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MacRumors
Jun 23, 2011, 06:29 AM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/23/evidence-in-ios-5-that-apple-is-building-its-own-mapping-solution/)


http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/legal2.jpg

(http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/legal2.jpg)
Despite statements by Google's former CEO (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/31/apple-just-renewed-maps-and-search-partnership-with-google/) that Apple had "just" renewed their Map partnership with Google, there appears to be evidence that Apple has been working on its own mapping solution in iOS 5.

It's certainly no secret that Apple is actively working on some sort of mapping solution. In the past few years, Apple has acquired two mapping companies Placebase (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/30/apple-acquired-mapping-company-placebase-in-july/) and Poly9 (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/14/apple-acquires-web-mapping-firm-poly9/). The company has also been actively recruiting (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/12/17/apples-ios-engineering-jobs-emphasize-navigation-software-experience/) for job applicants with navigation software experience and has even revealed work (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/27/apple-hints-at-future-turn-by-turn-gps-directions-with-traffic-for-iphone/) on a future crowds-sourced traffic database.

Now, a look at the legal disclaimers found in iOS 5 reveal a new section called "Map Data". This section lists licenses from an extensive number of third party companies that provide mapping data and related services.

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/inf.png

(http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/inf.png)
This entire section is new in iOS 5's legal section and does not appear to be related to Google's own mapping data licenses. Google's own legal terms (http://www.google.com/intl/en_us/help/legalnotices_maps.html) for their map data is distinct, and many of the companies do not overlap. In fact, one of the listed traffic-data companies is a competitor (http://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8569) to Google's Maps.

The companies listed in iOS 5's legal notices include the following diverse companies under the "Map Data" section:

- CoreLogic (http://www.corelogic.com/Products/ParcelPoint-Technology.aspx) offers Parcel data which marks boundaries for of properties to provide positional accuracy in location-based solutions.
- Getchee (http://www.getchee.com/) provides location and market data on China, India and Southeast Asia.
- Increment P Corp (http://www.incrementp.co.jp/gc01info/e/legal01.html) provides location and traffic data for Japan.
- Localeze (http://localeze.com/) provides local business listings.
- MapData Sciences Pty Ltd. Inc (http://www.mapds.com.au/) provides mapping data for Australia and New Zealand.
- DMTI (http://www.dmtispatial.com/) provides postal code data for Canada.
- TomTom (http://licensing.tomtom.com/WhyTeleAtlas/index.htm) offers global TeleAtlas mapping data which is also licensed by Google for their map solution.
- Urban Mapping (http://www.urbanmapping.com/) provides in-depth neighborhood data such as crime, demographics, school performance, economic indicators and more.
- Waze (http://www.waze.com/) offers real-time maps and traffic information based on crowd sourced data.

The last two companies are perhaps the most interesting. Urban Mapping (http://www.urbanmapping.com/) offers extensive additional data (http://developer.mapfluence.com/mapfluence/data-catalog/) over traditional mapping products. The company was even a partner of Placebase's (http://urbanmapping.com/blog/index.php/2007/11/19/urban-mapping-placebase-very-good-things/) back in 2007 before Apple's acquisition. Meanwhile, Waze (http://www.waze.com/) seems to be exactly what Apple was talking about when they hinted at crowd-sourced traffic data. Waze offers mobile apps that can be used to send data back to a central database to show realtime traffic data.

Given the news of Apple's recent agreement with Google, it may be that Apple's own solution wasn't ready for iOS 5, so we may have to wait a while before we see what Apple's been working on.

Thanks @_Craigy (http://twitter.com/#!/@_Craigy)

Article Link: Evidence in iOS 5 that Apple is Building Its Own Mapping Solution (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/23/evidence-in-ios-5-that-apple-is-building-its-own-mapping-solution/)



arn
Jun 23, 2011, 06:31 AM
full text of map data legal notices

Map Data:

Map data © AND.

Property parcel data for USA. © CoreLogic Inc., 2011.

Map data © Getchee, 2011.

© INCREMENT P CORP., 2011, http://www.incrementp.co.jp/gc01info/e/legal01.html.

Business Listing data © Localeze, 2011.

Mapping data for Australia and New Zealand. © MapData Sciences Pty Ltd.Inc., 2011, PSMA www.nowwhere.com.au/lic/NowWhereLic.htm

Postal data © DMTI, 2011. This software contains Postal Code OM Data copied by Apple under a sub-license from DMTI Spatial Inc., a party directly licensed by Canada Post Corporation. The Canada Post Corporation file from which this data was copied is dated [insert date].

© TomTom. All rights reserved. This material is proprietary and the subject of copyright protection, database right protection and other intellectual property rights owned by TomTom or its suppliers. The use of this material is subject to the terms of a license agreement. Any unauthorized copying or disclosure of this material will lead to criminal and civil liabilities. // MultiNet® North America, © 2006 – 2011 TomTom. All rights reserved. This material is proprietary and the subject of copyright protection and other intellectual property rights owned or licensed to TomTom. TomTom is an authorized user of selected Statistics Canada computer files and distributor of derived information products under Agreement number 6776. The product is sourced in part from Statistics Canada computer files, including 2009 Road Network File (RNF), 92-500-XWE/XWF and 2006 Census Population and Dwelling Count Highlight Tables, 97-550-XWE2006002. The product includes information copied with permission from Canadian authorities, including © Canada Post Corporation, GeoBase®, and Department of Natural Resources Canada, All rights reserved. The use of this material is subject to the terms of a License Agreement. You will be held liable for any unauthorized copying or disclosure of this material. // MultiNet® South East Asia, Base data © Bakosurtanal. // MultiNet® Europe, Data Source © 2011 TomTom based on: MultiNet® data of Austria © BEV, GZ 1368/2003; MultiNet® data of Denmark © DAV, violation of these copyrights shall cause legal proceedings; MultiNet® data of Northern Ireland Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland; MultiNet® data of Norway © Norwegian Mapping Authority, Public Roads Administration / © Mapsolutions; MultiNet® data of Russia © Roskartographia; MultiNet® data of Switzerland © Swisstopo; MultiNet® data of The Netherlands Topografische onderground Copyright © dienst voor het kadaster en de openbare registers, Apeldoorn 2006; MultiNet® data of France © IGN France.

Neighborhood data © Urban Mapping, 2011.

Map data © 2011 Waze.

wordoflife
Jun 23, 2011, 06:33 AM
Well that's neat. Maps could use a bit of an update. If they do GPS, I hope they have an option to keep the maps installed on your phone. I say option because if you don't use the maps that much or have unlimited data ... then you don't really need it. Or if you are stuck on a capped plan but need GPS, you probably don't want to have to download the maps.

iStudentUK
Jun 23, 2011, 06:34 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

ChazUK
Jun 23, 2011, 06:36 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Google Nexus S Build/MIUI) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

The end of the standalone GPS unit is nigh.

iBug2
Jun 23, 2011, 06:37 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

Who knows? It'd cost less this way maybe?

513
Jun 23, 2011, 06:38 AM
Maybe it's just because Google Maps also use third party companies providing mapping data where Google Cars didn't go. And Apple had to mention them ?

gullySn0wCat
Jun 23, 2011, 06:41 AM
Apple... stick with Google... you don't want to make the next Bing maps:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 06:42 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

To become more self-sufficient.

arn
Jun 23, 2011, 06:42 AM
Maybe it's just because Google Maps also use third party companies providing mapping data where Google Cars didn't go. And Apple had to mention them ?

If you read the article, it says that Google uses different sources for some of the same data. Also, one of the companies listed is a competitor to Google Maps local traffic feature.

arn

The Phazer
Jun 23, 2011, 06:43 AM
To become more self-sufficient.

With the remaining problem that you cannot (literally cannot - it is impossible) create as comprehensive a business location database as Google maps has unless you own the world's most important search engine as well to encourage busineses to submit up to date listings.

So once again Apple's ideology would lead to a worse customer experience, if true.

Phazer

BornAgainMac
Jun 23, 2011, 06:45 AM
So far the mapping feature on the iPhone has been really useful. After using it for a few years, I almost take it for granted now.

Biolizard
Jun 23, 2011, 06:46 AM
We've seen this before. Internet Explorer for Mac led to Safari.

iphonepiephone
Jun 23, 2011, 06:46 AM
Good for them, I say. They take something and make it better, usually. Why not! :D

arn
Jun 23, 2011, 06:47 AM
With the remaining problem that you cannot (literally cannot - it is impossible) create as comprehensive a business location database as Google maps has unless you own the world's most important search engine as well to encourage busineses to submit up to date listings.

I don't believe that. You're suggesting that Google Maps gets all its data from user submissions? Link?

According to Google (http://www.google.com/intl/en_us/help/legalnotices_maps.html) they get at least some of their business listings from Acxiom Corporation and/or infoUSA Inc.

arn

gullySn0wCat
Jun 23, 2011, 06:49 AM
Is that true? I don't believe it. You're suggesting that Google Maps gets all its data from user submissions? Link?

According to Google they get some of their business listings from Acxiom Corporation and/or infoUSA Inc.

arn

If you go to Google maps, you can register you business location etc. I think that's what he meant.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 06:50 AM
So does this have anything to do with Apple's Placebase acquisition?

slifty
Jun 23, 2011, 06:50 AM
"Despite statements by Google's former CEO that Apple had "just" renewed their Map partnership with Apple"

I think you want that second apple to be Google; although maybe you mean Apple renewed Googles partnership with Apple? In any case, the sentence is very confusing and the meaning of "their" is gramatically unclear...

Just a note in case you have a chance to fix it ;) idk what your copy edit policies are!

smoge
Jun 23, 2011, 06:52 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

Lazy! if every one said that then we would have never of invented the iphone. O nokia have a phone why do we need to make 1?

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 06:54 AM
With the remaining problem that you cannot (literally cannot - it is impossible) create as comprehensive a business location database as Google maps has unless you own the world's most important search engine as well to encourage busineses to submit up to date listings.

So once again Apple's ideology would lead to a worse customer experience, if true.

Phazer

You make it sound as though Google is abusing its near-monopoly in Search in order to create a monopoly in Maps?

Jerome Morrow
Jun 23, 2011, 06:59 AM
You make it sound as though Google is abusing its near-monopoly in Search in order to create a monopoly in Maps?

Isn't it?

Dr McKay
Jun 23, 2011, 07:00 AM
To become more self-sufficient.

Thats the first thing you've ever said that I've agreed with.

World Citizen
Jun 23, 2011, 07:02 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Google Nexus S Build/MIUI) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

The end of the standalone GPS unit is nigh.

Not even a bit...
If I am 5 days in the mountains... I need to change some batteries... I cant do that on the iPhone. And I am not going to take 5 3th party batteries with me. I need the space for food and drinks and maybe even a bit of soap.

These things are fun ... but when you use GPS like we do.. its a no-go.

iStudentUK
Jun 23, 2011, 07:02 AM
Lazy! if every one said that then we would have never of invented the iphone. O nokia have a phone why do we need to make 1?

Invention for the sake of invention is pointless, at least commercially. Google have an excellent database, there is so much data at their hands. Improve on the app itself, adjust the UI, improve GPS features, integrate it better with the rest of iOS etc. That way we get the best of both worlds- a comprehensive map that is very easy to use and packed with features.

Jerome Morrow
Jun 23, 2011, 07:06 AM
Not even a bit...
If I am 5 days in the mountains... I need to change some batteries... I cant do that on the iPhone. And I am not going to take 5 3th party batteries with me. I need the space for food and drinks and maybe even a bit of soap.

These things are fun ... but when you use GPS like we do.. its a no-go.

Some battety packs for charging iOS devices are no bigger than a piece of soap, so i think if you really needed you'd survive adding an extra 'soap' to your backpack.

steadysignal
Jun 23, 2011, 07:08 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

I agree - i find it hard to lose the tether to google for the same reason.

Biolizard
Jun 23, 2011, 07:10 AM
Invention for the sake of invention is pointless, at least commercially. Google have an excellent database, there is so much data at their hands.

Call me Mr Paranoid, but I don't trust Google, with their vested interests across a range of industries now, with the only copy of such a database. It's too easy for them to decide to manipulate its data for their own ends if it were to suit them in the future.

It's good that competitors like Apple and Microsoft should come up with their own such systems to ensure no one dominates and that what constitutes the 'truth' is not the domain of one organisation.

SiPat
Jun 23, 2011, 07:16 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

iToys, iStudent? iToys for kids and Android for adults? Still in nursery or infants school?

Apple needs to unshackle from Google, so that in time, it is independent and Google can't squeeze Apple's balls the way Microsoft did years ago (MS threatened to stop developing Office for Mac if Apple didn't agree to MS using Apple's UI -- look and feel).

Becordial
Jun 23, 2011, 07:18 AM
If you go to Google maps, you can register you business location etc. I think that's what he meant.

Google leave it to them but so few businesses bother.

Reason077
Jun 23, 2011, 07:26 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

Apple probably feels that it's not a good idea to depend so deeply on a direct competitor for such an important data source. Although I don't think Google would actually do anything malicious to sabotage Apple's maps, it seems like they have been holding back some of the goodies for themselves - the 3D maps in Android, for example.

Thex1138
Jun 23, 2011, 07:27 AM
Apple see great untapped wealth in geolocated data and where to find stuff and how to get there!

Dagless
Jun 23, 2011, 07:28 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Google Nexus S Build/MIUI) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

The end of the standalone GPS unit is nigh.

I wouldn't say so.
My father has an iPhone 4 but recently bought himself the latest Tom Tom. £150 for a device that he'll be taking all over Europe, whereas if he was to do this with his iPhone the data cost would be massive. Beyond the initial cost there's nothing else to fork out for. And it also has free over-the-air traffic updates too and can be updated through customers making new points of reference, etc.

For most people the iPhone GPS is enough, but it's not the best at all.

FriarNurgle
Jun 23, 2011, 07:33 AM
I'm very happy with Navigon, but would welcome a native full featured navigation app from Apple.

Themaeds
Jun 23, 2011, 07:34 AM
Call me Mr Paranoid, but I don't trust Google, with their vested interests across a range of industries now, with the only copy of such a database. It's too easy for them to decide to manipulate its data for their own ends if it were to suit them in the future.

It's good that competitors like Apple and Microsoft should come up with their own such systems to ensure no one dominates and that what constitutes the 'truth' is not the domain of one organisation.

Well Mr. Paranoid I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Google is doing some pretty good things. They are making strong infrastructure investments (Wind Farms, Other alternative energies) that will stabilize America but also yield a profit. They aren't as evil as you think

captain kaos
Jun 23, 2011, 07:36 AM
Now you'll be able to know when you walk into a dodgy area with your nice mobile phone :D

WvB22
Jun 23, 2011, 07:37 AM
Maybe this doesn't mean anything. In 2008 TomTom bought Tele Atlas and Tele Atlas was the main map provider for Google Maps. As Tele Atlas is now TomTom maybe this change just reflects the changed names. It doesn't explain the other companies though.

Themaeds
Jun 23, 2011, 07:37 AM
I'm very happy with Navigon, but would welcome a native full featured navigation app from Apple.

From a level headed standpoint I think it makes sense for Apple to design something like this. I use it on my Droid and it has rendered my Garmin useless. Motorola offers a GPS like window attachment, which im sure that will be available from Apple that is very handy. It's a smart move and a great tool if done right

World Citizen
Jun 23, 2011, 07:41 AM
Some battety packs for charging iOS devices are no bigger than a piece of soap, so i think if you really needed you'd survive adding an extra 'soap' to your backpack.

Lol, I don't think so... I really have to think about almost every CM...
It's hard to choose between a couple of First aid items or some extra PowerBars for food... let alone a batterie or 4.

Biolizard
Jun 23, 2011, 07:41 AM
Well Mr. Paranoid I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Google is doing some pretty good things. They are making strong infrastructure investments (Wind Farms, Other alternative energies) that will stabilize America but also yield a profit. They aren't as evil as you think

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I'm not saying Google don't do good. They do, lots more than many people. But don't give them a free ride, because that can all change. Google is a company, and companies have shareholders who demand profit. If profits were to be in direct contention with doing good, the former would come first.

bozzykid
Jun 23, 2011, 07:50 AM
We've seen this before. Internet Explorer for Mac led to Safari.

That really is not a good comparison. You don't just build out a Maps/Places database like you write software. Google has lot's of sources for it's data (and continuously collects it from Android users) to provide the most accurate maps/places database in use right now. Apple has tried to buy a few companies to help with this. I think the reason we still haven't seen their own solution is they are realizing how hard of a task this is. If they released it without it being on par to the current iPhone Maps app, then it would really hurt their image. And given Google's head start in this area, it is going to be difficult.

My guess is they aren't developing the current Maps app anymore (which they actually do, not Google) so they add some features with their own solution and then say how great it is. Even though it will be hard to match the features of Android's version.

KnightWRX
Jun 23, 2011, 07:51 AM
From a level headed standpoint I think it makes sense for Apple to design something like this. I use it on my Droid and it has rendered my Garmin useless. Motorola offers a GPS like window attachment, which im sure that will be available from Apple that is very handy. It's a smart move and a great tool if done right

This story has nothing to do with what you mention. Apple can already build what you mention using Google's map data.

This is simply about replacing the provider of maps and the locations databases behind it. This has nothing to do with Maps.app, which is a barely functionning mess of basic functionality on iOS compared to what the competition has to offer.

The efforts Apple is putting towards this back-end infrastructure would be best spent on making the front-end application better. If only Apple didn't operate in a "small business" mode where they have small teams that do many different projects depending on priorities rather than more teams working on more stuff at the same time.

That really is not a good comparison. You don't just build out a Maps/Places database like you write software.

It's also not a very good comparison in the fact that Safari wasn't built from the ground-up by Apple. They basically took years of work done by the KDE Community, forked it, promised to give it back (according to the terms of the GPL), went underground, showed back up a few months later with an uintegratable mess, basically screwing the original developers out of the improvements they made.

Themaeds
Jun 23, 2011, 07:52 AM
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I'm not saying Google don't do good. They do, lots more than many people. But don't give them a free ride, because that can all change. Google is a company, and companies have shareholders who demand profit. If profits were to be in direct contention with doing good, the former would come first.

haha I am not naive either. I don’t 100% trust ANY company...but the notion that Google HQ is like the control room of the death star is crazy. Your argument above applies to every company including Apple.

gertruded
Jun 23, 2011, 07:52 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Google Nexus S Build/MIUI) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

The end of the standalone GPS unit is nigh.

Just wait until that speeding ticket arrives in the mail based on timed location data from your iPhone.

logandzwon
Jun 23, 2011, 07:54 AM
Great! Can't wait. Google API was awesome 4 years ago, but hasn't really been updated since. As I understand it, the Google mapping client on Android blows away what Google's API always 3rd parties like Apple to do.

nefan65
Jun 23, 2011, 07:55 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

Well, partly because of Android. You do realize that Google is involved with that, right? lol...

I also think it's a matter of having more control.

Jerome Morrow
Jun 23, 2011, 07:59 AM
Lol, I don't think so... I really have to think about almost every CM...
It's hard to choose between a couple of First aid items or some extra PowerBars for food... let alone a batterie or 4.

I can't agree on that, because it's based on my personal experience. I often go to the woods for weeks. I have standard military backpack. If you can't squeeze extra soap i don't know what to say. Maybe you need to improve your "put some extra soap into a backpack" skill?

chameleon81
Jun 23, 2011, 08:00 AM
Call me Mr Paranoid, but I don't trust Google, with their vested interests across a range of industries now, with the only copy of such a database. It's too easy for them to decide to manipulate its data for their own ends if it were to suit them in the future.

It's good that competitors like Apple and Microsoft should come up with their own such systems to ensure no one dominates and that what constitutes the 'truth' is not the domain of one organisation.
Mr Paranoid

FriarNurgle
Jun 23, 2011, 08:04 AM
Just wait until that speeding ticket arrives in the mail based on timed location data from your iPhone.

I would welcome that ticket if the GPS accuracy was increased on the iPhone.

The Phazer
Jun 23, 2011, 08:09 AM
I don't believe that. You're suggesting that Google Maps gets all its data from user submissions? Link?

According to Google (http://www.google.com/intl/en_us/help/legalnotices_maps.html) they get at least some of their business listings from Acxiom Corporation and/or infoUSA Inc.

arn

I never said that at all. Google buys some listings in, and has others submitted. I would imagine the split isn't far off 50/50.

But if Apple can only buy 50% in, and maybe with the best will in the world get 20% submitted (iOS is a fairly big platform for businesses), then my iOS map app still gets 30% ******* data coming into it. That's not good news. And I don't see that there's anyway around it.

You make it sound as though Google is abusing its near-monopoly in Search in order to create a monopoly in Maps?

I think there's a very good arguement they are.

Phazer

FriarNurgle
Jun 23, 2011, 08:19 AM
I think there's a very good arguement they are.

Phazer

The Google POI Search feature on the iOS Navigon App is really really good.

Lone Deranger
Jun 23, 2011, 08:25 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

Because there is always room for improvement. Because competition is good. Because it'd be nice to flip the tables on Google and give them some of their own medicine.

pmz
Jun 23, 2011, 08:26 AM
All I care about is getting from point A to point B. Google maps does that for me just fine, and the Maps app, while it could use some performance enhancements, works just fine.

All Apple could possibly do from here (actually from iOS 2.0 on) is screw it up by offering way more info than I want/need.

dethmaShine
Jun 23, 2011, 08:35 AM
All I care about is getting from point A to point B. Google maps does that for me just fine, and the Maps app, while it could use some performance enhancements, works just fine.

All Apple could possibly do from here (actually from iOS 2.0 on) is screw it up by offering way more info than I want/need.

All I need is to make a phone call... Puff!!! the iPhone.

iBug2
Jun 23, 2011, 08:38 AM
TThis has nothing to do with Maps.app, which is a barely functionning mess of basic functionality on iOS compared to what the competition has to offer.




Can you elaborate on that? I don't know what the competition offers and it might as well be better but my maps app always functions on my 1st gen iPhone using iOS 3. So I don't know what 'barely functioning mess' is supposed to mean.

budafied
Jun 23, 2011, 08:50 AM
If they will soon have built-in navigation, then this is great news!

There are really only 3 things I want that the iPhone is missing right now that Android has, and this solves one:

1) Built-in turn-by-turn navigation
2) Complete voice integration
3) LTE 4G

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 08:59 AM
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

Because the ideal is to make the whole widget yourself if at all possible. Your product. You're in control Self-sufiiciency. No compromises to your vision of what it should be. The goal is not necessarily to work with others (most often it's a necessity rather than voluntary), but to do a better job yourself and be less beholden to others when deciding the direction in which you want to go as a business.

The goal is to make the Apple ecosystem self-sustaining - a one-stop place for everything - all integrated, all from Apple - not necessarily locking others out entirely, but offering a homegrown solution for everything. THAT is a cohesive ecosystem designed without the compromises that come from having to partner with others because you're unable to supply, create, or distribute a certain feature or part of your ecosystem on your own.

And don't think that stifles competition or limits choice. You'll have other platforms and ecosystems to choose from. But keep in mind that some of them will be more sharply differentiated from others, for obvious reasons.

All I care about is getting from point A to point B. Google maps does that for me just fine, and the Maps app, while it could use some performance enhancements, works just fine.

All Apple could possibly do from here (actually from iOS 2.0 on) is screw it up by offering way more info than I want/need.

Why assume the worst?

We all thought Nokia was the hottest thing until June 2007 rolled around. Look what happened.

Apple could very well do a better job. It seems they're working with TomTom, which if true, can't be a bad thing.

TurnerMan
Jun 23, 2011, 09:04 AM
If only I could HEAR the directions from the iPhone it would be awesome... It's sad when accessories are designed with a speaker so you can hear the navigation voice.

Ryanalogy
Jun 23, 2011, 09:08 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Many people in here are forgetting that Google and Apple are direct mobile competitors now. Meaning, Google is playing nice and being smart by even offering a mapping option for the iPhone, but the one they put in their own phones is leagues better. Plus, my experience with maps has been far from positive. It sometimes just stalls in the middle of typing and very frequently it pulls up nothing when I do an address search. All this while supposedly having full bars of service.

I say go for it Apple. With the huge integration of iOS in the entire world, creating an optimized mapping solution would only encourage businesses to quickly put in their info. iOS is the first operating system businesses create apps for anyhow because of it's popularity. I think it is funny that people think businesses that want business would be too lazy or too prideful to put in their own info when they have already done it on google.

toddybody
Jun 23, 2011, 09:10 AM
I really hope Apple succeeds in their own map/gps application efforts...I just cant see it rivaling Google's. I fear their efforts will just be catching up to Google's, release upon release.

scott craft
Jun 23, 2011, 09:12 AM
Can you elaborate on that? I don't know what the competition offers and it might as well be better but my maps app always functions on my 1st gen iPhone using iOS 3. So I don't know what 'barely functioning mess' is supposed to mean.

Maps on my droid offers 3d views that are very nice and google has turn by turn navigation on android phones. My wife's iphone is nicer overall, but when it comes to maps and navigation the droid is better.

bozzykid
Jun 23, 2011, 09:13 AM
Many people in here are forgetting that Google and Apple are direct mobile competitors now. Meaning, Google is playing nice and being smart by even offering a mapping option for the iPhone, but the one they put in their own phones is leagues better. Plus, my experience with maps has been far from positive. It sometimes just stalls in the middle of typing and very frequently it pulls up nothing when I do an address search. All this while supposedly having full bars of service.

To be clear, Apple developed the Maps app on iOS using Google's API. Google just licenses the data to Apple.

yg17
Jun 23, 2011, 09:13 AM
I really hope Apple succeeds in their own map/gps application efforts...I just cant see it rivaling Google's. I fear their efforts will just be catching up to Google's, release upon release.

Well, that's how iOS is, so I would expect the same from their mapping service :p

Ugg
Jun 23, 2011, 09:16 AM
Call me Mr Paranoid, but I don't trust Google, with their vested interests across a range of industries now, with the only copy of such a database. It's too easy for them to decide to manipulate its data for their own ends if it were to suit them in the future.

It's good that competitors like Apple and Microsoft should come up with their own such systems to ensure no one dominates and that what constitutes the 'truth' is not the domain of one organisation.

I agree 100%. Google is too big and too scary. Competition is not only good, but necessary here. Google Maps is always trying to tell me what they think I want to know. I'd like a less pushy mapping option and one that allows me more control. I'll bet you anything Apple will come up with what I really want and need.

KnightWRX
Jun 23, 2011, 09:18 AM
Can you elaborate on that? I don't know what the competition offers and it might as well be better but my maps app always functions on my 1st gen iPhone using iOS 3. So I don't know what 'barely functioning mess' is supposed to mean.

If you've ever used it while driving, you'd know why it's a barely functionning mess. The competition's offering is much better just by virtue of turn-by-turn navigation being implemented right there, something Apple can do right now with Google's map data if they so wish.

Dranix
Jun 23, 2011, 10:06 AM
We all thought Nokia was the hottest thing until June 2007 rolled around. Look what happened.


I have to disagree. Nokia never build a good mobile. Never understood why so many liked that crap.

iBug2
Jun 23, 2011, 10:58 AM
If you've ever used it while driving, you'd know why it's a barely functionning mess. The competition's offering is much better just by virtue of turn-by-turn navigation being implemented right there, something Apple can do right now with Google's map data if they so wish.

I can't use it for driving because my iPhone doesn't have a GPS to begin with.

That also doesn't mean it's a barely functioning mess. That means it's missing a lot of features.

iBug2
Jun 23, 2011, 11:00 AM
Maps on my droid offers 3d views that are very nice and google has turn by turn navigation on android phones. My wife's iphone is nicer overall, but when it comes to maps and navigation the droid is better.

Again the competition being better doesn't make the iPhone maps app a "barely functioning mess". They are mutually exclusive things. What I understand from an app which is "barely functioning mess" is that it crashes frequently, doesn't work correctly etc, you get the gist.

Sined
Jun 23, 2011, 11:01 AM
Michael: Hasn't everything already sorta been discovered, by like, Magellen and Cortez?
Buster: Oh yeah, yeah....
Michael: All those folks.
Buster: Those guys did a pretty good job. But there's still ... you know ...

bit density
Jun 23, 2011, 11:12 AM
No Maps.

But it seriously sucks much of the time. I have been constantly put in the wrong places. GPS lag has meant I have missed turns. I want directionality with out the map spinning in circles or making infinity marks on the screen. I want to be able to read street names in a font big enough to read. I want to see streets and intersection names without traffic indicators getting in the way. I want to turn on and off items without going to another screen going back and having to reorientate all the time.

In other words, I want the application, in total to be reinvented by somebody that would actually using it at a speed faster than sitting down. That can get to information on the map not obscured by pin labels. I want to be able to zoom and see the entire route and see the details without the freaking pinch maneuver which never zooms in and out as much as I want. Nor as fast as I want. Can't we freaking cache SOME of the maps. Like all the ones on route?

The map application sucks, it sucks on many many levels. And I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars to discover whether or not other mapping solutions suck, and not be able to get my money back (The problem with the app store when the app costs more than .99).

It is better than no maps at all. But it is very frustrating to use as it is.

You know, because everyone in LA has an Iphone, that the directions given all use the same roads, and are all overly congested? That there isn't alternate routes given based on congestion and time to travel?

alent1234
Jun 23, 2011, 11:23 AM
i'll stick with google maps on my $20 Inspire, thanks

crowd sourced traffic? is apple really that cheap they can't buy real time traffic data? like i'm going to be constantly playing with my phone to report traffic data with my kids in the car

kingtj
Jun 23, 2011, 11:35 AM
One thing I haven't really seen anyone do, but would be GREAT if Apple could pull it off, is to do map lookups from MULTIPLE competing services and find the most likely correct answer to display.

When I was doing work as a courier, and occasionally when doing on-site computer service work, I'd key in a street address and not have any luck finding a match. Often, it'd be as simple a problem as the map database not listing the street the exact same way I was trying to enter it. (EG. You're trying to find an address on "Research Park Triangle", but someone's database has it keyed in as "Research Pk. Trngl. Dr.", or you want something on "First Missouri Center" but one listing has it as "1ST MO CENTER" and another has it as "FIRST MO CNTR".) Last time I tried to use a TomTom stand-alone GPS unit, I discovered it was missing ALL of the zip codes in the St. Louis, Missouri area, in fact! Searches starting with a zip instead of keying in a city or municipality were worthless!

And forget those lookups by POI! Those got me all screwed up MANY times. Once, for example, I keyed in the name of a bar and grill where I was trying to meet a friend of mine, and it took me right to the front door of the bar owner's HOUSE. The map people apparently mixed up his home and his business listing!

There would be a lot of value in a lookup hitting 4 or 5 services at once and giving you the result that matched, say, 3 out of 5 of the results that came back .... or kept trying when the first one failed to return anything, until one of the services got a "hit" on it.


Maybe it's just because Google Maps also use third party companies providing mapping data where Google Cars didn't go. And Apple had to mention them ?

KingCrimson
Jun 23, 2011, 11:40 AM
The way things are going Apple will be running their own CPU-fabs in 5 years...

KnightWRX
Jun 23, 2011, 11:43 AM
I can't use it for driving because my iPhone doesn't have a GPS to begin with.

That also doesn't mean it's a barely functioning mess. That means it's missing a lot of features.

When the only function I need is driving directions and all it has is a line drawn I need to constantly stare at while driving, yes it is a barely functioning mess. It's barely providing the function I need out of it. That makes a whole lot of mess of my driving experience.

Good thing I'm good with directions and can usually memorize them with a quick glance on a map before leaving. Having to constantly refer back to the iPhone while driving is a pain each time I've tried it, I don't bother anymore if I don't have a co-pilot.

The way things are going Apple will be running their own CPU-fabs in 5 years...

NIH syndrome often leads to product delays, products that ship without much needed functionality or delays in updates that can give way to the competition.

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 11:48 AM
No Maps.

But it seriously sucks much of the time. I have been constantly put in the wrong places. GPS lag has meant I have missed turns. I want directionality with out the map spinning in circles or making infinity marks on the screen. I want to be able to read street names in a font big enough to read. I want to see streets and intersection names without traffic indicators getting in the way. I want to turn on and off items without going to another screen going back and having to reorientate all the time.

In other words, I want the application, in total to be reinvented by somebody that would actually using it at a speed faster than sitting down. That can get to information on the map not obscured by pin labels. I want to be able to zoom and see the entire route and see the details without the freaking pinch maneuver which never zooms in and out as much as I want. Nor as fast as I want. Can't we freaking cache SOME of the maps. Like all the ones on route?

The map application sucks, it sucks on many many levels. And I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars to discover whether or not other mapping solutions suck, and not be able to get my money back (The problem with the app store when the app costs more than .99).

It is better than no maps at all. But it is very frustrating to use as it is.

You know, because everyone in LA has an Iphone, that the directions given all use the same roads, and are all overly congested? That there isn't alternate routes given based on congestion and time to travel?

For me it works quite fine, but every once in a while the GPS is one block off, and/or the compass is 20 degrees off. Kind of frustrating in a city where most streets are not at right angles.

And then there's the eventual "the GPS was distracted staring at something, then suddenly realizes you moved 200 meters and quickly adjusts itself"-glitch, like you caught it with its pants off or something. Is this all Apple's fault, or is there some inherent limitations on Google's side?

It could definitely be better, but it's still ages ahead of what we had (say) four years ago... here in Japan.

Macsterguy
Jun 23, 2011, 11:54 AM
Apple need's to do their own map / gps thing... Keep it all in the family so to speak.

radiogoober
Jun 23, 2011, 11:58 AM
Prediction: This thread gets incredibly out of hand, with people imagining that this new Maps app will do all sorts of impossibly amazing things, and then when it comes out they all say how much Apple sucks because they didn't include whatever stupid, obscure feature they imagined!

vvswarup
Jun 23, 2011, 12:26 PM
This story has nothing to do with what you mention. Apple can already build what you mention using Google's map data.

This is simply about replacing the provider of maps and the locations databases behind it. This has nothing to do with Maps.app, which is a barely functionning mess of basic functionality on iOS compared to what the competition has to offer.

[QUOTE]The efforts Apple is putting towards this back-end infrastructure would be best spent on making the front-end application better. If only Apple didn't operate in a "small business" mode where they have small teams that do many different projects depending on priorities rather than more teams working on more stuff at the same time.

There is greater cohesiveness in small organizations. By having so few employees, Apple is able to maintain the "start-up" culture. Contrast this with Microsoft which employs almost twice as many people as Apple, and Microsoft doesn't have a retail division like Apple (I'm betting the bulk of Apple's employees are Retail). There have been reports that Microsoft suffers from political infighting which have played a role in delaying Microsoft's entry to new markets.



It's also not a very good comparison in the fact that Safari wasn't built from the ground-up by Apple. They basically took years of work done by the KDE Community, forked it, promised to give it back (according to the terms of the GPL), went underground, showed back up a few months later with an uintegratable mess, basically screwing the original developers out of the improvements they made.

Go back to your first paragraph. The Maps.app is a NATIVE maps application, which admittedly doesn't offer the same functionality that competitors' native maps applications do offer (e.g. Android). But there are plenty of apps that can fill the gap. With Safari, you're saying that Apple screwed the original developers over. If Apple implemented features like turn-by-turn in the Maps.app, that would supplant developers who have those kinds of apps in the App Store and put them out of business.

John Frum
Jun 23, 2011, 12:46 PM
If I'd been betrayed as badly as Apple was by Google, I'd screw them as deeply as I could.

KnightWRX
Jun 23, 2011, 12:46 PM
There is greater cohesiveness in small organizations. By having so few employees, Apple is able to maintain the "start-up" culture.

The problem is that they often release half-baked stuff only to never update it again, or before a long time has elapsed. They start strong, only to then let the competition catch up, pass them and they seem to concentrate ressources again only when they are then playing catch up themselves.

This often leads to situations like the current one with the Maps application on iOS.

Go back to your first paragraph. The Maps.app is a NATIVE maps application, which admittedly doesn't offer the same functionality that competitors' native maps applications do offer (e.g. Android). But there are plenty of apps that can fill the gap. With Safari, you're saying that Apple screwed the original developers over. If Apple implemented features like turn-by-turn in the Maps.app, that would supplant developers who have those kinds of apps in the App Store and put them out of business.

Completely different situations that have nothing to do with each other. Apple did not compete on features against KDE, they used KDE's hard work and created more work for them in the process, both profiting and leaving the work on integrating back their "contributions" to the community. It created a lot of ill will and disappointment after they had made promises of working closely with the KDE developers.

This has nothing to do with 3rd party vendors trying to add functionality to the device that should simply be there in the first place. A lot of App Store fluff is like that, stuff that Apple should've implemented themselves long ago. You do realise Apple gets a lot of their "new features" ideas for iOS straight from App Store submissions right ?

alexexexex
Jun 23, 2011, 01:17 PM
I wouldn't say so.
My father has an iPhone 4 but recently bought himself the latest Tom Tom. £150 for a device that he'll be taking all over Europe, whereas if he was to do this with his iPhone the data cost would be massive. Beyond the initial cost there's nothing else to fork out for. And it also has free over-the-air traffic updates too and can be updated through customers making new points of reference, etc.

For most people the iPhone GPS is enough, but it's not the best at all.

i got the tomtom app (all western europe) £40 and i can listen to music at the same time as it all charges and is a great solution. data charges? what data charges? its all on the device!

between that and the fact that more and more cars have satnav built in i guarantee the stand alone will become a very niche product.

specialist hikers ones will survive but not much else

odedia
Jun 23, 2011, 02:40 PM
Waze is awesome. It is an Israeli-based company. Virtually any smartphone user in Israel uses it, on iPhone, Android, Nokia and Windows Mobile. The traffic data and accuracy is unbelievable. Sometimes it takes me through weird routes just to bypass traffic jams. You also have ways to report accidents, speed cameras, traffic police etc.

Here's a link to a typical daily use in Waze, every car you see is actually a person using the software while he drives, shown up on my iPhone screen in real-time.

http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20090521/waze-Israel_screen_shot_610x328.jpg

Oh, and did I mention that it is completely free?

Friscohoya
Jun 23, 2011, 03:36 PM
Not even a bit...
If I am 5 days in the mountains... I need to change some batteries... I cant do that on the iPhone. And I am not going to take 5 3th party batteries with me. I need the space for food and drinks and maybe even a bit of soap.

These things are fun ... but when you use GPS like we do.. its a no-go.

So there will still be 50 - 100 of them sold per year.

wirelessness
Jun 23, 2011, 05:07 PM
Once Google Maps enables full offline navigation capabilities everyone else can just close up shop.

iBug2
Jun 23, 2011, 05:34 PM
You do realise Apple gets a lot of their "new features" ideas for iOS straight from App Store submissions right ?

I honestly hope you don't mean stuff like Wifi sync incident.

iBug2
Jun 23, 2011, 05:37 PM
When the only function I need is driving directions and all it has is a line drawn I need to constantly stare at while driving, yes it is a barely functioning mess. It's barely providing the function I need out of it. That makes a whole lot of mess of my driving experience.



So the application isn't a mess, it provides a lot of mess of your driving experience. Two different things.

And the application isn't barely functioning. It's providing barely the function you need, since for example I don't need that function and for me the app functions as great as any other maps app. So it's about the features of the app being insufficient for your needs. Not that the app is not working well.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 23, 2011, 06:04 PM
Here is the funny part in all of this.

Google could have OWNED the mobile market.

Originally Google didn't compete with Apple in the mobile market so there was an incentive for Apple to use Google services on the iPhone.

Now that Google is in direct competition with Apple, Apple has an incentive to keep Google services off the iPhone.

Same goes with Nokia and RIM.

None of these companies has an interest in search (user data/advertising) and would have been happy to help Google dominate the market.

Yet Google felt the need to come out with Android to get a market it already owned. Now that Google is competing with these other companies, they have an incentive to invest in technology instead of leveraging Googles technology.

In a round about way, its all pretty pointless.

captain kaos
Jun 23, 2011, 07:31 PM
Im sure this is almost a back up plan, if and when, apple want to tell google where to go!

Rodimus Prime
Jun 23, 2011, 07:36 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Google Nexus S Build/MIUI) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

The end of the standalone GPS unit is nigh.

To be honestly I do not see it. The map finding of lets say my Atrix with its navigation is still not as good as my older dedicated Garmine Navi from 2007 (even with outdated maps)

I have used google map to help find the address then I would enter it into my Garmin and use that for finding the route.

Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!

I would not think they are removing Google as their source of map data but more doing away with good for the mapping algorithums and route finding.
The current reason Maps sucks on iOS is Apple failure to updated. It lags way behind everything else.

captain kaos
Jun 23, 2011, 07:38 PM
.. i think a lot of the fun things you get with the iphone, eg: google maps with XYZ function only works in the US, with (if we're lucky) slow roll outs to the rest of the world. Then on top of that you have the issue with data services like maps being very slow if your provider has a less then reliable network!

My point being, I personnely wouldn't be using this as a "should i buy or not" reason. If it does work in my given country, then its a brilliant extra!

FreeState
Jun 23, 2011, 07:46 PM
Hmmm maybe there is a new Map app on the iPhone 5 (4gs or what ever they call it) and Googles agreement is for iPhone 4.... Which I assume will be the discounted phone when 5 comes out....