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docgerrard
Jul 23, 2011, 10:50 PM
Can I buy a macbook air now..

Then buy another one on tax free weekend, which falls within 14 days of today..


Then return this one that I payed tax for?



Obscurelight
Jul 23, 2011, 10:51 PM
pretty sure you can, since they have to refund you the amount you paid and not at the current price unless its a permanent price change.

Apple OC
Jul 23, 2011, 10:52 PM
sure ... what is the point though?

DollFaceDork
Jul 23, 2011, 10:54 PM
Surely it's not worth it?

brand
Jul 23, 2011, 10:54 PM
I would say more unethical than sneaky.

docgerrard
Jul 23, 2011, 10:58 PM
Well the point is that I can save 140 dollars!

And I just really want one now, thats all!

Plus, school starts August 17th for me, and this would give me enough time beforehand to test out the MBA and if I am not happy with it, order my second option and have it shipped to me in time for school to start.

Otherwise, tax free weekend falls from August 5-7 and I would have to wait until then!

Also, there is a chance I won't be in town that weekend and so I would have to order it online. This would further delay me getting it.

KPOM
Jul 23, 2011, 11:01 PM
sure ... what is the point though?

Getting "free" use of the Air for just under 2 weeks before buying it at a lower price.

Obscurelight
Jul 23, 2011, 11:03 PM
Well not a bad idea since if you buy it during tax free week and find out you want to switch for something else you'll miss out on the tax exemption.

nvcplus
Jul 23, 2011, 11:42 PM
Well the point is that I can save 140 dollars!



First, where do you live that you pay $140 in taxes? o_O

I live in Chicago (some of the highest taxes in the country) and still only paid $90.

Second, yeah dude, that is sneaky and wrong. But you're gonna do whatever you want, so why ask us? Is someone here really going to talk you out of it?

onthecouchagain
Jul 23, 2011, 11:46 PM
Nothing wrong with it. It's not unethical at all. He's operating within the parameters of the system that they set up. Go for it. It's essentially a more roundabout way of "price matching" items that go on sale a week later.

Obscurelight
Jul 23, 2011, 11:49 PM
First, where do you live that you pay $140 in taxes? o_O

I live in Chicago (some of the highest taxes in the country) and still only paid $90.

Second, yeah dude, that is sneaky and wrong. But you're gonna do whatever you want, so why ask us? Is someone here really going to talk you out of it?

I'm in NYC and I paid 136 and some change in tax. :(

docgerrard
Jul 23, 2011, 11:50 PM
First, where do you live that you pay $140 in taxes? o_O

I live in Chicago (some of the highest taxes in the country) and still only paid $90.

Second, yeah dude, that is sneaky and wrong. But you're gonna do whatever you want, so why ask us? Is someone here really going to talk you out of it?

i'm not asking if i should lol.

i don't think it is unethical at all, and i'm sure some people agree with me.

i was just asking if it was possible to do!

nebulos
Jul 23, 2011, 11:54 PM
obviously this is an abuse of the return policy.

Obscurelight
Jul 24, 2011, 12:02 AM
obviously this is an abuse of the return policy.

No returns policy gets abused more than walmart's :o once a person in front of me returned expired milk and she bought it before it went bad too.

Minhthien
Jul 24, 2011, 12:04 AM
i'm not asking if i should lol.

i don't think it is unethical at all, and i'm sure some people agree with me.

i was just asking if it was possible to do!

Thats a great idea! How about the first unit you buy and its a Samsung Display and Samsung SSD? R you still gonna return it and maybe get a LG display?

nebulos
Jul 24, 2011, 12:07 AM
No returns policy gets abused more than walmart's :o once a person in front of me returned expired milk and she bought it before it went bad too.

i was told that a friend of a friend used to buy those huge bags of dog food, take half out, make up the difference with gravel, and return it.

!


OP, if you could take yours back, do a return, and buy the same laptop again, but deduct the tax, i guess i would think that was much better. my guess is that's probably against policy, though, and won't be possible;

you could do that with a place that price matches, but this wouldn't be a price match.

nebulos
Jul 24, 2011, 12:09 AM
you can't order from amazon or macmall or whatever without getting charged taxes?

WillMak
Jul 24, 2011, 12:12 AM
Or you can just order off amazon

iAAPL
Jul 24, 2011, 12:53 AM
Well the point is that I can save 140 dollars!

And I just really want one now, thats all!

Plus, school starts August 17th for me, and this would give me enough time beforehand to test out the MBA and if I am not happy with it, order my second option and have it shipped to me in time for school to start.

Otherwise, tax free weekend falls from August 5-7 and I would have to wait until then!

Also, there is a chance I won't be in town that weekend and so I would have to order it online. This would further delay me getting it.

When you say school, do you mean college? If so, does your school sell Macs on campus? Many schools sell computers tax-free if a laptop is required for one of your classes.

2IS
Jul 24, 2011, 12:56 AM
First, where do you live that you pay $140 in taxes? o_O

I live in Chicago (some of the highest taxes in the country) and still only paid $90.

Second, yeah dude, that is sneaky and wrong. But you're gonna do whatever you want, so why ask us? Is someone here really going to talk you out of it?

You do realize that tax is a percentage of the total sale right? So if he buys a more expensive MBA he's going to pay more taxes. A 1400 purchase here gets you $136.50 in taxes.

That said, yeah, just wait.

oBMTo
Jul 24, 2011, 01:00 AM
Is this tax free weekend nationwide? Where can I get more info on this?

iAAPL
Jul 24, 2011, 01:47 AM
Is this tax free weekend nationwide? Where can I get more info on this?

No, just a handful of states, and it's not on one particular weekend. Each state chooses when. Here (http://singleparents.about.com/od/cuttingcosts/qt/TaxFreeHoliday.htm).

eyespii
Jul 24, 2011, 02:06 AM
i say go for it. Of all the unethical things that you could do, this isn't so bad.

Kyllle
Jul 24, 2011, 08:16 AM
sure you can. It's not really abuse of the return policy, Apple knows people buy things knowing they will return them sometimes.

Are you sure the tax-free thing includes computers? At least in texas, it only includes clothes and school supply-type things, definitely not electronics. If you want tax-free, just buy from amazon. Unless of course you're in one of the few unlucky states that already has to pay tax on amazon purchases.

Otherwise though, I think this should work fine. You'll have to transfer all your data to your second MBA after you return the first one though, so it would be wise to keep both until you've gotten everything off the original.

Lord Appleseed
Jul 24, 2011, 08:22 AM
Whats so hard about waiting anyway?

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 08:41 AM
Tax-free weekend is only for certain states (SC)!

All right, so I am going to do it. You guys say its unethical, but that is not an issue for me. I'm still a good guy I swear! :)

But this is why:

1) Have it in my hands earlier!
2) I will be out of town that weekend, still tax-free if I order from Apple, but then I would have to wait for shipping!
3) Now, if I am not satisfied, I won't miss out on tax-free for any other machines!
4) It actually gives me enough time to test it out and buy a new machine before school starts!

And I am going to a professional school now, and unfortunately we do not have a mac store on campus. We have one in the same city that will still honor the education discount though :)

Last question (again, some may think it is unethical.. but I really don't care)

What if I bought this one and then bought another one on tax-free weekend... then just kept this one and put the one i bought on tax-free weekend in the box of the one i bought earlier? LOL

Puonti
Jul 24, 2011, 08:55 AM
What if I bought this one and then bought another one on tax-free weekend... then just kept this one and put the one i bought on tax-free weekend in the box of the one i bought earlier? LOL

The serial number on the device wouldn't match the one on the receipt and the store's internal records. I don't know what they'd do about it, though (assuming both devices had the same configuration - if not, no doubt they'd deny the return).

Ijustfarted
Jul 24, 2011, 08:58 AM
do it. do it. do it. Do it. Do It. DO It. DO IT. DO IT. DO IT. DO IT.


DO IT! :mad:

Dave421
Jul 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
Regardless of what you & others think, yes it IS unethical. You're costing Apple money so that you can get the best of both worlds. Just because something is within the rules doesn't make it ethical. You're taking profit out of their pocket, forcing them to sell your old computer as a refurb when there is nothing wrong with it except a spoiled, entitled brat wanted to screw the system. Congratulations to you and the others that feel this is ethical for being one of the problems with this country today. Why don't you go ahead and sign up for an ethics class at your school. You obviously don't understand anything about it.

And yes, I'll be one of the ones laughing if you end up dropping it and busting the screen and end up with nothing. Karma loves people like you.

Scepticalscribe
Jul 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
sure ... what is the point though?

This is what occurred to me, as well.

Whats so hard about waiting anyway?

Exactly my views on the matter.

To put so much effort, energy, thought, and time, into something such as this, is........somewhat excessive, to my mind.

psxguru
Jul 24, 2011, 09:34 AM
Tax-free weekend is only for certain states (SC)!

All right, so I am going to do it. You guys say its unethical, but that is not an issue for me. I'm still a good guy I swear! :)


You are going to medical school, yet have no problem with ethics. It bodes well for your future career! :D

Lord Appleseed
Jul 24, 2011, 09:36 AM
Exactly my views on the matter.

To put so much effort, energy, thought, and time, into something such as this, is........somewhat excessive, to my mind.

I'd even go as far as to say that it sounds like a criminal planning his coup.

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 10:08 AM
Whatever bros. I didn't want this to be a discussion on how "ethical" I was being but rather Apple's return policy would allow me to do this.

You guys can continue giving thousands of dollars to Apple Corporation instead of doing the most "ethical" thing and donating to charity. I will continue watching every penny I spend and not care if poor little Apple has to sell a refurbished product but instead save myself $100.



Still, everyone here has been very helpful in the past and will continue being very helpful, so thanks again!

Regardless of what you & others think, yes it IS unethical. You're costing Apple money so that you can get the best of both worlds. Just because something is within the rules doesn't make it ethical. You're taking profit out of their pocket, forcing them to sell your old computer as a refurb when there is nothing wrong with it except a spoiled, entitled brat wanted to screw the system. Congratulations to you and the others that feel this is ethical for being one of the problems with this country today. Why don't you go ahead and sign up for an ethics class at your school. You obviously don't understand anything about it.

And yes, I'll be one of the ones laughing if you end up dropping it and busting the screen and end up with nothing. Karma loves people like you.

You literally care more about a billion dollar corporation having to sell a refurbished product than a regular consumer (and medical student living off of government loans) trying to save a quick $100.

Lord Appleseed
Jul 24, 2011, 10:16 AM
Whatever bros. I didn't want this to be a discussion on how "ethical" I was being but rather Apple's return policy would allow me to do this.

If apple knew the reasons WHY you want do this they would have a reason to deny the return.

You guys can continue giving thousands of dollars to Apple Corporation instead of doing the most "ethical" thing and donating to charity. I will continue watching every penny I spend and not care if poor little Apple has to sell a refurbished product but instead save myself $100.
Just because you don't have much and they have a lot doesn't justify doing something unethical.

Btrthnezr3
Jul 24, 2011, 10:18 AM
You literally care more about a billion dollar corporation having to sell a refurbished product than a regular consumer (and medical student living off of government loans) trying to save a quick $100.


What kind of financial state would that "billion dollar corporation" be in if we all decided to do things like this...just to save a quick $100?

bigp9998
Jul 24, 2011, 10:22 AM
You literally care more about a billion dollar corporation having to sell a refurbished product than a regular consumer (and medical student living off of government loans) trying to save a quick $100.

You are not "trying to save a quick $100". You could easily save the same amount of money by WAITING 2 WEEKS.

Btrthnezr3
Jul 24, 2011, 10:24 AM
You are not "trying to save a quick $100". You could easily save the same amount of money by WAITING 2 WEEKS.

Yes...true. Thank you!

noisycats
Jul 24, 2011, 10:31 AM
... when there is nothing wrong with it except a spoiled, entitled brat wanted to screw the system.

This is the entire issue in a nutshell.

You literally care more about a billion dollar corporation having to sell a refurbished product than a regular consumer (and medical student living off of government loans) trying to save a quick $100.

Any regular customer? Probably not.
A self entitled brat? Absolutely. I'll root for the major corporation every time.

You are not trying to save a quick buck, you are trying to scam a quick buck.
There's huge difference, but I don't expect you to comprehend that.

jdavtz
Jul 24, 2011, 10:32 AM
You could talk the the store manager, tell them that you know this tax free offer is coming up, and ask if you could buy one today at the tax-free price, instead of buying one and then returning it. Or you could ask in advance if they can refund the difference if you go back in on the tax free weekend (saves the returning and swapping hassle).

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 11:13 AM
Self-entitled brat?

You guys must be angels.



And yes, the very fact that they have billions and I don't is why its all right. I'll use the money I save to donate to charity (something your glorious leader Steve Jobs has never really been shown to do, to my knowledge). Or I will use the money to put back into the economy at the mom and pop small business. Regardless, both of these are better options then going into Steve Jobs mutual fund.

If you are trying to argue this is unethical... you don't know much about ethics. Either way, I'm not doing anything against the rules. I will buy my first macbook air. I will obviously not be satisfied with the product when I know I can get it for $100 cheaper. If I am not satisfied, I can return it and buy another one to then become completely satisfied with the product.

Finally, I will be happy to make another consumer perfectly happy by giving them a "refurbished" MBA that will be in perfectly good shape.

Lord Appleseed
Jul 24, 2011, 11:15 AM
Self-entitled brat?

You guys must be angels.


It seems so, at least compared to you.

All your points to justify your plan are practically invalid.

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 11:18 AM
I'm saying $100 means more to basically anyone than a billion dollar corporation. If I was going into the register and stealing this money, that would be one thing.

I am doing something clearly outlined on Apples return policy.

Now which of those is invalid?

kickandglide
Jul 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
Definite abuse of the generous Apple return policy: you are buying the first one under false pretenses since you do not plan to keep it. Also, if you have to order these it is a blatant waste of resources and energy to ship back and forth, process through the system, and prepare for resale. All and all, you are less than ethical using this tactic; don't be so spoiled - wait the two weeks.

bigp9998
Jul 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
I'm saying $100 means more to basically anyone than a billion dollar corporation. If I was going into the register and stealing this money, that would be one thing.

I am doing something clearly outlined on Apples return policy.

Now which of those is invalid?

As I said earlier, saying you are saving $100 is invalid because you would pay the same price if you waited 2 weeks. The only reason you want to buy now is because you are impatient, spoiled, and entitled.

And why do I somehow doubt that you will be "donating the money to charity"? Most penny-pinchers I know would be the last to give up their precious dimes and nickels to a worthy cause.

Lord Appleseed
Jul 24, 2011, 11:26 AM
I'm saying $100 means more to basically anyone than a billion dollar corporation. If I was going into the register and stealing this money, that would be one thing.You are still abusing the system.

I am doing something clearly outlined on Apples return policy.

Now which of those is invalid?No, you are not taking use of something that is outlined, you are abusing it, because you know beforehand that you will return and thus cause damage.

It's unrightful.

Apple OC
Jul 24, 2011, 11:26 AM
be extra careful you do not drop or spill something on it while waiting 2 weeks for your big winfall

Dave421
Jul 24, 2011, 11:28 AM
I'm saying $100 means more to basically anyone than a billion dollar corporation. If I was going into the register and stealing this money, that would be one thing.

I am doing something clearly outlined on Apples return policy.

Now which of those is invalid?


The fact that you don't understand that you ARE in effect going into the register and stealing the $100 shows how deluded you are. Congratulations on being a well rounded individual. If you're going into medicine, enjoy that first malpractice lawsuit by someone that's not "breaking any rules."

Also, please spare us the BS that you're going to donate it to charity. Unless Charity is a stripper, we all know you're lying.

kickandglide
Jul 24, 2011, 11:31 AM
Your whole argument is rubbish. You said the savings is born out of a tax-free weekend? Well, you aren't screwing a multi-billion dollar company out of funds you are screwing your state. Don't try to be all high and mighty about "I'll give the savings to charity etc..." You are screwing the paving job that is needed downtown, the school budget, police officer, or country clerk that processes your driver's license out of salary or benefits. Don't you know what taxes are for? You are screwing your state while at the same time abusing Apple's return policy.

If you want it now, be man enough to pay the taxes. You are a classic American jerk.

Dave421
Jul 24, 2011, 11:32 AM
Hey guys, I've come up with a way to scam my bank out of hundreds of thousands of dollars on my mortgage. I know it's ethical because they have more money than me but what I'm wanting to know is, is it against policy? I'm going to do it anyway but I was just wondering. I'm cool with it and all because they have a bunch of money and stuff. Thanks!

PS, I flunked Ethics 101 because that professor was a moron!

snberk103
Jul 24, 2011, 11:42 AM
For what it's worth. imho ..... It's not nice to do, but it is perfectly legal. It's simply using a loophole that Apple has chosen to leave open. If too many people take advantage of the loophole, Apple will close it. Also, Apple has already priced it's products to account for this kind of "loss". In essence, we are all paying a teeny bit more on our new products to balance out this "loss".

On the plus side, there will be a shiny new MBA on the refurbished site shortly after tax free weekend, for one us to pick up on a serious discount. It would be ironic if one of us picked up their refurbished MBA for cheaper than the OP gets their tax-free MBA. :)

@OP Just take really good care of your MBA.... I don't know what the condition of the machine needs to be in to qualify for a return.... but I would guess you would want to know that. Otherwise your grand scheme may meet a hiccup....

Also, depending on how you pay for it you may end up with two purchases on your credit card for a period of time, until the return is processed. In my experience stores will charge for purchases the instant you make them, but will need to send returns in for processing to a very slow back-office.

Obscurelight
Jul 24, 2011, 11:44 AM
I think this is all being taken too far. If the OP wants to do this he probably will regardless of anyone else's opinions on whether it is ethical or not.

s.hasan546
Jul 24, 2011, 11:46 AM
Your whole argument is rubbish. You said the savings is born out of a tax-free weekend? Well, you aren't screwing a multi-billion dollar company out of funds you are screwing your state. Don't try to be all high and mighty about "I'll give the savings to charity etc..." You are screwing the paving job that is needed downtown, the school budget, police officer, or country clerk that processes your driver's license out of salary or benefits. Don't you know what taxes are for? You are screwing your state while at the same time abusing Apple's return policy.

If you want it now, be man enough to pay the taxes. You are a classic American jerk.

so taking advantage of a tax free weekend is screwing the state? OP you could buy the laptop and than go back within the 14 days and just ask apple to re ring the same item up. Meaning they could return it and resell the SAME unit, and that saves you the tax. Than your not screwing anyone. Not the state or apple. The state doesn't care about what you spend on a tax free weekend. THEY WANT YOU TO SPEND ON A TAX FREE WEEKEND.

ritmomundo
Jul 24, 2011, 11:51 AM
I didn't want this to be a discussion on how "ethical" I was being

Seriously? Yet you name the thread "I know this is sneaky but.."

As for the charity stuff, don't delude yourself. You're not gonna donate that $140 to charity. Just stop lying. You thought up a sneaky way to cheat the system and get what you want, and you wanted people here to applaud you. Too bad your plan backfired.

AbeFroman77
Jul 24, 2011, 11:54 AM
It's within Apple's policy, so why not. It will also go into Apple's refurbished store and will provide someone with a good working MBA at a lower cost.

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 11:57 AM
Hey guys, I've come up with a way to scam my bank out of hundreds of thousands of dollars on my mortgage. I know it's ethical because they have more money than me but what I'm wanting to know is, is it against policy? I'm going to do it anyway but I was just wondering. I'm cool with it and all because they have a bunch of money and stuff. Thanks!

PS, I flunked Ethics 101 because that professor was a moron!

if you are equating this to yoru example, then yes you must have flunked Ethics 101

AbeFroman77
Jul 24, 2011, 12:02 PM
Hey guys, I've come up with a way to scam my bank out of hundreds of thousands of dollars on my mortgage. I know it's ethical because they have more money than me but what I'm wanting to know is, is it against policy? I'm going to do it anyway but I was just wondering. I'm cool with it and all because they have a bunch of money and stuff. Thanks!

PS, I flunked Ethics 101 because that professor was a moron!

How is following Apple's policy a scam or fraud? He can return it for whatever reason. I returned my MBA yesterday and I didn't even have to give a reason why.

bigp9998
Jul 24, 2011, 12:04 PM
Legal ≠ Ethical

iAAPL
Jul 24, 2011, 12:06 PM
I'm not one who really likes to jump on the bandwagon of chastising someone for their personal decisions, but there's something I would like to clear up.

You are acting as if this is stealing $100 from a multibillion dollar company. That's not true. You are stealing $100 from your local schools, road crews, and emergency services. Yeah, your state is a multibillion dollar organization, too, but they are hurting for literally every penny right now. There's a reason why only a few states offer a tax-free holiday.

As for Apple, you are stealing far more than $100. If they have to sell something as 'refurbished', that is a 20%-25% drop in value. In this case, that would be $200+ dollars. I'm not sure how exactly this works, but I'm sure when something is returned, the Apple Store has to send it back to a warehouse or to Cupertino. I'm sure someone there has to inspect it/clean it up/wipe the drive/etc. They also have to reset the AppleCare warranty to 1 year. With all of the labor, even if it is in near perfect condition, as well as the shipping back and forth, you're costing them probably a couple hundred more.

I have no idea how much it costs Apple to build a MacBook Air (not including the millions in r&d), but I'm sure you're are eating most, if not all of their profit.

They are the largest consumer electronics company in the world, and well on their way to becoming the largest company in the world. They didn't get there by selling high end computers at a zero-profit margin.

Bottom line, do whatever you want. You're stealing $100 from your state, and several hundred dollars from Apple. You're the one who has to live with yourself...

AbeFroman77
Jul 24, 2011, 12:11 PM
I'm not one who really likes to jump on the bandwagon of chastising someone for their personal decisions, but there's something I would like to clear up.

You are acting as if this is stealing $100 from a multibillion dollar company. That's not true. You are stealing $100 from your local schools, road crews, and emergency services. Yeah, your state is a multibillion dollar organization, too, but they are hurting for literally every penny right now.

As for Apple, you are stealing far more than $100. If they have to sell something as 'refurbished', that is a 20%-25% drop in value. In this case, that would be $200+ dollars. I'm not sure how exactly this works, but I'm sure when something is returned, the Apple Store has to send it back to a warehouse or to Cupertino. I'm sure someone there has to inspect it/clean it up/wipe the drive/etc. They also have to reset the AppleCare warranty to 1 year. With all of the labor, even if it is in near perfect condition, as well as the shipping back and forth, you're costing them probably a couple hundred more.

I have no idea how much it costs Apple to build a MacBook Air (not including the millions in r&d), but I'm sure you're are eating most, if not all of their profit.

They are the largest consumer electronics company in the world, and well on their way to becoming the largest company in the world. They didn't get there by selling high end computers at a zero-profit margin.

Bottom line, do whatever you want. You're stealing $100 from your state, and several hundred dollars from Apple. You're the one who has to live with yourself...

That sounded good, but the state won't be losing anything from this, nor Apple. I guess I just cost my state and Apple a lot of money because I returned my i7 MBA because I decided I'm going with an i5 instead. Apple really screwed it up by allowing returns.

snberk103
Jul 24, 2011, 12:13 PM
if you are equating this to yoru example, then yes you must have flunked Ethics 101

I'm with you on this one. It may not be nice, but you playing the game by the rules. These corporations have already calculated how many people will actually return a product when they offer a returns policy. They have priced their products accordingly. And they are gambling that they will sell way more units because of the return policy, than will actually take advantage of it.

All you are doing is taking advantage of an existing policy in a creative way that benefits you.

Besides the two caveats I've already mentioned, there is one more I've thought of.... transferring your content over from the old machine to the new one. As a return it may not qualify for Apple's transfer service at the genius store. So... you may need to buy your tax-free unit first. Let them do the transfer (or take it home and do it yourself) and then return the old unit for your refund. This means you'll need a bit more financial muscle for that overlap.

Some programs tag the machine that they are licensed for, CS3 being one of them. So you will either need to unlicense the old machine, and relicense the new one - or go through the hoops of contacting support to get the license moved over. Not a biggie, but something to plan for. Make sure *all* of your programs work as expected on the new machine before heading in to your first essay deadline.

Obscurelight
Jul 24, 2011, 12:17 PM
I think everyone is really overreacting to the 100 in taxes thing. For one, the US government does billions in frivolous spending every year. Also why do you think they have tax free shopping days? They want to PROMOTE spending and buying of goods on those days. I do agree that AppleTax usually has returns covered. I am sure they are not going into the red why they take a return back to sell as a refurb.

eyespii
Jul 24, 2011, 12:19 PM
Aren't you just returning the unopened MBA that you purchase on tax free weekend using the first receipt with tax? Why would apple have to sell a refurbished item if you did that?

Obscurelight
Jul 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
Aren't you just returning the unopened MBA that you purchase on tax free weekend using the first receipt with tax? Why would apple have to sell a refurbished item if you did that?

The OP will be unable to do that. Since sales keep track of hardware serial, he will have to return the opened one to get the refund.

snberk103
Jul 24, 2011, 12:38 PM
....

You are acting as if this is stealing $100 from a multibillion dollar company. That's not true. You are stealing $100 from your local schools, road crews, and emergency services. Yeah, your state is a multibillion dollar organization, too, but they are hurting for literally every penny right now. There's a reason why only a few states offer a tax-free holiday.

...

Except the State is the one offering the tax-holiday. As part of the services they offer, they routinely do this to allow families to stock up on school supplies just before the school year starts. They don't make people justify the purchases, they just offer a really easy way to get some stuff for a bit cheaper. It is just part of the many services that the State offers their citizens.

It also puts a bit of a jolt into a local economy, and it employs people.

People who order online to avoid State taxes are doing for more harm to State revenues, since it online purchasing doesn't put any jolt into a local economy, nor does it employ anybody except the delivery drivers. It's a loophole that the States are trying to close.

bigp9998
Jul 24, 2011, 12:46 PM
Taking advantage of the tax-free weekend is perfectly fine. Perfectly ethical. The state has put the tax-free policy in place for just this reason--to encourage spending leading up to back-to-school.

The unethical part is buying a computer 2 weeks before said weekend with the intention of returning it just because the OP can't bear life without his MBA in the meantime. Seriously guys, he might die if he can't use that computer before the tax free weekend.

AbeFroman77
Jul 24, 2011, 12:49 PM
Taking advantage of the tax-free weekend is perfectly fine. Perfectly ethical. The state has put the tax-free policy in place for just this reason--to encourage spending leading up to back-to-school.

The unethical part is buying a computer 2 weeks before said weekend with the intention of returning it just because the OP can't bear life without his MBA in the meantime. Seriously guys, he might die if he can't use that computer before the tax free weekend.

Is it unethical to buy an 11" MBA with the intention of returning it (if it doesn't suit my needs)?

I think you guys are going a little overboard.

snberk103
Jul 24, 2011, 04:24 PM
....
The unethical part is buying a computer 2 weeks before said weekend with the intention of returning it just because the OP can't bear life without his MBA in the meantime. Seriously guys, he might die if he can't use that computer before the tax free weekend.

But why is it unethical? Apple has a policy that says you can return stuff. It doesn't ask you why, or specify the conditions. The purchaser, in this case, is benefiting by the timing. But that is not forbidden by the policy. Apple has calculated that more people will buy their stuff with a generous return policy. And the few people who find creative ways to benefit from it are merely the cost of doing business. imho, of course.....

nebulos
Jul 24, 2011, 04:32 PM
Legal ≠ Ethical

+1

it's not killing puppies, but it's an abuse of the policy, and 'sneaky', as the OP said from the start, i.e., unethical.

buying an 11" to try it out knowing you can return it if you don't like the size is completely appropriate.

as has been said a billion times already, buying a computer knowing you will return in 14 days to save on taxes is not appropriate.

OP's gonna do it, or did it, anyways. no point in arguing. i doubt any one of us is going to convince the other.

this is a stupid thread and i want it to die, so i hate to post on it, but i guess i couldn't resist.

Mhotep
Jul 24, 2011, 04:36 PM
Nothing wrong with it at all. You are trying it out for 14 days then returning it beause of a promotion. Has noone not bought something, then find it on sale for a cheaper price, then return it to get the diff back? Same thing, just happen to know what the sale price is and when. I think everyone that lives in a state that has this over the next couple of weeks should do it.:D

AbeFroman77
Jul 24, 2011, 04:41 PM
+1

it's not killing puppies, but it's an abuse of the policy, and 'sneaky', as the OP said from the start, i.e., unethical.

buying an 11" to try it out knowing you can return it if you don't like the size is completely appropriate.

as has been said a billion times already, buying a computer knowing you will return in 14 days to save on taxes is not appropriate.

OP's gonna do it, or did it, anyways. no point in arguing. i doubt any one of us is going to convince the other.

this is a stupid thread and i want it to die, so i hate to post on it, but i guess i couldn't resist.

Goodness, it's not unethical. Apple assumed the risk with the policy they implemented. And guess what, they're making a killing because of the business steps they have taken. The generous return policy is one of them.

stevenpa
Jul 24, 2011, 04:47 PM
First, where do you live that you pay $140 in taxes? o_O

I live in Chicago (some of the highest taxes in the country) and still only paid $90.

Second, yeah dude, that is sneaky and wrong. But you're gonna do whatever you want, so why ask us? Is someone here really going to talk you out of it?

Midwest taxes are pretty cheap. CA/NY are way higher in many different taxes. Sure your parking meter rates quadrupled, but the rest is pretty cheap.


Nothing wrong with it. It's not unethical at all. He's operating within the parameters of the system that they set up. Go for it. It's essentially a more roundabout way of "price matching" items that go on sale a week later.

What you should do is buy now, and buy another one. You should be able to return the new Air you just bought on your old receipt. But avoiding taxes bugs me a bit because taxes to some extent help out your community. If the price is the same at a local store vs. Amazon/web store, I try to buy locally. Makes returns slightly easier most of the time and the tax money goes to your community. If it's a big ticket item where the savings would be significant (say $250+) then I would buy from Amazon. You're a student from what I gather so just do what you can afford.

stevenpa
Jul 24, 2011, 04:48 PM
Goodness, it's not unethical. Apple assumed the risk with the policy they implemented. And guess what, they're making a killing because of the business steps they have taken. The generous return policy is one of them.

Costco used (maybe they still do) have a 6 month return policy on laptops. That would mean you could simply get a new laptop every five months.:D

Lone Deranger
Jul 24, 2011, 05:03 PM
docgerrard, You've got a lot of growing up to do and hopefully learn about decency, morality, ethics, etc.
The greed you seem so keen on blaming that billion dollar company of is what's blinding you from seeing the error in your reasoning.

Bob Coxner
Jul 24, 2011, 05:13 PM
Costco used (maybe they still do) have a 6 month return policy on laptops. That would mean you could simply get a new laptop every five months.:D

That, and the similar policy on tvs, was abused badly. Now it's 90 days.

http://shop.costco.com/en/Customer-Service/Concierge/Electronics-Return-Policy.aspx

Dave421
Jul 24, 2011, 05:29 PM
Goodness, it's not unethical. Apple assumed the risk with the policy they implemented. And guess what, they're making a killing because of the business steps they have taken. The generous return policy is one of them.


You realize that you basically just said "we all pay more because of people like him so it's ok!"? I hope so because that's exactly what you're saying. Yes, it IS unethical. I run a business too and I have had to increase the price on items specifically because of entitled jerks that try to screw me and my business over. But hey, Visa has a policy allowing them to reverse charges regardless of the legally binding contract they have with me so it must be ethical, right? The fact that I've already spent money over the last 2 weeks getting drawings & permits (or the money Apple loses refurbishing & selling computers at a substantial discount) is completely irrelevant, right? As long as this guy is able to skirt the rules to get his pie & eat it too, everything is wonderful. Thankfully the poor fella won't have to go without buying a laptop for a whole two weeks!

So congratulations, if you ever try to buy something and wonder why the price is so high, refer back to this thread and remember that you specifically WANT it to be high cause god forbid that another entitled jackass loses the ability to screw the system while staying inside the rules. Welcome to America, where you can have whatever you want as long as you don't mind screwing the next guy out of it! BTW, does anyone here remember the mortgage crisis that heavily contributed to the collapse of our economy? Yeah, most of that was inside the rules too so I guess nobody here minds too much about all the people who lost their houses and the CEOs getting multi-million dollar bonuses, right? After all, if it's in the rules, it must be ethical.

AbeFroman77
Jul 24, 2011, 05:33 PM
You realize that you basically just said "we all pay more because of people like him so it's ok!"? I hope so because that's exactly what you're saying. Yes, it IS unethical. I run a business too and I have had to increase the price on items specifically because of entitled jerks that try to screw me and my business over. But hey, Visa has a policy allowing them to reverse charges regardless of the legally binding contract they have with me so it must be ethical, right? The fact that I've already spent money over the last 2 weeks getting drawings & permits (or the money Apple loses refurbishing & selling computers at a substantial discount) is completely irrelevant, right? As long as this guy is able to skirt the rules to get his pie & eat it too, everything is wonderful. Thankfully the poor fella won't have to go without buying a laptop for a whole two weeks!

So congratulations, if you ever try to buy something and wonder why the price is so high, refer back to this thread and remember that you specifically WANT it to be high cause god forbid that another entitled jackass loses the ability to screw the system while staying inside the rules. Welcome to America, where you can have whatever you want as long as you don't mind screwing the next guy out of it! BTW, does anyone here remember the mortgage crisis that heavily contributed to the collapse of our economy? Yeah, most of that was inside the rules too so I guess nobody here minds too much about all the people who lost their houses and the CEOs getting multi-million dollar bonuses, right? After all, if it's in the rules, it must be ethical.

Amazing you got all that from "Apple is making a killing".

To the OP. Buy it now. Right before you buy the other one, go to the Apple Store and tell them you want to take advantage of the no tax by ordering it online. I bet they'll let you return it and they won't get on a high horse about you being unethical and contributing to American greed.

dacapo
Jul 24, 2011, 05:51 PM
I suppose no one can stop you from returning it within the 14 day window and then buying an entirely new MBA on tax free weekend.

However, I believe most state laws are written not to allow retailers to modify the date of sale to circumvent this sort of behavior. So, at minimum, you will have to wipe your machine clean and then return it; I don't think you'll have much luck just asking for a credit in the amount of the difference.

Again, I'm not sure about how the tax free weekend statute in your state is written, but in my state, it's written to prevent backdating or future-dating, etc. (And is considered a tax evasion felony.)

I'd say just wait until Tax Free weekend and then buy it. You'll pat yourself on the back for having been patient and smart. And it'll be completely ethical and completely legal. As they say, learning to wait will build your character, if nothing else.

TC25
Jul 24, 2011, 06:31 PM
You guys say its unethical, but that is not an issue for me.

It never is for people with no ethics. But you're 'a good guy' that no one can trust. :rolleyes:

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 06:54 PM
Wow this thread took off.

Anyways, again, I just wanted to know if it would be possible to do this.

I admitted from the beginning that it was being a bit unethical (considering my topic title) but I would say it doesn't even come close to stealing thousands from a bank lol.

I just want to clear one thing up though. The only thing I am doing wrong is making Apple sell a refurbished unit. That is all.

I am not taking any money from the community, since either way, SC offers a tax free weekend and I am going to take advantage of that.

I understand that this may be a little bit unethical, but jesus you guys are acting like I am planning on going to the Apple store and stealing the laptop from the first person that walks out with one. Instead, I am just take advantage of both Apple's and my state's policies.

nebulos
Jul 24, 2011, 07:04 PM
i don't think it is unethical at all

and yes, the very fact that they have billions and i don't is why its all right.

if you are trying to argue this is unethical... You don't know much about ethics.

i admitted from the beginning that it was being a bit unethical

i understand that this may be a little bit unethical

.

i'll use the money i save to donate to charity

bs.

You guys can continue giving thousands of dollars to Apple Corporation instead of doing the most "ethical" thing and donating to charity.

an appropriate response might get me kicked off the forum. fill in the blanks.

Dark Void
Jul 24, 2011, 07:07 PM
You're trying to be greedy in saying that you want it now and grimy at the same time by not wanting to pay tax at that same time when it is required.

Keep the one you paid tax on if you want it now.

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 07:37 PM
Lol yeah that was my bad.

Still though, I just didn't think it was even close to as unethical as you guys were making it sound, and I guess I kind of began to play devil's advocate. Whatever.

It may be a bit unethical, but it does good too.

Bad:
Apple has to sell a refurbished product

Good:
Someone gets an almost new MBA for a discounted price
I get to start learning how to use a Mac (1st one)
If I am not satisfied, I can still take advantage of tax-free weekend on another computer

Neutral:
Tax-free weekend is established by the state. I am not harming the community.
The return policy is established by Apple. I can return it for the smallest problem and they are perfectly happy with it.

From a utilitarian standpoint, I win. Yes that is ethics. Yes some people believe that. It is all relative really.

Also, just an FYI, I have been calling Apple and the local Apple store to ask them, and they don't even come close to being as dramatic as you all.

Kyllle
Jul 24, 2011, 07:46 PM
so taking advantage of a tax free weekend is screwing the state? OP you could buy the laptop and than go back within the 14 days and just ask apple to re ring the same item up. Meaning they could return it and resell the SAME unit, and that saves you the tax. Than your not screwing anyone. Not the state or apple. The state doesn't care about what you spend on a tax free weekend. THEY WANT YOU TO SPEND ON A TAX FREE WEEKEND.

Exactly. If you really want to be "ethical" (although I think what you plan on doing is perfectly fine and Apple knows that people do this), just bring it back on the tax free weekend and tell them you want to take advantage of the no-tax deal. They should be able to ring it back up and credit you back the $100 or so that you lost from tax. This way Steve doesn't lose money, and all you're doing is taking advantage of the state's policy, which they want you to do.


You are acting as if this is stealing $100 from a multibillion dollar company. That's not true. You are stealing $100 from your local schools, road crews, and emergency services. Yeah, your state is a multibillion dollar organization, too, but they are hurting for literally every penny right now. There's a reason why only a few states offer a tax-free holiday.

As for Apple, you are stealing far more than $100. If they have to sell something as 'refurbished', that is a 20%-25% drop in value.


Oh yeah, like any government program will benefit from $100. Give $100 to a huge company/government, it will make absolutely no difference. Give $100 to an average American, they will be able to pay off a bill or go out for a nice dinner. Give $100 to an average person in a third world country, and they could buy food and water for months. I'm not saying you should donate the money or anything, just pointing out that $100 can make a huge difference in someone's life, or absolutely no difference at all. By keeping the money for yourself, assuming you are the average American here, you will benefit more than Apple/your state, which is why I think you should go for it.

Who cares if Apple looses a few $100, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. By the way, they would sell his MBA for about 10% off, 15% in a few months, not "20-25%." It's a brand new product, they don't need to discount it to sell it; 10% is already more than enough.

docgerrard
Jul 24, 2011, 07:51 PM
Thanks!

I am going to call the local apple store tomorrow to make sure they will be able to help me out. Then I'll make the purchase!

I might call Best Buy and see if they would also be able to just rering it. We will see though.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 10:27 AM
Well guys, in the end I decided not to do it.

Not because I had some epiphany and realized I was being a horrible person. It is just not worth the effort, regardless of the drive.

Hopefully the Mac learning curve isn't too much to overcome.

Also, one of my main concerns was not being in town on tax-free weekend, but my dad was nice enough to say he would pick it up for me :)

nvcplus
Jul 25, 2011, 02:39 PM
You do realize that tax is a percentage of the total sale right? So if he buys a more expensive MBA he's going to pay more taxes. A 1400 purchase here gets you $136.50 in taxes.

That said, yeah, just wait.

Yes, I realize that, thanks for the lesson.

I have 13" ultimate and my tax was $90 as stated.

HENCE "WHERE DO YOU LIVE", not "how do taxes work".

nvcplus
Jul 25, 2011, 02:41 PM
Well guys, in the end I decided not to do it.

Not because I had some epiphany and realized I was being a horrible person. It is just not worth the effort, regardless of the drive.

Hopefully the Mac learning curve isn't too much to overcome.

Also, one of my main concerns was not being in town on tax-free weekend, but my dad was nice enough to say he would pick it up for me :)

Good for you. Or not.

How come you're buying a top of the line computer if $100 is going to make or break you?

Go buy a $500 Dell and be done with it.

darngooddesign
Jul 25, 2011, 02:43 PM
Good for you. Or not.

How come you're buying a top of the line computer if $100 is going to make or break you?

Go buy a $500 Dell and be done with it.

$100 won't break me, but if I have the chance to save it I will.

Dagless
Jul 25, 2011, 02:50 PM
Sure, go for it. I wouldn't cheap a local company with that system but a huge behemoth like Apple? I wouldn't lose sleep.

Apple OC
Jul 25, 2011, 02:52 PM
Well guys, in the end I decided not to do it.

Not because I had some epiphany and realized I was being a horrible person. It is just not worth the effort, regardless of the drive.

Hopefully the Mac learning curve isn't too much to overcome.

Also, one of my main concerns was not being in town on tax-free weekend, but my dad was nice enough to say he would pick it up for me :)

exactly what I thought ... what is the point?

TC25
Jul 25, 2011, 05:51 PM
Sure, go for it. I wouldn't cheap a local company with that system but a huge behemoth like Apple? I wouldn't lose sleep.

You and the OP, two people in this thread who have no ethics, no morals and no clue about economics or who actually ends up paying for your dishonesty.

zbarvian
Jul 25, 2011, 06:20 PM
How is this unethical? It's just taking advantage of what the system is offering.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 06:31 PM
Good for you. Or not.

How come you're buying a top of the line computer if $100 is going to make or break you?

Go buy a $500 Dell and be done with it.

if you really mean this, there really is nothing more i have to say than... you are a complete idiot.

You and the OP, two people in this thread who have no ethics, no morals and no clue about economics or who actually ends up paying for your dishonesty.

Apple, a multibillion dollar corporation does. And who benefits from my dishonesty? Me, and another lucky fellow who gets an almost new refurbished system.

People always joke about apple fanboys who would do inappropriate things to steve jobs on command... I always thought that was just bitter nerds lashing out against the success of Apple. You proved me wrong.

Still, I have already conceded that some people may view this as unethical, although I can make arguments either way.

PDFierro
Jul 25, 2011, 06:33 PM
The other thing is it took you this long to decide it wouldn't even be worth it.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 06:37 PM
How is this unethical? It's just taking advantage of what the system is offering.

its unethical because poor little Apple has to sell a product at 10% of retail

hey, but lets just ignore the fact that Apple has a profit margin of between 28% and 37% on the airs (last generation, but i'm sure it is similar)

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9192618/MacBook_Air_more_profitable_than_other_Apple_laptops_says_analyst

The other thing is it took you this long to decide it wouldn't even be worth it.

... so what? the main reason it wouldn't be worth it is because i have confirmed that I will be out of town during tax-free weekend and I would have to ask someone to go to the store for me.

TC25
Jul 25, 2011, 06:48 PM
Apple, a multibillion dollar corporation does.
Thanks for proving you don't have a clue.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 06:50 PM
Thanks for proving you don't have a clue.

Thanks for providing another useless comment with no substance at all, rather than actually replying to the points I have been making.

Yes, you have every clue in the world.

EDIT:

Quick google search.

http://www.masslive.com/technology/index.ssf/2010/05/apple_pulls_ahead_of_microsoft.html

$227.1 Billion, over a year ago.

I really am a crappy person for making them sell a product for 10% less then retail, when the profit margin is already almost 30% initially. I'm sure that will put a huge dent in that $227.1 billion.

TC25
Jul 25, 2011, 06:58 PM
Thanks for providing another useless comment with no substance at all, rather than actually replying to the points I have been making.

Self serving rationalization deleted.

Corporations are a legal creation. When their costs are driven up by dishonest people, or for any other reason, their customers pay the price. Wise up.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 07:01 PM
Corporations are a legal creation. When their costs are driven up by dishonest people, or for any other reason, their customers pay the price. Wise up.

Well thats not very ethical of Apple, is it?

Thats not fair that if too many customers take advantage of clearly written policies, those very customers will pay for it.

TC25
Jul 25, 2011, 07:05 PM
Well thats not very ethical of Apple, is it?

Thats not fair that if too many customers take advantage of clearly written policies, those very customers will pay for it.

Customers ALWAYS pay for the cost of ANY company doing business. What, you think companies are in business to lose money? If you don't like the price, don't buy the product. Simple concept to grasp.

You have no desire to learn anything. All you want to do is rationalize your dishonesty.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 07:09 PM
Customers ALWAYS pay for the cost of ANY company doing business. What, you think companies are in business to lose money? If you don't like the price, don't buy the product. Simple concept to grasp.

You have no desire to learn anything. All you want to do is rationalize your dishonesty.

Well in most cases that makes sense. But when there is already a 30% profit margin on a product, there is no need for that.

After all of those links I have posted for you, you are absolutely out of your mind if you think Apple even comes close to losing money for doing this, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND.

Also, please get it out of your head that I am somehow cheating Apple. Their policy clearly states that if I am in any way unsatisfied with my product, I can return it within 14 days.

EDIT: We don't have to keep doing this if you want. I understand that you may think this is unethical, and I am completely fine with that. It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to as bad as you are making it out to be though.

bigp9998
Jul 25, 2011, 07:31 PM
Well in most cases that makes sense. But when there is already a 30% profit margin on a product, there is no need for that.

After all of those links I have posted for you, you are absolutely out of your mind if you think Apple even comes close to losing money for doing this, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND.

Also, please get it out of your head that I am somehow cheating Apple. Their policy clearly states that if I am in any way unsatisfied with my product, I can return it within 14 days.

EDIT: We don't have to keep doing this if you want. I understand that you may think this is unethical, and I am completely fine with that. It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to as bad as you are making it out to be though.

Enough with the pathetic excuses. You're right, it's not the end of the world. Yes, you're following the policy, but you're also a money-grubbing weasel who is increasing the cost of the product for the rest of us. Not wanting to pay tax does not mean you are unsatisfied with the product. I'm not sure who taught you that taking unjustly is okay as long as the person you are taking from has more money than you, but I think you need a new moral compass.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 08:03 PM
enough with the pathetic excuses. You're right, it's not the end of the world. Yes, you're following the policy, but you're also a money-grubbing weasel who is increasing the cost of the product for the rest of us. Not wanting to pay tax does not mean you are unsatisfied with the product. I'm not sure who taught you that taking unjustly is okay as long as the person you are taking from has more money than you, but i think you need a new moral compass.

u mad?

s.hasan546
Jul 25, 2011, 08:23 PM
Enough with the pathetic excuses. You're right, it's not the end of the world. Yes, you're following the policy, but you're also a money-grubbing weasel who is increasing the cost of the product for the rest of us. Not wanting to pay tax does not mean you are unsatisfied with the product. I'm not sure who taught you that taking unjustly is okay as long as the person you are taking from has more money than you, but I think you need a new moral compass.

omfg can you stop with your sanctimonious crap? companies build this into the financial calculations they use for price setting. For example, best buy gives me 45 days to return anything, which technically costs them more money, however, i spend so much with them it makes up for it. Apple does the same thing. They understand people buy apple products for their product quality and customer service. Not having a return policy like this would hurt Apple more than it would help. Also Ive seen genius's replace shattered iPhone's for free. Technically your paying for this too with higher prices. OMFG they should stop doing this too. Anyone who got a free repair from Apple is EVILLLL!!! :rolleyes:

Also taking advantage of a tax free weekend isn't unjust, it's actually stupid to even mention that it is "unjust", States do this for a reason.

snberk103
Jul 25, 2011, 08:36 PM
Well in most cases that makes sense. But when there is already a 30% profit margin on a product, there is no need for that.
....
Also, please get it out of your head that I am somehow cheating Apple. Their policy clearly states that if I am in any way unsatisfied with my product, I can return it within 14 days.

....

You know, docgerrard - I actually backed you up several pages ago. You are correct that you are using existing policies, and you are not deceiving anyone to take advantage of them.

But you shoulda just stopped there. Because you then keep justifying yourself with (to paraphrase) 'if it was unethical, it doesn't matter because Apple is so hugely profitable'. And that is where we disagree. Unethical is unethical. It is just as bad to steal from Walmart as from the local corner store (and to be clear - I don't think you are stealing in this case).

But I think that is where you are getting a lot of pushback from other posters, because you are implying (if not actually saying it) that is OK to steal from Apple due to their profits - but that you are not stealing in this case. This may not be what you are trying to say... but that is the attitude that is coming across.

omfg can you stop with your sanctimonious crap? companies build this into the financial calculations they use for price setting. For example, best buy gives me 45 days to return anything, which technically costs them more money, however, i spend so much with them it makes up for it. Apple does the same thing. They understand people buy apple products for their product quality and customer service. Not having a return policy like this would hurt Apple more than it would help. Also Ive seen genius's replace shattered iPhone's for free. Technically your paying for this too with higher prices. OMFG they should stop doing this too. Anyone who got a free repair from Apple is EVILLLL!!! :rolleyes:

Also taking advantage of a tax free weekend isn't unjust, it's actually stupid to even mention that it is "unjust", States do this for a reason.

I said that too, earlier... though perhaps with a little less, um "drama". :D

But you are absolutely correct. Companies take a hit on a few, maybe not quite justified, returns in order to sell way way more units that never get returned. Heck some companies sell stuff at a loss just to get customers into the store. It's why the milk is at the very far back corner of the grocery store....

s.hasan546
Jul 25, 2011, 08:49 PM
I said that too, earlier... though perhaps with a little less, um "drama". :D

But you are absolutely correct. Companies take a hit on a few, maybe not quite justified, returns in order to sell way way more units that never get returned. Heck some companies sell stuff at a loss just to get customers into the store. It's why the milk is at the very far back corner of the grocery store....

lol sorry about the drama, maybe i got a little carried away :D.

ALso i agree too. Companies like Walmart showed how selling a few things at a loss generate massive amounts of business. I remember talking to a walmart manager who mentioned how selling the iPhone 4 for $147 in stores only more than tripled their iPhones sales (losing money on these), however, a lot of these customers also bought 20 other things while waiting for the iPhone to activate; etc.

bigp9998
Jul 25, 2011, 08:56 PM
omfg can you stop with your sanctimonious crap? companies build this into the financial calculations they use for price setting. For example, best buy gives me 45 days to return anything, which technically costs them more money, however, i spend so much with them it makes up for it. Apple does the same thing. They understand people buy apple products for their product quality and customer service. Not having a return policy like this would hurt Apple more than it would help. Also Ive seen genius's replace shattered iPhone's for free. Technically your paying for this too with higher prices. OMFG they should stop doing this too. Anyone who got a free repair from Apple is EVILLLL!!! :rolleyes:

Also taking advantage of a tax free weekend isn't unjust, it's actually stupid to even mention that it is "unjust", States do this for a reason.

If you read my responses throughout the thread, you'll notice that I have no problem with taking advantage of the tax-free weekend. None whatsoever. The state gov't puts the policy in place to encourage sales. What I have a problem with is buying a computer two weeks ahead of the tax-free weekend with the preconceived intention of returning it 2 weeks later and buying the exact same model again just to avoid the tax that you could have avoided in the first place by simply waiting two weeks. If you want the computer now, buy it now. If you want the tax-free computer, wait 2 weeks. It's not difficult.

docgerrard
Jul 25, 2011, 09:05 PM
You know, docgerrard - I actually backed you up several pages ago. You are correct that you are using existing policies, and you are not deceiving anyone to take advantage of them.

But you shoulda just stopped there. Because you then keep justifying yourself with (to paraphrase) 'if it was unethical, it doesn't matter because Apple is so hugely profitable'. And that is where we disagree. Unethical is unethical. It is just as bad to steal from Walmart as from the local corner store (and to be clear - I don't think you are stealing in this case).

But I think that is where you are getting a lot of pushback from other posters, because you are implying (if not actually saying it) that is OK to steal from Apple due to their profits - but that you are not stealing in this case. This may not be what you are trying to say... but that is the attitude that is coming across.


i guess i also got a bit carried away. it definitely is unethical to steal from walmart, apple and the local corner shop. however, obviously things are not all black and white and there are different degrees of being unethical (or ethical) and stealing from apple is definitely not as unethical as stealing from the local shop. i can go into detail on justifying this if you want.

regardless, i don't think i am stealing, something we both agree with :)

well i should say i don't think i would have been stealing, since i'm not doing this anymore lol

snberk103
Jul 25, 2011, 11:59 PM
i guess i also got a bit carried away. it definitely is unethical to steal from walmart, apple and the local corner shop. however, obviously things are not all black and white and there are different degrees of being unethical (or ethical) and stealing from apple is definitely not as unethical as stealing from the local shop. ...

And that is where we disagree. Unethical is unethical. Or as my grandmother used to say (when she wasn't talking about the Brooklyn bridge)... 'If it doesn't belong to you, it belongs to somebody else.'

In this case you are clearly within the guidelines (White?) .... but if you were not within the guidelines, then it makes no difference whether it was the corner store or Apple. (Black?) Ethics is entirely personal, and the wealth of the "victim" has nothing to do with it. One day you hopefully realize that.... but it takes a few years, admittedly.

iluvmacmre
Aug 4, 2011, 01:45 PM
I understand why you did it. Only thing you have to do is take your receipt to the Apple Store and they will credit your account with the taxes that you previously paid as long as it is within the 14 days. I already checked.

harpyeagle
Aug 4, 2011, 02:04 PM
I understand why you did it. Only thing you have to do is take your receipt to the Apple Store and they will credit your account with the taxes that you previously paid as long as it is within the 14 days. I already checked.

THIS ...would have served the OP better if he took some extra effort to do this himself by calling the seller if his intention was saving extra bucks.

I bought mine from BestBuy and plan to do exactly this.

mayassa
Aug 19, 2011, 02:10 PM
No big deal buy it return it tell them you want to buy the same one back. If it has the right ssd and screen. If not get a different one. No one can tell you that your being sneaky after half these people returned there laptops for a different drive since they both work.

bigdrizzle13
Aug 19, 2011, 05:11 PM
For the record, I owned roughly 10 different macbook air 13 inch laptops for around 110 days, returned them every 11-13 days, and bought another one either in that same trip or the next day. Not one of them every had any problems, and apple happily took all of them back, and it was usually even the same clerk who helped with the return process. I told them plainly, "It's an awesome computer, I'm just not sure if I want to keep it yet. I plan to buy another one very shortly." They would respond with "No problem!". I ever asked several times, "Aren't you guys going losing a lot of money every time I do this?" and they usually responded with "Apple has plenty of money, they don't need more money, but they do need more satisfied customers."

Apple DOES NOT care if you do this type of thing. I used the same CC and Apple ID every time, so they could easily have cut me off if they wanted. Ultimately, in the small chance that I end up keeping (or forgetting to return) #10 or #100, they have just gained a customer who will ultimately spend a lot more on them in the future (in software, accessories, and future computer purchases). And that totally worked on me, I will give them more of my money in the future. Also, Best Buy has a 30 day no questions asked policy on most stuff and 14 days on things like laptops (or if you are a platinum rewards member like me, its 45 days on everything). If you frequent BestBuy as much as I do, you could easily keep a product for a year and never pay for it. (and yes, I have done that before).

If you want to say "You shouldn't do this, this is unethical" keep in mind that I am not stealing from anyone, hurting anyone, or making anyone's life worse. Maybe best buy loses money off me personally because I return stuff too often, but they gain a lot more by allowing for this system (like getting me in their store every few weeks to look at all the new stuff, getting advertising on forums like this, keeping me loyal if I do need to buy and keep a product, and plenty of other things) If their stuff is too expensive because "I drive prices up by returning stuff a lot" then quit complaining and don't shop at apple or bestbuy. Go buy from a store that has lower prices because they don't allow returns. If no such store exists, sit down and think about why that is...

Can't wait to hear some feedback about this.


EDIT:
And whoever said it was "unethical" to want to return a laptop to save $140 dollars from tax, you are either stupidly insane or insanely stupid.

eyespii
Aug 19, 2011, 05:22 PM
For the record, I owned roughly 10 different macbook air 13 inch laptops for around 110 days, returned them every 11-13 days, and bought another one either in that same trip or the next day. Not one of them every had any problems, and apple happily took all of them back, and it was usually even the same clerk who helped with the return process. I told them plainly, "It's an awesome computer, I'm just not sure if I want to keep it yet. I plan to buy another one very shortly." They would respond with "No problem!". I ever asked several times, "Aren't you guys going losing a lot of money every time I do this?" and they usually responded with "Apple has plenty of money, they don't need more money, but they do need more satisfied customers."

Apple DOES NOT care if you do this type of thing. I used the same CC and Apple ID every time, so they could easily have cut me off if they wanted. Ultimately, in the small chance that I end up keeping (or forgetting to return) #10 or #100, they have just gained a customer who will ultimately spend a lot more on them in the future (in software, accessories, and future computer purchases). And that totally worked on me, I will give them more of my money in the future. Also, Best Buy has a 30 day no questions asked policy on most stuff and 14 days on things like laptops (or if you are a platinum rewards member like me, its 45 days on everything). If you frequent BestBuy as much as I do, you could easily keep a product for a year and never pay for it. (and yes, I have done that before).

If you want to say "You shouldn't do this, this is unethical" keep in mind that I am not stealing from anyone, hurting anyone, or making anyone's life worse. Maybe best buy loses money off me personally because I return stuff too often, but they gain a lot more by allowing for this system (like getting me in their store every few weeks to look at all the new stuff, getting advertising on forums like this, keeping me loyal if I do need to buy and keep a product, and plenty of other things) If their stuff is too expensive because "I drive prices up by returning stuff a lot" then quit complaining and don't shop at apple or bestbuy. Go buy from a store that has lower prices because they don't allow returns. If no such store exists, sit down and think about why that is...

Can't wait to hear some feedback about this.


EDIT:
And whoever said it was "unethical" to want to return a laptop to save $140 dollars from tax, you are either stupidly insane or insanely stupid.

While you most certainly are not breaking any laws of any kind, I would say it's time to move out of mom's basement and get a real job. I can't imagine that any productive member of society would feel ok about doing this and would have the time and energy for it too.

Most people I know would be downright embarrassed to do what you do, yet you seem to be quite proud of yourself for clearly abusing the system.

bigdrizzle13
Aug 19, 2011, 05:37 PM
While you most certainly are not breaking any laws of any kind, I would say it's time to move out of mom's basement and get a real job. I can't imagine that any productive member of society would feel ok about doing this and would have the time and energy for it too.

Most people I know would be downright embarrassed to do what you do, yet you seem to be quite proud of yourself for clearly abusing the system.


That is fine with me, I have no problem if that is your (or "a lot of people you know"'s) opinion of me, but why would you call it "abusing" the system? You think a company as large as Apple or BB is going to allow for themselves to get "abused" on a policy that is present on every sale? They are not that dumb. In fact, because they have these policies is THE REASON I currently own and paid for a macbook air (and 4 $1000+ televisions from Best Buy), and if it weren't for me being able to return a lot of products, Apple and Best Buy would be worse off (and so would you if you buy stuff from them).

eyespii
Aug 19, 2011, 06:06 PM
That is fine with me, I have no problem if that is your (or "a lot of people you know"'s) opinion of me, but why would you call it "abusing" the system? You think a company as large as Apple or BB is going to allow for themselves to get "abused" on a policy that is present on every sale? They are not that dumb. In fact, because they have these policies are THE REASON I currently own and paid for a macbook air (and 4 $1000+ televisions from Best Buy), and if it weren't for me being able to return a lot of products, Apple and Best Buy would be worse off (and so would you if you buy stuff from them).

I'd like to know what you'd consider abusing the system if you think what you're doing doesn't count. To me, it means that you're using a policy for reasons other than the ones it was clearly designed for. They want you to know in advance that you can bring your purchase back if youre not satisfied, because they know you're more likely to buy something that way. It was NOT designed as a way for people to "rent" their products for free.

What would happen if more people did what you do? Remember costco's infamous unlimited return policy when it used to apply to computers? Why do you think that doesn't exist any more? Because it was being abused, and they were most likely losing money because of it.

rosemary1
Aug 19, 2011, 06:14 PM
The fact that the OP posted this in the first place is proof enough that what he describes is unethical and abuses the system. If that weren't the case, he'd have a clean conscious and wouldn't go looking for justification and approval from strangers on the Internet.

You're going to do what you want anyways, so you might as well just go and do it.

bigdrizzle13
Aug 19, 2011, 06:22 PM
I'd like to know what you'd consider abusing the system if you think what you're doing doesn't count. To me, it means that you're using a policy for reasons other than the ones it was clearly designed for. They want you to know in advance that you can bring your purchase back if youre not satisfied, because they know you're more likely to buy something that way. It was NOT designed as a way for people to "rent" their products for free.

What would happen if more people did what you do? Remember costco's infamous unlimited return policy when it used to apply to computers? Why do you think that doesn't exist any more? Because it was being abused, and they were most likely losing money because of it.

I do not know how you could abuse the system, because some very smart people designed the system such that it will ultimately make them money, which it does, even in extreme cases like mine. Perhaps lying about defects of products (which is how a lot of people take advantage of warranties before they expire, but I do not do that because lying is unethical) would be a way to exploit the system, but that's not really a return policy issue. (On a side note, Apple does track warranty fulfillment for customers, and I THINK they are more hesitant to fix your product if you seem to complain about ticky tacky things too much, but I don't know this for sure) I ALWAYS make it obvious that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the product when I return it and that I will probably just buy it again. Never has anyone given me any trouble for this, including managers who are probably the main person responsible for making their branch profitable. If they wanted to prevent multiple returns like we are discussing, they would put a clause into the return policy disallowing the return of the same product on the same CC (or Apple ID, or BB rewards zone number) more than say 3 times (if it has no defect). The policy allows for EXACTLY what i do because they know that the flexibility given to extreme cases like me DOES make them money. They want you to be happy, Apple especially makes a living on this goal, and this is one way they can make a customer like me happy while still making money.

I think (and that doesn't at all mean that you have to) that the system was in fact designed to allow this. Why would they not allow this if it makes them money? There is no negatives for anyone involved.

EDIT:

If more people did this, they would make more money, because they make money off me. Of course with any policy like this they will make money off some people and lose money off others, but the positives should out weigh the negatives, and I believe they do. If they did not, they would probably change their policy. If too many people tried to do this and those people were losing them money (not me), then they would change the policy. I do not know of the costco thing you are talking about.

Itakou
Aug 19, 2011, 07:29 PM
You guys don't have restocking fees in the US? damn I'm jealous.

eyespii
Aug 19, 2011, 07:38 PM
I do not know how you could abuse the system, because some very smart people designed the system such that it will ultimately make them money, which it does, even in extreme cases like mine. Perhaps lying about defects of products (which is how a lot of people take advantage of warranties before they expire, but I do not do that because lying is unethical) would be a way to exploit the system, but that's not really a return policy issue. (On a side note, Apple does track warranty fulfillment for customers, and I THINK they are more hesitant to fix your product if you seem to complain about ticky tacky things too much, but I don't know this for sure) I ALWAYS make it obvious that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the product when I return it and that I will probably just buy it again. Never has anyone given me any trouble for this, including managers who are probably the main person responsible for making their branch profitable. If they wanted to prevent multiple returns like we are discussing, they would put a clause into the return policy disallowing the return of the same product on the same CC (or Apple ID, or BB rewards zone number) more than say 3 times (if it has no defect). The policy allows for EXACTLY what i do because they know that the flexibility given to extreme cases like me DOES make them money. They want you to be happy, Apple especially makes a living on this goal, and this is one way they can make a customer like me happy while still making money.

I think (and that doesn't at all mean that you have to) that the system was in fact designed to allow this. Why would they not allow this if it makes them money? There is no negatives for anyone involved.

EDIT:

If more people did this, they would make more money, because they make money off me. Of course with any policy like this they will make money off some people and lose money off others, but the positives should out weigh the negatives, and I believe they do. If they did not, they would probably change their policy. If too many people tried to do this and those people were losing them money (not me), then they would change the policy. I do not know of the costco thing you are talking about.

Most people don't do what you do NOT because it isn't ethical or because they don't want to "abuse" the system, but because it's a pain in the ass to do. if they did, the return policy would definitely go away, as evidenced by what happened to costco's policy. If you're not familiar with it, it allowed anyone to return a computer for a full refund 6 months after purchase, and tvs and other electronics could be returned At any time. Sure, the policy allowed you to do it, but it clearly was not designed for people to "rent" computers and other big ticket items for free.

http://consumerist.com/2007/02/costco-million-lost-spurred-return-policy-rip.html

How do you know they definitely make money off of you? Without having specifics, I'd be willing to bet that youre one of the ones they lose money on. You have to admit that what you do is extreme - most cant be bothered by the hassle. Think about it - each returned laptop probably costs them a few hundred dollars to process, inspect, and refurbish, plus they have to sell the item at a discount. if you returned ten laptops in a year, your returns have now cost them maybe a couple thousand? Even if you end up buying one laptop during the year, they're still in the red.

None of that really matters though - what you're doing is clearly allowed by the return policy. I'm just amazed that you would go so far as to buy and return a laptop every 14 days for a whole year. Don't you have better things to do with your time?

vitzr
Aug 19, 2011, 07:43 PM
obviously this is an abuse of the return policy.

And just one more factor that increases Mac prices. The obscene amount of returns Apple deals with due to "entitled" customers is simply over the top.

bigdrizzle13
Aug 19, 2011, 08:30 PM
Most people don't do what you do NOT because it isn't ethical or because they don't want to "abuse" the system, but because it's a pain in the ass to do. if they did, the return policy would definitely go away, as evidenced by what happened to costco's policy. If you're not familiar with it, it allowed anyone to return a computer for a full refund 6 months after purchase, and tvs and other electronics could be returned At any time. Sure, the policy allowed you to do it, but it clearly was not designed for people to "rent" computers and other big ticket items for free.

http://consumerist.com/2007/02/costco-million-lost-spurred-return-policy-rip.html

How do you know they definitely make money off of you? Without having specifics, I'd be willing to bet that youre one of the ones they lose money on. You have to admit that what you do is extreme - most cant be bothered by the hassle. Think about it - each returned laptop probably costs them a few hundred dollars to process, inspect, and refurbish, plus they have to sell the item at a discount. if you returned ten laptops in a year, your returns have now cost them maybe a couple thousand? Even if you end up buying one laptop during the year, they're still in the red.

None of that really matters though - what you're doing is clearly allowed by the return policy. I'm just amazed that you would go so far as to buy and return a laptop every 14 days for a whole year. Don't you have better things to do with your time?

I appreciate the response, and your non-hostile tone, most people can't refrain on forums like this.

It only takes a few minutes to return an item, especially if its on the way for another errand or in between work and home. The thing is, they aren't JUST getting me to buy one laptop a year. They are getting us to talk about their products, they are getting me into their store, they are getting my loyalty. If Apple didn't have this policy, i would never have bought the macbook air to try out Mac (I was a windows user all my life). I loved it SO much that I am now without a doubt an apple customer for life, and not just in the laptop industry, apple TV (and therefore Itunes crap), mice, keyboards, iPods and phones, even Ipads. And more than likely, my friends and family will come asking me for advice about computers, as probably the case with most of the people on these forums, and I will recommend Apple with high praise. I cannot say for sure that they are making money off me, but I do know that consumer loyalty is worth A LOT to any company (especially Apple), probably more than a few thousand dollars. At the normal rate I've been spending money on computers, I will give apple SO much more than what they spent refurbishing a few laptops. Not every case is like mine, but if for every one of me, there are 3 people that do return things very often and don't ultimately give Apple any money, Apple still wins.

To everyone else:

People, if you really think that returns are what are making your Apple laptop more expensive than a windows laptop, think again. And how am I "entitled" if i am following a policy exactly as it reads... Entitled would involving breaking a law and thinking I should not be punished for it. And someone posted that just because this thread was created means that it is "unethical to return a laptop", you clearly don't understand what a forum is for...

mayassa
Aug 19, 2011, 10:22 PM
For the record, I owned roughly 10 different macbook air 13 inch laptops for around 110 days, returned them every 11-13 days, and bought another one either in that same trip or the next day. Not one of them every had any problems, and apple happily took all of them back, and it was usually even the same clerk who helped with the return process. I told them plainly, "It's an awesome computer, I'm just not sure if I want to keep it yet. I plan to buy another one very shortly." They would respond with "No problem!". I ever asked several times, "Aren't you guys going losing a lot of money every time I do this?" and they usually responded with "Apple has plenty of money, they don't need more money, but they do need more satisfied customers."

Apple DOES NOT care if you do this type of thing. I used the same CC and Apple ID every time, so they could easily have cut me off if they wanted. Ultimately, in the small chance that I end up keeping (or forgetting to return) #10 or #100, they have just gained a customer who will ultimately spend a lot more on them in the future (in software, accessories, and future computer purchases). And that totally worked on me, I will give them more of my money in the future. Also, Best Buy has a 30 day no questions asked policy on most stuff and 14 days on things like laptops (or if you are a platinum rewards member like me, its 45 days on everything). If you frequent BestBuy as much as I do, you could easily keep a product for a year and never pay for it. (and yes, I have done that before).

If you want to say "You shouldn't do this, this is unethical" keep in mind that I am not stealing from anyone, hurting anyone, or making anyone's life worse. Maybe best buy loses money off me personally because I return stuff too often, but they gain a lot more by allowing for this system (like getting me in their store every few weeks to look at all the new stuff, getting advertising on forums like this, keeping me loyal if I do need to buy and keep a product, and plenty of other things) If their stuff is too expensive because "I drive prices up by returning stuff a lot" then quit complaining and don't shop at apple or bestbuy. Go buy from a store that has lower prices because they don't allow returns. If no such store exists, sit down and think about why that is...

Can't wait to hear some feedback about this.


EDIT:
And whoever said it was "unethical" to want to return a laptop to save $140 dollars from tax, you are either stupidly insane or insanely stupid.

This is a great way to keep your warranty up to date no apple care needed get a free tech refresh every year a new model.

KPOM
Aug 19, 2011, 11:12 PM
omfg can you stop with your sanctimonious crap? companies build this into the financial calculations they use for price setting. For example, best buy gives me 45 days to return anything, which technically costs them more money, however, i spend so much with them it makes up for it. Apple does the same thing. They understand people buy apple products for their product quality and customer service. Not having a return policy like this would hurt Apple more than it would help. Also Ive seen genius's replace shattered iPhone's for free. Technically your paying for this too with higher prices. OMFG they should stop doing this too. Anyone who got a free repair from Apple is EVILLLL!!! :rolleyes:

I think the distinction people are making is between using and abusing a generous customer policy. Apple offers a return policy because they know that people will be more likely to make a big purchase if they have some assurance that they can change their minds within a short time and not be out the money. I don't think they intended for people to use the policies to "rent" computers for free, or to buy and return identical models trying to find a particular screen or SSD.

I've benefitted from complimentary repairs, as well (most recently with my water-damaged 2010 MacBook Air), but I've never asked for or expected it. I've also been upgraded to first or business class on flights (again, never demanding or expecting it). Companies do things to win loyalty, but when people start "playing the system" companies change their behavior.

Also taking advantage of a tax free weekend isn't unjust, it's actually stupid to even mention that it is "unjust", States do this for a reason.

I'm with you here, but I'd also argue that this is rather silly public policy. Either have a sales tax or don't. All tax holidays do is shift buying patterns around, and they usually benefit the wealthy more because they have the ability to delay or accelerate purchases as the case may be to take advantage of them. People living paycheck to paycheck don't have that luxury.