupid. No one "stole" anything. It's a method of syncing, it's nothing innovative. No one said Apple "stole" USB syncing from Microsoft or Palm when the original iPhone came out.

Having USB syncing is fine but suddenly taking away the cable means someone must have "stolen" something - that's stupid.

Jagardn
Jun 10, 2011, 07:50 AM
I love how the writer uses the term "borrowed" instead of "stole", apple stole their idea from this app. Of course the apple drones are once again rushing to blindly defend apple.

Yup, I'm a drone defending my Apple Stock!:D

I don't blame them for not allowing a WiFi sync app that interfaces with one of their pieces of software. If that App were to have bugs where it were destroying the iTunes DB, it would degrade the user experience. If Apple had allowed the App when it was proposed, we now would be discussing that Apple threw the developer of the app by making the feature native. If they would have approved the app and left it out of the native OS, people would be bitching that it wasn't native. "Why is it that with an iPhone, you have to run some app to sync it?"

gorgeousninja
Jun 10, 2011, 08:02 AM
When Apple does it, people call it "borrowing". When everyone else does it, it is called "stealing".

Double standard much?

No, Apple should just say the icon is 'generic' .... that's what everyone else does to them.

econgeek
Jun 10, 2011, 08:54 AM
It's no secret that Apple's forthcoming iOS 5 incorporates a lot of new features and ideas that might say the company "borrowed" (http://gadgetbox.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/07/6805368-copycat-10-features-ios-5-borrows-from-others) from third-party developers, but one feature in particular is raising some eyebrows: Wi-Fi Sync.


This kind of amateur hour writing is why I read MacRumors less and less. This used to be a "just the facts ma'am" type of site, and I appreciated it for that.

The idea that Apple steals ideas from third parties has been perpetuated since the claim that they "stole" the idea for Watson. Watson, as it should be noted was an app that copied one of Apple's ideas, embodied in Sherlock. That's why Watson was called Watson in the first place, it was a nod to Apple's sherlock.

Worse, for this story, years ago people leaked that Apple was working on wifi sync. You reported it numerous times. And then some kid goes out and puts together a hack-- clearly inspired by the idea, leaked from Apple's labs.

For you to claim that Apple stole this idea (based on an Apple rumor) is as asnine as to claim that iTunes Match is a ripoff of Amazon or Googles cloud music services (both of which were inspired by a rumor about what Apple was doing.)

Finally, lets address the shoddy writing: "It's no secret" is code for "I'm going to pretend like this is true so I don't have to actually make and defend the claim." And "borrowing" is, of course, code for "stealing", a claim you also can't make or defend. Finally, "raising some eyebrows" is another cliche that implies there's some group of people in-the-know and they're shocked-shocked! That apple did this. Which of course is BS.

This is just some writer who really should be writing for a college newspaper with this kind of crap.

Seriously, if you're going to write like TUAW, then there's no reason I shouldn't read TUAW.

If anyone here is old enough to remember, there was an original mac rumors site called MacOSRumors.com -- a site that this site "borrowed" the name from-- and a site that this site improved on by getting rid of this bush league writing crap.

MacOSRumors liked to pretend to have super secret info that he was "letting us in on" and engaged this kind of crappy writing all the time.

That is a big reason that MOSR is no longer around, and the clone site- MacRumors is still around.

Keep up these dishonest, fraudulent stories and you'll have no credibility left.

jephrey
Jun 10, 2011, 08:56 AM
Those of you who claim Apple stole this, or in any way think that Apple is being underhanded:

Please post a reason why? Have you looked around the net for other syncing or wifi icons and noticed any other similarities other than this app? If any of you can clearly state WHY you think so, please do. There are a lot of others here posting very valid arguments that the logo is pretty much the same for everyone that offers this, with slightly different stylings of course. Why won't you give Apple the same "respect" as everyone else who uses a similar icon? Is it because apple's icon wasn't first? Does it always have to be first or they stole it?

I get so curious when to me it feels like people just make posts without researching anything, claiming that everyone else who has is some kind of fanboy.

http://isource.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Wi-Fi-Sync.jpg

clearly, the start and stop angles of the arrows are in line with apples old sync icon... If you want to argue stealing, this guy stole apples sync logo... two arrows going in a circle - and added an image from the internet for the wifi part - the interior "wifi" logo. You'd have to say both of them stole that logo, right? I know Apple probably wasn't the first to use that, and this developer obviously wasn't either. And that's all I have to say about that.

finch.

econgeek
Jun 10, 2011, 09:07 AM
Who are we explaining?

The 20 year old Computer Science student has been tweeting this now. He is too immature to actually understand that both these things are common sense; but still he insists on tweeting that Apple copied his idea and icon.

That's the whole point of these kinds of articles. Giving attention to anyone who can scrape together a claim that Apple did something wrong, no matter how asinine.

Remember when that douchebag wil shipley claimed that apple stole his idea for a bookshelf from delicious library for the iBooks app?

The thing is, I made an app like delicious library in the mid 1990s, and used a bookshelf icon on it... and I did this in Seattle where Wil is located. so I should claim Wil stole the idea from me, right?

I was there nearly half a decade ahead of wil.

But wil, being a douchebag, won't admit that he stole from me (he just douches around as if he's too stupid to understand the concept) and all the bloggers with no credibility carp on about how Apple stole the idea of a bookshelf from will effing shipley.

It is enough to conclude that the movie Idiocracy was right, and it is happening much faster than predicted.

econgeek
Jun 10, 2011, 09:14 AM
If Jonestown had apologists as good as these, they would never have had to drink their Kool-aid.

Ever notice how, to "certain people", anyone who makes arguments defending Apple is an "apologist" or a "fanboy" or a member of a "cult".

Yet here they are on mac forums (and they are on all mac forums) and all they contribute is characterizations of other participants.

If they spent a bunch of time making arguments to the POINT rather than to the PEOPLE, you might thing they are legitimate.

So, who is it that is engaging in cult like behavior? You who cannot make an argument to the point and so instead calls people cultists?

Or the people who are making arguments to the point that you disagree with?

err404
Jun 10, 2011, 09:24 AM
Of course the name "Wi-Fi Sync" and concept are generic. So is "App Store".

Apple will easily win any litigation over the Wi-Fi Sync claims, but it's very bad PR. They may be better off just tossing the guy some cash and have him issue a public statement that they "worked things out".

Then again that would just be an invitation to others making similar claims down the road...

AaronEdwards
Jun 10, 2011, 09:38 AM
This isn't borrowing or stealing. It's like when you have an rectangular area that you want to fill with square shaped icons, a grid layout is the best one and the one most would end up with. Suing for this would be as stupid as suing for a grid layout that looks like your own.

Porco
Jun 10, 2011, 11:16 AM
This is like if someone registered iCloud domains last year then said Apple copied their idea of using a logo that looks like a bit like a cloud in a technology-kind of way.

Edit: I posted before this article came to light!! : http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/10/icloud-communications-files-suit-against-apple-over-icloud-name/

Maoltuile
Jun 10, 2011, 12:28 PM
This can't be serious. Both the logo and the icon are the 'obvious' choices. Maybe Apple should hire the original dev, as he clearly has good taste?

And it bears mentioning for those not aware - The Register are professional page-view trolls. They're about as credible as a tabloid.

jettredmont
Jun 10, 2011, 12:32 PM
When Apple does it, people call it "borrowing". When everyone else does it, it is called "stealing".

Double standard much?

Umm, the original developer "borrowed" two standard Apple icons, skewed one in an ugly way, and then combined them.

But, it's Apple who "stole" those two standard Apple icons, "unskewed" the ugliness on the one, and combined them?

The icon is definitely not "stealing" in any sense of the word. Unless you are talking about the original developer, who took those icons from Apple. The common Apple iconography is a part of a vocabulary. You are free to use that vocabulary to describe your product, but it's Apple's vocabulary to use as they see fit.

And name? "WiFi Sync"? That utterly imaginative name he thinks Apple stole? That's really weak sauce.

As far as the functionality: the idea of a wireless sync is obvious, to the point that dozens if not hundreds of pundits publicly questioned why Apple hadn't done it up to this point. Unless Apple took this guy's mechanism for doing that, the idea doesn't even meet the thin requirements for a software patent, as it is so obvious that it was "invented" simultaneously by everyone and their brother.

ucmj22
Jun 10, 2011, 01:26 PM
Granted, I only read the first page of comments, but I expected alot more apple bashing on here so I guess I'll Have to take the lead. As a Graphic Designer who creates logos, this does seem to be a problem. even though the wifi symbol is public domain and the sync symbol by itself is not generally defendable under trademark laws, when the are combined it does create a proprietary symbol that can be trademarked. it would be something like me taking the golden arches, turning them blue and starting a restaurant called McTonalds that sold Big Tacs and Half Half Pounders with cheese. The M logo is just a letter of the alphabet right,... its "universal". Apples case is also hurt by the fact that this logo, along with the name WiFi Sync has already been used to sell a set of proprietary code (AKA Software) successfully means that Greg Huges doesn't even have to have submitted it for a trademark in order to be protected. If Mcdonalds never trademarked their logo it would still be protected because it could be proven that the M logo is recognizable to them and therefore theirs by default. anyone who disagrees should read up on their TM law.
(| worst the it best of times was |) these words are not copywrited however when arranged like so, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times," it becomes copywrite protected.
It is not the elements themselves that are the issue, it is how they are perceived as a whole.

MacMan86
Jun 10, 2011, 01:44 PM
Granted, I only read the first page of comments, but I expected alot more apple bashing on here so I guess I'll Have to take the lead. As a Graphic Designer who creates logos, this does seem to be a problem. even though the wifi symbol is public domain and the sync symbol by itself is not generally defendable under trademark laws, when the are combined it does create a proprietary symbol that can be trademarked. it would be something like me taking the golden arches, turning them blue and starting a restaurant called McTonalds that sold Big Tacs and Half Half Pounders with cheese. The M logo is just a letter of the alphabet right,... its "universal". Apples case is also hurt by the fact that this logo, along with the name WiFi Sync has already been used to sell a set of proprietary code (AKA Software) successfully means that Greg Huges doesn't even have to have submitted it for a trademark in order to be protected. If Mcdonalds never trademarked their logo it would still be protected because it could be proven that the M logo is recognizable to them and therefore theirs by default. anyone who disagrees should read up on their TM law.
(| worst the it best of times was |) these words are not copywrited however when arranged like so, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times," it becomes copywrite protected.
It is not the elements themselves that are the issue, it is how they are perceived as a whole.

How about the fact that the Wi-Fi symbol used was directly lifted from Apple?

http://images.apple.com/timecapsule/images/wireless_wirelessicon_20080115.png
http://images.apple.com/timecapsule/images/wireless_wirelessicon_20080115.png

That symbol is not public domain and is not the same as the others that are used for Wi-Fi http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=wifi+symbol&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1440&bih=764&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

It would be a brave man to take on Apple when you've used one of Apple's assets in the first place, without permission.

ucmj22
Jun 10, 2011, 02:01 PM
How about the fact that the Wi-Fi symbol used was directly lifted from Apple?

Image (http://images.apple.com/timecapsule/images/wireless_wirelessicon_20080115.png)
http://images.apple.com/timecapsule/images/wireless_wirelessicon_20080115.png

That symbol is not public domain and is not the same as the others that are used for Wi-Fi http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=wifi+symbol&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1440&bih=764&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

It would be a brave man to take on Apple when you've used one of Apple's assets in the first place, without permission.

You just showed me a 4 tiered wifi symbol. the one in the ap is a 3 tiered wifi symbol. I suppose you are saying that Apple owns all wifi symbols and is allowing everyone else to use them at their discretion...?

MacMan86
Jun 10, 2011, 02:10 PM
You just showed me a 4 tiered wifi symbol. the one in the ap is a 3 tiered wifi symbol. I suppose you are saying that Apple owns all wifi symbols and is allowing everyone else to use them at their discretion...?

… And Apple have a smaller scale version of the same symbol with 3 tiers for their mobile devices:

http://www.info.apple.com/images/kbase/306795/306795_3.jpg
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA38663?viewlocale=en_US

ucmj22
Jun 10, 2011, 02:18 PM
… And Apple have a smaller scale version of the same symbol with 3 tiers for their mobile devices:

Image (http://www.info.apple.com/images/kbase/306795/306795_3.jpg)
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA38663?viewlocale=en_US

still.. are you asserting that apple owns that symbol? I have found no evidence that anyone owns the tiered wifi symbol.

err404
Jun 10, 2011, 02:22 PM
Better yet... from the iOS4 settings menu
http://www.home-network-help.com/images/iphone-wifi-setting.jpg

ucmj22
Jun 10, 2011, 02:25 PM
Better yet... from the iOS4 settings menu
Image (http://www.home-network-help.com/images/iphone-wifi-setting.jpg)

so, apple used a public domain logo, please tell me how this relates to the proprietary logo this discussion is about?

err404
Jun 10, 2011, 02:42 PM
so, apple used a public domain logo, please tell me how this relates to the proprietary logo this discussion is about?

Personally I don't believe that the icon is strong enough to support either party claiming ownership.

Apple is using existing symbols from their historical iconography in a logical way to convey the purpose of a new feature on their website.

AFAIK Apple isn't even using this icon within iOS5. I doubt the dev could do any more that send Apple a take-down notice for the website feature page.

MacMan86
Jun 10, 2011, 03:31 PM
still.. are you asserting that apple owns that symbol? I have found no evidence that anyone owns the tiered wifi symbol.

Fine, if you want to go down that route:

“it is possible for two generic terms taken together to achieve trademark or service mark status by achieving a sufficient level of secondary meaning in the relevant community. However, the burden on the party making a claim to distinctiveness or secondary meaning in such a case is high because of the disinclination of the courts to take words of ordinary meaning out of common usage.”
http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2006/d2006-0350.html
Substitute "words" for "icons".

Good luck to him. From all accounts the app was buggy, he never responded to support requests (as a fellow developer I find this particularly poor) and the long-promised improved version 2 never materialised.

Mak47
Jun 10, 2011, 09:35 PM
People seriously need to learn what is and is not actually the "theft" or "borrowing" of IP. I work in music and this kind of crap is commonplace there as well.

In music, there are only so many chord progressions and so many words in the English language. There have been literally millions of songs written in the history of pop music. Any time someone gets a hit song, there are a half dozen other writers who did something similar who want to make a big stink and file lawsuits claiming theft. It happens, get over it, people come up with similar ideas all the time.

If I have an artist bring me a song that sounds like one I've written, or am working on but haven't released, I'll reject theirs. Redundancy is boring. Beyond that, I decide what I work on and release. I have a right to reject material for any reason, including because it would hamper my ability to market my own writing.

This situation is no different. Anyone who believes that Apple wasn't already planning to implement WiFi Sync in iOS is an absolute fool. It's up to them when and how they do so and rejecting the app was in their interest and within their rights.

How would the developer have reacted if they accepted it, let him make money for a while, then implemented it in the OS and gave away their better version of it for free. His business would be dead and he'd be mad that they didn't warn him about it.

Every other person on this forum has publicly suggested WiFi Sync for iTunes, does that mean we all had the idea first and should sue for the theft of our IP? No, certainly not. This developer is only different in that he actually made something that worked. I applaud those efforts, but this is a far cry from any kind of theft.

Lahmy88
Jun 11, 2011, 09:20 AM
Apple should have paid Hughes atleast a little bit for this or given him something for writing such a good app that would benefit the iPhone community a lot. Instead they used their power to reject a perfectly good app and release the feature when 'they' wanted to.

haruhiko
Jun 11, 2011, 09:23 AM
Wow....

Does it mean that Apple cannot add any new features that are currently available on Cydia? Otherwise they are copying?:eek:

MacMan86
Jun 11, 2011, 09:37 AM
Apple should have paid Hughes atleast a little bit for this or given him something for writing such a good app that would benefit the iPhone community a lot. Instead they used their power to reject a perfectly good app and release the feature when 'they' wanted to.

That's just not how business works. Companies pay for licenses to patented or copyrighted work. Neither case applied here, you don't pat someone on the head, say "good work" and give them a wad of cash. Apple isn't a charity. The guy earned around $500,000 anyway, and by all accounts it wasn't such 'a good app' - Everyone here who's used it is saying how poorly the app functioned and how the developer never responded to support requests.

caspersoong
Jun 11, 2011, 09:42 AM
As long as it does not cause the same problems in backup as the Cydia App, it's fine with me.

bushido
Jun 11, 2011, 12:39 PM
well apple is no better than samsung, it's indeed "the year of copy... cats" but in another sense

MacMan86
Jun 11, 2011, 12:50 PM
well apple is no better than samsung, it's indeed "the year of copy... cats" but in another sense

You're absolutely right, would be far better for Apple to never implement Wi-Fi syncing and for the 95%+ of non-jailbroken iOS users to be forced to use USB syncing indefinitely. :rolleyes:

iSee
Jun 11, 2011, 09:11 PM
Uh, this is just stupid. That guy did not invent wireless synching in 2010. It's absurd to suggest that Apple stole the idea from him. Geeze, just stupid.

SPUY767
Jun 12, 2011, 08:27 AM
Please do not feed the trolls.

Mr. Chewbacca
Jun 12, 2011, 10:37 AM
One huge difference between the two versions. I expect the Apple version will actually work. I wasted 10 bucks on the cydia version. I got it to work once then messed up the whole syncing process.

Later I uninstalled the whole lot, re installed, it worked once.... Facepalm :mad:

Obviously the one person that made the cydia app was talented, working with out Apple's cooperation still made it kinda work. Its impressive but I'm so glad Apple is going to do it for real.