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MacRumors
Jun 17, 2011, 12:28 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/17/apple-adds-new-samsung-products-to-infringement-lawsuit-strengthens-assertions/)


Earlier this week, we noted (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/14/apple-calls-to-samsungs-request-attempt-to-harass/) that Apple had filed a response to Samsung's patent countersuit, calling a recent motion by Samsung to gain access to unreleased iOS hardware an "attempt to harass" and irrelevant to the case at hand. The filing came just ahead ahead of a deadline for Samsung to share its unreleased hardware (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/24/apple-granted-access-to-unreleased-samsung-hardware-in-patent-suit/) with Apple.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/05/iphone_galaxy_comparison.jpg


Apple yesterday made another move (http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/06/apple-amends-complaint-against-samsung.html) in the chess match, amending its complaint against Samsung to strengthen the language and to include a number of new Samsung models, including some of those set to be turned over to Apple today, as infringing products.Many of the changes are designed to portray Samsung's alleged infringement as an incredibly outrageous act of copying. The original complaint already accused Samsung of "slavishly copying" Apple's designs. The amended one stresses that Samsung "has been even bolder" than other competitors emulating Apple's products and has created "products that blatantly imitate the appearance of Apple's products to capitalize on Apple's success."In addition to the original 15 Samsung models cited in Apple's lawsuit, the following models have been added: Droid Charge, Exhibit 4G, Galaxy Ace, Galaxy Prevail, Galaxy S (i9000), Gravity, Infuse 4G, Nexus S 4G, Replenish, Sidekick, Galaxy Tab 10.1, and Galaxy S II. Apple has also tweaked some of the patent claims included in the lawsuit, removing a few assertions and adding other patents to the mix.

Apple's dispute with Samsung is being closely watched for a number of reasons, including Samsung's recent strong growth with the Android platform, Samsung's role as a prominent supplier for components of Apple's iOS devices, and the vociferousness of Apple's claims of outright copying by Samsung accompanied by numerous side-by-side comparisons in support of the claims.

Article Link: Apple Adds New Samsung Products to Infringement Lawsuit, Strengthens Assertions (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/17/apple-adds-new-samsung-products-to-infringement-lawsuit-strengthens-assertions/)



IzzyJG99
Jun 17, 2011, 12:36 PM
I gotta admit that does look like a bad Chinese iPhone clone right there....

jontech
Jun 17, 2011, 12:37 PM
Go into any store with both phones in question and you will see Samsung showed no shame in ripping off the look and feel.


Gotta side with Apple on this one.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 12:38 PM
I gotta admit that does look like a bad Chinese iPhone clone right there....

Funny thing is the iPhone has more Samsung components in it than most of you think.

mactree
Jun 17, 2011, 12:38 PM
See there's a big difference. Samsung has the little dots that show you what page you're on at the top.

FrizzleFryBen
Jun 17, 2011, 12:41 PM
I try to learn a new word everyday. Thanks to MacRumors it's "vociferousness". I have no idea how to say it or what it means, but I'm going to butcher the hell out of it! :D

sicn
Jun 17, 2011, 12:42 PM
See, their big faux pas was to not use Google's original look and feel but opted to make its own TouchWiz UX, which I must agree is a total rip off of the Apple home screen. The telephone (hardware) itself, however, doesn't look that similar. It looks like a phone, that's it :)

dustinsc
Jun 17, 2011, 12:42 PM
You can only do so much to make a smart phone look original, but those Samsung phones really do look like blatant rip-offs, more fitting for a Chinese company than a Korean one. Why don't they emulate HTC, which offers some actual advantages?

0815
Jun 17, 2011, 12:42 PM
I try to learn a new word everyday. Thanks to MacRumors it's "vociferousness". I have no idea how to say it or what it means, but I'm going to butcher the hell out of it! :D

Vociferousness
A scream, shout, holler, vociferation, or yell is a loud vocalization in which air is passed through the vocal cords with greater force than is used in regular or close-distance vocalization. ..

ranReloaded
Jun 17, 2011, 12:42 PM
[...]In addition to the original 15 Samsung models cited in Apple's lawsuit, the following models have been added: Droid Charge, Exhibit 4G, Galaxy Ace, Galaxy Prevail, Galaxy S (i9000), Gravity, Infuse 4G, Nexus S 4G, Replenish, Sidekick, Galaxy Tab 10.1, and Galaxy S II. [...]

...and don't forget to add the 'Unsurmountable', the 'Ubiquitous', the 'Pretentious' and the 'Majestic'... I'm pretty sure some of those are real :D (or at the very least, in the drawing board right now).

Seriously, 'Prevail'? What is this, a speech by George W?

supmango
Jun 17, 2011, 12:43 PM
It sounds like they are going to sue each other into oblivion. The fate of many companies in today's world, I'm afraid.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 12:45 PM
Its going to get interesting.

Apple suing Samsung and Nokia turning their eyes on Google next. And Oracle wants billions from Google.

Meanwhile Google is trying desperately to buy license some of Nortel's patents so it has something to make deals with.

ranReloaded
Jun 17, 2011, 12:47 PM
You can only do so much to make a smart phone look original, but those Samsung phones really do look like blatant rip-offs, more fitting for a Chinese company than a Korean one. [...]

They're pretty close to chinese-grade in terms of tackiness.

Disclaimer:No offense intended to all the decent, original and innovative chinese people out there.

TheUndertow
Jun 17, 2011, 12:47 PM
Funny thing is the iPhone has more Samsung components in it than most of you think.

That's exactly the problem. Apple works closely with them in a lot of regards.

For the company to the come back and emulate the look AND feel (design) of your devices (with success selling competitive platform) is treachery.

ranReloaded
Jun 17, 2011, 12:49 PM
What I can't believe is Samsung asking to see the yet-to-announce Apple prototypes in exchange. They are being accused of copying. That would be like some dude accused of robbery in a court asking you the keys to your home in exchange for his confession.

flottenheimer
Jun 17, 2011, 12:49 PM
There no doubt that had Apple never turned it's attention towards mobile phones, the Samsung phones of today would have looked and behaved nothing like they do now.

Case closed.
Bring on the benjamins.

Popeye206
Jun 17, 2011, 12:51 PM
I think their big mistake was pretty much photocopying the home screen and layout of iOS.

Also, as the other poster points out. See it in person and it could easily be mistaken for an iPhone.

Samsung should just change the UI design of the OS and end this.

0815
Jun 17, 2011, 12:53 PM
What I can't believe is Samsung asking to see the yet-to-announce Apple prototypes in exchange. They are being accused of copying. That would be like some dude accused of robbery in a court asking you the keys to your home in exchange for his confession.

Well, the sooner they see the new prototypes the sooner they can start copying (remember, they went back to the drawing board after the iPad2 came out) ...

But seriously: What I think is they just wan't to make some sort of point: "hey, Apple will sue us whatever we do, now we need to see the prototypes to protect from that by finding similarities early" ... they argued in the law suit that they need to see them to protect themselves from apple (NOT because they think Apple copies). Big difference ... but still a joke in my opinion.

Popeye206
Jun 17, 2011, 12:54 PM
There no doubt that had Apple never turned it's attention towards mobile phones, the Samsung phones of today would have looked and behaved nothing like they do now.

Case closed.
Bring on the benjamins.

It's possible none of the smart phones would look the way they do now. You have to remember what was out there before the iPhone.... cluncky confusing phones with horrid OS's and bulky confusing hardware that looks like junk today. I even doubt Android would be as far as they are without the iPhone.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 12:56 PM
There no doubt that had Apple never turned it's attention towards mobile phones, the Samsung phones of today would have looked and behaved nothing like they do now.

Case closed.
Bring on the benjamins.

True.

Now you will see someone post some image that predated the iphone with a similar feature or two. Yawn. These people don't see the big picture.

macphoria
Jun 17, 2011, 12:57 PM
If this is hardware issue, I do see iPhone resemblance in Samsung hardware and I believe Apple has valid case.

But looking at the software, how much can Apple hold Samsung liable since Samsung device uses Android software which isn't entirely Samsung's product?

Can someone shed some light on this?

jonnysods
Jun 17, 2011, 12:58 PM
Wow that does look very similar.

But is that enough?

chrono1081
Jun 17, 2011, 12:59 PM
Go into any store with both phones in question and you will see Samsung showed no shame in ripping off the look and feel.


Gotta side with Apple on this one.

Agreed. Verizon employees where I live call these phones the "iSamsungs" and they are VERY similar to the iPhone, down to the icons.

Icaras
Jun 17, 2011, 01:00 PM
Go Apple! I support this.

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 01:01 PM
Apple was waiting for this. It was a long time coming. They were waiting for just the right moment.

Test the waters with only one or two Samsung knockoffs. See what happens. The court gives Apple the go-ahead and now the floodgates are open.

0815
Jun 17, 2011, 01:01 PM
It's possible none of the smart phones would look the way they do now. You have to remember what was out there before the iPhone.... cluncky confusing phones with horrid OS's and bulky confusing hardware that looks like junk today. I even doubt Android would be as far as they are without the iPhone.

Look how the google smartphone / Android (Prototype) looked like before the iPhone was announced:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/12/thumb463x_androidlive.JPG

... looked like a RIM copy cat.

Source: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/02/google_phone_prototype_to_be_shown_next_week_at_mobile_world_congress-2/

Popeye206
Jun 17, 2011, 01:02 PM
If this is hardware issue, I do see iPhone resemblance in Samsung hardware and I believe Apple has valid case.

But looking at the software, how much can Apple hold Samsung liable since Samsung device uses Android software which isn't entirely Samsung's product?

Can someone shed some light on this?

They may use Android, but look at the custom layout. It's very, very similar to iOS. This combined with the hardware makes it look like a knock-off.

You can bet your bottom dollar, the product team for this product set out with the mission to clone the iPhone as close as possible.

Popeye206
Jun 17, 2011, 01:03 PM
Look how the google smartphone / Android looked like before the iPhone was announced:

Image (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/12/thumb463x_androidlive.JPG)

Source: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/02/google_phone_prototype_to_be_shown_next_week_at_mobile_world_congress-2/

Wow... thuggly! :eek:

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 01:03 PM
Steve saw it coming:

http://www.mytelecominfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/iPad2_2011_Year-of-the-copycats-300x200.jpg



Agreed. Verizon employees where I live call these phones the "iSamsungs" and they are VERY similar to the iPhone, down to the icons.
^^

iSamsungs - classic!

jontech
Jun 17, 2011, 01:07 PM
Hahahaa...

I cannot say this word without sounding drunk

CosmoPilot
Jun 17, 2011, 01:08 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Wasn't the iPhone the first to use an entirely flat capacitive touch screen interface (smartphone, not PDA)?

Now look at marketplace.

This is no different than the iPad. Look at all the tablet offerings trying to "catch up"

I hope Apple wins this ( I suspect they will settle out of court)!

iMaci7
Jun 17, 2011, 01:09 PM
Its pretty clear every single multi touch screen phone made since 2007 was heavily inspired by the iPhone. Which isnt a bad thing, copying off of Apple usually results in success.

Not going after Samsung isnt even an option for Apple, patent holders by law, must pursue those who infringe if they want to keep their patent rights, or at least thats what i remember from college. If anyone here is evil, its Samsung, they made money on Apples ideas and patents. The fact that Apple products have Samsung stuff in them is not relavent in any way. Apple pays samsung for their components. Infact, its great for Samsung that Apple is ordering so many tens of millions of samsung items for their iPads and iPhones.

blue22
Jun 17, 2011, 01:09 PM
That's exactly the problem. Apple works closely with them in a lot of regards.

For the company to the come back and emulate the look AND feel (design) of your devices (with success selling competitive platform) is treachery.

What I can't believe is Samsung asking to see the yet-to-announce Apple prototypes in exchange. They are being accused of copying. That would be like some dude accused of robbery in a court asking you the keys to your home in exchange for his confession.

There no doubt that had Apple never turned it's attention towards mobile phones, the Samsung phones of today would have looked and behaved nothing like they do now.

Case closed.
Bring on the benjamins.

Steve saw it coming:

Image (http://www.mytelecominfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/iPad2_2011_Year-of-the-copycats-300x200.jpg)

iSamsungs - classic!

They say stealing is the highest form of flattery, but this is just obscene by Samsung. Save for some VERY minor details the Galaxy S is a total blatant attempt to rip-off of the iPhone UI interface.

OllyW
Jun 17, 2011, 01:12 PM
I try to learn a new word everyday. Thanks to MacRumors it's "vociferousness". I have no idea how to say it or what it means, but I'm going to butcher the hell out of it! :D

If you've got a Mac, hold down CTRL, CMD & D and hover the mouse cursor over the word. All will be revealed. :)

srxtr
Jun 17, 2011, 01:14 PM
My wife's cousin works for Samsung. The last time I visited Korea:

Me: "Look what I got!"
I show off my newest (then) iPhone 3G.

My wife's cousin: "Well, look what I got!"
He brings out what appeared to be a prototype Samsung touchscreen phone with iOS loaded on it. That's right, iOS.

Apparently this is what they do.

Skika
Jun 17, 2011, 01:17 PM
If you've got a Mac, hold down CTRL, Option & D and hover the mouse cursor over the word. All will be revealed. :)


Mind=Blown

ssk2
Jun 17, 2011, 01:18 PM
God I love fanboys....

Apple use an identical notification system to Android? No problem.
Apple use a identical messaging system to RIM? Excellent.

Samsung use a green phone icon to represent the phone app? OMGGGGZZ LAW SUIT!!!?!1

Do you not see the irony?

This topic has been done to death and is clearly not as simple as the fanboys make out. This is clear by the fact that the case(s) continue to rumble on, with no sign of resolution.

scoobydoo99
Jun 17, 2011, 01:18 PM
Really?

you might want to correct the grammatical error in your signature

gglockner
Jun 17, 2011, 01:18 PM
I am not a lawyer, but if I recall correctly, it is not illegal to copy the look-and-feel of another product unless you can prove that it will create real confusion among consumers, creating a potential for fraud. Although it is in bad taste for Samsung to copy Apple, I don't think that alone is grounds for a lawsuit.

What will be interesting is whether there is merit in Apple's patents.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 01:20 PM
Another thing so sorely missed is that the home screen you see on the Samsung phone is 100% customizable so it can look like whatever you want it to look like. The iphone is just the iPhone.

.11
Jun 17, 2011, 01:21 PM
Have any of actual seen some of these devices? Why are stock android devices on the list? Why is this suit against the phones and not the UI?

It doesn't make any sense. I agree with Apple on Touch Wiz only, Touch Wiz without widgets looks a lot like iOS, but the phone hardware and physical design don't resemble iPhones. If this suit was against Touch Wiz's UI alone, then yeah Samsung better pay up.

But it's not it's for all there devices, maybe its because Samsung can compete, or maybe the want a cross licensing patent agreement. I don't know, but there something else going on.

Some Devices:
Galaxy Tab 10.1
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/news/samsung-galaxy-tab_10.1.jpg
?

Galaxy Prevail
http://cdn.androidcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/galaxy-prevail-boost.jpg

?

Nexus S
http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/nexuss4g.jpg

?

Replenish

http://www.letsgomobile.org/images/news/samsung/samsung-replenish.jpg

Seriously, that devices is included?

Sidekick 4G
http://www.technologyrekor.eu/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Samsung-Outs-Source-for-T-Mobile-Sidekick-4G-Android.jpg

Who will mistake this for an iOS device instead of a sidekick?

Samsung Transform

http://images.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/files/articleimage/579/2010/10/samsung-transform/samsung-transform-01.jpg

?

Samsung Intercept

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/sp/hm/91/sphm910zkaspr/m910_600x600_xlarge_cf.jpg

?

Acclaim
http://cdn.androidcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/samsung-acclaim.jpg

?

And the Galaxy Tab
http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/artikelen/47/samsung-galaxy_tab.jpg

?

The other phones use Touch Wiz, which I think is a rip of the iPhone's UI. But I don't know why the above phones are in the suit.

swagi
Jun 17, 2011, 01:22 PM
And if Steve had a keynote in which he claimed he invented bottled water, I know a lot of people right now just going for it.

Now let's see what would happen, if Nokia would sue the hell out of Apple. They clearly have a case, because you should actually look what they trademarked as Navi (TM)-Key.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 01:23 PM
Have any of actual seen some of these devices? Why are stock android devices on the list? Why is this suit against the phones and not the UI?


Thats the thing. Apple is showing you a picture of the Galaxy looking like an iPhone, they aren't showing you the screen with Widgets and other Android specific features such as the Notification Sy... oops... let me guess iPhone didn't copy Android Notification system thats right. My bad.

ForzaJuve
Jun 17, 2011, 01:24 PM
What I can't believe is Samsung asking to see the yet-to-announce Apple prototypes in exchange. They are being accused of copying. That would be like some dude accused of robbery in a court asking you the keys to your home in exchange for his confession.

No, it' more like he is asking for the keys to your house so that he can go in and take a good peek to make sure next time he robs someone it is not your stuff.

rosalindavenue
Jun 17, 2011, 01:25 PM
Patent suits are my least favorite tech topic. Look and feel patents are particularly silly. Apple just paid Nokia a ridiculous amount of money for things that should never have been patentable; now they are suing Sammy for things that should not have been patentable.

Regarding the Android prototype pictured above: I had this Sony Clie 10 years ago:

http://www.sonyclie.org/images/sony_clie_peg_t615c_02.jpg

I used to hold it up to my ear and think: Hmm, if only this were a phone with internet access-- a touch dialpad and I could make calls and browse the web, plus all the palm apps (or whatever they were called back then).

The idea should not have been patentable. Period.

xFenixKnightx
Jun 17, 2011, 01:26 PM
I have the Verizon version which actually doesnt resemble this one at all. Samsung knew what they were doing with that model up there and its pretty shameful IMO.

Made this when I first got it. http://youtu.be/WvMSsVd4f6Y

Still love it! I dont use Touchwiz. I use Launcher Pro, a home replacement app. I like a more stock Android feel. I like widgets and costomization. I love the 4" punchy colorful SAMOLED screen. I always found the iPhone 3.5" was too small or me. =( Im not here to bash the iPhone. I have an iPad 2 which I love and I cant wait for iOS5. But yeah Sammy really needs to get rid of Touchwiz and iPhone 3GS knockoff. They actually kind of did with the Samsung Galaxy II, which looks great! cant we all just get along?

Thunderhawks
Jun 17, 2011, 01:27 PM
They may use Android, but look at the custom layout. It's very, very similar to iOS. This combined with the hardware makes it look like a knock-off.

You can bet your bottom dollar, the product team for this product set out with the mission to clone the iPhone as close as possible.

Based on what goes on over there, maybe Apple can buy the meeting minutes and recordings, plus e-mails for $ 3,000 or so.

joshuarayer
Jun 17, 2011, 01:27 PM
So the complaint is that Samsung copied a grid layout of the phones applications with a section at the bottom for 4 always on-screen apps and a rounded-corner shaped phone? Im pretty sure Palm beat Apple a long time ago to the grid-based app layout with the Palm OS 1 and the Palm Pilot 1000 in the mid 1990's and they even had 4 buttons that linked to apps at the bottom of the screen. So how about you think before you blindly stick behind Apples every move.

dustinsc
Jun 17, 2011, 01:28 PM
If this is hardware issue, I do see iPhone resemblance in Samsung hardware and I believe Apple has valid case.

But looking at the software, how much can Apple hold Samsung liable since Samsung device uses Android software which isn't entirely Samsung's product?

Can someone shed some light on this?

This isn't a patent claim, which hinges on similarities in HOW they work. This is a trademark claim,which hinges on the potential for consumer confusion. The look and feel is what is relevant in a trademark or, more accurately in this case, trade dress case.

Thunderhawks
Jun 17, 2011, 01:28 PM
And if Steve had a keynote in which he claimed he invented bottled water, I know a lot of people right now just going for it.


You mean he didn't and we were all lied to?

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 01:29 PM
I think Apple is listing all possible copies Samsung has made regardless of how close to the iphone for a couple of reasons. First is to make a point about the UI being similar. That isn't enough for a case but when the overall physical design is considered, the UI argument is already in place. Some models will get thrown out but the point is made.

The one model with the hide away keyboard looks just like an iphone with that feature tacked on. I remember at one point that was a rumor for the next iphone. The leaks are probably coming from people contracted to make iOS devices and Samsung's copies.

jamesryanbell
Jun 17, 2011, 01:30 PM
"Competition encourages better products!"

Don't take that route. Apple WON by creating iPhone. I think it'd be awesome if they had patented the idea of touchscreen swiping in general so NO ONE could make a phone with that idea. Come up with something else. The moment iPhone hit, it needs to be the only phone with that sort of input system for 17 years.

Old school.

Sadly, I'm serious, and I'd love to see that even at my own expense. Too much copying going on these days. "Oh they're making money like this! I'm gonna do it too!". I wish there was some way to prevent that from ever happening.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 01:32 PM
So the complaint is that Samsung copied a grid layout of the phones applications with a section at the bottom for 4 always on-screen apps and a rounded-corner shaped phone? Im pretty sure Palm beat Apple a long time ago to the grid-based app layout with the Palm OS 1 and the Palm Pilot 1000 in the mid 1990's and they even had 4 buttons that linked to apps at the bottom of the screen. So how about you think before you blindly stick behind Apples every move.

You dropped your stylus.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:32 PM
How do you guys, particularly the fanboys, feel about Apple copying others?

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:33 PM
You mean he didn't and we were all lied to?

No, he did, and patented it too.

joshuarayer
Jun 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
You dropped your stylus.

It's a touch screen. The only thing the stylus was really needed for was scrolling(a huge pain I will admit because of its 2 pixel wide scroll bar) and writing.

dustinsc
Jun 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
Now let's see what would happen, if Nokia would sue the hell out of Apple. They clearly have a case, because you should actually look what they trademarked as Navi (TM)-Key.

Umm....that happened. And they settled. Remember?

ssk2
Jun 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
How do you guys, particularly the fanboys, feel about Apple copying others?

I asked this on the last page - the post got negative feedback. Hard to take for some hey?

The whole suit is ridiculous. Just a way of boosting media coverage for both companies.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 01:36 PM
How do you guys, particularly the fanboys, feel about Apple copying others?

Apple has a strong case against Samsung.

Now RIM made a tablet that has features that distinguish it from the ipad for instance. But unfortunately their stock is down 20% today. I guess Apple's overall user experience and feel is what people want. Maybe Samsung understood that and that is why they so blatantly copied Apple.

So what do you think of Apple creating whole new markets where all the competition follows suit?

Hey the Android fanboys are here. You could tell by all the negative ratings that were suddenly appearing.

Mad Man
Jun 17, 2011, 01:39 PM
If this is hardware issue, I do see iPhone resemblance in Samsung hardware and I believe Apple has valid case.

But looking at the software, how much can Apple hold Samsung liable since Samsung device uses Android software which isn't entirely Samsung's product?

Can someone shed some light on this?

It is about the layer that Samsung put 'on top' of the Android UI - that layer that is supposed to look like iOS. This layer (look&feel) is 100% Samsung.

dba7dba
Jun 17, 2011, 01:40 PM
Apple has a strong case against Samsung.

Now RIM made a tablet that has features that distinguish it from the ipad for instance. But unfortunately their stock is down 20% today. I guess Apple's overall user experience and feel is what people want. Maybe Samsung understood that and that is why they so blatantly copied Apple.

So what do you think of Apple creating whole new markets where all the competition follows suit?

Hey the Android fanboys are here. You could tell by all the negative ratings that were suddenly appearing.

haha, ten-oak-druid, you are not answering the question from wikus. So how do you feel about apple copying others?

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 01:40 PM
How do you guys, particularly the fanboys, feel about Apple copying others?

Apple's been ripped off consistently, regularly, blatantly since June 2007, and they've been rather kind about it up until recently.

Fair play by Apple. Karma's a bitch.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:40 PM
Apple has a strong case against Samsung.

Now RIM made a tablet that has features that distinguish it from the ipad for instance. But unfortunately their stock is down 20% today. I guess Apple's overall user experience and feel is what people want. Maybe Samsung understood that and that is why they so blatantly copied Apple.

So what do you think of Apple creating whole new markets where all the competition follows suit?

Hey the Android fanboys are here. You could tell by all the negative ratings that were suddenly appearing.

So in essence, you don't care if Apple copies any other company.

bearcatrp
Jun 17, 2011, 01:41 PM
Seems allot of companies are ripping each other off. Apple ripping off nokia, samsung supposedly ripping off apple, etc.. Going to get even bigger when whoever buys nortel patents will start demanding money. Gets funnier every day.

autrefois
Jun 17, 2011, 01:41 PM
If you've got a Mac, hold down CTRL, Option & D and hover the mouse cursor over the word. All will be revealed. :)

More will be revealed if you hold down ctrl, command, and D.

(I haven't used this in a while and couldn't get it to work, then I realized it was just command instead of option -- easy to confuse.)

bearcatrp
Jun 17, 2011, 01:42 PM
Apple's been ripped off consistently, regularly, blatantly since June 2007, and they've been rather kind about it up until recently.

Fair play by Apple. Karma's a bitch.

Right on the mark!

Mad Man
Jun 17, 2011, 01:42 PM
Patent suits are my least favorite tech topic. Look and feel patents are particularly silly. Apple just paid Nokia a ridiculous amount of money for things that should never have been patentable; now they are suing Sammy for things that should not have been patentable.

Regarding the Android prototype pictured above: I had this Sony Clie 10 years ago:

Image (http://www.sonyclie.org/images/sony_clie_peg_t615c_02.jpg)

I used to hold it up to my ear and think: Hmm, if only this were a phone with internet access-- a touch dialpad and I could make calls and browse the web, plus all the palm apps (or whatever they were called back then).

The idea should not have been patentable. Period.

Hmm, I don't remember that those had a touch screen and that you controlled the UI by using your finger on the screen .... seems I'm getting old and my memory is failing me

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:42 PM
Apple's been ripped off consistently, regularly, blatantly since June 2007, and they've been rather kind about it up until recently.

Fair play by Apple. Karma's a bitch.

I would appreciate it if YOU of specifically refrained from responding to questions that required an unbiased, rational and logical thought.

Lone Deranger
Jun 17, 2011, 01:44 PM
God I love fanboys....

Apple use an identical notification system to Android? No problem.
Apple use a identical messaging system to RIM? Excellent.

Samsung use a green phone icon to represent the phone app? OMGGGGZZ LAW SUIT!!!?!1

Do you not see the irony?

This topic has been done to death and is clearly not as simple as the fanboys make out. This is clear by the fact that the case(s) continue to rumble on, with no sign of resolution.

You reaaaally don't see the bigger picture here do you? :rolleyes:

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 01:45 PM
haha, ten-oak-druid, you are not answering the question from wikus. So how do you feel about apple copying others?

How do you android fanboys feel about being so resentful that others prefer iOS, that you need to seek us out and tell us we are wrong?

I think there is some deep seeded need in all of you to make everyone conform to your view. I don't know what the underlying issue is but I hope you get help.

InfernoShade
Jun 17, 2011, 01:45 PM
Look how the google smartphone / Android (Prototype) looked like before the iPhone was announced:

Image (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/12/thumb463x_androidlive.JPG)

... looked like a RIM copy cat.

Source: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/02/google_phone_prototype_to_be_shown_next_week_at_mobile_world_congress-2/

Good find! Great example of how the iPhone influenced all phones.

Lesser Evets
Jun 17, 2011, 01:46 PM
Hope Arn posts the follow-ups to these cases, so we see where they ended and how.

erzhik
Jun 17, 2011, 01:47 PM
Apple has a strong case against Samsung.

So what do you think of Apple creating whole new markets where all the competition follows suit?



Apple doesn't have a strong case. Just because Apple fans believe they do, doesn't make it a fact. Apple fans will think that Apple has a strong case, while Samsung fans will believe otherwise. We don't know all ins and outs of the case. Apple is only accusing right now. A strong case is when the judge takes these accusations and accepts them as evidence in the case.

And Apple didn't create anything new. They took upon the idea of something that was done before and only improved it to their liking. Stop believing that Apple created something that was not done before.

And by your belief that Apple did create new market, this is how business is done. Someone creates something, others follows to create healthy competition, to innovate and make US (the consumers) better off. If you think the world would be better off with only one company in the market, well.. you should really take some economics or business classes.

On a personal level, I don't really care who wins this. This is business and this is how all companies do it (every single one). This will be settled behind closed doors like all other major cases involving major companies. Cases like that never go to actual trial.

And before you call me an Android fanboy, I should stop you. I am not. I have an android tablet, I have a MacBook Pro, a Nokia N900 and a windows desktop PC. I use things that I actually find useful.

OllyW
Jun 17, 2011, 01:47 PM
More will be revealed if you hold down ctrl, command (aka Open Apple), and D.

(I haven't used this in a while and couldn't get it to work, then I realized it was just command instead of option, easy to confuse.)

Ha. I always mix those two up. :o

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 01:47 PM
I would appreciate it if YOU of specifically refrained from responding to questions that required an unbiased, rational and logical thought.

I give you reality. No more, no less. I can see how you might find that uncomfortable.

SJ said back in 2007 about the iPhone: "we've patented the hell out of it."

We're about to see just how much he meant it. So far, it's not looking too good for Sammy.

I invite you to stick around for Apple's quarterly in about two weeks. You'd REALLY find that uncomfortable.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:47 PM
Look how the google smartphone / Android (Prototype) looked like before the iPhone was announced:

Image (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/12/thumb463x_androidlive.JPG)

... looked like a RIM copy cat.

Source: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/02/google_phone_prototype_to_be_shown_next_week_at_mobile_world_congress-2/

looks more like a nokia/htc/palm/samsung/etc

i didnt know RIM owned the patent to a qwerty keyboard on mobile devices.

dba7dba
Jun 17, 2011, 01:47 PM
Good find! Great example of how the iPhone influenced all phones.

Not quite true.
LG Prada was shown at a design show few months before iphone was first revealed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/LG_prada_phone_private_picture.jpg

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:48 PM
Not quite true.
LG Prada was shown at a design show few months before iphone was first revealed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)
Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/LG_prada_phone_private_picture.jpg)

nobody cared about that phone because it didnt have an apple logo on it.

phan99
Jun 17, 2011, 01:50 PM
This is more about style than anything else. Take a look at any electronic gadget, including those that have been around for a long period of time. They all rip each other off, and this has been an accepted practice forever. If you look at multiple companies, you will see striking similarities in products such as:

Televisions
Speakers
Receivers
BD/DVD Players
Laptops
Monitors
Headphones

The reason is due to style. Just like clothes, electronics are a symbol of style, and styles come and go. Mobile phones fit this same bill. So, even though I agree that they look similar, is there really a case here? Now, if Samsung put a similar logo to Apple on the back of the phone, then this would be a different situation altogether.

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 01:51 PM
nobody cared about that phone because it didnt have an apple logo on it.

No, no one cared because it was JUNK.

Then again, a lot of junk doesn't seem to have an Apple logo on it.

See any connections?

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 01:51 PM
I imagine Samsung employees are are embarrassed by the dishonorable behavior of their employer. Samsung blatantly copied Apple.

Maybe Samsung will get creative and do something original like go back to the netbook and innovate in a way that so that the netbook market comes back? And like Apple with the ipad they would have a jump start on that returning market?

Yamcha
Jun 17, 2011, 01:51 PM
I don't support this, mainly because the Galaxy Tab is completely different.. I agree that the Samsung phone shown on the image does have very similar icons to iOS, but Galaxy tab doesn't..

tekker
Jun 17, 2011, 01:53 PM
Apple:
>copy Android notifications
rejoice
>copy BBM
rejoice

Samsung:
>similar feel to iOS
SEND OUT THE HOUNDS!!!!

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 01:53 PM
I imagine Samsung employees are are embarrassed by the dishonorable behavior of their employer. Samsung blatantly copied Apple. O

They still make other products which are quite good, such as TVs, hard drives, lots of tech. Of course, a lot of those are six and one half dozen of the other. They need a showcase product in the most progressive and important segment of tech: mobile.

ssk2
Jun 17, 2011, 01:54 PM
No, no one cared because it was JUNK.

Then again, a lot of junk doesn't seem to have an Apple logo on it.

See any connections?

So IP infringement is fine as long as Apple is doing it? You are so laughable, I love when newbies actually take notice of what you're saying.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:54 PM
This is more about style than anything else. Take a look at any electronic gadget, including those that have been around for a long period of time. They all rip each other off, and this has been an accepted practice forever. If you look at multiple companies, you will see striking similarities in products such as:

Televisions
Speakers
Receivers
BD/DVD Players
Laptops
Monitors
Headphones

The reason is due to style. Just like clothes, electronics are a symbol of style, and styles come and go. Mobile phones fit this same bill. So, even though I agree that they look similar, is there really a case here? Now, if Samsung put a similar logo to Apple on the back of the phone, then this would be a different situation altogether.

doesnt matter, apple fanboys seem to think apple owns the patent to anything in grid format and rounded edges.

dba7dba
Jun 17, 2011, 01:56 PM
I imagine Samsung employees are are embarrassed by the dishonorable behavior of their employer. Samsung blatantly copied Apple.

Maybe Samsung will get creative and do something original like go back to the netbook and innovate in a way that so that the netbook market comes back? And like Apple with the ipad they would have a jump start on that returning market?

I think apple employees are feeling embarrassed by apple's behavior. copying ideas from android/rim. Parking 50+ billion bucks in profit in overseas acct to avoid paying taxes etc.

InfernoShade
Jun 17, 2011, 01:56 PM
Thats the thing. Apple is showing you a picture of the Galaxy looking like an iPhone, they aren't showing you the screen with Widgets and other Android specific features such as the Notification Sy... oops... let me guess iPhone didn't copy Android Notification system thats right. My bad.

Dude, the notification system is one small thing. But the copy of the whole phone and (subjectively) the whole UI is quite another.

dba7dba
Jun 17, 2011, 01:58 PM
They still make other products which are quite good, such as TVs, hard drives, lots of tech. Of course, a lot of those are six and one half dozen of the other. They need a showcase product in the most progressive and important segment of tech: mobile.

Ever heard of Galaxy S II?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/28/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-review/

Notice Engadget, worshipper of all things apple, gave it a 9/10.

Yamcha
Jun 17, 2011, 01:58 PM
Apple:
>copy Android notifications
rejoice
>copy BBM
rejoice

Samsung:
>similar feel to iOS
SEND OUT THE HOUNDS!!!!

+1 Exactly, look I love Apple, but I hate it when people support Apple regardless..

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 01:58 PM
So IP infringement is fine as long as Apple is doing it? You are so laughable, I love when newbies actually take notice of what you're saying.

Apple's been doing the industry's R&D since 2007. I'll give them a pass on the Android issue. Google had it coming.

And Samsung's been infringing for quite some time now.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 01:59 PM
Thats the thing. Apple is showing you a picture of the Galaxy looking like an iPhone, they aren't showing you the screen with Widgets and other Android specific features such as the Notification Sy... oops... let me guess iPhone didn't copy Android Notification system thats right. My bad.

Apple copied an app called 'LockInfo'

http://www.lockinfo.net/

http://www.lockinfo.net/LockInfo1.png

vs Apple's

http://www.smartkeitai.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/apple-ios5-notifications.jpg

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 01:59 PM
Dude, the notification system is one small thing. But the copy of the whole phone and (subjectively) the whole UI is quite another.

The UI is 100% customizable though. Put a widget on that main screen and it no longer looks like an iPhone.


Apple copied an app called 'LockInfo'

http://www.lockinfo.net/

Image (http://www.lockinfo.net/LockInfo1.png)

vs Apple's

Image (http://www.smartkeitai.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/apple-ios5-notifications.jpg)

... and Lockinfo got the idea from Android.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 01:59 PM
The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 02:00 PM
The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

Yes, because Samsung is responsible for Android.

Are you an Apple fanboy?

.11
Jun 17, 2011, 02:02 PM
Dude, the notification system is one small thing. But the copy of the whole phone and (subjectively) the whole UI is quite another.

It's actually the home screen without widgets and some icons not the whole UI, here Engadget's shots of the Galaxy s2.

http://www.engadget.com/photos/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-user-interface/#4094191

dba7dba
Jun 17, 2011, 02:02 PM
The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

Haha, you STILL haven't answered wikus' assertion that apple copies too...

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 02:02 PM
They still make other products which are quite good, such as TVs, hard drives, lots of tech. Of course, a lot of those are six and one half dozen of the other. They need a showcase product in the most progressive and important segment of tech: mobile.

That is the thing. Samsung needs to create a new market with something innovative. And I'm talking specifically about the computer/mobile industry. Then they can feel good about themselves again.

tekker
Jun 17, 2011, 02:03 PM
The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

Am I an Android fanboy? I believe that Apple totally revolutionized the mobile industry, however, I think this lawsuit is flat-out ridiculous.

dba7dba
Jun 17, 2011, 02:04 PM
That is the thing. Samsung needs to create a new market with something innovative. And I'm talking specifically about the computer/mobile industry. Then they can feel good about themselves again.

Galaxy S2?

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 02:05 PM
Haha, you STILL haven't answered wikus' assertion that apple copies too...

And he wont. I dont expect him to have a rational view at all, its clear his mind is dead set on blind faith for anything pro-apple.

Why is it that only apple consumers show this kind of evangelical worship to a corporation that ultimately DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN about them, at all, except for their wallet?

.11
Jun 17, 2011, 02:05 PM
Apple's been doing the industry's R&D since 2007. I'll give them a pass on the Android issue. Google had it coming.

And Samsung's been infringing for quite some time now.

Your logic makes no sense.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 02:06 PM
Am I an Android fanboy? I believe that Apple totally revolutionized the mobile industry, however, I think this lawsuit is flat-out ridiculous.

Evolution... not revolution, dont give apple THAT much credit.

ssk2
Jun 17, 2011, 02:06 PM
Apple's been doing the industry's R&D since 2007. I'll give them a pass on the Android issue. Google had it coming.

And Samsung's been infringing for quite some time now.

And there we have it people, proof that LTD thinks that Apple is free to flount IP laws just because Lord Jobs created it. Fantastic.

Apple copied an app called 'LockInfo'



So you're admitting a) that Apple DID copy someone and b) ignoring the fact that there is also the 'swipe to view feature' which Apple have copied from Android?

The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

I think Apple's products are fantastic - I own a Macbook and am about to purchase an iPad. I'm not a fanboy of any description, but Apple are being ridiculous here - they deserve to be laughed out of court.

erzhik
Jun 17, 2011, 02:06 PM
The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

Fanboys won't tell you, just like Apple fanboys will never admit that Android is better in some aspects (I repeat, SOME). But an educated and well informed adult will tell you that Apple, Google or whatever have done things worthy of credit. Apple has done great innovations that deserve credit, but so did other companies, including but not limited to Nokia, Google, RIM, Samsung, HTC, etc, etc etc. And Apple is partially responsible for what smartphone market is right now, just as Nokia's Elop said it before.

But it is clear that you are the type of a person that you described yourself.

ChazUK
Jun 17, 2011, 02:07 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/534.32 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

Is everybody with a difference of opinion to yourself classed as a fanboy?

Here to go, as a "fanboy" I will say that elements of Samsung's TouchWiz UI are familiar to iOS and the design of the Galaxy S i9000 bears a striking resemblance to the iPhone.

What I don't understand is where devices like the Nexus S fit in. Stock Android, curved screen, no bezel... The Nexus s looks different to me.

benthewraith
Jun 17, 2011, 02:07 PM
I think there is some deep seeded need in all of you to make everyone conform to your view. I don't know what the underlying issue is but I hope you get help.

The ones who are quick to say that everyone else has a problem are often the ones with problems themselves.

Considering how you shout down and call those who disagree with you stupid, I'd say you were talking more about yourself here than anyone else.

Yamcha
Jun 17, 2011, 02:07 PM
There was a study done a while back, and they found that most Mac users back up Apple as if it's a religion.. And I think thats true..

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 02:12 PM
There was a study done a while back, and they found that most Mac users back up Apple as if it's a religion.. And I think thats true..

It is completely true.

*shields himself from a reign of religious terror about to be bestowed upon me from *LTD* and company*

yg17
Jun 17, 2011, 02:13 PM
Your logic makes no sense.

Don't even try to bother understanding it. I've since given up and added him to my ignore list. Some people are so biased that it hurts to try to figure it out.

There was a study done a while back, and they found that most Mac users back up Apple as if it's a religion.. And I think thats true..

Give lots and lots of money to another entity. Check
Ignores any facts that go against their beliefs. Check
Impossible to find any logic behind those beliefs. Check

Yeah, sounds like an accurate study to me :D

InfernoShade
Jun 17, 2011, 02:13 PM
Apple:
>copy Android notifications
rejoice
>copy BBM
rejoice

Samsung:
>similar feel to iOS
SEND OUT THE HOUNDS!!!!

You don't the difference between the small notifications system and the giant OS? You should, as they are hugely different issues.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 02:14 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/534.32 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)



Is everybody with a difference of opinion to yourself classed as a fanboy?

Here to go, as a "fanboy" I will say that elements of Samsung's TouchWiz UI are familiar to iOS and the design of the Galaxy S i9000 bears a striking resemblance to the iPhone.

What I don't understand is where devices like the Nexus S fit in. Stock Android, curved screen, no bezel... The Nexus s looks different to me.

Do you really think I believe everyone with a different opinion on this story is a fanboy? :rolleyes:

You don't the difference between the small notifications system and the giant OS? You should, as they are hugely different issues.

The Android fanboys won't get it.


Fanboys won't tell you, just like Apple fanboys will never admit that Android is better in some aspects (I repeat, SOME). But an educated and well informed adult will tell you that Apple, Google or whatever have done things worthy of credit. Apple has done great innovations that deserve credit, but so did other companies, including but not limited to Nokia, Google, RIM, Samsung, HTC, etc, etc etc. And Apple is partially responsible for what smartphone market is right now, just as Nokia's Elop said it before.

But it is clear that you are the type of a person that you described yourself.

Perhaps I am not what I seem. Try having some fun for a change. Or stay on your high horse.

ssk2
Jun 17, 2011, 02:16 PM
You don't the difference between the small notifications system and the giant OS? You should, as they are hugely different issues.

How can you argue this?

A notification system is just as big as any other part of an OS. Heck, the look of icons probably falls below the importance of an OS' notification system.

tekker
Jun 17, 2011, 02:18 PM
You don't the difference between the small notifications system and the giant OS? You should, as they are hugely different issues.

You don't know the difference between the small icons and the giant OS?

RawBert
Jun 17, 2011, 02:18 PM
That fake iPhone reminds me of these fake ass Jords. They may look similar but c'mon.

http://images.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/la-gear-mvp-jordan-4-02.jpg

It's apparent that Samsung was deliberately trying to make an iPhone knockoff.

erzhik
Jun 17, 2011, 02:18 PM
You don't the difference between the small notifications system and the giant OS? You should, as they are hugely different issues.

Notifications is a huge part of OS. If it was so small, why would Apple focus so much attention on improving their notifications system in iOS 5?

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 02:20 PM
As someone who's dabbled with design for the past 15 years (and gone to school for it to make sure you guys think my statement is credible) let me be the first to say this:

Apple's iOS grid UI is not only the most boring of all mobile devices, its also the least aesthetically pleasing.

HTC's Sense UI is far more attractive.

No, I'm not an Android/HTC fanboy, my current phone is a Nokia e71, before you guys make assumptions. Also, please refrain from ignorant Nokia bashing, as its been the cool thing to do on this forum lately.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 02:21 PM
You don't the difference between the small notifications system and the giant OS? You should, as they are hugely different issues.

Ok if the notification system is no big deal, than Samsung using a GRID for its icons shouldn't be a big deal either. I mean after all my Casio Pocket Organizer had the same layout in the 80's.

benthewraith
Jun 17, 2011, 02:22 PM
The Android fanboys won't get it.

Get what, that Apple is cherry-picking screenshots of the Galaxy S and saying that it looks like iOS?

iOS looks like Palm OS with the grid layout, and hell, the grid style came before that. But I guess that doesn't matter to you at all?

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 02:22 PM
Casio Pocket Organizer had the same layout in the 80's.

Apple should sue Casio.

dukeblue91
Jun 17, 2011, 02:23 PM
Apple copied an app called 'LockInfo'

http://www.lockinfo.net/

Image (http://www.lockinfo.net/LockInfo1.png)

vs Apple's

Image (http://www.smartkeitai.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/apple-ios5-notifications.jpg)

I'm so tired of hearing and reading that Apple copied this from Android.
" I know you did not say that wikus "

They did not copie it!
Apple actually went and hired the guy that made it for the Cydia store, big difference.

Lets also not forget where most of Androids ideas came from " Google CEO sitting on Apples board of directors ".
This was about as crappy and backstabbing as one can be.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 02:25 PM
So the problem with the android fanboys is that they seem to equate players in the industry incorporating some features the competition offers with outright copying on a grand scale. These people also seem to believe anyone agreeing with Apple's strong case against Samsung must believe all competitors are copying Apple.

This is not the case. Of course tablets are all going to be similar in some regard. But look at the playbook for instance. A quick glimpse of its OS shows some unique elements. RIM at least tried to add a bit of originality. It is a shame though that they have to rely on "Flash" support as an advertising gimmick. It is so lame and pointless. But Samsung blatantly copied Apple. There is no doubt about it. And they did it while doing business with Apple which is sad.

alexhooren
Jun 17, 2011, 02:26 PM
This is so ridiculous! Apple didn't invent the mobile phone. They didn't invent the touch screen. They did some fantastic work on making touch screen smart phones usable! In doing so, and since, they have borrowed from others and others have borrowed from them.

At the beginning of 2007, Apple announced the iPhone and Samsung announced the F700 - the announcements were less than a month apart (in other words there simply wasn't time to copy).

Both are rounded touch screen devices with a grid style icon layout.

Apple really need to accept they didn't invent everything!

The Samsung F700:

http://st.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/samsung-f700/gsmarena_001.jpg

(This from a long time Apple fan and iPhone user since 2008)

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 02:27 PM
The ones who are quick to say that everyone else has a problem are often the ones with problems themselves.

Considering how you shout down and call those who disagree with you stupid, I'd say you were talking more about yourself here than anyone else.

That's right. I go to Windows and Android forums everyday and harass them about why their experience is inferior and the manufacturers of the products they use are wrong and call them fanboys at the drop of a hat. :rolleyes:

Get real.

tekker
Jun 17, 2011, 02:28 PM
This is not the case. Of course tablets are all going to be similar in some regard. But look at the playbook for instance. A quick glimpse of its OS shows some unique elements. RIM at least tried to add a bit of originality. It is a shame though that they have to rely on "Flash" support as an advertising gimmick. It is so lame and pointless. But Samsung blatantly copied Apple. There is no doubt about it. And they did it while doing business with Apple which is sad.

Okay, hotshot. How does the Galaxy Tab 10.1 blatantly copy Apple?

yg17
Jun 17, 2011, 02:28 PM
You don't the difference between the small notifications system and the giant OS? You should, as they are hugely different issues.

The entire purpose of a smart phone is to receive not only calls, but texts, e-mails, notifications from applications, etc. The notification system is an integral part of a smartphone. It's not like Apple copied some obscure feature hardly anyone ever uses. The notification system is nearly as giant as the OS itself.

rosalindavenue
Jun 17, 2011, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=Mad Man;12777379]Hmm, I don't remember that those had a touch screen and that you controlled the UI by using your finger on the screen .... seems I'm getting old and my memory is failing me[/QUOTE

Could be. I never used my stylus on the Clie-- I used my fingers. It was a capacitive screen so more accurately I used my fingernail.

yg17
Jun 17, 2011, 02:30 PM
So the problem with the android fanboys is that they seem to equate players in the industry incorporating some features the competition offers with outright copying on a grand scale. These people also seem to believe anyone agreeing with Apple's strong case against Samsung must believe all competitors are copying Apple.

This is not the case. Of course tablets are all going to be similar in some regard. But look at the playbook for instance. A quick glimpse of its OS shows some unique elements. RIM at least tried to add a bit of originality. It is a shame though that they have to rely on "Flash" support as an advertising gimmick. It is so lame and pointless. But Samsung blatantly copied Apple. There is no doubt about it. And they did it while doing business with Apple which is sad.

Here's a picture of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 from Samsung's own site:

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1/images/img_main_product.png

Please tell me how, in any way, shape or form, that resembles iOS on the iPad? It doesn't.

njchris
Jun 17, 2011, 02:32 PM
I think their big mistake was pretty much photocopying the home screen and layout of iOS.

Also, as the other poster points out. See it in person and it could easily be mistaken for an iPhone.

Samsung should just change the UI design of the OS and end this.

Those pics are NOT of the samsung home screen. The actual home screen does not look like the iphone other than having a dock at the bottom.

That pic shows what appears when you tap the applications button to show your apps... So just walking into a store and looking at the home screens will NOT look like an iPhone.

tekmoe
Jun 17, 2011, 02:34 PM
lmao. What's wrong Apple? Getting scared? Android is laying the smack down and Apple knows it. hahahahaha

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 02:34 PM
Those pics are NOT of the samsung home screen. The actual home screen does not look like the iphone other than having a dock at the bottom.

That pic shows what appears when you tap the applications button to show your apps... So just walking into a store and looking at the home screens will NOT look like an iPhone.

This is true.

benthewraith
Jun 17, 2011, 02:35 PM
So the problem with the android fanboys is that they seem to equate players in the industry incorporating some features the competition offers with outright copying on a grand scale. These people also seem to believe anyone agreeing with Apple's strong case against Samsung must believe all competitors are copying Apple.

This is not the case. Of course tablets are all going to be similar in some regard. But look at the playbook for instance. A quick glimpse of its OS shows some unique elements. RIM at least tried to add a bit of originality. It is a shame though that they have to rely on "Flash" support as an advertising gimmick. It is so lame and pointless. But Samsung blatantly copied Apple. There is no doubt about it. And they did it while doing business with Apple which is sad.

RIM has a grid layout on its Playbook organized by media, games, utilities, etc. It even has the same WiFi icon as used in Mac OS X, with a bar at the top in the same location.

http://photos.macnn.com/news/1012/blackberryplaybook-tablifelg1.jpg

Furthermore, as has been pointed out, Apple is using a cherry-picked screenshot of the samsung galaxy S ui as a justification for a lawsuit.

http://i.imgur.com/OhrJx.jpg

It doesn't look anywhere close to like that. Unless you add app icons to the desktop.

AaronEdwards
Jun 17, 2011, 02:37 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/534.32 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)



What I don't understand is where devices like the Nexus S fit in. Stock Android, curved screen, no bezel... The Nexus s looks different to me.

Maybe the iPhone isn't selling as well as Apple would want it to.

yg17
Jun 17, 2011, 02:38 PM
With the way that Android lets you customize your home screens, you can make it look like a grid of icons like iOS, or you can make it look completely different. Full control is yours. Apple is just cherry picking screenshots.

The only part of my Android phone that resembles anything in iOS is the notification system, which I had first :p

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 02:48 PM
This is the absurd couching of the argument people make when they come here to "debate" the issue of Apple's creativity.
1. They claim people who support Apple in this case must believe Apple created everything that went into their products.
2. They then turn it into individual battles about who designed what element first.

Unfortunately too many people get roped into accepting this is what the argument is about. The truth is that Apple deserves a lot of credit for assembling ideas (some of their own and some general industry principles) into new products. The argument most of us make who believe Apple deserves credit for this, is that they stick their necks out when they do this because they do not just do a small run and see if it catches on. They decide this is the new product and get behind it. The iphone and ipad were great successes and while they were not the first of their kind, they did establish the expectations of the consumer.

So if you want to get rammed into some tit for tat about who brought feature X out first be my guest. I don't bother because I can see the set up right away. I am not going to claim Apple invented every feature of their products. But I am going to argue that the smart phone and tablet markets are what they are because of Apple. If someone doesn't agree then so be it. What can I or anyone say to make someone give Apple credit?

And I'm certainly not going to waste time with people who drop "apple fanboy" in their first post on a thread. It is funny that these people demand a response to their couched argument after starting with an insult. LOL



Apple's been doing the industry's R&D since 2007. I'll give them a pass on the Android issue. Google had it coming.

And Samsung's been infringing for quite some time now.

You know when you are getting under some people's skin when certain things happen. One poster said he put you on the ignore list. LOL. One of the people I described above.

f00f
Jun 17, 2011, 02:57 PM
Apple's been ripped off consistently, regularly, blatantly since June 2007, and they've been rather kind about it up until recently.

Fair play by Apple. Karma's a bitch.

I don't think fairness or karma have anything to do with it.

In 2007 they didn't have a substantial case. Now they do. Now it's time for them to claim the megabucks! And I'm sure the success of the past few years, coupled with all these imitations, have done wonders for Apple egos. After all, imitation is the highest form of flattery, is it not? ;)

yg17
Jun 17, 2011, 02:58 PM
And I'm certainly not going to waste time with people who drop "apple fanboy" in their first post on a thread. It is funny that these people demand a response to their couched argument after starting with an insult. LOL

Strong words coming from someone who's thrown around the fanboy insult before:

The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

The rare appearance of OS X malware is always good fun for the MS fanboy.

Yes we are all doomed to suffer waves of malware any day now...

Another fanboy remark? ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Show us something original if you can.

Give me a break. For you to admit RIM phones lose bars too would be sacrilege. Stop drinking the RIM koolaid fanboy.

Another RIM fanboy.

Droid fanboys are a weird bunch. They lose bars but complain about the iphone. And who is getting a free bumper?

The droid will be history in 5 years like the razor is now. The iphone will still be with us.

Lame

You have one of those phones that isn't faulty. Just like many iphone 4 owners. But that isn't what this is all about. It's about blowing the problems of each phone way out of proportion. Now the droid users are behaving like a bunch of fanboys because they can't handle it. Waaaa.

Poor baby. The droid fanboys can't handle the truth.

In 5 years, the manufacturer of droid will still be around, but the droid will be history. There will be some new name for the phone to get you excited but the iphone product line will still be here.

This is something for the webOs "fanboys", to borrow their words.

The Windows fanboys can't help themselves I guess. They just want to come here and bitch about everything.

I posted the other day that I wondered whether this malware was related to some of the current malware on Windows. Of course a bunch of Windows fanboys rated that negative as though that wasn't a legitimate consideration.

Turns out MS thinks it is possible.

Microsoft Links Fake Mac AV to Windows Scareware Gang (http://www.pcworld.com/article/228280/microsoft_links_fake_mac_av_to_windows_scareware_gang.html?tk=rel_news)

Grow up.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 03:01 PM
Strong words coming from someone who's thrown around the fanboy insult before:

Grow up.


Omnipwned.

benthewraith
Jun 17, 2011, 03:07 PM
This is the absurd couching of the argument people make when they come here to "debate" the issue of Apple's creativity.
1. They claim people who support Apple in this case must believe Apple created everything that went into their products.
2. They then turn it into individual battles about who designed what element first.

Unfortunately too many people get roped into accepting this is what the argument is about. The truth is that Apple deserves a lot of credit for assembling ideas (some of their own and some general industry principles) into new products. The argument most of us make who believe Apple deserves credit for this, is that they stick their necks out when they do this because they do not just do a small run and see if it catches on. They decide this is the new product and get behind it. The iphone and ipad were great successes and while they were not the first of their kind, they did establish the expectations of the consumer.

So if you want to get rammed into some tit for tat about who brought feature X out first be my guest. I don't bother because I can see the set up right away. I am not going to claim Apple invented every feature of their products. But I am going to argue that the smart phone and tablet markets are what they are because of Apple. If someone doesn't agree then so be it. What can I or anyone say to make someone give Apple credit?

And I'm certainly not going to waste time with people who drop "apple fanboy" in their first post on a thread. It is funny that these people demand a response to their couched argument after starting with an insult. LOL





You know when you are getting under some people's skin when certain things happen. One poster said he put you on the ignore list. LOL. One of the people I described above.

Seems like you're now dancing around the issue instead of addressing the issue. The issue is whether or not the Touch interface looks like iOS. Apple is disseminating a cherry picked screenshot that makes it look kinda similar to iOS and saying that it WILL cause consumer confusion, which is a weak argument as people are rational enough to look at packaging, the big giant Samsung stamped across the top, or the fact the phones don't look as similar as people like you state.

The backs don't look anything like any model of the iPhone, the sides don't look anything like the iPhone and the front looks only marginally, and any consumer confusion that might occur would be instantly cleared up by the giant Samsung stamped at the top.

Then there's the onscreen UI. Again, a cherry picked screenshot of the UI by Apple.

All Apple is doing is ******** on their parts manufacturer that's putting out a competing phone for presumably less than the cost of the iPhone and cherry picking screenshots of the phone as examples that they've copied Apple.

And their evidence: grid layout and the color of the phone button, never mind that Apple was not the first to color the phone button green and is common across almost all brands of phones.

pepitko
Jun 17, 2011, 03:12 PM
I'm with Apple on this one. The phones and tablets of Apple and Samsung look so similar that many people are very likely to mistake one for another. Or in another words, Samsung is clearly copying Apple to create similar or almost the same products to monetize the wave of popularity of iPhones and iPads.

aslucher
Jun 17, 2011, 03:17 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

So I don't comment very often but boy do I read. Let me just add my two cents as this is getting pretty funny.

I'd like to point out that everyone copies everyone, to a certain degree. Apple took older ideas and tried to change the phone to be more like a computer. That's old. They added touch and did a phenomenal job designing. This isn't news, and is shown by their sales.

Google wanted the same thing but a more broad spectrum, allowing each hardware company to customize the core OS to their respectable devices. This in theory is amazing. But in my opinion can create fragmentation, whatever.

What Samsung did was copy the entire look and feel of the iPhone. I mean c'mon you guys are seeming to forget that Apple brought Samsung's marketing to the table. The ad looks like Apple's.

Apple did not copy Android's look and feel with iOS5. They are pushing an evolutionary improvement. Yes the notifications may be just like the Android but it's also similar to WebOS' notification system. They are actually leveling the playing field. To me Android users should say dang, about time and shutup. It happens. Instead let's focus on why iOS5 will still be a selling point BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE LIKE HOW APPLE OPERATES. I don't buy Apple phones cuz they sometimes work for me. They are powerful devices and I like how they look. Over Android.

Android fanboys just leave. Why are you posting worthless crap? I read your forums but feel no need to bash every new "inspirational" phone model that comes out 2 months AFTER I just read the review for the now out dated model.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 03:20 PM
That fake iPhone reminds me of these fake ass Jords. They may look similar but c'mon.

http://images.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/la-gear-mvp-jordan-4-02.jpg

It's apparent that Samsung was deliberately trying to make an iPhone knockoff.

LA Gears were freaking amazing.

As stated before the screen Apple is showing is not how the phone looks out of the box. Out of the box the phone has multiple widgets on the home screen. Thats the difference an Android phone can be anything it wants. The iPhone will always just be the iPhone.

f00f
Jun 17, 2011, 03:31 PM
Here's a picture of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 from Samsung's own site:

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1/images/img_main_product.png

Please tell me how, in any way, shape or form, that resembles iOS on the iPad? It doesn't.

+1.

I have a white 16GB 10.1 tab sitting next to me. Having used iOS since the first gen iPod Touch, up to and including iPad 2, I can say that Android 3.1 doesn't at all "feel" like iOS. Great, sure, the screen has icons arranged in various pages. And Windows has a desktop, with icons, just like OS X. :rolleyes:

The 10.1 does indeed "feel", physically, like an iPad. It even looks like it, complete with the one-inch black border. (BTW, the border does not have the Samsung name stamped on it as shown in that picture.) Maybe Samsung should've made the border white or green or purple or otherwise non-black to differentiate themselves from competitors. Seriously, what other form factor would a tablet have so as to not look like a competitor? Triangular? Spherical? Ugh.

benthewraith
Jun 17, 2011, 03:33 PM
+1.

I have a white 16GB 10.1 tab sitting next to me. Having used iOS since the first gen iPod Touch, up to and including iPad 2, I can say that Android 3.1 doesn't at all "feel" like iOS. Great, sure, the screen has icons arranged in various pages. And Windows has a desktop, with icons, just like OS X. :rolleyes:

The 10.1 does indeed "feel", physically, like an iPad. It even looks like it, complete with the one-inch black border. (BTW, the border does not have the Samsung name stamped on it as shown in that picture.) Maybe Samsung should've made the border white or green or purple or otherwise non-black. Seriously, what other form factor would a tablet have so as to not look like a competitor? Triangular? Spherical? Ugh.

Apple would still have sued if it were white.

Tarzanman
Jun 17, 2011, 03:40 PM
The problem isn't that Samsung is mimicking the look of the iphone.... that has been done to death already by many other manufacturers.

The problem is that Samsung is mimicking the look of the iPhone *AND*
1. They have the distribution network in place to out-sell Apple
2. Their devices offer more features
3. Their devices are usually cheaper than Apple's.

A lost iphone sale isn't just $200-$300... it is another customer who doesn't get locked in to the Apple ecosystem.

Apple knows that they flat out cannot compete in the feature department. The Android OEMs just have too much combined capacity and brain-power. Apple's only hope is what has always helped them move products... marketing and differentiation their product from the rest of the bunch.

Samsung's similar looking devices are taking away that edge. They are coming at Apple HARD, and Apple knows that they are at a competitive disadvantage to a huge conglomerate like Samsung that can almost build complete phones entirely using Samsung-manufactured components (screens, memory, processors, almost everything).

At the end of the day, I don't think that Apple is looking to put a stop to Samsung. Big companies that sue each other over patent issues usually work out deals. I think that Apple is looking for some kind of leverage to use against Samsung where they currently have none.

Maybe they want a sweetheart deal on components or licenses for Super AMOLED+ displays.... who knows. Personally, I'd like to see Apple lose this suit. Maybe if the heat gets turned on they will start innovating again instead of calling other manufacturers copycats 4 months before they steal those same manufacturers' features.

ratzzo
Jun 17, 2011, 03:45 PM
Some of the smartphones Apple included in that list don't have anything in similar to the iPhone. For example, the Nexus S. No rows like the iPhone, curved glass, different size, ... what? :confused:

Glideslope
Jun 17, 2011, 03:45 PM
I gotta admit that does look like a bad Chinese iPhone clone right there....

More likely a bad Korean iPhone Clone.

Pain Samsung Mobile, Pain. :apple:

macnisse
Jun 17, 2011, 03:48 PM
What the hey, the Galaxy I can understand, but all the other ones... hmm, will be interesting to follow this process

Kwill
Jun 17, 2011, 03:48 PM
Actually, the iPhone Galaxy looks sweet!

DanteMann
Jun 17, 2011, 03:51 PM
It's clear that people who blindly follow Apple will see things in Apple's favour regardless of anything. We all just read how Apple LOST to Nokia. But did the Apple followers see it that way? Of course not. They spun it as if Apple won. When a company like Apple "settles" and at the same time they are on the shorter side of that settlement, it just means they failed at trying to get away with something that they didn't want to pay for. And again, none of the blind Apple followers had anything to say about it, other than, Apple came out on top, and made smart business moves. Apple just finished raping Android's notification, and again, the Apple loyalist completely came out saying how great it is with absolutely no credit to Android. All they while they truly believe Samsung is not a leading innovator in the tech world. It's utterly laughable. So no matter how much FACT you introduce, it's being presented to the blind.

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 03:51 PM
I don't think fairness or karma have anything to do with it.

In 2007 they didn't have a substantial case. Now they do. Now it's time for them to claim the megabucks! And I'm sure the success of the past few years, coupled with all these imitations, have done wonders for Apple egos. After all, imitation is the highest form of flattery, is it not? ;)

Well that's just it, isn't it?

Apple's always been litigious and has always been very particular about their IP. This is nothing new. This wasn't done out of fear or worry. This is Apple. They are the ones who tend to cause fear and worry. This hasn't changed. They have their respective markets locked up. The iPhone will continue to sell in record numbers, and the tablet market is looking increasingly like the iPod market.

What's changed this time is that Apple waited. They waited until everyone else had full pipelines of products, until everyone else was fully committed to their roadmaps. Now the parties in hot water are left saying, "wtf are we supposed to do after all this time?? What are we going to do, now that we're fully committed to these designs??"

Genius, Apple. Sheer genius.


It's clear that people who blindly follow Apple will see things in Apple's favour regardless of anything. We all just read how Apple LOST to Nokia.

Lost? How? We don't know the details of the deal between Apple and Nokia. Apple was holding out for the same price that Nokia charged everyone else.

We don't know whether they ended up getting the deal they wanted. Apple and everyone else knew they had to pay Nokia at some point. There was never any getting around that. You create a modern smartphone today, you'll have no choice but to use Nokia's IP. These are wireless standards that can't be avoided. There is really no way not to enter into an agreement with Nokia. The question, however, is for how much.

Glideslope
Jun 17, 2011, 03:51 PM
The android fanboys will tell you Apple has done nothing worthy of any credit. I think they want everyone doing things the way they do them and so they have to lash out at every opportunity. I hope they get help soon.

Only an android fanboy would fail to see what Samsung has done.

Android users need to be watching the Nokia/WIN7 Mobile arrival. Going to put the hurt on Android more than iOS ever will. :cool:

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 17, 2011, 03:51 PM
Some of the smartphones Apple included in that list don't have anything in similar to the iPhone. For example, the Nexus S. No rows like the iPhone, curved glass, different size, ... what? :confused:

Thats whats throws the credibility out the window on this for me. Its just Apple trying to be the school yard bully again.

wikus
Jun 17, 2011, 03:55 PM
When is apple going to support flash, divx, and other standard OPTIONS on the iphone?

Does steve jobs still believe in choice, or are those days gone (if they ever existed)?

Glideslope
Jun 17, 2011, 03:56 PM
Thats whats throws the credibility out the window on this for me. Its just Apple trying to be the school yard bully again.

LOL, you point is what? So they are different than Google, Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Exxon/Mobile, Samsung, Lodsys, HTC, Tyson Chicken, The American Beef Association, and finally Ben and Jerry's!

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 03:56 PM
Strong words coming from someone who's thrown around the fanboy insult before:



Grow up.

Aw I upset you. Sorry.

Thanks for your "research" though. LOL

Yes I do like to get the "apple fanboy" hurlers all worked up don't I. I even got you to spend some time researching my posts. Now run along and ignore me before I teach you some more lessons.

Oh and thanks for making your avatar similar to mine. Another positive feedback.

Lennholm
Jun 17, 2011, 03:57 PM
No, no one cared because it was JUNK.

Then again, a lot of junk doesn't seem to have an Apple logo on it.

See any connections?

As if you have any experience with that phone apart from seeing the photo of it on these forums.
It baffles me how people can become so religiously devoted to a COMPANY that they simply categorically dismiss everything made by another company.
I don't bash Samsung even though I only have one experience with them, a bad one with the most worthless phone I have ever held in my hand (no, not one of those mentioned here).
Alot of people seem very satisfied with their Samsung phones, and recently I've even heard Galaxy S2 owners talk about their phone the same way iPhone owners do, you know, "I didn't think it was possible to fall in love with a phone but I have" and so on

kiljoy616
Jun 17, 2011, 03:57 PM
Sorry but apple is stretching if that those phones look the same they just don't.

wordoflife
Jun 17, 2011, 03:58 PM
They even bothered calling out the Sidekick :confused:

BC2009
Jun 17, 2011, 03:58 PM
Not going after Samsung isnt even an option for Apple, patent holders by law, must pursue those who infringe if they want to keep their patent rights, or at least thats what i remember from college.

Not true. You can decline to enforce your patents and not lose them so long as you pay the maintenance. You cannot, however, decline to enforce your trademarks and expect to be able to enforce them later. Trademarks must be actively enforced and protected. This case is about "trade dress" which deals with confusing customers, design patents, and some engineering patents. Nilay Patel over at This is my next did a great analysis (http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/) of the lawsuit -- it is certainly worth the read.

If you've got a Mac, hold down CTRL, CMD & D and hover the mouse cursor over the word. All will be revealed. :)

Wow -- I never knew this. This rocks.

My wife's cousin works for Samsung. The last time I visited Korea:

Me: "Look what I got!"
I show off my newest (then) iPhone 3G.

My wife's cousin: "Well, look what I got!"
He brings out what appeared to be a prototype Samsung touchscreen phone with iOS loaded on it. That's right, iOS.

Apparently this is what they do.

Hillarious. This is right in line with "trade dress" lawsuits since it is about squashing folks who try to create knock-offs.

God I love fanboys....

Apple use an identical notification system to Android? No problem.
Apple use a identical messaging system to RIM? Excellent.

Samsung use a green phone icon to represent the phone app? OMGGGGZZ LAW SUIT!!!?!1

Do you not see the irony?

This topic has been done to death and is clearly not as simple as the fanboys make out. This is clear by the fact that the case(s) continue to rumble on, with no sign of resolution.

The irony I see the most is that Android completely ripped off tons of things from iOS and the one thing that Apple took back was notifications. I think that makes the score like 5000 to 1. However, I think there is a reason that the iOS notifications look so much like Android and not like WebOS. The guy who developed the WebOS notifications now works for Apple. Palm filed patent applications on some of his work. Further, by jumping ship to Apple and creating the same system for them or something based on the patents held by HP would make Apple liable. I think they copied Android because HP locked up too much IP in the area of something better and the Android stuff had no protection around it.

As far as RIM, I really don't see why folks give them so much credit for messaging. Messaging was around before RIM -- they just put it on a smartphone and locked it in to a proprietary network of RIM devices. Return receipts and delivery acknowledgement are cool and RIM is the first to do them in a smart phone, but not the first to do them. Certainly Apple did not innovate here, but they followed in RIM's footsteps for copying the innovation that came before them and trying to implement it in a successful way.

I am not a lawyer, but if I recall correctly, it is not illegal to copy the look-and-feel of another product unless you can prove that it will create real confusion among consumers, creating a potential for fraud. Although it is in bad taste for Samsung to copy Apple, I don't think that alone is grounds for a lawsuit.

What will be interesting is whether there is merit in Apple's patents.

Check out Nilay Patel's piece (http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/) over at This is my next.

Have any of actual seen some of these devices? Why are stock android devices on the list? Why is this suit against the phones and not the UI?
.....


You are right about those devices -- they look nothing like Apple's. But I do not believe Apple is naming those devices for "trade dress" or "design patent" violations. Those must be in regard to some of the engineering patents in the lawsuit (and they just added more patents to the list).

Thats the thing. Apple is showing you a picture of the Galaxy looking like an iPhone, they aren't showing you the screen with Widgets and other Android specific features such as the Notification Sy... oops... let me guess iPhone didn't copy Android Notification system thats right. My bad.

Samsung copied the main screen of the device -- the home screen. See above for my thoughts on the Android notification copying. The score is still Google-rip-offs-of-Apple: 5000 / Apple-rip-offs-of-Google: 1. I think the Android lovers are going to screaming "they copied our notifications" until the end of the earth. But seriously, they had limited options based on who they hired to design them and HP-owned intellectual property issues.

This isn't a patent claim, which hinges on similarities in HOW they work. This is a trademark claim,which hinges on the potential for consumer confusion. The look and feel is what is relevant in a trademark or, more accurately in this case, trade dress case.

It's both "trade dress" and "patent" (no actual trademarks are named as far as I know).

How do you guys, particularly the fanboys, feel about Apple copying others?

Google is still in the lead with the number of rip-offs. Apple needs to get off their butts and steal more of Google's ideas. :)

ufwa
Jun 17, 2011, 03:59 PM
Thats whats throws the credibility out the window on this for me. Its just Apple trying to be the school yard bully again.

No the nexus S one isn't even close to funny.

They included in the list, the Samsung Replenish.

It looks like a blackberry. how anyone can say they thought it was an iphone is beyond me. I guess some lawyers and politicians who are used to lying all the time might be able to make that claim.

ten-oak-druid
Jun 17, 2011, 04:01 PM
Seems like you're now dancing around the issue instead of addressing the issue. The issue is whether or not the Touch interface looks like iOS. Apple is disseminating a cherry picked screenshot that makes it look kinda similar to iOS and saying that it WILL cause consumer confusion, which is a weak argument as people are rational enough to look at packaging, the big giant Samsung stamped across the top, or the fact the phones don't look as similar as people like you state.

The backs don't look anything like any model of the iPhone, the sides don't look anything like the iPhone and the front looks only marginally, and any consumer confusion that might occur would be instantly cleared up by the giant Samsung stamped at the top.

Then there's the onscreen UI. Again, a cherry picked screenshot of the UI by Apple.

All Apple is doing is ******** on their parts manufacturer that's putting out a competing phone for presumably less than the cost of the iPhone and cherry picking screenshots of the phone as examples that they've copied Apple.

And their evidence: grid layout and the color of the phone button, never mind that Apple was not the first to color the phone button green and is common across almost all brands of phones.

What can I tell you. I see Samsung's product line as strong copies of Apple. I don't get the same feeling from other tablet manufacturers. For myself it is the combination of the hardware plus UI. It is a matter of opinion I guess. And nothing we say will change each other's opinion.

benthewraith
Jun 17, 2011, 04:03 PM
Aw I upset you. Sorry.

Thanks for your "research" though. LOL

Yes I do like to get the "apple fanboy" hurlers all worked up don't I. I even got you to spend some time researching my posts. Now run along and ignore me before I teach you some more lessons.

Somehow I don't think anyone is scared of some troll's lessons.

Lennholm
Jun 17, 2011, 04:05 PM
The problem isn't that Samsung is mimicking the look of the iphone.... that has been done to death already by many other manufacturers.

The problem is that Samsung is mimicking the look of the iPhone *AND*
1. They have the distribution network in place to out-sell Apple
2. Their devices offer more features
3. Their devices are usually cheaper than Apple's.

A lost iphone sale isn't just $200-$300... it is another customer who doesn't get locked in to the Apple ecosystem.

Apple knows that they flat out cannot compete in the feature department. The Android OEMs just have too much combined capacity and brain-power. Apple's only hope is what has always helped them move products... marketing and differentiation their product from the rest of the bunch.

Samsung's similar looking devices are taking away that edge. They are coming at Apple HARD, and Apple knows that they are at a competitive disadvantage to a huge conglomerate like Samsung that can almost build complete phones entirely using Samsung-manufactured components (screens, memory, processors, almost everything).

At the end of the day, I don't think that Apple is looking to put a stop to Samsung. Big companies that sue each other over patent issues usually work out deals. I think that Apple is looking for some kind of leverage to use against Samsung where they currently have none.

Maybe they want a sweetheart deal on components or licenses for Super AMOLED+ displays.... who knows. Personally, I'd like to see Apple lose this suit. Maybe if the heat gets turned on they will start innovating again instead of calling other manufacturers copycats 4 months before they steal those same manufacturers' features.

Sounds like regular old free market kapitalism going on to me

Lennholm
Jun 17, 2011, 04:23 PM
Apple just paid Nokia a ridiculous amount of money for things that should never have been patentable

You don't think Nokias patents should've been!? Nokia holds patents on important parts of GSM technology, patents they bought from Ericsson who spent lots of money researching and inventing it. This is the purpose of patents, to give inventors an incentive to even bother.

Phil Schiller
Jun 17, 2011, 04:27 PM
Don't take something without permission. Simple as that.

kdarling
Jun 17, 2011, 04:43 PM
Not going after Samsung isnt even an option for Apple, patent holders by law, must pursue those who infringe if they want to keep their patent rights, or at least thats what i remember from college.

You're think of trademarks. Patents don't have such a requirement.

Lets also not forget where most of Androids ideas came from " Google CEO sitting on Apples board of directors ".
This was about as crappy and backstabbing as one can be.

Not likely. Barely anyone at Apple knew about the iPhone ahead of time. It's extremely doubtful they would've shown the Google CEO.

Especially since Jobs must've known that Google had bought Android Inc back in 2005 to create a phone. This is long before the iPhone project began in earnest.

I am not going to claim Apple invented every feature of their products. But I am going to argue that the smart phone and tablet markets are what they are because of Apple.

Umm, yes but with an important addendum:

It took many years of expensive R&D by all the companies that came before Apple, to get the smartphone parts and cell infrastructure in place for Apple to take advantage of, as a Johnny-come-lately with no legacy devices to support.

Without all those other companies' hard work, there could be no iPhone. Apple was smart to wait until the time was ripe, but they get no credit for setting up the basic playing field or taking risks.

HangmanSwingset
Jun 17, 2011, 04:56 PM
I have evidence that it's a blatant ripoff right next to me.
I showed my fiance (who knows almost nothing about tech of any sort) the picture of the iPhone 3GS, and asked her what kind of phone it was.
"iPhone"
I showed her the picture of the Samsung phone in question.
"iPho... Wait..."

HiRez
Jun 17, 2011, 05:14 PM
All they have to do is show pictures of what Samsung's phones looked like before the iPhone. It's pretty obvious. Still, while IANAL, I can't help but feel Apple is going to have a hard time proving their case here such that they receive a settlement or an order to block Samsung from selling their phones. These "look and feel" lawsuits never seem to come out well.

KnightWRX
Jun 17, 2011, 05:24 PM
Strong words coming from someone who's thrown around the fanboy insult before:

http://www.clubnientiendo.com/images/revistas/fotos_revistas/ultracombo.jpg

:eek:

benthewraith
Jun 17, 2011, 06:12 PM
Shame with all Apples money they cant come up with original ideas. They just keep stealing other peoples ideas :(
Great new feature in Lion FULL SCREEN APPS! OMG!

Wasn't Apple a few years ago bashing full screen apps saying they impaired productivity rather than enhance productivity?

*LTD*
Jun 17, 2011, 06:20 PM
Shame with all Apples money they cant come up with original ideas. They just keep stealing other peoples ideas :(
Great new feature in Lion FULL SCREEN APPS! OMG!

Yeah, they only created the blueprint for the entire smartphone industry today. Then they went on to create the blueprint for mobile computing with the iPad. Plus App Store, apps, etc. Now they're bringing us into the Post-PC era and everyone else is struggling to follow.

Nearly everything meaningful to the consumer in the mobile industry today can be traced back to Apple in one way or the other. If it weren't for them the mobile landscape would look *completely* different today, probably for the worse, judging by what was going on pre-iPhone.

When you do get your HTC Sensation, say "Thank you, Apple." And then enjoy.

cirus
Jun 17, 2011, 06:30 PM
I have evidence that it's a blatant ripoff right next to me.
I showed my fiance (who knows almost nothing about tech of any sort) the picture of the iPhone 3GS, and asked her what kind of phone it was.
"iPhone"
I showed her the picture of the Samsung phone in question.
"iPho... Wait..."

Good, how about you let her actually feel the phones. :rolleyes: She will notice that they are not that similar.

LOL to using cherry picked images.

It is a fact that the first thing that the human brain recognizes about an object is its size/shape and colour. Both phones have the same colour and shape and so they will look similar, regardless of how the device is rearranged.

Karnivore
Jun 17, 2011, 06:34 PM
Yeah, they only created the blueprint for the entire smartphone industry today. Then they went on to create the blueprint for mobile computing with the iPad. Plus App Store, apps, etc. Now they're bringing us into the Post-PC era and everyone else is struggling to follow.

Nearly everything meaningful to the consumer in the mobile industry today can be traced back to Apple in one way or the other. If it weren't for them the mobile landscape would look *completely* different today, probably for the worse, judging by what was going on pre-iPhone.

When you do get your HTC Sensation, say "Thank you, Apple." And then enjoy.

Umm.. no Mobile market "blueprint", as you call it, was created by three other companies: Nokia, Handspring, and Palm. I hope HP is watching because if Apple wins against Samsung, then HP should take on Apple for stealing from Palm. After all Apple clearly imitated Palm's interface.

As a side note, I find it hilarious that Apple now also includes Infuse in the suit. Clearly it's the case of "penis envy"; Apple wishes they had a phone like Infuse.

ratzzo
Jun 17, 2011, 06:35 PM
To all of those saying Apple cherry-picked those images: I agree.

However, if you were the one suing, you'd darned made sure the pictures looked as similar as you could! Look what happened with Nokia. 648 million now and another ridiculous amount of millions later ;)

stevensr123
Jun 17, 2011, 07:45 PM
The hard ware doesn't even look the ****in same, what do you expect samsung to do? Make a triangle phone or something?

It has a bigger screen, totally different home button, touch sensitive buttons, made of plastic, different shade of black, all the buttons are different etc

The software is very similar though, in the sense it has a wall of apps but that's about it.

caspersoong
Jun 17, 2011, 08:39 PM
Apple is definitely in the right here. Samsung should really stop their blatant copying asap. Samsung is really irritating here in this country because I see all their cheap rip-offs everywhere.

KnightWRX
Jun 17, 2011, 08:56 PM
Earlier reply I did. Apple is going to have an uphill battle here :


That one ? You're sure :

http://www.vandegoor.com/beta/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Final_Samsung_Galaxy_S_Front_Side_Back.jpg.jpg

Oops, different angles tell a different story. From the side, no similarity. From the back, no similarity. Do I need to go into details here ?

From the front ? Only if you believe the bevel is actually chrome and not blackish. It's also a different shape (it's not flush with the screen like the 3GS's and 3G's bevel). The home button is quite different and there are 2 extra capacitive buttons on the front. Not to mention the big SAMSUNG right there... It's also much bigger than the iPhone :

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zt80y-ElS5k/TM4cAMeXAPI/AAAAAAAACmE/hNPGUgDeIco/s1600/Samsung+Galaxy+S+i9000_1.JPG

The UI is the same ? Not really :

http://www.mymobiles.com/mobile-phones-photos/3091/1/samsung-galaxy-s-i9000-16gb-extralarge.jpg

Where's the icon grid ? Notice also the page indicators, while round and in a line, they are completely different from iOS. This is the homescreen, no icon grid there. Only a dock with widgets. Sure can't confuse that with iOS...

Again, if you go outside the media hype on this story, you can see this isn't going to be an easy win for Apple. And the Samsung Galaxy S i9000 is only 1 model of Samsung Galaxy S line-up, the other phones are quite different and if you mistake them for iPhones, I have bad news for you :

Epic :

http://www.userguidemanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/SamsungGalaxySEpic4GSPHD700ManualUserGuidePDF.jpg

Fascinate :

http://www.miltonetto.net/images/Verizon-Samsung-Galaxy-S-Fascinate.jpg

Captivate :

http://tehgeek.com/storage/post-images/galaxy-s-captivate.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1289666155637

Vibrant (this is the only other model based on the i9000) :

http://www.hardwaresphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/samsung-vibrant-galaxy-s-phone.jpg

So please guys, again, go beyond the Apple cherry picked evidence pictures go and try to look at this objectively. This isn't the blatant copying it's made out to be.


Let's now add the Nexus S, again, looks nothing like the iPhone, and again, no icon grid on the Home screen :

http://cdn2.onlygizmos.com/content/2010/12/google-nexus-s.jpg

Now this one is a total mystery. The Infuse 4G ? Really ? It doesn't even have a "Home button" centered on the bottom :

http://gadgetwidgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Samsung-Infuse-4G-images.jpg

But I guess Apple can even outdo themselves in ridiculousness. The Replenish ? Really ?

http://www.sharedgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Sprint-Samsung-Replenish-Android-green-phone.jpg

None of those make sense. Heck, again, the initial complaint about the "hardware" being a "blatant copy" is quite subjective and depends very much on the model and angle you look at it from. This is far from won from Apple.

As for icon trademarks, kdarling made 2 splendid posts about them, I can only this one though :

In this case, the argument is reversed. For the phone icon, Apple employed a commonly used shape and color that users could easily recognize. If anyone wants to argue that a company could've used a different shape or color, then Apple should be high on their complaint list.

Starting with the first giant handset, nearly every cell phone since has used a green phone emblem. Heck, HTC and Palm both used a left leaning green phone on their Send keys for years before the iPhone came along:
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287537&d=1306882440

Translate that key to a touchscreen, and the most reasonable thing to do is make it a green button with a white icon. As you can see below, in fact that was done in at least one example back in 2004 on Windows Mobile.

What I find more interesting is that Apple first demoed the iPhone in Jan 2007 using the all green icon below. But they did not try to trademark that one, probably because it was obvious and already used. Instead, they trademarked a version with background stripes on it, something quite different from what everyone else used, including Samsung.
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287536&d=1306882440

kdarling
Jun 17, 2011, 08:57 PM
I have evidence that it's a blatant ripoff right next to me.
I showed my fiance (who knows almost nothing about tech of any sort) the picture of the iPhone 3GS, and asked her what kind of phone it was.
"iPhone"
I showed her the picture of the Samsung phone in question.
"iPho... Wait..."

Casual viewing doesn't matter.

The court case will hinge on whether or not a normal customer would be confused when actually buying the product.

The shape and icons themselves aren't a great case, because they express functionality common to smartphones.

Many also think that Apple will have a pretty difficult time claiming someone spending money on a smartphone would be confused, especially since Samsung puts their name in big letters on their products.

As to possible confusion that Apple might've licensed Samsung to make iPhones, well... is there any person on the planet who doesn't know that Apple never lets others build their products? Who knows.

Here's a pretty good article (http://patentpoints.blogspot.com/2011/05/dont-upset-apple-cart.html)that brings up some of the issues.

.

cmaier
Jun 17, 2011, 09:15 PM
Casual viewing doesn't matter.

The court case will hinge on whether or not a normal customer would be confused when actually buying the product.



That's not quite true. See, e.g. 15 USC 1114 referring to "any person" (not a normal customer) and "likelihood" of confusion (not "would be confused").

The test is usually stated in such a way as "the consuming public would likely be confused." There are many cases extending this to, for example, "initial interest" confusion. For example, someone in the market for a new phone goes looking for one of them shiny new Apple products. He sees a samsung whatchama tab. For an instant he thinks it's an apple product, so he picks it up. He quickly realizes it isn't an apple product but he likes it and buys it. He never would have picked it up except for the confusion he had for an instant. (This is sometimes stated as a person in search of one product who inadvertently comes upon a related one buys that instead.) Under the "initial interest" line of cases, Samsung may be liable for unfair competition and/or trademark infringement.

kdarling
Jun 17, 2011, 09:25 PM
... There are many cases extending this to, for example, "initial interest" confusion.

For example, someone in the market for a new phone goes looking for one of them shiny new Apple products. He sees a samsung whatchama tab. For an instant he thinks it's an apple product, so he picks it up.

He quickly realizes it isn't an apple product but he likes it and buys it. He never would have picked it up except for the confusion he had for an instant. ...

Thanks, that's a very fascinating legal concept.

It's like creatures in nature that ape the look of other things in order to get the prey to come closer :)

And yet.... how does this "initial interest" line of thinking jibe with other cases where the name was enough to avoid trouble? For instance, the artificial sweetener case cited in that article. Or other ones where just having the name (e.g. Excedrin) large enough on similar packaging was enough.

In other words, if someone is out to buy an iPhone, would they be confused or sidetracked enough to buy the Samsung instead? Hmm... I would say yes, if the iPhone wasn't available on that carrier! But otherwise?

cmaier
Jun 17, 2011, 09:34 PM
Thanks, that's a very fascinating legal concept.

It's like creatures in nature that ape the look of other things in order to get the prey to come closer :)

And yet.... how does this "initial interest" line of thinking jibe with other cases where the name was enough to avoid trouble? For instance, the artificial sweetener case cited in that article. Or other ones where just having the name (e.g. Excedrin) large enough on similar packaging was enough.

In other words, if someone is out to buy an iPhone, would they be confused or sidetracked enough to buy the Samsung instead? Hmm... I would say yes, if the iPhone wasn't available on that carrier! But otherwise?

This isn't my practice area, so I'm not competent to comment on why different cases turn on different things. One thing I have heard is that "initial interest confusion" is more likely to be found where the infringed mark is particularly famous.

It's also important to remember that trademark law, unlike patent law, varies quite a bit from state to state (patent law is always federal. "Trademark law" usually refers to the federal law, but there are also state "unfair competition laws" that serve similar purposes in each state). The result may depend on what state's laws are being applied, how famous the mark is, whether the plaintiff can actually prove they lost business to this type of confusion, etc.

Dbrown
Jun 17, 2011, 09:51 PM
Dude, the notification system is one small thing. But the copy of the whole phone and (subjectively) the whole UI is quite another.

The whole UI? The only part that looks like an iphone in the UI is the app drawer. Most people create shortcuts to apps on the homescreen and dont use the app drawer.

The notification system is much more significant because everytime you get a text, tweet, email etc... it pops in the notification tray. for many people that's easily 100+ times a day. No one uses the app drawer 100 times a day.

iEvolution
Jun 17, 2011, 10:04 PM
I don't even like Samsung but this kind of trash makes apple look like a bunch of babies and it also assumes that the consumer and the cell phone reps are a bunch of cretins that can't turn a door knob let alone identify two different phones.

As if the concept of desktop style icons is unique and different. Get real apple.

kdarling
Jun 17, 2011, 10:06 PM
This isn't my practice area, so I'm not competent to comment on why different cases turn on different things. One thing I have heard is that "initial interest confusion" is more likely to be found where the infringed mark is particularly famous.

Thank you, I will look that up. Seems counter-intuitive, though. Shouldn't a more famous mark be harder to draw interest away from? And even if the buyer is drawn away because they like the competition, isn't that just fair salesmanship?

It's also important to remember that trademark law, unlike patent law, varies quite a bit from state to state ...

Good reminder. Cmaier brought that up one time when I mentioned that the Jeep vs Hummer seven-slot grill case was decided partly on the basis that stopping Hummer sales would cause a lot of layoffs... and that was because the trade dress case was brought in Motor City itself, with its own needs.

So where's the jurisdiction? California?

cmaier
Jun 17, 2011, 10:17 PM
Thank you, I will look that up. Seems counter-intuitive, though. Shouldn't a more famous mark be harder to draw interest away from? And even if the buyer is drawn away because they like the competition, isn't that just fair salesmanship?



Good reminder. Cmaier brought that up one time when I mentioned that the Jeep vs Hummer seven-slot grill case was decided partly on the basis that stopping Hummer sales would cause a lot of layoffs... and that was because the trade dress case was brought in Motor City itself, with its own needs.

So where's the jurisdiction? California?

I believe this case has federal law claims and california unfair competition claims.

Famous marks are given stronger protections because trademark law is rooted in the idea of "unfair" competition - someone trying to be "unfair" is likely to be more successful by imitating a famous mark. (I just made that up. I have no idea.)

kdarling
Jun 17, 2011, 10:33 PM
Famous marks are given stronger protections because trademark law is rooted in the idea of "unfair" competition - someone trying to be "unfair" is likely to be more successful by imitating a famous mark. (I just made that up. I have no idea.)

*chuckling* Well, that was honest!

So okay, I did a quick study of "initial interest", and besides being a comparatively rare situation, it seems to tend (tho not always) towards having something really core being similar, such as the name (e.g. "iFone") or emblem (e.g. having a fruit symbol on the back). I would be surprised if Apple brought it up.

Actually, this whole case dilutes the Apple brand in my mind. If Apple themselves believe that some visual similarities are enough to sway buyers, then what the heck does that say about the uniqueness or supposed superiority of the iPhone?

Is the iPhone that easy to copy? Is it really that easy to build something that can tempt buyers away? This seems to be their argument, and because it's true in many ways, it doesn't ultimately help their brand value.

I fear that all Apple will do with this case, is create more interest in Samsung.

Regards.

cmaier
Jun 17, 2011, 10:40 PM
*chuckling* Well, that was honest!

So okay, I did a quick study of "initial interest", and besides being a comparatively rare situation, it seems to tend (tho not always) towards having something really core being similar, such as the name (e.g. "iFone") or emblem (e.g. having a fruit symbol on the back). I would be surprised if Apple brought it up.

Actually, this whole case dilutes the Apple brand in my mind. If Apple themselves believe that some visual similarities are enough to sway buyers, then what the heck does that say about the uniqueness or supposed superiority of the iPhone?

Is the iPhone that easy to copy? Is it really that easy to build something that can tempt buyers away? This seems to be their argument, and because it's true in many ways, it doesn't ultimately help their brand value.

I fear that all Apple will do with this case, is create more interest in Samsung.

Regards.

Note that "dilution" of the mark is a separate theory of unfair competition. If I remember the complaint correctly, Apple asserted it. Again, you can only dilute a "famous" mark.

AppleScruff1
Jun 17, 2011, 10:42 PM
Another lame Apple tactic. This is first class behavior?

kdarling
Jun 17, 2011, 10:48 PM
Note that "dilution" of the mark is a separate theory of unfair competition. If I remember the complaint correctly, Apple asserted it. Again, you can only dilute a "famous" mark.

That makes sense.

And yet.... hmm, how do you prove the extent of damage? Would Apple claim that those two million Samsung Galaxy sales in the first month or so should've been iPhone sales? Or X percentage of them?

lilo777
Jun 17, 2011, 11:19 PM
I believe this case has federal law claims and california unfair competition claims.

Famous marks are given stronger protections because trademark law is rooted in the idea of "unfair" competition - someone trying to be "unfair" is likely to be more successful by imitating a famous mark. (I just made that up. I have no idea.)

One may also make a point of Samsung being a more well known cell phone brand than Apple. They sell many times more phones than Apple and have been doing so for quite a while. Can Samsung then sue Apple for damaging their brand? It's really hard to believe that Apple can win this lawsuit. Because if they do what will the remedy be? Force Samsung to change the radius of the corners? Move the screen by 2 mm? Change the color of two icons? Put "Not an iPhone disclaimer" on the box? That would be laughable.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 17, 2011, 11:32 PM
I have evidence that it's a blatant ripoff right next to me.
I showed my fiance (who knows almost nothing about tech of any sort) the picture of the iPhone 3GS, and asked her what kind of phone it was.
"iPhone"
I showed her the picture of the Samsung phone in question.
"iPho... Wait..."

Marking material is not exactly relevent. Have both phones sitting there and have you wife look at them and I can promise you she will not be confused.

That is unless she things that all slab touch screen phones are iPhones then if that is the case well that is another issue because there are only so many ways you can make a slab phone.


*chuckling* Well, that was honest!

So okay, I did a quick study of "initial interest", and besides being a comparatively rare situation, it seems to tend (tho not always) towards having something really core being similar, such as the name (e.g. "iFone") or emblem (e.g. having a fruit symbol on the back). I would be surprised if Apple brought it up.

Actually, this whole case dilutes the Apple brand in my mind. If Apple themselves believe that some visual similarities are enough to sway buyers, then what the heck does that say about the uniqueness or supposed superiority of the iPhone?

Is the iPhone that easy to copy? Is it really that easy to build something that can tempt buyers away? This seems to be their argument, and because it's true in many ways, it doesn't ultimately help their brand value.

I fear that all Apple will do with this case, is create more interest in Samsung.

Regards.


I am trying to figure out Apple case they seem to be really struggling and I could see in court it really falling appart on them.

Also they seem to go after anything that is a slab touch screen phone. Sorry but how many ways can you make an all touch screen phone and they look different powered off. On some of there targets they have on Samsung that would mean The Blackberry Storm, Atrix, almost all the HTC phones ect because from the front they are black slabs touch screen phones.

cmaier
Jun 17, 2011, 11:35 PM
One may also make a point of Samsung being a more well known cell phone brand than Apple. They sell many times more phones than Apple and have been doing so for quite a while. Can Samsung then sue Apple for damaging their brand?

By doing what? Making a phone that looks like a samsung phone that doesn't exist yet? Competition isn't actionable. Unfair competition is.

mac*jedi*g
Jun 18, 2011, 12:50 AM
Such a blatant ripoff. Samsung is provoking this action. I think it about time Apple sends over a couple of their best goomba's and have a nice "one to one" talk.... (okay, yeah, that'll work) with the CEO.

Hueyfreeman
Jun 18, 2011, 01:05 AM
Ok so I showed my friend an iphone and she new it was an iphone. I showed her a galaxy s 2 with the screenshot samsung uses. She said it was some android phone, only thing they had in common was a large home button.

MacinDoc
Jun 18, 2011, 01:13 AM
It's clear that people who blindly follow Apple will see things in Apple's favour regardless of anything. We all just read how Apple LOST to Nokia. But did the Apple followers see it that way? Of course not. They spun it as if Apple won. When a company like Apple "settles" and at the same time they are on the shorter side of that settlement, it just means they failed at trying to get away with something that they didn't want to pay for. And again, none of the blind Apple followers had anything to say about it, other than, Apple came out on top, and made smart business moves. Apple just finished raping Android's notification, and again, the Apple loyalist completely came out saying how great it is with absolutely no credit to Android. All they while they truly believe Samsung is not a leading innovator in the tech world. It's utterly laughable. So no matter how much FACT you introduce, it's being presented to the blind.
Before you blindly follow the Apple haters, perhaps you should inform yourself better regarding the details of this action. There was never any dispute that Apple was using Nokia IP for its connection standards, as every company using 3G technology is required to do. The dispute was over what constituted fair compensation for the use of that IP. Apple claimed that it was not offered terms comparable to what other manufacturers were offered, and that this constituted anticompetitive practice, especially with regards to the use of an industry standard (one could certainly question how one company could be allowed to hold a patent on an agreed-upon industry standard, but that is another discussion). No judgment was made in this case, as the two companies settled, the terms of which were not made public (it appears that the dollar figures bandied about were concocted by "analysts"). For all we know, Nokia may have licensed the tech to Apple under the terms that Apple had requested.

Leaping Tortois
Jun 18, 2011, 02:43 AM
There are aspects of this case that make sense. I'm in Australia, and many of the promotional images for the Galaxy S (and ONLY the galaxy S, not the tab, S2 and so on) showed only the front view with the app screen. Now, actually going into a store and using a Galaxy S, you'd notice the difference from the iPhone immediately, but some of the advertising could be confused.

That said, essentially everything else on that list is atrocious. I'm currently looking at getting an S2, couldn't confuse the thing for an iPhone if you tried. Very different devices (relatively speaking).

And I'd like to comment on the fanboy argument here. I don't care if you like apple or google (I'm more partial to google in the slate industry, simply because I like control). If you like iOS then buy an iPhone, and if you like android, go with android. It's people who buy an android phone, and try to justify to themselves (and everyone else) that it's so much better than apple, because they don't want to be part of the apple crowd. Those people really annoy me.

I'm just gonna put this out there:

THEY'RE PHONES!!! wonder if anyone ever sat back and thought about that......

KnightWRX
Jun 18, 2011, 07:43 AM
It's people who buy an iPhone, and try to justify to themselves (and everyone else) that it's so much better than Android, because they want to be part of the apple crowd. Those people really annoy me.

Funny how that goes both ways uh ?

Anyone claiming their subjective opinion as fact in support of a brand of products is annoying. These are faceless corporations, they owe you no loyalty and you owe them none in return. They don't care about you, be it Apple or Google or Microsoft. They only care about your money.

Choose the product you like best at the price you can afford. "Street creds" for buying material things is the most ridiculous and sheepish thing you can try to achieve.

I own an iPhone. My next phone will probably be an iPhone again. I have no problems siding against Apple on many of these ridiculous issues they keep bringing up, crying to the courts like a an offended schoolgirl.

blackpond
Jun 18, 2011, 10:18 AM
What's the big deal with Apple claiming something as simple as a grid layout UI? Check out this UI from 1983!

http://www.jeremyreimer.com/apple_screens/DM10.jpg

Oh wait... that was the Apple Lisa.

http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/Sections/CNBC_TV/CNBC_US/Shows/_Documentaries_Specials/Macintosh/Slideshow/Mac_Images/SS_BEST_WORST_APPLE_lisa.jpg

Leaping Tortois
Jun 18, 2011, 10:26 AM
Funny how that goes both ways uh ?


Woops, I actually meant it to be the other way around but got mixed up. I don't know anyone who'd buy an iPhone to because they want something like android, but I have seen it the other way around.

I'm a big fan of "I don't care what brand it is so long as you're happy with the decision," and people who buy iPhone look-a-likes (not necessarily android in general) and keep going on about how much better it is just sounds like them justifying to themselves, and would probably have been far more satisfied with an iPhone.

I bought an iPod touch (years ago now) to replace my samsung P2, and while the P2 had better audio quality by far, the iPod had gapless playback, a really important feature to me, and I haven't regretted buying it since, even though I actually don't like apple. Same goes for my Macbook pro, and for my Windows 7 desktop.

Sorry 'bout the mix up, completely undermined my statement

*EDIT* GASP!!!! I've been misquoted!!!!

KnightWRX
Jun 18, 2011, 10:40 AM
*EDIT* GASP!!!! I've been misquoted!!!!

No, you haven't. I was pointing out how your statement goes both ways so I fixed it up. I know people who buy Apple stuff because it's "trendy", and then go on and on about how superior it is and then ask stuff like "is there a way to make it do X ?" that is just not available on the iPhone but is on Android.

Those people end up jailbreaking usually.

Seriously, there's fanboys on both sides and both sides are annoying.

Leaping Tortois
Jun 18, 2011, 10:44 AM
I was pointing out how your statement goes both ways so I fixed it up. I know people who buy Apple stuff because it's "trendy", and then go on and on about how superior it is and then ask stuff like "is there a way to make it do X ?" that is just not available on the iPhone but is on Android.

Those people end up jailbreaking usually.

Seriously, there's fanboys on both sides and both sides are annoying.

Ah yes, I get you now, I just thought I'd typed my thing out wrong. I completely agree. That's where the "They're phones, people!" comes in. Buy something that suits you. However, internet browser fandom is COMPLETELY justified! GO FIREFOX :P

P.S. I actually ended up jailbreaking when apple decided that their new update allowing backgrounds wasn't allowed on my Touch!

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 10:50 AM
Evolution... not revolution, dont give apple THAT much credit.

Why? Are you going to decide how much credit Apple should be given for changing the entire mobile industry?

Oh! No they didn't?

You cannot have rational discussions with such people in the forums who just cannot agree to the 'fact' that Apple changed the entire game.

I guess, it wasn't your favourite phone that changed everything so you could come up with a similar argument then.

Apple didn't change anything. The mobile industry just changed overnight automatically. Yeah right.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 10:54 AM
I will be saying thank you to HTC and Google. If Apple did start the smartphone revolution they are lagging behind a lot now. Ios has always been playing catchup, take stealing notifications and bbm for recent examples. Hardly bringing us into the post pc era.

Is GoogleTalk a copy of BBM? or is Windows messenger because the underlying thought is just the same.

Or do you mean, that GoogleTalk is on other platforms as well so its not a copy of BBM?

I'm just waiting for Google to release something same for Android so you could come up with a counter argument stating that a chat client is not a copy. It's after all a chat client.

Ah well! Those notifications look so much like SBSettings. Don't they? Did android copy them?

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 10:58 AM
This is so ridiculous! Apple didn't invent the mobile phone. They didn't invent the touch screen. They did some fantastic work on making touch screen smart phones usable! In doing so, and since, they have borrowed from others and others have borrowed from them.

At the beginning of 2007, Apple announced the iPhone and Samsung announced the F700 - the announcements were less than a month apart (in other words there simply wasn't time to copy).

Both are rounded touch screen devices with a grid style icon layout.

Apple really need to accept they didn't invent everything!

The Samsung F700:

Image (http://st.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/samsung-f700/gsmarena_001.jpg)

(This from a long time Apple fan and iPhone user since 2008)

http://mphonesgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/samsung.jpg

You mean this?

The phone was announced before the iPhone. But it was NEVER shown in public before.

I think someone needs to get their facts clear.

kdarling
Jun 18, 2011, 10:59 AM
What's the big deal with Apple claiming something as simple as a grid layout UI? Check out this UI from 1983!


Not sure what your point is.

Humans have laid out items in a grid pattern for tens of thousands of years.

Programmers especially do it a lot, since it simplifies keeping track of objects.

Before GUIs came along, computers displayed text in a predefined grid pattern on a terminal or printer.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 11:01 AM
Look how the google smartphone / Android (Prototype) looked like before the iPhone was announced:

Image (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/12/thumb463x_androidlive.JPG)

... looked like a RIM copy cat.

Source: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/02/google_phone_prototype_to_be_shown_next_week_at_mobile_world_congress-2/

No! That isn't a copy.

I have no effects but I need to defend this somehow. Right?

/s

Leaping Tortois
Jun 18, 2011, 11:01 AM
Sorry Steve Jobs, it's easy to make something like a phone cool. It takes someone really cool to make something like a Bow Tie cool, or a Fez, that's right! I think that google should employ The Doctor to make their products even more hip and trendy. I dare you to say that you wouldn't buy this phone:

http://cdn2.onlygizmos.com/content/2010/12/google-nexus-s.jpg

If it was used by this guy:

http://angerbanjo.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/fez.png

Rodimus Prime
Jun 18, 2011, 11:04 AM
Image (http://mphonesgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/samsung.jpg)

You mean this?

The phone was announced before the iPhone. But it was NEVER shown in public before.

I think someone needs to get their facts clear.
One month is not enough time to copy and get something into production. It was feature and design lock months before the iPhone announcement.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 11:04 AM
Go Apple! I support this.

Really?

I supported Apple because I thought Samsung did try to copy Apple a lot. But adding these phones, which don't even look like an iPhone is quite ridiculous.

There are phones like Nexus S which absolutely don't like an iPhone. As for the galaxy tab 10.1, here's a better pic:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/galaxy-tab-101-lead-1308357540.jpg

It surely does look like an iPad from above; but well, I'll leave it for Apple/Samsung to decide on that.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 11:08 AM
One month is not enough time to copy and get something into production. It was feature and design lock months before the iPhone announcement.

Hey!

I totally agree to that. On another note, I fail to see that even if it did copy the iPhone to become F700, it shouldn't matter as those two phones are quite different in their appeal and software.

But keep in mind, the phone wasn't released for 6-8 months after the announcement. For all these major companies, it isn't a big deal to carve a prototype with baby software for a show appearance. You must know that the software that samsung showed had existed for a while (that's what I think).

Companies like Samsung, LG, etc can make these prototypes in a week's time; but whatever the case is: F700 and iPhone do not look the same or even similar in almost any way.

Lennholm
Jun 18, 2011, 11:10 AM
I have evidence that it's a blatant ripoff right next to me.
I showed my fiance (who knows almost nothing about tech of any sort) the picture of the iPhone 3GS, and asked her what kind of phone it was.
"iPhone"
I showed her the picture of the Samsung phone in question.
"iPho... Wait..."

That only proves which company has had the most successful marketing, most people would mistake the HTC Legend for iPhone at first glance, simply because Apple with alot of help from the media have been shoving "iPhone" down peoples throats.

Seeing all the cherry-picked images of Samsung phones on these forums it seems all Samsung is guilty of copying from Apple is their marketing photos.

Leaping Tortois
Jun 18, 2011, 11:11 AM
Image (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/galaxy-tab-101-lead-1308357540.jpg)

It surely does look like an iPad from above; but well, I'll leave it for Apple/Samsung to decide on that.

I reckon samsung, to avoid the "it looks like an iPad," should remove the black border, have an edge to edge screen, how cool would that be? I reckon (this is purely from a hardware and appearance perspective) would make it look way cooler than an iPad, but it takes a good UI to make the tablet good, not a flashy thing like that.

blackpond
Jun 18, 2011, 11:14 AM
Not sure what your point is.

Humans have laid out items in a grid pattern for tens of thousands of years.

Programmers especially do it a lot, since it simplifies keeping track of objects.

Before GUIs came along, computers displayed text in a predefined grid pattern on a terminal or printer.

My point was that posting images like these and claiming that Apple stole the grid from someone else is pointless.

http://www.sonyclie.org/images/sony_clie_peg_t615c_02.jpg

http://mphonesgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/samsung.jpg

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 11:18 AM
I reckon samsung, to avoid the "it looks like an iPad," should remove the black border, have an edge to edge screen, how cool would that be? I reckon (this is purely from a hardware and appearance perspective) would make it look way cooler than an iPad, but it takes a good UI to make the tablet good, not a flashy thing like that.

I think edge to edge screens might come in this form factor.

The point of throwing that image in that regards was to pin-point that there is very less difference b/w the iPad and the galaxy tab when looking from above.

I mean, there could be many ways of making a tablet running Honeycomb. There are great designs from ASUS; and I simply love the transformer; an awesome buy for an awesome price. Coming to the point, samsung could have differentiated. But instead they chose not to. And that's why they have to a price now.

Being more consistent with my previous post, I think Apple is being more than ridiculous by adding phones that don't even look like an iPhone. I don't know if they are trying to insult Samsung or themselves.

Leaping Tortois
Jun 18, 2011, 11:30 AM
Being more consistent with my previous post, I think Apple is being more than ridiculous by adding phones that don't even look like an iPhone. I don't know if they are trying to insult Samsung or themselves.

Agreed. I think going after them for the GS was reasonable, they had to for legal purposes, but adding all these other phones, to me, seems to scream of apple believing themselves to be so good that they can get away with it. Kinda annoys me. It's one thing to pursue them for potential patent breaches, but it's another thing to just be a jerk.

kdarling
Jun 18, 2011, 11:45 AM
My point was that posting images like these and claiming that Apple stole the grid from someone else is pointless.

Exactly. Claiming that anyone stole a grid is pointless. It's a natural layout pattern to use.

The dock had also been used on UIs for a long time.

Developers designing UIs eventually arrive at similar destinations if they play around long enough. I think this is especially true for devices that have to support finger touch. Small screen, large fingers, is a common design constraint.

cirus
Jun 18, 2011, 12:08 PM
My point was that posting images like these and claiming that Apple stole the grid from someone else is pointless.

Image (http://www.sonyclie.org/images/sony_clie_peg_t615c_02.jpg)

Image (http://mphonesgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/samsung.jpg)

No, the point is to shut those up who keep saying "They copied the grid!:eek:"

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 12:11 PM
Exactly. Claiming that anyone stole a grid is pointless. It's a natural layout pattern to use.

The dock had also been used on UIs for a long time.

Developers designing UIs eventually arrive at similar destinations if they play around long enough. I think this is especially true for devices that have to support finger touch. Small screen, large fingers, is a common design constraint.

+1

If you'd notice, contesting the grid format is same as questioning Mathematics.

The grid in simple terms is a m*n matrix with 'm' rows and 'n' columns. I think the grid layout is no invention or even contributes to a patent (I don't think there's one).

As for the dock, if I'm not wrong, it first showed up in NeXT OS and was then used by a lot of other UI designs incorporated in different operating systems. The same dock that originated in NeXT OS finally made its way to the Mac with OS X. Apple and NeXT should be credited but its no big deal if some other company starts to use it in the same way.

But I guess, we all are every clear that the lawsuit isn't about a grid layout OR a dock or a similar looking icon. It's about the entire presentation from start to finish to trick people into looking at a product and giving it some attention.

cmaier
Jun 18, 2011, 12:15 PM
Not sure what your point is.

Humans have laid out items in a grid pattern for tens of thousands of years.

Programmers especially do it a lot, since it simplifies keeping track of objects.

Before GUIs came along, computers displayed text in a predefined grid pattern on a terminal or printer.

+1

If you'd notice, contesting the grid format is same as questioning Mathematics.

The grid in simple terms is a m*n matrix with 'm' rows and 'n' columns. I think the grid layout is no invention or even contributes to a patent (I don't think there's one).

As for the dock, if I'm not wrong, it first showed up in NeXT OS and was then used by a lot of other UI designs incorporated in different operating systems. The same dock that originated in NeXT OS finally made its way to the Mac with OS X. Apple and NeXT should be credited but its no big deal if some other company starts to use it in the same way.

But I guess, we all are every clear that the lawsuit isn't about a grid layout OR a dock or a similar looking icon. It's about the entire presentation from start to finish to trick people into looking at a product and giving it some attention.

Right. The issue isn't whether individual elements existed. It is whether the combination results in an overall presentation that is confusingly similar.

Arches existed before mcdonalds started using them. Script fonts existed before the Coke logo.

cervaro
Jun 18, 2011, 12:29 PM
Apple are not an innocent when it comes to 'reworking' other peoples ideas, so to accuse Samsung of copying, especially with them being a major component supplier is a little rich.

Been an iPhone 3G user for nearly 3 years now. The Samsung Galaxy S2 looks far more appealing to me at the moment compared to the iPhone 4. The next iteration of the iPhone will have to produce some major changes to convince me not to buy the Samsung instead. Price is also a big factor in the Samsungs favour too, as Apple are still being far too greedy when it comes to handset subsidies in the UK. :(

*LTD*
Jun 18, 2011, 12:44 PM
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/18/top_execs_from_apple_samsung_meeting_to_discuss_patent_suit.html

Top execs from Apple, Samsung meeting to discuss patent suit

I smell consensus.

Maybe.

Winni
Jun 18, 2011, 01:29 PM
I gotta admit that does look like a bad Chinese iPhone clone right there....

If they are clones, then they are in every aspect better than the "original". I switched from the iPhone to the much superior Galaxy S2 and I'm not looking back. Samsung did everything right with the Galaxy S2.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 01:41 PM
If they are clones, then they are in every aspect better than the "original". I switched from the iPhone to the much superior Galaxy S2 and I'm not looking back. Samsung did everything right with the Galaxy S2.

That made sense. :rolleyes:

mashkina
Jun 18, 2011, 01:53 PM
doesnt matter, apple fanboys seem to think apple owns the patent to anything in grid format and rounded edges.

You Android fanboys do not get the facts: it is not us "Apple fanboys" who are suing Samsung, it is Apple that is suing them. And Apple has good reasons. Wouldn't BMW suing KIA if the koreans built a clone of a "BMW 330 i"? Most of the customers are no fanboys like you and me; certainly they know more about the iPhone from TV ads and other channels, but once in the shop they can get easily convinced by the salesman that this "other smartphone", that looks and feels like the iPhone, is better and cheaper. Just because Samsung provides some of the iPhone parts doesn't give them the right to copy the whole package. And copying if is not IP protected is perfectly legal. But this is not the case.

domness
Jun 18, 2011, 03:41 PM
You Android fanboys do not get the facts: it is not us "Apple fanboys" who are suing Samsung, it is Apple that is suing them. And Apple has good reasons. Wouldn't BMW suing KIA if the koreans built a clone of a "BMW 330 i"? Most of the customers are no fanboys like you and me; certainly they know more about the iPhone from TV ads and other channels, but once in the shop they can get easily convinced by the salesman that this "other smartphone", that looks and feels like the iPhone, is better and cheaper. Just because Samsung provides some of the iPhone parts doesn't give them the right to copy the whole package. And copying if is not IP protected is perfectly legal. But this is not the case.

But they really aren't a copy? And Apple announce iOS 5.0 at their keynote demoing features straight from the Android OS? - Also, the Samsung Galaxy SII isn't cheaper than the iPhone 4.. It's more expensive.

ZMDK
Jun 18, 2011, 03:47 PM
What is apple whining about? They stole the design for their iPhone 2G themself from HTC (Qtek 2020).

Rodimus Prime
Jun 18, 2011, 03:53 PM
But they really aren't a copy? And Apple announce iOS 5.0 at their keynote demoing features straight from the Android OS? - Also, the Samsung Galaxy SII isn't cheaper than the iPhone 4.. It's more expensive.

yep.

Not a single feature in iOS was not a blatent rip off and copy (and a iffy copy at best) of the other OS.
It little pop up notifications rip off of both Jailbreak and WP7.
Notification pull down. Direct copy of Android.
iMessage is BBM.

What feature in iOS was not a direct copy?

Year of the copy cats. Means year Apple copies everyone else.

Fukui
Jun 18, 2011, 04:28 PM
I dont think people are getting it.

Its not about copying. iOS 5 copies that stupid (IMO) pulldown that is totally unintuitive to a new user, and I don't really like it, but it doesn't make me confused about what OS or HW Im using.

What apple is alleging is that by ripping off so many things in combination, samsung are confusing potential customers about the HW and SW (at least on a superficial level).

That, IMO is the key, and brings Samsung down to the level of cheap chinese knockoffs, which they really should be above because they are capable of so much more.

No one ever confused an iPhone with a win-mobile or a crappy moto phone when it came out, it stood on its own merits, even if they took ideas that existed before.

This will be good for Samsung in the long-run, so, whatever, they’ll just have to be more “original..."

ChazUK
Jun 18, 2011, 04:28 PM
There are phones like Nexus S which absolutely don't like an iPhone. As for the galaxy tab 10.1, here's a better pic:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/galaxy-tab-101-lead-1308357540.jpg

It surely does look like an iPad from above; but well, I'll leave it for Apple/Samsung to decide on that.

When it comes to tablet PC's I don't know what people would like manufacturers to change in the frontal design. Going by that picture above, do you think the Xoom is an iPad clone also?
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1303/img20110618221710.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/img20110618221710.jpg/)

For me, my first experiences with tablet computing were with the HP TC1000's older brother, the TC1100 and I feel that a lot of modern tablet PC's are inspired by this design:
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9730/tc11001.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/tc11001.jpg/)
Image borrowed from Wikipedia

A clean, minimalistic design with no buttons on the front area is pretty much all I've seen from tablet manufacturers these days. The TC1000 did all of this years before the current crop of tablets.

lilo777
Jun 18, 2011, 04:42 PM
I dont think people are getting it.

Its not about copying. iOS 5 copies that stupid (IMO) pulldown that is totally unintuitive to a new user, and I don't really like it, but it doesn't make me confused about what OS or HW Im using.

What apple is alleging is that by ripping off so many things in combination, samsung are confusing potential customers about the HW and SW (at least on a superficial level).

That, IMO is the key, and brings Samsung down to the level of cheap chinese knockoffs, which they really should be above because they are capable of so much more.

No one ever confused an iPhone with a win-mobile or a crappy moto phone when it came out, it stood on its own merits, even if they took ideas that existed before.

This will be good for Samsung in the long-run, so, whatever, they’ll just have to be more “original..."

When device prominently features sign "Samsung" on the front side how stupid/illiterate one should be to confuse it with Apple? Before Apple filed this lawsuit, nobody ever mentioned that Samsung phones are so similar to iPhone that people were confusing them. Why? Because people did not confuse them.

briantw
Jun 18, 2011, 04:54 PM
Aw I upset you. Sorry.

Thanks for your "research" though. LOL

Yes I do like to get the "apple fanboy" hurlers all worked up don't I. I even got you to spend some time researching my posts. Now run along and ignore me before I teach you some more lessons.

Oh and thanks for making your avatar similar to mine. Another positive feedback.

You experienced the taste of sweet, honeysuckle-scented pwnage, and I enjoyed witnessing the carnage so much more than I should have.

Now, it is indeed time for you to grow up some.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 09:09 PM
When it comes to tablet PC's I don't know what people would like manufacturers to change in the frontal design. Going by that picture above, do you think the Xoom is an iPad clone also?
Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/img20110618221710.jpg/)

For me, my first experiences with tablet computing were with the HP TC1000's older brother, the TC1100 and I feel that a lot of modern tablet PC's are inspired by this design:
Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/tc11001.jpg/)
Image borrowed from Wikipedia

A clean, minimalistic design with no buttons on the front area is pretty much all I've seen from tablet manufacturers these days. The TC1000 did all of this years before the current crop of tablets.

Exactly my point. Sometimes there is very little you could do to differ your product against a very popular product. I do agree on that part though.

But if you're saying that it can't be done in a different way then you're wrong. It can and is being done by a lot of other manufacturers manufacturing other honeycomb tablets.

yep.

Not a single feature in iOS was not a blatent rip off and copy (and a iffy copy at best) of the other OS.
It little pop up notifications rip off of both Jailbreak and WP7.
Notification pull down. Direct copy of Android.
iMessage is BBM.

What feature in iOS was not a direct copy?

Year of the copy cats. Means year Apple copies everyone else.

It little pop up notifications rip off of both Jailbreak and WP7.

Like? Where should they show the pop-up? Down near the dock - webOS, up-near the status bar or covering the status bar - jailbreak. Ya they should use thin air from now on.

Notification pull down. Direct copy of Android.

Did Android copy SBSettings? Or Mac OSX for that matter that has always displayed settings and notifications on the top-status bar? I'm guessing you'd say No.

iMessage is BBM.

Then what is Gtalk or WindowsMessenger or any other chat client for that matter? The only difference is that those are available on different platforms; BBM and iMessage are not.
I'm waiting for Google to get a IM implementation similar to what Apple has done and will wait for the comment then.

Do you even know the difference b/w copying, extending features and making a competitor?

Next you will say Apple copied OTA and the cloud.

Just waiting for the day Android copies GPU acceleration from other operating systems.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 18, 2011, 09:35 PM
Like? Where should they show the pop-up? Down near the dock - webOS, up-near the status bar or covering the status bar - jailbreak. Ya they should use thin air from now on.



Did Android copy SBSettings? Or Mac OSX for that matter that has always displayed settings and notifications on the top-status bar? I'm guessing you'd say No.



Then what is Gtalk or WindowsMessenger or any other chat client for that matter? The only difference is that those are available on different platforms; BBM and iMessage are not.
I'm waiting for Google to get a IM implementation similar to what Apple has done and will wait for the comment then.

Do you even know the difference b/w copying, extending features and making a competitor?

Next you will say Apple copied OTA and the cloud.

Just waiting for the day Android copies GPU acceleration from other operating systems.

The difference is those others did not go out and cry like a little baby every time someone does a remote copy of them. It was Apple who made fun of everyone for remote coping and yet they turn around and do it a hell of a lot worse than everyone else.

The reason Apple is and should get so much crap about it is because of how big of a hypocrite they made of themselves. Others never pointed fingers about coping but Apple did time and time again in its past. That and the year of the copy cats slide at a keynot does not help their case much.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 09:41 PM
The difference is those others did not go out and cry like a little baby every time someone does a remote copy of them. It was Apple who made fun of everyone for remote coping and yet they turn around and do it a hell of a lot worse than everyone else.


1. Are you crying now?
2. It doesn't validate your previous post at all. I gave an explanation as to how those things are not copied. Yet you post: 'It was Apple who made fun of everyone for remote coping and yet they turn around and do it a hell of a lot worse than everyone else.' Do you have an argument for that, cause it looks like you're falling over.

The reason Apple is and should get so much crap about it is because of how big of a hypocrite they made of themselves. Others never pointed fingers about coping but Apple did time and time again in its past. That and the year of the copy cats slide at a keynot does not help their case much.

I never accepted that thing myself and Apple really is spoilt on that regard. But yes, they were true to that slide as well. Right after people criticising iPad to be the ********* Apple product ever, Google saw an opportunity and tweaked their Operating system to run on tablets. I don't know if that's copying or not, but that's seriously going behind the successful run of Apple's iPad and making a dent of their own.

Again, I don't subscribe to Apple's practices in this regard but they were true to it. Still, you were unable to defend your copy/paste argument in your previous post.

Throw some facts please.

EricNau
Jun 18, 2011, 09:45 PM
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Tyre
Jun 18, 2011, 10:12 PM
Apple has so much going for it here. Almost every smartphone is a direct copy of the iPhone, at least originally. We forget how the market looked in '07 when nothing like this existed, but from then on it was copy after copy. Android has definitely distinguished itself to a certain extent, but the app ecosystem was pioneered and perfected by Apple.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 18, 2011, 10:30 PM
1. Are you crying now?
2. It doesn't valid your previous post at all. I gave an explanation as to how those things are not copied. Yet you post: 'It was Apple who made fun of everyone for remote coping and yet they turn around and do it a hell of a lot worse than everyone else.' Do you have an argument for that, cause it looks like you're falling over.



I never accepted that thing myself and Apple really is spoilt on that regard. But yes, they were true to that slide as well. Right after people criticising iPad to be the ********* Apple product ever, Google saw an opportunity and tweaked their Operating system to run on tablets. I don't know if that's copying or not, but that's seriously going behind the successful run of Apple's iPad and making a dent of their own.

Again, I don't subscribe to Apple's practices in this regard but they were true to it. Still, you were unable to defend your copy/paste argument in your previous post.

Throw some facts please.

If those are your agrument then the counter to pretty much everything apple and a lot of other saying others are coping is
How many ways can you make a slab touch screen device. Black and while are pretty much the primary professional looking colors.
Touch screen interface is commonly a grid.

What I find funny is the argument being used to defend Apple doing it all at once that list of coping is weaker than the how many ways can you make a slab argument.
It is a black slab device. Sorry but most things are going to look the same when you get to that point.

MacinDoc
Jun 18, 2011, 10:35 PM
What is apple whining about? They stole the design for their iPhone 2G themself from HTC (Qtek 2020).
You are saying that the look and feel of the iPhone were copied from this? That's quite a stretch...http://pdadb.net/img/qtek2020.jpg

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 10:37 PM
If those are your agrument then the counter to pretty much everything apple and a lot of other saying others are coping is
How many ways can you make a slab touch screen device. Black and while are pretty much the primary professional looking colors.
Touch screen interface is commonly a grid.

What I find funny is the argument being used to defend Apple doing it all at once that list of coping is weaker than the how many ways can you make a slab argument.
It is a black slab device. Sorry but most things are going to look the same when you get to that point.

I have specifically said that the most recent act of Apple adding non-related devices is just plain ridiculous.

If you need one single word for this, I'd say: Atrocious or maybe Abomination.

Referring to the actual lawsuit, I was with Apple and I appreciated their concern and respect over their own IP and design decorum. But they seem to have lost me with this recent addition of non-related phones and I absolutely don't support this.

Again, referring to your comments in every other thread with respect to Apple copying notifications and BBM, etc, its getting ridiculous too. It is very true that Apple copied Android style notifications but its not that they had not existed before or Android was the first one to bring them in.

But yes, I could go on and on as to how Android copied a lot of iPhone features from the very beginning to become a great piece of software that it is now. [Still don't deny that Apple don't copy from competitors].

MacinDoc
Jun 18, 2011, 11:03 PM
When it comes to tablet PC's I don't know what people would like manufacturers to change in the frontal design. Going by that picture above, do you think the Xoom is an iPad clone also?
Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/img20110618221710.jpg/)

For me, my first experiences with tablet computing were with the HP TC1000's older brother, the TC1100 and I feel that a lot of modern tablet PC's are inspired by this design:
Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/tc11001.jpg/)
Image borrowed from Wikipedia

A clean, minimalistic design with no buttons on the front area is pretty much all I've seen from tablet manufacturers these days. The TC1000 did all of this years before the current crop of tablets.
I would say that this is a more likely source of inspiration...

http://static.lalawag.com/wp-content/uploads/star-trek-ipad-pad.jpg

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 11:23 PM
When device prominently features sign "Samsung" on the front side how stupid/illiterate one should be to confuse it with Apple? Before Apple filed this lawsuit, nobody ever mentioned that Samsung phones are so similar to iPhone that people were confusing them. Why? Because people did not confuse them.

Seriously?

People have continuously expressed concerns that touchwiz is extremely iOS like and the galaxy phones give an overall iPhone like appearance.

I recently went back to India and saw one of my nephew's phone. Holy... the phone was so very similar to the iPhone. It's not that I haven't used an android phone. I use to use an HTC desire before going for a mozart but that samsung one freaked me out. But as soon as I saw its keyboard, I was brought to senses that it wasn't an iPhone.

See that's the point. It's about confusing the consumer so that the consumer pays extra attention to your product. This is a very common practice in businesses but I have never experience it on such a level as it is b/w Samsung and Apple.

Lennholm
Jun 19, 2011, 11:13 AM
Apple has so much going for it here. Almost every smartphone is a direct copy of the iPhone, at least originally. We forget how the market looked in '07 when nothing like this existed, but from then on it was copy after copy. Android has definitely distinguished itself to a certain extent, but the app ecosystem was pioneered and perfected by Apple.

Nothing like this existed!? What about:
http://cdn1.mobilemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/image_56834_superimage.jpg
2002

Even if you dismiss the quality of these earlier touch-only phones and don't think the technology had matured enough, the concept was already well established when the iPhone came.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 19, 2011, 11:34 AM
Nothing like this existed!? What about:
Image (http://cdn1.mobilemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/image_56834_superimage.jpg)
2002

Even if you dismiss the quality of these earlier touch-only phones and don't think the technology had matured enough, the concept was already well established when the iPhone came.

yep the biggest change around 2007 was ccapacitive touch screens that support multi touch became cheap enough and good enough to put in cell phones. It is not like Apple invented them. Just the technology became available then.
Apple jumped on the tech a little earlier but it is very safe to say all the manufactures were working with it in R&D.

This is way you saw a lot of the same sensors start appearing in phones as well. They became cheap and good enough to work well.

neemer5
Jun 19, 2011, 05:56 PM
There no doubt that had Apple never turned it's attention towards mobile phones, the Samsung phones of today would have looked and behaved nothing like they do now.

Case closed.
Bring on the benjamins.


Yeah but that's like Ford suing everyone because they invented the steering wheel on the Model T. There are only so many ways you can skin a cat.

lilo777
Jun 19, 2011, 09:05 PM
Seriously?

People have continuously expressed concerns that touchwiz is extremely iOS like and the galaxy phones give an overall iPhone like appearance.

I recently went back to India and saw one of my nephew's phone. Holy... the phone was so very similar to the iPhone. It's not that I haven't used an android phone. I use to use an HTC desire before going for a mozart but that samsung one freaked me out. But as soon as I saw its keyboard, I was brought to senses that it wasn't an iPhone.

See that's the point. It's about confusing the consumer so that the consumer pays extra attention to your product. This is a very common practice in businesses but I have never experience it on such a level as it is b/w Samsung and Apple.

Again, before even turning the phone on, did not you see a sign that clearly said "Samsung"? Besides, even when you turn the phone on, the original (home) screen in TouchWiz looks nothing like iPhone. One needs to know how to go to application drawer to find UI page that does look similar to iPhone (and all other "grid of icons" type UIs). Is not it stupid of Samsung to hide iPhone-like page when all they want is to confuse people that this is an iPhone? I do not buy it for a second. Let's take a look at contemporary Galaxy S reviews. Here is a pre-view from Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/16/samsung-galaxy-s-preview/) from June of last year. The preview does not even mention the iPhone let along states that there is any similarity. And this is from a web site that tends to mention Apple at every opportunity.


Yeah but that's like Ford suing everyone because they invented the steering wheel on the Model T. There are only so many ways you can skin a cat.

And this comparison is also very good because Ford obviously did not invent the steering wheel just like Apple did not invent the phone or the icon or the grid of icons UI or the candy-bar phone format or touch screen or multi-touch or anything that they claim Samsung copied from them.

AidenShaw
Jun 19, 2011, 10:35 PM
And this comparison is also very good because Ford obviously did not invent the steering wheel just like Apple did not invent the phone or the icon or the grid of icons UI or the candy-bar phone format or touch screen or multi-touch or anything that they claim Samsung copied from them.

Waste of time.

Most Apple fans believe that Apple invented USB. Facts and prior art won't change their minds.

krischik
Jun 20, 2011, 12:48 AM
Funny thing is the iPhone has more Samsung components in it than most of you think.

Which is perhaps the reason why Apple is suing Samsung and not any other Android Manufacture. Not all 15+ Samsung Android devices look like an iPhone. And other Android manufactures have iPhone look alikes.

Maybe the real reason is a better deal for the iPhone displays. Or perhaps a preferred deal for next gen retina style AMOLED displays.

Year of the copy cats. Means year Apple copies everyone else.

They all copy from each other. But only Apple is making a fuss about it. Which reminds me: The new Samsung home screen looks more like Windows Phone 7 then iPhone.

Oh wait... that was the Apple Lisa.

Sure, good photos and screen shots from the Xerox Alto are hard to come by. And no, Apple did not invent the grid of icons.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 20, 2011, 03:31 AM
Waste of time.

Most Apple fans believe that Apple invented USB. Facts and prior art won't change their minds.

Who are those 'fans'?

I think its totally illogical to defame a particular group of people based on some assumptions by a very small number of people.
On another note, those kind of people fall for one or the other company and not just Apple.

KnightWRX
Jun 20, 2011, 06:15 AM
Sure, good photos and screen shots from the Xerox Alto are hard to come by. And no, Apple did not invent the grid of icons.

They are ? ;)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sY9FRN6Xib4/S64FbpKz3qI/AAAAAAAAOTc/YKoNH2wdnmw/s1600/xerox-star-8010-11.jpg

Hint : Xerox Alto is the hardware, Xerox Star is the system. Would you look at that nice little grid of icons on the right!