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MacRumors
Jun 28, 2011, 02:14 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/28/google-launches-swiffy-flash-to-html5-converter/)


Google today announced (http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2011/06/swiffy-convert-swf-files-to-html5.html) the launch of Google Swiffy (http://swiffy.googlelabs.com/), a new Google Labs effort to produce a tool capable of converting Flash content to HTML5 for display on non-Flash devices such as the iPhone and iPad.You can upload a SWF file, and Swiffy will produce an HTML5 version which will run in modern browsers with a high level of SVG support such as Chrome and Safari. It's still an early version, so it won't convert all Flash content, but it already works well on ads and animations.Google has posted a small gallery (http://swiffy.googlelabs.com/gallery.html) showing examples of Flash content converted to HTML5 by Swiffy.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/swiffy_symphony_orchestra_comparison_still.jpg


Earlier this year, Adobe released its own Flash-to-HTML5 converter known as "Wallaby" (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/08/adobe-debuts-wallaby-prerelease-flash-to-html5-converter/). Neither Wallaby nor Swiffy is yet able to handle advanced Flash animations for such content complex interactive games, but both companies are obviously looking for ways to make it easy to move Flash content onto non-Flash devices. As Google notes in its Swiffy FAQ (http://swiffy.googlelabs.com/faq.html), Wallaby is designed to produce editable code by reusing some of the Flash elements in the HTML5 result, while Swiffy's focus is simply on presentation and yields a less-editable final product.

Article Link: Google Launches 'Swiffy' Flash-to-HTML5 Converter (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/28/google-launches-swiffy-flash-to-html5-converter/)



jackhdev
Jun 28, 2011, 02:19 PM
WOW, this is such a great tool, and I can't believe it exists! Now I can make some websites in Flash (in my opinion, a much easier to use tool), and I can most likely easily convert all of it to HTML5. I can't wait to use it!

nagromme
Jun 28, 2011, 02:30 PM
I doesn’t really work with my own Flash creations (at least the couple I tested), but I like these new options that are evolving! There are no perfect solutions yet, but at least we’re seeing progress. I’m impressed by how much does work.

baleensavage
Jun 28, 2011, 02:31 PM
I shudder to think of the garbage code these automatic converters are going to create. IMHO a much better solution is to have a development environment that is able to output both Flash and HTML5 content rather than a basic converter that takes Flash content and shoehorns it into HTML5 output.

Now if this was an iOS app that could load Flash pages on the fly by converting them to HTML5, that would be another story...

baryon
Jun 28, 2011, 02:32 PM
WOW, this is such a great tool, and I can't believe it exists! Now I can make some websites in Flash (in my opinion, a much easier to use tool), and I can most likely easily convert all of it to HTML5. I can't wait to use it!

We all wish that were true, but the reality is that these tools are crap. They won't convert anything much more complex than 2 circles tweening from left to right, unfortunately. Adobe should just make it so that Flash outputs in HTML, if that's even possible.

oheckyeah
Jun 28, 2011, 02:34 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this does not make grammatical sense to me:

"Neither Wallaby nor Swiffy is yet able to handle advanced Flash animations for such content complex interactive games..."

I know what they are trying to say, and I don't mind the occasional mistake, but it has been a recent trend on MacRumors that there are grammatical and/or spelling errors in posts. Is there no editor? Or do those posting not at least read through what they have written before posting?

In an attempt to look professional and thereby increase credibility, I feel like some editing should be going on here.

djrod
Jun 28, 2011, 02:50 PM
WOW, this is such a great tool, and I can't believe it exists! Now I can make some websites in Flash (in my opinion, a much easier to use tool), and I can most likely easily convert all of it to HTML5. I can't wait to use it!

who in their right mind would design websites in Flash?

charliex5
Jun 28, 2011, 03:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this does not make grammatical sense to me:

"Neither Wallaby nor Swiffy is yet able to handle advanced Flash animations for such content complex interactive games..."

I know what they are trying to say, and I don't mind the occasional mistake, but it has been a recent trend on MacRumors that there are grammatical and/or spelling errors in posts. Is there no editor? Or do those posting not at least read through what they have written before posting?

In an attempt to look professional and thereby increase credibility, I feel like some editing should be going on here.

I have to agree. There have been tons of errors recently to the point that its getting annoying. What's happening to my MacRumors?!

autrefois
Jun 28, 2011, 04:06 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this does not make grammatical sense to me:

"Neither Wallaby nor Swiffy is yet able to handle advanced Flash animations for such content complex interactive games..."

I think it means that Wallaby and Swiffy can't do Flash yet for happy, complicated games that are also interactive.

But seriously, my guess is that MacRumors is just increasingly inundated with news and submissions. It's still tops IMHO. It must be difficult to balance speed, coverage, and accuracy. Apple and others in the industry just need to stop developing so much stuff! :D

Anonymous Freak
Jun 28, 2011, 04:33 PM
WOW, this is such a great tool, and I can't believe it exists! Now I can make some websites in Flash (in my opinion, a much easier to use tool), and I can most likely easily convert all of it to HTML5. I can't wait to use it!

Please don't.

The vast majority of Flash websites are crap. Even if the ones you create are the exception, don't use an automated tool to do what you should have done in the first place - program in HTML5.

If you're going to make an HTML5 website, take the time to learn to do it properly.

(Note, I have no basis of comparison for your Flash websites, you could very well be one of the people who designs them well, I have seen good Flash website designers. But even the best-made Flash website would suck ass when run through this converter. As Google admits, it works best on small things like ads.)

emvath
Jun 28, 2011, 04:53 PM
Swiffy? Isn't that the thing you use to sweep your hardwood floors? The swiffy quicky-picker-upper!

The Phazer
Jun 28, 2011, 05:58 PM
who in their right mind would design websites in Flash?

People who want many of the features that HTML5 doesn't offer? Or doesn't want terrible animation performance?

Phazer

winston1236
Jun 28, 2011, 07:09 PM
who in their right mind would design websites in Flash?

someone not interested in viewers on the mobile platform

winston1236
Jun 28, 2011, 07:09 PM
Swiffy? Isn't that the thing you use to sweep your hardwood floors? The swiffy quicky-picker-upper!

no thats swiffer

winston1236
Jun 28, 2011, 07:10 PM
Please don't.

The vast majority of Flash websites are crap. Even if the ones you create are the exception, don't use an automated tool to do what you should have done in the first place - program in HTML5.

If you're going to make an HTML5 website, take the time to learn to do it properly.

(Note, I have no basis of comparison for your Flash websites, you could very well be one of the people who designs them well, I have seen good Flash website designers. But even the best-made Flash website would suck ass when run through this converter. As Google admits, it works best on small things like ads.)

Ads are where google makes their money so they have a huge interest in their ads running on non flash devices

Daveoc64
Jun 28, 2011, 07:51 PM
People who want many of the features that HTML5 doesn't offer? Or doesn't want terrible animation performance?

Phazer

Quite.

If you look at the demos provided, you'll see that the Flash versions use less CPU % than the HTML5 generated alternatives.

I don't think any browser currently uses hardware acceleration to render SVG.

jayducharme
Jun 28, 2011, 08:57 PM
This seems to be an interesting move by Google, given that they've been advertising how Android can run Flash. Are they finally conceding that Flash on mobile devices might not give an impressive performance?

DrNeroCF
Jun 28, 2011, 09:56 PM
Uh, I just threw the simplest swfs that I had at it, and apparently it can't even getNextHighestDepth.

Finally I just made a squiggle and run _x ++ on it. Well, that worked...

Not sure how ScaleForm can fully rasterize a swf, but swiffy can hardly do anything.

I guess I'll have to fool with it later...

adrianweller
Jun 28, 2011, 10:50 PM
With PDF!
If you create a document in InDesign, you send it to the printer's as a PDF.
If you create a document in Illustrator, you send it to the printer's as a PDF.
If you create a document in Photoshop, you send it to the printer's as a PDF.
If you create a document in Word, you send it to the printer's as a PDF, and they throw it back in your face (there are some things even Adobe can't fix!!).

The point is, different software can create a common file type that is capable of delivering all of the content exactly as intended. The Postscript RIP at the printer's is the equivalent of the HTML 5 browser.

Adobe need to implement a similar solution with Flash on web browsers.
I'm not saying it's easy, but any company that came up with pure genius like postscript, PDF, and the incredible Transparency flattener (for the print-media people out there) can do it!

Truffy
Jun 29, 2011, 02:22 AM
WOW, this is such a great tool, and I can't believe it exists! Now I can make some websites in Flash (in my opinion, a much easier to use tool), and I can most likely easily convert all of it to HTML5. I can't wait to use it!
If you're developing in Flash, why not just use Wallaby?
Now if this was an iOS app that could load Flash pages on the fly by converting them to HTML5, that would be another story...
Presumably this would require the device to recognise Flash in the first place, and this does not conform to ecosystem rules. It's a bag of hurt man! :rolleyes:
With PDF!
If you create a document in InDesign, you send it to the printer's as a PDF.
If you create a document in Illustrator, you send it to the printer's as a PDF.
If you create a document in Photoshop, you send it to the printer's as a PDF.
If you create a document in Word, you send it to the printer's as a PDF, and they throw it back in your face (there are some things even Adobe can't fix!!).

The point is, different software can create a common file type that is capable of delivering all of the content exactly as intended. The Postscript RIP at the printer's is the equivalent of the HTML 5 browser.

Adobe need to implement a similar solution with Flash on web browsers.
I'm not saying it's easy, but any company that came up with pure genius like postscript, PDF, and the incredible Transparency flattener (for the print-media people out there) can do it!
Converting all those web pages to PDF will take time! :D

bocomo
Jun 29, 2011, 10:18 AM
who in their right mind would design websites in Flash?

thank you!


i HATE visiting websites that are all flash--horrible experience

seems like artists and restaurants are the worst offenders

Jeaz
Jun 29, 2011, 11:07 AM
WOW, this is such a great tool, and I can't believe it exists! Now I can make some websites in Flash (in my opinion, a much easier to use tool), and I can most likely easily convert all of it to HTML5. I can't wait to use it!

Use Hype instead, makes them in HTML5 in a "flash way" natively.

macUser2007
Jun 29, 2011, 11:55 AM
Please don't.

The vast majority of Flash websites are crap. Even if the ones you create are the exception, don't use an automated tool to do what you should have done in the first place - program in HTML5....

Right.... :rolleyes:

Except that in our universe the majority of users will not be able to see your HTMP5 creations in their browsers, while virtually everyone can see the Flash versions.

Plus, for complex animation Flash is way ahead of HTML5....

gregorypierce
Jun 29, 2011, 12:01 PM
Use Hype instead, makes them in HTML5 in a "flash way" natively.

Unfortunately the tool is mostly Hype right now. Swiffy/Flash will allow you to create far more complex thing than you can with Hype today.

rmwebs
Jun 29, 2011, 12:24 PM
Right.... :rolleyes:

Except that in our universe the majority of users will not be able to see your HTMP5 creations in their browsers, while virtually everyone can see the Flash versions.

Plus, for complex animation Flash is way ahead of HTML5....

I think you'll find that every modern web browser can handle HTML5 perfectly fine ;)

A prime example is the forum software, XenForo - its fully HTML5 and is even compatible with IE6.

--

Sidenote: I googled for a copy of flash pacman, downloaded the SWF and ran it through Swiffy. To my surprise, it actually worked and produced a fully functional HTML5 copy (all be it with fugly looking code and it ran pretty slow, but it was playable).

zapnyc
Jun 29, 2011, 01:29 PM
the results in their Gallery definitely don't work in Firefox 3.6.16....Safari no problem.... interesting

e32boy
Jun 29, 2011, 01:54 PM
So I converted a 40K swf with this tool.
Ended up being a 400K file and didn't end up looking exactly like the swf file and plays soooooooo slowwwwwww on my iOS devices.

I don't get this anti flash thing.

The more available options the better for all users.
HTML5 and CSS3 can play nice with swf & flv.

SJ's swf ban has more to do with economics of the app store than a better user experience.

at lease now you can block swf ads.
HTML5? nope.

macUser2007
Jun 29, 2011, 02:29 PM
I think you'll find that every modern web browser can handle HTML5 perfectly fine ;)

...

Perfectly fine?!

Take a look at http://html5test.com/results.html

Not even close....

To boot, Apple's Safari's HTML5 support is behind both Firefox and Google.

To boot even more, iOS 4.3's HTML5 support is behind both Android's and WebOS's.

Anyway, I like HTML5, but I also like Flash. They are both useful. Flash can do way more complex animations, however.

The ban on Flash is because Jobs tried to become the mobile Google with iAd. But iAd is failing miserably, so in a year or so I'd imagine iOS will have Flash. Flash sites run perfectly fine on my Google Nexus S, by the way.

macUser2007
Jun 29, 2011, 03:20 PM
the results in their Gallery definitely don't work in Firefox 3.6.16....Safari no problem.... interesting

They probably will not work in Safari 1.0, either....

You do know that Firefox is currently at version 5, right? (They do work in v5, BTW)

You can always use the Flash version, though. In any browser. :D

Anonymous Freak
Jun 29, 2011, 06:05 PM
Right.... :rolleyes:

Except that in our universe the majority of users will not be able to see your HTMP5 creations in their browsers, while virtually everyone can see the Flash versions.

Plus, for complex animation Flash is way ahead of HTML5....

I don't disagree.

I'm just saying that if your goal is an HTML5 page, don't create it in Flash then use an automated converter to turn it into HTML5. Start with HTML5.

It's like when you see a Mac OS X application that obviously started life as a Windows app, and was badly ported. Just spend the effort to make a native OS X app, your users will be much happier.

roadbloc
Jun 29, 2011, 06:11 PM
From a user perspective, I find Flash > HTML5. Maybe that is probably because most browsers don't support HTML5 fully yet and when thy do, it will kick Flash's butt, but to this day I have yet to have a problem with Flash and I simply do not understand Apple's problem with it.

Nostromo
Jul 2, 2011, 01:35 AM
Currently, many professional photographer portfolios are in Flash.

But their iPhone/iPad sites are HTML mirror sites.

So, quality Flash content IS alread available to the iPhone/iPad. Not only for iPhone/iPad reasons, but also and very much for SEO reasons (Flash sites fare poorly in SEO).

So maybe that Flash content you can't see on the iPad/iPhone is content where the site owners decided against an HTML mirror site. One may wonder if this is quality content and if google's software is really as interesting content-wise as its technical workings (which are astounding if it really works well).

AdrianK
Jul 3, 2011, 05:00 AM
So I converted a 40K swf with this tool.
Ended up being a 400K file and didn't end up looking exactly like the swf file and plays soooooooo slowwwwwww on my iOS devices.

I don't get this anti flash thing.

Hold on, you're saying you don't get why people dislike Flash, based on your experience of Swiffy? Don't you see how that's incredibly biased?

On one side you have code which has been composed in order to make the best use of features present in one language, which you're comparing to code generated by a machine which is just using a set of rules to translate to another language.

Obvious a converter will not spit out code which is as optimised as it could be. It's like expecting Google Translate to spit out something which is 100% accurate.

holmesf
Jul 4, 2011, 01:37 AM
Quite.

If you look at the demos provided, you'll see that the Flash versions use less CPU % than the HTML5 generated alternatives.

I don't think any browser currently uses hardware acceleration to render SVG.

In general (triangles aside) vector graphics are not GPU accelerated on any platform. This includes svg, flash*, pdf, Quartz**, etc. Canvas rendering is typically an order of magnitude faster than the SVG rendering Google is doing.

*only video and compositing are accelerated on flash, not drawing paths and shapes. On the mobile version of flash vector shapes are crudely converted to triangles first.

**When we talk about Quartz Extreme it's still only bitmap drawing, which includes text glyphs and images being accelerated, not drawing paths and shapes.

holmesf
Jul 4, 2011, 02:19 AM
From a user perspective, I find Flash > HTML5. Maybe that is probably because most browsers don't support HTML5 fully yet and when thy do, it will kick Flash's butt, but to this day I have yet to have a problem with Flash and I simply do not understand Apple's problem with it.

The problem is that Flash is responsible for the majority of Safari crashes, and performance optimizing Flash is out of Apple's control.

Besides that there are the usual problems with Flash (doesn't integrate well with web pages, slow, poor Linux support, etc, etc, etc).