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kirk wilson
Jun 23, 2011, 12:24 PM
Hello-
I was writing this before, but my G5 crashed before I finished. I am interested
in any tips to keep this thing from freezing up during normal usage. I have only had it for three days. It is a hand-me-down from my family.

Dual 1.8 PPC G5, 2 gig RAM, 2 HD's, one is 250gig and one is 80gig.
There was a clean install of 10.4.11 on it, nothing else. It'll freeze up
in about an hour of regular use (internet or itunes); no black screen or grey screen, just a freeze up. Restarts beautifully.

I have:
-re-arranged the RAM, so it is in like- pairs. One pair of 2 gig sticks and one pair of 512 MB sticks. However, the system thinks that all 4 bays contain
one 512 mb stick each. A problem, I know. They were arranged differently before, and it read them properly, but it crashed a lot more.

-pulled the primary HD, because it sounded crunchy, and substituted the
secondary HD for it. I cloned the OS from my Mac Mini onto it. It worked beautifully, for 2 hours, then froze.

-installed Apple Jack, and tried to clean out stuff

-studied the "bad capacitor" issue; don't know whether to disassemble the
unit yet

-i have been able to replicate the crash by running itunes, and safari,
and opening a lot of Flash things on a web page all at once (to tax the itty-bitty processor a bit).. and it immediately freezes.


However, I left the thing on last night, all night (playing itunes and leaving an internet page up that constantly refreshes), and no crash!

So, I have got it to where it may not crash for several hours, but it will
eventually freeze up (no error warnings or kernel panic issues).

I say "crash" but I mean "freeze" basically. Same thing?

Have I done everything I can? (short of hunting for bad capacitors on the motherboard?) This computer was supposed to be trouble-free, according to the previous owner. I suspect he pulled some RAM or changed it around when he sent the unit to me. He's a filmmaker, so I suspect he had the maximum amount of RAM, originally. It's the proper type (3200, Kingston)

So now, it almost doesn't freeze up anymore, except that it just did!

(does my terrible AT&T DSL connection make any difference?
it's 0.3-0.7mbps, at best)

Thanks for any input-

I tried an archive search for this, but mac rumor's search engine
continuously took out the "g5"
and left me only with "mac" and "crashes" ... which is a bit broad.


kw



adcx64
Jun 23, 2011, 12:56 PM
The RAM itself could be bad. Try replacing it instead of trying different slots.
The fact that the machine thinks there is RAM in empty slots could indicate a more serious hardware problem.

Try resetting the PRAM.

After the startup chime hold:
COMMAND-OPTION-P-R
All at once.

Hope it helps!

Cox Orange
Jun 23, 2011, 01:09 PM
Another cause for freezes can be the temperature... but it sounds there is something about the RAM or RAM-Slots.

Try search on google. Type "G5 freeze site:macrumors.com" or what you would like to search for. Sorry I can't give any real helpful input. I wish you all the best, though.

PS: the heat thing is a bit more complicated then with an iMac G3, but there is a story I'd like to share. The iMac G3 is convection cooled and when I had it on 3 hours or so I had to open the window in front of my desk and put it so, that the cool air from outside cooled it and ta-da! no more freezes. (It was December :) but I sat in a 14 squaremeters big room in the students house at university)

aliensporebomb
Jun 23, 2011, 01:57 PM
Power supply could be marginal or failing. That's how my G5 died - the power supply finally failed.

kirk wilson
Jun 23, 2011, 02:01 PM
Is there a test for the Power Supply, downloadable, or some Apple Diagnostic
test?

kirk wilson
Jun 23, 2011, 02:20 PM
Also, I just reset the PRAM, but it crashed again. So, I will buy new RAM,
and replace the 2 one-gigabyte sticks. I'll leave the pair of
512's in, for now. They SEEM ok.


(One other loopy thing it's doing is since I switched HD's... the System Profiler
thinks that the ATA drive is the CD-DVD-drive, and that the Serial ATA
is the actual HD. This is backwards, I believe.


It's a great-looking computer, though!

kw

666sheep
Jun 23, 2011, 04:35 PM
So, I will buy new RAM,
and replace the 2 one-gigabyte sticks. I'll leave the pair of
512's in, for now. They SEEM ok.


Run your G5 with these 512MB sticks only and see what happens. 1GB is enough for Tiger to run quite smoothly. Give it some heavy load.

If these 1GB sticks are Kingston and are faulty, they're covered with lifetime manufacturer's warranty. Just find your local Kingston service center and you'll get new pair for free. If it works in my country, it must work in your too ;)

(One other loopy thing it's doing is since I switched HD's... the System Profiler
thinks that the ATA drive is the CD-DVD-drive, and that the Serial ATA
is the actual HD. This is backwards, I believe.

It's OK. DVD is ATA, HDD is SATA.

kirk wilson
Jun 23, 2011, 07:38 PM
..."Run your G5 with these 512MB sticks only and see what happens. 1GB is enough for Tiger to run quite smoothly. Give it some heavy load..."


I just did, with only the 512mb sticks in the proper slots, and it
crashed real quick.


But thanks for the tip; it got me wondering if those were the bad sticks,
and the 1G sticks are in fact ok. I am now trying the 1G sticks only, and removing the
512's.
I can't be buying any new RAM until "payday."
(oh wait, I don't have a job)

One thing I have learned is that when I re-arranged them earlier today in
the "proper" order, the computer read them correctly as 1G each, rather than
512mb each.
So, all the forums in Google that insist that the RAM sticks can be put in
any order at all... they are incorrect.

It remains to be seen whether one or all of my sticks are bad, however.

I'll have them all tested.



kw

adcx64
Jun 23, 2011, 07:45 PM
AFAIK, RAM can go in to a computer in any order.

If the RAM is not bad, it could be the Logic Board.

max••
Jun 24, 2011, 06:19 AM
AFAIK, RAM can go in to a computer in any order.

If the RAM is not bad, it could be the Logic Board.

that depends on the g5 some have to be in pairs (like mine) some can go in any order

Cox Orange
Jun 24, 2011, 07:21 AM
would "Rember" (a GUI to "Memtest" for PPC-Macs) give any further/reliable info on the status of the RAM?

kirk wilson
Jun 24, 2011, 12:58 PM
I'm wiping everything and re-installing a clean OSX 10.4 and all the updates and all the Flash and Java nonsense.. it's taken all night, and curiously the
G5 has not frozen up yet.

I read something about problems with Quartz Extreme, I read something about downloading Cocktail to clean out caches, and I read that I should re-seat the video card.

Seems like everyone's G5 was freezing up, at some point. What a lemon!


kw

kirk wilson
Jun 24, 2011, 03:14 PM
I'm ending this thread; I have to get away from this crazy computer!

It has frozen up with the clean install of OSX 10.4, and almost no
programs on it (I don't have my iLife disk anymore), and almost no demands made on the processors.


It was supposed to have been "just fine" when it was shipped to me, in its original box. Maybe bad RAM was put in it at the last minute, I don't know.
I'll have it checked at some point, but right now I want the G5 to just go away.

I've had 7 Apple computers over the years, and 4 of them were basket-cases which I resurrected.
So, I had confidence in my ability to get any Apple
computer working.

(I am SO glad I did not actually spend money on this
computer!)

Anyone looking for an older PPC should stick to the G4... it is a much more
reliable and predictable machine. The G5 is just terrible.

I have this idea that I might rip the guts out of the nice aluminum case,
and just put my Mac Mini inside of it, and PRETEND that I have a working G5.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice-


kw

max••
Jun 24, 2011, 04:28 PM
I'm ending this thread; I have to get away from this crazy computer!

It has frozen up with the clean install of OSX 10.4, and almost no
programs on it (I don't have my iLife disk anymore), and almost no demands made on the processors.


It was supposed to have been "just fine" when it was shipped to me, in its original box. Maybe bad RAM was put in it at the last minute, I don't know.
I'll have it checked at some point, but right now I want the G5 to just go away.

I've had 7 Apple computers over the years, and 4 of them were basket-cases which I resurrected.
So, I had confidence in my ability to get any Apple
computer working.

(I am SO glad I did not actually spend money on this
computer!)

Anyone looking for an older PPC should stick to the G4... it is a much more
reliable and predictable machine. The G5 is just terrible.

I have this idea that I might rip the guts out of the nice aluminum case,
and just put my Mac Mini inside of it, and PRETEND that I have a working G5.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice-


kw
What a pity, those g5's are grate machines if they work, mine has had it's share of problems too (freezing and ramping the fans up to full speed mostly) but has always come back

adcx64
Jun 25, 2011, 11:12 PM
G5's are known for having many issues.

Trdinput
Jul 9, 2011, 02:09 AM
Is there a test for the Power Supply, downloadable, or some Apple Diagnostic
test?

:eek: I just purchased a G5 ppc 2.7 dual with 10.5.8 installed. The case is absolutely perfect, it came in original box, the OS and original manual was included as well. I am thinking " what a deal, I only paid $301 including shipping. I find out by opening that it is full of dirt and nicotine. I removed an 8 oz dry measure of dirt and the nico was disgusting. After 4 hours of compressed air, filled an extra dry portable bottle to do so at 90psi. Here comes the moment of truth, beautiful tone and happy Mac, bitchen! With 5 minutes, I get a kernel panic, damn! Oh I replaced the half double A.

I contacted the seller and talked him into giving me the original OS 10.5.8, after all, that's what he had installed. I can't believe it, he agreed to do it. While waiting for USPS, I order a 1.5 ter and fresh ram. I install it all and reset the pram and smu. The screen freezes while finishing the install, damn, I have to write zeros now. The screen freezes after 20 minutes, damn.

I start thinking about all that damn dirt. I checked the LCS, no leaks. After it freezes, the fans are taking off like a jet engine. A hard shut down is the answer. What the heck to do? I set a box fan in front of the unit, I write zeros, install the OS, install quark express, adobes cs suite, stat, etc. I think you're getting the picture. I called a repair shop and of course it the motherboard at $1200. This machine runs a full load if the box fan is blowing.
I ran AHT, TechTool Pro, and had Apple run ASD, all systems check out.

These machines run 9 fans, dust magnets. If that's not enough, they have an LCS that you must keep an eye on. Remove the plastic pin by pushing from the bottom, cut off the thin plastic with exacto, remove pin completely and slide G5 panel to left. JB weld a nut inside the panel and put a screw where pin was. Do not replace, it's just a hassle.

Remove everything from the machine and wash the boards only in warm soapy water, that's what the pro do and charge you for a new one. The trick is, dry, dry, dry; do not put even a damp board back in. Air, hair dryer low heat, more air, and 24 hours in front of a box fan. There's that box fan again. Do not wash your drives, CPU's, or ram. Do wash the ambient air sensor board behind the speaker fan assembly, the logic board, and even your video card. Yipes, sounds scary, this guy is crazy; as long as it is COMPLETELY dry, it will work. Ambient Air Sensor Board, hmm... Do you think it might get dirty sitting right in behind the grill in front below your optical drive?, I wonder.

While your at it, rebuild your LCS for pennies. Also, don't forget the thermal paste that has been washed off the processors heatsinks. In fact, before washing, take a look to see
how much the pros used. Too much and ouch, too little and ouch, the pads are
not as effective. Look for paste that has no break in period.

Assemble and good as new; next time, don't let it get so dirty or just run your box fan if the screen keeps freezing, it's the caveman's way to check, but it works, happy hunting.

Trdinput

Back to reality, do not let these repair shops dig you for $1200 for something you don't need

Trdinput
Jul 9, 2011, 02:44 AM
Is there a test for the Power Supply, downloadable, or some Apple Diagnostic
test?

I took a g4 and put a 1.6 sonnet CPU, updated the firmware, put in a new video card, and a Pioneer SuperDrive. This machine blows a g5 out of the water and is running10.5.8. Harry at yourmacstore.com knows his stuff and will set you up. Once again, it's far more dependable than the G5 running the same OS and it runs cooler with the extra fan included on the Sonnet, a whisper quiet machine. Send me your G4s, I prefer them.

Good hunting,
Trdinput

What a pity, those g5's are grate machines if they work, mine has had it's share of problems too (freezing and ramping the fans up to full speed mostly) but has always come back

:eek: I just purchased a G5 ppc 2.7 dual with 10.5.8 installed. The case is absolutely perfect, it came in original box, the OS and original manual was included as well. I am thinking " what a deal, I only paid $301 including shipping. I find out by opening that it is full of dirt and nicotine. I removed an 8 oz dry measure of dirt and the nico was disgusting. After 4 hours of compressed air, filled an extra dry portable bottle to do so at 90psi. Here comes the moment of truth, beautiful tone and happy Mac, bitchen! With 5 minutes, I get a kernel panic, damn! Oh I replaced the half double A.

I contacted the seller and talked him into giving me the original OS 10.5.8, after all, that's what he had installed. I can't believe it, he agreed to do it. While waiting for USPS, I order a 1.5 ter and fresh ram. I install it all and reset the pram and smu. The screen freezes while finishing the install, damn, I have to write zeros now. The screen freezes after 20 minutes, damn.

I start thinking about all that damn dirt. I checked the LCS, no leaks. After it freezes, the fans are taking off like a jet engine. A hard shut down is the answer. What the heck to do? I set a box fan in front of the unit, I write zeros, install the OS, install quark express, adobes cs suite, stat, etc. I think you're getting the picture. I called a repair shop and of course it the motherboard at $1200. This machine runs a full load if the box fan is blowing.
I ran AHT, TechTool Pro, and had Apple run ASD, all systems check out.

These machines run 9 fans, dust magnets. If that's not enough, they have an LCS that you must keep an eye on. Remove the plastic pin by pushing from the bottom, cut off the thin plastic with exacto, remove pin completely and slide G5 panel to left. JB weld a nut inside the panel and put a screw where pin was. Do not replace, it's just a hassle.

Remove everything from the machine and wash the boards only in warm soapy water, that's what the pro do and charge you for a new one. The trick is, dry, dry, dry; do not put even a damp board back in. Air, hair dryer low heat, more air, and 24 hours in front of a box fan. There's that box fan again. Do not wash your drives, CPU's, or ram. Do wash the ambient air sensor board behind the speaker fan assembly, the logic board, and even your video card. Yipes, sounds scary, this guy is crazy; as long as it is COMPLETELY dry, it will work. Ambient Air Sensor Board, hmm... Do you think it might get dirty sitting right in behind the grill in front below your optical drive?, I wonder.

While your at it, rebuild your LCS for pennies. Also, don't forget the thermal paste that has been washed off the processors heatsinks. In fact, before washing, take a look to see
how much the pros used. Too much and ouch, too little and ouch, the pads are
not as effective. Look for paste that has no break in period.

Assemble and good as new; next time, don't let it get so dirty or just run your box fan if the screen keeps freezing, it's the caveman's way to check, but it works, happy hunting.

Trdinput

Back to reality, do not let these repair shops dig you for $1200 for something you don't need

burnout8488
Jul 9, 2011, 02:48 AM
"Tips for preventing a G5 crash?"

Don't turn it on :D:D:D

Tucom
Jul 9, 2011, 06:43 AM
LOL at the seemingly premature "G5's suck vs. G4's or just are problematic".

G5's, esp. the Dual Cores, will easily hands down beat the G4's, far from "blowing them out of the water." Oh and, yeah, a couple of bad problems and they all must be problematic :rolleyes:

Ok, no diss. intended, but admittedly I think though the earlier 2004 G5's were more problem prone, there are far more working machines than non working, and to gut the machine I think would be drop dead insane, right?


If anything, SEND IT TO ME! lol, I could even pay for shipping, but to gut it? Do you key classic cars, too? ;) I mean you could gut it and sell the parts actually for a very good price, just trashing them would be ofcourse insanity, no?


Anyways, G5's over G4's *BY FAR* any day, but/and honestly I'd only buy the last 2005 models ever made, the newer, better designed and more reliable *dual CORE* models (including the Quad) vs. the *dual PROCESSOR* models.


G5's are beastly machines and still have plenty of life in 'em IMO.

Nameci
Jul 9, 2011, 08:53 AM
I have been around fixing all kinds of stuff. And the best way to deal with it is patience, find the root cause, deal with it, and you will be happy in the end once you find the cause and fix it.

Whining will not do us any good.

Theoritically, crashing can be caused by almost anything, like bad ram, bad disk, bad logic board, bad cpu, bad sensor, etc. Best thing to do is to isolate it. There is no fool proof steps in trouble shooting. It all boils down to the knowledge of the person doing it. Research more and don't give up.

There are no crappy or ****** machines, only crappy and ****** owners.

burnout8488
Jul 9, 2011, 12:18 PM
I agree. Now that G5's are getting older and older, they're getting more and more like old British cars. They need that little bit of TLC once every few weeks, and an owner that knows a lot about them. Once you keep them up, they're great machines.

Trdinput
Jul 11, 2011, 12:37 AM
I agree. Now that G5's are getting older and older, they're getting more and more like old British cars. They need that little bit of TLC once every few weeks, and an owner that knows a lot about them. Once you keep them up, they're great machines.

If you had a classic car, you would not key it. If the engine didn't work, you might rebuild the original engine.

I worked in printing for 25 years, 20 years ago, I was introduced to Macs and eventually bought their first ppc that had 60 or 65 ghz speed, my cousin has that machine and uses it as a word processor, it still works with zero problems.

In 1999, I bought a g4 with 400 MHz speed. About 2 years ago, I replaced the CPU with a 1.6ghz sonnet, put in a pioneer SuperDrive, a new video card, (ati radeon something), updated the firmware, and installed 10.5.8. This machine has never had a problem, I just bumped it up a bit.

As for my g4 blowing my g5 out of the water, it does. I have never had the screen freeze or a kernel panic in the 12 years I have owned it. Furthermore, it just a workhorse running the exact same software and OS without a single problem; in fact, It runs cooler than it ever has.

I am positive that I will isolate the problem with the g5 and be extremely happy with it. You can bet that I'll check the lcs twice a month, it just makes sense. My g4 requires a minor dry air blow every 6 months, I'm just saying.
Harley or Honda, it depends on your preference, I own both and the Honda just runs.

Trdinput

Nameci
Jul 11, 2011, 12:54 AM
You know what sometimes it just boils down to the end user. Computers are not that hard to maintain. Most maintenance you could do is blow away dust that is accumulating... :)

Tucom
Jul 11, 2011, 05:41 AM
You know what sometimes it just boils down to the end user. Computers are not that hard to maintain. Most maintenance you could do is blow away dust that is accumulating... :)

I traded some guy a G5 for a Xbox 360 and PS3 controller..no joke.

It wasn't booting and went through a flood, guy said it booted after the flood, but lately wouldn't work at all. *COMPLETELY* rebuilt it including -

Taking out ALL components from the case, including MotherBoard and PSU

Reseating the G5 processors.

Cleaning out all dust from case.


Put it back together, and booted fine.

It was a task, but it really is like working on what I'd imagine a top end, well built car would be like or just a finely built piece of machinery. As in, it was a task but enjoyable due to the build quality, and ofcourse, reseating the processors I've read is the only way to get the G5's booting again, and/or reseating the PCI-X/AGP Pro/PCI-e cards.

I sold the machine back to him for about $200 or so plus an ADC 17" monitor and have kept it touch for further technical business, but the point is that sometimes there is a required amount of effort for positive results, ofcourse sometimes it's only up to the person whether or not they actually put the effort in.

Ofcourse, to get up and do anything harder than clicking the "Power" button is way too much effort, right?:rolleyes: (I'd hope not)

mac.tastic
Jul 11, 2011, 07:44 AM
They were arranged differently before, and it read them properly, but it crashed a lot more.
You found the problem. Replace your ram modules.

kirk wilson
Jul 11, 2011, 02:15 PM
If the RAM tests ok with MEMTEST and also with REMBER, then
either you are saying that both tests are crap. Are they?

kirk wilson
Jul 11, 2011, 02:20 PM
I have returned to this problem, so I could document it carefully
and find the cause. This is long, but it's laid out in order of events
over the last 2 weeks: (I felt it was better than whining)

So, if anyone feels like being a "sleuth", here it is:


G5 power pc Freezes

Symptom:
screen freeze

Frequency of Freeze-ups:
20 minutes to 2 hours of use

Kinds of freezes:
screen freeze---
mouse and keyboard freezes up, machine must be re-started
with power button

If iTunes was playing, it will go into an endless sound-loop

Computer re-starts quickly and functions normally.
Freeze-ups are not noted in the Console or in Crash report, only force-quits and re-starts. The clock freezes also.
In the Console, it's like it never happened.

programs used during freeze:
Safari or Firefox

Can I re-create the freeze?
yes.. by using the mouse and opening up Safari or Firefox, and having an Ethernet connection


When does it NOT freeze up?
When there is NO Ethernet cable hooked up...
(One night I ran Firefox all night, with ethernet dissconnected... and it did not freeze until 7 hours later when I plugged in the ethernet cable, and used the mouse.)
I attempted to use Proxies; but the computer still froze up.
I attempted to use Firefox's No Scripts, but there were still freezes.

So this is a Java problem?.... crashing the browser, which brings down the whole system?
Or, is this a Hardware Problem?


RAM:
3 gigs: 2 one-gig sticks
2 512mb sticks

RAM arrangement:
512-1MB-1MB-512 (as per Apple diagrams)_

HD size:
Maxtor 80 gig, about 20 gigs free
(also have a Maxtor 250 gig HD, 230 gigs free; I am
alternating between the two, to isolate the problem)


System:
HD 1: Mac OSX 10.4.11
cloned from Mac Mini G4

HD 2: MAC OSX 10.4.11 fresh install, from System Install Disc


-Computer has a Mac Refurbished tag and number
-Computer was known to be fully functional before
-Computer was shipped to me in original box; no apparent damage.


THE FOLLOWING STEPS TAKEN HAVE SOME EFFECT ON THE FREEZES.... each step has improved things slightly. But later
the problem comes back again....

-------------------------
I found the RAM incorrectly arranged; I re-arranged it as per Apple diagrams. It helped stop the kernel panics but not the freezes in Firefox
or Safari.

I ran the machine with 2 pairs each, to rule out one of the pairs; only when arranged in the wrong order did the
computer not completely read them. In the right order, they all read ok.
I have tested them four times.

I replaced the PRAM battery with a new one

I reset the PRAM, NVRAM, PMU, etc

I switched out the older 250 gig HD for an 80 gig HD with a cloned OSX 10.4.11 (from my G4.)

I wiped the 250 gig HD and re-installed OSX 10.4.11 via the Apple system install disk, and ran days of
system updates. This didn't eliminate the freezes at all; either HD operates beautifully until it freezes.

The cloned HD, and the 'new' HD operate exactly the same.

I "repaired disk permissions" numerous times from Disk Utility, and from the Apple Install Disk

I installed "COCKTAIL", "APPLEJACK", and "MEMTEST", and ran all the tests

I removed my wireless mouse and replaced it with a
standard Apple Mouse

I removed the keyboard and used a different Apple keyboard

I used a different USB port for the keyboard/mouse

I checked all fans
(the fans run normally and do not go into turbo mode)

I checked for dust inside; it appears very clean

I have cleaned the RAM contacts with rubbing Alcohol and re-seated the cards

I removed the Ethernet cable during a crash, no effect, the machine stayed frozen (had to restart)

I ran 'fsck' in single-user mode, twice, and no problems reported.

I installed and ran Rember, to further test the RAM.

No hardware test showed any problems; permissions were occasionally off, but then were fixed.
No bad files were found.

After 3 crashes, I placed a small bowl of ice cubes inside the computer (yes, that is right)... next to the
Graphics Card. The computer still froze in about twenty minutes. Inside temp was cool enough.

I have used the computer for several hours, with iTunes, Safari (but NO ethernet connection), DVD movie playing,
and Activity Window open. No freezes or crashes. Heavy mouse/keyboard usage. Also left open iMovie and Garage Band.
Watched Activity Monitor; processor #2 constantly ran higher than #1 but never peaked.

I unplugged computer and moved it to a desk with an Ethernet Connection, hooked it up, logged onto the Internet, and it froze immediately.

I Repaired Disk Permissions with Apple Install Disk again, ran Cocktail again to clean out all prefs and permissions.

In Safari, I "disabled Runaway Java Script Timer" and "Site Specific Hacks"
I also selected Proxy settings in the System Prefs.

This worked for an hour, until a large kernel panic occurred. So I removed the Proxy preference and re-enabled Javascripts.

Last kernel event (not freeze) involved something called "Apple Onboard Audio/Platform Interface/cpp" and "Apple Topaz Plug in" in the Console log..
a search of these things in the computer brings up nothing. An online search brings up nothing. I'd delete them if I could find them.
It is not a plug-in (despite it also being called AppleOnboardAudio/Apple Topaz Plug-in); I cannot find either of these
inside the computer in any Library or Pref file.

I suspect the Ethernet connection, or a JAVA problem. We are continuing to run the unit in Firefox with JAVA disabled,
to see how long it can go without freezing up. It will run a long time, until someone operates a mouse.

Activity Monitor is open, and window shows MODERATE processor usage (no peaks) leading up to a freeze.

Again, these freezes can be replicated by opening Safari or Firefox and hooking up the Ethernet, and enabling JAVA, and moving the mouse
or typing on a keyboard. Again, the whole computer must be shut down using the power button. All work is lost.


Online forums suggest the Graphics Card, the Processors, the Motherboard, the Power Supply,
bad capacitors, or something with Quartz Extreme. While JAVA is always problematic, reports of total lock-up because of Java
or Javascripts are hard to find. Safari or Firefox doesn't just quit; the whole computer quits.

Graphics Card is GeForce Fx 5200, and is Quartz-compliant
It has been removed and re-seated

There is no current update to Adobe Flash past 10.1 for PPC computers, only for Intel computers.

If this is a hardware issue, then why can the computer be run for 12 hours or more, with many heavy programs open at once?

We have tried 2 different Ethernet connections... one with DSL Ethernet, and now with Cable Internet. There is no difference
in the frequency of the crashes.

Downloads, and tests can be run for hours without any freeze-ups.

Computer WILL freeze up in Safe Mode.


I have removed the mouse from the keyboard and plugged it into the front port on the computer, by itself
I will try a third keyboard also, to see if there is a problem with the mouse/keyboard combination.



LAST WORK DONE:
I removed both HDs and returned the original 250 gig HD to the machine. I re-installed the system AGAIN with the original Install Disk
(OSX 10.2) and then ran the 10.4 Upgrade Disk, and then ran the online upgrades to 10.4.11 and for Safari and for Java (9 of them).

I installed Adobe Flash and updated Java Releases 6,7,and 8 and maybe 9.
It is a new, clean install of OSX 10.4.11. It's very very clean.

I replaced the PRAM battery again. One day I unplugged the computer and plugged it back in; the time and date were off.
This indicates a dead battery, even though I had just put in a new one a few days earlier.
I installed another new one,
and reset PRAM, NVRAM, PMU again.


Are there any hardware tests that I can do, to see about the Motherboard or the processors, or a bad power supply, or the Graphics Card?
Are there any software tests, other than the ones listed above, that will identify a problem?

I became convinced that this was a Software issue, since it functions normally without being on the internet. But I've run out of software-testing options. And, if a software (JAVA) glitch can bring down this enormous G5,
then maybe it's a hardware problem after all.

(there is never a beachball.. it skips that part, and just freezes)

Razzerman
Jul 11, 2011, 02:28 PM
Wow, that's certainly a thorough list of information - Sherlock would have been through a couple of pipes by now ;)

Sounds simple, but have you tried a brand new ethernet cable? Could it be the one you're using has become damaged somehow, maybe getting bad/crossed wires?

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Ray

mac.tastic
Jul 11, 2011, 11:07 PM
If the RAM tests ok with MEMTEST and also with REMBER, then
either you are saying that both tests are crap. Are they?

Yes. They don't test the memory occupied by active programs and the system. The only way to test the memory is to boot with an ASD and run its tests.

kirk wilson
Jul 12, 2011, 01:23 PM
Well thanks, then! I'll go ahead and buy some more RAM,
which will probably cost the same as paying a service center
to test what I have. (i've been to a few computer repair places in
my area and they have all said no, they don't test RAM).

Appreciate the (now obvious) advice; didn't mean to be snippy.


--

mgartner0622
Jul 12, 2011, 07:21 PM
Well thanks, then! I'll go ahead and buy some more RAM,
which will probably cost the same as paying a service center
to test what I have. (i've been to a few computer repair places in
my area and they have all said no, they don't test RAM).

Appreciate the (now obvious) advice; didn't mean to be snippy.


--

What I'd do is find an old computer that takes the same RAM type as your PowerMac, and borrow the ram from it and see if it works in your machine. I can't remember the minimum requirements for Tiger exactly, I know it's ether 256 or 512MB, but even two 256MB sticks will do you for the time being just to see if it works.It can't be too hard to find another computer that uses the same RAM type, I'm not sure of what type your PowerMac uses, but my old one used DDR2 which is/was pretty commonplace in the PC market.

kirk wilson
Jul 14, 2011, 10:57 PM
"...What I'd do is find an old computer that takes the same RAM type as your PowerMac, and borrow the ram from it and see if it works in your machine. I can't remember the minimum requirements for Tiger exactly, I know it's ether 256 or 512MB..."

Yes, I know; I vaguely remember this was PC 3200 but also that the G5
is very FINICKY and it must the best high-quality and not some
'price-saver' Kingston, and it must have Russian Caviar on top of it, etc..

If I could find a similar machine (this is radically different than a G4)..
well let's just say that the time I spend looking is easily offset by just ordering more RAM..

If i found a G4 locally that performed half as well, I'd probably just buy it!

(at this point I just want to get this gleaming ****** tower to work properly so I can sell it..er, I mean, donate it.. to someone else. Because being a G5,
it WILL fail again.

God I am glad they never put these in the Space Shuttles!

ok, then-
it's off to buy RAM online!

(ps I switched out opposite pairs last night, to run it, and eliminate
one or two sticks.. it locked up with the first pair or with the second pair..
so I'm not sure of the odds that I have four bad sticks at this moment..
but buy more, I must..

nice weekend, everybody!

zen.state
Jul 15, 2011, 01:46 PM
Honestly not trying to be sarcastic but the best way I would prevent a G5 crash is to not use a G5.

If I already had one though the #1 thing I would do (that most never do) is use a voltage stabilizer/conditioner. They go far beyond what a standard surge protector does and helps things like less stable hardware (or any healthy hardware) live longer.

A surge protector will only prevent a giant surge that would kill all your connected hardware in one go. It will not regulate all the spikes and drops in current that happen even on the most well wired buildings.

All those little variances put a lot of wear and tear on electronic hardware over time. I live in a fairly modern building and my voltage stabilizer has to buck and boost the current at least 20 times a day. People not on these stabilizers will see a little blip or flickr on the screen of their Mac when the lights dim for a moment.

I never plug in any of my own hardware without one. They can be found for as low as $30.