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MacRumors
Jun 27, 2011, 03:15 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/27/mac-os-x-10-6-8-brings-trim-support-for-apple-ssds-graphics-improvements/)


One item of interest regarding last week's Mac OS X 10.6.8 update (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/23/apple-releases-mac-os-x-10-6-8/) reveals that Apple has enabled TRIM support (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12825206&postcount=10) for solid state hard drives shipped in Apple-produced configurations. TRIM is a feature that allows solid state drives (SSDs) to automatically handle garbage collection, cleaning up unused blocks of data and preparing them for rewriting, thereby preventing slowdowns that would otherwise occur over time as garbage data accumulates.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/10_6_8_trim.jpg


Support for TRIM has been included in OS X Lion (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/25/mac-os-x-lion-roundup-recovery-partitions-trim-support-core-2-duo-minimum-focus-on-security/) since its early developer builds, but Apple has apparently decided to push the feature out to Snow Leopard users as well. The new native TRIM support does appear to limited to stock Apple drives, as users who have installed third-party SSDs into their machines have reported that TRIM is not enabled by the update.

Mac OS X 10.6.8 also appears to have brought graphics improvements that have been most apparent to gamers. According to one set of benchmarks (http://www.macsonly.com/062411.html), Mac OS X 10.6.8 outperforms Mac OS X 10.6.7 in many measure of graphics performance, sometimes by a significant margin.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/10_6_8_graphics1.jpg


User reports in the MacRumors forums (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1175926) and the Steam forums (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1947888) similarly point to significant improvements in graphics performance under real-world conditions. A number of users has actually reported significant declines (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2795016) in graphics performance with Mac OS X 10.6.7, so improvements with the new Mac OS X 10.6.8 are certainly to be welcome.

Article Link: Mac OS X 10.6.8 Brings TRIM Support for Apple SSDs, Graphics Improvements (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/27/mac-os-x-10-6-8-brings-trim-support-for-apple-ssds-graphics-improvements/)



mungler
Jun 27, 2011, 03:18 PM
im pretty sure they shipped TRIM in 10.6.7

i havent upgraded to 10.6.8 yet and I have TRIM enabled...

Dicx
Jun 27, 2011, 03:19 PM
TRIM was in my MBP 15, early 2011 running a special build of 10.6.7 right out of the box.

orfeas0
Jun 27, 2011, 03:20 PM
graphics improvement, good news for sandy bridge macbooks limited to the hd3000! and ofc for everyone else ;P

Piggie
Jun 27, 2011, 03:21 PM
Only for official Apple drives?

Ouch! :eek:

Northgrove
Jun 27, 2011, 03:22 PM
Nice and unexpected updates to me. :) I thought it was mostly about minor security and bug fixes. And Lion upgrade support.

So I guess I'll switch to an SSD drive now, and play Halo 'til my fingers bleed! Yaaay!

wikus
Jun 27, 2011, 03:22 PM
Don't care for TRIM support unless its for Intel, OCZ and other superior third party SSD drives. Apple's toshiba rebranded drives are a joke.

What is their excuse for not supporting other drives?

GustavPicora
Jun 27, 2011, 03:23 PM
Tell me whats the SC2 improvement and I will believe.

MJedi
Jun 27, 2011, 03:23 PM
My MBA 11 with stock 128GB SSD on OS X 10.6.7 shows "TRIM Support: No" in System Profiler.

Waiting to install 10.6.8 in case there were bugs in the build. So far, I have not read anything bad about it.

drewyboy
Jun 27, 2011, 03:25 PM
With the TRIM I'm curious to as whether or not OSX says TRIM enabled if the user is sporting a SSD with a SandFore (trim handled by controller). Because "as users who have installed third-party SSDs into their machines have reported that TRIM is not enabled by the update" might not matter because how many of them are having the controller do the TRIM already?

Northgrove
Jun 27, 2011, 03:26 PM
Don't care for TRIM support unless its for Intel, OCZ and other superior third party SSD drives. Apple's toshiba rebranded drives suck.

What is their excuse for not support other drives?
Yes, that sucks for those who've gone through that trouble. I hope a whitelist can be found in the OS and somehow hacked, in case this lack of support is "artificial" (it sure sounds like it because TRIM support is simply about issuing a command to the controller, right?). Not something I'd do, but something I suppose those with balls big enough to hack their hardware might be interested in.

finalcut
Jun 27, 2011, 03:28 PM
Did anyone try the trim enabler application on 10.6.8 with third party SSD?

edit: nevermind, a new version was released by the author (http://www.groths.org/)
edit2: just applied the trim enabler and it is working now on 10.6.8

joesuburb
Jun 27, 2011, 03:31 PM
10.6.8 still has no love for my TS256A :(


APPLE SSD TS256A:

Capacity: 251 GB (251,000,193,024 bytes)
Model: APPLE SSD TS256A
Revision: AGAB0202
Serial Number: 799S106GT0SZ
Native Command Queuing: No
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1
Macintosh HD:
Capacity: 250.39 GB (250,387,783,680 bytes)
Available: 72.08 GB (72,084,054,016 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /

zin
Jun 27, 2011, 03:32 PM
The graphics improvements are very welcome.

Bafflefish
Jun 27, 2011, 03:33 PM
Because "as users who have installed third-party SSDs into their machines have reported that TRIM is not enabled by the update" might not matter because how many of them are having the controller do the TRIM already?

TRIM is an OS-related feature. It's not available for use unless the OS (or in some cases another application within the OS) supports it.

You're probably thinking of how some SSDs implement their own garbage collection, which doesn't require OS support. The benefit of TRIM is that the OS is able to essentially handle the logistics of garbage collection, which results in better long-term write performance.

dwwd
Jun 27, 2011, 03:34 PM
I'm thinking about adding an optibay (with a 750gb 7200rpm drive) and a 250gb SSD for the os in my MBP.... Is this TRIM something i should worry about?

Helghast
Jun 27, 2011, 03:36 PM
Support for only Apple SSD's? That sucks! Does anyone know if third party drives have trim support in Lion?

macnisse
Jun 27, 2011, 03:37 PM
TRIM support is possible to enable for most SSDs, just go for it! :D

CubusX
Jun 27, 2011, 03:39 PM
Thanks to TRIM enabler I have TRIM support on my MacBook Pro late 2008 model on a 512 GB Kingston SSD.

Any running a non Apple SSD should get this on their Mac fast.

arn
Jun 27, 2011, 03:41 PM
Update: To clarify Apple's TRIM support, the new MacBook Pros released in February shipped with a special build of Mac OS X 10.6.6 that included TRIM support for Apple SSDs. But that TRIM support had not been extended to all SSD-configurable Macs until the release of Mac OS X 10.6.8 last week.

mrfoof82
Jun 27, 2011, 03:42 PM
Only for official Apple drives?

Ouch! :eek:
Apple is not in the business of writing firmware for every storage vendor's devices. Apple has created support for TRIM in the operating system. Get on your device's manufacturer's case for adding support for it in OS X.

stridemat
Jun 27, 2011, 03:45 PM
How easy (or hard) does anyone think this would be to 'hack' to work with third party drives?

KPOM
Jun 27, 2011, 03:47 PM
Apple is not in the business of writing firmware for every storage vendor's devices. Apple has created support for TRIM in the operating system. Get on your device's manufacturer's case for adding support for it in OS X.

Windows 7 supports TRIM on a wide range of SSDs, and there are third party hacks that enable TRIM on any SSD where the firmware supports it (which is almost every drive shipped now). It wouldn't be difficult for Apple to do the same.

mungler
Jun 27, 2011, 03:47 PM
http://www.groths.org/?p=308 - enabler for 10.6.7 (not sure if it needs to be updated for the 10.6.8 build)

tigres
Jun 27, 2011, 03:48 PM
There she blows :D

Joelb955
Jun 27, 2011, 03:48 PM
Probably Not going to be really Noticeable but its cool that apple does stuff like this with the OS Updates :) I absolutely <3 my 13" i7!

CubusX
Jun 27, 2011, 03:49 PM
http://www.groths.org/?p=308 - enabler for 10.6.7 (not sure if it needs to be updated for the 10.6.8 build)

The version for 10.6.7 worksed for 10.6.8.

joskewarez
Jun 27, 2011, 03:49 PM
Trim enabler for 10.6.8 http://www.groths.org/?p=387

'Apple' SSD's are rebranded overpriced crap
Go buy a real Intel or OCZ SSD

emt1
Jun 27, 2011, 03:58 PM
Does this mean that deleted files will be rendered unrecoverable fairly quickly?

econgeek
Jun 27, 2011, 04:05 PM
Good drives- like Sandforce or Intel based SSDs-- do not need TRIM. TRIM is only useful for dumb flash drives, and you shouldn't use them anyway, because, even with TRIM their useful life is likely to be only a couple years.

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2011, 04:06 PM
Does this mean that deleted files will be rendered unrecoverable fairly quickly?

Yes, before you've even moved you hand away from the [OK] button. ;)

Actually, though, it depends. If "delete" moves the files to a "trash" directory or "recycle bin" - there's no difference from a system without TRIM.

If "delete", however, actually "permanently deletes" the file - with TRIM it will be extremely unlikely that it is recoverable by any "find deleted files" utility.

Those utilities usually work on the assumption that the file system meta-data for the file is marked "deleted", but in fact the rest of the meta-data and the actual file data is still intact. These "deleted" entries will in fact be correct until the meta-data record or the actual file data is overwritten with a new file. If you run the "find deleted files" utility, it looks for meta-data records marked "deleted" - and will try to recover the file.

With TRIM, however, a command is sent to the solid state drive to notify it that the file data is free. The drive will add those sectors to a background task that erases free space and puts in on the available list. (Unlike a spinning hard drive, SSD sectors cannot be simply overwritten with new data - the sector (usually a "page" containing quite a few sectors) must be "erased", and then it can be written.)

The key to maintaining SSD performance is to ensure that the drive has a big pool of already erased pages. That lets a write completely quickly. If there are no free pages, then the drive has to move a bunch of sectors out of a page into partially used pages, and then erase the page, and then write the incoming sectors into newly erased page. This can make writes much slower.

orfeas0
Jun 27, 2011, 04:06 PM
Does this mean that deleted files will be rendered unrecoverable fairly quickly?

What if they are? If you want a file, don't delete it.
No offense, but why would you want to recover a deleted file? I mean you already have the option to recover it from the trash... If you delete it from the trash then you probably don't need it at all (or you should have thought better)

Yamcha
Jun 27, 2011, 04:06 PM
That truly sucks, now although we have trim enabler I don't see why Apple doesn't want to support other branded SSD's..

doug in albq
Jun 27, 2011, 04:08 PM
I noticed the graphics improvements in this update.

I skipped 10.6.7 entirely because of its poor graphics performance—in games and with HD video in full screen on an external display with my 2010 MBP.

10.6.8 is working great!...on both the MBP and even the 2.0 C2D Mac Mini!!

Grimmeh
Jun 27, 2011, 04:08 PM
I have a MacBook Pro (MacBookPro5,5) with a factory 128 GB SSD (APPLE SSD TS128A) on 10.6.8 with TRIM support reported as “no.”

Bokito
Jun 27, 2011, 04:09 PM
The graphics tests are 100% unfounded. Xbench is an app that isn't updated for almost 5 years now. I haven't seen any real world differences in the games I play, so the speed increase is likely due to some odd behavior from Xbench on newer systems. Any self-respecting journalist would try to get confirmation for the claims and would know that anything relating to Xbench should be ignored.

Speedy2
Jun 27, 2011, 04:09 PM
Apple is not in the business of writing firmware for every storage vendor's devices. Apple has created support for TRIM in the operating system. Get on your device's manufacturer's case for adding support for it in OS X.

TRIM is a standard ATA feature, similar to SATA 6G. There's no need for Apple to write firmware or drivers for anyone in order to support it. Either a SSD has the capability (which will be announced to the OS if it asks nicely), or it doesn't. In the latter case, it won't work on Windows or with TRIM Enabler either. Apple has just decided not to enable it on other drives for political reasons. There's no technical reason. Windows supports TRIM generally, so could OS X.

Dark Void
Jun 27, 2011, 04:11 PM
so, what exactly does "graphic improvements" detail? looks the same to me..

a.gomez
Jun 27, 2011, 04:11 PM
I installed an OCZ Vertex 2 on my macmini - sounds like I wont get TRIM but guess Ill see when I get home.

Probably Not going to be really Noticeable but its cool that apple does stuff like this with the OS Updates :) I absolutely <3 my 13" i7!

hmm, not really - better if the user can update things like video drivers - it is just a way for Apple to control what you put in your Mac or limit features.

glad you like yours thou.

jonnysods
Jun 27, 2011, 04:17 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A5248d)

graphics improvement, good news for sandy bridge macbooks limited to the hd3000! and ofc for everyone else ;P

I'm excited about this. But a little weary as a lot of people have been reporting strange issues with their machines.

MovingWater
Jun 27, 2011, 04:18 PM
I have a MacBook Pro (MacBookPro5,5) with a factory 128 GB SSD on 10.6.8 with TRIM support reported as “no.”

I've a MacBook Air (2,1) with a factory "APPLE SSD SM128" on 10.6.8 with TRIM support also reported as "no".

manu chao
Jun 27, 2011, 04:23 PM
I have a SAMSUNG MMDOE56G5MXP-0VB in a 2009 13" MBP, supposedly exactly the same model that Apple did put into their 13" MBPs in 2009 but naturally not labelled 'APPLE SSD'. Thus, no luck.
I get by with running the refresh command of Lloyd Chambers disk tools. Supposedly restores full performance if run on an empty drive.

Mumford
Jun 27, 2011, 04:25 PM
10.6.8 still has no love for my TS256A :(

Same here :(

scottsjack
Jun 27, 2011, 04:28 PM
so, what exactly does "graphic improvements" detail? looks the same to me..

In my case I use my MBP 2.4 CTD and MP 3.2 quite a bit so I notice when they feel "different". Since the update apps like iPhoto, iTunes and Safari seem to open and operate faster.

Whether it's because of program execution or screen drawing I don't know. But both machines feel faster in a very general sense.

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2011, 04:34 PM
...a SSD with a SandFore (trim handled by controller).

Sandforce cannot do TRIM in the controller. It can run proactive garbage collection in the background to help ensure an adequate pool of erased pages. This keeps performance high as long as the SSD has a big pool of "invisible" pages - but it also causes unnecessary wear on the drive as the garbage collection will copy unused data while garbage collecting.


(it sure sounds like it because TRIM support is simply about issuing a command to the controller, right

Apple is not in the business of writing firmware for every storage vendor's devices. Apple has created support for TRIM in the operating system. Get on your device's manufacturer's case for adding support for it in OS X.

TRIM is a standard (albeit optional) SATA command. It is a simple command where the OS tells the drive that "sectors XXX through YYY are free".

It has nothing to do with "Apple writing firmware". If the drive identifies itself as "TRIM support=YES", then the OS simply adds the "send TRIM command" to the file system code that puts blocks on the file system free list.

That's why Windows supports TRIM on any device that claims it supports TRIM.


Good drives- like Sandforce or Intel based SSDs-- do not need TRIM. TRIM is only useful for dumb flash drives, and you shouldn't use them anyway, because, even with TRIM their useful life is likely to be only a couple years.

"Good drives" are "better drives" if you can send them TRIM commands. While the performance of Sandforce drives holds up better than earlier drives, TRIM will help them last longer.

Can you name any drives with 2 year MTBF?

bened
Jun 27, 2011, 04:44 PM
No Trim with my MacBookAir 2.1 Late 2008 with original SSD.

emt1
Jun 27, 2011, 04:50 PM
What if they are? If you want a file, don't delete it.
No offense, but why would you want to recover a deleted file? I mean you already have the option to recover it from the trash... If you delete it from the trash then you probably don't need it at all (or you should have thought better)

I'm not an idiot. When I delete a file I intend for it to be deleted.

PBG4 Dude
Jun 27, 2011, 05:11 PM
I'm not an idiot. When I delete a file I intend for it to be deleted.

If SSDs are more resistant to "forensic analysis" compared to HDDs then I'm all for it. :)

[ETA]
My TS128C shows TRIM Support: Yes in 10.6.8 . :)

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2011, 05:22 PM
I'm not an idiot. When I delete a file I intend for it to be deleted.

Before this post, I'd never met a perfect human.

I still haven't.

Macsterguy
Jun 27, 2011, 05:28 PM
I know one thing... My son better start TRIMMING the garbage on trash day...

tigres
Jun 27, 2011, 05:41 PM
I know one thing... My son better start TRIMMING the garbage on trash day...

Aka- his porn :D

Legion93
Jun 27, 2011, 05:48 PM
Nice way to go Steve :rolleyes:
I've had TRIM on my MBA since last year :D

ppc_michael
Jun 27, 2011, 05:54 PM
I'm looking forward to 10.7 to fix my Fermi Freeze! :eek:

Hey Jude
Jun 27, 2011, 05:55 PM
...to 10.6.8 on my 3.2 MBA and TRIM support is enabled :D

Maltz
Jun 27, 2011, 05:58 PM
What if they are? If you want a file, don't delete it.
No offense, but why would you want to recover a deleted file? I mean you already have the option to recover it from the trash... If you delete it from the trash then you probably don't need it at all (or you should have thought better)

No offense, but you're putting a lot of words into his mouth. He just asked if it made deleted files unrecoverable more quickly. For all we know, he might consider that a GOOD thing. I know I do. :)

Mercellios
Jun 27, 2011, 06:06 PM
Related to the graphics updates I'm guessing, I have noticed that occasionally upon boot my screen backlight turns off and back on (MacBookPro6,2). It doesn't happen all the time and it's hard to reproduce, but it didn't happen on 10.6.7 or below and a PRAM/SMC reset haven't changed the situation at all.

The following videos show the issue:
Issue occurring where the screen cuts out during boot process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wNsqpENnN8
Regular "seamless" boot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd4Q_OLSrvE

Ive also noticed that the keyboard backlight takes a second or two to kick back in now after the computer has been sitting idle whereas before it would come on instantly when you moved the cursor or pressed a key. This particular issue also seems to occur on the new MacBook Pros (2011 models, even with 10.6.7 on those) so I'm guessing it's something that Apple has changed starting with the special builds for the Feb 2011 MBPs.

Anyone else seeing these behaviors?

TripleCore
Jun 27, 2011, 06:17 PM
Not those. But I am not able to put my system to sleep and my audio out to my mixer is broken.

I'm not impressed with this update.

manu chao
Jun 27, 2011, 06:35 PM
Trim enabler for 10.6.8 http://www.groths.org/?p=387

Ran it (rebooted), still no love (System Profiler shows no TRIM). With a SAMSUNG MMDOE56G5MXP-0VB.

RalfTheDog
Jun 27, 2011, 06:44 PM
Don't care for TRIM support unless its for Intel, OCZ and other superior third party SSD drives. Apple's toshiba rebranded drives are a joke.

What is their excuse for not supporting other drives?

With any luck, non Apple drives will be supported on the release version.

What if they are? If you want a file, don't delete it.
No offense, but why would you want to recover a deleted file? I mean you already have the option to recover it from the trash... If you delete it from the trash then you probably don't need it at all (or you should have thought better)

Sometimes, you delete the file so others can't get it. When I am traveling, I run a very clean build of my computer that does not have files I don't want others to see (Do you know what the cleaning lady does with your computer when you are down at the bar?). That said, the ability to delete files so they can not be retrieved is a good thing.

Question for the board, does anyone know how Trim works with PGP Whole Disk Encryption? How about the Lion native HD encryption? I would assume every sector is marked used all the time, so PGP+SSD=bad.

Justinf79
Jun 27, 2011, 07:04 PM
http://www.groths.org/?p=308 - enabler for 10.6.7 (not sure if it needs to be updated for the 10.6.8 build)

Well that's cool. Hopefully this hack will work with Lion, since I'm prolly going to get a SSD for my MP when I get Lion.

iSayuSay
Jun 27, 2011, 07:28 PM
Someone who was incredibly annoying asked about TRIM support with his new iMac (while he ordered SSD from Apple, he still find it hard to believe that Apple has enabled TRIM for his new super expensive machine) ... this article is precisely for him, and nailed it good.

I hope this just opened his eyes about TRIM SUPPORT IN iMac, and BE DONE WITH IT.. and GET OUTTA HERE :D

Oh, well .. :rolleyes:

RalfTheDog
Jun 27, 2011, 07:31 PM
Well that's cool. Hopefully this hack will work with Lion, since I'm prolly going to get a SSD for my MP when I get Lion.

With any luck, you won't need a hack with the production version of the OS.

danhtb
Jun 27, 2011, 07:41 PM
I've noticed significant increases in graphics performance in 10.6.8, especially when using Aperture (MacBook Pro 15", 2.2 i7, 4 gb ram, early 2011 model). Previously under 10.6.7, Aperture would take 2-3 seconds to load each photo as you scrolled through them in full-screen. Now the pictures instantly as you scroll through. I was very disappointed with the speed of my Mac when I bought it and upgraded to 10.6.7, especially because I was updating to take advantage of the supposed graphics capabilities of the new macbook pros with dual graphics cards, so this is a good update.

tfehlberg
Jun 27, 2011, 07:52 PM
unfortunately :confused: no TRIM here ... i have a MBA2,1 the second issue of MBA with the 128Gb SSD and even with 10.6.8 TRIM is not enabled ... any ideas if the update applied to ALL the SSDs Apple used in ALL their computers? Or if some are still excluded?

interconnect
Jun 27, 2011, 08:19 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)

Good drives- like Sandforce or Intel based SSDs-- do not need TRIM. TRIM is only useful for dumb flash drives, and you shouldn't use them anyway, because, even with TRIM their useful life is likely to be only a couple years.

That is not true whatsoever.

Dark Void
Jun 27, 2011, 08:28 PM
In my case I use my MBP 2.4 CTD and MP 3.2 quite a bit so I notice when they feel "different". Since the update apps like iPhoto, iTunes and Safari seem to open and operate faster.

Whether it's because of program execution or screen drawing I don't know. But both machines feel faster in a very general sense.

i'm glad that you're seeing improvements, but i hardly notice a difference, if anything it feels slower in some points, mainly pulling it out of sleep.

Economist101
Jun 27, 2011, 08:31 PM
Apple has just decided not to enable it on other drives for political reasons. There's no technical reason. Windows supports TRIM generally, so could OS X.

Windows has to support Trim generally, since otherwise it would be virtually useless in light of Windows' licensing to multiple vendors. Since Apple isn't licensing OS X to any other vendors, they don't have to support Trim generally. It's not "political," it's practical.

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2011, 08:52 PM
Windows has to support Trim generally, since otherwise it would be virtually useless in light of Windows' licensing to multiple vendors. Since Apple isn't licensing OS X to any other vendors, they don't have to support Trim generally. It's not "political," it's practical.

Huh?

TRIM is a standard but optional ATA feature.

When you buy an SSD, it will report to the OS whether it supports TRIM as part of the device identification protocol.

Apple are being d#ckheads in ignoring the device's support for TRIM if it isn't one of the Apple supplied SSDs.

Windows is simply accepting the device's claim that it supports TRIM, and if so sending the TRIM commands to the device. Licensing has nothing to do with it - Windows is simply accepting the device's claim that it supports TRIM.

kasey01
Jun 27, 2011, 09:04 PM
I bought a used 256GB Apple branded Toshiba (TS256B) off of ebay for my mid 2009 macbook pro. Under 10.6.7, there was a "no" next to TRIM. Under 10.6.8, it says "yes" next to TRIM.

mdgm
Jun 27, 2011, 09:33 PM
unfortunately :confused: no TRIM here ... i have a MBA2,1 the second issue of MBA with the 128Gb SSD and even with 10.6.8 TRIM is not enabled ... any ideas if the update applied to ALL the SSDs Apple used in ALL their computers? Or if some are still excluded?
Perhaps your SSD does not support TRIM. If an SSD does not support TRIM an OS update is not going to change that.

cactus33
Jun 27, 2011, 09:36 PM
Very odd, because while I get a negligible graphics increase from 10.6.8, I get a significant CPU performance decrease moving from 10.6.6 & 7 to 8. After doing the maths, my computer is now 6% slower due to this update. Not very happy.

This is according to Novabench, and I don't know how reputable the tests are.

[Left] 10.6.7 (says 10.6.6 - but it's a problem with the save file)
[Right] 10.6.8 (will say 10.6.6 when I save it - LOL)

Stridder44
Jun 27, 2011, 10:46 PM
Haha Quake 3 as a benchmark?

a.gomez
Jun 28, 2011, 12:12 AM
MBA 3.2 = TRIM
MacMini with OCZ Vertex 2 = No TRIM

just as they said it would be :rolleyes:

Blue Sun
Jun 28, 2011, 01:28 AM
Related to the graphics updates I'm guessing, I have noticed that occasionally upon boot my screen backlight turns off and back on (MacBookPro6,2). It doesn't happen all the time and it's hard to reproduce, but it didn't happen on 10.6.7 or below and a PRAM/SMC reset haven't changed the situation at all.

The following videos show the issue:
Issue occurring where the screen cuts out during boot process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wNsqpENnN8
Regular "seamless" boot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd4Q_OLSrvE

Ive also noticed that the keyboard backlight takes a second or two to kick back in now after the computer has been sitting idle whereas before it would come on instantly when you moved the cursor or pressed a key. This particular issue also seems to occur on the new MacBook Pros (2011 models, even with 10.6.7 on those) so I'm guessing it's something that Apple has changed starting with the special builds for the Feb 2011 MBPs.

Anyone else seeing these behaviors?

I am also experiencing these behaviours, the integrated intel graphics does seem snappier though.

Running a 2.4GHz i5 15" 2010 MBP.

Truffy
Jun 28, 2011, 01:54 AM
better if the user can update things like video drivers - it is just a way for Apple to control what you put in your Mac or limit features.
Or control the crap that people install. Locking in users to hardware/drivers (supposedly) protects the integrity of the system. Windows has a far more open policy, and look where that got it.

But I do think that not enabling TRIM for non-Apple drives is a bit petty. Surely that can't be another "bag of hurt", Steve?
What if they are? If you want a file, don't delete it.
No offense, but why would you want to recover a deleted file? I mean you already have the option to recover it from the trash... If you delete it from the trash then you probably don't need it at all (or you should have thought better)
Some of us mere mortals make mistakes. Have you ever changed your mind?
(Do you know what the cleaning lady does with your computer when you are down at the bar?).
That's what log-in security is for, no? :rolleyes:

YoGramMamma
Jun 28, 2011, 01:54 AM
Is anyone else noticing any strange behavior after the 10.6.8 update, like their dock is running some rogue processes? I updated to 10.6.8 and did the thunderbolt update on my 27" i7 iMac with the SSD from apple, and while my TRIM support is enabled, I've been noticing a few other hiccups that I have otherwise not seen in this machine... namely the Dock using 100% of my processors (out of 800%) and even after restarting the computer a few times it still does it, soon as its fully booted.
I've tried the KillAll command in terminal and a few other things that I know to do and none of it fixes the issue. :/
http://chriscrutchfield.dreamhosters.com/images/wtfdock.png

SeaFox
Jun 28, 2011, 02:14 AM
That truly sucks, now although we have trim enabler I don't see why Apple doesn't want to support other branded SSD's..
Because they'd rather you buy your SSD from them than add it yourself later and save money. DUH. :rolleyes:

Hey Jude
Jun 28, 2011, 05:19 AM
MBA 3.2 = TRIM
MacMini with OCZ Vertex 2 = No TRIM

just as they said it would be :rolleyes:

My experience also: 3.2 MBA - yes; 6.2 MBP with Intel SSD, nope!

Mac32
Jun 28, 2011, 05:55 AM
Hmm.. Apple is getting too greedy IMO. Will Lion support TRIM with other third-party SSD brands? If not, shame on Apple!

ghostlines
Jun 28, 2011, 07:11 AM
I'm planning on pickup up a OCZ SSD today, should I just bite the bullet and hope that the TRIM enabler works and everything works fine?

Real bummer that Apple is acting this way, I'm really hoping this isn't the case with the final release of Lion.

hexx
Jun 28, 2011, 07:13 AM
Just installed TRIM Enabler on my 13" MBP late 2009 (MacBookPro 5.5) with 120GB OCZ Vertex2 - and it works! thanks for the tip, whoever posted the link here

man02195
Jun 28, 2011, 07:23 AM
Is anyone else noticing any strange behavior after the 10.6.8 update, like their dock is running some rogue processes? I updated to 10.6.8 and did the thunderbolt update on my 27" i7 iMac with the SSD from apple, and while my TRIM support is enabled, I've been noticing a few other hiccups that I have otherwise not seen in this machine... namely the Dock using 100% of my processors (out of 800%) and even after restarting the computer a few times it still does it, soon as its fully booted.
I've tried the KillAll command in terminal and a few other things that I know to do and none of it fixes the issue. :/
Image (http://chriscrutchfield.dreamhosters.com/images/wtfdock.png)

https://discussions.apple.com/message/15489327#15489327

macsmurf
Jun 28, 2011, 08:35 AM
I'm planning on pickup up a OCZ SSD today, should I just bite the bullet and hope that the TRIM enabler works and everything works fine?

Real bummer that Apple is acting this way, I'm really hoping this isn't the case with the final release of Lion.

Trim enabler works.

The Apple restriction is purely artificial. The IO kernel extension looks up the model name of the drive and bails out if it isn't "APPLE SSD". Trim enabler disables that check and then everything works correctly.

Because of that it is pretty unlikely that anything will change in Lion.

Glassman
Jun 28, 2011, 10:10 AM
No Trim with my MacBookAir 2.1 Late 2008 with original SSD.

No TRIM on Early 2008 MBA either, unsurprisingly..

ghostlines
Jun 28, 2011, 12:19 PM
Trim enabler works.

The Apple restriction is purely artificial. The IO kernel extension looks up the model name of the drive and bails out if it isn't "APPLE SSD". Trim enabler disables that check and then everything works correctly.

Because of that it is pretty unlikely that anything will change in Lion.

Seems like you know what you're talking about. I bit the bullet and bought the OZC Agility 3 and threw it in my Macbook late 2008. By default TRIM wasn't enabled but after I installed TRIM enabler it's now enabled. Will be doing some of the famous test people are doing down the line. But the SSD really seems amazingly fast. Boot time about 20 secs, and all apps so far just launch with one bounce!:eek:

wesg
Jun 28, 2011, 01:20 PM
Anyone have a technical reason for not enabling TRIM on 3rd party drives or is it simply a business choice?

alien2108
Jun 28, 2011, 02:14 PM
Enabling TRIM all over SSD drives does not seem to be such a good idea. For example Vertex 3 does not need TRIM as it efficiently does garbage collection inside FW already. At least that is the info regarding OS X on OCZ forums! Also many users reported problems (short freezes etc.) when using TRIM enabler...My guess is we should wait a little do get more info on that issues....

kps
Jun 28, 2011, 02:42 PM
What is their excuse for not supporting other drives?

You're holding it wrong.

gertruded
Jun 28, 2011, 04:41 PM
I was visiting the Madison, Wi Apple store today. I examined the Macbook Air machines on the tables to see for myself that TRIM is now enabled.

None of the machines in the store had 10.6.8 loaded. All had 10.6.7. I ask a sales person on the floor about TRIM and he did not know what I was talking about.

Daveoc64
Jun 28, 2011, 07:19 PM
I was visiting the Madison, Wi Apple store today. I examined the Macbook Air machines on the tables to see for myself that TRIM is now enabled.

None of the machines in the store had 10.6.8 loaded. All had 10.6.7. I ask a sales person on the floor about TRIM and he did not know what I was talking about.

Some newer MacBook products have been shipped with a version of 10.6.7 that included TRIM support.

Apple does this often when it introduces new products.

kalex
Jun 28, 2011, 07:39 PM
Anyone have a technical reason for not enabling TRIM on 3rd party drives or is it simply a business choice?

Yes its called Greed or iGreed

cosmos
Jun 29, 2011, 01:11 AM
Yes its called Greed or iGreed

iGreed, that is a good one.

If it were not for the outcry, it would not surprise me if Apple checked for Apple branded memory and locked up the system if your system had third party memory installed. This is something that printer companies have been known to do in requiring specially branded very high priced memory.

Good thing that the trim enabler works for third party drives. I love most Apple HW, but when there are better and lower cost alternatives it makes no sense not to use them.

I personally would take any current Macsales SSD over anything that Apple is offering. Better speed, warranty and much lower cost too.

andreiru
Jun 29, 2011, 08:49 AM
Only for official Apple drives?

Ouch! :eek:

Yep, looks that way over here. :apple:

andreiru
Jun 29, 2011, 09:07 AM
http://www.groths.org/?p=308 - enabler for 10.6.7 (not sure if it needs to be updated for the 10.6.8 build)

That seems to have worked well, thanks! Just rebooted & that seems to have fixed some lag I had before when after every restart I had to manually relaunch many applications like chat, mail, Chrome to get them working without lag where as now I didn't! Time will tell! Thanks! I have a SandForce SSD installed by the way. Chrome has become quuite noticeably snappier too! Many of the pages now load in a tenth of a second. This is great!

GVWR
Jun 29, 2011, 10:15 AM
MBP 5,3 with Apple TS256A.
TRIM Support still says “NO” in System Profiler after 10.6.8 update.
Any ideas?

gulliver
Jun 30, 2011, 06:04 AM
Unfortunately I cannot confirm the graphics improvement. On both my MacPros 3.1 w/GeForce 8800 and 4.1 w/ATI 4870 the Quartz and OpenGL Test are almost exactly the same as before, but the User Interface Test is 15% SLOWER than with 10.6.7!

Danielle3
Jul 9, 2011, 10:15 PM
10.6.8 still has no love for my TS256A :(


APPLE SSD TS256A:

Capacity: 251 GB (251,000,193,024 bytes)
Model: APPLE SSD TS256A
Revision: AGAB0202
Serial Number: 799S106GT0SZ
Native Command Queuing: No
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1
Macintosh HD:
Capacity: 250.39 GB (250,387,783,680 bytes)
Available: 72.08 GB (72,084,054,016 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /

joesuburb, I have the exact same SSD on my MBP15" and the Trim Support still says "NO" after applying the 10.6.8 update. Have you found any information on why we do not have the Trim Support enabled?

Thanks for your help.

Danielle

JimmyDreams
Aug 3, 2011, 09:53 PM
Resurrecting a dead thread:

My 27" iMac has TRIM enabled for my SSD. Do I have to install a TRIM program to get the benefits or is it 'built-in' to Lion and I don't have to do anything??

I paid enough for this SSD, I want it running at optimum speed....

:)

emt1
Aug 4, 2011, 12:30 AM
Resurrecting a dead thread:

My 27" iMac has TRIM enabled for my SSD. Do I have to install a TRIM program to get the benefits or is it 'built-in' to Lion and I don't have to do anything??

I paid enough for this SSD, I want it running at optimum speed....

:)

Lion will handle everything for you.

JimmyDreams
Aug 4, 2011, 08:39 AM
Lion will handle everything for you.

Thanks!