PowerMac G5, iMac G5, eMac Specs

[PeterQVenkman]

Just to throw in his counter-point to Thinksecret's predictions. If Think secret is wrong, I sure hope this guy is right!

Ok basically I know they have released speed bumps in the past like what ts is saying. Remember though ts is in a lawsuit were they are supposed to give their sources up. Since that lawsuit they havent "guessed" right, yet. I believe they're eroding the credibility of their sources to try and protect them. I have great respect for Nick and the site. He has done a great job and this whole situation is not to good. Antares was supposed to start out at 3.0ghz the cooling article may have said 2ghz, but I'm sure they weren't going to put all the specs for different processors in there. Believe me if you are hearing about it. They've been working with it for years. Apple has probably had there hands on this since a few months before the 2.5 came out. Maybe even longer. The fact is no matter how much you search
you won't get info on it. Unless you know someone inside.

I can tell you guaranteed that a few things being said here on these boards simply would never fly at this point.

1. Some have said there will be 2.7 and 2.8 ghz powermac systems. Apple won't be making a powermac without a 500 mhz increase for a while. When they do make one that is not 500 because it'll be something higher. You will never again see bumps lower than 500 mhz.
2. Even if there a 4 cores and not dual processors the chip speed wil not go down from where they are currently. Apple has given little thought to the mhz myth in the past. But look in some of the posts around various sites of people dropping there powermac for an AMD machine. Believe me Apple is aware of how this mhz myth plays out now. You wont catch them slipping again, especially not after last year.
3. Remember when the mini and shuffle were released before earnings for the 1st quarter? Among all the speculation of tiger release dates i only saw one person on various forums saying tuesday before earnings was the day.
In case you didn't notice the new ipod lineup that was released in march was released on a wednesday. Powerbooks came on a monday. Apple has changed the entire release schedule's because of people not buying on the expected new release of certain products. You can be sure apple will never have a regular release schedule again because of this.
4. Intel and Amd love telling the press what could be accomplished by them. Steve is more an element of surprise type. Think of intel's theoretical mac mini they showed off and the press it got. Well now you've got hordes of people waiting for these new processors from Intel and AMD. Everyday you read an article about them. By the time there out they're already telling you what's coming next. So again people wait and think well maybe I can wait for a few more months. Now they're basically cutting into their own sales. But, wait where's Apple and IBM in all this? Well they're quietly waiting to usher in the powermac's and show the world they've been ahead all this time, they just know how to keep a secret. You see folks when that happens how does that affect the market? You've got 2 companies with a roadmap of where they'll be, and one company seemingly coming out of the blue with what appears to be a knockout punch (that will take the others years to catch up to). Where does that leave the other guys? SOL.
5. TS will not even be in the ballpark on the powermac's.
6. As long as iMac's continue to sell your not going to get any crazy upgrades on them. Maybe a few nice things next time around, certainly not dual core or speed's above 2ghz.

[PeterQVenkman]

And, go see the thread for yourself!

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=5662

Remember, read my few posts before.

God, I am driven nuts by this. I hope we get something soon.

[Lacero]

Linky no worky.

[daveL]

And, go see the thread for yourself!

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=5662 (Thinksecret forum thread.)

Remember, read my few posts before.

God, I am driven nuts by this. I hope we get something soon.
None of these posts sound very convincing, to me. A 3.5 GHz quad?

[AidenShaw]

What if...

Also announced at NAB are new XServe Duallies (Dual, Dual-core CPUs)
My hunch would be that if something big is announced at NAB it will be quad XServes.

Wouldn't need to be dual core - put 4 970FX chips in a 3U or 4U chassis with redundant power, lots of slots, and 7 disks (maybe even make the "disk cage" half of an XServe RAID (7 ATA disks on one RAID controller).

The XServe is a "toy" in the server market - good price/performance, but none of the real availability features that mark a mainstream server (hot plug fans, redundant hot plug power supplies, hot plug RAM with advanced redundancy (RAID for RAM), hot plug PCI-X....).

The current 1U form factor also makes it next to impossible to load it up with the NICs, FC, and other interfaces to balance the processing power with the I/O capacity. It just doesn't have the cajones to be a real network server.

(I have a couple of 2U HPaq servers with 6 GigE Ethernet ports, quad Fibre Channel ports, and two InfiniBand ports - those 64-bit Xeons are very busy moving data around my network!)

[wdlove]

And, go see the thread for yourself!

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=5662

Remember, read my few posts before.

God, I am driven nuts by this. I hope we get something soon.

At least now we can focus on the news conference scheduled for 11am EDT at NAB tomorrow. Just the news media, so that should eliminate any booing. Doubt that Steve would show up on a Sunday. Unless he wants to be in on 100th Las Vegas activities.

[aswitcher]

At least now we can focus on the news conference scheduled for 11am EDT at NAB tomorrow. Just the news media, so that should eliminate any booing. Doubt that Steve would show up on a Sunday. Unless he wants to be in on 100th Las Vegas activities.

Ok, its Sunday 8am here so 11am EDT has passed right?

[PeterQVenkman]

Lacero, try it again, or copy and paste the text. I messed up while cutting and pasting everything. I'm such a dork.

daveL -

Think Secret's revealed specs sound a little off to me. Those specs were unimpressive (although realistic), and the video cards at least I bet are TOTALLY wrong.

I'm working right now on a dual 1.25 Ghz G4 with 1.5 GB or RAM, and DVD Studio Pro still stutters on me. What's it going to be like in "the year of HD"? Is Apple going to deliver software without Hardware to truly back it up?

Before anyone says the G5s are fast enough, I would say try animating with more than 20 layers in After Effects, Rendering in cinema 4d (anything with a good amount of detail, like an interior Radiosity render with high diffuse lighting samples), or working with uncompressed NTSC resolution video.

Tell me you don't need more speed, and I would say you either
1) Don't have hard deadlines
2) Have clients/bosses who are WAY more giving than mine
3) Haven't pushed your computer nearly as hard as the people I work with.

HD video will kick your computer's @$$. I think we will see something bigger come out of Apple than 2.7 or 2.8 Ghz.

Where did the 2.5's go? Hmmm? Wouldn't it be easier for Apple to ramp up production if chips at that speed were already available? It would be a mistake (a costly one) to just ditch their highest yielded clock speed from last revision. They would at LEAST reuse it in the middle of the line It is what they always do. it makes sense business wise. The 2.3 is believable because the xServe uses it.

My more down to Earth bet is that 2.7 or 2.8 will be the middle of the road, with 2.3 on the bottom end.

But, regardless, I am buying the middle of the road G5 that comes down the pipeline next. I bought my dual monitors in January in anticipation of a model refresh and have been left with blue-balls since then.

[animefan_1]

Ok, its Sunday 8am here so 11am EDT has passed right?

The event is at 11am PDT on Sunday April 17.

[Hiroshige]

Well, the Dark Side clouds everything. Do you have any other reason to believe they are wrong?

Ever since the ThinkSecret lawsuit, dabbled in the Dark Side Jobs has. False rumors and deception are his ways now.

[PeterQVenkman]

Ever since the ThinkSecret lawsuit, dabbled in the Dark Side Jobs has. False rumors and deception are his ways now.

LOL! I hope you are right. In this case if Think Secret is off on specs I win. I have a nice chunk of change built up for my power Mac. My iMac at home does NOT cut it anymore. :p

[~loserman~]

(I have a couple of 2U HPaq servers with 6 GigE Ethernet ports, quad Fibre Channel ports, and two InfiniBand ports - those 64-bit Xeons are very busy moving data around my network!)

I usually agree with you but I have to call BS on this one.

Even IF your 2U had PCI-X 64 bit 266Mhz it couldn't handle the full bandwidth of 1 IB card( 10Gbits(20 bi-directional))
2 cards would be 40Gbits
And servers with 64 bit PCI-X 266 are a very rare breed. Also there are no IB cards that I am aware of for 266.
And HP doesn't sell any 2U's with 266 either.
A 133Mhz 64 bit PCI bus has a max theoretical bandwidth of 8.512 Gbits
Therefore a single IB card pushes over 2.25 times as much as the PCI-X can provide.
The server would have to have 2 PCI-express 16x to provide full bandwidth to the 2 IB cards.
6 GigE would push 12Gbits bi-directional that also overloads PCI-X
a Quad Fibre channel card would completely saturate PCI-X all by itself.


What you have described in bandwidth is 60Gbits of I/O
bandwidth.
Thats even 25% higher than the Max theoretical memory bandwidth for Xeons
I'm from Missouri
Show Me

[pknz]

iMac! iMac! iMac! iMac! iMac! iMac! Me! Me! Me! Me! Me! Now! Now! Now!

[daveL]

daveL -

Think Secret's revealed specs sound a little off to me. Those specs were unimpressive (although realistic), and the video cards at least I bet are TOTALLY wrong.

PeterQ, I didn't say I believe TS, nor that you don't need the performance that you'd get from some of these rumored specs (the threads you linked to). However, I do not believe that IBM can produce a 970-whatever that's clocked faster than the current high-end AMD processors. I just don't think you're going to see a single core 970 faster than 2.8 GHz or a dual-core faster than 2.4 GHz. I'd love to be wrong, but I just don't think anything above these clock rates are realistic at this time.

[daveL]

I usually agree with you but I have to call BS on this one.

Even IF your 2U had PCI-X 64 bit 266Mhz it couldn't handle the full bandwidth of 1 IB card( 10Gbits(20 bi-directional))
2 cards would be 40Gbits
And servers with 64 bit PCI-X 266 are a very rare breed. Also there are no IB cards that I am aware of for 266.
And HP doesn't sell any 2U's with 266 either.
A 133Mhz 64 bit PCI bus has a max theoretical bandwidth of 8.512 Gbits
Therefore a single IB card pushes over 2.25 times as much as the PCI-X can provide.
The server would have to have 2 PCI-express 16x to provide full bandwidth to the 2 IB cards.
6 GigE would push 12Gbits bi-directional that also overloads PCI-X
a Quad Fibre channel card would completely saturate PCI-X all by itself.


What you have described in bandwidth is 60Gbits of I/O
bandwidth.
Thats even 25% higher than the Max theoretical memory bandwidth for Xeons
I'm from Missouri
Show Me
Well, everyone get ready for a bunch of hand waving from AS.

[~loserman~]

Well, everyone get ready for a bunch of hand waving from AS.

Are you saying that you disagree with my post?

[daveL]

Are you saying that you disagree with my post?
Not at all. I was referring to AS reacting to your post. Suffice it to say, even if such a box can be bought, it certainly would be over-configured for I/O. I normally agree with your posts. I normally don't agree with posts by AS.

[AidenShaw]

I usually agree with you but I have to call BS on this one.
...

What you have described in bandwidth is 60Gbits of I/O bandwidth.

You get a B- on your math - it's actually 68 Gbps - each FC is 2 Gbps bidirectional.

Did I claim that I was running at full cross-sectional bandwidth on all ports simultaneously?

No, and it's very common to configure servers with more *connectivity* than they can actually use at any instant.

The Fibre goes to a couple of different SAN arrays.

The GigE goes to several different networks (subnets).

The IB goes to a specialized local network (which is also bridged to GigE and FC).

When the server (it's mostly a disk server) gets a request from a network system, it can service it at full speed (a single disk request is usually disk limited). It can do several at once, all at full speed.

If everything lights up at once, there's a limit - which for these systems seems to be at about 1 GB/sec total throughput in the best case (that's what can move across the system backplane).

This is why 6 to 10 PCI-X slots are typical for a 4U server - not because it can run them all at full bandwidth, but because you want to connect it to many different networks and devices.

If we followed your math, we'd question why an XServe RAID has more than 3 disks... (A disk can do roughly 70 MB/sec, the 2 Gbps FC can do about 200 MB/sec, therefore we'll have an FC bottleneck if we have more than 3 disks.)

The answer, of course, is that we want *connectivity* to more disks so that we can have more MB. It's OK if we hit a limit on MB/sec - as long as we have the MB available.
_________________________

How would you directly connect an XServe to 6 GigE networks, 4 FC SANs, and two IB fabrics?

Y O U __ C A N N O T !!

That's why I've argued for a larger server with more slots, redundant power, and the availability features needed for such use. The XServe is lacking in *connectivity*, and lacking in availability and reliability features.

[PeterQVenkman]

PeterQ, I didn't say I believe TS, nor that you don't need the performance that you'd get from some of these rumored specs (the threads you linked to). However, I do not believe that IBM can produce a 970-whatever that's clocked faster than the current high-end AMD processors. I just don't think you're going to see a single core 970 faster than 2.8 GHz or a dual-core faster than 2.4 GHz. I'd love to be wrong, but I just don't think anything above these clock rates are realistic at this time.

Oh, don't worry. I'm not uppity, just passionate! :)

But I think you may be right about proc speeds. If Steve presents these, bet on seeing that 3 Ghz. If he doesn't present them, expect a quiet release of lower specs (perhaps on a Monday and not on a stage) to avoid booing from professionals.

I still think the video cards are BS, though. Apple needs something like the FireGL to really help the 3d mac world. There is an article in 3d World (from Britain) called "Can Apple break into 3d?"

It is an eye opening article on what some REALLY high end professionals think of Apple. One of them basically said their secrecy hurts the business purchases. I would tend to agree. My company has not upgraded simply because we expect something new, and my boss came really, really close to switching us all to PCs. I managed to talk him out of that, so I stay on a Mac. but they lost three other employees in my 8 person company! We went from 1 PC and 7 macs to 3 PCs over night.

Yikes!

Even though I would join in on the booing if there was any, I'd still blush, turn around, and hand Apple $2500 for the middle of the road Rev c G5 the same day.

Aren't Apple users a pain in the ass? ;)

[dicklacara]

Do you use XGrid on your humongous XServe network?

The reason I am asking is that I've done some surfing & googling & think that Apple is going to announce XGrid-enabled versions of their Pro apps at NAB.

This would allow apps like Final Cut Pro to easily spread CPU & GPU intensive processes across multiple computers-- anywhere from some old G3s, low-end (maybe headless) minis to high-end XServes.

If this is true, Apple can satisfy a wide range of AV creators & have a competitive advantage that others won't be able to match for months (at almost any price).

I fooled around with XGrid & it is a piece of cake to use -- biggest down side is there aren't many programs available and processes that lend themselves to grid computing. Rendering AV frames or slides (maybe even h264 encoding) seem like naturals.

Seems like Apple could satisfy a whole lot of NAB people even if they don't announce revolutionary PMs.

[~loserman~]

Do you use XGrid on your humongous XServe network?

The reason I am asking is that I've done some surfing & googling & think that Apple is going to announce XGrid-enabled versions of their Pro apps at NAB.

This would allow apps like Final Cut Pro to easily spread CPU & GPU intensive processes across multiple computers-- anywhere from some old G3s, low-end (maybe headless) minis to high-end XServes.

If this is true, Apple can satisfy a wide range of AV creators & have a competitive advantage that others won't be able to match for months (at almost any price).

I fooled around with XGrid & it is a piece of cake to use -- biggest down side is there aren't many programs available and processes that lend themselves to grid computing. Rendering AV frames or slides (maybe even h264 encoding) seem like naturals.

Seems like Apple could satisfy a whole lot of NAB people even if they don't announce revolutionary PMs.

No we don't use Xgrid. It is too chatty to be of use to us. I also would doubt it's scalability to a system our size.

[animefan_1]

No we don't use Xgrid. It is too chatty to be of use to us.

What do you mean by 'chatty'?

I also would doubt it's scalability to a system our size.

I wouldn't doubt any technology (from any provider) unless you have had a chance to put it through its paces - or at least have read extensive reviews and articles of the technology in action.

[~loserman~]

If we followed your math, we'd question why an XServe RAID has more than 3 disks... (A disk can do roughly 70 MB/sec, the 2 Gbps FC can do about 200 MB/sec, therefore we'll have an FC bottleneck if we have more than 3 disks.)


Well actually the Drives used in the Xserves Raids average a sustained data rate around 42 MBs. 6 Drives give just a little more bandwidth than the Fibre Channel can provide. Of course if you count FC's bi-directional bandwidth then it has more than the drives. That is why Apple uses 2 independent raid controllers and 2 fiber channel connections to ea Xserve raid.

Also I personally can't think of any reason why someone would run 2 infiniband fabrics in one box. Especially considering that IB can deliver Full bi-sectional bandwidth at 10 Gig per second( every node can communicate with every other node at 10 Gig and all communicating at the same time without blocking). It doesn't make sense. For that matter it doesn't make sense for a server to have Quad Fiber channel either.

Personally I like the xserve like it is. The only thing I would change I/O wise would be to replace 1 PCI-X with a 16 X PCI-express.

Now if Apple decides in the next few years to build larger servers thats ok with me. I personally don't think they will. It isn't their market segment.

[dicklacara]

What do you mean by 'chatty'?



I wouldn't doubt any technology (from any provider) unless you have had a chance to put it through its paces - or at least have read extensive reviews and articles of the technology in action.

I smiled when he called it "Chatty" (brought back memories of AppleTalk & "Who's got the Data" packets).

XGid's chattiness polly comes about because of its use of BonJour (nee Rendezvous). Bonjour makes setup & distibution of workload easy, no trivial.

However, unless set otherwise, XGid processes will allways report back status-- even if not asked. AIR, you can control this to some extent.

Don't know about scaling!

But, I think that Apple could bypass BonJour, minimize the chattiness, and make it scale well for specific applications-- say encoding h264 DVD movies.

[~loserman~]

What do you mean by 'chatty'?



I wouldn't doubt any technology (from any provider) unless you have had a chance to put it through its paces - or at least have read extensive reviews and articles of the technology in action.

Xgrid uses the rendezvous service which is UDP based. In other words it uses broadcast traffic for communications.

[daveL]

How would you directly connect an XServe to 6 GigE networks, 4 FC SANs, and two IB fabrics?

Y O U __ C A N N O T !!

That's why I've argued for a larger server with more slots, redundant power, and the availability features needed for such use. The XServe is lacking in *connectivity*, and lacking in availability and reliability features.
Ummm, well, how about connecting 2 GigE links to 2 different, redundant GigE switches? The 2 FC links to 2 redundant FC switches? That's what switches are for. Since when does each system have point-to-point connectivity to everything the system needs to talk to?

(OK, now we hear about how ASs application can't tolerate the miniscule latency added by going through a GigE or FC switch to gain the connectivity required.)

[daveL]

Xgrid uses the rendezvous service which is UDP based. In other words it uses broadcast traffic for communications.
A geometric increase in the number of nodes results in an exponential increase in interconnect traffic.

[dicklacara]

A geometric increase in the number of nodes results in an exponential increase in interconnect traffic.
Yeah, they gotta fix that... "Shake your hand, I shouldn't even be in bed with you!"

[NevadaJack]

I have been glued to this thread since it started. I have been waiting for the announcement on the new iMac so I can purchase one. Reading through this thread has been enlightening. I have learned more about "dual core" and other terms of which I know absolutely nothing but not much about when or where the next iMac will be released for sale.

Steve Job's may be brilliant but his secrecy sucks! People want to make decisions which effect their business or personal needs and he plays this game of "gotcha." I wonder what the total effect on business decisions are changed by his reluctance to indicate what is coming down the pipe and when. How many sales are lost or expenditurea are altered. Other people run businesses also and have to make timely decisions on what is best for their products.

For a minute I don't think Steve Job's plays games with some of these web sites...he does not concern himself with a pest (his legal department can do that) but he does concern himself with stockholders, financial reports and the industry that he depends upon for his company's success. To indicate that he would alter an entire business plan to "play games" is nuts!

So I have had it with reading page after page of people discussing a subject they know absolutely nothing about...what the next hardware to be released by Apple will be and when it will be available. When I see a new iMac ad on the Apple site about a "REAL NEW iMac" then I will One Click and wait for delivery.

Just had to vent a little...too bad PC's and XP are such a pain in the A** :D

[dicklacara]

Steve Job's may be brilliant but his secrecy sucks! People want to make decisions which effect their business or personal needs and he plays this game of "gotcha." I wonder what the total effect on business decisions are changed by his reluctance to indicate what is coming down the pipe and when. How many sales are lost or expenditurea are altered. Other people run businesses also and have to make timely decisions on what is best for their products.


That's not realistic... Some companies, the industry leaders, can announce their [incremental] plans [real or imagined] without fear of competition. Apple cannot do the same-- they must announce and [shortly] deliver revolutionay products/concepts... the little guy needs to hit you upside the head... just to get your attention.

C'mon, how many IT Directors have lost their jobs because, Apple diidn't go public with their plans.

There are several people on this list that have been [privately] updated on Apple's plans on a regular basis.

For a minute I don't think Steve Job's plays games with some of these web sites...he does not concern himself with a pest (his legal department can do that) but he does concern himself with stockholders, financial reports and the industry that he depends upon for his company's success. To indicate that he would alter an entire business plan to "play games" is nuts!

I believe you are right about the rumor sites, but wrong about the stockholders. He wants to keep the stockholders happy for lots of reasons, but that's not what motivates him.

Steve Jobs truly wants to change the world... and he will do whatever it takes!

He is not playing games, he is totally serious... and it is likely he will prevail!

[LGRW3919]

the last few pages have been a bit of a segway off topic, haven't they?

[AidenShaw]

Well actually the Drives used in the Xserves Raids average a sustained data rate around 42 MBs.

I'll take your word on the 42 MB/sec - although I just measured 60 MB/sec on WD 250 GB disks on Ultra 100 and to HDS 400 GB disks on SATA, I wouldn't have expected them to be 25% slower on the XServe. The 70 MB/sec was for native Fujitsu FC disks.


Also I personally can't think of any reason why someone would run 2 infiniband fabrics in one box. Especially considering that IB can deliver Full bi-sectional bandwidth at 10 Gig per second( every node can communicate with every other node at 10 Gig and all communicating at the same time without blocking). It doesn't make sense.

If it "doesn't make sense", isn't it odd that most of the IB cards are dual port?

Think redundancy - with two fabrics, you can still communicate if there's a failure on one of the fabrics.


For that matter it doesn't make sense for a server to have Quad Fiber channel either.

Picture, worth a thousand words....

http://www.qlogic.com/images/pub/main/support_img/sbanner/qla2344.jpg
http://www.qlogic.com/support/product_resources.asp?id=339

Designed for high-connectivity applications, the SANblade QLA2344 is ideal in the slot-limited environment of PCI-X. With four fibre channel ports on one board in one slot, along with performance that scales as channels are added, the QLA2344 offers more channel and device connectivity while lowering overall system port cost.

Think DMP and redundancy. Or consider that an FC switch starts around $5K, and the quad adapter is $650. If you needed to connect two XServes, would you want to save $4500 ???


Personally I like the xserve like it is. The only thing I would change I/O wise would be to replace 1 PCI-X with a 16 X PCI-express.

The rest of the systems on the IB network use IB on PCIe cards (dual port).

http://www.topspin.com/solutions/images/photo_pci-ex.jpg

On a server, I'd go with two x8 PCIe slots, rather than one x16. There aren't many PCIe adapters, and the ones that exist are x4 and x8. (Unless you want kick-butt graphics on a server ;) )

[AidenShaw]

the last few pages have been a bit of a segway off topic, haven't they?

If the topic is what Apple might or should announce at NAB - not so much.

[mandwa]

Can't wait for the new powermacs, i'm sat here waiting for some new specs.
I wonder if the new revisions will include a £1000 base model like it does now? I was gonna buy a single 1.8 but if i wait and they drop this model i probably won't be able to afford it?

[Devie]

Can't wait for the new powermacs, i'm sat here waiting for some new specs.
I wonder if the new revisions will include a £1000 base model like it does now? I was gonna buy a single 1.8 but if i wait and they drop this model i probably won't be able to afford it?
hopefully they make the price of the Dual 2.0GHz at the current price of the Single 1.8... that would be my dreams come true. *Preys to geek God*

[minimax]

Releasing such an incremental update just (!) when Intel and AMD are announcing their dualcores seems like a public suicide...better to stay quiet and make it a real update in three months time, no?
Apple knows how to play the publicity game, these Thinksecret specs just don't convince.

[mad jew]

Releasing such an incremental update just (!) when Intel and AMD are announcing their dualcores seems like a public suicide...


That's a really good point I hadn't even thought of. And it's pretty encouraging too. :)

[minimax]

on the other hand...it could be a stopgap update if IBM didnt have their act together yet. In that case they are aiming at seducing the people who really NEED a powermac but refuse to pay for 1yr old specs & prices to buy now...whilst announcing a timeframe for the dualcore to arrive in order to keep the macplebs quiet. Even lower pricing just wont cut it after the other dualcores hit the street.

[ManchesterTrix]

He asked for high-end, not cheap chips.

Regarding PCIe being significantly more expensive, I'd like to see the price list.

It's not about the cost of PCIe compared to AGP, it's having to design new board, etc.

Also, cost does come into it since the mini is a BUDGET computer.

[ts1973]

Now that the NAB conference has come and gone, I believe the Powermac update is not as imminent as one might think. Another thought has struck me :
One would think that an updated PM will have to ship with Tiger, don't you guys ? In other words, why would Apple announce a new Powermac 2 weeks ahead of Tiger, when they can't ship it at least for another 2 weeks. My thought is that they'd better announce them when they can ship'em right away...

The only reason to announce them now would be to accompany the pro-apps updates (announced in the conference), but you would think Apple would've done this at the conference.

Lastly, the fact that they didn't announce the updated PM points clearly to the fact that any updates will be minor speed bumps that don't deserve too much press.

[ManchesterTrix]

My thought is that they'd better announce them when they can ship'em right away...

HAHAHAHAHAHHA. Ship them right away. That's hilarious. Best post!

[aswitcher]

Now that the NAB conference has come and gone, I believe the Powermac update is not as imminent as one might think. Another thought has struck me :
One would think that an updated PM will have to ship with Tiger, don't you guys ? In other words, why would Apple announce a new Powermac 2 weeks ahead of Tiger, when they can't ship it at least for another 2 weeks. My thought is that they'd better announce them when they can ship'em right away...

The only reason to announce them now would be to accompany the pro-apps updates (announced in the conference), but you would think Apple would've done this at the conference.

Lastly, the fact that they didn't announce the updated PM points clearly to the fact that any updates will be minor speed bumps that don't deserve too much press.


Or they want people to buy there new software not knowing that in 2 weeks they will have new hardware out which these people may have bought instead if given the choice...

[daveL]

Now that the NAB conference has come and gone, I believe the Powermac update is not as imminent as one might think. Another thought has struck me :
One would think that an updated PM will have to ship with Tiger, don't you guys ? In other words, why would Apple announce a new Powermac 2 weeks ahead of Tiger, when they can't ship it at least for another 2 weeks. My thought is that they'd better announce them when they can ship'em right away...

The only reason to announce them now would be to accompany the pro-apps updates (announced in the conference), but you would think Apple would've done this at the conference.

Lastly, the fact that they didn't announce the updated PM points clearly to the fact that any updates will be minor speed bumps that don't deserve too much press.
Well, they announced new Pro apps (today) that require Tiger and won't be available until the first of May. Why would Pro hardware be any different? Anyway, there's only 7 weeks left till WWDC. If we get a PM update this month, I don't think it will be anything more than a minor revision. If they don't get updated till WWDC, then I might believe dual-core based systems.

[blitzkrieg79]

I didnt expect new Powermacs (or any hardware) at NAB anyway but now macosrumors is saying that those thinksecret predicted processor speeds are most likely 970MPs but the question I have (and no one knows the answer) is whether Apple will release a new high end computer that will stand above PowerMacs because according to everything I have read and all, the Power5 derivatives are not that far away and wasnt the 970 series supposed to reach around 2.6-2.8 ghz and afterwards IBM and Apple was supposed to introduce Power5 derivative to reach 3GHZ? And as we can see 970FX GX or MP (whatever they are called) rather reached their MHZ limit... I may be too greedy too optimistic or whatever but I think that the Power5 derivative will definately be a more significant upgrade then going from 970FX to 970MP (or maybe the 970MP IS a Power5 derivative because why would Apple want to invest in technology that kind of disappointed their expectations when they supposedly worked with IBM on Power5 from grounds up rather then just tagged along)

[wdlove]

NAB still has 3 days left, ends the 21st. So there is still a chance that we could see a hardware update. Looking for a repeat of last year. It could also be the eMac, iBook, or iMac.

[iGary]

Why do I think we aren't going to see any updates? :(

[dicklacara]

I didnt expect new Powermacs (or any hardware) at NAB anyway but now macosrumors is saying that those thinksecret predicted processor speeds are most likely 970MPs but the question I have (and no one knows the answer) is whether Apple will release a new high end computer that will stand above PowerMacs because according to everything I have read and all, the Power5 derivatives are not that far away and wasnt the 970 series supposed to reach around 2.6-2.8 ghz and afterwards IBM and Apple was supposed to introduce Power5 derivative to reach 3GHZ? And as we can see 970FX GX or MP (whatever they are called) rather reached their MHZ limit... I may be too greedy too optimistic or whatever but I think that the Power5 derivative will definately be a more significant upgrade then going from 970FX to 970MP (or maybe the 970MP IS a Power5 derivative because why would Apple want to invest in technology that kind of disappointed their expectations when they supposedly worked with IBM on Power5 from grounds up rather then just tagged along)

It might make sense to have a Pro series hardware (PM Pro) for those that need ultra-high performance for AV creation-- as opposed to the PM series for other tasks.

[dicklacara]

Why do I think we aren't going to see any updates? :(

The party hasn't even started... so far we have heard one hand clapping!

[aswitcher]

Intel is releasing Dual Cores on Wednesday...could Apple possibly trump them?

[danm]

Intel is releasing Dual Cores on Wednesday...could Apple possibly trump them?

Captain Obvious says "We'll know within two days!"

[powerbook911]

Intel is releasing Dual Cores on Wednesday...could Apple possibly trump them?

This is really going to give me an urge to order a Powermac. argh :(

[Platform]

Intel is releasing Dual Cores on Wednesday...could Apple possibly trump them?

Well how about tuesday :p

[le_coc]

Must be today; like last year! I feel it new powermacs at least today!

think about 1,5 more hours and then apple Store will "close"!!

[crawdad62]

Well according to Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050417-4815.html) they aren't going to beat AMD which is releasing a dual core today. Heck they won't beat Intel either. :(

[gate]

I don't like MOSR but I really hope they're right:

http://macosrumors.com/20050417.php

[NevadaJack]

I don't like MOSR but I really hope they're right:

http://macosrumors.com/20050417.php

I said in an earlier rant that I would not read this thread anymore...
:)

Well that didn't last long. I don't have any opinion about MOSR but also hope they are correct! It would sure help the many frustrated iMac and PM users looking for updates. Maybe this week...NAB exhibits open this morning and if anything is announced, I have a VIP Badge and will be down to the CC in a flash to see what's new.

[ts1973]

I don't like MOSR but I really hope they're right:

http://macosrumors.com/20050417.php

Well, if they're right, and the machines are a new bread of ultra-powermacs, this isn't such good news for the rest of us, because these ultra machines will be sold for ultra-premium prices. Anyway : all of this is very speculative of course.

I just want/need a new powermac for my business, any specifiacations will do (but not those of 1 year ago at the prices of a year ago).

[Platform]

I don't like MOSR but I really hope they're right:

http://macosrumors.com/20050417.php

That would be sweet but hope it would not make the prices go up though :o

[Cooknn]

That would be sweet but hope it would not make the prices go up though :oWell, Dell's dual core offering is going to start at $2,999.

Dell will feature the dual-core chips in its Dell Precision 380 workstation as well as its next-generation Dell Dimension XPS desktop, which will be priced beginning at $2,999

If Apple enters the fray with a Dual Core Power Mac Pro, I bet they start at $3,999 :(

[Platform]

Well, Dell's dual core offering is going to start at $2,999.

Dell will feature the dual-core chips in its Dell Precision 380 workstation as well as its next-generation Dell Dimension XPS desktop, which will be priced beginning at $2,999

If Apple enters the fray with a Dual Core Power Mac Pro, I bet they start at $3,999 :(

Damn.......... :mad:

Well hope they will sell some chaper :rolleyes: :o

[Platform]

Well, Dell's dual core offering is going to start at $2,999.

Dell will feature the dual-core chips in its Dell Precision 380 workstation as well as its next-generation Dell Dimension XPS desktop, which will be priced beginning at $2,999

If Apple enters the fray with a Dual Core Power Mac Pro, I bet they start at $3,999 :(

Thanks
Damn.......... :mad:

Well hope they will sell some chaper :rolleyes: :o

Edit sorry for doubble post :o

[Cooknn]

Damn.......... :mad:

Well hope they will sell some chaper :rolleyes: :oHey, it's just a guess ;) Not like I'm in the market for a new box. I just like to see Apple stay competitive regarding specs.

[FlyNolJ]

I don't like MOSR but I really hope they're right:

http://macosrumors.com/20050417.php


Apple will announce a line named ProMac, and the PowerMac will slowly be faded out. Specs of Dual-Core 3.0ghz/PCI-Express/Blu-Ray/more RAM will come soon.

Prices starting at 2,999?

[dongmin]

Well, Dell's dual core offering is going to start at $2,999.

Dell will feature the dual-core chips in its Dell Precision 380 workstation as well as its next-generation Dell Dimension XPS desktop, which will be priced beginning at $2,999

If Apple enters the fray with a Dual Core Power Mac Pro, I bet they start at $3,999 :(Are the Dell's dual duals?

Apple might be able to get away with a $3999 system if they were dual duals or QUADs. And as others have suggested, Apple can market these as "Power Stations" geared at video production houses.

But this is all moot, me thinks. Dual-cores would call for a big announcement. The Apple NAB announcement came and went without a wimper about hardware. My guess is that a minor upgrade along the lines of a dual 2.7 (970fx) will surface tomorrow without any fanfare. Maybe in two months, Apple will be ready to announce 3.0 dual-cores at the WWDC. But that would be unprecedented, in terms of time between upgrades. More likely, it'll be September when Apple announces anything dramatic.

Optimistic scenario
Tomorrow: minor speedbump to dual proc 2.7 ghz, as speced by TS.
WWDC: Apple introduces the PowerStation line with quad procs (dual duals)

More likely
Tomorrow: minor speedbumps
September: Power Macs go dual-cores

[pgre]

Optimistic scenario
Tomorrow: minor speedbump to dual proc 2.7 ghz, as speced by TS.
WWDC: Apple introduces the PowerStation line with quad procs (dual duals)

More likely
Tomorrow: minor speedbumps
September: Power Macs go dual-cores

Worst Case Scenario
Tomorrow: Nothing gets announced, I get delusional keep looking at the Apple website (and continue delaying my PowerMac order), This thread goes on for another 20 or so pages etc etc..

:)

[Cooknn]

Apple will announce a line named ProMac, and the PowerMac will slowly be faded out. Specs of Dual-Core 3.0ghz/PCI-Express/Blu-Ray/more RAM will come soon.

Prices starting at 2,999?And then you woke up? ;)

[FlyNolJ]

And then you woke up? ;)


I'll wake up hopfully in 12 minutes when NAB doors open. If there's nothing, I'll go back to sleep.

[blitzkrieg79]

My predictions i that Apple will probably reschuffle their line up a bit and probably introduce a totally new high end line... So basically Powermacs will get their prices lowered and offer either dual 970GXs or single 970MPs and the new ProMac line will be all dual dual core 970MPs (but I really hope for Power5 derivatives which I think is possible since those ProMacs will be expensive anyway so large quantities of Power5 derivatives wont be needed at the beginning since most people wont be able to afford them anyway, basically a REAL PRO COMP...

[wdlove]

Apple will announce a line named ProMac, and the PowerMac will slowly be faded out. Specs of Dual-Core 3.0ghz/PCI-Express/Blu-Ray/more RAM will come soon.

Prices starting at 2,999?

The name ProMac sounds very fitting since, they are primarily made for professionals. Wonder what life span the PowerMac has left. This is going to be a very exciting run up to WWDC. Apple needs to decrease the gap that now occurs.

[vtprinz]

I'll wake up hopfully in 12 minutes when NAB doors open. If there's nothing, I'll go back to sleep.

...goodnight :(

[wdlove]

...goodnight :(

Sleep tight. ;) Let not your heart be trouble, there is still Tuesday which is often a big day for Apple. No reason to be disappointed yet. NAB doesn't end till the 21st.

[FlyNolJ]

I guess I will go to bed. Blah. I might even skip class. Haha

[~loserman~]

My guess is that a minor upgrade along the lines of a dual 2.7 (970fx) will surface tomorrow without any fanfare. Maybe in two months, Apple will be ready to announce 3.0 dual-cores at the WWDC. But that would be unprecedented, in terms of time between upgrades. More likely, it'll be September when Apple announces anything dramatic.


Don't expect clock speeds of the dual cores to be 3Ghz. It isn't going to happen.
When the dual cores come they will be clocked between 2.3 and 2.7Ghz.
Watch and see.

[Blue Moon]

Don't expect clock speeds of the dual cores to be 3Ghz. It isn't going to happen.
When the dual cores come they will be clocked between 2.3 and 2.7Ghz.
Watch and see.

At this point I'd like to see any update at all.

[Sunrunner]

At this point I'd like to see any update at all.


I second that, we are way overdue for new hardware to spend our money on here. I sold my MDD 1.25 dualie last winter on the expectations of an update promised by Steve. Now I find myself stuck on my 500Mhz TiBook waiting, and waiting, and waiting....

Perhaps I should just time warp ahead about 5 years and get whatever the top of the line hardware and software is then... now THAT would be sweet.

[Cooknn]

Don't expect clock speeds of the dual cores to be 3Ghz. It isn't going to happen.
When the dual cores come they will be clocked between 2.3 and 2.7Ghz.
Watch and see.One way or another Steve needs to get to 3Ghz and make good on the promise.

[madmaxmedia]

One way or another Steve needs to get to 3Ghz and make good on the promise.

Dual-core would effectively give you better than 3GHz performance anyways, so who cares?

Steve has little to do with when a 3GHz Mac comes out. IBM's engineers will basically determine when, and the entire industry is having problems with increasing clock speeds right now.

[Cooknn]

Dual-core would effectively give you better than 3GHz performance anyways, so who cares?

Steve has little to do with when a 3GHz Mac comes out. IBM's engineers will basically determine when, and the entire industry is having problems with increasing clock speeds right now.Ok, you can have a dual core dual 1.5Ghz (hypothetical). I'll take the dual 3Ghz. I guess it's about perception - and right now, well for as long as I can remember, Apple has been perceived as having chips with clockspeeds that can't keep up with Intel (I know about the Mhz myth). It may not make sense, but I'd at least like to see them get in the ballpark - which IHMO is 3Ghz for now. Regarding Steve - he's the one who went out on a limb. I bet IBM's engineers cringed when he made the 3Ghz statement :rolleyes:

[Some_Big_Spoon]

so, where are these things? Getting pretty tired of waiting.

[pgre]

Steve has little to do with when a 3GHz Mac comes out. IBM's engineers will basically determine when, and the entire industry is having problems with increasing clock speeds right now.

The other thing is for all those who keep mentioning Steve's 3GHz promise.. well he promised they would be there in a year and they weren't.. simple as that. So his promise has been broken.

So still expecting him to deliver on a broken promise doesn't make that much sense anymore.

Also ask AMD to give you a 3GHz proc and you will see they are not there either... due to the different architecture. A Dual core up to 2.7GHz will be a nice piece of kit so I think it maybe time to let the 3GHz promise drop now..

[deputy_doofy]

The other thing is for all those who keep mentioning Steve's 3GHz promise.. well he promised they would be there in a year and they weren't.. simple as that. So his promise has been broken.

So still expecting him to deliver on a broken promise doesn't make that much sense anymore.

Also ask AMD to give you a 3GHz proc and you will see they are not there either... due to the different architecture. A Dual core up to 2.7GHz will be a nice piece of kit so I think it maybe time to let the 3GHz promise drop now..

Yeah, I agree. I'd much rather have a dual-dual-core 2.7 than a regular dual-processor 3.0.
I don't care about perception. I care about performance. From what I understand, dual-cores are faster anyway. A dual-dual-core should be blazing (in theory, anyway).

[Zaty]

Now we know everything we have to know. The next revision is just a speed bump. No revolutionary changes.

Link:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html

[deputy_doofy]

Now we know everything we have to know. The next revision is just a speed bump. No revolutionary changes.

Link:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html

You beat me to it. I was just about to post this. Well, I'm buying a new PowerMac, regardless, but would have loved dual-core. Still, after using a 1GHz G4 Powerbook (only) for the last 2 years, a G5 anything is going to be great.

[daveL]

Now we know everything we have to know. The next revision is just a speed bump. No revolutionary changes.

Link:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html
Sounds about right to me. Nothing major till summer.

[dosers]

September/October at the earliest. There is, and really never was any way Apple could get the Dual Core Chips in volume any time soon. There won't be any new Powermacs announced until Macworld in Paris, probably shipping around November. And, these certainly will be the dual-core chips....

Just my 2 cents... ;-)

Sounds about right to me. Nothing major till summer.

[FlyNolJ]

So when is the REAL DEAL going to be released? This revision is is like setting a chip in it's chipset. How ********** lame. When's the next revision???? WWDC, or Paris?? I'm talking 2006 by the way....

[deputy_doofy]

Sounds about right to me. Nothing major till summer.

This comment intrigues me. Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance, but when has Apple ever done an update just to turn around and do another, better update 3 months later?
The closest thing I can remember to that would be the update to Powerbooks, and that was more of a new form-factor (external metal and size). The actual guts of the machine stayed the same.

I just notice every year that people think Apple will do a major update very quickly after doing a speed bump but I can think of no time they have done that before.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[dosers]

Oh, come on. Yes, it's disappointing, but in the end, what's so bad about the current Dual 2.5 PMs ? They run everything very well, aren't they ? I think these speed bumps are fine. Remember, it's really US that had these big expectations about something that no-one has ever seen working (i.e. the PPC Dual-Core chips) yet, Xbox 360 included. I think getting them toward the end of the year is just fine. And my bet is, other than us here on these boards, no-one will really care this didn't happen 'yet'. :-)


So when is the REAL DEAL going to be released? This revision is is like setting a chip in it's chipset. How ********** lame. When's the next revision???? WWDC, or Paris?? I'm talking 2006 by the way....

[topgunn]

The question that remains unanswered is pricing. It appears that the SP PowerMac will go the way of the dodo yet again leaving a hole somewhere in the lineup.

So the question is, will the dual 2.0GHz machine be priced at $1,999 or $1,499 (or somewhere between)? In other words, will the hole in the lineup be at the top or the bottom. If it is priced at $1,499, I would consider this round of upgrades to be a positive for 99% of users (not for uber power users). At that price, I am sure that quite a few people would whip out their credit cards and order that day. However, if it is priced at $1,999, Apple will continue to upset even more people and I, personally, will opt for a refurbished dual 1.8GHz PowerMac which hopefully will have dropped in price to make room for the new 2.0GHz pricing.

On a side note, often times when Apple reduces the amount of items in a particular product line, it is because there are plans to fill that hole in the near future. Is it possible that Apple is intentionally leaving a hole at the $2,999 price point to allow for a dual core PowerMac to occupy that space around the time of WWDC?

[dosers]

You are right - there is no way PMs are coming out this summer. Apple uses a parts turnaround that is fairly fast, but still uses inventory (Dell, for example, has no inventory; they have a truck docking at their warehouse, stuff gets take off it to the line, the truck leaves, cutting costs and having fresh inventory daily). Apple doesn't get new chips (as the multipliers are on-chip as far as I know) for 3 months only. Again, in my opinion, we're looking at new system toward the end of the year, around November, maybe October....

d

This comment intrigues me. Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance, but when has Apple ever done an update just to turn around and do another, better update 3 months later?
The closest thing I can remember to that would be the update to Powerbooks, and that was more of a new form-factor (external metal and size). The actual guts of the machine stayed the same.

I just notice every year that people think Apple will do a major update very quickly after doing a speed bump but I can think of no time they have done that before.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[daveL]

This comment intrigues me. Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance, but when has Apple ever done an update just to turn around and do another, better update 3 months later?
The closest thing I can remember to that would be the update to Powerbooks, and that was more of a new form-factor (external metal and size). The actual guts of the machine stayed the same.

I just notice every year that people think Apple will do a major update very quickly after doing a speed bump but I can think of no time they have done that before.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
It has been a while since the PM was last updated, and I don't see that Apple has room to update the other desktops without giving the PM line a speed bump. They can't really leave all the desktops to languish, waiting on a major PM revision. I said summer to allow for some wiggle room. That could be WWDC, with shipments starting in July, or Paris (September), with shipments in October. If it's the latter, then it will still be 6 months between PM updates. Who knows.

[deputy_doofy]

It has been a while since the PM was last updated, and I don't see that Apple has room to update the other desktops without giving the PM line a speed bump. They can't really leave all the desktops to languish, waiting on a major PM revision. I said summer to allow for some wiggle room. That could be WWDC, with shipments starting in July, or Paris (September), with shipments in October. If it's the latter, then it will still be 6 months between PM updates. Who knows.

Don't get me wrong. It would be great, in some respects, if they did update it again as early as summer. It would only be bad because I'm buying a G5 whenever they are finally updated and it would suck (for me) to watch them get updated so quickly after that.

Now, I wonder whether to get the 2.7 or the 2.3........

[blitzkrieg79]

Now we know everything we have to know. The next revision is just a speed bump. No revolutionary changes.

Link:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html

So if Think Secret is right then all Apple and IBM could develop was 200MHZ over almost a year? I am starting to wonder why was the president of Sony in January on stage for... Year of HD, reality is that even dual core dual Opteron or Xeon or 970MPs still wont be able to smoothly and quickly edit encode decode HD video (including the H.264 standard) SO considering that IBM and Apple could only develop 200mhz is proving my theory that the dual core and 3GHZ wont be accomplished by 970 (power4 derivative) but by a power5 derivative and all those 970GX and 970MPs were probably rumors or at best bad prototypes (and please dont tell me that its ALL IBMs fault because best to my knowledge there are also Apples engineers involved in the G5/G6 development) and also I am wondering about Apples involvement with the CELL chip as it seems to be the only REAL Year of HD solution unless Apples definition of processing HD video is a lot less demanding then mine...

[~loserman~]

September/October at the earliest. There is, and really never was any way Apple could get the Dual Core Chips in volume any time soon. There won't be any new Powermacs announced until Macworld in Paris, probably shipping around November. And, these certainly will be the dual-core chips....

Just my 2 cents... ;-)

I have posted this several times already....but here it goes again.
The reason Apple isn't releasing the dual core PPC970 series is because they are not available yet.
We are in negotiation with IBM for JS20 system of 256 processors that will grow to 1024. We discussed when the dual cores will be available and IBM told us late January.
Apple will get them about 3 or 4 months before IBM starts using them. Apple has a contractual agreement with IBM to get the newer chips both speed wise and dual core before IBM can use them themselves.
This is shown in the status of JS20 blades vs Xserves.
When Apple released the 2.0 Xserves IBM used 1.6. When Apple started using 2.3's back in JULY 2004( and yes they were not announced until January 2005: but they were available to select customers in July) IBM started selling the 2.2s in OCT. IBM lags Apples upgrades by 3 to 4 months every time.
IBM will start selling 2.5s in their blade servers in August which also coincides with Apples 2.7s that will be available any day now.

Therefore don't expect the dual-cores until at the very earliest WWDC and the latest Sept-OCT

[deputy_doofy]

I have posted this several times already....but here it goes again.
The reason Apple isn't releasing the dual core PPC970 series is because they are not available yet.
We are in negotiation with IBM for JS20 system of 256 processors that will grow to 1024. We discussed when the dual cores will be available and IBM told us late January.
Apple will get them about 3 or 4 months before IBM starts using them. Apple has a contractual agreement with IBM to get the newer chips both speed wise and dual core before IBM can use them themselves.
This is shown in the status of JS20 blades vs Xserves.
When Apple released the 2.0 Xserves IBM used 1.6. When Apple started using 2.3's back in JULY 2004( and yes they were not announced until January 2005: but they were available to select customers in July) IBM started selling the 2.2s in OCT. IBM lags Apples upgrades by 3 to 4 months every time.
IBM will start selling 2.5s in their blade servers in August which also coincides with Apples 2.7s that will be available any day now.

Therefore don't expect the dual-cores until at the very earliest WWDC and the latest Sept-OCT

If there is the slightest chance of releasing them at WWDC, why bother to release anything now? We're only about 6 weeks away from WWDC.
People waited a year last time for 1 update, they can do it again.
Of course, they could release the 2.7 now and simply wait until Jan. 06 to do the big update.

[iGary]

At this point, I don't give a hoot about the dual-core. It'll happen this year, I don't need one.

I need a sub-2,000 dual 2.0, and yes, four DIMM slots are fine as long as each processor gets a 1GHz FSB and it comes with a 128-256 vid card.

PCI-X make no matta me.

Credit card waiting.

[G.Kirby]

At this point, I don't give a hoot about the dual-core. It'll happen this year, I don't need one.

I need a sub-2,000 dual 2.0, and yes, four DIMM slots are fine as long as each processor gets a 1GHz FSB and it comes with a 128-256 vid card.

PCI-X make no matta me.

Credit card waiting.

Here - here! I have to get a PMac in the next couple of weeks. Any little upgrades will be sweet (more RAM, better vid card Etc.). It's the hangin' around that gets to me, and sods law the day after my new Pmac gets delivered........... :mad:

:(

[ts1973]

At this point, I don't give a hoot about the dual-core. It'll happen this year, I don't need one.

I need a sub-2,000 dual 2.0, and yes, four DIMM slots are fine as long as each processor gets a 1GHz FSB and it comes with a 128-256 vid card.

PCI-X make no matta me.

Credit card waiting.

Absolutely right. And the sooner it gets here the better.

[FlyNolJ]

Oh, come on. Yes, it's disappointing, but in the end, what's so bad about the current Dual 2.5 PMs ? They run everything very well, aren't they ? I think these speed bumps are fine. Remember, it's really US that had these big expectations about something that no-one has ever seen working (i.e. the PPC Dual-Core chips) yet, Xbox 360 included. I think getting them toward the end of the year is just fine. And my bet is, other than us here on these boards, no-one will really care this didn't happen 'yet'. :-)


You're right, these "updates," as one could call them, are sufficient enough...for six months ago. No PCI-express, no Blu-Ray. What kind of video card are we gauranteed? Are we even gauranteed the 16x double-layer DVD burner>? If this is all they are putting out after 10 months, then the prices better drop $ 1000 and then MAYBE, we'll have something going for us.

[pknz]

IMHO I believe Blu-Ray drives are asking a bit much. Until Blu-Ray discs are more "main-stream," I know alot will say Apple should take the initiative and lead the pack by bringing it out first, but they should concentrate on getting their computers more up to par with PC counterparts with PCI-Express, Dual layer DVDs burners, etc.

[~loserman~]

You're right, these "updates," as one could call them, are sufficient enough...for six months ago. No PCI-express, no Blu-Ray. What kind of video card are we gauranteed? Are we even gauranteed the 16x double-layer DVD burner>? If this is all they are putting out after 10 months, then the prices better drop $ 1000 and then MAYBE, we'll have something going for us.

IMO the prices wont drop significantly. Apple would have updated them more if they could they just didn't have the processors to do it.

It is possible that TS has the cache sizes wrong and these processors are the rumored 970GX instead of 970FX
IF the processors they will be using are the 970GX with 1Meg cache, then this will improve performance more than the speed bump would normally indicate.

I agree that no PCIe is a letdown but it would only be useful for Video cards in the Tower.

[FlyNolJ]

But don't you think we could have more than 200MHZ and a couple hundred megs of RAM after 10 months>??? That's why I'm saying prices better be low low low. By the way, what's IHMO & IMO??????

[ts1973]

But don't you think we could have more than 200MHZ and a couple hundred megs of RAM after 10 months>??? That's why I'm saying prices better be low low low. By the way, what's IHMO & IMO??????

IMO = In my opinion
IMHO = In my humble opinion

I would be surprised if we saw any upgrades before the release of Tiger, as I've said before. Just my 2c.

[wdlove]

IMO = In my opinion
IMHO = In my humble opinion

I would be surprised if we saw any upgrades before the release of Tiger, as I've said before. Just my 2c.

There isn't any real reason why they couldn't announce before the Tiger release. Just not ship till after the 29th. If there isn't an update till WWDC, would seem to indicate something special. Steve likes to announce the new Mac's.

[DaveP]

Hey Everybody! I just wanted to tell people that I read the entire thread! I have too much free time. :D
After reading everything, I just hope that I can get a cheap 2 to 2.5 Ghz PM for fairly cheap.

[MarkCollette]

I agree that no PCIe is a letdown but it would only be useful for Video cards in the Tower.

In another thread, some people were pointing out that current graphics cards do not even max out AGP 8X bandwidth, so putting in PCIe won't help anything. Sure, it adds future expandability, but it increases costs in the immediate term with no immediate benefit.

[MarkCollette]

With the court ruling against all those RAM manufacturers for price fixing, I think it should be expected that computers will either get price drops or extra RAM, simply because RAM prices should now drop.

That should be in addition to whatever other price drops or upgrades would normally happen from the other components getting cheaper over time.

[LGRW3919]

its getting to the point now of no return. will apple release an updated powermac in the coming week or two or will they wait to WWDC to bust out the big guns?

[aswitcher]

its getting to the point now of no return. will apple release an updated powermac in the coming week or two or will they wait to WWDC to bust out the big guns?


Yeah, as someone else pointed out what are they going to show off at WWDC if they release all there hardware in the next week or so...?

[daveL]

Yeah, as someone else pointed out what are they going to show off at WWDC if they release all there hardware in the next week or so...?
Come on, you know the answer to that: The PowerBook G5!!!!

[aswitcher]

Come on, you know the answer to that: The PowerBook G5!!!!

Dont you mean "Powerbook Dual Core G5, with HD resolution screen (1920x1080)" :D

[daveL]

Dont you mean "Powerbook Dual Core G5, with HD resolution screen (1920x1080)" :D
And you left out Blu-Ray? Come on, get with the program!

[Flickta]

In another thread, some people were pointing out that current graphics cards do not even max out AGP 8X bandwidth, so putting in PCIe won't help anything. Sure, it adds future expandability, but it increases costs in the immediate term with no immediate benefit.

Adding FW 800 was just that - adding a cool feature, which was of no use for anyone at the time.

It is a question of overall "freshness" of the design. PC manufacturers win in that field, while Apple is making lots of money on every 100 Mhz increase...

[Robbrag]

Okay, imac shipping on the Apple site just went from same business day to 5 to 7 business days. Updates this week for sure. :D

[pknz]

All iMacs shipping times have changed from "Same business day" to 5-7 days on the Apple Store (USA).

Powermacs still 3-5 for the duals.

Holding my breath...for iMac.

Please Apple!

[Platform]

Dont you mean "Powerbook Dual Core G5, with HD resolution screen (1920x1080)" :D

You don't need 1920x1080 for it to be HD

Anything above or 1280x720 is true HD ;)

[le_coc]

Maybe we are totaly misled and will they announce new iMac tuesday and wait with powermacs untill the WWDC would that not be fun? ;)

[~loserman~]

You don't need 1920x1080 for it to be HD

Anything above or 1280x720 is true HD ;)

100% correct

[aswitcher]

100% correct

True but there are degrees of HDTV and 1080i is the highest.

[Rootman]

True but there are degrees of HDTV and 1080i is the highest.But you don't do 1080i (interlaced) on a laptop screen.

[uncle]

UK Apple Store: "Ready to ship: 5 days"........ signifying?????

Probable update: Current line will ship with Tiger pre-installed. :)

If we're real lucky the G5 Towers will get a minor speed bump to 2.7 at the top end. (fantasy land: the duals become single chip machines and run slightly cooler hence the speed bump)

At WWDC we may or may not get the dual cores. (fantasy land: low end macs single chip dual 1.8 2.0 2.2. High end dual duals 2.0 2.3 2.7

:D :D :D

[Rootman]

UK Apple Store: "Ready to ship: 5 days"........ signifying?????

Probable update: Current line will ship with Tiger pre-installed. :)
They don't hold shipping to install an OS that hasn't been released yet. They would ship with Panther and update later, just as they are doing with the eMacs. They only delay for an unannounced hardware upgrade that would otherwise necessitate hardware returns from customers who would have outdated computers in transit when the upgrade is announced.

Probable update: Current line (except eMacs) will ship with upgraded specs.

[Platform]

True but there are degrees of HDTV and 1080i is the highest.

Yes that might be so......but you said HD and that starts at 1280x720...and anyway do you need that much on a lappy :confused:

[arklab]

All iMacs shipping times have changed from "Same business day" to 5-7 days on the Apple Store (USA).

Powermacs still 3-5 for the duals.

Holding my breath...for iMac.

Please Apple!

Yes, but the BTO's are now 7-10 days.

Could it be??? :D

Finally, an upgrade to my current Apple ... an Apple ][+.
(Yea, really. And it still works fine!)

[dosers]

Well, if we really were to nitpick, 1080p would be the highest current extension to the ATASC HDTV Format (native 1080p in, rather than upconvert to p, as it's done on most TVs that can do all the pixels - LCOS for example - today). But the new DLP models this year are finally 1080(p) as well.
:-)
Cheers,
Dan

True but there are degrees of HDTV and 1080i is the highest.

[cosmoed]

I am crossing my fingers for an Amazon blunder this morning.

[le_coc]

Store is finally offline!

[aswitcher]

Store is finally offline!


Australia is down also

[iWantAMac]

Australia is down also
How long does it normally take for an update like this?

[NevadaJack]

Well what is the latest on the updated iMac? Are we going to see the Store post information before next Tuesday or should we check the Amazon site? :confused: :( :mad:

[crawdad62]

Well what is the latest on the updated iMac? Are we going to see the Store post information before next Tuesday or should we check the Amazon site? :confused: :( :mad:

Yeah! What about us guys! :)

I actually thought the samething. Yesterday I figured it would be better to check Amazon than to go to Apple and check there.