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MacRumors
Jun 16, 2011, 12:50 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/16/apple-holding-new-mac-hardware-updates-until-os-x-lion-launches/)


AppleInsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/16/apple_may_freeze_new_mac_introductions_until_release_of_mac_os_x_lion.html) that it has received word that Apple is holding back on releasing updated Mac models in order to wait for work on OS X Lion to be completed. Apple is reportedly "so pumped up" about Lion that it wants to ship the new machines with Lion preinstalled rather than forcing users to upgrade on their own once the new operating system is released next month.For instance, new Thunderbolt-enabled Sandy Bridge MacBook Air models expected to go into production this month have been ready and waiting for some time, according to people familiar with the matter. But management is currently unwilling to usher the new models into the market with the current Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard operating system.

Instead, the Mac maker is said to be locked on waiting till it can image the new notebooks with a Gold Master build of Lion so that buyers are afforded the latest and greatest Apple experience.Thunderbolt-equipped Mac minis and LED Cinema Displays are also said to be on hold as Apple puts the finishing touches on OS X Lion.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/os_x_lion_advances_even_further.jpg


Apple has only announced that OS X Lion will launch in July, declining to share an exact release date so far. The release will be a Mac App Store exclusive, and will be priced at $29.99. Through the Lion Up-to-Date program (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/07/lion-up-to-date-buy-a-new-mac-now-get-lion-free-later/), users who purchase or have purchased a Mac between June 6th and the official Lion release will receive a free upgrade to Lion.

Consequently, Apple's desire to hold back on releasing updated Macs is not related to saving customers money on the upgrade but instead seems focused on offering customers the latest and greatest software experience right out of the box and removing any inconvenience associated with upgrading.

Article Link: Apple Holding New Mac Hardware Updates Until OS X Lion Launches? (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/16/apple-holding-new-mac-hardware-updates-until-os-x-lion-launches/)



Sixtafoua
Jun 16, 2011, 12:54 PM
I wonder if they're doing the same for software (iWork)

strabes
Jun 16, 2011, 12:55 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Come on Apple I'll upgrade my new MBA myself! You're killing me with this wait!

jav6454
Jun 16, 2011, 12:55 PM
I see their point.

asdf542
Jun 16, 2011, 12:55 PM
Despite all of the doom and gloom theories that get posted on these forums, I personally can't wait for Lion.

fristuff
Jun 16, 2011, 12:55 PM
can't wait for the mba!

campingsk8er
Jun 16, 2011, 12:56 PM
If I buy a MacBook Pro, lets say one week after Lion gets released, Will it ship with Lion, or will it ship with Snow Leopard, and then I have to upgrade to Lion?

chrono1081
Jun 16, 2011, 12:57 PM
Apple is all about the user experience and I think many people would be mad if they bought a new machine and then had to upgrade a few weeks later to a new OS.

mex4eric
Jun 16, 2011, 12:57 PM
The Cinema Displays need an OS?????

Yvan256
Jun 16, 2011, 12:58 PM
I'd rather see a Mac mini upgrade with Thunderbolt, a Core i5/i7 CPU and a dedicated GPU with its own RAM at the cost of removing the optical drive. If you need one, the MacBook Air external drive works fine with the unibody Mac mini.

hlfway2anywhere
Jun 16, 2011, 12:58 PM
If I buy a MacBook Pro, lets say one week after Lion gets released, Will it ship with Lion, or will it ship with Snow Leopard, and then I have to upgrade to Lion?

If you buy it from apple.com it'll probably ship with Lion. If you buy it from anywhere else, it will come with SL because it will have been packaged some time before the release of Lion.

CFreymarc
Jun 16, 2011, 12:59 PM
:(

Duh! I'm intentionally holding off on any new Mac hardware til Lion is out.

Nitrocide
Jun 16, 2011, 12:59 PM
A bit rubbish to force 10.7.0 on to users when Snow Leopards so refined now.

latsyrhc
Jun 16, 2011, 12:59 PM
good to know - waiting to buy a MBA.

campingsk8er
Jun 16, 2011, 01:00 PM
if you buy it from apple.com it'll probably ship with lion. If you buy it from anywhere else, it will come with sl because it will have been packaged some time before the release of lion.

thanks!!!!!

goodcow
Jun 16, 2011, 01:02 PM
It's a fact that any .0 software release, especially Apple's, is going to be full of bugs, so this doesn't sound like a very good idea.

ratzzo
Jun 16, 2011, 01:02 PM
No wonder, Apple has no rush and is logical that they want to integrate their latest OS with their latest hardware.

ECUpirate44
Jun 16, 2011, 01:02 PM
I thought the whole point of putting Lion in the app store was so it wasn't an inconvenience?

Radoo
Jun 16, 2011, 01:02 PM
This is madness... They sure know how to make the intensity go up. Lion itself isn't creating high waves, but now that are many people waiting for new Minis and Airs, the release of the new OS combined with new HW is bound to create histeria. :D:apple:

jclardy
Jun 16, 2011, 01:04 PM
So if you buy a machine with Lion installed...does it register as purchasing Lion on your iTunes account?

Cause if not this is a little lame as with the up-to-date program you would get the upgrade for free which I assume would work on all your machines as it would be like buying it from the Mac App Store.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 16, 2011, 01:04 PM
Get real. Seriously. Not everything in this world is a big conspiracy. Everything you wrote has absolutely no truth or merit.

Apple is all about the user experience and I think many people would be mad if they bought a new machine and then had to upgrade a few weeks later to a new OS.

No. Please don't lie.

Apple is a big conspirator and would even go to the extent of integrating bombs into motherboards just for the sake of killing innocent people. Apple is evil.

iNeedToDoHw
Jun 16, 2011, 01:04 PM
unbelievable.

bohbot16
Jun 16, 2011, 01:04 PM
I wonder if other machines besides the Air will transition to the USB stick for recovery. Alternatively, they could move toward relying on the recovery partition.

housecat
Jun 16, 2011, 01:05 PM
ack! no new mba for another month

Darlo770
Jun 16, 2011, 01:05 PM
Awww. This doesn't include the new Time Capsules too does it? I can't wait any longer :(

bohbot16
Jun 16, 2011, 01:06 PM
So if you buy a machine with Lion installed...does it register as purchasing Lion on your iTunes account?

Cause if not this is a little lame as with the up-to-date program you would get the upgrade for free which I assume would work on all your machines as it would be like buying it from the Mac App Store.

What happens on Snow Leopard Macs today with the iLife programs? To they show up as purchased in the Mac App Store?

m0nkeyb0y
Jun 16, 2011, 01:07 PM
Well this kinda sucks. I really wanted a new MBA before I left the country. I don't want to pay Euro prices just because I'm there for 2 months. :(

DocNYz
Jun 16, 2011, 01:08 PM
No. Please don't lie.

Apple is a big conspirator and would even go to the extent of integrating bombs into motherboards just for the sake of killing innocent people. Apple is evil.

That's about 90% of forum participants' belief. Also I laughed and snot came out of my nose when I read this.

hystery
Jun 16, 2011, 01:09 PM
A pity but must admit, it just makes sense... but more 2 or 3 weeks...

OllyW
Jun 16, 2011, 01:09 PM
What happens on Snow Leopard Macs today with the iLife programs? To they show up as purchased in the Mac App Store?

They show up as installed but not as purchased and updates for the iLife apps still come through Software Update.

*LTD*
Jun 16, 2011, 01:09 PM
Guys, it's only a month away.

Simmias
Jun 16, 2011, 01:10 PM
Of course they are waiting. I knew immediately the rumors of an MBA launch last week were false. Why wouldn't they wait just a few weeks to ship with Lion?

Nebulance
Jun 16, 2011, 01:11 PM
No. Please don't lie.

Apple is a big conspirator and would even go to the extent of integrating bombs into motherboards just for the sake of killing innocent people. Apple is evil.

if you can't stand Apple so much, why are you even here?

(that is, if you're not being sarcastic, I can't tell ;) )

bacan1
Jun 16, 2011, 01:12 PM
This is a bit annoying. I would prefer to have the MBA now and just upgrade it myself once Lion is ready. If I wanted to have it installed out of the box I would just wait to buy until after Lion is out. Why do we all have to wait? I wonder what kind of a delay we're looking at here while they load the MBAs with Lion.

c88ms
Jun 16, 2011, 01:15 PM
The question now is when (exact date) is Lion coming out?

I say early July but who knows.

osx11
Jun 16, 2011, 01:16 PM
Good to know that all the new hardware is sitting in some Chinese warehouse.

Hellhammer
Jun 16, 2011, 01:16 PM
Get real. Seriously. Not everything in this world is a big conspiracy. Everything you wrote has absolutely no truth or merit.

Apple is all about the user experience and I think many people would be mad if they bought a new machine and then had to upgrade a few weeks later to a new OS.

Historically speaking, what Apple has done is to release new hardware just before the OS. For instance the mid-2009 update for MBPs was done only ~2 months before the release of Snow Leopard. Doesn't mean that it is relevant to today's situation but it wouldn't be a new thing.

Cougarcat
Jun 16, 2011, 01:17 PM
I wonder if other machines besides the Air will transition to the USB stick for recovery. Alternatively, they could move toward relying on the recovery partition.

I think it'll be the latter, unfortunately.

Why release MBAs now when Apple can wait a month and avoid making media for it entirely?

42streetsdown
Jun 16, 2011, 01:18 PM
Apple is all about the user experience and I think many people would be mad if they bought a new machine and then had to upgrade a few weeks later to a new OS.

I'd rather be able to get the new Air quicker. Upgrading an OS isn't that big of a deal. The anticipation of the new Air is killing me as is. I don't want to wait even longer!

nizmoz
Jun 16, 2011, 01:19 PM
This makes me mad. I have already been waiting 3 weeks for the new MBA and really need a laptop again. Now I have to wait till next month?! I hopefully can wait that long but I might have to break down and get the current MBA sadly.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 16, 2011, 01:19 PM
I think it'll be the latter, unfortunately.

Why release MBAs now when Apple can wait a month and avoid making media for it entirely?

So if you upgrade your HD how exactly do you install lion?

Edit: I guess they could have a built in recovery drive that connects to the internet and DLs it (think PXE) or a recovery drive that contains an OS image (though that solution would require a lot more hardware investment)

superfula
Jun 16, 2011, 01:19 PM
It's a fact that any .0 software release, especially Apple's, is going to be full of bugs, so this doesn't sound like a very good idea.

It's a fact that ANY software release regardless of build, version number, or company, is going to be full of bugs.

Marx55
Jun 16, 2011, 01:21 PM
"offering customers the latest and greatest software experience"

Really?

Why they do not fix then the bugs that plague Mac OS X? And why do they keep on charging for new versions of something that is basically new beta versions of Mac OS X 10.0? It seems that Apple is too busy with iOS instead.

sclawis300
Jun 16, 2011, 01:22 PM
Too bad they are not going to save me the inconvenience of purchasing two OSs so I can use Lion.

ResPublica
Jun 16, 2011, 01:22 PM
I don't think Apple has ever done that before. It's a good thing for 'simple' users, it's not a good thing for high-end users. I'd love to be able to run Snow Leopard on a new Macbook Air, just in case I would have to run a PowerPC app. And I don't like Apple forcing us to wait.

alust2013
Jun 16, 2011, 01:22 PM
Yeah, I really don't think that makes sense, especially given that there will be bugs. I'm definitely not upgrading at the first release, if I even upgrade at all.

Cougarcat
Jun 16, 2011, 01:23 PM
So if you upgrade your HD how exactly do you install lion?



You take it to Apple to upgrade/replace your HD. :(

Herdfan
Jun 16, 2011, 01:25 PM
A bit rubbish to force 10.7.0 on to users when Snow Leopards so refined now.

That was my thought.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 16, 2011, 01:26 PM
FYI: In the past though Apple has done releases before OS's and included Drop in Kits or free upgrades.

bdkennedy1
Jun 16, 2011, 01:27 PM
Seriously?

So if you buy a machine with Lion installed...does it register as purchasing Lion on your iTunes account?

Cause if not this is a little lame as with the up-to-date program you would get the upgrade for free which I assume would work on all your machines as it would be like buying it from the Mac App Store.

Thomas2006
Jun 16, 2011, 01:28 PM
makes sense
Not really. Apple released the iBook G4 a couple of weeks before Panther was released so I doubt it has to do with making things convenient for customers.

If a person buys an updated Mac mini and is not impressed with what Lion has to offer then that person can stay with Snow Leopard for a long time. By waiting until Lion is released before updating the Macs then Apple is guaranteed to get that many more people using Lion.

sclawis300
Jun 16, 2011, 01:30 PM
I have a question. If my macbook dies on me and it is running Leopard and I buy a brand new MBA with Lion. Will I be able to recover everything from time machine?

gregorsamsa
Jun 16, 2011, 01:30 PM
I've been waiting for an updated Mini for months, so I guess what's a few weeks more. :rolleyes:

That said, plan B here is to buy a current refurb if updates don't happen next month.

TBH, not too fussed about Lion. SL is fine for my needs & since buying a PC a few weeks back, a lot of my time is spent in Windows 7 anyway. But here's hoping for updates no later than July!

shanmugam
Jun 16, 2011, 01:31 PM
I do not think it makes sense ... unless so many things are tied for iCloud and OS Lion

it may be convenient for the end users, but .zero release, i will wait for few release before upgrading

acslater017
Jun 16, 2011, 01:34 PM
A bit rubbish to force 10.7.0 on to users when Snow Leopards so refined now.

You expect them to promote Lion as a great thing and then ship brand new computers with the previous OS? :rolleyes:

acslater017
Jun 16, 2011, 01:35 PM
If I buy a MacBook Pro, lets say one week after Lion gets released, Will it ship with Lion, or will it ship with Snow Leopard, and then I have to upgrade to Lion?

Anything bought between WWDC (June 6) and the premiere of Lion (July) will ship with Snow Leopard but receive a free download of Lion. :) So buy away, unless you're waiting for a hardware refresh :)

wikus
Jun 16, 2011, 01:35 PM
Will it be possible to revert to OS 10.6 with my current install disc if I purchase a macbook pro next month with Lion?

tredstone
Jun 16, 2011, 01:36 PM
Given that supplies are already constrained on things like the Mini, I'm not sure this is a practical strategy unless the plan is to release Lion early in July. Otherwise there's going to be a long period where retailers (like best buy) will be backordered. BB is already backordered on the Mini.

azentropy
Jun 16, 2011, 01:38 PM
Seems silly if the machines are ready. For me, I like some of the new features in Lion but there are a lot of things I don't like as well. I'm in the market for a new Mac Pro or possibly Mac mini and it would be nice to not to have to go to Lion or even be able to set it up as dual boot.

acslater017
Jun 16, 2011, 01:38 PM
On the bright side, maybe this means that Lion is almost ready to ship! The more they wait, the more sales losses they incur, right? So unless Lion is coming soon, they probably wouldn't wait to premiere a new piece of hardware.

At least that's my theory.

314631
Jun 16, 2011, 01:38 PM
This is great news for customers. Snow Leopard is a steaming pile of dog **** compared to the brilliance of OSX Lion. It makes sense Apple wants to make sure all their customers are taking advantage of the pioneering technologies found in Lion.

ghsNick
Jun 16, 2011, 01:39 PM
So I can do the B2S deal now or in later July with Lion installed.

Here are my questions:

Would it take up less space/be better for my MBP to just wait and have Lion on it so my hard drive doesn't have SL too?

Or, would it be better getting it now with SL so if Lion ***** the bed with bugs I could go back?

Or is my wonder irrelevant? lol

tbrinkma
Jun 16, 2011, 01:39 PM
"offering customers the latest and greatest software experience"

Really?

Why they do not fix then the bugs that plague Mac OS X?

They do. on a regular basis.

Rocketman
Jun 16, 2011, 01:39 PM
I am excited about the release and even about the hardware alignment effort. I will probably purchase both a desktop and an iPad 3 this year. What scares me deeply is 10.7.0.

I hope they have 10.6.x on the drive for multi-boot purposes so I do not have to try and hack an external 10.4.11 drive in case 10.7.1 and 10.7.2 are many months/moons away after release.

Who wants to bet if 10.7.0 is even stable most of the time?

Rocketman

cite:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/16/apple-has-a-poor-track-record-on-dot-zero-releases/

Vol7ron
Jun 16, 2011, 01:39 PM
You expect them to promote Lion as a great thing and then ship brand new computers with the previous OS? :rolleyes:

Why not, that is what Microsoft did with Vista....LOL, Vista is awesome, but you can still buy XP on them if you want.....(please note sarcasm....Apple is nothing like Microsoft....just couldn't resist saying that)

LarryC
Jun 16, 2011, 01:41 PM
What bothers me is that there is still no mention of a refreshed MacBook :( Oh well, I guess I'll be buying a low-end MacBook Pro.

lilo777
Jun 16, 2011, 01:41 PM
This is great news for customers. Snow Leopard is a steaming pile of dog **** compared to the brilliance of OSX Lion. It makes sense Apple wants to make sure all their customers are taking advantage of the pioneering technologies found in Lion.

Unfortunately, your sarcasm may get lost on some people.

ghsNick
Jun 16, 2011, 01:42 PM
Anything bought between WWDC (June 6) and the premiere of Lion (July) will ship with Snow Leopard but receive a free download of Lion. :) So buy away, unless you're waiting for a hardware refresh :)

I feel like I'm always "waiting" for the next best thing.
I definitely passed on the iPad 2 because I want the Retina Display with the next gen rumored for early 2012.
I passed on the i4 on Verizon because it was a 6 month old phone so I'll definitely be getting the i4s/i5 (whatever they call it).
And now I wondr about the MBP because of the rumored new design it's supposed to have next year.

Ahh if I just knew I would either buy/wait.

phpmaven
Jun 16, 2011, 01:42 PM
I don't think Apple has ever done that before. It's a good thing for 'simple' users, it's not a good thing for high-end users. I'd love to be able to run Snow Leopard on a new Macbook Air, just in case I would have to run a PowerPC app. And I don't like Apple forcing us to wait.

Seeing how a high percentage, probably over 90%, fall into the "simple" category, then it's a good thing.

Anything bought between WWDC (June 6) and the premiere of Lion (July) will ship with Snow Leopard but receive a free download of Lion. :) So buy away, unless you're waiting for a hardware refresh :)

Did you even read this thread? :rolleyes:

acslater017
Jun 16, 2011, 01:43 PM
I have a question. If my macbook dies on me and it is running Leopard and I buy a brand new MBA with Lion. Will I be able to recover everything from time machine?

That's an interesting question. I THINK if you restore from a Time Machine (as in boot from it on the very first startup), EVERYTHING is restored, including the OS. I don't think you will be able to pull up individual folders either.

If it were a simple matter of transferring files, then I'd just format the Time Machine hard drive as a normal storage device and put everything there until I got my new machine.

Popeye206
Jun 16, 2011, 01:43 PM
Why not, that is what Microsoft did with Vista....LOL, Vista is awesome, but you can still buy XP on them if you want.....(please note sarcasm....Apple is nothing like Microsoft....just couldn't resist saying that)

Wasn't Vista the world wide alpha and beta release of Windows 7? :p

I would guess if Apple is holding back hardware, then Lion must be close. I would think for inventory reasons holding more than a week or two wouldn't make sense as it might seriously constrain supply or delay sales.

rickster2k
Jun 16, 2011, 01:44 PM
Silly question, but will the Expose and Widget buttons still work on the keyboard when Lion is released?

Ravi-G
Jun 16, 2011, 01:45 PM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/16/apple-holding-new-mac-hardware-updates-until-os-x-lion-launches/)


AppleInsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/16/apple_may_freeze_new_mac_introductions_until_release_of_mac_os_x_lion.html) that it has received word that Apple is holding back on releasing updated Mac models in order to wait for work on OS X Lion to be completed. Apple is reportedly "so pumped up" about Lion that it wants to ship the new machines with Lion preinstalled rather than forcing users to upgrade on their own once the new operating system is released next month.Thunderbolt-equipped Mac minis and LED Cinema Displays are also said to be on hold as Apple puts the finishing touches on OS X Lion.

Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/os_x_lion_advances_even_further.jpg)


Apple has only announced that OS X Lion will launch in July, declining to share an exact release date so far. The release will be a Mac App Store exclusive, and will be priced at $29.99. Through the Lion Up-to-Date program (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/07/lion-up-to-date-buy-a-new-mac-now-get-lion-free-later/), users who purchase or have purchased a Mac between June 6th and the official Lion release will receive a free upgrade to Lion.

Consequently, Apple's desire to hold back on releasing updated Macs is not related to saving customers money on the upgrade but instead seems focused on offering customers the latest and greatest software experience right out of the box and removing any inconvenience associated with upgrading.

Article Link: Apple Holding New Mac Hardware Updates Until OS X Lion Launches? (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/16/apple-holding-new-mac-hardware-updates-until-os-x-lion-launches/)

Are there any new Imac models coming out as well or just MBA and Mac-minis?

xibis
Jun 16, 2011, 01:45 PM
Looks like i'm going to be waiting another month for a mac mini. Killing me!!!

wikus
Jun 16, 2011, 01:46 PM
Will it be possible to revert to OS 10.6 with my current install disc if I purchase a macbook pro next month with Lion?

Anyone?

*LTD*
Jun 16, 2011, 01:47 PM
This makes me mad. I have already been waiting 3 weeks for the new MBA and really need a laptop again. Now I have to wait till next month?! I hopefully can wait that long but I might have to break down and get the current MBA sadly.

You can't wait a few more weeks? What'll happen to what you use currently from now until then?


Will it be possible to revert to OS 10.6 with my current install disc if I purchase a macbook pro next month with Lion?

Why would you want to revert?

Normally you would just insert the install disc and do a clean install.

nizmoz
Jun 16, 2011, 01:48 PM
You can't wait a few more weeks? What'll happen to what you use currently from now until then?

I don't have a laptop since I sold my MBP and leaving town in July. So I kinda need something. I am going to ask work if I can borrow a Windows 7 netbook. Ugg.

snebes
Jun 16, 2011, 01:49 PM
Are there any new Imac models coming out as well or just MBA and Mac-minis?

You're kidding, right?

I bought my iMac on June 1 hoping to be part of the free upgrade.... missed out on that. I am still glad I have my new hardware now though, the increased resolution is a big plus for me.

Cougarcat
Jun 16, 2011, 01:50 PM
Anyone?

No, Macs can't run older versions of the OS than what they shipped with.

Are there any new Imac models coming out as well or just MBA and Mac-minis?

The iMacs were updated in April, so probably not. Fall at the earliest, early 2012 most likely.

wikus
Jun 16, 2011, 01:50 PM
Why would you want to revert?

Normally you would just insert the install disc and do a clean install.

Because Expose in Lion is botched and .0 releases always have bugs.

UnSainted
Jun 16, 2011, 01:50 PM
So many people here with Entitlement issues...

i.e. "I cant believe Apple is making me wait" .. Give me a break, really? I know its unfathomable to think that they didnt consult you first before making their plans.. Grow up kiddies.

And nobody is "forcing you" to wait.. You can buy the current line of products if you simply are unable to "wait".

iDemiurge
Jun 16, 2011, 01:51 PM
No one seems to care much about this. But I think a Cinema Displays with a thunderbolt hub sounds really sweat...

carldavidguta
Jun 16, 2011, 01:53 PM
Can anyone explain to me how to upgrade from Leopard to Lion (in July of course, not now)?

OllyW
Jun 16, 2011, 01:53 PM
Why would you want to revert?

You often find hardware and/or software that stop working when a new version of OS X is released. Audio interfaces are notorious for it.

*LTD*
Jun 16, 2011, 01:53 PM
I don't have a laptop since I sold my MBP and leaving town in July. So I kinda need something. I am going to ask work if I can borrow a Windows 7 netbook. Ugg.

That sucks. In your situation I'd take the loaner and wait until you can get want you really want, the time for which isn't too far away.

Sodner
Jun 16, 2011, 01:53 PM
No one seems to care much about this. But I think a Cinema Displays with a thunderbolt hub sounds really sweat...

And why do we have to wait for Lion to get a new display?

sclawis300
Jun 16, 2011, 01:54 PM
Can anyone explain to me how to upgrade from Leopard to Lion (in July of course, not now)?

Buy two operating systems.

iVoid
Jun 16, 2011, 01:54 PM
So you're killing 1-2 months of hardware sales to have a little dual introduction of hardware and the final Lion? Bad idea.

I'm ready to upgrade, but won't until I see the next revs of the mini/pro/air/whatever.

gri
Jun 16, 2011, 01:54 PM
I see their point.

I don't. Download update from the store - done. Now people who need a new computer have to buy one knowing that new stuff is coming out but some just cannot wait (not me, thankfully). Probably a bad comparison but its kind of saying hey, we are not selling you the new and improved drug we have that really will cure you because we need to wait for the real new cool packaging...

sclawis300
Jun 16, 2011, 01:55 PM
That sucks. In your situation I'd take the loaner and wait until you can get want you really want, the time for which isn't too far away.

Isn't there are return window? Can't you buy one, then return it when the new one comes out and upgrade then?

*LTD*
Jun 16, 2011, 01:55 PM
You often find hardware and/or software that stop working when a new version of OS X is released. Music interfaces are notorious for it.

Ah, this is true.

Am I correct in assuming you can simply use the SL install disc with the upcoming Macs (that are preloaded with Lion) ?

gri
Jun 16, 2011, 01:55 PM
The Cinema Displays need an OS?????

Exactly my thought. I guess it might be due to thunderbolt...

neko girl
Jun 16, 2011, 01:55 PM
Does that mean Apple is admitting the Mac App Store delivery of Lion is "incconvenient"?

Hmm.

sclawis300
Jun 16, 2011, 01:56 PM
I don't. Download update from the store - done. Now people who need a new computer have to buy one knowing that new stuff is coming out but some just cannot wait (not me, thankfully). Probably a bad comparison but its kind of saying hey, we are not selling you the new and improved drug we have that really will cure you because we need to wait for the real new cool packaging...

Analogy fail. Sorry I could not resist.

Lammergeier
Jun 16, 2011, 01:57 PM
but instead seems focused on offering customers the latest and greatest software experience right out of the box and removing any inconvenience associated with upgrading.

Give me a break.
Leopard users have to go through the pointless task of downloading a redundant OS just to get to Lion. Apple are not set on 'removing inconvenience'

OllyW
Jun 16, 2011, 01:58 PM
Ah, this is true.

Am I correct in assuming you can simply use the SL install disc with the upcoming Macs (that are preloaded with Lion) ?

It depends if the correct drivers for the new hardware are included with Snow Leopard. There have been quite a few hardware updates released just after the launch a new version of OS X where it was impossible to install the previous version because of the lack of hardware support.

iindigo
Jun 16, 2011, 01:59 PM
Not sure why everyone is conviced that the first release of 10.7 is going to be terrible. Not only have I used every initial release of OS X since 10.0 (yes, I was an early adopter - dropped OS 9 like a bad habit) and had no problems with any of them, but I've also been running the developer releases of 10.7 since the first developer preview and have encountered only a couple of major bugs (both of which are fixed in the current build).

I'm glad Apple is pushing for the quick adoption of Lion. It means developers can actually take advantage of what it has to offer in their apps without worrying about obnoxiously large crowds of people lagging behind on older versions.

nagromme
Jun 16, 2011, 02:00 PM
Some people wonít do the upgrade. MANY people would be inconvenienced by it (itís still a big download, and itís learning 2 slightly different OSís for new Mac users). If the delay isnít all that long, then this makes sense. Apple and its users are best served by having the latest OS in the most painless way.

Obviously, itís not worth TOO much delay though.

sclawis300
Jun 16, 2011, 02:00 PM
It depends if the correct drivers for the new hardware are included with Snow Leopard. There have been quite a few hardware updates released just after the launch a new version of OS X where it was impossible to install the previous version because of lack of hardware support.

Do you think this would make it impossible to recover a HD from time machine if the crashed computer was running Leopard and the new computer is running Lion?

42streetsdown
Jun 16, 2011, 02:01 PM
Silly question, but will the Expose and Widget buttons still work on the keyboard when Lion is released?

Yep

bbeagle
Jun 16, 2011, 02:02 PM
Not sure why everyone is conviced that the first release of 10.7 is going to be terrible.

Because most people go to the knee-jerk reaction that a .0 update is full of bugs.

But Lion is NOT a .0 update - it's a .7 update! Most of the OS will be fine - it's been bug-tested for 10 years. What might be a little buggy are the new features. But nothing will be a show-stopper, like a typical .0 release.

gri
Jun 16, 2011, 02:03 PM
A bit rubbish to force 10.7.0 on to users when Snow Leopards so refined now.

I guess they need people to run it for iCloud to work as advertized...

OllyW
Jun 16, 2011, 02:03 PM
Do you think this would make it impossible to recover a HD from time machine if the crashed computer was running Leopard and the new computer is running Lion?

You should still be able to transfer your information from the Time Machine backup using the Migration Assistant.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.6/en/27921.html

BJ.SoundWave360
Jun 16, 2011, 02:03 PM
This is why I love Apple. Many companies would not do this. it's also great for customers, not having to upgrade a brand new machine right away.

Bravo Apple!

42streetsdown
Jun 16, 2011, 02:07 PM
It depends if the correct drivers for the new hardware are included with Snow Leopard. There have been quite a few hardware updates released just after the launch a new version of OS X where it was impossible to install the previous version because of the lack of hardware support.

I would think that that the hardware would be very similar to the hardware of the current MBPs and iMacs

wikus
Jun 16, 2011, 02:09 PM
Because most people go to the knee-jerk reaction that a .0 update is full of bugs.

But Lion is NOT a .0 update - it's a .7 update! Most of the OS will be fine - it's been bug-tested for 10 years. What might be a little buggy are the new features. But nothing will be a show-stopper, like a typical .0 release.

Completely FALSE.

OS X 10.6 had some major issues copying files within the finder between devices. Thats just one example of a '10 year old bug-tested' feature of OS X that had a major flaw.

spotlight07
Jun 16, 2011, 02:11 PM
A bit rubbish to force 10.7.0 on to users when Snow Leopards so refined now.

I think a multi-gigabyte download is a lot to ask of new users. I do hope they'll continue to sell SL though so that if Lion is buggy you can downgrade. Until White Lion comes out...

fattire357
Jun 16, 2011, 02:16 PM
The developer previews of Lion has so far been fairly buggy - although many will be fixed before public release it is crazy to think that 10.7.0 will be as bug-free as 10.6.7. Theres no way when they are changing the OS this fast that everything can be fixed.

Westacular
Jun 16, 2011, 02:16 PM
Will it be possible to revert to OS 10.6 with my current install disc if I purchase a macbook pro next month with Lion?
No, Macs can't run older versions of the OS than what they shipped with.

Expanding on the above:

Even if you bought a MacBook Pro today, you could not reinstall 10.6 on it using your older install disc. You'd need to use the disc included in it of 10.6.x (I can't remember the number -- whatever was current at the time they came out) that includes the newer drivers the machine needs to run. Any Snow Leopard install discs that contain versions newer than 10.6.x should work, though.

If you bought a MBP a week after Lion's release, and it's running Lion out of the box, it's recovery discs (or recovery partition, if they switch to that) will also contain Lion. If you desperately wanted to revert to 10.6, and assuming there's no changes to the MBP hardware between now and then (which there won't be, trust me), then your best bet would be to get ahold of the recovery discs that would have been included with it before Lion's release. (e.g., borrow them from a friend who bought a MBP between February and now).

Or, just buy the MBP now; it will be running SL, and contain those discs, but it will also come with a free upgrade to Lion when it's released. That's the most hassle-free way to hedge your bets.

Any new hardware released on/after Lion's release will never run Snow Leopard, because there will never be a version of Snow Leopard that includes all of the drivers they need to run. That could be the real reason Apple might be holding off on the Air and mini releases (assuming the rumour of this article is true): it saves them the trouble of having to add and test any new GPU, motherboard, or Thunderbolt drivers these machines might require to both Snow Leopard and Lion.

BenRoethig
Jun 16, 2011, 02:16 PM
Makes sense. Lion will be there in between three and six weeks.

macbook123
Jun 16, 2011, 02:17 PM
****.

Mr Fusion
Jun 16, 2011, 02:17 PM
Thank you Apple for once again making a decision for me, because I'm obviously too "stoopid" to make my own.

:rolleyes:

For f$&k sake, all I want is a Sandy Bridge MacBook Air. We know they're in production. We know they will arrive sooner or later. ENOUGH!!! Just release it so I can give you my f&$king money already!!!

:mad:

Thunderhawks
Jun 16, 2011, 02:19 PM
Duh! I'm intentionally holding off on any new Mac hardware til Lion is out.

Double DUH:-)

Also waiting to buy an iMac LOADED and as an older generation geezer, never a problem to wait for stuff!

Jimmy James
Jun 16, 2011, 02:19 PM
People are buying the existing product without Lion anyway. So not only are they not getting Lion, they're getting old [new] hardware as well. Shame.

charlituna
Jun 16, 2011, 02:19 PM
No wonder, Apple has no rush and is logical that they want to integrate their latest OS with their latest hardware.

While this is true, I suspect the claims are bogus. Someone likely got a leak about new hardware in July and assumed it was being delayed just to launch with Lion. When in truth perhaps it was always set for July and they set the software release to go with it.

Jeaz
Jun 16, 2011, 02:19 PM
Really, took you to know to figure that out? I thought it was rather obvious, I mean, shipping new models of Macs to stores with an OS replaced in a few weeks, making any stock a "burden" and a hassle for customers and so on. Surprised there's even been this much talk before.

morespce54
Jun 16, 2011, 02:20 PM
Duh! I'm intentionally holding off on any new Mac hardware til Lion is out.

I hope you won't have to wait until the *end* of July... ;)

Chupa Chupa
Jun 16, 2011, 02:21 PM
Because most people go to the knee-jerk reaction that a .0 update is full of bugs.

But Lion is NOT a .0 update - it's a .7 update! Most of the OS will be fine - it's been bug-tested for 10 years. What might be a little buggy are the new features. But nothing will be a show-stopper, like a typical .0 release.

I'm not quite sure how you say this with a straight face (maybe your not since I can't see you). It's silly to say 10.7 has been bug tested for 10 years when it shares little with OS X 10.0 which well predates the Intel and 64-bit OS era. There is more brand new than old in 10.7.

And with no PPC support in 10.7 I suspect it will put up a hurdle for less savvy users -- people like my mom who still uses Quicken for Mac and Word 04. I think Apple is being presumptuous pre-installing 10.7 from the start. The killer is that people who buy these machines won't be able to install 10.6 even if they wanted to.

I just hope they put up big disclosures in the stores that their PPC-only s/w isn't going to work anymore after they install 10.7 or buy a machine w/ 10.7 pre-installed.

Westacular
Jun 16, 2011, 02:21 PM
I would think that that the hardware would be very similar to the hardware of the current MBPs and iMacs

Similar, but not the same. It might be possible to use some Hackitosh-esque tricks to get Snow Leopard to run on them, but I doubt it would work on its own. (A SL install disc from 2009 DEFINITELY would not work.)

42streetsdown
Jun 16, 2011, 02:21 PM
Expanding on the above:

Even if you bought a MacBook Pro today, you could not reinstall 10.6 on it using your older install disc. You'd need to use the disc included in it of 10.6.x (I can't remember the number -- whatever was current at the time they came out) that includes the newer drivers the machine needs to run. Any Snow Leopard install discs that contain versions newer than 10.6.x should work, though.

If you bought a MBP a week after Lion's release, and it's running Lion out of the box, it's recovery discs (or recovery partition, if they switch to that) will also contain Lion. If you desperately wanted to revert to 10.6, and assuming there's no changes to the MBP hardware between now and then (which there won't be, trust me), then your best bet would be to get ahold of the recovery discs that would have been included with it before Lion's release. (e.g., borrow them from a friend who bought a MBP between February and now).

Or, just buy the MBP now; it will be running SL, and contain those discs, but it will also come with a free upgrade to Lion when it's released. That's the most hassle-free way to hedge your bets.

Any new hardware released on/after Lion's release will never run Snow Leopard, because there will never be a version of Snow Leopard that includes all of the drivers they need to run. That could be the real reason Apple might be holding off on the Air and mini releases (assuming the rumour of this article is true): it saves them the trouble of having to add and test any new GPU, motherboard, or Thunderbolt drivers these machines might require to both Snow Leopard and Lion.

Why would the MacBook Air drivers have to be new? All the new hardware will come from the exact same product line as the current MacBook Pro and iMac

notjustjay
Jun 16, 2011, 02:27 PM
"offering customers the latest and greatest software experience"

Really?

Why they do not fix then the bugs that plague Mac OS X? And why do they keep on charging for new versions of something that is basically new beta versions of Mac OS X 10.0? It seems that Apple is too busy with iOS instead.

You're right, it's all a big scam. They leave those bugs in on purpose just to annoy you and extract more money from you.

It has nothing to do with software development and engineering being a difficult and complex discipline. All those developers with their 6-figure salaries don't deserve nearly half of that money since all they do is sit around goofing off and playing video games all day. It's not like they put in long hours of stressful overtime or anything.

silentnite
Jun 16, 2011, 02:27 PM
I've been waiting patiently for a souped up Mac mini. Hoping I won't have to wait until end of summer.

wikus
Jun 16, 2011, 02:28 PM
Expanding on the above:

Even if you bought a MacBook Pro today, you could not reinstall 10.6 on it using your older install disc. You'd need to use the disc included in it of 10.6.x (I can't remember the number -- whatever was current at the time they came out) that includes the newer drivers the machine needs to run. Any Snow Leopard install discs that contain versions newer than 10.6.x should work, though.

If you bought a MBP a week after Lion's release, and it's running Lion out of the box, it's recovery discs (or recovery partition, if they switch to that) will also contain Lion. If you desperately wanted to revert to 10.6, and assuming there's no changes to the MBP hardware between now and then (which there won't be, trust me), then your best bet would be to get ahold of the recovery discs that would have been included with it before Lion's release. (e.g., borrow them from a friend who bought a MBP between February and now).

Or, just buy the MBP now; it will be running SL, and contain those discs, but it will also come with a free upgrade to Lion when it's released. That's the most hassle-free way to hedge your bets.

Any new hardware released on/after Lion's release will never run Snow Leopard, because there will never be a version of Snow Leopard that includes all of the drivers they need to run. That could be the real reason Apple might be holding off on the Air and mini releases (assuming the rumour of this article is true): it saves them the trouble of having to add and test any new GPU, motherboard, or Thunderbolt drivers these machines might require to both Snow Leopard and Lion.

Thank you.

I've never installed OS X and used it with .0 release, I always wait a month or two for .1 or .2 releases to get all the bugs fixed.

Thing is, I kinda need a laptop right now, I'm in a web development program at school and would benefit from being able to do my work on it at school rather than using the schools computers as all settings and preferences are whiped whenever i log out.

I'm thinking of buying a macbook pro now with Snow Leopard as it runs great for me on my mac pro at home... (which will be sold when macbook pro comes in).

Any further suggestions?

Thunderhawks
Jun 16, 2011, 02:33 PM
I feel like I'm always "waiting" for the next best thing.
I definitely passed on the iPad 2 because I want the Retina Display with the next gen rumored for early 2012.
I passed on the i4 on Verizon because it was a 6 month old phone so I'll definitely be getting the i4s/i5 (whatever they call it).
And now I wondr about the MBP because of the rumored new design it's supposed to have next year.

Ahh if I just knew I would either buy/wait.

If you continue like that you have a good chance to pass without ever buying anything.

Not a bad thought, saves $$$

gri
Jun 16, 2011, 02:34 PM
So if you buy a machine with Lion installed...does it register as purchasing Lion on your iTunes account?

Cause if not this is a little lame as with the up-to-date program you would get the upgrade for free which I assume would work on all your machines as it would be like buying it from the Mac App Store.

Actually a good question! If you buy an expensive hardware you are kind of punished in that case...

Xtremehkr
Jun 16, 2011, 02:35 PM
I can't wait for Apple to release this update. It looks like the track pad that I bought to accompany my iMac is finally going to get more use as OSX and hand gestures to control the interface become more integrated.

I would also like to know more about the installation process since it is through the App Store.

42streetsdown
Jun 16, 2011, 02:36 PM
Thank you.

I've never installed OS X and used it with .0 release, I always wait a month or two for .1 or .2 releases to get all the bugs fixed.

Thing is, I kinda need a laptop right now, I'm in a web development program at school and would benefit from being able to do my work on it at school rather than using the schools computers as all settings and preferences are whiped whenever i log out.

I'm thinking of buying a macbook pro now with Snow Leopard as it runs great for me on my mac pro at home... (which will be sold when macbook pro comes in).

Any further suggestions?

Buying a MBP now is not a problem. It's currently mid-cycle. It's buying Airs, minis and Mac Pros that's the problem.

Taz Mangus
Jun 16, 2011, 02:36 PM
"offering customers the latest and greatest software experience"

Really?

Why they do not fix then the bugs that plague Mac OS X? And why do they keep on charging for new versions of something that is basically new beta versions of Mac OS X 10.0? It seems that Apple is too busy with iOS instead.

Does not surprise me that someone would start posting this non-sense again. If you think posting this same thing on several Apple-centric forums will make it true you are sadly mistaken.

Eidorian
Jun 16, 2011, 02:38 PM
ThunderBolt, Sandy Bridge, Radeon HD 6000, and Intel HD 3000 drivers already exist under Snow Leopard. If there is a way to revert, I plan on at least being in that thread.

What new hardware could Apple release that would prevent reversion using imaging or just breaking the hardware test in the installer?

akatsuki
Jun 16, 2011, 02:40 PM
I'd rather just buy one today and upgrade - I've been holding out for this bump for a while and would like to get on with it.

puckhead193
Jun 16, 2011, 02:42 PM
argh...all i can say is:
your killing me apple (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc7t_ET6SNQ) :D

why not have a pre-order for the new shiny mac pros :D

gri
Jun 16, 2011, 02:46 PM
Analogy fail. Sorry I could not resist.

I admit freely that it is not the best analogy but it comes out of my realm...

blindzero
Jun 16, 2011, 02:55 PM
The Cinema Displays need an OS?????

Probably waiting to maximize the effect of Touchscreens and/or Resolution Independence.

cms2
Jun 16, 2011, 02:56 PM
this makes sense to me. Seems like Lion's announcement lacked some of Apple's usual secrecy and suspense buildup; they sent out cards with a picture of a lion on them, and they basically released an advance outline of everything that would be covered at WWDC... very un-apple.

So now they can announce a bunch of shiny new macs, which probably excites the casual user quite a bit more than a new OS, in conjunction, and work up some hype.

Just my two cents. :)

sclawis300
Jun 16, 2011, 02:57 PM
I admit freely that it is not the best analogy but it comes out of my realm...

You could have at least said something like, "it is like switching from a pill to a gel tab which allows for faster delivery of the medicine."

HiRez
Jun 16, 2011, 02:57 PM
This completely sucks. I really need a new Air ASAP and I'm certainly not going to be buying one of the obsolete ones at this point. Ugh. Hurry up, Lion devs.

NinjaHERO
Jun 16, 2011, 02:57 PM
I can understand that. Most people hate having to upgrade stuff.


And if its your first mac, it would suck to spend a month getting use to the OS only to have it updated to something that works a bit different.

HiRez
Jun 16, 2011, 03:00 PM
It's a fact that any .0 software release, especially Apple's, is going to be full of bugs, so this doesn't sound like a very good idea.

Yep, agreed. I'd rather use a stable Snow Leopard on my new hardware than a buggy 10.7.0 Lion.

Bye Bye Baby
Jun 16, 2011, 03:03 PM
Waiting for a new MB Air.

Waiting for Lion

Waiting for a new iPad (HD)

Waiting, waiting waiting....

But what am I doing now?

And what will I do when I get them.

Probably what I am doing now

Waiting

juicedropsdeuce
Jun 16, 2011, 03:05 PM
Some people wonít do the upgrade. MANY people would be inconvenienced by it (itís still a big download, and itís learning 2 slightly different OSís for new Mac users). If the delay isnít all that long, then this makes sense. Apple and its users are best served by having the latest OS in the most painless way.

Obviously, itís not worth TOO much delay though.

If they won't bother to upgrade, what makes you think they read rumor sites and will wait for the new models?? No, they'll just get an outdated computer and an outdated OS.

Sad, really sad. :mad:

HiRez
Jun 16, 2011, 03:07 PM
One good bit here is that, with billions of dollars in hardware at stake, there should be a ton of pressure on the software guys to get Lion done and out the door ASAP. Of course...that could easily mean more bugs slip through the cracks, or features that get held out until a later update.

skellener
Jun 16, 2011, 03:10 PM
Thunderbolt-equipped Mac minis and LED Cinema Displays....[/url]Wonder if we'll see any Thunderbolt-equipped TimeCapsule/Airport Express hardware??? :)

Wild-Bill
Jun 16, 2011, 03:11 PM
In other news, Apple's Mac Pro design team has not been seen in its offices since some time last year.

:eek:









:p

Anonymous Freak
Jun 16, 2011, 03:13 PM
Dangit! I've been waiting for a quad-core Mac Mini server. My server is on its last legs, and I *REALLY* want to upgrade, but not until it's quad-core...

wikus
Jun 16, 2011, 03:14 PM
In other news, Apple's Mac Pro design team has not been seen in its offices since some time last year.

:eek:









:p

LOL, so true.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 16, 2011, 03:15 PM
Wasn't Vista the world wide alpha and beta release of Windows 7? :p
.

I take it you never used 10.5?

PorterRocks
Jun 16, 2011, 03:15 PM
Wonder if we'll see any Thunderbolt-equipped TimeCapsule/Airport Express hardware??? :)

Oh, I certainly hope so! Thunderbolt is going to be kick-ass once peripherals become available. :apple:

G4DP
Jun 16, 2011, 03:29 PM
Because most people go to the knee-jerk reaction that a .0 update is full of bugs.

But Lion is NOT a .0 update - it's a .7 update! Most of the OS will be fine - it's been bug-tested for 10 years. What might be a little buggy are the new features. But nothing will be a show-stopper, like a typical .0 release.

So you never used 10.5.0 then or 10.6.0? both had major flaws. Leopard was terrible until 10.5.3. As for 10.6.0, I would call an upgrade that erases a users hard drive a minor bug, wouldn't you?

Slurpy2k8
Jun 16, 2011, 03:33 PM
I don't. Download update from the store - done. Now people who need a new computer have to buy one knowing that new stuff is coming out but some just cannot wait (not me, thankfully). Probably a bad comparison but its kind of saying hey, we are not selling you the new and improved drug we have that really will cure you because we need to wait for the real new cool packaging...

Apple wants as many people to be don Lion as possible. What percentage of people do you think will take the trouble to download Lion on their new machines? Maybe half? Shipping them with Lion guarantees 100% usage rate on those machines.

YMark
Jun 16, 2011, 03:34 PM
This is why I love Apple. Many companies would not do this. it's also great for customers, not having to upgrade a brand new machine right away.

"Many companies" can't (don't) control the release of both software and hardware. Apple is in a unique position that allows them to do this.

*LTD*
Jun 16, 2011, 03:38 PM
So you never used 10.5.0 then or 10.6.0? both had major flaws. Leopard was terrible until 10.5.3. As for 10.6.0, I would call an upgrade that erases a users hard drive a minor bug, wouldn't you?

It was never that bad for the majority of users. The harder you dig, the less you'll find. There wasn't a massive movement to downgrade to the previous OS. With Vista, however, companies were actually offering to help users downgrade to XP. It was a total disaster.

Apple just went on selling more and more Macs each quarter. No change.

Vista was in a class by itself.

mgsarch
Jun 16, 2011, 03:38 PM
Duh! I'm intentionally holding off on any new Mac hardware til Lion is out.

heh, The last thing I want on my brand new MBA is 10.7.0, I'll stick with what's stable. If I buy a machine with Lion on it the first thing I do will be install Snow Leopard. "Duh!"

Apple, this news is hogwash. :mad:

NightSun
Jun 16, 2011, 03:40 PM
Don't take as an offense, but I'm amazed that how many people are constantly complaining here about this and that, when it comes to the release of Lion (and now hardware, too). If Apple is shipping the new Macs with Lion straight away then it is objected that hey, it is gonna be full of bugs and how difficult could be to revert to SL, and can't wait 1 month more, but in case they were dispatched without Lion right now, the complain would be about again downloading times and the 'how will I have a copy of Lion to install on all of my machines' question. With such an attitude of course one will never be satisfied at all.

I would say, just take it easy.

HiRez
Jun 16, 2011, 03:40 PM
Apple wants as many people to be don Lion as possible. What percentage of people do you think will take the trouble to download Lion on their new machines? Maybe half? Shipping them with Lion guarantees 100% usage rate on those machines.

Yeah, it makes sense from Apple's standpoint. And maybe benefits users when taken as a whole (you're going to get better support with the latest OS). Just sucks for those of us who have been waiting for new hardware and don't mind the upgrade process.

*LTD*
Jun 16, 2011, 03:41 PM
The sense of entitlement is strong in this thread.

PraisiX-windows
Jun 16, 2011, 03:43 PM
One good bit here is that, with billions of dollars in hardware at stake, there should be a ton of pressure on the software guys to get Lion done and out the door ASAP. Of course...that could easily mean more bugs slip through the cracks, or features that get held out until a later update.

It's the microsoft way .. :P
With the way they used to be buggy *******-systems when they were released.

I'm sure it'll be alright though, just think it's unfair of them to hold up on the refreshes, albeit seen from their pov this is probably their last chance to sell off their old hardware at full price. - If supplies of a certain item reaches nell I'm sure they'll upgrade it before Lion, it's unlikely to happen though I'd say.

ericmooreart
Jun 16, 2011, 03:44 PM
Daddy wants a new Mac Mini. So ummm hurry it up please

HiRez
Jun 16, 2011, 03:47 PM
I'm sure it'll be alright though, just think it's unfair of them to hold up on the refreshes, albeit seen from their pov this is probably their last chance to sell off their old hardware at full price. - If supplies of a certain item reaches nell I'm sure they'll upgrade it before Lion, it's unlikely to happen though I'd say.

Another benefit here may be less inventory problems with new hardware as they will have time to get production up and have a cache ready for launch. So, while you might need to wait another 4 weeks to order, maybe you won't need to wait 2-6 weeks for your order to process either. They could ship a lot on Day 1, potentially. The new Airs are going to be very popular.

gri
Jun 16, 2011, 03:47 PM
Apple wants as many people to be don Lion as possible. What percentage of people do you think will take the trouble to download Lion on their new machines? Maybe half? Shipping them with Lion guarantees 100% usage rate on those machines.

But if they already provide them with a free upgrade to Lion. They could make it through software update or send them an e-mail with a simple link download and install here... Unless you are sitting still in 20112 on dial up it shouldn't be a big issue any more. After all they want the users to buy and download music, movies and apps as well so what is the big difference.

Wild-Bill
Jun 16, 2011, 03:49 PM
I don't care what operating system comes loaded on the new Macbook Airs....... so long as Apple reinstates the wrongfully omitted backlit-keyboard. ;)

OllyW
Jun 16, 2011, 03:51 PM
So you never used 10.5.0 then or 10.6.0? both had major flaws. Leopard was terrible until 10.5.3. As for 10.6.0, I would call an upgrade that erases a users hard drive a minor bug, wouldn't you?

I didn't have any major problems with those two but 10.4.0 was a nightmare for me. I'll be getting Lion on day one but I'll have my cloned backup at the ready just in case it all goes wrong again.

mgsarch
Jun 16, 2011, 03:53 PM
Don't take as an offense, but I'm amazed that how many people are constantly complaining here about this and that, when it comes to the release of Lion (and now hardware, too). If Apple is shipping the new Macs with Lion straight away then it is objected that hey, it is gonna be full of bugs and how difficult could be to revert to SL, and can't wait 1 month more, but in case they were dispatched without Lion right now, the complain would be about again downloading times and the 'how will I have a copy of Lion to install on all of my machines' question. With such an attitude of course one will never be satisfied at all.

I would say, just take it easy.

So, we voice our thoughts regarding the thread's topic, you then comment on our complaining and never-satisfied attitudes. Disregarding your arrogance, this is a forum for discussing rumors, sir, what did you expect?

SamuraiArtGuy
Jun 16, 2011, 04:02 PM
...Apple is holding back on releasing updated Mac models in order to wait for work on OS X Lion to be completed. Apple is reportedly "so pumped up" about Lion that it wants to ship the new machines with Lion preinstalled rather than forcing users to upgrade on their own once the new operating system is released next month.

Awesome. That means I, and the rest of us Creative Pros, can look forward to a Mac Pro update sometime in 2012. Yes, that was sarcasm.

IOS devices might be appealing little slabs of electric crack , some of have to CREATE content rather than consume it. That takes a bit more muscle than a mini and more precision than a touch interface. What about us, Steve?

Just grumping, will likely be downsizing to an iMac from a tower when I get that Adobe CS5 file from a vendor or client that I can't open in CS3....

B4NZ41 :eek:

oiuh151
Jun 16, 2011, 04:04 PM
Awesome. That means I, and the rest of us Creative Pros, can look forward to a Mac Pro update sometime in 2012. Yes, that was sarcasm.

IOS devices might be appealing little slabs of electric crack , some of have to CREATE content rather than consume it. That takes a bit more muscle than a mini and more precision than a touch interface. What about us, Steve?

Just grumping, will likely be downsizing to an iMac from a tower when I get that Adobe CS5 file from a vendor or client that I can't open in CS3....

B4NZ41 :eek:

Intel's Sandy Bridge processors slated for the Mac Pro won't be out until Q4 2011 anyway.

ericmooreart
Jun 16, 2011, 04:11 PM
Just had a thought. If Apple is holding off then wouldn't the time to refresh life for the Lion equipped macs be much shorter?

Yeshto
Jun 16, 2011, 04:17 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I am on the same situation!!

gorgeousninja
Jun 16, 2011, 04:28 PM
If I buy a MacBook Pro, lets say one week after Lion gets released, Will it ship with Lion, or will it ship with Snow Leopard, and then I have to upgrade to Lion?

How about reading the article, thinking, and getting back to us?
Or alternatively, at the time of purchase checking what OS it's running, and asking the salesperson.

iDemiurge
Jun 16, 2011, 04:29 PM
And why do we have to wait for Lion to get a new display?

I know there's no technical reason for this. I only said that it's nice to hear rumors about a Thunderbold-equipped Cinema Display. Only after Lion is sure better than never.

Stok3
Jun 16, 2011, 04:29 PM
Vista was perfect for me, never had any problems.
You should have tried original OS X, that was so buggy and slow :(
It couldnt even burn disks at first. Infact the first 3 or so major releases of OS X were quite bad. Slow and buggy.

well Panther was actually good. :D

but yeah i agree 10.0 -10.2 was mostly crap

Eidorian
Jun 16, 2011, 04:38 PM
Vista was perfect for me, never had any problems.
You should have tried original OS X, that was so buggy and slow :(
It couldnt even burn disks at first. Infact the first 3 or so major releases of OS X were quite bad. Slow and buggy.I recall actually liking Vista somewhat during the Beta stage. (Believe me I posted about it.) I fell in love with Windows Media Center that was the only redeeming feature. After using Windows 7, I cannot go back to Vista. I am not really sure why I stopped liking Vista after the Beta stage.

well Panther was actually good. :D

but yeah i agree 10.0 -10.2 was mostly crap10.2 was really the first usable copy of OS X. Then again people would rather forget that. I did not find OS X really enjoyable until 10.3 though. Tiger was my prime.

fmillion
Jun 16, 2011, 04:46 PM
I've been excited about the MBA refresh for a while now and have been holding off buying for that very reason. Reading this news however adds a concern to my plate:

I run some old PPC apps and thus depend heavily on Rosetta. (Some of them will never be available in x86 - defunct companies, lost source code, etc). We all know by now that Lion is dropping Rosetta completely. And, we also know that historically, it's pretty hard to impossible to get machines to boot OS'es older than the ones that were current at the time of original release.

There would be no technical reason the new machine couldn't do Rosetta, that's just Apple dropping it from the OS, trying to force us to "move on". In an ideal world, that'd be great, but when old apps are still around that need to be used, it's a make or break decision.

So..

If this is the case, do we have any clue if I'll be able to run SL on a new machine? If not I might have to back down and just grab a refurbed C2Duo model rather than springing for the new Sandy Bridge.....

I suppose in theory someone could patch Rosetta to make it work on Lion, but I haven't heard anything about such a possibility yet...

FM

bearcatrp
Jun 16, 2011, 04:50 PM
This bites. I don't plan on upgrading to lion for awhile, at least until the bugs get worked out. SL is just fine. If final cut X is lion only, I'll be passing on this as well as many others. How about letting the consumer decide, apple! This is apple's BS of control. Looks like my current mini will be my last apple product. You fanboys can keep stroking apple's business model, with your hands tide.

Mak47
Jun 16, 2011, 05:00 PM
This makes perfect sense. Did we all see the article the other day about how 50% of iPhone users never synch their device?

What percentage of customers are going to go to the Mac App Store to download a new OS upgrade? My guess is even lower. Releasing these machines without Lion installed will only stand to slow the adoption rate of the new OS.

This is a smart move for Apple, and most Apple customers. Sure, we all know what to do and are on the lookout for all of these things, but the average user isn't.

*LTD*
Jun 16, 2011, 05:01 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

This bites. I don't plan on upgrading to lion for awhile, at least until the bugs get worked out. SL is just fine. If final cut X is lion only, I'll be passing on this as well as many others. How about letting the consumer decide, apple! This is apple's BS of control. Looks like my current mini will be my last apple product. You fanboys can keep stroking apple's business model, with your hands tide.

I find it interesting how a few on Apple fan sites complain and moan about things like this, while the market at large is perfectly fine with this. If consumers do in fact vote with their wallets, as they have been, then there's no actual problem here. It's all manufactured by the lovable geek contingent on Apple fan sites.

dawnrazor
Jun 16, 2011, 05:12 PM
AThis makes complete and utter sense, get a whole bunch of new hardware out there with Lion on it. Launch it all around the same time, it'll be a massive big screw you to the competition and it's shows huge confidence in Lion as well.

G4DP
Jun 16, 2011, 05:12 PM
I didn't have any major problems with those two but 10.4.0 was a nightmare for me. I'll be getting Lion on day one but I'll have my cloned backup at the ready just in case it all goes wrong again.

10.4 was brilliant for me, didn't ever get a problem. Thankfully neither of the machines in our house need replacing anytime soon, so I can afford to wait for a few months.

OllyW
Jun 16, 2011, 05:18 PM
10.4 was brilliant for me...

It was for me too once I'd removed the USB 2.0 PCI card from my PowerMac G4 which had worked flawlessly with Jaguar & Panther but failed miserably with Tiger. :)

macnisse
Jun 16, 2011, 05:31 PM
Additional waiting = arghhhh...
However "offering customers the latest and greatest software experience right out of the box and removing any inconvenience associated with upgrading" = makes sort of sense :rolleyes:

NAG
Jun 16, 2011, 05:37 PM
I'm still a bit leery from the whole "iPhone launch, MobileMe launch, new iOS launch" debacle.

MartiNZ
Jun 16, 2011, 05:37 PM
Yeah I think it makes total sense. But maybe that's because I'm looking forward to running Lion on the Air I already have, not waiting for a new one of those as well :D.

But this also gives them the opportunity to make the new hardware incapable of running anything before Lion, as we know they like to do with these things.

paradox00
Jun 16, 2011, 05:38 PM
This bites. I don't plan on upgrading to lion for awhile, at least until the bugs get worked out. SL is just fine. If final cut X is lion only, I'll be passing on this as well as many others. How about letting the consumer decide, apple! This is apple's BS of control. Looks like my current mini will be my last apple product. You fanboys can keep stroking apple's business model, with your hands tide.

What's the big deal? All macs produced after Lion launches will naturally ship with Lion, regardless of when they were last refreshed. So even if they released new macs now, they'd be shipping with Lion soon enough. It makes sense to ship with the latest version of the OS (can you imagine the complaints if they didn't?).

The number of people that wouldn't want the hassle of updating their mac two weeks after it was refreshed likely outnumber the people who purposely wish to avoid upgrading. I want a Mac Mini now, so I wish they were shipping now. I don't mind upgrading the OS, but I can understand why Apple wouldn't want to launch new products so close to the new OS launch.

FrizzleFryBen
Jun 16, 2011, 06:01 PM
can't wait for the mba!

I want them to wait as long as possible! I JUST bought 2 MBAs last month and I knew updated MBAs were coming. But we needed them at the office. It makes me feel better for buying when I did if an update doesn't come out a month later...That actually causes me fury! I do feel bad for the people who would kill for an update tho.

Stok3
Jun 16, 2011, 06:03 PM
10.4 was brilliant for me, didn't ever get a problem. Thankfully neither of the machines in our house need replacing anytime soon, so I can afford to wait for a few months.

I loved Tiger. It was so awesome and surprisingly stable from the get go. I remember how cool spotlight was when it was first released.

golgo1313
Jun 16, 2011, 06:22 PM
this news particularly sucks because i'm leaving my current job where i have a fellowship that i can buy a new mba with. leaving june 30th. ugh.

Dionysus2112
Jun 16, 2011, 06:22 PM
The platform of choice for Lion has been the Air, if you viewed all the demos at the keynote and if you look on Apples website most of the videos of Lion are on an Air.

So delaying the Air for Lion makes sense for Apple and the end user experiences.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 16, 2011, 06:39 PM
Wasn't Vista the world wide alpha and beta release of Windows 7? :p

LOL

So true.

kalsta
Jun 16, 2011, 07:25 PM
At least there shouldn't be shortages of the new Macs when they come out. You get the feeling the iPad 2 launch should have been held back a few weeks at least, but they were obviously desperate to get that out.

MrSmith
Jun 16, 2011, 07:38 PM
If I erase my HD first how will I get Lion on without installing SL first (which would partly negate the point of starting with a clean slate)?

historylover
Jun 16, 2011, 07:39 PM
I don't really understand why this is seen as a "good idea" for Apple. I won't buy the MBA until it's updated, but I'm getting antsy.

And, since Apple has a history of having issues with their first release of anything, it would be better for them to split it up. I think I would really appreciate having Snow Leopard on the updated MBA before installing Lion myself once the kinks from the .0 release are worked out. Once again, Apple is disappointing me, and if Windows wasn't so crappy, I would jump ship and go to them.

caspersoong
Jun 16, 2011, 07:43 PM
Yep. I think that this is a clever move. Especially for those in other countries who might have gotten a new Mac with Snow Leopard when Lion is already released.

osx11
Jun 16, 2011, 07:59 PM
Apple web store looks different. now has cinema display, time capsule, and airort extreme on front page. Coincidence? I don't think so.

heisetax
Jun 16, 2011, 08:03 PM
Steve Jobs wants to cut out anything old. He doesn't want any new Macs to be able to run 10.6 Snow Leopard. He wants those running 10.7 Lion to be higher than they really would be.

I know that I'll purchase OS 10.7 Lion the day it comes out. I'll install it on a separate partition & wait until I have the necessary programs that does not need Rosetta. If the past few system changes for me means anything , it will be months & maybe even a year before I change to OS 10.7 Lion. So I'll count a a OS 10.7 Lion User when really I'll still be an OS 10.5 or 10.6 User.

Yinmay
Jun 16, 2011, 08:19 PM
this news particularly sucks because i'm leaving my current job where i have a fellowship that i can buy a new mba with. leaving june 30th. ugh.Buy a MBP on the 29th.
Don't open it.
Exchange it when the new MBA are out.
Done.

MattInOz
Jun 16, 2011, 08:26 PM
What's the big deal? All macs produced after Lion launches will naturally ship with Lion, regardless of when they were last refreshed. So even if they released new macs now, they'd be shipping with Lion soon enough. It makes sense to ship with the latest version of the OS (can you imagine the complaints if they didn't?).

The number of people that wouldn't want the hassle of updating their mac two weeks after it was refreshed likely outnumber the people who purposely wish to avoid upgrading. I want a Mac Mini now, so I wish they were shipping now. I don't mind upgrading the OS, but I can understand why Apple wouldn't want to launch new products so close to the new OS launch.

Well any mac that gets a hardware update with or after Lion will only ever run Lion+. So for machines in productive environments* being able to pull the OS back to an office standard is important. Not many people would trust and big complex soft ware running on a new OS and work time pressures.

But if we are talking Airs and Mini's then not much of an Issue. iMac's, MBP's and MacPro's would be of real concern but they aren't due for a few months in to the Lion change.

*Yes people do real work on Macs

gramirez2012
Jun 16, 2011, 08:31 PM
I hope this doesn't mean the Time Capsule and AEBS are in that boat as well. I wish they would announce a firm date rather than just "July". :( I can't wait much longer for Time Capsule!

whitneydigital
Jun 16, 2011, 08:35 PM
Well any mac that gets a hardware update with or after Lion will only ever run Lion+. So for machines in productive environments* being able to pull the OS back to an office standard is important. Not many people would trust and big complex soft ware running on a new OS and work time pressures.


This is my concern as well. I'd buy a Sandybridge MacPro on the first day of availability because I could really use a speedy machine to replace my 2008 MP, but only if it can run Snow Leopard. If it can only run Lion, I'll have to wait until ALL of my essential production software is updated for Lion, which could be months. So if the new Mac Pro's do ship with Lion, it would be nice if they also included a SL disc for those of us who NEED to revert.

MattyO
Jun 16, 2011, 08:56 PM
At least there is finally news on the mini refresh. I was begining to think about just buying a refurb.
Now at least it looks plausible that one will be available in about a months time.

kazmac
Jun 16, 2011, 09:03 PM
but I'd prefer rigorous testing of the hardware to ensure better product being released at the outset rather than having the latest OS installed on the machine.

Besides are any of the major non Apple apps/peripheral drivers even compliant with Lion? Adobe, Office etc. (might be a silly thing to ask but...). I wouldn't want Lion on my machine until it was stable.

twoodcc
Jun 16, 2011, 09:19 PM
I guess I can understand, but I'd rather them go ahead and release the new macs

AidenShaw
Jun 16, 2011, 09:21 PM
I wouldn't want Lion on my machine until it was stable.

You mean 10.7.4, right?

Mufasa804
Jun 16, 2011, 09:29 PM
For those who want to downgrade to snow leopard? Why don't you just run it in a VM inside Lion?

MrSmith
Jun 16, 2011, 09:35 PM
You mean 10.7.4, right?
He should be considering a jump to SL about now.

fkhan3
Jun 16, 2011, 10:04 PM
heh, The last thing I want on my brand new MBA is 10.7.0, I'll stick with what's stable. If I buy a machine with Lion on it the first thing I do will be install Snow Leopard. "Duh!"

Apple, this news is hogwash. :mad:


Agree. I rather have something stable than run an OS that wont play nice with programs that I absolutely need.

maclaptop
Jun 16, 2011, 10:15 PM
The developer previews of Lion has so far been fairly buggy - although many will be fixed before public release it is crazy to think that 10.7.0 will be as bug-free as 10.6.7. Theres no way when they are changing the OS this fast that everything can be fixed.
I agree, it would be nice if Apple delivered a somewhat bug free OS. However being the influential company they are. They are rarely held accountable.

Having refined the art of pointing the finger and shirking responsibility for as much as possible it's oddly found acceptable by those who pay for the product.

So, no worries for those with patience, you can watch the rest be Apples beta testers.

Rocketman
Jun 16, 2011, 10:23 PM
If Apple is shipping the new Macs with Lion straight away then it is objected that hey, it is gonna be full of bugs and how difficult could be to revert to SL.

Buy a used, refurb, or dealer Mac?

Problem solved till 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 when it has almost arrived.

Rocketman

10.7.3 server mini :-)

POST WITHIN A POST . . . .

Apple has decided Lion 10.7.0 is suitable for system-wide deployment.

Question.

Are they stupid or not?

Data: #1 app store, #1 most profitable, #1 retailer on metrics, #1 international computer vendor. Are we there yet?

maclaptop
Jun 16, 2011, 10:32 PM
The one advantage of Apples choice to hold off on new hardware releases is the fact that more users will be testing Lion in the real world. Therefore any problems of significance will impact more users which in turn will increase pressure on Apple to fix it.

X5-452
Jun 16, 2011, 11:36 PM
This is probably gonna sound really lame, but I'm not surprised given the keyboard.

Since there are dedicated keys for Exposť / Dashboard, and those 2 applications are essentially replaced by Mission Control, then wouldn't they need to update the letterings on the keyboard to reflect that?? No sense shipping products with keys etched with nonfunctional / non relevant designs; and no sense shipping a product right now that has new emblems that aren't a part of the current OS.

ChrisNM
Jun 17, 2011, 12:15 AM
$29.99 to upgrade to Lion - Awesome! So much better than the $150+ that Microsoft charges.

And better yet, no Lion Home, Lion Professional, or Lion Ultimate. Just Lion.

For anyone who touts PC's are cheaper than Mac's, that may be true from a purely hardware perspective, but when you factor in the software - both the cost and the simplicity - Mac's are the real bargain!

marc11
Jun 17, 2011, 02:39 AM
So if you buy a machine with Lion installed...does it register as purchasing Lion on your iTunes account?

Cause if not this is a little lame as with the up-to-date program you would get the upgrade for free which I assume would work on all your machines as it would be like buying it from the Mac App Store.

Huh? Lame how? If you do not buy a new machine, then you would have paid $29.99 to upgrade one or more machines in your house right? So if you buy a new machine and it comes with Lion, then for some reason Apple should give you Lion for free for your old machines too? I have never seen so many people with hands out for other products like I do for Apple products....the Back to School beotching and moaning was mind blowing.

You would still pay the original $29.99 you would have to upgrade your older existing machines, so it is the same out of pocket money for your existing machines, regardless if you buy a new one with Lion or not. The only cavet is if you buy now and it comes with SL, you you Lion upgrade for free, but that doesn't mean the upgrade could be applied to every machine in your house as some sort of thank you gift.

marc11
Jun 17, 2011, 02:41 AM
And better yet, no Lion Home, Lion Professional, or Lion Ultimate. Just Lion.



lol how true. There is also not iWork "starter" edition either like what comes thrown into many Windows machines so they can tout it comes with "Office"...

CplBadboy
Jun 17, 2011, 04:04 AM
This is probably gonna sound really lame, but I'm not surprised given the keyboard.

Since there are dedicated keys for Exposť / Dashboard, and those 2 applications are essentially replaced by Mission Control, then wouldn't they need to update the letterings on the keyboard to reflect that?? No sense shipping products with keys etched with nonfunctional / non relevant designs; and no sense shipping a product right now that has new emblems that aren't a part of the current OS.

Spot on post and coupled with the software, this delay only makes sense if we all stand back and look at it. its only peoples want and hunger for new Apple products that the forums are awash with disappointment. It is only 4 or so weeks away and Im quite happy to wait for a new Air and Mac Pro and all those rumoured AE TC updates.

satkin2
Jun 17, 2011, 05:47 AM
This makes total sense, maybe not for folks like us, but we're hanging around on a tech forum.

I know Lion is coming and I'll know the day it launches. I'll know how to install it and update my OS. I understand the differences this will make for me.

However, the majority of people who walk into an Apple store won't know these things.

For example if my parents bought a Mac and didn't consult me post purchase, they would get it up and running and then provided it worked they wouldn't upgrade to Lion.
They probably wouldn't know it was available, if they did I doubt they'd know what impact a new OS could have for them.

So although it might be annoying for us who want to see the latest kit and would be comfrotable making the changes when the time comes, the majority of users wouldn't be. By delaying the release of new hardware, Apple is removing this hurdle for many users. It will also help their figures so that they can say X million people are already using Lion.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 17, 2011, 06:00 AM
You mean 10.7.4, right?

You mean 10.7.0.dp* which are very stable? ;)

nutjob
Jun 17, 2011, 07:03 AM
heh, The last thing I want on my brand new MBA is 10.7.0, I'll stick with what's stable. If I buy a machine with Lion on it the first thing I do will be install Snow Leopard. "Duh!"

Apple, this news is hogwash. :mad:

What news? It's a rumour.

nutjob
Jun 17, 2011, 07:05 AM
You mean 10.7.4, right?

I won't be installing it until at least 10.7.9, or possibly later.

Stella
Jun 17, 2011, 07:11 AM
$29.99 to upgrade to Lion - Awesome! So much better than the $150+ that Microsoft charges.


Microsoft's business model is different. ms sell windows to make a profit, Apple do not. They use their o/s to help sell their own hardware

Thomas2006
Jun 17, 2011, 09:22 AM
I'm glad Apple is pushing for the quick adoption of Lion. It means developers can actually take advantage of what it has to offer in their apps without worrying about obnoxiously large crowds of people lagging behind on older versions.
I am not liking all the "automatic" stuff that Steve was praising. I do not want my last document to open automatically. I do not want versioning of my documents that will have to be deleted. I do not want my documents automatically sent to the cloud and downloaded to every device. I definitely would prefer the new hardware with Snow Leopard so I can decide when I upgrade my OS, and more importantly, the software and hardware I am using.

In no way shape or form does waiting for Lion to be released have anything to do with making things "convenience" for consumers.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 09:35 AM
The sense of entitlement is strong in this thread.

Did you really say this? Wow... I think the pot and kettle are both rolling in their respective graves.

Cougarcat
Jun 17, 2011, 10:05 AM
This is probably gonna sound really lame, but I'm not surprised given the keyboard.

Since there are dedicated keys for Exposť / Dashboard, and those 2 applications are essentially replaced by Mission Control, then wouldn't they need to update the letterings on the keyboard to reflect that??

No. Dashboard is still there. The mission control icon is the same as the expose icon on the keyboard.

shurcooL
Jun 17, 2011, 10:18 AM
Wow, why are so many people hesitant about Lion?

Personally, I'm getting my first MacBook soon and I don't want any outdated OS like Snow Leopard. Lion all the way for me! :D

paradox00
Jun 17, 2011, 10:19 AM
I am not liking all the "automatic" stuff that Steve was praising. I do not want my last document to open automatically. I do not want versioning of my documents that will have to be deleted. I do not want my documents automatically sent to the cloud and downloaded to every device. I definitely would prefer the new hardware with Snow Leopard so I can decide when I upgrade my OS, and more importantly, the software and hardware I am using.

In no way shape or form does waiting for Lion to be released have anything to do with making things "convenience" for consumers.

Because you get a choice of OS when you walk into a store to buy a new PC right? Windows or mac, they ship with the latest OS. Suck it up.

CFreymarc
Jun 17, 2011, 10:24 AM
heh, The last thing I want on my brand new MBA is 10.7.0, I'll stick with what's stable. If I buy a machine with Lion on it the first thing I do will be install Snow Leopard. "Duh!"

Apple, this news is hogwash. :mad:

Live life on the wild side. Do you know that OS X has a command line. Living the live baby. Hey girl, I do command line -- yeah that makes me hot!

Ralf The Dog
Jun 17, 2011, 11:17 AM
It would take much longer if they released for SL. One of the most complex parts of designing new hardware is writing and testing the drivers. (if it does not need new drivers, it is not new hardware.)

DeltaXXY
Jun 17, 2011, 11:19 AM
Since Lion finally has TRIM support for SSD's, it sounds pretty logical to me that they will be shipping this with their new MBA's, right?

greenmeanie
Jun 17, 2011, 12:16 PM
Must be having problems with updating the machine LOL.

macguy2
Jun 17, 2011, 12:29 PM
Lots of things point to the possibility of a portable mac that looks like an iPad.
• OSX Lion has the capability of the iOS UI (user-interface) and more.
• The Mac Air is the physical proof that OSX can come in small package.
• If iCloud is the future of storage, personal computers will be simply interface devices that need no hard disks or lots of gigs of memory.
• Thunderbolt hints of a future single computer interface with external accessories: monitors, personal backup storage, and so on.
• Wireless, airprint, 3G, 4G, etc. also support the coming of a simple portable mac.

The portable mac will not come soon to replace the iPad just yet.

bearcatrp
Jun 17, 2011, 12:34 PM
What's the big deal? All macs produced after Lion launches will naturally ship with Lion, regardless of when they were last refreshed. So even if they released new macs now, they'd be shipping with Lion soon enough. It makes sense to ship with the latest version of the OS (can you imagine the complaints if they didn't?).

The number of people that wouldn't want the hassle of updating their mac two weeks after it was refreshed likely outnumber the people who purposely wish to avoid upgrading. I want a Mac Mini now, so I wish they were shipping now. I don't mind upgrading the OS, but I can understand why Apple wouldn't want to launch new products so close to the new OS launch.

If any system comes out with a particular version, you cannot go back to an earlier version. So if your apps are not lion compatible, your screwed until the software is updated. For those with apps who make a living from their software, they wont be able to get a faster machine.

drewyboy
Jun 17, 2011, 12:47 PM
Since Lion finally has TRIM support for SSD's, it sounds pretty logical to me that they will be shipping this with their new MBA's, right?

TRIM support is 1 of the most over rated issues. Sandforce controller = problem solved. As for the MBA, testing that I've seen shows no real TRIM issues. I am more than willing to stand corrected, but I'm just saying, that's at least what I've seen.

kudukudu
Jun 17, 2011, 02:31 PM
I can't imagine that anyone who needs a machine to do anything involved with making money would want a new untested OS running on it. Anyone in this boat will wait until 10.7.3 or 10.7.4 (unless they are risk tolerant newbies who just haven't had the misfortune of running a newly minted OS before. I know of a couple of people who fall into this camp who cursed apple after they ran into problems getting some of their third party software to run correctly).

And I can't imagine anyone would want to take the performance hit of running 10.6 in a virtual machine if they are serious about performance and productivity. Allow users to at last downgrade.

Vol7ron
Jun 17, 2011, 03:46 PM
In other news, Apple's Mac Pro design team has not been seen in its offices since some time last year.

:eek:









:p

That's cause they were designing the new Apple Mothership Campus....

paradox00
Jun 17, 2011, 04:59 PM
If any system comes out with a particular version, you cannot go back to an earlier version. So if your apps are not lion compatible, your screwed until the software is updated. For those with apps who make a living from their software, they wont be able to get a faster machine.

Once the sales of macs manufactured prior to Lion dry up, they won't be able to buy anything anyway. Refreshed models or not, it is STANDARD practice to ship the latest OS at the time when the product is produced. Which was my point.

Does Apple really need to cater to the very, very few people that were A) waiting for this particular MBA/mini refresh before purchasing and B) absolutely require Rosetta? You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I want a new mini now, and have no problem updating, so I'd rather see them released ASAP, but there are obvious benefits to the typical consumer and to Apple if they wait. If Apple wants to wait, it's hardly a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If you need Snow Leopard, you probably have bigger concerns than the timing of this one refresh...

Slurpy2k8
Jun 17, 2011, 08:04 PM
I am not liking all the "automatic" stuff that Steve was praising. I do not want my last document to open automatically. I do not want versioning of my documents that will have to be deleted. I do not want my documents automatically sent to the cloud and downloaded to every device. I definitely would prefer the new hardware with Snow Leopard so I can decide when I upgrade my OS, and more importantly, the software and hardware I am using.

In no way shape or form does waiting for Lion to be released have anything to do with making things "convenience" for consumers.

You know, there's an 'off' switch for iCloud. It may also surprise you that that you can selectively turn on/off what kind of things you want synced. Enough with the manufactured and contrived outrage.

As for the new saving/versioning system, it's something that will really help and benefit 95% of people out there, I'm thinking. It will ellieviate a massive tension point most people have with computers. As is obvious from the various sources of outrage on these forums, Apple caters to the majority, not a small niche that may not like a feature- it's what has made them successful. Also, I don't see how this system will negatively affect you- it happens invisibly in the background, and I'm sure you can always 'save as' manually. Who knows, it may save your ass once or twice. Or more. I know it would have saved mine on multiple occasions.

krimp
Jun 17, 2011, 11:46 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Come on Apple I'll upgrade my new MBA myself! You're killing me with this wait!

I have convinced myself to go from Pc to apple and the mac air 13 4gb ram is the one for me. i cant wait any longer with these rumored upgrades i think its fantastic as it is. looking forward to being rid of pc issues...

mystic man
Jun 18, 2011, 07:36 AM
I'd rather see a Mac mini upgrade with Thunderbolt, a Core i5/i7 CPU and a dedicated GPU with its own RAM at the cost of removing the optical drive. If you need one, the MacBook Air external drive works fine with the unibody Mac mini.

that, plus usb 3.0
(the ssd, i ll install it myself)

noahtk
Jun 18, 2011, 12:41 PM
I have convinced myself to go from Pc to apple and the mac air 13 4gb ram is the one for me. i cant wait any longer with these rumored upgrades i think its fantastic as it is. looking forward to being rid of pc issues...

Come on... PC issues are pretty rare if you know what you're doing -that includes buying from the right hardware vendor...

noahtk
Jun 18, 2011, 12:41 PM
Apple needs to announce OS X Lion's release date already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

AttilaTheHun
Jun 18, 2011, 07:08 PM
If any system comes out with a particular version, you cannot go back to an earlier version. So if your apps are not lion compatible, your screwed until the software is updated. For those with apps who make a living from their software, they wont be able to get a faster machine.

To take care of what you say
buy the MBP now with OS X 10.6 upgrade to lion, if you run to a problem,
format the hard drive and reinstall 10.6

mdgm
Jun 19, 2011, 03:03 AM
that, plus usb 3.0
Intel doesn't support USB 3.0 on Sandy Bridge, so I expect we'll have to wait for Ivy Bridge machines to see USB 3.0.

CoreForce
Jun 19, 2011, 03:14 AM
Apple is holding back on releasing updated Mac models in order to wait for work on OS X Lion to be completed.

Acceleration of the "early adopters" wave. This way, if there is whatever problem with the Air or Mini encountered in the field, there will be a much huger pile for the problem and many more customers even more unsatisfied with Apple. Think about this, Apple Marketing.

Store is "back soon", btw.

orfeas0
Jun 19, 2011, 04:51 PM
Can anyone explain to me how to upgrade from Leopard to Lion (in July of course, not now)?

Go to the app store. Download Lion. Install Lion. Easy huh?


on-topic, I believe they want to present the new MBAs as "the ultimate notebook".

You remember the phrase "The next generation of macbooks", meaning the air.
Now the new air upgrade coming with OSX Lion as a standard, it will be the ultimate combination of hardware and software. I just hope they do upgrade the hardware part a little bit more than just sandy bridge. For example, I believe they SHOULD use 4gb as a standard, and maybe more disk space.
By the way, let's all pray for a new white macbook (maybe a black one too xD)

Bonsai1214
Jun 19, 2011, 05:05 PM
Go to the app store. Download Lion. Install Lion. Easy huh?


leopard doesn't have the app store.

orfeas0
Jun 19, 2011, 05:10 PM
If I erase my HD first how will I get Lion on without installing SL first (which would partly negate the point of starting with a clean slate)?

Well, noone knows yet how the OS install from the mac app store will work, but I'm guessing after downloading Lion you will be given the option to upgrade or format&install from scratch. We'll have to wait and see.


leopard doesn't have the app store.
woa, didn't know that. Does that mean it will cost double to upgrade from leopard to lion in comparison to Snow Leopard to lion?? Since it will ONLY be available in the mac app store...

beltzak
Jun 28, 2011, 06:07 PM
I feel like I'm always "waiting" for the next best thing.
I definitely passed on the iPad 2 because I want the Retina Display with the next gen rumored for early 2012.
I passed on the i4 on Verizon because it was a 6 month old phone so I'll definitely be getting the i4s/i5 (whatever they call it).
And now I wondr about the MBP because of the rumored new design it's supposed to have next year.

Ahh if I just knew I would either buy/wait.


Well I'm waiting as well. No ipad 2, there is no need, is better than the first one but it's not the One ;)

Macbook pro yeah, I want that beast without optical drive and get surprised by apple by doing something amazing increasing the battery life and something more un-expected ;) And then it's going to be a Rev.A so we'll have to wait at least to Rev.B ;P to get fixed those thermal issues ;O

So expect something on november 2012 :p

Rocketman
Jun 28, 2011, 06:41 PM
I found a solution to the dilema. When a truly revolutionary product is released, I say s*rew Rev A and BUY. Examples are iPhone 1, PowerBook Titanium and C2D Mac-Mini.

As far as "gadgets" my real advise is if it appeals to you buy it, and set aside doubts and future obsolesence. For goodness sake all you iPhone 4 owners have it miles above 1, 3G, 3GS and the 3GS is still shipping as new from carriers!

Apple goes to great lengths to offer features to compel buying NOW right to the end of the product sales life, which is typically 4 years away from the end of its practical life. They also have a pricing strategy to make buying on price and features as factors simple and practical.

The days of Apple crippling products is over. They all well exceed needed performance for UI. The current limits are ISP services, wireless carriers and the services they will allow Apple to enable.

Apple is ahead of the curve for once.

Rocketman

techmanac
Jun 29, 2011, 09:53 AM
for $29.00 ill be happy to do the upgrade

clukas
Jun 29, 2011, 10:50 AM
Seeing that everyone is ranting about inconveniences I though I will join in.

Its a real shame that apple doesn't consider waiting to be an inconvenience, yes I save myself a 30 minute trip to the apple store and 1.20 in parking charges, but I have to wait 1 month for some laptop which Im not even going to buy? Stupid if you ask me, they could just hurry up and release lion, they are advertising that the upgrade will be easy, well if its easy then it shouldn't be an inconvenience for people with new hardware to upgrade then. Come on apple, waiting for your products is a greater inconvenience than doing a 25 minute upgrade.

Cougarcat
Jun 29, 2011, 12:32 PM
Seeing that everyone is ranting about inconveniences I though I will join in.

Its a real shame that apple doesn't consider waiting to be an inconvenience, yes I save myself a 30 minute trip to the apple store and 1.20 in parking charges, but I have to wait 1 month for some laptop which Im not even going to buy?

No, you're waiting a few more weeks for Apple to finish Lion. It's not done yet.

skyline r34
Jul 3, 2011, 07:43 AM
Should I wait for the updated Cinema Display? Thinking about buying a second display for my setup or do you guys think Apple is not updating the cienma display with thunderbolt 720p face time camera?

zedsdead
Jul 3, 2011, 08:01 AM
Should I wait for the updated Cinema Display? Thinking about buying a second display for my setup or do you guys think Apple is not updating the cienma display with thunderbolt 720p face time camera?

I would wait until the Mac Pro's get updated which should be happening by the end of August. The Cinema Displays will likely get an update alongside it with Thunderbolt Ports/FaceTime HD Camera.

AidenShaw
Jul 3, 2011, 08:30 AM
...updating the cienma display with thunderbolt 720p face time camera?

...with Thunderbolt Ports/FaceTime HD Camera.

Extremely unlikely that it will have a TBolt camera, extremely unlikely.

What is quite possible is that it will have a USB 720p ("HD-lite") camera, and a TBolt->USB3.0/1394/GbE/eSATA multi-function adapter. (maybe 802.11 and bluetooth as well, and perhaps an optical drive if the next laptops drop the optical)

This would turn the display into a nice docking station for a TBolt-enabled laptop. Connect power/TBolt cables to the laptop, and the rest of your peripherals are connected to the monitor.