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MacRumors
Jun 29, 2011, 12:16 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/29/hp-considering-licensing-webos-samsung-reportedly-interested/)


Bloomberg reports (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-29/hewlett-packard-is-in-talks-to-license-webos-software-ceo-apotheker-says.html) that HP has expressed interest in licensing its webOS mobile operating system to other companies, potentially opening the door for another major competitor in the smartphone and tablet industries."We are talking to a number of companies," Apotheker said in Beijing, declining to elaborate on details. "I can share with you that a number of companies have expressed interest. We are continuing our conversations."The webOS operating system was originally developed by Palm as an answer to iOS, but was not able to gain much ground against Apple's platform and Google's Android. With HP's acquisition (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/28/hp-to-acquire-palm-in-1-2-billion-deal/) of Palm last year, webOS has undergone a transition as HP has attempted to move directly into the smartphone and tablet markets. HP is launching its TouchPad tablet device (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/13/hp-preparing-to-take-on-apple-with-touchpad-potential-cloud-based-media-service/) within the next few days, and has been said to be trying to launch its own cloud-based media service similar in some respects to Apple's iCloud.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/webos_apps.jpg


According to the Bloomberg report, Samsung is one of the companies interested in licensing webOS, presenting an alternative to the Android-based systems currently offered by the manufacturer.A partnership with HP would allow Samsung, which uses Android for its Galaxy Tab tablet computers, to customize devices amid speculation that Google may restrict modifications for phones that use Android, said one of the people, who declined to be named because the talks are private.If HP is able to find success with its new mobile products and Samsung adopts webOS as a leading platform for its own devices, the mobile industry could see a shakeup with webOS becoming a legitimate contender in the race to compete with iOS and Android.

Microsoft has of course been pushing its own Windows Phone operating system as yet another competitive platform, although customer adoption has appeared weak thus far. The company has, however, partnered with Nokia (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/11/nokia-and-microsoft-team-up-in-smartphone-battle/) in a deal to drive that manufacturer's future hardware, a deal that could make Windows Phone another major player if customers embrace the platform.

Article Link: HP Considering Licensing WebOS, Samsung Reportedly Interested (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/29/hp-considering-licensing-webos-samsung-reportedly-interested/)



Rot'nApple
Jun 29, 2011, 12:21 PM
So 1% of the market plus 1% of the market equals... :D

(I know those percentages are made up, just poking fun) ;)
/
/
/

dethmaShine
Jun 29, 2011, 12:21 PM
We will have a real iPad copy this time considering that webOS resembles iOS in a number ways. (A pixi+ user)

Just can't wait to get down ranked for stating the facts.

Consultant
Jun 29, 2011, 12:22 PM
Hopefully it happens, and Samsung can be the next near bankrupt Palm.

0815
Jun 29, 2011, 12:23 PM
My guess is, that if this really takes of, it would be more bad news for Android than iOS.

alectheking
Jun 29, 2011, 12:24 PM
I'd love for all 4 OS's to be mainstream players, no matter how unlikely. It would be fun to see each major update and all the hardware try to compete.

akatsuki
Jun 29, 2011, 12:25 PM
I like how much this post shows that Samsung doesn't get it.

By splintering WebOS, they will lose a lot of their advantage since it will lead to app incompatibility and the rest… The same thing happening to Android is why Google pulled back.

nostaws
Jun 29, 2011, 12:26 PM
I love my iPad2. However, I think this is good. It might be a real competitor to drive some competition in the industry.

I was a palm user all the way from the Pilot -> Treo. While I know the current Palm/HP has no resemblance to the original company, I have a soft spot in my heart for palm.

Heck, is there anyway to get Graffiti on an iPhone? My note taking ability would go through the roof. I can probably write faster using graffiti than with a pencil and paper.

coder12
Jun 29, 2011, 12:29 PM
I love webOS, but I hate the old plastic hardware it's on to death. This would interest me as well...

dethmaShine
Jun 29, 2011, 12:34 PM
Hopefully it happens, and Samsung can be the next near bankrupt Palm.

Well, I am afraid, that's not gonna happen.

nostaws
Jun 29, 2011, 12:34 PM
I like how much this post shows that Samsung doesn't get it.

By splintering WebOS, they will lose a lot of their advantage since it will lead to app incompatibility and the rest… The same thing happening to Android is why Google pulled back.

I disagree. Licensing does not equal Open Source (or Google's pseudo open source). By licensing their OS they can work with the hardware manufactures to ensure some consistency. They will be able to exercise more control than Google has in the Android market.

Apple is running some version of the iOS on many different devices. iTV, iPad 1 & 2 (some with 3g), iPhone 3g, 3gs, 4 (att/verizon). I think HP's OS has some potential.

HP is the closest company to competing with Apple in the tablet market. Their tablet success will led their OS to get into more smart phones as well.

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 12:36 PM
Well there goes WebOS.

The whole point was to *not* license it. To CONTROL the experience. HP had an amazing opportunity here to play Apple's game and perhaps get a taste of what it's like to pursue excellence.

For a moment there I thought "yes, HP gets it."

Oh well.

Licensing doesn't mean open source - at least no be definition. But it will certainly look and fee that way. We all know and have seen the results of licensing. Once you open the door to that, it evenutally becomes unviersal, watered-down, and a coimplete mess. Once the other box-makers and teclos have their way you're pretty much ****ed.

soco
Jun 29, 2011, 12:36 PM
I'm thoroughly excited about the possibilities here.

I'm thoroughly fearful of this turning into an Android fragmentation issue...

wordoflife
Jun 29, 2011, 12:37 PM
THANK GOODNESS!
HP/Palm hardware is rubbish. If they can't figure out how to make the hardware better, then they are better off just licensing the OS. Everyone likes webOS, so Palm would be pretty successful if they put some effort into it. This has potential. Better hardware, more apps, etc.

space1nvaders
Jun 29, 2011, 12:37 PM
Users need to be wary of Apps with nice icons mimicking iOS.

I see where icons will be trademarks for Apps. I don't know that they aren't now because so many App icons look like some other App with only slight differences.

The issue of trademarks is to avoid confusion :confused:

Are we at the point of confusion yet?

Apps usually don't run the same on different OS's so the icon does not represent THE app - only a version of the app.

VulchR
Jun 29, 2011, 12:37 PM
'HP Considering Licensing WebOS, Samsung Reportedly Interested' ... I'm not.

Anybody else think that this item better belongs in a general technology forum and not in MacRumors?

soco
Jun 29, 2011, 12:39 PM
Anybody else think that this item better belongs in a general technology forum and not in MacRumors?

It's well known that MacRumors often reports on industry news as it often has implications for Apple and it's competitors.

HelveticaNeue
Jun 29, 2011, 12:40 PM
This is absolutely fantastic. I would really like to see WebOS dominate over Android. I am really excited to see that the future of computers won't be dominated by any one or two OSs. Multiple platforms all struggling to be the best will provide the innovation required to keep the industry moving forward.

0815
Jun 29, 2011, 12:40 PM
Well there goes WebOS.

The whole point was to *not* license it. To CONTROL the experience. HP had an amazing opportunity here to play Apple's game and perhaps get a taste of what it's like to pursue excellence.

For a moment there I thought "yes, HP gets it."

Oh well.

Licesning doesn't mean open source. But we all know and have seen the results of licensing. Once you open the door to that, it evenutally becomes unviersal, watered-down, and a coimplete mess. Once the other box-makers and teclos have their way you're pretty much ****ed.

You can still keep some 'control' through licensing - all depends on what kind of deal is signed. MS is e.g. maintaining some control over winMob7 phones by requiring certain things (mostly hardware requirements like the 'search button') so that the manufacture is allowed to put winMob7 on the device.

wordoflife
Jun 29, 2011, 12:41 PM
You can still keep some 'control' through licensing - all depends on what kind of deal is signed. MS is e.g. maintaining some control over winMob7 phones by requiring certain things so that the manufacture is allowed to put winMob7 on the device.

This is true.

With that being said, I'm not concerned with 'fragmentation'.
As you said it, WP7 is doing fine.

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
This is absolutely fantastic. I would really like to see WebOS dominate over Android.

Respectfully, no, you don't. What you *really* want to see is for WebOS to be *better* than Android. For that you don't need massive market share, just a better product.

Not controlling the end-to-end experience means you'll get an Android clone. It'll become just as generic as the non-iOS devices.

mixel
Jun 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
Sony should license it and bring back the Clié brand. That would be interesting. (not necessarily successful though.)

I like the competition, id like to see WebOS doing okay.

roy_g_biv
Jun 29, 2011, 12:43 PM
This sounds like a good idea, minus the part about Samsung customizing the experience. WebOS offers the second best user experience behind iOS and, in my opinion, is more attractive than Android. Palm couldn't compete with Apple's hardware or Android's licensing model. Offering the OS would likely cause much more competition for Google than Apple, but would add another credible player to the mobile market.

Maury
Jun 29, 2011, 12:43 PM
HP was throwing a meet-n-greet last night in Toronto and I had a chance to play with the new tablet. I gotta say, it was pretty great.

The task management UI is really light years ahead of my iPhone. Really, it was a fantastic experience to move around the system. Compared to the iPhones "giggly icons", the ability to see small versions of the whole window and move and sort them was great. It was like an even better version of Expose.

There's more to the platform than that, obviously, and HP doesn't have anything like the "ecosystem" of the iWorld. However, they try to make up for this with their 'net neutral systems that supposedly sync with everyone out there. One of my main complaints with my iPhone is that it doesn't sync with my machine at home AND work, which is a real PITA. iCloud may address some of this, but not syncing with things like Facebook. I'm curious to see if this actually works, Ars wasn't too impressed a year ago.

Of course this is HP, so my guess it's going to be completely ignored unless they can find some REAL way to wedge in on the enterprise side. RIM certainly didn't.

0dev
Jun 29, 2011, 12:44 PM
Me gusta.

I really like webOS. I hope it gets on lots of devices and rivals Android.

0815
Jun 29, 2011, 12:44 PM
This is true.

[...] , WP7 is doing fine.

Is it? I still have to see some numbers how many devices reached the customer.

roadbloc
Jun 29, 2011, 12:45 PM
It will be interesting to see if WebOS makes an impact on any major future devices. Since I've never used WebOS, I'm curious as to whether people think this is a waste of time or a good idea.

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 29, 2011, 12:45 PM
My guess is, that if this really takes of, it would be more bad news for Android than iOS.

My thoughts exactly. All these imitations of iOS can only easily take away market share from each other, iOS itself will be much harder to trump.

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 12:45 PM
This is true.

With that being said, I'm not concerned with 'fragmentation'.
As you said it, WP7 is doing fine.

Oh yeah, it's doing fantastic. It's quite happily circling the drain, waiting for the other company that's doing the same, to get moving. Things couldn't be better.

rumz
Jun 29, 2011, 12:46 PM
My guess is, that if this really takes of, it would be more bad news for Android than iOS.

Exactly. iOS doesn't have any real legitimate threats-- Apple's got a strong brand and ecosystem. Android... has a lot of fanboys. I don't see a ton of strong loyalty outside of that.

bazaarsoft
Jun 29, 2011, 12:46 PM
If HP is able to find success with its new mobile products and Samsung adopts webOS as a leading platform for its own devices, the mobile industry could see a shakeup with webOS becoming a legitimate contender in the race to compete with iOS and Android.

So, both of those things must happen for WebOS to become "legitimate"? A "contender"?

Wrong. The former must happen. The latter seems to be the way that's not working very well and why Samsung is looking for a different OS provider. Why would HP be any more successful than Google or Microsoft? Particularly given that Android licensing is likely to be much more attractive?

I won't say this would be disastrous for HP, but they must somehow keep focused on tight integration between WebOS and their hardware and creating an ecosystem that people find usable. These are the things that have made Apple successful and HP is really the only vendor that can challenge them at the moment (they have more resources than RIM and control both sides unlike everyone else).

Having licensees demanding changes/customization isn't a good way to keep focus. It's one reason Palm failed. It's why Microsoft continues to fail in the mobile market. And this is why Google is moving away from supporting unbridled vendor-specific customizations.

FakeWozniak
Jun 29, 2011, 12:46 PM
My guess is, that if this really takes of, it would be more bad news for Android than iOS.

I like this. When Palm was making phones they probably weren't seriously considering licensing the OS. With HP, they probably see that the next big battle is over OS'es and not so much the platform, as smart phone hardware is made a commodity for companies like Samsung, LG, etc.

That battle will have Microsoft versus Google versus HP. Apple of course is hoping for a three way tie, mutual destruction amongst those players. I agree, it will weaken Google and actually probably help Apple.

"Gosh, should I get the Samsung with Android or WebOS, or maybe the Nokia with Meego or Windows Phone 7? ... I'll just stick with simple Apple."

wordoflife
Jun 29, 2011, 12:47 PM
Is it? I still have to see some numbers how many devices reached the customer.

What I wrote would have made more sense if you didn't cut parts out of it :rolleyes:

WP7 has a unified experience all across the board ... it's far from being fragmented, which was what I was getting on.

soco
Jun 29, 2011, 12:49 PM
With HP, they probably see that the next big battle is over OS'es and not so much the platform...

The next big battle? I'm pretty sure that one's been raging for a while now. Hardware is pretty secondary to 90% of the consumers of smartphones.

People like us, however, fall in love with the OS and stick to it like glue, then bounce around from phone to phone on said OS.

Themaeds
Jun 29, 2011, 12:52 PM
'HP Considering Licensing WebOS, Samsung Reportedly Interested' ... I'm not.

Anybody else think that this item better belongs in a general technology forum and not in MacRumors?

I think this post belongs in the Cliche post folder....along with "Vote me down because I'm real and I spit the truth" and "Hey, when companies compete, the consumer wins!"

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 12:52 PM
Somehow I knew they'd find some way to screw it up and completely miss a great opportunity to re-invent themselves.

It's increasingly becoming a situation where it's iOS + everyone else.

It seems everyone's frightened to death of taking the really big risks. The kinds that Apple takes.

But hey, quick cash from licensing is an easy draw when you don't have what it takes.

rumz
Jun 29, 2011, 12:54 PM
Sony should license it and bring back the Clié brand. That would be interesting. (not necessarily successful though.)

I like the competition, id like to see WebOS doing okay.

I thought about Sony too (a la Clié), but the sad truth is that I trust Sony even less than HP to get state of the art hardware and design to market in a timely fashion. If they were quick enough-- I'd love to see some Sony industrial design paired with some WebOS software.

This sounds like a good idea, minus the part about Samsung customizing the experience. WebOS offers the second best user experience behind iOS and, in my opinion, is more attractive than Android. Palm couldn't compete with Apple's hardware or Android's licensing model. Offering the OS would likely cause much more competition for Google than Apple, but would add another credible player to the mobile market.

I actually prefer WebOS's UX to iOS for a few reasons, but iOS is definitely tighter / more polished-- close enough that it boils down to personal preference. But yeah-- easily more attractive to me than Android's UX. But yeah-- I'd love to see WebOS be a real player too.

dethmaShine
Jun 29, 2011, 12:55 PM
Oh yeah, it's doing fantastic. It's quite happily circling the drain, waiting for the other company that's doing the same, to get moving. Things couldn't be better.

Respectfully, no, you don't. What you *really* want to see is for WebOS to be *better* than Android. For that you don't need massive market share, just a better product.

Not controlling the end-to-end experience means you'll get an Android clone. It'll become just as generic as the non-iOS devices.

Could you possibly be more hypocritical?

I use a windows phone 7, namely HTC Mozart 7. It's a great phone that runs a great operating system. After all the love that I gave to webOS and android, WP7 has proved to be a better operating system with an innovative user interface and not just another iOS knockoff.

Sales do matter but its not the end of the earth. I can easily see WP7 gaining a healthy portion of the market in the next 5 years. But the operating system is rock solid and great to use.

Michael Scrip
Jun 29, 2011, 12:58 PM
Well there goes WebOS.

The whole point was to *not* license it. To CONTROL the experience. HP had an amazing opportunity here to play Apple's game and perhaps get a taste of what it's like to pursue excellence.

For a moment there I thought "yes, HP gets it."



Right now... HP/Palm is the sole manufacturer... so how're they doing?

Palm released the origianl Palm Pre on only a handful of carriers. Then they followed it up with the fabulous Pixi.

Palm/HP is NOT Apple in that they can coast on a couple phones. As good as WebOS is... they need some more hardware.

Adding Samsung as an addition hardware maker could actually HELP WebOS.

FakeWozniak
Jun 29, 2011, 12:59 PM
The next big battle? I'm pretty sure that one's been raging for a while now. Hardware is pretty secondary to 90% of the consumers of smartphones.

People like us, however, fall in love with the OS and stick to it like glue, then bounce around from phone to phone on said OS.

The first battle was Apple v Google and the spoils have been divided roughly. The next battle is Google v Microsoft v HP and the latter two are just getting in the fight. There really hasn't been much blood yet between those three, but that will change as these deals start being announced.

I agree with your view. People do favor the OS over the vendor. The question I wonder about is where will the "switchers" come from, Android or iOS? Time will tell. I am sure iOS will loose some, but will Android loose a high %? I think so and agree with 0815 and others.

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 01:01 PM
Could you possibly be more hypocritical?

I use a windows phone 7, namely HTC Mozart 7. It's a great phone that runs a great operating system. After all the love that I gave to webOS and android, WP7 has proved to be a better operating system with an innovative user interface and not just another iOS knockoff.

Too late. Not good enough. Anyone looking to make it big needs to pull off a June, 2007.

WP7, by being "good enough", won't.

Hello, Palm.

You need the entire package now - great OS, robust platform, all ready to go . . . and something really killer to shake up the market - as in, redefining the game completely, a la Apple. Otherwise it'll barely get off the ground.

MS zuned it. Give it a year before they're forced to do a "reset" or use some other interesting euphemism for "failure." Ballmer's got a million of those.



Then they followed it up with the fabulous Pixi.

The what?

dXTC
Jun 29, 2011, 01:01 PM
Hopefully it happens, and Samsung can be the next near bankrupt Palm.

Actually, I wouldn't want Samsung to go belly-up; I rather like their TV displays.

That said, I was presented with the choice between a Samsung phone-- the Infuse, I believe-- and the Motorola Atrix a couple of months ago, and picked the Atrix. The iPhone 4's initial price was too much for a device I intended only as a phone with Mobile Hotspot capabilities. Had Palm not sold to HP, I would have seriously considered the Pre Plus or Pixi Plus.

Jett0516
Jun 29, 2011, 01:06 PM
My guess is, that if this really takes of, it would be more bad news for Android than iOS.

you mean bad news for windows phone 7. :)

2992
Jun 29, 2011, 01:06 PM
My guess is, that if this really takes of, it would be more bad news for Android than iOS.
... for iPad world as well, as, for myself, I'm really looking fwd to make a change soon towards touchpad. :)

NebulaClash
Jun 29, 2011, 01:08 PM
Uh, this makes no sense. Why would Samsung have any interest when they already have Android, you know the OS that its supporters tell us is light years ahead of iOS with a great ecosystem around it? Samsung should just tell HP, "No thanks, we already have a better OS."

But that's not what Samsung is doing. Why?

whooleytoo
Jun 29, 2011, 01:09 PM
I like how much this post shows that Samsung doesn't get it.

By splintering WebOS, they will lose a lot of their advantage since it will lead to app incompatibility and the rest… The same thing happening to Android is why Google pulled back.

It seems weird that Samsung are interested. They're making great devices, but splitting their product line between two OSs just doesn't make much sense to me. It sounds like they're taking a leaf out of Nokia's book in chopping and changing and trying different strategies, and look how their lead in the smartphone market has been whittled away.

Sometimes it's better to make ANY decision, decisively; rather than hedge your bets and see what happens.

Whatever one might say about Apple, you can't deny they have a clear, decisive road-plan for iOS and their devices.

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 01:10 PM
... for iPad world as well,

He who does no license, will enjoy stable market.

- Confucius

Apple's market is secure for the next decade, since Apple has no real competitor that uses a vertical business model. No one is as differentiated as Apple. HP has the opportunity, but they're about to blow it.

Michael Scrip
Jun 29, 2011, 01:11 PM
The what?

You know... the Palm Pixi.

So... HP/Palm has quite a few phones now:

Pre, Pre Plus, Pre 2 and Pre 3
Pixi, Pixi Plus
Veer

It's actually a pretty good looking lineup. Are they all still US only?

http://www.hpwebos.com/us/assets/images/products/phones/index/device-palm-pre-2.png http://www.hpwebos.com/us/assets/images/products/phones/index/device-pre3.png http://www.hpwebos.com/us/assets/images/products/phones/index/device-pixi-plus.png http://www.hpwebos.com/us/assets/images/products/phones/index/device-veer.png

AriX
Jun 29, 2011, 01:11 PM
The original Palm OS was successfully licensed to a variety of manufacturers with limited fragmentation, and I wouldn't be surprised if they could pull it off again.

WebOS is a great operating system, and having more competitors in this market who are actually innovating is good news for everyone.

dagamer34
Jun 29, 2011, 01:15 PM
OMG. Samsung Galaxy S II hardware + HP webOS software = GODLIKE.

0815
Jun 29, 2011, 01:17 PM
It seems weird that Samsung are interested. They're making great devices, but splitting their product line between two OSs just doesn't make much sense to me. It sounds like they're taking a leaf out of Nokia's book in chopping and changing and trying different strategies, and look how their lead in the smartphone market has been whittled away.

Sometimes it's better to make ANY decision, decisively; rather than hedge your bets and see what happens.

Whatever one might say about Apple, you can't deny they have a clear, decisive road-plan for iOS and their devices.

Thats unfortunately typical for many companies these day ... they are not spending the time and money to research the market and do user studies to see what is the 'best' fit - seems to be cheaper to throw a big variety of devices on the market and wait which one survives - customers do the testing for them

wordoflife
Jun 29, 2011, 01:18 PM
Uh, this makes no sense. Why would Samsung have any interest when they already have Android, you know the OS that its supporters tell us is light years ahead of iOS with a great ecosystem around it? Samsung should just tell HP, "No thanks, we already have a better OS."

But that's not what Samsung is doing. Why?

That's like saying that it doesn't make sense to have more than one web browser installed on your computer.

They'll make more money, reach out to more people, etc.

gumblecosby
Jun 29, 2011, 01:22 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/9A5248d Safari/6533.18.5)

Uh, this makes no sense. Why would Samsung have any interest when they already have Android, you know the OS that its supporters tell us is light years ahead of iOS with a great ecosystem around it? Samsung should just tell HP, "No thanks, we already have a better OS."

But that's not what Samsung is doing. Why?

Hmm. Subtle.

Seriously though, I think Samsung reckon the android tablet market is going to turn into a bloody indistinguishable mess when competitors release honeycomb tablets.
I don't see it as a knock on Honeycomb technically that they are looking elsewhere

Cynicalone
Jun 29, 2011, 01:28 PM
The TouchPad is a pretty good iPad 1 clone. I spent some time with it yesterday at Best Buy. Seems very responsive and it may have the hardware that can finally run WebOS well.

But will they every have the apps? I don't know.

I wish HP would lift the embargo so we could see some reviews of the TouchPad. I know Topolsky and others probably have the units.

CFreymarc
Jun 29, 2011, 01:45 PM
They might as well. Was told Palm was purchased mostly to get out of a royalty replacing ThreadX with webOS in their printers and scanners. The Palm tablet came out mostly it was so far along already and the production margins were satisfactory. There is not much of a future for HP in the smartphone business.

The Palm webOS could be a nice alternative to Andriod for those that are sick of the fragmentation of that market. They do this right, webOS could be that "wacky number three" up there with Wendy's, Chrysler, Dr. Pepper and Indian Motorcycles.

yg17
Jun 29, 2011, 01:50 PM
Uh, this makes no sense. Why would Samsung have any interest when they already have Android, you know the OS that its supporters tell us is light years ahead of iOS with a great ecosystem around it? Samsung should just tell HP, "No thanks, we already have a better OS."

But that's not what Samsung is doing. Why?

Samsung already makes WP7 phones. They're not exclusive to Android.

I welcome this. webOS looks like a great OS and the limited chances I've had to play with a Pre, I liked it, but the Pre hardware is kinda, meh. If HP licenses it out, and you can get webOS on Galaxy II hardware, it would be a huge win IMO.

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 01:58 PM
That's like saying that it doesn't make sense to have more than one web browser installed on your computer.

For the average user this is exactly true. It doesn't make sense unless you're a developer or a particular bank website requires a different browser.

Don't use yourself as representative of the majority market.

Cynicalone
Jun 29, 2011, 01:58 PM
If HP licenses it out, and you can get webOS on Galaxy II hardware, it would be a huge win IMO.

WebOS 3.0 on the Galaxy Tab 10.1 would be very, very nice.

mazz0
Jun 29, 2011, 01:59 PM
A partnership with HP would allow Samsung, which uses Android for its Galaxy Tab tablet computers, to customize devices amid speculation that Google may restrict modifications for phones that use Android, said one of the people, who declined to be named because the talks are private.

I suspect if Google do impose restrictions it's probably going to be for good reasons, such as fragmentation and to stop handset makers messing things up. I suppose it's understandable that handset makers who want to mess thigns up won't like that.

NebulaClash
Jun 29, 2011, 02:02 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/9A5248d Safari/6533.18.5)



Hmm. Subtle.

Seriously though, I think Samsung reckon the android tablet market is going to turn into a bloody indistinguishable mess when competitors release honeycomb tablets.
I don't see it as a knock on Honeycomb technically that they are looking elsewhere

That's how I see it too. Samsung sees that the Android market is turning into a me-too market with not much to make one vendor stand out. Plus the patent mess that causes some vendors already to pay for every Android phone they sell, and fears that it will soon get worse. So Samsung hedges its bets.

Frankly for a company like Samsung, that is the smart thing to do. Be OS agnostic. Sell whatever sells. Of course for Android supporters, they have to realize that Samsung is not on your side. They just sell 'em, they don't believe in 'em.

KnightWRX
Jun 29, 2011, 02:04 PM
Uh, this makes no sense. Why would Samsung have any interest when they already have Android, you know the OS that its supporters tell us is light years ahead of iOS with a great ecosystem around it? Samsung should just tell HP, "No thanks, we already have a better OS."

But that's not what Samsung is doing. Why?

Samsung is also producing WP7 phones and also have their own "feature" phone OS for which they produce handsets. It seems Samsung is interested in diversity to sell more handsets. And it's working for them. Overall, all models it sells outsell even Apple in terms of handsets. They are second only to Nokia right now in the cellphone market for handsets moved worldwide.

That is Samsung's plan : "Yes please, we have great OSes already, one more means more handset sales!". Not everyone is a one trick pony like Apple.

wordoflife
Jun 29, 2011, 02:05 PM
For the average user this is exactly true. It doesn't make sense unless you're a developer or a particular bank website requires a different browser.

Whops, I need to rephrase that. That didn't come out right.

Don't use yourself as representative of the majority market.
I didn't.

ivladster
Jun 29, 2011, 02:09 PM
Anything from having Android majority. A healthy market is when all competitors have good market share. 25% Droid 25% iPhones 25% Windows Phones and 25% webOS. Sorry Blackberry.

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 02:10 PM
Not everyone is a one trick pony like Apple.

Yes, you can certainly tell. Which is why Apple is achieving what they are, with only ONE phone.

Imagine how HP could have advanced the state of the art if they didn't license and rolled their own. Of course, to succeed in that area requires a completely new way of thinking, a completely different philosophy. Perhaps cooler heads at HP realized they don't have that and weren't willing to develop it. So they opted to play it safe and race to the bottom with the others.

Whops, I need to rephrase that. That didn't come out right.


I didn't.

Apologies, then. I get your meaning.

kdarling
Jun 29, 2011, 02:31 PM
Too late. Not good enough. Anyone looking to make it big needs to pull off a June, 2007.

Or a Nov 2007. Over 500,000 (*) Android devices are being activated each day now, and is growing at a rate where it could be a million a day by Christmas.

I agree it's harder to get "big" now, but as Jobs once said, all you need is just a small piece of the pie to be happy.

(*) Actually a lot more, since Google only counts those devices that include Google services like Maps. Many inexpensive tablets aren't part of that number.

By splintering WebOS, they will lose a lot of their advantage since it will lead to app incompatibility and the rest… The same thing happening to Android is why Google pulled back.

1) A license doesn't mean splintering the OS. Look at Windows and Windows Mobile. It simply meant lots of hardware choices.

2) No, it wasn't app compatibility that Google was worried about. Manufacturers have to pass a compatibility test with each version in order to be able to call it by that version name. They were worried about making it more difficult for Google to do global OS updates in the future if someone went far astray without coordinating with Google.

LoganT
Jun 29, 2011, 02:33 PM
As long as HP has strict hardware requirements and doesn't allow Samsung or others to put a theme on it. I can see this being great.

TMay
Jun 29, 2011, 02:35 PM
It seems weird that Samsung are interested. They're making great devices, but splitting their product line between two OSs just doesn't make much sense to me. It sounds like they're taking a leaf out of Nokia's book in chopping and changing and trying different strategies, and look how their lead in the smartphone market has been whittled away.

Sometimes it's better to make ANY decision, decisively; rather than hedge your bets and see what happens.

Whatever one might say about Apple, you can't deny they have a clear, decisive road-plan for iOS and their devices.

That would be THREE operating systems;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada_%28operating_system%29

Seriously Samsung, pick one and stick with it.

rdowns
Jun 29, 2011, 02:38 PM
Samsung is also producing WP7 phones and also have their own "feature" phone OS for which they produce handsets. It seems Samsung is interested in diversity to sell more handsets. And it's working for them. Overall, all models it sells outsell even Apple in terms of handsets. They are second only to Nokia right now in the cellphone market for handsets moved worldwide.

That is Samsung's plan : "Yes please, we have great OSes already, one more means more handset sales!". Not everyone is a one trick pony like Apple.

You are so predictable. You have to bash Apple in a thread focused on Samsung and HP. Might be a 12 step program for that.

NebulaClash
Jun 29, 2011, 02:39 PM
That is Samsung's plan : "Yes please, we have great OSes already, one more means more handset sales!". Not everyone is a one trick pony like Apple.

Yup, which is why Apple became the most successful technology company on the planet. Not everyone has caught on to the 21st-century success model. Hint: Following Microsoft's 1990s model won't be it.

bazaarsoft
Jun 29, 2011, 02:51 PM
The original Palm OS was successfully licensed to a variety of manufacturers with limited fragmentation, and I wouldn't be surprised if they could pull it off again.

WebOS is a great operating system, and having more competitors in this market who are actually innovating is good news for everyone.

I think you need to define "successfully licensed". As you recall, Palm split into a software company and a hardware company after they started licensing the OS. This was likely one of the biggest reasons for the eventual Palm failure (even thought they tried to correct that by ceasing software licenses - it was too late). Palm's business was most healthy when the software and hardware were tightly integrated.

So, if Android is becoming too "controlled" for Samsung, and other licensed approaches to mobile computing have had limited success, why would HP do any better?

I agree that WebOS is potentially a great challenger to iOS. But only if HP focuses on creating the complete ecosystem. That means not getting distracted by licensee demands which is exactly what will happen when you license WebOS.

bearbear
Jun 29, 2011, 02:57 PM
If you read the article on This is my next, HP is really only interested in a relationship like that of Nokia/Microsoft and do not want to be an afterthought OS.

dba7dba
Jun 29, 2011, 03:34 PM
That would be THREE operating systems;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada_%28operating_system%29

Seriously Samsung, pick one and stick with it.


No make that 4.
Android
WP7
Bada
WebOS *maybe

And why should samsung pick only one? What you don't like choices?

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 03:36 PM
No make that 4.
Android
WP7
Bada
WebOS *maybe

And why should samsung pick only one? What you don't like choices?

Not when there are so many lousy ones.

What's a Bada? LOL

dba7dba
Jun 29, 2011, 03:53 PM
Not when there are so many lousy ones.

What's a Bada? LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada_(operating_system)


The first Bada-based phone was the Samsung Wave S8500, released on June 1, 2010, which sold one million handsets in its first 4 weeks on the market.

Yup i didn't know much about it.

ADF
Jun 29, 2011, 03:56 PM
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This is a great idea, but not with Samsung... Try HTC. Samsung makes cheap feeling hardware (as far as their products). If Samsung can make a solid piece of hardware then I'd think other wise, but until then, thumbs down.

dolph0291
Jun 29, 2011, 04:44 PM
My guess is, that if this really takes of, it would be more bad news for Android than iOS.

I agree. Google has made a mess of Android in a very short time. It is the next Symbian - cheap software for cheap phones (sorry, no offense to Symbian). That leaves room for Palm if HP has the resolve to do it right. As much as I don't care for HP as a company, Android's market share is ripe for a takeover. The initial puppy love affair is officially over. Most people who own an Android phone don't even know what software is on it, leaving zero brand loyalty and plenty of room for change.

satkin2
Jun 29, 2011, 04:49 PM
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My initial reaction is that this will be bad news for Android. Sanding can only make a donate number of devices, if some of these are going to start using WebOS then it would suggest that the number of their Android devices will fall to make room.

koruki
Jun 29, 2011, 04:50 PM
Oh look now Samsung is saying Apple copied them. Really? lol

http://bloom.bg/ldcvyf

The1nternet
Jun 29, 2011, 05:00 PM
GOOD! More crap products from even more crap companies means more companies that will go bankrupt and get out of the way of Apple's perfection and beauty. This will only be used to further display the glory and majestic splendor of Apple's products by showing how all competitors have no option but utter failure, embarrassment, and bankruptcy.

Not a fanboy.

Glideslope
Jun 29, 2011, 05:17 PM
Hopefully it happens, and Samsung can be the next near bankrupt Palm.

No way. Samsung is to big. Plus, they would offer it as an option.

This will amount to nothing. Win7 Mobile will gain momentum over the next 2 years. It will also be immune when Apple goes after all the copycat Touch Interfaces with licensing fees.

Microsoft saw this coming, and it is precisely why Win7 is so different in design. I'm no Redmond Fan, but Win7 Mobile has quite a bit of potential.

It's going to be iOS/Android/Win7 Mobile going forward. Samsung is simply doing more pissing and moaning. Quite honestly I'd like to see Apple move as much production out of S. Korea as possible.

Let's bring the 38,000 troops home as well. Reunification should keep Samsung busy for a good 20 years. :cool:

*LTD*
Jun 29, 2011, 05:22 PM
GOOD! More crap products from even more crap companies means more companies that will go bankrupt and get out of the way of Apple's perfection and beauty. This will only be used to further display the glory and majestic splendor of Apple's products by showing how all competitors have no option but utter failure, embarrassment, and bankruptcy.

Not a fanboy.

I'll have to disagree.

Google isn't going bankrupt anytime soon. There is a place for volume-based commodity-ware. The market exists. Provided Apple's competitors can serve this end (even if it's just a lot of junk), they'll do fine.

Apple is a special case, because they're doing things no one else is doing. However, this does not mean the competition can't move units. Google has captured the horizontal, volume-based market, and even though an Android device is no iPhone, they'll still move units.

Look at Acer. Junk-peddlers. But peddle enough junk and you'll get by.

bwillwall
Jun 29, 2011, 05:31 PM
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Yes! Take over android!

rp2011
Jun 29, 2011, 06:08 PM
I like web os, I think licensing it is about the only way for it to succeed. I do not see them surviving going at it alone. Competition is good for everyone, especially consumers.

MattInOz
Jun 29, 2011, 06:13 PM
So, both of those things must happen for WebOS to become "legitimate"? A "contender"?

Wrong. The former must happen. The latter seems to be the way that's not working very well and why Samsung is looking for a different OS provider. Why would HP be any more successful than Google or Microsoft? Particularly given that Android licensing is likely to be much more attractive?

I won't say this would be disastrous for HP, but they must somehow keep focused on tight integration between WebOS and their hardware and creating an ecosystem that people find usable. These are the things that have made Apple successful and HP is really the only vendor that can challenge them at the moment (they have more resources than RIM and control both sides unlike everyone else).

Having licensees demanding changes/customization isn't a good way to keep focus. It's one reason Palm failed. It's why Microsoft continues to fail in the mobile market. And this is why Google is moving away from supporting unbridled vendor-specific customizations.

Well I think both must happen...
Why?
HP target business buyers not individual customers. These business buyers are wary of single vendor hardware solutions. So as much as HP can go and say well it's all HTML5 there is very little lock in to the system. They will still meet resistance if they can't buy hardware from two sources.

So they license the OS two a few select and controlled vendors and check and another box in contract negotiations.

Don Kosak
Jun 29, 2011, 06:34 PM
I think its a huge plus for webOS. HP has made a lot of nice improvements with webOS 3.x. The big thing they need to do now is reach critical mass. Even a market share near 10% would be enough.

A second or third company building webOS devices may be enough to reach that level.

I think it will also light a fire under Google to really push harder on Android or risk losing their #2 spot.

I haven't written off Microsoft yet either. They may not be a serious contender yet, but with Nokia, and with a possible "Windows 8 tablet edition" you really can't count them out. Microsoft has a lot of experience with slow starts that eventually build to dominance in a category. (Word, Excel, Windows, XBox)

NebulaClash
Jun 29, 2011, 06:46 PM
"Everyone is figuring out that if you want to survive, you really want to control the experience end to end. The ability to control both the hardware platform and OS is absolutely critical."
-- Phil McKinney, president and CTO of HP's Personal Systems Group, June 27th, 2011 (http://www.fastcompany.com/1762959/hp-touchpad-webos-ipad-ios-android).

So according to the CTO, when the CEO of HP talks about possibly licensing WebOS to other manufacturers, these companies and HP will lose the "absolutely critical" part that will enable them "to survive."

HP will lose the end-to-end control when Samsung (or whoever) changes the stock WebOS software to suit their ends, and Samsung makes the hardware but doesn't make the software, and thus cannot control the experience from end to end.

So either the CTO is right and end-to-end control is absolutely critical to survival (in which case the CEO is wrong), or the CEO is right that it can be successful for all concerned to split the software and the hardware among partners (in which case the CTO is wrong).

KnightWRX
Jun 29, 2011, 06:49 PM
You are so predictable. You have to bash Apple in a thread focused on Samsung and HP. Might be a 12 step program for that.

You are so predictable. Why don't you put me on ignore if you don't like my comments ? I wasn't even bashing Apple at all, but here you are trying to turn a perfectly grey conversation into a polarized black or white mess. Either you're with us or against us uh ? :rolleyes: Sometimes I hate this forum, you can never have objective discussions without the "Apple is the only ones that matter!" crowd getting their panties in a bunch.

Samsung has a different model of doing business, it's working for them. Nebulaclash was out of line in his claim that only Apple's model works, I corrected that and pointed out the holes in his logic. Apple is a one trick pony. iOS only, 1 phone model only, and it's working out fine for them. Samsung has a different take. They sell more handsets, have hands in more areas of business and make tons more revenue and guess what ? It's working out fine for them too.

No one needs to lose here, everyone can be a winner, HP, Samsung, Apple. No need to make this an us vs them affair.

Lennholm
Jun 29, 2011, 06:52 PM
GOOD! More crap products from even more crap companies means more companies that will go bankrupt and get out of the way of Apple's perfection and beauty. This will only be used to further display the glory and majestic splendor of Apple's products by showing how all competitors have no option but utter failure, embarrassment, and bankruptcy.

Not a fanboy.

"Not a fanboy"? That's laughable. You're probably the most severe fanboy I've come across in recent times judging from your post, which also shows a big case of self-deceit, if you yourself actually believe your last sentence.
Fanboy doesn't even need to be a negative word, but you're taking it to new heights.

JPIndustrie
Jun 29, 2011, 06:53 PM
This is a shot directly @ Google's heart.

Nobody can play the game like Apple does. HP is just cutting its losses and moving into a MUCH more profitable paradigm. They realize they can't beat Apple by copying Apple (like Ballmer/M$ thinks they can?) and are completely shifting strategy. And by that I mean copy the biggest player in the market instead.

The ONLY thing going for Android is its extensibility across multiple hardware vendors and income brackets. THAT IS IT.

I'm tired of dumbsumers/analysts/fanbois saying otherwise - there is absolutely nothing redeeming about Android software itself compared to something along the lines of a jailbroken iOS install. It's like saying you bought the Alienware machine just for the included Windows 7 standard software - Really?

HP is being smart. They didn't buy a hardware company when they bought Palm - they bought a fledgling outfit with over 20 yrs mobile software optimization experience run by the disgraced guy behind the iPod Mini.

There are no ways about it - WebOS is spectacular; and HP made the buy of the year. Now all they have to do is copy Google's models of pervasive positioning in ALL income brackets of the market. Coupled with their superior OS (vs Android) they have a shot @ the next multi-vendor supported 'standard' OS. This isn't desktop anymore; POST-PC moves at least 2x as fast.

If anyone's scared right now, it's Apple.

JPIndustrie
Jun 29, 2011, 07:01 PM
-- Phil McKinney, president and CTO of HP's Personal Systems Group, June 27th, 2011 (http://www.fastcompany.com/1762959/hp-touchpad-webos-ipad-ios-android).

So either the CTO is right and end-to-end control is absolutely critical to survival (in which case the CEO is wrong), or the CEO is right that it can be successful for all concerned to split the software and the hardware among partners (in which case the CTO is wrong).

This is yet another example of how the business schools/elite culture consistently underestimates + can not understand technology at all until tech-types show them otherwise. Instead of shooting where the bird is flying to, they shoot directly AT the bird...

End-to-end control is exhausting and needs a specifically designed internal bureaucracy to support it. See Apple and its fans. Licensing WebOS would be the BEST thing for HP. Why would you be stuck building hardware made obsolete in less than a year fighting a losing battle than being a GATEKEEPER like the big G?

KnightWRX
Jun 29, 2011, 07:02 PM
"Not a fanboy"? That's laughable. You're probably the most severe fanboy I've come across in recent times judging from your post, which also shows a big case of self-deceit, if you yourself actually believe your last sentence.
Fanboy doesn't even need to be a negative word, but you're taking it to new heights.

I think his post was dripping with sarcasm. ;)

Mindcrime
Jun 29, 2011, 07:14 PM
I think the one thing that will help HP more than licensing WebOS is putting it on all their notebooks and desktops, which is in the works. They're actively working to create a non-Microsoft ecosystem that can co-exist with MS but which doesn't rely on it. If a user wants a WebOS-only notebook/netbook, they can have it.

QuickWeb and QuickLook on some of their notebook lines was the beginning of this initiative, but with WebOS it becomes much easier.

JPIndustrie
Jun 29, 2011, 07:17 PM
This will amount to nothing. Win7 Mobile will gain momentum over the next 2 years. It will also be immune when Apple goes after all the copycat Touch Interfaces with licensing fees.

I think you're mistaken. What you just said will be the statement that really amounts to nothing. Apple definitely gambled and made too big of a reach in this situation, and the fans/press have definitely made that known.
And C'mon, was anybody really surprised? (http://www.mobiledia.com/news/94518.html)

Microsoft saw this coming, and it is precisely why Win7 is so different in design. I'm no Redmond Fan, but Win7 Mobile has quite a bit of potential...It's going to be iOS/Android/Win7 Mobile going forward.

Woah - it definitely sounds like you are a fan though! Let's take a step back and look at some context. M$ is only now PREVIEWING their next revision of the software w/ multi-tasking. WebOS had a multi-tasking implementation that was critically acclaimed RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. Ballmer yells WAY TOO MUCH to see anything coming let alone the incentives they'll have to place on 2009-class Nokia/Win7 products. Get real; a licensed WebOS model has way more potential than even Android.


Samsung is simply doing more pissing and moaning.

No, they're being pretty smart.

Let's bring the 38,000 troops home as well. Reunification should keep Samsung busy for a good 20 years.

Perhaps you should spend some time on the tech industry a little more before you start tackling geopolitics. ;)

winston1236
Jun 29, 2011, 07:32 PM
haha i remember the last hp product i owned, the thoughts are not of fondness

kiljoy616
Jun 29, 2011, 09:02 PM
The only OS that seems to have some nice features, better than MS or Android for sure, but now let see if HP does anything worth a passing glance with it. :o

MacAddict1978
Jun 29, 2011, 09:24 PM
I like how much this post shows that Samsung doesn't get it.

By splintering WebOS, they will lose a lot of their advantage since it will lead to app incompatibility and the rest… The same thing happening to Android is why Google pulled back.

You assume HP would be as stupid as Google. Licensing is not the same as giving people a free open source OS, which is what Google did inviting people to tinker with it. You don't see your argument being made for Windows Phones.

Android fragmentation occurred in part to too many releases and compatibility issues (as many phones couldn't be updated, or weren't) and tweaks to the OS itself. Google, as always, just released something without really looking forward.

MacAddict1978
Jun 29, 2011, 09:32 PM
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My initial reaction is that this will be bad news for Android. Sanding can only make a donate number of devices, if some of these are going to start using WebOS then it would suggest that the number of their Android devices will fall to make room.

Not likely. Android is a proven platform, Web OS (in sales) is not. Samsung and all the other phone makers are making a variety. Some companies have Windows Phones, Android, and phones running custom software in the market place.

The real issue is these companies try to make each device look unique. They could just slap an OS on a phone and release it with a choice of OS-es, which is not what has been done thus far. It wold be a painless thing to do and reduce the investment a company would need to make. Though, they wouldn't do that.

Samsung, HTC, Sony-Ericson, Moto... they exist to sell devices. They could care less about the OS as long as they are selling devices.

AppleScruff1
Jun 29, 2011, 10:01 PM
I'd love for all 4 OS's to be mainstream players, no matter how unlikely. It would be fun to see each major update and all the hardware try to compete.

Why are you being so so sensible? This is a Mac forum and we all want every company in the world to go out of business except Apple. We dream of the day when the entire world only uses Apple products. We do not want competition. We only want Apple.

Exactly. iOS doesn't have any real legitimate threats-- Apple's got a strong brand and ecosystem. Android... has a lot of fanboys. I don't see a ton of strong loyalty outside of that.

I'm pretty sure Apple has even more fanboys. Have you been reading this thread?

GOOD! More crap products from even more crap companies means more companies that will go bankrupt and get out of the way of Apple's perfection and beauty. This will only be used to further display the glory and majestic splendor of Apple's products by showing how all competitors have no option but utter failure, embarrassment, and bankruptcy.

Not a fanboy.

Finally, someone who really gets it! We want Apple to be the only company in the world. No competition! If Apple doesn't make it, we don't need it. Apple is as close to perfection as humanely possible. And Steve is perfect.

vvswarup
Jun 29, 2011, 10:44 PM
I hope HP realizes that potential WebOS OEMs (e.g. Samsung) make hardware for two different OSs already, WP7 and Android. IMO, from the OEMs' point of view, Android is the best value proposition. First of all, OEMs don't pay for an Android "license" like they do with WP7 and WebOS. Also, by putting their own skins on Android devices, OEMs can make their devices stand out against competitors, something which they cannot do with WP7. Lastly, Android has enjoyed tremendous growth over the past few years while WP7 sales have been very anemic. Unless OEMs see potential for WebOS devices, they're not very likely to back them.

Also, if HP chooses to go the licensing route, it should completely shut down its smartphone business and sell it off to a competitor. Unless HP imposes hardware requirements (like Microsoft) for WebOS devices, licensing out WebOS will squeeze HP's margins. What's to stop a competitor from putting out a substandard device running WebOS just to undercut HP's devices on price? It either has to be HP and no one else making WebOS devices or HP should quit producing phones and concentrate on WebOS itself. It's simple as that. IMO, if HP continues to make WebOS devices and chooses to license it out, that will amount to financial suicide for HP.

With that said, I'm trying to understand why HP wants to do this. I can understand Microsoft or Google doing that. Microsoft doesn't make Windows hardware. The only hardware it makes is related to the Xbox. It used to make related hardware for the Zune. Google doesn't make any hardware and it has never been about hardware. But HP has been making hardware for years. What does HP hope to gain from licensing WebOS?

Westside guy
Jun 30, 2011, 02:33 AM
Bloomberg reports that HP has expressed interest in licensing its webOS mobile operating system to other companies, potentially opening the door for another major competitor in the smartphone and tablet industries.


As others have noted, competition benefits everyone. A third major player would be great news, although this is an awfully premature report. I'm sure lots of companies have made inquiries; but that doesn't mean any significant percentage of those will end up adopting the OS.

Microsoft has of course been pushing its own Windows Phone operating system as yet another competitive platform

Yup, Android, iOS, and maybe WebOS - three major players.

More seriously... I don't care how good some people claim WP7 is, it's probably too late. Microsoft had the chance to own this market long ago, and simply blew it because they were more focused on using phones to drive their Windows brand than in actually understanding mobile devices.

-=XX=-Nephilim
Jun 30, 2011, 02:58 AM
Any tablet OS is better than iOS - so I'll take this as good news since it will give me more options to choose from in few months time :)

Android, WebOS, Blackberry and of course Windows 8

Bring it on!

Winni
Jun 30, 2011, 03:44 AM
It seems weird that Samsung are interested. They're making great devices, but splitting their product line between two OSs just doesn't make much sense to me.

Two OSes? Maybe that's all that you guys are seeing from Samsung over there in the US. Here in Germany, Samsung already supports THREE OSes: Their own Bada, Android AND Windows Phone 7. WebOS would be the fourth platform that they support, and as some Samsung developers posted in their blogs, they are also working on a new own platform.

What Samsung here does is a simple 'survival of the fittest' game: They put all platforms in a race and let the market decide which one will win.

Any tablet OS is better than iOS!

I fully agree. I gave Apple three chances: I had an iPod Touch, an iPad an an iPhone 3G. I returned the iPad to Apple and sold the other two on eBay. While I always liked the hardware a lot, the restricted software platform sucked way too much.

For me, the difference between iOS and Android is that iOS very obviously was designed to limit your possibilities to a point that you feel like you only rented your equipment from Apple. Android, on the other hand, let's you OWN your equipment.

I spent a lot of time comparing current devices before I made my next purchase, and I now use a Samsung Galaxy S2 and think that Apple has to do a LOT of homework when they want their forthcoming iPhone 5 to catch up with the S2. Samsung now designs the reference smartphones, not Apple. And with iCoud and iOS 5, Apple is only bringing features to the iPhone customers that Google offered from the very beginning.

Apple had their brief moment in the smartphone and tablet market and they were able to build a large user base. They did great. But their competitors were not lazy either, and not only has Android caught up with iOS, it is now outperforming it in every aspect. (And just for the record, for a couple of months now, Android devices are also outselling iOS gadgets.)

Lennholm
Jun 30, 2011, 09:31 AM
I think his post was dripping with sarcasm. ;)

Well that's a relief :)

SandynJosh
Jun 30, 2011, 09:49 PM
HP is the closest company to competing with Apple in the tablet market. Their tablet success will led their OS to get into more smart phones as well.

HP isn't really in the table business any more then Microsoft. They INTEND to get into the table business just like a whole raft of manufacturers.

Well there goes WebOS.
The whole point was to *not* license it. To CONTROL the experience. HP had an amazing opportunity here to play Apple's game and perhaps get a taste of what it's like to pursue excellence.
For a moment there I thought "yes, HP gets it."


We have no idea how HP intends to execute their licensing program with WebOS. They can do it perfectly right, or screw it all up. It's too early to see which way they go.

SandynJosh
Jun 30, 2011, 10:21 PM
This (WebOS) will amount to nothing. Win7 Mobile will gain momentum over the next 2 years. It will also be immune when Apple goes after all the copycat Touch Interfaces with licensing fees.

I'm not so sure about WebOS failing to become a strong factor in the smartphone/tablet shake out. I do agree that the market may only be big enough to have three main OS players.

Microsoft saw this coming, and it is precisely why Win7 is so different in design. I'm no Redmond Fan, but Win7 Mobile has quite a bit of potential.

It has potential, but it's being pushed forward by a company not known for agility and quickness... required corporate attributes in the fast evolving smart-phone/tablet markets.

Furthermore, while Microsoft is slow and lacks a good understanding of these new markets, it has a totally different corporate culture from Nokia who is much more familiar with these markets, but is now at Microsoft's mercy when it comes to execution.

It's going to be iOS/Android/Win7 Mobile going forward. Samsung is simply doing more pissing and moaning. Quite honestly I'd like to see Apple move as much production out of S. Korea as possible.

I don't think Samsung is any danger of becoming irrelevant regardless which three OSs dominate the markets. They will simply make phones for whichever ones are popular. They really don't care. However, I really would like to see them sorry they back-stabbed Apple...even though the possibility of that happening is nil.

adztaylor
Jul 1, 2011, 03:10 AM
What I wrote would have made more sense if you didn't cut parts out of it :rolleyes:

WP7 has a unified experience all across the board ... it's far from being fragmented, which was what I was getting on.

WP7 hasn't been around long enough to be fragmented.

On topic Web OS on Samsung hardware will be a very attractive proposition IMO. Always liked Web OS.

fertilized-egg
Jul 1, 2011, 11:43 PM
What Samsung here does is a simple 'survival of the fittest' game: They put all platforms in a race and let the market decide which one will win.


They don't. Their WP7 effort was very half hearted - at best a re-warmed Galaxy S - and their two latest successful flagships were both Android. Compared to the Galaxy Android phones, Bada and WP7 got relatively little publicity overall - especially WP7 - and nothing indicated Samsung put the same amount of backing to them in the "race." Their premium strategy now is Android and that's it. Bada has been promoted mostly as a low cost featurephone-like alternative with iOS-like touch screen.


For me, the difference between iOS and Android is that iOS very obviously was designed to limit your possibilities to a point that you feel like you only rented your equipment from Apple. Android, on the other hand, let's you OWN your equipment.


That's not unique to Android by any means. Windows Mobile and Symbian both allowed practically just as much freedom as Android to the end users, and Maemo, even more so. The main difference about Android is that Google allowed two iOS-like features - usable touch interface and a central app store - to be used by all hardware manufacturers. And strong promotional campaigns by carriers, which is crucial.

At the end, IMHO, contrary to the popular belief Android didn't succeed because it was "open." It succeeded because all the most capable hardware manufacturers brought their phones on the platform since it was the only usable platform with iOS-like features that were available for others. WebOS is an excellent example.

Look at the topic of this thread, WebOS. It was and still remains an extremely capable OS but Palm couldn't match the hardware expertise and sheer amount of phones released by Motorola, HTC, Samsung, etc, so it failed. Plus Sprint wasn't really that ideal choice of a partner compared to what Verizon did for Android phones.


And with iCoud and iOS 5, Apple is only bringing features to the iPhone customers that Google offered from the very beginning.
...
and not only has Android caught up with iOS, it is now outperforming it in every aspect. (And just for the record, for a couple of months now, Android devices are also outselling iOS gadgets.)

"from the very beginning"? My Android phone, a Galaxy S, clearly doesn't do what iCloud says it will do even though it runs the latest Android ROMs. And I don't find it outperform iOS in "every aspect" at all. There are some nice areas I wish iOS does, definitely. But mostly I find Android, even at 2.3, feels a lot like an unpolished beta product in many ways, and would much prefer iOS. Alas, I'm with a non-iPhone carrier and so is my family so can't switch right now.

In any case, it's an interesting thought experiment to imagine what would've happened if Palm actively sold WebOS to licensees much earlier. An HTC EVO-like phone with WebOS would've been a very intriguing proposition back then.

ZipZapRap
Jul 2, 2011, 12:12 AM
Very cool. I've been hanging out for a Windows 8 tablet, but a TouchPad has really piqued my interest in the past week. I've no experience with HP hardware, but would be happy if to maybe trial one out for a year if someone like HTC made one. I have a HTC Mozart running WP7, and it's a very well built phone with a great OS.

kdarling
Jul 2, 2011, 01:49 AM
In any case, it's an interesting thought experiment to imagine what would've happened if Palm actively sold WebOS to licensees much earlier.

An HTC EVO-like phone with WebOS would've been a very intriguing proposition back then.

So true. So many people kept asking for a WebOS phone with a larger screen. It's too bad that Palm didn't listen and/or license it back then.

My oldest daughter still loves her Pixi and its Touchstone charger after well over a year of use. Her husband keeps trying to get her to go Android, but she doesn't see the need except perhaps for screen size.

The HP Pre 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Pre_3) is supposedly finally coming out in July, but once again I think they missed the boat as far as timing and form factor goes. (It's still a little tempting.)