PDA

View Full Version : Spotify U.S. Launch Imminent, Raises $100m Round




MacRumors
Jun 17, 2011, 01:53 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/17/spotify-u-s-launch-imminent-raises-100m-round/)


Spotify is finally (almost) ready to launch in the U.S., closing deals with three of the four big music labels -- Warner Music, predictably (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/22/apple-inks-deal-with-warner-music-for-cloud-based-storage-rights/), is the lone holdout -- and a massive funding round (http://allthingsd.com/20110617/spotify-gearing-up-for-u-s-launch-closes-its-1-billion-round/), raising $100 million at a $1 billion valuation.

Spotify is a freemium music service, offering both free and paid subscription offerings, similar to Pandora (http://www.pandora.com/). Spotify lets users listen to whatever songs they wish, in whatever order they wish, rather than building "channels" of like music on Pandora.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/spotify-500x267.jpg


Spotify has a significant presence in Europe, with more than 1 million paid subscribers and 6 million ad-supported free users. In the US, it may face a more uphill climb with heavy new competition from from Google, Amazon, and Apple, plus there are existing music services from Rhapsody and the aforementioned Pandora. In fact, Apple has been rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/10/07/apple-trying-to-torpedo-spotifys-u-s-launch/) to have made efforts to prevent Spotify from being able to launch in the U.S.

Spotify plans to charge around $10 per month for its premium service, and allows users to stream millions of songs they don't own.

The company, founded in Sweden but based in London, raised $100 million from Digital Sky Technologies, Accel and Kleiner Perkins, all heavy hitters in the venture game. DST is a major investor in Facebook, which might help the two companies to make a deal. Spotify and Facebook are working on a "significant integration" according to All Things D's Peter Kafka, though that isn't tied to the U.S. launch. Facebook co-founder and CEO Mark Zuckerberg is a known Spotify fan (http://techcrunch.com/2009/08/25/mark-zuckerberg-spotify-is-so-good/).

Spotify has a decent war-chest, plus proven success and buzz from its European operations. If it can ink a deal with Warner, it might actually, finally, launch on this side of the pond.

Article Link: Spotify U.S. Launch Imminent, Raises $100m Round (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/17/spotify-u-s-launch-imminent-raises-100m-round/)



bb426
Jun 17, 2011, 01:58 PM
Hmmm... $25 for iTunes match, or $10 for Spotify...... For once, I might not go the Apple route.

"Apple has been rumored to have made efforts to prevent Spotify from being able to launch in the U.S."... Wow so Apple's just being Apple. I get it now.

bacaramac
Jun 17, 2011, 01:59 PM
It's gonna take a lot to move me away from Rhapsody since I use it on all my iOS devices as well as my Sonos setup. Even if Apple can bring a streaming service to the table, it will need to work with my Sonos or it's a no go. I no longer purchase music since I have Rhapsody.

TheJing
Jun 17, 2011, 02:00 PM
I've used Spotify for years now because I'm in Sweden during the summers and it is AMAZING. Give it a try. You won't be disappointed.

Heilage
Jun 17, 2011, 02:00 PM
Congrats, now you can partake in the awesome that is Spotify. It's a great music service, I've been happily paying for two years now.

I know that I'm just "renting" music, but it's so convenient to just be able to search for a song and listen to it in good quality immidiately. It's easier than pirating. :)

mrfrosty
Jun 17, 2011, 02:06 PM
Still no ipad app...and the iphone app sucks cheese balls. After all this time why is the software still so crappy......? I can only think they want to balance paying users against royalties paid out......i.e. the software is so crappy people don't use it so much !

arn
Jun 17, 2011, 02:06 PM
Hmmm... $25 for iTunes match, or $10 for Spotify...... For once, I might not go the Apple route.

"Apple has been rumored to have made efforts to prevent Spotify from being able to launch in the U.S."... Wow so Apple's just being Apple. I get it now.

$25/year vs $10/month :)

But they are very different services.

arn

bgmesh3
Jun 17, 2011, 02:07 PM
Hmmm... $25 for iTunes match, or $10 for Spotify...... For once, I might not go the Apple route.

"Apple has been rumored to have made efforts to prevent Spotify from being able to launch in the U.S."... Wow so Apple's just being Apple. I get it now.

Uh, and by that you mean $25 for iTunes Match, or $120 for Spotify, right? $10 is per month.

.11
Jun 17, 2011, 02:08 PM
They took too long, although it wasn't Spotify fault. I've been using Rdio and it's been pretty good so far.

dmkemick
Jun 17, 2011, 02:09 PM
They took too long, although it wasn't Spotify fault. I've been using Rdio and it's been pretty good so far.

I second this, I'm a big-time Rdio fan.

beaner454
Jun 17, 2011, 02:10 PM
It's amazing how much of an edge they've lost in the US. When I first demoed Spotify there was nothing that was as clean, polished, and easy to use as Spotify. Then during the years it took to get to the US market, lots of competitors have come to market, and now I'm not so sure I'll be leaving Rdio.

The only feature right now that I'd consider switching for is that you can add your mp3 files to the Spotify app on your iPhone. That way I can listen to my obscure stuff that Spotify doesn't have and still have my streaming music all in the same playlist.

Consultant
Jun 17, 2011, 02:11 PM
Hope it doesn't go the way of Pandora.

It's funny, with the internet stations taking over by ads (such as Pandora), I am now listening to more traditional radio on the iPad.

fswmacguy
Jun 17, 2011, 02:14 PM
People are here suggesting Pandora and Rhapsody (BLECK!).


I suggest Grooveshark. Use it once and Pandora is history.

Heilage
Jun 17, 2011, 02:14 PM
$25/year vs $10/month :)

But they are very different services.

arn

That they are. Spotify is for all the music you don't have.

LoganT
Jun 17, 2011, 02:17 PM
Hmmm... $25 for iTunes match, or $10 for Spotify...... For once, I might not go the Apple route.

"Apple has been rumored to have made efforts to prevent Spotify from being able to launch in the U.S."... Wow so Apple's just being Apple. I get it now.

25 dollars a YEAR for iTunes Match
10 dollars a MONTH for Spotify.

AAPLaday
Jun 17, 2011, 02:17 PM
Love Spotify. Shame its taken so long to get launched in the US. Us europeans have been loving it for ages now :D

carldavidguta
Jun 17, 2011, 02:18 PM
Welcome to the 21st century America! Spotify is absolutely amazing!

Heja Sverige!

LoganT
Jun 17, 2011, 02:19 PM
I appreciate services like Rdio, MOG, and Spotify. I just wish there was a way for them to integrate into the music app. It kind of sucks having all of your music and then have to switch to another app to hear more.

Thunderhawks
Jun 17, 2011, 02:21 PM
Hope it doesn't go the way of Pandora.

It's funny, with the internet stations taking over by ads (such as Pandora), I am now listening to more traditional radio on the iPad.

Especially AM stations benefit from the internet.

Wacker293
Jun 17, 2011, 02:23 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Hi spotify does work on Sonos here in the UK, so im guessing it will for you guys too.
Ps....the iphone app does suck cheese balls!

DPH
Jun 17, 2011, 02:30 PM
Spotify is owning Apple here, Spotify is just amazing! tbh, im going with the apple match because im an apple freak, but Spotify is really great! welcome to the 21 century America!

We in scandinavia have been there along time now!

bb426
Jun 17, 2011, 02:35 PM
$25/year vs $10/month :)

But they are very different services.

arn

Haha woops. I take that back. iTunes Match ftw.

antster94
Jun 17, 2011, 02:38 PM
I use Spotify and it's a great service. Millions of tracks at my disposal on my Mac for £4.99 a month. Worth it in my opinion.

Otaviano
Jun 17, 2011, 02:50 PM
Spotify is awful for the music industry in my opinion. No one will be making any money if it becomes mainstream. To think of all the musicians that have complained over the iTunes pay per song model, wait until you are collecting pennies on streaming royalties.

slu
Jun 17, 2011, 02:51 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

I am considering going to a subscription service. I just finished up my free trial with Rhapsody and am now testing rdio. I liked Rhapsody, but the iOS app crashed several times. All in all they seem pretty comparable thus far. So Spotify would be a nice addition for me at this time.

Anyone have any reasons why they prefer rdio, Rhapsody, Napster or MOG? Which do you use and why?

samcraig
Jun 17, 2011, 02:54 PM
somewhat apples and oranges here.

Apple match = songs YOU already own on demand
Spotify = any song in THEIR library on demand

Airforcekid
Jun 17, 2011, 02:54 PM
This is good news but I prefer MOG $10 too 320kbps and I can download and store unlimited songs on my phone. Spotify will have to have some great features for me to switch.

mrkramer
Jun 17, 2011, 02:55 PM
I'll be glad when this launches. I've been using it through a proxy for about a year, but I'll be glad when I don't have to use that proxy and I'll probably pay for premium to get the iPhone app.

darbus69
Jun 17, 2011, 03:11 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

$25/year vs $10/month :)

But they are very different services.

arn

That they are. Spotify is for all the music you don't have.

Internet radio (NME rocks) to enjoy and find new music and iTunes to buy and support the artist and apple...Win, Win, Win...

weckart
Jun 17, 2011, 03:12 PM
People are here suggesting Pandora and Rhapsody (BLECK!).


I suggest Grooveshark. Use it once and Pandora is history.

Try Spotify and you'll find Grooveshark so sloooow, plus the flash interface is unkind on older Macs.

thelonelylimo
Jun 17, 2011, 03:13 PM
Hmmm... $25 for iTunes match, or $10 for Spotify...... For once, I might not go the Apple route.

"Apple has been rumored to have made efforts to prevent Spotify from being able to launch in the U.S."... Wow so Apple's just being Apple. I get it now.

iTunes Match is $25 per YEAR. Spotify is $10 per MONTH.

Justinf79
Jun 17, 2011, 03:14 PM
So how does Spotify compare to Rdio and MOG? Anyone have a handy chart? :D

Rapscallion
Jun 17, 2011, 03:24 PM
They took too long, although it wasn't Spotify fault. I've been using Rdio and it's been pretty good so far.


Thank you for pointing me in the direction of Rdio, this is a great app.

bpaluzzi
Jun 17, 2011, 03:29 PM
Spotify is awful for the music industry in my opinion. No one will be making any money if it becomes mainstream. To think of all the musicians that have complained over the iTunes pay per song model, wait until you are collecting pennies on streaming royalties.

So, you're not a musician then?

deadkennedy
Jun 17, 2011, 03:29 PM
Ok Americans, get ready for CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP in 1 ... 2... 3....

Seriously, it is the worst designed app ever, especially for iPad. It's the same small ****** app that's there on iPhone. Total nonsense. I can't wait for iTunes Match or something similar and see if I can ditch Spotify forever.

bpaluzzi
Jun 17, 2011, 03:32 PM
Ok Americans, get ready for CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP in 1 ... 2... 3....

Seriously, it is the worst designed app ever, especially for iPad. It's the same small ****** app that's there on iPhone. Total nonsense. I can't wait for iTunes Match or something similar and see if I can ditch Spotify forever.

It's not designed for iPad. It's an iPhone app.

And it's fine. The navigation is a bit wonky, but it does what it's supposed to do. It's not in any way competing with iTunes Match. iTunes Match is access to only the music you already own. Spotify is access to music you don't own. I've been a Spotify Premium customer for a while now, and I haven't bought a single CD (physical or iTunes) since I signed up. £10 a month for as many new CDs as I want? On my computer and my phone? What's not to like??

bobr1952
Jun 17, 2011, 03:44 PM
Hope it doesn't go the way of Pandora.

It's funny, with the internet stations taking over by ads (such as Pandora), I am now listening to more traditional radio on the iPad.

It really isn't that expensive for their premium account with no ads--only $36 a year and you also get a higher bit rate (192Kbps)

ratzzo
Jun 17, 2011, 03:48 PM
Spotify is genius! You can even manage your music from there rather than annoying iTunes syncs. When Im in the US, I really miss not being able to log in. I hope this news is true! :)

MacFan23
Jun 17, 2011, 03:59 PM
This is good news but I prefer MOG $10 too 320kbps and I can download and store unlimited songs on my phone. Spotify will have to have some great features for me to switch.

Spotify does the same

sishaw
Jun 17, 2011, 03:59 PM
I use Spotify and it's a great service. Millions of tracks at my disposal on my Mac for £4.99 a month. Worth it in my opinion.

MOG is much the same deal in the US, and you can also download and store music on your iPhone. I'll be interested in what Spotify brings to the table. One thing MOG has going for it is high-quality (320 kbps) downloads.

Ha ha, someone beat me to it. (added)

bobr1952
Jun 17, 2011, 04:04 PM
^^
I'm listening to MOG now. I like the service and I don't have the portable edition so it is only $5 a month. The 320Kbps bitrate is what sold me and turned me away from Rhapsody.

JTToft
Jun 17, 2011, 04:06 PM
We in scandinavia have been there along time now!

- Excluding Denmark... It's still not available here!

Daveoc64
Jun 17, 2011, 04:07 PM
I posted this a while ago when asked about Spotify's feature set in another thread:

Spotify Premium (£9.99 per month) offers:

- Unlimited Streaming of over 10 million songs in their library on any number of supported devices with no ads
- Offline mode on up to 3 supported devices
- 320kbps Ogg Vorbis Streaming Quality on Computers (160kbps on Mobile Devices) - lower quality options are available if you need to save bandwidth
- Unlimited international travel (you can use the service in any country)
- Automatic synchronization of your playlists between all devices that you use
- Support for playing local files
- Social feature allowing you to view your friend's playlists (Including Facebook integration)



Supported devices:
A computer with:
Windows XP/Vista/7
Mac OS X 10.4.0+ (PowerPC G4/G5 or Intel)
Linux (Preview version available for Debian/Ubuntu, Wine works on other distributions)

A mobile device running:
iOS
Android
Symbian
Windows Phone
Palm Web OS

Other Devices:

Some Onkyo Home Cinema Receivers
Some Logitech Squeezebox models
Some Sonos products


This is also the cheaper Spotify Unlimited (£4.99 per month for unlimited 160kbps streaming on computers) or Spotify Free/Open (with ads) and no more than 5 plays per song.

MacFan23
Jun 17, 2011, 04:14 PM
MOG is much the same deal in the US, and you can also download and store music on your iPhone. I'll be interested in what Spotify brings to the table. One thing MOG has going for it is high-quality (320 kbps) downloads.

Ha ha, someone beat me to it. (added)

Oooops, sorry sir. Your response was much better than mine anyway :)

Everyone seems to be forgetting iTunes Match is $25 PLUS the cost of your music vs $120

Dagless
Jun 17, 2011, 04:16 PM
I never knew Spotify wasn't available in America! That's quite mad, in a way.

Certinfy
Jun 17, 2011, 04:16 PM
When I had my ****** SE Satio I used to use this, was great.

Kahnyl
Jun 17, 2011, 04:17 PM
What's the difference between Spotify and something like Rdio? I don't get the American fascination with it. Is it just that the country is so unaccustomed to not having something first? Does that make it seem like a rare and precious jewel?

I say this as a Spotify subscriber.

Nomadski
Jun 17, 2011, 04:34 PM
Call me uncool but I use Napster. Does exactly what the Daveoc64's post says, plus an extra 2 million songs in its catalogue, and 5 free full song downloads per month. Dunno why people use Spotify tbh.

swajames
Jun 17, 2011, 04:59 PM
Another Rdio user here - it is an excellent service. Totally different to iTunes Match which will only let you stream tracks that are in your existing library, Rdio gives you instant access and unrestricted to millions of tracks. For me it's well worth the limited cost of entry, particularly given the Sonos integration with the Rdio service.

zreoxx
Jun 17, 2011, 05:06 PM
Call me uncool but I use Napster. Does exactly what the Daveoc64's post says, plus an extra 2 million songs in its catalogue, and 5 free full song downloads per month. Dunno why people use Spotify tbh.

Well... 13 million tracks according to Spotify and better streaming quality?
Btw... Napster? Wasn't that the music service that Lars Ulrich killed :)

Anyways... I hope you get it soon in the US. You will like it, guaranteed :)

tog22
Jun 17, 2011, 05:18 PM
You're lucky, US users - this is very popular here in the UK. Personally I prefer GrooveShark but I'm not quite sure that's legal.

muguguypants
Jun 17, 2011, 05:32 PM
I've been using Slacker in the U.S. Don't know if you guys get it in Europe but has been pretty cool so far. They've recently launched a new release for iphone and ipad...couple of bugs here and there but all good. Probably one of the better ipad music apps. I'm a free user so can't say much about their premium stuff.
I did try the trial radio station caching before my flight and was awesome! Had a few stations i made up and listened to it on the plane without connection.

They also added the $10 premium level that supposedly allows you to listen and cache whatever you want.

steadysignal
Jun 17, 2011, 05:36 PM
$25/year vs $10/month :)

But they are very different services.

arn

indeed they are - and its tiring to read the repeated anti-usa hate on this product.

satkin2
Jun 17, 2011, 06:03 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I must be a rare European, someone who's not a big fan of Spotify. I can see how it can be useful, I've used the free ad supported service to preview a few Lbums before I purchased them, but this is being taken away as new albums get put on premium only for at least a month or two. I don't want to pay £5 a month just to see if I like something.

Paying for the service would be of no benefit to me either, i don't get good enough reception on my iPhone to stream music all day at work (when I'd listen most) and I don't have wifi at work either. Therefore it isn't a practical solution for me. I'm sure it is for many, but also, many will be in the same boat as me. Plus if you can stream to your device over the phone network you're using a large amount of data thus risking exceeding your cap and paying extra for it.

I've no doubt Spotify will do well in the US, but it isn't the be all and end all that some comentators would have it appear.

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 06:59 PM
Service......Songs.......Free(ads)..Unlimited..PCSoftware...PhoneApp

Spotify......13.million..yes........$10........app..........none
Rhapsody.....11.million..no.........$10........web..........app.
Napster......12.million..no.........$5.........web..........app.
MOG..........10.million..no.........$5.........web..........app.
RDIO.........unknown.....no.........$5.........web..........app.
YahooMusic...unknown.....yes........$5.........web..........app.
Grooveshark..unknown.....yes........$9.........web..........none(yes.for.jailbroken)


So, why should I get Spotify when other services are cheaper! and Spotify has no Phone App.
The only thing thats good about Spotify is that you can listen to free music with ads, but you can do that with yahoo and grooveshark as well.

LoganT
Jun 17, 2011, 07:34 PM
Service......Songs.......Free(ads)..Unlimited..PCSoftware...PhoneApp

Spotify......13.million..yes........$10........app..........none
Rhapsody.....11.million..no.........$10........web..........app.
Napster......12.million..no.........$5.........web..........app.
MOG..........10.million..no.........$5.........web..........app.
RDIO.........unknown.....no.........$5.........web..........app.
YahooMusic...unknown.....yes........$5.........web..........app.
Grooveshark..unknown.....yes........$9.........web..........none(yes.for.jailbroken)


So, why should I get Spotify when other services are cheaper! and Spotify has no Phone App.
The only thing thats good about Spotify is that you can listen to free music with ads, but you can do that with yahoo and grooveshark as well.

Spotify costs 10 dollars a month, the same as Rdio and MOG. There is a Spotify iOS app, it's just not in the US iTunes store.

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 07:36 PM
Spotify costs 10 dollars a month, the same as Rdio and MOG. There is a Spotify iOS app, it's just not in the US iTunes store.

Yes, you are right. RDIO is 10 for unlimited but MOG is 5 dollars.
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/10/mogs-5-per-month-music-service-highlights-spotify-obstacles/

Arne Hippler
Jun 17, 2011, 07:37 PM
Service......Songs.......Free(ads)..Unlimited..PCSoftware...PhoneApp

Spotify......13.million..yes........$10........app..........none
Rhapsody.....11.million..no.........$10........web..........app.
Napster......12.million..no.........$5.........web..........app.
MOG..........10.million..no.........$5.........web..........app.
RDIO.........unknown.....no.........$5.........web..........app.
YahooMusic...unknown.....yes........$5.........web..........app.
Grooveshark..unknown.....yes........$9.........web..........none(yes.for.jailbroken)


So, why should I get Spotify when other services are cheaper! and Spotify has no Phone App.
The only thing thats good about Spotify is that you can listen to free music with ads, but you can do that with yahoo and grooveshark as well.


That is so ill-informed....

Spotify has phone apps for:
iPhone, Android, Palm (webOS), Symbian, Windows 6 (and MS have demoed Spotify for WP7). There are probably more phones in the pipeline (together with the iPad app).

LoganT
Jun 17, 2011, 07:38 PM
I just collected this data from the websites right now. RDIO and MOG cost 5 dollars and not 10.

Mog and RDIO cost 5 dollars a month if you only want to stream from the desktop. If you want their mobile iOS app to work, you need to pay 10 dollars. Rhapsody is setup the same way.

Arne Hippler
Jun 17, 2011, 07:41 PM
I just collected this data from the websites right now. RDIO and MOG cost 5 dollars and not 10.

Well, 5 dollars (RDIO and MOG) are only for web access and not mobile. And Spotify has the same deal, where you pay half price (probably 5 dollars in the US) to unlimited music from your computer.

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 07:45 PM
Mog and RDIO cost 5 dollars a month if you only want to stream from the desktop. If you want their mobile iOS app to work, you need to pay 10 dollars. Rhapsody is setup the same way.

We want pricing based on full unlimited service to compare apples to apples.

LoganT
Jun 17, 2011, 07:48 PM
We want pricing based on full unlimited service to compare apples to apples.

10 dollars a month at MOG, Spotify, and Rdio gets you:

Unlimited songs
Access to all of those songs on a mobile device.
No Ads
320 KBPS (For MOG and Spotify)

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 07:50 PM
10 dollars a month at MOG, Spotify, and Rdio gets you:

Unlimited songs
Access to all of those songs on a mobile device.
No Ads
320 KBPS (For MOG and Spotify)

So, napster is the cheapest?

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 07:54 PM
That is so ill-informed....

Spotify has phone apps for:
iPhone, Android, Palm (webOS), Symbian, Windows 6 (and MS have demoed Spotify for WP7). There are probably more phones in the pipeline (together with the iPad app).

I can't find it in my US iTunes store.

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 07:58 PM
So, napster is the cheapest?

Napster is 8 dollars per month Annually and 10 dollars Monthly for unlimited and all devices.

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 08:00 PM
Service......Songs.......Free(ads)..Unlimited..PCSoftware...PhoneApp
Spotify......13.million..yes........$10........app..........none
Rhapsody.....11.million..no.........$10........web..........app.
Napster......12.million..no.........$10........web..........app.
MOG..........10.million..no.........$10........web..........app.
RDIO.........unknown.....no.........$10........web..........app.
YahooMusic...unknown.....yes........$5.........web..........app.
Grooveshark..unknown.....yes........$9.........web..........none(yes.for.jailbroken)


So, they are all pretty much 10 dollars per month for unlimited, downloadable to all devices, but Spotify does not have an iOS app in US Store.

frxntier
Jun 17, 2011, 08:04 PM
And when will we be getting this in Australia?

:mad:

caspersoong
Jun 17, 2011, 08:44 PM
Seeing as both are not available in most ASEAN countries, piracy will still be rampant, as piracy is fully open here with thousands of stores in shopping malls openly selling pirated cds and police happily buying from them.

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 08:58 PM
Wow, I just tried Grooveshark. It's awesome. Everything is free to all my favorite music.

AaronEdwards
Jun 17, 2011, 09:11 PM
I can't find it in my US iTunes store.

Considering that Spotify isn't available in the US yet, why would there be a Spotify app in the US iTunes Store?

iRobby
Jun 17, 2011, 10:03 PM
Hmmm... $25 for iTunes match, or $10 for Spotify...... For once, I might not go the Apple route.

"Apple has been rumored to have made efforts to prevent Spotify from being able to launch in the U.S."... Wow so Apple's just being Apple. I get it now.

You'll be paying more money Enjoy giving the money away

Apple= 12 months $25.00

Spotify= 1 month $10.00 x 12 months $120.00

chaosconan
Jun 17, 2011, 10:06 PM
Does anyone know what the bitstream is for Grooveshark?

LoganT
Jun 17, 2011, 10:21 PM
Wow, I just tried Grooveshark. It's awesome. Everything is free to all my favorite music.

It's also technically illegal.

deannnnn
Jun 17, 2011, 11:26 PM
Does Spotify carry songs owned by the major US music labels to their European customers? I would assume so, but do they have a deal in place currently to distribute the music outside of the US?

Anghammarad
Jun 18, 2011, 01:12 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Paying for the service would be of no benefit to me either, i don't get good enough reception on my iPhone to stream music all day at work (when I'd listen most) and I don't have wifi at work either. Therefore it isn't a practical solution for me. I'm sure it is for many, but also, many will be in the same boat as me. Plus if you can stream to your device over the phone network you're using a large amount of data thus risking exceeding your cap and paying extra for it.

If you are a premium user you have the option of listening to your playlists when you are offline. They can be downloaded to your phone.

Heilage
Jun 18, 2011, 01:58 AM
If you are a premium user you have the option of listening to your playlists when you are offline. They can be downloaded to your phone.

Yes, quite the handy feature when you want to limit the amount of bandwidth you use when you're out and about.


A lot of misinformation about Spotify here...

MacFan23
Jun 18, 2011, 03:07 AM
You'll be paying more money Enjoy giving the money away

Apple= 12 months $25.00

Spotify= 1 month $10.00 x 12 months $120.00

If you plan on never buying music again. When you consider the cost of music when using iTunes match that price gap is closed. Say you buy as little as 5 songs a month, that's more like $85 a year.

I like paying a fixed price for a streaming service, which gives me the option of easily managing and storing my music on all my devices.

Dr McKay
Jun 18, 2011, 03:18 AM
Yes, quite the handy feature when you want to limit the amount of bandwidth you use when you're out and about.


A lot of misinformation about Spotify here...

Very handy for me, also the Spotify programn in the desktop can sync files wirelessly to your mobile device when they are on the same network. I put all my playlists as offline incase of Internet failure or I have to move temporarily to where Internet is non existent.

Definitely have them as offline on my iPhone, I'm in the countryside and 3G is practically non-existent. So I download my playlists and listen to them on the go, without being interupted or using my data cap.

Since getting Spotify Premium, the only songs I've bought from iTunes are when Spotify doesn't have them.

Nomadski
Jun 18, 2011, 04:49 AM
Btw... Napster? Wasn't that the music service that Lars Ulrich killed :)


Lars isnt too keen on Spotify either from the looks of it. ;) Neither are the usual suspects of Beatles Led Zeppelin ACDC or Pink Floyd. Napster DOES at least have Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd..

Also to add to the Napster plug, you get artist radio and seasonal charts dating back to 1960. Not sure if any other streaming service hosts that.

Napster has 15 million tracks btw, 2 million more than Spotify.

Napster - http://www.napster.co.uk/
Spotify - http://www.spotify.com/uk/

MasterHowl
Jun 18, 2011, 05:28 AM
Hmmm... $25 for iTunes match, or $10 for Spotify...... For once, I might not go the Apple route.


This is a fail of the highest magnitude.

AaronEdwards
Jun 18, 2011, 05:40 AM
You'll be paying more money Enjoy giving the money away

Apple= 12 months $25.00

Spotify= 1 month $10.00 x 12 months $120.00

Well, people who are planning to use iTunes Match to match their pirated songs (and I'm still not sure that will actually work as people think it will), then paying the $25 would be better. Even better would be not paying Apple at all, since you already have all the music, and would only be paying to have it easily downloadable to all your iDevices.
And considering that the songs ripped from my own CDs is at a higher quality than what Apple offers, I would be downgrading and giving away money to Apple doing it...

Apple would never be able to offer the same service as Spotify and others do for just $25/year.

Apple still wants you to buy music through iTunes Store, so when it comes to consuming music, they are the past. But who can blame them, they have made billions thanks to their 30% cut.

Phil A.
Jun 18, 2011, 05:59 AM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 4: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/534.32 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

I used to be a spotify premium subscriber but cancelled it a few months ago over the total lack of an iPad app (or even a timescale as to if or when one will be coming). It's a good service but the software is terrible. The other thing to remember is that you can't really share accounts: if you have multiple devices logged in then playing music on one of them will pause it on of the others.

roadbloc
Jun 18, 2011, 06:11 AM
Service......Songs.......Free(ads)..Unlimited..PCSoftware...PhoneApp
Spotify......13.million..yes........$10........app..........none

Um... (http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/spotify/id324684580?mt=8)

Killyp
Jun 18, 2011, 06:15 AM
I'm not a fan of Spotify. I've had a Premium subscription for the last month and still isn't doing it for me.

No gapless playback
Compressed audio only (MP3, OGG, AAC etc... is not real sound, it is a toy)
160kbps streaming only to the iPhone, which sounds dreadful
Can't be streamed around the house
Bad content discovery system (in comparison to say, a good record store)
Artists don't get paid, simple as.

I'm a sound engineer, and having recorded quite a few artists who have appeared on both iTunes and Spotify, I know the damage Spotify does to their income. Using CD Baby, your music appears on Spotify after it appears on iTunes, and every time, iTunes income drops significantly when listeners switch over to Spotify. The income for musicians from Spotify is insignificant, verging on non-existant.

chaosconan
Jun 18, 2011, 07:20 AM
It's also technically illegal.

Is thats true wouldn't that make spotify illegal as well? They offer free music with ads as well.

mrkramer
Jun 18, 2011, 07:28 AM
So, they are all pretty much 10 dollars per month for unlimited, downloadable to all devices, but Spotify does not have an iOS app in US Store.

um... of course they don't have an app in the US store, it's not available yet. I'm sure they will add it to the US store on the day it becomes available in the US.


Is thats true wouldn't that make spotify illegal as well? They offer free music with ads as well.

I think the difference is Spotify has a liscense to do it legally whereas a lot of the other similar sites don't.

chaosconan
Jun 18, 2011, 07:38 AM
If I get Spotify or any other downloadable service and get 1 month unlimited subscription, then download all the music I want onto to my iPod Touch.
I then terminate my subscription.
What happens to all the music that was downloaded on my iPod Touch?
Can I still play them?
Do they expire immediately?
Do they expire after one month?
Or do they require some sort of authentication to play them which I don't have anymore because I stop the subscription?

paarsec
Jun 18, 2011, 07:57 AM
If I get Spotify or any other downloadable service and get 1 month unlimited subscription, then download all the music I want onto to my iPod Touch.
I then terminate my subscription.
What happens to all the music that was downloaded on my iPod Touch?
Can I still play them?
Do they expire immediately?
Do they expire after one month?
Or do they require some sort of authentication to play them which I don't have anymore because I stop the subscription?
You have to log in once every month, so i guess you would be able to listen to your music for one month after canceling your service.

AaronEdwards
Jun 18, 2011, 08:01 AM
If I get Spotify or any other downloadable service and get 1 month unlimited subscription, then download all the music I want onto to my iPod Touch.
I then terminate my subscription.
What happens to all the music that was downloaded on my iPod Touch?
Can I still play them?
Do they expire immediately?
Do they expire after one month?
Or do they require some sort of authentication to play them which I don't have anymore because I stop the subscription?

You can download 3,333 songs for offline listening. Spotify requires that you'll be online at least once a month to check that you still have a paid subscription, if you don't, then you can't play the songs stored on your device.

AaronEdwards
Jun 18, 2011, 08:05 AM
You have to log in once every month, so i guess you would be able to listen to your music for one month after canceling your service.

The app will know when your subscription runs out, so unless you lengthen the subscription and go online you won't be able to listen to the music.

daveathall
Jun 18, 2011, 08:28 AM
I subscribe to Spotify, quality and choice is excellent.

Apples $25 a year for songs one owns is $25 too much, I don‘t see the point, I’ll just sync the devices that I want the songs on. It can’t be that simple, I must be missing something.

bpaluzzi
Jun 18, 2011, 08:44 AM
I'm not a fan of Spotify. I've had a Premium subscription for the last month and still isn't doing it for me.

No gapless playback



What do you mean gapless playback? I've never had any issues with buffering or time between tracks.


Compressed audio only (MP3, OGG, AAC etc... is not real sound, it is a toy)

Give me a break. It's 320kbps. You can't hear a difference.


160kbps streaming only to the iPhone, which sounds dreadful

Again, give me a break.


Can't be streamed around the house

Except to anything with Airplay, or a Sonos. What else are you looking for?


Bad content discovery system (in comparison to say, a good record store)

Are you really saying that an app doesn't compare to a record store? Really? Wow.


Artists don't get paid, simple as.

False.



I'm a sound engineer, and having recorded quite a few artists who have appeared on both iTunes and Spotify, I know the damage Spotify does to their income. Using CD Baby, your music appears on Spotify after it appears on iTunes, and every time, iTunes income drops significantly when listeners switch over to Spotify. The income for musicians from Spotify is insignificant, verging on non-existant.

I'm an artist, and I know that if you have stuff that people actually listen to, you get a decent supplemental income from Spotify. Artists don't make money from recordings these days, regardless of the medium. You used to tour in order to sell more albums. Now you record albums to enable touring.

roblin
Jun 18, 2011, 09:46 AM
Spotify is great. Used to be an iTunes fanboy but have stopped using iTunes for spotify. Now I have everything on Spotify on my iPad and Iphone. Works great! Give it a try and decide yourself.

chaosconan
Jun 18, 2011, 10:16 AM
Does Spotify gives you the option to buy the music and download it to iPod leaving it there permanently and not disabling it if you decide to cancel the subscription?

AaronEdwards
Jun 18, 2011, 11:11 AM
Does Spotify gives you the option to buy the music and download it to iPod leaving it there permanently and not disabling it if you decide to cancel the subscription?

Yes, you can (http://www.spotify.com/se/about/features/buying-music/).

chaosconan
Jun 18, 2011, 11:21 AM
Yes, you can (http://www.spotify.com/se/about/features/buying-music/).

When buying the music, are the prices the same with iTunes and Amazon store?

pinchez
Jun 18, 2011, 11:30 AM
I Love Spotify, been using the free version for a couple of years now. The big problem I have with Spotify is it's too expensive. It's £120 a year for subscription, While that sounds cheap for the wealth of songs at your fingertips It's expensive in terms of how much I would normally spend on music over the year and there is no way I have ever spent £120 on music over the cause of a year accept for maybe when i was in my teens ;)

I think £4.99 for unlimited access would be more reasonable

AaronEdwards
Jun 18, 2011, 11:32 AM
When buying the music, are the prices the same with iTunes and Amazon store?

Don't know. I don't buy music from Spotify, don't see the need to. Actually, I don't buy almost any music since I started paying for Spotify.

It's another way to consume music. A better way. It's the future.

If you need to buy music, then I guess you got a third source to buy from. And then you can either compare them all, or just chose to buy music from one source.

Spotify does allow you to add locally stored music to your playlists, if you need to.

BitterMelon
Jun 18, 2011, 11:36 AM
No gapless playback
Gapless? I rarely have problems with buffering, and if you want to make sure, just use Offline mode (caches all songs and enables playback even if you are offline).

Compressed audio only (MP3, OGG, AAC etc... is not real sound, it is a toy)
As do... everyone else too? And at 320k OGG, who cares?

160kbps streaming only to the iPhone, which sounds dreadful
Because it's an iPhone, yes. 160k OGG doesn't sound "dreadful" in a good audio system.

Can't be streamed around the house
Yes it can. Airfoil is one way.

Bad content discovery system (in comparison to say, a good record store)
Random "radio" mode (with genre/era selections), social playlist sharing and related artists listings bad?

Artists don't get paid, simple as.
Yes, they do.

I'm a sound engineer, and having recorded quite a few artists who have appeared on both iTunes and Spotify, I know the damage Spotify does to their income. Using CD Baby, your music appears on Spotify after it appears on iTunes, and every time, iTunes income drops significantly when listeners switch over to Spotify. The income for musicians from Spotify is insignificant, verging on non-existant.
And yet the record companies are getting well paid from Spotify. If the artists are not getting their cut from their record company, it's not really Spotify's fault...

AaronEdwards
Jun 18, 2011, 11:38 AM
I Love Spotify, been using the free version for a couple of years now. The big problem I have with Spotify is it's too expensive. It's £120 a year for subscription, While that sounds cheap for the wealth of songs at your fingertips It's expensive in terms of how much I would normally spend on music over the year and there is no way I have ever spent £120 on music over the cause of a year accept for maybe when i was in my teens ;)

I think £4.99 for unlimited access would be more reasonable

Then my advice is to use something like iTunes instead. I guess you could buy up to 150 songs or so for £120, 75 for £60.

Personally I'm paying more than I used to. But then I like how easy it is and the fact that I have 13 million songs that I can listen to.

BitterMelon
Jun 18, 2011, 11:42 AM
I Love Spotify, been using the free version for a couple of years now. The big problem I have with Spotify is it's too expensive. It's £120 a year for subscription, While that sounds cheap for the wealth of songs at your fingertips It's expensive in terms of how much I would normally spend on music over the year and there is no way I have ever spent £120 on music over the cause of a year accept for maybe when i was in my teens ;)

I think £4.99 for unlimited access would be more reasonable
It's worth it because it's way more than running to a store and buying CDs. Pretty much any music there is, at any time you like, pretty much wherever you are and on pretty much any device.

And what's £/€/$10/month? Seriously? I pay way more just for the broadband connection to play it through, and the phone to play it on.

BLACKFRIDAY
Jun 18, 2011, 11:44 AM
Is the music quality in Spotify Unlimited (£4.99) good?

paarsec
Jun 18, 2011, 11:50 AM
Is the music quality in Spotify Unlimited (£4.99) good?

Same as premium, 320kbps. The only difference is that you can't use it on portable devices.

BitterMelon
Jun 18, 2011, 11:55 AM
Same as premium, 320kbps. The only difference is that you can't use it on portable devices.

No, according to the Spotify site it's not ("Enhanced sound quality" is not checked in the list). So that would mean 160k, no mobile streaming and no offline mode for Unlimited.

(Swedish site)

petrucci666
Jun 18, 2011, 11:59 AM
What I don't understand is - why is everyone just waiting for Spotify to arrive in the US when there is Rdio?

It's the same damn thing and cheaper! $10/month compared to almost $20 a month in Europe!

I really don't get it. Rdio has all the songs, you can make playlists, match your iPod collection, offline mode, playlists created by others, top charts, the 'What's Hot' section. And not to mention that the app is x100 nicer than Spotify.


RDIO!!!!!

LoganT
Jun 18, 2011, 12:17 PM
Is thats true wouldn't that make spotify illegal as well? They offer free music with ads as well.

Yes, with the blessing of the record labels.

Killyp
Jun 18, 2011, 12:18 PM
What do you mean gapless playback? I've never had any issues with buffering or time between tracks.

As in I get gaps between tracks. Pretty simple really?


Give me a break. It's 320kbps. You can't hear a difference.

There is definitely a difference, especially when it comes to listening for extended periods. OGG is just plain fatiguing...


Again, give me a break.

:confused:


Except to anything with Airplay, or a Sonos. What else are you looking for?

I can't get AirPlay to stream Spotify except through my iPhone, which sounds dreadful (160kbps).


Are you really saying that an app doesn't compare to a record store? Really? Wow.

:rolleyes:


False.

Give me one shred of evidence of how musicians can earn more money through recorded music on Spotify than they can through iTunes.




I'm an artist, and I know that if you have stuff that people actually listen to, you get a decent supplemental income from Spotify. Artists don't make money from recordings these days, regardless of the medium. You used to tour in order to sell more albums. Now you record albums to enable touring.

I completely disagree on so many levels but there we go, I've learned in the past what happens if you get into discussions about the music industry on this forum...

LoganT
Jun 18, 2011, 12:23 PM
You know, MOG streams at 320 Kbps on the iPhone. It's stupid that Spotify doesn't so the same.

chaosconan
Jun 18, 2011, 12:23 PM
After looking at all the options I think the best thing would be to use Spotify (free with ads) or Grooveshark (free with ads) to listen to unlimited music and try them out.
If I find ones that I really like and enjoy use iTunes to buy the songs and make it available in my iCloud so that it can be downloaded to my Macbook, iPod, iPad and also my work PC with iTunes . :)

bpaluzzi
Jun 18, 2011, 12:27 PM
As in I get gaps between tracks. Pretty simple really?

You're the only person with this issue then. Must be your golden ears.


There is definitely a difference, especially when it comes to listening for extended periods. OGG is just plain fatiguing...


Ahh yup, those golden ears again.


I can't get AirPlay to stream Spotify except through my iPhone, which sounds dreadful (160kbps).


Golden ears are a curse, I suppose.


Give me one shred of evidence of how musicians can earn more money through recorded music on Spotify than they can through iTunes.

You're pushing a false dichotomy. You (like the record labels that don't "get it") assume that if someone didn't have access to the songs on Spotify that they'd buy them on iTunes (or some other method). That couldn't be farther from the truth.


I completely disagree on so many levels but there we go, I've learned in the past what happens if you get into discussions about the music industry on this forum...

There's nothing to disagree about -- those are the facts. Touring is where the income is. Not sure how you can possibly disagree with that.

Arne Hippler
Jun 18, 2011, 01:49 PM
Give me one shred of evidence of how musicians can earn more money through recorded music on Spotify than they can through iTunes.



http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/08/biggest-record-label-earns-more-from-spotify-than-itunes-in-sweden/

That's obviously from Sweden, but that's where Spotify has been around for the longest. So if the labels share their money (yeah, right ;) there is your "shred of evidence". I also know that I read somewhere about an indie electronica musician blogging about now earning more from Spotify than iTunes.

paarsec
Jun 18, 2011, 02:00 PM
No, according to the Spotify site it's not ("Enhanced sound quality" is not checked in the list). So that would mean 160k, no mobile streaming and no offline mode for Unlimited.

(Swedish site)

I stand corrected. Oh well, I can't hear a difference anyway. Most people care even less about sound quality than me, this is only an issue for very few customers.

BitterMelon
Jun 18, 2011, 02:16 PM
I stand corrected. Oh well, I can't hear a difference anyway. Most people care even less about sound quality than me, this is only an issue for very few customers.
And it's not really likely that people will try to play the off their phones through a good enough sound system to make a difference. Better then to get less bandwidth usage and (likely) less CPU usage/battery drain while decoding.

Azathoth
Jun 18, 2011, 05:14 PM
I stand corrected. Oh well, I can't hear a difference anyway. Most people care even less about sound quality than me, this is only an issue for very few customers.

I can hear the difference between Spotify low bit rate from my MBP and a CD, when both are played through my hifi. With Spotify high bitrate I can't detect a difference (non-blind AB testing).

FWIW speakers are a pair of B&W 805, CD: Rebecca Karijord.

For my musical tastes, listening environment and ears Spotify is good enough.

The main advantage of Spotify is that it's totally cross platform (even running on my old Nokia!), and has enough variety of music to make discovery interesting. Lack of Metallica & PF is a non-issue - I have those (legally) already - so I can add them to the Spotify app.

Moreover I really prefer the Spotify application on the Mac - the colour scheme and usability are miles better than iTunes. Apple could learn a lot from Spotify in that regard.

ruvil
Jun 18, 2011, 07:43 PM
I am not really sure that the spotify release in the US might be any good for the rest of us. There has been som crazy changes in their policy lately which is really un-spotify.

Their free service is really disgusting nowadays, too much ads and weird limits on how much you're allowed to listen to the music etc.

When they first started it was free to listen how much you ever wanted with a slight 1 minute interruption for ads every now and then - which was fine. But now it's just all pure madness.

Obviously im not sure it's the case, but i think that it is because the record companies have pressured them for these changes in order for a US release to go through.

What will happen next? Same thing like iTunes store? Only some things avaliable for people outside the us? :mad:

chaosconan
Jun 18, 2011, 09:35 PM
I am not really sure that the spotify release in the US might be any good for the rest of us. There has been som crazy changes in their policy lately which is really un-spotify.

Their free service is really disgusting nowadays, too much ads and weird limits on how much you're allowed to listen to the music etc.

When they first started it was free to listen how much you ever wanted with a slight 1 minute interruption for ads every now and then - which was fine. But now it's just all pure madness.

Obviously im not sure it's the case, but i think that it is because the record companies have pressured them for these changes in order for a US release to go through.

What will happen next? Same thing like iTunes store? Only some things avaliable for people outside the us? :mad:

Well, if this is true then I'm going to stay with Grooveshark. I've been trying it out and they don't have weird ads poping up or disrupting my music selection playback.

Tyre
Jun 18, 2011, 10:08 PM
I don't know that this is going to catch on in the US. I think we are too attached to owning our music for now, but who knows.

Tyre
Jun 18, 2011, 10:10 PM
Well, people who are planning to use iTunes Match to match their pirated songs (and I'm still not sure that will actually work as people think it will), then paying the $25 would be better. Even better would be not paying Apple at all, since you already have all the music, and would only be paying to have it easily downloadable to all your iDevices.
And considering that the songs ripped from my own CDs is at a higher quality than what Apple offers, I would be downgrading and giving away money to Apple doing it...

Apple would never be able to offer the same service as Spotify and others do for just $25/year.

Apple still wants you to buy music through iTunes Store, so when it comes to consuming music, they are the past. But who can blame them, they have made billions thanks to their 30% cut.

Right but the pirated music that you do get matched is upgraded automatically to much higher quality. So it makes a lot of sense

deftdrummer
Jun 19, 2011, 02:21 AM
A day late and $1M short, I'm afraid. Spotify was dead when Rdio launched and the nail in the coffin in the US domestic market will be iCloud / iTunes in the cloud.

Just my two cents, so don't flame, but there's no denying that the music streaming market was prime for Spotify in the US about 6 months ago. Not so much anymore.

Killyp
Jun 19, 2011, 04:14 AM
You're the only person with this issue then. Must be your golden ears.

What are you on about?! There is a VERY audible gap between tracks. Pretty much every other bit of kit I own to play music on will play gaplessly. Even my 20 year old CD player can play without gaps.


Ahh yup, those golden ears again.

I really don't know what you're on about. 320kbps OGG is definitely a step back from 44.1k PCM. IMO Spotify is a step back from CD in most ways, except of course it's much quicker to get hold of (for the impatient listener), it's free, and it doesn't take up any physical space.


Golden ears are a curse, I suppose.

Seems like you're on bit of a personal mission. It'd be nice if we could keep this conversation mature (famous last words).


You're pushing a false dichotomy. You (like the record labels that don't "get it") assume that if someone didn't have access to the songs on Spotify that they'd buy them on iTunes (or some other method). That couldn't be farther from the truth.

Well your 'truth' is quite different to my 'truth'. Several of the artists I have worked with have earned significantly less when adding their music to Spotify...



There's nothing to disagree about -- those are the facts. Touring is where the income is. Not sure how you can possibly disagree with that.

Touring really doesn't bring in enough money to earn even a vaguely significant amount of money. Several musicians I have recorded gave up day jobs to go on tour, and have really, really struggled for money since. Unless you're a high-flying touring artists with a large public profile, you'd need to be touring 6 days a week throughout the entire year without a break to even earn minimum wage in the UK.


http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/08/biggest-record-label-earns-more-from-spotify-than-itunes-in-sweden/

That's obviously from Sweden, but that's where Spotify has been around for the longest. So if the labels share their money (yeah, right ;) there is your "shred of evidence". I also know that I read somewhere about an indie electronica musician blogging about now earning more from Spotify than iTunes.

That's not really evidence, this article contains no statistics, or information about how much money was pumped into marketing for those artists. For the indie guys who have a small fan-base in their local city, it's much more difficult.

Lady Ga Ga Earns £108 from Spotify (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/spotify-1-million-plays-163108-return-1944051.html)

bpaluzzi
Jun 19, 2011, 04:47 AM
What are you on about?! There is a VERY audible gap between tracks. Pretty much every other bit of kit I own to play music on will play gaplessly. Even my 20 year old CD player can play without gaps.


I see what you mean -- taking the gap that was recorded on the album and removing it. If that's important to you, then no, Spotify can't do that.


I really don't know what you're on about. 320kbps OGG is definitely a step back from 44.1k PCM. IMO Spotify is a step back from CD in most ways, except of course it's much quicker to get hold of (for the impatient listener), it's free, and it doesn't take up any physical space.

Seems like you're on bit of a personal mission. It'd be nice if we could keep this conversation mature (famous last words).


I am on a personal mission of sorts. Physics and double-blind tests show that there's absolutely no difference between 160kbps and CD-quality. To be arguing this about 320kbps is absolutely ridiculous.


Well your 'truth' is quite different to my 'truth'. Several of the artists I have worked with have earned significantly less when adding their music to Spotify...


False dichotomy, backed up by false correlation.




Touring really doesn't bring in enough money to earn even a vaguely significant amount of money. Several musicians I have recorded gave up day jobs to go on tour, and have really, really struggled for money since. Unless you're a high-flying touring artists with a large public profile, you'd need to be touring 6 days a week throughout the entire year without a break to even earn minimum wage in the UK.


Yup. Being a musician is hard work. If you think it's tough to make a livable wage touring, try doing it selling CDs.



Lady Ga Ga Earns £108 from Spotify (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/spotify-1-million-plays-163108-return-1944051.html)


Yeah, except that it's not true. That's been disproven for over a year now. If she was really making what that report says, would she debut her new album exclusively on Spotify?
http://www.spotify.com/se/blog/archives/2011/05/13/lady-gagas-new-album-born-this-way-to-debut-exclusively-on-spotify/

Killyp
Jun 19, 2011, 05:04 AM
I see what you mean -- taking the gap that was recorded on the album and removing it. If that's important to you, then no, Spotify can't do that.

:confused: I really have no idea what you're missing. Every Mac I use Spotify on (Mac Pro in the studio right through to the MacBook Pros I use for location recording) all give me gaps between songs. Even on my iPhone. The same album on CD (heck even vinyl or cassette) however, does not.


I am on a personal mission of sorts. Physics and double-blind tests show that there's absolutely no difference between 160kbps and CD-quality. To be arguing this about 320kbps is absolutely ridiculous.

You couldn't be more wrong, but there we go. I could quite easily tell you the difference between 160kbps and PCM audio, but if you want to go on believing that 160kbps OGG Vorbis is great, then go ahead.



Yup. Being a musician is hard work. If you think it's tough to make a livable wage touring, try doing it selling CDs.

It used to be possible, heck I used to do it. Spotify and online music in general has made it a lot more difficult.

And yes, of course being a musician is hard work. Being a full-time musician earning money off your own music has in fact become a lot more difficult in recent years, which is why so many more artists have to hold down jobs in education. It's worrying how many music colleges/conservatoires around the world are now training their pupils primarily to become teachers, because that's where the most money is in the music world at the moment...



Yeah, except that it's not true. That's been disproven for over a year now. If she was really making what that report says, would she debut her new album exclusively on Spotify?
http://www.spotify.com/se/blog/archives/2011/05/13/lady-gagas-new-album-born-this-way-to-debut-exclusively-on-spotify/

I don't know why she released her new album exclusively on Spotify, but that's besides the point, and completely irrelevant. Maybe because most people over in the UK now don't bother with iTunes, or buying music in favour of Spotify...

bpaluzzi
Jun 19, 2011, 05:12 AM
You couldn't be more wrong, but there we go. I could quite easily tell you the difference between 160kbps and PCM audio, but if you want to go on believing that 160kbps OGG Vorbis is great, then go ahead.


Please do. Enlighten all of us. Seriously.



It used to be possible, heck I used to do it. Spotify and online music in general has made it a lot more difficult.

Agreed. But that genie is out of the lamp now. And now, the facts remain that CDs are sold to promote tours (and to increase exposure for sync licensing, but that's a whole other kettle of fish). There's a reason artists are giving away CDs for free, and it's certainly not out of the goodness of their heart.


And yes, of course being a musician is hard work. Being a full-time musician earning money off your own music has in fact become a lot more difficult in recent years, which is why so many more artists have to hold down jobs in education. It's worrying how many music colleges/conservatoires around the world are now training their pupils primarily to become teachers, because that's where the most money is in the music world at the moment...

Most of the state schools are in this position, but they've been that way for a long time. There have always been orders of magnitude more music teaching jobs than music performance jobs. Many of the conservatories don't even have music education as a major -- they're still focused on performance (often to the detriment of students -- many of the conservatories still frown upon instrument doubling, which is absolutely essential for a modern musician)



I don't know why she released her new album exclusively on Spotify, but that's besides the point, and completely irrelevant. Maybe because most people over in the UK now don't bother with iTunes, or buying music in favour of Spotify...

It's tangential to the argument, but I'm just using it as proof that she couldn't have been wronged as much as those initial reports said she was.

Look. We're both passionate about music. We'd probably get along quite well in the real world. Friendly argument at the pub kind of thing. I apologize for maybe setting the wrong tone off the bat. We obviously have different opinions on things, but I (honestly) don't mean any of it personally. My most spirited and chair-throwing arguments are with my best friends :-)

stevensr123
Jun 19, 2011, 05:19 AM
don't know why people are comparing it to icloud or what ever its called.

for one, you can't stream music from icloud, 2. you actually have to buy all that music to have it in the cloud. if you don't have much music but want to listen to millions of tracks, then spotify will save you hundreds, even thousands in the long run.

either way, i reckon it will be massive in the US if they market it correctly. im suprised a huge company has not bought it yet considering how popular it is in Europe. almost everyone i know has it.

stevensr123
Jun 19, 2011, 05:22 AM
Right but the pirated music that you do get matched is upgraded automatically to much higher quality. So it makes a lot of sense

but then again, if people are doing this regularly, most likely the music industry will try to crack it down even harder and force apples hand.

we also still know how this match works, can they tell if something is pirated or not? or is it impossible?

Killyp
Jun 19, 2011, 05:45 AM
Please do. Enlighten all of us. Seriously.

I really can't do that through an online forum. Sit down in front of a decent pair of speakers driven with decent electronics in a good room and I'd be surprised if any decent musician/music-lover couldn't tell the difference between 160kbps OGG vorbis and PCM audio.



Agreed. But that genie is out of the lamp now. And now, the facts remain that CDs are sold to promote tours (and to increase exposure for sync licensing, but that's a whole other kettle of fish). There's a reason artists are giving away CDs for free, and it's certainly not out of the goodness of their heart.

I completely agree with you there. It doesn't make me like Spotify any more, I don't like what it's done to the industry and as an engineer, it has made my life a whole lot more difficult.


Most of the state schools are in this position, but they've been that way for a long time. There have always been orders of magnitude more music teaching jobs than music performance jobs. Many of the conservatories don't even have music education as a major -- they're still focused on performance (often to the detriment of students -- many of the conservatories still frown upon instrument doubling, which is absolutely essential for a modern musician)

True, but for the VERY few that really do go on to become some of the top performers in the world, it's worthwhile. I know a few people who have gone on to play in the BBC NOW, (and still don't earn decent money) and I'd say it's vitally important that we have establishments which are able to train world class performers. This is a whole (very interesting) different conversation though, one which can go on for quite some time...




It's tangential to the argument, but I'm just using it as proof that she couldn't have been wronged as much as those initial reports said she was.

I don't believe those initial reports are all that wrong, it's just become a HECK of a lot more difficult to earn money from recorded music, and Spotify is really not helping.

Neither do I believe that the extra income from exposure through Spotify is all that significant (YouTube is still the main source in that respect), but that's just a personal hunch. I haven't seen any figures or statistics to back that up so I could be quite wrong.


Look. We're both passionate about music. We'd probably get along quite well in the real world. Friendly argument at the pub kind of thing. I apologize for maybe setting the wrong tone off the bat. We obviously have different opinions on things, but I (honestly) don't mean any of it personally. My most spirited and chair-throwing arguments are with my best friends :-)

Likewise, I think it's important to have good balanced conversations about something like Spotify. So far I feel this thread has been pretty unbalanced in the 'pro-Spotify' camp, and I think it's important people are aware of the issues (whether they are showing at the coal face or not).

There are strong arguments both ways for Spotify, and I think it's fairly clear which side of the fence we both sit on! :rolleyes:

ruvil
Jun 19, 2011, 05:58 AM
Well, if this is true then I'm going to stay with Grooveshark. I've been trying it out and they don't have weird ads poping up or disrupting my music selection playback.

I agree. My premium account at spotify will run out in a couple of days and instead of renewing it i guess i'll stick to my pirated music for a while :P

AaronEdwards
Jun 19, 2011, 07:23 AM
...

Your arguments rely a bit too much on personal views, personal anecdotes, and old false reporting.

Now, Spotify might not be what you want. Much as iTunes might not be for a lot of people either. But we are all still free to chose what we want, Apple, or anyone else, isn't forcing us to consume music a certain way. You can buy through iTunes instead or you can buy physical cds and rip them yourself.

I believe that Spotify/Rdio/MOG is an improvement over iTunes much as buying digital songs was an improvement over buying physical cds. Obviously they all have their drawbacks.

But one thing is sure, just because I think one thing, I'm not going to assume that that's the best way for everybody else, nor am I going to use personal anecdotes or discredited reporting to argue my point.

Mac32
Jun 19, 2011, 12:22 PM
This discussion is a bit counter-productive, but it all comes down to how expensive or hi-end your stereo system is. If you have a standard, run-of-the-mill stereo system, you may or may not hear a difference betwenn 160kbit OGG and PCM audio. At 320kbit you would need a fairly expensive stereo to hear a difference. My stereo is in the upper midrange, and I've tried to hear a difference between 320kbit and CD-quality - and I cannot. ..and I'm musician and would like to think I am fairly picky about sound quality. The "ear fatigue" argument is interesting, some times when I play my iTunes lossless music I think "Wow, this sounds great, surely better than Spotify"...but there's a lot of placebo involved here too. That's why everybody is talking about blind tests, and not how a certain bitrate make you feel or whatever.. :cool:

Anghammarad
Jun 20, 2011, 02:52 AM
I really can't do that through an online forum. Sit down in front of a decent pair of speakers driven with decent electronics in a good room and I'd be surprised if any decent musician/music-lover couldn't tell the difference between 160kbps OGG vorbis and PCM audio.


Sit down in front of an average to poor pair of speakers or a computer speaker system which is what 99% of the people are using and then tell me that there's a clearly audible difference between 320 kbit OGG and a CD and I will tell you you are imagining things.

drohr
Jun 20, 2011, 03:08 AM
What has this "rumor" to do with Mac? This isn't MediaRumors or AudioRumors. Its MacRumors. Spotify isn't a Mac-Only app. It doesn't even have an iPad version. Apple has nothing to do with the company. So why it on the front page?

Can't understand why this story is still getting free advertisement all over. There are other music services out there.

LoganT
Jun 20, 2011, 03:31 AM
What has this "rumor" to do with Mac? This isn't MediaRumors or AudioRumors. Its MacRumors. Spotify isn't a Mac-Only app. It doesn't even have an iPad version. Apple has nothing to do with the company. So why it on the front page?

Can't understand why this story is still getting free advertisement all over. There are other music services out there.

It competes with iTunes, which is made by Apple.

drohr
Jun 20, 2011, 03:39 AM
Dell competes with Apple, HP competes with Apple. Microsoft competes with Apple. Netflix competes with Apple.

Every digital company competes with Apple now days. I want to hear MacRumors, not rumors from their competitors.

AAPLaday
Jun 20, 2011, 03:47 AM
Dell competes with Apple, HP competes with Apple. Microsoft competes with Apple. Netflix competes with Apple.

Every digital company competes with Apple now days. I want to hear MacRumors, not rumors from their competitors.

Spotify as an app is available for both the mac and the iOS app store. If you don't want to read the article then you don't have to.

macsmurf
Jun 20, 2011, 04:45 AM
I completely agree with you there. It doesn't make me like Spotify any more, I don't like what it's done to the industry and as an engineer, it has made my life a whole lot more difficult.


Spotify hasn't done anything to the industry. The industry did it to themselves by refusing to acknowledge that a digital market existed and that consumers were moving towards it. Seriously, it wasn't really much of a secret but I guess the record companies were thinking short term. They ignored the inevitable for about a decade before Apple came along and bought the rights cheaply and the rest sort of played out as expected.

It's not really a coincidence that the biggest music store in the world is owned by a computer company.

The music industry is finally maturing in this field. The movie industry is still a tween and book publishers are a three year old, and they are doing the same mistakes made twice already.

The only industry actually behaving sensibly is the gaming industry which has been around since the '80. If the rest of the content industry had any brains they would have taken a look at their play book.

But they didn't and here we are.

umbilical
Jun 20, 2011, 02:07 PM
I have it for some time... and yeah is great. BUT!!!!! Im from old school, I like NOOOOOOO LOSSYYYYY MUSIC! I still prefer CDs! and rip to my mac...

but yeah services like spotify is the future of music... No downloads, no medias (cds etc...)

by the way VINYL still is the best! I prefer over cds... etc...

Im an audiophile ;)

Daveoc64
Jun 20, 2011, 02:14 PM
You know, MOG streams at 320 Kbps on the iPhone. It's stupid that Spotify doesn't so the same.

Technically Spotify shouldn't even offer 160kbps streaming on the iPhone - it's against the App Store rules to use that much data.

I have no idea what MOG does, but if it is on the App Store it's violating the App Store rules and should be pulled by Apple.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 20, 2011, 04:27 PM
I hope so.

GulGnu
Jun 21, 2011, 05:04 AM
Still no ipad app...and the iphone app sucks cheese balls. After all this time why is the software still so crappy......?

Spotify is my go-to music solution and has been so for some time now. Exactly what about the iOS app "sucks cheese balls". I find that it works very well.

Also, Spotify isn´t just a "streaming service", it also stores music on your device (iOS, Android), so it is fully useable with iPod Touches, and doesn´t hurt your data plan on the go.

Overall, a great service.

/End of puff piece