For those of you who said that the Terri Schiavo case wouldn't set a precedent...

[dsharits]

This (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43688) is exactly what I feared would happen as a result of the Terri Schiavo case. I told you that it would not end with Terri Schiavo, but that it would get worse after the case was made final, and you said I was crazy. I didn't think it would happen so quickly, but it has happened. This is only the beginning. It will get worse from here. You said I was crazy by comparing the situation to Nazi Germany, but this is the next step down that same path. Tell me, where does it stop? Even worse, who's next?

[LeeTom]

Ummm.... Nazi Germany? This is more like a case of one messed up confused family that wasn't in step with their legal situation with Grandma.

I really don't see how this is any kind of slippery-slope case. I don't know if you realize how much crazy crap goes on in hospitals all over the country, but this is pretty minor, comparitively.

Get out of Florida, and this kind of stuff is of little importance.

[Blue Velvet]

"Grandmama is old and I think it is time she went home to Jesus,"
Anyone see the irony here?

After rereading the article a couple of times, the two main differences here is that A) the grand-daughter does not have the legal power of attorney and B) that this patient is not brain-dead.

I'm not sure how you can claim that this is similar to the Terri Schiavo case.

BTW, WordNetDaily is one deranged site... :rolleyes:

[skunk]

Apples and oranges.

[Lacero]

dsha*****, I think you are outta line comparing this with the Terri Shiavo case. Obviously, you don't know the differences between the two.

[Thomas Veil]

What precedent? The Schiavo case hasn't been quoted in this one, at least as far as the article goes. Nor is the court apparently enforcing Magouirck's wishes, which is what they did do with Schiavo.

Moreover, go to the website's main page (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43721), and you'll see that it has a definite right-wing slant. So I don't know if the story is being reported objectively.

And finally, I want to ask...if the all those right-wing politicians were so indignant about Schiavo, who did want to be left to die, why aren't they having conniption fits about this case? Far as I can tell, Tom DeLay doesn't even know who Magouirck is, much less he cares about her case.

[pseudobrit]

This is only the beginning. It will get worse from here. You said I was crazy by comparing the situation to Nazi Germany

You're still crazy.

but this is the next step down that same path. Tell me, where does it stop? Even worse, who's next?

Crazy people.

[yellow]

You're still crazy.
Crazy people.

[thumbs up] :)

[mactastic]

This (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43688) is exactly what I feared would happen as a result of the Terri Schiavo case. I told you that it would not end with Terri Schiavo, but that it would get worse after the case was made final, and you said I was crazy.

So you don't see any differences between this and the Schaivo case? None whatsoever? Come on...

I didn't think it would happen so quickly, but it has happened. This is only the beginning. It will get worse from here. You said I was crazy by comparing the situation to Nazi Germany, but this is the next step down that same path. Tell me, where does it stop? Even worse, who's next?

Only the beginning? Daniel, get out there and volunteer at your local hospice so you get an idea of how common these kinds of end-of-life decisions are.

[zimv20]

I don't know if the story is being reported objectively.

i google'd and it looks like no real news outlet is carrying the story.

[Thomas Veil]

i google'd and it looks like no real news outlet is carrying the story.Yeah, well, no real news outlet is carrying the story about Rick Santorum, the coconut oil and the squirrels either. Doesn't mean it isn't true. ;)

[Lacero]

Santorum... LOL. :D

[solvs]

Apparently, Robert Blake killed his wife. When asked why he said "what? OJ got away with it".

In other words, just because someone did something like this, and compares it to the Schiavo case (which I am still staying out of), there's no reason to say we're entering Nazi Germany. Where the heck did you even get Nazi Germany? I don't remember the Nazi's killing their Grandmas.

And in other news, Tom Delay killed his daddy (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=delay+schiavo+father&tab=&fr=my-vert-web-top&btn=Yahoo%21+Search+).

[pseudobrit]

Where the heck did you even get Nazi Germany? I don't remember the Nazi's killing their Grandmas..

No, but they did kill the retards.
Perhaps some people are afraid the bar will be set too high for them.

[IJ Reilly]

Owwwch!

[CanadaRAM]

The only "prececent" in the Schiavo case was that the courts, through numerous appeals, upheld the rule of law and the right of the person entrusted with the legal responsibility to make that decision.

The danger of the US leaving democracy lies directly in the path of a President who publicly declares that his personal convictions ought to overrule the considered judgement of the highest court of the nation, and that he thinks it appropriate to interfere in the most private concerns of his citizens and remove from them their personal rights.

And as demonstrated, that any and all means can and should be used by special interest groups and political partisans to effect that overturn of law, denial of privacy and removal of personal rights.

AND I am completely out of line posting this opinion as I should be concerned with the shortcomings of my own national leaders, and not obsessing over how the most powerful nation on earth is acting as if it is above not only international law but their own laws as well.

[Xtremehkr]

I don't remember anybody (not even you ds) talking about this setting a precedence. This was established law that has been enacted thousands of times, if precedence was set it was a long time ago in a different case.

Are you revising history just a little bit in an attempt to throw this article in the faces of a few people?

Or is it just more doom and gloom speak from the right, based on all the bad things that will happen if they don't get their political hay, I mean way.

[Thomas Veil]

The danger of the US leaving democracy lies directly in the path of a President who publicly declares that his personal convictions ought to overrule the considered judgement of the highest court of the nation, and that he thinks it appropriate to interfere in the most private concerns of his citizens and remove from them their personal rights.Well put. You've got it better than half the Americans I know.

AND I am completely out of line posting this opinion as I should be concerned with the shortcomings of my own national leaders, and not obsessing over how the most powerful nation on earth is acting as if it is above not only international law but their own laws as well.No, I think we need to international community to keep scolding us, since our leaders are obviously way too big for their britches. In fact -- and I say this in the full knowledge that some may consider it treason -- I think that the next time this U.S. administration prepares to go to war the way it did in Iraq, perhaps the international community should mobilize their troops to stop us. As long as our leaders think they can go around picking on individual countries, they'll continue to do it. They won't stop until they find they face the wrath of the entire world.

[pseudobrit]

I don't remember anybody (not even you ds) talking about this setting a precedence. This was established law that has been enacted thousands of times, if precedence was set it was a long time ago in a different case.

Numerous established court rulings were cited by both sides of the Schaivo dispute. The many courts who looked at precedence, the laws, and the Constitution found, unanimously, that the precedents set were in favour of Mr. Schaivo.

[Xtremehkr]

Numerous established court rulings were cited by both sides of the Schaivo dispute. The many courts who looked at precedence, the laws, and the Constitution found, unanimously, that the precedents set were in favour of Mr. Schaivo.

Exactly, this case set no new precedents, it was decided based upon established law.

What was the precedent set (by this particular case) DS?

[IJ Reilly]

Exactly, this case set no new precedents, it was decided based upon established law.

What was the precedent set (by this particular case) DS?

Well I don't know about you but I plan on running to my local hospitals and ripping feeding tubes out of as many people as possible. That's what those liberalactivistjudges said I could do, right?

[Xtremehkr]

Well I don't know about you but I plan on running to my local hospitals and ripping feeding tubes out of as many people as possible. That's what those liberalactivistjudges said I could do, right?

I thought that is what all good liberals are doing these days?

[mischief]

Okay, First I'll encourage posters to have a good look at that website. That is the face of the current round of paranoia propoganda. We've graduated from Commies and The Bomb to The End Times.

History shows us that the most powerful force any political group can use is religion/tradition as it circumvents reason and instantly calls into question the moral standing and good qualities of any dissenter. The bloodiest and most heinous conflicts in human history have come down to this. Even the Turd Reich was built on myth and the illusion of "tradition" drawing on folk tales.

I find great irony in ds comparing all of this to Naziism as I have been drawing more thoughtful parallels along that line for months now.

In terms of the Ethnic Cleansing aspect..... Sheer paranoia. I'd like to add also that Downs persons aren't exactly the swiftest boats on the pond but they're most often the most empathic and compassionate people you'll ever meet. They also often have more horse sense than 75% of the Legislature.

If we're going to euthanize (not just discontinue life support) it should be on the basis of substantial and extensive medical, psychological and legal review. I feel that executing people (which is still euthanasia) based on Jury review is a little hanky just as I feel that not euthanizing the irreversably, terminally ill is inherently inhumane. With that out of the way I'll move on to a little brevity:

If we really want some social darwininsm, maybe we should install killbooths on public byways. They'd look like oldschool telephone booths but with a big red button at adult eye-level labelled with a skull and crossbones plus "Lethal Danger. Do Not Press." written on it in the major languages and an identical audio warning when the booth is entered. The button triggers the booth's closing and locking followed by six foot long blender-style blades pistoning up out of the floor, flooding of the (sealed) chamber and a rapid, excruciating death. The process would finish out with a flushing and sterilizing of the booth's interior surfaces. This system fills the predatory niche left vacant when Homo Sapiens first discovered the sharpened stick. The premise, of course is to prey on the stupid people of every condition. You could even modify the ones in the Bible belt to have slot-machine circuitry and change the warning to read: "Lethal Danger, Does God Love You?"

[mactastic]

Link (http://www.chrisgeidner.com/blog/archive/003210.html)

A state senator is seeking to give prosecutors and the state's Attorney General a say in Ohioans' end-of-life decisions. This and other provisions and proposals are about to hit the statehouse in the wake of the national debate that centered around Terri Schiavo.

According to a letter circulated Friday to Ohio senators (a copy of which can be found here in Microsoft Word format), Sen. Jeff Jacobson (R-Butler Twp.) will be introducing a bill in the coming days to address "[o]ur laws dealing with health decisions."

The bill would "[e]nable[] the attorney general or prosecuting attorneys to present evidence to probate courts before the court determines whether to withhold or withdraw life-sustaining treatment or nutrition and hydration."

In addition, the letter seeking co-sponsors for the proposed bill also details the changes the bill would have in situations when a person does not have a "living will, durable power of attorney over healthcare, or express consent":

Current law establishes specific individuals who are prioritized in a list of classes. Presently, only the highest priority class available can decide to withhold or withdraw nutrition and hydration; those individuals in a lower priority class who disagree would not be consulted until the matter is considered in probate court. This proposal would enable any priority-class individual to have a voice in preserving their loved one's life.
In the House, Democrat-turned-Republican Rep. Derrick Seaver (R-Minster) intends to introduce a bill that would go even further. His bill would direct the probate court to "give preference to the first individual" on the priority-class list who will:

(1.) will sustain the life of the individual
(2.) will incur the cost of medical care for the individual
Seaver's letter can be found here (also in Microsoft Word format). Jacobson's letter asks for interested co-sponsors to contact his office by Wednesday, while Seaver's gives members until Friday.

This is the precedent we claimed would be set by an activist Congress. And look, now it's come to pass. The nanny-state is here, brought to you by your friendly and compassionate conservatives...

[leekohler]

dsha*****, I think you are outta line comparing this with the Terri Shiavo case. Obviously, you don't know the differences between the two.

Yes- please review the the two cases, then you will understand they're completely different.

[iGary]

This (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43688) is exactly what I feared would happen as a result of the Terri Schiavo case. I told you that it would not end with Terri Schiavo, but that it would get worse after the case was made final, and you said I was crazy. I didn't think it would happen so quickly, but it has happened. This is only the beginning. It will get worse from here. You said I was crazy by comparing the situation to Nazi Germany, but this is the next step down that same path. Tell me, where does it stop? Even worse, who's next?

Man, the Bible and the religious right have you scared out of your pants. Must be fun. :rolleyes:

[solvs]

Man, the Bible and the religious right have you scared out of your pants. Must be fun. :rolleyes:
I dunno, they scare me a bit as well. :p