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MacRumors
Jun 15, 2011, 06:20 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/15/imagination-technologies-starts-licensing-next-gen-ipadiphone-gpu/)


Imagination Technologies, the company behind the iPhone and iPad's PowerVR graphic processor unit (GPU), has announced (http://www.imgtec.com/corporate/newsdetail.asp?NewsID=632) that six "key partners" have already selected their next generation PowerVR Series 6 GPU (codename: Rogue) for licensing. The partners include ST-Ericsson, Texas Instruments, MediaTek as well as three "yet to be announced" licensees.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/imagination.jpg

(http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/imagination.jpg)
Apple has long used Imagination Technologies' GPUs to power their mobile phones and is likely one of the unnamed licensees. Besides being a major customer, Apple is also an investor in the company with ownership pegged at 9.5% (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/26/apple-raises-stake-in-imagination-technologies-to-9-5/) back in 2009. The iPad 2 currently uses (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/12/ipad-2-gpu-benchmarked-with-impressive-gains/) the PowerVR SGX543MP2 GPU. Combined with the A5 processor, Apple claimed the iPad 2 has 9x faster graphics than the original model. This upcoming GPU is said to deliver another significant performance boost for mobile graphics.

The press release is devoid of any hard details and offers just some vague promises of future performance.The POWERVR Series6 GPU family, which delivers unrivalled GFLOPS per mm2 and per mW for all APIs, delivers not only a clear technology advantage and exceptional roadmap, driven by one of the largest teams of graphics engineers in the world, but also an extensive ecosystem of third party developers which has created hundreds of thousands of apps optimised for POWERVR enabled devices to date.The new graphics processor will be backward compatible with the PowerVR SGX GPU which presently powers the iPad and iPhone, so will be an easy transition in future models.

A few numbers were detailed back in February during Mobile World Congress. According to a press release from ST-Ericsson (http://www.stericsson.com/press_releases/NovaThor.jsp), the Series 6 PowerVR chip will push over 350 million "real" polygons per second when used in their Nova A9600 SOC. That particular chip is said to be "sampling" in 2011.

Based on the usual lead time for these announcements, it seems unlikely we'll see these new GPUs in Apple's products until 2012 at the earliest. This more powerful graphics processor may help support the additional pixels of the rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/14/more-evidence-for-2048x1536-ipad-retina-display/) "Retina" display in the next iPad.

Article Link: Imagination Technologies Starts Licensing Next Gen iPad/iPhone GPU (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/15/imagination-technologies-starts-licensing-next-gen-ipadiphone-gpu/)



macnisse
Jun 15, 2011, 06:31 AM
Sounds good for the retina ipad! :)

talkingfuture
Jun 15, 2011, 06:43 AM
So thats the A6 sorted then.

arn
Jun 15, 2011, 06:44 AM
So thats the A6 sorted then.

yep. since the A4 and A5 are package deals. processor + gpu + ram. If they upgrade the gpu, they'll have to upgrade the whole processing unit. So A6.

awrn

Onimusha370
Jun 15, 2011, 06:48 AM
this A6 is looking like a capable unit for the retina ipad... would be nice to see a RAM increase to 1gb aswell, that'd make a long lasting ipad

JabbaII
Jun 15, 2011, 06:50 AM
What a turnaround for PowerVR. It used to be a also-ran in the PC / console industry. Now it powers the most popular devices in the world.

iJays
Jun 15, 2011, 06:56 AM
So thats the A6 sorted then.

yep. since the A4 and A5 are package deals. processor + gpu + ram. If they upgrade the gpu, they'll have to upgrade the whole processing unit. So A6.

awrn

have you read this:

Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/15/imagination-technologies-starts-licensing-next-gen-ipadiphone-gpu/)


The new graphics processor will be backward compatible with the PowerVR SGX GPU which presently powers the iPad and iPhone, so will be an easy transition in future models.

Article Link: Imagination Technologies Starts Licensing Next Gen iPad/iPhone GPU (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/15/imagination-technologies-starts-licensing-next-gen-ipadiphone-gpu/)

Seo
Jun 15, 2011, 07:01 AM
That retina display is going to be showing off some really awesome graphics. Designing GUI mockups for the iPhone 4 really shows the amount of detail on a retina display. Exciting that the iPad's gonna be even better!

Optimus Frag
Jun 15, 2011, 07:01 AM
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Interesting.

Apple increasingly getting more into providing their own GPU as well as CPU's. Maybe that talk of ARM powered prototype airs wasn't so crazy.

Still, be a long time in the future before we see anything of the sort, if at all.

maxap
Jun 15, 2011, 07:06 AM
All these exciting facts seem to indicate that we are going to see an iPad 3 very soon. :) A new iPad with that amazing Retina display would make it so interesting for the consumers.

*LTD*
Jun 15, 2011, 07:07 AM
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Interesting.

Apple increasingly getting more into providing their own GPU as well as CPU's. Maybe that talk of ARM powered prototype airs wasn't so crazy.

It wasn't crazy talk at all. It's just more of what Apple's already been doing: controlling their own destiny. They've got the power and resources to go it on their own, with a more than even chance they'll be very successful.

Optimus Frag
Jun 15, 2011, 07:19 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Interesting.

Apple increasingly getting more into providing their own GPU as well as CPU's. Maybe that talk of ARM powered prototype airs wasn't so crazy.

It wasn't crazy talk at all. It's just more of what Apple's already been doing: controlling their own destiny. They've got the power and resources to go it on their own, with a more than even chance they'll be very successful.

I was paraphrasing what others were saying.

I actually thought that the Air being ARM powered wasn't a huge stretch. Maybe a couple of years down the road. I can see those Air's having a relative of these new GPU's powering the graphics however.

An Air with a retina display.... nice.

Piggie
Jun 15, 2011, 07:20 AM
Bits of the jigsaw falling into Place.

Samsung demo'd a retina resolution display a month or two ago.
The hi-res graphics
The new more powerful CPU/GPU

So many people are expecting the iPad3 to have the new screen.
Jaws will hit the floor if they keep the same screen res for the next model.

The rotten camera the iPad2 has and improving the screen are really the only 2 things the iPad3 needs to do.

jclardy
Jun 15, 2011, 07:23 AM
this A6 is looking like a capable unit for the retina ipad... would be nice to see a RAM increase to 1gb aswell, that'd make a long lasting ipad

I'm thinking they will "have" to. If most apps upgrade to use retina display graphics then all the UI images will be 4x as large in memory which would mean switching apps would suck* compared to iPad 2 if it had the same 512MB of RAM.

It should be fine with 1GB, but of course people will still be whining when Android tablets start to have 2GB of RAM.

*"suck" meaning less apps could stay in memory, making the likelihood of an app having to recreate all its views and reload data much greater.

gorgeousninja
Jun 15, 2011, 07:38 AM
The rotten camera the iPad2 has and improving the screen are really the only 2 things the iPad3 needs to do.

Think you might be more easily pleased than some. Just wait for the kid complaining that the iPad3 can't fit the 100Gbs of music they've stolen while running FFPX, and Crysis4 ..oh and it should be in pink...and be free...

smiddlehurst
Jun 15, 2011, 07:44 AM
All these exciting facts seem to indicate that we are going to see an iPad 3 very soon. :) A new iPad with that amazing Retina display would make it so interesting for the consumers.

"Very soon" - nah, sorry, don't believe it. This isn't like Nvidia announcing a new desktop GPU which can just be slotted in to a system. The GPU will be integrated into a SOC which then has to be tested and produced in bulk. None of this is a particularly quick process and Apple won't be in any particular rush considering they're still unable to meet demand for the iPad 2.

Honestly, unless we see anything along the lines of actual production starting up, I wouldn't expect iPad 3 until around March 2012. There's just so many logistical issues to consider introducing a new iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch at the same time and that's the only slot, surely, they could bring in an iPad 3 before Christmas.

derek1984
Jun 15, 2011, 07:49 AM
If people thought the craze for iPad 2 was bad, wait until this drops. I passed on iPad 1 and iPad 2. Waited intentionally for retina. They better make A LOT of these. Compeitition to get one when they first come out is going to be fierce.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 15, 2011, 07:56 AM
yep. since the A4 and A5 are package deals. processor + gpu + ram. If they upgrade the gpu, they'll have to upgrade the whole processing unit. So A6.

awrn

owk!

Lesser Evets
Jun 15, 2011, 08:02 AM
Could the current iPad (being 9x faster with graphics) house a "retina" display as a mid-stream revision? All indications point to Apple on the verge of stepping upward to a 4x resolution screen.

There was a distinct flurry of "news" over the weekend about the fabled, but inevitable, A6. Seems there is an ample amount of public murmuring over the iPad 3 (A6 iPad), and it all seems good. Apple is obviously concentrating very strongly on the tablet; I can't wait to see where it goes.

Rumors/news indicated the A6 will be too hot for iPhone/iPod use, but will be at home in the iPad.

With iCloud and some better graphics and processing, the iPad will, in essence, become a full-fledged personal computer. For most people, $499 for such a device is a worthy value compared to some clunky tech for twice the price.

ratzzo
Jun 15, 2011, 08:13 AM
To the poster above... I think no one knows how iCloud really will work out, so for now all this talk is just overrated.

Consultant
Jun 15, 2011, 08:25 AM
Let me guess, HP, HTC, and Samsung.

TMay
Jun 15, 2011, 08:26 AM
If people thought the craze for iPad 2 was bad, wait until this drops. I passed on iPad 1 and iPad 2. Waited intentionally for retina. They better make A LOT of these. Compeitition to get one when they first come out is going to be fierce.

Oh yes, "A Clockwork iPad", coming to an Apple Store near you. Gangs of roving iPad 3 buyers.

Bring your own Cricket gear, or if you are here in the States, as I am, Lacrosse or Hockey gear works fine.

Sol
Jun 15, 2011, 08:47 AM
It is great to see a portable games platform that evolves at the rate of a major update every year. What I would like to know is if the benefits of new processors and GPUs in future iPhones, iPod Touches and iPads will be reflected on current generation Apple TVs when using the Airplay Mirroring feature of iOS 5. If the Apple TV does not have to match the hardware of the other iOS device it is mirroring then console manufacturers will have new competition in this system.

cvaldes
Jun 15, 2011, 08:50 AM
Could the current iPad (being 9x faster with graphics) house a "retina" display as a mid-stream revision? All indications point to Apple on the verge of stepping upward to a 4x resolution screen.
I don't know where you are getting this.

All indications point to a complete lack of volume manufacturing capacity of a suitable Retina Display in the iPad size.

There aren't manufacturing lines that are pumping out these parts and I believe at least one manufacturer (Samsung?) has claimed that they were building suitable facilities later this year, which would indicate a functional manufacturing line sometime early next year.

Let's face it, the only iPad Retina Displays are small batches of engineering samples.

Apple will not upgrade the iPad to a Retina Display mid-stream.

GFLPraxis
Jun 15, 2011, 09:05 AM
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Just to note- the Playstation Vita is using a four-core variant of the iPad 2's GPU.

toddybody
Jun 15, 2011, 09:14 AM
The rotten camera the iPad2 has and improving the screen are really the only 2 things the iPad3 needs to do.

My thoughts exactly. I LOVE my iPad 2, but the cameras (front one especially) makes Facetime look horrible.

This +300 dpi screen will only be the icing on the cake.

diamond.g
Jun 15, 2011, 09:18 AM
It is great to see a portable games platform that evolves at the rate of a major update every year. What I would like to know is if the benefits of new processors and GPUs in future iPhones, iPod Touches and iPads will be reflected on current generation Apple TVs when using the Airplay Mirroring feature of iOS 5. If the Apple TV does not have to match the hardware of the other iOS device it is mirroring then console manufacturers will have new competition in this system.

The only downside I see with this is the assumption that 100% of iOS owners update to the latest and greatest. If they don't then you cannot rely on that processing power, you have to shoot for the lower systems. Consoles don't have that problem as the CPU/GPU power is set for a long length of time.

igazza
Jun 15, 2011, 09:19 AM
ipad3 will need this for infinity blade on a 2048 x 1536 Retina Display. :eek:

Lesser Evets
Jun 15, 2011, 09:21 AM
All indications point to a complete lack of volume manufacturing capacity of a suitable Retina Display in the iPad size.

There aren't manufacturing lines that are pumping out these parts and I believe at least one manufacturer (Samsung?) has claimed that they were building suitable facilities later this year, which would indicate a functional manufacturing line sometime early next year.

You are talking today. I am talking tomorrow. The moment such a screen is fluidly manufactured, it will be used in mass-manufacture devices. That could happen anytime: the tech is designed and manufactured, it just needs stable mass-production.

As for Apple not changing "mid-stream", that is the most fatuous thing I've read. Apple has commonly disrupted (supposedly) regular, periodic updates for a variety of reasons. There is no reason to believe they can't do what they need or want to meet market demand or technical advancements.

cvaldes
Jun 15, 2011, 09:28 AM
The manufacturing lines don't exist yet. They are being built, but it takes many months of construction, followed by months of preproduction work to get a line up to speed, work out the kinks, improve yield to the point where they can generate a million units per month.

Remember that Apple's partners are now building approximately 4 million iPads per month. The supply chain needs to be able to provide millions of Retina Display parts just for Apple (and ignoring every other customer).

You are not going to see a tablet shipping in quantity with a Retina Display this year.

chrmjenkins
Jun 15, 2011, 09:38 AM
I'm not so confident it will happen next year. Two reasons:

28 nm) TSMC's troubles with their new process have been wildly publicized. While it is still in its infancy, yield will be low. It makes the most sense to minimize design risk and put all of.the risk in the new process. This also allows the die size to shrink, and the A5 is quite large compared to A4. May not be an issue for the iPad, but the iPhone needs every precious mm it can get. The A4 is also mainly a die shrink of the 3GS core. It just has some custom logic to spport things like power management. CPU and GPU cores just shrunk.

LTE) qualcomm's all in one LTE solution will be 28 nm and ready for primetime next year. It makes sense to bag extra battery life with an A5 process shrink to keep overall battery life up. If they couple this with an exterior design as past cadence suggests, no one will likely notice same core minus enthusiasts and analysts.

Don't get me wrong, they could go hog wild with a 4 core A9 and this GPU, it just doesn't seek likely.

keihin
Jun 15, 2011, 09:39 AM
Most of the discussion of a "retina" iPad assumes that the high rez screen would be a feature of the mainstream model. It seems entirely possible that the retina display would be featured on a premium, flagship model of the iPad, alongside a standard rez version. This would be similar to the way Apple has continued to market the older iPhone models. Pricing and availability of the premium iPad would be help Apple match demand to the availability of the new display components.

makingdots
Jun 15, 2011, 09:57 AM
The manufacturing lines don't exist yet. They are being built, but it takes many months of construction, followed by months of preproduction work to get a line up to speed, work out the kinks, improve yield to the point where they can generate a million units per month.

You are not going to see a tablet shipping in quantity with a Retina Display this year.

Fail. We can't tell if Apple is ready for it. Example is iPhone 4's retina display, how much do we know that Apple can mass produce those displays last year? If Gizmodo didn't get the prototype, we're clueless all along. The only rumor we know is that microscope thing. ;)

chrmjenkins
Jun 15, 2011, 10:06 AM
Fail. We can't tell if Apple is ready for it. Example is iPhone 4's retina display, how much do we know that Apple can mass produce those displays last year? If Gizmodo didn't get the prototype, we're clueless all along. The only rumor we know is that microscope thing. ;)

Because Samsung only recently demoed a retina tablet display. There was no awareness of the need for an iPhone size retina display, so there was no fuss about it existing.

makingdots
Jun 15, 2011, 10:21 AM
Because Samsung only recently demoed a retina tablet display. There was no awareness of the need for an iPhone size retina display, so there was no fuss about it existing. So can you mention any manufacturing company DEMOED a 3.5" retina display last year before iPhone 4's existence? :rolleyes:

maxap
Jun 15, 2011, 10:28 AM
Most of the discussion of a "retina" iPad assumes that the high rez screen would be a feature of the mainstream model. It seems entirely possible that the retina display would be featured on a premium, flagship model of the iPad, alongside a standard rez version. This would be similar to the way Apple has continued to market the older iPhone models. Pricing and availability of the premium iPad would be help Apple match demand to the availability of the new display components.

Very clever comment. Nobody and nothing can prevent Apple from introducing a new iPad 3 (iPad 2S, iPad 2 Premium, whatever you may call it) with a high resolution display, better GPU/CPU and better cameras, which will be sold for a higher price. Everything is possible in the Apple world, my friends! ;)

whooleytoo
Jun 15, 2011, 10:48 AM
It is great to see a portable games platform that evolves at the rate of a major update every year. What I would like to know is if the benefits of new processors and GPUs in future iPhones, iPod Touches and iPads will be reflected on current generation Apple TVs when using the Airplay Mirroring feature of iOS 5. If the Apple TV does not have to match the hardware of the other iOS device it is mirroring then console manufacturers will have new competition in this system.

Indeed! With significant annual upgrades, it won't be too long until they're approaching console levels of performance. Obviously, they'll run into power/heat issues soon enough, but the progress in iOS games made over the last 2 years is staggering.

chrmjenkins
Jun 15, 2011, 10:59 AM
So can you mention any manufacturing company DEMOED a 3.5" retina display last year before iPhone 4's existence? :rolleyes:

No.

I can do better. Two actual phones with similar PPI's hit the market 3 and 2 years before the iPhone 4 did, not just display demos.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=10118898#post10118898

The problem with displays is scaling. That's why you see so many 3-4" OLED/AMOLED, but >15" is an expensive pipe dream right now, and that's why it will take a while to do volume for a retina 10" display.

[1] http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Toshiba-Portege-G900-Review_id1787
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density#Devices_sorted_by_size

Piggie
Jun 15, 2011, 12:07 PM
Could the current iPad (being 9x faster with graphics) house a "retina" display as a mid-stream revision? All indications point to Apple on the verge of stepping upward to a 4x resolution screen.

There was a distinct flurry of "news" over the weekend about the fabled, but inevitable, A6. Seems there is an ample amount of public murmuring over the iPad 3 (A6 iPad), and it all seems good. Apple is obviously concentrating very strongly on the tablet; I can't wait to see where it goes.

Rumors/news indicated the A6 will be too hot for iPhone/iPod use, but will be at home in the iPad.

With iCloud and some better graphics and processing, the iPad will, in essence, become a full-fledged personal computer. For most people, $499 for such a device is a worthy value compared to some clunky tech for twice the price.

Let's make this clear.

"It's NOT 9x faster with graphics"

That's been taken up by some people to mean, in general the iPad2's graphics are 9x faster. THEY ARE NOT !!!!!

Even Apple did not say it in this way.

At launch is said "up to 9x" and if people know anything about graphics benchmarks, the words "up to" mean a hell of a lot.

It could be 1% faster in 99% of tests, but 1 test comes out 9x the speed and they could say that.

I've seen many many benchmarks, and to be honest, I've never seen one test that gives a 9x score.

It's misleading people to the point of it being a lie as, basically it's not true.

It would be far fat more accurate to add up all the benchmark results between iPad1 and 2, average them out and come up with a figure.
That would be a honest number.
I'm taking a wild guess here, but I'm thinking about 3x to 4x the speed as an average, not 9x

flottenheimer
Jun 15, 2011, 01:05 PM
Of course I love the retina display on my iPhone 4. It's gorgeous.
But I also love the big, beautiful, clear screen on my iPad.

A retina display on the iPad belongs in my would be "nice to have"-category.
It's definitely not a "need to have".

I simply don't understand why everyone is getting so psyched up about this.

Piggie
Jun 15, 2011, 01:34 PM
Of course I love the retina display on my iPhone 4. It's gorgeous.
But I also love the big, beautiful, clear screen on my iPad.

A retina display on the iPad belongs in my would be "nice to have"-category.
It's definitely not a "need to have".

I simply don't understand why everyone is getting so psyched up about this.

I don't think it would of been as bad if Apple had selected a better screen res in the 1st place. 1024x768 is low by any standards for where we are now.

heisetax
Jun 15, 2011, 02:56 PM
I don't think it would of been as bad if Apple had selected a better screen res in the 1st place. 1024x768 is low by any standards for where we are now.

Just think PRICE or should we say Apple's COST.

Piggie
Jun 15, 2011, 04:50 PM
Just think PRICE or should we say Apple's COST.

I don't really see why it would of affected the price.
Honeycomb 1280x800 screens give a lot more pixels, but I don't suppose the screens are any more expensive, or very little anyway.

Personally I'd of liked to have seem a 1366 pixel across screen as this seems quite a standard amount.

caspersoong
Jun 16, 2011, 01:01 AM
Hope this finally allows retina display apps for iPhone to be displayed at full resolution on iPad.

chrmjenkins
Jun 16, 2011, 10:30 AM
Hope this finally allows retina display apps for iPhone to be displayed at full resolution on iPad.

That's unrelated. It's up to the developer to make their app native iPad resolution.