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MacRumors
Jun 13, 2011, 12:31 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/13/hp-preparing-to-take-on-apple-with-touchpad-potential-cloud-based-media-service/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/hp_touchpad1.jpg


HP finally appears set to make its splash into the tablet market, announcing (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/110609xa.html) late last week that its webOS-based TouchPad (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/09/hp-announces-webos-based-touchpad-tablet-pre-3-and-veer-smartphones/) will go on sale July 1st and match the iPad's price points of $499.99 for a 16 GB model and $599.99 for a 32 GB model. The pairing of HP and Palm has been seen as one of the most interesting contenders in the tablet market, although none of Apple's other primary competitors have yet made a serious dent in the iPad's dominant market position.

But an iPad competitor (alongside several webOS-based smartphones) may not be HP's only attempt to take Apple head-on, as Billboard reports (http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/industry/digital-and-mobile/is-hewlett-packard-launching-its-own-cloud-1005227102.story) that the company is also talking to major music labels about developing its own cloud-based music service that could eventually expand to include movies and TV.While the music industry focuses on Apple, Google and Amazon, Hewlett-Packard is quietly making plans -- again -- for its own locker-based service. Multiple sources at the major labels report that the discussions are heating up.

The Palo Alto, Calif.-based computer and technology company is engaged in conversations with the majors about building a cloud service that would eventually offer music, movies and TV shows. Those discussions began a few months ago.The report summarizes HP's past efforts at developing its own music service, a history that doesn't necessarily instill confidence in the company's ability to put together a quality product this time around, although a number of industry observers have noted that players such as Amazon and Google (and now HP) may have an easier time negotiating the complex music industry now that Apple has created a template with its own iCloud/iTunes Match service.Meanwhile, sources are unsure about how quickly HP could come to market, with some saying that nothing would be likely for at least six months. Moreover, sources say that HP has been on the backburner for the majors while they place most of their attention on negotiations with Apple, Google and Amazon. But if HP decides to go forward it wouldn't necessarily be the last to market with a full-blown service, as all three of the aforementioned companies have a way to go to achieve that very goal too.While HP has long played a leading role in the computer industry, it had not made a significant push into mobile until its acquisition of Palm last year. But with mobile now appearing set to become a focus for the company, cloud-based media services immediately become a more important piece of the puzzle as the company seeks to catch up with iOS, Android, and BlackBerry in the rapidly-growing market.

Article Link: HP Preparing to Take on Apple With TouchPad, Potential Cloud-Based Media Service (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/13/hp-preparing-to-take-on-apple-with-touchpad-potential-cloud-based-media-service/)



Thunderhawks
Jun 13, 2011, 12:35 PM
SJ:

2011 The year of the copycats!

mBox
Jun 13, 2011, 12:36 PM
zzzzzzz

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 12:38 PM
As a long time mac user and early adopter (iphone and ipad), WebOS is the only thing that could steal me away. We'll see what happens. And What is going on Macrumors with the snarky comment about HP's online services? iTools has been a disaster ever sense it became dotmac and mobile me.

jedivulcan
Jun 13, 2011, 12:38 PM
zzzzzzz

Today's HP story is bought to you by Ambien.

toddybody
Jun 13, 2011, 12:39 PM
Im very excited for this. Cant wait to ditch my clunky iPad 2 for an HP Tou...ok, I cant say this with a straight face.

Leoff
Jun 13, 2011, 12:39 PM
This is the type of thread where someone inevitably says "I thought this was MacRumors?"

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 12:39 PM
SJ:

2011 The year of the copycats!

If you knew anything about Palm's WebOS you'd know that many of the original iOS designers left APple to create it. It is iOS done right--with retrospection.

tCruzin4lyfe
Jun 13, 2011, 12:41 PM
This ain't putting a dent in iPad sales either. Why get a copy cat look alike when you can get the real thing. I bet the 1st Gen iPad sell more than the TouchPad.

ratzzo
Jun 13, 2011, 12:41 PM
I'm not against competition, in fact I encourage it so that the end user is benefited from it, but this is just copying.. that thing looks exactly like an iPad. Turned off, I would confuse it for one.

daneoni
Jun 13, 2011, 12:41 PM
SJ:

2011 The year of the copycats!

Oh the irony

tCruzin4lyfe
Jun 13, 2011, 12:42 PM
Im very excited for this. Cant wait to ditch my clunky iPad 2 for an HP Tou...ok, I cant say this with a straight face.

Hahaha I started laughing when I first starting reading this, I knew it had to be a joke.

gkarris
Jun 13, 2011, 12:42 PM
Love HP products....

Competition = Good.

If there's one to COMPETE with iPad, HP can do it.

Matching the iPad's pricing is a good first step (Motorola's Xoom pricing was a joke... :eek:).

Apple...
Jun 13, 2011, 12:43 PM
Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (iPhone; Opera Mini/6.13548/24.871; U; en) Presto/2.5.25 Version/10.54)

SJ:

2011 The year of the copycats!

Indeed. WebOS is nice and all, but will it ever fully take off?

TheYellowAudi
Jun 13, 2011, 12:43 PM
If it looks very similar to the iPad, the apps look & behave just as similarly as the iPad apps (look closely at the pic with the email client) except far fewer of them & it's even priced identically to the iPad, tell me again why I wouldn't just buy the known industry leader?

Yawn.

dustinsc
Jun 13, 2011, 12:44 PM
I don't think HP would really be playing to their strengths with this.

dexthageek
Jun 13, 2011, 12:44 PM
This is the type of thread where someone inevitably says "I thought this was MacRumors?"

I thought this was MacRumors?

Yamcha
Jun 13, 2011, 12:45 PM
I like it, has a beautiful UI..

Thunderhawks
Jun 13, 2011, 12:45 PM
If you knew anything about Palm's WebOS you'd know that many of the original iOS designers left APple to create it. It is iOS done right--with retrospection.

If you new anything about Apple you would know who SJ is.

I quoted SJ = Steve Jobs" who was saying "The year of the copy cats"
at the introduction of the ipad2.

I am not against HP, just saying.................

BTW: Even if these people left Apple, it is still copying:-)

HarryKeogh
Jun 13, 2011, 12:45 PM
This is most definitely the "iPad Killer" everyone's been waiting for!

Until next week's iPad Killer comes and goes.

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 12:46 PM
I don't think HP would really be playing to their strengths with this.

Then you're missing the larger picture. They bought the only real competitor for iOS that they can control themselves. Their aim is to out Apple, Apple. I doubt they can do it but i'm hopeful. Apple needs real competition and Android aint it. HP specializes in integrated solutions. the WebOS tablets, phones, and laptops could change everything--if they ever get off the ground.

Apple...
Jun 13, 2011, 12:47 PM
Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (iPhone; Opera Mini/6.13548/24.871; U; en) Presto/2.5.25 Version/10.54)

This is most definitely the "iPad Killer" everyone's been waiting for!

Until next week's iPad Killer comes and goes.

Unfortunately, yeah. Honeycomb blows, Microsoft's concept looks interesting (but tacky) and HP is basically a copycat. :rolleyes:

Rodimus Prime
Jun 13, 2011, 12:47 PM
I was wondering when HP was going to finally get around to launching the WebOS tablet.

I am waiting for the comments on HP coping Apple with cloud base services and that Apple invented the cloud.

SJ:

2011 The year of the copycats!

you are talking about Apple there right.

nwcs
Jun 13, 2011, 12:47 PM
That line about competition being best is so tiring... and not really all that true. Anyway, the web OS has a chance but I wonder if they'll try to piggyback on iTunes again?

Thing is, other than a small number of people who chase the latest thing, their target market (like Android tablets) is newcomers to the tablet. Not many people will be willing to ditch their apps they paid money for to go to another platform that offers largely the same type of thing. What will happen to tablets is a lot like what happened with SLR cameras: Once the investment gets beyond a certain point there is a large disincentive to leave but as long as nothing real is invested on the low end then there will be lots of switching around.

iCrizzo
Jun 13, 2011, 12:48 PM
Maybe with webOS it will be a decent device, I personally have never had good luck with HP computers or anything HP other than my printer. Competition is good, hopefully they will offer something the iPad or the Android tablets don't have. I am loving the way the mobile platform is just taking off, especially with the tablets, yes Apple was not the first to do a tablet but they sure did get the hype built up.

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 12:48 PM
If you new anything about Apple you would know who SJ is.

I quoted SJ = Steve Jobs"

BTW: Even if these people left Apple, it is still copying:-)

I've been on mac rumors since last decade and this account was registered in 2002. I think it is fair to say I know who steve jobs is. You decided to quote him approvingly, that means you endorsed his view. We all know what you meant.

So Steve Jobs copied Atari because he built a computer? Please. You're smarter than that.

maflynn
Jun 13, 2011, 12:49 PM
SJ:

2011 The year of the copycats!

That's right. Apple copied android with the notifications but how does that pertain to HP? ;)

toddybody
Jun 13, 2011, 12:49 PM
I'm not against competition, in fact I encourage it so that the end user is benefited from it, but this is just copying.. that thing looks exactly like an iPad. Turned off, I would confuse it for one.

So, if its got a black bezel...it looks exactly like an iPad?

jonnysods
Jun 13, 2011, 12:49 PM
Yawn.

guitarman777
Jun 13, 2011, 12:50 PM
Love HP products....

Competition = Good.

If there's one to COMPETE with iPad, HP can do it.

Matching the iPad's pricing is a good first step (Motorola's Xoom pricing was a joke... :eek:).

I own an HP printer, and seeing as that's as far as my experience goes with their products, I'd still take them over the majority of the other options out there. Thumbs up for competition, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I was really disappointed with their touchscreen desktop machine, hopefully their tablet will be better.

I just hope they play it smarter than Blackberry. Their massively rushed-&-mishandled delivery of the Playbook to the market was a textbook disaster, not to mention the device itself isn't even in the same category as the rest of the tablets out there, especially the iPad.

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 12:50 PM
That's right. Apple copied android with the notifications but how does that pertain to HP? ;)

And when Android's notification system came out people bashed them for creating a poor man's WebOS.

toddybody
Jun 13, 2011, 12:51 PM
I've been on mac rumors since last decade and this account was registered in 2002. I think it is fair to say I know who steve jobs is. You decided to quote him approvingly, that means you endorsed his view. We all know what you meant.

So Steve Jobs copied Atari because he built a computer? Please. You're smarter than that.

Yeah, but maybe he stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

phpmaven
Jun 13, 2011, 12:53 PM
You lost me at "HP"

Love HP products....

Competition = Good.

If there's one to COMPETE with iPad, HP can do it.

Matching the iPad's pricing is a good first step (Motorola's Xoom pricing was a joke... :eek:).

Love HP? I know I'm not alone in absolutely hating their computers. I have a few of their lap tops and desktops that I have to support, and they are a royal pain and dog slow. Loaded with bloated junk and proprietary hardware and drivers that make it a nightmare to upgrade anything or resolve problems.

Apple...
Jun 13, 2011, 12:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (iPhone; Opera Mini/6.13548/24.871; U; en) Presto/2.5.25 Version/10.54)

You lost me at "HP"

I'm sorry. At least they're better than Dell. ;)

maflynn
Jun 13, 2011, 12:55 PM
And when Android's notification system came out people bashed them for creating a poor man's WebOS.

Perhaps, I'm not familiar with webos, so I cannot comment. Besides, we didn't hear google proclaim how innovative they are and how 2011 is the year of copy cats only to have apple blatantly rip off android's notification system but I digress.

To get this back on track, let me say this.
The touchpad looks very sharp, but the Pre did as well, until you got to touch it, and then it felt plastic and cheap. I hope that won't be the case. I can see this being a serious competitor if HP throws its marketing muscle behind it

ratzzo
Jun 13, 2011, 12:55 PM
So, if its got a black bezel...it looks exactly like an iPad?

So you say it's not easily confused for one when turned off? That's just me anyway.

spazzcat
Jun 13, 2011, 12:55 PM
That's right. Apple copied android with the notifications but how does that pertain to HP? ;)

And Android wouldn't have notifications if it wasn't for Apple....

maxinc
Jun 13, 2011, 12:57 PM
I don't care.

mBox
Jun 13, 2011, 12:58 PM
Im very excited for this. Cant wait to ditch my clunky iPad 2 for an HP Tou...ok, I cant say this with a straight face.LOL!!! Now that woke me up ;)

inkswamp
Jun 13, 2011, 12:58 PM
That's right. Apple copied android with the notifications but how does that pertain to HP? ;)

Apple copied Android's general functionality with the notificaitons thing, but I sure in the #$%&@ hope it works better than on Android. I've never understood all the crowing from Google fans about Android's superiority in this regard. Having owned an Android phone myself and witnessing how frequently it just loses track of random notifications, I've always found bragging about it to be suspect at best.

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 12:58 PM
To get this back on track, let me say this.
The touchpad looks very sharp, but the Pre did as well, until you got to touch it, and then it felt plastic and cheap. I hope that won't be the case. I can see this being a serious competitor if HP throws its marketing muscle behind it

The WebOS is the real deal but so was the Amgia. I doubt HP can pull it off but i desperately hope they can.

TheYellowAudi
Jun 13, 2011, 12:58 PM
Apple needs real competition and Android aint it..

I think it IS it. (Just for the record, I hate it). But it harkens the Betamax/VHS battle of old. Beta WAS a superior product. Sony marketed VHS much more effectively, so it became more popular, the technology not withstanding.

I think Android is going to do the same thing. It was the only viable alternative to iOS when the Apple haters needed SOMETHING so it gained traction. Now it's entrenched & popular enough that it's going to be hard to stop, regardless of whether it's a "better" OS or not. The Apple haters & all their friends use Android and it's "great" because it's not iOS & that sentiment will continue to grow exponentially.

Alas, in the end, the non-techies that went with an android phone because it was cheap, quickly realize that both their hardware & software suck A$$ and they end up buying an iPhone, like nearly ALL of my friends have done.

Thunderhawks
Jun 13, 2011, 01:00 PM
Yeah, but maybe he stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

Just a regular Holiday Inn a few times.

Learned how to be a surgeon too:-)

ten-oak-druid
Jun 13, 2011, 01:01 PM
Are there pictures of the HP tablet? All I see are ipads.

mBox
Jun 13, 2011, 01:01 PM
This is most definitely the "iPad Killer" everyone's been waiting for!

Until next week's iPad Killer comes and goes.Im waiting for Electrolux, GoldStar or Amway to come up with a killer one :P
LOL!

Blakjack
Jun 13, 2011, 01:02 PM
I feel bad for HP. They actually have a great platform in palm. Much better than android if u ask me. They just need developers

spazzcat
Jun 13, 2011, 01:02 PM
I think it IS it. (Just for the record, I hate it). But it harkens the Betamax/VHS battle of old. Beta WAS a superior product. Sony marketed VHS much more effectively, so it became more popular, the technology not withstanding.

I think Android is going to do the same thing. It was the only viable alternative to iOS when the Apple haters needed SOMETHING so it gained traction. Now it's entrenched & popular enough that it's going to be hard to stop, regardless of whether it's a "better" OS or not. The Apple haters & all their friends use Android and it's "great" because it's not iOS & that sentiment will continue to grow exponentially.

Alas, in the end, the non-techies that went with an android phone because it was cheap, quickly realize that both their hardware & software suck A$$ and they end up buying an iPhone, like nearly ALL of my friends have done.

How many free phones have Andriod on them, how many low quality phones have Andriod on them? Google is going for marketshare only. Apple makes more per unit and the developers make more per app on iOS....

ratzzo
Jun 13, 2011, 01:03 PM
I believe HP wasn't very smart to compete with the iPad 2 if they are set on those prices. For that, you might as well get an iPad.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 13, 2011, 01:05 PM
Are they going to try the lame argument of Adobe Flash support?

It is mentioned by the other competitors constantly but no one seems to care.

I do like that HP is bringing a unique OS to the table. Instead of predominantly iOS vs. Android, we will see manufactures using many OS including Window and Web OS in addition to iOS and Android. So there will be some uniqueness to each choice.

sined13
Jun 13, 2011, 01:07 PM
Let's summarize this thread:

- "They're copying Apple"
- "It doesn't looks as cool as Apple's"
- "They can't compete with Apple"
- <some random post about another (unrelated) Apple product>
- "Competition is good"

There. Move along...

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 01:07 PM
I think it IS it. (Just for the record, I hate it). But it harkens the Betamax/VHS battle of old. Beta WAS a superior product. Sony marketed VHS much more effectively, so it became more popular, the technology not withstanding.

I think Android is going to do the same thing. It was the only viable alternative to iOS when the Apple haters needed SOMETHING so it gained traction. Now it's entrenched & popular enough that it's going to be hard to stop, regardless of whether it's a "better" OS or not. The Apple haters & all their friends use Android and it's "great" because it's not iOS & that sentiment will continue to grow exponentially.

Alas, in the end, the non-techies that went with an android phone because it was cheap, quickly realize that both their hardware & software suck A$$ and they end up buying an iPhone, like nearly ALL of my friends have done.

1) Andorid is it on phones but has not shown itself to be it on tablets. If WebOS can become it on tablets and leverage synergy (the tech not the MBA speak) to grab hold of a part of the phone market, iOS and WebOS can end killing android on all but the lower end phones. If an Android tablet comes out that works, HP loses its opportunity.

2) Please reconsider the Betamax vs VHS debate. It wasn't that clear cut.

TheYellowAudi
Jun 13, 2011, 01:08 PM
How many free phones have Andriod on them, how many low quality phones have Andriod on them? Google is going for marketshare only. Apple makes more per unit and the developers make more per app on iOS....

Good point. You are absolutely correct.

maxinc
Jun 13, 2011, 01:08 PM
I believe HP wasn't very smart to compete with the iPad 2 if they are set on those prices. For that, you might as well get an iPad.

Exactly my thoughts. Apple's advantage is that they had the iOS infrastructure developed for the iPhone and could keep the prices low on the iPads. I can't see any reason for HP to succeed with a brand new product with marketed at the same price as a now stable, mature and very popular platform.

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 01:09 PM
Let's summarize this thread:

- "They're copying Apple"
- "It doesn't looks as cool as Apple's"
- "They can't compete with Apple"
- <some random post about another (unrelated) Apple product>
- "Competition is good"

There. Move along...

If you want to summarize the thread you should actually read the thread. There is a noticeable contingent of users who maintain WebOS looks great. That wasn't one of your bullet points.

42streetsdown
Jun 13, 2011, 01:09 PM
this could a good product. i dunno. HP hasn't had my confidence in the past though. their printers certainly are a pain.

Piggie
Jun 13, 2011, 01:10 PM
Isn't HP the best one to do Cloud, I mean Apple are using HP machines are they not?

toddybody
Jun 13, 2011, 01:10 PM
Just a regular Holiday Inn a few times.

Learned how to be a surgeon too:-)

My apologies, I didnt know MR had Surgeons gracing it's forums ;)

Id broadcast who I work for, but that would only result in the forum getting shut down and all MR members being water-boarded:cool:

TheYellowAudi
Jun 13, 2011, 01:10 PM
2) Please reconsider the Betamax vs VHS debate. It wasn't that clear cut.

I did truncate the saga for the forum's sake to get the point across. You get the gist.

Ibjr
Jun 13, 2011, 01:12 PM
I did truncate the saga for the forum's sake to get the point across. You get the gist.

Your gist was wrong or you're analogizing with a square peg in a round hole.

aristotle
Jun 13, 2011, 01:13 PM
Oh the irony
iOS - 2007 (Android - 2008)
iOS - Full touchscreen device (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Multi-touch (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Swipe to unlock screen (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Pinch to zoom (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Inertia scrolling (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Notifications (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Apps with configurable interfaces (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - First device with a usable mobile web browser (2007) (Android?)
iOS - On screen virtual keyboard (2007) (Android 2008)

Here is a comparison of what Android looked like before and after the iPhone launched.
http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-like-before-and-after-the-launch-of-iphone/

TheYellowAudi
Jun 13, 2011, 01:15 PM
That's right. Apple copied android with the notifications but how does that pertain to HP? ;)

I dunno if one could say they Copied Android notifications.....they HIRED the guy that devised them! And he got the job done by greatly improving the system Apple previously had in place, in my opinion.

sined13
Jun 13, 2011, 01:15 PM
If you want to summarize the thread you should actually read the thread. There is a noticeable contingent of users who maintain WebOS looks great. That wasn't one of your bullet points.

I didn't read the thread. I should have said "predictions" instead of "summary".

Happy?

daneoni
Jun 13, 2011, 01:16 PM
iOS - 2007 (Android - 2008)
iOS - Full touchscreen device (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Multi-touch (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Swipe to unlock screen (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Pinch to zoom (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Inertia scrolling (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Notifications (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Apps with configurable interfaces (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - First device with a usable mobile web browser (2007) (Android?)
iOS - On screen virtual keyboard (2007) (Android 2008)

Here is a comparison of what Android looked like before and after the iPhone launched.
http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-like-before-and-after-the-launch-of-iphone/

So? it doesn't change the fact that iOS 5 borrowed (copied) from Android, RIM, WinPho 7, 3rd party devs & JB community. Therefore that quote is hypocritical.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 13, 2011, 01:16 PM
The more I think about it, the less I understand the advantages of a locker based media service vs what Apple is offering.

A locker based media streaming service requires several things which are no guaranteed.

1) A wireless network
2) Acceptable network speeds
3) Unlimited data

I feel like Apple's offering of pushing all of your music to every device is a better solution. It cuts the need for a wireless network out of the equation and really wouldn't undermine your data plan.

maflynn
Jun 13, 2011, 01:18 PM
Isn't HP the best one to do Cloud, I mean Apple are using HP machines are they not?

HP has an advantage over others (maybe not over apple) to produce a large scaleable infrastructure for cloud services. Plus I really do like the look at how the touchpad looks. If priced correctly AND they can get developers on board they may have a winner.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 13, 2011, 01:18 PM
So? it doesn't change the fact that iOS 5 borrowed (copied) from Android, RIM, WinPho 7, 3rd party devs & JB community.

Like what?
Wireless syncing?

Huh, I have had that with MobileMe for YEARS.
It is comical to argue that just because Apple is expanding what you can sync and what it syncs with means that they are ripping off another company.

Notifications?
Oh, they bought that from the JB community.

daneoni
Jun 13, 2011, 01:18 PM
Like what?
Wireless syncing?

Huh, I have had that with MobileMe for YEARS.
It is comical to argue that just because Apple is expanding what you can sync and what it syncs with means that they are ripping off another company.

Notifications?
Oh, they bought that from the JB community.

Even though Wi-Fi syncing is just one of the many...you've been able to sync with iTunes wirelessly for years?

TheYellowAudi
Jun 13, 2011, 01:19 PM
Your gist was wrong or you're analogizing with a square peg in a round hole.

I'm gonna have to disagree with ya on that one, but let's not muddy up this thread with that debate.

ranReloaded
Jun 13, 2011, 01:22 PM
Black, Shiny Plastic Rim? Really?

vincenz
Jun 13, 2011, 01:23 PM
Oh the irony

And you're on Apple forums because...? :confused:

SockRolid
Jun 13, 2011, 01:26 PM
Remember the "Apple iPod+HP"? The HP-branded iPod? No? Well I don't blame you.

Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_iPod

daneoni
Jun 13, 2011, 01:27 PM
And you're on Apple forums because...? :confused:

Oh i dunno...i own Apple products and i have an interest in Apple (technology in general) related discussions?

KingCrimson
Jun 13, 2011, 01:28 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

WebOS = FAIL.

skellener
Jun 13, 2011, 01:29 PM
HP, cutting edge....

http://km.support.apple.com/library/APPLE/APPLECARE_ALLGEOS/HT2345/93960_1.gif

ictiosapiens
Jun 13, 2011, 01:32 PM
So? it doesn't change the fact that iOS 5 borrowed (copied) from Android, RIM, WinPho 7, 3rd party devs & JB community. Therefore that quote is hypocritical.

Yeah, apparently its cool when Apple does it, but not when others do.

On a related note, with every new iOS release Devs must be crapping their pants hoping Apple hasn't decided to implement another of their ideas into iOS, making Devs apps useless and killing their cash cows. Cases in question: Instapaper, Dropbox, Evernote, Wireless Sync, etc. Those are like 4 out of the 10 new features announced last monday...

I for one, am liking Web OS, specially their implementation of multitasking, which is very similar to the Playbook's(also awesome). If developers embraced those platforms, we would have real alternatives.

It's a shame snowballs are so hard to stop...

*LTD*
Jun 13, 2011, 01:32 PM
They're always "preparing", aren't they.

paulypants
Jun 13, 2011, 01:32 PM
How many marketing dollars were sunk into that name I wonder. :rolleyes:

KingCrimson
Jun 13, 2011, 01:33 PM
iOS - 2007 (Android - 2008)
iOS - Full touchscreen device (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Multi-touch (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Swipe to unlock screen (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Pinch to zoom (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Inertia scrolling (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Notifications (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Apps with configurable interfaces (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - First device with a usable mobile web browser (2007) (Android?)
iOS - On screen virtual keyboard (2007) (Android 2008)

Here is a comparison of what Android looked like before and after the iPhone launched.
http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-like-before-and-after-the-launch-of-iphone/

Exactly, it's just copy, copy, copy. At least MSFT is doing something different with the Metro Language and live tiles.

brendu
Jun 13, 2011, 01:34 PM
If HP can use their "scale" to get me a Hulu app, a Netflix app, and the top 10 iOS game developers to port their games to webOS (which is supposed to be extremely simple) I would seriously consider dumping my iPhone and iPad for a Pre3 and TouchPad... I just don't think its gonna happen...

Also if you have been following HP and the TouchPad it is clear that HP's target market is in enterprise. They want to take out RIM not Apple.

C.Calthrop
Jun 13, 2011, 01:35 PM
If HP doesn't get developers on board, webOS is dead.

LaDirection
Jun 13, 2011, 01:36 PM
"HP Preparing to Take on Apple..."

Yeah, right.

Lesser Evets
Jun 13, 2011, 01:36 PM
$499 for what? Less. They might cut close to equal in 6 months or more... so buy it and hope.

dukeblue91
Jun 13, 2011, 01:37 PM
although a number of industry observers have noted that players such as Amazon and Google (and now HP) may have an easier time negotiating the complex music industry now that Apple has created a template with its own iCloud/iTunes Match service.

This sums it all up.
Everyone always waits or offers some half backed stuff till Apple comes in and shows how it's done right.
iPod, iTunes, iPhone, iPad and app stores just to mention a few.
They did not invent this stuff totally but improved it to make it easy and usable for the masses.
And everyone comes out with their own mess because Apple has yet again found a money maker.

lacosner
Jun 13, 2011, 01:37 PM
Congratulations on the purchase of your new HP TouchPad, Sir. Here is your TouchPad, your accessories, and don't forget to check out our catalog of applications. We are currently holding steady at 74 pointless apps, and counting!

mactactic
Jun 13, 2011, 01:38 PM
Move along >>>>>>>>

SockRolid
Jun 13, 2011, 01:38 PM
So? it doesn't change the fact that iOS 5 borrowed (copied) from Android, RIM, WinPho 7, 3rd party devs & JB community. Therefore that quote is hypocritical.

Way back in 2001, Apple looked at the MP3 player market and said "Interesting idea. Terrible execution. We can do better."

So Apple rolled out their (yes, somewhat shinier) iPod with a better interface than all the other MP3 players. Then Apple rolled out iTunes with simple media syncing. And the rest is history. The personal media player market changed radically, forever. iPod replaced Walkman and Apple is now the worlds largest music retailer.

Recently Apple looked at the smartphone OS competition and said "Interesting idea. Terrible execution. We can do better."

We'll see how the smartphone and pad computing markets look in 10 years. Some people say it's pee cee vs. Mac all over again. I say it's iPod domination all over again.

rdrr
Jun 13, 2011, 01:39 PM
Flash! Aaaah Aaaah Ah

bushido
Jun 13, 2011, 01:40 PM
love my iPhone but all these new releases show how dated the iOS UI is

840quadra
Jun 13, 2011, 01:41 PM
Oh i dunno...i own Apple products and i have an interest in Apple (technology in general) related discussions?

Some individuals don't understand how important it is to sometimes be critical of a company they love / respect.

I think the key point is to understand that all of these tech companies tend to borrow (or copy if you insist) from their competition to improve upon their own products. The companies I respect are the those that greatly improve upon the invention in an evolutionary way, as opposed to a poor shadow of the original.

Is Apple doing that in this case, I am not sure so I can't comment on it just yet.

Ijustfarted
Jun 13, 2011, 01:42 PM
love my iPhone but all these new releases show how dated the iOS UI is

I love my ipad 2 and think the current UI of ios is crappy as well but I still think it's better than webos ui.

SockRolid
Jun 13, 2011, 01:43 PM
This sums it all up.
Everyone always waits or offers some half backed stuff till Apple comes in and shows how it's done right.
iPod, iTunes, iPhone, iPad and app stores just to mention a few.
They did not invent this stuff totally but improved it to make it easy and usable for the masses.
And everyone comes out with their own mess because Apple has yet again found a money maker.

Apple's competitors put out placeholder products because they have no idea what to do. They think it's better to have something, anything, on the market than nothing at all.

Google TV, for example...

skellener
Jun 13, 2011, 01:44 PM
On a related note, with every new iOS release Devs must be crapping their pants hoping Apple hasn't decided to implement another of their ideas into iOS, making Devs apps useless and killing their cash cows. Cases in question: Instapaper, Dropbox, Evernote, Wireless Sync, etc. Those are like 4 out of the 10 new features announced last monday...Dropbox is the iDisk that Apple was never able to deliver. It works better than anything iDisk offered. I think it's still better than what was discussed for iCloud during the keynote.

spazzcat
Jun 13, 2011, 01:44 PM
Yeah, apparently its cool when Apple does it, but not when others do.

On a related note, with every new iOS release Devs must be crapping their pants hoping Apple hasn't decided to implement another of their ideas into iOS, making Devs apps useless and killing their cash cows. Cases in question: Instapaper, Dropbox, Evernote, Wireless Sync, etc. Those are like 4 out of the 10 new features announced last monday...

I for one, am liking Web OS, specially their implementation of multitasking, which is very similar to the Playbook's(also awesome). If developers embraced those platforms, we would have real alternatives.

It's a shame snowballs are so hard to stop...

Let us know how you like the battery. There is a very valid reason apple did multitasking the way they did... I never got instapaper to work right, can't wait to drop dropbox, it's ok but not great on iOS, wireless sync is needed to cut the cord which lot people wanted....

nunes013
Jun 13, 2011, 01:45 PM
webOS looks very nice. it is as stable as iOS and a lot more than android. webOS will always have android beaten even if they dont have the developer numbers. its just a better OS. however, its the developers keeping it down. HP really needs pull these up to compete. without it, the touchpad might gain some traction but not enough to compete with iOS or android. if they can pull in some developers and this thing starts to sell they might have an actual competitor and apple might wish they didnt put in a bigger bid for palm. i dont think it will outgrow iOS anytime soon if at all. even though their software is both very equal, apple has an app store that will take hp years and years to catch up with. the next two years or so will be very interesting.

maxinc
Jun 13, 2011, 01:45 PM
I just watched the demo on youtube and I can't believe the lag on this thing. Swipe to turn a page, wait 1-2 seconds and the page turns by itself ... amazing stuff. The guy keep repeating "this cool feature" for some odd reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4ZA8kgd_YY

Do you guys know of a better, more recent demo of this device?

spazzcat
Jun 13, 2011, 01:47 PM
Dropbox is the iDisk that Apple was never able to deliver. It works better than anything iDisk offered. I think it's still better than what was discussed for iCloud during the keynote.

iCloud will have better app integration and app integration doesn't count in terms of your 5gb of space with iCloud...

maxinc
Jun 13, 2011, 01:49 PM
even though their software is both very equal, apple has an app store that will take hp years and years to catch up with.

Assuming that Apple will stop here. I think the era of the tablets will be dominated by Apple just as they did with the iPod. Excellent user experience and ease of use, top quality and reasonable price.

manu chao
Jun 13, 2011, 01:50 PM
And when Android's notification system came out people bashed them for creating a poor man's WebOS.
But few people are bashing Apple for creating a poor man's Android notification system.

If you copy and make it better, it is generally seen more positive compared to copying and being worse than the original.
(That is not to say that everything Apple copies is better than the original, just trying to move this away a bit from a pure black and white point of view.)

EDIT: 840quadra (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12748324&postcount=89) beat me to it.

iansilv
Jun 13, 2011, 01:50 PM
I thought this was Macrumors? :) j/k

Seriously I want to see this. Apple is king, but a little competition will only help consumers.

Kwill
Jun 13, 2011, 01:51 PM
Then you're missing the larger picture. They bought the only real competitor for iOS that they can control themselves. Their aim is to out Apple, Apple. I doubt they can do it but i'm hopeful. Apple needs real competition and Android aint it. HP specializes in integrated solutions. the WebOS tablets, phones, and laptops could change everything--if they ever get off the ground.

Android appeals to non-Apple computer geeks.
Apple appeals to those who expect everything to just work seamlessly.
HP Pre appeals to those who want Apple devices plus one more feature.

Jerome Morrow
Jun 13, 2011, 01:53 PM
I can't say that more options, or at least more devices to look at in the store, is a bad thing, but i don't see how it can replace my iPad 2. Ecosystem and integration is nowhere near as complete and i doubt that there will be a device, not made by Apple, with such a great ecosystem in a foreseeable future.

NebulaClash
Jun 13, 2011, 01:54 PM
The copying comments come from the fact that smart phones looked one way before the iPhone, and then look like the iPhone now. And tablets spent a decade using styluses, and then the iPad came out and now suddenly every tablet is a touch screen. So while you can quibble over this feature here and that feature there (and copying does go back and forth on all sides with features), it's the big picture that demonstrates that the market lets Apple set the overall tone of a product, after which they copy it and try to take market share from Apple.

Will the HP tablets succeed? Probably. HP is big in the business world, and they can probably parlay their contacts (and contracts) into pushing a ton of these toward hapless office workers. As for the consumer market, we'll have to see if HP can come up with a good music store, movie store, app store and cloud solution. If so, they will indeed get a lot of the PC folks to buy their tablet.

But man, couldn't they undercut Apple's pricing even a little?

Aduntu
Jun 13, 2011, 01:54 PM
I can't wait to try one of these out. I gave Android tablets a fair shot and they just couldn't get me excited. I'd love to see what HP came up with, especially with the help of webOS.

rmwebs
Jun 13, 2011, 01:56 PM
The WebOS is the real deal but so was the Amgia. I doubt HP can pull it off but i desperately hope they can.

Ditto....it'd be nice to see more competition. I really don't get how even die hard Apple fans cant admit this. Competition breeds creativity. It'll put Apple in a place where they have to pull their fingers our and get some pretty fancy updates released more regularly.

As far as I see it, the harder job Android and WebOS make it for Apple, the better.

jasonxneo
Jun 13, 2011, 01:57 PM
that tablet looks like butterscotch!!!!!!!

hitekalex
Jun 13, 2011, 01:58 PM
And Android wouldn't have notifications if it wasn't for Apple....

And Apple wouldn't have an iPhone if it wasn't for Alexander Graham Bell.

Jerome Morrow
Jun 13, 2011, 02:00 PM
As far as I see it, the harder job Android and WebOS make it for Apple, the better.

Just to clarify. Who exactly was making the job harder in 2007 and later in 2010?

Popeye206
Jun 13, 2011, 02:06 PM
HP and Entertainment.

Hummm.... just don't seem to go together.

Even thought there seems to be good buzz about this device, I think it's going to be odd ball out. Heck even Android and BB are having problems catching on in the Tablet market. Now we have another OS and another potential music store and on, and on, and on....

Good luck!

mBox
Jun 13, 2011, 02:06 PM
let's summarize this thread:

- "they're copying apple"
- "it doesn't looks as cool as apple's"
- "they can't compete with apple"
- <some random post about another (unrelated) apple product>
- "competition is good"

there. Move along...go nucks!!!

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 13, 2011, 02:08 PM
Exactly, it's just copy, copy, copy. At least MSFT is doing something different with the Metro Language and live tiles.

Funny Android was founded in 2003.

Popeye206
Jun 13, 2011, 02:10 PM
The copying comments come from the fact that smart phones looked one way before the iPhone, and then look like the iPhone now. And tablets spent a decade using styluses, and then the iPad came out and now suddenly every tablet is a touch screen. So while you can quibble over this feature here and that feature there (and copying does go back and forth on all sides with features), it's the big picture that demonstrates that the market lets Apple set the overall tone of a product, after which they copy it and try to take market share from Apple.

Will the HP tablets succeed? Probably. HP is big in the business world, and they can probably parlay their contacts (and contracts) into pushing a ton of these toward hapless office workers. As for the consumer market, we'll have to see if HP can come up with a good music store, movie store, app store and cloud solution. If so, they will indeed get a lot of the PC folks to buy their tablet.

But man, couldn't they undercut Apple's pricing even a little?

Even though HP has business customers and they bring little to the table when it comes to "fitting in". Apple has the biggest advantage with it's iOS Eco System. Android next... at least the Apps from the phone will work on their tablets. HP has nothing or very little. Even though it looks like a solid product on the surface.

The bottom line... buy an iPad you know what you have. Buy this... maybe it will stick. Maybe it wont.

Popeye206
Jun 13, 2011, 02:11 PM
Funny Android was founded in 2003.

And it was far from what it is today. When the iPhone came out, so did the erasers and copy machines.

Sodner
Jun 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
If you listen to music on the go its on a IPOD. If you want to "compute" on the go its on a IPAD.

The contest is already over and Apple won. Everyone else is just trying for distant second place.

davidgrimm
Jun 13, 2011, 02:17 PM
The only way HP is going to leap frog Apple is to have something better (as defined by the consumer), not by matching the product and services. Their only hope is getting their employees to purchase them and the confused consumer who thinks they're getting an iPad...

davidgrimm
Jun 13, 2011, 02:22 PM
Ditto....it'd be nice to see more competition. I really don't get how even die hard Apple fans cant admit this. Competition breeds creativity. It'll put Apple in a place where they have to pull their fingers our and get some pretty fancy updates released more regularly.

As far as I see it, the harder job Android and WebOS make it for Apple, the better.

While I generally agree that strong competition benefits us consumers, I really think that Apple, or at least Steve, doesn't think that way. He's always looking to put out a better product.

Other companies will just sit back and milk their customers until a competitor comes along, but Apple seems motivated to improve in spite of what their competitors do.

VenusianSky
Jun 13, 2011, 02:27 PM
And Apple wouldn't have an iPhone if it wasn't for Alexander Graham Bell.

I wonder, back when other telephones started coming out, if there were gatherings at the local community center with a bunch of guys in top hats and tuxedos with waxed moustaches and hairdos arguing about how companies X, Y and Z copied Bell's telephone and how they were all far inferior.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 13, 2011, 02:28 PM
And it was far from what it is today. When the iPhone came out, so did the erasers and copy machines.

Same could be the same about iOS and Apple.

cffry
Jun 13, 2011, 02:33 PM
Can anyone link me to the "FLASH!" commercial? I find it hilarious.

linux2mac
Jun 13, 2011, 02:36 PM
SJ:

2011 The year of the copycats!

"Our competitors are flummoxed."

Nebrie
Jun 13, 2011, 02:37 PM
It looks like HP has gobbled Palm whole and extinguished the little bit of Apple goodness that Rubinstein brought along with him. Seriously, HP marketing has all the charisma of a rock and every piece of marketing material for the Touchpad so far has confirmed that. I'm 99% of the way towards buying one of them but I'm nervous that HP is going to end up making one big dull mess.

scottsjack
Jun 13, 2011, 02:38 PM
If HP would produce an iPad-sized tablet powerful enough to run Windows 7 they would have something. Apple's 64GB iPad 2 has a faster processor, more RAM and more storage than my last Dell laptop. That machine ran XP Pro fast enough to be truly useful even for Photoshop.

A Windows 7 tablet with HDMI, MDP, USB and Gigabit Ethernet would be a seriously useful tool. I would prefer an OS X tablet but Windows 7 is also a very good operating system. Much of what I can do in OS X can also be done in Windows.

Come on HP, make something unique, not just another more powerful phone that doesn't make calls.

Aduntu
Jun 13, 2011, 02:41 PM
While I generally agree that strong competition benefits us consumers, I really think that Apple, or at least Steve, doesn't think that way. He's always looking to put out a better product.

Other companies will just sit back and milk their customers until a competitor comes along, but Apple seems motivated to improve in spite of what their competitors do.

Steve Jobs, or Apple for that matter, has the same objective as any other company -- make the most amount of money with the smallest investment. Releasing a 10 month old phone in a different color is not improving. It was a strategic move to recapitalize on an older product. Apple milks its customers just as much as the next company. The entire premise of brand loyalty is milking customers. Where Apple does a far better job is marketing, and leading customers to believe that Apple has this irresistible urge to create amazing products because that's their universal calling.

Tiger8
Jun 13, 2011, 02:41 PM
It just puzzles me how EXPENSIVE those devices are. I don't see how HP, Dell, Asus, Samsung, ViewSonic, and all the rest don't get it.

The only way to make any sort of dent in iPad sales is to provide something comparable at cheaper price. Why pay $499 for the copycat when you can get the real thing for $499?

There are rumors about Amazon tablet, and they claim that it will be competitively priced. Now that might win.

aristotle
Jun 13, 2011, 02:47 PM
If HP would produce an iPad-sized tablet powerful enough to run Windows 7 they would have something. Apple's 64GB iPad 2 has a faster processor, more RAM and more storage than my last Dell laptop. That machine ran XP Pro fast enough to be truly useful even for Photoshop.

A Windows 7 tablet with HDMI, MDP, USB and Gigabit Ethernet would be a seriously useful tool. I would prefer an OS X tablet but Windows 7 is also a very good operating system. Much of what I can do in OS X can also be done in Windows.

Come on HP, make something unique, not just another more powerful phone that doesn't make calls.
It sounds like you prefer laptops. Why do you insist they create a tablet that is basically a laptop that costs more and lacks a keyboard? Just stick with laptops if tablets are not right for you.

Several companies tried to sell your idea of a tablet for 10 years and they managed to sell less of them combined than the number of iPad 1 units sold.

NebulaClash
Jun 13, 2011, 02:53 PM
It sounds like you prefer laptops. Why do you insist they create a tablet that is basically a laptop that costs more and lacks a keyboard? Just stick with laptops if tablets are not right for you.

Several companies tried to sell your idea of a tablet for 10 years and they managed to sell less of them combined than the number of iPad 1 units sold.

Exactly. The biggest mistake Microsoft is making is to put Windows 8 on everything, tablets included. This mistake is actually viewed as a strength by some, but it's a mistake because it's trying to shoehorn the old PC paradigm to a Post PC product. That's what always happens when eras change, with some folks insisting on using the new device the old way (3270 boards in early PCs to make them work like mainframe terminals, for instance).

If you need a full-blow PC OS, get a PC. Tablets are post PC and they need their own OS.

davidgrimm
Jun 13, 2011, 02:58 PM
Steve Jobs, or Apple for that matter, has the same objective as any other company -- make the most amount of money with the smallest investment. Releasing a 10 month old phone in a different color is not improving. It was a strategic move to recapitalize on an older product. Apple milks its customers just as much as the next company. The entire premise of brand loyalty is milking customers. Where Apple does a far better job is marketing, and leading customers to believe that Apple has this irresistible urge to create amazing products because that's their universal calling.

You're reading skills are lacking.

I never said they didn't exist to make money.

The white iPhone was supposed to be released when the black one was, but had technical problems. Apple waited to release it until it was fixed. Other companies would have shoveled that out the door and hoped nobody whined too loudly. Oh, and some did consider a color choice to be an improvement.

Brand loyalty is not milking your customers. Maybe I would have been clearer by using the term "screwing" instead of milking. Screwing your customers is where you continue to ship flawed and overpriced crap because there is no viable competition, e.g. ATT and its stellar network and a 2 year contract.

Apple products do work better for me. They're not perfect, but they're more perfect (for me) then the competition, so far. It looks like its going to stay that way for a while too, as this HP product doesn't seem to be an improvement over the iPad.

dacapo
Jun 13, 2011, 02:59 PM
Im waiting for Electrolux, GoldStar or Amway to come up with a killer one :P
LOL!

I think LG is the new GoldStar.... And I mean that in more than one way!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldStar

Ralion
Jun 13, 2011, 03:01 PM
It's the software, stupid!

I think most of you fail to realize that HPalm is not Samsung trying to "copy" the UI and usability of the iPad. webOS is a completely superior platform to Android and the multitasking and Synergy really out does iOS.

This comes from a lifelong Mac user, who is self employed in Mac centric IT support, and who owns an iPad.

The biggest advantages that Apple has are: The huge ecosystem/app store, and the fact that most of the current/past tablet competition is TRASH. The ipad is an excellent product hardware wise with perfect SIMPLE single app uses. If someone interested in productivity and true live multitasking/notifications used an webOS device they would see the advantages.

HP/Palm need to overcome their justly deserved reputation for shoddy hardware (Pre) launches and deadline failures. If HP gets their hardware under control and manages to get some really top tier launch partners to bolster their app catalog... I suspect we will see the first true iPad competitor. Notice I say competitor not killer.

Just my two cents

iMaci7
Jun 13, 2011, 03:11 PM
iOS - 2007 (Android - 2008)
iOS - Full touchscreen device (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Multi-touch (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Swipe to unlock screen (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Pinch to zoom (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Inertia scrolling (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Notifications (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Apps with configurable interfaces (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - First device with a usable mobile web browser (2007) (Android?)
iOS - On screen virtual keyboard (2007) (Android 2008)

Here is a comparison of what Android looked like before and after the iPhone launched.
http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-like-before-and-after-the-launch-of-iphone/

Love this post.

paul4339
Jun 13, 2011, 03:12 PM
Then you're missing the larger picture. They bought the only real competitor for iOS that they can control themselves. Their aim is to out Apple, Apple. I doubt they can do it but i'm hopeful. Apple needs real competition and Android aint it. HP specializes in integrated solutions. the WebOS tablets, phones, and laptops could change everything--if they ever get off the ground.

Unlikely.
"building a cloud service that would eventually offer music, movies and TV shows"... Building an ecosystem to compete against Apple AND Google??

"Integrating tablets/phones/laptops" ... they have to compete against Windows 8 then as well.

"HP has been on the backburner for the majors while they place most of their attention on negotiations with Apple, Google and Amazon"... no kidding, and RIM and Microsoft is also trying to jump in. It's going to be difficult for them to succeed.



Android appeals to non-Apple computer geeks.
Apple appeals to those who expect everything to just work seamlessly.
HP Pre appeals to those who want Apple devices plus one more feature.


Agree.
It's probably better for them team with up Microsoft at this point (let MS deal with software, and HP can deal with the hardware)

Aduntu
Jun 13, 2011, 03:33 PM
You're reading skills are lacking.

I never said they didn't exist to make money.

The white iPhone was supposed to be released when the black one was, but had technical problems. Apple waited to release it until it was fixed. Other companies would have shoveled that out the door and hoped nobody whined too loudly. Oh, and some did consider a color choice to be an improvement.

Brand loyalty is not milking your customers. Maybe I would have been clearer by using the term "screwing" instead of milking. Screwing your customers is where you continue to ship flawed and overpriced crap because there is no viable competition, e.g. ATT and its stellar network and a 2 year contract.

Apple products do work better for me. They're not perfect, but they're more perfect (for me) then the competition, so far. It looks like its going to stay that way for a while too, as this HP product doesn't seem to be an improvement over the iPad.

My reading skills are lacking? Interesting.

Apple could have, and maybe should have, waited to release a white iPhone with the next iteration. Or, they could have lowered the price, considering its old technology. Instead, they locked more people into two year contracts when the next iPhone, which will undoubted come in white at launch, is right around the corner. Your blatant generalization that other companies would have "shoveled it out the door" is simply ignorant.

If you think screwing your customers is the act of shipping products lacking in something, you've just defined Apple. How many times has Apple implemented new, albeit great, features that were available far sooner on other devices?

NebulaClash
Jun 13, 2011, 03:38 PM
The iPhone 4 is current technology regardless of color, unless you are playing the check list game where competitors win because they include some new doodad into the equation. And nobody forced anyone to buy a white iPhone and get a contract. Customers did that to themselves willingly because they wanted what Apple was selling. And right around the corner is more like 6 months by the time the next iPhone comes out in September. I realize 6 months is two generations of Android phones, but for non-geeks that's a decent amount of time.

Most people do not buy a new iPhone every time a new model comes out. Most skip a generation. So the iPhone 4 buyers will skip the 4S (or 5) and wait for the LTE version in 2012. Nothing wrong with that strategy.

I fail to see how Apple did anything wrong except to people who demand the world cater to them.

Kranchammer
Jun 13, 2011, 03:39 PM
Some individuals don't understand how important it is to sometimes be critical of a company they love / respect.

I think the key point is to understand that all of these tech companies tend to borrow (or copy if you insist) from their competition to improve upon their own products. The companies I respect are the those that greatly improve upon the invention in an evolutionary way, as opposed to a poor shadow of the original.

Is Apple doing that in this case, I am not sure so I can't comment on it just yet.

Hey partner, we don't take kindly to logical, reasonable, and fair-minded arguments out in this here NO U type discussion.

Aduntu
Jun 13, 2011, 03:46 PM
The iPhone 4 is current technology regardless of color, unless you are playing the check list game where competitors win because they include some new doodad into the equation. And nobody forced anyone to buy a white iPhone and get a contract. Customers did that to themselves willingly because they wanted what Apple was selling. And right around the corner is more like 6 months by the time the next iPhone comes out in September. I realize 6 months is two generations of Android phones, but for non-geeks that's a decent amount of time.

Most people do not buy a new iPhone every time a new model comes out. Most skip a generation. So the iPhone 4 buyers will skip the 4S (or 5) and wait for the LTE version in 2012. Nothing wrong with that strategy.

I fail to see how Apple did anything wrong except to people who demand the world cater to them.

iPhone 4 is not current technology. The definition of current completely contradicts that notion. When multiple other devices have more advanced and superior features, the device in question is no longer current.

No one was forced to do anything. However, Apple was well aware that millions of people would simply see a white iPhone and have no idea they are locking themselves into a two-year contract with a 10 month old device.

I didn't suggest that Apple did something wrong. But you can't put them on a pedestal (like many are doing) when they are clearly looking out for numero uno.

scottsjack
Jun 13, 2011, 03:52 PM
It sounds like you prefer laptops. Why do you insist they create a tablet that is basically a laptop that costs more and lacks a keyboard? Just stick with laptops if tablets are not right for you.

Several companies tried to sell your idea of a tablet for 10 years and they managed to sell less of them combined than the number of iPad 1 units sold.

I think "insist" is a bit strong. I wouldn't mind having a tablet but only if it has a full, open OS. Other than an iPhone I have no interest in iOS products or their competition.

BJMRamage
Jun 13, 2011, 03:58 PM
the HP is probably for people who say "I don't know a Mac/Apple or own one...this is the same price...I'll just go with that."

ThunderSkunk
Jun 13, 2011, 04:00 PM
All that effort, just to make a copy.

There are some potentially very useful, very powerful things that Apple won't let iOS do. But do any of these other companies do those? No. They just make a copy. It bums me out that Apple won't do those things yet, but Moto & HP have no excuse for having no more vision than it takes to come out with a clone.

bwillwall
Jun 13, 2011, 04:07 PM
I hope this makes some good competition, I feel bad for former Palm because there OS interface is so good. I however can't say the same about there phones. Those cheap plastic "nuggets" in iJustines words.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 13, 2011, 04:21 PM
Exactly. The biggest mistake Microsoft is making is to put Windows 8 on everything, tablets included. This mistake is actually viewed as a strength by some, but it's a mistake because it's trying to shoehorn the old PC paradigm to a Post PC product. That's what always happens when eras change, with some folks insisting on using the new device the old way (3270 boards in early PCs to make them work like mainframe terminals, for instance).

If you need a full-blow PC OS, get a PC. Tablets are post PC and they need their own OS.

Windows and Office are the only things MS has to keep falling back on. They already tried another phone and failed. So using Windows is all they can do now.

Hueyfreeman
Jun 13, 2011, 04:27 PM
The hp tablet won't put a dent in apples sells of the iPad 2. What many of you are forgeting is that this is a brand new market (the mobile os tablet era). Their are plenty of customers out there

queshy
Jun 13, 2011, 04:34 PM
A few months ago, when this device was announced, I didn't see how it accomplished anything that iPad 1 didn't. Now, months later, the device is finally being released, and it's even more unimpressive than before. They should have only announced it when it was ready.

kasei
Jun 13, 2011, 04:38 PM
Ok. Let's see it...

NebulaClash
Jun 13, 2011, 04:39 PM
iPhone 4 is not current technology. The definition of current completely contradicts that notion. When multiple other devices have more advanced and superior features, the device in question is no longer current.

No one was forced to do anything. However, Apple was well aware that millions of people would simply see a white iPhone and have no idea they are locking themselves into a two-year contract with a 10 month old device.

I didn't suggest that Apple did something wrong. But you can't put them on a pedestal (like many are doing) when they are clearly looking out for numero uno.

All companies look out for numero uno, or else their shareholders revolt. Don't pretend any other company doesn't do the same.

iPhone 4 is current technology in the Apple universe as you cannot get a phone from Apple that anything more current. Most users couldn't care less what copycat company #1 or #2 has put into their phones. They want the latest phone from Apple. That's what they got.

NebulaClash
Jun 13, 2011, 04:41 PM
Windows and Office are the only things MS has to keep falling back on. They already tried another phone and failed. So using Windows is all they can do now.

That's very true, and sad for Microsoft. So it explains why, to them, everything has to run Windows, but it hardly explains why any of us should care.

gkarris
Jun 13, 2011, 04:47 PM
iOS - 2007 (Android - 2008)
iOS - Full touchscreen device (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Multi-touch (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Swipe to unlock screen (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Pinch to zoom (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Inertia scrolling (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Notifications (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - Apps with configurable interfaces (2007) (Android 2008)
iOS - First device with a usable mobile web browser (2007) (Android?)
iOS - On screen virtual keyboard (2007) (Android 2008)

Here is a comparison of what Android looked like before and after the iPhone launched.
http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-like-before-and-after-the-launch-of-iphone/

I like the "before"... :eek:

And Toshiba gets into "the action":

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20070751-17/toshiba-thrive-tablet-goes-on-preorder/

;)

ten-oak-druid
Jun 13, 2011, 04:59 PM
That's very true, and sad for Microsoft. So it explains why, to them, everything has to run Windows, but it hardly explains why any of us should care.

Well why should we even care that MS puts Windows on everything then?

You made a point of bringing it up. I offered an explanation of your observation: MS has only a couple things in its arsenal to offer.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 13, 2011, 05:00 PM
I used to use HPBasic. It was pretty good. HP added features to the basic language for controlling lab instruments.

The tablets won't be backward compatible though.

ratzzo
Jun 13, 2011, 05:01 PM
I bet SJ is raging. This tablet will be Apple's doomsday... :rolleyes:

gkarris
Jun 13, 2011, 05:05 PM
I used to use HPBasic. It was pretty good. HP added features to the basic language for controlling lab instruments.

The tablets won't be backward compatible though.

HPBasic?

Dude, you just dated yourself... :eek:

;)

cirus
Jun 13, 2011, 05:15 PM
I'm not against competition, in fact I encourage it so that the end user is benefited from it, but this is just copying.. that thing looks exactly like an iPad. Turned off, I would confuse it for one.

Dude, its a black rectangle with rounded edges and a screen (plus camera). ANY black rectangle with rounded edges and a screen is going to look like an ipad.

So tired of hearing this "they're copying" get over it. They don't own the colour black and have a patent on rounded edges (or the form factor). Pretty much all the tablets out there look something similar (excluding colour) cause they are all based on the same principles.

http://www.epicinfo.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Motorola-XOOM-3.jpg Xoom

http://cellphonequick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/BlackBerry-Playbook-Sales.jpg Playbook

Its a black rectangle with a screen and rounded corners. They WILL look the same.

P.S. Why is it always you mac users who cry 'foul' so often. Do you see any of PC people getting upset that two products look alike? Rarely do they cry "copy!".

And guess what, those tablets also look like an ipad too.

Now, take a minute to think (keyword think).
How could they make a tablet that was black, nice looking and aesthetically pleasing and NOT make it look like an ipad. Then multiply your designs by 8 (different ones) because there are at least 8 popular tablets out there.

blueraja
Jun 13, 2011, 05:19 PM
The biggest issue I see is simply that you cant serve 2 masters (or in HP's case 3), they are already selling printers with android tablets, are 2nd in PC and Laptop sales running windows, and now are trying to push their own OS. While I can see a market for what is left of the Palm diehards, I really cant see the attraction for developers who have a choice between Android with a huge array of manufacturers and devices and Apple who has a mature and established market. At best I see them taking on RIM for the corporate market.

Thunderhawks
Jun 13, 2011, 05:24 PM
And Apple wouldn't have an iPhone if it wasn't for Alexander Graham Bell.

And Alexander Graham Bell wouldn't have been born, if it wasn't for his parents.

And none of this would ever have happened if Adam could have resisted.

You see, it did all start with an APPLE!

(at least that's what all the pictures of the "forbidden" fruit look like.

Friscohoya
Jun 13, 2011, 05:27 PM
I think the potential is there to have a really good product. I definitely prefer their method of multitasking though they have a ways to go with respect to theirvertical integration of services and hardware. Plus a lot of people are locked into the apple ecosystem.

carmenodie
Jun 13, 2011, 05:39 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

All I can say to tired a** HP is good luck losers.

zergy
Jun 13, 2011, 06:23 PM
As a current WebOS user (Pre+) I really think HP needs to stop trying to copy Apple's success and go off on their own tangent. imho Playbook/Android keeps is playing the same game MSFT played with Zune and meeting exactly the same fate (BB at least), the game being of course "catch-up". They keep matching features, but its too late (ex. Xoom matching iPad 1, just as iPad 2 debuts). To win its not enough to simply 'keep up' but rather they need to copy Apple's own strategy by ambushing them with new, innovative, well thought out feature implementations at aggressive price-points.

WebOS is, imho the only mobile OS currently in a position to do this. It is an amazingly well thought out, incredibly under-rated OS. All it really needs is some bug-fixes to already be on par or in many ways (Flash, memory management, multitasking, notification) surpass iOS! :eek:

It just needs some good, core applications, MUCH BETTER customer support (as a Pre+ owner, I am STILL waiting for Flash, broken promises over updates etc) and HW (I am currently awaiting FedEx to deliver my 4th Pre warranty replacement in <2yrs).

Until it has the apps, it should be priced much more aggressively to increase adoption and drive developer interest ($299 for 16Gb Wifi, $349 3G, etc.) Otherwise, I think users like me will stick to Apple due to reliability, warranty, and App support, even if we really like WebOS better as a browsing experience!

ZebraineZ
Jun 13, 2011, 07:00 PM
If you knew anything about Palm's WebOS you'd know that many of the original iOS designers left APple to create it. It is iOS done right--with retrospection.

And after the ship sunk :P they jumped back!

azurehi
Jun 13, 2011, 07:15 PM
This ain't putting a dent in iPad sales either. Why get a copy cat look alike when you can get the real thing. I bet the 1st Gen iPad sell more than the TouchPad.

but the iPad won't play flash :mad:

sonicboom
Jun 13, 2011, 07:56 PM
Isn't HP the best one to do Cloud, I mean Apple are using HP machines are they not?

From the Data Center photos that they showed at the keynote, they seemed to be using NetApp gear (for storage anyway).

They're not messing around with that stuff.

Hueyfreeman
Jun 13, 2011, 08:05 PM
The tablet market will not be like the ipod market. With smart phones coming before the tablet and with this market being so new apple will not rule it with an iron fist. Android is now bigger then ever, people know what android is now and majority of the people using android happy, these people will have no reason not to buy an android based tab. They use it on their phones now they can use it on their tablets. Believe or not the name "iOS" is not as well now as "android" the ipad is well known but most people see it as a tablet running the same thing that the iPhone does.

davidgrimm
Jun 13, 2011, 09:00 PM
Apple could have, and maybe should have, waited to release a white iPhone with the next iteration. Or, they could have lowered the price, considering its old technology. Instead, they locked more people into two year contracts when the next iPhone, which will undoubted come in white at launch, is right around the corner.

iPhone 4 is the current phone from Apple. While you may consider it old technology, its their current offering and no replacement has been yet announced. Nobody made anyone purchase a white iPhone. You may disagree with their decision to purchase a white iPhone 4, but Apple didn't make anyone purchase anything. And any contract is with the carrier, not Apple.

If you think screwing your customers is the act of shipping products lacking in something, you've just defined Apple. How many times has Apple implemented new, albeit great, features that were available far sooner on other devices?

You've just proved the "reading skills are lacking" comment. Its not screwing your customers to sell a product that doesn't have all the features of the competition. However it is screwing your customers to claim to have features and fail to deliver and do nothing about it.

Now troll, go back under your bridge and play with your android phone.

jimbobb24
Jun 13, 2011, 09:11 PM
I think it IS it. (Just for the record, I hate it). But it harkens the Betamax/VHS battle of old. Beta WAS a superior product. Sony marketed VHS much more effectively, so it became more popular, the technology not withstanding.

I think Android is going to do the same thing. It was the only viable alternative to iOS when the Apple haters needed SOMETHING so it gained traction. Now it's entrenched & popular enough that it's going to be hard to stop, regardless of whether it's a "better" OS or not. The Apple haters & all their friends use Android and it's "great" because it's not iOS & that sentiment will continue to grow exponentially.

Alas, in the end, the non-techies that went with an android phone because it was cheap, quickly realize that both their hardware & software suck A$$ and they end up buying an iPhone, like nearly ALL of my friends have done.

I have not read the whole thread, but people often compare this VHS BetaMax thing and the truth is...VHS was better. Alot better. BetaMax was better in some ways but was not better in every way. It was worse in the way most people cared. A technology rarely has just one metric and so rarely is one just all out better than another. Android has some really nice technology, but there are many metrics it must compete on, not just one. The PS3 is a little better than an Xbox360 technologically and feature wise, but was introduced at a ridiculous price that could not overcome the fact that the 360 was really close. The Wii sucks beyond belief in graphics, but was introduced with a fantastic new hook that people love.

Finally it does not matter if Apple wins the phone wars and becomes dominant. Apple is making so much freaking money that they will continue to make their awesome iPhone until the end of time.

jimbobb24
Jun 13, 2011, 09:16 PM
The tablet market will not be like the ipod market. With smart phones coming before the tablet and with this market being so new apple will not rule it with an iron fist. Android is now bigger then ever, people know what android is now and majority of the people using android happy, these people will have no reason not to buy an android based tab. They use it on their phones now they can use it on their tablets. Believe or not the name "iOS" is not as well now as "android" the ipad is well known but most people see it as a tablet running the same thing that the iPhone does.

And yet...they are not buying it in droves. I think Android may "win" but so far people get Androids with free or near phones and do not choose it. Well, some people do, but most people just get the cheapest phone with a nice screen and that happens to be Android. And the carriers are happy because they control Android phones.

Not clear on the what the ipod market is? You mean the mp3 player market that had existed and sucked for years before Apple introduced the iPod? That market? Now Apple invents markets. They invented the modern smartphone and the modern tablet. What a crazy world!

onggiadzit
Jun 13, 2011, 10:03 PM
Im very excited for this. Cant wait to ditch my clunky iPad 2 for an HP Tou...ok, I cant say this with a straight face.

You should start to learn Hindi, so you can talk to HP tech support.

Aduntu
Jun 13, 2011, 10:17 PM
All companies look out for numero uno, or else their shareholders revolt. Don't pretend any other company doesn't do the same.


You just made my point. Apple's fundamental objective is the same as every other company.


iPhone 4 is current technology in the Apple universe as you cannot get a phone from Apple that anything more current. Most users couldn't care less what copycat company #1 or #2 has put into their phones. They want the latest phone from Apple. That's what they got.

If you combine the words current and technology, they do not define the iPhone 4. When newer technology exists, devices without that newer technology are no longer current.

You also shouldn't throw the copycat word around when almost every new iOS 5 feature is merely a copy of what is already out there.

iPhone 4 is the current phone from Apple. While you may consider it old technology, its their current offering and no replacement has been yet announced. Nobody made anyone purchase a white iPhone. You may disagree with their decision to purchase a white iPhone 4, but Apple didn't make anyone purchase anything. And any contract is with the carrier, not Apple.

The iPhone 4 is Apple's current technology. That's drastically different from the current technology of the rest of the world.

No one is saying Apple forced anyone to do anything. You're arguing that point with yourself.


You've just proved the "reading skills are lacking" comment. Its not screwing your customers to sell a product that doesn't have all the features of the competition. However it is screwing your customers to claim to have features and fail to deliver and do nothing about it.



My reading and comprehension skills are obviously far superior to yours. What's absent is your ability to debate a topic without becoming defensive and resorting to personal attacks. You defined screwing customers as shipping things that are less than complete. Apple has done that numerous times -- and you're the epitome of a fanboy if you say they haven't.


Now troll, go back under your bridge and play with your android phone.


I'm the troll? That's actually pretty funny. Considering I'm a long time Apple fan and have never owned an Android device. I'd still rather be a troll than an undereducated fanboy with zero debate skills.

zap2
Jun 13, 2011, 10:25 PM
I'm excited for this launch. WebOS is the best smartphone OS currently in my mind. It needs more apps to match iOS and Android, but the notification and application switching is unmatched(currently, iOS changes the game)

When you look at the tablets, the iPad 2 allows for 4/5 finger switching that adds a lot to me, the TouchPad still has the nice advantages of WebOS, but on a tablets, iOS seems to do a better job and I'll stick to my iPad 2 for my tablet.

KingCrimson
Jun 13, 2011, 10:27 PM
I just saw the demo - what a mess.

Aduntu
Jun 13, 2011, 10:44 PM
I just saw the demo - what a mess.

A mess? webOS is one of the best mobile operating systems in existence. If you think HP absorbed Palm for anything other than webOS, you're crazy.

bretm
Jun 13, 2011, 11:43 PM
1) Andorid is it on phones but has not shown itself to be it on tablets. If WebOS can become it on tablets and leverage synergy (the tech not the MBA speak) to grab hold of a part of the phone market, iOS and WebOS can end killing android on all but the lower end phones. If an Android tablet comes out that works, HP loses its opportunity.

2) Please reconsider the Betamax vs VHS debate. It wasn't that clear cut.

VHS Was first to table with EP 6 hour recording. That was all people needed to hear. When they could program the thing to record their weeks worth of shows it was game over Betamax. That's my memory.

But hey, in the pro world Sony had BetacamSP and digibeta, the broadcast industry standards for like 15 years.

ZipZapRap
Jun 13, 2011, 11:48 PM
To win its not enough to simply 'keep up' but rather they need to copy Apple's own strategy by ambushing them with new, innovative, well thought out feature implementations at aggressive price-points.

Agreed whole-heartedly.

Hence my money's on MSFT. A sleeping giant now unshackled from the DoJ's watchful eye.
WP7 isn't blowing sales record away by any stretch, but it's got very very positive consumer reviews (Samsung Focus owners are happier with their phones than iPhone owners), and is growing slowly but quite consistently. The Marketplace is growing at the same pace that iOS App Store did in its infancy. And in numbers, WP7 (once Mango is out) will have more built-in features than iOS (I'd like to see it against Android as well)

http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/iosvswindowsphone.png

Live Tiles are not the "for dummies" 4x4 icon grid, and Metro design language is fresh and unique.

The phones are priced competitively, and hopefully so will tablets... although I'm not optimistic on that latter point. The biggest barrier to Windows 8 succeeding is the price for a Windows license. I hope this is addressed. Consumers won't pay more for complexity.

Winni
Jun 14, 2011, 12:40 AM
Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (iPhone; Opera Mini/6.13548/24.871; U; en) Presto/2.5.25 Version/10.54)



Unfortunately, yeah. Honeycomb blows, Microsoft's concept looks interesting (but tacky) and HP is basically a copycat. :rolleyes:

Have you even used Honeycomb yet? I've played with an Acer Iconia a couple if days ago and although the hardware of that specific tablet can be improved, the software on it was great. I have also replaced my iPhone with a Samsung Galaxy S2 and couldn't be happier to have finally stepped out of Apple's digital iOS prison. Android gives me a level of control that is unthinkable in Apple land. Android lets you own your device while iOS only gives you very limited guest rights.

caspersoong
Jun 14, 2011, 12:51 AM
Nobody I have ever seen in real life has an Android (or anything else) tablet. For them, it is either an iPad or nothing. Maybe because they think that if they are going to get something luxurious, they must go to the top. (I am not agreeing to this or anything)

mac9000
Jun 14, 2011, 01:06 AM
As a long time mac user and early adopter (iphone and ipad), WebOS is the only thing that could steal me away. We'll see what happens. And What is going on Macrumors with the snarky comment about HP's online services? iTools has been a disaster ever sense it became dotmac and mobile me.

This will fail along with all of the other iPad competitors. I agree, though, MobileMe is pretty bad. I expect iCloud to be a really nice overhaul of Apple's cloud services.

mac9000
Jun 14, 2011, 01:08 AM
Nobody I have ever seen in real life has an Android (or anything else) tablet. For them, it is either an iPad or nothing. Maybe because they think that if they are going to get something luxurious, they must go to the top. (I am not agreeing to this or anything)

The HP tablet is the same price per GB as the iPad, and the Xoom (was?) starting at $800, so I wouldn't consider the iPad the "top" price-wise.

mac9000
Jun 14, 2011, 01:11 AM
You should start to learn Hindi, so you can talk to HP tech support.

Ha, when I called Microsoft for tech support (well I was really going to prank call) I immediately got transferred to India. The guy asked me for my name and said they would call back, but they never did. Maybe they hoped I would forget? :rolleyes:

mac9000
Jun 14, 2011, 01:16 AM
but the iPad won't play flash :mad:

Flash = 95% ads, 4% non-Youtube videos on sketchy sites, 1% unplayable games on a mobile device ;)
all laggy
I wouldn't take Flash even if Apple allowed it.

mac9000
Jun 14, 2011, 01:22 AM
This is most definitely the "iPad Killer" everyone's been waiting for!

Until next week's iPad Killer comes and goes.

Yeah, I've seen so many (insert iOS device here) killers on covers of tech magazines. They all go away, and they're never worth competitors. Nobody understands that the success of iOS is due to careful planning, a strong background (iTunes and App Store), and good software rather than a lot of RAM and a fast CPU. Wouldn't the faster CPU just waste battery life? :rolleyes:

MattInOz
Jun 14, 2011, 01:35 AM
As a current WebOS user (Pre+) I really think HP needs to stop trying to copy Apple's success and go off on their own tangent. imho Playbook/Android keeps is playing the same game MSFT played with Zune and meeting exactly the same fate (BB at least), the game being of course "catch-up". They keep matching features, but its too late (ex. Xoom matching iPad 1, just as iPad 2 debuts). To win its not enough to simply 'keep up' but rather they need to copy Apple's own strategy by ambushing them with new, innovative, well thought out feature implementations at aggressive price-points.


I think HP are going to play a different game. They would seem to be in the best position to push pads to business buyers. They can convince Businesses to beef up efforts to convert mobile employees to using HTML5 web apps that the company host themselves (on HP servers of cause) and draw a line in the sand with WebOS that says any other tab must render Web Content this well or better in order to be considered for use in those businesses.

I could see them getting growth in areas Apple might not have been able to target.

Hueyfreeman
Jun 14, 2011, 02:28 AM
Flash = 95% ads, 4% non-Youtube videos on sketchy sites, 1% unplayable games on a mobile device ;)
all laggy
I wouldn't take Flash even if Apple allowed it.

Have you used the galaxy S 2 no lag at all using flash.

chrono1081
Jun 14, 2011, 02:42 AM
I don't get it. In one sentence people claim "Competition is good!", in the next sentence they claim "*insert company here* is a copycat!"

Just pick what you like and use it.

Piggie
Jun 14, 2011, 04:09 AM
Is Apple with it's iOS = VHS and HP with their OS = Betamax

Everyone knew in reality Betamax was the better format without question. It performed better, it allowed more tricks, better stills, quicker tape functions etc etc etc.

However VHS was the format that got all the support and hence gathered enough momentum to be the most popular dominant format, despite anyone who knew anything knowing Betamax was the better format/

Ubuntu
Jun 14, 2011, 04:51 AM
Yeah, I've seen so many (insert iOS device here) killers on covers of tech magazines. They all go away, and they're never worth competitors. Nobody understands that the success of iOS is due to careful planning, a strong background (iTunes and App Store), and good software rather than a lot of RAM and a fast CPU. Wouldn't the faster CPU just waste battery life? :rolleyes:

I really want to know what the CEOs of the companies creating these iWhateve killers are actually thinking. A recent Motorola advert springs to mind where the phone is going through a security scan at an airport and it looks like a laptop on the screen (as if its just as powerful as a laptop) and it claims to be the most powerful phone out there - but who actually cares if the software's crap, or if its not even iOS/Android based (not sure if it was even Android... I hope so), don't they realise its not all about the specs on a piece of paper?

res08hao
Jun 14, 2011, 05:39 AM
HP's problem, like Microsoft, IBM, Dell, Nokia, is that they are suits-conference table committee types.

Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook-not suits.

NebulaClash
Jun 14, 2011, 08:22 AM
You just made my point. Apple's fundamental objective is the same as every other company.

Precsisely my point, but not what you were saying earlier. You were singling Apple out for scorn.


The iPhone 4 is Apple's current technology. That's drastically different from the current technology of the rest of the world.

This is an Apple site, which is why everything said here is with Apple's universe in mind. Most people do not follow technology wars. They just go into the Apple store and get the most current tech.

No one is saying Apple forced anyone to do anything. You're arguing that point with yourself.

You should read what you wrote again.


My reading and comprehension skills are obviously far superior to yours. What's absent is your ability to debate a topic without becoming defensive and resorting to personal attacks.

Ya gotta admit, this is very funny considering what you are saying about me.

supercooled
Jun 14, 2011, 10:15 AM
I always questioned the blind devotion of Mac users when it came to competition. Why is it called anti-trust when Microsoft puts IE into their operating system when Apple has done everything in their power to make their operating system non compliant with thirdparty hardware? This is a sure fire way to be certain only your products get bought. Do they have special dispensation because they are a hardware and a software company? The revolution of the iPod is long in the tooth and the iPad is pretty underwhelming.

I like using a Mac better than a Winbox but there are so many better devices out there than Apple's offerings but incompatibility becomes a hurdle too high to jump.

iMaci7
Jun 14, 2011, 11:30 AM
I dont think it will make a dent in the iPad sales. If Apple were still selling the iPad 1 it might, but, by the time this thing comes out we will be talking about the iPad 3. This is what happens when you follow in the wake of others, the competiton is trailing behind. Id like to try this new device out for sure, and i hope its good, but i have low expectations. Apple spent a very long time developing the iPad, and it shows. HP will need to really put blood sweat and tears into it, dont jam it into the market or slap it together and advertise it as better because it has flash enabled.

TheYellowAudi
Jun 15, 2011, 01:20 AM
I dont think it will make a dent in the iPad sales. If Apple were still selling the iPad 1 it might, but, by the time this thing comes out we will be talking about the iPad 3. This is what happens when you follow in the wake of others, the competiton is trailing behind. Id like to try this new device out for sure, and i hope its good, but i have low expectations. Apple spent a very long time developing the iPad, and it shows. HP will need to really put blood sweat and tears into it, dont jam it into the market or slap it together and advertise it as better because it has flash enabled.

'Zactly! Well said.

TheYellowAudi
Jun 15, 2011, 01:56 AM
Apple could have, and maybe should have, waited to release a white iPhone with the next iteration. Or, they could have lowered the price, considering its old technology.

Instead, they locked more people into two year contracts when the next iPhone, which will undoubted come in white at launch, is right around the corner.

Your blatant generalization that other companies would have "shoveled it out the door" is simply ignorant.

If you think screwing your customers is the act of shipping products lacking in something, you've just defined Apple. How many times has Apple implemented new, albeit great, features that were available far sooner on other devices?
Wow, you have an interesting perspective. Further, you obviously dislike Apple, yet you spend time on an Apple forum. Hmmm.

Point 1: Maybe. It wasn't old technology though; it was current & perfectly relevant technology. The white iPhone was released during the iPhone 4's sales cycle.

2. Apple doesn't lock anyone into contracts. AT&T does. Apple just builds the device.

3. Mr Grimm's comment is based on THE FACT that in the past, other companies have made it a habit to copy a product, throw it together and "shovel it out the door" to market. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it untrue.

4. Wow- you outdid yourself on this one by completely contradicting yourself. Apple's bringing of new technology to the market ( I'm certain you're talking about Thunderbolt, here) is called 'driving the industry'. Take, oh, I dunno, THE MOUSE for example. I'm sure you've seen a machine with one of those, right? There was a short time when only an Apple product had one. You're going to argue with me on this because that's just the kind of person you are, but also take HTML5 for another example. 18 months ago, barely anyone had heard of it & implementation of it on the web was very sparse. Then Apple's silly new 'toy', the iPad comes to market 'that doesn't even support flash' & here we are today with 75% of all websites in the world supporting HTML5 so when the servers are called by an iOS device, that website can still be utilized.

Call it whatever you like, but THAT is driving the industry & the marketplace. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but it's still fact. Period.