Steve Jobs Payment

[MacRumors]

This report reveals (http://www.erieri.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=NewsRoom.Dsp_Release&PressReleaseID=78) that despite Apple's CEO not earning a salary... he was the highest paid executive due to bonuses in the most recent survey:

The highest paid exec for the most recent survey period was Steven Jobs, CEO, Apple Computer. He received no salary but was given a $43,511,534 bonus.

[Choppaface]

he he, .mac profits maybe? :D

[barkmonster]

I wonder if that kind of bonus is carried down the ranks on a scale of 1 - 1000, I think I want a job working for apple as an office goffer :D

Sure, making coffee and photocopying stuff would bore me to tears but it would all be worth it at the end of the year.

[Tiauguinho]

Not bad... But I still do enjoy to know that he still doesn't have any salary!

[Mr. Anderson]

that's an obscene amount of money.....I'd like to see him go for a couple of years with out pay and without a bonus (he could easily swing it) to show his support for his company. Getting away with 43 million as a 'bonus' makes a farce of not having a paycheck.

D

[Chisholm]

If it is a "bonus" is it taxed at a higher or lower rate than a "salary"? Is this some kind of voodoo? I thought it was somewhat valiant when Steve-O came back to no salary (but a nice chunk of Apple stock) or $1 dollar a year.

Just would hate for this to screw Apple as a company.

Any insite TaxMan?

-me

[Nebrie]

Looks like another very misleading survey. They are probably counting the dollar amount for fiscal 2001 since 2002 isn't over yet. Guess what Steve got in 2000 that he didn't officially get till 2001 that's worth 43 million. That Gulfstream V Jet. If you spread out that over his entire stay over at Apple, it doesn't come out to anywhere as much.

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by dukestreet
that's an obscene amount of money.....I'd like to see him go for a couple of years with out pay and without a bonus (he could easily swing it) to show his support for his company. Getting away with 43 million as a 'bonus' makes a farce of not having a paycheck.

D

He did. He just got 43 million in the form of a jet for saving apple and going for years without pay or bonuses exactly as you said.

[DannyZR2]

I say congrats to Steve.. The genius is worth it..

[3777]

That is a disgrace.....a 43 million dollar bonus, give me a break. I bust my a$$ for 50k a year, and there are people no better then I am, getting 40 million dollar bonuses. Until this type of stuff ends the world will never change. Teachers make 30k a year, while stupid baseball players make 100 million....... it's all crap.:mad:

[shadowfax]

let's watch the marxist rhetoric--you're bourgeois; only the working class is allowed to bitch like that!

society will always have problems. i would be quicker to whine about how there are so many people who work just as hard as you and stay way under the poverty line instead of whine about how there is someone way out there above you doing nothing for x million dollars a year. trust me, therre are a lot more people under the poverty line than as well paid as bill or steve.

[uhlawboi80]

while i agree that teachers get the shaft and baseball morons make 100mil, and this is just a reflection on the way our society MISvalues many things. but really, if the 43mil steve got was just a jet i dont think its bad...he travels alot, and tons of other execs get jets AND paid huge salaries. course, i live about a mile from where the Enron execs lived...so i cant hate on steve, its all still focused at them and ken lays wife's store! ;)

[3777]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
let's watch the marxist rhetoric--you're bourgeois; only the working class is allowed to bitch like that!

society will always have problems. i would be quicker to whine about how there are so many people who work just as hard as you and stay way under the poverty line instead of whine about how there is someone way out there above you doing nothing for x million dollars a year. trust me, therre are a lot more people under the poverty line than as well paid as bill or steve.


Dude I'm a registered Republican, but I can call a spade a spade.:rolleyes:

[mozez]

all in all, steve is great at what he does, i mean, he takes risks that most others are to afraid to do, like changing the os platform completely by going to unix, that was a pretty big risk if you ask me, give him a jet, i'd say that was worth it, only bad side is can apple really afford it?

[superfula]

Originally posted by 3777
That is a disgrace.....a 43 million dollar bonus, give me a break. I bust my a$$ for 50k a year, and there are people no better then I am, getting 40 million dollar bonuses. Until this type of stuff ends the world will never change. Teachers make 30k a year, while stupid baseball players make 100 million....... it's all crap.:mad:

No baseball player makes 100 million per year. Until you realize that how much people make doesn't make much difference, you'll always be a fanatical republican who doesn't know much about sports.

[RowdyFROG]

Hmmm...I think since steve is such a great guy, or so many of you say, that he should use his money to provide 840,000 students a free .Mac account.

But I guess that would only leave him a miniscule 1.5 million to feed, clothe and shelter his familyand himself. Might have to change to a cheaper brand of caviar.

Excuse my cynical nature, but 43+ mill is disgusting.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by RowdyFROG
Might have to change to a cheaper brand of caviar.

As far as I know Steve is a vegetarian; may even be vegan. So the correct putdown would be "Might have to change to a cheaper brand of tofudogs."

But he could be a fish-eating vegetarian, in which case he may very well consume obcene amounts of Beluga.

[uhlawboi80]

first of all, regardless of how much a pro athlete actually makes a year, they are over paid for the benefits they bestow upon society. MD's get out of school 100's of thousands of dollars in debt and it takes them a long time to pay it off and they save lifes daily. What exactly makes a man who can hit a ball with a stick deserve millions a year (and the right to bitch when they want more)?

ALSO 3777 i'm not sure where you get off thinking people making more money than you are no better than you. im sure they dont think they are, they just make more money. Do you think people who make 20k a year are worse than you? not sure i saw the point of that portion of your rant...

[cubist]

I thought the Republicans were the ones who thought people should get paid differently commensurate with their abilities. The Democrats were the ones who thought everyone should get paid the same... after all, the Democrats have one idea and one idea only: Raise taxes. The Republicans don't have an idea.

[Vector]

Originally posted by mozez
all in all, steve is great at what he does, i mean, he takes risks that most others are to afraid to do, like changing the os platform completely by going to unix, that was a pretty big risk if you ask me, give him a jet, i'd say that was worth it, only bad side is can apple really afford it?

Apple has about $11 in cash or equivalents per share, which is well over 4 billion dollars. That is in cash or other things with high liquidity so they are not hurting for money. It is an obscene amount, and steve has a whole lot of money anyway without the bonus. Also this isnt really an accurate account of the bonus, it is from Redmond, Wa. Steve got his bonus more than a year ago in the form of the gulfstream and lots of options (i dont think he has exercised them yet, or at least not alot of them). While he doesnt need it, he does deserve it (although it is excessive) for turning apple around and since he only is paid $1 per year. If steve had not returned, apple would be on the verge of death or dead right now, and obviously the board and the large stockholders seem to think his work is worth 43.5 mil.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by dukestreet
that's an obscene amount of money.....I'd like to see him go for a couple of years with out pay and without a bonus (he could easily swing it) to show his support for his company. Getting away with 43 million as a 'bonus' makes a farce of not having a paycheck.

D

No dough, no go. He is in for a penny, in for a poind. Not only does he make no salary and receive all of his proceeds by bonus, but he also has stock options tied to STOCKHOLDER value.

Rocketman.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Chisholm
If it is a "bonus" is it taxed at a higher or lower rate than a "salary"? Is this some kind of voodoo? I thought it was somewhat valiant when Steve-O came back to no salary (but a nice chunk of Apple stock) or $1 dollar a year.

Just would hate for this to screw Apple as a company.

Any insite TaxMan?

-me

It can be put into a deferred comp plan and taxed as withdrawn. But all spent money is taxed. At regular income rate I believe. But he also has deductions like you can't believe with group travel expenses and such.

[exbox]

Originally posted by dukestreet
that's an obscene amount of money.....I'd like to see him go for a couple of years with out pay and without a bonus (he could easily swing it) to show his support for his company. Getting away with 43 million as a 'bonus' makes a farce of not having a paycheck.

D

so, pretty much, you want a awesome ceo to work for free? I dont think that you are ever going to find someone to work for free. Steve deserves this money, he has worked for it.

[pgwalsh]

Pocket change!

[mmoore00]

Originally posted by Chisholm
If it is a "bonus" is it taxed at a higher or lower rate than a "salary"? Is this some kind of voodoo? I thought it was somewhat valiant when Steve-O came back to no salary (but a nice chunk of Apple stock) or $1 dollar a year.

Just would hate for this to screw Apple as a company.

Any insite TaxMan?

-me

I remember Steve only holding on to one share of apple stock... and I remember reading that somewhere in Apple's financial records when I was researching Larry Ellison's attendance at board meetings. Steve makes his money at Pixar from stock holdings - not at apple (besides this bonus, I guess).

[etoiles]

Originally posted by exbox


so, pretty much, you want a awesome ceo to work for free? I dont think that you are ever going to find someone to work for free. Steve deserves this money, he has worked for it.

Nobody works for free, but there is a loooooooooong sliding scale between 0 and 43million. I am sure he has worked hard, but to get that amount of money/plane you don't just work hard, you also have to put yourself into a position of power and control. In other words, don't try to find justice here, its is only people looking after their own interests at this point. NOBODY needs a private jet, believe me. This is ridiculous, even if it is 'normal' for corporate standards. Whoever dies with the most toys still dies...

And if you are not bitter at that point, then just look at it this way: who pays for all the toys in the end ? And of course: where are the real high end macs ? But that is another story...

[etoiles]

...and I forgot, who pays for the plane fuel ?

[digitalgiant]

Originally posted by exbox


so, pretty much, you want a awesome ceo to work for free? I dont think that you are ever going to find someone to work for free. Steve deserves this money, he has worked for it.

Man I dont care who you are or what you do,,,,its not worth 43 mil. It just makes me sick that my wife makes $1600 a month teaching little jackass kids. This is FAR more important than giving a CEO a jet. I can see make a good wage,,,,but 43 mil?? Come on dude its just to much.

[skunk]

Is that $43 million before or after tax? Have you seen the price of organic vegetables these days?

[danielwilliams]

Originally posted by digitalgiant


Man I dont care who you are or what you do,,,,its not worth 43 mil. It just makes me sick that my wife makes $1600 a month teaching little jackass kids. This is FAR more important than giving a CEO a jet. I can see make a good wage,,,,but 43 mil?? Come on dude its just to much.

Sorry that your wife decided to go to school and get a degree in a field were she knew that the average salary was low.... but hey that was her choice.... just like everyone else...

Let's not forget that Jobs has worked hard over the last 20 years to get where he is today. I am so sick of hearing people complain about others abilities to acheive their goals...

If you have such a problem with your wife's job choice, let her develop some device that the rest of the world wants and over the next 2 decades build a number of companies that employee hundreds of people, and then only take home $60,000 a year.

Or get a new wife...

God what a bunch of whining losers....

[Thirteenva]

Are we forgetting something Steve did co-found apple computer, I think he's entitled to some "fruits of his labor". I'm not saying that 43 mill is not an obscene amount of money, but hell, i should hope i could create a company capable of such gain that i could garner that kind of bonus....

innovate, create, do what apple did and you to can achieve these "rediculous" bonuses

[chubakka]

Steve Jobs CREATED apple.
Got bumped out.
Came back and reinvented the company.
And doesn't pull down a salary!

Movie stars get 10-30 million dollars per film... for 3 months work.
Sports stars get 3-10 million per season. There are CEOs who pull down sick salaries and perks that don't even run profitable companies.

Cut Steve Jobs some slack. Is anyone bitching about how Bill Gates is the richest man in the U.S.? Or how much monkey boy Balmer makes?

Steve-O is worth ALOT to Apple.

[markiv810]

Originally posted by 3777
That is a disgrace.....a 43 million dollar bonus, give me a break. I bust my a$$ for 50k a year, and there are people no better then I am, getting 40 million dollar bonuses. Until this type of stuff ends the world will never change. Teachers make 30k a year, while stupid baseball players make 100 million....... it's all crap.:mad:

Come on look at Bill Gates he has made 43 billion dollars and is known worldwide as a Programming Genius when he cannot program. The programmers working in any software company do more work than the owner. It's everywhere, even at your office, your employer ( owner of the company where you work) would be making millions of dollars every year for attending board meetings etc. What about somebody who was born a billionaire, he didn't do anything to earn that money, but my fair guess would be that for me to make that much money in this lifetime is impossible. And btw, the guy who works at MacDonalds I guess puts in more effort than you and me and he gets nothing compared to what we make. Quit complaining.

Steve deserves the money he is getting without him there would be no Apple.

[drastik]

This is the free world, folks, everybody gets their chance and the playing field is sorta level for most of us.

My guesss is, that given steves character and reputation, he probably gives away more money in a year than eny of you will earn. He made the money, its his to do with as he pleases, and he deserves whatever the board and stock holders feel he is entitled to. The jet was a good move on the Apple's booard's side, because it gets used for a great deal of apple business. Corporations own jets because it saves them money and time (which is also money.)

Woz didn't start with a crap load of money either, but he's a bilionaire these days, owned a couple of pro sprts teams here and there, probably still has a buch of stock in Apple, etc. If any of you could design the first apple motherboards et al, or at least the modern equivilent, you would be filthy rich too.

0f course, for people like our kill-happy president, you get the chance to borrow money on you failing company to buy stock in a good company to borrow against to buy controling interest in a baseballl team for less money than the second string first base coah makes (even with danger pay.) But that's only if your daddy is in the white house and you take some insider traing deals.

You wanna be pissed about greed and privilage, get pissed about that, then vote.

[GPTurismo]

It is a disgrace. 43 Million? Sheesh. Next enron maybe? worldcom?

Also, a great ceo should get good money, but not more than what 85% of the world countries make in a year...

To bad I am even more addicted to the hardware and os now that MOSX 10.2 came out ;_;

[gweedo]

People, he didn't get $43 million in cash. If you read back a few years for the facts, when he turned apple around to profitibility, as a show of thanks, the apple board gave him a gulfstream V jet and $ to pay for the taxes on the jet. They didn't just write him a check for $43 million.

Considering what he has done for apple, and what he has asked for in return, I think he more than earned this. If you have a problem with it, yell at apple's board... but if sir jobs hadn't turned things around, you all might be running Win XP right now. :-)

[P-Worm]

So wait, I'm confused, when do we get our cut? :confused:

P-Worm

[etoiles]

This is not a question of choosing the right job, and the playing field is not even for most of us, sorry... that is just the myth of the American dream.

In the US, 40% of the nations wealth is owned by 1% of the population, while 13.7% of the population lives in poverty. Don't tell me that those 'losers' are all lazy, unmotivated workers. Somebody said that unregulated market capitalism was the best system ?

43mil might not be much compared to the salaries of movie stars or other CEO's, but don't compare bad and worse.

As for Steve Jobs being valuable for Apple, sure, but that would probably still be a couple millions for every good decision...without subtracting anything for the bad ones...

;)

I whine, because I can. And it is fun, you too should try. :D

[iShater]

Originally posted by chubakka
Cut Steve Jobs some slack. Is anyone bitching about how Bill Gates is the richest man in the U.S.? Or how much monkey boy Balmer makes?

Steve-O is worth ALOT to Apple.

Last time I checked Microsoft was making Billions of dollars. :D

[chubakka]

Last time I checked Apple had 4 billion in the bank.

The only other computer company making a profit besides Dell.

They say Steve is the highest paid CEO because he got the 43 mil in one quarter. Other CEOs are making alot more than that but it's spread out over 4 quarters. Make a 100 mil a year and you only get paid 25 a quarter.

And by the way... it probably only covers the expenses of his Jet.

[iShater]

Originally posted by chubakka
Last time I checked Apple had 4 billion in the bank.

The only other computer company making a profit besides Dell.

They say Steve is the highest paid CEO because he got the 43 mil in one quarter. Other CEOs are making alot more than that but it's spread out over 4 quarters. Make a 100 mil a year and you only get paid 25 a quarter.

And by the way... it probably only covers the expenses of his Jet.

I hear ya, but I am saying that probably because Gates is in a much better position right now than Steve people do this. If Apple we giving better hardware (for those who are waiting for it), making ridiculous amounts of money, then nobody would wine.

Just an observation. I am not saying he doesn't deserve the bonus for the turn around he did.

Btw, this is Microsofts cash and short investment holdings, in millions of $

Total cash and short-term investments 38,652 :eek: :rolleyes:

[SPG]

Originally posted by cubist
I thought the Republicans were the ones who thought people should get paid differently commensurate with their abilities. The Democrats were the ones who thought everyone should get paid the same... after all, the Democrats have one idea and one idea only: Raise taxes. The Republicans don't have an idea.

Huh? Neither party has any desire to set salaries and compensation. That is up to the free market. As a gross oversimplification, the republicans feel that the world would be a better place if government got out of business' way and let the market decide everything. The Democrats feel that it is government's responsibility to make sure that business does not trample the rights and safety of the people in the quest for greater profits.

"Read my lips. No new taxes." -Bush the elected shortly before introducing new tax increases on the middle class.

Bush the selected is about to push us into a war with Iraq to finish daddy's business and who do you think will pay the price for all those million dollar smart bombs? The taxpayer. How will the taxpayer pay for this? With tax increases. The democrats aren't the ones pushing this new war, it's the unelected president and the republican party members who want it and will then pass off the cost to the working people, not the corporations who will profit from it or the rich who own the corporations.

whew, sorry about the rant...

[humantech]

Hmmm...
Steve made Lots of money. I didnt. It is obscene.
Hmmm.... I made lots of money- I'm a good person.I work hard. 24X7 for 25 years or so. I deserve it.
Anyone here made the first statement and think they woudlnt make the second statement?
Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone.
I for one am happy for him. Thats a LOT of money for sure, and yes there are those without ( me included at times), but what he gets paid isnt the reason they are down and out.
For those who complain that they work very hard for $50,000 a year ( BTW, i own my own business work 80 hour weeks sometimes and make like $30,000- $40,000 so can I have half of your hard earned $50,000 because i feel cheated for my choices ?), figure out a way to do more. I dont know, maybe revolutionize computing and create an entire industry that feeds and clothes millions of people worldwide. Or, go hit a " ball with a stick" at a level that allows you millions a year. bottome line, stop whining and do something about it. Bourgouis. PLEASE. There are LOTS of completely immoral ways to make that kind of money, and to see someone doing it the right way ( GREAT forward thinking ideas, GREAT products, GREAT company performance without sacrificing service, etc....) is really refreshing.
Anyone complaining about this could maybe use their whine time to daydream and create something new that might just be the next "subsidized airplane idea"
Bottom Line. Without Steve, ALL apple employees, their families and anyone affected financially by their success are not going to eat tomorrow. Personally, I wouldnt worry about what Steve makes. Think about what kind've possible Ripple affect you are having on those around you. The reality distortion field Takes care of a LOT of people, so GO STEVE!
As always, just my 2 sents
Tech

[guv]

concidering that apple makes lik $50 mil a quater, if he idnt get that back it would at a large sum to their anual profits

[danielwilliams]

Originally posted by etoiles
This is not a question of choosing the right job, and the playing field is not even for most of us, sorry... that is just the myth of the American dream.

In the US, 40% of the nations wealth is owned by 1% of the population, while 13.7% of the population lives in poverty. Don't tell me that those 'losers' are all lazy, unmotivated workers. Somebody said that unregulated market capitalism was the best system ?

43mil might not be much compared to the salaries of movie stars or other CEO's, but don't compare bad and worse.

As for Steve Jobs being valuable for Apple, sure, but that would probably still be a couple millions for every good decision...without subtracting anything for the bad ones...

;)

I whine, because I can. And it is fun, you too should try. :D

Good God, even Communist Russia has learned that "spreading" the wealth doesn't work...

I will start worrying about the "Losers" of this country when I see them stop buying all the crap that they fill there lives with, stop producing children that they can't afford to raise, and start taking better care of themselves physically.

Until that time, those who do take responsibility for themselves and are successful should be praised as heros....

[Mirus]

How did this get turned into a political debate?

For one thing, why all the bitching about how much Jobs makes? Does it really affect your life knowing that Steve makes exponentially more than you do? If you feel cheated out of life take a risk and start your own company!!! After you calm down a bit after that statement tell me how many Fortune 1000 CEOs make less than the average income (as defined by the Treasury Department this is a whopping $25K, yes, even teachers are paid above the national average, but should be paid more, IMHO)...

Now for rant #2...
This is not a question of choosing the right job, and the playing field is not even for most of us, sorry... that is just the myth of the American dream.

In the US, 40% of the nations wealth is owned by 1% of the population, while 13.7% of the population lives in poverty. Don't tell me that those 'losers' are all lazy, unmotivated workers. Somebody said that unregulated market capitalism was the best system ?

You also failed to mention that the top 1% (household income above $290K/yr) pay well over 30% of the Federal Personal Income Tax... Looking even closer at the facts we see that the top 10% (above $80K) pay 65% of the Income Tax. What about the 50% below $25K? 4.2%!!!

The fact is you must work hard to get ahead... Yes, some people are born wealthy. But some of us worked hard to get where we are today. If Steve decided to flip burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that) for the rest of his life he wouldn't have gotten a $43M bonus now would he? Why do you not consider the "playing field" even? What's preventing you from being a millionaire (if you aren't already)? I could be, but I chose a different path, there was nothing forcing me to have a net worth in the thousands rather than millions other than my own choosing!!!

[jsarbino]

Hi, I've never posted before, but the passionate outcries on this thread have inspired me to speak up. People here are either happy that Steve gets a lot of money, or they are infuriated by it. Has anyone ever really asked why he gets so much in the first place? Sure he "turned the company around", and sure he brings that unique "Steve-ness" to the company that nobody else can. But is that all? I mean, how do you even value something like that?And if you try to tell me "compare it to other CEO salaries" I don't buy it. Frankly, I think you have to compare other company CEOs to Steve Jobs, but that's another topic. No, I say the reason Steve Jobs gets "paid" what he does, and the reason Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer and Kenneth Lay for that matter get "paid" what they do is because they do a job nobody else will touch. Nobody wants to have these jobs. I know, sounds crazy, but bear with me. CEOs get paid what they do BECAUSE OF scandals like Enron and woldcom. What if I told you I was going to give you a job that would give you incredible power? You would get to direct the operations of a multinational billion dollar company. Sounds good, right? Now what if I told you that if you ever make a mistake, I'm going to freeze your assets and take everything you own to pay for the mistake you made that left thousands of shareholders penniless. The amount could easily leave you hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. How much would you want to be paid for that job? How willing are you to take on that sort of liability? Would you do it for 50k? What about 100k? 200k? OK, how about 43 mil? Everyone begged Steve Jobs to come back to Apple, but the exercise is tantamount to begging someone to slice their own throat. What if he hadn't turned the company around? What if he hadn't "earned his bonus"? What if the company went bankrupt after an anti-trust suit was brought against the company for violations surrounding how they package the applications that work with the new operating system? Seriously! How many people have bought 10.2 because of the hype about iCal, iSync, and .Mac? I don't care if you think that's stupid. People do stupid things. Look at Internet Explorer. Where would Steve be if any of that happened and he DIDN'T have his bonus? Anyway, whatever. sorry this post is so long.

[etoiles]

Originally posted by Mirus

You also failed to mention that the top 1% (household income above $290K/yr) pay well over 30% of the Federal Personal Income Tax... Looking even closer at the facts we see that the top 10% (above $80K) pay 65% of the Income Tax. What about the 50% below $25K? 4.2%!!!

The fact is you must work hard to get ahead... Yes, some people are born wealthy. But some of us worked hard to get where we are today. If Steve decided to flip burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that) for the rest of his life he wouldn't have gotten a $43M bonus now would he? Why do you not consider the "playing field" even? What's preventing you from being a millionaire (if you aren't already)? I could be, but I chose a different path, there was nothing forcing me to have a net worth in the thousands rather than millions other than my own choosing!!!

waaaaaaait a minute. Of course, people with more money pay more taxes, but that still makes them richer than the rest...and where does the tax money go ? Hardly into the poor people's pocket. I would not say anything if there was at least a good health system or a solid public school system in this country...And people who pay more taxes tend to have more political power, they are more likely to grab the attention of politicians. As for the 'playing field', well higher education is not accessible to everybody, women still get paid less (and are less likely to 'climb the corporate ladder') than men in general, ethnic background makes a difference etc. Sure, you can always come up with that killer business plan and create your own company or product, but it is a hell of a lot more difficult when you spend all day flipping burgers, not because you are lazy but because that is the only job anybody will give you. I am not saying that everybody should have the same salary, but the gap between rich and poor in America has tremendously increased over the last twenty years, which is not healthy for a country as a whole...okay, I'll stop here, I must be three billion light years off topic by now.

So, I'll join the chant: go steve ! Don't forget to release those high end powermacs anyday, christmas is coming up !


;)

[big]

Man, I might read those last two posts if they were

well,

formed easier to read

(try the return key at least once)

[scem0]

Why is it such an odd amount of money. Couldn't they just give him 43.5 mil, or something like that instead of 43.53691 mil. I made up that # btw.

[jadam]

Originally posted by etoiles


waaaaaaait a minute. Of course, people with more money pay more taxes, but that still makes them richer than the rest...and where does the tax money go ? Hardly into the poor people's pocket. I would not say anything if there was at least a good health system or a solid public school system in this country...And people who pay more taxes tend to have more political power, they are more likely to grab the attention of politicians. As for the 'playing field', well higher education is not accessible to everybody, women still get paid less (and are less likely to 'climb the corporate ladder') than men in general, ethnic background makes a difference etc. Sure, you can always come up with that killer business plan and create your own company or product, but it is a hell of a lot more difficult when you spend all day flipping burgers, not because you are lazy but because that is the only job anybody will give you. I am not saying that everybody should have the same salary, but the gap between rich and poor in America has tremendously increased over the last twenty years, which is not healthy for a country as a whole...okay, I'll stop here, I must be three billion light years off topic by now.

So, I'll join the chant: go steve ! Don't forget to release those high end powermacs anyday, christmas is coming up !


;)

..., better public school system??

If your smart, you get into a good public school, if your a ****ing retard you go to a bad one. Thats what they do here in NYC theyve got Stuyvensant, Bronx Science, and Brooklyn Tech for the "smart" ones, i go to Bronx Science :P

anyways, UHMM...

Gap between rich and poor?? PLEASE, look at these poor people, most of them are idiotic ****ers. Seriously, if those people would stop for one moment and THINK, what do i need to do to be successful in life? Flipping burgers aint getting you nowhere, what company gives a rats ass that you flipped burgers. You have to study hard to get a good job. You dont just say i want to be rich and you become rich all of a sudden. Lots of these people stayed in school for years studying and learning becoming what they are now. I Plan on studying and doing something with my life. If your wife decides to teach jackass kids and only makes $30,000, its because thats all shes capable of making, if she decided to learn some more she would make more. Look at how much good college professors make! they are teachers, yet they make ****loads more than $30,000 because they are much smarter. and agreed sports players and movie stars get payed way to ****ing much, those ****ing monkeys. Mostly every single movie star is a ****ing retard, who doesnt understand ****.
Why the hell do you guys care what steve makes, i mean seriously the guy worked hard for where he is right now, he went to school, he studied, he came up with an Idea in the 1980s that NONE of you would of though of. I mean tell me, did your wife think about making a computer in the 1980s??? did ANY of you think about it and decide ok, im want to make a computer that will make me rich. DO YOU know how easy it is to say that?? then do you know how hard it is to put those words into action, actually building a computer and running a multibillion dollar corporation? I THINK NOT!

and btw, last i heard, IBM makes 100billion a year so apples 4billion pales in comparison.

[quanta]

Jadam apparently is either not very old/wise, and he certainly isn't as smart as he thinks he is. In fact, he demonstrates the highest amount of ignorance displayed in this entire thread. Which isn't to say that there is no merit in some of what he says.

Yes, it is difficult to put a plan into action. Plans require things like venture capital to pay for workshops, office fronts, patents, etc. So one could make the argument effectively that having some money to begin with, or knowing someone with money to assist you, or having the right "appearance" in front of a loan officer might be beneficial to acquiring a small business loan. Notice that not one of these methods for acquiring venture capital requires any degree of education whatsoever.

Another thing to consider, Jadam, is that our society needs burger turners. Our society requires trash collectors, store clerks, janitors, teachers, entertainers, CEO's, accountants, politicians, students, bagel bakers, taxi drivers, policemen, market researchers, biologists, tug boat captains, soldiers, servers, hosts, gallery attendants, artists, musicians, professors, parents, children, plastic bag makers, inventors, oil workers, construction workers, sewer workers.... and so on and so on.

When you order a hamburger with no onions and no cheese at the drive through and you're in a hurry and you rush off to where you need to be and discover at the next stop light that your hamburger is a cheeseburger with onions and you can't eat it because you're lactose intolerant and allergic to onions. That's not a result of stupidity. That is a result of a worker who doesn't get paid enough/treated with enough respect to give a ***** about a simple job that they have in order to hopefully make their share of rent, pay the utilities, and that's not to mention the second job they hold down for grocery money, car insurance, and savings for the christmas present they hope to give their child who brings them no end of frustration because the school system doesn't challenge them and they are always getting into trouble. The stupidity was not checking your burger at the window.

When you respect your workers, and when you pay them a living wage, you increase their ability to participate joyfully in life, you create a happier worker. You create a healthier business environment. Look at the McDonald's on the TV who "loves to see you smile," then compare it to the McDonald's that you go to to actually get the burger. This whole thread can be seen as evidence of appearance versus the reality of any given thing.

The reality here is that you are one of those jack*ss kids that the 30K teacher has enough heart to care so much about (perhaps foolishly, more likely selflessly) that she makes a financial sacrifice to try to teach you a real lesson in life. That lesson may even be that knowlege is far more valuable than mere money, and that even if you are the poorest broken down loser on the block, you might have the most real freedom.

BTW, in most places school districting is determined by where you live, not how "smart you are" or how lucky you got filling in dot patterns on the entrance exam. Therefore: more tax money per capita + less student per square mile = higher budget for school and less students per class room with the added benefit of higher pay scale attracting more qualified instructors. In other words: the rich continue to reinvest in themselves, while the poor continue to struggle. More evidence of an uneven field. Also i think that you should check your research on the "glamorous" salaries of college professors. i think you'll find that it is the Bobby Knights and the Lute Olsens, the coaches of the NCAA teams who are the ones making the big bucks, not the professors who do the actual work of making a University serve its purpose.

i don't think that most of the people on this thread are trying to say that stupid, ignorant f*cks should be given millions of dollars and left to run the country (although this seems to happen frequently). i think the point is that our fabric of morality and workforce value has become perverted. The profit margin has become more important than the reality of the workplace and so the worker is squeezed, and exhausted and because the worker is viewed as interchangable at this lower level, not only does it not matter to the employer whether he keeps an employee or not, it no longer matters to the employee to keep his job because he can get another ******* job down the road and the end result is the same. And because this worker is barely making ends meet working two jobs, exhausted, and maybe he never had that 30K a year teacher who took a special interest in him when no one else (not even his parents) did, to say, "You can be more than what you are right now." But even if he wanted to go to school he can't afford it right now, but he's not making any savings... he's being kept in the lower eschelon because he has no assistance to better himself... and here's the kicker: this is how it has to be to keep our civilization working. We can't all be college educated professionals. If we were, we'd be a nation of college educated burger turners. Which wouldn't be so terrible if the environments in which we had to function respected our minds and our need to provide for ourselves. Which it doesn't. It simply does the bare minimum to meet government laws and regulations until you get above the level of "highly interchangeable worker."

Our nation is a complete paradox. Imagine if you learned about us by intercepting the TV transmissions emanating from our planet and formed a complete sociology then decided to visit this fine utopia where all of the women are beautiful and the houses have color coordinated furniture, and people are laughing all the time. Then imagine actually coming to visit. Seeing all of the unhappy faces which are shown all of the things they should be able to have, but can't. If they just worked a little bit harder, maybe then they could, but they're exhausted. They're so weary from following the carrot on the string... and the irony is that it's the person on the other end of the carrot who has all of those benifits. It only takes a few carrots to lead a mob.

As long as the workforce is too tired, too drunk, and convinced that there is nothing they can do about it, the interests of profit will continue to dominate our existence.

[Chisholm]

Originally posted by jadam


..., better public school system??

If your smart, you get into a good public school, if your a ****ing retard you go to a bad one. Thats what they do here in NYC theyve got Stuyvensant, Bronx Science, and Brooklyn Tech for the "smart" ones, i go to Bronx Science :P



Spoken like someone still attached to momma's milk. When you grow up, choose a career and work hard at it a few years, maybe I'll listen to your opinion then.

Not all school districts allow parents to choose which particular school they attend. And some parents can't afford to pick up and move every time a school is reported to be "the best."

Thanks man, you make me want to start teaching again.

signed,

a former certified elementary school teacher

insert edit here---->I guess Jadam's post pissed me off, I shouldn't have reacted, rather I should have read Quanta's respones. Very well said Quanta! Right on!;)

[jadam]

lol, really most of the burger flippers are teens who need money, not adults. and i dont eat at mcdonalds or any of those fast food places thank you very much.

and if you do good in school, you do good in life.

[macmanpro]

Let's be honest $43 million is nice but, is he really happy?:D

[atomwork]

Originally posted by 3777
That is a disgrace.....a 43 million dollar bonus, give me a break. I bust my a$$ for 50k a year, and there are people no better then I am, getting 40 million dollar bonuses. Until this type of stuff ends the world will never change. Teachers make 30k a year, while stupid baseball players make 100 million....... it's all crap.:mad:


By all means. Its his company. he and his partner inventet apple. If he is now a CEO or not. Fact is that with his input the company is where it is. So think again before you speak. If Apple make such much money... he deserves it. I call that "Big business"...not for everyone.

D

[quanta]

If you come to realize that your evidence of the world around you may not be the same as the evidence in the world around another, you will have begun to unchain yourself from ignorance.

Don't they teach you this in school?

Perhaps your teachers don't get paid enough to convey concepts.

[digitalgiant]

Originally posted by danielwilliams


Sorry that your wife decided to go to school and get a degree in a field were she knew that the average salary was low.... but hey that was her choice.... just like everyone else...

Let's not forget that Jobs has worked hard over the last 20 years to get where he is today. I am so sick of hearing people complain about others abilities to acheive their goals...

If you have such a problem with your wife's job choice, let her develop some device that the rest of the world wants and over the next 2 decades build a number of companies that employee hundreds of people, and then only take home $60,000 a year.

Or get a new wife...

God what a bunch of whining losers....
well these loser will teach your kids, thats all i am saying. Yep its easy to disrespect a mans wife online,,,little bitch

[jefhatfield]

steve jobs is worth possibly several hundred million dollars so it really doesn't matter if he gets paid or not

he was at his richest, in today's dollars, when he got sprung from apple the first time with a net worth of at least 125 million dollars in the mid 1980s

he knew at that time according to numerous interviews i read, that he believes he was rich enough and all that was left after having made that type of fortune was to innovate and make great contributions to the high tech field...thus we have the steve jobs of today (hundreds if not thousands of times richer than most of us posting here) with the goal of pushing technology further

bill gates, on the other hand, has mediocre products since money is mostly what he is interested in...and looking at apple vs. microsoft is the easiest way to tell

you can almost feel the passion put into an apple product ...not something i can say about too many microsoft products

but, flame me here, but i think ms' xbox is a great thing and something they really wanted to do right...perhaps gamecube and playstation are better as some gamers tell me, but i am surprised and happy with ms' effort with the xbox

in pc magazine, the benchmarks of their graphics chipset, at the time, beat any pc or mac on the market!

...but i will leave now since this isn't an xbox appreciation thread:p

[SPG]

Just got an Xbox and Halo a couple weeks ago, and my dual 867 has been feeling a little lonely...

Xbox the worst thing to happen to my productivity ever.

[Mudbug]

A few things bothering me about all of this...

First of all – Jadam, as you mature in your years you will learn that the statement should be: If you do WELL in school, you will do WELL in life. Not If you do GOOD in school, etc.

Second of all, as for the last entry about the Xbox and Halo, buying equipment from Microsoft is bad enough, but announcing it in a forum about Apple interests seems a little bass ackwards. I'll stick with my GameCube :D

And Now, double back flip with a twist - ON TOPIC
I think for as much cheese as Apple is bringing in as positive cashflow each quarter (lately at least), then $43M in salary doesn't seem too extravagant. Many CEO's in the US take home their salary as a percentage of the company's income, instead of pulling down a specific $$ amount. I'm not saying they all do it, just some. It makes the CEO take a more personal interest in the doings of the company. I think Steve takes that interest in his company at least the extra mile, if not the extra 6 furlongs.

I'm done now. Continue ranting.

[SPG]

Originally posted by Mudbug
A few things bothering me about all of this...
Second of all, as for the last entry about the Xbox and Halo, buying equipment from Microsoft is bad enough, but announcing it in a forum about Apple interests seems a little bass ackwards. I'll stick with my GameCube :D
...

As much of a zealot as I am, I really liked the Xbox and the games I've played on it, so I bought it despite the lack of love for it's owner.

[Mudbug]

Fair enough for owning one. I can just hope that Microsoft decides that it makes video games REALLY WELL and gets out of the PC software business. I think that might actually make my day. Take that, Dirty Harry. :)

[solvs]

Originally posted by jadam


..., better public school system??

If your smart, you get into a good public school, if your a ****ing retard you go to a bad one. Thats what they do here in NYC theyve got Stuyvensant, Bronx Science, and Brooklyn Tech for the "smart" ones, i go to Bronx Science :P

anyways, UHMM...

Gap between rich and poor?? PLEASE, look at these poor people, most of them are idiotic ****ers. Seriously, if those people would stop for one moment and THINK, what do i need to do to be successful in life? Flipping burgers aint getting you nowhere, what company gives a rats ass that you flipped burgers. You have to study hard to get a good job. You dont just say i want to be rich and you become rich all of a sudden. Lots of these people stayed in school for years studying and learning becoming what they are now. I Plan on studying and doing something with my life. If your wife decides to teach jackass kids and only makes $30,000, its because thats all shes capable of making, if she decided to learn some more she would make more. Look at how much good college professors make! they are teachers, yet they make ****loads more than $30,000 because they are much smarter. and agreed sports players and movie stars get payed way to ****ing much, those ****ing monkeys. Mostly every single movie star is a ****ing retard, who doesnt understand ****.
Why the hell do you guys care what steve makes, i mean seriously the guy worked hard for where he is right now, he went to school, he studied, he came up with an Idea in the 1980s that NONE of you would of though of. I mean tell me, did your wife think about making a computer in the 1980s??? did ANY of you think about it and decide ok, im want to make a computer that will make me rich. DO YOU know how easy it is to say that?? then do you know how hard it is to put those words into action, actually building a computer and running a multibillion dollar corporation? I THINK NOT!

and btw, last i heard, IBM makes 100billion a year so apples 4billion pales in comparison. \

You are an idiot.

Since you mention you are still in public school, I should just assume you are a youngster and cut you some slack for not knowing as much as you think you do. But since you are spouting your mouth off about how smart you are and how stupid poor people are, I'm going to try to set you straight on the subject. Some very stupid people are very lucky and very successful. Do you really think some pretty, but brainless model/actor/musician/spokesperson is smarter than a highly educated teacher at an inner-city school? What you make has nothing to do with how smart you are. Duh.

Just so you know, thanks to a couple of things that happened to me (I won't bore you with the details, some of the things were bad decisions, some of it was bad luck, like getting really sick and the department where I was working losing funding because of the economy), I now find myself unemployed, and struggling. For your information, I grew up in several small towns where there wasn't much of a choice as to where you could go to school. I did very well, got really good grades, lots of extra-curricular stuff, went to college, worked my tail off just to get by for awhile, and happen to have a VERY high IQ.

I will be moving soon to work a day job and continue to be a struggling artist. Luckily (though it wasn't exactly luck) I was smart enough to save some money and do some other things to make money, so I'm not broke. Lets see how smart you are when Mommy and daddy cut you off and life gives you the swift kick in the butt you seriously deserve. If this is how you think life really is, you are gonna get a pretty big reality shock.

This is the part where you tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. So who bought you your computer? Let me guess, you paid for it with your allowance and Christmas/Birthday money, since you're too good for a McJob. Or somebody gave it to you. Lets see how you'd feel if you were one of those poor kids whose parents (if they even have parents) work as hard as they can and still struggle to get by.

And for your information, my Mom worked hard to become a teacher to teach spoiled little brats like you. Welcome to the real world kid. People like you make me sick. Step out of your glass house and get a clue.

[shadowfax]

kudos and a half, solvs

[Mudbug]

solvs, thanks very much. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[jefhatfield]

well said solvs

but realize from his profile that the kid is a minor and has not had the same chance to experience life as the average 29.9 year old macrumors poster

the age i quote is what arn discovered from his database of macrumors posters

i also grew up a sheltered existence where a lot of the kids in the area had parents who started computer companies, agricultural companies, and successful retail/restaurant interests

but as i grew up thru adolescence into middle age, i realized that luck plays the biggest factor in one's success, not education like the kid mentions...he should do research and see that steve jobs and steve wozniak were not college graduates when they became centi-millionaires building apple, nor were paul allen and bill gates of microsoft, nor michael dell of dell computer, nor shawn fanning or napster, nor larry ellison of oracle, nor some of the founders of sun microsystems, etc.

as an interesting sidenote, steve wozniak of that group did go back to college and receive a bachelor's degree and became...gasp...a school teacher

being a liberal, i always used to believe that there was this rock solid correalation between education and income...the world of reality set me straight on that and showed me that was not the case at all

...i also got some experience as an hr person, got a BA degree in the subject from business school, and even have graduate work in mathematics that show things such as the fallacy of believing education has anything to do with income

here's an interesting fact from the "millionaire next door"...what do you think the most common car of the millionaire in america is? rolls royce, mercedes benz, ferrari, bentley?

nope, ford f-150

but these were long, hard lessons i had to learn starting from scratch since i knew a lot less about life growing up in a sheltered area

i once thought it would be cool to be like my gi joe dolls and become a soldier or spy but acutally seeing belfast as a missionary showed me that war is not some game played with plastic dolls

i am a much better person for having gone thru a lot in almost forty years, but that does not mean i was a worthless idiot when i was a teenage child...i just grew up slower than the rest like the poster you are criticizing

so, be nice and cut the child some slack because twenty five years from now, he may think like you and me but, also, have some compassion because he grew up soft like many rich and upper middle class kids do
:)

[bunton]

Some people get lucky or work harder what ever you want to call it but if you were in his place wouldnt you be happy, plus he has done us good but you know what he can't just say oh that customer is on welfare so i have todrop down too you ****ing jiz guzlers eat my ****ing ****

[krube73]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Big Steve taking this bonus. He has taken Apple out of the toilet and has given it a larger presence in the eyes of computer folk like us. I agree with uhlawboi80 that it is ridiculous in today's society that athletes makes that kind of money, while those who are charged with molding the future of this country (teachers), are paid piddly sums.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by krube73
I see absolutely nothing wrong with Big Steve taking this bonus. He has taken Apple out of the toilet and has given it a larger presence in the eyes of computer folk like us. I agree with uhlawboi80 that it is ridiculous in today's society that athletes makes that kind of money, while those who are charged with molding the future of this country (teachers), are paid piddly sums.

steve jobs definitely took us out of the toilet

but some moves he has done since then make me wonder

he is the greatest marketing genius i have ever seen

as a ceo, i am not so sure

but only time will tell

sj is worth hundreds of millions (fortune magazine) and he is still not greedy like mr gates who is worth 60 billion or mr ellison who is worth 47 billion (2002 guinness book of world records)

in essence, sj is small beans compared to those guys, but i much prefer apple to microsoft, thank you:p

[fatalerror101]

Well,
How many of you have created a great company, then get kicked out of it and as it's dying a slow, painfull death save it from sheer destruction. He deserves the Jet hands down. Well, so long as Woz isn't flying the plane that is :)

[beatle888]

Originally posted by fatalerror101
Well,
How many of you have created a great company, then get kicked out of it and as it's dying a slow, painfull death save it from sheer destruction. He deserves the Jet hands down. Well, so long as Woz isn't flying the plane that is :)



Preach it brother :cool:

oh yea, but still, he could cut some expensise
and give the consumer a break JEEZES:eek:

[funkywhat2]

i don't know if anyone said this, fot i was too lazy to read through the whole thread, just skim but:

tis better to have 43 million bonus then 43 million salary and 43 million bonus:)

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by crazy_will
i don't know if anyone said this, fot i was too lazy to read through the whole thread, just skim but:

tis better to have 43 million bonus then 43 million salary and 43 million bonus:)

Sorry - I just don't get it. Unless I'm not supposed to, and then, right on. :confused:

[canadianbacon]

Hi
First time posting here.

I'd like to share my personal experience with work, school, and youth pressures. please forgive my grammatical and spelling errors :) i'm 17. live in canada. growing up in a great neighbourhood, but unfortunately my dad jumped ship when i was 9. tough luck. well my mom struggled and continues to struggle to keep everything together, and as i'm sure alot of you guys can relate to, i haven't had a idealistic childhood... anyways im in my final (senior) year of HS, trying to get into university. I want jamad or whatever to know that i have worked all as much as possible from may to now, when i finished paying off my machine, that i purchased in june. i've worked more than anyone i know, up to 33 hours a week while going to school. what's more is that i am constantly mocked at my high-upper-middle class school for working at mcdonalds. i think this is outrageous!

I get pissed off when i hear kids saying how they need money, but won't work at a restaurant. well they need a reality check. all of my friends basically were born into their fortune, and im the lonely kid on the block who has divorced parents. its hard. working my mcjob, as a previous poster had talked about, i know completely how we feel working service industry jobs.

i might be the only mcdonalds employee to own a mac! the manipulation and constant abuse of workers at my job is driving me insane. i've seen dozens of kids ( my restaurant has 130 workers ) be overworked and start dropping courses. i'm glad for myself that ive made my few grand to buy what keeps me sane ( my beloved mac ) . what makes me feel even ****tier is hearing from some of my peers how their parents are buying them computers and la z boy chairs for their ******** computers that they wont appreciate.

when i think about it, im glad that i dont get bought off by my parents. i know that my dad is a good guy, the relationship just didnt work. bad luck i guess? i am motivated by these obstacles and maybe, just maybe ill be successful because of this. i've never had a TV in my room or anything except a desk lamp and bed. i think kids who are given that type of **** are ****ed in the end because they dont know the true material value of things. another thing about society that kills me: cars. i see KIDS in my neighbour hood driving 20,000 (us dollar) SUV's and even mercedes cars. this makes me sick. their parents even pay the insurance and gas, not to mention everything else in their picture perfect worlds.

my hypothesis is that there are 3 outcomes of adolescence.

1) i think that there are kids like me, who try to get jobs while they are in school, and get sucked in, either by bad decisions, or by a lack of motivation, even bad implementation of values from their parents, who end up working the low end jobs that everyone is trying to avoid.

2) there are kids that are between me and the snobby type. they have had enough problems to understand the real world, and they do not live in a glass house. they'll be somewhat to extremely successful in life, because they have the experience needed to make rational life decisions. i really hope i make it into this category

3) the kids who get pretty much everything, they might lose a grandparent or a distant aunt, but everything is pretty easy. their dads might work a bit too much, but they understand that its what puts the gas in their cars. they'll most likely go onto college and get a bach in some **** they dont really care about and live a quiet life and you'll never hear about them. you'll just see them in hawaii for their annual vacation and in the drive thru because the mommy is just too lazy from doing JACK ***** all day/week/ever ( oo, i vacuumed and grocery shopped today!)

(as a result of not making something of her life, because her husband couldnt wear condoms until she got a real university education)

I hope this doesnt piss anyone off too much. i know that its a HARSH generalization but i dont feel like i have much of a voice except here. i apologize to any and everyone if i offended you.

i would appreciate any feedback or relation to my current situation from the community- thanks!

[maclamb]

Read Nickel and Dimed
by Barbara Ehrenreich - she goes "undercover" to report what it's like to "live" working for $7/hr - and one of her conclusions is that America gets it cheap food, clothing, toys (including our macs) on the backs of the poor (yes, I know apple stuff is made in foreign countries - stay with me here).

I hear Steve is a buddhist - why did he *accept* the 43 million? was it all one lump sum? Maybe he took the money and gave it to charity. How many loaves of bread can yo eat at once? I bet those of you saying it is OK for him to be paid $43Million (which makes your mac stuff be x amount more expensive - the 43mill has to come from *somewhere* ) think that if he can do it yo can do it or get somehting similiar in the future....that has always been the american dream - "I can become rich in the fututre if I work hard enough" - but tomorrow never comes and we work away today and work away tomorrow and never comes the day....And how many millionaires get it all and find they are still unfulfiulled, unhappy and now what? (lots... and not just the ones being sued)

I do agree that salaries are out of whack in this country. I do agree that line people produce and sr. mgt. lives off that- perhaps this is modern slavery - and they are *afraid* of doing real work. Maybe it's the Peter Prinicple?

No, it's not a level playing field.

No, it's not that it's a job that no one else would want - that's just silly - **** I'll be CEO of Apple - Steve doesn't actually *produce* anything - How much did Avie get paid? Or the engineer who invented the first Mac motherboard?
or the guys at PARC that started all this?
And did steve really "save" apple - or did he stop sr. mgt. policies that were killing apple - thereby letting the lower level, creative folk do what they know how to do- do YOU need your manager to get yor work done and produce quality and value for your customers? I don't.

I think the reason it is like this is due to something else:
We get our sense of self from what we have, what we do (ie "produce") and who we think we are or should or want to be. We identify with our mind and thoughts and the products of our mind - when the mind is not who we really are - ask yourself - who is listening to the voice in your head? Who is aware and conscious when you are *not* thinking ( it happens from time to time).

Ask yourself - how much time do you spend thinking about the future ("The next mac will solve all my problems", "I need a G5") or the past ("sos and so did this to me").

How much time do you spend sitting quietly and being present - quieting your mind and listening to your inner self - separate from the noise in your head....Can you just sit and eat a sandwich without listienig to music, playing onn your mac, reading posts here, just SIT and EAT YOUR FOOD. Can you even do that? for mor ethan 2 seconds? (if you can do this at will and *really* understand what I am asking, let me know I want to chat...)

It's not about the money - if Steve and the people at Apple did not get their sense of self from being "Steve and the people of Apple" they would change how money and things are done. Look at SAS and how they treat their folks - and Apple people are treated well - maybe noticebly better than others (at least when I was there). But I think there is a collective insanity (nobody sane would treat each other the way we do, spoil our planet, wage war, etc) and this is a manifestation of it.

And yes, perhaps I am identifying with being a poster on this forum a bit.

At least I'm looking at that.

If this rings for anyone and you want more of this, read Eckhart Toole's Power of Now. Try the audio series - very powerful.
and it will play on the mac.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by maclamb
I hear Steve is a buddhist - why did he *accept* the 43 million? was it all one lump sum? Maybe he took the money and gave it to charity. How many loaves of bread can yo eat at once?

FYI, the "bonus" payment was in the form of his personal Jet. This, AFAIK, is the ONLY bonus payment he has received since coming back to Apple, and so is not payment for one year but for ... what has it been, five years yet?

A compensation packager of ~$10M/year is hardly beans-and-rice level, of course, but also not anywhere near the top of the CEO range. Socialist dogma notwithstanding, Apple is getting astounding leadership from Jobs (witness the rest of the industry and remember that when you look at Apple's competition you are looking at companies run generally by the top 10% of all CEOs and board in overall effectiveness).

Is Jobs doing a good job? I believe so. Does my Mac purchase pay his "salary"? Of course it does, just like buying a Dell makes Michael richer and buying Windows makes Emporer Bill a bit heavier in the bank account. I buy a Mac because, to me, the price is worth it. Without Steve Jobs ... no one knows where the Mac would be or where it would be heading, but certainly the Apple board feels that their continued success is largely due to Jobs' leadership, which is why they awarded him the jet bonus.

[jefhatfield]

the steve jobs of old almost ran a company into the ground and they had to get rid of him...accountants run growing companies, not cult leaders

i think when he came back, he learned a lot of lessons about dollars and cents and had to shed some of his idealism and put on a new coat of compromise and practicality

he may not be the ceo of my choice for apple, but he really has taken much less than most ceos of other companies of the same size or in the same industry so it's not about greed with sj

and the company may not be doing well, but apple is still alive

if someone else came to lead apple at it's darkest hour in 1997, i don't know if they could have rallied the troops like sj

making a pact with ms was not popular at the time, and neither was letting bg leverage the situation with 150 million of liquid cash, but sj did what he needed to to save apple and because of those unpopular moves, i am typing on this ibook

in 2002, i have to say thank you steve jobs...even though you were a bad leader the first time around

thank you ibm...even though you are the real 800 pound gorilla

and thank you bill gates...for the money and helping with your mac related ms software...even if it really was for $$$ and not from the goodness of your heart

politics...and companies on the ropes...make strange bedfellows indeed;) :p

[maclamb]

I think steve has vision and it's hard to put a price on vision and I agree with the post about thank you steve and bg or I wouldn't be using my pb - though I *am* using navigator not ie ;-)

I remember reading some books on the history of the mac that the mac was built *in spite* of steve at the time - he was managinng the lisa and a hardware guy created the motherboard fo rth emac on his own and Steve "co-opted" (stole?) the project for his own.
At applem when I was ther ein early 90's I was told the mac was built in spite of steve.

anyway - good comments...

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by maclamb
- though I *am* using navigator not ie ;-)


on a user level, i like netscape navigator over internet explorer

on a personal note, before i was a techie, i was a suit...ie) vp of san jose dot.com... but a "founder" of netscape gave my ceo some bad advice (which sounded good at the time) and we got wiped out

anyway, we would have probably been wiped out anyway

how optomistic we all were just a few years ago!!!

:p ;) :D

[DakotaGuy]

Canadian Bacon, there is nothing wrong with working at MickyD's to make some money. I have no idea who in the world thinks it is a bad thing for a kid to work for what he wants. I am 26 and I grew up on a farm in South Dakota. I worked my ass off on that farm for nothing but room and board when I was young, but I loved it and loved my parents. Good people. Out in South Dakota, we are not into that "high society" life here, people live and let live.

My roomie back in college had weathly parents, but he is and will always be my best friend. His parents made him take student loans like I did and bought us some used furniture for the apartment. He did not talk about money and told me always money doesn't mean crap if you don't have any friends or love in your life.

I became a teacher not for the money, heck in South Dakota you start around $23K, but to try and make a difference in kids lives. I live in a small farming community here, not a lot of money, but good kids. I see the high school kids working at the quicky mart on Saturdays for some money around here. I rent a little house for $200 a month, have my friends, family, a new car, and my Macs. Life is not so bad. So Canadian Bacon, stick in there and keep up the good work. Life is not about money...when I walk in the mall, I have no idea what people are rich and what people are just middle or lower class, they are just people.

[quanta]

i find it very comforting to see that there are a number of minds who are aware of our social/individual dilemmas. Certainly we all bear the burden of our own particular sanity, and the ways in which we satisfy our desires.

Much applause to canadian bacon's work ethic and sense of self-satisfaction for having acquired a means to his/her momentary satisfaction (or possibly continued distraction... but i digress). i also wouldn't spend too much time worrying about other people's attitudes. It does get frustrating and i often feel very alone in my opinions and frustrations with society, but then i realize that despite my criticisms, i am still a participant and contributor to many of the things of which i am most critical. That's when i think that if there were only somewhere i could go or someone i could meet who could free me from this vicious cycle....

But like maclamb said, the only person you know is yourself, and ultimately that is the only person who you have any control over.

Sitting, and simply being is something which fascinates me. i have for many years wondered at the simplicity of a single flower in a field, and the sweet silence that short life is. Juxtaposed against the screaming, demanding, reality of my life, i rarely am sitting silently and being. When i am creating art, that is my time of silence. In those moments, it no longer matters to me whether i am listening to music or a movie is playing, or a dog is barking, or there is nothing going on at all because my focus has detached myself from that inner voice which is constantly carving prose from the remnants of events which have just manifested and are quickly falling into the wayside of memory. Instead i am directly in relation to the activity at hand.

i'm pretty sure that this has nothing to do with Steve Jobs, but there it is.

thanks.

ps. i'd enjoy some correspondence with you, maclamb.

[Mudbug]

I think everyone should know that I came across a question about this very thing last weekend while playing the 20th anniversary edition of Trivial Pursuit.

Just so you know, I got it right. :D

[BenderBot1138]

I'm not one for big salaries, but our exalted leader has earned this and more. I for one, would like to add my Gratitude for his leadership in a company that make the most excellent computer products and software I use.:cool:

[rhett121]

I remember reading in a Time magazine about the highest paid people in America (this was in the early 90's so money wasn't as big then) and the CEO of HEINZ (the ketchup company) made 72 million dollars a year!! $72,000,000.00 for selling ketchup!! That was a lot of money back then considering that is pretty close to what Steve paid for Pixar (reletavely speaking of course, he did pay about $110M).
Anyway, I agree that this country is really screwed up financially and socially. Sports figures are WAY over-payed and companies are way over valued.
Look at Microsoft, it is the most valuable company in the world (according to the Stock Exchange) and all they really make is software and a game console now. Look at who they took the number 1 spot from, General Electric! Think of all the things that GE makes, from light bulbs to refridgerators and so on. If you were to liquidate both companies what do you think the value would be. A bunch of worthless CD's and paper or warehouses and factories full of appliances?
I think that Steve has done a great job at Apple, and I think his bonus, while maybe excessive to us, is really quite modest in the business comunity.
You also have to consider the companies who are PRIVATE and do not disclose any finances, I worked for one and you would cry at the salaries they pay some of these idiots!

[ninjachild]

reading some of the idiotic and uninformed replies from people who have obviously never dropped the silver spoon out of there mouth makes me sad to share air with some of the people in america.

america's ceo's are paid on average twice (including bonuses and compensation packages) what the average CEO is paid in countries such as germany and japan.

if steve jobs is so the people's hero, than why didn't he spring for the jet out of his own pockets?

its all business people.

[wdlove]

Business is business. There should be a more equitable way to compensate CEO's to narrow the gap with employees, its the employees that do the WK. CEO's add vision!

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by ninjachild
reading some of the idiotic and uninformed replies from people who have obviously never dropped the silver spoon out of there mouth makes me sad to share air with some of the people in america.

america's ceo's are paid on average twice (including bonuses and compensation packages) what the average CEO is paid in countries such as germany and japan.

if steve jobs is so the people's hero, than why didn't he spring for the jet out of his own pockets?

its all business people.

say what you want about jobs...he is a jerk and hot tempered and often a bad business person while being a marketing genius among other things...woz says sometimes sj is not a good listener

but one thing sj isn't is greedy...besides his one dollar a year salary, he does not plan to use the jet after he leaves apple...that will be for the next apple ceo...of course, we know sj will still be on the apple inc board and get to go for a ride from time to time:p

bill gates says he will give away 95 percent of his fortune, but i think sj will be the one to actually do it without ever once bragging about it

in a recent interview i read with sj, he mentioned his net worth after being fired from apple was over 100 million...an amount he thinks is more than enough for the rest of his life

bg, on the other hand, wants nothing short of the world...and maybe when he realizes he won't live forever, bg will give it all back after he has marginalized apple, sun, digital research...and destroyed netscape and many others...people worked for all those companies that either went under or had to downsize becuase of bg's aggressiveness

[canadianbacon]

you know i honestly thing SJ is going to let other big people at apple, i.e. phil schiller, to use the plane when they all go to do business. he isnt some rich chump who sits in his plane alone and laughs at the proletariets all day.

[Huked on Fonick]

Jadam i hate to dissapoint you but you said that people who do good in school do good in life.... this isent true there broham... you could be a genious and get all A's but if u cant get people to listen to you wont get **** done.... Iread an article recently that said that most of the highest paid people in america got average grades in highschool... B, C even some Dsssss why...... GOOD PEOPLE SKILLS

ITS ALL ABOUT THE PEOPLE skills not how good you do in school...........:)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
Jadam i hate to dissapoint you but you said that people who do good in school do good in life.... this isent true there broham... you could be a genious and get all A's but if u cant get people to listen to you wont get **** done.... Iread an article recently that said that most of the highest paid people in america got average grades in highschool... B, C even some Dsssss why...... GOOD PEOPLE SKILLS

ITS ALL ABOUT THE PEOPLE skills not how good you do in school...........:)

oh yah bill gate have highest peepel skills in world. absorutery. peoper don't need to be interrigant at all.

i fink that you shourd say that you dun need gud grads in hi skool to be a genius.

being well liked is always helpful, but inspiration, i think, makes success. i could also argue that intelligence is a function of how academically "inspired" you are. i can't think of anyone i've ever met who was "dumb" who actually cared. they had no inspiration.

[Chisholm]

Originally posted by Shadowfax


oh yah bill gate have highest peepel skills in world. absorutery. peoper don't need to be interrigant at all.

i fink that you shourd say that you dun need gud grads in hi skool to be a genius.

being well liked is always helpful, but inspiration, i think, makes success. i could also argue that intelligence is a function of how academically "inspired" you are. i can't think of anyone i've ever met who was "dumb" who actually cared. they had no inspiration.

Yeah, look at Forest Gump!:p

[alset]

Originally posted by 3777
That is a disgrace.....a 43 million dollar bonus, give me a break. I bust my a$$ for 50k a year, and there are people no better then I am, getting 40 million dollar bonuses. Until this type of stuff ends the world will never change. Teachers make 30k a year, while stupid baseball players make 100 million....... it's all crap.:mad:

Quit complaining. He saved your computer company. And if you think other people could have brought more skill to the table, you're right. However, only Steve had what it took to restore faith in the company so quickly: HIS NAME.

There are some things you just have to accept.

Dan

[jadam]

Originally posted by solvs
\

You are an idiot.

Since you mention you are still in public school, I should just assume you are a youngster and cut you some slack for not knowing as much as you think you do. But since you are spouting your mouth off about how smart you are and how stupid poor people are, I'm going to try to set you straight on the subject. Some very stupid people are very lucky and very successful. Do you really think some pretty, but brainless model/actor/musician/spokesperson is smarter than a highly educated teacher at an inner-city school? What you make has nothing to do with how smart you are. Duh.

Just so you know, thanks to a couple of things that happened to me (I won't bore you with the details, some of the things were bad decisions, some of it was bad luck, like getting really sick and the department where I was working losing funding because of the economy), I now find myself unemployed, and struggling. For your information, I grew up in several small towns where there wasn't much of a choice as to where you could go to school. I did very well, got really good grades, lots of extra-curricular stuff, went to college, worked my tail off just to get by for awhile, and happen to have a VERY high IQ.

I will be moving soon to work a day job and continue to be a struggling artist. Luckily (though it wasn't exactly luck) I was smart enough to save some money and do some other things to make money, so I'm not broke. Lets see how smart you are when Mommy and daddy cut you off and life gives you the swift kick in the butt you seriously deserve. If this is how you think life really is, you are gonna get a pretty big reality shock.

This is the part where you tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. So who bought you your computer? Let me guess, you paid for it with your allowance and Christmas/Birthday money, since you're too good for a McJob. Or somebody gave it to you. Lets see how you'd feel if you were one of those poor kids whose parents (if they even have parents) work as hard as they can and still struggle to get by.

And for your information, my Mom worked hard to become a teacher to teach spoiled little brats like you. Welcome to the real world kid. People like you make me sick. Step out of your glass house and get a clue.

And FYI, my parents grew up in concentration camps in Albania. My Parents got divorced when i was 5. My Grandparents clean buildings for a living, you think thats a great job? no. My mom struggled to get some where in america. She came here knowing no english and now has a decent job making $60k a year(speaks perfect english BTW). My stepdad came from Bakuu(err cant spell azerbajin(something like taht......)) He took a test there. The best students were sent to the United States for schooling, and thats where he ended up. Up until 2 years ago he only made $50k a year, then he got a job at merrly lynch and now makes around $140k a year. And dont worry, as soon as high school is over my stepdad and mom plan on giving me NO financial aid and kicking me out of the house.

[wdlove]

Immigrants that we desparately need more of, great family work ethic.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
Jadam i hate to dissapoint you but you said that people who do good in school do good in life.... this isent true there broham... you could be a genious and get all A's but if u cant get people to listen to you wont get **** done.... Iread an article recently that said that most of the highest paid people in america got average grades in highschool... B, C even some Dsssss why...... GOOD PEOPLE SKILLS

ITS ALL ABOUT THE PEOPLE skills not how good you do in school...........:)

very true

[Phil Of Mac]

If you're intelligent, that helps you get a good job and have a good life.

If you have good people skills, that helps too.

If you have a good education, that helps too. Especially if you're intelligent.

Why do CEO's get paid so much? Supply and demand. What board of directors WOULDN'T want to hire "just some guy" and pay him $50k a year to be CEO? Only problem is, "just some guy" isn't going to be a good CEO. There are only a few hundred, maybe a few thousand Americans with the necessary skills, education, and knowledge to be a CEO. And even some of them are bad at it (Spindler, Amelio).

There's nothing wrong with making a fortune from honest, voluntary deals, trading your skilled services for pay. If you have the skill to teach and teach well, you deserve your salary. If you have the skill to create and sell inventions that improve everyone's life, and you create and sell the inventions, is it not fair that in return for improving the lives of the schoolteachers, burger-jockeys, and lawnmower operators of the world, that your life be improved? When people of the greatest ability, such as Steve Jobs, who are the most essential people in our society because they are so rare and irreplacable, when those people are told that they don't deserve the fruits of their labor--then perhaps you will learn that without the geniuses you have condemned, your society will make no further progress, and will eventually collapse.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
If you're intelligent, that helps you get a good job and have a good life.

If you have good people skills, that helps too.

If you have a good education, that helps too. Especially if you're intelligent.

Why do CEO's get paid so much? Supply and demand. What board of directors WOULDN'T want to hire "just some guy" and pay him $50k a year to be CEO? Only problem is, "just some guy" isn't going to be a good CEO. There are only a few hundred, maybe a few thousand Americans with the necessary skills, education, and knowledge to be a CEO. And even some of them are bad at it (Spindler, Amelio).

There's nothing wrong with making a fortune from honest, voluntary deals, trading your skilled services for pay. If you have the skill to teach and teach well, you deserve your salary. If you have the skill to create and sell inventions that improve everyone's life, and you create and sell the inventions, is it not fair that in return for improving the lives of the schoolteachers, burger-jockeys, and lawnmower operators of the world, that your life be improved? When people of the greatest ability, such as Steve Jobs, who are the most essential people in our society because they are so rare and irreplacable, when those people are told that they don't deserve the fruits of their labor--then perhaps you will learn that without the geniuses you have condemned, your society will make no further progress, and will eventually collapse.

and if you have no ethics, drop out of college, you steal from apple, among others, destroy netscape, and become the richest man on earth...:D

[lesreaper]

The reason Steve gets paid so much is because when he first started Apple, back when he wasn't rich and he was just a kid with a dream, he sold his VW, everything he had, and burned his bridges to generate the start-up capital. He risked his entire future and put his balls to the wind in the face of the ridicule of his friends, family, and the rest of the business world because he believed he could win. He had a vision, a dream, and he was willing to take the risk that all of you whiners will not take. That is why people are stuck working $7 - $10 an hour and have no future. It is because they have neither the courage nor stamina to do what Steve and those like him did. I've been in the houses of hundreds, if not thousands, of people across this country and I've found that most people are not willing to take that risk. That is why they will stay impoverished, enslaved, or whatever you would like to call it. They are content, fearful of risk, concerned what everyone says of them, and Steve was not. He is merely reaping the seeds he sowed over twenty years ago in a little business venture called Apple, and he deserves every penny. So stop whining and go do something, and if you've got what it takes, you may earn what he does, too.

[Chisholm]

Originally posted by lesreaper
That is why people are stuck working $7 - $10 an hour and have no future. It is because they have neither the courage nor stamina to do what Steve and those like him did. I've been in the houses of hundreds, if not thousands, of people across this country and I've found that most people are not willing to take that risk. That is why they will stay impoverished, enslaved, or whatever you would like to call it.

Let me guess, you were clearing their crap clogged toliets when this epiphany sprang out from the sewer and smacked you in the brain.:rolleyes: Hhhmmm. And so now you're the CEO of some company that does something? Isn't it possible some people only work to earn enough money to do the things that make them happy?

geezezzezeze!

cheers!
John

and sorry about the sarcasm, it was just too easy.

[Phil Of Mac]

It's amazing how people complain about being "poor" in America when "poor" means "cable TV but no SUV".

[alset]

To those who still complain about Steve's pay, I wish to remind you that a person/item/service is worth only what the buyer is willing to pay. Enough people are willing to stand behind Steve to justify his pay. If you don't like it, by a machine running Windows. After all, Bill Gates made only a fraction of the cash the Steve made (sarcasm).

If you really have issues with people being over payed, take it up with your congressmen. They get to vote on their own salaries. They don't get a bonus because tax payers are glad they saved your computer manufacturer.

Dan

[GigaWire]

Education helps, but the big money is simply luck, girls.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by GigaWire
Education helps, but the big money is simply luck, girls.

Luck? Sometimes. Skill? Usually.

[cr2sh]

The only people who make big money on luck are lottery winners. The fact is people with education have worked hard for that education - that's just their nature. They're the same people who work hard, try different ideas, take risks, and come up with good ideas that they work hard to succeed with. Those people make the really big money, because they worked hard. The people who sit on their ass and don't go to school, don't work hard, don't do anything and then look at people who do and say 'you were just lucky.' Those people are disgusting to me.

Was it LUCK that funded the great idea? Was it luck that improved the design, or payed for the patent, or payed for the legal help? Was it luck that the person spends 5 years of his life studying circuitry and code and working the night shift - while you were not in school? Does spending 36hours awake, focusing on school and design, and trying to get it right and never wanting to stop - does that equal luck?

Was that luck? Or was it someone blaming their own ignorance on their own laziness.

[wdlove]

People make their own luck, as said above, by studying hard in school, & working long hours at their job. Our great innovators don't ask for things to be given to them. Too many just cry about their situation, when they could be working to be more successful!

[skunk]

A little reality, please, guys! You can be as hard-working as you want and still get shafted. Luck has a lot to do with it, so does being a white male, so does not living in Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nicaragua, Iraq, Chile, Colombia, Cambodia, Palestine, Timor, or anywhere else that gets screwed over or worse... (mostly by successful white males)

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by skunk
A little reality, please, guys! You can be as hard-working as you want and still get shafted. Luck has a lot to do with it, so does being a white male, so does not living in Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nicaragua, Iraq, Chile, Colombia, Cambodia, Palestine, Timor, or anywhere else that gets screwed over or worse... (mostly by successful white males)

That's completely true, opportunity *along* with hard work make a person that successful. But just living in America doesn't a rich man make, as so many foreigners think, and people like Jobs are the direct result of a capitalist society-- The only way to avoid it is communism, which we've seen fail many times. Face it, we can all be as jealous as we want, but if *we* were the ones looking at making this much money, 99% of us would jump at the chance.

:)
pnw

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by skunk
A little reality, please, guys! You can be as hard-working as you want and still get shafted. Luck has a lot to do with it, so does being a white male, so does not living in Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nicaragua, Iraq, Chile, Colombia, Cambodia, Palestine, Timor, or anywhere else that gets screwed over or worse... (mostly by successful white males)

extremely well said

i think some of the other posters would do well if they did peace corps or missionary work like i did just to wake up and see that the whole world is not just like the usa

[PretendPCuser]

...it's bad karma to bad-mouth peeps who make a killing like that. They made it by either being really good at what they do, being at the right place at the right time or knowing the right people or some combo. The thing is, if you aspire to be that way yourself, if you put negatives on those people, then you are putting negative spin on your own potential. You will forever be sabotaging (sp?) yourself (unknowingly).

So, Steve makes his money cause he's good at what he does. He may have saved Apple, he made Pixar into the company it is today...good for him. He deserves what he gets.

Baseball players chose to be good at what they are good at, doctors, lawyers as well. Actors and actresses too. What about politicians? Aren't they paid a lot of money? Good for them. Let them all make good money.

I may not make that much, i may never make that much, so what? I'm happy with my life, not having to sacrifice my health for being a professional athlete, i'm happy not sacrificing all my spare time that i need a jet to fly everywhere, or compromising my morals to be a politician. Until you are ready to make some serious sacrifice to make that type of serious money, ask yourself if having it would really make things that much better for you. Will you sacrifice the possibility of never walking again (football player?), would you sacrifice being able to hang out with the people you like/love for more than 2 hours at a time on alternate wednesdays of even months? (High powered exec). In short, these people have their own realities to worry about, things that they can lose that money can't buy...to quote sublime,

"Life is too short, so love the one ya got, cause you might get run over or you might get shot"

In short, don't bitch. Make something happen for yourself.

[skunk]

You could always try making something happen for someone else.....

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by skunk
A little reality, please, guys! You can be as hard-working as you want and still get shafted. Luck has a lot to do with it, so does being a white male, so does not living in Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nicaragua, Iraq, Chile, Colombia, Cambodia, Palestine, Timor, or anywhere else that gets screwed over or worse... (mostly by successful white males)

Yeah, it is hard to become rich in those countries. That's because they have nothing near a capitalist economic system. And if you add Cuba, North Korea, and China, those are three countries where the only way to get rich is by political influence, not by actual merit.

So, yes. If you're not suffering under a totalitarian dictatorship, you can't get rich no matter what. This is part of why tyranny is a bad thing.

And you can only get rich if you're a white male? Ironically, Jesse Jackson has gotten rich by telling that to black people and for other seedy dealings...

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by paulwhannel

But just living in America doesn't a rich man make, as so many foreigners think, and people like Jobs are the direct result of a capitalist society.


Yes, how terrible it is to have a political system that produces visionaries and geniuses...

[skunk]

And George W Bush! You must be SO proud!

[Phil Of Mac]

I wouldn't be so proud of Tony Blair. At least we still have fair trials in this country, and not kangaroo courts where you can try someone as many times as you want until you find a jury that'll convict...

[skunk]

Who's proud of Tony Blair? (But at least he was elected....)

[Phil Of Mac]

I'm just saying, you're in the glass house here. I don't go around criticizing other people's political leaders until they start on mine. I honestly don't really like anyone's political leaders. But I see no reason to take a relatively sane conversation about the meritocracy of a market economy, and turn it into an argument as to who has the worst political leaders.

Steve Jobs deserves every penny he's paid, and more. If Steve Jobs made 100 million a year, I would have nothing to say beyond, "Good for him."

[skunk]

Personally I think they are both a disgrace to their respective countries, and the "meritocracies" they lead are responsible for state-sponsored mass-murder on a horrific scale. And I don't think anybody can be truly said to "earn" a hundred million a year. I don't hold it against Jobs, but I find a system which loads the taxes and benefits of corporations to enable such obscene payments to be grossly inequitable.
Anyway, it's 2.30am here, so I'm packing it in. Plenty of time to come up with a well-crafted rejoinder....;) :o

[jefhatfield]

apple...one dollar a year for sj

why?

ever heard of pixar?;)

[designpro]

Originally posted by 3777
That is a disgrace.....a 43 million dollar bonus, give me a break. I bust my a$$ for 50k a year, and there are people no better then I am, getting 40 million dollar bonuses. Until this type of stuff ends the world will never change. Teachers make 30k a year, while stupid baseball players make 100 million....... it's all crap.:mad:

dude, you make me sick!!!! why dont you stop busting your butt off for 50k/year and start out your own company. see how "easy" that is? if you were better than any on these 40mil+ bonus-guys, shouldnt we be seeing your names in the news? I agree that teachers are getting paid too low, or shall i say "not getting paid" adequately. but it goes with territory, i mean, how much does the owners of sport teams make every year? what players getting paid is no concern of ours, they only "profit sharing" from the owners, so complaint to the owners and stop calling the players stupid, if they were, they're not getting that much money werent they?
im in the same bracket as yours, but guess what? concentrate on what you have and careless about other stuff. if only you could look down to see how fortunate you are and not looking up and be mad about it.
happy holidays.

[skunk]

Originally posted by designpro


dude, you make me sick!!!!

Unfortunately, "dude", it's your kind of attitude to such outrageous inequality which makes the good ol' US of A such an easy place to hate for the rest of the world. Or hadn't you noticed?

Happy holidays to you too.....:mad:

[Phil Of Mac]

You may learn some day that no political system can make a whining idiot and a visionary genius equal.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by designpro

if only you could look down to see how fortunate you are and not looking up and be mad about it.
happy holidays.

sometimes many people i see in this country lose sight of how good they have it compared to a war zone area or third world area

that being said, america is not perfect and both political parties in washington, however corrupt, do make sincere changes for the sake of the american people

and getting re-elected is good, too;) :D :p

[skunk]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
You may learn some day that no political system can make a whining idiot and a visionary genius equal.

Oh, there are plenty which can do that :rolleyes:

[Phil Of Mac]

Well, yes. Destroying and despising the visionary genius has always been the norm of society. If this gets too bad, the visionary geniuses give up, so you do, in fact, achieve equality. Equal poverty, that is.

Isn't that what you're doing?

[skunk]

You have not the first idea what I'm doing, or what you are talking about.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by skunk
You have not the first idea what I'm doing, or what you are talking about.

are you touching yourself...ok, i would rather not guess:p :p :p

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by skunk
You have not the first idea what I'm doing, or what you are talking about.

You're whining about "economic inequality". Well, I got news for you. To eliminate economic inequality would mean destroying the productive minds who create wealth, because why risk time, money, and everything else you value on a new idea, invention, or business if you'll only end up making as much as a janitor? No one will take the RISKS involved to CREATE wealth, so humanity will be reduced to a race of unthinking menial laborers. Eventually, the economy will collapse in a very real way, the type that involves starvation and the utter disappearance of key industries. Humanity would be ultimately reduced to subsistence farming.

Steve Jobs is a billionaire because he created an invention and sold it in such a way to make all of our lives better. He deserves every cent of his fortune because of that. Why whine that you are financially unequal to him? You and Steve Jobs are financially unequal because YOUR ABILITIES AND THE VALUE OF WHAT YOU HAVE TO OFFER IS UNEQUAL!

Don't get me wrong. I'm unequal to Steve Jobs too. But his fortune doesn't threaten me, it inspires me. I know that if I want to be equal to Steve Jobs, I better improve myself, because destroying Steve Jobs isn't going to make me any better. Even if I am totally unable to ever reach Steve Jobs in ability, or in fortune, my lack of greatness is not Steve Jobs' fault.

Yours isn't either.

[skunk]

Sorry, I'm in the wrong thread. I thought there were some grown-ups here.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by skunk
Sorry, I'm in the wrong thread. I thought there were some grown-ups here.

Shall I take your ad hominem as a tacit concession that you can't refute my arguments?

[benixau]

no he is saying that you are a little girl. He is also say7ing that he is less than that.
I understand how he feels Phil of Mac.

skunk, how about you say "sorry, you are right". Now you try it isnt that hard ?

[Phil Of Mac]

Ya know what, this thread had the perfect ending until you came along a few months later and screwed it all up :)

[vanillamike]

lame

[kansaigaijin]

The reason Steve gets paid so much is because when he first started Apple, back when he wasn't rich and he was just a kid with a dream, he sold his VW, everything he had, and burned his bridges to generate the start-up capital. He risked his entire future and put his balls to the wind in the face of the ridicule of his friends, family, and the rest of the business world because he believed he could win. He had a vision, a dream, and he was willi

no he sold out when he got chucked out by the Pepsi guy wayyyyyyyy long time ago. He went away and made another fortune in other business. So he is not reaping what he sowed a long time ago. Now he is getting paid for what he has to do everyday, reinvent and bet the company, somebody elses company. Check the SEC or stock ticker, Apple is owned by investment funds and insurance companies. The want a return, or at least some stockholder value, not the huge losses Apple was suffering back in the early/mid nineties.
Unlike a salary, which gets paid whether the company does well or not, he gets a bonus. So if the company does not do as well as the directers think it should, or make targets that they agreed on, he gets nothing!
Try that at your job. The kids all get A's on the benchmark exam, or you get nothing ( I don't think it should work that way) or we get no complaints about the burgers today, no bonus!

Obviously he can afford to take the risk, he has something to fall back on.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
no he sold out when he got chucked out by the Pepsi guy wayyyyyyyy long time ago. He went away and made another fortune in other business. So he is not reaping what he sowed a long time ago. Now he is getting paid for what he has to do everyday, reinvent and bet the company, somebody elses company. Check the SEC or stock ticker, Apple is owned by investment funds and insurance companies. The want a return, or at least some stockholder value, not the huge losses Apple was suffering back in the early/mid nineties.
Unlike a salary, which gets paid whether the company does well or not, he gets a bonus. So if the company does not do as well as the directers think it should, or make targets that they agreed on, he gets nothing!
Try that at your job. The kids all get A's on the benchmark exam, or you get nothing ( I don't think it should work that way) or we get no complaints about the burgers today, no bonus!

Obviously he can afford to take the rest, he has something to fall back on.

sj is worth 1.7 billion and he does not get a bonus from apple...he does not need it in his thinking

pixar is what makes sj a billionaire

apple is his hobby, but it made him a little over 100 million, which is still a tidy sum

[rt_brained]

Originally posted by 3777
That is a disgrace.....a 43 million dollar bonus, give me a break. I bust my a$$ for 50k a year, and there are people no better then I am, getting 40 million dollar bonuses. Until this type of stuff ends the world will never change. Teachers make 30k a year, while stupid baseball players make 100 million....... it's all crap.:mad:
Hey, 3777...I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your boss just called. They were going to give you a big ol' fat raise on Monday. $2 million a year. But they just heard about your comment about all the people who make more money than they deserve. So they rescinded the offer and decided to give it to someone who really needs it right now...the receptionist.

Way to go.

[scem0]

Originally posted by rt_brained
Hey, 3777...I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your boss just called. They were going to give you a big ol' fat raise on Monday. $2 million a year. But they just heard about your comment about all the people who make more money than they deserve. So they rescinded the offer and decided to give it to someone who really needs it right now...the receptionist.

Way to go.
lol. I certainly wouldn't complain if I got a 2 mil raise. Then again
I don't have a job, so that would be hard. BUt I do agree with
3777, money needs to be spread out more. But I plan on being
filthy rich one day, so I really don't care. :p ;) :D

[kansaigaijin]

ya that's what I said, he made another fortune AFTER leaving Apple. It was in response to all those posters who assume he has always been there, for all the 20+ years of Apple history, and has always owned Apple.

He does get a bonus, that is what this whole thread is about.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin


He does get a bonus, that is what this whole thread is about.

wow, the book i just read about apple did not mention anything about that except for the one dollar a year he makes at apple

if he makes that kind of apple bonus, it's certainly a well kept secret in the silicon valley...i work in high tech south of san jose and i know a lot of the people in the mac community and the $1 dollar a year amount is very well known, but in and around infinite loop, nobody has mentioned anything about an APPLE bonus for sj

but he makes oodles in bonuses from pixar and a hefty salary there (pixar makes tons of money)

i emailed the author of the ariticle to see where sj gets his bonuses from

sj owns pixar and it still could be that, but if sj gets a bonus from apple, he still certainly deserves it...he saved apple inc in 1997 with the deal with ms (though the move was not instantly popular at the time ;)

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
ya that's what I said, he made another fortune AFTER leaving Apple. It was in response to all those posters who assume he has always been there, for all the 20+ years of Apple history, and has always owned Apple.



i hear you

i am an engineer in the computer field and i often hear my fellow techies (pc side) get steve jobs mixed up with steve wozniak

certain financial magazines, not techie mags, sometimes erroneously credit steve jobs as the one who invented the apple computer

outside of our little mac haven, the facts about apple inc, the superior platform we know and love, and the difference between the two steves...are not general household knowledge

and now there is a "steve" who is the ceo of microsoft

[Phil Of Mac]

Guess what made Steve wealthy enough to buy Pixar? The fortune he made at Apple. Which he deserved.

Once he bought Pixar, what made him as wealthy as he is today? The fortune he made at Pixar, turning it into one of the best computer animation production houses in the industry. Steve is a very skilled businessman, and it's that management and leadership that decides whether or not a company is successful or not. I'm sure we all know some companies who have either died or come close to death despite having the best talent in the world, because they had bad management. Apple was in that boat until Jobs (though arguably, Amelio did bring it closer to profitability).

Without someone like Jobs, the rest of us would be missing out on the technology we enjoy today. He deserves his fortune. Yes, he has more money than you do. He probably has more money than all of us put together. He's a genius. He's an genius who makes decisions no one agrees with until time proves him right (the iMac, ending Mac OS licensing, the deal with Microsoft in 97). The reason he has a lot more money than we do is that he has a lot more talent than we do, and he's willing to use it. And when Steve Jobs uses his talent, we all win. Steve Jobs makes more money, we get cool stuff. The only way Steve's wealth in any way affects my wealth is when I choose to buy a ticket to a Pixar movie or a Macintosh computer. And in those cases, it's a fair trade--my money for Steve's product. (Steve's employees, of course, also get paid--in Apple's case, more than he does--in Pixar's case, I don't know, but I suspect that increasing Pixar's value makes him wealthier than indirectly paying his salary. Again, the employees are making a fair trade--their talented work for their pay.)

I always find it funny when people condemn capitalism, and then get rich. Capitalism provides the opportunity to get rich, and you're not hurting anyone else in the process, because you can only get their money by fair trade and with their consent--which they only give if it's in their best interest! (Obviously, the US does not have a pure capitalist system, which is why I despise such things as corporate welfare and the current tax system). Steve took a risk in the 70's and 80's, and that risk made him wealthy enough to buy Pixar, which was secure enough that he can hold onto his wealth and let it increase, because Pixar's a good investment.

I know I've rambled on awhile, but basically, Steve has more money than me, that doesn't hurt me and it comes as a direct result of things he did that actually help me, and he deserves every cent he has.

[Mr. G4]

Originally posted by danielwilliams
..., stop producing children that they can't afford to raise, and start taking better care of themselves physically.

Until that time, those who do take responsibility for themselves and are successful should be praised as heros....

Look at Europe where the average children per family is something like 1.something...they will need to import million of foreign workers to work legally and pay their taxes to pay all those old Europeans that didn't make any children to fill the workforce and pay for their retirement.

[Phil Of Mac]

Totally. If you can afford to raise them, having more kids is great. There's no food shortage, the only reason people starve is that they live under tin-horn dictators who steal the food to feed their armies. In the Western world, bigger families are just fine.