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MacRumors
Jun 24, 2011, 01:14 PM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/24/hands-on-video-of-lacie-little-big-disk-ssd-with-thunderbolt/)


Since Apple and Intel introduced (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/24/thunderbolt-details-emerge-bus-power-mini-displayport-and-more/) the Thunderbolt high-speed connectivity standard back in February, users have been waiting for third-party manufacturers to deliver compatible peripherals taking advantage of the significant speed boost over existing mainstream interfaces.

At the Thunderbolt debut, prominent external hard drive solution provider LaCie was one of the first to commit to the new connectivity standard, noting that it was planning to release Thunderbolt-enabled versions of its Little Big Disk external hard drives.

SlashGear today posted a hands-on video (http://www.slashgear.com/lacie-little-big-disk-with-thunderbolt-hands-on-video-24161210/) with the Thunderbolt-enabled Little Big Disk, showing off an SSD-based version packing two 160 GB drives. LaCie's setup saw two such drives daisy-chained in a RAID 0 configuration with a 24-inch display tacked on at the end of the chain, all connected to a Core i7-based MacBook Pro. The drive setup was able to handle impressive read speeds of over 825 MB/sec and write speeds of over 350 MB/sec.The first demo was a raw speed test, reading and writing to the drives with 4GB files. As you can see in the video, the MBP was able to write at up to 352.5 MB/s, while read speeds reached 827.2 MB/s. The company told us that the same setup had hit 870 MB/s peaks in their own testing.

The second test was playing back three simultaneous video files stored on the drives, each coming in at 1080p Full HD resolution. Again, as in the video, playback was stutter-free whether windowed or full-screen. We were also able to scrub back and forth through the clip - with the two others running in the background - with no lag or pauses.SSD models of the Little Big Disk with Thunderbolt are due to ship this summer ("a question of weeks from now", according to the LaCie representative), but pricing has not yet been released. More budget-friendly models based on traditional hard drives are also in the works, although LaCie has yet to offer a release timeline for those models.

Article Link: Hands-On Video of LaCie Little Big Disk SSD With Thunderbolt (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/24/hands-on-video-of-lacie-little-big-disk-ssd-with-thunderbolt/)



dagamer34
Jun 24, 2011, 01:20 PM
So they DO exist! I'm wondering what the cost will be for these boxes as I'd like to store my photo collection on them.

Also, Thunderbolt to USB 3.0, make the freaking adapter already!

EDIT: Anyone notice in the images on SlashGear that the copy of Avatar has a file name that is WAY too similar to what you'd find on torrent sites?? O_O

Anaemik
Jun 24, 2011, 01:20 PM
Things seem to be shaping up well for the future. Now all we need is the price of SSDs to drop to more affordable levels, and it looks like we're in sight of losing the biggest bottleneck that currently exists in computing.

0815
Jun 24, 2011, 01:22 PM
Can't wait for the Thunderbold SSD drives.

The current iMacs have only a 256 GB SSD option and you can't even custom order one with bigger SSD drives or two SSD drives. I need > 512 GB SSD. This way I can order the 27' iMac with the small (256) SSD and attached more fast SSD storage through Thunderbold.

Anaemik
Jun 24, 2011, 01:25 PM
Can't wait for the Thunderbold SSD drives.

The current iMacs have only a 256 GB SSD option and you can't even custom order one with bigger SSD drives or two SSD drives. I need > 512 GB SSD. This way I can order the 27' iMac with the small (256) SSD and attached more fast SSD storage through Thunderbold.

I thought the same. I'm assuming TB drives are bootable?

Piggie
Jun 24, 2011, 01:27 PM
Very impressive.

Unfortunately the "normal, typical consumer" that Apple is now directly focussing on, is not the type of person who'd going to be willing to pay whatever stratospheric price tag this gear costs.

I love fast things. My only concern, and others who have posted in the past, is that 3rd party companies only make very high end, expensive products that use Thunderbolt, whilst a whole army of USB3 products at "typical consumer prices" come out, that work just as well, from the typical consumers viewpoint, at a fraction of the cost.

Ideally I'd like to see the same external drive come with USB3 or Thunderbolt at the same price, or something minor like $10 more for the thunderbolt version, perhaps due to an extra chip or something.

h1r0ll3r
Jun 24, 2011, 01:30 PM
The little blue lights on the HD's are mesmerizing. Me wanty.

NutsNGum
Jun 24, 2011, 01:32 PM
Megabucks nightmare heart attack.

Bluethree
Jun 24, 2011, 01:37 PM
SDSARUTPFTAC

Still Desperately Seeking A Remotely Useable Thunderbolt Peripheral For The Average Consumer !!! :confused::mad:

Move on nothing to see here.

inket
Jun 24, 2011, 01:37 PM
The SSDs seem crap. "Up to 350MB/s" write speed isn't much considering *single* SSDs like Vertex 3 can achieve around 500MB/s.

subsonix
Jun 24, 2011, 01:37 PM
Very impressive.

Unfortunately the "normal, typical consumer" that Apple is now directly focussing on, is not the type of person who'd going to be willing to pay whatever stratospheric price tag this gear costs.

I love fast things. My only concern, and others who have posted in the past, is that 3rd party companies only make very high end, expensive products that use Thunderbolt, whilst a whole army of USB3 products at "typical consumer prices" come out, that work just as well, from the typical consumers viewpoint, at a fraction of the cost.

Ideally I'd like to see the same external drive come with USB3 or Thunderbolt at the same price, or something minor like $10 more for the thunderbolt version, perhaps due to an extra chip or something.

It's the first real product ever shown that is not just marketing material or vaporware. More and cheaper products will most likely be available down the line. But the target audience that is going to use the bandwidth needs something faster than regular magnetic hard drives, otherwise there is no point in using the faster bus speeds.

orfeas0
Jun 24, 2011, 01:37 PM
Aren't external disks made for more storage? Why would you buy an external ssd?
If you're rich, sure, go for it... But I don't think most people will spend money for an 160gb external ssd while they can probably buy a 2tb hard drive with the same money...

OllyW
Jun 24, 2011, 01:39 PM
Ideally I'd like to see the same external drive come with USB3 or Thunderbolt at the same price, or something minor like $10 more for the thunderbolt version, perhaps due to an extra chip or something.

I've got a feeling Thunderbolt drives are going to be marketed as high end products in the same way that FireWire 800 drives were and will be pitched at similar premium price levels.

TwoLabsMedia
Jun 24, 2011, 01:39 PM
Depends on how much performance we want. I use an SSD to work on projects at hand, then archive them to a cheaper larger spinning drive. The reason is not only is transfer faster when working off SSD, but rendering and all the bandwidth intensive tasks that take place when editing HD video is faster as well.

subsonix
Jun 24, 2011, 01:40 PM
The SSDs seem crap. "Up to 350MB/s" write speed isn't much considering *single* SSDs like Vertex 3 can achieve around 500MB/s.

They shouldn't be using SATA drives to begin with since they have access to the PCIe bus, then they can get above 1GB/s easily, especially in raid 0.

tsugaru
Jun 24, 2011, 01:48 PM
So they DO exist! I'm wondering what the cost will be for these boxes as I'd like to store my photo collection on them.

Also, Thunderbolt to USB 3.0, make the freaking adapter already!

EDIT: Anyone notice in the images on SlashGear that the copy of Avatar has a file name that is WAY too similar to what you'd find on torrent sites?? O_O

Someone needs to make a Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 / eSATA 6Gbps / Firewire 1600 or 800 / HDMI or (mini)Displayport in/out hub. One cable to rule them all.

BTGeekboy
Jun 24, 2011, 01:53 PM
I thought the same. I'm assuming TB drives are bootable?

I hope so, and am going on the assumption they are. I have this weird idea of being able to take a 2.5" SSD in an enclosure and velcro it to the back of an iMac, so I don't have to take the whole thing apart or send it to OWC to get Apple's SSD installed.

Thunderhawks
Jun 24, 2011, 01:54 PM
Very impressive.

Unfortunately the "normal, typical consumer" that Apple is now directly focussing on, is not the type of person who'd going to be willing to pay whatever stratospheric price tag this gear costs.

I love fast things. My only concern, and others who have posted in the past, is that 3rd party companies only make very high end, expensive products that use Thunderbolt, whilst a whole army of USB3 products at "typical consumer prices" come out, that work just as well, from the typical consumers viewpoint, at a fraction of the cost.

Ideally I'd like to see the same external drive come with USB3 or Thunderbolt at the same price, or something minor like $10 more for the thunderbolt version, perhaps due to an extra chip or something.

OWC probably already at work to come out with an HD with 3 or 4 connectors in the back. Only a matter of time:-)

As for prices, wait a while until there is ample of supply and production capacities and they'll come down as usual!

*LTD*
Jun 24, 2011, 01:55 PM
But weren't all the naysayers saying there isn't any Thunderbolt support and that no one cared about it?

addicted44
Jun 24, 2011, 01:57 PM
I've got a feeling Thunderbolt drives are going to be marketed as high end products in the same way that FireWire 800 drives were and will be pitched at similar premium price levels.

I dont believe that at all. With FW, Apple was the only one pushing it, and Apple had little to no traction in those days. Currently, even if Apple is the only one pushing TB (I doubt that will be the case, since Intel's chips will include support for it), they have enough marketshare that it will be heavily supported by mass market peripheral makers.

dark knight
Jun 24, 2011, 01:58 PM
i agree that these will cost a huge amount and that the average consumer is not going to buy them, but for those who slate on this basis just remember that Apple get accused of leaving the 'pros' out in the cold more often - they just cant win.

everything sounds great in that french accent too!

artpease
Jun 24, 2011, 01:58 PM
Megabucks nightmare heart attack.

Oh, let's guess! My guess is $1499 :(

OllyW
Jun 24, 2011, 02:00 PM
But weren't all the naysayers saying there isn't any Thunderbolt support and that no one cared about it?

I think a lot of members have been complaining that they've had their Thunderbolt equipped Macs since February and have not been able to purchase any peripherals to take advantage of it.

Don't worry, they'll soon be complaining how expensive the first products are when they finally do go on sale. ;)

citi
Jun 24, 2011, 02:00 PM
Aren't external disks made for more storage? Why would you buy an external ssd?
If you're rich, sure, go for it... But I don't think most people will spend money for an 160gb external ssd while they can probably buy a 2tb hard drive with the same money...

These would be used to read and write to. Like for video guys that are doing high resolution editing. Probably be very good on live TV broadcasts.

umbriell
Jun 24, 2011, 02:03 PM
Oh, let's guess! My guess is $1499 :(

For 240 gb?

That's outrageous.

How about $600?

maclaptop
Jun 24, 2011, 02:05 PM
I've got a feeling Thunderbolt drives are going to be marketed as high end products in the same way that FireWire 800 drives were and will be pitched at similar premium price levels.

I believe you are absolutely right. LaCie has made Mac their focus with pricey products from day one, years ago. While they are nicely styled in "Mac Style" cases, the problem is there relatively poor service life, as compared to other similar products. Since I put a lot of time on my computers and peripherals it's something I tend to notice long before less serious users.

I've tried several, and in each case the MTBF was quite short. But then again it's the influence of Apple Tax that has relieved them from taking responsibility for lifespan. A bit noisy, I've always questioned the quality of components inside. They embrace the same thinking as Apple, kind of an "oh well" mentality.

Consultant
Jun 24, 2011, 02:07 PM
So they DO exist! I'm wondering what the cost will be for these boxes as I'd like to store my photo collection on them.

Also, Thunderbolt to USB 3.0, make the freaking adapter already!

EDIT: Anyone notice in the images on SlashGear that the copy of Avatar has a file name that is WAY too similar to what you'd find on torrent sites?? O_O

Thunderbolt + SSD aren't made for simple photos.

If you have to ask for price, it's probably out of your budget.

0815
Jun 24, 2011, 02:13 PM
Thunderbolt + SSD aren't made for simple photos.

If you have to ask for price, it's probably out of your budget.

They are probably not made for photos - but they help a lot with iPhoto ... ever since I put a SSD in my laptop iPhoto is responsive and usable again (with lot's of photos in it).

SSD is the best upgrade you can do to any computer - better than any new hardware/processor. If you have the choice between the next generation processor and a SSD upgrade, go with SSD (exceptions apply, some [few] people need the 'processing' power of newer processors). The harddrive is the biggest single bottleneck in modern machines - SSD is the cure for it. (And for external harddrives it is Thunderbolt + SSD drive)

jclardy
Jun 24, 2011, 02:15 PM
SDSARUTPFTAC

Still Desperately Seeking A Remotely Useable Thunderbolt Peripheral For The Average Consumer !!! :confused::mad:

Move on nothing to see here.

Thunderbolt will be catering more to the pro market until hardware prices drop for items that require such incredible speeds. A 7200RPM external HDD would barely use the channel.

Even still, if a normal (non-ssd) external had two thunderbolt ports it would be rather useful as you could dock your computer with only one cable plugged in, but have both display and external storage connected.

And once the cheaper mac lines get thunderbolt there will be more support as right now you only find it on $1200+ computers from Apple from this year, which is a small market for accessory companies. Adding Mac Mini, Mac Pro, and Macbook Air to that will increase the market substantially, along with time.

Thunderhawks
Jun 24, 2011, 02:15 PM
Oh, let's guess! My guess is $1499 :(

$ 1,499 is just for the connecting cable.

The real drive is $ 4,999.99 on sale

GFLPraxis
Jun 24, 2011, 02:19 PM
Someone needs to make a Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 / eSATA 6Gbps / Firewire 1600 or 800 / HDMI or (mini)Displayport in/out hub. One cable to rule them all.

This.

And a Thunderbolt external GPU.

NutsNGum
Jun 24, 2011, 02:21 PM
I'm keen to know who the misery guts is -1'ing all the comments.

Is there a fanboy on the loose?

Mad Man
Jun 24, 2011, 02:26 PM
I'm keen to know who the misery guts is -1'ing all the comments.

Is there a fanboy on the loose?

disagreement [with you] != fanboy

NutsNGum
Jun 24, 2011, 02:29 PM
disagreement [with you] != fanboy

That's really cool. Do you code? Are you a coder? That's really cool. I like the way you did that in code there.

RalfTheDog
Jun 24, 2011, 02:34 PM
The SSDs seem crap. "Up to 350MB/s" write speed isn't much considering *single* SSDs like Vertex 3 can achieve around 500MB/s.

There is a difference between random IO and sequential reads. Don't forget, SSDs tend to use less power and are great for high vibration environments.

...

EDIT: Anyone notice in the images on SlashGear that the copy of Avatar has a file name that is WAY too similar to what you'd find on torrent sites?? O_O

How would you know what the Torrent file names would look like?

Sincerely, Your friendly MPAA.

Supa_Fly
Jun 24, 2011, 02:34 PM
The SSDs seem crap. "Up to 350MB/s" write speed isn't much considering *single* SSDs like Vertex 3 can achieve around 500MB/s.

You do realize that these are RAID 256 GBx2 SSDs!

They shouldn't be using SATA drives to begin with since they have access to the PCIe bus, then they can get above 1GB/s easily, especially in raid 0.

Exactly! Not to mention the reduced latency for the drives and the near instant read/write speeds reaching peak and longevity.

CplBadboy
Jun 24, 2011, 02:38 PM
What sort of speeds can we expect from a spinny HDD??

milo
Jun 24, 2011, 02:41 PM
Aren't external disks made for more storage? Why would you buy an external ssd?

To run apps that require maximum speed on an iMac or especially laptop. Think video editing on the road.

Pros are going to kill for these. And they shouldn't be that much more expensive than an SSD, the peripheral just needs to be a case and TB ports while the internal drive can be any bare drive.

Pro users are going to buy these like hotcakes, this lifts one of the biggest bottlenecks in a laptop.


What sort of speeds can we expect from a spinny HDD??

Same as you're getting now. In most cases HD speed is more a bottleneck than bus.

*LTD*
Jun 24, 2011, 02:47 PM
For the time being I've got about 6 TB of storage - all Fantom drives by Micronet. Highly recommend.

Good enough for now, mostly because there's a lot of expensive storage out there that's still too small in size.

Hellhammer
Jun 24, 2011, 03:00 PM
What sort of speeds can we expect from a spinny HDD??

Same as you're getting now. In most cases HD speed is more a bottleneck than bus.

Not when we talk about external interfaces. USB 2.0 maxes out at ~40MB/s in real world. FW800 provides about 80MB/s.

The speed of the HD depends on couple of things. First, the rotation speed. Usually that is either 5400rpm or 7200rpm. Second, the capacity. Usually bigger drive means higher density which speeds things up since more data can be read/written per rotation. The fastest HDs provide roughly 150MB/s.

chazmuzz
Jun 24, 2011, 03:07 PM
I have both that laptop and that monitor, by the looks (24 inch samsung). This means I HAVE to get the LaCie setup too :))

JackLeBoul
Jun 24, 2011, 03:29 PM
Anyone know what software the guy is using on the screen measuring the HD speed. I can make out "Speeddometer" or something.

thanks

Jack

OceanView
Jun 24, 2011, 03:31 PM
At those prices it's gonna be a while before most people buy these things.
Maybe another 2-3 years from now.

100Teraflops
Jun 24, 2011, 03:39 PM
Oh, let's guess! My guess is $1499 :(

I'll bite and I guess $1399 :D

There was another version which supposedly uses 510 GB SSDs and that external drive will be mucho dinero! Too bad though, as TB looks promising. I am hoping to buy the little big or an equivalent for scratch disk duties, but the price has to be south of 10 Benjamin's.

Prodo123
Jun 24, 2011, 03:44 PM
The SSDs seem crap. "Up to 350MB/s" write speed isn't much considering *single* SSDs like Vertex 3 can achieve around 500MB/s.

Considering this is an external drive, it's not half bad. Other external drives average at 50-80MB/s anyway, or 150-180 if it's an SSD connected via USB 3.0.

Mike Oxard
Jun 24, 2011, 03:45 PM
I'm hoping Seagate come good with their promise of a Thunderbolt adapter for the GoFlex range later this year:

http://storageeffect.media.seagate.com/2011/02/storage-effect/seagate-goflex-to-adapt-to-apples-thunderbolt-technology/

Prodo123
Jun 24, 2011, 03:47 PM
For 240 gb?

That's outrageous.

How about $600?

For 256GB I bet on $1,300, considering the market this is headed to. Remember this also offers RAID and dual SSD's, so this isn't actually an outrageous price.

I would KILL for a $100 8GB Thunderbolt flash drive.

KasperH
Jun 24, 2011, 04:04 PM
This.

And a Thunderbolt external GPU.

With support for Quad SLI! :p

NutsNGum
Jun 24, 2011, 04:13 PM
I'm hoping Seagate come good with their promise of a Thunderbolt adapter for the GoFlex range later this year:

http://storageeffect.media.seagate.com/2011/02/storage-effect/seagate-goflex-to-adapt-to-apples-thunderbolt-technology/

That would be great, those GoFlex accessories are pretty reasonably priced.

KasperH
Jun 24, 2011, 04:15 PM
first to market with a simple single empty 2.5" drive enclosure priced at 100$ will be a millionaire in a matter of hours.

Why haven't we seen this yet, is it overly technical to produce?

Pentad
Jun 24, 2011, 04:20 PM
I would like an external TB enclosure that I can put a SATA drive in. SSD has two major problems for me and I suspect many other people:

1. Cost
2. Size

I use a number of 3 TB external drive enclosures for work and personal use which there is no SSD available. Of course, if there was a 3 TB SSD it would be something only Steve Jobs could afford.

I would like to see a large capacity SATA Drive (SATA/6 would be nice) so that I could backup large amounts of files. There are many, many USB 3.0 Backup Solutions and I'm worried about TB becoming the next FW.

I hope -if nothing else- I can get a USB3 to TB converter so I have access to the wide range of USB3 Backup Solutions.


-P

JasonH42
Jun 24, 2011, 04:39 PM
Vertex 3 offers 500Megabit per second (Mbps), not 500Megabyte(MB/s). Huge difference between the two.
800MB/s equate to 6400Mbit/s, or roughly 6.5 Gbps. Compare that to Vertex 3's 400Mbps write, or 0.4 Gbps. Even on random reads from Vertex 3, which can go up to 500Mbps,this is around 13 times faster.
This is generations ahead. *drools* It's already faster than USB 3.0's theoretical, impractical top speed of 5Gbps!!

Nope, the Vertex 3 figure IS megabytes (MB) not megabits (Mb). They're insanely fast. I have two Vertex 3s in (software) RAID0 and I get over 700 megabytes per second read performance.

Anthros
Jun 24, 2011, 04:54 PM
Vertex 3 offers 500Megabit per second (Mbps), not 500Megabyte(MB/s). Huge difference between the two.

There is certainly a huge difference between megabits and megabytes; it's very important not to confuse the two. Unfortunately, you confused them.

Here's a link to some performance testing graphs; all results are in megabytes per second, but the graphs also specify the speed of the SATA link involved--either 3 or 6 gigabits per second. You'll notice that sequential read speeds hover around 400 megabytes per second.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4341/ocz-vertex-3-max-iops-patriot-wildfire-ssds-reviewed/4

Sequential reads on a spinning hard drive are in the 100-150 megabyte per second range. A single drive can saturate a gigabit ethernet connection, which has a theoretical bandwidth of 128 megabytes per second. SSDs can saturate a SATAII link, which is 3 gigabits per second. That's why the newer SSDs support SATAIII, which is six gigabits per second.

Personally, I'd love to see a 10GigE Thunderbolt adaptor; I'm not holding my breath.

Apropos of nothing, one of my favorite aphorisms is "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

Cheers,

Jason

AidenShaw
Jun 24, 2011, 05:31 PM
But weren't all the naysayers saying there isn't any Thunderbolt support and that no one cared about it?

Still no price, and still no shipping date.

adambadamh
Jun 24, 2011, 05:53 PM
So is it not possible to do a hub set up when you are using Thunderbolt architecture? What if I wanted to remove one of the drives? I would have to temporarily disconnect the monitor?

Tucom
Jun 24, 2011, 06:33 PM
Were the drives being powered by the TB port bus alone?

AidenShaw
Jun 24, 2011, 07:02 PM
So is it not possible to do a hub set up when you are using Thunderbolt architecture? What if I wanted to remove one of the drives? I would have to temporarily disconnect the monitor?

Even worse - if you had more than one drive in the daisy chain, you'd have to dismount ("umount", "offline" or whatever syntax your OS uses for the procedure to remove a volume(s)) any disks in the chain after the one you intend to unplug.

It could be worse than that - I'm assuming that breaking the daisy chain "after" device "X" does not affect device "X" and any devices in the chain before "X". I don't know if that assumption is correct. (Note that SCSI was a daisy-chained technology, and disconnecting any part of the bus could have catastrophic effects on the integrity of your data.)

Until TBolt devices actually ship, and people see how they perform, it may be prudent to do a full shutdown of your system before adding/removing cables.

iSayuSay
Jun 24, 2011, 07:34 PM
Vertex 3 offers 500Megabit per second (Mbps), not 500Megabyte(MB/s). Huge difference between the two.
800MB/s equate to 6400Mbit/s, or roughly 6.5 Gbps. Compare that to Vertex 3's 400Mbps write, or 0.4 Gbps. Even on random reads from Vertex 3, which can go up to 500Mbps,this is around 13 times faster.
This is generations ahead. *drools* It's already faster than USB 3.0's theoretical, impractical top speed of 5Gbps!!

Hahahahahahaha ... Now you may tried to correct someone, but your mistake is quite laughable. Vertex3 indeed promise 500MB/s read write speed. While traditional hdd (w/sata) can read up to approx. 100MB/s

500Mbps is relatively SLOW for ssd. Meaning you only get around 64MBps read/write. Please correct it, if u have the time of course

sushi
Jun 24, 2011, 07:37 PM
I've got a feeling Thunderbolt drives are going to be marketed as high end products in the same way that FireWire 800 drives were and will be pitched at similar premium price levels.
I hope not.

But I think you are right.

bigwig
Jun 24, 2011, 07:46 PM
I would KILL for a $100 8GB Thunderbolt flash drive.
Until OSX supports TRIM on third-party drives, and early indications are that 10.7 doesn't, you'll waste all your time clearing dirty cells on writes. The speed of your interface will be totally wasted.

bigwig
Jun 24, 2011, 07:48 PM
So is it not possible to do a hub set up when you are using Thunderbolt architecture? What if I wanted to remove one of the drives? I would have to temporarily disconnect the monitor?
That's why Thunderbolt's design spec requiring monitors be last in the chain is so stupid. You have to turn off and reconnect your monitor to disconnect a drive. If the monitor were first, this usage defect doesn't happen.

Scarrus
Jun 24, 2011, 07:52 PM
Until OSX supports TRIM on third-party drives, and early indications are that 10.7 doesn't, you'll waste all your time clearing dirty cells on writes. The speed of your interface will be totally wasted.

+ to that and what is the benefit of thunderbolt already?

Ed State
Jun 24, 2011, 08:53 PM
I've had 5 LaCie disks up and die on me. Not kidding. 2 bought and 3 replacements. They are terrible, terrible quality, and the people who run that company should be driven into the streets and beaten with rubber hoses.

:mad:

AidenShaw
Jun 24, 2011, 09:00 PM
+ to that and what is the benefit of thunderbolt already?

It's something that some of the newest, most expensive Apples have, and PCs don't - so it's wonderful.

;)

There's no benefit to TBolt today. You can't buy any TBolt devices, and few companies have even quoted prices for TBolt stuff. (And most of those are quoting close to $1000 or more for a TBolt device.)

Buy USB 3.0 stuff instead. Someday when Apple supports current technology you'll be happy.

admanimal
Jun 24, 2011, 10:05 PM
There's no benefit to TBolt today. You can't buy any TBolt devices, and few companies have even quoted prices for TBolt stuff. (And most of those are quoting close to $1000 or more for a TBolt device.)

Buy USB 3.0 stuff instead. Someday when Apple supports current technology you'll be happy.

Thunderbolt is bad because there are no devices today, so it's better to buy a USB3 device that doesn't work on a Mac today either, and may never work at all? I'm confused. :confused:

OllyW
Jun 25, 2011, 03:38 AM
Thunderbolt is bad because there are no devices today, so it's better to buy a USB3 device that doesn't work on a Mac today either, and may never work at all? I'm confused. :confused:

USB 3.0 does work with a Mac but only at USB 2.0 speed.

Intel is adding native support of USB 3.0 (and Thunderbolt) (http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/intel-to-support-usb-3-0-alongside-thunderbolt-coming-with-ivy/) to the Ivy Bridge chipset next year so hopefully we'll get it alongside TB in the 2012 Mac updates.

Hellhammer
Jun 25, 2011, 04:15 AM
USB 3.0 does work with a Mac but only at USB 2.0 speed.

Unless you have a USB 3.0 PCIe or ExpressCard card ;)

Intel is adding native support of USB 3.0 (and Thunderbolt) (http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/intel-to-support-usb-3-0-alongside-thunderbolt-coming-with-ivy/) to the Ivy Bridge chipset next year so hopefully we'll get it alongside TB in the 2012 Mac updates.

There won't be native Thunderbolt support, still a separate chip: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4406/correction-ivy-bridge-and-thunderbolt-featured-not-integrated

OllyW
Jun 25, 2011, 04:20 AM
There won't be native Thunderbolt support, still a separate chip: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4406/correction-ivy-bridge-and-thunderbolt-featured-not-integrated

That's going to be another blow against widespread Thunderbolt adoption. :(

Hellhammer
Jun 25, 2011, 04:25 AM
That's going to be another blow against widespread Thunderbolt adoption. :(

Yeah. Looks like TB will be (another) fancy interface for professionals. Native USB 3.0 support means that OEMs have no need to drive Thunderbolt as aggressively since USB 3.0 is enough for most people. If there was no USB 3.0 support in IB, then OEMs might have harder time choosing between USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt (both would require a discrete chip).

wesleyh
Jun 25, 2011, 05:28 AM
So, can we boot from TB?

SilianRail
Jun 25, 2011, 05:45 AM
It really can't be emphasized enough how awful it is that the monitor has to be the last link in the daisy chain. Losing your external screen everytime you need to add or subtract Thunderbolt items is absolutely terrible. Bunch of engineering nerds designing things terribly at catastrophic functionality cost for a slight boost in specs. Just clueless.

The 32 Gbps PCI Express external cable standard can't come out soon enough. DisplayPort 1.2 also has twice the display bandwidth as Thunderbolt.

jb510
Jun 25, 2011, 12:39 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

825 is impressive since that's above what USB 3 is capable of (600MB/s theoretical) but I'd really like to see something like a 5 bay drive that was capable of 1200+ to prove TB's external storage chops... Better yet monsterously huge DAS using HD capable of 1GB/s

People seem to want to see a 2.5" single portable hard drive hooked up via TB, I wonder if these people understand where the bottle necks actually are.

KasperH
Jun 25, 2011, 12:50 PM
People seem to want to see a 2.5" single portable hard drive hooked up via TB, I wonder if these people understand where the bottle necks actually are.

I think most here wants a SSD connected via TB not a 2.5" hard drive. If they want a hard drive, i't would probably be to replace a slow USB 2.0 drive, not a expensive FW800 drive.

coolspot18
Jun 25, 2011, 11:10 PM
An external enclosure to attach PCI-E cards - especially GPUs to the iMac would be insanely useful. Where are those devices?

Anyways, Thunderbolt is a dud - we'll be lucky to see a single device come out for this port.

Apple should really refund us some money on these useless ports :)

macman312
Jun 26, 2011, 07:08 AM
So they DO exist! I'm wondering what the cost will be for these boxes as I'd like to store my photo collection on them.

Also, Thunderbolt to USB 3.0, make the freaking adapter already!

EDIT: Anyone notice in the images on SlashGear that the copy of Avatar has a file name that is WAY too similar to what you'd find on torrent sites?? O_O

I too am looking for a new external HDD so hurry up LaCie and ship them and announce the pricing!!!! They told me when I bought my MBP in March that it can transfer a 10GB movie in some really quick time (can't remember exact time) I thought thats great but transfer to what.....?

Hopefully someone will make a thunderbolt thumb drive so that you can carry your files in your pocket and still have that speed.

iMacTokyo
Jun 26, 2011, 07:35 AM
I hope so, and am going on the assumption they are. I have this weird idea of being able to take a 2.5" SSD in an enclosure and velcro it to the back of an iMac, so I don't have to take the whole thing apart or send it to OWC to get Apple's SSD installed.

A more elegant solution for $30 may be:

http://twelvesouth.com/products/backpack/

You can place anything back there although this is a bit more expensive than velcro...

steadysignal
Jun 26, 2011, 04:16 PM
time to buy another lacie.

captain kaos
Jun 26, 2011, 09:27 PM
These set ups are going to be expensive for a while!!

AidenShaw
Jun 26, 2011, 10:26 PM
These set ups are going to be expensive for a while!!

They may be expensive throughout a short lifetime.

If penetration doesn't radically improve, and the price delta doesn't radically drop - TBolt will soon be dead.

It may limp along for people looking at multi-thousand dollar add-ons for specialized tasks, but USB will be the obvious choice "for the rest of us".

Don't invest in peripherals based on a proprietary signal-sourced non-standard.

BTGeekboy
Jun 26, 2011, 11:06 PM
A more elegant solution for $30 may be:

http://twelvesouth.com/products/backpack/

You can place anything back there although this is a bit more expensive than velcro...

That's neat, but probably not for me. My monitor (to be replaced by an iMac in the near future) sits up against the wall, where it can't be seen, and the backpack might get in the way. $0.50 of velcro will do the trick :)

MacRumoren
Jul 19, 2011, 02:20 AM
Unless you have a USB 3.0 PCIe or ExpressCard card ;)


I have the Lacie USB 3.0 ExpressCard/34 card, but it doesn't work on Lion :(

Thunderbolt +1
SSD +1

Using both together -2 (due to cost and size)

Why not Thunderbolt with 3TB HD, Lacie?