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MacRumors
Jul 28, 2011, 05:21 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/28/apples-ipad-crushing-motorolas-xoom/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/07/5506258862_3a85ab16e4.jpg


Apple sold 9.2 million iPads in the June quarter and Apple CFO Peter Oppenheimer noted (http://seekingalpha.com/article/280344-apple-management-discusses-q3-2011-results-earnings-call-transcript) Apple is selling "every iPad we can make."

In contrast, Motorola Mobility shipped (http://allthingsd.com/20110728/motorola-sees-tablet-sales-of-1-5-million-or-less-this-year/) (not necessarily sold) 440,000 in the just ended quarter, and expects to sell 1.3 to 1.5 million tablets this year.

As Dan Frommer points out, Apple sells 1.5 million iPads every two weeks (http://www.splatf.com/2011/07/xoom-shipments/).

(Photo courtesy Flickr/Christopher Fields (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fieldsakafields/5506258862/))

Article Link: Apple's iPad Crushing Motorola's Xoom (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/28/apples-ipad-crushing-motorolas-xoom/)



v66jack
Jul 28, 2011, 05:22 PM
Is this really surprising?

*LTD*
Jul 28, 2011, 05:25 PM
It's interesting how Google is unable to translate their smartphone share into tablet share.

levitynyc
Jul 28, 2011, 05:25 PM
further confirming we won't be seeing the iPad 3 this year.

Plas00
Jul 28, 2011, 05:26 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

What is a "Xoom"??

rdowns
Jul 28, 2011, 05:26 PM
I know the site frowns on one-word (my new love of hyphenated words, just like MR) replies but it's the most appropriate word.

Duh!

:D

Stang68
Jul 28, 2011, 05:27 PM
I think we all know it is going to be Android tablets as a whole versus the iPad...as sad as that sounds.

I have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 and it's a really beautiful device. Suits my needs well and is really up there compared with the iPad, even though some of you won't agree! :p

jamespa66
Jul 28, 2011, 05:28 PM
If there is another iPad released this year I think it will be a lower end model with a low price point to entice a larger audience.

b11051973
Jul 28, 2011, 05:30 PM
I saw a commercial on TV this morning for some tablet. At the end, it said something like "the first company to get the tablet right". Um, maybe the company that sells millions and millions of tablets got it right. :)

*LTD*
Jul 28, 2011, 05:31 PM
Perspective:

http://www.netmarketshare.com/2011/06/01/Where-s-the-iPad-s-Competition

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/jul/06/ipad-browsing-web-domination-android

In other words, for every thousand page views by a tablet, 965 would come from an iPad, 19 from a Galaxy Tab, 12 from a Xoom and 3 from a PlayBook. (In market share terms, that would show up as Android having a 3 percent share.)

With 25m iPads sold, that would imply (on a like-for-like basis) that there are something like half a million Galaxy Tabs in use, and 325,000 Xooms.

bluemonkeyguy
Jul 28, 2011, 05:31 PM
Obvious post is obvious.

fabian9
Jul 28, 2011, 05:34 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I think we all know it is going to be Android tablets as a whole versus the iPad...as sad as that sounds.

I have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 and it's a really beautiful device. Suits my needs well and is really up there compared with the iPad, even though some of you won't agree! :p

Isnt the galaxy tab roughly the same price as the iPad? How come you chose it?

Stang68
Jul 28, 2011, 05:35 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



Isnt the galaxy tab roughly the same price as the iPad? How come you chose it?

It is the same price, actually. I chose it because I have always had Android phones so it made sense since I am in their ecosystem. I just prefer it over iOS.

*LTD*
Jul 28, 2011, 05:39 PM
‘You’ll Rule the World’
Alan Kay, regarding his reaction to the iPhone in January 2007:

When the Mac first came out, Newsweek asked me what I [thought] of it. I said: Well, it’s the first personal computer worth criticizing. So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world.


http://daringfireball.net/

itcomesinwaves
Jul 28, 2011, 05:55 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

What is a "Xoom"??

It’s Droid-speak for ‘Soon’.

kdarling
Jul 28, 2011, 05:56 PM
Perspective:

Worthless links.

We've proven many times around here that web browsing statistics bear little or no relationship to actual sales of any item.

For example: using such numbers, we would conclude that there are as many iPads out there as all the iPhones and iPod touches combined.

The reality is far, far different. While iPads account for 50% of all iOS browsing, they are only 1/8 of all iOS sales.

RetepNamenots
Jul 28, 2011, 05:58 PM
The figures '1.5m tablets sold / week' and '9.2m tablets sold last quarter' just don't add up...

In any case, it is really surprising that all iOS tablets are outselling just one Android tablet? And to play devil's advocate, you have to consider that Android tablets are available in far fewer countries...

andreiru
Jul 28, 2011, 06:05 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; ru-ru) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Great product plus cleva marketin equals Apple.

Adidas Addict
Jul 28, 2011, 06:05 PM
you have to consider that Android tablets are available in far fewer countries...

Not a chance, the chinese sub $100 android tablets are available the world over and just rebranded for supermarkets and countries.

neko girl
Jul 28, 2011, 06:16 PM
We've proven many times around here that web browsing statistics bear little or no relationship to actual sales of any item.

For example: using such numbers, we would conclude that there are as many iPads out there as all the iPhones and iPod touches combined.

The reality is far, far different. While iPads account for 50% of all iOS browsing, they are only 1/8 of all iOS sales.
But the numbers in the article are comparing tablets to tablets. I think the comparison is legitimate, and your example doesn't apply.

Edit: and I mean this study:
http://www.netmarketshare.com/2011/06/01/Where-s-the-iPad-s-Competition

Glideslope
Jul 28, 2011, 06:18 PM
"The Assimilation Continues". :apple:

But the numbers in the article are comparing tablets to tablets. I think the comparison is legitimate, and your example doesn't apply.

Goal!!! ;)

applesith
Jul 28, 2011, 06:27 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_9 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E501 Safari/6533.18.5)

Apple can throw shade because they have the receipts!!

TheOrioles33
Jul 28, 2011, 06:37 PM
But the Xoom can do Flash!!! LOL!!

spazzcat
Jul 28, 2011, 06:39 PM
It's interesting how Google is unable to translate their smartphone share into tablet share.

While not all, but a fairly good number of people settled for a Droid or got it free and didn't care.

*LTD*
Jul 28, 2011, 06:39 PM
But the Xoom can do Flash!!! LOL!!

It doesn't seem to be killer feature. ;)

Flash is no longer a factor. A flash-less iPad is setting the standard and dominating, while a Flash-less iPhone on its own carries 28% share, while a Flash-less iOS the dominant mobile OS.

It's almost as if Flash was always a non-factor. In fact, it always *was* a non-factor.

spazzcat
Jul 28, 2011, 06:42 PM
The figures '1.5m tablets sold / week' and '9.2m tablets sold last quarter' just don't add up...

In any case, it is really surprising that all iOS tablets are outselling just one Android tablet? And to play devil's advocate, you have to consider that Android tablets are available in far fewer countries...

1.5 every two weeks

SockRolid
Jul 28, 2011, 06:52 PM
It's interesting how Google is unable to translate their smartphone share into tablet share.

Android is doing well in the smartphone space because the carriers are promoting the handsets. For example, Verizon used to promote BlackBerries as their top smartphone. BlackBerries sold well as a result. Verizon threw BlackBerry down the staircase when Android handsets became available, and Android handsets did well at Verizon.

But now Verizon is promoting iPhone as their top smartphone. Android sales have leveled off at Verizon as a result. And just wait until the current crop of Android users come off-contract and can switch to iPhone without paying the huge early termination fee. Down the staircase you go, Android.

Things are different in the iPad and iPad clone market. The carriers couldn't care less about iPad because there's so little money in it for them. So what if a user pays a few bucks for monthly 3G connectivity? The carriers want you to buy big-minute voice plans, pay for data by the gigabyte, and to fork over sucker money for texting privileges.

So, without all that hype from the cell carriers, the iPad and its clones must fend for themselves on the open market. No carrier hype. No carrier lock-in. The best iPad or iPad clone wins in the battle royale that is the consumer electronics market. Right?

Wrong. iPad + iOS is just the tip of the ecosystem iceberg, to mix metaphors. iPad is just an empty frame for iOS. And iOS gets out of the way as quickly as possible. So users can go straight to their apps, media, and communication. And Apple is working hard on the app / media / communication technology infrastructure for the 21st century. And everyone knows it.

ratzzo
Jul 28, 2011, 07:02 PM
Honestly speaking I don't know the specs of the Xoom. But I do know the iPad 2 offers an incredible price for its specs. The Xoom, being very similarly priced to the Apple tablet, can't really put up a fight.

Between a known quality product (introduced by the iPad 1) with great specs and recognition as well as a gigantic app world and a Motorola tablet at the same price but less to offer to the table, counting in added marketing campaigns in favor of the iPad 2... it is clear what the customer wants and is reflected on sales.

Whether you are an Apple fanboy or not, one must recognize Apple's finesse and quality in the iPad 2 which other competitors quite frankly cannot reach.

On another note, I must emphasize it really is terrible planning from the Apple sales executives to not fully take advantage of their renowned success and contract other manufacturers in order to increase their production and therefore their revenue. It's ridiculous that in order to get my iPad 2 (a couple of months ago!), stores still didn't have enough stock and the online order expected 1-2 weeks delivery time. They are losing a significant amount of money this way, I guess not even themselves planned for the success their device has attracted, but still it seems to me they are not fully aware of the margin they have which is being wasted..

Focker
Jul 28, 2011, 07:10 PM
Worthless links.

We've proven many times around here that web browsing statistics bear little or no relationship to actual sales of any item.

For example: using such numbers, we would conclude that there are as many iPads out there as all the iPhones and iPod touches combined.

The reality is far, far different. While iPads account for 50% of all iOS browsing, they are only 1/8 of all iOS sales.

Your point still doesn't negate the fact that the iPad crushed the zoom in sales numbers. Get over it.

nylonsteel
Jul 28, 2011, 07:19 PM
re aapl ipad crushing competitor tablets

its so obvious
for personal and work related resons i hope ipads crush blackberry tablets
so my IT department will issue ipad2-3 to us

Rodster
Jul 28, 2011, 07:22 PM
Where's Capt. Obvious when you need him?

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/929043_f260.jpg

toddybody
Jul 28, 2011, 07:32 PM
I think this goes under the "no sh$t Sherlock" thread section.

E.Lizardo
Jul 28, 2011, 07:52 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

What is a "Xoom"??

Hint:I rhymes with"ZUNE"

E.Lizardo
Jul 28, 2011, 07:54 PM
further confirming we won't be seeing the iPad 3 this year.

Wrong.It has nothing to do with the timing of next iPad release.

Yamcha
Jul 28, 2011, 07:59 PM
Not surprised, honestly i don't understand why anyone would even get an Android tablet, i say that having used a android device, and the experience isn't fluid like what you find on an iPad..

But i do think that the HP touchpad and blackberry playbook perform about the same as the iPad and IMO they provide a better multi tasking experience, but the downside is there aren't very many applications or games..

E.Lizardo
Jul 28, 2011, 08:01 PM
Android is doing well in the smartphone space because the carriers are promoting the handsets. For example, Verizon used to promote BlackBerries as their top smartphone. BlackBerries sold well as a result. Verizon threw BlackBerry down the staircase when Android handsets became available, and Android handsets did well at Verizon.

But now Verizon is promoting iPhone as their top smartphone. Android sales have leveled off at Verizon as a result. And just wait until the current crop of Android users come off-contract and can switch to iPhone without paying the huge early termination fee. Down the staircase you go, Android.

Things are different in the iPad and iPad clone market. The carriers couldn't care less about iPad because there's so little money in it for them. So what if a user pays a few bucks for monthly 3G connectivity? The carriers want you to buy big-minute voice plans, pay for data by the gigabyte, and to fork over sucker money for texting privileges.

So, without all that hype from the cell carriers, the iPad and its clones must fend for themselves on the open market. No carrier hype. No carrier lock-in. The best iPad or iPad clone wins in the battle royale that is the consumer electronics market. Right?

Wrong. iPad + iOS is just the tip of the ecosystem iceberg, to mix metaphors. iPad is just an empty frame for iOS. And iOS gets out of the way as quickly as possible. So users can go straight to their apps, media, and communication. And Apple is working hard on the app / media / communication technology infrastructure for the 21st century. And everyone knows it.

Excellent insight.Thanks!

justinfreid
Jul 28, 2011, 08:16 PM
further confirming we won't be seeing the iPad 3 this year.

I disagree. Apple might wanted to leap ahead of the competition even further, and if they're currently selling every iPad they make, they presumably won't have any iPad 2 inventory left over if they announce and release they iPad 3 within a few weeks of each other.
I don't think Apple's release cycle is often based upon selling as many of a generation as they can before moving on to the next - I think the iPad 2 would have been released much later if that was the case.

Apple...
Jul 28, 2011, 08:44 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

There will be no iPad 3 this year. Get over it.

Kieranic
Jul 28, 2011, 08:56 PM
I was trying out the Motorola Xoom at a local shop just an hour ago for the first time. It felt pretty confusing to use and was actually noticeably "sluggish". Not a good first impression in my opinion.

I'm not surprised that the iPad is crushing the Xoom. It's obvious Apple put a lot more thought and research into their tablet, unlike Motorola who probably just raced to get this out after the sudden demand for the iPad mid last year.

MacinDoc
Jul 28, 2011, 09:14 PM
Worthless links.

We've proven many times around here that web browsing statistics bear little or no relationship to actual sales of any item.

For example: using such numbers, we would conclude that there are as many iPads out there as all the iPhones and iPod touches combined.

The reality is far, far different. While iPads account for 50% of all iOS browsing, they are only 1/8 of all iOS sales.
So, are you saying that people are buying as many Android tabs as iPads, but just aren't using them for any online services? This begs the question, exactly what are all those millions of Android tabs being used for? If not for browsing and other online services, what is the point of having a tab? Are Android tablets nothing more than glorified Gameboys?

WiiDSmoker
Jul 28, 2011, 09:16 PM
People don't want a tablet; they want an iPad.

solarguy17
Jul 28, 2011, 09:19 PM
It's interesting how Google is unable to translate their smartphone share into tablet share.

there is a difference here. Google isn't advertising for their OS on various devices. They have left it up to the manufactures to advertise.
Motorola has done a terrible job with adverts. Other then around the week they debuted, I have never seen a Xoom ad.
I do see Galaxy Tab ads now that the 10.1 is out, but those are the first ads for them I have seen since about a month after the original tab debuted.
Also, same goes for the Playbook and the HP tablet. I only saw ads right before and after launch, but none after that.

Whereas with iPad and iPad2 (and iphone4) I still see ads, not as frequent, but they are still actively advertising 1.2 year old devices fairly heavily in a world that always move to the next best thing. Thats why apple is winning against Android. Has nothing to do with how good the tablets actually are but because of clever and consistent advertising.

Without reminders people have a fairly short memories, even fanboys!

Also, the whole stuck in the ecosystem thing is really big too. I would have a hard time justifying a move to any android device now because i purchased many apps over iTunes and that doesn't translate to the android app store.

sjinsjca
Jul 28, 2011, 09:21 PM
"sluggish"

My first impression of the Xoom as well. I tried one in a store, and chalked up its balkiness to previous customers futzing it up. But enough others have mentioned its occasional sluggishness that it seems to be inherent in the design.

Pity. I'm a believer in competition truly improving the breed.

TheOrioles33
Jul 28, 2011, 09:33 PM
It doesn't seem to be killer feature. ;)

Flash is no longer a factor. A flash-less iPad is setting the standard and dominating, while a Flash-less iPhone on its own carries 28% share, while a Flash-less iOS the dominant mobile OS.

It's almost as if Flash was always a non-factor. In fact, it always *was* a non-factor.

I agree 100%. It cracks me up when every tablet commercial gloats about how it can do Flash. Whoopdy doo!

VitaminD
Jul 28, 2011, 10:11 PM
Android for tablets is a mess. The entire "ecosystem." Google should sincerely apologize.

The Norman
Jul 28, 2011, 10:35 PM
What's with the signatures showing up before comments?


[QUOTE=Apple...;13067202]Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

tommy060289
Jul 28, 2011, 10:38 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

Pretty obvious this! There really is very VERY little reason to buy any other tablet than an iPad!

kdarling
Jul 28, 2011, 10:45 PM
Your point still doesn't negate the fact that the iPad crushed the zoom in sales numbers. Get over it.

Get over what? Heck, I personally helped iPad sales by buying several for members of my family :)

So, are you saying that people are buying as many Android tabs as iPads, but just aren't using them for any online services?

No sir, I didn't say they're buying as many. I said we cannot tell from those stats.

I said that browser statistics reported by these companies (who are advertising their paid services with these titillating free reports) are demonstrably incorrect measures of device sales... usually hugely so.

Using such web stats, anyone could easily conclude that nobody is buying iPhones or iPods in comparison to iPads, when the truth is quite the opposite. Or we could claim that people are buying iPhones, but aren't using them for online services. Either conclusion is incorrect.

This begs the question, exactly what are all those millions of Android tabs being used for? If not for browsing and other online services, what is the point of having a tab? Are Android tablets nothing more than glorified Gameboys?

What I'm saying is, we have no idea how many there are.... at least, not by using browser stats alone.

Take the first link he gave, from a company called NetMarketshare. They say they collect stats from their own collection of cooperating websites which have a total of 160 million visitors a month. This is pretty common for these reports.

That number of visitors is peanuts. Any one of the top-ten websites has more than that. So who are these sites? Just four of the top fifty? Or just 40 of the top 1,000? Or maybe 160 of the least visited 10,000? We do not know.

So the point is, without knowing what sites they use, we cannot even conjecture whether there might be lots of tablets in the hands of, say, children who would never visit those reported locations.... but who could be perfectly happy using say, all the hugely popular kid's websites. (If you have kids, you know about these. Or maybe not, if your home computers don't have Flash.)

In short, perhaps we can use some other way to figure it all out. But these freebie reports are not the way, not by a long shot. I'm open to any other ideas, though.

jcmeyer5
Jul 28, 2011, 11:41 PM
I think the point is, the analysis is an indicator, not a scientific measurement. And from that indicator, other-than-iPad devices are not even a blip on the radar. To add to it, since we only get sales in units "shipped" to retailers from other-than-iPad makers, there really is no way to know the true count of devices sold without manufacturer or retailer cooperation.

At the end of the day, there are no real threats to Apple's offerings, and likely won't ever be given the brilliance of how they have managed there business. Think about it. They took what once was a weakness from one segment ("nobody" bought Macs because the software support wasn't near as good as PC's) and turned it into a huge advantage with the iOS market.

Daforce
Jul 29, 2011, 12:13 AM
If there is another iPad released this year I think it will be a lower end model with a low price point to entice a larger audience.

Why i am reading this everywhere??IpadHD,smaller iPad,iPhone 4S small.. If we were talking about some other company i would say ok its possible but we are talking about Apple here...They would never do that:confused::confused:

res1233
Jul 29, 2011, 12:14 AM
Add iPhone + iPod Touch sales and I think it becomes pretty clear why the iPad 3G+WiFi and the iPad WiFi are doing so well. Both have cheaper versions of the 3G-enabled products, with the difference being that the iPad Wi-Fi doesn't actually have anything removed/downgraded to reduce the price (besides the 3G chip of course).

Point being, there's a massive market for iDevices beyond what we see with the iPhone.

MacinDoc
Jul 29, 2011, 01:30 AM
No sir, I didn't say they're buying as many. I said we cannot tell from those stats.
Yes, you are right, I was overstating what you said in the current thread, but in this previous thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1193690), were you not defending the article that suggested that Android had a 31% share of the tablet market share? Can you even remotely reconcile those numbers with the stats from any published study of web usage?

DavePurz
Jul 29, 2011, 03:00 AM
But the Xoom can do Flash!!! LOL!!

Yup! That's why I bought a XOOM. It can do Flash and costs $200 less.

I own an original iPod Video 5G, iPhone 3GS, and appleTV2. No flash, high price, and NON-HD display were iPad deal killers for me.

akaralias
Jul 29, 2011, 03:32 AM
I think we all know it is going to be Android tablets as a whole versus the iPad...as sad as that sounds.

I have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 and it's a really beautiful device. Suits my needs well and is really up there compared with the iPad, even though some of you won't agree! :p

Sure suits your needs, like Windows "suited' mine since 1996, when Apple really blew it, but thank God they are back and I am happy for that since 2005.
The thing is Android is free and can be in a lot of products in different range of prices. When you get accustomed to a computing enviroment then it "suits" your needs.
But when you compare the whole experience and feeling next to one another then you realize the difference.
I am still using Windows if needed and other phones besides my iPhone, but they are not better in any case just convenient and sufficient for the job at hand, of course that is what most people need and maybe Android will win the war, but let's not forget who is the game "changer" here!
The android phones that I played around with did not convinced me yet.
Tablets I have not tried any yet and I would like to get my hands on a WebOS device which I find more promising than Android but still at work.

the8thark
Jul 29, 2011, 04:29 AM
On another note, I must emphasize it really is terrible planning from the Apple sales executives to not fully take advantage of their renowned success and contract other manufacturers in order to increase their production and therefore their revenue. It's ridiculous that in order to get my iPad 2 (a couple of months ago!), stores still didn't have enough stock and the online order expected 1-2 weeks delivery time. They are losing a significant amount of money this way, I guess not even themselves planned for the success their device has attracted, but still it seems to me they are not fully aware of the margin they have which is being wasted..
I sort of agree with you. What you talk about is a risk. Higher number of iPads in the sales channels (ie store shelves and online) to buy is more potential sales. But if they didn't sell that's dead or slow moving stock.

Apple as we all know are always conservative with their estimates. Best give low company predictions and exceed them always. And in our example best ship slightly less product and have it all sell then risk the higher number and not have it all sell.

Sure it takes people a 1-2 more for people to get their iPad. Not too big a deal. But for Apple (mostly Tim Cook) making all the stock in their sales channels is sold is very important.

************************

Not a Xoom but this is why Apple is beating all the other tablets.
Worst gadget ever? Ars reviews a $99 Android tablet (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2010/11/worst-gadget-ever-ars-reviews-a-99-android-tablet.ars)

from the review:
anyone looking to buy one would get more bang for the buck by setting it on fire for warmth.

does say that it has a standby time of 2-3 hours

Yes, there were times when we got less than an hour from a full charge.

Verdict: Run screaming in the other direction

solarguy17
Jul 29, 2011, 06:49 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

But the Xoom can do Flash!!! LOL!!

Yup! That's why I bought a XOOM. It can do Flash and costs $200 less.

I own an original iPod Video 5G, iPhone 3GS, and appleTV2. No flash, high price, and NON-HD display were iPad deal killers for me.

You entire post is a fail.
The same iPad 2 compared to the base Xoom is $100 more. Not $200. That is the wifi, 32GB version. But there is less of difference when comparing the 3G version.
The screen resultions arent that much different and the Xoom isnt HD also.
Xoom has flash but having flash is a nonissue and is a nice to have feature but no a game changer or a killer feature.

The fact is the xoom is a good tablet, and has potential but hasn't reached it yet.

barefeats
Jul 29, 2011, 07:05 AM
Used the Xoom and iPad side by side for several days. The Xoom HW specs are impressive but many Android apps don't know how to handle the wide aspect screen. The most useful apps are either crappy or missing in action. That along with the lack of a comprehensive sync scenario makes it un-tempting as an iPad alternative.

*LTD*
Jul 29, 2011, 08:14 AM
Used the Xoom and iPad side by side for several days. The Xoom HW specs are impressive but many Android apps don't know how to handle the wide aspect screen. The most useful apps are either crappy or missing in action. That along with the lack of a comprehensive sync scenario makes it un-tempting as an iPad alternative.

These also-rans are releasing beta-ware instead of a complete, stable product. And they keep doing it.

manu chao
Jul 29, 2011, 08:41 AM
Worthless links.

We've proven many times around here that web browsing statistics bear little or no relationship to actual sales of any item.

For example: using such numbers, we would conclude that there are as many iPads out there as all the iPhones and iPod touches combined.

The reality is far, far different. While iPads account for 50% of all iOS browsing, they are only 1/8 of all iOS sales.
But once you compare for the same type of device only (ie, tablets), things get more accurate. That web browsing statistic estimated 325 000 sold Xooms, now Motorola reports 440 000 shipped Xooms and we know well that the Xooms are not in short supply in the channel, ie, the sold number is somewhat lower than the shipped number. Seen like this the usage-derived number was a reasonable estimate.

Wrong.It has nothing to do with the timing of next iPad release.
Why do you counter the obvious impossibility of knowing for sure whether an iPad 3 will come out this year or not with another obvious impossibility of knowing for sure that sales of the iPad, in particular in comparison with its competitors, will not affect Apple's product planning?

manu chao
Jul 29, 2011, 08:46 AM
Deleted.

Jerome Morrow
Jul 29, 2011, 08:50 AM
The fact is the xoom is a good tablet, and has potential but hasn't reached it yet.

Won't be reaching it. Ever.

the8thark
Jul 29, 2011, 09:45 AM
The fact is the xoom is a good tablet, and has potential but hasn't reached it yet.
Hmm would you buy a tablet that is potentially good at some random time in the future or would you rather buy a tablet that is very good right now?

Potential is good but useless if you do nothing with it.

kevinof
Jul 29, 2011, 09:49 AM
What rubbish. Tell that to my kids and to the ipad 1 that is sitting in the drawer not being used. It doesn't do flash and that ruled out a lot of the sites and games the kids wanted to use. We now have an Asus transformer which works great for them.

You may not want flash and that's fine but others do.

It doesn't seem to be killer feature. ;)

Flash is no longer a factor. A flash-less iPad is setting the standard and dominating, while a Flash-less iPhone on its own carries 28% share, while a Flash-less iOS the dominant mobile OS.

It's almost as if Flash was always a non-factor. In fact, it always *was* a non-factor.

Truffy
Jul 29, 2011, 09:53 AM
It doesn't seem to be killer feature. ;)

Flash is no longer a factor. A flash-less iPad is setting the standard and dominating, while a Flash-less iPhone on its own carries 28% share, while a Flash-less iOS the dominant mobile OS.

It's almost as if Flash was always a non-factor. In fact, it always *was* a non-factor.
As much as I'd like to agree with you, I can't. Although I grieve not for Flash, I do find the lack of it on my MBA to be a pain in not being able to view YouTube videos. For that, I have to resort to my MacPro.

I long for the day when Flash truly is dead.

tsadi
Jul 29, 2011, 10:10 AM
As much as I'd like to agree with you, I can't. Although I grieve not for Flash, I do find the lack of it on my MBA to be a pain in not being able to view YouTube videos. For that, I have to resort to my MacPro.

I long for the day when Flash truly is dead.

No Flash on an MBA?

Truffy
Jul 29, 2011, 10:17 AM
No Flash on an MBA?
Not as standard. You can install it, of course, but it's a drain on the battery (and battery life of the MBA is a major boon). Besides, you don't realise how many annoying ads are Flash-based until you ditch it! :)

blueroom
Jul 29, 2011, 10:18 AM
What rubbish. Tell that to my kids and to the ipad 1 that is sitting in the drawer not being used. It doesn't do flash and that ruled out a lot of the sites and games the kids wanted to use. We now have an Asus transformer which works great for them.

You may not want flash and that's fine but others do.

Show them the App store, lots & lots of excellent games there.

roadbloc
Jul 29, 2011, 10:58 AM
Show them the App store, lots & lots of excellent games there.

The majority of which cost money. Flash games are free. The iOS equivalents tend to cost 69p at least.

BuzzMega
Jul 29, 2011, 11:26 AM
When you look at the form factor of iPhones, they went from a very ground-breaking original form, to a substantially improved form, to a highly evolved form in the iPhone 4.

If the iPhone 5 turns out to have more of the form factor of the iPod Touch/iPad 2 design attributes (call it Edge-Tuck), I would be disappointed in the shape. Every time I pick up an iPod Touch, it seems to be substantially "lesser" in its physical seriousness, which, of course, it is. But in an iPod, I don't expect everything I get from an iPhone.

Trimming weight off the iPhone is one of those things that's nice, but not a main-stream concern. How many times have you ever picked up a device this light and complained that it was simply too &#%@ heavy? What would you really, really rather have?: An ounce less weight, or three hours' more battery life?

To counter an iPhone 5's Edge-Tuck design, it would have to contain a substantially superior, higher-definition, lower-light, wider-dynamic range camera, with the missing features of exposure lock before rolling video or before shooting a still, macro focus under 4 inches (100mm), on-board stereo audio capture and 1080p30. Minimum. If it were lighter, it would have to counter that with equal battery performance over the life of the unit. Smaller, lighter batteries tend to wuss out at the x-hundredth recharge more readily, and that would be a no-no.

MrWillie
Jul 29, 2011, 11:57 AM
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You entire post is a fail.
The same iPad 2 compared to the base Xoom is $100 more. Not $200. That is the wifi, 32GB version. But there is less of difference when comparing the 3G version.
The screen resultions arent that much different and the Xoom isnt HD also.
Xoom has flash but having flash is a nonissue and is a nice to have feature but no a game changer or a killer feature.

The fact is the xoom is a good tablet, and has potential but hasn't reached it yet.

No, he's correct on pricing. Xoom can now be found heavily discounted in bargin bins.

What rubbish. Tell that to my kids and to the ipad 1 that is sitting in the drawer not being used. It doesn't do flash and that ruled out a lot of the sites and games the kids wanted to use. We now have an Asus transformer which works great for them.

You may not want flash and that's fine but others do.

Most of us (well me at least) didn't spend money on a tablet just to play flash games. Nor am I too cheap to spend a dollar or so on an iOS game. One that uses the full screen and doesn't require an intenet connection.

kdarling
Jul 29, 2011, 12:08 PM
On another note, I must emphasize it really is terrible planning from the Apple sales executives to not fully take advantage of their renowned success and contract other manufacturers in order to increase their production and therefore their revenue.

Didn't the tsunami have a part in the lack of iPads?

Yes, you are right, I was overstating what you said in the current thread, but in this previous thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1193690), were you not defending the article that suggested that Android had a 31% share of the tablet market share?

If you mean this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13006819#post13006819), once again I was simply pointing out that we didn't have enough information to form a solid opinion.

I've been posting online for forty years. I'm not into religious device battles, as every fad comes and goes.

What I and others here do try to promote, is the concept of examining sources and doing further research before jumping on bandwagons or believing everything we read, right away.

For instance, I always go back and find the original source of anything I read in so-called tech news sites. It's ridiculous how much many stories get modified as they pass through the internet echo chamber.

This is why many of us with years of industry experience hang out here. We can right away say, hey no, that patent doesn't mean that. Or that statistic is misleading. Once informed, then people can go ahead and argue using a better basis.

Can you even remotely reconcile those numbers with the stats from any published study of web usage?

My daughter uses Android tablets all the time for games and watching videos, but never surfs the web.

Come to think of it, all the women that I've given iPads to, don't use the web browser either! They use Facebook, Flipboard and other RSS readers, email, and such... but almost never surf the web like men tend to do.

Show them the App store, lots & lots of excellent games there.

Apps cannot compare to the rich interactive kid's worlds available online that use Flash. From Poptropica to Wizard101 to Moshi Monsters to ZwinkyCuties to whatever.

gohanmzt
Jul 29, 2011, 01:24 PM
People don't want a tablet; they want an iPad.

Nice. Now patent it before apple tries to use it!! :D

Rodimus Prime
Jul 29, 2011, 02:36 PM
come on even among the Android groups the Xoom is considered pretty bad and full of empty promises. The Galaxy 10.1 is what they tell everyone to get.

dethmaShine
Jul 29, 2011, 02:58 PM
come on even among the Android groups the Xoom is considered pretty bad and full of empty promises. The Galaxy 10.1 is what they tell everyone to get.

Post noted for future references.

solarguy17
Jul 29, 2011, 05:14 PM
No, he's correct on pricing. Xoom can now be found heavily discounted in bargin bins.

good point. didn't consider that.

marksman
Jul 29, 2011, 11:36 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Show them the App store, lots & lots of excellent games there.

The majority of which cost money. Flash games are free. The iOS equivalents tend to cost 69p at least.

So instead of buying them some $1 games you spent hundreds on another tablet?

kevinof
Jul 30, 2011, 06:44 AM
Show them the App store, lots & lots of excellent games there.

Typical fanboy response. So instead of letting him play online with all his friends on moshi monsters using the transformer , I should give him the ipad and tell him he can't play online with his friends? What rubbish. He doesn't want the games in the app store - he wants to do what his friends are doing and thats why the ipad is gathering dust and no longer used.

bocomo
Jul 30, 2011, 10:01 AM
there is a difference here. Google isn't advertising for their OS on various devices. They have left it up to the manufactures to advertise.
Motorola has done a terrible job with adverts. Other then around the week they debuted, I have never seen a Xoom ad.
I do see Galaxy Tab ads now that the 10.1 is out, but those are the first ads for them I have seen since about a month after the original tab debuted.
Also, same goes for the Playbook and the HP tablet. I only saw ads right before and after launch, but none after that.

Whereas with iPad and iPad2 (and iphone4) I still see ads, not as frequent, but they are still actively advertising 1.2 year old devices fairly heavily in a world that always move to the next best thing. Thats why apple is winning against Android. Has nothing to do with how good the tablets actually are but because of clever and consistent advertising.

Without reminders people have a fairly short memories, even fanboys!

Also, the whole stuck in the ecosystem thing is really big too. I would have a hard time justifying a move to any android device now because i purchased many apps over iTunes and that doesn't translate to the android app store.

wow, you can't be serious

bocomo
Jul 30, 2011, 10:12 AM
Hmm would you buy a tablet that is potentially good at some random time in the future or would you rather buy a tablet that is very good right now?

Potential is good but useless if you do nothing with it.

this is a large problem for competing tablets

we always hear how "there will be more apps soon" or "that's bound to be fixed soon" etc.

bocomo
Jul 30, 2011, 10:20 AM
Didn't the tsunami have a part in the lack of iPads?



If you mean this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13006819#post13006819), once again I was simply pointing out that we didn't have enough information to form a solid opinion.

I've been posting online for forty years. I'm not into religious device battles, as every fad comes and goes.

What I and others here do try to promote, is the concept of examining sources and doing further research before jumping on bandwagons or believing everything we read, right away.

For instance, I always go back and find the original source of anything I read in so-called tech news sites. It's ridiculous how much many stories get modified as they pass through the internet echo chamber.

This is why many of us with years of industry experience hang out here. We can right away say, hey no, that patent doesn't mean that. Or that statistic is misleading. Once informed, then people can go ahead and argue using a better basis.



My daughter uses Android tablets all the time for games and watching videos, but never surfs the web.

Come to think of it, all the women that I've given iPads to, don't use the web browser either! They use Facebook, Flipboard and other RSS readers, email, and such... but almost never surf the web like men tend to do.



Apps cannot compare to the rich interactive kid's worlds available online that use Flash. From Poptropica to Wizard101 to Moshi Monsters to ZwinkyCuties to whatever.

there are rich, interactive kids games for ipad. have you really looked?

winston1236
Jul 30, 2011, 11:56 AM
Typical fanboy response. So instead of letting him play online with all his friends on moshi monsters using the transformer , I should give him the ipad and tell him he can't play online with his friends? What rubbish. He doesn't want the games in the app store - he wants to do what his friends are doing and thats why the ipad is gathering dust and no longer used.

lucky for you the rest of the market disagrees and your unused ipad still has an excellent resale value that you should take advantage of

kdarling
Jul 30, 2011, 01:44 PM
there are rich, interactive kids games for ipad. have you really looked?

The popular kids' sites we're talking about usually have two major common features:

1) They are server-based, allowing users around the globe to interact with each other's avatars in realtime within a huge virtual world that's constantly being added to.

Are there similar iPad games?

2) They're written in Flash:

That means they can login and play on any desktop, laptop or tablet that supports it.

My daughter can play on a 3G/4G Android tablet in the car and transition to a large screen desktop at home. Or I can ask her to move to another device so I can use that tablet :)

(PS. Please only quote the sentence(s) that you're replying to, not the whole post. Thanks!..)

FloatingBones
Jul 30, 2011, 02:56 PM
The popular kids' sites we're talking about usually have two major common features:

1) They are server-based, allowing users around the globe to interact with each other's avatars in realtime within a huge virtual world that's constantly being added to.

Are there similar iPad games?

2) They're written in Flash:

Adobe's cross-compilation environment was released about a month ago. Flash apps are now showing up in the App Store (politifact is the only one I can name off the tip of my tongue).

Any Flash developer can now put their apps in the App Store. Once they do that, their Flash apps can now be accesses by the 222M+ iOS computers (and the attractive demographics of that audience). They can set a price on their Flash apps and collect 70% of the fee or they can set them to to be freely distributed.

The point: there don't have to be "similar iPad games" created -- the exact same Flash code can run on the iOS platform. If those developers release their apps that way, your kids could run 'em on an iPad.

DeathChill
Jul 30, 2011, 06:36 PM
2) They're written in Flash:

That means they can login and play on any desktop, laptop or tablet that supports it.

My daughter can play on a 3G/4G Android tablet in the car and transition to a large screen desktop at home. Or I can ask her to move to another device so I can use that tablet :)



I am curious: what games are they playing in Flash and how well do they work on the tablet? I've heard of very few actual Flash apps translating into anything close to an enjoyable experience on a mobile device.

itsalexaye
Jul 30, 2011, 07:55 PM
That's because the iPad has reliable Operating system. Xoom has what that aweful Android OS?

kevinof
Jul 31, 2011, 04:46 AM
www.moshimonsters.com - its all flash server based "game" and it works perfectly on the asus transformer. Running this on a phone wouldn't make sense - it needs a big screen and trying to play on such a small size screen (even a 4.5 inch) just wouldn't make sense. However on a tablet it works great and the kids have no problems whatsoever.


I am curious: what games are they playing in Flash and how well do they work on the tablet? I've heard of very few actual Flash apps translating into anything close to an enjoyable experience on a mobile device.

DeathChill
Jul 31, 2011, 10:56 AM
Just curious: what's wrong with using iSwifter for Flash games, plus they get the benefits of the games in the App Store? I just tested out a bunch of stuff in it and it worked great. You get Flash AND you get the App Store.

neech7
Jul 31, 2011, 01:48 PM
That's because the iPad has reliable Operating system. Xoom has what that aweful Android OS?

Applefanboymeter going off the chart!

C'mon people, Jobs is human and Apple is not a religion.

palpatine
Jul 31, 2011, 02:23 PM
i don't think it is terribly interesting to compare the xoom to the ipad, because the xoom in terms of specs is a great piece of hardware. so are many of the other tablets. the issue is more about the software environment.

how many apps are there that i want to use?
how well do the apps work?
how polished is the os?
will i get updated os versions when they are released?
how committed to aftercare service is the company?

i couldn't find clear answers to any of these questions when i was originally looking at tablets, and i still can't. i think many consumers are probably like me--android curious, but not keen on being a guinea pig. the apple ipad, whatever my complaints about various things, could provide clear and extensive answers to every question. it was and remains the obvious choice for me.

until other manufacturers work better with google to address these concerns, i doubt any tablet will do well, even if it outperforms the ipad in terms of specs.

to give a concrete example, apple supported my ipod1 until the most recent update, and i basically got a brand new device every update cycle. they completely won me over, and i am now an mbp and ipad user (halo effect). amazon still refuses to tell me if it even plans to update my dx someday, and i have had it for a year now. they have made great updates to the smaller kindle, though, and dx users have to rely on hacks to access some of those features. updates are technically feasible, but it is obvious to me now that amazon has inconsistent commitment to its hardware. as much as i like amazon, after seeing how they treated dx customers, i won't even consider their tablet. i don't really feel like gambling on any other dabblers in the tablet market.

solarguy17
Jul 31, 2011, 11:20 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

there is a difference here. Google isn't advertising for their OS on various devices. They have left it up to the manufactures to advertise.
Motorola has done a terrible job with adverts. Other then around the week they debuted, I have never seen a Xoom ad.
I do see Galaxy Tab ads now that the 10.1 is out, but those are the first ads for them I have seen since about a month after the original tab debuted.
Also, same goes for the Playbook and the HP tablet. I only saw ads right before and after launch, but none after that.

Whereas with iPad and iPad2 (and iphone4) I still see ads, not as frequent, but they are still actively advertising 1.2 year old devices fairly heavily in a world that always move to the next best thing. Thats why apple is winning against Android. Has nothing to do with how good the tablets actually are but because of clever and consistent advertising.

Without reminders people have a fairly short memories, even fanboys!

Also, the whole stuck in the ecosystem thing is really big too. I would have a hard time justifying a move to any android device now because i purchased many apps over iTunes and that doesn't translate to the android app store.

wow, you can't be serious

Yes I am. Look spec wise and featurewise the ipad2 may be getting beat but there are few reasons they are selling more of any 1 iPad model then all other tablets combined.
1. Halo effect
2. Amount and quality of apps
3. Ease of use
4. And I think this a major reason - in the consumer view co stanly because of good advertising. YOu could have the absolute best tablet out there, it can project 3d holograms, cure cancer, solve calculus, and perform other "services" as needed. But with out good advertising it will fall by the wayside and bee forgotten about

MacinDoc
Aug 1, 2011, 03:52 PM
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Yes I am. Look spec wise and featurewise the ipad2 may be getting beat but there are few reasons they are selling more of any 1 iPad model then all other tablets combined.
1. Halo effect
2. Amount and quality of apps
3. Ease of use
4. And I think this a major reason - in the consumer view co stanly because of good advertising. YOu could have the absolute best tablet out there, it can project 3d holograms, cure cancer, solve calculus, and perform other "services" as needed. But with out good advertising it will fall by the wayside and bee forgotten about
Amount and quality of apps and ease of use are among the major features of the iPad2. So, with respect to features, you could say that the iPad 2 holds its own.

I'm not sure whether the "halo effect" is boosting iPad sales. The term was originally applied to the increase in Mac sales that resulted from people who loved their iPods deciding to buy Macs to go with them. Essentially, the iPod was a portal into the Apple ecosystem for those who were not previously Apple customers. Now, it may be that iPhone customers who are invested in the App Store are also buying iPads, but I have not seen any surveys to prove or disprove this speculation.

DavePurz
Aug 2, 2011, 04:02 AM
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You entire post is a fail.
The same iPad 2 compared to the base Xoom is $100 more. Not $200. That is the wifi, 32GB version. But there is less of difference when comparing the 3G version.
The screen resultions arent that much different and the Xoom isnt HD also.
Xoom has flash but having flash is a nonissue and is a nice to have feature but no a game changer or a killer feature.

The fact is the xoom is a good tablet, and has potential but hasn't reached it yet.

I know what I paid so your first point is WRONG!

HD video starts at 1280x720 which fits perfectly on the Xoom's 1280x800 screen. The iPad screen size is 1024x768, 256 pixels short of basic HD and has to scale the video down to fit the narrow display, dropping detail, so your second point is WRONG!

When the Japan earthquake hit, I couldn't watch most live video feeds on my iPhone or a coworker's iPad because of the lack of flash, therefore no flash was a HUGE issue that made the Apple products completely useless. Flash IS used for things other than games, so your third point is WRONG!

WRONG on three out of three. Who's entire post is a fail?

Just because I don't automatically buy a product for the Apple name doesn't mean I'm attacking your religion.

chrono1081
Aug 2, 2011, 04:08 AM
Applefanboymeter going off the chart!

C'mon people, Jobs is human and Apple is not a religion.

And your just as bad. No one thinks apple is a religion or steve jobs is a god. The poster has a valid point. The current implementation on android tablets is not stable and was indeed rushed. Just go use a Xoom it's painfully obvious.

palpatine
Aug 2, 2011, 04:29 AM
I know what I paid so your first point is WRONG!

HD video starts at 1280x720 which fits perfectly on the Xoom's 1280x800 screen. The iPad screen size is 1024x768, 256 pixels short of basic HD and has to scale the video down to fit the narrow display, dropping detail, so your second point is WRONG!

When the Japan earthquake hit, I couldn't watch most live video feeds on my iPhone or a coworker's iPad because of the lack of flash, therefore no flash was a HUGE issue that made the Apple products completely useless. Flash IS used for things other than games, so your third point is WRONG!

WRONG on three out of three. Who's entire post is a fail?

Just because I don't automatically buy a product for the Apple name doesn't mean I'm attacking your religion.

In fact, I think you are incorrect. I assume you were talking about NHK's website, which is notorious for its use of Flash. I use the iSwifter app to view it. I think the video quality suffers quite a bit, but it is certainly viewable. I would agree that iPad suffers from its poor support for Flash (it takes a bit of work to view it), but it is not useless.

As for other people's point about ads, I guess there is something to be said for good advertising, but i think Apple competitors are actually doing quite well with their campaigns. Word of mouth and a whole host of issues (listed in my post above) seem far more relevant. After all, if it was all just a bunch of hype, it would be difficult to explain how satisfied iPad users are with their products.