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View Full Version : How do I go back to the old saving functionality?




flarn2006
Jul 28, 2011, 02:32 AM
I'm used to Save meaning to update a file with the changes you made (and that only happening when I click Save), Save As meaning to save the changes I made in a new file, and quitting an application completely erasing my previous session, and prompting me whether or not to save. How do I make my Mac behave like this, without downgrading back to Snow Leopard?



harrisondavies
Jul 28, 2011, 02:46 AM
Why not embrace the new way of thinking? Save is soooooooo last year! We have Autosave and Versions now which is an even better technology.

One less step to consider when creating your media, all done for you in the background, and even revert to an older version should you wish to. If you accidentally pressed save in SL thinking you'd saved the correct text, and then closed your app, there was no way to get back the correct text.

That's why Lion is better, close the app, it saves automatically. It keeps a version for you as you change your data, and you can time-machine-like recover your data.

Go on, I dare you to stop trying to live in 2010 and embrace the new 2011 Lion way...

Oh BTW: Duplicate > Save

Icy1007
Jul 28, 2011, 02:51 AM
Why not embrace the new way of thinking? Save is soooooooo last year! We have Autosave and Versions now which is an even better technology.

One less step to consider when creating your media, all done for you in the background, and even revert to an older version should you wish to. If you accidentally pressed save in SL thinking you'd saved the correct text, and then closed your app, there was no way to get back the correct text.

That's why Lion is better, close the app, it saves automatically. It keeps a version for you as you change your data, and you can time-machine-like recover your data.

Go on, I dare you to stop trying to live in 2010 and embrace the new 2011 Lion way...

Oh BTW: Duplicate > Save

^this.

Versions and Autosave are way better than the old way of saving. I love being able to go "into the past" and restoring an older version of a document.

flarn2006
Jul 28, 2011, 02:54 AM
I still prefer the old way. How do I get it back?

Icy1007
Jul 28, 2011, 02:59 AM
I still prefer the old way. How do I get it back?

Do what all the other stubborn people on here are doing...downgrade to Snow Leopard.

Boo The Hamster
Jul 28, 2011, 03:02 AM
Autosave was one of the many reasons that Lion only lasted three days on my Macbook.

I played around, tried the new 'features', and realised that it was essentially Apple providing 'solutions' to problems that didn't exist in the first place.

Reverted back to Snow Leopard, and now everything works the way I want it to, rather than the way iOS (oops, I mean OS X) wants it to...

Rend It
Aug 3, 2011, 07:40 PM
Here's what I emailed Steve:

Dear Steve,

I recently purchased Mac OS X Lion and installed it on our three Macs. My wife stumbled on what to me seems like a huge oversight in usability in the new Versions feature.

She downloaded an editable pdf file (from Safari), which of course went straight to the downloads folder. She then began to edit the form in Preview, and after editing, she tried to save the file to our iDisk. She and I have used Macs for 8 years, and we both had trouble trying to do what amounts to a "Save As…" from within Preview. Apparently, we have to click on the File Menu, click Duplicate, wait for the duplicate animation to finish, and then click "Save…", which then opens a Finder dialog to save the duplicate file elsewhere.

I understand the motivation to remove "Save As" from the File Menu, but Lion has now added more steps to what used to be a simple process. I would like to suggest that "Duplicate As…" replace "Duplicate" in the File Menu. Most often, when one duplicates a file, it is with the intention of manually renaming it or moving it elsewhere.

As I see it, Duplicate, in its current form of simply adding "copy" to the file name, is redundant to the background versioning, so why have it at all? What is more, rather than helping us to not think about the file system, we are forced to deal with the file system directly in the current motif.

Any chance of implementing "Duplicate As…" or bringing back "Save As…" in a future Lion update? This seems to be my only gripe with Lion, which I otherwise love!


P.S., I know she could choose "Save File As…" in Safari, but I think the usability issue with "Duplicate" remains in other scenarios as well.

Remains to be seen if I hear from anyone. This is really my only gripe about Lion.

me_94501
Aug 3, 2011, 08:41 PM
Autosave and versions are a good idea in theory, and for the most part I've adapted to the change. But there are some issues with the current state of these features. Most notably:

-Not everything supports it yet: Save workflows are different depending on whether or not an app supports autosave. While this may be OK for a more advanced user who knows which apps do and don't support autosave, it could be confusing for more typical users. This should become less of an issue as time goes on and more apps support autosave, but for the time being, it's a serious consideration.

-It can be disruptive: I'm a heavy iWork user. iWork apps pop up a progress bar whenever a document is saved. While this is usually OK when you manually save a document, it also pops up when a document autosaves, which breaks my flow.

talmy
Aug 3, 2011, 09:13 PM
-It can be disruptive: I'm a heavy iWork user. iWork apps pop up a progress bar whenever a document is saved. While this is usually OK when you manually save a document, it also pops up when a document autosaves, which breaks my flow.

Submit this a a bug to Apple's feedback. Autosave is supposed to be happening in the background.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

MartiNZ
Aug 3, 2011, 09:51 PM
Autosave is the most destructive feature I've ever seen in an OS, much less a touted-as-saviour feature. Taking away this level of user control is a scary business indeed - and add to that that the process is not at all obvious, and only because I knew about it did I go looking for how to revert when unwanted changes were made without my permission ... it is a bad idea, through and through. And it kind of scares me that no one seems to have worked out how to fix it yet :eek:.

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 3, 2011, 10:03 PM
In System Preferences under General you can disable "Restore windows when quitting and reopening apps [sic]." This won't restore things to how they used to be, but it's a start.

I think the improvement will be useful for most people, but I'm having some adjustment issues. Sometimes I like to open up projects or files and muck around with them just to see what certain changes will do. Now I can't really continue to do that, right? It will save any changes I make regardless of if I tell it to save or not, right?

MartiNZ
Aug 3, 2011, 11:29 PM
Right - same with testing filters on photos, chopping up documents to reduce sizes for uploading, or for things like academic journal submission processes, jeez that'd be a scary one.

Either way it's an ugly process, as I see it you have to either duplicate every file right off the bat or remember to go back into the versions interface before you finish mucking around ... or trying to be productive - so for a time-saving feature it does a real good impression of making things take longer. I never even liked iPhoto's thing of duplicating files for every change - this is far more extreme.

talmy
Aug 3, 2011, 11:57 PM
Replying to the previous three posts:

If you muck around with a file and want to revert to what it was when you started, there is "Revert to saved..." in the File menu.

If you forget and exit instead, you can use Versions to revert back later.

Under the traditional method, if you make a mistake and save, you can't go back (well, there is always a backup copy if you have one!). And under the traditional method if you make a mistake and don't save, you lose all your edits.

It isn't as inefficient as iPhoto. In most cases what are saved are the differences between versions and the final version and not full documents at each step. In this regard it works much more like Aperture than iPhoto.

If there is a document you want to preserve, you lock it. Then it can't be altered, only a duplicate can.

Icy1007
Aug 4, 2011, 02:55 AM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 4: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

In System Preferences under General you can disable "Restore windows when quitting and reopening apps [sic]." This won't restore things to how they used to be, but it's a start.

I think the improvement will be useful for most people, but I'm having some adjustment issues. Sometimes I like to open up projects or files and muck around with them just to see what certain changes will do. Now I can't really continue to do that, right? It will save any changes I make regardless of if I tell it to save or not, right?

That option has nothing to do with versions or autosave. Every change you make to a document is saved in a separate version and all versions are kept for you to look through. Just click the down arrow next to the document name on the title bar.

paulsalter
Aug 4, 2011, 03:13 AM
I think the improvement will be useful for most people, but I'm having some adjustment issues. Sometimes I like to open up projects or files and muck around with them just to see what certain changes will do. Now I can't really continue to do that, right? It will save any changes I make regardless of if I tell it to save or not, right?

Exactly, I do similar

And having to revert to saved or go through versions to get the file back to how it was is a pita

CMD+Q - no i don't want to save, was so much easier

I dont trust some apps anymore, because one of these days I will make a change I didn't want to when messing about with things and forget to revert it back

I want choice over my files, not just have the system auto save everything

jc1350
Aug 4, 2011, 07:23 AM
I prefer "save as" as I really use it. I have a bunch of text files. Each file has 90% the same info; just one or 2 lines change. The files are for individual users who get them off a network share once I'm done.

I open the most resent one, change what needs to be changed, save with a different name via "save as."

The new way with "export" is going to be pain as there are now more hoops I have to jump through (open, export, open exported version). But, I guess as long as I no longer install Text Wrangler updates, I'll be ok.

I understand Apple's philosophy that computers should work for people, and that's fine when you add features/different ways to do something, but it doesn't always work well when you force users to use the new way when they already have an established sequence with the older way.

WE should be able to decide which method to use. There's no reason why we can't have save as AND versions at the same time.

EDIT: "duplicate" opens the file (at least in text edit) and the 'save' option lets you choose the name, so it looks like it won't be as bad as I suspected - assuming every app behaves the same way.

happyduck42
Aug 4, 2011, 07:50 AM
As I see it, Duplicate, in its current form of simply adding "copy" to the file name, is redundant to the background versioning, so why have it at all? What is more, rather than helping us to not think about the file system, we are forced to deal with the file system directly in the current motif.


Did you you try and close the duplicate? when I did this it gave me the option to save and rename the file where I wanted it.

Myself I would move it first or after the change; Save as or duplicate will just give me two copies that are out of sync.

talmy
Aug 4, 2011, 09:00 AM
Exactly, I do similar

And having to revert to saved or go through versions to get the file back to how it was is a pita

CMD+Q - no i don't want to save, was so much easier



Then assign a keyboard shortcut to "revert to saved". It's only one additional keystroke (newShortcut, enter, command-w instead of command-q command-d)

I prefer "save as" as I really use it. I have a bunch of text files. Each file has 90% the same info; just one or 2 lines change. The files are for individual users who get them off a network share once I'm done.

This is a example a place where document templates could be used, or the been-around-forever Stationery pad for applications that don't support document templates.

paulsalter
Aug 4, 2011, 09:06 AM
Then assign a keyboard shortcut to "revert to saved". It's only one additional keystroke (newShortcut, enter, command-w instead of command-q command-d)


Seems like a bit of an annoying way to do it

then I have to remember if I am in and app that uses the new autosave to use this shortcut to revert to saved and close app, while in every other app I can just CMD+Q and say no

we had consistency in the way apps functioned before, now we have this annoying thing where most apps work the same except for a few apple ones

JRoDDz
Aug 4, 2011, 09:22 AM
The new way of saving seems to be a pain. Why does Apple have to reinvent the wheel? A desktop computer is not an IOS tablet. It has a file system unlike the tablet.

talmy
Aug 4, 2011, 09:31 AM
we had consistency in the way apps functioned before, now we have this annoying thing where most apps work the same except for a few apple ones

We didn't have consistency before, either. Many apps, particularly Apples, already autosaved: iCal, Address Book, iPhoto, Aperture, iMovie, XCode. And except for Aperture none of these had any recovery method. 1Password autosaves as does a little todo program I use, iProcrastinate, and I think (don't know for sure) Circus Ponies Notebook, TextWrangler, BBEdit. I'm sure there are others. So the idea of autosave isn't new. Under Windows Microsoft OneNote autosaves as well!

Microsoft says Office will be "Lionized" eventually. I use EazyDraw and OmniGraffle both of which now support autosave/resume/versions. EazyDraw does still have Save-as (as well as the new Duplicate) which is interesting!

Zcott
Aug 4, 2011, 11:02 AM
The new way of saving seems to be a pain. Why does Apple have to reinvent the wheel? A desktop computer is not an IOS tablet. It has a file system unlike the tablet.

Give it a few years and I'm pretty sure most people won't want to go back to "Save As". It's a big step, but it's an improvement.