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MacRumors
Jun 15, 2011, 01:46 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/15/three-people-sent-to-prison-in-china-over-ipad-2-leaks/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/ipad_2_hand.jpg


The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303499204576387290137752856.html) that three people have been sent to prison in China over their roles in facilitating leaks of information on the iPad 2 prior to its release.The court announced the decision Tuesday in statements on its official account at Sina Weibo, a Twitter-like microblogging service in China. It said that Xiao Chengsong, general manager of Shenzhen MacTop Electronics Co., had offered 20,000 yuan, or about $3,000, plus discounts on MacTop products to a former Hon Hai employee named Hou Pengna, for information about the iPad 2. The court said Ms. Hou then paid Lin Kecheng, a Hon Hai research-and-development employee, to get digital images of the device's back cover from last September, six months before the iPad 2 was publicly announced.The three people were sentenced to prison terms ranging from 12 to 18 months and are subject to fines ranging from approximately $4,500 to $23,000.

Cases for the iPad 2 began appearing (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/12/09/claimed-next-generation-ipad-cases-suggest-rear-facing-camera-sd-card-slot/) on Chinese supply sites four months ahead of Apple's official unveiling, and it was revealed (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/28/three-foxconn-employees-charged-with-leaking-ipad-2-design/) in late April that three workers had been arrested in connection with the leak soon after those initial cases appeared. The employees cited in that report had been claimed to be Foxconn employees and are presumed to be the same ones sentenced to prison in the new report, although only two of them were actually Foxconn employees while the the third was manager of the case manufacturing company that solicited the information.

Article Link: Three People Sent to Prison in China Over iPad 2 Leaks (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/15/three-people-sent-to-prison-in-china-over-ipad-2-leaks/)



levitynyc
Jun 15, 2011, 01:48 PM
Do they jail US Apple employees for leaks?

I'd hate to be in a Chinese prison for any duration.

Gamoe
Jun 15, 2011, 01:54 PM
I'd hate to be in a Chinese prison for any duration.

I dont know, but being imprisoned for anything but a violent crime seems overly harsh to me.*

* Of course, this is not the way most governments, including the U.S. government, see it. But I beg to differ.

wikus
Jun 15, 2011, 01:56 PM
I dont know, but being imprisoned for anything but a violent crime seems overly harsh to me.*

* Of course, this is not the way most governments, including the U.S. government, see it. But I beg to differ.

USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

bbeagle
Jun 15, 2011, 01:57 PM
I dont know, but being imprisoned for anything but a violent crime seems overly harsh to me.*


How about someone like Bernie Madoff who ruins thousands of people's lives by stealing all their retirement money?

Sardonick007
Jun 15, 2011, 01:57 PM
Given a choice between a Chinese prison and death would be a very hard decision in the heat of the moment.

USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

MaaseyRacer
Jun 15, 2011, 01:58 PM
This is gross.

gkarris
Jun 15, 2011, 01:59 PM
Backlight leaks = okay though... :eek:

;)

ShiftyPig
Jun 15, 2011, 01:59 PM
I dont know, but being imprisoned for anything but a violent crime seems overly harsh to me.*

* Of course, this is not the way most governments, including the U.S. government, see it. But I beg to differ.

Ooooohhhhhh, controversial. :rolleyes:

I can see this thread turning into a train wreck really quick.

jhvander
Jun 15, 2011, 02:00 PM
Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

jonnysods
Jun 15, 2011, 02:02 PM
Wow they are intense on this stuff.

Going to jail over information/parts from an electrical device. Heck of a way to go out.

kevin2i
Jun 15, 2011, 02:03 PM
In the US they would get probation, maybe house arrest for a month if this was their first offense. If they were union employees, no arrests but they would probably get suspended for two months (with pay). :o

Tucom
Jun 15, 2011, 02:03 PM
That is a bit harsh and the first thought that popped into the mind was: "Is prison in China just a different way of saying they'll never be seen again?"

Seriously though, I hope they're at least still alive by the end of their duration in jail. :eek:

LarryC
Jun 15, 2011, 02:03 PM
That is just too extreme in my opinion.

"prison terms ranging from 12 to 18 months and are subject to fines ranging from approximately $4,500 to $23,000."

I cannot imagine these folks being able to come up with the cash to pay their fines if the fine is as much as $23,000.00 US. This is too severe a penalty in my opinion. As someone mentioned earlier, it isn't as though anybody was murdered. I guess this is just the way it is done in China. It is very sad though.

ratzzo
Jun 15, 2011, 02:04 PM
Well, China is a very tough country on laws.

Perhaps they agreed to this when they signed their NDA contract?

kps
Jun 15, 2011, 02:08 PM
There's gotta be a tasteless joke about organ transplants to be found here.

seamuskrat
Jun 15, 2011, 02:20 PM
Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

I have always wished companies would offer two versions. A cheap version to be competetive and a socially conscious green version. Some customers would pay more for a product that was environmentally friendly and socially aware.

Sadly, you would need two versions as some comptitor would just make it in the third world and undersell you.

But Apple has the cachet to pull this off and create some needed jobs and pay in needed areas.

nwcs
Jun 15, 2011, 02:21 PM
USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

Non sequitur. It's a bad comparison for financial crimes. The comparison would properly be between the typical punishment for the same crime.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 15, 2011, 02:21 PM
There's gotta be a tasteless joke about organ transplants to be found here.

Really dude??? Come on man, have a heart! :mad:


:D

iCrizzo
Jun 15, 2011, 02:22 PM
This is clearly not something a person should sit in prison for.. so what, they leaked pictures of a tablet computer, I think firing them would probably be harsh enough, maybe even a fine but not prison!

seamuskrat
Jun 15, 2011, 02:22 PM
The Chinese prison system is very different from what we know.

It is not uncommon to buy your way out. So if you are wealthy you may serve a few days and buy your freedom. For those on the lesser income curve, you may serve an extended sentence until your 'fines' are paid via labor.

Add into the equation about the quality and access to legal representation and th presumption of guilt and ability o procure evidence and you have a very different system.

That said, China has less people in prison per capita than the US, less violent crime per capita and less theft per capita. So something works.
That is just too extreme in my opinion.

"prison terms ranging from 12 to 18 months and are subject to fines ranging from approximately $4,500 to $23,000."

I cannot imagine these folks being able to come up with the cash to pay their fines if the fine is as much as $23,000.00 US. This is too severe a penalty in my opinion. As someone mentioned earlier, it isn't as though anybody was murdered. I guess this is just the way it is done in China. It is very sad though.

nwcs
Jun 15, 2011, 02:23 PM
Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

That would be a quick way to kill the company. The number of people who will buy based upon the company's principles is far outweighed by those who only look at the price. There have been ample opportunities for people to demonstrate the opposite but it hasn't come true. Whether it's textiles, the Walmart effect, or electronics people want to pay as little as possible.

mingoglia
Jun 15, 2011, 02:24 PM
I have always wished companies would offer two versions. A cheap version to be competetive and a socially conscious green version. Some customers would pay more for a product that was environmentally friendly and socially aware.

Sadly, you would need two versions as some comptitor would just make it in the third world and undersell you.

But Apple has the cachet to pull this off and create some needed jobs and pay in needed areas.

Agree completely. I too have brought this up in the past and usually get flamed for it. Add an option on the BTO page for this "other" version and I'll gladly pay $50 more or whatever the amount is (within reason of course).

Bonch
Jun 15, 2011, 02:25 PM
Now I'm hungry for Chinese food.

nwcs
Jun 15, 2011, 02:26 PM
That said, China has less people in prison per capita than the US, less violent crime per capita and less theft per capita. So something works.

Depends on how you look at the statistics. I'd wager there is a much higher proportion of people living in unpoliced rural areas in China than in the US. Per capita should be measured by comparable cities not nationally. For anything meaningful, anyway.

kdum8
Jun 15, 2011, 02:28 PM
Do they jail US Apple employees for leaks?

I'd hate to be in a Chinese prison for any duration.

Frankly it is a toss up given the choice. The US has some of the worst jails in the world, and locks up far more of its people than almost all other developed countries. It has been said many times that you can tell the true level of social development of a country by looking at its jails...

hobo.hopkins
Jun 15, 2011, 02:28 PM
I dont know, but being imprisoned for anything but a violent crime seems overly harsh to me.*

* Of course, this is not the way most governments, including the U.S. government, see it. But I beg to differ.

That just isn't a feasible option. Too many people would commit crimes that are non-violent if prison wasn't a deterrent.

Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

The latter portion of this quote explains why that isn't a viable option in reality.

In the US they would get probation, maybe house arrest for a month if this was their first offense. If they were union employees, no arrests but they would probably get suspended for two months (with pay).

With the inflated rates of most union workers it wouldn't be economically feasible for any company to mass-produce anything inside the United States. Not enough people would be willing to pay the eventual higher costs. A company has to make money, or it can't survive. A company can't just ignore that. Otherwise it becomes a non-profit organisation.

Anaemik
Jun 15, 2011, 02:30 PM
Wow, this is such ********. This is so far away from a proportionate response that it's not even funny.

While it is yet to be known how much input Apple had in this outcome, if it transpires that they pushed for a prosecution knowing this could be on the cards then I'd lose just about any respect I ever had for them as a company.

inkswamp
Jun 15, 2011, 02:31 PM
USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

The USA is made up of 50 largely independent states (some of which are as big as other countries) and each of which has its own laws about the death sentence including some that have banned its use. I'd be very careful using a broad brush on a country as big and diverse as the US.

steve_hill4
Jun 15, 2011, 02:32 PM
Agree completely. I too have brought this up in the past and usually get flamed for it. Add an option on the BTO page for this "other" version and I'll gladly pay $50 more or whatever the amount is (within reason of course).

(Pulls out old LCIII and caresses the 'Made in Ireland' label on the underside).

Apple could make them ethically and keep the prices about the same, but it would drastically eat into profit margins and that would make the shareholders unhappy. China has moved to a capitalist dictatorship at the behest of the west who saw the country as a great place to use legalised slavery to build their goods and increase their profits. We're in too deep to really get out of it fully now.

Half of the west is also in debt to Chinese banks. Even if these companies wanted to gain a conscience, I don't think they could now.

chrono1081
Jun 15, 2011, 02:33 PM
Do they jail US Apple employees for leaks?

I'd hate to be in a Chinese prison for any duration.

This isn't Apple this is Foxconn and yes, people in the U.S. do get sent to jail for leaking company secrets.

lemoncrsh
Jun 15, 2011, 02:35 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

"What are you in for?"
"I emailed a pic of the next iPad"

FML

steve_hill4
Jun 15, 2011, 02:36 PM
The USA is made up of 50 largely independent states (some of which are as big as other countries) and each of which has its own laws about the death sentence including some that have banned its use. I'd be very careful using a broad brush on a country as big and diverse as the US.

Yes, while it's banned in some states, others are still happy to execute those who couldn't afford proper legal representation and/or are mentally retarded (although I understand this may be taking a slight turn for the better). The land of the free doesn't apply to all I'm afraid.

AidenShaw
Jun 15, 2011, 02:37 PM
This isn't "cool", Apple - no more than knocking down the door of someone's house over a lost telephone.

If the younger people (you know, the ones who spend their days at the Apple store updating their Facebook pages) figure out that Apple is really "the man" - 50% drop in stock value at the start.

Apple will fall faster than Mubarak....

twilson
Jun 15, 2011, 02:37 PM
Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

But they'd still send people to jail for leaking confidential trade secrets, so I fail to see how this is actually relevant.

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 15, 2011, 02:38 PM
I'm surprised so many people consider this a particularly harsh punishment.

It really doesn't sound bad to me at all. They broke the rules, they deserve to be punished, end of story.

0815
Jun 15, 2011, 02:38 PM
Well, China is a very tough country on laws.

Perhaps they agreed to this when they signed their NDA contract?

The punishment is not part of the specific NDA contract ... thing is they broke the local law and get the punishment according to that law. Might be harsh, but that is the local law and they knew that before they accepted big cash for leaking the information (and therefor breaking the law). They knowingly took the risk and got busted.

steve_hill4
Jun 15, 2011, 02:38 PM
This isn't Apple this is Foxconn and yes, people in the U.S. do get sent to jail for leaking company secrets.

Yet their corporate bosses rarely get their comeuppance for committing much more heinous crimes of financial misdealings, breaking pollutant regulations etc.

I'll get off my high horse for now.

cmaier
Jun 15, 2011, 02:38 PM
I dont know, but being imprisoned for anything but a violent crime seems overly harsh to me.

So I ruin people's lives in any of a myriad non-violent ways (blackmail, fraud, theft, arson, burglary, robbery, identity theft, invasion of privacy, false imprisonment, extortion, embezzlement, environmental contamination, etc.) and you'll just give me a kitten, a pat on the back, and send me on my way?

Will do good
Jun 15, 2011, 02:40 PM
This is a multi-billion dollar industry, with trade secrets that can worth hundreds of millions or more.

Do you think stealing trade secret is ok?

Do you think it's like stealing a CD?

Consultant
Jun 15, 2011, 02:42 PM
Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

China builds just about all the electronics in the world.

However Foxconn is looking at Brazil and other countries to build future factories.

0815
Jun 15, 2011, 02:43 PM
The USA is made up of 50 largely independent states (some of which are as big as other countries) and each of which has its own laws about the death sentence including some that have banned its use. I'd be very careful using a broad brush on a country as big and diverse as the US.

Ok does this sound better: Parts of the USA still have death sentencing and the national government is tolerating this instead of banning it nation wide.

iPhoney:)
Jun 15, 2011, 02:45 PM
USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.


And China doesn't?!

cmaier
Jun 15, 2011, 02:45 PM
Ok does this sound better: Parts of the USA still have death sentencing and the national government is tolerating this instead of banning it nation wide.

You might want to go read the Constitution and see what it says about the ability of "the national government" to "ban" things "nation wide."

baryon
Jun 15, 2011, 02:45 PM
Yes it would be better if Apple didn't have to make things in China. However, this isn't a perfect world and it would not be profitable for them to manufacture elsewhere. If you look at it this way, China is overpopulated, so I bet all those people need jobs. Apple is creating jobs for many of them, which is a good thing. If Apple didn't do it, they would probably end up in another factory under the same or worse conditions.

On the other hand, however, I don't think going to prison for leaked images is fair at all. Especially not for this long! I mean wow. A fine or getting fired would have been plenty. Some people in the government steal tons of money from taxpayers and all they get is bad reputation.

It's always the small people that get punished the most.

porky
Jun 15, 2011, 02:47 PM
Macrumors needs rumors like that! We should collect some money to get them free ;)

Benjamins
Jun 15, 2011, 02:50 PM
On the other hand, however, I don't think going to prison for leaked images is fair at all.

I don't think it's just for leaked image, there is bribery involved too.
In a way they got off easy, in China you can get death sentence for Bribery.

0815
Jun 15, 2011, 02:50 PM
You might want to go read the Constitution and see what it says about the ability of "the national government" to "ban" things "nation wide."

It is still amazing that government sponsored killing of civilians can be legal. Anyway, before anybody in the USA points the fingers at the jurisdictional of other countries, they should have a close look at their own system, which is partially stuck in a cruel wild west past.

*LTD*
Jun 15, 2011, 02:51 PM
Now I'm hungry for Chinese food.

Yes. I'll have some YooGotouJ . . . ah forget it.

logandzwon
Jun 15, 2011, 02:51 PM
Agree completely. I too have brought this up in the past and usually get flamed for it. Add an option on the BTO page for this "other" version and I'll gladly pay $50 more or whatever the amount is (within reason of course).

The head of Foxcom has spoken about why he has no US plants. He sees the problem as law suits. It's too unpredictable to run factories in the US. You can have a few good years, make a bunch of money, then have turn around and be sued out of more then everything you have.

482214
Jun 15, 2011, 02:53 PM
Don't do the crime... If you can't do the time!

Simples

rovex
Jun 15, 2011, 02:53 PM
USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

To be fair those are rarely given these days with the implications of morality being thrown into play as well as other developed countries perception on it and whatnot

jsalda
Jun 15, 2011, 02:55 PM
I find this judgement particularly interesting. I have a client that manufactures parts in China. About 6 or 7 years ago, a few of the employees that worked for the manufacturing plant left and began selling their own parts based on my clients designs/IP. My client spent 5 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars on a lawsuit. They had to sue them here in the US because the Chinese judicial system would not recognize that anything was done wrong. I guess a)Apple's deep pockets caused this to happen and/or b)China is starting to realize that IP is worth something.

philip.ayers
Jun 15, 2011, 02:55 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Completely agree. It's time for Apple to "Think Different". How about manufacturing in the Western Hemisphere?

Portaluk
Jun 15, 2011, 02:55 PM
I'm surprised so many people consider this a particularly harsh punishment.

It really doesn't sound bad to me at all. They broke the rules, they deserve to be punished, end of story.

WOW.

If you think eighteen months in prison AND a fine that is ridiculously high when compared with the average Chinese income is proportionate to the crime of leaking pictures. What do you think should happen to burglars and car jackers?

bruinsrme
Jun 15, 2011, 02:58 PM
The head of Foxcom has spoken about why he has no US plants. He sees the problem as law suits. It's too unpredictable to run factories in the US. You can have a few good years, make a bunch of money, then have turn around and be sued out of more then everything you have.

That attitude doesn't surprise me in the very least. I work nights and sometimes watch daytime tv. The lawyer personal injury lawyer commercials flood the airwaves.

Tiger8
Jun 15, 2011, 03:00 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Completely agree. It's time for Apple to "Think Different". How about manufacturing in the Western Hemisphere?
You mean something like American cars?

Who would bail Apple out? The US Government (Tax Payer), or Fiat?

Popeye206
Jun 15, 2011, 03:03 PM
Wow, this is such ********. This is so far away from a proportionate response that it's not even funny.

While it is yet to be known how much input Apple had in this outcome, if it transpires that they pushed for a prosecution knowing this could be on the cards then I'd lose just about any respect I ever had for them as a company.

I highly doubt Apple had any involvement. It's Chinese law you're dealing with and their rules. Foxcon probably takes their NDA's very seriously. You can't blame them... if they were known for product leaks, they would loose Apple and many other customers.

ibwb
Jun 15, 2011, 03:07 PM
Agree completely. I too have brought this up in the past and usually get flamed for it. Add an option on the BTO page for this "other" version and I'll gladly pay $50 more or whatever the amount is (within reason of course).

It wouldn't be as low as $50, not on something like an iPhone/iPad. The big problem is mass production.

If, say, at least a third of your users would pay an extra $50 then it would make sense; you could have a big enough, efficient enough factory that the extra labor costs might not be so bad.

The problem is that nowhere near a third of people are going to pay the extra $50. Maybe 10% would pay $50, and at that point the extra production facility is too small, and less efficient. So for 10% of your users, maybe instead of costing an extra $50, it's an extra $100.

But those 10% aren't all willing to pay $100... so you'd need a still-smaller factory, and the cost would be still worse. Eventually you're talking about a scenario where a few hundred users would need to be willing to pay $100,000 each to make it work out.

JohnDoe98
Jun 15, 2011, 03:07 PM
I have always wished companies would offer two versions. A cheap version to be competetive and a socially conscious green version. Some customers would pay more for a product that was environmentally friendly and socially aware.

Sadly, you would need two versions as some comptitor would just make it in the third world and undersell you.

But Apple has the cachet to pull this off and create some needed jobs and pay in needed areas.

Great idea

jeff33702
Jun 15, 2011, 03:08 PM
I can hear it now..

Police: "Who paid you money for the design details?"
"Yes."
Police: "Who paid you??"
"Yes, that's what I'm saying."
Police: "Did anyone else pay you"
"You."
Police: "Me?"
"Yes, he paid too."
.....

Popeye206
Jun 15, 2011, 03:08 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Completely agree. It's time for Apple to "Think Different". How about manufacturing in the Western Hemisphere?

People do realize that you can go to jail here too if you're caught in industrial theft?

Why do you think this is just a China thing? Go ahead... sell some company secrets and see what happens when you get caught. :rolleyes:

JohnDoe98
Jun 15, 2011, 03:09 PM
That would be a quick way to kill the company. The number of people who will buy based upon the company's principles is far outweighed by those who only look at the price. There have been ample opportunities for people to demonstrate the opposite but it hasn't come true. Whether it's textiles, the Walmart effect, or electronics people want to pay as little as possible.

Ever heard of whole foods? They are decidedly far more expensive than your typical grocery store, yet there is a market for them and they seem to be doing rather well. Why?

silentnite
Jun 15, 2011, 03:14 PM
Wow, that's sad. It's a freaking Ipad an electronic device for crying out loud. I would hate to know what happens to you for a really serious crime.

rovex
Jun 15, 2011, 03:15 PM
I never understood why China are among the last to have apple products released even though they manufacture everything.

*LTD*
Jun 15, 2011, 03:16 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Completely agree. It's time for Apple to "Think Different". How about manufacturing in the Western Hemisphere?

Are you ready to pay more? Think Different, right?

AidenShaw
Jun 15, 2011, 03:16 PM
Ever heard of whole foods? They are decidedly far more expensive than your typical grocery store, yet there is a market for them and they seem to be doing rather well. Why?

Because Whole Foods is where single people go on Friday nights to pickup some arugala and a friend for the evening.

If you're not into finding alcohol-fueled pickups, Whole Foods is the best thing going.

"I'll go ask the cutie looking at peppers if he can tell me the difference between serrano and habaneros - he's hot, I'll ask about hot peppers!"

mingoglia
Jun 15, 2011, 03:19 PM
The head of Foxcom has spoken about why he has no US plants. He sees the problem as law suits. It's too unpredictable to run factories in the US. You can have a few good years, make a bunch of money, then have turn around and be sued out of more then everything you have.

Honestly I think that's an excuse as I'm sure he knows his profit margins would be lower... but if that's what he said, that's what he said.

*LTD*
Jun 15, 2011, 03:19 PM
I highly doubt Apple had any involvement. It's Chinese law you're dealing with and their rules. Foxcon probably takes their NDA's very seriously. You can't blame them... if they were known for product leaks, they would loose Apple and many other customers.

I see at least someone here is thinking straight.

HiRez
Jun 15, 2011, 03:20 PM
Maybe the penalties (prison) are too stiff, but these people knowingly broke the law, and were directly profiting from it. That amounts to theft and releasing early specs on products can have huge implications of billions of dollars for investors and competitors. Sorry, I'm not going to feel too bad for them. You don't want trouble? Here's an idea: honor the contracts you signed and DON'T BREAK THE LAW. It's not that difficult.

*LTD*
Jun 15, 2011, 03:22 PM
Wow, that's sad. It's a freaking Ipad an electronic device for crying out loud.

There are billions of dollars at stake here. On top of that these individuals are thieves. What would you like to happen to thieves?

mingoglia
Jun 15, 2011, 03:26 PM
It is still amazing that government sponsored killing of civilians can be legal. Anyway, before anybody in the USA points the fingers at the jurisdictional of other countries, they should have a close look at their own system, which is partially stuck in a cruel wild west past.

Do you have an examples of this? Keep in mind with the death penalty very few are executed and these people are typically on death row for 10's of years before it happens... so an argument of swiftly executing people and not having proper representation IMO is not a very good argument as those executed have had several defenders before the time comes. I for one believe in the dealth penalty, but only under the very MOST extreme crimes, such as serial killers and such.

HiRez
Jun 15, 2011, 03:27 PM
If you're not into finding alcohol-fueled pickups, Whole Foods is the best thing going.

"I'll go ask the cutie looking at peppers if he can tell me the difference between serrano and habaneros - he's hot, I'll ask about hot peppers!"

Whole Foods is gangsta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFc1pr2yUU) now!

lkrupp
Jun 15, 2011, 03:29 PM
I have always wished companies would offer two versions. A cheap version to be competetive and a socially conscious green version. Some customers would pay more for a product that was environmentally friendly and socially aware.

Sadly, you would need two versions as some comptitor would just make it in the third world and undersell you.

But Apple has the cachet to pull this off and create some needed jobs and pay in needed areas.

Your heart is bleeding all over the floor. Wipe it up please.

Trog7g
Jun 15, 2011, 03:32 PM
The USA is made up of 50 largely independent states (some of which are as big as other countries) and each of which has its own laws about the death sentence including some that have banned its use. I'd be very careful using a broad brush on a country as big and diverse as the US.

The US as a country still has the death penalty for federal offenses. Timothy McVeigh was executed under federal jurisdiction.

mingoglia
Jun 15, 2011, 03:37 PM
The US as a country still has the death penalty for federal offenses. Timothy McVeigh was executed under federal jurisdiction.

Do you not believe his crime was serious enough to be executed? Is there rehabilitating someone like this?

gkpm
Jun 15, 2011, 03:39 PM
Oh dear, Americans spouting opinions on China's social policies... can't end well.

My opinion on this - having lived in China for over 10 years - is that China has little choice but set harsh punishments for these crimes. In addition they need to set an example in these cases, otherwise the problems will quickly grow and become endemic.

Would the people there be better off if Apple had to close their factories because the competition just kept getting all their moves in advance? What would all those others do? Back to hard labour at the rice farms?

18 months isn't even that harsh for China's standards compared, for example, to those they catch making fake DVDs or Louis Vuitton handbags.

epictempo
Jun 15, 2011, 03:40 PM
I wish the states would implement harsher laws here as well. Strict laws is how a country can control 1.3 billion people. We have 0.3 billion people and our homicide rate is higher; esp. bad where I live (Houston), not uncommon to have homicides daily.

Compile 'em all
Jun 15, 2011, 03:40 PM
Wow, this is such ********. This is so far away from a proportionate response that it's not even funny.


You get sent to prison if you get caught downloading a couple of songs or movies. How is that different? Leaking trade secrets?

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 03:44 PM
Yes, that is just so harsh for those employees. Harsh, harsh punishment. Apple should really think about moving production to a country that respects human rights. They just should consider it. They really need to think about it.

Oh! Where's my iPhone? I gotta get going over to the Apple store to have their geniuses look at the headphone jack. It's not working. I better bring my iPad along in case my iPhone quits working. Now, where did I put my iPad? Oh yeah, it's on the desk next to my Macbook. I'm just forgetful! I'll have my wife call me from her iPhone next time I lose something.

Over and out! :)

jasonxneo
Jun 15, 2011, 03:47 PM
Who bailed you out from Prison?!?!?! Come now to my office!!! :D

Bolo4u
Jun 15, 2011, 03:48 PM
There's gotta be a tasteless joke about organ transplants to be found here.

Guess they weren't using their brains.... :rolleyes:

Glideslope
Jun 15, 2011, 03:48 PM
Do they jail US Apple employees for leaks?

I'd hate to be in a Chinese prison for any duration.

Depending on the scale of your NDA, yes. Deservedly so. :apple:

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 03:50 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Completely agree. It's time for Apple to "Think Different". How about manufacturing in the Western Hemisphere?

That isn't the question. The question is, are you (or any consumers) willing to put your money where your mouth is, and refuse to buy Apple products until that time? It's a serious question that needs a serious discussion.

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 03:54 PM
This is a multi-billion dollar industry, with trade secrets that can worth hundreds of millions or more.

Do you think stealing trade secret is ok?

Do you think it's like stealing a CD?

It's not a criminal offense in the United States. You would not go to jail here for doing this. You might get fired, you might be completely unpalatable to other employers, you might be sued, your career might be finished. But you would not go to jail for divulging trade secrets.

Popeye206
Jun 15, 2011, 03:55 PM
That isn't the question. The question is, are you (or any consumers) willing to put your money where your mouth is, and refuse to buy Apple products until that time? It's a serious question that needs a serious discussion.

Be sure not to buy HP, Samsung, Toshiba, Sony, etc... etc... either most of the parts or the whole thing comes from their too.

If you want to make a difference in this area... go complain to your congressmen about needing more incentives for manufacturing here in the good old US.

But as it goes... China and Taiwan are your two big places for electronics to come from.

oldwatery
Jun 15, 2011, 03:55 PM
I wonder how much Big Brother Apple had to do with this?
Would not put it past them to have asked for stern punishment to protect their silly little secrets.

Reach9
Jun 15, 2011, 03:57 PM
They're sending leakers to prison? Looks like Apple has really buckled down on leaks, at this rate we might not know what the iPhone 5 looks like!

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 03:58 PM
Be sure not to buy HP, Samsung, Toshiba, Sony, etc... etc... either most of the parts or the whole thing comes from their too.

If you want to make a difference in this area... go complain to your congressmen about needing more incentives for manufacturing here in the good old US.

But as it goes... China and Taiwan are your two big places for electronics to come from.

I agree with you. Western countries don't produce a lot of consumer electronics. Slave labour is needed to make it so you can buy an iPhone for $200 or whatever.

Popeye206
Jun 15, 2011, 03:59 PM
I wonder how much Big Brother Apple had to do with this?
Would not put it past them to have asked for stern punishment to protect their silly little secrets.

Probably 0%!

For goodness sake.

mw360
Jun 15, 2011, 03:59 PM
The USA is made up of 50 largely independent states (some of which are as big as other countries) and each of which has its own laws about the death sentence including some that have banned its use. I'd be very careful using a broad brush on a country as big and diverse as the US.

I could have sworn the USA was made up of united states but perhaps they've changed the name recently. :p

renewed
Jun 15, 2011, 04:01 PM
Depending on the scale of your NDA, yes. Deservedly so. :apple:

Prison???? No. Getting fired and a major fine, yes.

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 04:02 PM
Probably 0%!

For goodness sake.

But not because they wouldn't want to. More likely that they don't need to. I'm sure China enforces these brutal policies of their own accord. The last thing they need is for American electronics companies getting it in their heads that higher-quality slave labour exists elsewhere in the world.

Popeye206
Jun 15, 2011, 04:03 PM
I agree with you. Western countries don't produce a lot of consumer electronics. Slave labour is needed to make it so you can buy an iPhone for $200 or whatever.

Hardly slave labor. Their labor practices and culture is different than ours, but, you do realize, the Chinese people line up to work there. It's considered one of the best places to work.

I'm not saying that I'm for some of their practices... and there are places that run sweat shops... but they are becoming more rare. Most US retailers (even Walmart) require certain standards are met and do not condone sweatshop practices.

Just because culturally they are willing to work more hours for less pay does not make them slaves.

rovex
Jun 15, 2011, 04:04 PM
The mark up on apple's products especially is atrocious, i'm sure they could retail the current stuff for a similar price had they been made in the US or whatever.

Thunderhawks
Jun 15, 2011, 04:04 PM
Really dude??? Come on man, have a heart! :mad:


:D

Watch out or he'll h ate your guts.

Popeye206
Jun 15, 2011, 04:08 PM
But not because they wouldn't want to. More likely that they don't need to. I'm sure China enforces these brutal policies of their own accord. The last thing they need is for American electronics companies getting it in their heads that higher-quality slave labour exists elsewhere in the world.

I'm sure Apple didn't want to. It's not their fight.

I think you might watch too many movies. Not saying everywhere is perfect or humane or that every company is above board... but it's becoming more and more the case. Again... most US companies don't and won't support sweatshop labor.

But... go by your wife or girl friend a fake Gucci purse... that is almost guaranteed to have come from a sweat shop somewhere in the world.

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 04:09 PM
Hardly slave labor. Their labor practices and culture is different than ours, but, you do realize, the Chinese people line up to work there. It's considered one of the best places to work.

I'm not saying that I'm for some of their practices... and there are places that run sweat shops... but they are becoming more rare. Most US retailers (even Walmart) require certain standards are met and do not condone sweatshop practices.

Just because culturally they are willing to work more hours for less pay does not make them slaves.

Lots of conjecture here.

Bottom line: Apple and others produce their products in China because it is dirt cheap. Period.

WestonHarvey1
Jun 15, 2011, 04:10 PM
It's not a criminal offense in the United States. You would not go to jail here for doing this. You might get fired, you might be completely unpalatable to other employers, you might be sued, your career might be finished. But you would not go to jail for divulging trade secrets.

Since when? What about U.S. v. Aleynikov?

AppleScruff1
Jun 15, 2011, 04:10 PM
Anyone who does or says anything that Uncle Steve doesn't like should be imprisoned or executed.

cmaier
Jun 15, 2011, 04:12 PM
It's not a criminal offense in the United States. You would not go to jail here for doing this. You might get fired, you might be completely unpalatable to other employers, you might be sued, your career might be finished. But you would not go to jail for divulging trade secrets.

You are quite mistaken.

JohnDoe98
Jun 15, 2011, 04:12 PM
Hardly slave labor. Their labor practices and culture is different than ours, but, you do realize, the Chinese people line up to work there. It's considered one of the best places to work.

I'm not saying that I'm for some of their practices... and there are places that run sweat shops... but they are becoming more rare. Most US retailers (even Walmart) require certain standards are met and do not condone sweatshop practices.

Just because culturally they are willing to work more hours for less pay does not make them slaves.

When people typically talk about slave labor they are not speaking literally. They generally mean to imply, that according to their perspective, the affected people are being grossly exploited. It simply doesn't matter what the Chinese standards are. What matters is whether or not first-world nations are grossly exploiting the third-world. Sure the third-world may be ok with it, but in all likeliness, if they are being exploited, they don't really have a choice to alter their cultural standards if they want to survive.

ma2ha3
Jun 15, 2011, 04:12 PM
OMG just to leak a few photos , they get to spend so long in china prison (not like US prison), where they have to endure hard labour.

they better got enough money to bribe the prison guards, or they will be died.

That means that there will be no more leak from china in near future.

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 04:14 PM
I'm sure Apple didn't want to. It's not their fight.

That's what I said. They don't NEED to make it their fight. The companies that assemble these products wants ROBOTS on the production floor. They will not tolerate any sort of transgression; they don't want there to be any perception or shred of workers' rights. That can only lead to further insubordination. Have you heard the rumblings lately of higher pay for factory workers in China? I'm sure the government isn't thrilled about that.

I think you might watch too many movies. Not saying everywhere is perfect or humane or that every company is above board... but it's becoming more and more the case. Again... most US companies don't and won't support sweatshop labor.

Only because it makes for bad press back home, just like this article has. But no matter, because it will have long been forgotten by the time we see the iPhone 5 or whatever.

Thunderhawks
Jun 15, 2011, 04:14 PM
That isn't the question. The question is, are you (or any consumers) willing to put your money where your mouth is, and refuse to buy Apple products until that time? It's a serious question that needs a serious discussion.

Came up in the explosion thread and is always coming up.

People say a lot, but vote mostly with their wallets for the cheapest option.
They will not change unless forced or when there is no other option.

A few simple examples about what people do:

Last week I was at a walk for life event. Lots of posters about living healthy, eating healthy, all sponsored by HMO's and major corporations.
Walking around the booths were selling: pizza, hot dogs, hamburgers, sweet stuff for kids, deep fried funnel cake, sugary soft drinks etc. etc.

Not one piece of fruit available or any alternatives to junk food.

All the booths were crowded by fat out of shape people buying junk food.

Panera
--------
When you buy a baguette bread the whole grain variety is always left over and donated.
I guess people don't want healthy.

In summary, the few people willing to pay more for a locally produced electronic product are probably no more than 5%.

AidenShaw
Jun 15, 2011, 04:15 PM
Lots of conjecture here.

Bottom line: Apple and others produce their products in China because it is dirt cheap. Period.

So Apples are "dirt cheap" luxury goods?

rovex
Jun 15, 2011, 04:17 PM
"vote mostly for their wallets" yet Apple products are already overly expensive?

Price is perhaps the most overstated factor when it concerns the sucess of a product.

Globe199
Jun 15, 2011, 04:18 PM
Since when? What about U.S. v. Aleynikov?

You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK. :confused:

tinman0
Jun 15, 2011, 04:20 PM
Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

It would cost more, and you wouldn't buy it.

If human rights mean so much to you, then I'm glad that you never have to do any shopping anywhere, as it all comes from China ;)

WestonHarvey1
Jun 15, 2011, 04:20 PM
You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK. :confused:

Are they trade secrets? Does it violate the Economic Espionage Act of 1996?

They may not be brought up on charges in their particular case, but the option is available to prosecutors.

Thunderhawks
Jun 15, 2011, 04:20 PM
Prison???? No. Getting fired and a major fine, yes.

No, they would write a book why they did it and go on a promo tour on all the talk channels, book stores etc..

Then ensues a discussion about labor practices in China, consumers in USA forcing "slave" labor upon developing nations etc.etc.

akicebear
Jun 15, 2011, 04:43 PM
Depends on how you look at the statistics. I'd wager there is a much higher proportion of people living in unpoliced rural areas in China than in the US. Per capita should be measured by comparable cities not nationally. For anything meaningful, anyway.

Its likely such statistics (e.g. Beijing or Shanghai vs NYC, LA, SF, etc) would make the crime in the US seem even worse. I've lived in several large cities around the world, Beijing being the largest and indeed the safest - extremely rare accounts of violent crime or crime against women, women comfortable walking alone at night, etc.

That's probably due to a overly harsh criminal justice system that some will admonish on human rights grounds, perhaps rightfully so, but its hard to take seriously anyone that thinks violent crime is a serious issue in Chinese cities (for common citizens).

Regarding this case, I agree with others in that the criminal knew legal system he lived prior to committing the crime. Also, some of the rumors of Chinese prisons here are fairly extreme; one should be aware of their own country's shortcomings before being overly critical (China certainly has problems, but wrt prison America is pretty dismal for a developed country).

cmaier
Jun 15, 2011, 04:43 PM
You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK. :confused:

Yep. And it has happened.

mac jones
Jun 15, 2011, 04:48 PM
What, you mean they weren't executed?

Tiger8
Jun 15, 2011, 04:49 PM
I like how folks here talk like it's nothing. IT IS A CRIME. You think stuff just 'happens'? Companies spend millions of dollars on innovation, design, R&D. Before the iPad there was probably a million prototypes that just did not work. And then someone goes and simply takes the product of months of labour and leaks it out just like that.

gnasher729
Jun 15, 2011, 04:55 PM
The court said Ms. Hou then paid Lin Kecheng, a Hon Hai research-and-development employee...

So this person was an R&D employee. Not a peasant shipped from his farm to live in the big town, who gets bribed to smuggle pictures out. R&D means highly educated, well paid person, and a person whose job it is to develop things that become trade secrets.

In that position, the employee absolutely has to be trustworthy. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that for just $3,000 he was selling out his employer. He had to know that this would be highly damaging for his employer and for his employer's customer; it could have meant the loss of a major contract, huge loss of money, and many people losing their employment over that.

I'd say a prison sentence is well deserved. He was greedy, and he sold out the employer who pays his salary and his colleagues out of pure greed. He was also very, very stupid. I know that $3,000 in China is worth more than $3,000 where I live, but still, it isn't the amount of money that any sane person would risk their whole career for. Instead of a well paid job, he now faces jail time, plus no decent company will ever employ him again.


You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK. :confused:

Research and Development, not factory worker.


Yet their corporate bosses rarely get their comeuppance for committing much more heinous crimes of financial misdealings, breaking pollutant regulations etc.

In China, some company bosses _did_ get death penalties in the fake milk scandal a while ago.


Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

So what does a prison sentence for industrial espionage have to do with human rights?

einmusiker
Jun 15, 2011, 05:00 PM
How about someone like Bernie Madoff who ruins thousands of people's lives by stealing all their retirement money?

He didnt ruin anybodys life, he just made other greedy people unhappy. Prison for leaking information about a toy? Rediculous.

sn
Jun 15, 2011, 05:11 PM
I'm surprised so many people consider this a particularly harsh punishment.

It really doesn't sound bad to me at all. They broke the rules, they deserve to be punished, end of story.

i don't think anyone's saying they didn't "break the rules", nor are they saying they don't deserve to face the consequences. what people are disputing however is what those consequences are. crime and punishment isn't black and white. there are shades of grey within each category. five mph over the speed limit is breaking the rules but, of course, that doesn't mean any degree of punishment is acceptable. and that's what's being discussed here. does the punishment fit the crime? most people don't seem to think so and i have to agree. it kind of unnerves me that commodity plays this kind of role in our lives now.

EnergonCube
Jun 15, 2011, 05:12 PM
China is a manufacturing country and they are obviously "sending a message" to protect that reputation. Harsh? Hell yeah.

Keep in mind this a country that will sentence a man to death and charge his family for the bullet.

writingdevil
Jun 15, 2011, 05:31 PM
On the other hand, however, I don't think going to prison for leaked images is fair at all. Especially not for this long! I mean wow. A fine or getting fired would have been plenty. ..It's always the small people that get punished the most.

These are not small people, if you read the report. It was a scam to get detailed corporate product info before release, create a fake product and sell it.

It is so odd to me, that people have and will complain, for years, about lack of piracy laws in China, from music to movies to clothing to products, yet when teeth are put into efforts to protect legally created and owned industry assets, there is a cry that prosecuting these people is excessive.

"A court in south China has jailed three people for stealing the design to Apple’s iPad2 tablet computer and using it to manufacture counterfeits, state press said Wednesday,” AFP reports. “The theft from a plant run by Foxconn, a contract electronics manufacturer, in Guangdong province late last year resulted in fake iPad2s being sold in China before Apple’s official launch of the product, the Guangzhou Daily said.”

jimmc
Jun 15, 2011, 05:36 PM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/15/three-people-sent-to-prison-in-china-over-ipad-2-leaks/)

Three Chinese IP thieves down.

A billion+ to go!

writingdevil
Jun 15, 2011, 05:43 PM
You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK. :confused:

These were not bottom rung "anybodys". A manufacturing company paid to have details stolen, then made fake ipads and then sold them on the market. China is known for piracy and it seems instead of applauding one effort to crack down, you are attacking it and somehow defending corporate theft, piracy of product?
•BEIJING — A court in south China has jailed three people for stealing the design to Apple's iPad2 tablet computer and using it to manufacture counterfeits, state press said Wednesday.

"It's not a criminal offense in the United States. You would not go to jail here for doing this. You might get fired, you might be completely unpalatable to other employers, you might be sued, your career might be finished. But you would not go to jail for divulging trade secrets."

News from the BBC that Joya Williams, the secretary at Coca Cola who offered the recipe for, and samples of, a new product and on to Pepsi, has been jailed for 8 years. Pepsi refused to bite, and alerted Coca Cola and subsequently cooperated with the FBI. In sentencing Williams, District Judge J Owen Forrester said ‘This is the kind of offence that cannot be tolerated in our society’.

beebler
Jun 15, 2011, 06:06 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

We're all part of that mass who wants blood diamonds of info leaks and fuel these miners to put themselves at risk.

sine-nomine
Jun 15, 2011, 06:11 PM
I guess those claiming there is no penalty in the US for stealing trade secrets couldn't spare the 2 seconds it took me to google the topic and find the truth...

Popeye206
Jun 15, 2011, 06:21 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

We're all part of that mass who wants blood diamonds of info leaks and fuel these miners to put themselves at risk.

Now this is the most interesting perspective I've heard.

However, thinking about it... they didn't take the pictures for the sake of rumors... they took them for money and so that others could profit. We just happened to get the benefit of some early pics because of their stupidity and personal greed.

SoGood
Jun 15, 2011, 06:40 PM
Well deserved prison term in a country where large bribes can land the death sentence.

In any case, the trio are guilty. The third party manufacturer did it for major commercial gains while those in Foxxcon took bribe and forfeited their contract. This severe sentence also makes sense from China's national business perspective. It needs to maintain the confidence of their customers. If the trio were treated leniently, then Apple and other companies with IP may well start to look elsewhere.

So perfectly logical and appropriate.

As for how bad the Chinese prisons are. Well, there's nothing wrong for prisoners to work and pay for their stay. Why should the society pay for the food and housing of criminals in relative comfort? It's all relative.

You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK. :confused:

The trio aren't "bottom-rung" production line workers at Foxconn. The are clearly white collar workers who are paid decent wages by local standard.

Gamoe
Jun 15, 2011, 07:01 PM
How about someone like Bernie Madoff who ruins thousands of people's lives by stealing all their retirement money?

That's obviously an extreme, unusual example. It's good for illuminating a point perhaps but extreme cases don't make good law. He certainly should not be entitled to his ill-gotten property. Perhaps taking the guy's property for life, except for essentials, would be a solution. Then again, who knows. This is a very extreme example. And let us not forget that the devil is in the details.

What I said was a generality and shouldn't be taken as a complete absolute, as I don't believe in absolutes. But generally speaking, I don't believe that people who have committed non-violent crimes should be put imprisoned.

That just isn't a feasible option. Too many people would commit crimes that are non-violent if prison wasn't a deterrent.

Prison isn't even a practical deterrent for a lot of violent crimes. That notwithstanding, there are many other effective deterrents available than prison.

So I ruin people's lives in any of a myriad non-violent ways (blackmail, fraud, theft, arson, burglary, robbery, identity theft, invasion of privacy, false imprisonment, extortion, embezzlement, environmental contamination, etc.) and you'll just give me a kitten, a pat on the back, and send me on my way?

A lot of the crimes you mentioned are indeed violent. How is setting a house ablaze not a violent act? How is false imprisonment not violent? How is poisoning a community not violent? Maybe we just have different conceptions of violence. Either way, how did I imply "a kitten, a pat on the back"? Aren't those your own (rather extreme) assumptions of where I'm coming from?

I cannot contend with every single crime and incidence within one broad statement. The simple fact is that I think far too many non-violent people end up in prison, and I think that is very harsh, to say the least. I challenge you to literally "think outside the box" and realize that there are other ways of dealing with most other criminal behavior that doesn't involve serious violence than sticking people in prison, where often the non-violent become violent and the not-so-great become worse.

If you're just coming from a "punish" attitude, then nothing I say will make any sense. I believe people should repay the damage they've done to society or members of society, but if what you're looking for is an emotional, vengeful gratification, then we simply have opposing viewpoints, period. But when you consider the overall health of a society and the epidemic levels of prisons and prisoners you start to wonder if there isn't a better way of dealing with these problems than prison.

Frankly, even as a long-time Mac user, I don't think anyone of Apple's products or secrets are worth years of somebody's life behind bars. Funny these guys get years, Gates gets billions and gets called a noble philanthropist. That doesn't mean they should get away with it scot-free, mind you. But I am extremely doubtful of the fairness of China's justice system.

SoGood
Jun 15, 2011, 07:18 PM
What I said was a generality and shouldn't be taken as a complete absolute, as I don't believe in absolutes. But generally speaking, I don't believe that people who have committed non-violent crimes should be put imprisoned.

No absolute alright. Determination of punishment also needs to consider the social circumstances. It's completely aloft to apply what's appropriate in the US in China. Society is different, culturally different, circumstances differ, population size differ and the list goes on. And any sociologist would know their research and conclusion must take these factors into account.

Cheffy Dave
Jun 15, 2011, 07:41 PM
DON'T SCREW WITH MR JOBS!:cool:

AidenShaw
Jun 15, 2011, 07:41 PM
No absolute alright. Determination of punishment also needs to consider the social circumstances. It's completely aloft to apply what's appropriate in the US in China. Society is different, culturally different, circumstances differ, population size differ and the list goes on. And any sociologist would know their research and conclusion must take these factors into account.

On the other hand, it's well known that some Asian countries don't value "intellectual property" the same way that many Western countries consider it.

How do you reconcile the fact that pirate DVDs and BDs are sold with impunity on the streets and in the malls of China - yet a few people go to prison for selling minor Apple secrets?

It doesn't seem "fair and balanced" - why is sharing Apple's IP a crime worth prison, yet "sharing" a director's cut of the Avator BD is ignored?

Inquiring minds want to know....



DON'T SCREW WITH MR JOBS!:cool:

The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....

Gamoe
Jun 15, 2011, 07:58 PM
The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....

Ouch!

milatchi
Jun 15, 2011, 08:00 PM
Good, those 3 people deserve it!
I hope Apple convinces them to use the death sentence (if one exists in China) and they let Steve Jobs personally administer the injection! Leaking corporate secrets -- especially those of a benevolent companly like Apple -- is inexcusable and should be considered a high crime! Apple has never and I can't see them ever doing anything questionable.
Way to go Apple and way to go China, yay! :D

Glideslope
Jun 15, 2011, 08:29 PM
Prison???? No. Getting fired and a major fine, yes.

You obviously do not have experience with the DOD. ;)

reactions
Jun 15, 2011, 08:31 PM
Haven't read through but has anyone called for the death penalty ?

That's extreme

Some would say the gizmodo blogger should of gone to jail

LarryC
Jun 15, 2011, 08:34 PM
You obviously do not have experience with the DOD. ;)

Earlier in this thread somebody compared the Apple product being manufactured there as a toy. And in a way, it is. You cannot actually equate something made in a toy factory to something manufactured by the United States Department of Defense! There is no comparing an iPad to a thermonuclear device.

Kwill
Jun 15, 2011, 08:35 PM
The Chinese prison system is very different from what we know...That said, China has less people in prison per capita than the US, less violent crime per capita and less theft per capita. So something works.
Globalized commerce, with its shady business practices is reaching the hearts of Asian employees.

This isn't Apple this is Foxconn and yes, people in the U.S. do get sent to jail for leaking company secrets.
Just ask Martha Stewart.

Don't do the crime... If you can't do the time!
They did and they will.

18 months isn't even that harsh for China's standards compared, for example, to those they catch making fake DVDs or Louis Vuitton handbags.
I am certain the defendants are happy with the ruling.

He didnt ruin anybodys life, he just made other greedy people unhappy. Prison for leaking information about a toy? Rediculous.
The defendants ruined their own lives and jeopardized Apple sales. Competitors salivate for prerelease info; just look at Samsung.

We're all part of that mass who wants blood diamonds of info leaks and fuel these miners to put themselves at risk.

It is hard to imagine why anyone would risk losing their job, spending more than a year in prison and paying heavy fines for about $3000.
Oh wait, where is this story? (MacRumors.)

wovel
Jun 15, 2011, 09:06 PM
So I ruin people's lives in any of a myriad non-violent ways (blackmail, fraud, theft, arson, burglary, robbery, identity theft, invasion of privacy, false imprisonment, extortion, embezzlement, environmental contamination, etc.) and you'll just give me a kitten, a pat on the back, and send me on my way?

Not to pick nits (Ok I know I am), but robbery (at least as it is defined in Texas) is a violent crime. It requires force or the threat of force.

§ 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in
the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with
intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes
bodily injury to another; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places
another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second
degree.

On the other hand, it's well known that some Asian countries don't value "intellectual property" the same way that many Western countries consider it.

How do you reconcile the fact that pirate DVDs and BDs are sold with impunity on the streets and in the malls of China - yet a few people go to prison for selling minor Apple secrets?

It doesn't seem "fair and balanced" - why is sharing Apple's IP a crime worth prison, yet "sharing" a director's cut of the Avator BD is ignored?

Inquiring minds want to know....





The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....

If they do not protect the secrets of products being manufactured in China, their economy will collapse when companies move their manufacturing to countries that are willing to protect them. If Foxconn does not seek prosecution and these leaks keep happening, Apple will just go somewhere else.

rdlink
Jun 15, 2011, 09:14 PM
The US as a country still has the death penalty for federal offenses. Timothy McVeigh was executed under federal jurisdiction.

And I, for one couldn't be any happier about that.

cmaier
Jun 15, 2011, 09:27 PM
Not to pick nits (Ok I know I am), but robbery (at least as it is defined in Texas) is a violent crime. It requires force or the threat of force.


LOL. Okay. Then forget my whole point :-)

iUser4Lyfe
Jun 15, 2011, 10:10 PM
Ok does this sound better: Parts of the USA still have death sentencing and the national government is tolerating this instead of banning it nation wide.

This is a truly ridiculous statement. Lets go ahead a rip up the Constitution while the Government is banning things nation wide.

rmanbike
Jun 15, 2011, 10:47 PM
As most crimes in China dont get reported or recorded by the state run media

toomanyipods
Jun 15, 2011, 10:53 PM
I have always wished companies would offer two versions. A cheap version to be competetive and a socially conscious green version. Some customers would pay more for a product that was environmentally friendly and socially aware.

Sadly, you would need two versions as some comptitor would just make it in the third world and undersell you.

But Apple has the cachet to pull this off and create some needed jobs and pay in needed areas.

The Canadian Company, Chariot Carriers has done just that. They sell a very nice and flexible product, that does carry a price premium. It is made in Canada, is lightweight, more durable, and considered one of the best in the industry. They also sell the "Cabriolet", which is a heavier, foreign made model, that sells for 15-20% less, or so. We bought one of the more expensive models, and I don't regret the purchase.

They seem to be very successful in this marketing approach.

www.chariotcarriers.com/

Snowy_River
Jun 15, 2011, 11:01 PM
...Prison isn't even a practical deterrent for a lot of violent crimes. That notwithstanding, there are many other effective deterrents available than prison...

To help some people understand your point a bit better, there have been suggestions made, from time to time, that prisons should be replaced with labor camps where a criminal who committed a nonviolent crime must work off the debt to society. For example, if I stole a car and wrecked it, was then caught and found guilty, assessed a fine of $10,000 plus the value of the car, say $35,000, I would be sent to a work camp where I would be put to work using what skills I have. My income would have to pay for the cost of my "room and board", and anything left over would go toward paying off my $45,000 debt to society. There are numerous variations on this model, including both the idea of these camps being government run, much like a make-work prison system, as well as the possibility of these being private "camps". To date, usually, when such ideas are brought up, for every proponent there are ten opponents.

But, the main point is that simply putting someone in prison is not the only way to run a (nonviolent) punishment system.

This is a truly ridiculous statement. Lets go ahead a rip up the Constitution while the Government is banning things nation wide.

Yes, there is no way that any activity that the majority of Americans think of as being unethical can be banned nation wide without ripping up the Constitution. I mean, let's hope that no one ever thinks that banning alcohol would be a good thing. That could never be banned nation wide... Oh, wait...

iUser4Lyfe
Jun 15, 2011, 11:14 PM
To help some people understand your point a bit better, there have been suggestions made, from time to time, that prisons should be replaced with labor camps where a criminal who committed a nonviolent crime must work off the debt to society. For example, if I stole a car and wrecked it, was then caught and found guilty, assessed a fine of $10,000 plus the value of the car, say $35,000, I would be sent to a work camp where I would be put to work using what skills I have. My income would have to pay for the cost of my "room and board", and anything left over would go toward paying off my $45,000 debt to society. There are numerous variations on this model, including both the idea of these camps being government run, much like a make-work prison system, as well as the possibility of these being private "camps". To date, usually, when such ideas are brought up, for every proponent there are ten opponents.

But, the main point is that simply putting someone in prison is not the only way to run a (nonviolent) punishment system.



Yes, there is no way that any activity that the majority of Americans think of as being unethical can be banned nation wide without ripping up the Constitution. I mean, let's hope that no one ever thinks that banning alcohol would be a good thing. That could never be banned nation wide... Oh, wait...

Oh because that is a great example a law in which many people would argue almost ruined the country.

Prohibition was basically an experiment that failed EPICALLY.

JAT
Jun 15, 2011, 11:29 PM
Its likely such statistics (e.g. Beijing or Shanghai vs NYC, LA, SF, etc) would make the crime in the US seem even worse. I've lived in several large cities around the world, Beijing being the largest and indeed the safest - extremely rare accounts of violent crime or crime against women, women comfortable walking alone at night, etc.

That's probably due to a overly harsh criminal justice system that some will admonish on human rights grounds, perhaps rightfully so, but its hard to take seriously anyone that thinks violent crime is a serious issue in Chinese cities (for common citizens).
Maybe they just don't have as many ___holes living in China.

The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....
How are your plans for the post-Jobs era going? Got a date set, yet?
To help some people understand your point a bit better, there have been suggestions made, from time to time, that prisons should be replaced with labor camps where a criminal who committed a nonviolent crime must work off the debt to society. For example, if I stole a car and wrecked it, was then caught and found guilty, assessed a fine of $10,000 plus the value of the car, say $35,000, I would be sent to a work camp where I would be put to work using what skills I have. My income would have to pay for the cost of my "room and board", and anything left over would go toward paying off my $45,000 debt to society. There are numerous variations on this model, including both the idea of these camps being government run, much like a make-work prison system, as well as the possibility of these being private "camps". To date, usually, when such ideas are brought up, for every proponent there are ten opponents.

Isn't that what Walmart is?

LarryC
Jun 16, 2011, 12:28 AM
This is a truly ridiculous statement. Lets go ahead a rip up the Constitution while the Government is banning things nation wide.

It is good to see that there are still some people in America who care about the Constitution. All we need now is for another 300 million people to wake up.

SandynJosh
Jun 16, 2011, 12:37 AM
Wow they are intense on this stuff.

Going to jail over information/parts from an electrical device. Heck of a way to go out.

Actually they did it solely so MacRumors could post the photos and we could argue about what it all means...they did it for US and we should be elated.

Snowy_River
Jun 16, 2011, 12:53 AM
Oh because that is a great example a law in which many people would argue almost ruined the country.

Prohibition was basically an experiment that failed EPICALLY.

And, of course, you totally missed the point. While Prohibition was misguided, at best, it was a national ban that was enacted in a way that was consistent with the Constitution. No ripping up of the Constitution there.

Also, there is, in fact, a completely Constitutional method of banning the death penalty nation wide without the need for a Constitutional amendment (as was the case for Prohibition). That is simply to have the Supreme Court find that the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment (which a LOT of people think that it is), which puts it in violation of the eighth amendment. Once again, no shredding of the Constitution. Some might argue that it is in fact hold up the Constitution...

caspersoong
Jun 16, 2011, 01:14 AM
Chinese are really strict, it is true. But I agree that the sentence is reasonable. They are making Apple lose lots of money.

flottenheimer
Jun 16, 2011, 01:20 AM
Crazy.

japasneezemonk
Jun 16, 2011, 01:29 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/534.32 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

The rumor and tech sites that posted the leaked info should all join togheter and help these people out. Seriously severe punishment for some goofy leaks.

MorphingDragon
Jun 16, 2011, 01:37 AM
USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

The Death Sentence is merciful relief compared to Chinese Prisons.

b0blndsy
Jun 16, 2011, 01:57 AM
Honestly, if Apple were really a great company, they'd build their hardware in countries that respect human rights. Yes, it would cost more. Think different.

I differ here, all most all the Apple products are being manufactured in China and this is the first instance of product leakage. Also these things can happen any part of this globe. Bribery and corruption is in existence in all countries from thousand of years :(

kiljoy616
Jun 16, 2011, 03:05 AM
USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

So does China your point?

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/534.32 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

The rumor and tech sites that posted the leaked info should all join togheter and help these people out. Seriously severe punishment for some goofy leaks.

Blame Apple for that kind of paranoia. So it makes sense that Chinese Government is going to be way more severe if it could prejudiced the lucrative business Apple brings in.

Not blaming Apple completely but it is the most paranoid company I can think off when it comes to even small leaks. Like if we know before hand we would not buy the product. :rolleyes:

tetravus
Jun 16, 2011, 03:29 AM
Wow, that's sad. It's a freaking Ipad an electronic device for crying out loud. I would hate to know what happens to you for a really serious crime.

That's really simple. You will be sentenced to death by firing squad; and you have to pay for the cost of the bullet. The reason the jails are full in the US is because they're too lenient on criminals.

In case you haven't noticed; stealing trade secrets is a serious crime in the US too.

VenusianSky
Jun 16, 2011, 08:24 AM
USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

Do you understand what the "United States of America" is? Some states of the US have the death sentence for pretty much only first degree murder.

SoGood
Jun 16, 2011, 08:57 AM
How do you reconcile the fact that pirate DVDs and BDs are sold with impunity on the streets and in the malls of China - yet a few people go to prison for selling minor Apple secrets?

It doesn't seem "fair and balanced" - why is sharing Apple's IP a crime worth prison, yet "sharing" a director's cut of the Avator BD is ignored?

Inquiring minds want to know....
Nothing to do with AAPL IP. This is white collar crime, involving bribery (RMB200,000/US$31,000 being reported in Western press). As for DVD pirating. Well, PirateBay.org is alive and well supported in the Western Hemisphere, so why should others worry. Not much difference there.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/534.32 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

The rumor and tech sites that posted the leaked info should all join togheter and help these people out. Seriously severe punishment for some goofy leaks.
Don't be stupid! They leaked not for rumour sites, but was paid by a accessories/equipment company staff to attain significant commercial advantage.

marksman
Jun 16, 2011, 10:22 AM
This is clearly not something a person should sit in prison for.. so what, they leaked pictures of a tablet computer, I think firing them would probably be harsh enough, maybe even a fine but not prison!

It is a crime and such acts could potentially cost many people their jobs.

It is amazing how people think this is not something that should be dealt with...

It is amazing how many people here think stealing information from your employer that is proprietary and selling it is no big deal.

It's not a criminal offense in the United States. You would not go to jail here for doing this. You might get fired, you might be completely unpalatable to other employers, you might be sued, your career might be finished. But you would not go to jail for divulging trade secrets.

Orly? Reality would tend to disagree.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/23/news/newsmakers/coke/

"Two former Coca-Cola employees were sentenced Wednesday to serve federal prison terms for conspiring to steal and sell trade secrets to rival Pepsi."

Stealing is stealing. If you take something of someone's without their permission and then sell it or try to sell it, you are stealing.

Trog7g
Jun 16, 2011, 10:30 AM
Do you not believe his crime was serious enough to be executed? Is there rehabilitating someone like this?

McVeigh, from what I know as a former peace officer, felt no remorse and felt he could have done more. He did acknowledge he may have picked another target if he had known about the children but felt it was a necessary price to pay. He knew the price he would pay if he was caught. He also stopped all appeals to stop his execution. So no, I do not think he could have been rehabilitated.

I've seen what people are capable of doing to each other and have seen some pretty gruesome things but to pick through the remains of 160 people from a single act by essentially a single person... Yes, I think what he got was more than deserved.

rovex
Jun 16, 2011, 12:18 PM
McVeigh looks a bit like Eminem

ActionableMango
Jun 16, 2011, 12:26 PM
Ever heard of whole foods? They are decidedly far more expensive than your typical grocery store, yet there is a market for them and they seem to be doing rather well. Why?

Because rich people like snobby stores and they don't have to rub elbows with us "normal folk".

That said, China has less people in prison per capita than the US, less violent crime per capita and less theft per capita. So something works.

Where did you get these numbers? Statistics provided by the Chinese government for public consumption show whatever they want to show. They have no relation to reality whatsoever. Their government is very keen on proving that their system results in social harmony and is superior to all other systems.

JasperJanssen
Jun 16, 2011, 03:21 PM
Agree completely. I too have brought this up in the past and usually get flamed for it. Add an option on the BTO page for this "other" version and I'll gladly pay $50 more or whatever the amount is (within reason of course).

$50? Are you *serious*?!

You should be in thinking in terms of *multiplying* the cost, not adding tiny fractions to it. Particularly given that virtually nobody will buy it because of the cost, think $1000-$1500 rather than $550. You might, though, get 64G+Wifi versions only, because when you start building several versions it's even more ridiculous.

This is, of course, with fabbing everything from silicon and screen to assembly being done in the West. If it's *just* final assembly, you might be more in line with $100-200 extra. But then, 80% of the bad things are still happening in China, so really, what's the point.

Where did you get these numbers? Statistics provided by the Chinese government for public consumption show whatever they want to show. They have no relation to reality whatsoever. Their government is very keen on proving that their system results in social harmony and is superior to all other systems.

Try looking up a ranking for these figures. The USA is so far ahead of *everybody*, including all the reputable countries, that it would be odd if the Chinese were an exception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

Tipsy
Jun 16, 2011, 03:30 PM
Per capita should be measured by comparable cities not nationally. For anything meaningful, anyway.

Unless you're trying to assess what percentage of a whole nation's population is imprisoned, which I think is quite meaningful. Setting China aside - I don't trust their stats - the US would seem to have a far, far higher rate of imprisonment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) than any major developed nation - about 5x higher than that in the UK, for example. (and before anyone goes 'it's wikipedia!!1', its sourced to King's College London)

You might want to go read the Constitution and see what it says about the ability of "the national government" to "ban" things "nation wide."

The peculiarities of your system of governance are no excuse for your governments, at whatever level, continuing to kill people.

Do you not believe his crime was serious enough to be executed? Is there rehabilitating someone like this?

There have been people imprisoned for life terms who have later been released because of new evidence, people who may in different circumstances may have been given the death penalty on the same burden of proof. I believe McVeigh admitted his guilt, but others don't (or might expecting a reduced sentence) and are still killed by the US or state governments. It seems very unlikely they're all guilty.

Well deserved prison term in a country where large bribes can land the death sentence.

Well deserved? Assuming you read the stories on this site and don't just troll the forums, you, like me, are helping to fuel the demand for these leaks by bringing traffic to the websites that publicise this information and paid the people who got it. What a shame there's no prison sentence for lack of compassion - and self-awareness.

smali
Jun 16, 2011, 06:33 PM
So its ok for factory owners in China to ruin the enviroment, ruin people's lives who live near these factories by introducing cancer inducing **** into the water and make the air so toxic you have to wear a filter 24/7?? and they get off scot-free?? Yet release a few pics of a silly toy and you are sent down? What is this madness...:(

Lord Jobs deserves his cancer.

cmaier
Jun 16, 2011, 08:52 PM
So its ok for factory owners in China to ruin the enviroment, ruin people's lives who live near these factories by introducing cancer inducing **** into the water and make the air so toxic you have to wear a filter 24/7?? and they get off scot-free?? Yet release a few pics of a silly toy and you are sent down? What is this madness...:(

Lord Jobs deserves his cancer.

First, that's despicable.

Second, what did Steve Jobs do? You think he controls China's legal system?

Cavepainter
Jun 16, 2011, 08:58 PM
The US as a country still has the death penalty for federal offenses. Timothy McVeigh was executed under federal jurisdiction.

So?

All poor Timothy McVeigh did to get such a terrible nasty fate is blow up a truck bomb right in front of a full government office building, killing 168 people, injured another 450, totaled a multimillion dollar federal building paid for with tens of thousands of people's hard-earned tax money, and ultimately damaged and altered countless thousands of lives of friends and relatives. That's all he did.

Poor Timothy McVeigh.


:rolleyes:

yiyopr
Jun 16, 2011, 10:59 PM
So?

All poor Timothy McVeigh did to get such a terrible nasty fate is blow up a truck bomb right in front of a full government office building, killing 168 people, injured another 450, totaled a multimillion dollar federal building paid for with tens of thousands of people's hard-earned tax money, and ultimately damaged and altered countless thousands of lives of friends and relatives. That's all he did.

Poor Timothy McVeigh.


:rolleyes:

Why would you have pity for this man. After what you've told me I have absolutely no pity for him!

-----EDIT------

Oh its sarcasm! I get it.

Open Your Eyes
Jun 16, 2011, 11:24 PM
You guys still actually wonder why no Apple information leaks?

Cavepainter
Jun 17, 2011, 02:50 PM
Why would you have pity for this man. After what you've told me I have absolutely no pity for him!

-----EDIT------

Oh its sarcasm! I get it.


Haha.. more calls for a sarcasm font..... Apple, you listening?

inkswamp
Jun 23, 2011, 01:26 PM
Yes, while it's banned in some states, others are still happy to execute those who couldn't afford proper legal representation and/or are mentally retarded (although I understand this may be taking a slight turn for the better). The land of the free doesn't apply to all I'm afraid.

Ok does this sound better: Parts of the USA still have death sentencing and the national government is tolerating this instead of banning it nation wide.

The US as a country still has the death penalty for federal offenses. Timothy McVeigh was executed under federal jurisdiction.

None of you are addressing the point I was originally making which is that you cannot generalize about a country as big and diverse as the US. Those of you doing so, especially those of you outside the US and unfamiliar with the way things work here, are revealing some serious ignorance. Yes, there are parts of the US where the death penalty is still put to use but there are plenty of states where its use has been banned.

Again, each state has the ability to dictate its own laws in this regard and most act of their own accord. If you understand that, then you'd see that any effort to paint the entire country with a broad brush on this topic is a meaningless exercise.

A simple Google search would have shown this:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/states-and-without-death-penalty

And if you research further, you'll find that many of the states that haven't yet banned it, make it a such a difficult option for prosecutors to go after that it's often not even pursued.

henchman
Jun 25, 2011, 10:23 PM
I have always wished companies would offer two versions. A cheap version to be competetive and a socially conscious green version. Some customers would pay more for a product that was environmentally friendly and socially aware.

Sadly, you would need two versions as some comptitor would just make it in the third world and undersell you.

But Apple has the cachet to pull this off and create some needed jobs and pay in needed areas.

Apple, with all the billions it has, would never think of doing this.
They don't care about working conditions.
Or how their stuff is made.
Apple only ares about the price of it's stock.

First, that's despicable.

Second, what did Steve Jobs do? You think he controls China's legal system?

Steve jobs did nothing.
And will do nothing.
And that's the point.

Because rich people like snobby stores and they don't have to rub elbows with us "normal folk".

Yep.
Whole foods is highly overrated.

vvswarup
Jun 26, 2011, 03:32 AM
I wonder how much Big Brother Apple had to do with this?
Would not put it past them to have asked for stern punishment to protect their silly little secrets.

It's comments like this that utterly disgust me. What you call "silly little secrets" is worth billions of dollars to Apple.

Oh and your first sentence is nothing but a baseless conspiracy theory.

You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK. :confused:

It's not just leaking photographs. That will get you fired. These people were allegedly selling secrets about the iPad 2. Evidently, that's illegal.

Wow, this is such ********. This is so far away from a proportionate response that it's not even funny.

While it is yet to be known how much input Apple had in this outcome, if it transpires that they pushed for a prosecution knowing this could be on the cards then I'd lose just about any respect I ever had for them as a company.

Why exactly is that? Put yourself in Apple's shoes. You've spent billions of dollars in R&D on the iPad. You've gone through so much trouble to keep the product a secret in order to avoid showing your hand to competitors. Here is an employee of one of your partners who has been selling confidential information about this product.

This isn't "cool", Apple - no more than knocking down the door of someone's house over a lost telephone.

While it may not feed your conspiracy-theory mongering sentiments, Apple doesn't have any authority to break into somebody's house. The police have that authority. And that someone was trafficking stolen property.

If the younger people (you know, the ones who spend their days at the Apple store updating their Facebook pages) figure out that Apple is really "the man" - 50% drop in stock value at the start.

Apple will fall faster than Mubarak....

What exactly is "the man?" And what control do those younger people have over Apple's stock?

JAT
Jun 26, 2011, 09:22 PM
Steve jobs did nothing.
And will do nothing.
And that's the point.
SJ has no jurisdiction or power to change Chinese law, just like you. What exactly are you asking? That's just stupid in relation to this story.

Tulpa
Jun 27, 2011, 02:23 AM
That said, China has less people in prison per capita than the US, less violent crime per capita and less theft per capita. So something works.

What's "working" is probably the per capita execution rate over 100x that of the US and omnipresent police and government surveillance. If you're willing to make that tradeoff maybe you should move there.

I'm not happy with our justice system either, but let's not go full mentally challenged with the moral equivalency.

greenmeanie
Jun 27, 2011, 06:52 AM
Oh Please they never use the darn thing and should!

USA still has the death sentence. I'd be very careful with comparisons.

Dark Void
Jun 27, 2011, 06:56 AM
seems a little unnecessary.