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adcx64
Jun 23, 2011, 08:00 PM
Hey Guys,
As you may know from my recent threads, I have been looking to buy a PowerMac G5 sometime in the near future to do some of the things my iBook G4 and eMac can't. I have read that the G5 systems are unreliable, and the G4 systems are real workhorses and super reliable. Recently, I have considered getting a PowerMac G4 MDD, instead of the G5. I am looking at the MDD, since it is the top of the line G4. i can get the G4 for half the price of the G5. The computer will be used for light video editing, photoshop, music, web browsing, and Xcode programming. What do you think I should get?

1. PowerMac G5 DC 2.0GHZ

2. A top of the line MDD.

3. Other PPC Mac???


Bottom line, I am asking for what you guys think would be the best for what I am doing.

Thank You! :apple:



reddrag0n
Jun 23, 2011, 08:11 PM
I would recommend a decent Dual Processor 2.3 GHz G5. Least problematic than the rest. The MDD is ok, but with mine, i had to do several mods to keep the beast cool and quiet. As for the laptops, In my opinion, i would say anywhere from a 1.3 GHz or higher iBook or Powerbook.

zen.state
Jun 23, 2011, 08:27 PM
I personally would never touch anything with a G5 chip. Every single computer Apple ever put a G5 in has issues with either the PSU, capacitors or fried boards.

Just look at all the dead G5 or my G5 won't start threads. Even the odd thread asking about a "loud pop".

If I were you I would get 2x G4 Macs and use their power combined together. If that isn't an option for you then I would honestly recommend a used Mac Pro over a G5. Even just a quad Mac Pro would be a screamer beyond anything you can imagine. The G5 is at the core of some of the sketchiest hardware ever made which in turn caused the death of PowerPC chips at Apple.

People who embrace PowerPC should morally shun the G5 for what it did to our beloved RISC platform.

adcx64
Jun 23, 2011, 09:16 PM
How would I use the G4s in combination?

srf4real
Jun 23, 2011, 09:25 PM
I dunno. Maybe I just got lucky as have many of my fellow associates.. but the G5 dual 2.0 under my desk is almost eight years old and runs like new. I did replace the power supply about three years ago, $150. Replaced original hdd with 1TB Seagate barracuda 7200rpm, $100. Added 4GB crucial ram, $200. But still helluvalot cheaper than a new MP and still a real work horse. What OS can a G4 run I forget? I'm running 10.5.8 which is as stable as Mac OS 10 gets.;)

You could get a machine like mine for around $600, cheaper than the current weak mini.

dontwalkhand
Jun 23, 2011, 10:16 PM
I say go for the G5. I have had a 1.8Ghz Dual in the past, and now a Dual 2.3 with no problems at all with either or.

The problems with G5s you see are most likely from the liquid cooled models...STAY FAR AWAY FROM THOSE! But as long as you get an air cooled G5, it should give you many years of faithful service with very little problems down the road. A lot of the G5 problems are FUD. My G5 is my main computer, and I prefer using it over my MacBook when I am at home. It is a great computer. I throw videos into Final Cut Express 4 with no issues at all, and it is perfect even with iMovie 08. Don't be afraid to go for the G5.

That being said, the MDD G4 is not a bad machine at all, and I have always admired their looks! I have only used MDDs at school with FCP, and they work just fine, and I was still able to edit HD video on the G4...I am sure you will be ok still with a G4 for at least a couple years.

thejadedmonkey
Jun 23, 2011, 10:21 PM
I think it was the single core 1.8ghz G5 that had the most problems out of all of them... so stay far, far away from it.

And have you thought of picking up one of the core duo mini's or original core 2 duo mini's? They're about the same speed as a G5, but slightly more compatable with current software.

reddrag0n
Jun 24, 2011, 12:51 AM
The G5 i have is a DP 2.5 GHz which i am currently in the middle of converting from water to air cooling.

I have also repaired a few G5's and the most that was wrong with them were a few dead fans.

So i would say if you want a G5, the best one to get would be the AGP 2.3 GHz version since they were the least of the models to have issues.

Here are some stats on the G5's that were problematic.

A = 0-6%, B = 7-12%, C = 13-18%, D = 19-24%, and F = 25% or higher

Power Macintosh G5 (2003)
G5/1.6 single (June 2003), D- (24%, logicboard, hard drive)
G5/1.8 single (June 2003), D+ (19%, logicboard, video card)
G5/2.0 dual (June 2003), F (32%, video card, logicboard)

Power Macintosh G5 (June 2004)
G5/1.8 dual (June 2004), D+ (19%, logicboard, optical drive)
G5/2.0 dual (June 2004), C- (17%, logicboard, hard or optical drive)
G5/2.5 dual (June 2004), F (26%, logicboard, hard drive)

Power Macintosh G5/1.8 Single
G5/1.8 single (Oct. 2004), D+ (19%, hard drive, logicboard)

Power Macintosh G5 (April 2005)
G5/2.3 dual (April 2005), B- (11%, logicboard, power supply)
G5/2.7 dual (April 2005), D (22%, logicboard, power supply)

Power Macintosh G5 Dual
G5/2.0 dual-core (Oct. 2005), C- (18%, power supply, logicboard)
G5/2.3 dual-core (Oct. 2005), C- (18%, power supply, logicboard or optical drive)

Power Macintosh G5 Quad
G5/2.5 quad-core (Oct. 2005), C- (17%, logicboard, power supply)

Note that these stats don't include the LCS failures.

Bloodstar
Jun 24, 2011, 01:07 AM
If you do opt for a G4, make sure you get a Core Image-capable video card! You will likely need to flash it and tape pins if you go for a PC card. This isn't as large an issue if you run Tiger, but a CI-capable video card will alleviate the processor of handling some of those tasks, and thus the system will feel quicker.

Honestly, I'd try to get an early Mac Pro. If it must be PPC, though, or that's too much... I've had decent luck with a dual 1.8 G5.

DesmoPilot
Jun 24, 2011, 01:16 AM
Go for a first gen Mac Pro imo, around here they can be had for about the same price as a sure-to-be-problematic G5.

MacHamster68
Jun 24, 2011, 02:59 AM
go for the least problematic , and most underrated Mac of all time
the eMac G4 1.42, the last build model of the eMac's, sadly apple discontinued the eMac line , i have 4 of them 2 of them are the very last apple shipped in 2006 after the intel transition :( , comes with superdrive,airport express,ati 9600 (64gb vram) , it can run a second display (screen spannning or mirror) and can be safely and stable overclocked to 1.8 ghz
cost next to nothing now



the eMac 1.42 can take 2 GB ram

zen.state
Jun 24, 2011, 07:40 AM
How would I use the G4s in combination?

Simply by using them in combination and splitting tasks between them. Two computers in this setup make each other faster because one doesn't have to do it all.

Connect them via gigabit ethernet and use VNC to control the 2nd one. That way by running 1 VNC app on your main system you can then run multiple apps on the 2nd and it won't slow down the main one at all. This also prevents the need for a second screen or a KVM.

If you decide to go this route I will happily help you further. This is something I have been doing and developing/evolving for a good 7-8 years.

mrkramer
Jun 24, 2011, 07:53 AM
go for the least problematic , and most underrated Mac of all time
the eMac G4 1.42, the last build model of the eMac's, sadly apple discontinued the eMac line , i have 4 of them 2 of them are the very last apple shipped in 2006 after the intel transition :( , comes with superdrive,airport express,ati 9600 , it can run a second display (screen spannning or mirror) and can be safely and stable overclocked to 1.8 ghz
cost next to nothing now

I'd put in another vote for the eMac, used to have one and it worked great. I still regret selling it a little bit, but the 12" PowerBook that replaced it was cool.

But is there a reason why you need a PPC computer I like seeing them put to use and all, but you said you are going to do some Xcode programming so unless you are coding for older hardware you probably want an intel machine for testing and running the latest version of Xcode.

InuNacho
Jun 24, 2011, 10:14 AM
Power Macintosh G5 (April 2005)
G5/2.3 dual (April 2005), B- (11%, logicboard, power supply)


Playing PPC games on one of those would be great.

cocacolakid
Jun 24, 2011, 02:50 PM
go for the least problematic , and most underrated Mac of all time
the eMac G4 1.42, the last build model of the eMac's, sadly apple discontinued the eMac line , i have 4 of them 2 of them are the very last apple shipped in 2006 after the intel transition :( , comes with superdrive,airport express,ati 9600 (64gb vram) , it can run a second display (screen spannning or mirror) and can be safely and stable overclocked to 1.8 ghz
cost next to nothing now



the eMac 1.42 can take 2 GB ram

OP already has an eMac, as his first post says.

I think bang for the least bucks, a dual 1.42 MDD G4 is the best deal, which you can often find for $100 or less, or $150 or so shipped on eBay. The G5's have a million problems with them. Of course there are many out there that have worked faithfully, but the G5 Power Macs have the most problems of any Apple model ever made, and the G5 iMacs also have a million problems.

The G4's on the other hand are solid as a rock, and they are dirt cheap.

That said, the "light video editing" you talked about using it for, what type of resolutions are we talking about? HD? Ask Zen State about editing video on his G4's, I have a G4 (actually a few now) but never edit any video.

SuperJudge
Jun 24, 2011, 03:10 PM
Echoing the suggestion for a MDD G4. I'm thinking about getting a dual 1.42 to replace my last-gen G5 if it goes down for the count. The G4s are built like tanks (my dual-800 Quicksilver once had an uptime of nearly two years) and I am a huge fan of that case design.

The air-cooled G5s are great for what they are, but I wouldn't recommend paying much money for one. If you can get one as part of a trade, I'd go that route.

chrismacguy
Jun 24, 2011, 04:37 PM
Echoing the suggestion for a MDD G4. I'm thinking about getting a dual 1.42 to replace my last-gen G5 if it goes down for the count. The G4s are built like tanks (my dual-800 Quicksilver once had an uptime of nearly two years) and I am a huge fan of that case design.

The air-cooled G5s are great for what they are, but I wouldn't recommend paying much money for one. If you can get one as part of a trade, I'd go that route.

Don't get an MDD if you like the quiet life. My Dual 867 MDD is fine in normal use, but as soon as I do video editing (PAL DV and a small amount of 720p on that system, but for HD it really begins to struggle) or audio editing on it and the fans spin up it is incredibly loud. Their not called WindTunnels for nothing (Its about 8 times the noise level of my AGP at least).

For video editing the G5 although a lot less reliable is a lot faster, but for the cost of a decent high-end G5 you can get an Intel Mac Pro 1,1 , which while not PowerPC, is as powerful as a G5 without the boatload of problems and can easily handle HD Video and current software, and XCode 4, which is a massive jump, but better than XCode 3 in my opinion from a getting things done perspective, but thats just me.

adcx64
Jun 24, 2011, 05:27 PM
thanks for all the great responces. eBay has MDD's for really great prices, so good, that I can buy an ACD with it, for the price of the G5! I will buy this computer sometime in the next month or so. Thanks Guys! :D

InuNacho
Jun 24, 2011, 06:11 PM
Check Craigslist before ebay.
$50 1.25 G4 (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sys/2457968114.html)

zen.state
Jun 24, 2011, 06:15 PM
Check Craigslist before ebay.
$50 1.25 G4 (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sys/2457968114.html)

The thing doesn't boot..

Senseless much?

chrismacguy
Jun 24, 2011, 06:19 PM
The thing doesn't boot..

Senseless much?

Very senseless given I have seen fully functioning Dual 867s/Dual 1.0s go for about $60, occasionally less, both of which would outperform a dead 1.25 :p and be cheaper as well (since getting the dead one to work might double its price ie you might waste $50 entirely).

zen.state
Jun 24, 2011, 06:22 PM
Very senseless given I have seen fully functioning Dual 867s/Dual 1.0s go for about $60, occasionally less, both of which would outperform a dead 1.25 :p and be cheaper as well (since getting the dead one to work might double its price ie you might waste $50 entirely).

I never denied you can get the odd one super cheap. My point is that they gave a dead part Mac as an example for someone who clearly wants one that functions.

In 2006 I bought a 350MHz B&W G3 on ebay for $20. A functional one..

chrismacguy
Jun 24, 2011, 06:41 PM
I never denied you can get the odd one super cheap. My point is that they gave a dead part Mac as an example for someone who clearly wants one that functions.

In 2006 I bought a 350MHz B&W G3 on ebay for $20. A functional one..

I was agreeing with you, and pointing out that he shouldve found a better example given he craigslisted it and seemed to find the only broken MDD on offer for that price..

zen.state
Jun 24, 2011, 06:44 PM
I was agreeing with you, and pointing out that he shouldve found a better example given he craigslisted it and seemed to find the only broken MDD on offer for that price..

I mistook your first line for sarcasm. :)

MacHamster68
Jun 24, 2011, 06:47 PM
OP already has an eMac, as his first post says

yes i did read that , but the OP said only he got a eMac (usb 2.0 ) and there are 3 of them the 1.0ghz , tha 1.25ghz both with the ati 9200 (32mb vram)
and the 1.42ghz with the ati 9600 (64 vram )

he also said what the computer will be used for

The computer will be used for light video editing, photoshop, music, web browsing, and Xcode programming.
and for his usage of light video editing the1.42 with ati 9600 with 64mb vram is better suited definitely the the other 2 eMac usb 2.0 models
as i know it i run the full AVID suit on 2 of my eMac 1.42's without trouble , sure a modern 2011 iMac i7 will beat them in every aspect , but that does not mean they would be useless for the task

so i cant see anything here listed that a eMac 1.42ghz with 2gb ram and the ati 9600 could not manage even without overclocking

another choice would be a quicksilver upgraded with a freescale 1.8GHz G4 7448 which will definitely even keep up with most G5's and will certainly beat them in reliability , as i got one of them too with the rare 2.0ghz version of that processor (especially in europe this one is extremely rare ) and it could in most cases even keep up with my iMac core duo 1.83 ghz , ok i own a G5 dual core 2.3 too

but all that said i am absolute convinced the eMac 1.42 ghz offers the most bang for the bug

chrismacguy
Jun 24, 2011, 06:47 PM
I mistook your first line for sarcasm. :)

Im not that inventive at 1am UK time xD

yes i did read that , but the OP said only he got a eMac (usb 2.0 ) and there are 3 of them the 1.0ghz , tha 1.25ghz both with the ati 9200 (32mb vram)
and the 1.42ghz with the ati 9600 (64 vram )

he also said what the computer will be used for


and for his usage of light video editing the1.42 with ati 9600 with 64mb vram is better suited definitely
as i know it i run the full AVID suit on 2 of mine without trouble or hickups

so i cant see anything here listed that a eMac 1.42ghz with 2gb ram and the ati 9600 could not manage even without overclocking

For any form of video editing, I would recommend against an eMac, even the last gen, just as a cheaper MDD will get the job done "Just as well" (A Dual 867/1Ghz MDD will do as good a job as a 1.42 eMac, and provides room for expansion should the OP want to do more complex video editing by adding used PCI Video Input cards, which can be had used very cheaply nowadays).

zen.state
Jun 24, 2011, 06:58 PM
I am not a fan at all of all in one computers but I do have a soft spot for the emac. To me it's very aesthetic and balanced.

Problem is that is the display goes then you're basically stuff with a useless computer. Does anyone know if you can use an external display only on it? Meaning in the same sense of how you dock a laptop at a desk and close it.

chrismacguy
Jun 24, 2011, 07:00 PM
I am not a fan at all of all in one computers but I do have a soft spot for the emac. To me it's very aesthetic and balanced.

Problem is that is the display goes then you're basically stuff with a useless computer. Does anyone know if you can use an external display only on it? Meaning in the same sense of how you dock a laptop at a desk and close it.

If the display goes but the video circuitry is fine, the external display port should work just fine as a "Display Mirror" of the internal display, but I think you have to have it connected internally to work, as in the iMac G3, but Im not totally sure of that.

adcx64
Jun 24, 2011, 07:00 PM
I am not a fan at all of all in one computers but I do have a soft spot for the emac. To me it's very aesthetic and balanced.

Problem is that is the display goes then you're basically stuff with a useless computer. Does anyone know if you can use an external display only on it? Meaning in the same sense of how you dock a laptop at a desk and close it.

The emac only supports display mirroring. So, if the display dies, you can use an external one. Though, through open firmware modifications, you can make it extend the display. This was Apple's way of making users who want extended desktops buy higher end systems.

840quadra
Jun 24, 2011, 07:01 PM
I will cast my vote for a Dual 2.0 G5. The PowerPC 970FX G5 (codename Niagra) has had a great track record at my previous job's graphics department. I would avoid the Liquid cooled (as others have said) 2.5 models of this range, however the Dual 2.0 was really a good system.

They actually have been more reliable than early Mac Pro computers within that division. Many of them were plagued with logic board, and processor failures. Many of the G5 systems were resold to people within the company, and are still used in many of their homes as primary Macs.

I really miss mine, I want to get one to add back to my personal collection.

zen.state
Jun 24, 2011, 07:08 PM
If the display goes but the video circuitry is fine, the external display port should work just fine as a "Display Mirror" of the internal display, but I think you have to have it connected internally to work, as in the iMac G3, but Im not totally sure of that.

The mini-VGA on the side connection panel wouldn't work as a sole display? I bet a master of Apple firmware could make that happen.

Man I am typing like I'm drunk. Writing stuff instead of stuck. haha

MacHamster68
Jun 24, 2011, 07:16 PM
I am not a fan at all of all in one computers but I do have a soft spot for the emac. To me it's very aesthetic and balanced.

Problem is that is the display goes then you're basically stuff with a useless computer. Does anyone know if you can use an external display only on it? Meaning in the same sense of how you dock a laptop at a desk and close it.


yes the eMac can work with external dispaly only as long as the GPU still works
see headless eMac mod's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1IU-QGnftE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z7Z1MvCIQg

zen.state
Jun 24, 2011, 07:23 PM
yes the eMac can work with external dispaly only as long as the GPU still works
see headless eMac mod's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z7Z1MvCIQg

If the CRT was dead it would be great to remove it and add much better cooling. Even add some clear plexiglass over the empty display hole with a custom fan mount for exhaust. If you used A good LED fan it could also double as a cool lamp.

The extra cooling would make over-clocking them an even better experience. Seems the 800MHz is over-clocked the most for some reason.

MacHamster68
Jun 24, 2011, 07:29 PM
The emac only supports display mirroring. So, if the display dies, you can use an external one. Though, through open firmware modifications, you can make it extend the display. This was Apple's way of making users who want extended desktops buy higher end systems.

thats the party piece of the eMac ...screen spanning doctor
and if i have to recommend a ideal monitor ..samsung sync master 760BF 17" hight adjustable and tilt and swivel and landscape and portrait turnable ,supports the same resolution as the eMac 1280x960 and its white too yes its dvi in but suports analogue input so just a vga to dvi adapter needed

840quadra
Jun 24, 2011, 07:46 PM
Someone creative could also install an LCD display within the black hole, essentially converting to newer / lower power display technology.

MacHamster68
Jun 24, 2011, 07:48 PM
If the CRT was dead it would be great to remove it and add much better cooling. Even add some clear plexiglass over the empty display hole with a custom fan mount for exhaust. If you used A good LED fan it could also double as a cool lamp.

The extra cooling would make over-clocking them an even better experience. Seems the 800MHz is over-clocked the most for some reason.

the eMac 1.42 can safely be overclocked to 1.8ghz without added cooling , the original fan and heapipe are over-engineered especially the fan ,it had to get rid of all the heat from the crt too so apple fitted a massive fan to make sure the eMac stays cool even in the middle of death valley in the summer at full workload
and because of that i tried it you can add a zalman fan controller and get the eMac even more quiet as a iMac G5 without any risk of overheating and on one occasion ..sorry eMac , i forgot to switch the fan controller on and the eMac worked for full 3 hours without fan at all and its still working (ok now with fan again )
thats why i always say they are bulletproof and withstand any kind of abuse
but sadly i guess that was the reason apple had to discontinue them..they never did build again such reliable workhorses as the eMac 1.42's :(

adcx64
Jun 24, 2011, 11:42 PM
Someone creative could also install an LCD display within the black hole, essentially converting to newer / lower power display technology.

It has been done! Ive seen somebody on YouTube do it. I'll have to post links if I can find them.

EDIT: not YouTube, but I did find this.

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/07/emac-lcd-conversion.html

Cox Orange
Jun 25, 2011, 01:36 PM
I have two questions out of personal interest.

Someone (I think MacHamster) brought up the argument, that the better graphics card and bigger VRAM of the eMac 1,42GHz are needed/useful for "light video editing". I heard that video editing and rendering on Macs is totally CPU based and the graphics card gets allmost nothing to do. (I read that somewhere and was happy that artefacts, blocks I experienced on EyeTV250 while importing videos, was not due to the 32MB ATI 9550 in my iBook, but more caused by the A/D-box. I went for a ADVC-300, which now does the job even on my iMac G3, 400MHz without artefacts. That said about importing.

What I am more curious about is, what would be the total system minima for converting DV to h.264 on a PPC-Mac. I read on the apple page, that iMovie HD 5 needs at least a G3 500MHz (nothing said about graphics card), but iMovieHD 6 seems to be more demanding (I did not keep that in mind, since I do only have version 1 (OS9), 3 and HD5. I have a copy of OS 10.5, where HD6/8 should be in, but I like using 10.4 on my ibook more and so am stuck with version 5).

Summing it up: is video editing graphics card dependant? What are the absolute sys. minima for this task, including converting to h.264 (no matter how long it takes. Though I experienced, that I sometimes need to do the converting again, because the files tend to get a bigger bitrate, then I chose. Since I learned some that use mpegstreamclip 1.9.2 have the same problems and others don't, I wondered, whether the CPU-power is guilty of breaking up complex convertings.)

PS: about the Mod. I am sure more of us had the idea to do it (me too with an iMac), but it's interesting to see such a mod done.

chrismacguy
Jun 25, 2011, 01:43 PM
I have two questions out of personal interest.

Someone (I think MacHamster) brought up the argument, that the better graphics card and bigger VRAM of the eMac 1,42GHz are needed/useful for "light video editing". I heard that video editing and rendering on Macs is totally CPU based and the graphics card gets allmost nothing to do. (I read that somewhere and was happy that artefacts, blocks I experienced on EyeTV250 while importing videos, was not due to the 32MB ATI 9550 in my iBook, but more caused by the A/D-box. I went for a ADVC-300, which now does the job even on my iMac G3, 400MHz without artefacts. That said about importing.

What I am more curious about is, what would be the total system minima for converting DV to h.264 on a PPC-Mac. I read on the apple page, that iMovie HD 5 needs at least a G3 500MHz (nothing said about graphics card), but iMovieHD 6 seems to be more demanding (I did not keep that in mind, since I do only have version 1 (OS9), 3 and HD5. I have a copy of OS 10.5, where HD6/8 should be in, but I like using 10.4 on my ibook more and so am stuck with version 5).

Summing it up: is video editing graphics card dependant? What are the absolute sys. minima for this task, including converting to h.264 (no matter how long it takes. Though I experienced, that I sometimes need to do the converting again, because the files tend to get a bigger bitrate, then I chose. Since I learned some that use mpegstreamclip 1.9.2 have the same problems and others don't, I wondered, whether the CPU-power is guilty of breaking up complex convertings.)

PS: about the Mod. I am sure more of us had the idea to do it (me too with an iMac), but it's interesting to see such a mod done.

Technically if you want to wait for ever, any CPU is technically capable of performing that conversion, but personally I wouldnt want to try it on anything below a Dual G4, just for the time factor as the machines are so cheap. Also, iMovie '06 comes as part of iLife '06 which can be installed on any version of Mac OS from 10.3.9 and up, including on Tiger 10.4.11.

MacHamster68
Jun 25, 2011, 03:19 PM
I have two questions out of personal interest.

Someone (I think MacHamster) brought up the argument, that the better graphics card and bigger VRAM of the eMac 1,42GHz are needed/useful for "light video editing". I heard that video editing and rendering on Macs is totally CPU based and the graphics card gets allmost nothing to do. (I read that somewhere and was happy that artefacts, blocks I experienced on EyeTV250 while importing videos, was not due to the 32MB ATI 9550 in my iBook, but more caused by the A/D-box. I went for a ADVC-300, which now does the job even on my iMac G3, 400MHz without artefacts. That said about importing.

What I am more curious about is, what would be the total system minima for converting DV to h.264 on a PPC-Mac. I read on the apple page, that iMovie HD 5 needs at least a G3 500MHz (nothing said about graphics card), but iMovieHD 6 seems to be more demanding (I did not keep that in mind, since I do only have version 1 (OS9), 3 and HD5. I have a copy of OS 10.5, where HD6/8 should be in, but I like using 10.4 on my ibook more and so am stuck with version 5).

Summing it up: is video editing graphics card dependant? What are the absolute sys. minima for this task, including converting to h.264 (no matter how long it takes. Though I experienced, that I sometimes need to do the converting again, because the files tend to get a bigger bitrate, then I chose. Since I learned some that use mpegstreamclip 1.9.2 have the same problems and others don't, I wondered, whether the CPU-power is guilty of breaking up complex convertings.)

PS: about the Mod. I am sure more of us had the idea to do it (me too with an iMac), but it's interesting to see such a mod done.

i had a eye tv thingy too sorry can't remember which one it was (silver aluminum box dvbt capable ) on my eMac 1.42 while using it as TV and did not experience any kind of artefacts or similar things just perfect tv watching experience and recordings

chrismacguy
Jun 25, 2011, 03:41 PM
i had a eye tv thingy too sorry can't remember which one it was (silver aluminum box dvbt capable ) on my eMac 1.42 while using it as TV and did not experience any kind of artefacts or similar things just perfect tv watching experience and recordings

watching and converting are different beasts though, My PowerBook G4 struggles to convert to h.264 from DV, and it outspecs your eMac (1.67Ghz G4, 1.5GB RAM, Hi-Res model with 128MB VRAM)

zen.state
Jun 25, 2011, 03:46 PM
I have an eyetv 250 which is a tiny aluminium box like MacHamster68 mentions. It has hardware encoding and decoding in it. This means it can run on an older Mac because it doesn't use the CPU very much. The small dongle one has no hardware encode/decode so it is 100% reliant on the CPU.

All the current eyetv tuners are Intel only. The last one to work on PowerPC is the "250 plus" which is an HD capable version of what I have. You can still find them on ebay for around 100.

Cox Orange
Jun 25, 2011, 06:42 PM
Well, I do have the same EyeTV250 box like both of you (unless they did not do minor changes to it and kept the name). I know that it records in a mpeg2 transportstream (which can afterwards be converted to a diverse set of different formats). In my case I have an analogue Satelite-TV-Receiver or my VCR connected to it via SCART.
I have the artefacts, when you see grass moving in the wind or people running (this is also reported from others on the Elgato Forum, who capture NFL games and there the ball in flight causes artefacts).

Actually it is a nice product, but when it comes to those few moments I mentioned, I can see a difference to the image that ADVC-300 produces.

Oh, wait. Mine is named EyeTV250, but shows up as Cynergy something on the screen, but that is also reported as normal in the Elgato Forum.

OK, I will stop here. I did not want to high-jack the thread, I am getting to much off-topic now.

zen.state
Jun 25, 2011, 06:50 PM
Cynergy guts yes.

cocacolakid
Jun 25, 2011, 08:12 PM
It has been done! Ive seen somebody on YouTube do it. I'll have to post links if I can find them.

EDIT: not YouTube, but I did find this.

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/07/emac-lcd-conversion.html

That is a great conversion. If someone were to do that today they should use the opportunity while it is completely dissembled to upgrade to a SSD HD. An LCD and a SSD in an eMac would make for a sweet machine.

adcx64
Jun 25, 2011, 09:38 PM
Damn! :eek:

Looks like it'll be a while longer until I get this PowerMac. Plugged in the iBook charger today and nothin, dead charger. So far I have allotted $65 towards the PowerMac, and now need to spend 30 for the charger!

VanneDC
Jun 26, 2011, 12:27 AM
Id recommend the dual core 2.3 g5 with an fx4500 512mb card in it and around 6gb of ram.
Cheerd

adcx64
Jun 26, 2011, 09:57 PM
I've decided to get a PowerMac G4 MDD.Thanks for all the help guys!

VanneDC
Jun 27, 2011, 12:11 AM
really? mate its a wind tunnel....

unless you have it located externally, you will go deaf. :D

reddrag0n
Jun 27, 2011, 12:42 AM
I have my MDD next to me. Even after 4 fans have been swapped for much quieter ones, even with some of the extensive tasks i put mine through, mine still roars. And that's the PSU fans. As i said, that's even after fans swaps and a PSU swap.

Tomorrow i am getting a scrap G5 to rebuild mine, then i will be working in silence and pure speed.

As for "Wind Tunnel" check some MDD videos on youtube to see what people mean. Sure they are great machines and they will almost beat out a Quicksilver hands down in sheer specs, but the noise will kill you.

Wind Tunnel video one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRWod-qLjbE)

Bloodstar
Jun 27, 2011, 02:19 AM
...I didn't realize most MDDs were that loud. Yikes. Something must've been replaced in mine.

Mine is the loudest machine I own, yes (though compared to my PC it's almost equal as far as I can tell, and the G5s are super quiet), but it's nowhere near that bad.

chrismacguy
Jun 27, 2011, 03:29 AM
...I didn't realize most MDDs were that loud. Yikes. Something must've been replaced in mine.

Mine is the loudest machine I own, yes (though compared to my PC it's almost equal as far as I can tell, and the G5s are super quiet), but it's nowhere near that bad.

Yours must have had the fan replaced, or your just not using it right :p - Mine under light load isn't too bad, however as soon as I do anything CPU intensive, it sounds like its about to take off... I swear I've heard quieter 747s... well maybe not, but its close.

zen.state
Jun 27, 2011, 05:30 AM
really? mate its a wind tunnel....

unless you have it located externally, you will go deaf. :D

True geeks love the sound of a computer. It's part of the experience.

I have owned 2 MDD myself in that past and you are really exaggerating the noise level. It's maybe 35db.

Cox Orange
Jun 27, 2011, 07:28 AM
Id recommend the dual core 2.3 g5 with an fx4500 512mb card in it and around 6gb of ram.
Cheerd
by the way, we've debated that graphics card before (as I recall), the Quadro FX4500 512MB, is the same speed as the flashed Geforce 7800GTX, 512MB. The Quadro is only specialized for CAD and such. The 7800GTX is much cheaper. (just a side note ;)
I've decided to get a PowerMac G4 MDD.Thanks for all the help guys!
about the wind tunnel: there is a firmware update "to improve fan control". I don't know whether it really helps, but here is the link http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1175?viewlocale=en_US
(it is not listed under the other recommended updates http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1395)

There were two PSUs, I think a sony and Liteon (or Acbel?) one, I think the sony was more quiet. (The others have to make sure, whether I am right though). There was a replacement programm, too.

every line had its "personal" bugs. The Quicksilver had a motherboard shielding problem, which caused an audio-popping or hissing in the speakers, when using external audio-equipment. (there is a hint at wikipedia).

But, this can be an argument for buying used Macs in general. Typical problems, that usually occurred in the first 3 years, have a higher chance not being present, when the machine is allready 6+ years old and did not have these specific problems.

zen.state
Jun 27, 2011, 07:54 AM
I have done full fan replacements on at least 7-8 client MDD's in the past. Can be done for as little as maybe $40. That can put the overall noise level below 25db and it's hard for the human ear to hear anything around 22db or lower. To hear the ones I have done this on you actually have to put your ear within 4 inches of the tower. I will gladly help anyone on here replace the fans in an MDD. A bit of extra noise is a ridiculous reason to not buy a computer. It's borderline vain in fact unless you do something with audio that needs absolute silence. People who think like this should maybe stick to laptops. Desktops make noise.. it's just part of what they are.

Recommending G5 towers to people is just silly. Anyone who actually knows the history of Apple machines and reliability wouldn't recommend anything G5 to people. Even the most reliable one (dual 2.3) has a death rate of over 1 in 10 and those numbers are from the first couple years of the G5's era. In other words that 11% would be much higher after all these years. The dual 2GHz numbers from back then were a whopping 32%. Would be at least 50% by now. One of my clients had a lab of 12 dual 2GHz G5's and 7 have bit the dust so far. Some are the logic board and some the PSU. Some both.

If you already have one then enjoy it and get all you can out of it while you can. Please do not try to drag other people into the full on sketchiness that was the G5 and all it's supporting hardware.

This is the issue with advice on forums. Virtually all the advice given is based on personal experience with only your own whatever the advice is on which more often than not equates to misinformation for other people.

reddrag0n
Jun 27, 2011, 08:25 AM
I would have to agree with you zen.state, it is all just the user experience. I myself have used macs ranging from the old Powermac 4400's all the way up to my current MDD. Yes, each one had their follies, and others ran flawlessly.

As for the fan mod and swap, I have done that in mine and yes, it costs around $40. The big kicker to the noise in mine is the fact that I am running a custom modded power supply (Enermax 465W) with 2 - 60 mm fans on it's controller and when it gets warm it wails. The rest of the machine is quiet. I had to add a 5th fan right on top of the cpu heatsink just to keep things under 46 Celsius because without it, it raised up to 58 Celsius on load and the mac started to bog itself down.

The only reason why I am swapping out to a G5 is the fact of the 64 bit processors, more ram capability and dual processors over 2 GHz. I know I could get a first gen Mac Pro, but those right now are way out of my price range and I won't be able to get one for too many months to come.

SuperJudge
Jun 27, 2011, 09:13 AM
This is the issue with advice on forums. Virtually all the advice given is based on personal experience with only your own whatever the advice is on which more often than not equates to misinformation for other people.

Agreed.

As they say, anecdote is not the singular of data. G5s in my experience are touchy at best and completely flaky at worst. If you have one that works, keep it! If you don't have one, don't bother with one if you're going to pay money for it. If you like the look of the case, buy one off of eBay and cram something good inside of it. One of my all time favorite case mods was one where someone took the guts of a Quicksilver and put them inside a G5 case. That was smart thinking, IMO. :cool:

Cox Orange
Jun 27, 2011, 10:40 AM
... Please do not try to drag other people into the full on sketchiness that was the G5 and all it's supporting hardware...
I didn't want to, I just wanted to add, that there is a firmware update as part of the solution and that every model has its model specific known issues (G5 iMacs with dead screens and capacitor bleeding, G3s with dead screen due to defective D/A/V-Board, early ibook G4s with graphics chip that looses itself, when getting warm, ...), which shall be no reason to defend a model line that seems to be more a risk than others.
I heard of someone having 24 Quads (in 2008) in a lab that started leaking almost the same week all together as if they had a time bomb in it and there are others that seem to have more luck, but the reports are getting more and more on xlr8yourmac.com

zen.state
Jun 27, 2011, 10:57 AM
I didn't want to, I just wanted to add, that there is a firmware update as part of the solution and that every model has its model specific known issues (G5 iMacs with dead screens and capacitor bleeding, G3s with dead screen due to defective D/A/V-Board, early ibook G4s with graphics chip that looses itself, when getting warm, ...), which shall be no reason to defend a model line that seems to be more a risk than others.
I heard of someone having 24 Quads (in 2008) in a lab that started leaking almost the same week all together as if they had a time bomb in it and there are others that seem to have more luck, but the reports are getting more and more on xlr8yourmac.com

With the G5 every single tower and iMac model they made has issues. That was certainly nowhere near the case with G3 or G4 Macs.

The PowerMac G4 towers (especially the Sawtooth) are absolute tanks. Mine is over 11 years old now. The manufacture date is March 2000. The PSU and logic board are the only original parts inside mind you but they are very key components in a computers operation. They have never been replaced.

Lets see how many G5 towers are still running in 2014 when the oldest one will turn 11. My guess.. maybe 20%.

yamu
Jun 27, 2011, 11:35 AM
My Mystic (Gigabit Ethernet) G4 just turned 11 years and is still in daily use. Since 11 years this Powermac runs 12-16 hours daily. Sure, i replaced harddisks, upgraded the CPU und Graphics, added USB 2 and RAM and a Combo-Burner, but i never replaced a part because it was faulty. I could bring it back with original components and it would still work.

I often thought about a newer machine, just to be up to date, but except video encoding, everything is still very fast and snappy with its 1 Ghz Sonnet upgrade, i rarely see the beachball. And with a faster machine i can not write faster or move things faster around.... so its still life in the G4, i think.

Bloodstar
Jun 27, 2011, 02:43 PM
If you already have one then enjoy it and get all you can out of it while you can. Please do not try to drag other people into the full on sketchiness that was the G5 and all it's supporting hardware.

This is the issue with advice on forums. Virtually all the advice given is based on personal experience with only your own whatever the advice is on which more often than not equates to misinformation for other people.

Well, if you actually can find a cheap enough G5, I wouldn't call them a bad purchase at all. Especially since you'd still have a nice case and likely a couple extra parts if/when the thing dies. (By cheap enough... I'm guessing cheaper than a top-end G4 machine of any type, be it upgraded Sawtooth or 1.42ghz MDD.) After reading things, though, I don't think I'd really put too much out for one anymore over a G4. If you want to talk cases, though, I actually like the MDD's the most... the biggest downfall is no front/side USB, which is easily fixed by using a hub.

I actually managed to snag my dual 1.8 G5 from my college for a single dollar. No, I'm not lying or exaggerating - this is the exact price I paid for it, and it's working fine! (Again, if it dies... I have a nice 160GB HDD to toss into my PC and a 9600XT to toss into my MDD!)

As mentioned, everyone's experiences will be different - I've picked this up especially from my old iBook thread and the fact that my experience is different from others: Leopard runs excellently for me, though I keep Tiger around just in case. My MDD does feel fairly sluggish compared to my G5, as well, but I'm guessing another gigabyte of RAM and a CI-capable video card would rectify that a good bit. (As much as I want a 1.8ghz G4, too... those are just way too expensive to justify for me.)

cocacolakid
Jun 27, 2011, 05:29 PM
really? mate its a wind tunnel....

unless you have it located externally, you will go deaf. :D

My 1.42 MDD G4 had the original PSU and it was extremely loud, but I swapped it out for the replacement version Apple later offered and it is fine. I don't notice any particularly louder than normal fans. A friend has an HP Microjunk with a fancy video card and the PSU whirs constantly on that one. My MDD is much, much quieter than that.

Macdude2010
Jun 28, 2011, 12:20 PM
I think it was the single core 1.8ghz G5 that had the most problems out of all of them... so stay far, far away from it.

And have you thought of picking up one of the core duo mini's or original core 2 duo mini's? They're about the same speed as a G5, but slightly more compatable with current software.

Actually I think the single 1.8 GHz (2nd gen) was one of the better ones in terms of reliability (after the firmware update), I have one from June 05 and it is still running strong, and if you look on eBay you can see that most of the ones for sale that work are the single core <2GHz.

A 19% fail rate is a little high but the #1 failed part was the hard drive (which no other G5 can say because the #1 failed part on the other ones were the logic board)

Macdude2010
Jun 28, 2011, 12:23 PM
I personally would never touch anything with a G5 chip. Every single computer Apple ever put a G5 in has issues with either the PSU, capacitors or fried boards.

Just look at all the dead G5 or my G5 won't start threads. Even the odd thread asking about a "loud pop".

If I were you I would get 2x G4 Macs and use their power combined together. If that isn't an option for you then I would honestly recommend a used Mac Pro over a G5. Even just a quad Mac Pro would be a screamer beyond anything you can imagine. The G5 is at the core of some of the sketchiest hardware ever made which in turn caused the death of PowerPC chips at Apple.

People who embrace PowerPC should morally shun the G5 for what it did to our beloved RISC platform.

I just looked at whats left of the PowerPC forum and I see more "My PowerMac G4 won't start" then "My G5 won't start"

Only a few of the G5's were good models, but some are good

rdp5008
Jun 28, 2011, 01:06 PM
I have a single 1.6 GHZ G5. I had to replace the logic board but it's been fine since. It is pretty slow even with a new faster HDD, upgraded video card, and max RAM but it does what it needs to do. I use the Macbook for most things now.

Macdude2010
Jun 28, 2011, 01:32 PM
I have a single 1.6 GHZ G5. I had to replace the logic board but it's been fine since. It is pretty slow even with a new faster HDD, upgraded video card, and max RAM but it does what it needs to do. I use the Macbook for most things now.

Well the 1.6GHz model had a VERY HIGH fail rate on it's logic board of 12.1% fail rate

Jethryn Freyman
Jun 28, 2011, 10:53 PM
Don't get a G5, their reliability is appalling (leaking capacitors and the like.) I know because I used to be an Apple technician. Go for an Intel Mac or a G4 Power Mac (Digital Audio model or newer.)

Macdude2010
Jun 29, 2011, 12:28 AM
Don't get a G5, their reliability is appalling (leaking capacitors and the like.) I know because I used to be an Apple technician. Go for an Intel Mac or a G4 Power Mac (Digital Audio model or newer.)

Wasn't the capacitors only the iMac G5?

I think the only re-appering problem on the powermac was the leaking coolant

cocacolakid
Jun 29, 2011, 12:56 AM
Wasn't the capacitors only the iMac G5?

I think the only re-appering problem on the powermac was the leaking coolant

Logicboards were the main problem on Power Mac's, followed by power supplies.

Someone posted this chart earlier, but here's the link again, and remember, these failure rates were when the PM's were relatively new in 2006 and had been on the market for only up to 3 years, depending on the model. You have to think that the failure rate on things like logicboards is likely much higher than these numbers 5 years later... http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-power-mac-g5-prices.html.

The article those numbers come from has more in depth information on G5 PM failures here... http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

On average, in 2006, 23% of G5 Power Mac's failed.

The model with the most failures was the 2.0 Dual at 32%.

The model with the least failures was the 2.3 Dual at 11%.

All of the other models had 17-27% failure rates.

zen.state
Jun 29, 2011, 01:12 AM
Well the 1.6GHz model had a VERY HIGH fail rate on it's logic board of 12.1% fail rate

12% is quite low compared to the first dual 2.0GHz which was at 32% failure. 12 is certainly at the better end of the scale since the most reliable model (dual 2.3) was 11%.

Cox Orange
Jun 29, 2011, 08:01 AM
side note on the G5s and capacitors, I heard it, too, that it were the iMac G5s with bleeding capacitors, but as the 2004 1,8GHz G5 tower is an iMac packed in a tower case, it sounds plausible.
... Someone posted this chart earlier, ... http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-power-mac-g5-prices.html.

The article those numbers come from has more in depth information on G5 PM failures here... http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

I do not want to argue against those of you that banish the G5 towers, but I do want to bring to mind that this was a survey by macintouch. It is common (especially in forums) that you will find those people the most that have a problem and people don't usually "complain" because their machine is working :D This leads to such threads like "is the 2011 iMac reliable, I hear so many complains in the forum".
You would have to know the total number sold by apple and the number of recorded repairs and claimed defects.

I would like to add comments from macintouch readers:
Jason Bracy

You state in your post regarding the G5 cooling leak

"Liquid cooling failures, though dramatic when they occur, appear to be quite rare. Just 28 units out of the entire population had a liquid cooling failure. However, in almost every instance, nearby components were damaged and replaced, making an out-of-warranty leak an expensive proposition."

However, you should note that a NO FAULT out of warranty repair by Apple is a fixed rate no matter how many components are damaged, and the rate is usually similar to the cost of AppleCare. (ie if it is a component failure and not a "spilled coffee on my PowerMac while trying to install more RAM")


Tom Mulhall

I wanted to add this comment to the G5 study (PM Dual 2.0 G5, M9032, Mfg week 39 of '03):
This unit has been run virtually 24/7 since being put in service, has gone through 8 (eight) hurricanes in the past two seasons, has run on generator (really gross genny power, BTW) power for over 14 (fourteen) days total time. It has been protected by a Belkin UPS unit (1500VA w/ AVR and extra battery power) the whole time and had not had a single failure in all that time. I estimate the running hours at over 26,000 currently (the biggest downtime was Hurricane Wilma wiping out everything down here).

All in all, a very respectful performance of this Dual 2.0 G5 unit!

I believe that proper power protection is of utmost importance, as out of everything we see for service, over 80% can be traced to a power anomaly -- we have the worst power in the country in the Keys.

Here is another chart: http://www.fusina.net/G5_coolant_leaks/index-stats.php
Some "nice" coolant pictures: http://nysoyan.free.fr/Eaglefour/PowermacG5.html

Some more stuff to read: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/G5_coolant_leaks.html (the one that talks about having lost 7 out of 20, has come to 17 out of 20 when he posted here http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5684632&postcount=16

Heavertron
Jun 29, 2011, 09:07 AM
In my opinion, the best PPC is the model you can buy most cheaply that is still usable. If you can get an eMac or a G4 very very cheaply, then do it. I just don't recommend spending any serious money on a PPC Mac

Macdude2010
Jun 29, 2011, 10:14 AM
12% is quite low compared to the first dual 2.0GHz which was at 32% failure. 12 is certainly at the better end of the scale since the most reliable model (dual 2.3) was 11%.

That was JUST the logic board

Macdude2010
Jun 29, 2011, 10:21 AM
Logicboards were the main problem on Power Mac's, followed by power supplies.

Someone posted this chart earlier, but here's the link again, and remember, these failure rates were when the PM's were relatively new in 2006 and had been on the market for only up to 3 years, depending on the model. You have to think that the failure rate on things like logicboards is likely much higher than these numbers 5 years later... http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-power-mac-g5-prices.html.

The article those numbers come from has more in depth information on G5 PM failures here... http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

On average, in 2006, 23% of G5 Power Mac's failed.

The model with the most failures was the 2.0 Dual at 32%.

The model with the least failures was the 2.3 Dual at 11%.

All of the other models had 17-27% failure rates.

Again, most people won't complain if there isnt a problem, so these results are not scientific and extremely undiluted.

The G4's also had a number of problems with the PSU, so aside from the leaking capacitors on the iMac G5 I think the G4 is just as reliable as the G5

zen.state
Jun 29, 2011, 10:40 AM
The G4's also had a number of problems with the PSU

Thats entirely vague and inaccurate. Only the MDD (and only 6% of them) had PSU issues. The Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit Eth, Digital Audio and Quicksilver all have very reliable logic boards and PSU's.

Failure rates on the Sawtooth were literally lower than 2%. Thats why I chose one to base my FrankenMac project on. I have even bought two functional spares for any possible part needs in the future. Pre-MDD towers can easily be found for well under 100. I have seen mint Sawtooth's on ebay for $55 US.

adcx64
Jun 29, 2011, 10:43 AM
Thats entirely vague and inaccurate. Only the MDD (and only 6% of them) had PSU issues. The Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit Eth, Digital Audio and Quicksilver all have very reliable logic boards and PSU's.

Failure rates on the Sawtooth were literally lower than 2%. Thats why I chose one to base my FrankenMac project on. I have even bought two functional spares for any possible part needs in the future. Pre-MDD towers can easily be found for well under 100. I have seen mint Sawtooth's on ebay for $55 US.

This is why I chose to get an MDD. they have a relatively low fail rate and are the most powerful of the G4's, im planning on getting a 1.42ghz model.

Macdude2010
Jun 29, 2011, 10:47 AM
I have updated the forum with Macintouch's more accurate (and evened at 100) results
Power Mac G5 1.6GHz 398 50 13%
"old" single 1.8GHz Power Mac G5 767 61 8%*
"new" single 1.8GHz Power Mac G5 157 17 10%
Dual 1.8GHz Power Mac G5 1345 103 8%*
single 2GHz Power Mac G5 77 9 11%
Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 2654 350 13%*
Dual 2.3GHz Power Mac G5 211 4 1%
Dual 2.5GHz Power Mac G5 970 91 9%*
Dual 2.7GHz Power Mac G5 238 8 3%

If you see the highest fail rate is 13%
I had to calculate the ones that were not filled in

For Comparison:
Original iMac G5 17" 2778 501 18% (capacitors)
Original iMac G5 20" 1730 533 31% (capacitors)
New iMac G5 17" 812 100 12%
New iMac G5 20" 589 62 11%

Mac Mini 1.25GHz 803 26 3%
Mac Mini 1.42GHz 902 27 3%

zen.state
Jun 29, 2011, 10:51 AM
This is why I chose to get an MDD. they have a relatively low fail rate and are the most powerful of the G4's, im planning on getting a 1.42ghz model.

The trend I and other MDD owners noticed in an MDD dedicated blog/community back in 07 is that the single 1.25GHz was the biggest one to have the PSU fail.

All the failures I have heard of are mostly single 1.25 models and the odd dual 867MHz model. Can't even recall hearing about other models and I did a lot of research back then. Also, back in 2007 a lot more people still used MDD's so the data back then was more accurate.

adcx64
Jun 29, 2011, 10:55 AM
The trend I and other MDD owners noticed in an MDD dedicated blog/community back in 07 is that the single 1.25GHz was the biggest one to have the PSU fail.

All the failures I have heard of are mostly single 1.25 models and the odd dual 867MHz model. Can't even recall hearing about other models and I did a lot of research back then. Also, back in 2007 a lot more people still used MDD's so the data back then was more accurate.

What exactly makes the PSU fail? Is it constant load, or does it happen over time?

zen.state
Jun 29, 2011, 11:06 AM
What exactly makes the PSU fail? Is it constant load, or does it happen overtime?

Pretty sure it was capacitor based like the G5's. The MDD was the last G4 tower so I think Apple started using those bad capacitors just before the G5. The single 1.25 is from the final MDD model named the "2003". The first is just called the MDD and the 2nd model was referred to as the FW800. It's that middle FW800 model that seems to be the most reliable. If you're getting a dual 1.42 then it is for sure a FW800 series model as that speed was only offered in that series.

The FW800 model has the more reliable 360watt PSU. The first and 3rd MDD's use the less stable 400watt PSU.

Grab a great freeware app called "Mactracker" to read up on the 3 different MDD's.

adcx64
Jun 29, 2011, 11:11 AM
Pretty sure it was capacitor based like the G5's. The MDD was the last G4 tower so I think Apple started using those bad capacitors just before the G5. The single 1.25 is from the final MDD model named the "2003". The first is just called the MDD and the 2nd model was referred to as the FW800. It's that middle FW800 model that seems to be the most reliable. If you're getting a dual 1.42 then it is for sure a FW800 series model as that speed was only offered in that series.

Grab a great freeware app called "Mactracker" to read up on the 3 different MDD's.

Thanks for the info. Im going to look into Mactracker.

EDIT: just downloaded Mactracker for iOS on my iPad. It's awesome to have all these Mac specs anywhere!

Cox Orange
Jun 30, 2011, 05:11 AM
a question on the MDD fans: does anybody know, if there were different fans in the different MDD generations? (I read a comment on ebay that the model shown had "the better Papst Fan, 1. Generation had others").

0dev
Jun 30, 2011, 05:15 AM
iMac G4. Get a decently specced up one and it'll be reliable and, of course, as with any iMac G4, beautiful.

reddrag0n
Jun 30, 2011, 02:28 PM
a question on the MDD fans: does anybody know, if there were different fans in the different MDD generations? (I read a comment on ebay that the model shown had "the better Papst Fan, 1. Generation had others").Yes, the original fan (blowing air across the cpu) was a Delta 120mm fan. Later with the PSU fan trade in offer was new fans for the PSU and a Papst 120mm fan to go where the loud Delta sat.

zen.state
Jun 30, 2011, 02:45 PM
Yes, the original fan (blowing air across the cpu) was a Delta 120mm fan. Later with the PSU fan trade in offer was new fans for the PSU and a Papst 120mm fan to go where the loud Delta sat.

The 2x MDD I had in 2007-08 (Dual 867 and 1.42) both had the stock Delta fans. Delta has never catered to the quiet computing market from what I have seen. The tradeoff for louder fans though is massive airflow. Those 120mm x 38mm (most fans are only 25mm deep) Delta in the MDD blow a whopping 150+ CFM. The average 120mm fan on the consumer market is only 40 - 80 CFM.

Delta are for people that need cooling first and quiet second or not at all. The 2x 60mm x 25mm in the PSU blow close to 40CFM each at near 6000rpm. Thats why the first MDD especially was so damn loud.

The stock 120mm Delta can get up to about 40 db and the 2x 60mm around 34 db. "Quiet" fans are in the sub 25db range.

VanneDC
Jun 30, 2011, 08:11 PM
hmm. i know the stats for the G5 failure rates, however... i (knock on wood) haven't run into any dramas with any G5 ive owned in the past. Then again, ive not had any dramas with any MDD or Quicky ive owned...

I have had a Gen 1 Mac pro go the way of the dodo, but that was transport related. Both my current PM G5's are humming along nicely, and not looking to give up the ghost any time soon.

Love the G5..

Cadillac Man
Jul 5, 2011, 09:23 AM
As long as you stay away from the liquid-cooled G5's and the iMac G5 you should be okay. (G5 iMacs where at my school and were always blowing logic boards) To be 100% safe though, I would get a high-end G4 Power Mac.

A better option (depending on your budget) would be a first generation Mac Pro. This seems like more of a future- proof option. Unless it needs to be a PPC, get the Mac Pro

VanneDC
Jul 5, 2011, 12:23 PM
This I getting weird, don't recommend iMac G5?

I've got a gen1 iMac g5 from launch day and it's still going strong, never missed a beat..

MacintoshMaster
Jul 10, 2011, 07:50 AM
I have heard a lot of bad things about the G5 (Wouldn't get one myself!)

I would recommend the powermac g4 mdd dual 1.42Ghz. If you max the ram out it would be super fast!

Nameci
Jul 10, 2011, 08:48 AM
Superfast for a dual 1.42 GHz FW800? You are kidding right? Do you have both so you can tell the difference? have one first of each and then tell us how it compare with each other. The only G5 that a DP g4 can overpower were the single 1.6 and single 1.8 G5's. That is a fact.

I have had PM G3, G4, G5, imac G5. Hearing some facts is not acceptable, using it for yourself speaks for itself.

reddrag0n
Jul 10, 2011, 11:40 AM
Well, as for myself, i went from a SP MDD 1.4 GHz (OC'ed) to a whopping modded G5 DP 2.5 GHz (air cooled) and yeah, anyone who says an MDD is quicker... honestly, no chance in h**l. My geekbench score is 2136 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1020076/jj/g5lcs2air_files/Media/Picture%201/Picture%201.jpg) vs the MDD at 800 some odd. System boots faster, apps run alot faster, everything is smoother, and from personal use, the G5 is a whole lot quieter! I'm sorry, but after a PSU mod on the MDD, it was still loud. Blasted 60 mm fans.

Anyways, for a decent PPC mac to get, i would say a good G5. It took two G5's to build up mine into the beast it is now, but if you go the DP 2 or DP 2.3 GHz, you can't go wrong.

Tucom
Jul 10, 2011, 08:30 PM
Dual core or Quad G5. The later (NOT DUAL PROCESSOR) because they (the dual CORE) support faster DDR2 RAM, PCI-Express, and I think are the most reliable, no?


But yeah, it's funny hearing that G4 can "blow away the G5 and keep up with my Core Duo! etc."....maybe in backwards land? A G5 is far faster than any G4 (only scenario is a dual 1Ghz + G4 can beat a *SINGLE* processor G5 on *multithreaded apps, only*) and can keep up with the older Intel machines.


Thus, G5, and am actually looking to get a G5 Dual Core machine like I think Nameci has for a Core 1 Duo Mac Mini I have, as I already have a C2D Mac Mini as my daily driver.

Nameci
Jul 10, 2011, 08:40 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270777841438&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Hurry up! It could be worth the effort...

adcx64
Jul 10, 2011, 08:47 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270777841438&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Hurry up! It could be worth the effort...

Good call Nameci! Ill see if I can snatch it up!

Nameci
Jul 10, 2011, 08:51 PM
I bought mine with barely nothing on it, no hdd, 512mb ram. I did not even know if it boots. But I have taken the risk and well right now I have this sweet running PM G5 2.3 DC.

Well basing from the pictures it seems that it is booting up well and it only needs a hard drive.

MCIowaRulz
Jul 12, 2011, 01:50 PM
The 2x MDD I had in 2007-08 (Dual 867 and 1.42) both had the stock Delta fans. Delta has never catered to the quiet computing market from what I have seen. The tradeoff for louder fans though is massive airflow. Those 120mm x 38mm (most fans are only 25mm deep) Delta in the MDD blow a whopping 150+ CFM. The average 120mm fan on the consumer market is only 40 - 80 CFM.

Delta are for people that need cooling first and quiet second or not at all. The 2x 60mm x 25mm in the PSU blow close to 40CFM each at near 6000rpm. Thats why the first MDD especially was so damn loud.

The stock 120mm Delta can get up to about 40 db and the 2x 60mm around 34 db. "Quiet" fans are in the sub 25db range.

So What the heck is the single processor G4 867 from 01? I have one and the thing always sound's like it is taking off.

Cox Orange
Jul 13, 2011, 08:29 AM
your's is a Quicksilver http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_867_qs.html it is from the first Quicksilver periode model range. Then 2002 there was a second Quicksilver range.
After that the MDDs came.

The first Dual 867MHz MDD had the same systembus Like the Quicksilver (maybe this is why zen.state called it "odd"). I could imagine they used Quicksilver boards and added everything new from the South- and Northbridge downwards, but perhaps it would be easier to design it completely new. I do not know, if my imagination is in anyway possible, since I do not really know how the parts of the boardstructure work together, I just came across the words and that other parts are "connected" to the systembus, which is connected to the CPU. I might be totally wrong!

The MDD had 3. generations:
1. 2x867, 2x 1GHz, 2x 1,25GHz
2. all firewire800-models
3. relaunch of 2x1,25GHz as single and dual version (I guess that is the generation that came with "better" fans, discussed prior.