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How Lion installer works - I hope this clears up some confusion :)

how would you do a complete re-install?

most of the people, like me, have snow leopard installed and will simply download lion over the app store and click the install button.

but what if I would like to do a complete re-install of my system? Can I simply copy the installation file to a USB stick and start the installation from there?
 
simsaladimbamba said:
You can do a clean install with Lion:

Creating a bootable OS X 10.7 Lion disc (Update: …and USB stick)
Click to expand...

that would mean that people who are still on Leopard only, could go to an apple store, login to the app store on one of the macbooks there and download lion to a usb stick and do a fresh install, great!

that also means, I can always download the latest lion version through the app store and can do a fresh install without having to update to the latest version after the installation.

still, doesnt seem to be very user friendly the whole process of burning an image to a dvd or creating a bootable usb stick. before, people just had to put in their installation disk. I dont really mind because I wont have the problem of creating a bootable usb stick but others probably will. I guess they will make this somehow easier for non-tech people.
 
It is blindingly obvious that Apple are not so stupid as to leave out the "clean install" option, and I can only say that the panic is down to the fact that the majority of people fussing and disputing over it, have little to zero technical knowledge when it comes to the intricacies of hard disks & OS installion methods.

Why would there NOT be this option? Again, speculation by those lesser inclined toward the tech side, creates mass panic and FUD! I am not saying we should *all* be geeks, but I am saying is trust Apple, because they're the designers, and know a LOT more than any of us, and mass hysteria is not going to win over calm and well thought-out logic, anytime soon.

FWIW, the installer works EXACTLY how I envisaged it would, seconds after hearing about the App Store purchase method, on the keynote.

PS: I hardly think that Apple's approved method for multiple installations from the same App Store download, will be right-click >> Show package contents, do you?

🙄
 
Last edited:
glossywhite said:
PS: I hardly think that Apple's approved method for multiple installations from the same App Store download, will be right-click >> Show package contents, do you?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that Apple will change something between now and the release in July to address that?

I think when you double click the downloaded file, it should simply prompt you: "Install Lion, or create a Boot Disk?". Or have a giant Install Lion button, with a tiny "more options" button that will take care of the boot disk and whatever else.
 
It's just a guess on my side, but if you do a clean install and then use a (TM)-backup to copy back user accounts and programms you achieve absolut nothing in comparisson to an upgrade. Why? The installer probably overwrites all system files and folders on your current installation anyway and resets all config files to default. (files and folders by third party programms in the library folders excluded). Any software that requires to be integrated into the system files /foldeers should be reinstalled with a Lion compatible version anyway - so no loss there.

There might be a few old config files in the library folder on Macintosh HD you would get rid of, but those files only should take up a few MB and they don't do any harm if they are sitting unused on the harddisk. And of course, you'd loose any files related to programms you still use stored there. You'd have to reinstall/ reconfigure your applications. The average user doesn't need to do a clean install, there's just no benefit to it.

And if you insist on doing a clean install, upgrade your current installation to Lion, then boot into the recovery partition and use the disk utily there to format your harddriv and then reinstall Lion from there. No media required. You can redownload the Lion installer from the recovery partition. Media options is only for those without a internet connection capable of redownloading Lion in the rare case that you need to do a clean install.
 
Meriana said:
And if you insist on doing a clean install, upgrade your current installation to Lion, then boot into the recovery partition and use the disk utily there to format your harddriv and then reinstall Lion from there. No media required. You can redownload the Lion installer from the recovery partition. Media options is only for those without a internet connection capable of redownloading Lion in the rare case that you need to do a clean install.
Click to expand...
*bzzzzt* bad suggestion. Why should I wait 4 to 6 hours to re-download Lion to do a reinstall? Some people do have faster internet connections, many have slower. Some people have bandwidth caps, more will have them all too soon apparently. Also the time to do the Snow Leopard -> Lion Upgrade is wasted time in your scenario.
 
baryon said:
Are you saying that Apple will change something between now and the release in July to address that?

I think when you double click the downloaded file, it should simply prompt you: "Install Lion, or create a Boot Disk?". Or have a giant Install Lion button, with a tiny "more options" button that will take care of the boot disk and whatever else.
Click to expand...

How could you, or I or anyone possibly know? It hasn't been released yet!

My thread pertains to the technical nature of how Lion installs itself and uses partitions, NOT to what installer UI options will be present. I _have_ to tell you that you are categorically *wrong*, if you think Apple would release Lion, and then give "Right-click >> View package contents" blah blah, as a method for installing on one's OTHER Macs.

Do you seriously think that is an elegant or acceptable solution for non-techy customers? (most of them). Believe me, Apple have thought about this MUCH, MUCH longer & harder than you or I have.

🙄
 
glossywhite said:
How could you, or I or anyone possibly know? It hasn't been released yet!

My thread pertains to the technical nature of how Lion installs itself and uses partitions, NOT to what installer UI options will be present. I _have_ to tell you that you are categorically *wrong*, if you think Apple would release Lion, and then give "Right-click >> View package contents" blah blah, as a method for installing on one's OTHER Macs.

Do you seriously think that is an elegant or acceptable solution for non-techy customers? (most of them). Believe me, Apple have thought about this MUCH, MUCH longer & harder than you or I have.

🙄
Click to expand...
Seeing as DP4 is likely the last DP before GM candidates it would've been a good idea to have all the installer stuff in place.

I'm betting that Apple's solution includes using the Mac App Store on each computer to process the upgrade. Hopefully with just copying the Lion install package from one system to the other. I'd hate to see peoples reaction if the official solution is to download Lion each time you want to install it for home users.
 
glossywhite said:
How could you, or I or anyone possibly know? It hasn't been released yet!

My thread pertains to the technical nature of how Lion installs itself and uses partitions, NOT to what installer UI options will be present. I _have_ to tell you that you are categorically *wrong*, if you think Apple would release Lion, and then give "Right-click >> View package contents" blah blah, as a method for installing on one's OTHER Macs.

Do you seriously think that is an elegant or acceptable solution for non-techy customers? (most of them). Believe me, Apple have thought about this MUCH, MUCH longer & harder than you or I have.

🙄
Click to expand...

I agree, and no, view package contents is not elegant and official. However, what if Apple thinks that everyone should just upgrade? Maybe they don't expect anyone to do a fresh install (as it makes little sense), and they expect everyone to have Snow Leopard already. Apple likes to ignore certain people, and since it's so late in the development cycle, I would think that not much new is going to get added before release.

So what if your HDD crashes? Take it to Apple. You use Time Machine anyway so you lost no data.
What if you want a new HDD? Take it to Apple. The HDDs on iMacs aren't user replaceable anyway, for example.
What if you have no internet? Apple doesn't really care: today, if you have a computer as expensive as a Mac, you probably have a decent connection.
What if you want a fresh install? Apple says you have no reason for that, or if you do, you should take it to Apple to fix it.

This is how I fear Apple thinks, which would explain why they removed the "Archive and Install" option in Snow Leopard, and now they're making it even harder (not really, but it's less user-friendly).

I personally don't mind at all. I can always install Lion first, and then clean install it as many times as I want from the recovery partition. My connection is fast enough so I can live with re-downloading it, and I have no data caps (this is also the cheapest internet package I could get). I don't want to clean install, but I feel good knowing that I could if I had to.
 
Meriana said:
It's just a guess on my side, but if you do a clean install and then use a (TM)-backup to copy back user accounts and programms you achieve absolut nothing in comparisson to an upgrade. Why? The installer probably overwrites all system files and folders on your current installation anyway and resets all config files to default. (files and folders by third party programms in the library folders excluded). Any software that requires to be integrated into the system files /foldeers should be reinstalled with a Lion compatible version anyway - so no loss there.

There might be a few old config files in the library folder on Macintosh HD you would get rid of, but those files only should take up a few MB and they don't do any harm if they are sitting unused on the harddisk. And of course, you'd loose any files related to programms you still use stored there. You'd have to reinstall/ reconfigure your applications. The average user doesn't need to do a clean install, there's just no benefit to it.

And if you insist on doing a clean install, upgrade your current installation to Lion, then boot into the recovery partition and use the disk utily there to format your harddriv and then reinstall Lion from there. No media required. You can redownload the Lion installer from the recovery partition. Media options is only for those without a internet connection capable of redownloading Lion in the rare case that you need to do a clean install.
Click to expand...

clean install and only migrate your personal files from Time Machine. Id rather do a clean installation because I actually do want to get rid of files I have no use for in Lion.
 
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