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labaom
Jun 10, 2011, 02:17 PM
I am currently on the latest build of Mac OSX Lion and I STRONGLY believe that Snow Leopard is a better overall operating system. I will be fair and continue to test it until it reaches final but things will not change much as it is a month from release.

UI:

Buttons - The buttons are now small and harder to push. When you hover over one, all of them show their functions (X, -, +). They do not look right and consistent with the UI.

Transition Effects - I understand it is still beta. However, from what I see now, the effects are very poor. For example when emptying the trash, there is a lag for the window to pop up.

Finder/iTunes - iTunes 10 was a sneak preview of Lion's new UI. I do not understand why Apple would go from a colorful theme to a black and white one. It is very boring. Also, the shades of grey make it seem like the buttons are sometimes greyed out (inactive), but they actually work. Below, I think it is obvious which looks better.

http://i-dothink.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Mac-OSX-Lion-FInder1.png

vs.

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/3-blog-pics/mac-finder-places-movies.png

Full Screen Button - Full Screen applications are cool. However, that button really bothers me. I wish it only showed up when you put your mouse over it. It simply makes things look more complication in OSX.

Gestures/New Features:

Mission Control - The point of Mission Control is to merge Expose and Spaces. However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces. Therefore, Mission control wastes space for me to choose applications on my screen. It simply makes it harder. The gesture for it (4 fingers slide up) use to be for hiding all applications. Now if you want to hide them, you have to do an uncomfortable thumb + three fingers up gesture. Sometimes the gesture doesn't work and takes me into Launch Pad.

Launch Pad - When you get your Mac for the first time, you have three stacks on your dock. Applications, Documents, and Downloads. Launch Pad makes it harder for you to get to your apps since it is easier to open up a stack.

Resume - Resume is actually a cool feature as a backup plan for anything going wrong. However, when most people turn off their computers, they turn if off for a reason. I have to uncheck that I do not want to resume when I shut down every time. I wish there was a way to completely disable it.

Versions - Pretty cool I admit.

Summary:

In all, Lion is just an update to Snow Leopard with an attempt to change the UI for the better. However, it is even more inconsistent than before. Snow Leopard is much nicer in terms of color and design. Lion also includes many features that make things more complicated and less functional (Mission Control). None of these features are really needed for me and many users. I understand this is still in development. But there are no bugs I can tell in Lion, just functionality problems due to the new features. Mac is suppose to be about simplicity, but now it is becoming more complicated and down hill. I hate to say it, but Apple may just be out of ideas. I will be fair and try it again when final comes out, however, if it stays like this I have no problem going back to Snow Leopard.

What are your thoughts?



Cougarcat
Jun 10, 2011, 02:41 PM
My response:

The open/close/minimize buttons look sharper. I like them, and I don't find them harder to click. Someone posted here that they actually have the same clickable area as the previous buttons.

Animations: They can be a bit gratuitous at times, but they're pretty slick. They will speed up by the final version.

B/W Icons: agreed. Luckily it will be easy to fix.

FS button: This replaces the "pill" button in many cases, so I don't see this as added clutter. It's important that it remain visible so you know when you can go fullscreen.

Mission control: I like it because it gives you more information than Expose at a glance. However, it should be an additional view to the current "all windows" expose, which is superior in many cases because there's no window overlap.

Launchpad: Useless, agreed. Though unlike with a stack, you can access it with a gesture, and you have more power as to arrange things. But I won't be using it.

Resume: I agree that there should be an option to completely disable it, but for me, 99% of the time when I am shutting down or restarting, I want to get back to exactly where I was. I love it.

You are forgetting some key new features, such as Mail and the new Autosave API. Those are my two favorite new features, along with versions.

TheAppleDragon
Jun 10, 2011, 03:15 PM
I disagree. I personally think Lion DP4 is much better than Snow Leopard. But that's DP4 - the other ones seemed much worse. :p

You did make some good points, but I would like to point out my own views. :)

Buttons - They are small and take a bit of getting used to. But you do get the hang of it.

Transition Effects: Up 'till DP4 I would have completely agreed. Now I have to say that the graphical transitions are performing better for me than they ever have before.

Finder/iTunes: Black and White? Oh, you mean the little icons. I barely noticed, TBH. A feature to turn on the color would be nice from time to time, but it doesn't really bother me.

Full Screen Button: Unless I want to use it, I hardly even notice it. :p

Mission Control: The gesture I can understand. But I use Spaces/MC all the time. It works great, IMO.

Launchpad: I think Launchpad is meant to be a home for MAS apps. And you are never forced to use it, the choice is yours. And yes, I guess stacks are easier.

Resume: Completely agree.

Versions: Completely agree. Except for the fact that they removed "Save as..." and replaced it with "Save a version...". I used Save As all the time. :(

Overall: I'd say Lion is a nice upgrade by my books, especially for only $30.

fredcintra
Jun 10, 2011, 03:15 PM
Buttons - The buttons are now small and harder to push. When you hover over one, all of them show their functions (X, -, +). They do not look right and consistent with the UI.

that screenshot is not from the latest build at all
That is the latest Finder:
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3316/screenshot20110610at163.png
The buttons are the same size, same look but with a gray line instad of black
(the close/minimize/zoom buttons are smaller tho)

I feel this less aggressive and more pleasant than the one on snow leopard

Transition Effects - I understand it is still beta. However, from what I see now, the effects are very poor. For example when emptying the trash, there is a lag for the window to pop up.

I dont see this lag on the latest build, the animation is very cool and very fast its done before you even take the mouse off the trash icon, it takes less than 1 second!


Finder/iTunes - iTunes 10 was a sneak preview of Lion's new UI. I do not understand why Apple would go from a colorful theme to a black and white one. It is very boring. Also, the shades of grey make it seem like the buttons are sometimes greyed out (inactive), but they actually work. Below, I think it is obvious which looks better.

I like the graysh icons, I feel the UI cleaner with less colors on it, the icons are very easy to read despite of the lack of colors

Full Screen Button - Full Screen applications are cool. However, that button really bothers me. I wish it only showed up when you put your mouse over it. It simply makes things look more complication in OSX.

I didn't get your point, what's the problem with the zoom button, this button replaces a useless button called "pill" that use to hide the toolbar, I think that hide him as you suggest would bring more complication than simplicity in OS X



Mission Control - The point of Mission Control is to merge Expose and Spaces. However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces. Therefore, Mission control wastes space for me to choose applications on my screen. It simply makes it harder. The gesture for it (4 fingers slide up) use to be for hiding all applications. Now if you want to hide them, you have to do an uncomfortable thumb + three fingers up gesture. Sometimes the gesture doesn't work and takes me into Launch Pad.

People that don't use spaces due the complexity of setting it up, might start to doing with Lion, because it's much simpler to add/remove spaces now with the add space button on Mission Control. People that are hardcore spaces user are complaining about the spaces being linear instead the old grid, but I think the new spaces will bring more users to it. this new spaces are very similar to the virtual desktops introduced in Gnome 3.

The gestures: now I can do more with the mission control gestures than I was able to do in SL, the gestures are more precise in the latest build (DP4) than was on the build you have. the spread gesture is a very natural gesture to the feature and I like this. The LaunchPad gesture is the same gesture that was in iOS 4.3 beta and will be on iOS 5 to access the home, I think very consistent. The swipe left/right to access the dashboard/spaces is very consistent too. Swipe down to access the appplication window is very useful and wasn't there in SL.



Launch Pad - When you get your Mac for the first time, you have three stacks on your dock. Applications, Documents, and Downloads. Launch Pad makes it harder for you to get to your apps since it is easier to open up a stack.

In Lion I don't think that will come with application stack anymore, the launchpad is more complete than just a stack and for people that are used to iOS will be more familiar with it. In lauchpad, you find a more natural way to delete your apps, just like in iOS, than trash them in trash can. you can move apps around putting the apps you use more first. You can stack them in folders just like iOS. and when you delete a app from lauchpad it closes the app if it's open and remove the icon from dock. I like this feature.

Resume - Resume is actually a cool feature as a backup plan for anything going wrong. However, when most people turn off their computers, they turn if off for a reason. I have to uncheck that I do not want to resume when I shut down every time. I wish there was a way to completely disable it.

You can disable it in the new general preferences, but resume is a very, very important feature, because you don't have to worry about saving or, more important, losing data in the documents in case of a power failure or a crash.



The are many other improvements in lion that is not on this thread tha makes Lion far more superior than Snow Leopard

GimmeSlack12
Jun 10, 2011, 03:22 PM
I recall a few things from past OS X releases mainly:
Jaguar (10.2) is waaaay better than Panther (10.3)

a year later

Panther (10.3) is so much better than Tiger (10.4)

a year or two later

Tiger (10.4) kills this new Leopard (10.5)

and eventually

Leopard (10.5) > Snow Leopard (10.6)

Which finally brings us to this thread. Give it time friends... and also wait for the GM to start ranting about how much you hate 10.7.

EDIT: BTW I use Spaces and love it.

labaom
Jun 10, 2011, 03:27 PM
I recall a few things from past OS X releases mainly:
Jaguar (10.2) is waaaay better than Panther (10.3)

a year later

Panther (10.3) is so much better than Tiger (10.4)

a year or two later

Tiger (10.4) kills this new Leopard (10.5)

and eventually

Leopard (10.5) > Snow Leopard (10.6)

Which finally brings us to this thread. Give it time friends... and also wait for the GM to start ranting about how much you hate 10.7.

EDIT: BTW I use Spaces and love it.

That is why I acknowledged that I cannot make a perfect opinion.

that screenshot is not from the latest build at all
That is the latest Finder:
Image (http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3316/screenshot20110610at163.png)
The buttons are the same size, same look but with a gray line instad of black
(the close/minimize/zoom buttons are smaller tho)

I feel this less aggressive and more pleasant than the one on snow leopard



I dont see this lag on the latest build, the animation is very cool and very fast its done before you even take the mouse off the trash icon, it takes less than 1 second!




I like the graysh icons, I feel the UI cleaner with less colors on it, the icons are very easy to read despite of the lack of colors



I didn't get your point, what's the problem with the zoom button, this button replaces a useless button called "pill" that use to hide the toolbar, I think that hide him as you suggest would bring more complication than simplicity in OS X



People that don't use spaces due the complexity of setting it up, might start to doing with Lion, because it's much simpler to add/remove spaces now with the add space button on Mission Control. People that are hardcore spaces user are complaining about the spaces being linear instead the old grid, but I think the new spaces will bring more users to it. this new spaces are very similar to the virtual desktops introduced in Gnome 3.

The gestures: now I can do more with the mission control gestures than I was able to do in SL, the gestures are more precise in the latest build (DP4) than was on the build you have. the spread gesture is a very natural gesture to the feature and I like this. The LaunchPad gesture is the same gesture that was in iOS 4.3 beta and will be on iOS 5 to access the home, I think very consistent. The swipe left/right to access the dashboard/spaces is very consistent too. Swipe down to access the appplication window is very useful and wasn't there in SL.





In Lion I don't think that will come with application stack anymore, the launchpad is more complete than just a stack and for people that are used to iOS will be more familiar with it. In lauchpad, you find a more natural way to delete your apps, just like in iOS, than trash them in trash can. you can move apps around putting the apps you use more first. You can stack them in folders just like iOS. and when you delete a app from lauchpad it closes the app if it's open and remove the icon from dock. I like this feature.



You can disable it in the new general preferences, but resume is a very, very important feature, because you don't have to worry about saving or, more important, losing data in the documents in case of a power failure or a crash.



The are many other improvements in lion that is not on this thread tha makes Lion far more superior than Snow Leopard

I am on Beta 4. I took that screenshot from the web. I still disagree the buttons look very unpleasant. But I wish I can have the old Expose back or at least have an option. Also, I want more control of what function is each gesture. The default gestures on Snow Leopard worked MARVELOUSLY. If I could go back to that default I would. I understand Apple wants people to use Spaces. But people won't lol. I want more screen real estate for expose.

petvas
Jun 10, 2011, 03:34 PM
Resume can be disabled in the latest development preview. Just go to preferences, general and you will find the option.
I also like the Finder in Snow Leopard better. I hate the fact that I can't put the devices on top of my favorites.

kristoffers4
Jun 10, 2011, 03:34 PM
Mission Control - The point of Mission Control is to merge Expose and Spaces. However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces.


I used Spaces all the time in SL, very handy I think....

thejadedmonkey
Jun 10, 2011, 03:37 PM
I recall a few things from past OS X releases mainly:
Jaguar (10.2) is waaaay better than Panther (10.3)

a year later

Panther (10.3) is so much better than Tiger (10.4)

a year or two later

Tiger (10.4) kills this new Leopard (10.5)

and eventually

Leopard (10.5) > Snow Leopard (10.6)

Which finally brings us to this thread. Give it time friends... and also wait for the GM to start ranting about how much you hate 10.7.

EDIT: BTW I use Spaces and love it.

But to be fair, I prefer the UI of Panther more than any UI that came after it. I actually postponed upgrading to Leopard, and then skinned the dock, because I hated the new Leopard dock so much.

Now I keep my dock on the left, so I don't have to look at the fugly foe-3d shelf.

If 10.3 had Dashboard and Time Machine, (and developer support) I'd still be using it. There's nothing that Apple's added since then that I use, only thing I dislike.

petvas
Jun 10, 2011, 03:39 PM
I used Spaces all the time in SL, very handy I think....

I also use Spaces very much and I don't like the new way of doing things in Lion.

nuckinfutz
Jun 10, 2011, 03:41 PM
Well I don't have Lion yet but things like icon color and smaller sizes won't deter me.

Just based on features alone I cannot concur with any statement that Snow Leopard is better than Lion.

Hellhammer
Jun 10, 2011, 03:44 PM
But to be fair, I prefer the UI of Panther more than any UI that came after it. I actually postponed upgrading to Leopard, and then skinned the dock, because I hated the new Leopard dock so much.

Now I keep my dock on the left, so I don't have to look at the fugly foe-3d shelf.

If 10.3 had Dashboard and Time Machine, (and developer support) I'd still be using it. There's nothing that Apple's added since then that I use, only thing I dislike.

You can use SuperDocker to make the Dock 2D.

I also use Spaces very much and I don't like the new way of doing things in Lion.

I actually prefer Lion's way. I never used Spaces with SL because it was a separate function but now that is has been combined with Expose, I find myself using it much more and I also like it.

ScubaCinci
Jun 10, 2011, 04:00 PM
I also use Spaces very much and I don't like the new way of doing things in Lion.

I use spaces all the time and in fact have an app on my Windows machine to simulate spaces. Using it with a hot corner is the WTG.

GimmeSlack12
Jun 10, 2011, 05:54 PM
...I cannot make a perfect opinion.

I can: System 7 > Mac OS X


I kid! I kid!

roadbloc
Jun 10, 2011, 06:30 PM
This reminds me of all the "Tiger > Leopard" threads that filled these forums back in the day.

OP: If you don't like Lion: don't use it. No-one else really cares much. Especially when there is already an active thread of a similar nature in this forum.

If 10.3 had Dashboard and Time Machine, (and developer support) I'd still be using it. There's nothing that Apple's added since then that I use, only thing I dislike.If Windows 98 still had developer support, I'd still be using it. Seriously, I loved that OS.

Takuro
Jun 10, 2011, 06:36 PM
I hate the fact that I can't put the devices on top of my favorites.
This is one of the few things I'll admit I hate about Lion. Apple moved the arrangement of the sidebar to be similar to iTunes, which has "devices" at the bottom. However... when you're trying to access the root directory of a drive, intuitively it should be placed at the top.

Hoping this can be fixed with a hack or hidden terminal command, but I seriously doubt it. It's probably hard-coded in Finder's binaries.

buckers
Jun 10, 2011, 06:39 PM
To be honest, I quite like the look of Lion! :)
Except where you say they're changing the 4 fingers up gesture so it does Launch Pad? Don't like.

It's all personal preference, obviously. Some people will love nearly all changes. Others will hate everything. Same with anything, really.:)

chris2k5
Jun 10, 2011, 07:13 PM
Taking me a while to get used to scrolling. It scrolls like iOS now which is...cool but different.

I hate how they got rid of FOUR FINGERS DOWN. They should've left 4 fingers down for Mission control.

Mrguidogenio
Jun 10, 2011, 07:19 PM
Don't be afraid about the gestures. Just deactivate them and enable them the way you want using BetterTouchTool or JiTouch

labaom
Jun 11, 2011, 07:59 AM
If I wanted a grey operating system, I would just switch back to Windows 98. Color is very important. If Apple is going to put in features like these new gestures and mission control, we could be able to do everything Snow Leopard did in options. Therefore, Apple needs to give more control over gestures without a 3rd party application and let us decide if we want Mission Control vs. Normal Expose. Thats my big gripe. I can understand now people actually use spaces. But for those who just use Expose, it is easier to have it by itself because you can see more windows as it is not small like in Mission Control.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 11, 2011, 08:10 AM
I cannot say anything about this at the present moment as I haven't been able to use lion for the same or half the amount of time, I have used Snow Leopard.

But Lion is such a great improvement.

I mean basic features like Full Screen Apps in itself is sooo much beneficial in normal use and I can now see why Mission Control has only 1D space structure unlike a 2D space structure in SL.

Full screen apps, mission control, resume(I'd pay $99 just for this feature), etc.

Just when I boot my mac into Lion, I get all my workspace as it was. Terminal on Desktop3, Safari on Desktop5, iTunes, Skype on Desktop6.

Universal auto-spell, great UI tweaks, etc. For me, this is worth the same price as OS X Leopard for $129 but Apple has done a great job with this Operating system. Terminal is a life saver for me but it now works so much better under lion; I absolutely cannot explain.

But I'll leave my judgement for later. ;)

kristoffers4
Jun 11, 2011, 08:12 AM
Therefore, Apple needs to give more control over gestures without a 3rd party application and let us decide if we want Mission Control vs. Normal Expose. Thats my big gripe.

But you can decide if you want to use Mission Control or Expose. Check the trackpad settings!

labaom
Jun 11, 2011, 08:33 AM
But you can decide if you want to use Mission Control or Expose. Check the trackpad settings!

I did EXTENSIVE checks before. There is no way (currently) to go back to regular expose in Lion. You can get App Expose, but that is different. I not only want one app to show but all of them like in Snow Leopard. My goal is to get the default functions/gestures from Snow Leopard in Lion.

Like I would prefer hide all apps 4 finger swipe up like in Snow Leoparad. In lion you have to do this uncomfortable gesture which you cannot change. Also I would like NORMAL expose with 4 finger swipe down.

mwaxx
Jun 13, 2011, 12:02 PM
Have to admit, i think Lion is going to be brilliant at golden master. currently, i've used every DP and i think DP4 takes a bit of getting used to from DP3. for example, i got to this thread because i couldn't work out for the life of me where spaces setup had gone. now i know its in the mission control at the top. personally, i think thats a nice looking feature, but theres no need for it not to be in system preferences. what i love about OSX, well, SL, is that everything you need to change is in system preferences. now, it isn't, certain things have moved around, for example, why on earth 'drag-lock' is in Universal access i will never know!
as for mission control etc, i think it is a nice touch but i don't like it. i much preferred expose because it was so much simpler! but i love the fact you can drag apps into different spaces with it. that really is a nice touch, a mixture of expose's simplicity and MCs complexion would make it perfect
but I'm not gonna lie, my motto with SL was always "if in doubt, 4 fingers up" showing the desktop when you nearly get caught doing something you shouldn't (whether playing angry birds in class or making a withdrawal from 'the bank') you could always get out of a sticky situation, poor wording, with 4 fingers up. but the 4 finger away pinch, far too complicated, don't like that 1 bit!
but apple knows it has its faults, its a preview, its probably going to be as different at golden master as DP4 was from DP3. which i think is drastically.
I don't like full screen apps because i like to have safari with me at all times. so i won't be using that but i think your point of 'the icon is in the way' is a bit off colour because i think its in the best place
i don't like the revised photo booth, i think it was better before but i LOVE the new safari. the page switching (back and forth) is genius! that really is a pleasure to use. and my god the downloads button at the top is a work of art! something i loved about chrome was that your downloads were with you instead of having that god-awful extra window that safari gave you. one of the main reasons i stopped using it in SL. but in Lion, i have no intention of even downloading chrome! but there again, i don't like the spell checking feature. it corrects words it shouldn't, a feature that i was hoping was exclusive to iOS. but with all that said and done, i like it! i think it'll be well worth the upgrade from Snow Leopard, but i might keep the SL installation disc just incase! haha!

labaom
Jun 13, 2011, 12:44 PM
Have to admit, i think Lion is going to be brilliant at golden master. currently, i've used every DP and i think DP4 takes a bit of getting used to from DP3. for example, i got to this thread because i couldn't work out for the life of me where spaces setup had gone. now i know its in the mission control at the top. personally, i think thats a nice looking feature, but theres no need for it not to be in system preferences. what i love about OSX, well, SL, is that everything you need to change is in system preferences. now, it isn't, certain things have moved around, for example, why on earth 'drag-lock' is in Universal access i will never know!
as for mission control etc, i think it is a nice touch but i don't like it. i much preferred expose because it was so much simpler! but i love the fact you can drag apps into different spaces with it. that really is a nice touch, a mixture of expose's simplicity and MCs complexion would make it perfect
but I'm not gonna lie, my motto with SL was always "if in doubt, 4 fingers up" showing the desktop when you nearly get caught doing something you shouldn't (whether playing angry birds in class or making a withdrawal from 'the bank') you could always get out of a sticky situation, poor wording, with 4 fingers up. but the 4 finger away pinch, far too complicated, don't like that 1 bit!
but apple knows it has its faults, its a preview, its probably going to be as different at golden master as DP4 was from DP3. which i think is drastically.
I don't like full screen apps because i like to have safari with me at all times. so i won't be using that but i think your point of 'the icon is in the way' is a bit off colour because i think its in the best place
i don't like the revised photo booth, i think it was better before but i LOVE the new safari. the page switching (back and forth) is genius! that really is a pleasure to use. and my god the downloads button at the top is a work of art! something i loved about chrome was that your downloads were with you instead of having that god-awful extra window that safari gave you. one of the main reasons i stopped using it in SL. but in Lion, i have no intention of even downloading chrome! but there again, i don't like the spell checking feature. it corrects words it shouldn't, a feature that i was hoping was exclusive to iOS. but with all that said and done, i like it! i think it'll be well worth the upgrade from Snow Leopard, but i might keep the SL installation disc just incase! haha!

Thank you for understanding my concern with four fingers up desktop. By default Apple should allow us to change anything we want. I know there are programs that allow us to fix it though. But don't you like how Expose is now? You can see all your programs. With mission control its harder because they are grouped together in a smaller part of the screen. Like many people I do not use spaces (and probably never will). Because of this, Apple should keep the option for regular expose (not App Expose in Lion). Also, the UI is ugly. I see no reason why they made the buttons smaller, it is uglier. I am sure there will be a way to fix it. Also, I am not a fan of the grey finder stuff. I know iTunes previewed this, but Mac should stay colorful. Finder in SL is perfect :). I don't plan on upgrading unless changes are made to accomodate those who like SL. I will however be testing out GM to give a more fair review. But I doubt major things will change though.

C64
Jun 13, 2011, 12:58 PM
I never found Exposé very useful when there are a lot of windows open. It always takes me a while to scan through all the tiny windows, and depending on what you're looking for, it can be very hard to find the right one.

I haven't used Lion yet and have only seen videos of Mission Control, but it seems to me it's a lot easier to quickly spot the application of the window you're looking for, and from there you can quickly get to the right application windows.

Bear
Jun 13, 2011, 01:29 PM
Buttons - The buttons are now small and harder to push. When you hover over one, all of them show their functions (X, -, +). They do not look right and consistent with the UI.In Lion System Preferences is there a UI Scaling preference?

If there is, this could help with peoples issues over font and button sizes.

As an aside, did you know in Snow Leopard, Finder has a "Use Small Size" option that affects the buttons in the toolbar? Do you have this enabled?
Edit: This option could be gone in the Lion version of Finder. However, the UI scaling question remains valid.

labaom
Jun 13, 2011, 01:52 PM
In Lion System Preferences is there a UI Scaling preference?

If there is, this could help with peoples issues over font and button sizes.

As an aside, did you know in Snow Leopard, Finder has a "Use Small Size" option that affects the buttons in the toolbar? Do you have this enabled?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I checked finder there is nothing. I am talking about that the button size in Lion is smaller thus uglier than Snow Leopard.

Yamcha
Jun 13, 2011, 03:11 PM
I like the GUI of Lion much better, infact after using Lion for a while Snow Leopard looks ugly in comparison :P

petvas
Jun 13, 2011, 03:38 PM
I like the GUI of Lion much better, infact after using Lion for a while Snow Leopard looks ugly in comparison :P

I feel different. I like both but I still prefer Snow Leopard. The differences aren't that big though.

maclaptop
Jun 13, 2011, 06:10 PM
I remain steadfast in my position. To be fair I'm taking a wait and see approach.

Although after well over a decade of looking forward to, and enjoying each and every OS upgrade that Apple created for the Mac, this is the one time that my initial feelings contain no excitement or expectations whatsoever.

It's a new day (which is good) but we are now dealing with a very unpredictable and vastly changed Apple (as a company), which is either good or bad depending on each of our preferences.

Not being one for the fluff and eye candy just for the sake of "wowing" people in the stores and once they take their shiny new iToys home, I have a less than positive feel about the iOS influence in OS X. I hope I'm wrong and there are things that I find beneficial enough to make it worthwhile.

Yet that said, I've been following it very closely and so far it's too much Toys R US and not enough serious productivity.

Oh well, all good things must come to an end, I just didn't think it would be Apples Computers this soon. Time will tell.

ErikGrim
Jun 13, 2011, 06:15 PM
I like the GUI of Lion much better, infact after using Lion for a while Snow Leopard looks ugly in comparison :P

QFT™. It's shocking how quickly the bloated close/minimize/zoom buttons and the rounded pill buttons dated after just a few months of using Lion.

ErikGrim
Jun 13, 2011, 06:15 PM
I hope I'm wrong…Trust me. You are.

Reach9
Jun 13, 2011, 06:37 PM
As long as i can edit the sidebar icons to make them colorful again. Then Lion > Snow Leopard.

Jagardn
Jun 13, 2011, 09:38 PM
I recall a few things from past OS X releases mainly:
Jaguar (10.2) is waaaay better than Panther (10.3)

a year later

Panther (10.3) is so much better than Tiger (10.4)

a year or two later

Tiger (10.4) kills this new Leopard (10.5)

and eventually

Leopard (10.5) > Snow Leopard (10.6)

Which finally brings us to this thread. Give it time friends... and also wait for the GM to start ranting about how much you hate 10.7.

EDIT: BTW I use Spaces and love it.

Yup exactly, everyone is afraid of change, but in my opinion Lion looks like a change for the better. :D

emiljan
Jun 13, 2011, 09:46 PM
One thing i personally don't like is the gestures because now i have to use three fingers to highlight something or move it.

I like the SL behavior better, where i can just click and drag to move or select something.

Jagardn
Jun 13, 2011, 09:50 PM
One thing i personally don't like is the gestures because now i have to use three fingers to highlight something or move it.

I like the SL behavior better, where i can just click and drag to move or select something.

huh:confused:
Are you talking about in Launchpad or a Finder window?

emiljan
Jun 13, 2011, 10:28 PM
huh:confused:
Are you talking about in Launchpad or a Finder window?

Anywhere. weather its the finder window or a document.

ajvizzgamer101
Jun 13, 2011, 11:03 PM
UI:

Buttons - I agree with this that it is more annoying to press but it does save space.

Transition Effects - Beta, all I can say here.

Finder/iTunes - I can go both ways on this one. I do like color because it is nicer to look at but I also like the grey because it flows better. My point of view is that your attention shouldn't be on the menus but the contents(Pictures, music, videos...ect).

Full Screen Button - Doesn't bother me... then again I keeps all my applications in full screen.

Gestures/New Features:

Mission Control - Love Mission Control but I never used Space & Expose on SL or Leopard.

Launch Pad - Launch pad is probably my least favorite. It feels like it doesn't belong.

Resume - I think it is pretty cool to have that instant on feel of the iPhone/iPad.

Versions - I haven't had much experience with Versions.

kdum8
Jun 14, 2011, 05:11 AM
If I wanted a grey operating system, I would just switch back to Windows 98. Color is very important. If Apple is going to put in features like these new gestures and mission control, we could be able to do everything Snow Leopard did in options. Therefore, Apple needs to give more control over gestures without a 3rd party application and let us decide if we want Mission Control vs. Normal Expose. Thats my big gripe. I can understand now people actually use spaces. But for those who just use Expose, it is easier to have it by itself because you can see more windows as it is not small like in Mission Control.

I agree with you that it would be nice if Apple gave users the option to switch things back again, but I have to say I like the new mono-chrome colouring much better.

When it first came out with iTunes 10, I was horrified at first and even used the terminal to switch it back again. However after having given it a chance I think it is a big improvement. It is less aggressive and let's one concentrate on the content. Colour there isn't necessary. People also fundamentally often resist change. It is natural.

Still, options where possible would be nice. My betting is though that within a few months of using Lion you won't even notice.

paulsalter
Jun 14, 2011, 05:51 AM
Versions: Completely agree. Except for the fact that they removed "Save as..." and replaced it with "Save a version...". I used Save As all the time. :(


How does this work with templates

I create a templete for a letter, with the basic information I need

I then fill in the info and do a save as, this is then totally un related to the original, it is not a version of it, it's a new file on its own

or

if i have a document I sent to someone, I need to send to someone else but slightly changed, I would save this as a new file, don't want it related to original

tkermit
Jun 14, 2011, 10:14 AM
How does this work with templates[...] or

if i have a document [...] I need to send to someone else but slightly changed[...]

You'd just use the duplicate feature (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html):

The Duplicate feature creates a copy of your document and places it next to the original. So you can start a fresh version using the original as a template.

:)

paulsalter
Jun 14, 2011, 12:27 PM
You'd just use the duplicate feature (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html):



:)

Cheers, but that doesnt mention how you give it a new name

Save As allows you to enter new file name, if you duplicate in Lion how do you give it a new name

The Norman
Jun 14, 2011, 01:19 PM
I manage some Windows boxes at work and the gray color schemes in Outlook 2010 are hideous. It is SOOO difficult to read the shades of gray. It looks very classy at first, but after a minute I was begging for eye-popping colors in the sidebar. Then iTunes followed suit. Not as bad as Windows Outlook, but still less functional than before. I hope it is just an option in the Lion sidebar.

labaom
Jun 14, 2011, 01:33 PM
I manage some Windows boxes at work and the gray color schemes in Outlook 2010 are hideous. It is SOOO difficult to read the shades of gray. It looks very classy at first, but after a minute I was begging for eye-popping colors in the sidebar. Then iTunes followed suit. Not as bad as Windows Outlook, but still less functional than before. I hope it is just an option in the Lion sidebar.

I mean UI can ALWAYS be changed. Like iTunes here is a theme.. http://macthemes.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=16805795

This makes the theme look more Snow Leopardish.

I am sure on the same site they will "fix" Lion.

My main gripe is the gestures and lack of NORMAL expose.

Icy1007
Jun 15, 2011, 12:56 AM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 4: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

You'd just use the duplicate feature (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html):



:)

Cheers, but that doesnt mention how you give it a new name

Save As allows you to enter new file name, if you duplicate in Lion how do you give it a new name

Wth are you talking about?
1. Select file. 2. Press enter. 3. Rename file. 4. Done.

paulsalter
Jun 15, 2011, 03:10 AM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 4: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



Wth are you talking about?
1. Select file. 2. Press enter. 3. Rename file. 4. Done.

Ok,

So when you do the save as duplicate feature is brings up a standard save as box, where you do as you mention above

I am not talking about Finder incase that is what you wrote about

Snow Leopard, open a document, go to Save As and give it a new name
Lion, Go to save as Duplicate, how do I give it a new name ? as Save As dosnt exist

tkermit
Jun 23, 2011, 08:53 AM
This reminds me of all the "Tiger > Leopard" threads that filled these forums back in the day.

Well...when it comes to Exposé, I actually still feel that there's some truth to that. :p I'm expecting to like Lion's Exposé a bit more again, though, because as far as I can tell from the information out there, it appears to keep window size relations mostly intact and doesn't try to arrange windows in a perfect grid.

Tiger:
http://f.cl.ly/items/2B1H2N1N2T0z17242P43/tiger.jpg

Snow Leopard:
http://f.cl.ly/items/0V3l1e3r0M3c0J0V460T/sl.jpg

haravikk
Jun 24, 2011, 07:41 AM
Buttons - The buttons are now small and harder to push. When you hover over one, all of them show their functions (X, -, +). They do not look right and consistent with the UI.
They show their functions like that in Snow Leopard too? It's a feature I like as I use the graphite appearance for them, and it works well, and smaller and crisper is better IMO, though I can understand that it maybe a pain on high resolution displays, but I use keyboard shortcuts for closing/minimising/maximising windows most of the time anyway.

Finder/iTunes - iTunes 10 was a sneak preview of Lion's new UI. I do not understand why Apple would go from a colorful theme to a black and white one. It is very boring. Also, the shades of grey make it seem like the buttons are sometimes greyed out (inactive), but they actually work. Below, I think it is obvious which looks better.
I actually really hated the updated iTunes look, but it's actually really grown on me. When you compare them, the unified look is much sleeker and less intrusive than the chaos of colour look; it does mean that the icons need to be very clear if the names aren't available, but I like it. An OS shouldn't be colourful and garish, it should be something you hardly see as it becomes a background to what you're doing.

Granted animation doesn't fit this motif, but if it's actually giving a sense of what you're doing, then it's actually an important element.

This is why OS X is becoming more and more sleek and usable, while Windows is playing catch-up, as Microsoft are still at the "make it colourful and flashy like a children's toy" stage, and while it's pretty to look at it, it's horrible to use, as minimalist and functional is what we need from an OS, so the focus can be on what I want to do.

Mission Control - The point of Mission Control is to merge Expose and Spaces. However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces.
Can you not just use Exposé as before if you like? And aren't Dashboard, Spaces, and Fullscreen Apps all handled the same way in Mission Control? So it seems like it's not just a case of Spaces + Exposé.

I don't use Spaces either, but with the unified location I may actually be more inclined to. It also seems an even more elegant way to handle things, as it rolls together Spaces, Dashboard, and both full-desktop and application Exposé in a way that ought to be more useful than ever.

ErikGrim
Jun 28, 2011, 10:17 PM
Ok,

So when you do the save as duplicate feature is brings up a standard save as box, where you do as you mention above

I am not talking about Finder incase that is what you wrote about

Snow Leopard, open a document, go to Save As and give it a new name
Lion, Go to save as Duplicate, how do I give it a new name ? as Save As dosnt exist

Versions menu -> Duplicate -> Save -> Enter name

labaom
Jun 29, 2011, 05:48 AM
They show their functions like that in Snow Leopard too? It's a feature I like as I use the graphite appearance for them, and it works well, and smaller and crisper is better IMO, though I can understand that it maybe a pain on high resolution displays, but I use keyboard shortcuts for closing/minimising/maximising windows most of the time anyway.


I actually really hated the updated iTunes look, but it's actually really grown on me. When you compare them, the unified look is much sleeker and less intrusive than the chaos of colour look; it does mean that the icons need to be very clear if the names aren't available, but I like it. An OS shouldn't be colourful and garish, it should be something you hardly see as it becomes a background to what you're doing.

Granted animation doesn't fit this motif, but if it's actually giving a sense of what you're doing, then it's actually an important element.

This is why OS X is becoming more and more sleek and usable, while Windows is playing catch-up, as Microsoft are still at the "make it colourful and flashy like a children's toy" stage, and while it's pretty to look at it, it's horrible to use, as minimalist and functional is what we need from an OS, so the focus can be on what I want to do.


Can you not just use Exposé as before if you like? And aren't Dashboard, Spaces, and Fullscreen Apps all handled the same way in Mission Control? So it seems like it's not just a case of Spaces + Exposé.

I don't use Spaces either, but with the unified location I may actually be more inclined to. It also seems an even more elegant way to handle things, as it rolls together Spaces, Dashboard, and both full-desktop and application Exposé in a way that ought to be more useful than ever.

You are right about the functions thing, my mistake. However you CANNOT use normal Expose in Lion. Only App expose. I want to see all my windows. We should at least have the option. But Apple does not give it. I should not be forced to like Spaces. It is the companies RESPONSIBILITY to accomodate users. However, I am not going to accomodate Apple. I will stay with Snow Leopard. If you think about it there are no new ideas.. just redesigns in the Desktop Environment. Meaning there will be no new inovations in OS's I think...

haravikk
Jun 29, 2011, 09:35 AM
Hmm, that's a bit annoying about not having an the all-windows option anymore, unless there's a key-command we don't know about?

As I've already said; you're not being forced to like Spaces though, they just happen to be grouped in with other full-screen "apps" including the Dashboard, so if you don't have any Spaces, then you won't see any Spaces, it'll just use the space for the full-screen apps instead.

But for those that do use Spaces, or might consider using them, I think it's an improvement, with no major penalty to those that don't. Other than the loss of all-windows Exposé, which is a bummer for me too, but that said, grouping by applications, if it's easy enough, could work just as well, I can't really say for sure without trying to use it day-to-day.


Meaning there will be no new inovations in OS's I think...
The big question really, what innovations do you need? What does the OS fail to do right now? What is currently stopping you from doing the things that you need to do?

While Apple's done a good job of surprising us in the past, I'm not sure that there's a whole lot of new stuff that an OS needs, as we have a good back-up tool built-in, Filevault 2 sounds like an ideal encryption tool, we have Exposé technologies for quickly getting around our messy desktops, and so-on.

I think all the important stuff is therefore covered, so any big improvements are going to be behind-the-scenes. It's much better than having big, sweeping user-facing changes that make it harder to work, which Microsoft are pretty good at pushing into their every release.

kikuchiyo
Jun 29, 2011, 07:50 PM
However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces.

My thoughts are that "I use Spaces." Simplified (only 4) but I use them. I can't say whether Lion's implementation will be better for me or not (though I'm sure I'll get used to it), but maybe your anecdotal evidence isn't all it's cracked up to be?

kdum8
Jun 29, 2011, 09:24 PM
My thoughts are that "I use Spaces." Simplified (only 4) but I use them. I can't say whether Lion's implementation will be better for me or not (though I'm sure I'll get used to it), but maybe your anecdotal evidence isn't all it's cracked up to be?

Hear, hear. I also use spaces all the time as do many users. User labaom doesn't know what he is talking about.

JKK photography
Jun 29, 2011, 10:06 PM
...However, I am not going to accomodate Apple. I will stay with Snow Leopard. If you think about it there are no new ideas.. just redesigns in the Desktop Environment.

Of course you're not. Stand up to the man. Stand strong, stay thirsty.

But what happens when you have apps that you love being updated with Lion-only features, as will surely happen?

Anyways, lots of innovations. Lots of evolutions. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can discount it. I'd say that LaunchPad is innovative for many users.

If you want innovative in the desktop space, then I'm afraid that you're computing in the wrong time. At least for now, every desktop OS seems rather stable, and built around the desktop metaphor. Windows 8 might change that, but I'm not keeping much hope: Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7. We're due for another shitbomb from Redmond.

Frankly, I don't understand some of the reasoning on this board. All of this for (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html) $30 (USD)? Hmmm, considering that Windows 7 was a relatively small update to Vista in the grand scheme of things, but it cost $190 (http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-7-Home-Premium/dp/B002DHGMK0), this is a good deal.

But maybe that's because I'm relatively new to the Mac. Does Apple usually reinvent the desktop computing metaphor with these updates to Mac OS X?

Jagardn
Jun 29, 2011, 11:18 PM
But maybe that's because I'm relatively new to the Mac. Does Apple usually reinvent the desktop computing metaphor with these updates to Mac OS X?

No, people always whine a lot when things change, its human nature. :D

Soliber
Jun 30, 2011, 01:27 AM
Quite tiresome human nature actually -_-

Tech198
Jun 30, 2011, 02:25 AM
Whats the best way to try out Lion ? After reading this post so far, I do use Spaces heavly, Mission control might not be my thing, & if Resume can't be disabled... that will be a real bummer.

But some of these things... well you have to try to see if it suits you.

Then again, its only $29 .

What do you guys reckon?

Mal
Jun 30, 2011, 08:33 AM
Whats the best way to try out Lion ? After reading this post so far, I do use Spaces heavly, Mission control might not be my thing, & if Resume can't be disabled... that will be a real bummer.

But some of these things... well you have to try to see if it suits you.

Then again, its only $29 .

What do you guys reckon?

Go into an Apple Store and test it? There's no trial available, never will be.

jW

haravikk
Jun 30, 2011, 08:42 AM
Whats the best way to try out Lion ? After reading this post so far, I do use Spaces heavly, Mission control might not be my thing, & if Resume can't be disabled... that will be a real bummer.

But some of these things... well you have to try to see if it suits you.

Then again, its only $29 .

What do you guys reckon?
As cap'n Mal points out you can just try it in stores once it's out. Personally for $30 I think there's no reason really not to get it unless losing Rosetta is a deal breaker (even then there are ways to run those apps anyway, and likely someone will come out with a better way at some point too).

If it's not completely convincing then you can always wait a little while; if Mission Control isn't good enough then someone will develop a new Exposé, or find a way to change it back.

Typswif2fingers
Jun 30, 2011, 08:49 AM
I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces.

I am aghast :-)

All joking aside - all I wanted to say is:

a) you are the first one that I've "met" who doesn't use spaces... (I use them even on my PC, a very cool Cube Desktop)... Could not live without it... (this was the whinge bit)

b) give it time.. new things take time to get used to...

Merkyworks
Jun 30, 2011, 09:11 AM
http://i-dothink.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Mac-OSX-Lion-FInder1.png

vs.

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/3-blog-pics/mac-finder-places-movies.png



So am I the only one that does not like how the left pane of Lion finder window looks compared to SL? I really like the full color apps/folders in SL and like how the menus have that triangle button that lets me collapse and expand the folders. I also much prefer to have my "devices" at the top and not the bottom.

can this be changed at all to look more like SL or am I going to have to change all the icons to custom ones to get that full color look. With Lion and all the folder/app icons being the same color you really have to read the text to make sure your clicking on the right folder or drive ect.

paulsalter
Jun 30, 2011, 09:16 AM
Image (http://i-dothink.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Mac-OSX-Lion-FInder1.png)

vs.

Image (http://www.askdavetaylor.com/3-blog-pics/mac-finder-places-movies.png)



So am I the only one that does not like how the left pane of Lion finder window looks compared to SL? I really like the full color apps/folders in SL and like how the menus have that triangle button that lets me collapse and expand the folders. I also much prefer to have my "devices" at the top and not the bottom.

can this be changed at all to look more like SL or am I going to have to change all the icons to custom ones to get that full color look. With Lion and all the folder/app icons being the same color you really have to read the text to make sure your clicking on the right folder or drive ect.

SL one looks much better to me

Hate the way everything is so grey (looks like iTunes)...horrible

I also prefer the buttons to look pushed in, as now, instead of pushed out in Lion

lixuelai
Jun 30, 2011, 09:32 AM
I use Spaces much more on my MBP than my MP. For my MP I have enough screen real estate. Only times I use Spaces is when running VMs. While I don't see it as a deal breaker but SL's Expose implementation was good and I hope Apple at least leaves it as an option in Lion...

Morod
Jun 30, 2011, 11:07 AM
Another vote for SL Finder over Lion Finder.

roadbloc
Jun 30, 2011, 11:47 AM
Am I the only one who likes the monochrome look of Lion's finder?

That said, it is very grey and drab...

haravikk
Jun 30, 2011, 02:05 PM
I like the Lion look.

That said, I'm also not a huge fan of the buttons; I don't so much mind the active one being "popped out", but on the inactive ones the embossed effects is much too soft; Snow Leopard's button effects are much sharper looking.

I quite like the sidebar in iTunes, and Lion, though I do agree that not having devices at the top is a strange one, as it seems to break the precedent only recently renewed in iTunes where libraries are on top.

That said though; I access the devices a lot less frequently than I do documents, movies, and pictures, so it may actually be a useful change once I'm used to it, and it may actually be better as it means removable devices shouldn't disrupt the layout like they do in Snow Leopard by pushing everything else down.


I think though that the "drab" look is actually a good thing; it's not as pretty, but the very neutral scheme means that it's all very unobtrusive and out of the way, unlike Windows 7 which is throwing as much in your face as possible, and getting in the way as a result, which your OS shouldn't really do.

Yamcha
Jun 30, 2011, 02:22 PM
I actually really like the new user interface & features in Lion, I've used Developer Preview 3 and I'd say the experience was pretty great, In my opinion better then what Snow Leopard has to offer..

The only downer for me has to be no Rosetta support, and I think Lion uses more memory, so might be an issue if you don't have at least 3-4GB..

PBP
Jun 30, 2011, 02:52 PM
The slider buttons in Finder are removed in Developer Preview 3 :rolleyes:
It looks like this now, seems fine to me
http://www.macstories.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/newmapicon.png

labaom
Jun 30, 2011, 07:07 PM
Of course you're not. Stand up to the man. Stand strong, stay thirsty.

But what happens when you have apps that you love being updated with Lion-only features, as will surely happen?

Anyways, lots of innovations. Lots of evolutions. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can discount it. I'd say that LaunchPad is innovative for many users.

If you want innovative in the desktop space, then I'm afraid that you're computing in the wrong time. At least for now, every desktop OS seems rather stable, and built around the desktop metaphor. Windows 8 might change that, but I'm not keeping much hope: Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7. We're due for another shitbomb from Redmond.

Frankly, I don't understand some of the reasoning on this board. All of this for (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html) $30 (USD)? Hmmm, considering that Windows 7 was a relatively small update to Vista in the grand scheme of things, but it cost $190 (http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-7-Home-Premium/dp/B002DHGMK0), this is a good deal.

But maybe that's because I'm relatively new to the Mac. Does Apple usually reinvent the desktop computing metaphor with these updates to Mac OS X?

Oh yea for sure Apple is going to find a way to make things for Lion only. But it would be stupid if they did. Snow Leopard is much different internally than Leopard and Leopard to Tiger. Lion has no inside enhancements. So in reality it could last as long as Lion last. But in Steve Job's world I give it 2-3 more years.

JKK photography
Jun 30, 2011, 07:10 PM
Oh yea for sure Apple is going to find a way to make things for Lion only. But it would be stupid if they did. Snow Leopard is much different internally than Leopard and Leopard to Tiger. Lion has no inside enhancements. So in reality it could last as long as Lion last. But in Steve Job's world I give it 2-3 more years.

Sure. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html)

Sounds like you'll be enjoying Windows 8 in a year or so, lol. Vote with your wallet, my friend!

labaom
Jun 30, 2011, 07:43 PM
Sure. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html)

Sounds like you'll be enjoying Windows 8 in a year or so, lol. Vote with your wallet, my friend!

Was that sarcasm? No I like Mac OSX. I just don't like where it is heading.

JKK photography
Jun 30, 2011, 08:46 PM
Was that sarcasm? No I like Mac OSX. I just don't like where it is heading.

No, Im being serious. It only makes sense to vote with your wallet when you don't like the direction something is heading.

canadianpj
Jun 30, 2011, 10:02 PM
Don't install if you don't like it. The bits about voting with your wallet are right overall I guess. I'm installing, looks fine to me. Not sure why this is a three page thread so far.

If you want to use it. use it. If not, don't use it. Move on.

Jerome Morrow
Jul 1, 2011, 01:07 AM
I like grey icons a lot. Why do you think it should be only the way you like (colourful icons)?

spikejp
Jul 1, 2011, 04:45 AM
Can any of the DP4 testers tell me if Lion will in general support all hardware which SL currently supports??

I have a BlueRay burner and SSD from 3rd party manufacturers and wonder if by upgrading to Lion they will no longer be recognized.

I know it is possibly a dumb question, but could anyone with knowledge from DP4 respond??

Spike:confused:

PBP
Jul 1, 2011, 05:06 AM
It will probably work.

haravikk
Jul 1, 2011, 05:08 AM
Oh yea for sure Apple is going to find a way to make things for Lion only. But it would be stupid if they did. Snow Leopard is much different internally than Leopard and Leopard to Tiger. Lion has no inside enhancements. So in reality it could last as long as Lion last. But in Steve Job's world I give it 2-3 more years.
Native versioning, auto-save, pause/resume, and fullscreen don't qualify as differences? What about API support for advanced sandboxing and privilege separation?

Lion includes something like 3,000 new developer APIs; if anything you should be arguing that most of Lion's new features are internal instead of user-facing.