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MacRumors
Jun 30, 2011, 04:16 PM
http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/30/ahead-of-os-x-lion-mac-app-store-sales-numbers-still-small/)


During the keynote address at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference earlier this month, Phil Schiller noted that Apple's Mac App Store, launch in early January, has rapidly risen to become the top selling distribution channel for computer software, beating out Best Buy, Walmart, and Office Depot. According to Schiller:In the last six months, something incredible has happened. In the last six months, the Mac App Store has now become the #1 PC software channel for buying software. That's incredible.But questions have remained about just how successful the Mac App Store has been, given the smaller installed base compared to iOS and long-standing alternative methods for purchasing software.

Developer Martin Schultz has, however, now provided a look (http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/95001-Mac-App-Store-Sales-Results-from-Hard-Rock-Racing) at sales figures for his Hard Rock Racing (http://appshopper.com/mac/games/hard-rock-racing) app, which managed to peak as the #3 paid game and #14 overall paid app in the U.S. earlier this month after being featured by Apple in the "New and Noteworthy" section on the front page of the Mac App Store. According to Schultz, that stellar ranking translated into only 743 sales on the peak day.

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/hard_rock_racing_sales_2.jpg


While that one-day performance resulted in a solid $2,500 payday for Schultz after Apple's 30% cut of revenue, it's clear that Mac App Store sales fall far short of those seen for iOS apps. We spoke with John Casasanta of iOS developer taptaptap (http://taptaptap.com), who shared that his Camera+ (http://appshopper.com/photography/camera%C2%A0%E2%80%A6the-ultimate-photo-app) application typically pulls in 8,000-12,000 downloads per day when it is ranked around #14 in the overall paid apps for the iOS App Store. Of course, 743 sales on peak day may be better than Schultz might have done through traditional channels or direct online sales. The average sales price for iOS apps also appears to be much lower than Mac Apps, which may also contribute to the volume discrepancy.

Apple is of course working hard to drive adoption of the Mac App Store, opting to distribute its forthcoming OS X Lion exclusively through the store. The company has also released its new Final Cut Pro X apps and other titles such as Aperture, iWork, and iLife through the store. With the Mac App Store set to take on an even larger role in OS X Lion with the addition of such features as in-app purchases and push notifications, Apple is clearly pushing forward in its attempts to replicate the success of the iOS App Store on the Mac platform.

Article Link: Ahead of OS X Lion, Mac App Store Sales Numbers Still Small (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/30/ahead-of-os-x-lion-mac-app-store-sales-numbers-still-small/)



soco
Jun 30, 2011, 04:19 PM
I've only bought 1 item off of the Mac App Store. It was Reeder and I only got it to support the developer.

Other than that, I'll get Lion and likely never use it again. I think piracy is still a huge issue.

Truffy
Jun 30, 2011, 04:22 PM
If I'm shelling out a large amount of money, I'd still rather have physical media. I do buy downloads from online publishers (e.g. Panic and Barebones) but, given Apple's track record in the past on changing rules midway, I'm wary of the App Store.

jmann
Jun 30, 2011, 04:23 PM
I've only bought 1 item off of the Mac App Store. It was Reeder and I only got it to support the developer.

Other than that, I'll get Lion and likely never use it again. I think piracy is still a huge issue.

What are your reasons for not using it? Don't purchase/download software on a regular basis?

I am sure it will gain heavy traction after Lion is being used everywhere, and people start buying new Macs w/ Lion preinstalled.

I prefer downloading the MAS version of apps if they exist, much easier for updates/installations. No DMGs to worry about discarding of.

kevinbal
Jun 30, 2011, 04:23 PM
I don't think it has much to do with piracy. Sure, the iOS store has a billion garbage apps but most of the quality apps that people use day to day are internet-based programs. Odds are I'm going to have my browser directed to Google Reader, rather than a separate app. Same for Facebook or whatever else.

The other sizable source of revenue for the iOS store is the games market. I'm not gaming on my Mac Mini when I'm at my desk -- if I'm at home, its either on my windows box or my 360.

There's a false equivalency if you want to compare Mac App Store sales versus iOS App Store sales.

ppc_michael
Jun 30, 2011, 04:23 PM
I launched the App Store once to LOL at all the terrible FCPX reviews, but that's about it. I personally don't like the idea of things being exclusive to the App Store; I miss the little things like Apple stickers and printed manuals!

Obviously I'll use it for 10.7 because I'm forced to, but overall I am going to continue pursuing other methods of purchase.

jeffereyj
Jun 30, 2011, 04:24 PM
i'm still not on Snow Leopard, so i can't access the Mac App Store.

there are millions of Mac users who are in the same boat as me.


and i'm not going to "upgrade" to Snow Leopard just to get Lion. such a ridiculous upgrade path.

L-U-R-C-H
Jun 30, 2011, 04:25 PM
Yeah I just can't see the Mac App Store ever being a huge success... People are just used to the standard way of purchasing software. It's obviously different on iOS devices. Of course it's popular because of how easy it is. If I want to buy some software application for my computer, I'll Google it and purchase it at the developer's website. That's just what I'm used to.

Porco
Jun 30, 2011, 04:25 PM
I'm torn over this - I want Apple to do well with the MAS, but I certainly don't ever want to see the day where Apple decides that the MAS is the only place to buy Mac software. And it scares me that I think they would like to do that one day, not out of necessity but out of greed.

Darkashnet
Jun 30, 2011, 04:26 PM
Mac App Store software prices are quite pricey compared to iOS. Look at "Things" for example.

(With poor sales, they won't have a choice but to keep them high)

rbgaynor
Jun 30, 2011, 04:26 PM
I like having the App Store available and I have used it for a few things (including Aperture), but my buying patterns on the Mac are very different from iOS. On iOS the costs and expectations are different (read lower), spending even $5 for a game is no big deal. On the Mac I expect more out of applications (usually) and am willing to spend more - but only after more carefully looking at the options. There are simply far fewer impulse buys for the Mac.

*LTD*
Jun 30, 2011, 04:26 PM
It's a sign of the times. The focus is on mobile and mobile apps.

Post-PC era, folks.

Most of the development is going into mobile platforms. The Mac, while popular and able to hold its own, isn't one.

It isn' that there's a problem with the Mac App Store paradigm - hell, the App Store model works for mobile. The issue is that there is a shift in focus tailing place industry-wide and market-wide when it comes to consumer-grade products and services.

jmann
Jun 30, 2011, 04:27 PM
People are just used to the standard way of purchasing software.

People are going to get used to search the App store for their programs and then get annoyed if it's not there. Maybe not today, but someday. People always hate change, but it will happen.

soco
Jun 30, 2011, 04:27 PM
What are your reasons for not using it? Don't purchase/download software on a regular basis?

I am sure it will gain heavy traction after Lion is being used everywhere, and people start buying new Macs w/ Lion preinstalled.

I prefer downloading the MAS version of apps if they exist, much easier for updates/installations. No DMGs to worry about discarding of.

Well, I purchase software quite a bit. Just not on the Mac. Hard to explain.

As far as the apps I could get from the MAS (I like that ;)), I've already bought a lot of that stuff on the iPad and can't see buying all over again for a laptop. Everything I used pre-MAS I download the DMG for, having already paid for it.

MrMoore
Jun 30, 2011, 04:27 PM
I think that the numbe of Macs compared to iOS devices really effect those numbers. Also AppStore is, for the most part, the only way of getting apps for iOS. While you can still get Mac Apps through other methods (retail, website and directly from the software maker).

I think, at this time, the Mac App can help promote software that might not have been seen by non-techie people.

t0mat0
Jun 30, 2011, 04:28 PM
Don't forget that some Mac folks won't have updated their Macs at all - and not got the App Store yet.
It'll be there in Lion from the start - i'd reckon on a lot more sales just due to this.

chrismac2
Jun 30, 2011, 04:28 PM
There's a false equivalency if you want to compare Mac App Store sales versus iOS App Store sales.

Completely agree. It's one thing to throw around .99 on apps or even, 1.99 or 2.99 on garbage apps on the iOS app store.

It's something else altogether on your mac desktop/laptop. You don't want all kinds of garbage cheap apps on your computer. And if the apps are more expensive, impulse buying is less of a factor. Most purchases on the Mac App store are going to be deliberate purchases with thought put into them. Unless you have money to burn.

Consultant
Jun 30, 2011, 04:30 PM
Perhaps if they charge $1 for games they can sell more?

L-U-R-C-H
Jun 30, 2011, 04:31 PM
Yeah, this is true. Who knows, it could get big down the road. I mean, look at Steam... I like to think it is pretty successful.

People are going to get used to search the App store for their programs and then get annoyed if it's not there. Maybe not today, but someday. People always hate change, but it will happen.

northernmunky
Jun 30, 2011, 04:35 PM
I hate the idea of the Mac App store, all the programs I buy online I keep the install files organised on a hard drive with the serials in the event I need them and disks on a shelf. I don't want or need to be controlled by Apple.

It's also useless for a work environment when you have computers that can't be allowed to have access to the internet! i.e. our edit suites that we can't put Final Cut X onto because it has to be downloaded using a machine that doesn't have and will never have a Apple email account with credit card details attached to it. They also have to remain on 10.6.4 for compatibility reasons with other systems they are networked to. :mad:

Theres some software I need but can't get because they are on the damn App Store! Even freeware which is worse. :confused:

miazma
Jun 30, 2011, 04:35 PM
I've spent a lot of money on the Mac App Store. Around 200$ so far...
Aperture, Unison, JoyysFastVNC, Pixelmator, PhotoStyler and some other stuff.

What I'm missing is a "Favourite" or "Setup" Section, where I can define which apps I really like and want to have in my default setup. Otherwise I'll just end up with a very very long list of apps I don't remember which was worth installing after some try-and-forget downloads and usage.

Lately I had to reinstall my MacBook from scratch and I was really happy to just click some buttons to install most of the software I needed. But after some time of using the Mac App Store, this wouldnt be possible anymore without any tagging of favourite apps.

G4DP
Jun 30, 2011, 04:37 PM
I've launched it once. To buy Aperture when it first appeared. The only other time I will even think about opening it may be to buy Lion.

nunes013
Jun 30, 2011, 04:43 PM
Perhaps if they charge $1 for games they can sell more?

the difference (for me at least) is the price. there are many games and apps that i would like to download but i cant spend 6 and 7 dollars for an app. if they lowered it to 1 or 2 there would be a lot i would buy. but i have to buy apps for my iphone and ipad and i cant afford apps for all three. the iphone and ipad come first as they are my mobile devices and i use them the most.

davelikesmacs
Jun 30, 2011, 04:47 PM
And yet where does one obtain iTunes or iTunes updates... not in the Mac App Store - weird I reckon. If they want to push the store they should push iTunes in there!

cgbier
Jun 30, 2011, 04:48 PM
Apple also seems to forget that there still folks out there with stone age internet speeds. Took me whole day to get Motion and its extra files. I'm looking forward to the Lion download already. :rolleyes:

Bad idea to make MAS the exclusive distribution channel.

*LTD*
Jun 30, 2011, 04:49 PM
the difference (for me at least) is the price. there are many games and apps that i would like to download but i cant spend 6 and 7 dollars for an app. if they lowered it to 1 or 2 there would be a lot i would buy. but i have to buy apps for my iphone and ipad and i cant afford apps for all three. the iphone and ipad come first as they are my mobile devices and i use them the most.

You've pretty much summed up the reality of all this.

Note that before the AppStore was introduced with low prices for mobile apps, we were paying $20 to $60 for most "computer programs." We seem to be finding it more difficult to justify that now, not simply because we might find expensive (despite prices not changing much), but because our mobile gear is becoming our priority for average, daily use.

srxtr
Jun 30, 2011, 04:49 PM
If Apple releases the new Mac mini next week maybe I can start buying stuff off their Mac App Store.

stadlin
Jun 30, 2011, 04:49 PM
as a student, I'm only interested in productivity apps. and to get them, there are several ways:

1. we get a lot of programs (educational version) for free over the website of our university
2. or through the developer themselves (educational version as well) for free
3. from "unknown" sources

first: why should I spend money, which I don't have, on something that everbody gets for free? and second. I can't find that kind of software at the MAS...

DJJAZZYJET
Jun 30, 2011, 04:51 PM
its a good idea, but there are not enough apps on there and they will not live up to the expectations. You could spend 3.99 on asphalt 6 on your ipad, iphone, ipod etc, but if you buy it on the app store you expect it to do more.

dagamer34
Jun 30, 2011, 04:52 PM
There aren't 160 million Mac App Store-capable Macs out there (as opposed to iOS devices).

Also, Mac developers do not want to have the "race to the bottom" that iOS had. You aren't going to get the same level of scale which charging 99 cents for your app causes an order of magnitude increase in profits. The numbers just aren't there to support that kind of strategy.

henrystar
Jun 30, 2011, 04:52 PM
You do not mean "comparably small." You might mean "comparatively small." But what you really mean is just plain "small."

Torrijos
Jun 30, 2011, 04:54 PM
What I'm missing is a "Favourite" or "Setup" Section

Yep there is still a lot of work needed on the store part (I've seen a few shots of Palm OS app store for tablet and it's prettier), also some soft would need an installer with options (xCode) instead of trying to run everything in one click.

But still the store is great in its ease of use, and in the fact that your soft will always be available through the net (unless Apple get Nuked ^^), and Apple (unlike Steam for example, or other cloud systems) doesn't ask for a constant net connection to use your softwares.

As for poor sales number lets be fair, some devs are going to suffer the iOS syndrome... We've all get used to small prices for small softwares.

In the case of pretty old softs that have appeared on the app store at prices from the day of their first release, they feel like ripoffs...
Mainly games like Bioshock, Borderland, World of Goo.
Once installed in some cases you can even see that the devs directly used Steam ports.

termite
Jun 30, 2011, 04:54 PM
I'm sorry for the developer, but the truth is he is asking $5 for a poorly-reviewed game. Either improve the app so it's a clear value, or charge much less so that it works as a throwaway impulse buy. Just because I bought a Mac doesn't mean I burn money in the fireplace to stay warm in winter.

maclaptop
Jun 30, 2011, 04:55 PM
While the iTunes App Store is an essential part of the iPod, iPad, iPhone experience. That does not apply to the computer side. I see the Mac App Store as just another revenue stream for Apple.

It's not essential, as least not yet. Shortly it will be as Apple force feeds us, like an IV in your arm, to buy Lion via the App Store.

Who knows where the App Store will end up, but it really doesn't matter. Apple is the master of extracting money from us, and the master of convincing most of us we simply cannot do without. With cash reserves as astronomical as Apple has on hand, they can ride it out for as long as they wish.

Cash is king and no one can sell like Steve Jobs.

Gen
Jun 30, 2011, 04:57 PM
In iOS the only way to get apps is through the App Store ... on Macs you can get them from anywhere.

birch25
Jun 30, 2011, 04:57 PM
I think the fact that the average price of an app on the PC is several times higher than that of an iOS app is a major factor. People are willing to try out a bunch of $1-3 apps on their phone/tablet. and if some of them don't work out, oh well. On the Mac side, however, quality apps are going for $10+ then people are more thoughtful in what they buy.

For sake of comparison, the average price of the top 10 paid apps on the Mac App Store (skipping over FCPX since that throws off the average, considerably), iPhone and iPad App Stores give us...

MAS: $14.40 ($43.70 if you count FCPX)
iPhone: $1.10
iPad: $4.10

nunes013
Jun 30, 2011, 04:58 PM
You've pretty much summed up the reality of all this.

Note that before the AppStore was introduced with low prices for mobile apps, we were paying $20 to $60 for most "computer programs." We seem to be finding it more difficult to justify that now, not simply because we might find expensive (despite prices not changing much), but because our mobile gear is becoming our priority for average, daily use.

thats exactly it. i use my computer for school work and internet browsing, video chat. i play all my games on my ipad and phone. if the same game was a dollar for the mac i could justify a few of them. there are a few things that i like in the MAS but they dont have a big selection yet.

what i just thought of is that apple said we are in the post pc era. wouldnt that mean people would rely more on mobile devices. im not bashing apple but they kind of contradicted themselves with the MAS.

ericmooreart
Jun 30, 2011, 04:59 PM
My main problem with the App store is you do not receive a dmg or installer file after you download your purchase that you can archive. At least with FCX. (please correct me if I'm wrong). At least with IOS purchases there is an .ipa file.

Also a problem I had was I wanted to purchase Compressor and Motion for a new Mac I was going to buy in August and make a Snow Leopard build (not going with Lion) with all my new apps. The app store wouldn't let me purchase it because my current machine couldn't run it.

My company gave us a 10 day window to purchase software and be 100% reimbursed. Thanx Apple. Cost Me 100 bucks

NAG
Jun 30, 2011, 04:59 PM
I have bought a few apps from the Mac App Store. There are somethings I won't buy on there though.

First lets just get games out of the way. If they're real PC games and not just iOS ports they're likely to be gotten cheaper elsewhere (Steam is usually cheaper). If I want an iOS game I'll get the iOS game and not a Mac port.

Productivity apps largely don't exist or can be had elsewhere for less due to things like edu discount. I will never buy an Omni Group program from the Mac App Store because they have steep edu discounts from their store. Same would be true for Microsoft Office if they ever released it on the Mac App Store.

Then there is the issue with Mac apps rightfully costing more. This means I'm less likely to go and replace an app I own already with something new. e.g. I like BBEdit so I'm not keen to go buy a new text editor.

So essentially I'm waiting for normal upgrade cycles for apps that don't get edu discounts. Hopefully, now that they're releasing OS upgrades in the Mac App Store they'll realize they need edu and volume discount options in the store.

PCClone
Jun 30, 2011, 05:00 PM
I don't think it has much to do with piracy. Sure, the iOS store has a billion garbage apps but most of the quality apps that people use day to day are internet-based programs. Odds are I'm going to have my browser directed to Google Reader, rather than a separate app. Same for Facebook or whatever else.

The other sizable source of revenue for the iOS store is the games market. I'm not gaming on my Mac Mini when I'm at my desk -- if I'm at home, its either on my windows box or my 360.

There's a false equivalency if you want to compare Mac App Store sales versus iOS App Store sales.

It is also false to say that the apps people use day to day are all Internet based.

Erwin-Br
Jun 30, 2011, 05:02 PM
I don't use MAS because I don't want to open it every time to check for updates. It's much more convenient if the program tells me an update is available instead.

NAG
Jun 30, 2011, 05:03 PM
My main problem with the App store is you do not receive a dmg or installer file after you download your purchase that you can archive. At least with FCX. (please correct me if I'm wrong). At least with IOS purchases there is an .ipa file.

Most apps are pretty self contained and you can just zip the app and save it somewhere if you want a local backup (you can download as many times as you want).

This brings up the issue of upgrades currently having you redownload the entire app (which sucks for big apps). I think they're fixing this or hope they are.

scottgroovez
Jun 30, 2011, 05:04 PM
With iOS the only option for (legitimate) apps is the app store. With OSX, there are multiple distribution channels. That you can't demo apps via the app store is another major deal breaker. I'm not prepared to risk money on untrialled apps. iOS is different as the risk of 59p is something I can swallow.

ivladster
Jun 30, 2011, 05:04 PM
Yeah. Computer applications are totally different field. I think it's good to mention that this is completely new to the user. Just like iPhone App Store was new in 2009.
You can't expect any huge numbers because it's only MAC users. While iPhone has potential to reach any user. I think that's why Apple is not going to brag about the number of apps there are at the Mac App Store, because it doesn't really matter. It's not really a feature.

snowmen
Jun 30, 2011, 05:04 PM
Yes, I used it once for Aperture, and probably Lion when it comes out.

Problem is simple. I want to use Skype, I can't find Skype. I want to use MSN, I can't find Microsoft MSN. I want to use XCode, the XCode on AppStore cost money and I can download for free from my dev account. Firefox is not on the App Store neither. Nor is Adobe stuff. A lot of games are not on the App Store neither, and frankly if I have to buy Civilization 5 from online source I'd rather buy from Steam. I can also play it on gamer-friendlier PC sometimes.

It ends up that I still have to google for all the apps to download or purchase. Now, don't blame those dev like a fanboy. They just simply don't need App Store. Why should Skype give Apple 30% for in-app purchase?

As for games and some heavy weight application like Creative Suite, I'd still prefer physical media just like I don't buy music or movie from iTMS. Purchasing games from Steam or App Store feels a bit... detached.

Sorry, but I just don't need App Store on Mac to survive. It's a good idea though, but it failed in a lot of categories...

AAPLaday
Jun 30, 2011, 05:05 PM
Lack of Delta updates?

realityking
Jun 30, 2011, 05:06 PM
I think right now the only one making real money off the App Store is only Apple (in addition to the 30% cut from every sale)

In the german store the charts look like this right now (I'm assuming these numbers are comparable to other countries):

Most bought:
11 of the top 15 Apps are form Apple - and 9 from the top 10. Only Modern Combat (4th) managed to sneak in.

More interesting when we talk about money, highest grossing:
12 of the 20 from Apple - 9 of the Top 10. Again modern Combat, this time on 9th place, sneaked in. Top app is currently Final Cut Pro.

kiljoy616
Jun 30, 2011, 05:09 PM
Yeah I just can't see the Mac App Store ever being a huge success... People are just used to the standard way of purchasing software. It's obviously different on iOS devices. Of course it's popular because of how easy it is. If I want to buy some software application for my computer, I'll Google it and purchase it at the developer's website. That's just what I'm used to.

The Mac App store is the future, Steam has been doing this for sometime and it has worked fine without much in the way of problems. The real problem is the old one we see in most things. The old generation has to die off for the new generation to come in. I for one like how the Apple App store has made my life easier when someone in my family or extended family how need a program or has some kind of issue they need resolved.

:apple:TV 2 thank you, :apple:Airport all version thank you, iPad 2 for conferencing with the old folks and the grand children thank you. :apple: App store thank you.:D

I also like using AppShopper which I do like because of its features.


What I want to see is all the programs on the Mac App Store since to me it is still limited. The 30% is the only thing that will hinder that. There has to be some kind of incentive to help those whose programs are good but limited because of the kind of people that use them, maybe a sliding scale. Still in a few years people will be able to easily find what they want and in seconds have it in their mac to use.:)

Minimoose 360
Jun 30, 2011, 05:09 PM
The Mac App Store is a joke. Just keep it the traditional way: buying physical products or purchasing it directly from the developer's website.

realityking
Jun 30, 2011, 05:13 PM
This brings up the issue of upgrades currently having you redownload the entire app (which sucks for big apps). I think they're fixing this or hope they are.

An example of failure for upgrades in the App Sore is Xcode. If you buy it it doesn't install like every other App in the Store. No it downloads an installer into the Application folder from which you can install Xcode - great. So now HTF do I update. I still have Xcode 4.0 installed and it's listed a such in the App Store - but the update isn't offered. IMO a complete failure.

GoKyu
Jun 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
If I'm shelling out a large amount of money, I'd still rather have physical media.

I like the idea of the MAS - years ago, things were much different - if you bought online, you usually had the option to buy the physical media TOO (for an extra fee), but also download immediately so you could use it that day.

I love that I can not only NOT have to download a bunch of DMGs to store as "backup", but that if I get a new machine, or have to reformat (thankfully *that's* mostly a thing of the past compared to Windows), I can just re-authorize the computer, enter my Apple ID, and redownload EVERYTHING I've purchased - it's already registered, don't need to worry about keeping up with serial numbers, etc.

This is the way it SHOULD be, and thanks to the MAS, it is. I still have a bunch of programs that are now on the MAS, but I still have licenses for older copies, so once they force me to upgrade, I'll just switch to the MAS version, and it's clear sailing, er, managing.



I prefer downloading the MAS version of apps if they exist, much easier for updates/installations. No DMGs to worry about discarding of.

Exactly!


The Mac App Store is a joke. Just keep it the traditional way: buying physical products or purchasing it directly from the developer's website.

The only good thing about the developers keeping a downloadable version on the website (other than for people who may not use/like the MAS), is that you can try a demo without being forced to pay, and having it as part of your permanent history whether you want it or not.

tinman0
Jun 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
I don't use MAS because I don't want to open it every time to check for updates. It's much more convenient if the program tells me an update is available instead.

?? How so?

I'm a fan of MAS, even going as far as deleting Opera the other day and re-downloading it from MAS to add it to the automatic update list.

To check for updates against the 30-40 apps i've downloaded requires me to open MAS once every couple of weeks, and there are all the updates in one click.

As apposed to opening every downloaded application and seeing if it detects an upgrade?

Ulf1103
Jun 30, 2011, 05:18 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; nl-nl) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'm gonna use it for all THE free-apps :)

blackburn
Jun 30, 2011, 05:22 PM
I don't really care about the App Store. And I like to be able to restore programs from it's dmgs. And with sparkle who needs to worry about updates?

old-wiz
Jun 30, 2011, 05:23 PM
I've only bought 1 item off of the Mac App Store. It was Reeder and I only got it to support the developer.

Other than that, I'll get Lion and likely never use it again. I think piracy is still a huge issue.

I haven't bought anything from the Mac App Store. The only thing I'm likely to buy is the upgrade to Lion.

I still prefer to support developers directly and get physical media if possible.
In iTunes, I've only bought a few albums; virtually all the music on my iPod Touch comes from CDs loaded into iTunes.

guess I'm just an old fashioned old coot.

Also I like to be able to download trial or demo versions. I don't want to shell out $40 for a major app only to find out it's useless or full of bugs or simply doesn't work at all.

AaronEdwards
Jun 30, 2011, 05:25 PM
In iOS the only way to get apps is through the App Store ... on Macs you can get them from anywhere.

I'm certain Apple will fix that hole soon.

Westyfield2
Jun 30, 2011, 05:26 PM
I haven't used the Mac App Store at all.

I do like the whole buy once install on your Macs idea though :). Are Adobe CS5 and Office 2011 available on it?

CommodityFetish
Jun 30, 2011, 05:27 PM
While that one-day performance resulted in a solid $2,500 payday for Schultz after Apple's 30% cut of revenue

So while he made $2,500 that day, apple made $1,071 with their 30% cut. I can't figure out why developers would be willing to hand over that much to apple? :rolleyes:

And don't get me started about anti-competitive nature of such walled gardens...

I prefer to download my apps directly from developers' websites which helps support them. (I'm already supporting apple enough with the high margins on all their hardware, they are already doing just fine.)

afd
Jun 30, 2011, 05:28 PM
When the iOS App store came out it was the only and first place that you could get software (ignoring Jailbroken devices). People had empty phones and iPods that they needed to fill.
I just got a new iMac last week but it is full of software that I have downloaded or installed from disk over the past 12 years when I got a tangerine iMac. So I don't need to buy much software. When I do I will probably buy from the app store, but I pretty much have all that I need so it won't be that often.
I can see new Mac users that are used to the iOS store making good use of the Mac App store but it won't (at the moment) be as successful as the iOS store.

Kaibelf
Jun 30, 2011, 05:28 PM
What a pointless post. The mac store apps are far more expensive, so naturally you don't get the same level of sales as a store with most apps $0-0.99
As for wanting physical media...whatever.

strelok1911
Jun 30, 2011, 05:29 PM
If software wouldn't be so ****, I would use the Mac App store more often.
Where's Transmission? Where's Last.fm?* Where are the great free apps that everybody uses, which can find on the web?

*Some examples of apps that I use

AaronEdwards
Jun 30, 2011, 05:32 PM
If software wouldn't be so ****, I would use the Mac App store more often.
Where's Transmission? Where's Last.fm?* Where are the great free apps that everybody uses, which can find on the web?

*Some examples of apps that I use

30% of 0 is 0.

tmiddleton
Jun 30, 2011, 05:34 PM
i only buy apps if i want updates.

the best app id say that iv paid for would have to be iflicks.

use it on a daily basis. and the developer is amazing, he actually cares about the public.

Yamcha
Jun 30, 2011, 05:41 PM
I haven't bought a single thing from Mac App Store, I have downloaded a some free applications and games though.

As far as games go, honestly you have to admit that the vast majority of the games on the Mac App Store suck, so I'm not surprised if the sales aren't as high as they should be..

Maybe having demo's might help, no one wants to spend money on a game that may look good, but really sucks..

There are those few games that are really great, but mostly its just a bunch of junk :P, at least thats my opinion..

roadbloc
Jun 30, 2011, 05:43 PM
Of course the Mac App Store sale numbers are small in comparison to the iOS App Store's. A lot more people have iOS devices than Macs. Not to mention, the majority of Mac Apps are obtained elsewhere than the MAS, unlike iOS where all Apps are obtained on the store.

In other news, the sun is a star. :rolleyes:

mmcc
Jun 30, 2011, 05:49 PM
Perhaps if they charge $1 for games they can sell more?

No, already tried that. It doesn't matter what price point you choose, the Mac App Store has not and will not generate increased revenue for the majority of developers -- in fact quite the opposite. In return for the Mac App Store and Apple's 30% take, I got fewer buyers at a lower price point along with the customer expectation that software is only worth 99 cents now and forever. Hardly a winning proposition.

NAG
Jun 30, 2011, 05:56 PM
An example of failure for upgrades in the App Sore is Xcode. If you buy it it doesn't install like every other App in the Store. No it downloads an installer into the Application folder from which you can install Xcode - great. So now HTF do I update. I still have Xcode 4.0 installed and it's listed a such in the App Store - but the update isn't offered. IMO a complete failure.

Wow, that is monumentally stupid. Glad I got it from the DevCenter.


If software wouldn't be so ****, I would use the Mac App store more often.
Where's Transmission? Where's Last.fm?* Where are the great free apps that everybody uses, which can find on the web?

*Some examples of apps that I use

Well for one, Transmission is a BitTorrent client which, if the track record from iOS is correct, will not be accepted by Apple.

SgtPepper12
Jun 30, 2011, 06:14 PM
People are just used to the standard way of getting software. Piracy.

MattInOz
Jun 30, 2011, 06:18 PM
I've spent a lot of money on the Mac App Store. Around 200$ so far...
Aperture, Unison, JoyysFastVNC, Pixelmator, PhotoStyler and some other stuff.

What I'm missing is a "Favourite" or "Setup" Section, where I can define which apps I really like and want to have in my default setup. Otherwise I'll just end up with a very very long list of apps I don't remember which was worth installing after some try-and-forget downloads and usage.

Lately I had to reinstall my MacBook from scratch and I was really happy to just click some buttons to install most of the software I needed. But after some time of using the Mac App Store, this wouldnt be possible anymore without any tagging of favourite apps.

I'd like to see the same graph for Pixelmator.
I'm thinking it would tell a very different story about the MAS.

iOS yes lots of device really diverse market games are the common deliminator for the platform so they are going to have the best numbers.

You play games on a Mac there are other/better channels. The common use for a Mac will be productivity apps. It's going to be a cross over app like Pixelmator or Omni groups products that is going to be most telling about the platform.

Wow, that is monumentally stupid. Glad I got it from the DevCenter.


Where you get told there is an update and you still have to go and download then re-install.

Torrijos
Jun 30, 2011, 06:18 PM
Wow, that is monumentally stupid. Glad I got it from the DevCenter.

For xCode updates to download you need to have the installer in the applications folder (stupid waste of space), if you really can't download the latest installer try maybe removing the receipts or even removing xCode.

But let me remind some of you that if you need to update a free version of xCode that you either got from the install DVD or with a free dev account, you ALWAYS had to download the full installer (yep even before the MAS).

Like everybody I really hope that Lion incremental updates are going to work as advertised, and work with xCode.

Then again you can only get xCode 4 through the MAS or if you are a PAYING developer. If you're just interested by xCode 4 (getting closer to developing a real iOS or Mac app) but not ready to pay a license (1-year!) giving you access to the store, getting it through MAS is fine.

dreamora
Jun 30, 2011, 06:24 PM
For me the main thing about MAS that I don't spend that much money there (I bought various things including some not that cheap things like Adobes Sketchbook Pro and Aperture and iWorks'11 once released will end there too) is less the price.

What really and truely pisses me off is that Apple is trying to introduce the same lacking and broken experience from iOS on the desktop.
With that I mean one simple thing which they lack behind the Microsoft Marketplace but which is a major thing to me (and various others going by this thread) and thats that iOS App Store / MAS both remove a concept as old and required as Apple themself and thats trials / shareware / demo.

Out of my view MAS is actively killing them cause many devs on OSX decided to go the MAS only route without even offering trials and most of them don't agree on the value of "Lite" versions since the last ranking system changes (if not already before).

As much as I'm willing to pay $30+ for software, I'm definitely not willing to pay that much and more (Final Cut Pro X anyone? Would love to get it but at $300 there is either a trial or the app can rott in its hole till its old and gray) without software offer me to try before buy.
I wouldn't mind all those devs that try to get away with $30+ for their apps while not offering any trial to out of business within the blink of an eye.

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 30, 2011, 06:26 PM
I think that pushing the 'App Store' idea to the iMac/MacBook market is stretching things too far. I don't think it will fail, but I'll bet the decision to push Lion on the Mac App Store is an attempt to build a following and show the purpose/need.

ChrisA
Jun 30, 2011, 06:27 PM
Many, maybe even most of the IOS apps ar things that really should have been done as a web page. But the authors can't sell web pages. I think it's odd that people will pay for an app but not for the web.

r00fus
Jun 30, 2011, 06:42 PM
Most programs that are really interesting aren't going near the App Store due to the various limitations that Apple has placed on developers.

This is fine, and good for the utilities, games and things that don't fall afoul of the rules, but I really use a lot of either freeware apps like Adium, Skype, Sequel Pro as well as some heavy hitters like Microsoft Office and VMWare Fusion.

When the MAS starts to be more inclusive, I'll be sure to buy all my stuff there.
For now, I just bought a few games and utilities there.

Also, if they would just migrate purchases from outside (a one-time would do nicely) to collect developers, that'd really push adoption of MAS.

phpmaven
Jun 30, 2011, 06:47 PM
I apologize if this has been said already, but, this is a pretty poor example to use as representative of app store sales. It's a poorly rated game and it doesn't look very appealing to me. There are also quite a few highly rated racing games that many would buy instead.

I'de like to see the numbers on a 4-1/2 star plus rated app.

skellener
Jun 30, 2011, 06:49 PM
Still prefer buying directly from the small developer myself. Apple has how many billions (with a b) in the bank? They don't need 30% of my money. Support your developers by buying from their own websites. Give them 100% of your money. :)

Dagless
Jun 30, 2011, 06:56 PM
I used it to download the Twitter OSX app. Didn't like it. MAS seems okay in theory, but it's just not something I want to deal with. When it comes to large apps I prefer them in physical format. When it comes to games I'd rather use Steam because, as a game delivery platform, it's infinitely better (for the unified community features alone).

I'll get Lion on MAS because it's the only way.

Liquorpuki
Jun 30, 2011, 07:06 PM
Get some big name developers in there and maybe sales would go up. Right now it's just the same one man dev teams thinking they can get rich by porting their $0.99 iOS app to Mac and upping the price to $9.99.

I just looked up Hard Rock Racing on youtube. If this is what qualifies as New and Noteworthy, I don't know why my Macbook Pro comes with a GPU.

Justinf79
Jun 30, 2011, 07:07 PM
I used the mac app store to get the Angry Birds games, but that's about it. I might purchase apps that cost only a few bucks from the app store, but with more expensive items I'm just going to buy the physical media instead.

AaronEdwards
Jun 30, 2011, 07:20 PM
People are just used to the standard way of getting software. Piracy.

That must be it. Or perhaps people who like a program and buy it, might prefer to pay the developer all the money instead of just 70%? Maybe they figure the more money the developer get, the better? Apple has already been paid.

Edit: had I seen skellener's excellent comment, I wouldn't have needed to write this :)

prgonosticator
Jun 30, 2011, 07:21 PM
The problem seems to lie in access. How likely are you to buy from the Mac App Store if you're not accustomed to opening it for any other reason? Humans are creatures of habit.

If Apple wants us to purchase from the Mac App Store, they should create a layout that allows us to browse apps available without opening the application.

Let's take the new Dashboard interface for example, I just four finger swipe to the right and it's right there. Makes me much more inclined to use a sticky on my Mac or what have you.

If we could also four finger swipe to the right and witness beautiful GUI with top apps and recommendations, i think people would casually browse more often and probably be more inclined to make a purchase.

What do you guys think?

dru`
Jun 30, 2011, 07:30 PM
To check for updates against the 30-40 apps i've downloaded requires me to open MAS once every couple of weeks, and there are all the updates in one click.

As apposed to opening every downloaded application and seeing if it detects an upgrade?

Right there is the problem. What's more convenient, apps checking when you actually use them or having to remember to run the MAS?

Apps I've gotten from MAS do not check if an update is available so I end up missing updates because the MAS isn't running all the time and it's just not something I think to run regularly just to get updates.

Another issue, buying from the MAS means no trialware and it offers scant data for decision making compared to developer websites.

bijanorama
Jun 30, 2011, 07:37 PM
I can't download Chrome, Firefox, Steam, VLC, Handbrake, Google Earth, Sketchup, or bittorrent.

What's the point of the app store again? A place to buy low quality games?

Frisco
Jun 30, 2011, 07:48 PM
This shows that Apple is out of touch, just like when they removed the disk drives.

It will be a good day when the narcissist Steve Jobs leaves Apple. Maybe not good for their stock short-term, but if they play their cards right then maybe Apple could continue to be a major player in Consumer IT.

They should forget about the Enterprise Market--Jobs killed any chance years ago with his stubborn Ego unwilling to license Mac OS. He was even sent a letter by Bill Gates to license (before Windows), but he ignored it.

http://www.macobserver.com/columns/thisweek/2004/20040630.shtml

biallystock
Jun 30, 2011, 08:08 PM
I've bought 2 non-application DLs from MAS, only because they were a good deal and unavailable elsewhere. I don't find that MAS helps the selection process at all. It offers substantially less information than the publisher's own website and why should I have to negotiate several locations for the one item.

I also detest the lack of demos and the difficulty of backups and software tracking on my end of the deal. MAS is just another dubious "convenience" that many will come to regret when Apple uses it against them.

I have one message to developers who choose MAS for their distribution:

"Think about what has happened to manufacturers who submitted to WalMart".

As for me I absolutely refuse to pay a substantial premium to Apple for DLed software just because I do not live the States. I do all my purchases direct from publishers who do not discriminate.

*LTD*
Jun 30, 2011, 08:10 PM
This shows that Apple is out of touch, just like when they removed the disk drives.

It will be a good day when the narcissist Steve Jobs leaves Apple. Maybe not good for their stock short-term, but if they play their cards right then maybe Apple could continue to be a major player in Consumer IT.

Are you kidding? Apple is the most valuable company in tech today *because* of what they're doing in consumer IT.

Welcome to 2011.

AaronEdwards
Jun 30, 2011, 08:10 PM
I can't download Chrome, Firefox, Steam, VLC, Handbrake, Google Earth, Sketchup, or bittorrent.

What's the point of the app store again? A place to buy low quality games?

Wait for the next update to OS X, Barbary Lion, that will be more iOS than OS X. You will no longer be allowed to install anything other than what you get from the Mac App Store.

benthewraith
Jun 30, 2011, 08:13 PM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/30/ahead-of-os-x-lion-mac-app-store-sales-numbers-still-small/)


During the keynote address at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference earlier this month, Phil Schiller noted that Apple's Mac App Store, launch in early January, has rapidly risen to become the top selling distribution channel for computer software, beating out Best Buy, Walmart, and Office Depot. According to Schiller:But questions have remained about just how successful the Mac App Store has been, given the smaller installed base compared to iOS and long-standing alternative methods for purchasing software.

Developer Martin Schultz has, however, now provided a look (http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/95001-Mac-App-Store-Sales-Results-from-Hard-Rock-Racing) at sales figures for his Hard Rock Racing (http://appshopper.com/mac/games/hard-rock-racing) app, which managed to peak as the #3 paid game and #14 overall paid app in the U.S. earlier this month after being featured by Apple in the "New and Noteworthy" section on the front page of the Mac App Store. According to Schultz, that stellar ranking translated into only 743 sales on the peak day.

Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/hard_rock_racing_sales_2.jpg)


While that one-day performance resulted in a solid $2,500 payday for Schultz after Apple's 30% cut of revenue, it's clear that Mac App Store sales fall far short of those seen for iOS apps. We spoke with John Casasanta of iOS developer taptaptap (http://taptaptap.com), who shared that his Camera+ (http://appshopper.com/photography/camera%C2%A0%E2%80%A6the-ultimate-photo-app) application typically pulls in 8,000-12,000 downloads per day when it is ranked around #14 in the overall paid apps for the iOS App Store. Of course, 743 sales on peak day may be better than Schultz might have done through traditional channels or direct online sales. The average sales price for iOS apps also appears to be much lower than Mac Apps, which may also contribute to the volume discrepancy.

Apple is of course working hard to drive adoption of the Mac App Store, opting to distribute its forthcoming OS X Lion exclusively through the store. The company has also released its new Final Cut Pro X apps and other titles such as Aperture, iWork, and iLife through the store. With the Mac App Store set to take on an even larger role in OS X Lion with the addition of such features as in-app purchases and push notifications, Apple is clearly pushing forward in its attempts to replicate the success of the iOS App Store on the Mac platform.

Article Link: Ahead of OS X Lion, Mac App Store Sales Numbers Still Small (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/30/ahead-of-os-x-lion-mac-app-store-sales-numbers-still-small/)

As is now plainly obvious, all the other current electronic stores selling compiled software that are not called applications because that's OUR word are detracting from Apple's brand name and must be shut down. Consumer confusion and all that.

sashafeaster
Jun 30, 2011, 08:21 PM
I launched the App Store once to LOL at all the terrible FCPX reviews, but that's about it. I personally don't like the idea of things being exclusive to the App Store; I miss the little things like Apple stickers and printed manuals!

Obviously I'll use it for 10.7 because I'm forced to, but overall I am going to continue pursuing other methods of purchase.

its green n thats what we all need to start going better so i like the mac app store n i know it will be better as time go's on i can wait... also i buy my apps iphone mac whatev im not only into free i work so i can buy my **** lol but i do c ur point about alot of bad apps but thats in the dev's hands

andrewsd
Jun 30, 2011, 08:21 PM
So I guess many people don't read the full article or just aren't reLly commenting on how much camera+ is banking for their developer every day.

I know the article is about the Mac app store and not the iOS app store but still what numbers. Plus just give it time the Mac app store will gain ground but just at a lot slower pace. Either way still doubt they would have made as much if their app was distributed in the "traditional" way.

Ted Witcher
Jun 30, 2011, 08:23 PM
Still prefer buying directly from the small developer myself. Apple has how many billions (with a b) in the bank? They don't need 30% of my money. Support your developers by buying from their own websites. Give them 100% of your money. :)

So they can then give the 30% over to somebody else to pay for the bandwidth and credit card processing fees, and how about the marketing? Yeah, great idea.

Look: if it actually did cost them money, there wouldn't be any apps in the damn store, would there? You think devs don't have calculators?

DrNeroCF
Jun 30, 2011, 08:25 PM
This shows that Apple is out of touch, just like when they removed the disk drives.

It will be a good day when the narcissist Steve Jobs leaves Apple. Maybe not good for their stock short-term, but if they play their cards right then maybe Apple could continue to be a major player in Consumer IT.

They should forget about the Enterprise Market--Jobs killed any chance years ago with his stubborn Ego unwilling to license Mac OS. He was even sent a letter by Bill Gates to license (before Windows), but he ignored it.

http://www.macobserver.com/columns/thisweek/2004/20040630.shtml

And we all know what a dire state of emergency Apple is now in because of that :|

Joelb955
Jun 30, 2011, 08:27 PM
I Used to have to pirate my games and apps that i couldn't get in stores, Im not old enough to have a credit card so with the app store i can actually BUY all of my apps! I love this i have purchased over 30 apps already. Like Game maker For mac(My favorite app). This has amazing potential, and i like the idea of buying "Apple Cash"(iTunes Gift Card) then using that for all of my music and apps. Now the way microsoft is going to implement this in windows 8 sounds interesting...

irwcll94
Jun 30, 2011, 08:29 PM
This is misleading... #3 in paid games in the Mac App Store equals about #20 in all apps. While #20 in all apps in the iOS store still generates a ton more revenue, its not as bad as the article makes it seem.

Ted Witcher
Jun 30, 2011, 08:30 PM
Here's a question: I have the latest Pages (iWork '09) on my computer, but it never showed up as installed on the App Store. I stopped following this stuff since the MAS was introduced... did Apple ever resolve these conflicts or indicate a workaround (besides spending $20 anew on something I already own)? Will I never be able to update my Pages again unless I re-buy it from the MAS?

Other than this hiccup, I quite like the store. They do have to figure out the trial version/demo thing, however. That's essential to buying software, and it surprises me that they don't think so. All it would take would be a copy that stops working after a set time period (like we have now), and then you buy another download, the proper download, that installs over top of it. Wouldn't really change the basic functionality of the store.

sashafeaster
Jun 30, 2011, 08:39 PM
Still prefer buying directly from the small developer myself. Apple has how many billions (with a b) in the bank? They don't need 30% of my money. Support your developers by buying from their own websites. Give them 100% of your money. :)

ya 100% on that but only if there green downloads i want nothing to do wit cd dvd so green is for me! so apple get my 30% till that happens

Don Kosak
Jun 30, 2011, 08:42 PM
So they can then give the 30% over to somebody else to pay for the bandwidth and credit card processing fees, and how about the marketing? Yeah, great idea.

Look: if it actually did cost them money, there wouldn't be any apps in the damn store, would there? You think devs don't have calculators?

+1

I run a small (micro? nano?) sized software business and I look at the hosting and credit card processing and CS/Chargeback/CDN trivia you need now days. All of that stuff is maybe 10% of the total.

Then I look at the cost for frankly overpriced and low performing web advertisements to bring people to my website... Every time I run the numbers it comes out at over 30% (best case) and for oversold keywords it's much worse.

For new and "unknown" products without a large brand or word-of-mouth following, the Mac (and iOS) versions of the App Store are a bargain.

firewood
Jun 30, 2011, 08:42 PM
So while he made $2,500 that day, apple made $1,071 with their 30% cut. I can't figure out why developers would be willing to hand over that much to apple?

Simple.

Ask the developer how many copies he would have sold from his own web site that same day if his app wasn't in the App store and compare the two total revenues. That's why he gave Apple $1,071.

Mal
Jun 30, 2011, 08:43 PM
Still prefer buying directly from the small developer myself. Apple has how many billions (with a b) in the bank? They don't need 30% of my money. Support your developers by buying from their own websites. Give them 100% of your money. :)

Do you mail them the cash, a blank disk, and the postage to send it back? If not, they're not getting 100% of your money. If they use any payment processing system combined with hosting and other services, chances are they're already losing more than the 30% that Apple charges. Get off your high horse and realize that this is good for developers.

jW

thejadedmonkey
Jun 30, 2011, 08:49 PM
Do you mail them the cash, a blank disk, and the postage to send it back? If not, they're not getting 100% of your money. If they use any payment processing system combined with hosting and other services, chances are they're already losing more than the 30% that Apple charges. Get off your high horse and realize that this is good for developers.

jW

Not really. Does Apple pay for web hosting for developers? No. So developers would need to maintain a website anyway. And most distribution is digital, with a CD key, so there's very little additional expense, and 30% of the benifit.

adder7712
Jun 30, 2011, 09:04 PM
I'm disappointed with this approach.

I don't have a credit card nor an iTunes account that I frequently use. Heck, most of my software are freeware and rarely use the Mac App Store. I'm just a student and I have enough money to buy Lion, but on a physical copy.

Something's telling me Apple will eventually release a DVD version of Lion. I can't buy an iTunes Store card because the only form of the store official here is the App Store for iOS devices.

So Apple, no DVD, not buying. No, my connection is sufficient (10 mb/s) and I really don't want to ask my Dad to buy it for me via his credit cards, I want to use my own money.

tinman0
Jun 30, 2011, 09:16 PM
Right there is the problem. What's more convenient, apps checking when you actually use them or having to remember to run the MAS?

Apps I've gotten from MAS do not check if an update is available so I end up missing updates because the MAS isn't running all the time and it's just not something I think to run regularly just to get updates.

Another issue, buying from the MAS means no trialware and it offers scant data for decision making compared to developer websites.

Is it really that difficult to press the App Store icon once every few weeks?

Seriously.

KnightWRX
Jun 30, 2011, 09:19 PM
This is why Lion is Mac App Store only. They want to force the MAS into relevance as it is off to a slow start. I for one refuse to use it, preferring Steam for games (the pricing is often better as they have more sales) and open source software for any other packages I use.

Eidorian
Jun 30, 2011, 09:30 PM
I don't use MAS because I don't want to open it every time to check for updates. It's much more convenient if the program tells me an update is available instead.I find this annoying as well. I was hoping it would be built into the regular OS X update. If you are going to force the App Store it should be transparent. I do not want to supply my credentials to update the two free applications that I forget to update since it has to be done via the App Store either. Maybe there is a toggle I am missing but perhaps they want to avoid accidental purchases or updates as well. App Store application updates might break something? What?

It feels hypocritical to love Steam but hate the App Store. Then again Steam is also currently my main IM client, game matchmaking client, and there are always community sales, contests, or events. (Steam Summer Camp is going on right now and there are even event prizes for games you currently own, e.g. DLC, gear.) Updates are relatively transparent under Steam, even in the relative trainwreck of Program Files many users complain over.

Personally, I would rather go directly to the developer for my "real" software. Just point me to a download page and e-mail my serial number. (I still get Profcast e-mails even though I have never used the program. Though I am glad the developer wants me to be appraised of their situation.)

The App Store does not really feel that personal like Steam has. Even if they are just another corporation. Valve knows how to target their audience outside personally. Apple feels like they just want my credit card number and to skim off every transaction in their product incest feedback loop.

gallofilm
Jun 30, 2011, 09:40 PM
my macbook pro is 10.5.8 - that means I can't install the app store. I suppose I can't upgrade to lion then unless I physically install snow leopard first. not that smart in my opinion

toddybody
Jun 30, 2011, 09:45 PM
It's a sign of the times. The focus is on mobile and mobile apps.

Post-PC era, folks.

Most of the development is going into mobile platforms. The Mac, while popular and able to hold its own, isn't one.

It isn' that there's a problem with the Mac App Store paradigm - hell, the App Store model works for mobile. The issue is that there is a shift in focus tailing place industry-wide and market-wide when it comes to consumer-grade products and services.

Your posts disgust me.

derbothaus
Jun 30, 2011, 09:47 PM
I hate the app store and only use it when I can't get an app any other way. Same for the iTunes music store. Hate with a passion. Not convenient in the least for me. macupdate.com is convenient. No stupid tokens no tying to your "appleID".

Digitalclips
Jun 30, 2011, 09:58 PM
I use it now and then but my gripe is that the is no connection between apps bought the old way and the app store where updates are concerned. If you have an app, in my case Transmit, you can't get the upgrade via the app store. Panic Software told me they are unable to fix this and the only way to get an update is direct from them. This seems a silly set up if indeed Apple don't allow an update, after all, all it would take would be to link to Panic in this case to check out serial and user ID. It may not be Apple, I don't know but that was what I was told.

ESPN
Jun 30, 2011, 09:58 PM
Your posts disgust me.

Could not agree more.

catapult
Jun 30, 2011, 10:03 PM
It was interesting to look at the graph that was posted along with this article.

It's important to remember that things aren't always correlated 1 to 1 when it comes to the display of data (Thanks Freakonomics!). For example, my company distributes music into iTunes and our system scans their Top 400 selling charts hourly and we have noticed that (at least for iTunes) they are using a somewhat complex algorithm to determine position placement in their charts.

The algorithm is difficult to decipher (especially considering that they don't divulge this information). And we only know it exists because of the tens of thousands of data points we have been able to establish using our own distribution catalog as a reference. If they are using a similar algorithm regarding the App store, then it would be very difficult to determine the accuracy of the charts (at least as we perceive them).

For example, in the graph for this article, the highest selling day was June 18th, 2011 which shows the developer had sales of 743 units putting it at a position of #3. IF Apple is using the same sort of algorithm that they use for the iTunes music store charts, then its our belief it could be incorrect to assume that there was not another product that sold more than 743 units for that day yet was at a lower chart position. We believe they maybe using other data to determine the chart positions, not just gross sales, as they do for iTunes.

So for iTunes music sales, there appears to some sort of weighting for "acceleration", or in other words, how fast the sales for a product are taking place. There also appears to be a weighting for "stickyness" given to long term total sales for a product (ie: If a product has sold a lot in the past, then it is given more weight in the charts). This "acceleration" and "stickyness" (These are the words we came up with at our company) seem to affect charts positions along with total sales for the day.

Again, I'm not sure if this is what Apple is doing here regarding the App store, but they certainly do it for iTunes. I'm sure there is other data that affects the sales charts...but there is no way to know.

Our 2 cents.

Caleb
Catapult
http://www.catapultdistribution.com

Stella
Jun 30, 2011, 10:04 PM
The race to the bottom for the MacAppStore will be bad. Software is not cheap to develop. The Mac user base is fairly small in comparison to iOS and windows. If developers / companies cannot make money from Mac software they will simply give up.

If you want Mac software you'll have to pay more than iOS. The prices in the iOS App Store are low - users have been spoiled, but unfortunately some expect to pay the same for more feature spec'd Mac software.

Your posts disgust me.

LTD posts are nothing more than attention seeking. In a recent FCPX thread he was posting messages of "where's my retina display iPad".
:rolleyes:

tbrinkma
Jun 30, 2011, 10:09 PM
So while he made $2,500 that day, apple made $1,071 with their 30% cut. I can't figure out why developers would be willing to hand over that much to apple? :rolleyes:

That *much*?! Dude, before the App Store, the typical cut for the developer through online stores was 30% or less. The typical developer's cut for a physical copy bought at retail is closer to 20% (often less).

Yes, developers that sell their own stuff on their own site get a bigger cut than 70%, but they have all of the added expenses of running the site, handling payments, and dealing with the associated security concerns. Having someone else take care of that for you can *easily* be worth 30%.

ericmooreart
Jun 30, 2011, 10:10 PM
Most apps are pretty self contained and you can just zip the app and save it somewhere if you want a local backup (you can download as many times as you want).

Zipping the app wouldn't work because you'd need to find all the files in your home/library and system folders associated with it. And in some cases your invisible /usr/ folder. You would need to re download the app and install

WissMAN
Jun 30, 2011, 10:14 PM
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I've only bought 1 item off of the Mac App Store. It was Reeder and I only got it to support the developer.

Other than that, I'll get Lion and likely never use it again. I think piracy is still a huge issue.

What are your reasons for not using it? Don't purchase/download software on a regular basis?

I am sure it will gain heavy traction after Lion is being used everywhere, and people start buying new Macs w/ Lion preinstalled.

I prefer downloading the MAS version of apps if they exist, much easier for updates/installations. No DMGs to worry about discarding of.

This is the new standard. Hard media is going away; from movies to software. After that, printers will start to drop in sales. Commercial/business will of course be at the tail end of adoption. None the less, it is the new delivery standard. Hard drives, now that wil be around a while. Wait for it, eventually every house will have a 10 TB server and 25/25 Internet.

WissMAN
Jun 30, 2011, 10:14 PM
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I've only bought 1 item off of the Mac App Store. It was Reeder and I only got it to support the developer.

Other than that, I'll get Lion and likely never use it again. I think piracy is still a huge issue.

What are your reasons for not using it? Don't purchase/download software on a regular basis?

I am sure it will gain heavy traction after Lion is being used everywhere, and people start buying new Macs w/ Lion preinstalled.

I prefer downloading the MAS version of apps if they exist, much easier for updates/installations. No DMGs to worry about discarding of.

This is the new standard. Hard media is going away; from movies to software. After that, printers will start to drop in sales. Commercial/business will of course be at the tail end of adoption. None the less, it is the new delivery standard. Hard drives, now that wil be around a while. Wait for it, eventually every house will have a 10 TB server and 25/25 Internet.

tinman0
Jun 30, 2011, 10:44 PM
I know the article is about the Mac app store and not the iOS app store but still what numbers. Plus just give it time the Mac app store will gain ground but just at a lot slower pace. Either way still doubt they would have made as much if their app was distributed in the "traditional" way.

What we don't know, and never will, is how successful MAS is against straight downloads.

I am willing to bet that MAS has been incredibly successful, and the example of the guy who made $2,500 makes the point rather well. He only made the $2.5k because MAS existed and that Apple pickers highlighted his app, so it drew some sales.

If MAS had not have existed, its doubtful whether those sales would ever have been made in the first place.

Now repeat that with all the other applications that Apple have highlighted at MAS and you start to build some fairly significant download numbers. Maybe not iOS download numbers, but certainly numbers that add value to the Macintosh platform.

berniebentablo
Jun 30, 2011, 11:19 PM
I like buying from developer sites but I also like the MAS. Just like with the mobile app store I enjoy perusing through what kind of software is out there that I may not run across elsewhere. And it's a good place to read reviews.

I'm pretty picky about software but I have bought a couple of apps from the MAS. And not ALL of them are expensive. QuickCal is a handy app you can get on the MAS that's just a couple bucks.

And as mentioned before, being able to update all the apps you've bought from the store at once is convenient.

Aduntu
Jun 30, 2011, 11:32 PM
The issue is that there is a shift in focus tailing place industry-wide and market-wide when it comes to consumer-grade products and services.

I love that this sentence means absolutely nothing, but was written with the intention of sounding intelligent and informed.

CyberBob859
Jun 30, 2011, 11:54 PM
When Macbooks and iMacs don't have an optical drive, and no boxed software will be sold in Apple retail stores, then the Mac App Store will make a lot more sense. Because at that time, either the developer will have to setup their own web-based distribution, payment system, and advertisement to promote and sell their stuff, or use Apple's Mac App Store which will be on every Mac and what Apple will heavily promote and use to sell all their software. Especially if easy install and updates, and favorable terms (buy once, use on up to 5 Macs) attract customers.

The bigger software companies (Adobe, Microsoft, etc.) will be able to sell their own stuff outside the App Store, but everybody else will have some or all of their apps in the Mac App Store either as their primary distribution channel, or to get their name out to point customers to their own website for other sales.

Like it or not, this is the future.

MacSlut
Jul 1, 2011, 12:02 AM
I simply don't buy that many Mac applications. MS Office, Adobe Creative Suite, and a handful of others.

However, I'm more inclined to buy from MAS than from some of the alternatives. I had too many bad experiences of apps not registering, serial numbers not working, double charges, spam, etc... I like having one central place to pay and download, plus I prefer the MAS DRM over the weird alternatives everyone else uses.

hotcocoa
Jul 1, 2011, 12:09 AM
Also I like to be able to download trial or demo versions. I don't want to shell out $40 for a major app only to find out it's useless or full of bugs or simply doesn't work at all.

I think this is one of the biggest limiting factor for the MAS. Given the much higher prices typical for MAS titles, trial versions are actually much more important for MAS then they are for the AS. Oddly the AS allows them and the MAS does not.

BillyBobBongo
Jul 1, 2011, 12:09 AM
I just don't like the concept of the Mac App Store. If I wan't a piece of software chances are that I can buy it direct from the company themselves.

One thing that bothers me is upgrades, major upgrades of versions that is. Let's say I've got Transmit 4 and Transmit 5 comes out. Panic offer a chance to upgrade at a lower cost through their site for owners of Transmit 4. In the Mac App Store my suspicion, as I know of no occurrence of this yet, is that this won't be possible.

I'll buy Lion from the store, because I have to, and that's it.

Ted Witcher
Jul 1, 2011, 12:29 AM
You haters need to learn how to think different.

Mr. Luigi
Jul 1, 2011, 12:32 AM
I think there are currently quite a number of reasons why participation in the MAS is less than overwhelming. These have been articulated quite nicely in the posts. Long term, I think the biggest hurtle is going to be cost. For example, I bought the iOS App iAWriter for my iPad. It cost about $5. Pretty expensive for an iOS App. But, it is a well done piece of software design and worth the cost...IMHO. When the MAS came out I was quite interested in getting the MAS version of iAWriter. But it cost a bit under $20 (can't remember the exact price). I just wouldn't pull the buy trigger at that price point. I think market penetration for these Apps at the MAS would improve if:

1. there wasn't such a large discrepancy between the price of these apps at the MAS and the App Store.

2. a discount was earned by customers who bought both platform versions of an App.

iSheep
Jul 1, 2011, 12:36 AM
You haters need to learn how to think different.

I do! Apple tells me this is the greatest and most magical way to get my Apps.

I think different.

Jerome Morrow
Jul 1, 2011, 12:40 AM
Prices indeed are absurd for many items and i can't stand looking at 500 extractors and 5000 video converters.


All crap needs to go from MAS and fast.

LarryC
Jul 1, 2011, 01:05 AM
I am in the situation that some others have mentioned. I am currently using an older PPC machine and my OS is 10.5.8. I am going to be buying a new computer in the next few months, but I strongly dislike being forced to buy all my software from Apple. I want to have a choice and from what I have read it seems like this is nothing more than greed and control. My how things have changed. Apple used to be about freedom and change and now they are acting just like Microsoft and IBM. Maybe even worse. This is (In my opinion) why they are moving more and more towards selling computers without optical drives. My next purchase just might be my last Mac :( unless whoever takes over after Steve Jobs has less desire to control the world. The thing that gets me though is that so many mac users know what he (SJ) is doing, but they have some kind of messianic loyalty and following towards Jobs. Maybe apple really is a cult! I have been told that by a few people and I told them they were crazy, but after reading so many posts on sites such as this one, I am getting to the point that I believe it. Everybody knows that Steve is very sick and might even die, what are those people going to do when that actually happens. Are we gonna start seeing these people report seeing his image one a bagel and calling it a religious experience? Those people need some serious help. And you know who you are.

ikir
Jul 1, 2011, 01:13 AM
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I buy software often on Mac App Store, it is my first source of software now.
I love to have multi licenses.

ikir
Jul 1, 2011, 01:15 AM
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i'm still not on Snow Leopard, so i can't access the Mac App Store.

there are millions of Mac users who are in the same boat as me.


and i'm not going to "upgrade" to Snow Leopard just to get Lion. such a ridiculous upgrade path.

Snow Leopard is awesome, everyone with Leopard should had upgrade if possible. Even if you consider Snow Leopard + Lion, price is very cheap for a fantastic OS like that.

snowmen
Jul 1, 2011, 01:19 AM
So they can then give the 30% over to somebody else to pay for the bandwidth and credit card processing fees, and how about the marketing? Yeah, great idea.

Look: if it actually did cost them money, there wouldn't be any apps in the damn store, would there? You think devs don't have calculators?

-1

1. You still need marketing, even in iOS store. With tons of junk in that pile, if you're not making top 20 app but still a worth-buying app, you'll need your own marketing.

2. Thus, you still need a website to do your marketing.

3. For new programmer... Yeah, the credit card processing fee of 3% and the bandwidth (probably costs about 5~7% of what you charge your program) may still be something (8~10% v.s. 30%) that you MUST consider App Store... HOWEVER, for old programming firm, they already have those system setup.

Why would Adobe abandon it's selling channel and give Apple 30%?
Why would Microsoft abandon it's selling channel and give Apple 30%?
Why would Skype abandon it's 30% sales just so Apple can demonstrate In-App Purchase?

Piggie
Jul 1, 2011, 01:29 AM
Speaking as someone without a desktop Apple device, perhaps someone can answer this one question for me?

As we know, we have been used to buying what WE like and what WE want to run on our computers ever since the 1st home computers were invented.

With the invention of Games consoles and iDevices suddenly the manufacturer of the hardware and not the owner, you and I, or the hardware could decide what's not going to be allowed on the devices.

With this in mind. Do Apple Vet/Limit/Police the Apple Mac Store and won't allow on certain programs?

No one, apart from parents worried about their Children, really wants someone else telling them what they can and cannot do. Especially with something they have bought.

I'm asking as I don't know. Do Apple not allow certain programs on their as they don't agree with them?

If this is the case, it seems a very dangerous thing to do from a customer point of view. If they don't then great. I really don't know.

foiden
Jul 1, 2011, 02:02 AM
You could never really compare mobile platform to computer platform for these things. Cheap prices really are what makes iOS apps sell through the roof. There was a saying, years ago, about what is the easiest way to make a million. If you can sell a decent program for $10, A thousand folks may get it. But if you sell it for $1, a million folks may quickly lap it up.

Of course, this goes without saying that you want to price accordingly to make up for the amount you spent on resources and time to create a product. So yeah, there will be a lot of junk apps. Open market, that's all there is. If you want to compare, just look at the more expensive Shareware market on any major platform including Windows. For bigger prices, you have a metric ton of junk programs, and you basically filter them way out to get at the good ones. If anything, that market easily equals iOS when it comes to ratio of junk apps to great and useful ones. Without having to cite the millions of these programs, I'll just mention ones that come to you via email. Shall I even have to remind you the amount of even Mac applications (not in the App Store), that try to sell you (all for the low price of $29.99-$49.99) these miracle applications that helps you do *new and useful* stuff on the Mac (which just happens to mimic an exact feature already built in the OS). You might already get some emails that try to sell you that. But instead of complaining about junk apps (as people seem to do only for iOS or Android, for some strange reason), you just laugh it off and don't buy it, because you know better. Of course, not everybody does, and they do sell, or they wouldn't continue to make them. Of course, without a central store to track sales numbers, you don't hear about overall sales from most of these companies, nor do they have any obligation to release those numbers.

Back to mobile apps. On the other hand, for low-cost apps, it varies. A lot of applications that don't take a lot of resources, but are quite incredibly useful also fill the iOS app store. Stuff that helps you organize stuff in life, or maybe makes it easier for that night out on the town. Of course, the usefulness of such apps greatly multiplies in usefulness when you can take it with you on a carry-on such as a phone or iPod touch. The more portable, the better. Since these apps are nowhere near as useful and awesome on a computer that you don't lug around in such capacity, people are less to buy those kind of programs. That will be the bigger difference maker. Yes, they are cheap, but super useful in a mobile market.

Heck, even when there was no iOS. No Apple in the mobile market. Not even major penetration of the market by Rim yet, the mobile market was lucrative. You could even compare sales back then, on stuff like Nintendo and Sony portable gaming, and yet the mobile apps (which were a whole lot worse in comparable quality, back then) were still quoting big overall sales numbers. Some companies jumped in to collect on that market, and even those bigger companies were selling games based on their franchises that hardly compare to the mediocre-level indy games on today's iOS. Something remotely good like (pick any Gameloft title) didn't exist. You had major franchise names on stuff that just barely exceed the low-end of quality for iOS apps, and with much worse controls even though they had physical keyboards and directional keys. There's something about the phones which get people buying. The mobile market has always been surprisingly lucrative, Apple was just one company that recognized it and felt it was a smart business move to jump into that market. Can't blame them.

chaosbunny
Jul 1, 2011, 02:16 AM
I haven't used the Mac AppStore yet, and will likely only use it for getting Lion in a couple of months when I have to. I don't use iTunes for getting music either, as I prefer CDs. And for my iPhone I only bought 3 apps plus loading just a couple of free ones. It's a phone, I mainly use it to make calls. My computers get far more use than any iOS device ever would.

As long as the MAS is an option for people who like it it is perfectly fine, I just hope Apple will not make it the only option for getting Mac applications in 10.8 or 10.9, as this would force me to move over to another operating system.

foiden
Jul 1, 2011, 02:31 AM
I'm asking as I don't know. Do Apple not allow certain programs on their as they don't agree with them?

If this is the case, it seems a very dangerous thing to do from a customer point of view. If they don't then great. I really don't know.

I would imagine that they still do. If only because it is a managed store. Even Steam would be the same way, and people view them as pretty open about their sales. Obviously, they wont sell stuff that would be pornographic in nature. Mature-rated games, for instance, would still be fair game with obvious warnings to the content for which they are buying. But this goes without saying. Same thing for Gamestop or Best Buy. (It's the, if a managed store sells certain software, people can sue the managed store, clause)

There's a lot of services that wont or have no need to be on the App store, Steam, or any managed service because the style of market really doesn't need to be there on computers.

It's because people act differently on mobile devices than on computers. On computers, people are programmed to search as the number 1 app that totally controls them is the mighty web browser. They know, right from the get go, you need something? Google it. And the moment they do, they can see and look up whatever utility app they want. If they want an e-reader, they look it up on the internet, click the link, and download the sucker. They don't look for organized stores for that stuff much. On the other hand, they may look for organized places more for games and such as there have been more companies developing (one stop shop) places for them. On mobile devices, users generally don't like to browse the internet for software, they want to click one app and find them all with the quickest possible response speeds. Because the computer method is just more painful to use on phones, and a lot slower.

Still, Apple has a bit of work cut out for them, when it comes to availability and prices for the game sector. Steam is a tough one to beat, and it's everywhere. It's on PC and on Mac, and it's here to stay. Steam plays the pricing war for computers like the App store does for iOS. Loads of temporary sales times for which people lap up the software. (Though quite a few games on App Store are not on Steam. If you want the Mac version of Sid Meier's Pirates, for instance, Steam doesn't provide it) On the other hand, Steam is only games. If the App Store can gain a reputable following for well-priced overall applications (utility, creation, business, etc.) then they will have their niche in a market that is only highly competitive in the gaming sector.

I think, right now, the most enticing feature of the Mac App Store will be features in Lion, when they make organizing Apps as simple and as easy as the iOS platform, and updates as automatic and seamless as Steam. With the added advantage that you don't have to do anything clunky to set up your software to be used offline, like most of the Steam apps do. Having to remember to do that, in Steam, is an inconvenience. Because it's easy to forget, and then you find yourself in a situation where you can't use it and have to wait to get to a connection again. The main thing I see myself using the Mac App store for, will be the cheaper actual Apple software releases. Stuff like the new Aperature, and some things like that. It's nice that they are giving discounts for such software, and I can do with that, to a limit. No way do I see myself doing the same for huge programs like Logic Pro which came on no less than 9 DVDs. Some Mac games, not on Steam, would be 2nd.

Apple wouldn't ever make MAS the only way to purchase software. Even they know that's market suicide on any computer OS. Not while browsers rule the world for content searches. There's no amount of rabid OS fan that would defend that move. They'd jump ship, too. Computers are open market, always will be. MAS simply has to offer service and convenience that beats the possible competition. Tougher to do, but doable if they play their cards right. Fortunately, the competition is very small and unorganized, except for games.

ibosie
Jul 1, 2011, 02:41 AM
MAS is one of my favourite developments in the Mac space. It removes the chore of having to backup my purchases and record the serial number for future use. I now always look to MAS first and I'm disappointed when something is not there. It's a breeze when you need to do a clean install or buy a new Mac and have all your apps quickly installed with no fuss. I love it.

foiden
Jul 1, 2011, 02:49 AM
MAS is one of my favourite developments in the Mac space. It removes the chore of having to backup my purchases and record the serial number for future use. I now always look to MAS first and I'm disappointed when something is not there. It's a breeze when you need to do a clean install or buy a new Mac and have all your apps quickly installed with no fuss. I love it.

Good point. That is a rather undiscussed feature that actually is important. Duly noted.

bushido
Jul 1, 2011, 02:52 AM
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i dont think i even opened the Mac Store on my Lion yet lol last thing i need is apple telling me what i can and cant install on a future OS

appleisler
Jul 1, 2011, 02:58 AM
I haven't used the Mac App store because its way too expensive. I recently went to purchase Omnifocus - its US$79.95 direct from Omnigroup and you get a 14 day free trial. But on the Australian mac app store, it is Au$99.99! Given that the aussie dollar is slightly above parity, that's put me right off:mad:

Similarly I bought DevonThink Pro Office - when I checked the mac app store only had the basic personal edition. And for that they wanted AU$59.99 when its only $US49.95 from the developer.

So both my recent software purchases have been direct from the developer, with a free trial and have saved me a considerable amount when compared to the app store price. The take home lesson for me is that the app store is likely to be a rip off and that I need to price check elsewhere before I use it - not a great way to entice people into a new system....

Ted Witcher
Jul 1, 2011, 03:06 AM
The MAS will be fine if they can get that demo/trial thing happening. I download all my software anyway, I don't see the problem.

tlinford
Jul 1, 2011, 03:39 AM
How many of us have bought a game for our iPhone or iPad, only to wish quite quickly that we hadn't! having only spent a small about, it doesn't really matter.

I also have about 3 paid PDF apps on my iPad, none of which really do what I wanted, which was to pull PDF's on a university website; which I can only do on my Mac in seems. Having spent less than $10 on all 3, I am not upset (maybe I should be?).

If I had paid $50 or more on a piece of software from the Mac App Store, I would have been furious if it didn't do what I wanted.

Most decent software houses, offer trial period on full software. Even Apple did until the App Store. I had a trial of Mobile Me which I extended about a year ago and I love it..... just as Apple announce it is going away!

Most decent software houses (circus ponies, Nuance, Microsoft etc) offer on line, live updates. Occasionally I open Circus Ponies Notebook, or Nuance MacSpeech Dictate, and it says "there is a new version of this software .... do you want it?".

These software houses have yet to move over to Mac App store. I suppose having invested in servers of their own, they would be hard pressed to move... Also once they move to Mac App Store, they loose control. Apple have kept a tight reign on iOS apps. This platform in immature and to keep control of quality, Apple have had a high centralised standard. This is applaudable and goes someway to stop fragmentation, however, as my 3 PDF apps show it doesn't stop functional fragmentation completely. Independent quality control for Mac Apps is fine as it is. Most applications are mature, and have survived the scrutiny of demanding customers (that's why they're still there). There is not the same need for a centralised quality controlled Mac App Store.

But even if you could get big-guns to move to the Mac App Store; where is the trial period software gone? Trial software is a business model that works;people who would otherwise procrastinate whether to spend $100; try for free, like what they see and buy. I think if Apple deliver heavyweight software that people hate (such as the recent delivery of Final Cut X), then this is a business model for failure.

Come on Apple; please think things through before pushing everyone do make radical and imperfectly formed delivery solutions.

satkin2
Jul 1, 2011, 03:55 AM
This article looks to be trying to be negative on the MAS by comparing it to the iOS App Store. You can't compare the iOS store with the MAS store, they're totally different environments.

What should be compared is the number of downloads the developers usually get and what they're getting now the MAS is open.

If the developer is consistently selling more because of the stores presence then it is working, if its made little to no difference then it probably isn't.

Nightarchaon
Jul 1, 2011, 04:04 AM
problem is :

Mac Appstore , Pros

Convinient, simple quick access to software, easy to redownload/reinstall

Mac Appstore , Cons :

Limited to a single account (cant install easily on family Macs used by different main users using different itunes logons)

EXPENSIVE !!! (appstore apps are usually MUCH more expensive than can be found elsewhere, like the developers own website, or other online retailers like Direct 2 drive or steam, strangly enough, usually around %30 more expensive)


The App store, when its on a mac, and not an iOS device, cannot work in the same way as it has to COMPETE with other methods of obtaining the software, something apple has no clue about, i expect that lions replacment OS will be much more like iOS and prevent users from installing software anyway other than via apples own app store.

Apple should really be giving its hardware away for almost cost now the amount of revenue they make on the hardware is less than 1% the revenue they make on iTunes/iOS appstore annually now. More units in more hands = more revenue surely !!!

haravikk
Jul 1, 2011, 04:28 AM
I'll probably use it in future to upgrade apps that I downloaded to begin with, but since all my current apps work fine I haven't had a huge call to use the Mac App Store, and there is nothing that I particularly need, and I'm not a huge Mac gamer as I prefer consoles for the compatibility.

Also, when it comes to gaming I'm more inclined to use Steam due to their multi-platform deals whereby I can by the Mac and PC version of a game simultaneous, and am currently hoping that this will extend to consoles (I believe it already partly exists for the PS3?).

So ehm… I'm not too big on the Mac App Store; if I finish the game I've been working on then I may very well add it there.


I've bought XCode from there though, and will get Lion once it's out.

Winni
Jul 1, 2011, 05:12 AM
My how things have changed. Apple used to be about freedom and change and now they are acting just like Microsoft and IBM. Maybe even worse. This is (In my opinion) why they are moving more and more towards selling computers without optical drives..


Apple has NEVER been about 'Freedom and change' - their pirate image has always only been great marketing, nothing else. When Apple introduced the Mac back in 1984, they actually introduced the most proprietary computing platform on the market at that time. Steve Jobs did not even want the customers to be able to upgrade the RAM in the first Mac or allow them to attach any non-Apple-approved peripherals to it.

This proprietary business model almost killed the company in the 1990s.

Anyway. I also believe that future Macs won't even have optical disks anymore. Apple will do anything to push people into using their iCloud and its pay-for-parts (iTunes, AppStore).

The business idea is simple: Apple wants a tax on ANYTHING that is being used on or sold for their gadgets/computers.

realmike15
Jul 1, 2011, 05:34 AM
As long as Apple remains a company that allows installation of software outside the App Store on OS X, I'll continue to be a customer. But the minute they move software to App Store Purchases only, I won't hesitate to drop them in a heart beat... and I know a lot of other people feel the same way. If they want their software to be exclusive to the App Store, that's their right... but forcing all their customers and developers to sell exclusively through the App Store is something a lot of people aren't going to tolerate.

Luckily for us, while Apple might appear likely to adopt something like this in the future... companies like Linux and Google would be less likely to force the software market into a corner. I have no problem dropping Apple and Microsoft for a company like Linux who would almost certainly never implement something like this. I already have a Windows/Linux machine going, give me the word and I'll make the switch without hesitation.

tlinford
Jul 1, 2011, 05:58 AM
This article looks to be trying to be negative on the MAS by comparing it to the iOS App Store. You can't compare the iOS store with the MAS store, they're totally different environments.

What should be compared is the number of downloads the developers usually get and what they're getting now the MAS is open.

If the developer is consistently selling more because of the stores presence then it is working, if its made little to no difference then it probably isn't.

They seem like the same environment to me. Mac App store isn't in iTunes, seems to be the only real difference and this is as different as makes no difference.

The browsing experience is the same (which is good).
It holds your Apple ID account details in the same way (excellent).
One click purchases are also identical (nice Apple).
No trials is the same (bad Apple).
Difficulty getting refunds is the same (really bad Apple).

There is different cutlery for eating food out there; exclusive and pile it high ****.

There are the places where you can eat with silver service; which is nice, exclusive and provides an experience par excellence.

There are other places where you can eat with plastic cutlery; fast food, deposable crap..... fit for purpose on the road eats......

ok,

but do we want software on our Mac's which is silver service, or mass plastic?

I know which I would prefer.....

Rafterman
Jul 1, 2011, 06:49 AM
Part of the problem is, while Apple realized that this type of distribution allows for lower prices (software like Aperture and Apple Remote are steals), other vendors have not. Most still charge the same normal prices that you could get elsewhere. And desktop software is just plain expensive, compared to iPhone and iPad apps.

Photics
Jul 1, 2011, 07:02 AM
Perhaps if they charge $1 for games they can sell more?

That didn't seem to work for me. :D

BOT is 99˘ (USA) in the App Store.
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=445430105

The iOS version (http://photics.com/buy-bot) sold far more copies.

the8thark
Jul 1, 2011, 07:03 AM
This is why Lion is Mac App Store only. They want to force the MAS into relevance as it is off to a slow start. I for one refuse to use it, preferring Steam for games (the pricing is often better as they have more sales) and open source software for any other packages I use.
Your posts disgust me.

*LTD*'s posts on the other hand I really like. Well thought out. Unlike some of the other nonsense written on these forums.

KALLT
Jul 1, 2011, 07:12 AM
For me, it is simple. I generally do not like spending much money on apps, written by unknown developers with mixed reviews, without having the chance to try the app first. My experiences with the iOS App Store are most of the time not that great, there is a lot of junk out there. This also applies of course to the Mac App Store. The notable difference is that apps on the iOS App Store are generally lower priced than on the Mac App Store. I don't mind spending €0,79 or a bit more for apps I can dispose of easily.

If I get the opportunity to see whether an app is worth its price, I will be much more inclined to buy it. Luckily, some developers offer trial versions on their websites, but not all. I think the Mac App Store lacks a good returns and refunds policy or a trial function.

Jett0516
Jul 1, 2011, 07:14 AM
not everyone who owns a mac has internet at home to shop the store.

dr Dunkel
Jul 1, 2011, 07:51 AM
People have to use the App Store but not the Mac App Store, yet, so they don't. Any other reasons that spring to mind?

CyberBob859
Jul 1, 2011, 07:51 AM
When I went to my iMac this morning, I noticed that the Mac App Store showed I had an update. The interesting thing was that the App Store wasn't running or active (no blue dot below it on the dock.)

When I opened it, an update to Alfred was listed. Alfred was running on my computer. So, either a program that is running can inform the Mac App Store that an update is available, or the App Store can go out in the background and determine which updates are ready.

I just thought that was pretty cool.

KnightWRX
Jul 1, 2011, 07:52 AM
*LTD*'s posts on the other hand I really like. Well thought out.

Being new here, I know you can't know this, but *LTD* is a caricature poster. The guy just likes to have fun and posts marketing drivel to make it seem Apple is always right, no matter what the story or spin he has to put on it. The guy is not here to actually post what he thinks is true.

Unlike some of the other nonsense written on these forums.

What was non-sensical about my post ? We have 2 facts here :

- MAS isn't doing as good as Apple had hoped.
- Lion will be distributed exclusively through the Mac App Store.

This leads me to believe that the 2nd fact is related to the first. Apple decided that by forcing a big number of Mac users to sign in to the MAS for Lion will increase its visibility and relevance. While you're in there getting Lion, you might see something else you want and get it. By doing that, you're "discovering" the MAS.

Loss leaders, grocery stores do it all the time. What's so non-sensical about that ? Instead of just insulting other member's posts, why don't you provide insight about why you think they are non-sensical ?

The Phazer
Jul 1, 2011, 08:31 AM
The App Store would be a failure on iOS too if Apple didn't make sure that it was the only way to buy software on the device rather than just making it better than it's competitors.

I haven't, and won't ever, buy anything from the Mac App Store. I couldn't counternance encouraging Apple to bring the anti-customer attitude they've used the iOS store to proper computing platforms.

Phazer

Nebulance
Jul 1, 2011, 08:36 AM
It's a sign of the times. The focus is on mobile and mobile apps.

Post-PC era, folks.



I don't necessarily agree with 'post-PC era' in this case. We're still using computers here.

It's true on the level of mobile phones, but not true for the laptop or desktop -- it's still a computer, which is all a 'PC' is.

If we all stopped using desktops and laptops in favor of iPads and iPhones, etc., then yes, it's a post-PC era... but until that happens (which I highly doubt), then I don't know if that's true.

Concerning someone's comment about not upgrading to Snow Leopard -- the performance boost is noticeable! I finally upgraded about a week ago... plus, you get back 7+ GB of hard drive space -- so even if you don't get Lion, Snow Leopard is worth the $30. And if you do want to upgrade to Lion at some point, you do have the option to. But I do agree that <needing> to upgrade to Snow Leopard first is retarded.

Maybe I'm not one to talk, because I just upgraded to Snow Leopard. But oh well, I like it.

On the flip side for the developers out there -- snow leopard has seemingly removed the issue Leopard had with continually deleting the X11 windowing software that you need when working through the terminal over ssh when updating your software. That was really really annoying.

AppleFan1984
Jul 1, 2011, 09:01 AM
It's a sign of the times. The focus is on mobile and mobile apps.

Post-PC era, folks.
Did you type that on your iPad?

eah2119
Jul 1, 2011, 09:09 AM
I've always noticed the mac app store to "lag" behind a little bit. I'm not referring to lag over the internet. I'm talking about app store lag.

All the apps do seem to be a bit pricey. Surely, there are major differences between prices of mac apps and iOS apps. And I can see the reason. A computer, overall, has more tools, more processing power, a larger screen, a keyboard to fit your hands. An iPhone or iPod Touch is smaller with less HD space, a smaller screen, and less processing power. You are going to be able to do less with an iOS device than with a Mac, thus they are priced lower for that reason.

I think it may also be that the "richer" people will own a Mac than a Windows PC because Macs are usually more expensive. But a greater number of people (regardless of financial characteristics) purchase an iOS device. Thus, the price of a Mac App will be significantly higher to keep up with the assumption that people who own a Mac are willing to purchase a more expensive app.

Although, there are people like me who can't afford to make such expensive purchases. While I would love to have that game or app, I simply don't see a great enough need to have it for such a high price. Out of purchasing 13 apps thus far, Lion will probably be my most expensive purchase on the Mac App Store. I mean, I've seen apps that are $50. I would buy a PS3 game for $50, but never would I buy an app for my Mac at that price. For one, I can't be sure my purchase will not be a total rip-off like I can for a PS3 game.

I realize that it's all supply and demand. The price for an app is the price where the supplier is making the most profit. The only way to lower the price is to demand more of it or for Apple to eliminate (or at lest reduce) their 30% cut. Demand will go up if more popular apps are available. If the Mac App Store is to become the central hub for buying apps for your Mac, ALL apps need to be purchased and downloaded from the Mac App Store. However, this requires participation from many companies that won't allow this, such as Microsoft Office. The problem is that 30% CUT!!!

oheckyeah
Jul 1, 2011, 09:12 AM
Apple also seems to forget that there still folks out there with stone age internet speeds. Took me whole day to get Motion and its extra files. I'm looking forward to the Lion download already. :rolleyes:

Bad idea to make MAS the exclusive distribution channel.

Exclusivity is how apple pushes its market.

shervieux
Jul 1, 2011, 09:22 AM
1. A lot of the apps in the beginning were ports from their iOS (iphone, iPad) application. So if you had it on an iDevice, then why would I want a duplicate on my mac if it did not offer better features.

2. No physical media backups or a way to back it up. So if I am paying >$10 I worry if my computer were to crash. Install would be costly in both time to re-download and cost to those who have bandwith caps..

3. Caps on bandwith from ISP's.

4. The app store came out in the middle or late in an OS cycle, so everyone already had their apps from Leopard and upgraded for Snow Leopard by the time the App store came out.

5. Does not support below Snow Leopard, so those running older machines or OS are left in the cold. Even some Windows Products will still run on XP SP 3.

6. The better, full featured apps like Adobe, Microsoft, and a few others are not allowed in the App store. So you have two problems. 1 - third party who offer downloads from their website with an option to back up or physical media sales still resulted in better software and purchase options. 2 - It is taking time for all the software developers to re-write their apps to meet the App store guidelines and rules. And then they risk losing 30% if purchased through the app store, versus keeping 100% if sold outside of the app store.

7. Apps on the app store are very seldom geared toward professionals or enterprises.

8. Takes to darn long to search for what I want. A google search for a type of software is quicker. In the app store, I have to know the category, name, or developer. I cannot just type in a partial description and return results. And then when results are returned, I only get an icon, name, and rating. I have to click on each one to read the description. Where-as a google search will pull one to 5 lines from a well written website, making it easier to scan for what I am looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I downloaded a lot of apps from the app store, but that is only either because they were free; or I found them via a google search and chose the app store route because it was easier and did not have to supply my credit card to a developer I did not know.

Oh # 9. While I never experienced this myself, it seems that due to the apple approval process - some have complained that the app store version is 1-3 versions behind what the developer has as an official release on their website. Updates are sometimes quicker from the developer directly than waiting on the app store approval process. This is especially annoying if the update is a critical bug or vulnerability (virus, phishing) fix.


Just some of what I have heard. Not all are my experiences.

Haoshiro
Jul 1, 2011, 09:31 AM
I've bought a few things from it (Pixelmator, some iLife apps) as well as downloaded some free apps like TextWrangler.

I just purchased Paperless and I did not do it through the app store because it was $50 in the store, and $25 (50% off) direct from the developer.

Lack of promo code abilities and transferring out of store purchase to the store is a big draw back to me, I'd love to have all my software stay up to date through the app store, but don't want to re-buy the software to do it.

It makes sense about the promos though, at $50 the dev gets $35, if they did a 50% promo they'd only make $17.50, but the same promo direct and they make the full $25.

JHankwitz
Jul 1, 2011, 09:31 AM
I've had my iMacs and MacBooks far longer than the App Store has been around. I already own most of the Apps I need or want (in the range of 60 - 70). As a result, I've only purchased 3 new Apps from the App Store. I'm surprised the App store is selling as much Mac software as they are. Most sales must be to people that are switching over from PC to Mac or newbies.

Photics
Jul 1, 2011, 09:34 AM
Oh # 9. While I never experienced this myself, it seems that due to the apple approval process - some have complained that the app store version is 1-3 versions behind what the developer has as an official release on their website. Updates are sometimes quicker from the developer directly and waiting on the app store approval process. This is especially annoying if the update is a critical bug or vulnerability (virus, phishing) fix.

The approval process was faster than I thought it would be. Sure, it's not instant, but it's certainly easier than sending updates to a Brick and Mortar store.

I'm not too impressed with the software in the Mac App Store. If they want to get things going on in there, here are some apps that might increase activity...


Halo for Mac
iWork 11... or is it going to be iWork 12? :p
Pac-Man Championship Edition DX


Pixelmator seems to be doing really well on the Mac App Store. I'm surprised that there aren't more apps like that... inexpensive alternatives to higher priced software.

As for the Internet thing... if you don't get unlimited Internet access where you live, maybe you should move.

AdrianWerner
Jul 1, 2011, 09:53 AM
Ermm...iOS devices are simply vastly more popular than OSX ones, so I don't understand where the suprise about Mac appstore being dwarfed by iOS one comes from. :confused:

jonnysods
Jul 1, 2011, 10:50 AM
That's because the mac app store is lame. Good luck finding something you need on there, it's like trying to find an iOS app without knowing exactly what you are looking for.

*LTD*
Jul 1, 2011, 11:23 AM
Ermm...iOS devices are simply vastly more popular than OSX ones, so I don't understand where the suprise about Mac appstore being dwarfed by iOS one comes from. :confused:

This. It's pretty simple.

Once again, this situation is a microcosm of the general shift taking place industry-wide.

AAPLaday
Jul 1, 2011, 11:25 AM
This. It's pretty simple.

Once again, this situation is a microcosm of the general shift taking place industry-wide.

Either that, or the fact that an iOS device is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy than a mac.

Bubba Satori
Jul 1, 2011, 01:56 PM
Most programs that are really interesting aren't going near the App Store due to the various limitations that Apple has placed on developers.

Yep. Bag of proprietary retail hurt.

the8thark
Jul 2, 2011, 10:30 AM
Being new here, I know you can't know this, but *LTD* is a caricature poster.
I have read a lot of his posts. And I came up with this conclusion on my own. Please don't say "I don't know cause I am new here". There is a little truth in every attempt at humour. The trick is trying to pick out the truth from the BS.

So I will stand by my remark that I think *LTD*'s posts are just fine in my book.

trixiesirisheye
Jul 2, 2011, 11:55 AM
Here's a question: I have the latest Pages (iWork '09) on my computer, but it never showed up as installed on the App Store. I stopped following this stuff since the MAS was introduced... did Apple ever resolve these conflicts or indicate a workaround (besides spending $20 anew on something I already own)? Will I never be able to update my Pages again unless I re-buy it from the MAS?

Amen! I have over 90 apps on my Mac Pro (so I'm already pretty saturated. Maybe room for a utility app or two). When I launched Mac App Store, it showed 6 apps. So will they only show up if I buy them through the app store (which seems logical, but doesn't help me)?

How will I ever upgrade (not update, which is usually free or cheaper) the apps (at a cheaper price, yes) I already have through MAS? If they make that my sole route of software purchase/update/upgrade, what about the apps I already have?? Do I have to buy them all over again at a higher price so I can be plugged into MAS?

And I pretty much don't buy software unless I can demo it first. Maybe if it's a dollar I'll buy it anyway, but maybe not. I would need to know a free "Lite" version was essentially the same as the paid version, except for [fill in the blank]. Personally, I prefer a time-limited full-featured demo.

I'm confused, and I've been using Apple products for 28 years. This is not exactly intuitive.

Apple can push MAS as hard as it wants, but until it addresses these issues, the MAS is never going to be a resounding success.

heisetax
Jul 2, 2011, 01:16 PM
I haven't bought anything from the Mac App Store. The only thing I'm likely to buy is the upgrade to Lion.

I still prefer to support developers directly and get physical media if possible.
In iTunes, I've only bought a few albums; virtually all the music on my iPod Touch comes from CDs loaded into iTunes.

guess I'm just an old fashioned old coot.

Also I like to be able to download trial or demo versions. I don't want to shell out $40 for a major app only to find out it's useless or full of bugs or simply doesn't work at all.

The restrictions of having to use the Apple App Store for iOS programs + the lack of my 3rd gen iPod Touch to connect with my all Apple WiFi network on my Macs made me purchase an Android phone from Sprint. App Store or nothing = No App Store = Apple products.
At least at the present time the Mac App Store is optional for most of us. But that will be changing with the release of Mac OS 10.7 Lion. There we'll be forced into using the Mac App Store. Will this be like the iOS App Store that has kept me away. Back in 1984 I chose a Mac mainly because it did not have an Intel processor in it. I compromised myself in 2006 with a purchase of a 1st gen Intel Mac Pro. Now the Mac App Store if forced upon us like it is being with the next Ma OS update will that be the beginning of the end. Being a 27 year Mac User changing is not in the books. Going a decade without a new Mac has been done before.

Apple has now become the type of company that MicroSoft is. About all we have left is Linux. My son-in-law is a Linux User, so much so that their dog is named Linux, making him the only non-Mac User in the family.

We need choice. If the Mac App Store just gives us more choice then it is probably a good thing. If it with the Mac OS Lion 10.7 update just the beginning of forcing to use it with no other choice then I would say that the Mac App Store is or will be a bad thing. With Steve Jobs long, long history of wanting to control everything you do the Mac App Store is just another step in that direction.

LarryC
Jul 2, 2011, 02:47 PM
There is a lot about the previous two posts that I agree with. I wonder if Apple will say that users have to upgrade (debatable term) to 10.7 in order to use the Mac app store? I think that there are surely some very easy ways to fix or correct some of the problems with the Mac app store as it currently is. They could put in place a system where you could register your apps with the store if you have a serial number for your current product. Surely there is a way that this can be done. Personally, I do not like the idea of being locked into a closed system that is totally controlled by Apple. It does make me wonder if this is where we are headed. I do not agree that we are in a post pc era. Maybe that is the direction that Apple has chosen to go, but I choose to not go there.

twoodcc
Jul 2, 2011, 02:51 PM
I think it's cuz the prices are still high

firewood
Jul 2, 2011, 09:28 PM
not everyone who owns a mac has internet at home to shop the store.

It's not a question of everybody. It's a question of how many. And how much it costs Apple.

If a lot more people shop over the internet, and it's cheaper to sell stuff to them (no inventory costs, no shipping costs), why bother selling stuff to the smaller market at a lower profit?

Let some other company make less money per customer with fewer customers.

tinman0
Jul 3, 2011, 12:05 PM
The restrictions of having to use the Apple App Store for iOS programs + the lack of my 3rd gen iPod Touch to connect with my all Apple WiFi network on my Macs made me purchase an Android phone from Sprint. App Store or nothing = No App Store = Apple products.
At least at the present time the Mac App Store is optional for most of us. But that will be changing with the release of Mac OS 10.7 Lion. There we'll be forced into using the Mac App Store. Will this be like the iOS App Store that has kept me away. Back in 1984 I chose a Mac mainly because it did not have an Intel processor in it. I compromised myself in 2006 with a purchase of a 1st gen Intel Mac Pro. Now the Mac App Store if forced upon us like it is being with the next Ma OS update will that be the beginning of the end. Being a 27 year Mac User changing is not in the books. Going a decade without a new Mac has been done before.

Apple has now become the type of company that MicroSoft is. About all we have left is Linux. My son-in-law is a Linux User, so much so that their dog is named Linux, making him the only non-Mac User in the family.

We need choice. If the Mac App Store just gives us more choice then it is probably a good thing. If it with the Mac OS Lion 10.7 update just the beginning of forcing to use it with no other choice then I would say that the Mac App Store is or will be a bad thing. With Steve Jobs long, long history of wanting to control everything you do the Mac App Store is just another step in that direction.

Sorry, but you are being supremely melodramatic.

If you don't like MAS, don't buy from it. Simple as that. No one is making you do anything.

And you are making it sound like it's going to give you herpes. It's just an online store for software; use it, don't use it, whatever.

Peter Maurer
Jul 4, 2011, 02:30 AM
I happen to be the developer behind one of the other featured apps on that first Mac App Store screenshot in the original unity3d.com thread, and I doubt that Martin's story represents a typical Mac developer's mindset and/or expectations. And neither does most of what John Casasanta ever says or does.

As a developer who started out on the Mac, I think there are at least three things you can learn from this:

1) It's true that the Mac App Store isn't a "get rich quick" scheme, but you can make a decent living through MAS sales alone. Add your non-MAS sales to that, and you're in a better position than most people in most countries.

2) Porting Unity games might not be the best way to be successful on the Mac. This is hardly surprising, IMHO, as people buy Macs for reasons that are very different from why they buy iOS devices, and the target audience itself might be a different one as well.

3) You simply cannot expect to launch a product that's entirely new to the market and be successful right away, then move on to your next project. The Mac software market is about maintaining and improving apps over the years, and success builds up comparatively slowly while you grow a user base that spans all your products. We're farmers (http://blog.wilshipley.com/2011/04/success-and-farming-vs-mining.html).

This isn't the first time I wonder why Eric Slivka mistakes the Mac App Store for a gaming platform, by the way. I've been amazed by that angle ever since this story (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/01/04/developers-setting-expectations-ahead-of-mac-app-store-launch/).

Macist
Jul 7, 2011, 04:19 AM
I think the App Store is a very convenient way to buy and update applications but it'll take a while to be truly significant. I think when people start downloading Lion they'll 'get'the App store more. I didn't even look at it until Final Cut X came out and it's a painless buying process.

Final Cut X is great too, for many types of users at least, believe it or not...