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MacRumors
Jun 23, 2011, 11:46 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/23/ipad-grabs-89-of-worldwide-97-of-u-s-tablet-web-traffic/)


comScore today released a new report (http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2011/6/comScore_Introduces_Device_Essentials) detailing its new metric for tracking web traffic by device and connection type. According to the data, Apple's iPad was responsible for 89% of worldwide tablet traffic in May, continuing to dominate the market it defined last year.The iPad is currently the dominant tablet device across all geographies, contributing more than 89 percent of tablet traffic across all markets. The iPad's contribution to total non-computer device traffic is highest in Canada (33.5 percent). Brazil has the second highest non-computer device share of traffic coming from the iPad at 31.8 percent, although non-computer devices account for less than 1 percent of total traffic in the country. In Singapore, where non-computer devices comprise nearly 6 percent of total traffic, the iPad accounts for 26.2 percent of this traffic.Calculations on comScore's data for share of non-computer traffic in the United States peg the iPad at a nearly 97% share, with Android taking nearly all of the rest of the market.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/comscore_non-computer_traffic_may11-500x313.jpg

(http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/comscore_non-computer_traffic_may11.jpg)
In the U.S., comScore finds that 53% of non-computer device traffic comes from Apple devices: 23.5% from iPhone, 21.8% from iPad, and 7.8% from iPod touch. Android follows in second place with over 36% of the market, nearly all from smartphones. comScore's report finds an interestingly wide variation in traffic patterns among countries, with Canada seemingly leading the way in iOS adoption, where Apple's platform is responsible for 83% of the non-computer device traffic.

iPad competitors, most of them based on Android, are continuing to flood the tablet market, but none have yet been able to break Apple's stranglehold. Upcoming high-profile tablet entries include HP (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/13/hp-preparing-to-take-on-apple-with-touchpad-potential-cloud-based-media-service/) next week and Amazon (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/22/amazon-set-to-step-up-as-next-ipad-competitor/) reportedly within the next few months.

Article Link: iPad Grabs 89% of Worldwide, 97% of U.S. Tablet Web Traffic (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/23/ipad-grabs-89-of-worldwide-97-of-u-s-tablet-web-traffic/)



kerryb
Jun 23, 2011, 11:53 AM
if the iPad only had flash.
(sarcasm)

3N16MA
Jun 23, 2011, 11:54 AM
It only takes one look at the competition to realize this is not surprising. Asus Eee Pad has been the only Android tablet with any type of success.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 11:54 AM
What we're seeing here is an iPod situation developing. The "tablet market" is rapidly turning into the "iPad market." Given the expected sales figures that'll be out in a couple of weeks, it'll be a big iPad market that keeps getting bigger.

If Apple's rivals don't move fast they'll be trapped in the smartphone segment.

Small White Car
Jun 23, 2011, 11:54 AM
Amazing. This is where you start to see the difference between some companies' claims of 'shipped' vs. 'actually sold.'

There's no real way to get all those actual numbers, but this is the closest you can get to a good guess.

supmango
Jun 23, 2011, 11:55 AM
Wow, even I am surprised by these statistics. I love my iPad, but surely someone can compete, can't they???:eek:

dethmaShine
Jun 23, 2011, 11:56 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/27/apple-releases-ipad-tablet-new-sdk-ibooks-and-iwork-apps/

Torbak Games
Jun 23, 2011, 11:56 AM
The reason is because it was the first out on the world market! :P :)

reactions
Jun 23, 2011, 11:57 AM
Nice but watch next year it will drop to 65% according to my research

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 11:58 AM
Wow, even I am surprised by these statistics. I love my iPad, but surely someone can compete, can't they???:eek:

The first step to competing effectively is putting out a refined, polished product. That hasn't really happened yet. Then you get to the OS issues, which need to be refined even further.

While the competition is experimenting all over the place, Apple releases complete product, ready to go.

antmarobel
Jun 23, 2011, 12:02 PM
Brazil ( WITH NO APPLE STORES SO FAR!!:mad: ) is "appling" more and more each day.:p

nagromme
Jun 23, 2011, 12:03 PM
Apple has the only complete platform for the foreseeable future. (We can imagine how others might catch up someday, but it’s a huge barrier—especially given iPad’s massive tablet-optimized app selection, and soon iOS 5/iCloud.) They have huge mindshare and are marketing actively, including their store network. They make a great product that people love and give great word-of-mouth to. They can’t be undercut meaningfully on price, leaving little incentive for anyone to settle for less. And among those who DO own other tablets, the incentive to use the thing and generate activity is less, because the device does less and does it less easily. Worst of all: the competition is hardware and software jammed together by different companies, and their “bullet point” marketing isn’t working because bullet lists don’t equal the experience delivered.

That’s a recipe for dominating web traffic!

3N16MA
Jun 23, 2011, 12:03 PM
Nice but watch next year it will drop to 65% according to my research

You're hired! New analyst position! Only requirement was that you can throw out predictions and random numbers. I look forward to seeing articles based on your mad ramblings about the future featured on MacRumors.

Lesser Evets
Jun 23, 2011, 12:03 PM
So, I read it that despite other tablets being out there, they aren't used... because they suck.

ArchaicRevival
Jun 23, 2011, 12:04 PM
I work with Verizon now, and I've played around with the Galaxy Tab, the Xoom and the Playbook... And I have to say it... Apple got it right... They always do.

Small White Car
Jun 23, 2011, 12:05 PM
So, I read it that despite other tablets being out there, they aren't used... because they suck.

Maybe. My guess is that units that "shipped" are still sitting on store shelves.

It's probably a bit of both, we'd have to guess to know which is the stronger factor.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 12:05 PM
I believe it. When you are out and about, do you see lots of iPhones and lots of Android phones and lots of non-smart phones? Yes.

When you are out and about, do you see iPads and . . . no other tablets? That's my experience.

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 12:06 PM
I don't know about Spain or Argentina, but here in Japan the iPhone is only available in the second-tier carrier: Softbank Mobile.

There's a whole lot of people who stay at NTT DoCoMo for many reasons (it has top coverage/signal, it's more established as a brand, it's kind of 'premium', etc.) and are forced into Android. They're definitely NOT your stereotype "cheapskate, doesn't buy apps, doesn't use data" android user. Apple is really losing an opportunity here. We're talking about what until not too long ago was the second economy of the world.

Some people even have two phones (iPhone for the pleasure, DoCoMo feature/android as safety), but not too many.

Besides, Softbank does sell android handsets; It's not like they swore loyalty to Apple in exchange for exclusivity or something.

The other major carrier (KDDI) is CDMA, but that isn't an obstacle now, right?

igazza
Jun 23, 2011, 12:08 PM
thats awesome, but wait 12 months and see what happens. :D

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 12:08 PM
It only takes one look at the competition to realize this is not surprising. Asus Eee Pad has been the only Android tablet with any type of success.

Then how come all we hear about is Galaxy Pad this Galaxy Pad that? :confused:

Carouser
Jun 23, 2011, 12:09 PM
Apple has the only complete platform for the foreseeable future. They have huge mindshare and are marketing actively, including their store network. They make a great product that people love and give great word-of-mouth to. They canít be undercut meaningfully on price, leaving little incentive for anyone to settle for less. And among those who DO own other tablets, the incentive to use the thing and generate activity is less, because the device does less and does it less easily.

Yup. The demand is for iPads. There was never any significant demand for 'computing tablets' in general so other companies are trying to hijack the hype and redirect the demand for iPads towards their devices.

Consultant
Jun 23, 2011, 12:09 PM
Of course. None of the other knockoffs are selling, because the true price is not hidden by carrier subsidy.

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 12:12 PM
Brazil ( WITH NO APPLE STORES SO FAR!!:mad: ) is "appling" more and more each day.:p

...and soon a factory :)

jman240
Jun 23, 2011, 12:13 PM
Not at all surprising.

You have the Droids which seem to have a new flavor each month which advertise awesome specs like the Tegra chip and lots of ram. You know, things that tablet consumers could really care less about...
The incomplete Playbook without a native email client... Not to mention its tiny
And the yet to be released TouchPad which has awesome integration with the Pre, which no one is using...
Is Microsoft even alive? I actually like their idea for a touch based "tile" UI, except that it comes with battery sucking Windows 8 attached...

Yeah, not at all surprising.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 12:17 PM
thats awesome, but wait 12 months and see what happens. :D

:)

The funny thing is that is precisely what people were saying 12 months ago. 2011 was supposed to be the year the iPad got competition and dropped down to about 65% of the market. Oh well, I suppose if people keep saying "just wait 12 months" eventually . . . a lot of time will have been wasted waiting.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 12:21 PM
Yup. The demand is for iPads. There was never any significant demand for 'computing tablets' in general so other companies are trying to hijack the hype and redirect the demand for iPads towards their devices.

That really is a good point. For ten years Microsoft partnered with hardware vendors to sell tablets, and for ten years they never could get the general public interested in tablets.

The iPad comes along and suddenly everyone wants an iPad, but the same dimwits that thought they could sell tablets before now suddenly think the general public finally wants what they are selling. They don't. They want iPads.

This may change eventually, but to get an iPad user to switch, you have to make something a) better and/or b) cheaper with c) a better ecosystem. Good luck with that.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 12:26 PM
That really is a good point. For ten years Microsoft partnered with hardware vendors to sell tablets, and for ten years they never could get the general public interested in tablets.

The iPad comes along and suddenly everyone wants an iPad, but the same dimwits that thought they could sell tablets before now suddenly think the general public finally wants what they are selling. They don't. They want iPads.

This may change eventually, but to get an iPad user to switch, you have to make something a) better and/or b) cheaper with c) a better ecosystem. Good luck with that.

Apropos . . .

http://allthingsd.com/20110620/consumers-dont-want-tablets-they-want-ipads/

Tiger8
Jun 23, 2011, 12:27 PM
I think it might be a better-than-iPod situation for Apple. Not only did Apple build the best selling tablet, but the price point is SPOT ON that no other competitor was able to compete.

Apple did not have that with iPod. Yes it is the number one MP3 player, but some competitors, such as Creative, managed to get a respectable piece of the market based on price. No one is able to do that in tablet market, unless Amazon has something planned...

reactions
Jun 23, 2011, 12:28 PM
You're hired! New analyst position! Only requirement was that you can throw out predictions and random numbers. I look forward to seeing articles based on your mad ramblings about the future featured on MacRumors.

And here lies the irony of my post ! Please feel to thumb down it though as I did myself.

I was being fictitious gents; I know as much as you guys do including anaylists

That's nothing !

Eidorian
Jun 23, 2011, 12:28 PM
That really is a good point. For ten years Microsoft partnered with hardware vendors to sell tablets, and for ten years they never could get the general public interested in tablets.

The iPad comes along and suddenly everyone wants an iPad, but the same dimwits that thought they could sell tablets before now suddenly think the general public finally wants what they are selling. They don't. They want iPads.

This may change eventually, but to get an iPad user to switch, you have to make something a) better and/or b) cheaper with c) a better ecosystem. Good luck with that.I am just going to continue avoiding this tablet plague. Not that the propaganda is bad enough.

ericinboston
Jun 23, 2011, 12:30 PM
Although wonderful news, it's not much to brag about when you're (or have been since the market opened) the only kid on the block. iPad competitors started when?...a few months ago?

Let's see January 2012 when more Tablets are out and after the big holiday spending spree. :)

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 12:31 PM
I am just going to continue avoiding this tablet plague. Not that the propaganda is bad enough.

At some point it might become unavoidable.

M-O
Jun 23, 2011, 12:33 PM
for anyone interested in totals:
60.81% iOS
17.6% Android
21.59% Other

AAPLaday
Jun 23, 2011, 12:34 PM
I am just going to continue avoiding this tablet plague. Not that the propaganda is bad enough.

I had an iPad for a few months. Its a cool device. Good for surfing and general use. In doses. After 20 mins or so i was hankering to get back on my iMac so i could go back to typing at normal speed and also view my Twitter/facebook feed, while listening to iTunes/Spotify, edit a photo in GIMP and manage multiple apps.

I just found that it slowed me down if i tried to use more than one app at once or type more than a few sentences.

RawBert
Jun 23, 2011, 12:34 PM
If it's a choice between iPad and a knockoff and both are priced about the same, most people will choose iPad. Regardless of the specs or Flash.
The competition would have to come down on price by a lot and still maintain those high specs they promote so much. The profit margin would be razor thin and that's IF they sell.

So the iPad will remain KING for a long while.

nwcs
Jun 23, 2011, 12:35 PM
You know, it is living proof that the market out there doesn't think the same way as many posters here. Who would have guessed this when the iPad was announced last year? Apple laughs last... and hardest it seems.

Eidorian
Jun 23, 2011, 12:35 PM
At some point it might become unavoidable.When someone decides to shove one into my hands for free, sure. I will just have another internet device sitting around the house gathering dust. It feels like reckless consumerism to spend my hard earned money on it otherwise.

Thankfully, I do not have to watch that many commercials anymore.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 12:35 PM
I think the Galaxy Tab went on sale last fall, so we're talking about close to a year of sales, including last year's Christmas spending spree.

And if you don't like tablets of any kind, you are going to hate the next decade. The post-PC era has begun.

reactions
Jun 23, 2011, 12:39 PM
You're hired! New analyst position! Only requirement was that you can throw out predictions and random numbers. I look forward to seeing articles based on your mad ramblings about the future featured on MacRumors.

Can we stop saying "post pc era" because its an obnoxious buzz word

Plus tablets are still relatively small in sales versus pcs

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 12:40 PM
:)

The funny thing is that is precisely what people were saying 12 months ago. 2011 was supposed to be the year the iPad got competition and dropped down to about 65% of the market. Oh well, I suppose if people keep saying "just wait 12 months" eventually . . . a lot of time will have been wasted waiting.

Hey, there's always next year.

It's the motto of our Toronto Maple Leafs, where mediocrity is served for breakfast, lunch, and playoffs.

It's particularly fitting here.

canucksfan88
Jun 23, 2011, 12:41 PM
this isn't surprising at all...

- Apple was basically first into the market
- They had first mover advantage into the market
- The prestigious Apple Brand

I would have been surprised if Apple didn't have this large of a market share.

ESPN
Jun 23, 2011, 12:42 PM
I doubt other tablets will ever catch up. Apple has pioneered the tablet market and even now other companies are still releasing tablets.

This is similar to PC vs Mac

PC had a booming start and look now, 90% are PC users. the other 10% are "other" users.

As long as Apple continues to update ipad, like windows 95, 98 , ME, xp, vista , 7 from microsoft, we shouldn't be surprised over such a large part of the marketshare.

Carouser
Jun 23, 2011, 12:42 PM
Although wonderful news, it's not much to brag about when you're (or have been since the market opened) the only kid on the block. iPad competitors started when?...a few months ago?

Actually, every company in the world had just as much time as Apple. Apple deserves kudos for having the foresight, taking the risk, and putting the product together when they did. It's not like someone told Samsung 'you are not allowed to develop a tablet product until Apple has a head start'. Nobody said 'ok now the market is open and you are allowed to make tablets'.

This may change eventually, but to get an iPad user to switch, you have to make something a) better and/or b) cheaper with c) a better ecosystem. Good luck with that.

Apropos . . .[link]

There are a few options for Apple's competitors:
1) convince people to not buy an iPad outright
2) try to make a directly competing product (similar price/spec/intent)
3) compete on price (lower) or spec (higher)
4) make something else to take people's disposable $500. This could be anything. A better laptop. A toaster. I don't care.
5) make something else to take a fraction of people's disposable $500. This will inhibit iPad purchases as it will limit the disposable money consumers have available.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 12:43 PM
this isn't surprising at all...

- Apple was basically first into the market
- They had first mover advantage into the market
- The prestigious Apple Brand

I would have been surprised if Apple didn't have this large of a market share.

You missed "great hardware" and "great software", and "complete and cohesive ecosystem that isn't a big cluster****."

Otherwise, you nailed it.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 12:43 PM
Can we stop saying "post pc era" because its an obnoxious buzz word

Plus tablets are still relatively small in sales versus pcs

I'm sorry you view it as merely a buzz word. It's an accurate reflection of what is happening to technology, and more importantly what is going to happen in the future. My prediction is that by 2020 the majority of consumer computer purchases will be in a tablet form. I'm being conservative.

Every time we hit a new wave, the existing users of the previous wave's technology feel the way you do about the next wave. It never matters, the new wave is always bigger than the previous one as it brings in new users. This is going to be an interesting decade.

ESPN
Jun 23, 2011, 12:45 PM
I think the Galaxy Tab went on sale last fall, so we're talking about close to a year of sales, including last year's Christmas spending spree.

And if you don't like tablets of any kind, you are going to hate the next decade. The post-PC era has begun.

Seriously? you think that ipads and Macs can take over Windows,

Most people don't even used tablets and tablets are regarded as an overpriced, unnecessary item.

Windows market has been stabilized for quite a number of years now, if Macs can barely cut in to Windows monopoly, you expect tablets to dominate, your logic is seriously flawed.

P-Worm
Jun 23, 2011, 12:45 PM
When someone decides to shove one into my hands for free, sure. I will just have another internet device sitting around the house gathering dust. It feels like reckless consumerism to spend my hard earned money on it otherwise.

Thankfully, I do not have to watch that many commercials anymore.

I just don't get the consumerism of cellular phones when I can use my phone cheaply at home. It feels like reckless consumerism to spend my hard earned money on it otherwise.

Thankfully, I do not have to watch that many commercials anymore.

P-Worm

-=XX=-Nephilim
Jun 23, 2011, 12:47 PM
Only way for iPad is the way down.

Apple stands no chance with such crippled product in the long run :)

You can watch its fall from this Autumn onwards...

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 12:48 PM
Actually, every company in the world had just as much time as Apple. Apple deserves kudos for having the foresight, taking the risk, and putting the product together when they did. It's not like someone told Samsung 'you are not allowed to develop a tablet product until Apple has a head start'. Nobody said 'ok now the market is open and you are allowed to make tablets'.





There are a few options for Apple's competitors:
1) convince people to not buy an iPad outright
2) try to make a directly competing product (similar price/spec/intent)
3) compete on price (lower) or spec (higher)
4) make something else to take people's disposable $500. This could be anything. A better laptop. A toaster. I don't care.
5) make something else to take a fraction of people's disposable $500. This will inhibit iPad purchases as it will limit the disposable money consumers have available.

1) Good luck. Will they tell consumers it causes cancer and kills puppies?
2) This is happening now and it isn't working
3) This might have some chance. But make the product any cheaper and the consumer will possibly end up with junk.
4) This doesn't make any sense. There are HDTVs for the $800 I spent on my iPad. We're moving toward tablets. You either want one or you don't. Other products have nothing to do with it unless they're viable iPad replacements. See #2.
5) This makes even less sense than #4.

Eidorian
Jun 23, 2011, 12:48 PM
I just don't get the consumerism of cellular phones when I can use my phone cheaply at home. It feels like reckless consumerism to spend my hard earned money on it otherwise.

Thankfully, I do not have to watch that many commercials anymore.

P-WormAre you me?

P-Worm
Jun 23, 2011, 12:49 PM
Only way for iPad is the way down.

Apple stands no chance with such crippled product in the long run :)

You can watch its fall from this Autumn onwards...

The market can increase allowing Apple to sell more. Percentages are only part of the story.

P-Worm

Are you me?

No, just stating I don't own a cell phone.

P-Worm

foiden
Jun 23, 2011, 12:50 PM
The thing is Apple isn't selling just the tablet with the iPad. They are also selling the entire ecosystem that it inevitably runs off of. Who else owns such a long developed e-store sector started back with the hugely popular iTunes. Who else designs both the software and hardware for the units. Who else also has a full blown cloud storage service built-in for free? Who else also offers hardware which will talk directly to their own tablet, with lots of instant sharing options? Like one button switching to viewing on TV through wi-fi? Who else has actual single stores all around the place, with dedicated people willing to help you will all your tablet needs?

At this time, this is what they are selling. As others gains something, Apple keeps having more of it all internally and sorted out. The fact that it all happens in tandem and made with fully communicated goals in place, is unique. Others will simply throw in some feature and then say, "Um. Let others sort it out."

It's also what removes complication for the consumers. It's a one stop, shop, and fix vehicle. So when you include all of that with the price of the iPad, the consumers want that stuff. No complication. Just one store. Once iOS5 is out, and people can cut the cord, this whole thing would be finalized from a all-around flavor. Sure, there's some potential aspects of other tablets, but their entire business model is different, and how they support it is only a minor subset of Apple's. They don't just choose to run it different. They simply have to, with what they have.

The only PC-business model consideration Apple has the advantage of, is the sheer number of Apps. That'll get some wanting the iPad, but the truth is that there's a lot more than just App envy.

jupiter_312
Jun 23, 2011, 12:51 PM
I have a Viewsonic G-tablet running Gingerbread, and I LOVE it. I do wish I had the better tablet app selection of the iPad, but I mainly use mine for surfing and email. And it was only $279.

But what may be messing with some of these stats, a lot of Android tablet users set their browser's user agent to "iPad". I know I do so that I use any iPad optimized sites properly (Gmail and Google Docs).

starflyer
Jun 23, 2011, 12:54 PM
Seriously? you think that ipads and Macs can take over Windows,

Most people don't even used tablets and tablets are regarded as an overpriced, unnecessary item.

Windows market has been stabilized for quite a number of years now, if Macs can barely cut in to Windows monopoly, you expect tablets to dominate, your logic is seriously flawed.

Are you referring to market share of profit share?

AAPLaday
Jun 23, 2011, 12:55 PM
I'm sorry you view it as merely a buzz word. It's an accurate reflection of what is happening to technology, and more importantly what is going to happen in the future. My prediction is that by 2020 the majority of consumer computer purchases will be in a tablet form. I'm being conservative.

Every time we hit a new wave, the existing users of the previous wave's technology feel the way you do about the next wave. It never matters, the new wave is always bigger than the previous one as it brings in new users. This is going to be an interesting decade.

The iPads a great complimentary device but IMO its still got some way to go before it can realistically be an average users only computer. If your just talking about sales then 2020 sounds about right but how many would still have a laptop/computer as well? Plus the fact that i have had my iMac for nearly 4 years now. Will Apple support iPads for longer than they do iPhones? Or are consumers expected to buy a new one every 2 years?

Eidorian
Jun 23, 2011, 12:56 PM
No, just stating I don't own a cell phone.

P-WormThen you are me.

Carouser
Jun 23, 2011, 12:57 PM
1) Good luck. Will they tell consumers it causes cancer and kills puppies?
2) This is happening now and it isn't working
3) This might have some chance. But make the product any cheaper and the consumer will possibly end up with junk.
4) This doesn't make any sense. There are HDTVs for the $800 I spent on my iPad. We're moving toward tablets. You either want one or you don't. Other products have nothing to do with it unless they're viable iPad replacements. See #2.
5) This makes even less sense than #4.

:confused: I'm agreeing with what you've sad in the thread. I never said these were good options, some are patently and obviously bad. These bad options are what are open to manufacturers, which is why they are on their heels.

And as for points 4 and 5, competition happens at the margins. People who buy an iPad aren't going to be able to spend that $500 elsewhere. That's it. If industries can get people's priorities to shift away from tablets (iPads over X-Box; food over fuel; savings over spending; vice-versa) then some products will take a hit. Total tablet demand is not fixed. Perhaps we are talking across purposes.

***

EDIT: Second point, raised by others. Even if people still need desktops/laptops, they just need access to them. I know many households with multiple computers because they have children in school, or university students, and computers for parents' home offices, etc. It will be far cheaper and smarter to just have one desktop per household and a bunch of tablets, or even to leave the desktop-specific tasks to the public library, the university labs, or the main office. Not every PC has to be obliterated to be post-PC.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 12:59 PM
Only way for iPad is the way down.

Apple stands no chance with such crippled product in the long run :)

You can watch its fall from this Autumn onwards...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=9182020&postcount=51

January 2010
OMG I am so excited about iPad!!!

- no I can't multitask
- no I can't do video conferencing due to lack of camera
- no I can't install anything I want on it
- no I can't browse the net properly due to lack of Flash
- no I don't have USB port on it

But I am excited!!!

Well at least until I do reality check and see other Tablet devices from competing manufactures...

:D


Your "reality check" has arrived:

http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2011/6/comScore_Introduces_Device_Essentials

http://allthingsd.com/20110620/consumers-dont-want-tablets-they-want-ipads/

I assume you were expecting a different reality?

jmpnop
Jun 23, 2011, 01:00 PM
Seriously? you think that ipads and Macs can take over Windows,

Most people don't even used tablets and tablets are regarded as an overpriced, unnecessary item.

Windows market has been stabilized for quite a number of years now, if Macs can barely cut in to Windows monopoly, you expect tablets to dominate, your logic is seriously flawed.

+1

Apple lost the PC war long ago. So, Steve is pushing this "Post PC-era" thing which Apple fans are blindly believing. PCs are (and will be) used for professional work. Even for simple things I prefer PC many times because of its bigger screen and better OS. Tablets will be a new market, it won't replace anything. Its like smartphone replacing PCs which is meaningless.

eastercat
Jun 23, 2011, 01:01 PM
Nice but watch next year it will drop to 65% according to my researchCareful, otherwise someone will confuse you with one of the fandroids.

Then how come all we hear about is Galaxy Pad this Galaxy Pad that? :confused:Probably due to the fandroids who like to flood our boards.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:02 PM
The thing is Apple isn't selling just the tablet with the iPad. They are also selling the entire ecosystem that it inevitably runs off of.

Exactly. And when it comes to the Apple ecosystem, there's no comparison.

inkswamp
Jun 23, 2011, 01:02 PM
It only takes one look at the competition to realize this is not surprising. Asus Eee Pad has been the only Android tablet with any type of success.

Yep. The iPad is no doubt a great product but at this point, the rest of the market is giving Apple a free ride. There's just no competition.

My daughter and I played around with a Playbook on display at a local office store and both came away thoroughly unimpressed. Besides the fact that it just felt like a cheap piece of hardware, I kept trying to launch the browser which crashed repeatedly on me. Also, we both were completely befuddled by the unintuitive gestures you have to use to get around in the UI which itself seemed overwrought.

jmcrutch
Jun 23, 2011, 01:03 PM
we would have seen these same sort of percentages with the iPhone if it had been available to everyone, i.e., available on all carriers. But it wasn't, and people are very tied to particular carriers for a variety of reasons, so there was a window of opportunity for the competitors to get a foothold.

With the iPad, it's available to pretty much everyone, thus competitors don't have the same chance that they had with the phone.

iPad is pretty much just like the iPod market.

foiden
Jun 23, 2011, 01:03 PM
Not to mention, the main folks who drove iPad sales aren't the Apple fans. That's the funniest thing about it. Heck, enough of us were ready to write iPad off as soon as it was announced. (Nah. He doesn't know what he's doing, even though yeah tablets failed. They couldn't have failed because of what he's saying.)

Then I think a lot of us got a reality check when Apple managed to convince the world (outside of the Apple-loving crowd) to buy the thing in droves.

Eidorian
Jun 23, 2011, 01:04 PM
Exactly. And when it comes to the Apple ecosystem, there's no comparison.Best to escape while you still can.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:05 PM
+1

Apple lost the PC war long ago.

Apple's penalty for losing the PC war in the 1990s is that they're now the most profitable PC maker in the world. Mac sales growth has outpaced the industry for over 20 consecutive quarters. Apple owns the $1000+ category.

Closed licensing of OS X was the right decision - no question, both for ensuring a superior user experience and for keeping OS X out of the hands of cheap box-assemblers. Both are related, of course.

In light of Apple's transition to mobile and the development of iOS (which is now spreading to Macs with Lion), Apple has in fact won the PC war by fighting an entirely different set of battles.

inkswamp
Jun 23, 2011, 01:06 PM
Seriously? you think that ipads and Macs can take over Windows,

Most people don't even used tablets and tablets are regarded as an overpriced, unnecessary item.

Windows market has been stabilized for quite a number of years now, if Macs can barely cut in to Windows monopoly, you expect tablets to dominate, your logic is seriously flawed.

Seriously? You think these new graphical computers with a mouse pointer can take over IBM PCs running DOS?

Most people don't even use GUIs and these new computers are regarded as an overpriced, unnecessary item.

The IBM PC market has been stabilized for quite a number of years now. If you expect these new GUI-based computers to dominate, your logic is seriously flawed.

/typical computer geek viewpoint circa 1984

DiamondMac
Jun 23, 2011, 01:07 PM
And I am sure it will be growing leaps and bounds coming up with more TV apps, streaming apps, etc....coming onto the App Store

Wheh, thank goodness we have that huge 2gb cap for that.

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 01:08 PM
That really is a good point. For ten years Microsoft partnered with hardware vendors to sell tablets, and for ten years they never could get the general public interested in tablets.

The iPad comes along and suddenly everyone wants an iPad, but the same dimwits that thought they could sell tablets before now suddenly think the general public finally wants what they are selling. They don't. They want iPads.

This may change eventually, but to get an iPad user to switch, you have to make something a) better and/or b) cheaper with c) a better ecosystem. Good luck with that.

I believe Microsoft wants to think they're doing fine in the desktop simply because people love their products.

When a new category is started from scratch and they fail to make a dent on it, it becomes obvious that a great part of their success is actually due to lock-in. This is not something to be proud of, of course.

Once they realize this, they try desperately to shoe horn their only 'one trick' (as in 'one trick pony') into this new category.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:08 PM
I believe Microsoft wants to think they're doing fine in the desktop simply because people love their products.

When a new category is started from scratch and they fail to make a dent on it, it becomes obvious that a great part of their success is actually due to lock-in. This is not something to be proud of, of course.

Once they realize this, they try desperately to shoe horn their only 'one trick' (as in 'one trick pony') into this new category.

This is what's happening now.

Ashin
Jun 23, 2011, 01:10 PM
Thing is, once Apple capture a market share, it's hard for people to switch due to paid apps

Android tablets are a huge failure, no surprise since all they did was copy Apple and reach the market far too late

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:13 PM
Thing is, once Apple capture a market share, it's hard for people to switch due to paid apps

Android tablets are a huge failure, no surprise since all they did was copy Apple and reach the market far too late

If they had copied Apple effectively, then Android would be an elegant, clean, polished OS.

If Google respected their product and the end user, they would have licensed Android to *no one.*

But Google, as we know, isn't after the best experience. They're after the biggest share. By flooding the market.

kdarling
Jun 23, 2011, 01:15 PM
Amazing. This is where you start to see the difference between some companies' claims of 'shipped' vs. 'actually sold.'

There's no real way to get all those actual numbers, but this is the closest you can get to a good guess.

This is just free advertising for Comscore's real products. And the chart is about people surfing websites that use Comscore web tags. It doesn't give sales, or usage of all websites. Just usage of their covered sites.

In the U.S., comScore finds that 53% of non-computer device traffic comes from Apple devices: 23.5% from iPhone, 21.8% from iPad, and 7.8% from iPod touch.

Interesting numbers.

According to Apple, their total world iOS sales ratios to date are ~ 5:3:1 (iPhone, iPodt, iPad).

Yet Comscore sees a USA web usage ratio of ~ 3:1:3.

So, assuming that USA sales ratios are similar to world ones, it doesn't seem that web usage equates to sales very well.

.

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 01:18 PM
+1

Apple lost the PC war long ago. So, Steve is pushing this "Post PC-era" thing which Apple fans are blindly believing. PCs are (and will be) used for professional work. Even for simple things I prefer PC many times because of its bigger screen and better OS. Tablets will be a new market, it won't replace anything. Its like smartphone replacing PCs which is meaningless.

Personally, since I got the iPhone, it has replaced some 70% of my desktop-web browsing. Simply because before, I only had a desktop.

My ideal device to do work is an iMac. That's probably related to the kind of work I do. But for me, a laptop is in no way better than an iPad, it's just out of the question. I can see myself working on a laptop just as much as on an iPad, i.e. zero.

And then, there's a lot of other stuff besides work (or that people in other industries could do as real work) that I would like to do on the move, and here, I believe the iPad is way better/comfortable.

The problem with laptops is that they are designed around a compromise. They try to be a desktop that can also be transported. But personal computers were thought as devices to be used sitting on a chair at a table. The whole laptop idea is a dirt hack.

just my $0.02.

spiderman0616
Jun 23, 2011, 01:20 PM
The stats make sense--as someone else said, how often do you see a non iPad tablet when you're out and about? There is one guy on my train to and from work that always has his Motorola Xoom out. Other than that, I never see anything but Kindles, occasionally Nooks, and iPads.

I have wanted a good tablet for many years now. The industry's first attempt at tablets didn't do it for me, but the iPad was just what I was looking for. I tried some Android stuff and they just weren't nearly as good. The tablet that's beating everyone is the iPad and it deserves its success. It's my favorite device now by far.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:20 PM
The problem with laptops is that they are designed around a compromise. They try to be a desktop that can also be transported. But personal computers were thought as devices to be used sitting on a chair at a table. The whole laptop idea is a dirt hack.


Well put. Now that you mention it, it does seem like that doesn't it.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 01:22 PM
Seriously? you think that ipads and Macs can take over Windows,

Most people don't even used tablets and tablets are regarded as an overpriced, unnecessary item.

Windows market has been stabilized for quite a number of years now, if Macs can barely cut in to Windows monopoly, you expect tablets to dominate, your logic is seriously flawed.

Seriously, and I said nothing about Macs, merely tablets. By 2020, the majority of consumer computer purchases will be tablets. Not Macs. Not PCs. Tablets.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 01:27 PM
The iPads a great complimentary device but IMO its still got some way to go before it can realistically be an average users only computer. If your just talking about sales then 2020 sounds about right but how many would still have a laptop/computer as well? Plus the fact that i have had my iMac for nearly 4 years now. Will Apple support iPads for longer than they do iPhones? Or are consumers expected to buy a new one every 2 years?

When each new era arrives, the next group of users dwarfs the previous group. That happened when mainframes gave way to minis, and when minis gave way to PCs. The next era is always more approachable to a greater number of users who were intimidated by the previous era's tech.

So when I predict that by 2020 the majority (at least 51%) of the consumer (who knows what the business world will do by then, but I think many tablets will go there too) computer (not phone) purchase will be tablets. Not iPads, tablets. Not 2011 tablets, 2020 versions of tablets.

And many of those users in 2020 will be people who never did get a PC because they were intimidated by them, but they will love their touch tablets. The group of users expands.

As for how many of us will also have laptops and Macs/PCs in our homes, quite a few will. The Post-PC era does not mean PCs go away, any more than mainframes disappeared. Laptops will continue to be used where it makes sense to use them. But more tablets will be sold to consumers.

Digitalclips
Jun 23, 2011, 01:27 PM
Amazing. This is where you start to see the difference between some companies' claims of 'shipped' vs. 'actually sold.'

There's no real way to get all those actual numbers, but this is the closest you can get to a good guess.

My exact thought when I read this.

ranReloaded
Jun 23, 2011, 01:29 PM
Well put. Now that you mention it, it does seem like that doesn't it.

I understand that for some people it is more than acceptable.

But the very idea of being stuck with a 15inch-17 inch screen, palm rest and track pad is terrifying. I've tried friends' MacBooks etc. it just won't cut it for me. And the whole hinged design... it's usable only on a desk!

The iPad, on the other hand, is just one surface. Like a book. Too bad it's somehow hard to type on.

munkery
Jun 23, 2011, 01:38 PM
I have noticed that electronic store flyers advertise Windows and Android tablets but do not have iPads in either the tablet or Apple sections of the flyer. Always thought this was odd. Maybe it is due to these iPad alternatives not moving off the shelf as fast as initially expected.

The release of iOS 5 along with OTA updates will mean that some users will be able to resort to using an iPad as their primary computing device. Users that will be able to do so are those that just use a computer to browse the web, check emails, and other basic tasks which represents a good chunk of users.

The iPad now being able to be used as a primary device and no longer leaning toward being just another gadget should make it more attractive to consumers and possibly allow it to bite into laptop sales. Given that iOS already has half the market share of OS X, I won't be surprised if iOS has a greater market share than OS X in the future despite not thinking this was possible when the iPad was first released.

The new iPads with their black or white bezels seemed to be the new MacBook.

spiderman0616
Jun 23, 2011, 01:42 PM
I understand that for some people it is more than acceptable.

But the very idea of being stuck with a 15inch-17 inch screen, palm rest and track pad is terrifying. I've tried friends' MacBooks etc. it just won't cut it for me. And the whole hinged design... it's usable only on a desk!

The iPad, on the other hand, is just one surface. Like a book. Too bad it's somehow hard to type on.

Some people have probably noticed me saying this a lot by now, but I always hated the laptop form factor. It's great for if I want to do work in the kitchen, but other than that I hate it. They're a pain to travel with, they're a pain to use on a train or airplane, they're a pain getting through terminals. You need a whole other bag a lot of times to carry them around, they are battery hogs. The list goes on.

The iPad was the answer to all this for me. It's in my backpack at all times, and in the grand scheme of things, doesn't weigh anything. It only needs to be charged every 3 or 4 days. I've even gotten myself used to typing on it, and it's really not that bad!

-=XX=-Nephilim
Jun 23, 2011, 01:43 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=9182020&postcount=51

January 2010



Your "reality check" has arrived:

http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2011/6/comScore_Introduces_Device_Essentials

http://allthingsd.com/20110620/consumers-dont-want-tablets-they-want-ipads/

I assume you were expecting a different reality?

I Still don't own any tablet... why?

Simply because they are all crap at the moment and by far the worst one of the lot is exactly the iPad.

I said in this forums so many times that I would take iPad only if it is given to me free of charge just so I can flog it next day :)

It is by far the worst product Apple has ever produced - people are just stupid and easily manipulated to think they need it - that is all...

Now, this all doesn't mean that I won't buy some tablet device in near future but that device has to offer much more and be much better than what is currently available on the market...

Saying all that, things are getting there, slowly... Windows 8 based tablet seams like it will be by far the best choice in near future, failing that, Android 'Ice Cream Sandwich' and beyond sounds good enough... We will see - there is no need to rush with toys :)

AAPLaday
Jun 23, 2011, 01:44 PM
Some people have probably noticed me saying this a lot by now, but I always hated the laptop form factor. It's great for if I want to do work in the kitchen, but other than that I hate it. They're a pain to travel with, they're a pain to use on a train or airplane, they're a pain getting through terminals. You need a whole other bag a lot of times to carry them around, they are battery hogs. The list goes on.

The iPad was the answer to all this for me. It's in my backpack at all times, and in the grand scheme of things, doesn't weigh anything. It only needs to be charged every 3 or 4 days. I've even gotten myself used to typing on it, and it's really not that bad!

The Airs make wonderful travel companions, much better than MBPs ;)

asphalt-proof
Jun 23, 2011, 01:45 PM
I'm a big fan of Apple products and I had planned on purchasing an iPad tomorrow but I'm now hesitant. Amazon has the best chance of making a tablet because it could incorporate the most important advantages the iPad has: an eco system. They already have all the pieces in place and with their Prime option, they have a bunch of 'free' tv and movies available. If they can get the software/OS pieces in place and make it a seamless experience for the consumer, I think it will be an epic battle between the two companies.

Android does not have this comprehensive system built in and ready to go for the consumer. I really don't think Android is going to make a lot of inroads till Google can provide an "all-in'one" ecosystem that is dead simple to use. They have all the components but it's a mess to use.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:51 PM
I Still don't own any tablet... why?

Simply because they are all crap at the moment and by far the worst one of the lot is exactly the iPad.

Which by all available facts is actually the *best* of the lot.

Trolling really isn't your thing, is it.

Eidorian
Jun 23, 2011, 01:51 PM
I'm a big fan of Apple products and I had planned on purchasing an iPad tomorrow but I'm now hesitant. Amazon has the best chance of making a tablet because it could incorporate the most important advantages the iPad has: an eco system. They already have all the pieces in place and with their Prime option, they have a bunch of 'free' tv and movies available. If they can get the software/OS pieces in place and make it a seamless experience for the consumer, I think it will be an epic battle between the two companies. I was considering getting a Kindle to store documentation and the books are just so damn cheap for the Kindle versions. I would only use it for any materials that I would be unable to easily or quickly procure from the library or through OverDrive.

The chance of a tablet elicits some additional interest but I still feel extremely wary.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 01:54 PM
I Still don't own any tablet... why?

Because, according to your signature, you are boycotting iOS devices, and none of the iOS competitor devices works as well as you want. Fine, that's your loss.

But these things are tools, not toys. I do feel sorry for naysayers who only have slogans to spout. It used to be easier for you. 18 months ago you could spout that no one will buy an iPad. That lack of Flash would be a deal-breaker. That it was nothing more than a large iPod touch.

As the last 18 months went by and none of those predictions came true, and as iPads were eagerly bought by more people than anyone dreamed possible, all you have left is "it's a toy," which any iPad user laughs at as being hopelessly untrue.

BTW, Microsoft is making a critical mistake by making their tablets run Windows, but they will learn their mistake in time. But that you see this as a strength tells me where your thinking is: Strictly back in the old PC camp. I think you are going to hate this next decade.

KingCrimson
Jun 23, 2011, 01:55 PM
So about 10% of tablets are not iPads BUT nobody browses the web on them!

KingCrimson
Jun 23, 2011, 01:56 PM
BTW, Microsoft is making a critical mistake by making their tablets run Windows, but they will learn their mistake in time. But that you see this as a strength tells me where your thinking is: Strictly back in the old PC camp. I think you are going to hate this next decade.

You know this how? If the first Windows 8 tablet runs as smooth as the iPad with the same battery life AND no crashing what will you say then?

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:56 PM
I was considering getting a Kindle to store documentation and the books are just so damn cheap for the Kindle versions. I would only use it for any materials that I would be unable to easily or quickly procure from the library or through OverDrive.

The chance of a tablet elicits some additional interest but I still feel extremely wary.

Well at least it's no longer a plague:

I am just going to continue avoiding this tablet plague. Not that the propaganda is bad enough.

Who knows, in another 1-2 hours you'll get to the point where you can't wait to get a tablet. ;)

SandynJosh
Jun 23, 2011, 01:56 PM
The first step to competing effectively is putting out a refined, polished product. That hasn't really happened yet. Then you get to the OS issues, which need to be refined even further.

While the competition is experimenting all over the place, Apple releases complete product, ready to go.

It's not the "product" that is putting Apple ahead, it's the whole ball of wax that the product is part of. The bigger the ball of wax, the harder any other "stand-alone product" will have at competing.

As long as Apple's competitors hold to your logic, i.e. "a refined, polished product," the further behind they will slide. By now, Apple has built a highly refined, polished ecosystem in which the iOS and the Mac OS thrive. The iCloud, Lion, and upcoming iOS5 is designed to make that ecosystem even more compelling.

And speaking of compelling, let's not forget Apple's awesome marketing capability. Apple's new iPhones and iPads will hit the market along with iCloud and Lion, so I'd expect Apple to be ratcheting up the advertising about then. And if past ads are any indicator, Apple will be making a big point of how nice their products work for the user as part of the whole ecosystem experience.

Does any other manufacturer have advertising as compelling as Apple's? Does any other manufacturer have a story to tell? To date, Apple's competitors are still trying to sell on specification, not solutions. Well, except for the RIM Playbook who have no specs to tout. RIM self-proclaims the Playbook as "The Only Professional Tablet." Yet it can't hook directly to the internet or handle email, while having the battery life of about 4 hours.

ChazUK
Jun 23, 2011, 01:57 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 3.1; en-us; Xoom Build/HMJ37) AppleWebKit/534.13 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Safari/534.13)

iPad is dominating. Good to see such a solid product do well to be honest.Hopefully those numbers will bolster HTML5 over flash too.

- Sent from my Xoom :D

Eidorian
Jun 23, 2011, 01:57 PM
Well at least it's no longer a plague:

Who knows, in another 1-2 hours you'll get to the point where you can't wait to get a tablet. ;)I feel disgusted already. "Ecosystem" just brings a needless product incest feedback loop that I want to avoid at all costs.

I was already burned hard with OS X. Now it is just a countdown to destruction.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 01:59 PM
You know this how? If the first Windows 8 tablet runs as smooth as the iPad with the same battery life AND no crashing what will you say then?

Well it doesn't run smooth *now*.

Excel on a touch screen. Yikes.

There are DEEP problems here already.

http://allthingsd.com/20110620/windows-for-the-app-age-microsofts-steven-sinofskys-full-d9-interview-video/

SandynJosh
Jun 23, 2011, 02:02 PM
You know this how? If the first Windows 8 tablet runs as smooth as the iPad with the same battery life AND no crashing what will you say then?

I'd say Microsoft had finally made a product that didn't crash. Strange that you should make that as a condition in your post. ;)

RWinOR
Jun 23, 2011, 02:08 PM
Then how come all we hear about is Galaxy Pad this Galaxy Pad that? :confused:

Because Android Fans have no where else to go. :rolleyes:

jmpnop
Jun 23, 2011, 02:09 PM
When each new era arrives, the next group of users dwarfs the previous group. That happened when mainframes gave way to minis, and when minis gave way to PCs. The next era is always more approachable to a greater number of users who were intimidated by the previous era's tech.

So when I predict that by 2020 the majority (at least 51%) of the consumer (who knows what the business world will do by then, but I think many tablets will go there too) computer (not phone) purchase will be tablets. Not iPads, tablets. Not 2011 tablets, 2020 versions of tablets.

And many of those users in 2020 will be people who never did get a PC because they were intimidated by them, but they will love their touch tablets. The group of users expands.

As for how many of us will also have laptops and Macs/PCs in our homes, quite a few will. The Post-PC era does not mean PCs go away, any more than mainframes disappeared. Laptops will continue to be used where it makes sense to use them. But more tablets will be sold to consumers.

+1

Laptops and PCs will still be used for simple things that iPad is capable of. Many times I use desktop for browsing, e-mail, music, movies, etc because of its bigger screen and OS. Tablets will be a new market, it'll reduce the use of PCs and laptops for simple things but won't replace it. Tablet is a consumption device not a production device, so it won't be replacing anything when it comes to business or professional work.

newagemac
Jun 23, 2011, 02:10 PM
Seriously? you think that ipads and Macs can take over Windows,

Most people don't even used tablets and tablets are regarded as an overpriced, unnecessary item.

Windows market has been stabilized for quite a number of years now, if Macs can barely cut in to Windows monopoly, you expect tablets to dominate, your logic is seriously flawed.

That's exactly what people said about PCs in the 80s.

GeoffShoulders
Jun 23, 2011, 02:26 PM
You know, things that tablet consumers could really care less about...


Ahem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

:-)

newagemac
Jun 23, 2011, 02:27 PM
This is just free advertising for Comscore's real products. And the chart is about people surfing websites that use Comscore web tags. It doesn't give sales, or usage of all websites. Just usage of their covered sites.



Interesting numbers.

According to Apple, their total world iOS sales ratios to date are ~ 5:3:1 (iPhone, iPodt, iPad).

Yet Comscore sees a USA web usage ratio of ~ 3:1:3.

So, assuming that USA sales ratios are similar to world ones, it doesn't seem that web usage equates to sales very well.

.

No, this just reflects the reality that it is far more enjoyable to browse the web on the iPad than the iPhone or iPod Touch so people do it more. Indeed I almost never use my iPhone for web browsing now that I have an iPad. And my Mac Mini's web browser is only used when I'm in the office doing work. Pretty much all casual browsing is now done on my iPad.

And the iPod Touch doesn't have 3G service so its obvious it would be underrepresented for web browsing as compared to say an iPhone. On the road, it's probably used more for music and games. Things that don't generally require internet service.

Carouser
Jun 23, 2011, 02:29 PM
Ahem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

:-)

It's idiomatic and an auto-antonym, professional linguists know more about this than you, get over it.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 02:30 PM
You know this how? If the first Windows 8 tablet runs as smooth as the iPad with the same battery life AND no crashing what will you say then?

I know this because a tablet is not a PC, so putting a PC operating system on it is a mistake no matter how well it runs. A new era needs new thinking. New means of input (your fingers) require new ways of handling that input. Windows is a relic of the PC era. There it works. On a tablet? A horrible mistake, but it's the same mistake Microsoft always makes which is to shoehorn everything into the Windows camp because that is how they make their money.

Geeks want a full OS on a tablet. Enjoy Windows 8. But the much larger audience of non-geek tablet users does not need, does not want, shouldn't put up with a traditional OS. They want what Apple has done which is to make the OS disappear. That is the future, and Microsoft has hitched its wagon (as usual) to the past.

So it doesn't matter how smooth Microsoft makes it. As soon as you load traditional Word with its traditional menus on a tablet, the paradigm will be smashed in the user's brains. Geeks will love it, everyone else will shake their heads at the stupid decision Microsoft made.

GeoffShoulders
Jun 23, 2011, 02:32 PM
It's idiomatic and an auto-antonym, professional linguists know more about this than you, get over it.

Ha
x

SandynJosh
Jun 23, 2011, 02:33 PM
I'm a big fan of Apple products and I had planned on purchasing an iPad tomorrow but I'm now hesitant. Amazon has the best chance of making a tablet because it could incorporate the most important advantages the iPad has: an eco system. They already have all the pieces in place and with their Prime option, they have a bunch of 'free' tv and movies available. If they can get the software/OS pieces in place and make it a seamless experience for the consumer, I think it will be an epic battle between the two companies.

I put the operative words in your post in bold italics. Let's get real here for a moment: Amazon is first and foremost a retailer. Everything they do is to forward the sale of products on their web site. Therefore they will not do anything to hamper that happening with iOS devices.

So, with an iPad or other iDevice, you will enjoy everything the Amazon tablet can do, PLUS whatever is available for the iPad.

Apple is a technology company, their goal is to maximize personal and professional sales of their products and services. They are doing this by improving the IU experience and pushing the envelope like no other company.

Android does not have this comprehensive system built in and ready to go for the consumer. I really don't think Android is going to make a lot of inroads till Google can provide an "all-in'one" ecosystem that is dead simple to use. They have all the components but it's a mess to use.

...and what will you do if Amazon adopts the Android OS for their new tablet in order to get something out sooner rather than later??

aughsum
Jun 23, 2011, 02:35 PM
Nice but watch next year it will drop to 65% according to my research


Based on my research, it will stay at 97%.

Azathoth
Jun 23, 2011, 02:35 PM
I'm sorry you view it as merely a buzz word. It's an accurate reflection of what is happening to technology, and more importantly what is going to happen in the future. My prediction is that by 2020 the majority of consumer computer purchases will be in a tablet form. I'm being conservative.

Every time we hit a new wave, the existing users of the previous wave's technology feel the way you do about the next wave. It never matters, the new wave is always bigger than the previous one as it brings in new users. This is going to be an interesting decade.

Actually it will become an increasingly boring decade with race-to-the-bottom ad-financed production values.

The only bright spot is that since typing on a tablet is a fairly sucky experience (compared to a real keyboard), at least the awful spelling, inane comments and make-your-english-teacher-cry grammar might be limited somewhat.

Now, when it comes to the original article - it's likely that it's based on something like browser IDs. There is only one Android table OS line: Honeycomb - which is only a very few of the tablets - the Galaxy Tab runs 2.2. Therefore I think the numbers are artificially low for Android tablets.

Not that I care - I have little desire for a tablet of any kind.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 02:40 PM
Actually it will become an increasingly boring decade with race-to-the-bottom ad-financed production values.

Not in the Apple camp.

The only bright spot is that since typing on a tablet is a fairly sucky experience (compared to a real keyboard), at least the awful spelling, inane comments and make-your-english-teacher-cry grammar might be limited somewhat.

Ooh, limited imagination. Just wait. You're going to find the next few years more interesting than you think.

Winni
Jun 23, 2011, 02:59 PM
What we're seeing here is an iPod situation developing. The "tablet market" is rapidly turning into the "iPad market." Given the expected sales figures that'll be out in a couple of weeks, it'll be a big iPad market that keeps getting bigger.

If Apple's rivals don't move fast they'll be trapped in the smartphone segment.

Well, people also once thought that Apple would own the smartphone market, but as we all know, Android has meanwhile surpassed them.

The key to Android's success is not that it is "better" per se (although I personally think that Android is superior to iOS in almost every aspect), the key is that everybody can use the platform to build their own phone or tablet. That is the very same recipe that made Windows - and not Mac OS - the standard computing platform.

Anyway. iOS won't keep that huge market share forever. The only way for Apple to keep that percentage would be to license iOS to the competition, and as long as Steve Jobs is in charge, that is not going to happen.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 23, 2011, 03:09 PM
Amazing. This is where you start to see the difference between some companies' claims of 'shipped' vs. 'actually sold.'

There's no real way to get all those actual numbers, but this is the closest you can get to a good guess.

To me the numbers look like something is wrong with them. They are so far out of line with market share in phones that it makes me question if any of them are valid. The tablet numbers I know are wrong and the way the data is collected is bad.
Since the data collection is garbage the results are garbage.
To me this is example of the lazy media only caring about headlines because the results do not line up at all correctly and if something looks really wrong 99% of the time it is wrong.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 03:22 PM
To me the numbers look like something is wrong with them. They are so far out of line with market share in phones that it makes me question if any of them are valid. The tablet numbers I know are wrong and the way the data is collected is bad.
Since the data collection is garbage the results are garbage.
To me this is example of the lazy media only caring about headlines because the results do not line up at all correctly and if something looks really wrong 99% of the time it is wrong.

The tablet market is not like the smartphone market.

How are the tablet numbers wrong? I know, it's hard to get one's head around the fact just how far ahead Apple is.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 03:24 PM
Well, people also once thought that Apple would own the smartphone market, but as we all know, Android has meanwhile surpassed them.

Nobody thought Apple would own the smartphone market, that's history revisionism. Apple wanted a small percent at first, and never once claimed it would dominate. The phone market is too vast.

The key to Android's success is not that it is "better" per se (although I personally think that Android is superior to iOS in almost every aspect), the key is that everybody can use the platform to build their own phone or tablet. That is the very same recipe that made Windows - and not Mac OS - the standard computing platform.

More history revisionism. What made Windows the standard computing platform was Microsoft forcing all PC manufacturers to pay them for Windows whether they used it or not, thus making it only cost effective to put Windows on a PC. You could try to get a non-Windows box, but it was hard, and the manufacturer had to pay Microsoft anyway. That's partly why Microsoft lost in court in their 1990s antitrust case.

I see no similarity in today's phone market, and thus I see no chance that Android will ever have Windows-like market share. We are comparing two entirely different types of markets and conditions.

spiderman0616
Jun 23, 2011, 03:27 PM
It's not the "product" that is putting Apple ahead, it's the whole ball of wax that the product is part of. The bigger the ball of wax, the harder any other "stand-alone product" will have at competing.

As long as Apple's competitors hold to your logic, i.e. "a refined, polished product," the further behind they will slide. By now, Apple has built a highly refined, polished ecosystem in which the iOS and the Mac OS thrive. The iCloud, Lion, and upcoming iOS5 is designed to make that ecosystem even more compelling.

And speaking of compelling, let's not forget Apple's awesome marketing capability. Apple's new iPhones and iPads will hit the market along with iCloud and Lion, so I'd expect Apple to be ratcheting up the advertising about then. And if past ads are any indicator, Apple will be making a big point of how nice their products work for the user as part of the whole ecosystem experience.

Does any other manufacturer have advertising as compelling as Apple's? Does any other manufacturer have a story to tell? To date, Apple's competitors are still trying to sell on specification, not solutions. Well, except for the RIM Playbook who have no specs to tout. RIM self-proclaims the Playbook as "The Only Professional Tablet." Yet it can't hook directly to the internet or handle email, while having the battery life of about 4 hours.

Big agree here.

I was a big Apple basher from the years 1995 to about 2010. I had been screwed over on some different projects by Macs eating my files and I really didn't enjoy using them at all. (Still don't, to be honest, but they've made a lot of improvements.) When iPods and iPhones came out, my hate just increased tenfold.

But when the iPhone 4 came out, I bought one. It was my first smartphone. I had looked at a lot of Android stuff, and just didn't find it very easy to use or a very smooth experience compared to iOS. I was chastised by all my family, friends, and co-workers, all of whom had been listening to my anti-Apple rhetoric for years. I admittedly felt like a tool owning an Apple product after all the hate mongering. When iPad 2 was announced, I bought one, imagining all the different ways it could make life easier for me. (It has, and then some.)

I've always had that feeling in the back of my head though---the feeling that I'm an imposter using Apple products when I've spoken so poorly of them over the years. And then iCloud was announced and the first thing I thought was "You made the right choice. This is the glue that brings it all together." Even the parts of iCloud that are already active are making things a LOT easier on me.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 23, 2011, 03:36 PM
The tablet market is not like the smartphone market.

How are the tablet numbers wrong? I know, it's hard to get ome's head around the fact just how far ahead Apple is.

no but the phone numbers seem out of line. This makes me question the Tablet numbers as well.

Other important information is how was the data collected. what sites did they use?
The numbers smell wrong and it is worth questioning them and do not buy them "OH LOOK AT APPLE" Something is not right about them. Data collection is were the question it does not matter what the results are from that data. It is only as good as the source and the source does not smell good.

Take for example browser market share. One site that I visit has some data collections the ydo that you can look at and it is from all the sites owned by the company. They make a note to tell you that the information is not in line with the general population as they own mostly sites that only geeks really travel to so it complete throws off the numbers with a much heavier numbers on FF and Chrome. (Safari has held steady at around 5% for over over 6 years now.)

If

aristotle
Jun 23, 2011, 03:36 PM
I Still don't own any tablet... why?
<Bunch of crap and self justification deleted.>

Based on what you posted and your signature, you do not want or need a tablet so why are you here posting in these threads?

Just move on and use whatever computing device you prefer. Find a new hobby because the trolling is getting old.

NoNothing
Jun 23, 2011, 03:45 PM
I Still don't own any tablet... why?

Saying all that, things are getting there, slowly... Windows 8 based tablet seams like it will be by far the best choice in near future, failing that, Android 'Ice Cream Sandwich' and beyond sounds good enough... We will see - there is no need to rush with toys :)

Stupidest thing to support ever on a mobile device. The sad thing if Google had grown a pair, mobile computing would have been 1-2 years ahead from where it is today with a few straggler web sites that actually need Flash. Each site loosing out on 200,000,000 iOS devices and 35,000,000->50,000,000 Android devices.

Here is hope Flash is fully non-existent on the Web in 1 year.

miamialley
Jun 23, 2011, 04:18 PM
I just don't get the consumerism of cellular phones when I can use my phone cheaply at home. It feels like reckless consumerism to spend my hard earned money on it otherwise.

Thankfully, I do not have to watch that many commercials anymore.

P-Worm

You mean a landline? I haven't had a landline in 10 years. That's pretty cheap!

Heilage
Jun 23, 2011, 04:27 PM
Not good. I would hate to see Apple with too much control over the tablet innovation.

Popeye206
Jun 23, 2011, 04:35 PM
Not good. I would hate to see Apple with too much control over the tablet innovation.

Why? They seem to be the only one getting it right?

With Apple in the lead or not, the success of Apple in this space is making the others scramble to capture their share. That will keep them innovating and it will keep Apple innovating to stay ahead.

It's all good right now. It's when the market get's bland is when it gets boring.

aristotle
Jun 23, 2011, 04:48 PM
Well, people also once thought that Apple would own the smartphone market, but as we all know, Android has meanwhile surpassed them.

The key to Android's success is not that it is "better" per se (although I personally think that Android is superior to iOS in almost every aspect), the key is that everybody can use the platform to build their own phone or tablet. That is the very same recipe that made Windows - and not Mac OS - the standard computing platform.

You could not be more wrong. The success of Android in the phone market will not be repeated in tablets. Why? Because unlike smartphones, tablets do not require a comprehensive "smart phone" plan but are either Wifi only or can make use of pay as you go data plans.

Because of this, there is no incentive for carriers to offer "free" tablets for people to use and the visibility of the other tablets in non-carrier stores is really poor.

Android succeeded in large part because carriers were able to subsidize the initial price to either 0 dollars or lat least less than the subsidized price of the iPhone. Also, people on Verizon were pretty much a captive market since the only choice was Android for smartphones until the Verizon iPhone arrived.

Without "free" with a data plan tablets you are not going to see anyone but hardcore Android fanboys buying an android tablet.

A couple more things. When the iPad competitors did arrive on the market, they cost more even as subsidized devices compared to a non-subsidized iPad, you could by a wifi only model for less money and even the 3G versions did not tie you to a commitment. The Xoom did not offer a Wifi only model.

Heilage
Jun 23, 2011, 05:06 PM
Why? They seem to be the only one getting it right?

With Apple in the lead or not, the success of Apple in this space is making the others scramble to capture their share. That will keep them innovating and it will keep Apple innovating to stay ahead.

It's all good right now. It's when the market get's bland is when it gets boring.

"Getting it right" would be a very loose term. They need to loosen up, and generally get some big sticks out of their asses. Apple with too much control destroys good things, we know that.

Yes, they sell a lot. Heck, I love my iPad, but the general attitude of Apple scares me. Well, I guess Jobs will be dead (preferably retired, I don't generally want people to die) soon, and if Ive gets a bit less pretentious, we can get back to business. :)

RKpro
Jun 23, 2011, 05:07 PM
That's interesting, RIM supposedly had 42% "smartphone" market share in Canada, yet 83% of traffic is coming from iOS.

manu chao
Jun 23, 2011, 05:16 PM
That's interesting, RIM supposedly had 42% "smartphone" market share in Canada, yet 83% of traffic is coming from iOS.
But look at the Android 'webshare' in Canada, only 8%. High market share of RIM held Android down in Canada (but less so the iPhone) and browsing on BB is just not as attractive compared to the iPhone (or Android), thus high marketshare does not translate in high 'webshare' but it helped to selectively suppress one competitor, Android (I guess people are more passionate about iPhones, compared to BB vs. Android is more whatever the carriers push and less demanding customers buy).

bpaluzzi
Jun 23, 2011, 05:17 PM
i still don't own any tablet... Why?

Simply because they are all crap at the moment and by far the worst one of the lot is exactly the ipad.

I said in this forums so many times that i would take ipad only if it is given to me free of charge just so i can flog it next day :)

it is by far the worst product apple has ever produced - people are just stupid and easily manipulated to think they need it - that is all...

Now, this all doesn't mean that i won't buy some tablet device in near future but that device has to offer much more and be much better than what is currently available on the market...

Saying all that, things are getting there, slowly... Windows 8 based tablet seams like it will be by far the best choice in near future, failing that, android 'ice cream sandwich' and beyond sounds good enough... We will see - there is no need to rush with toys :)

omg you are so smaaaarrtttttttt

swagi
Jun 23, 2011, 05:23 PM
I know this because a tablet is not a PC, so putting a PC operating system on it is a mistake no matter how well it runs. A new era needs new thinking. New means of input (your fingers) require new ways of handling that input. Windows is a relic of the PC era. There it works. On a tablet? A horrible mistake, but it's the same mistake Microsoft always makes which is to shoehorn everything into the Windows camp because that is how they make their money.

Geeks want a full OS on a tablet. Enjoy Windows 8. But the much larger audience of non-geek tablet users does not need, does not want, shouldn't put up with a traditional OS. They want what Apple has done which is to make the OS disappear. That is the future, and Microsoft has hitched its wagon (as usual) to the past.

So it doesn't matter how smooth Microsoft makes it. As soon as you load traditional Word with its traditional menus on a tablet, the paradigm will be smashed in the user's brains. Geeks will love it, everyone else will shake their heads at the stupid decision Microsoft made.

Just for christ's sake - Why is a tablet not a personal computing device? Why is a tablet POST PC? I don't get the meaning of this buzz-word.

Oh, and what you really should do, please do me a favor and do some internet searches on future Office revisions. With the Metro UI Office will be a charm on Windows8 based tablets.

Aaaah, I forgot. If we believe *LTD* then Excel will suck on a tablet. Meanwhile the *revolutionary* and *magical* Numbers is perfectly suited for the iPad.

You see the logical holes in your argument?

Disclaimer: I am personally not interested in the tablet market. If I wanted to surf the web in the restroom I'd use my Android phone. If I want to game I use my console. So definitely no need for a tablet.

aristotle
Jun 23, 2011, 05:47 PM
Just for christ's sake - Why is a tablet not a personal computing device? Why is a tablet POST PC? I don't get the meaning of this buzz-word.

Oh, and what you really should do, please do me a favor and do some internet searches on future Office revisions. With the Metro UI Office will be a charm on Windows8 based tablets.

You find a UI based on street signs from Europe to be an intuitive metaphor for a desktop or tablet UI? Really? MSFT absolutely ruined MS Office with the ribbon interface which resulted in functions being hidden behind tabs with names unrelated to the function because they ran out of tabs to group it under. Adding Metro to Office would make it worse, not better.

Aaaah, I forgot. If we believe *LTD* then Excel will suck on a tablet. Meanwhile the *revolutionary* and *magical* Numbers is perfectly suited for the iPad.

Have you seen the UI of Numbers for the iPad? It is finger friendly. I do not have confidence in MSFT to deliver Excel in a finger friendly UI because they have been up to now tooting the "stylus/ink" horn.

You see the logical holes in your argument?

I would ask the same question.

Disclaimer: I am personally not interested in the tablet market. If I wanted to surf the web in the restroom I'd use my Android phone. If I want to game I use my console. So definitely no need for a tablet.
If you are not interested in tablets then why are you in this thread? For the lulz? How would you use a console to play games on a tour bus, on a train, plain or cab? Would you lug your console with you to play it in a hotel room?

Mr Fusion
Jun 23, 2011, 06:10 PM
Up until last week I had never played around with a different tablet than iPad. I was in Best Buy and played with the Motorola Xoom. Since it can do Flash, I was curious how it would perform.

Honestly, it did great! I was able to use my company's flash-applet webpage very easily (something that's been keeping me from replacing my laptop with an iPad) and I streamed 1080p .flv YouTube videos in the browser full-screen and it looked on-par with my year old Mac Mini at home.

Perhaps it's time to set up a "Special Event" for iOS Flash support as the newest rehashed Apple idea.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 23, 2011, 06:14 PM
That's interesting, RIM supposedly had 42% "smartphone" market share in Canada, yet 83% of traffic is coming from iOS.

Rim browsers sucks. Also a lot of people on RIM use 3rd party browsers like Bolt or Opera and if those are in use they are not going to be pick up as a blackberry. It will be picked up as a computer.

RIM storm and Touch are the best blackberry to surf the web on and even then not as good as iOS.

Android, iOS and WP7 all have much MUCH better browsers and phone design for surfing the web.

Carouser
Jun 23, 2011, 06:15 PM
Honestly, it did great! I was able to use my company's flash-applet webpage very easily (something that's been keeping me from replacing my laptop with an iPad) and I streamed 1080p .flv YouTube videos in the browser full-screen and it looked on-par with my year old Mac Mini at home.

Giant LOL at any company using a Flash webpage in 2011.

*LTD*
Jun 23, 2011, 06:31 PM
Just for christ's sake - Why is a tablet not a personal computing device? Why is a tablet POST PC? I don't get the meaning of this buzz-word.

Look at the industry pre-iPhone. Look at it today. Post-PC. The iPad was the necessary big push into the environment that came into being with the release of the iPhone.


Oh, and what you really should do, please do me a favor and do some internet searches on future Office revisions. With the Metro UI Office will be a charm on Windows8 based tablets.


MS must first achieve relevance in the mind of consumers to even achieve an average competitive state in the mobile space. So far consumers have demonstrated that this hasn't happened.


Aaaah, I forgot. If we believe *LTD* then Excel will suck on a tablet. Meanwhile the *revolutionary* and *magical* Numbers is perfectly suited for the iPad.


Of course it's perfectly suited for the iPad. Because it was designed *for* the iPad. Sinofsky and crew just don't get this, as is apparent from the latest All Things Digital video. MS is doing the same thing they've done all along: trying to shoehorn a full OS onto a tablet. Except this time they think they can hide all that colossal, inelegant, poorly-conceived mess behind an oddball UI layer.

It's not only a bad idea in terms of usability, but it's also monumentally lazy. And let's face it, this has been par for the course at MS for years now: how can we take the status quo we're used to doing and just bolt it on to all the new stuff out there so we can be relevant? Folly.


Disclaimer: I am personally not interested in the tablet market. If I wanted to surf the web in the restroom I'd use my Android phone. If I want to game I use my console. So definitely no need for a tablet.

Evolution will happen without your interest, then.

manu chao
Jun 23, 2011, 07:36 PM
Just for christ's sake - Why is a tablet not a personal computing device? Why is a tablet POST PC? I don't get the meaning of this buzz-word.
Why is a PC not a pocket or tabletop calculator? Why is a PC not a mainframe?

Unless you make clear what you consider sensible definitions of various electronic products (or why you disagree with a definition made by somebody else), you criticise via an unspoken implications which makes it impossible to answer (or counter) your arguments.

I mean, why is a smartphone not a PC? Why is a PDA not a PC?

Define what is a PC and what is not a PC and why so.

KingCrimson
Jun 23, 2011, 07:51 PM
Define what is a PC and what is not a PC and why so.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F077869-0042%2C_Jugend-Computerschule_mit_IBM-PC.jpg

iphonepiephone
Jun 23, 2011, 08:00 PM
Well of course - are you actually surprised? :)

KingCrimson
Jun 23, 2011, 08:02 PM
Hey If I need anything less then a huge cart to transport my PC, then it aint a PC.:D:D:D

aughsum
Jun 23, 2011, 08:03 PM
The iPads a great complimentary device but IMO its still got some way to go before it can realistically be an average users only computer. If your just talking about sales then 2020 sounds about right but how many would still have a laptop/computer as well? Plus the fact that i have had my iMac for nearly 4 years now. Will Apple support iPads for longer than they do iPhones? Or are consumers expected to buy a new one every 2 years?

I disagree.

Having been in it/sys administration for ~13 years, being familiar with the usage habits of thousands of users, and tracking tech-related ongoings for as long as i can remember, I can confidently say that 95% of users can get by with just an iPad. There will be rare cases where certain people need a software application that isn't available on the iPad (yet), but they represent a very, very, very small minority of average users. I made the switch myself and life has never been better; a lot of the "power-user" things I used to do were completely useless - tailored my usage habits to the strengths of the iPad.

RWinOR
Jun 23, 2011, 08:24 PM
To me the numbers look like something is wrong with them. They are so far out of line with market share in phones that it makes me question if any of them are valid. The tablet numbers I know are wrong and the way the data is collected is bad.
Since the data collection is garbage the results are garbage.
To me this is example of the lazy media only caring about headlines because the results do not line up at all correctly and if something looks really wrong 99% of the time it is wrong.

You are making the assumption that everyone who buys a smart phone will want to browse the web. The stats show that most people buying Androids are only interested in the touch screen and could care less about Flash, or surfing the web. The only Fandroids interested in flash and surfing are the ones who campout in here, telling us how important it is and how dumb Apple is for not having it. The truth is now out iOS Rules! Deal with it.

Mr Fusion
Jun 23, 2011, 08:39 PM
Giant LOL at any company using a Flash webpage in 2011.
What`s more ridiculous is they have NO PLANS to switch to a different technology at present time. To me it`s a microcosm of just how much opportunity there is out there in the world of software.

:apple:

KingCrimson
Jun 23, 2011, 08:40 PM
I disagree.

Having been in it/sys administration for ~13 years, being familiar with the usage habits of thousands of users, and tracking tech-related ongoings for as long as i can remember, I can confidently say that 95% of users can get by with just an iPad. There will be rare cases where certain people need a software application that isn't available on the iPad (yet), but they represent a very, very, very small minority of average users. I made the switch myself and life has never been better; a lot of the "power-user" things I used to do were completely useless - tailored my usage habits to the strengths of the iPad.

being a "power-user" isn't just using pro-style apps.

* large wide-screen displays
* media ports(SD card slots, etc..)
* dual-monitor setup
* multiple external hard drives
* ergonomic desk PC setup
* multi-core processor for being able to play high-end games at high FPS

The myth is the iPad has us in a "post-PC" era when in fact Macs are selling more then ever.

aughsum
Jun 23, 2011, 08:54 PM
being a "power-user" isn't just using pro-style apps.

* large wide-screen displays
* media ports(SD card slots, etc..)
* dual-monitor setup
* multiple external hard drives
* ergonomic desk PC setup
* multi-core processor for being able to play high-end games at high FPS

The myth is the iPad has us in a "post-PC" era when in fact Macs are selling more then ever.

*why, when you can accomplish the same things on a small, portable display?
*outdated, upload photos directly to cloud. (sans high-end photographers who need to edit/touchup photos, part of aformentioned minority)
*see bullet-point #1
*why? Store files in cloud (I understand that nerds need to archive their tbs of pron, they're in aforementioned minority)
*no need for a pc desk - frees up floor-space, uses less electricity
*game on a console, only geeks game on pcs.

The iMac is selling better than ever - you're going to start seeing a lot more iOS/tablet-esque features in iMacs, the two lines will slowly converge into one (iPad).

aughsum
Jun 23, 2011, 08:57 PM
You are making the assumption that everyone who buys a smart phone will want to browse the web. The stats show that most people buying Androids are only interested in the touch screen and could care less about Flash, or surfing the web. The only Fandroids interested in flash and surfing are the ones who campout in here, telling us how important it is and how dumb Apple is for not having it. The truth is now out iOS Rules! Deal with it.

It's all about usability.

maclaptop
Jun 23, 2011, 09:01 PM
if the iPad only had flash.
(sarcasm)

It WOULD DEFINITELY be 100% if it featured Flash
(No Sarcasm, Just Fact).

Yet I have no desire for Uncle Steve to feel anything less than the Supreme Being HE thinks he is.

aughsum
Jun 23, 2011, 09:04 PM
It WOULD DEFINITELY be 100% if it featured Flash
(No Sarcasm, Just Fact).

Yet I have no desire for Uncle Steve to feel anything less than the Supreme Being HE thinks he is.

Two years - no flash complaints here.

Edit: I guess it's more like a year and a half.

RWinOR
Jun 23, 2011, 09:27 PM
It's all about usability.

Indeed and so much more.

Apple got it right. They are the standard all others are chasing.

NebulaClash
Jun 23, 2011, 09:41 PM
Just for christ's sake - Why is a tablet not a personal computing device? Why is a tablet POST PC? I don't get the meaning of this buzz-word.

Oh, and what you really should do, please do me a favor and do some internet searches on future Office revisions. With the Metro UI Office will be a charm on Windows8 based tablets.

Aaaah, I forgot. If we believe *LTD* then Excel will suck on a tablet. Meanwhile the *revolutionary* and *magical* Numbers is perfectly suited for the iPad.

You see the logical holes in your argument?

For Christ's sake? I didn't realize this religious war was turning into, uh, a religious war. :)

OK, I'll try to explain what I mean. Why is an iPad a Post-PC device while still being a computer? PC in this context means a box and keyboard and mouse and monitor. That's the typical setup we are used to for the last thirty years, more or less the lifespan of the PC era. Laptops are merely compressed versions of the same thing since they preserve the keyboard and a mouse-like abstraction for pointing and the screen is separate from the keyboard.

The iPad gets rid of the abstractions. You don't have a device between your fingers and the screen. The mouse is gone and you just naturally use your fingers. They physical keyboard is not needed nearly as much as you'd think, so you get a software keyboard only when needed. The OS is in the background, so you don't have to be confronted with OS ideas such as folders and files. You just use an app, and the app handles the data.

In short, the iPad drops almost everything we think of when we think of a PC. It's a new paradigm.

That's why Microsoft bolting on new UIs to old code bases won't work. It's too jarring, for Microsoft being Microsoft, the new UI will only appear some of the time, but at other times you'll be back in the old Word or Excel menus and the effect will be jarring as you try to use your fingers to manipulate items that were meant to be moused and clicked.

Numbers, in contrast, was rewritten from the ground up to be finger friendly, and it works in the new way. You never, ever, ever see the old way. It's all new. Not just a UI bolted on.

Your final comment about the use or lack thereof of tablets for you indicates your ignorance of what tablets can do that you cannot easily do with other devices. Remain in ignorance if you wish, but the world is going to pass you by. Nobody who experiences what touch UIs can do will ever be wholly satisfied with an abstracted mouse experience again. It just gets in your way.

KingCrimson
Jun 23, 2011, 09:44 PM
*why, when you can accomplish the same things on a small, portable display?
*outdated, upload photos directly to cloud. (sans high-end photographers who need to edit/touchup photos, part of aformentioned minority)
*see bullet-point #1
*why? Store files in cloud (I understand that nerds need to archive their tbs of pron, they're in aforementioned minority)
*no need for a pc desk - frees up floor-space, uses less electricity
*game on a console, only geeks game on pcs.

The iMac is selling better than ever - you're going to start seeing a lot more iOS/tablet-esque features in iMacs, the two lines will slowly converge into one (iPad).

You're getting as bad as *LTD*. Nice trolling.

aughsum
Jun 23, 2011, 09:52 PM
You're getting as bad as *LTD*. Nice trolling.

Nice comeback.

Edit: just read a couple of LTDs posts - he knows what he's talking about, you're confusing trolling for knowing about the topic at hand.

twoodcc
Jun 23, 2011, 10:01 PM
great for apple! and that iPhone number will go up after iPhone 5 is released

RawBert
Jun 24, 2011, 12:51 AM
You are making the assumption that everyone who buys a smart phone will want to browse the web. The stats show that most people buying Androids are only interested in the touch screen and could care less about Flash, or surfing the web. The only Fandroids interested in flash and surfing are the ones who campout in here, telling us how important it is and how dumb Apple is for not having it. The truth is now out iOS Rules! Deal with it.
Awesome post!!! :cool:

haruhiko
Jun 24, 2011, 01:01 AM
I doubt other tablets will ever catch up. Apple has pioneered the tablet market and even now other companies are still releasing tablets.

This is similar to PC vs Mac

PC had a booming start and look now, 90% are PC users. the other 10% are "other" users.

As long as Apple continues to update ipad, like windows 95, 98 , ME, xp, vista , 7 from microsoft, we shouldn't be surprised over such a large part of the marketshare.
Very nice point.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 24, 2011, 01:29 AM
You are making the assumption that everyone who buys a smart phone will want to browse the web. The stats show that most people buying Androids are only interested in the touch screen and could care less about Flash, or surfing the web. The only Fandroids interested in flash and surfing are the ones who campout in here, telling us how important it is and how dumb Apple is for not having it. The truth is now out iOS Rules! Deal with it.


You know what is the saddest part is you believe that crap.

I have yet to meet an android user who does not surf on there phone as much as an iPhone user. They fall in the range of normal. I also know iPhone users who never really surf the web.

Simple fact is is the metrics used to collect the data are questionable at best. If it is from Apple fan sites oh god yes they are going to be off balance.
You argument to defend apple is on the same level as if I mean the argument "iPhones are for drulling idiots who can not use any real techology." We both know that is not true.
I just find it funny when some one throws a wrench in the lets worship Apple you get all defenses and points out a huge questionable part of it you jump up and down crying about it. That to me tells me that you know I have a point since you turned into insults.

singlestick
Jun 24, 2011, 01:42 AM
There seems to be a huge potential demand for a good Android or Windows tablet. One day someone will get it right. But for now, they keep stumbling, and Apple is beating them up and taking their lunch money.

Even though tablets are still a small part of the total ... device... market, notebook sales have declined, competing tablet sales are weak, and various companies have fired executives because they are unable to come up with strategies to blunt Apple's success.

The much rumored upcoming Amazon tablet might shake things up, if it is more than a phantom product, especially if the price is competitive.

b0blndsy
Jun 24, 2011, 01:56 AM
Its a great news for apple to be proud of. I read few members in the forum predicting it could be 100% but I'd rather say 100% is only possible when you have no competitor at all, there is a small fraction of customers with different choices and preferences.

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 03:17 AM
You know what is the saddest part is you believe that crap.

I have yet to meet an android user who does not surf on there phone as much as an iPhone user. They fall in the range of normal. I also know iPhone users who never really surf the web.

Simple fact is is the metrics used to collect the data are questionable at best. If it is from Apple fan sites oh god yes they are going to be off balance.
You argument to defend apple is on the same level as if I mean the argument "iPhones are for drulling idiots who can not use any real techology." We both know that is not true.
I just find it funny when some one throws a wrench in the lets worship Apple you get all defenses and points out a huge questionable part of it you jump up and down crying about it. That to me tells me that you know I have a point since you turned into insults.

Most of the android users I know are full blown geeks, some are regular people who like their os, some are braindead and were sold an android phone because it was free after rebate.. the vast majority of smartphone users that I know of have iPhones.

Every argument will have a different metric, said metrics will be built on different perspectives, see above, but this data appears to be unbiased, with a fairly accurate looking means of collection and it fits in with the stereotypes - a few people who love android and use it for everything, a few people who think it's cool they have a smartphone but don't really use it for surfing the web, preferring to reserve that for their home pcs, and a few people who don't know why e salesperson sent them home with that phone, but it was free and let's them check the emails so who cares vs a mobile platform with the best mobile Internet usability.

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 03:30 AM
Its a great news for apple to be proud of. I read few members in the forum predicting it could be 100% but I'd rather say 100% is only possible when you have no competitor at all, there is a small fraction of customers with different choices and preferences.

It will never reach 100% but it doesn't need to - it's iPod 2.0, competitors will try for a few years, then set their sights on whatever wheel apple reinvents next (my money is on home entertainment, television/Atv/game console aio)

AAPLaday
Jun 24, 2011, 03:31 AM
I disagree.

Having been in it/sys administration for ~13 years, being familiar with the usage habits of thousands of users, and tracking tech-related ongoings for as long as i can remember, I can confidently say that 95% of users can get by with just an iPad. There will be rare cases where certain people need a software application that isn't available on the iPad (yet), but they represent a very, very, very small minority of average users. I made the switch myself and life has never been better; a lot of the "power-user" things I used to do were completely useless - tailored my usage habits to the strengths of the iPad.

Depends what you do and how you work i guess. Even for casual use i found that constantly switching between apps is more cumbersome than say if i had a MBA instead. Although im sure that the majority of users could get by on a netbook or Chromebook too.

Dont get me wrong i do like the device. I just find that it takes more steps to do the things that i want on one.

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 03:51 AM
Depends what you do and how you work i guess. Even for casual use i found that constantly switching between apps is more cumbersome than say if i had a MBA instead. Although im sure that the majority of users could get by on a netbook or Chromebook too.

Dont get me wrong i do like the device. I just find that it takes more steps to do the things that i want on one.

My views are just the opposite. Once a hardcore multitasker, I've found that ios's state-save multitasking has been improving my ability to focus on the things I need to use a computer for - there's a good PBS documentary on multitasking on Netflix - everyone thinks they're a great multitasker, but in reality, it degrades results 100% of the time. Never again.

AAPLaday
Jun 24, 2011, 04:04 AM
My views are just the opposite. Once a hardcore multitasker, I've found that ios's state-save multitasking has been improving my ability to focus on the things I need to use a computer for - there's a good PBS documentary on multitasking on Netflix - everyone thinks they're great multitasker, but in reality, it degrades results 100% of the time. Never again.

Then we will have to agree to disagree ;)

At the moment im replying to you on here whilst adding HDR effects to a photo i took the other day, importing more pics from my PS camera, selecting a few tracks to play in iTunes , reading my facebook and twitter updates and updating my calendar. I have 17 tabs open in Safari, whilst keeping an eye on wimbledon. All on one screen. Without ever having to switch screens or have an app out of view. This is what i miss on the iPad

Azathoth
Jun 24, 2011, 04:08 AM
You could not be more wrong. The success of Android in the phone market will not be repeated in tablets. Why? Because unlike smartphones, tablets do not require a comprehensive "smart phone" plan but are either Wifi only or can make use of pay as you go data plans.


All that is based on the way the telecomms market is controlled by the carriers in the USA.

In the RoW there is significant liberalisation and many don't have this "data and voice plans" BS - with the user having considerable freedom in choice of handset irrespective of carrier.

swagi
Jun 24, 2011, 04:20 AM
For Christ's sake? I didn't realize this religious war was turning into, uh, a religious war. :)

OK, I'll try to explain what I mean. Why is an iPad a Post-PC device while still being a computer? PC in this context means a box and keyboard and mouse and monitor. That's the typical setup we are used to for the last thirty years, more or less the lifespan of the PC era. Laptops are merely compressed versions of the same thing since they preserve the keyboard and a mouse-like abstraction for pointing and the screen is separate from the keyboard.

The iPad gets rid of the abstractions. You don't have a device between your fingers and the screen. The mouse is gone and you just naturally use your fingers. They physical keyboard is not needed nearly as much as you'd think, so you get a software keyboard only when needed. The OS is in the background, so you don't have to be confronted with OS ideas such as folders and files. You just use an app, and the app handles the data.

In short, the iPad drops almost everything we think of when we think of a PC. It's a new paradigm.

That's why Microsoft bolting on new UIs to old code bases won't work. It's too jarring, for Microsoft being Microsoft, the new UI will only appear some of the time, but at other times you'll be back in the old Word or Excel menus and the effect will be jarring as you try to use your fingers to manipulate items that were meant to be moused and clicked.

Numbers, in contrast, was rewritten from the ground up to be finger friendly, and it works in the new way. You never, ever, ever see the old way. It's all new. Not just a UI bolted on.

Your final comment about the use or lack thereof of tablets for you indicates your ignorance of what tablets can do that you cannot easily do with other devices. Remain in ignorance if you wish, but the world is going to pass you by. Nobody who experiences what touch UIs can do will ever be wholly satisfied with an abstracted mouse experience again. It just gets in your way.

Sorry for the religious idiom - I was just out of english idioms to show my disrespect for the buzz-term postPC era. Maybe I should've said Holy Guacamole, Batman. :D

Fine for you, if you feel confident about a touch-based UI. Not having used one I can assure you, that my limited hands-on experience with mobile phones (including several iPhone and Android-based phones) is far from perfect. Basically I found these to be nothing but consumption devices - and not production devices. For consumption they may be fine.

Love it or hate it - I had a hard time learning keyboard shortcuts, but is was well worth it. Therefore I may agree with you, that the mouse is sometimes 'in the way', I sometimes also switch to using a Wacom tablet, but...I personally feel the need for a physical keyboard. Otherwise you should answer me the question, if simple tasks like switching font styles or quick marking of text is somehow easily accessible on a tablet (and at least on par with keyboard shortcuts).

Can I finally use keyboard shortcuts on a tablet? AFAIR the iPhone keyboard and the Android keyboard just recognize one finger at a time.

So that's it. A tablet is a mobile consumption device. And me - I don't need more mobile consumption currently.

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 04:44 AM
Sorry for the religious idiom - I was just out of english idioms to show my disrespect for the buzz-term postPC era. Maybe I should've said Holy Guacamole, Batman. :D

Fine for you, if you feel confident about a touch-based UI. Not having used one I can assure you, that my limited hands-on experience with mobile phones (including several iPhone and Android-based phones) is far from perfect. Basically I found these to be nothing but consumption devices - and not production devices. For consumption they may be fine.

Love it or hate it - I had a hard time learning keyboard shortcuts, but is was well worth it. Therefore I may agree with you, that the mouse is sometimes 'in the way', I sometimes also switch to using a Wacom tablet, but...I personally feel the need for a physical keyboard. Otherwise you should answer me the question, if simple tasks like switching font styles or quick marking of text is somehow easily accessible on a tablet (and at least on par with keyboard shortcuts).

Can I finally use keyboard shortcuts on a tablet? AFAIR the iPhone keyboard and the Android keyboard just recognize one finger at a time.

So that's it. A tablet is a mobile consumption device. And me - I don't need more mobile consumption currently.

So.. You're criticizing something that you have no experience with?

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 04:46 AM
Then we will have to agree to disagree ;)

At the moment im replying to you on here whilst adding HDR effects to a photo i took the other day, importing more pics from my PS camera, selecting a few tracks to play in iTunes , reading my facebook and twitter updates and updating my calendar. I have 17 tabs open in Safari, whilst keeping an eye on wimbledon. All on one screen. Without ever having to switch screens or have an app out of view. This is what i miss on the iPad

I know what you mean, I used to be the same way.

In reality, you're only doing two of those simultaneously, if you count keeping an eye on Wimbledon as one.

haruhiko
Jun 24, 2011, 04:47 AM
AFAIR the iPhone keyboard and the Android keyboard just recognize one finger at a time.

Absolutely fake information regarding the iPad part.

swagi
Jun 24, 2011, 05:26 AM
So.. You're criticizing something that you have no experience with?

Yap.

Absolutely fake information regarding the iPad part.

Fine. Enlighten me. So basically you can easily mark text using Shift+Option+Cursor key? You copy it, cut it, paste it, bold it, underline it and all the other stuff with keyboard shortcuts? You can easily undo and redo? All with the same speed of a physical keyboard?

Great - then I maybe should give this stuff a try. Any recommendations for a WYSIWYG-web editor on the iPad?

swagi
Jun 24, 2011, 05:33 AM
You could not be more wrong. The success of Android in the phone market will not be repeated in tablets. Why? Because unlike smartphones, tablets do not require a comprehensive "smart phone" plan but are either Wifi only or can make use of pay as you go data plans.


Aaaah - I see. So this must be fake: Official XOOM-offer T-mobile (http://www.t-mobile.de/motorola-xoom/0,22226,25609-_,00.html)

Oh - and in the fineprint it says that you receive another contract for your smartphone XYZ - so if your contract is about to expire, keep your phone and get a XOOM. ;)

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 05:34 AM
Yap.



Fine. Enlighten me. So basically you can easily mark text using Shift+Option+Cursor key? You copy it, cut it, paste it, bold it, underline it and all the other stuff with keyboard shortcuts? You can easily undo and redo? All with the same speed of a physical keyboard?

Great - then I maybe should give this stuff a try. Any recommendations for a WYSIWYG-web editor on the iPad?

iPads aren't for web designers.

cat3600
Jun 24, 2011, 07:16 AM
Hey, there's always next year.

It's the motto of our Toronto Maple Leafs, where mediocrity is served for breakfast, lunch, and playoffs.

It's particularly fitting here.

Hahaha!! I'm from Toronto & I'm tired of all the beer money I've spent watching them to a dissapiontment:(

Actually after what happened in Vancouver I wonder if we will ever get the cup!

RWinOR
Jun 24, 2011, 08:09 AM
You know what is the saddest part is you believe that crap.

I have yet to meet an android user who does not surf on there phone as much as an iPhone user. They fall in the range of normal. I also know iPhone users who never really surf the web.

Simple fact is is the metrics used to collect the data are questionable at best. If it is from Apple fan sites oh god yes they are going to be off balance.
You argument to defend apple is on the same level as if I mean the argument "iPhones are for drulling idiots who can not use any real techology." We both know that is not true.
I just find it funny when some one throws a wrench in the lets worship Apple you get all defenses and points out a huge questionable part of it you jump up and down crying about it. That to me tells me that you know I have a point since you turned into insults.

Well, now you have met one.

I have a Blackberry for work, hate using it to surf the web. It is difficult and the screen is way to small.

I have an Android HTC Evo for a personal phone. (My carrier does not supply IPhones). I wanted the Iphone experience so this was as close as I could get with my carrier. I have tried surfing with it. It sucks the big one. The web pages load oddly, difficult to put passwords in etc. I do not use it anymore for surfing.

I have both an IPod touch and IPad these work great for surfing. No problems whatsoever. Web pages load with no issues. Now I do sometimes turn on my Evo hotspot so I can use my iOS device to surf, when I am somewhere without wifi.

The truth is iOS is a fun user experience for surfing and the entire infrastructure. In my personal experience all others pale by comparison.

Fuchal
Jun 24, 2011, 08:13 AM
iPads aren't for web designers.

WYSIWYG web editors aren't for web designers.

NebulaClash
Jun 24, 2011, 08:21 AM
Sorry for the religious idiom - I was just out of english idioms to show my disrespect for the buzz-term postPC era. Maybe I should've said Holy Guacamole, Batman. :D

Fine for you, if you feel confident about a touch-based UI. Not having used one I can assure you, that my limited hands-on experience with mobile phones (including several iPhone and Android-based phones) is far from perfect. Basically I found these to be nothing but consumption devices - and not production devices. For consumption they may be fine.

Love it or hate it - I had a hard time learning keyboard shortcuts, but is was well worth it. Therefore I may agree with you, that the mouse is sometimes 'in the way', I sometimes also switch to using a Wacom tablet, but...I personally feel the need for a physical keyboard. Otherwise you should answer me the question, if simple tasks like switching font styles or quick marking of text is somehow easily accessible on a tablet (and at least on par with keyboard shortcuts).

Can I finally use keyboard shortcuts on a tablet? AFAIR the iPhone keyboard and the Android keyboard just recognize one finger at a time.

So that's it. A tablet is a mobile consumption device. And me - I don't need more mobile consumption currently.

Simple tasks like switching font styles or quick marking of text is surprising easy with Pages or Numbers. Apple did a great job making these tasks touch friendly. But as for doing it in all apps, no, not yet.

Keyboard shortcuts? There are some built-in Apple ones, such as holding a key down until a pop-up window appears with accented variations. So I think it will be possible to do a much more like that over time as the demand is there.

Are tablets more for consumption than production? Yes.

Are PCs more for consumption than production? Yes.

Frankly, the vast majority of computer use by most people is consumption. There is a subset of users who are heavy producers, and there is a subset of users who are heavy consumers, and some in between. Now I grant you, it is easier to produce with a keyboard and mouse -- because that is what we have been trained to do! I guarantee you the first time most people were confronted with a mouse they were thinking how much easier it is to use a keyboard . . .

So when I posit the future, I'm thinking we're going to have much better ways of inputting data on tablets. Right now, for me, the software keyboard is just fine for emails and Web forms, but not that good for long form documents. For those I switch to my laptop. Same thing for those times when I need multiple windows open at once.

But the average iPad user is not me, not you, not anyone who learned keyboard shortcuts :) The average iPad user is going to be consumer first, producer a little bit. But the methods of producing will change and grow as companies learn the ins and outs of what multitouch can do. Look at Garage Band and tell me that was the first thing you thought of when you thought about touch screens . . .

For that matter, look at how science fiction used touch screens in Star Trek TNG and later, and in Minority Report, etc. Developers have seen those movies too and they won't stop until they can give us apps that are rich in touch. Make it so, Number One.

stevensr123
Jun 24, 2011, 08:25 AM
It will never reach 100% but it doesn't need to - it's iPod 2.0, competitors will try for a few years, then set their sights on whatever wheel apple reinvents next (my money is on home entertainment, television/Atv/game console aio)

the tablet market will never me like the mp3 market.

there is already a MASSIVE fan base for android and everything android. this alone will secure future competition. you also sound like you would want it to be 2.0 **** me!!!

competition will do nothing but good for apple and it's consumers.

in a year or so various manufactures such as htc and samsung will release new versions and will quickly catch up to apple and in many way, overtake apple. and thus it will basically be like the mobile market it at the moment.

Les Kern
Jun 24, 2011, 08:31 AM
I have noticed that electronic store flyers advertise Windows and Android tablets but do not have iPads in either the tablet or Apple sections of the flyer. Always thought this was odd. Maybe it is due to these iPad alternatives not moving off the shelf as fast as initially expected.

Margins are higher on the substandard tabs. The more they unload the more the company makes. It's not like they are trying to promote whats BEST for people.

RWinOR
Jun 24, 2011, 08:41 AM
the tablet market will never me like the mp3 market.

there is already a MASSIVE fan base for android and everything android. this alone will secure future competition. you also sound like you would want it to be 2.0 **** me!!!

competition will do nothing but good for apple and it's consumers.

in a year or so various manufactures such as htc and samsung will release new versions and will quickly catch up to apple and in many way, overtake apple. and thus it will basically be like the mobile market it at the moment.

You know this Android argument is getting very tiresome. The Android phone makers had the same amount of time to develop a tablet. (Many of you are calling it nothing but a large format Ipod) They choose not to. Apple developed this. Now you all say competition is great and we should embrace the copy cats, who cannot innovate on there own but must follow. This following is good for Apple and keeps them on there toes. I say Bull.

If competition is so good and Apple is so evil, lets see what the next technology leap is and who it comes from... Android or Apple.

No Company pushed Apple to develop the Ipad. They created the market with this device. Others are trying to catch up.

As far as a Massive "Fan" base I strongly disagree. I would say there is a Massive "User" base. but simply having someone hand you an Android phone because it is cheaper, or it is all you can get with you carrier, does by no stretch of the imagination make you a fan.

NebulaClash
Jun 24, 2011, 09:20 AM
There is a geek base of enthusiastic Android supporters, and geeks dominate the discussion on Web boards, so it may seem as if there is massive general demand for Android, but that doesn't appear to be the case. If there was such a demand for Android, we'd see massive sales of Android tablets now. We don't. The only place Android does well is in phones, and that's due to being available more than anything else. People go to phone store, they take what's there. If Motorola, Samsung, HTC suddenly switched to Windows Phone OS, people would suddenly start using Windows Phone and Android share would plummet.

Geeks always assume the world thinks like them. It doesn't.

singlestick
Jun 24, 2011, 09:33 AM
You know this Android argument is getting very tiresome. The Android phone makers had the same amount of time to develop a tablet. (Many of you are calling it nothing but a large format Ipod) They choose not to. Apple developed this. Now you all say competition is great and we should embrace the copy cats, who cannot innovate on there own but must follow. This following is good for Apple and keeps them on there toes. I say Bull.

If competition is so good and Apple is so evil, lets see what the next technology leap is and who it comes from... Android or Apple.

No Company pushed Apple to develop the Ipad. They created the market with this device. Others are trying to catch up.

As far as a Massive "Fan" base I strongly disagree. I would say there is a Massive "User" base. but simply having someone hand you an Android phone because it is cheaper, or it is all you can get with you carrier, does by no stretch of the imagination make you a fan.

The whole idea of people being fans is massively overrated. One of my bosses is a huge Android fan boy. Huge. And one of the IT guys in the office is a huge Android fanboy, to the point that he even bragged about how he has never even touched an iPad, as though he has to keep himself pure.

And yet both of these guys have a big blind spot about how the majority of people use technology and what they look for.

The Blackberry was once hugely popular, to the extent that people referred to them as The Crackberry. There are folks who still prefer the device, because of its reliability, damage resistance, battery life and other features. And yet formerly devoted users have moved on to iPhones and Android phones without a backward glance, leaving RIM fighting for its survival. Similarly, Nokia, another former leader in the market, is on the ropes.

Fanboys live in an alternate universe. The majority of people just want what works. They have no loyalty to any device or technology or philosophy (open vs closed systems).

The distinction between massive fan base and massive user base is spot on. There are large numbers of Android phone users. This makes for a huge potential market for a competing tablet device. But the Android people have to deliver, and so far, they have massively failed to do so.

And yeah, they are all competing with desktops and laptops, though less so with notebooks. This is only anecdotal, but I am a big commuter. While I see people with laptops on the train, I very rarely see anyone with a notebook. And people that I talk to about them tend to agree that notebooks are too underpowered to be generally useful. Which makes it all the more odd that some posters here offer notebooks as iPad alternatives.

kdarling
Jun 24, 2011, 09:38 AM
No, this just reflects the reality that it is far more enjoyable to browse the web on the iPad than the iPhone or iPod Touch so people do it more.

Yep, exactly my point. These figures only reflect who browses the Comscore associated websites, not device sales.

There seems to be a huge potential demand for a good Android or Windows tablet.

There is that, but even larger seems to be the demand for a very inexpensive (but smooth) tablet of any OS type. Most people don't care what it is, as long as they can afford it, and it works well.

For that matter, there seems to be a lot of people buying tablets just because it's "the thing to do", and then wondering what to do with them :)

The much rumored upcoming Amazon tablet might shake things up, if it is more than a phantom product, especially if the price is competitive.

And especially because most tablet users are consumers, not producers. I know that I buy everything from books to auto parts to electronics to MP3 selections from Amazon.

For that matter, look at how science fiction used touch screens in Star Trek TNG and later, and in Minority Report, etc. Developers have seen those movies too and they won't stop until they can give us apps that are rich in touch. Make it so, Number One.

Ha! Don't get me started :)

ST:TNG touch panels were a horrible idea on an armed ship, where the crew often gets tossed from side to side and grab onto the consoles to stay upright. Nothing like accidentally opening airlocks or firing photon torpedoes!

As for Minority Report, Tom Cruise had to take breaks every five minutes because his arms got so tired doing the takes for hand motions in the air. And he was a young guy, too.

Touch is just one input option of many. It's certainly not the holy grail.

NebulaClash
Jun 24, 2011, 10:17 AM
It's not the holy grail, but it is a very useful method when used in the right context. Minority Report got it wrong in making it a vertical entry approach. The iPad gets it right in making it a horizontal entry approach, as did Star Trek for the most part.

What I mean is the functionality that could be done with your fingers exceeds our current technology, but it won't forever. Children growing up with touch today will create amazing technology tomorrow.

But we'll always have keyboards, and mice, and voice input, and whatever else comes along. Whatever works. But one thing that works GREAT is touch for certain operations. People who can't see the point of touch make me wonder how they cannot see these advantages.

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 10:31 AM
the tablet market will never me like the mp3 market.

there is already a MASSIVE fan base for android and everything android. this alone will secure future competition. you also sound like you would want it to be 2.0 **** me!!!

competition will do nothing but good for apple and it's consumers.

in a year or so various manufactures such as htc and samsung will release new versions and will quickly catch up to apple and in many way, overtake apple. and thus it will basically be like the mobile market it at the moment.

Just like competitors did with mp3 players - they'll still release products, but they'll be uninspired - they'll tout them as iPad killers, but the manufacturers will know their fate before they're released (evo, xoom, etc). I'm not seeing statistics that suggest the android fan base is as massive as people claim it is.. It seems more and more like a small segment of techies represent all of e noise created by android - even manufacturers are swayed by this noise - they put all this effort into advertising their new hardware, slap an os on them that they think people like, and no one buys them (xoom)

aughsum
Jun 24, 2011, 10:35 AM
Margins are higher on the substandard tabs. The more they unload the more the company makes. It's not like they are trying to promote whats BEST for people.

Well, yeah - if you put tablet a and tablet b next to an iPad, tablet a and b won't sell. It's like girls intentionally having less attractive friends.

swagi
Jun 24, 2011, 11:52 AM
<snip>

Frankly, the vast majority of computer use by most people is consumption. There is a subset of users who are heavy producers, and there is a subset of users who are heavy consumers, and some in between. Now I grant you, it is easier to produce with a keyboard and mouse -- because that is what we have been trained to do! I guarantee you the first time most people were confronted with a mouse they were thinking how much easier it is to use a keyboard . . .

<snip>
But the average iPad user is not me, not you, not anyone who learned keyboard shortcuts :) The average iPad user is going to be consumer first, producer a little bit. But the methods of producing will change and grow as companies learn the ins and outs of what multitouch can do. Look at Garage Band and tell me that was the first thing you thought of when you thought about touch screens . . .

<snip>


I agree with all the things you mentioned. But I habe to point the finger into some obvious oddities why I personally think we are not heading to a post-PC era.

You know, most of the consuming users I know basically once in a while like to produce something - be it a formal letter they have to write or some other document. Currently they have to either buy a new printer from HP to complement your iPad or use a PC based workaround to actually print this stuff.

But as you mentioned GarageBand - yes, I can see that an iPad may be a great COMPLIMENTARY device for manipulating various sliders on SoundFX. The full blown GrageBand OTOH seems to me like a quick and dirty alternative on the road. Nothing more, nothing less.

So this just brings it back to the main point - people like me will not be happy in the postPC era :D.

Oh - and to all those posters bitching about bad internet experience on Android: I personally prefer Dolphin over Mobile Safari. You should give it a try and then come back.

RawBert
Jun 24, 2011, 11:57 AM
You know what is the saddest part is you believe that crap.


You know, the saddest part is that you hang out in an Apple-centric forum and never give any credit to Apple for anything. You swear up and down that the data shown in this article is bull. And that you know better because of your personal experience. You get off on trying to discredit Apple to a bunch of MacHeads and Apple product enthusiasts. Pfft.. :rolleyes: Please...
No THAT is sad.

aristotle
Jun 24, 2011, 11:58 AM
I find it funny to see people arguing with people in the tech industry in this thread.

The iPad can replace the need for a laptop for most business users especially executives. They could still have a desktop at their desk but could take their iPad with them to meetings and to use on the road instead of lugging around a laptop.

With the plethora of meeting apps like gotomeeting and webex and remoting apps like VNC clients, RDP client and logmein or splash desktop, you can always connect back to your desktop PC when you need to and join meetings hosted by others without the need for a laptop. That same remoting technology can be use to connect back to your workstation if need be from a shared terminal in meeting rooms as a backup.

I would not be shocked if we see laptops disappear from businesses in the near future to be replaced by a combination of a workstation at the desk and a tablet for portability.

kdarling
Jun 24, 2011, 12:45 PM
It's not the holy grail, but it is a very useful method when used in the right context. Minority Report got it wrong in making it a vertical entry approach. The iPad gets it right in making it a horizontal entry approach, as did Star Trek for the most part.

Come to think of it, Minority Report didn't use touch that much. The big scenes were about air gestures, a la Kinect, except using old-tech lighted finger gloves.

What I mean is the functionality that could be done with your fingers exceeds our current technology, but it won't forever.

I think that touch functionality hasn't progressed at all in a long while. The productization and marketing of it sure has, though. Which is excellent for developers like me :)

I do visualize more sensitive touch tech. For instance, being able to detect each whisker of a paint brush. And devices gaining touch along their edges, not just their faces.

Children growing up with touch today will create amazing technology tomorrow.

But we'll always have keyboards, and mice, and voice input, and whatever else comes along. Whatever works.


Yep. Ironically, for the foreseeable future they will create that amazing touch technology while using a keyboard to write the code, and a pen or mouse to draw the product details and schematics.


But one thing that works GREAT is touch for certain operations. People who can't see the point of touch make me wonder how they cannot see these advantages.

I agree. As you no doubt know by now, I've been doing touch for decades, and have a good feel (pun) for what works and doesn't. My homes have had touchscreens in them since the early 1990s. I'm a big proponent of them for some things.

Heck, below is a photo of my youngest daughter back in mid 2004 at the age of two, using her favorite kid's HTML _and_ Flash websites on her own touchscreen Toughbook. (She started when she was one.) Long before she could physically click a mouse, she learned on her own how to drag and drop using her finger. She also learned to write very early by using a stylus-driven handheld with a Windows CE handwriting recognition app.

And yet I also see many things that should still use buttons. Remote controls, for instance. What red-blooded man does not have all the buttons on his remotes memorized so he doesn't have to look down at them while surfing channels or playing videos?

42streetsdown
Jun 24, 2011, 12:57 PM
i find it hilarious that tablets are being referred to as 'non-computers'. Of course it's a computer, so is your smart phone. it's ridiculous to say otherwise.

foiden
Jun 24, 2011, 01:27 PM
Post-PC era is really a name, but I also don't see it as truly Post PC. However, tablets could just be very popular, in the future. They do indeed get done what a lot of people forcibly needed a computer for, before. Heck, my laptops (both of them) pretty much are relegated to heavy lifting (professional creation work), burning CDs, and games that only run on Windows or OSX.

Still, the big thing I saw with the tablets is the insane amount of people who are intimidated by using the computer for simple regular (non-work) activities. And even some light-work activities. Sure, typing isn't quite as easy, but everything around said typing is easier and more intuitive.

Excel, might work on a Windows Tablet, as long as it is redesigned like Numbers did on the iPad. iWork on iPad is definitely a different animal, by design, than the OSX versions for great reason. If microsoft are smart, they'll do the same thing with their Office releases. Just do like iWork and make them file compatible and shareable. It's only a bad thing if they try to make it with the same exact interface as the PC version. They've done it before on the tablets that failed.

But the most important things? The reason I bought an iPad for my Mom? It comes down to two this:

She's familiar with iTunes, the default selection of apps are self-explanatory, and I hand it over to her saying, "Ok, this is a touch interface, if it needs a certain input function like a keyboard, just touch where you want to type. This is the sleep button, volume, and lock buttons. iTunes works with it. That one button on the front is how you back out of any application to the desktop." I could technically skip sentence 2. But there's just not much to remember, I could let her loose and she'll go right at it. As she buys Apps, on her time, she'll learn progressively with little to no instruction. Plain and simple.

I did just that. She can learn to make use of it, her way, with the least amount of help from me.

I also think the one portability issue really holding back laptops (yep, even the 11" light as a feather Air) is that they are flip-tops. They require a table (or flat surface) to set upon. So they basically function as desktops for which you can easily carry around to whatever next table you want to place and compute from.

Tablets require none of that, can be carried around in one hand (easily), and used for whatever application they need. They can be used in vertical stands like Piano stands, music stands, etc. That freedom right there, basically makes it a use-anywhere device and keep the comfortable screen real-estate.

RWinOR
Jun 24, 2011, 01:33 PM
Oh - and to all those posters bitching about bad internet experience on Android: I personally prefer Dolphin over Mobile Safari. You should give it a try and then come back.

You are missing the point the browser just works in iOS. No need to download or tweak or manipulate, as you would need to in Android.

What is really sad... The Fandroids coming into an Apple forum, jumping up and down about what we need and how bad iOS is, and the fact they believe their own propaganda.

iOS works well for most people. Android does not. Then Android fanatics need to find their own sandbox to play in. Why is it that anytime someone says something good about Apple, iOS, Macs, iPad, iPods, or iPhones in an Apple forum, (Yes Android supporters, read the banner on the top, this is Macrumors not Android Rumors) they do not know what they are talking about.

Thank God we have all those Android fans to enlighten us and steer us in the right direction, since it is obvious that Apple does not know what to create or market and needs Android there to push them to be competive. (Sarcasm intended!!)

Rodimus Prime
Jun 24, 2011, 01:43 PM
You are missing the point the browser just works in iOS. No need to download or tweak or manipulate, as you would need to in Android.

What is really sad... The Fandroids coming into an Apple forum, jumping up and down about what we need and how bad iOS is, and the fact they believe their own propaganda.

iOS works well for most people. Android does not. Then Android fanatics need to find their own sandbox to play in. Why is it that anytime someone says something good about Apple, iOS, Macs, iPad, iPods, or iPhones in an Apple forum, (Yes Android supporters, read the banner on the top, this is Macrumors not Android Rumors) they do not know what they are talking about.

Thank God we have all those Android fans to enlighten us and steer us in the right direction, since it is obvious that Apple does not know what to create or market and needs Android there to push them to be competive. (Sarcasm intended!!)

You do know that a lot of us use Apple devices. Just because we do not worship Apple for all our things does not mean we should not come here.
Sorry I an others do not have our lives revolved around Apple. We use the best tool for what we want. Some times it is Apple other times it is not.

For Phone OS I flat out thing iOS sucks. It is the worse. For MP3 player iOS is great. iPod is bar none the best portable media player and iOS is great for it but for a Phone sorry iOS for me sucks. It is way to limited, it sucks at providing information at a glance. iOS5 provides some and I mean some half bake solutions but still lags behind all the others at providing info at a glance.

For mobile browser sorry but I find Android stock mobile browser to be a lot better than Mobile Safari. I personally do not like the dophin browser some people love it. I like mobile FireFox over it but Android stock one is my default browser on my phone.

Key difference is I have a choice on what I want to use. I am not told by Apple that this is the best for everyone. Sorry but that is not trust.

NebulaClash
Jun 24, 2011, 01:59 PM
(snip)

Very cute, thanks for sharing the early touch user picture!

One thing I love about touch technology is you don't have to teach either little children or elderly parents how to use it. I gave an iPad to my father without any instruction. The next day he said he loved it, never wanted to read a paper book again he loved iBooks so much. To this day, I've never had to explain how to use the iPad. I've never had that experience with any other technology. I'm still his tech support for his Windows box (go figure), but I got him a MacBook and he likes that too and I rarely have to explain stuff there. But I have to explain a bit, something that never happens with the iPad.

swagi
Jun 24, 2011, 02:32 PM
You are missing the point the browser just works in iOS. No need to download or tweak or manipulate, as you would need to in Android.

What is really sad... The Fandroids coming into an Apple forum, jumping up and down about what we need and how bad iOS is, and the fact they believe their own propaganda.

iOS works well for most people. Android does not. Then Android fanatics need to find their own sandbox to play in. Why is it that anytime someone says something good about Apple, iOS, Macs, iPad, iPods, or iPhones in an Apple forum, (Yes Android supporters, read the banner on the top, this is Macrumors not Android Rumors) they do not know what they are talking about.

Thank God we have all those Android fans to enlighten us and steer us in the right direction, since it is obvious that Apple does not know what to create or market and needs Android there to push them to be competive. (Sarcasm intended!!)

You know what is really really really sad. Mac users calling other Mac users names like Fandroid just because they don't buy into the iOS propaganda ********.

Proud Mac user since Dual USB iceBook and 10.0.0 - and you?

People bitching about the bad web surfing experience in Android are just plain uneducated. And sorry to burst your bubble, but today my wife and I realized that we had forgotten to put an order out for medical stuff we need. Ah...she just pulled out her iPhone and went to that webpage. She couldn't log in for whatever reason (I don't know if mobile Safari didn't like the cookie, or the switch to https or whatever - I don't give a damn - it hung).

I gave her my phone. Though she bitched about Dolphin not being as easy to use as Safari she at least could log in and send the order. So this is my anecdotal story of how mobile Safari sometimes sucking.

aristotle
Jun 24, 2011, 06:28 PM
For Phone OS I flat out thing iOS sucks. It is the worse. For MP3 player iOS is great. iPod is bar none the best portable media player and iOS is great for it but for a Phone sorry iOS for me sucks. It is way to limited, it sucks at providing information at a glance. iOS5 provides some and I mean some half bake solutions but still lags behind all the others at providing info at a glance.

Which department do you work for at MSFT? Are you on the Windows Phone 7 marketing team? Twice in one post you basically parroted the windows phone 7 marketing mantra. Listen a small little square on a low resolution screen is not going to give me information at a glance even if it rotates through it quickly. Unless if you have almost no friends with little or no updates happening, a live time for facebook will be useless because it would be faster to fast switch to an app than trying to make out something from a little square. You might as well just have an icon with a badge on it like iOS has.

For mobile browser sorry but I find Android stock mobile browser to be a lot better than Mobile Safari. I personally do not like the dophin browser some people love it. I like mobile FireFox over it but Android stock one is my default browser on my phone.

Key difference is I have a choice on what I want to use. I am not told by Apple that this is the best for everyone. Sorry but that is not trust.
Lovely, you then try to hide your employment by praising the android browser.

iOS 5 will have notifications on the lock screen for "information at a glance' but in reality, you should not be looking at your phone unless if you can devote your full attention to it. That means, you should not be looking at your phone when you are driving for example.

RWinOR
Jun 24, 2011, 07:20 PM
People bitching about the bad web surfing experience in Android are just plain uneducated.


You keep making my case for me. Android Fans think ALL NONE ANDROID fans are just plain ignorant and uneducated. I have used many different platforms, and many different OS's. The Android experience lacks for surfing the web. That statement is supported by the article that started this thread. You can call iOS users uneducated until the cows come home. Those of us who use it and come to this forum for intelligent threads know this. Is iOS perfect, by no means, is it better then any of todays alternates, ABSOLUTELY.

I have an Android phone, worst piece of crap in the world. Like many new phone owners I was very excited about it when it was new. I tweaked it and thought oh this is great. Then about 1 month after ownership it needed a Hard reset form the phone carrier. Now I get to set it up again. Not quite so fun the second time around. Then I have to redo everything about every 45 days. Still not so fun. The phone company sent me a brand new phone about 1 month ago. I did not bother to tweak it. I just want the blasted thing to work out of the box. With Android it does not work out of the box. It is like a windows PC, I have to customize it and configure the crap out of it. Then it crashes and I get to start over. I do not need to reset ANY iOS device.

You tell me which is the better user experience!!

firewood
Jun 24, 2011, 09:17 PM
As for Minority Report, Tom Cruise had to take breaks every five minutes because his arms got so tired doing the takes for hand motions in the air. And he was a young guy, too.


Tom must have been a weakling compared to that old college math professor I had who filled 4 large blackboards full of equations pretty much non-stop for a good portion of an hour. (My arms feel tired just thinking about doing that.)

firewood
Jun 24, 2011, 09:31 PM
By 2020, the majority of consumer computer purchases will be tablets. Not Macs. Not PCs. Tablets.

Since smartphones are already small tablet computers, this is close to happening already.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 24, 2011, 09:34 PM
Tom must have been a weakling compared to that old college math professor I had who filled 4 large blackboards full of equations pretty much non-stop for a good portion of an hour. (My arms feel tired just thinking about doing that.)

Just to point out that you are not holding up the full weight of your arm and more importantly are not having to cover come moment force of your arm hang there. You are pressing back against the blackboard and that is handling the moment forces.

It makes a huge differences. Try holding you arms straight out for a while see how it feels then put a finger against a wall and repeat and tell me which is easier.

kdarling
Jun 24, 2011, 10:14 PM
Tom must have been a weakling compared to that old college math professor I had who filled 4 large blackboards full of equations pretty much non-stop for a good portion of an hour. (My arms feel tired just thinking about doing that.)

Yeah, it would seem like that, wouldn't it?

However, anyone who's been through military Boot Camp can understand the special pain involved in holding out their arms for long periods. It starts out so easy...

:)

swagi
Jun 25, 2011, 03:42 AM
You keep making my case for me. Android Fans think ALL NONE ANDROID fans are just plain ignorant and uneducated. <snip>

You tell me which is the better user experience!!

Sorry - we never spoke about user experience. You spoke about surfing experience. These are two different beasts.

Googles stock browser isn't that bad at all. And Dolphin is my browser of choice. The tabbed browsing metaphor works extremely well in contrast to Google's or Safari's window-based operation. You ever had pop-ups in Safari sitting idle in RAM? I experienced this to be the main reason, my my wife's iPhone sometimes is quite unresponsive.

Your point about user experience is granted. I personally also have a lot of gripes with my phone - network protocol sometimes hanging, GPS use sometimes works wonderful, sometimes spotty to say the least. But I cannot agree about the bad websurfing experience.

RWinOR
Jun 25, 2011, 09:41 AM
Sorry - we never spoke about user experience. You spoke about surfing experience. These are two different beasts.

Googles stock browser isn't that bad at all.

To me the web surfing is part of the user experience. My phone just got an update late yesterday afternoon. I tried the web surfing this morning. It is slightly improved. Previous version would load web pages at full screen so I would have to flip around to see it all. I could not make it small enough to fit on the screen. When going to a web page which requires a password, like my bank, it would hide the PW filed under the keyboard. When going to data entry fields on a web page, it is not smart enough to now the phone number field should bring up the number pad. iOS recognizes these fields and changes the keyboard automatically.

This mornings update at least loads the page so it fits on the screen. To be honest that is all I tested as I really do not like surfing on my Android.

Other issues with Android is all the extra "clicks". For instance I keep GPS off, my phone burns through battery like kids through candy. I have to keep it plugged in. I get 8 hours standby 4 hours talk, and if GPS or hotspot is on, it last 1 hour without charging. I go to a navigation, says GPS is off, takes me to the GPS screen. (so far so good) then I have to start GPS flip to another screen, then the splash screen about dangers etc. After all this it bails out of Navigation program so now I have to go to programs navigate to the NAV program and restart it. Why doesn't it go back to the navigation screen?

How about keeping time. My phone HTC Evil(EVO) needs to be reset so often because of a known bug. It flips time zones and weather location about every 30 - 45 days. Sometimes power cycling fixes it, sometimes going into airplane mode and back out fixes it, and sometimes it requires a hard reset. Once it changes time zones all my text messages, e-mails, alarms etc are out of sync and difficult to follow. This has been an issue for over 1.5 years. Who should be fixing this? is this a Google issue, HTC, or Sprint? the answer is they all point fingers, so the end user (ME), gets stuck with substandard equipment that no one will fix. With iOS, Apple make the hardware, and the software, they are vested in the total experience, therefore something of this magnitude would not go un answered for 18+ months. BTW Sprint says that 100% of the EVO's do this, and the techs have told me to my face.... "it is no big deal just get use to it".

Consequently my phone is ONLY a phone now. I will not set up anything I am using it as a dumb phone with a touch screen.

How about ringer volume, I keep my phone on vibrate. I hate cell phone ring in the office and since my phone is always with me vibrate works well. The problem is at random intervals, my phone changes ring volume from vibrate to loud, or silent. I do not change this Android does it on its own.

The update I got last night was the first update I have received since owning the phone. Apple updates much more frequently.

Edit: New issue discovered... The new update has my screen locked at 40% brightness. It is so dim I can not see it outside. Even gong into settings and forcing the brightness up it does not change. End Edit

You take all these types of issues and it is easy to understand why iOS is ruling the web browsing. I am sure I am not alone in my piss poor experience with Android, perhaps just the most vocal.

singlestick
Jun 25, 2011, 10:23 AM
To me the web surfing is part of the user experience. ...

Who should be fixing this? is this a Google issue, HTC, or Sprint? the answer is they all point fingers, so the end user (ME), gets stuck with substandard equipment that no one will fix. With iOS, Apple make the hardware, and the software, they are vested in the total experience, therefore something of this magnitude would not go un answered for 18+ months. BTW Sprint says that 100% of the EVO's do this, and the techs have told me to my face.... "it is no big deal just get use to it". ...


You take all these types of issues and it is easy to understand why iOS is ruling the web browsing. I am sure I am not alone in my piss poor experience with Android, perhaps just the most vocal.

Wow. Any company that tells you that something is no big deal is really asking you to switch to a competitor as soon as you can.

RWinOR
Jun 25, 2011, 10:27 AM
Wow. Any company that tells you that something is no big deal is really asking you to switch to a competitor as soon as you can.

This is exactly why I have not purchased a different phone, I did not want to be stuck for an additional 2 years! As soon as my contract is up I am moving to Verizon.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 25, 2011, 12:02 PM
To me the web surfing is part of the user experience. My phone just got an update late yesterday afternoon. I tried the web surfing this morning. It is slightly improved. Previous version would load web pages at full screen so I would have to flip around to see it all. I could not make it small enough to fit on the screen. When going to a web page which requires a password, like my bank, it would hide the PW filed under the keyboard. When going to data entry fields on a web page, it is not smart enough to now the phone number field should bring up the number pad. iOS recognizes these fields and changes the keyboard automatically.

This mornings update at least loads the page so it fits on the screen. To be honest that is all I tested as I really do not like surfing on my Android.

Other issues with Android is all the extra "clicks". For instance I keep GPS off, my phone burns through battery like kids through candy. I have to keep it plugged in. I get 8 hours standby 4 hours talk, and if GPS or hotspot is on, it last 1 hour without charging. I go to a navigation, says GPS is off, takes me to the GPS screen. (so far so good) then I have to start GPS flip to another screen, then the splash screen about dangers etc. After all this it bails out of Navigation program so now I have to go to programs navigate to the NAV program and restart it. Why doesn't it go back to the navigation screen?

How about keeping time. My phone HTC Evil(EVO) needs to be reset so often because of a known bug. It flips time zones and weather location about every 30 - 45 days. Sometimes power cycling fixes it, sometimes going into airplane mode and back out fixes it, and sometimes it requires a hard reset. Once it changes time zones all my text messages, e-mails, alarms etc are out of sync and difficult to follow. This has been an issue for over 1.5 years. Who should be fixing this? is this a Google issue, HTC, or Sprint? the answer is they all point fingers, so the end user (ME), gets stuck with substandard equipment that no one will fix. With iOS, Apple make the hardware, and the software, they are vested in the total experience, therefore something of this magnitude would not go un answered for 18+ months. BTW Sprint says that 100% of the EVO's do this, and the techs have told me to my face.... "it is no big deal just get use to it".

Consequently my phone is ONLY a phone now. I will not set up anything I am using it as a dumb phone with a touch screen.

How about ringer volume, I keep my phone on vibrate. I hate cell phone ring in the office and since my phone is always with me vibrate works well. The problem is at random intervals, my phone changes ring volume from vibrate to loud, or silent. I do not change this Android does it on its own.

The update I got last night was the first update I have received since owning the phone. Apple updates much more frequently.

Edit: New issue discovered... The new update has my screen locked at 40% brightness. It is so dim I can not see it outside. Even gong into settings and forcing the brightness up it does not change. End Edit

You take all these types of issues and it is easy to understand why iOS is ruling the web browsing. I am sure I am not alone in my piss poor experience with Android, perhaps just the most vocal.

Yeah I have read threw your stuff and one of 2 things are true.

1. You are lieing and not telling the truth.
2. Your phone is by far and I mean BY FAR an exception and clearly no were close to the norm.

Reason I know one of those two things are true is I do hang out an Android phone that is pretty hard on flaws and I have YET to see a single thing like what you are saying happening pop up which makes me lean even more so to the lieing part.

Bytor65
Jun 25, 2011, 12:54 PM
To me the numbers look like something is wrong with them. They are so far out of line with market share in phones that it makes me question if any of them are valid. The tablet numbers I know are wrong and the way the data is collected is bad.
Since the data collection is garbage the results are garbage.
To me this is example of the lazy media only caring about headlines because the results do not line up at all correctly and if something looks really wrong 99% of the time it is wrong.

This is the delusion thinking I see from conspiracy theorists and internet fanboys everywhere. Any source that states something they don't like, is somehow flawed. :rolleyes:

Rodimus Prime
Jun 25, 2011, 01:02 PM
This is the delusion thinking I see from conspiracy theorists and internet fanboys everywhere. Any source that states something they don't like, is somehow flawed. :rolleyes:


As I said I question the source of how they collected the data. If you collected the data off lets say a sight like MacRumors.com lets be honest here it is going to be way off base in terms of market share since more Apple devices will hit this sit up that what is out there. Or you can go to AndroidCentral.com and it would be way off base in terms of Android devices.

Using Ad data is going to weight the data heavy on iOS devices. Reason for it is that it is fairly easy to install ad blocking on rooted android devices so all those devices are no longer counted.

Just easy metric has its draw backs and will throw data off.

For them it is off the sites own by that company so they could be Apple heavier sites. The fact that they are not listing were they collected the data from and how makes me question how bias it is.

RWinOR
Jun 25, 2011, 01:09 PM
Yeah I have read threw your stuff and one of 2 things are true.

1. You are lieing and not telling the truth.
2. Your phone is by far and I mean BY FAR an exception and clearly no were close to the norm.

Reason I know one of those two things are true is I do hang out an Android phone that is pretty hard on flaws and I have YET to see a single thing like what you are saying happening pop up which makes me lean even more so to the lieing part.

This is the problem with Android fans like you! Apple does nothing right and Android does everything right. When someone says something good about Apple they are delusional. When someone says something bad about Android they are lying. You need to grow up. Not everything Android does if perfect.

Why do you come to an Apple forum? You should go bask in your infinite wisdom and Android glory in their forums.

Believe what you like. Everything I stated is the truth. You can google the time zone problem with HTC EVO's and see for yourself.

I just got back from the sprint store. They changed my screen. Said the back light went out. It seems crazy to me that it happened with the push down, but what the heck I can see it again. They also claim the new version 2.3 fixes the time zone issue, that was yesterdays push down. The jury is out on that one. Takes 30 days to show up.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 25, 2011, 01:21 PM
This is the problem with Android fans like you! Apple does nothing right and Android does everything right. When someone says something good about Apple they are delusional. When someone says something bad about Android they are lying. You need to grow up. Not everything Android does if perfect.

Why do you come to an Apple forum? You should go bask in your infinite wisdom and Android glory in their forums.

Believe what you like. Everything I stated is the truth. You can google the time zone problem with HTC EVO's and see for yourself.

I just got back from the sprint store. They changed my screen. Said the back light went out. It seems crazy to me that it happened with the push down, but what the heck I can see it again. They also claim the new version 2.3 fixes the time zone issue, that was yesterdays push down. The jury is out on that one. Takes 30 days to show up.



So because I do not use Apple for everything in my life I should not come to an Apple forum and people wonder why Apple fans are so stuck up. I am not the one who is throwing out insults. I do not let people throw out blanted BS about something no matter what OS. I have taken hit at blackberry forums for defending iOS and hitting blackberry (was a blackberry user at the time).

As for Android forums they are not as bad as they are here
For example
OP: Screen Yellow
Response: Happens to everyone wait it out, or it is a minor problem do not worry about it.

Android phones they will try to help solve your problem or join in. Fact that I have not seen your issues pop up tells me a lot.

As for the time Zone issue. Sorry that is a Sprint problem not an HTC or Android OS issue. Unless you changed a setting the default is get the time from the tower. Tower tells everything that you need to know. It pings the tower every so often for an update. Sounds like Sprint has something messed up on your account. Phone is not the problem. I have see AT&T mess up the time before on a phone and it would effect me no matter what phone I ran and it was related to only my account which was 3 different phones, 3 manufactures and and same issue. Pop in my GF sim at the time no issue at all just my sim. After a while it was fixed but still it was an AT&T/Cingular issue at the time.

Bytor65
Jun 25, 2011, 01:28 PM
As I said I question the source of how they collected the data. If you collected the data off lets say a sight like MacRumors.com lets be honest here it is going to be way off base in terms of market share since more Apple devices will hit this sit up that what is out there.


You didn't ask how it was collected, you just repeatedly insisted that it must be wrong, and that you already knew it was garbage:

Since the data collection is garbage the results are garbage.

Comscore exists for precisely the purpose of gathering accurate web data, if you actually cared how it was collected, you could visit comscore and read about it:
http://www.comscore.com/About_comScore/Methodology/Unified_Digital_Measurement

It is pretty clear that they go to great lengths to gather accurate information, probably the greatest in the industry. For you to just blow them off as garbage, is just delusional biased thinking.

Bytor65
Jun 25, 2011, 01:32 PM
Now as far as the actual data content. Those numbers are interesting because they show all non-PC device traffic, not just tablets.

That iPad has the ~90% of tablet traffic is just about the least interesting piece of news in that table.

I am much more surprised that in most nations iPad is already 20-30% of all device traffic. Consider the short time on sale, this is much bigger surprise.

I am also surprised how high total iOS traffic is of all device traffic. So much so, that if you doing anything for mobile, you would have to be an idiot to use flash.

The final big one for me, is that I apparently live in iOS Nation: Canada.

Totaling the iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch traffic shows a mind boggling 83% of all device web traffic in Canada is on iOS!

Rodimus Prime
Jun 25, 2011, 01:33 PM
You didn't ask how it was collected, you just repeatedly insisted that it must be wrong, and that you already knew it was garbage:



Comscore exists for precisely the purpose of gathering accurate web data, if you actually cared how it was collected, you could visit comscore and read about it:
http://www.comscore.com/About_comScore/Methodology/Unified_Digital_Measurement

It is pretty clear that they go to great lengths to gather accurate information, probably the greatest in the industry. For you to just blow them off as garbage, is just delusional biased thinking.
The garbage is the fact that they report it like it is a HUGE amount in infomatoin and from there I see Ads as a source. That is going to weight it much more heavily in favor of iOS than Android as you have the adblocking running on Android so they never get counted.

Mix that with alternative browsers running that also going to report false data. I know Dolphin for example reports itself as a desktop to get around mobile blocking.

I still question the results because they do not line up even close to marketshare.
Mix that with a number like 97% also makes the question value.

Rule 1. If something looks funny. 9 times out of 10 it is wrong. 97% is easily in that range of something is wrong.

Bytor65
Jun 25, 2011, 01:37 PM
The garbage is the fact that they report it like it is a HUGE amount in infomatoin and from there I see Ads as a source. That is going to weight it much more heavily in favor of iOS than Android as you have the adblocking running on Android so they never get counted.


Again, you are off on a delusional rant based on faulty assumptions rather than reading the details handed to you on a platter.

If you actually read their methodology, they tag both ads and content, which will allow them to gather information on ad uptake/blocking etc.

That will not reduce the hit rate for browsers using ad blocking, because content is also tagged.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 25, 2011, 01:44 PM
Again, you are off on a delusional rant based on faulty assumptions rather than reading the details handed to you on a platter.

If you actually read their methodology, they tag both ads and content, which will allow them to gather information on ad uptake/blocking etc.

That will not reduce the hit rate for browsers using ad blocking, because content is also tagged.

and if the browser is reporting it is from a desktop? That reports back false data.

It comes from where they get it. I posted an example on browser marketshare a while ago. While the precetanages they collected were valid they also where heavily biases and the site knew that when it was posting them. It made a point of putting that information at the top. It listed most of our sites are targets are from the more technical area (geeks) so our results are going to be weighted in that direction. That means FF had much more penetrations in the results that it would from the general public.

I do question it because the results seem way to far out of line. Some number are way to high which leads me to believe that it a lot of that data could be collected from more apple heavy sites. Media picks up on it and goes hog wild to gets hits. They do not care that the information has bias results in it.

Bytor65
Jun 25, 2011, 02:18 PM
I do question it because the results seem way to far out of line. Some number are way to high which leads me to believe that it a lot of that data could be collected from more apple heavy sites.

IOW you just assume the numbers must be lower, so you assume their methodology must be wrong because they don't coincide with your assumptions.

So a house of cards based on your assumptions at every step. IOW delusion.

FWIW, comscore also relies a panel of 2 million+ participants that are constantly monitored, and surveys to make sure their web analytics are actually tracking real user behavior. It is cross correlated in many ways.

But hey sure, the most respected web analytics firms out there analyzing multiple correlated inputs, must be making all kinds of rookie mistakes because it doesn't agree with your biased assumptions. :rolleyes:

DeathChill
Jun 25, 2011, 04:06 PM
Here's another interesting data point for you Rodimus:
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-wifi-use-2011-6

iOS devices connect to wireless networks at restaurants much more then Android devices.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 25, 2011, 04:22 PM
Here's another interesting data point for you Rodimus:
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-wifi-use-2011-6

iOS devices connect to wireless networks at restaurants much more then Android devices.

Honestly those results do not have much more impossible results compared to iPad one.
Also after using both multiple os. iOS is the most annoying about jumping up and down when it sees an open network with a pop up compare that to android most you get is a notication in the bar. iOS hit join andriod easy to join yes but one more step to go threw. Blackberry it well sucks.
If pulling from AT&T it going to be heavier iPhone because of the autolog in for AT&T phone. I know on my phone I tend to not mess with wifi like at boarders because of the extra hoops to jump threw to log into there networks and hitting the stupid agree crap. Starbuck autolog in.

RWinOR
Jun 25, 2011, 05:19 PM
As for the time Zone issue. Sorry that is a Sprint problem not an HTC or Android OS issue. \.

Lets see if I understand..... Apple is the evil empire. Google is the savor of mankind. You come into a Apple forum and expect people to bow down to your superior intelligence because you use Android and we use iOS. You believe any issues with Android are not Android but the phone carriers fault. If I google the problem but did not go on an Android forum it is not a real issue.

I bet you are the type who drives a Chevy and goes to the Ford forums and tells everyone how stupid they are for driving Fords.

You talk about hurling insults, it was you who first called me liar. I simply was stating my experience with Android. You can chose to believe it or not, that is your choice. I never called you anything but what you are, an Android fan. That is not an insult but a truth. If you take being an Android fan as an insult then that is your own baggage.

We all use what works best for each of us. For me it is iOS. For you it is Android. I like iOS, you like Android. Grow up.

swagi
Jun 25, 2011, 05:51 PM
To me the web surfing is part of the user experience. My phone just got an update late yesterday afternoon.

<snip>
Other issues with Android is all the extra "clicks". For instance I keep GPS off, my phone burns through battery like kids through candy. I have to keep it plugged in.
<snip>
How about ringer volume, I keep my phone on vibrate. I hate cell phone ring in the office and since my phone is always with me vibrate works well. The problem is at random intervals, my phone changes ring volume from vibrate to loud, or silent. I do not change this Android does it on its own.
<snip>
The update I got last night was the first update I have received since owning the phone. Apple updates much more frequently.


<snip>

I just got back from the sprint store. They changed my screen. Said the back light went out. It seems crazy to me that it happened with the push down, but what the heck I can see it again. They also claim the new version 2.3 fixes the time zone issue, that was yesterdays push down. The jury is out on that one. Takes 30 days to show up.

Though you seem to have a nasty behaving phone, and I am really sorry for your bad experience, it seems like either HTC screw up badly or Samsung made a decent job.

Your user case about GPS and WiFi use - you can switch them on and off via the top drawer. Maybe this is what sometimes happens to your phone vibration, as you can also set this in the top drawer.

If that is too much hassle for you, maybe you should just use the Energy Saving widget. This one is preinstalled on my phone - maybe you just haven't discovered it. This widget triggers WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS, Google Sync and has 3 different brightness settings all with the touch of one finger. I don't know, if HTC uses it - but on Samsung it works like a charm.

And did you really just post that you are not on 2.3? Well - then this is clearly a provider problem. 2.3 on the Evo has been ITW for half a year - at least a quick search on Google reveals that.

RWinOR
Jun 25, 2011, 06:18 PM
And did you really just post that you are not on 2.3? Well - then this is clearly a provider problem. 2.3 on the Evo has been ITW for half a year - at least a quick search on Google reveals that.

Thank you for the good advice. I use Juice defender to try to extend my battery life. It seems to help some.

When I went to the Sprint store this morning, the tech told me they started rolling out the 2.3 upgrade on June 8th, based on phone type. Mine was last night. I could tell an immediate difference. I am hoping that my phone will live up to all the claims I have heard about Android phones. I have noticed significant differences already. Not sure if it is better or not, time will be the judge of that one.

The Tech I got today was actually a joy, as you can tell from my post I am not a happy camper about Android, I did tell her right off the bat, sorry for my attitude but my phone has been nothing but a POS from the start. She listened to the issues, fixed them and was pleasant. She was actually a credit to Sprint and the Android community. She worked on my phone and assured me the problems I have been having are now resolved. She did acknowledge that the issues were real, and apologized for my trouble. Had she been my first Android tech I am sure my experience would be totally different.

As with anything, the user experience has to do as much with the support personal and user community as it does with the actual hardware.

Bytor65
Jun 25, 2011, 06:30 PM
Here's another interesting data point for you Rodimus:
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-wifi-use-2011-6

iOS devices connect to wireless networks at restaurants much more then Android devices.

Give it up. Data can't pierce the delusional bubble of his assumptions. No matter what the data, he just coming up with more rationalizations and more faulty assumptions.

NebulaClash
Jun 25, 2011, 09:52 PM
Anecdote: I'm seeing more iPhones in use in public than I do Android phones, a turnaround since a few months ago. Ignore this if you wish, as it is just my own observation of a few data points that could be coincidental. But that is what I've seen with my own eyes, a rise in iOS share.

RWinOR
Jun 25, 2011, 10:18 PM
Anecdote: I'm seeing more iPhones in use in public than I do Android phones, a turnaround since a few months ago. Ignore this if you wish, as it is just my own observation of a few data points that could be coincidental. But that is what I've seen with my own eyes, a rise in iOS share.

I believe you are correct I have made the same observation here in the Pacific North West. Go to any free wifi location and all you will notice is iPhones, and iPads. One of them is me. :D

DiamondMac
Jun 27, 2011, 11:25 AM
iOS is the most annoying about jumping up and down when it sees an open network with a pop up

I don't find it annoying