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RadiusProject
Jul 21, 2011, 06:44 PM
Hello Community,

As a long standing PC user long unable to afford an Apple anything, I have been gifted a gutted 2.5 DC PowerMac.

I use computers mainly for audio, mixing large sessions in Pro Tools and composing in Ableton Live on PC. For about 6 years now I have known I need to buy an Apple computer to respectably continue in my profession, but have had a budget of around 150 which as we all know, would buy me very little indeed even in the used market. I am also a big fan of gaming but am aware that PowerMac is not really the platform for running today's games anywhere near recommended requirements, so am willing to compromise on that.

My PowerMac is has no RAM or HDD at all- I'm aware that only very slow RAM is available for these systems and therefore I may need a lot to try and compensate. I have a screen/keyboard/mouse etc that I plan to use from my old PC as again, my budget is around 150 and I need to keep costs low.


If I had it my way, yes of course, I would get a brand new i7 intel Mac Pro with a Cinema Display. Hell, I'd love a new Mac Mini (yes yes, I know the debate re: powermac and mac mini, thats not what Im asking). But the truth is life isn't like that, I have this older PPC non-intel guy, and I'm hugely grateful to have that! The processor in this trumps my current windows machine by 800mHz and can actually run Logic and the same Pro Tools my work uses!


My question is what to do now? Is it worth buying the full 8GB of RAM this system can support as this will cost me around 100? Should I watch for anything when buying the HDD or can I just buy any 1TB SATA? Is it worth trying to get great graphics on this system or should I just accept this will be an audio only rig?

Bearing in mind when I turn this machine on, it will be the first ever Mac this entrenched and staunch Windows-supporter has ever owned. What do you guys recommend I put in and do to it to give it the best chance of charming me over to the Mac camp?

Best Regards,

Rob



MAC MAN JW
Jul 21, 2011, 08:36 PM
Get at lest 4 gb ram,1tb+hard drive,and Leopard 10.5.8. any sata drive will work but only at sata1 speed (1.5gbps) sata3 hard drives will go down to sata1 speed so that will work fine!! a video card wood help as well but ram+Hard drive is #1 to get up and going the ram has to be installed in pairs! my first mac was a g3 450 B&W tower back in 2007(Still have today and use weekley:)) now i am up to 12 macs i use my powerbook g4 1.5 ghz (What i am typing From now) as my #2 mac my main mac is my PowerMac G5 Dual 1.8GHZ!!!:apple: i don't think there is a 2.5ghz dc mac only a Power Mac G5
Quad Core 2.5GHz or a 2.5 ghz dual cpu model. they take not the same ram one is Pc 3200 and the outher is pc2-4200 what model is it? the hard drive is the same in all powermac g5s

briansolomon
Jul 21, 2011, 08:47 PM
Just be careful how much money you want to put in this. Those cooling systems are prone to leaking (and ruining the system)...Maybe some G5 owners can speak to how prevalent this is but from what I've read it's very common.

MAC MAN JW
Jul 21, 2011, 08:53 PM
Just be careful how much money you want to put in this. Those cooling systems are prone to leaking (and ruining the system)...Maybe some G5 owners can speak to how prevalent this is but from what I've read it's very common.

Your right, look for leaks inside before you buy any thing for your G5!!!:apple:

sporadicMotion
Jul 21, 2011, 08:56 PM
That'll get ya by for sure. I only have one question. Do you know that the machine works 100% ? If it doesn't, be careful as ya might just be in for some disappointment. That aside (if ya know it works), then I would just max the RAM and pick up a HD to start ya off until you can afford more. Besides, your still gonna be best off having your audio data on a separate drives.

MAC MAN JW
Jul 21, 2011, 09:10 PM
That'll get ya by for sure. I only have one question. Do you know that the machine works 100% ? If it doesn't, be careful as ya might just be in for some disappointment. That aside (if ya know it works), then I would just max the RAM and pick up a HD to start ya off until you can afford more. Besides, your still gonna be best off having your audio data on a separate drives.

They should plug it in and press the power butten and her beeps or a falshing power light (with out the ram) that wood atlest give some hope of it working:) i just hope that is not way he or she got that as a gift that wood be very sad:(

MAC MAN JW
Jul 22, 2011, 08:07 AM
If it is A Quad G5 you can go up to 16GB RAM (That is what Apple says) i seen some people put it up to 32GB RAM in a Quad G5:)

RadiusProject
Jul 22, 2011, 11:32 AM
Sorry all, I said it was DC out of habit, it is of course only DP.

I wasn't even aware this thing was water cooled, but I know this mac was working before given to me as I used it many times at work. I can see no fluid anwhere inside the case or evidence of an earlier leak, so I should be good to go!

sporadicMotion
Jul 22, 2011, 11:43 AM
Sorry all, I said it was DC out of habit, it is of course only DP.

I wasn't even aware this thing was water cooled, but I know this mac was working before given to me as I used it many times at work. I can see no fluid anwhere inside the case or evidence of an earlier leak, so I should be good to go!

That's great! Be sure to let us know what you decide to put in the ole bird.

MAC MAN JW
Jul 22, 2011, 11:50 AM
Sorry all, I said it was DC out of habit, it is of course only DP.

I wasn't even aware this thing was water cooled, but I know this mac was working before given to me as I used it many times at work. I can see no fluid anwhere inside the case or evidence of an earlier leak, so I should be good to go!

Her is about your G5 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/stats/powermac_g5_2.5_dp.html

You will need PC3200 DDR Ram for your G5 and can have up to 8GB Ram:):apple:

Tucom
Jul 22, 2011, 12:54 PM
Is it an aircooled or liquid cooled 2.5 Dual Processor? There were some aircooled models and ofcourse those are the way more desirable ones as the LC'd machines can and most likely will leak and take the internal down with it.


First thing you should do I think is check to make sure its all good under the hood :)

Cox Orange
Jul 22, 2011, 04:23 PM
... 1tb+hard drive and Leopard 10.5.8.
I would not call 1TB as a "minimum/must have" for a Boot Drive, I see 1TB Drives more as "data-graves". A smaller drive will be fine, a bigger drive can be put in the second bay, if he has over 500GB of samples, plugins,... or so.
10.4 will work more efficient on PowerPCs and with some software... but you may not recognize the difference to 10.5.
Is it an aircooled or liquid cooled 2.5 Dual Processor? There were some aircooled models and ofcourse those are the way more desirable ones as the LC'd machines can and most likely will leak and take the internal down with it.

There was no air cooled 2,5GHz model. Not the 2x 1x2,5GHz (which he has), nor the Quad 2,5GHz (2x 2x2,5GHz).
Everything with "2,5" in its speed has Liquid cooling.

@ OP: are you aware that this is a PowerPC architecture machine and no software for Intel-Macs (like Mac Pro), which includes OS 10.6 and 10.7 is supported? I am just saying because there are so many people new to Macs not knowing that there was a complete architecture/firmware change.
I do not want to warn you, PowerPC Macs are still "lovable" machines:), if you do not need to use the newest software or audiohardware drivers.

ecschwarz
Jul 22, 2011, 05:21 PM
Keep in mind that even though a lot of new software and OSes don't work on the PowerPC Macs, you still can use the latest versions of iTunes and Safari, and TenFourFox is a special Firefox build for PPC Macs. They're old, but still good, especially with Leopard installed.

Tucom
Jul 22, 2011, 05:27 PM
Keep in mind that even though a lot of new software and OSes *DON'T* work on the PowerPC Macs, you still can use the latest versions of iTunes and Safari, and TenFourFox is a special Firefox build for PPC Macs. They're old, but still good, especially with Leopard installed.


Fixed. And true.

RadiusProject
Jul 22, 2011, 09:17 PM
yeah i've known since i got the thing that only certain versions of software will run, its not an issue. im going to primarily use this machine to run pro tools, and the latest version i can run is 8.0.1, which is fine for me.

An update for everyone, i just bought 4x 1GB sticks of RAM for this machine. this set me back 100, i had no idea the ram would cost so much! My PC has ram 3 times the speed at half the price! I guess with older machines the cost can only go up! I got 4gb as this is all i can afford for now, next month i'll get another 4x 1GB sticks and max this machine out RAM wise.

Now to get a HDD!

MAC MAN JW
Jul 23, 2011, 08:40 AM
yeah i've known since i got the thing that only certain versions of software will run, its not an issue. im going to primarily use this machine to run pro tools, and the latest version i can run is 8.0.1, which is fine for me.

An update for everyone, i just bought 4x 1GB sticks of RAM for this machine. this set me back 100, i had no idea the ram would cost so much! My PC has ram 3 times the speed at half the price! I guess with older machines the cost can only go up! I got 4gb as this is all i can afford for now, next month i'll get another 4x 1GB sticks and max this machine out RAM wise.

Now to get a HDD!

Just Tell us if you need any more help:):):) 4 GB Ram is good for now it will let leopard or tiger run very fast:) i ran my Powermac G5 With OS X Leopard With only 512Mb ram for 2 months:eek: and i do not want to do that again:D

RadiusProject
Jul 23, 2011, 01:52 PM
oh god, this is becoming a bit of an epic hassle now.

So my RAM looks like it might be delayed, and i'm finding it difficult to find a Leopard 10.5 disk. It looks like after RAM, HDD, OS Install disk and other bits and pieces this may cost me around 250. It's still a complete bargain, but I'm just at that point where I've paid out a lot for no reward- this thing has yet to be turned on.

I bought a 500GB Green Western Digital SATA HDD today and fitted it. Hopefully when my RAM gets here I can at least see if the thing powers on. And then, after another wait for an install disk that may/may not work, I might have my mac. I'm pretty sure this will all be totally worth it. After the OS 10.5 is installed and I see how many programs I can/cannot install is when I find out I guess.

Nameci
Jul 23, 2011, 04:48 PM
imho, the best thing you should have done is just buy a pair of ram first and let it boot. Hearing the "bong" or the startup sound when you power it up indicates that the system is good and it is still booting. Have yo tried to power it up? Before putting more money into it.

My PM DC 2.3 came from ebay with 512mb of ram on it, no HDD. But basing from the posted picture on ebay it is booting up since the posted picture is showing a folder with "?" on it when it boots. That means it has booted successfully, the ram is good, it has video output and it is just looking for a hard drive. So I have taken the risk.

As of today, I have added 4 gb or memory, 60 GB SSD as boot drive, 80 GB as internal storage, ATI X1900 that did not work, two 21.5" 1920x1080 acer monitor, aluminum wireless keyboard and magic mouse, and a USB BT dongle.

So far for the project cost;
Powermac = $115
4 GB Ram = $50 (The other 4 GB is free since I already have them)
60 GB SSD = Free (I have it already)
80 GB HDD = Free (I have it already)
ATI x1900 = $60 (Losses since it is DOA)
2 Monitors = $250
BT Dongle = Free
Mouse and Keyboard = Free
iSight = Free

Total = $475 for a fast fully working system, with 8.5GB of ram.

Check if your machine is powering up first, and boots up, if it is then it will be worth the investment.

reddrag0n
Jul 23, 2011, 11:32 PM
There was no air cooled 2,5GHz model. Not the 2x 1x2,5GHz (which he has), nor the Quad 2,5GHz (2x 2x2,5GHz).
Everything with "2,5" in its speed has Liquid cooling.
Mine is air cooled (http://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/44549/Information+about+LCU-heatsink+cooling#answer57293)... :cool:

Took a bit of work, but yes, it's an air cooled G5 DP 2.5 GHz (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1020076/jj/g5lcs2air.html)

Cox Orange
Jul 24, 2011, 09:27 AM
Mine is air cooled (http://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/44549/Information+about+LCU-heatsink+cooling#answer57293)... :cool:

Took a bit of work, but yes, it's an air cooled G5 DP 2.5 GHz (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1020076/jj/g5lcs2air.html)

Well, that way... but Tucom claimed, that some came air cooled from stock!

@ OP:
I do not remember how it was with this G5, but most Macs, make beeps, when powered up and something is missing or wrong. (There is a document on apple.com/support where they explain what number of beeps indicate what failure.). So you could press the powerbutton and see, if it beeps or you see a red LED light up looking through the "cheese grater".
The others may correct me, because I am not sure.

zen.state
Jul 24, 2011, 09:34 AM
Just wanted to clarify that using the word "gutted" in the thread title implies that all the hardware inside was removed. Not just memory and drives.

Cox Orange
Jul 24, 2011, 10:27 AM
Funny thought though, that someone would suggest adding RAM and HDD to get it working without logicboard :)

sporadicMotion
Jul 24, 2011, 01:22 PM
Funny thought though, that someone would suggest adding RAM and HDD to get it working without logicboard :)

You don't need no logic board! Just duct tape the parts to the side and drop a hemi in... ... ... ...

:apple:

OP: If you find it is not fast enough for Logic and Pro Tools (once it's running), the upside to turning it to a fully working machine is you can also sell it as such. If your patient selling it, you could get enough to purchase a Mini that would slay in Logic and Pro Tools. This only applies if you're using a firewire or USB interface... if it's PCI(x) then nevermind :p

RadiusProject
Jul 26, 2011, 09:21 AM
You don't need no logic board! Just duct tape the parts to the side and drop a hemi in... ... ... ...

:apple:

OP: If you find it is not fast enough for Logic and Pro Tools (once it's running), the upside to turning it to a fully working machine is you can also sell it as such. If your patient selling it, you could get enough to purchase a Mini that would slay in Logic and Pro Tools. This only applies if you're using a firewire or USB interface... if it's PCI(x) then nevermind :p


I've just had a look on eBay and I'm not seeing good prices for PowerPC Macs of this particular model. It looks likely that I can at least get the money back on the RAM and HDD if I do decide to sell. It looks like if I buy Leopard OSX 10.5 on eBay I'll go beyond this "safety budget" that reselling the machine provides.

The RAM has arrived however, now a copy of OSX 10.5 is all that stands in my way!

Cox Orange
Jul 26, 2011, 12:38 PM
Did you try to start it without OS, anyway? I would do that first, before getting Leopard! (I do not know, if you have mentioned, that you tested booting).

If you do not need flash-support on youtube and it is your recording machine only, get Tiger, if it is cheaper. It is more effective, according to numbers and tests lowendmacs.com provided. Perhaps, if your version of ProTools was launched (and optimized) with or after Leopard, then I would go with Leopard.

A Tip: interestingly, many poeple don't know how to search for prices on Ebay, so it is not meant as an offense when I am telling this now.
1. search for Powermac 2,5GHz in computers.
2. then scroll down until you can see "ended auctions" as an option on the left. press it
3. if you like you can then sort by "lowest prices first".

(prices where I live are 177-300eur)

MAC MAN JW
Jul 26, 2011, 12:58 PM
I've just had a look on eBay and I'm not seeing good prices for PowerPC Macs of this particular model. It looks likely that I can at least get the money back on the RAM and HDD if I do decide to sell. It looks like if I buy Leopard OSX 10.5 on eBay I'll go beyond this "safety budget" that reselling the machine provides.

The RAM has arrived however, now a copy of OSX 10.5 is all that stands in my way!

Now you got your RAM put it in your G5 and turn it on to make sure it works it will boot to the "Happy Mac" if the mac is working right:) (Even with out a hard drive in it) if it gos to the happy mac your mac is working 100% and is ready for os x:). i don't know if you have a craigslist wear you are? but wear i am i can get a retail Leopard disc on craigslist for $60 or less. so if you have a craigslist wear you are you may want to look:) her is one on ebay for $109 and free shipping world wide but you can make the seller a offer http://cgi.ebay.com/APPLE-MAC-OS-X-LEOPARD-FULL-INSTALL-10-5-DVD-MEGASALE-/180696730629?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a125d4c05#ht_9201wt_884 or you might be able to find a cheep sata hard drive on ebay with leopard on it and then copy it over to your new hard drive. i wish i waited to get my G5 Dual 1.8 (June 2004) off of ebay tell after lion came out i paid $120 (4 months ago) with no Hard Drive and only 512Mb Ram then,and now i can get the same thing for $60 on ebay:( but over all it is a very fast and reliable Mac ($85 later 2GB Ram+New Hard Drive) That is:)

RadiusProject
Aug 12, 2011, 05:52 PM
Ok, serious problems now.

I finally got hold of a system disk for OSX 10.5.

It wont install.

When I turn the machine on, I get the "bing" sound, and the flashing question mark folder. So I turn it off and reboot while holding C, and I get a blank grey screen. I press Option while booting, and get the refresh arrow and the next arrow, but no selectable drives and my cursor is an immovable wristwatch in the top left hand corner.

The fans go crazy and the whole thing sounds like its about to take off out my window. I struggle to get the disk in the machine because the disk tray takes ages to open, if at all.


As a first introduction to Apple, this has been rotten. I know, I know, its old hardware thats unsupported and obsolete. But I have hardware older than this that I still get tech support for, let alone basic help from the company itself. I'm sure the next 500 posts will be in defense of Apple, but it really is beginning to feel like a complete mistake for me to try and do this on a budget.

I'll stop there with how frustrated I am- all I actually want is some help getting the computer I've spent nearly 200 on to boot up.

AdrianK
Aug 12, 2011, 06:11 PM
Are you sure the optical drive isn't borked? They're just IDE drives so if have on old windows PC around you could just swap it out and try it.

brycemason
Aug 12, 2011, 06:36 PM
When you put the DVD in the drive, turn it on, and hold C, do you hear the DVD drive accessing the disk? It can take a long time to boot up off DVD.

If you got the "?" everything should be in order.

Paulywauly
Aug 12, 2011, 06:37 PM
I'm sure the next 500 posts will be in defense of Apple, but it really is beginning to feel like a complete mistake for me to try and do this on a budget.

I'll stop there with how frustrated I am- all I actually want is some help getting the computer I've spent nearly 200 on to boot up.

I think the mistake was finding the case/logicboard of such an old machine and pumping 200 into it in the hopes it will switch on.

This G5 is obviously causing you a lot of grief and could cause even more if you spend anything else on it. You may be better off selling the items you've already bought, sell the empty G5 for spares/repairs and buy a working one from ebay with the profits (which can be had for around 200)

MAC MAN JW
Aug 12, 2011, 06:50 PM
Ok, serious problems now.

I finally got hold of a system disk for OSX 10.5.

It wont install.

When I turn the machine on, I get the "bing" sound, and the flashing question mark folder. So I turn it off and reboot while holding C, and I get a blank grey screen. I press Option while booting, and get the refresh arrow and the next arrow, but no selectable drives and my cursor is an immovable wristwatch in the top left hand corner.

The fans go crazy and the whole thing sounds like its about to take off out my window. I struggle to get the disk in the machine because the disk tray takes ages to open, if at all.


As a first introduction to Apple, this has been rotten. I know, I know, its old hardware thats unsupported and obsolete. But I have hardware older than this that I still get tech support for, let alone basic help from the company itself. I'm sure the next 500 posts will be in defense of Apple, but it really is beginning to feel like a complete mistake for me to try and do this on a budget.

I'll stop there with how frustrated I am- all I actually want is some help getting the computer I've spent nearly 200 on to boot up.

Mine did not read the retail leopard DVD as well but did read my tiger disc? what i ended up doing is useing fire wire target disc mode with my PowerBook G4 1.5GHZ to install Leopard on my G5, do you know some one that has a mac that you can try fire wire target mode on? that will be the quickest way:) the G5 still has some power left in it my dual 1.8ghz G5 can play 1080p video yours is faster so you can play 1080p video to:) being you see the "happy mac" and get the "bing", once you get your os in it it will work good!

Cox Orange
Aug 14, 2011, 08:47 AM
@ OP

- the wrist watch is sometimes not or very slooooowly movable, when the Mac is still searching the Volume (DVD).

- not meant to be offensive, but do you have a PPC version of Leopard or a universal binary one?

- firewire target mode is the easiest way, as MacManJW mentioned. connect the two Macs, start up the other Mac, till you can see the desktop. Then start up the PowerMac G5 holding down "T". You should see a purple background with a firewire-sign dancing around. No the G5 is shown on the desktop of the other Mac as an external drive. Insert the DVD in the other Mac, choose install and then choose the "external" G5 as target-Volume.

zen.state
Aug 14, 2011, 09:02 AM
I have never heard of a PowerPC only Leopard install disk. 1 disk carries 4 different installers.

The 4 installers are:
Intel 32-bit
PowerPC 32-Bit
Intel 64-Bit
PowerPC 64-bit

Cox Orange
Aug 15, 2011, 03:22 PM
I have never heard of a PowerPC only Leopard install disk. 1 disk carries 4 different installers.

The 4 installers are:
Intel 32-bit
PowerPC 32-Bit
Intel 64-Bit
PowerPC 64-bit

I actually thought he might have an Intel only or one that came with a machine... if Intel-only versions do not exist, I have learned something, Thank you.

zen.state
Aug 15, 2011, 03:29 PM
I actually thought he might have an Intel only or one that came with a machine... if Intel-only versions do not exist, I have learned something, Thank you.

Here is much more detailed info:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5.ars/6

RadiusProject
Aug 19, 2011, 12:12 PM
Here's another solution - There is a 2.7 DP PPC I have access to. Could I clone this machines internal drive onto an external and then run OSX from that temporarily? My machine is a 2.5 DP, which is why I ask...

KurtangleTN
Aug 19, 2011, 12:19 PM
Here's another solution - There is a 2.7 DP PPC I have access to. Could I clone this machines internal drive onto an external and then run OSX from that temporarily? My machine is a 2.5 DP, which is why I ask...

Try a program called "Carbon Copy Clone" it's made just for that, if you have a firewire cable you should be able to attach them together and boot your 2.5 into target disk mode and clone it over.

You could also do this with a USB/FW enclosure.

I once tried to boot my Leopard "CPU DROP IN" disk into my PowerMac G4 and it wouldn't boot it. This disk came with my Intel iMac when Leopard first came out. I'm unsure if it's Intel only or not since the Power Mac is only 800mhz and isn't supported by Leopard, though I would still think it boots.