PowerMac G5, iMac G5, eMac Specs

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret cites (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504macs.html) "highly reliable" source to provide us with detailed specs about upcoming hardware releases.

The new PowerMacs are said to top out at 2.7GHz in the following configurations:

Dual 2.0GHz, Dual 2.3GHz and Dual 2.7GHz with 512MB RAM featuring SuperDrives with dual-layer DVD+R support. No reliable info if the new processors will offer the multi-core 970MP or not.

The iMac G5 will reach 2GHz with two 17" and one 20" configuration, while the eMac will come with 1.25 and 1.42 GHz G4 processors as well an upgraded video card (64MB ATI Radeon 9600) to take advantage of Tiger's Core Image.

[JRM PowerPod]

Cool, just need dual core info

HERE WE GO

Revealed: New Power Mac G5, iMac G5, eMac Specs


By Ryan Katz, Senior Editor
April 14, 2005 - Highly reliable sources have confirmed the specifications of Apple's forthcoming revisions to its Power Mac G5, iMac G5 and eMac systems, expected to start shipping within a few days of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger's April 29th release.

New Power Mac G5 systems, code-named Q87, will top out at 2.7GHz, sources said, while video cards are being upgraded with double the SDRAM. All models will feature SuperDrives offering dual-layer DVD+R support, as well as DVD±RW/CD-RW compatibility.

Three primary configurations will be offered with the following specifications:
Dual-2GHz
512K L2 cache per processor
Dual 1GHz frontside buses
512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (4GB max.)
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
128MB DDR SDRAM ATI Radeon 9600 video card

Dual-2.3GHz
512K L2 cache per processor
Dual 1.15GHz frontside buses
512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (8GB max.)
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
128MB DDR SDRAM ATI Radeon 9600 video card

Dual-2.7GHz
512K L2 cache per processor
Dual 1.35GHz frontside buses
512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (8GB max.)
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
256MB DDR SDRAM ATI Radeon 9650 video card

Sources were unable to confirm at this time whether the systems will sport the dual-core PowerPC 970MP processor or the single-core PowerPC 970GX, although unconfirmed notes point to the PowerPC 970MP. The second core would deliver performance gains far greater than the 200-300MHz bumps each processor is receiving alone with the update.

Also uncertain is whether a more affordable single-processor Power Mac G5 system will continue to be offered. After axing the model with last June's Power Mac G5 revision, Apple re-introduced the less expensive 1.8GHz single-processor system in October 2004.

iMac G5, eMac

As first reported over a month ago, the updated iMac G5, code-named Q45 C/D, will reach 2GHz, while video memory is doubled to 128MB and the card itself upgraded to ATI's Radeon 9600. All models will also feature Bluetooth 2.0 and will ship pre-installed with Tiger and iLife '05.

Two 17-inch and one 20-inch model will continue to be offered in the following configurations:

"Good" 17-inch, 1.8GHz
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
Combo Drive (CD-RW/DVD-ROM)

"Better" 17-inch, 2GHz
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
SuperDrive (supporting dual-layer as well as DVD±RW/CD-RW burning)

"Best" 20-inch, 2GHz
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive

SuperDrive (supporting dual-layer as well as DVD±RW/CD-RW burning)
Other specifications will remain unchanged; pricing is expected to remain in line with current models.

Two eMac models, code-named Q86J, will continue to be available and will have their G4 processors bumped from 1.25GHz to 1.42GHz. The eMacs will also see their 32MB ATI Radeon 9200 video card upgraded to a 64MB ATI Radeon 9600 card, to take full advantage of new graphics capabilities found in Tiger's Core Image technology.

The low-end, Combo Drive eMac will feature 256MB of DDR SDRAM and an 80MB hard drive, while the SuperDrive eMac will pack 512MB of DDR SDRAM and a 160GB hard drive. Like the Power Mac G5 and iMac G5, the SuperDrive eMac will be capable of burning to dual-layer DVD+R media, as well as DVD±RW and CD-RW. It's unclear whether prices will be shaved slightly or remain the same.

[jbrown]

When will they hit three

[superkatalog]

hm. for how many money.. that ist the question for me.

[Zaty]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret cites (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504macs.html) "highly reliable" source to provide us with detailed specs about upcoming hardware releases.

The new PowerMacs are said to top out at 2.7GHz in the following configurations:

Dual 2.0GHz, Dual 2.3GHz and Dual 2.7GHz with 512MB RAM featuring SuperDrives with dual-layer DVD+R support. No reliable info if the new processors will offer the multi-core 970MP or not.

The iMac G5 will reach 2GHz with two 17" and one 20" configuration, while the eMac will come with 1.25 and 1.42 GHz G4 processors as well an upgraded video card (64MB ATI Radeon 9600) to take advantage of Tiger's Core Image.

While the upgrades for iMacs and eMacs are great (except for the 256 MB RAM at the low-end), the value of the PM upgrades depends on the CPU. While a dual 2.7 GHz 970MP would be amazing (it would probably be faster than a dual 3.0 GHz 970FX/GX system), a dual 2.7 GHz FX/GX system wouldn't be a huge improvement, given the time since the last update. ONTH, better GPUs and better SuperDrives along with lower prices could still improve the value of such a system even if it's "only" a FX/GX CPU.

[MacRy]

Not a huge increase in the top end. They must be struggling with those G5's.

[macridah]

512 MB standard is much better but should of been done a while ago.

iMac hitting 2 GHz is cool, that's what I've been waiting for.

With these upgrades, I also hope the price comes down.

[rockthecasbah]

i sent that story in, too...woot. Very dissapointing about the Power Macs not reaching 3ghz though. iMacs sound awesome though, they will sell a ton... :)

[broken_keyboard]

Pretty disappointing that they didn't make 3GHz on the PM. Doesn't the Intel Pentium 4 Extreme 840 go at 4GHz?

I was super sure I wanted to upgrade my 2003 Dual 2.0 but will have to wait and see now.

[FireArse]

Hey all,

I'm quite happy with my 3month old Dual 2.0GHz powermac - however i would love to get hold of one of those new DVD+RW DL drives (featured in the possible PM update) on its own. Where would i be able to find the actual model number of those drives and get a gold of a Mac compatible one?

How easy would it be to get hold of and install? Would Tiger (pre-ordered) just 'work' with it?

Thanks,

FireArse

[dubbz]

About time they're doing something with the GPUs. It's a nice upgrade from the 5200 and 9200s. Dual Layer capability on the burner is nice too.

I do wonder what they're going to do with the single CPU PM. It's the most likely option for me if I ever buy a desktop Mac. The duals are too expensive for me...

[toontra]

If the Powermacs don't have the dual-core processors then these specs will leave me totally underwhelmed, not to say pissed-off.

If they are dual-core, I'll want to see benchmark tests to work out what the benefits are.

Welcome boost in RAM, hard disk size, etc, but after all this time we want a big boost in performance, not trifles.

[aswitcher]

The most important updates here to my mind are the VRAM updates on the iMacs...and decent ram minimums. I expect this to keep sales high, especially if they can drop the 20" down a few bucks as well.

I still think they should produce a Deluxe/Royale version of the 20" with a Gig of ram, WiFi, BT Keyboard and Mouse so people can buy it straight from the store without CTOs or fiddling with them. Surely of the 20"s this would be a popular config...

[RowdyBacon]

If this information is indeed accurate, I'd say there's a very good chance that the processors are the 970MP variants. Considering that Apple has been employing 2Ghz and 2.3Ghz G5 processors for some time now (XServe and PowerMac), it seems rather unlikely they'd simply reshuffle the current PowerMac line with revised/speed-bumped "old generation" G5s. It would be a less-than-impressive model refresh to say the least.

However, if these new machines are sporting the dual-core G5s, then the apparent minor speed bump would be anything but minor! ;)

[scb]

very pleased with the imac specs, exactly what i was looking for with better gpu, more standard memory and BT2, not to mention the superdrive! :D

[Stella]

Intel are playing the Mhz game... the P4 running @ 4 Ghz isn't necessarily faster than processors running at lower clock rates.

Anyway, its about time Apple provided good graphic cards - the 9600 is a nice card.. the memory too..

[toontra]

Hey all,

I'm quite happy with my 3month old Dual 2.0GHz powermac - however i would love to get hold of one of those new DVD+RW DL drives (featured in the possible PM update) on its own. Where would i be able to find the actual model number of those drives and get a gold of a Mac compatible one?

How easy would it be to get hold of and install? Would Tiger (pre-ordered) just 'work' with it?

Thanks,

FireArse

Pioneer 108 or 109 is what I've been installing on my own & others' machines. £40 (I guess >$70). Dead easy to fit.

[Blue Velvet]

Still only 512mb RAM on the PMs?

Misers. Cheapskates. Penny-pinching bastards...

[mithras]

Pretty disappointing that they didn't make 3GHz on the PM. Doesn't the Intel Pentium 4 Extreme 840 go at 4GHz?


That's not really an appropriate comparison. The P4 is much slower clock-for-clock than the G5. A better comparison is with the AMD Athlon, or the Opteron.
* current top-of-the-line Athlon and Opteron is 2.6Ghz.
* dual-core Opterons will be released this quarter, at 1.8, 2.0, and 2.2Ghz.

So while the incremental advance of the G5 is disappointing, it's in the neighborhood.

[SAukland]

Slap these puppies with Tiger, and Apple's sales will be very healthy.

There's so much going on this month.

Nice work Apple. :D

[ewinemiller]

If the Powermacs don't have the dual-core processors then these specs will leave me totally underwhelmed, not to say pissed-off.

If they are dual-core, I'll want to see benchmark tests to work out what the benefits are.

Welcome boost in RAM, hard disk size, etc, but after all this time we want a big boost in performance, not trifles.

I have to agree...unless there is a large price drop instead. I'm in the market for a new Mac. If there is a dual-core dual 2.7 it will be irresistable even at a high price point. If the dual 2.0 comes in at $1600, it will also be irresistable just because of the value.

[AdamZ]

Does anybody else starting to feel that Think Secret is really taking the fun out of this. I mean the last 3-4 years have been great for macrumors and we all have had some fun here. But I am starting to feel the mystery beginning to slip. First we'll all comment on these NEW specs, then sit around later and talk about the REAL specs, and then how they compared, so on and so on. It used to be tantalizing to follow rumor sites, but now with Think Secret getting the inside track all the time, it's all getting rather dull.

[eji]

I'm very pleased with these updates. I've been harping on relentlessly about the iMac GPUs and other hardware shortcomings, and all these upgrades across the board (well, mostly) had me dancing a jig.

Now I have to ask myself: Provided these "highly reliable" rumors are correct, do I buy the iMac now that it's got what I asked for in the first place? Or do I wait a few months for the (cooler-running?) dual cores to appear in them?

[dubbz]

Pretty disappointing that they didn't make 3GHz on the PM. Doesn't the Intel Pentium 4 Extreme 840 go at 4GHz?

I was super sure I wanted to upgrade my 2003 Dual 2.0 but will have to wait and see now.

The fastest Intel is at 3.8GHz. The 840 is only running at 3.2GHz as far as I know.
When it comes to GHz, I think the Athlon64 is a more appropriate CPU to compare the G5 with. The fastest is currently at 2.6GHz (the FX-55) and the FX-57, running at 2.8GHz, is scheduled for Q2.

[deanbo]

Was an extra 200mhz all IBM could manage after all this time?

[MacSA]

The specs for the 970MP are that it has 1MB of L2 cache:

Each core will have its own 1MB L2 cache, sources said; the 970FX has only 512KB. L3 cache will not be supported.

The specs listed for the new PowerMacs at thinksecret are for 512k L2 cache...... :o So it looks like they are still using the old single core chips rather than dual core.

[Freg3000]

The fact is unless these G5s are based on the 970 MP this will be an even more underwhelming update than last year. It would only be a messly 200 MHz, addition of a Dual Layer optical drive (which we should have had a few months ago) and maybe a small boost to the standard disk space. Oh, and Apple finally decided that the NVIDIA 5200 didn't even deserve to be next to a Power Mac.

They need to be dual core.

[SAukland]

Looks like nothing materialized regarding iBook upgrades, as Appleinsider had reported two weeks ago.

Oh well. Maybe later.

[Sharky II]

i would be really surprised, and happy, if they shipped 9600's with 128mb with the imacs...

[liketom]

2.7 is fine it will do the job very well - i know one member here who will be happy with the iMac updates (lincoln )

now where are them iBook's !!!!! some of us love them little white things

overall = Happy

[aswitcher]

The specs for the 970MP are that it has 1MB of L2 cache:

Each core will have its own 1MB L2 cache, sources said; the 970FX has only 512KB. L3 cache will not be supported.

The specs listed for the new PowerMacs at thinksecret are for 512k L2 cache...... :o


Mmm. Not good. Maybe TS's source just threw that cache info in on an assumption...or maybe not...

200MHz in what...6 months?

[broken_keyboard]

Intel are playing the Mhz game... the P4 running @ 4 Ghz isn't necessarily faster than processors running at lower clock rates.

Well, we have to live with these new PMs for a year at least. That means for a whole year we are going to be a lot slower than Intel. The situation will develop again where pros migrate away because they just can't resist the raw power differential.

Power Macs aside, I think the new iMac is going to be great. They have really been listening about memory and video cards.

[MacSA]

The specs for the 970MP are that it has 1MB of L2 cache:

Each core will have its own 1MB L2 cache, sources said; the 970FX has only 512KB. L3 cache will not be supported.

The specs listed for the new PowerMacs at thinksecret are for 512k L2 cache...... :o So it looks like they are still using the old single core chips rather than dual core.

Also........it says "512K L2 cache per processor".........per PROCESSOR, not core. ;)

[adamfilip]

Those better be dual core
otheriwise its a crappy update
10 months later and 200 mhz is all they can do?! :rolleyes:

[MattG]

I don't want to get anyone in trouble, so I'm not going to say from who or where I got this information...but regarding an order I was going to place, I was told to wait because it was "very likely the iMacs and FCP would be updated at NAB."

[Platform]

I don't think that this upgrade is so bad a least if this is just a little bumb = more RAM better GPU ++ but that the PM's will be updated at WWDC again..but while they are at it why not now :confused: :p :D

[aswitcher]

Also........it says "512K L2 cache per processor".........per PROCESSOR, not core. ;)


Well spotted...heres hoping.

[Bear]

The FSB and L2 specs if correct, indicate the chip is probably not the 970MP.

The 970MP has (as mentioned) 1MB of L2 Cache per core. Also the FS (at last info on the 970MP) ran at 1/3rd of the system clock speed. Although this could have changed between the last info on the 970MP and now.

Also, in theory the 970MP was supposed to make an appearance at 3GHz.

In either case, if the new PowerMacs are not dual core, I will have to re-evaluate whether or not I will be buying a PowerMac now or waiting for the dual core ones to appear.

Maybe some of the specs were assumed? Maybe they're correct. But maybe, just maybe they're totally wrong. I guess well know sometime this month as to what the real soecs are.

[dubbz]

Power Macs aside, I think the new iMac is going to be great. They have really been listening about memory and video cards.

That's so true! If they truly get the Radeon 9600 instead of that accursed GFFX5200 then iMac is looking like a much better buy. A big reason for me leaning toward the PM instead of the iMac is the horrible GPU in the iMac.

If this come true, my next buy might be a iMac instead of a new PC.... although I think I'll wait a while to see if there's any issues. The noise thing with the current rev. have made me a litte wary.

[miloblithe]

I have to say that I wasn't really expecting the dual core chips yet. Hopefully the next update cycle will be a short one, not another 10 months or even six. The graphics updates would be very nice, and necessary if Tiger is going to make any sense. The iMac is looking like a great deal again, although I don't like the idea of an all-in-one with an expensive LCD. And that Dual 2.0 could be a great deal if it comes in well under $2000.

[Flickta]

200 mhz increase... Wow... Even Moto did better at times.

[Roller]

Sounds like a small, incremental upgrade to me. And I didn't see anything about PCI Express, which I was hoping for in the next PM upgrade. If this is what they're doing now, it's unlikely we'll see anything more at WWDC. So the next chance for a major PM announcement would be the Paris expo.

(On the other hand, if these are dual core, these upgrades would be tempting.)

[Savage Henry]

Slap these puppies with Tiger, and Apple's sales will be very healthy. New 20" iMac with Tiger, amn that's got to be worth breaking into the credit card for. Still curious on the next iBooks ... need to get me a new one.

And although it doesn't directly impact me, I also think the PM upgrades, if they are as rumoured, are a little disappointing.

But ya can't get everything I spose.

[jiggie2g]

ROTFLMAO , Once again you can depend on the incompetence of apple and all it's partners to screw things up again. So after nearly a year , almost 2 if you count the original debut of the G5. Apple once again drops the ball .

Not only did they not reach 3ghz after nearly a year, but are still the last one using AGP , as everyone else had already moved on to greener PCIe pastures. I knew i could rely on apple to blow it again , they should just quit the computer business sell OSX to M$ , make iPods and consumer electronics. Pretty much at this rate they will never catch up. I now can honestly say that I have no regrets jumping ship to AMD.

AMD and Intel will have Dual Core CPU's on store shelves by summer. I'm sure we can expect A Singel Core Athlon FX-59 3.0ghz 1MB L2 by November since the FX-55 2.8ghz 1MB L2 is expected in May.

Apple is in some seriously deep ***** , once those AMD/Intel Dualcore's hit the streets, If anyone has been paying attention to Anandtech , Cnet , and Tomshardware, you will see what I mean. Those performance numbers can temp even the most loyal Mac Zealot, especially the Multitasking results.

Radeon 9650 256MB.....LOL , I've never even herd of a 9650 , I know about the Radeon 9550 and 9250. This must be some new low end crap ATI is putting out. I don't get why a 9800 Pro (which it ancient now) is not standard on a 3K machine. damn apple atleast a 9600XT not some vanilla non pro 9600 crap. 256MB is nothing more then a slick marketing ploy by Card vendors to jack up the price as no 128bit 4 Pipleline card and take full advantage of anything beyond 128MB because of memory bandwidth limitations.

In order to take full advantage of a 256MB card you need atleast 8 Pipleline and 256bit Memort Interface. A prime example of this is the Geforce 6600GT it has a 128bit interface which is why it only comes in 128MB configurations.

P.S. I'm not gonna completely bash Apple , as I think the iMac upgrades are much better as compared to the PM's , however those specs should have been standard in the 1st gen iMac G5 since u can pretty much get similar stuff in $599 PC's now.

[MacNoobie]

See this is what I predicted would happen with the PM's, My dilemma was buying a PM DP 2.5Ghz at the end of March or waiting till mid April for new PM's to start rolling out. I didn't want to find out that I'd buy the 2.5 and find out a 3 is just around the corner. It's a shame IBM cant hit past ~2.7Ghz on the G5's though I'm sure if they increased the pipeline stages they could get the speed up just a tad but the magic 3Ghz is hard to reach.

I'm slightly relieved that a 2.7 isn't a huge upgrade from my 2.5 so I'll be set knowing that I made the right choice to buy.

I also forgot to add that a 200Mhz jump by all means isn't considered a real upgrade but if you look on the AMD side of things they are having a struggle increasing the speeds to but not nearly as bad as IBM. Also you have to consider that the G5 is a RISC cpu and therefore runs a bit hotter to begin with and works a bit harder so naturally its harder to get the speeds up.

[G.Kirby]

I'm a happy chappy. :) PM dual 2Ghz More RAM, better but not great Graphcs card, Big HD. Nice bonus with the optical drive. This is now a good base level machine.....as long as the price stays around £1,150 mark.

Any how, this is the Mac that I will be getting, I should last me the next 4 years. :D

[iJaz]

200 mhz increase... Wow... Even Moto did better at times.
Yupp, even Moto...
Steve promised us 3 GHz a long long time ago, it's getting pretty embarrassing.
Unless they are dual core! :D

[brap]

Wow. Only a 200MHz increase in the top-end Mac?
And how about that 2-year old dual 2GHz model?

Last year's bumps were acceptable, because 500MHz was 25%. 200MHz is now less than 10%. If these aren't the MP CPUs, then that's really quite disappointing - and sure to get royally blasted by the multiple core Opterons.

[MacSA]

So everything except the Mac mini and the iBook will have GPU's that take full advantage of what Tiger has to offer......this is unfortunate, as the iBook and mini are popular switcher machines.

[ipacmm]

Yupp, even Moto...
Steve promised us 3 GHz a long long time ago, it's getting pretty embarrassing.
Unless they are dual core! :D

That’s true, I have been waiting to buy a new G5 but wanted to wait until they hit 3 GHz but now at 2.7 - I just don’t know if I should get it or not, I guess I will wait and see what they come out with.

[Little Endian]

AMD and Intel will have Dual Core CPU's on store sheveles by summer. I'm sure we can expect An Singel Core Athlon FX-59 3.0ghz 1MB L2 by November since the FX-55 2.8ghz 1MB L2 is expected in May.

Apple is in some seriously deep ***** , once those AMD/Intel Dualcore's hit the streets, If anyone has been paying attention to Anandtech , Cnet , and Tomshardware, you will see what I mean. Those performance numbers can temp even the most loyal Mac Zealot, especially the Multitasking results.



True but so far most consumer PC Mobos available and soon to be available for Dual Core Processors will still only support one Processor for both Intel and AMD. Seeing how most PowerMacs are allready Dual Processor the difference won't be that big comparing Dual Processor Power Macs to Single Processor Dual Core AMD and Intel Machines.

I have seen the Anandtech articles about Dual Core and the performance does not impress me the least. In fact the Multitasking on Windows machines using Dual Proccessors or Dual Core is poor when comparing to OSX. OSX while not perfect at multitasking can still handle better than Windows. Remember OSX was built with SMP in mind and has much more optimizations in the OS to take advantage of multiple threads. Apple's entire PowerMac lineup has been built around Dual processors at times for years now and that's why OSX is better than Windows when we are talking about multitasking. In fact Apple has been building MP machines for the past 10 years since the days of the PowerPC 604.

Anyhow even if the next update is not Dual Core I imagine we should have Dual Cored PowerMacs or Xserve by the end of the year and hopefully we should be up to 3Ghz by then which would put Apple in the same leauge as AMD.

[logical001]

If these PM specs turn out to be true and not MP then Apple will be in real trouble.

In fact at somewhere like NAB you will just push everyone into the AMD and Avid camp as you can have a faster PC at a lower price comapred to an under spec 2.7 Mac with sod all ram and soon to be redundant AGP.

What is the point in having a load of power hungry apps that are effectively running on 12month old hardware. It isn't as though you can say, well here is the ultimate editing laptop either. Overall serious ***** up.

Hate to say it, but without dual core, I will probably be moving to AMD in the summer as per the earlier poster.

[BWhaler]

Does anybody else starting to feel that Think Secret is really taking the fun out of this. I mean the last 3-4 years have been great for macrumors and we all have had some fun here. But I am starting to feel the mystery beginning to slip. First we'll all comment on these NEW specs, then sit around later and talk about the REAL specs, and then how they compared, so on and so on. It used to be tantalizing to follow rumor sites, but now with Think Secret getting the inside track all the time, it's all getting rather dull.

I totally agree.

But don't worry. Apple is going to win the case, hands down. Despite some brilliant PR by the defense, TS doesn't have a chance of winning the case.

[yoji]

Holy Crap people, can we all take a step back and say rumor not fact.

[eric_n_dfw]

I knew i could rely on apple to blow it again , they should just quit the computer business sell OSX to M$ , make iPods and consumer electronics.
...
AMD and Intel will have Dual Core CPU's on store shelves by summer. I'm sure we can expect A Singel Core Athlon FX-59 3.0ghz 1MB L2 by November since the FX-55 2.8ghz 1MB L2 is expected in May.
Unless they do port OS X to AMD or Intel then all of your points are fairly irrelevant to me and the majority of people here.

If OS X ran on those processors, I'd switch immediately. But it doesn't. Oh well.

[HiRez]

What about PCI Express? I'm quite happy with my dual 2.0 G5 with PCI-X at the moment, but I would not buy a new PowerMac at this time without PCI Express. That is clearly going to be very important, and soon.

[BakedBeans]

Holy Crap people, can we all take a step back and say rumor not fact.

:rolleyes:

to be honest, thinksecret is going to get these right - they just will be

2.7 dual core = me getting one
2.7 single core = me thinking about what to get and more than likely getting 2.3

[840quadra]

Reliable source or not.. I am waiting to hear it from apple.. Just like the Tiger release information.

Until, then, and even after I will be happy with my Dual 2.0 G5 :)

[aafuss1]

Looks like nothing materialized regarding iBook upgrades, as Appleinsider had reported two weeks ago.

Oh well. Maybe later.

I agree-perhaps we'll see the iBook upgraded in the next couple of months, maybe featuring a new design (the current design has been around for nearly 4 years).

[jiggie2g]

True but so far most consumer PC Mobos available and soon to be available for Dual Core Processors will still only support one Processor for both Intel and AMD. Seeing how most PowerMacs are allready Dual Processor the difference won't be that big comparing Dual Processor Power Macs to Single Processor Dual Core AMD and Intel Machines.

I have seen the Anandtech articles about Dual Core and the performance does not impress me the least. In fact the Multitasking on Windows machines using Dual Proccessors or Dual Core is poor when comparing to OSX. OSX while not perfect at multitasking but can still handle better than Windows. Remember OSX was built with SMP in mind and has much more optimizations in the OS to take advantage of multiple threads. Apple's entire PowerMac lineup has been built around Dual processors at times for years now and that's why OSX is better than Windows when we are talking about multitasking. In fact Apple has been building MP machines for the past 10 years since the days of the PowerPC 604.

Anyhow even if the next update is not Dual Core I imagine we should have Dual Cored PowerMacs or Xserve by the end of the year and hopefully we should be up to 3Ghz by then which would put Apple in the same leauge as AMD.


Difference won't be that big, what planet did you just land from. Apple has been getting Killed by AMD and Intel for what seems like forever now , and the fact that theses machines are single coire doesn't help the matter either.

I don't know what benchmarks you were looking at , but with the expection of games , just about every other program saw an increase from 25%-50% DVD Shrink times were almost cut in half and once code becomes optimized over the next 12-18 months that gap will only get bigger...much bigger.

[chubad]

I agree. If these are dual core it will be awsome! If not it will be really lame for an upgrade. Not to mention STILL not hitting 3ghz.

[aswitcher]

I agree-perhaps we'll see the iBook upgraded in the next couple of months, maybe featuring a new design (the current design has been around for nearly 4 years).

Yeah, I am hoping they go colours in the iPod mini look.

[iGary]

Still only 512mb RAM on the PMs?

Misers. Cheapskates. Penny-pinching bastards...

Yes.

Underwhelming speed increases, and they crippled the low-end again.

Giving this one a negative.

250GB HDD in the iMac - WHY?

Blah.

[mad jew]

Yay! :D New iMacs here we come! 128Mb will be able to handle Tiger, right? ;)

[Latino4Me]

I can not help but wonder: Shouldn't MAC be at over 3Ghz by now?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Jobs promised 3 Ghz Macs by this time LAST YEAR! Do we blame IBM only for that broken promise?

[nichos]

I totally agree.

But don't worry. Apple is going to win the case, hands down. Despite some brilliant PR by the defense, TS doesn't have a chance of winning the case.

I think it's one of those "if you don't like it, don't look." Seriosuly, if you're at a rumors site, you should expect to see some rumors, and some of them will be true. Why would you come here if you don't want to see spoilers?

[dubbz]

True but so far most consumer PC Mobos available and soon to be available for Dual Core Processors will still only support one Processor for both Intel and AMD.

True for Intel. You'll need a new motherboard with new chipsets. But not true for AMD. According to them the only thing needed for most (Socket 939/Athlon64 and Socket 940/Opteron) motherboards will be a BIOS upgrade. Seems like they planned ahead.

[zelmo]

Just got the go ahead to order 4 iMacs for work (perfect for our preflight department). Guess I'll be sitting on the purchase order for a couple of weeks.

[nichos]

Does this mean they're going to drop the single proc. PM, and make the 2.0 the low end, and drop it down to $1500? That would be $1000 off!:) Heres hoping!

[vouder17]

Wooohoo, atlast a decent GPu for the iMac. i think i will buy one before school starts in August..

[BwanaZulia]

I agree.

Double agree.

If they only got from 2.5Ghz -> 2.7Ghz in a year, they are just wasting time. These HAVE to be dual core, otherwise Apple will be laughing stock and I will just go by a Dual 2.0 refurb.

BZ

[JzzTrump22]

I think they could have improved the eMac a little more. But i guess they realize theres no point now that they have the mini. I was really hoping the PM's would hit 3.0 ghz. Good job with the iMacs Apple!

[andiwm2003]

imacs are o.k. especially with the new gpu. but i'm waiting for a 23" model.
so i just ordered a new mountain bike and go for the 23" imac that will be there by the end of the summer :)

andi

[Pringolian]

With all these updates imminent, I am intrigued as to what Jobs has for WWDC. I know in the past that updates between machines have been as little as 3 months so it could be possible that the PowerBook would get another upgrade but then a Dual core G4 PowerBook and only a Single on the PowerMac aint gonna happen.

All of this seems unlikely, so I guess some mysterious HD related device/s may appear with G5 iPods sporting video/wireless capabilities that allow all these devices to 'talk' to each other?

All this speculating is giving me headaches, :(

[ManchesterTrix]

Difference won't be that big, what planet did you just land from. Apple has been getting Killed by AMD and Intel for what seems like forever now , and the fact that theses machines are single coire doesn't help the matter either.

I don't know what benchmarks you were looking at , but with the expection of games , just about every other program saw an increase from 25%-50% DVD Shrink times were almost cut in half and once code becomes optimized over the next 12-18 months that gap will only get bigger...much bigger.

As dissatisfied as you sound, switch. Apple is not going to satisfy you, so you should just switch. This is how Apple has operated since Jobs returned, and since their profits and revenues keep increasing, I doubt it's going to change. Unless Apple starts using Intel/AMD hardware, they will never match the raw hardware performance. Accept it or move on, but you shouldn't cause yourself grief over Apple. It's not worth it. Despite what's said XP isn't the worst thing in the world.

[G.Kirby]

If the PMacs were NOT dual core I think we would have heard something. I hope that the new PMacs are dual core, otherwise I think Steve will be wanting some cream on his humble-pie. :D

Come on Apple, don't let us down.......Please!

[stolfi1]

If they got them up to 2.7ghz that means they are really 3 ghz machines. Apple always down clocks there machines. I bet this is a just to tide the masses over till back to school gets here. We will see 3 ghz then its a marketing game.

[ManchesterTrix]

Double agree.

If they only got from 2.5Ghz -> 2.7Ghz in a year, they are just wasting time. These HAVE to be dual core, otherwise Apple will be laughing stock and I will just go by a Dual 2.0 refurb.

BZ

I would place odds on them being single core, I'd also place odds that outside of little internet communities, Apple won't be a laughing stock and their revenues and profits continue to increase.

[ManchesterTrix]

If they got them up to 2.7ghz that means they are really 3 ghz machines. Apple always down clocks there machines. I bet this is a just to tide the masses over till back to school gets here. We will see 3 ghz then its a marketing game.

They sure as hell didn't clock down the 2.5s

[dollystereo]

Again an little update, all this time for this?
Its just like the PB update, a little 10% speed increase is all that they can do in almost a year of waiting.
And DL burners, thats a cheap 70 USD upgrade!!! (109, 108)
I just hope they are Dual Core, i think they are not anyway!

baaa, just sad, les hope am wrong!

[sandau]

my question is...are those g5's still going to sound like a hairdryer running under or on your desk? *what's that you say*? I CAN"T HEAR YOU SPEAK UP!!!

[G.Kirby]

Despite what's said XP isn't the worst thing in the world.

Only next to Paris Hilton's acting career and the Sinclair C5 :D

[psycho bob]

I wonder if it is possible that we may see a new pro line of machines. While Dual core is the way forward but as it stands the speed improvement won't be that noticable, you only need see the benchmarks for the new dual core P4's. Software needs to be optimised and OS X's SMP support needs to be drastically improved.
We also don't know what kind of pricing these dual cores will come in at and also the quantity. Xserves would benefit form many cores but why not introduce a no holes barred top of the line desktop. Stuff price simply pack it full of as much high end technology as possible, if nothing else they will eventually be able to filter it down to lower cost models. They have enough for the R&D and the apple brand continues to sell despite the higher price and what many believe to be inferior specs.
Who knows, certainly not I. But I for one couldn't give a stuff whether these are dual core or not. For now the important thing is GHz, the only reason the industry is going dual core is because single chips cannot produce the ooommph while meeting reasonable power and heat requirements. If they top out at 2.7GHz that will be disappointing especially if they aren't ready to ship straight away.
I honestly cannot believe IBM has taken this long to develop and ship a 200MHz upgrade, I wonder how much of it is to do with apple and the need to announce products at specific times rather than simply updating as and when they can. Come on apple, just put a Cell in my Powermac and stop farting around with the same old mundane chips and technologies... think different!

[thatwendigo]

The 970MP has (as mentioned) 1MB of L2 Cache per core. Also the FS (at last info on the 970MP) ran at 1/3rd of the system clock speed. Although this could have changed between the last info on the 970MP and now.

Also, in theory the 970MP was supposed to make an appearance at 3GHz.

I'd heard that the 970MPs would have an increased L2 cache, as that seems to be a step everyone is taking to work around the flagging rate of rise in core clock, but I don't at all remember hearing that the bus would be reduced. Why would that in any way be beneficial or even sensible, with both chips needing more bandwidth? That's especially nonsensical if, as you say, the MP chips would show up at an even higher core (say, at 3 gigahertz) because they'd need more data to keep them fed.

I find it highly unlikely that the core frequency and the number of cores will rise at the same time, especially considering that every other multicore chip coming to market is doing so at a lower than single-core stepping. Intel is doing it, AMD is doing it, and I would be deeply surprised to find out IBM managed it.

As for the rest of it... Someone will always find something to complain about when Apple revises their machines. If they offer 512MB of RAM and a 9600, there will be people whining that it's not a gigabyte and an 6600GT. It's just the way of things.

[psycho bob]

my question is...are those g5's still going to sound like a hairdryer running under or on your desk? *what's that you say*? I CAN"T HEAR YOU SPEAK UP!!!

My G5 (dual 2.5) runs at 36 decibels far quieter than the first generation. Not all G5's are loud people need to realise that.

[vouder17]

I can not help but wonder: Shouldn't MAC be at over 3Ghz by now?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Jobs promised 3 Ghz Macs by this time LAST YEAR! Do we blame IBM only for that broken promise?

My guess the reason behind this, is that it isnt just a 200mhz jump but also MP. So yeah i think that a 2.7GHZ MP will out perform a single core 3GHZ.

DjVoTeZ

[adamfilip]

im betting these 2.7's are now back to air cooling and liquid cooling is gone completely

[clykins90]

The low-end, Combo Drive eMac will feature 256MB of DDR SDRAM and an 80MB hard drive

lol, 80MB?? :D ;)

[csubear]

Software needs to be optimised and OS X's SMP support needs to be drastically improved.

If you took a look at tigers new features you would see that tiger now has fine grain kenrel locking for smp.....

[ManchesterTrix]

lol, 80MB?? :D ;)

I sure hope it's OS 7.5.5 bootable

[Dont Hurt Me]

If these are correct specs then it really shows they hit the wall with G5 & G4. not impressive at all. A year is to long of wait if this is Apples best. They should just start bumping the models up during production runs.

[ifjake]

these are single core processors, the newer GX kind that run a little cooler instead of the older FX kind that needed that liquid cooling system for the 2.5 gig ones, but still they're not going to be multicore. the hope for me that they will at least do some other internal updates such as PCI-Express since this is going to really just be little more than a speed bump. of course i say all this not having any kind of money to actually purchase something. once i do i'll be pretty happy no matter what they offer.

[Platform]

I'm a happy chappy. :) PM dual 2Ghz More RAM, better but not great Graphcs card, Big HD. Nice bonus with the optical drive. This is now a good base level machine.....as long as the price stays around £1,150 mark.

Any how, this is the Mac that I will be getting, I should last me the next 4 years. :D

Yes if they come out with one like that and keep the price down then it is OK ;)

[Beck446]

I have never voted negative on a rumor until now.

[The Man]

Mmm, hopefully the PowerMac specs will be better than this. On the iMac and eMac side, things are looking better. Hopefully, Apple will put an ATI Radeon 9600 XT in every Mac as standard to make every Mac sold as of April 29 fully compliant with Tiger's Core Image. Come one Apple, give people a Mac mini with a 64 MB Radeon 9600.

[Mord]

the GX and MP have 1MB L2 cache so the confirmed specs have an error, i know for a fact that there is more coming than those specs, dual dual core 2.7GHz would be good, especially as intel can only put out a 3.2GHz dual core p4.

[Wonder Boy]

i ain't budging until rev b of the top end 3ghz machine. i'm not holding my breath...

[clykins90]

I'm satisfied, They updated the iMac with exactly what I want, an updated graphics card, more ram, and cheaper (hopefully).

To all you people that are complaining about not having dual core. CHILL OUT!!!! It's just a rumor, it might be completely correct, it might not, but in the past, not every rumor has been correct. Alot of people thought tiger was going to be announced on April 1st. Alot of people thought iBooks were going to be updated when tiger was announced. It didn't happen!! As trustworthy as ThinkSecret is, there is always a chance that their source is wrong.

[crawdad62]

Those specs. seem just underwhelming enough to be right on.

[ManchesterTrix]

Come one Apple, give people a Mac mini with a 64 MB Radeon 9600.

I'm honestly not sure that you could get a mini to run with a 9600, a mobility 9600 but that raises the price significantly higher.

[neilh]

If it is single core, the only way this upgrade can be redeemed is through pricing. Apple's recent successes have been due to becoming more affordable. I would like to see the entry level G5 be low $1000s.

[iJaz]

im betting these 2.7's are now back to air cooling and liquid cooling is gone completely
Then the 2.5's with liquid cooling will be collector items!

[numediaman]

Those specs. seem just underwhelming enough to be right on.

I agree. I joined this board in December of '03 in order to see if there would be rev. b G5s at MacWorld '04. If these specs are correct the WinTel world will be laughing their heads off.

[iGary]

These are going to be embarrassing if they aren't dual-core.

[adamfilip]

Then the 2.5's with liquid cooling will be collector items!

well in three years not only will they be collectors items they will be oozing nuclear stations too :) its a leaky problem waiting to happen. I wouldnt buy one new or used..

[JasonL]

Wow, so now the emac will have much better video than the imac!? That sucks! I mean, a 20" iMac at 1680x1050 with worse video hardware than a 17" CRT emac?! what is apple thinking...

As first reported over a month ago, the updated iMac G5, code-named Q45 C/D, will reach 2GHz, while video memory is doubled to 128MB and the card itself upgraded to ATI's Radeon 9600.

You must have missed this.

[iGary]

I'm guessing the significant video card improvements are part of the "Year of HD," and the fact that Apple's been behind the curve on this one for quite some time.

Nice HD improvements as well, and nice to see the dual 2.0 still will have the 1GHz FSB (2).

If that comes in under 2G's, I'm buying.

[JasonL]

I'm guessing the significant video card improvements are part of the "Year of HD," and the fact that Apple's been behind the curve on this one for quite some time.

Nice HD improvements as well, and nice to see the dual 2.0 still will have the 1GHz FSB (2).

If that comes in under 2G's, I'm buying.

I agree. My needs are only consistent with a lower-end PM, so I wouldn't mind if these were not dual core machines. I was looking for price cuts and better base RAM, and GPU. However, if my livelihood would benefit from having an ultra high end Mac, I'd be disappointed.

[NevadaJack]

I'm guessing the significant video card improvements are part of the "Year of HD," and the fact that Apple's been behind the curve on this one for quite some time.

Nice HD improvements as well, and nice to see the dual 2.0 still will have the 1GHz FSB (2).

If that comes in under 2G's, I'm buying.

Just the machine I was waiting for...the iMac 20"! One Click ready to go when Apple opens the store :D

OT Gary...a past St Margarets Road resident in the mid '80s. Love Annapolis and Chesapeake Bay!

[iGary]

Just the machine I was waiting for...the iMac 20"! One Click ready to go when Apple opens the store :D

OT Gary...a past St Margarets Road resident in the mid '80s. Love Annapolis and Chesapeake Bay!

I lived at 1745 St. Maragarets in the late 80's..:)

I'm now downtown. :D

It is a great area, but unless my business takes off, I'm gonna get priced out of here. :rolleyes:

[psycho bob]

If you took a look at tigers new features you would see that tiger now has fine grain kenrel locking for smp.....

I found the reference, they don't give much information on it do they. I suspect there will be a developer doc somewhere on it. I've only gone of what programmers with BETA versions said. This will be great for all multiprocessor macs if it is implemented well.

[Lacero]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret cites (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504macs.html) "highly reliable" source to provide us with detailed specs about upcoming hardware releases.

The new PowerMacs are said to top out at 2.7GHz in the following configurations:

Dual 2.0GHz, Dual 2.3GHz and Dual 2.7GHz with 512MB RAM featuring SuperDrives with dual-layer DVD+R support. No reliable info if the new processors will offer the multi-core 970MP or not.

The iMac G5 will reach 2GHz with two 17" and one 20" configuration, while the eMac will come with 1.25 and 1.42 GHz G4 processors as well an upgraded video card (64MB ATI Radeon 9600) to take advantage of Tiger's Core Image.Let the bitchfest begin! Oh wait, I'm too late. :rolleyes:

[G.Kirby]

I agree. My needs are only consistent with a lower-end PM, so I wouldn't mind if these were not dual core machines. I was looking for price cuts and better base RAM, and GPU. However, if my livelihood would benefit from having an ultra high end Mac, I'd be disappointed.

Ditto. Not currently having a Mac at home the new bottom end PMac is just what I am after. :)

However, I can see why people are not happy with the top end specs. At the end of the day you wouldn't buy a Ferrari knowing that it had a VW engine.

If they are not dual core then I can see Apple loosing ground to PC's :mad:

[cr2sh]

If these are in fact dual core, it'll be huge.

If they're single core... it'll be pathetic.

Could ThinkSecret be holding back info from us?

[Cooknn]

If these are in fact dual core, it'll be huge.

If they're single core... it'll be pathetic.

Could ThinkSecret be holding back info from us?Or could Apple be holding back info from Think Secret ;)

[BwanaZulia]

Single core = BZ buys refurbed 2.0 G5, ATI X800, 2 x 24" Dell LCD, 4 GB RAM, 2 x 250 GB SATA Drives = $5,000

Dual Core = BZ buys 2.5Gz NEW G5, 2 x 24" Dell LCD, 2 GB Ram, 1 250 GB Sata Drive = $5,000

BZ

[kherdin]

Apple will probably do like it always does - put the Latest and Greatest New Technology in the top end model only.

So basically, only the 2.7 will be both Dual Core and Dual Processor, while all the other ones will just be Single Core, Dual Processor.

That way, the top end model will still be a significant increase over the previous top end model, while the bottom models will still receive decent updates (more hd space, better optical drives, better vid cards, small cpu boost - probably a small price reduction too).

Mark my words, that is how it's going to be. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if new models were re-engineered and had room for an extra drive or two.

My only question is are they still going to cripple the bottom models w/ regular PCI? (instead of PCI-X)

[NevadaJack]

I lived at 1745 St. Maragarets in the late 80's..:)

I'm now downtown. :D

It is a great area, but unless my business takes off, I'm gonna get priced out of here. :rolleyes:

I built that house at 1745 St Margarets Road in 1983 and sold it in 1986 or 87. Are you kidding me...a small world, holy geez!

:D

[G.Kirby]

Or could Apple be holding back info from Think Secret ;)

No news is good news in my book. Even if it is a bit irritating.

Because of all the information leaks Apple has had in the last few months perhaps This is a bit of misdirection. While everyone is chopsin' about RAM this, GPU that, Apple can then come forward with a nice big surprise......i hope!

[vtprinz]

Weren't the dual core procs supposed to be able to handle 16GB of RAM? If the top end PM still maxes out at 8GB does that mean it can't be a dual core machine?

Also, what's the deal with apple always crippling the low end PM? 4GB max RAM instead of 8GB, and I'm sure if we do happen to see PCIe, it will be in everything except the low end, which will probably remain the same old PCI, probably not even PCI-X...makes me kind of angry

[PeterQVenkman]

All you naysayers, chill. I have been dying for a new tower and wanted to wait for the updates. I will get the middle of the road 2.3 Ghz and be very happy. After my 800mhz iMac G4, each processor will be three times as fast as my current computer.

All you complainers are following this almost exactly:

http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

If you can't laugh at that, you aren't a big enough Mac fan!


I don't care what apple ships, dual layer burners would be nice (yesssss!), as would dual core, but I'll take any speed boost I can for Cinema 4d.

All you guys who say apple will lose market share should look at how well G5's perform for Pro tasks like DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut, and Cinema 4d. The Mac implementation of Open GL holds back the real time performance of C4d but the full rendering speed (raytracing and radiosity) is the best for the buck. I came very, VERY close to switching to a PC lately. But for those of us who do pro work, the Mac is a (begin Donnie Brasco accent) beautiful thing.

nice work Apple. My only problem is that THEY AREN'T HERE YET.

[deputy_doofy]

Apple will probably do like it always does - put the Latest and Greatest New Technology in the top end model only.

So basically, only the 2.7 will be both Dual Core and Dual Processor, while all the other ones will just be Single Core, Dual Processor.

That way, the top end model will still be a significant increase over the previous top end model, while the bottom models will still receive decent updates (more hd space, better optical drives, better vid cards, small cpu boost - probably a small price reduction too).

Mark my words, that is how it's going to be. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if new models were re-engineered and had room for an extra drive or two.

My only question is are they still going to cripple the bottom models w/ regular PCI? (instead of PCI-X)

I'll agree, to a point, that Apple is good at separating their top-top-of-the-line PM from the other PMs.
However, they are also known to sometimes just do a speedbump on all 3 of the PM's (and sometimes do that 2-3 times consecutively) before something major.
Here's hoping for something cool, because that 2.7 is mine, regardless of single or dual-core.

[dicklacara]

No news is good news in my book. Even if it is a bit irritating.

Because of all the information leaks Apple has had in the last few months perhaps This is a bit of misdirection. While everyone is chopsin' about RAM this, GPU that, Apple can then come forward with a nice big surprise......i hope!

Yeah, there is room for some surprises, maybe:

Use of CELL chips for graphics

Use of specialized chips to offload h264 encoding/decoding

If these new Upgrades are announced at NAB, then either/both of the above would be very significant to that audience.

[Trowaman]

While the powermac is a shame, the Rev B iMac is everything I have wanted. 2 ghz, BLUETOOTH, and better graphics card. My 17" G4 iMac is still humming along fine (minus the lack of core image in a few weeks) but when these new imacs reach rev C I just might be tempted to buy one considering the above specs have happened.

Personal Theory: when the model of computer you bought is now available at more than twice the speed of yours, think about upgrading, so for me that is the middle iMac greater than 2 ghz in speed.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to Sunday's pro video announcements of products that will not work on my machine and if they did would go very slowly. Oh well, I couldn't get any film classes for next semester anyways.

[rsamo]

I don't know why this is receiving so many negative respones, just because of the PowerMacs? Come on no one buys the dang things anyway because they are way overpriced.

Key here is Apple's main prosumer computer the iMac is now a deal as long as they dont increase prices. It seems most every complaint you get from users is Video Card and RAM. Well no complaining now, plus they threw in Bluetooth. I don't remember seeing faster SuperDrives being inclued though?

Basically now I can buy the computer I wanted with only two slight modifications - wifi and more 512 additional RAM. Ahh I am excited!!!

[duffman9000]

ROTFLMAO , Once again you can depend on the incompetence of apple and all it's partners to screw things up again. So after nearly a year , almost 2 if you count the original debut of the G5. Apple once again drops the ball .

Not only did they not reach 3ghz after nearly a year, but are still the last one using AGP , as everyone else had already moved on to greener PCIe pastures. I knew i could rely on apple to blow it again , they should just quit the computer business sell OSX to M$ , make iPods and consumer electronics. Pretty much at this rate they will never catch up. I now can honestly say that I have no regrets jumping ship to AMD.

AMD and Intel will have Dual Core CPU's on store shelves by summer. I'm sure we can expect A Singel Core Athlon FX-59 3.0ghz 1MB L2 by November since the FX-55 2.8ghz 1MB L2 is expected in May.

Apple is in some seriously deep ***** , once those AMD/Intel Dualcore's hit the streets, If anyone has been paying attention to Anandtech , Cnet , and Tomshardware, you will see what I mean. Those performance numbers can temp even the most loyal Mac Zealot, especially the Multitasking results.

Radeon 9650 256MB.....LOL , I've never even herd of a 9650 , I know about the Radeon 9550 and 9250. This must be some new low end crap ATI is putting out. I don't get why a 9800 Pro (which it ancient now) is not standard on a 3K machine. damn apple atleast a 9600XT not some vanilla non pro 9600 crap. 256MB is nothing more then a slick marketing ploy by Card vendors to jack up the price as no 128bit 4 Pipleline card and take full advantage of anything beyond 128MB because of memory bandwidth limitations.

In order to take full advantage of a 256MB card you need atleast 8 Pipleline and 256bit Memort Interface. A prime example of this is the Geforce 6600GT it has a 128bit interface which is why it only comes in 128MB configurations.

P.S. I'm not gonna completely bash Apple , as I think the iMac upgrades are much better as compared to the PM's , however those specs should have been standard in the 1st gen iMac G5 since u can pretty much get similar stuff in $599 PC's now.

True on all counts. Can't wait for a dual core A64 without the need for a mobo upgrade (hehe intel users).
The low end is really a confusing sector with utter crap everywhere. Those last gen cards are a really mixed bag. If its a ATI card and it aint a "PRO" then its a POS. Don't care how much ram they stick on it.
I don't understand that if the vid card is so important to OS X why does Apple insist on packaging utter crap on the base pro machines. At least use PRO's for chrissakes.

[crawdad62]

While the powermac is a shame, the Rev B iMac is everything I have wanted. 2 ghz, BLUETOOTH, and better graphics card.

I have to agree with this. I've been waiting months now for a iMac revision. While the CPU speedbump isn't dramatic the rest of the package is pretty decent. I would have ordered the 250 GB HD upgrade and gotten more RAM. Now I can get the HD size included and add even more RAM to the total.

I'm wondering whether or not BT 2 is INCLUDED or an option. That's the question.

Regardless I'm ready...... bring it on Apple!

[brent1a]

I normally don't post on such items but all this rumoring and speculation is so fun to read....I mean it took me 18 months to research and decide to convert from pc>mac (and save up enough $ to =buy a pm) and now people are going to get all their hopes up and order the next latest and greatest. Everyone seems to be forgetting that most new owners of pm's with the 6800 card JUST got theres a couple months ago when they ordered them 4 or 5 months in advance, or longer. I never understood playing this waiting game that I always read about people doing on the forums. It took me 5 weeks to get my pm 2.5 (regualr order, & I got mine before a lot of people who ordered there's months ahead of me) and I plan on using it for the next 5+ years. Glad I'm not going to order a computer at the end of this month and play the waiting game with Apple & IBM for the next 6 months on when IBM can finally pump out my own quality proc. because there will be a million more threads with people bitching about there purported ship dates and thats all the news will be about as well. eh

[Dont Hurt Me]

With GPU's becoming so important i think Apple needs to really work on this. I mean look a Fx5200 and a 9600 performance wise isnt much different. They are old and lower performing. I was expecting a 6200 in the next imac but we have to remember that the iMac has been riddled with video problems related to the fx5200. Thats a lot of midplanes swapped out by Apple for what is $15 part. Perhaps Apple had enough of the video problems and decided to go with 9600 just to get away from nvidia. Its still just a little bitty bump not much more. 128mb is better then 64. Still good news but a years wait for this? Im glad im not one of the ones who has been waiting for the next iMac. Yearly production runs are just to long in todays fast moving tech world.

[swissmann]

Pretty disappointing that they didn't make 3GHz on the PM. Doesn't the Intel Pentium 4 Extreme 840 go at 4GHz?

I was super sure I wanted to upgrade my 2003 Dual 2.0 but will have to wait and see now.

I'm in the same boat with upgrading my Dual 2 G5. It's been a long time since that promise of 3 GHz in a year was made. Of course I am sure they are trying to forget about that. If these are the Dual Core processors that makes all the difference in the world - forget about the 3 GHz thing. If they came in at Dual 2.7 Dual Core with a Blu-Ray drive I wouldn't be thinking about upgrading anymore, I'd be pulling out my wallet.

Am I missing something or is the iMac keeping the current video card? I think that a bump to 2 GHz isn't very much without a better video card. Nice improvements on the eMac line and if they could drop the price that would be great too.

[gate]

If it's true I'm very disappointed. After all that time, 3ghz is the bare minimum. We also need more RAM than 512 MB, faster RAM than the PC3200 and the possibility to have more than 8 Gigs. At least the DVD burner is dual-layer. Let's just hope that there will be 2 double core processors in the high-end model.

I had plan to buy the high-end model but I'm not sure anymore, I think I'm gonna wait even more. :(

I just checked on the ATI website and I didn't find anything about the 9650 video card. Does such a card exist? And now that the 9800 is not the best one from ATI, maybe Apple could afford to put that one in the high-end model. Let's hope that we could upgrade for the 9800 PRO for a very low cost.

And there is no way I'm gonna buy a new computer with a AGP video slot. No way.

[crap freakboy]

One year, just one year I'd like to hear some cat-calling when Jobs releases a minor update yet sells it up.
Why o why do they continually underspec the PM's?
Sometimes it feels like theyre selling top of the line Mercs but using 1940's parts. Still love the OS though. The iMac 20" sounds nice though, but thats probably just because its an improvemnet on the crap GPu they had.

[duffman9000]

As dissatisfied as you sound, switch. Apple is not going to satisfy you, so you should just switch. This is how Apple has operated since Jobs returned, and since their profits and revenues keep increasing, I doubt it's going to change. Unless Apple starts using Intel/AMD hardware, they will never match the raw hardware performance. Accept it or move on, but you shouldn't cause yourself grief over Apple. It's not worth it. Despite what's said XP isn't the worst thing in the world.

Windows 95/98/ME are the worst things in the world. If you think about how many people still use those it is mind boggling.

[itsa]

Good enough... I'll take one!
The truth is I was in hope for more and I still am but I have been holding off for some time now and just want something...anything to happen.

[brent1a]

Windows 95/98/ME are the worst things in the world. If you think about how many people still use those it is mind boggling.XP is right up there as one of the worst things as well....just because 90% of the users of the world use it doesn't make XP 'ok' it makes them uneducated about mac and when your educated about mac that makes XP crap.

[scu]

Well it looks like Wallstreet agrees. These are crapy updates and they will do nothing to increase the Apple sales in the next two quarters. Apple can't maintain the income growth just with iPods and Mac Mini. They really needed a kick ass Power Mac to increase sales. This whimy upgrade will keep many Power Users on the sidelines. I can now safely predict that we will not see the 3 Ghz system until Jan. 2006.

Thank YOu IBM. You suck.

:mad:

[adamfilip]

Check out the attachment
I made that up last september I believe
im not far off :)

[bosrs1]

Not a huge increase in the top end. They must be struggling with those G5's.
I agree. I was hoping they'd FINALLY deliver on the Dual 3. I would have traded up my Dual 1.8 for that. Now I'm not sure it's worth it.

[FFTT]

I'm gonna say that TS may be right about processor speeds,
but have no confidence as of yet in their GPU predictions.

IF... this is mearly a PB styled clearance sale to move the existing chassis configuration, then the REAL DEAL may come in Paris.

[Artful Dodger]

Well since I don't really need a PM the iMac 20" looks like a great deal for me and lets hope the specs are true. I will pick one up by July now :D

[cr2sh]

Check out the attachment
I made that up last september I believe
im not far off :)

Why would a 3.5GHz system run a 1.5GHz fsb?

The new tiger black webpage hasa got me wondering about the casing... a gun metal g5 case would be nice.

[Frobozz]

I have to say that an 8% GHz increase is pretty underwhelming. I was expecting this upgrade to be much more of an architectural improvement than it is. Perhaps there are some improvements which will yield more than 8% performance on the top end? Perhaps the cache is a key factor? I think the buses will have to be HyperTransport 2.0 to maintain 1:2 ratio above 2.5 GHz, so that is (potentially) good news.

The graphics cards-- pretty lame. And no PCI-E? That's a massive mistake IMHO. I completely understand why they don't include an x850 256 as standard fare, but a 9600 is pretty much the bottom of the line for modern graphics cards. I hope their BTO options are affordable *cough*.

I think the important performance factors boil down to the combination of:

512KB cache
Faster Bus (based on HT 2 or not?)
Faster GHz
Dual core?
Dual dual core?

... and last but not least... a frickin' drop in price. I bought my dual 1GHz Quicksilver the day it came out and was top of the line for $2,499. If they no longer need liquid cooling then we may see something like $2,799 IMHO at the top end.

[adamfilip]

Why would a 3.5GHz system run a 1.5GHz fsb?

The new tiger black webpage hasa got me wondering about the casing... a gun metal g5 case would be nice.

for one thing the fSb is not in sync with the processor clock speed.

it doesnt have to be half it can be a third (according to Ibm documents)

they can basicly set it to whatever they want.

[crawdad62]

The new tiger black webpage hasa got me wondering about the casing... a gun metal g5 case would be nice.

That would be sharp looking. I bet if Apple did go that way a lot of electronic manufacturers would be scrambling. It seems like Apple set or at least is on the cutting edge of trends. Everything was black a few years ago now everything is silver. I just bought a new TV and it's silver which replaced a black one. I just got a DirecTV Tivo that's silver that replaced my old DTV box that was.... you guessed it....black.

Argh. It's hard to stay fashionable. :D

[Frobozz]

Well it looks like Wallstreet agrees. These are crapy updates and they will do nothing to increase the Apple sales in the next two quarters. Apple can't maintain the income growth just with iPods and Mac Mini. They really needed a kick ass Power Mac to increase sales. This whimy upgrade will keep many Power Users on the sidelines. I can now safely predict that we will not see the 3 Ghz system until Jan. 2006.

Thank YOu IBM. You suck.

:mad:

As much as you may be upset, the PowerMac hasn't been a focus of Apple's sales strategy for years. Consumers and pro-sumers rule their financials and a poor PowerMac sales figure won't drastically impact their bottom line.

With that said, Apple's current line up is adequate for all but high end HD video work. So they do need to improve that. They need a top of the line beast machine for their professional clients. A lot of us on this forum may be clamoring for it-- but we are BY FAR in the minority.

[JamSoft]

Okay, so here's my question:

Xbox Next (aka Xbox 2, aka Xbox 360 - whatever you want to call it) is going to have 3 G5's in it, all of them running at 3Ghz.

Granted, it won't ship until this fall/winter, but still, WHY CAN'T APPLE MAKE A 3Ghz G5 IN THEIR POWERMACS?


I find it sad that Microsoft will be getting 3Ghz G5's before Apple does.

Rather embarrassing :(

-Nate

[puckhead193]

Those imac updates *if true* look pretty sweet. The dual layer DVD burner is great, it about time apple offered a dual layer. The speed bumbs in the PM line are ok. I was really hopping that dual 3 GHZ would be out by now.

[MacSA]

The new iMacs, if the rumoured specs are correct sound pretty good, it should be very popular.

[Little Endian]

Difference won't be that big, what planet did you just land from. Apple has been getting Killed by AMD and Intel for what seems like forever now , and the fact that theses machines are single coire doesn't help the matter either.

I don't know what benchmarks you were looking at , but with the expection of games , just about every other program saw an increase from 25%-50% DVD Shrink times were almost cut in half and once code becomes optimized over the next 12-18 months that gap will only get bigger...much bigger.

Umm.... maybe you had better get a reality check.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2388&p=12

The Pentium Extreme 840 running with Dual Cores @ 3.2Ghz encodes a DVD in 7.4 Minutes. My Dual 2.5Ghz G5 can encode a DVD in about 8-12 minutes. Still faster than a single Athlon 64FX-55 and just a couple minutes slower than 700Mhz faster Dual Cored 3.2Ghz Pentium Extreme 840. I would guess that a Dual Core or Dual Processor G5 @ 2.7Ghz would come even closer in score to the Extreme Edition 840 and most Certainly match or beat a 2.8Ghz Dual Core Pentum D.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2388&p=9

I can also convert a 12Mb .wav file to MP3 192KBs with itunes 4.7 in under 5 seconds while the Dual Core Pentium Exreme 840 takes 29 seconds? Maybe this is an unfair test though since it's Apple software on an Apple Machine. However My DVD compress was done with DVD2OneX which is not Highly optimized for SMP.

http://barefeats.com/macvpc.html

Here is a link of how the Dual 2.5Ghz G5 compares to the Dual Processor Opteron 252 clocked at 2.6Ghz, Dual Xeon @ 3.4Ghz and an Athlon FX55.
As you can see the Dual Processor G5 matches or beats the PCs in almost every scenario. The Pentium Extreme 840 and Pentium D are not much faster if at all in most scenarios than a Dual Opteron or Xeon system. Also keep in mind that Tiger is supposed to offer a nice speed bump in most areas and these tests were done under Panther 10.3

I do admit though that the Mac performs horribly at Games in comparison to the newest PCs but hopefully that Gap will become smaller with Tiger and future driver updates. In most things besides Games the G5 PowerMacs can compare reasonably well with top of the line PCs.

I also Don't think you quite understand that having two single cored Processors Performance wise is almost the same as a Single Processor with two cores assuming similar clock speeds and Core. So a Power Mac with two seperate chips running at 2.7Ghz should perform on par or beat a Single Pentium chip with two cores running at 2.8Ghz. Remember the G5 is still faster clock for clock than even the newest Pentium Cores. The Pentiums Two cores share an 800Mhz Bus as well while the 2.7Ghz G5 machine is supposed to have two independent busses running at 1.35Ghz. If you were talking about Dual Processor Dual Cored PC's you would have some point of validity with Quad core. However the Intel Extreme and D as well as the upcoming Dual Core Athon only support one Dual Core Chip. Sure the Dual Core AMD Athlon is still socket 939 however it still supports only one Dual Cored Chip until the Dual Cored Opteron 265/275 series is available at a whopping $850-$1300 per Dual Cored Chip. So one can have a quad cored Opteron for about $2000-$3000 just for the CPUs and MOBO as most A64 and FX support only one 939 socket.

At the rate we are going we most certainly will see a Quad Cored 970 MP setup available from Apple hopefully by the end of the year. Apple's CHUD tools allready support controls for a Dual Processor Dual Cored system. I think you underestimate how far the Mac has come within the past couple of years.

[ts1973]

The upgrade is not much to shout home about, but as many people say, will be adequate to get all but the most demanding jobs done.

Anyway, because of the 512kb in stead of 1Mb cache per processor that has been mentioned, I don't believe the machines will be dual core, which is a shame of course.

PS : Can someone explain me why having 512kb cache per processor is better than 512kb per core (or in the dual core world : 1Mb per processor). I believe there were some people mentioning this on one of the previous pages).

[Frobozz]

Was an extra 200mhz all IBM could manage after all this time?

It _could_ be dual core .... which reduces the cost to produce the Powermacs significantly due to heat disspation advantages and lower number of chips required.

The math is compelling. They need 50% LESS chips to sell a dual CORE PM instead of a dual single core. That saves them money, time, heat, and motherboard design.

Could be interesting to see. That's the real question mark to me: are they dual core?

[AppleFoussa]

When will they hit three

Seriously though! Apple isgoing little step by lil step. THat is if the rumors are true. dual 3.0 would be Phat.

[dongmin]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say these specs are for dual cores, at least for the top two models. Either that or TS is completely wrong.

My rationale: Apple has ALWAYS dropped the previous top-of-the-line to the middle. Even with the recent PowerBook speed bump, which got only a 167mhz increase, Apple upped the middle model to 1.5 ghz, the previous top-of-the-line.

If Apple is sticking to single core 970s, the middle should be at least 2.5 ghz. Instead, they're at 2.3 which leads me to believe that these are completely new chips, i.e. dual cores.

[vtprinz]

As much as you may be upset, the PowerMac hasn't been a focus of Apple's sales strategy for years. Consumers and pro-sumers rule their financials and a poor PowerMac sales figure won't drastically impact their bottom line.

With that said, Apple's current line up is adequate for all but high end HD video work. So they do need to improve that. They need a top of the line beast machine for their professional clients. A lot of us on this forum may be clamoring for it-- but we are BY FAR in the minority.

On a consumer standpoint maybe, but overall I disagree. Look at all the research that is being done now on the G5's. Here at tech we put together the 3rd fastest supercomputer in the world just from clustered consumer-level PMs. All of us in the forums don't mean squat to Apple as far as their PM development plan, but universities and big businesses do, and if anyone is going to keep the PM's alive, it's them. I just hope their keeping on Apple's tail about this. Apple stands to lose huge profits if the PC world really brings the power I've been hearing about. Even a single university looking to put together a cluster could be a huge percentage of Apples PM sales, and from what I remember/have heard, Apples largest revenue percentage comes from the PMs (or one of the largest at least)

[DPazdanISU]

wtf is going on with apple stock. Are stock holders idiots. I would assume nobody would want to cash out until apple starts declining in sales....i don't know its ilogical to me! I'm just venting cuz i bought some recently :confused:

[ifjake]

If it's true I'm very disappointed. After all that time, 3ghz is the bare minimum. We also need more RAM than 512 MB, faster RAM than the PC3200 and the possibility to have more than 8 Gigs. At least the DVD burner is dual-layer. Let's just hope that there will be 2 double core processors in the high-end model.


you're not the first to say this, but you people have got to be kidding with the more than 8GB RAM. 16GB? so you have 10,000 dollars to unload on a computer? and 512 isn't shabby at all, for a minimum. you want more you pay for more. i dunno for a lot of people it's been like "we want more more more" all for the sake of just being "more." PowerMacs are niche. the only people who really need it even at it's current configuration are media professionals; graphic design, film, and audio. and even then moving all that stuff from dedicated machines to software is just barely beginning to catch on. everyone else could either more than make due with an iMac, or they need power beyond the capabilities of a personal computer.

[Cooknn]

I find it sad that Microsoft will be getting 3Ghz G5's before Apple does.I think it would be funny if Apple leaked bad info just to spite Think Secret. I can see Steve on stage unveiling a big banner with 3Ghz on it. Anything less is a dissappointment...

June 2003 - "Within 12 months, we will be at 3GHz," Jobs said. "Believe me, this architecture has legs."

[Frobozz]

I don't know why this is receiving so many negative respones, just because of the PowerMacs? Come on no one buys the dang things anyway because they are way overpriced.

Key here is Apple's main prosumer computer the iMac is now a deal as long as they dont increase prices. It seems most every complaint you get from users is Video Card and RAM. Well no complaining now, plus they threw in Bluetooth. I don't remember seeing faster SuperDrives being inclued though?

Basically now I can buy the computer I wanted with only two slight modifications - wifi and more 512 additional RAM. Ahh I am excited!!!

I agree with you about 80%. To me, we're all complaining about a machine that most people interested in a Mac don't need. However, I am an avid gamer and I do 3D modelling and video production. As a gamer I supplement my Mac experience (always buy the Mac version if it's avialable) with a PS2, PC, a Gameboy Advance, and a PSP. I cover my bases. But when it comes to professional level apps, even 3D will run pretty damn good on a iMac.

The thing is, I need the PowerMacs for what I do but those iMacs are darn close. I have a dual monitor setup with a 23" HD LCD and and 18.1 LCD second monitor. No iMac can replace that. I also need a top of the line graphics card... no dice there on an iMac. And, sadly, I really do need every CPU cycle when rendering video or 3D.

But when it comes down to just a speed issue, there's a LOT less reason to need a PowerMac than there was even 2 years ago. Unless you're doing crazy stuff with your Mac (sorry Photoshop doesn't count anymore) an iMac will do.

[Squire]

Hey all,

I'm quite happy with my 3month old Dual 2.0GHz powermac - however i would love to get hold of one of those new DVD+RW DL drives (featured in the possible PM update) on its own. Where would i be able to find the actual model number of those drives and get a gold of a Mac compatible one?

How easy would it be to get hold of and install? Would Tiger (pre-ordered) just 'work' with it?

FireArse,
I just installed one of those bad-ass drives in my iMac G4 (1 GHz, 17") about three weeks ago. It burns everything, including dual layer. (Or rather, it's supposed to. I haven't splurged on DL discs yet.) The model I have is an LG GSA-4163B. After installing Patchburn, it just "worked" with CDs and DVDs. The best thing is, the drive was only about $75 US. Check out the drive compatibility database at www.xlr8yourmac.com.

Squire

[deputy_doofy]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say these specs are for dual cores, at least for the top two models. Either that or TS is completely wrong.

My rationale: Apple has ALWAYS dropped the previous top-of-the-line to the middle. Even with the recent PowerBook speed bump, which got only a 167mhz increase, Apple upped the middle model to 1.5 ghz, the previous top-of-the-line.

If Apple is sticking to single core 970s, the middle should be at least 2.5 ghz. Instead, they're at 2.3 which leads me to believe that these are completely new chips, i.e. dual cores.

This, also, sounds reasonable to me. Supposedly, the 970GX could maintain the same speeds at with less heat, or higher speeds at the current heat dissipation.
I forget the exact figure, but something like 24% speed increase at same heat (if I'm remembering even remotely correctly).
So...
1.8 + 24% = 2.2
2.0 + 24% = 2.48
2.5 + 24% = 3.1

So, I'd think, if they simply used the same old stuff, they'd do 2.2, 2.5, and 3.1.
Just my 2 (Doofy) ¢.

[paulypants]

Good for the iMacs if true. PowerMacs? Ugh. I feel sick.
Hopefully Apple is feeding TS false info somehow...

[Matty-Andy]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say these specs are for dual cores, at least for the top two models. Either that or TS is completely wrong.

My rationale: Apple has ALWAYS dropped the previous top-of-the-line to the middle. Even with the recent PowerBook speed bump, which got only a 167mhz increase, Apple upped the middle model to 1.5 ghz, the previous top-of-the-line.

If Apple is sticking to single core 970s, the middle should be at least 2.5 ghz. Instead, they're at 2.3 which leads me to believe that these are completely new chips, i.e. dual cores.

Perhaps they're still having yeild issues with the 2.5s. That along with trying to keep some space between the mid and top end models would explain the dual 2.3s...

[dicklacara]

wtf is going on with apple stock. Are stock holders idiots. I would assume nobody would want to cash out until apple starts declining in sales....i don't know its ilogical to me! I'm just venting cuz i bought some recently :confused:
The guidance given for Q3 2005 was less than what the analysts wanted to hear. It was up, but conservative.

[Frobozz]

On a consumer standpoint maybe, but overall I disagree. Look at all the research that is being done now on the G5's. Here at tech we put together the 3rd fastest supercomputer in the world just from clustered consumer-level PMs. All of us in the forums don't mean squat to Apple as far as their PM development plan, but universities and big businesses do, and if anyone is going to keep the PM's alive, it's them. I just hope their keeping on Apple's tail about this. Apple stands to lose huge profits if the PC world really brings the power I've been hearing about. Even a single university looking to put together a cluster could be a huge percentage of Apples PM sales, and from what I remember/have heard, Apples largest revenue percentage comes from the PMs (or one of the largest at least)

Well, I think you're in the minority. Most clusers will be xServes, which do not generate the redundant heat and failure points that a stand alone PowerMac will produce. However, it's totally sweet that you guys did that... but I'm curious why you didn't go with xServe cluster nodes?

You make an interesting point, though. More and more the scientific and industrial professions are buying Macs. But consider this: 5 years ao the numbers were freakishly miniscule. Ever since OS X, xServe and the G5 came out, the adoption of the Macintosh as a research platform has skyrocketed. That proves that the platform is viable dispite minor aborrations in performance (plus or minus) to the x86/Windows platform.

[lem0nayde]

Does anyone know what the real world effect of having dual-core chips would be? What kind of speed increase would we see? Would 2 dual core chips be like having a quad-processor machine?

I hang my ignorance out for all to see....

[vtprinz]

but I'm curious why you didn't go with xServe cluster nodes?


Started out with PM's, I think they switched it all over to xserves after about a year. Not sure. If so, I wonder what happened to all those PMs....

Either way it started a trend. Within a year of being rated 3rd a handful of other universities followed suit and started putting together their own G5 clusters.

[nokiauk]

Hey all,

I'm quite happy with my 3month old Dual 2.0GHz powermac - however i would love to get hold of one of those new DVD+RW DL drives (featured in the possible PM update) on its own. Where would i be able to find the actual model number of those drives and get a gold of a Mac compatible one?

How easy would it be to get hold of and install? Would Tiger (pre-ordered) just 'work' with it?

Thanks,

FireArse

Just get a Pioneer 109 Drive and it should work, patchburn may be required however to get it to work with the i Apps

[Lord Blackadder]

This is good stuff. Especially the GPU bumps to the 9600. Still no 3GHz, but really, is 2.7 THAT terrible? (especially with the possibility of it being the 970MP, although I'm not optomistic). It would be nice to see 1GB RAM standard on the PowerMacs.

The iMac is poised to improve on its already big sales with these improvements - with the rumored 128MB 9600 GPU and faster G5 it will have more credible gaming performance.

[Private Public]

If Apple is sticking to single core 970s, the middle should be at least 2.5 ghz. Instead, they're at 2.3 which leads me to believe that these are completely new chips, i.e. dual cores.

Could be right.

But we know the dual 2.0 don't need to be liquid cooled and the dual 2.3 from the xserve doesn't need to be liquid cooled so they just use those two chips and clock up the high end to 2.7 and leave it liquid cooled.

I want to believe in 970MP.

[dornoforpyros]

doh! I can handel the fact that that my 1.8ghz G5 won't be so great 2 months after I bought it but the dual layer DVD burner kinda has me choked.

[PCM]

As has been said many times...IF the prices COME WAY DOWN...then this is a great update. BUt charging twice as much as a custom AMD machine that will SMOKE these things just doesn't fly any more.

[ITR 81]

I hope these are dual cores or atleast the 2.7 is.

I was really hoping for some kind of update to the PowerBooks so I could buy one by May. I guess I'll be out of luck for another 3 months or so.

[borgobello]

Think Secret says: performance gains far greater than the 200-300MHz bumps. Far greater can be double, more or even less. But overall performance of upgraded PowerMacs should be better than today's G5 at 3Ghz. AGP slot is enough powerful for the most existing graphic cards, and after all the unique graphic card I've upgraded is the B&W PCI Range 128 with a flashed Radeon 7500. If in the BTO options there will be an ATI X800, I think it will be enough for doing anything. Personally I'll prefer a fanless 9600XT. Only if cheap enough i will consider a graphic card upgrade, and only if it will not need high noise fan. RAM... only 8 Gb? I work great with 1.5 Gb now, If I'll take a new PowerMac probably I'l buy it with 2Gb, or even not (1 Gb can be enough, ore I'll take it from PC store)... Dual Layer DVD+-RW is what I need, does BlueRay disk's exist? I mean, can anyone buy them anyware?

[aethier]

True but so far most consumer PC Mobos available and soon to be available for Dual Core Processors will still only support one Processor for both Intel and AMD. Seeing how most PowerMacs are allready Dual Processor the difference won't be that big comparing Dual Processor Power Macs to Single Processor Dual Core AMD and Intel Machines.

I have seen the Anandtech articles about Dual Core and the performance does not impress me the least. In fact the Multitasking on Windows machines using Dual Proccessors or Dual Core is poor when comparing to OSX. OSX while not perfect at multitasking can still handle better than Windows. Remember OSX was built with SMP in mind and has much more optimizations in the OS to take advantage of multiple threads. Apple's entire PowerMac lineup has been built around Dual processors at times for years now and that's why OSX is better than Windows when we are talking about multitasking. In fact Apple has been building MP machines for the past 10 years since the days of the PowerPC 604.

Anyhow even if the next update is not Dual Core I imagine we should have Dual Cored PowerMacs or Xserve by the end of the year and hopefully we should be up to 3Ghz by then which would put Apple in the same leauge as AMD.

how can you possibly say you were not impressed by thoughs benchmarks. current powermac g5's cannot play doom3 at

A:>The same level of performance / graphical beauty as those machines
B:>Current powermacs cannot do that while ripping mp3's in the background, and maintain a framerate above 70. hell a powermac cannot even get above 50...

the Intel Pentium Extreme Edition, and Pentium D (dual core, both) are two very kick ass chips. even as a die hard mac user i am finding it hard to want to buy a powermac with the current intel / amd performance offerings. My powerbook (1.25 AL 15inch, fully equipped) better last me a while, as the next computer i buy is likely to be a home built amd or intel based compy. as much as i cannot stand windows, i cannot justify (as a student) spending so much more on a powermac, when i could build something much faster for less. at least i have my powerbook...

[gugy]

Well, If these PowerMac upgrades are not dual core, then is a very sad improvement. More than 2 years to reach Steve's promise of a 3ghz PowerMac? This must be a joke! What's up IBM?
I guess I'll have to look into the Imac or wait for a powerbook G5 probably at WWDC.

[vtprinz]

Think Secret says: performance gains far greater than the 200-300MHz bumps. Far greater can be double, more or even less. But overall performance of upgraded PowerMacs should be better than today's G5 at 3Ghz. AGP slot is enough powerful for the most existing graphic cards, and after all the unique graphic card I've upgraded is the B&W PCI Range 128 with a flashed Radeon 7500. If in the BTO options there will be an ATI X800, I think it will be enough for doing anything. Personally I'll prefer a fanless 9600XT. Only if cheap enough i will consider a graphic card upgrade, and only if it will not need high noise fan. RAM... only 8 Gb? I work great with 1.5 Gb now, If I'll take a new PowerMac probably I'l buy it with 2Gb, or even not (1 Gb can be enough, ore I'll take it from PC store)... Dual Layer DVD+-RW is what I need, does BlueRay disk's exist? I mean, can anyone buy them anyware?

Read the whole sentence ;)

"The second core would deliver performance gains far greater than the 200-300MHz bumps each processor is receiving alone with the update"

It all depends on whether or not this is single or dual core. And, honestly, the specs don't point toward dual.

[atari]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret cites (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504macs.html) "highly reliable" source to provide us with detailed specs about upcoming hardware releases.

The new PowerMacs are said to top out at 2.7GHz in the following configurations:

Dual 2.0GHz, Dual 2.3GHz and Dual 2.7GHz with 512MB RAM featuring SuperDrives with dual-layer DVD+R support. No reliable info if the new processors will offer the multi-core 970MP or not.

The iMac G5 will reach 2GHz with two 17" and one 20" configuration, while the eMac will come with 1.25 and 1.42 GHz G4 processors as well an upgraded video card (64MB ATI Radeon 9600) to take advantage of Tiger's Core Image.

While the specs listed in this thread and on other sites seem to be realistic,I question them for 2 reasons:
1.) The 9650(Mobilty) was used in some Medion(European) Notebooks,other than that it has never been mentioned anywhere.
2.) If the report is accurate all Macs but the 12inch PB would feature ATI GPUs(yes,I know BTO with the PMs would still be an option); it is highly unlikely that Apple would all of a sudden rely on only one supplier for their GPU needs;I know it used to be that way in the IMac days,but video cards were not as important back then.

[MM2270]

All you naysayers, chill. I have been dying for a new tower and wanted to wait for the updates. I will get the middle of the road 2.3 Ghz and be very happy. After my 800mhz iMac G4, each processor will be three times as fast as my current computer.

All you complainers are following this almost exactly:

http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

If you can't laugh at that, you aren't a big enough Mac fan!


I don't care what apple ships, dual layer burners would be nice (yesssss!), as would dual core, but I'll take any speed boost I can for Cinema 4d.

All you guys who say apple will lose market share should look at how well G5's perform for Pro tasks like DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut, and Cinema 4d. The Mac implementation of Open GL holds back the real time performance of C4d but the full rendering speed (raytracing and radiosity) is the best for the buck. I came very, VERY close to switching to a PC lately. But for those of us who do pro work, the Mac is a (begin Donnie Brasco accent) beautiful thing.

nice work Apple. My only problem is that THEY AREN'T HERE YET.

That link was hilarious! And not too far from the truth either. Thanks for posting that.

Look, I can see why some people will be disappointed in these PM upgrades if they turn out NOT to be dual core procs. But can we please all wait until the official Apple announcement before writing off Apple as doomed? Geez people!

All I can say is that I for one may end up getting that dual 2.0 Ghz model if they come out with similar specs and the price is good. I don't need the super duper highest end whatchamallits gizmos on my computer. And I would suspect that most of the people whining here about these specs probably have no real need for one either. I use the current dual 2 G5 at work, and I'm quite happy with it's performance. I could be happy with one like that at home for the next 3+ years. By then, the G6 or whatever will be out most likely and that would be a nice next jump for me.

And lastly, for everyone saying that PCs are gonna whip these PowerMacs butts, did you all suddenly forget that those PCs run Winblows? Honestly, I couldn't care less if my Mac ran at 1/3 the speed of the top of the line PC out on the market. It still won't run Mac OS X Tiger, arguably the most advanced and usable (not to mention fun!) OS out there, as my PM at home will. It would take a WHOLE lot for me to give up OS X for crappy windows OS.

[Little Endian]

how can you possibly say you were not impressed by thoughs benchmarks. current powermac g5's cannot play doom3 at

A:>The same level of performance / graphical beauty as those machines
B:>Current powermacs cannot do that while ripping mp3's in the background, and maintain a framerate above 70. hell a powermac cannot even get above 50...

the Intel Pentium Extreme Edition, and Pentium D (dual core, both) are two very kick ass chips. even as a die hard mac user i am finding it hard to want to buy a powermac with the current intel / amd performance offerings. My powerbook (1.25 AL 15inch, fully equipped) better last me a while, as the next computer i buy is likely to be a home built amd or intel based compy. as much as i cannot stand windows, i cannot justify (as a student) spending so much more on a powermac, when i could build something much faster for less. at least i have my powerbook...

You read my first post but not my second which was posted before yours and explains how I can "say that".

As far as Doom III goes it's just one Game that is not SMP aware as you might know and happens to perform horribly on the Mac right now. Just to let you know though I have compressed a DVD with Limewire running in the background while Playing Doom III on my Dual 2.5Ghz Power Mac and still managed to Get 38FPS in Ultra Quality at 1680x1050 in contrast with Only one CPU running and no background applications going I get 42.1 FPS in timedemo with the same settings. As I mentioned earlier the Mac sucks at most Games compare to the PC but hopefully that will improve. In most aspects beyond gaming the Mac performs reasonably well.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1385630#post1385630

[wdlove]

I think it would be funny if Apple leaked bad info just to spite Think Secret. I can see Steve on stage unveiling a big banner with 3Ghz on it. Anything less is a disappointment...

June 2003 - "Within 12 months, we will be at 3GHz," Jobs said. "Believe me, this architecture has legs."

I could very well be that Think Secret is being conservative with posting of the specifications for the new Mac's. Something that needs to be done for safety post the lawsuit.

[iGary]

102 negatives. :eek:

[adamfilip]

Okay, so here's my question:

Xbox Next (aka Xbox 2, aka Xbox 360 - whatever you want to call it) is going to have 3 G5's in it, all of them running at 3Ghz.

Granted, it won't ship until this fall/winter, but still, WHY CAN'T APPLE MAKE A 3Ghz G5 IN THEIR POWERMACS?


I find it sad that Microsoft will be getting 3Ghz G5's before Apple does.

Rather embarrassing :(

-Nate

For one thing the chips that will be in the xbox2 are not the same used in Apples powermacs.
in all likely hood it will be a single chip 3 core
custom made for microsoft. that is prob optimized just for certain processes whitch will let it scale to 3 ghz

[herbalizer]

I have been waiting for years and years for apple to come out with a machine that is absolutely, unequivocally better than anything x86 can do. Maybe these dual core machines will be the ticket. Their OS is amazing, but they've got to make the hardware amazing x10 to win over all the mindless x86/windoze zombies. As good or a little better isn't going to work. To top it all off the machines have got to somewhat affordable. HEH NO PROB!

[Fredstar]

These reports are inaccurate imo
1: Apple will not update the iMac this early, it is still according to their website as the 'new' iMac G5. It ain't gonna happen, although there will be 512mb ram 'update' soon i can't see the new graphics card or speed bumps tbh. Apple are approaching a year long update model for all of their lines, it is a sad fact but it is true.

2: Probably correct on the Powermac front though, i don't think dual core's any time soon and it is coming upto a year so they need a quick refresh. Very dissapointing for Apple's pro users - i don't mind because i will never need that speed but they are losing their competitive edge.

3:Not sure about the gfx upgrade to the eMac, perhaps a quick speed bump and 512mb ram...maybe.

Things to note though, the processor problem is NOT Apple's fault at all - it is IBM's. YES it is VERY frustrating that Apple's line, apart from perhaps the iMac and Pmac, are so behind technology but that is the way it is.
Tiger is the only thing keeping me buying a Powerbook in the summer and that they are the best looking laptop available. And again it is frustrating the year long update cycle Apple are adopting, it is annoying thinking how outdated the Powerbook will be before christmas 05. When you look at the Centrino chip getting more cache and reaching speeds of over 2ghz now, it is frustrating.
I hope for Apple's sake that they have some tricks and good updates for this year.

[immac]

Apple will probably do like it always does - put the Latest and Greatest New Technology in the top end model only.

So basically, only the 2.7 will be both Dual Core and Dual Processor, while all the other ones will just be Single Core, Dual Processor.

That way, the top end model will still be a significant increase over the previous top end model, while the bottom models will still receive decent updates (more hd space, better optical drives, better vid cards, small cpu boost - probably a small price reduction too).

Mark my words, that is how it's going to be. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if new models were re-engineered and had room for an extra drive or two.

My only question is are they still going to cripple the bottom models w/ regular PCI? (instead of PCI-X)


Apple NEEDS to hit one outta the park and a 3 gigDCMP AND DCMP's on the good and better boxes woulda done that.

Unfortunately the above senario seems pretty much right on to me. IBM may not be able at the present time to cull enough 3 gig chips so 2.7 is safe. Right around 90-120 days after the proud new owners of the good and better machines receive theirs, Apple announces DC upgrades to one or both of those models as b4 with the single 1.8, cause there will be sufficient chips that didn't make the cut for the high end to be used up somewhere.Then (hopefully) sometime after that we see 3.0 on the high end. IBM gets much needed breathing room and apple gets easy updates.

I can't see them crippling the "lowend" machines . Although I do wonder if PCI Express (PCIe) might make it's debut in the big daddy- it would make a LOT more sense with the AWESOME capabilities of the DCMP processor... what good is a 200mph car with 100 mph rated tires?.
Which brings us to the memory... is the 3200 adequately matched for PCIe if we do see it ?.
They can keep the Blueray and/or doublesided DVD- I can can add it later for A LOT less money- but I guess it makes for more obnoxious advertising ...

[h0rriddr3am]

alright guys i know everyone is hoping for big PM updates and such... im thinking that apple could be heading that way.. or at least i hope so. I work at a tiger direct outlet and of course i work with windows/linux guru's who love their hardware. Im the mac guy there and im learning their stuff all the time. They all love OS X and it's look but they think that steve jobs is the one holding apple from making anything great. I mean u can get some nice stuff and everything.. but windows xp looks like garbage and linux is great but you have to run wine to get anything to run. Alright then they were like ya they showed that doom 3 ran way slower at fps and such and it had 4 gigs of ram. Well the vid card they give is crap... and well doom3 was originally designed with direct x 9 and then porting with open gl.. so of course ur gonna lose performance. I have been working with windows for a long time... and with all the stuff that happens wrong with it.. it just seems like junk. But i'll probably just sell my G5 to my mom or something and keep my powerbook and then build a amd 64/64-fx system.. either or.

ALSO YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT PCI-X IS NOT PCI-e

[tgilbey]

to my mind, if they are dual core chips, 4 core (total) machines, this is a good update. If not, it is pretty lame.
I really hope success in other product areas is not causing Apple to take it's eye off the PM ball. I love PMs but in order to continue to be the professional's choice they have to step up the graphics card situation: to be hanging around for chips that PC users have had for months is unacceptable.

Also I dislike the fact that they scrimp on key components, like RAM, to meet price points and avoid killer pricetagshock syndrome. I would seriously love to see statistics on the amount of people who actually bought the high-end PM with only 512 meg of ram. I would reckon it at below 5%. A 4-core PM with 512 meg? that is a joke. Sort it out and stop the brutal ram upgrade prices.

Same to the guy who asked why don't they make a fully-loaded iMac 20 box with BT keyboard.....because that would be a consumer marketed machine with the pricetag of a professional's PC setup

And nothing epitomises the cult of mac more for me than the idiots who side with apple in the thinksecret argument. If a major source of fun in your life is spoiled by the accurate pre-release predictions of these guys then you need to get out a bit more.
The responsibility of finding the source of the rumors is entirely apple's. If they can find an employee who broke a non-disclosure agreement then by all means throw the book at them. But to force a journalist to tell them who it was is disgusting and a violation of basic journalistic principles, which should be protected in law.

[xsnightclub]

How about a MR poll on what one statement Steve Jobs said that he most wishes he never did?

1: The PowerMac 3ghz statement.
2: The OS wars are over, MS won.
3: Sometimes when you innovate, you make mistakes. It is best to admit them quickly, and get on with improving your other innovations.

Just a small sample, any other suggestions?

My vote would be the PowerMac 3ghz statement as the one he would most like to have never said, it is so adversely affecting PM sales and will continue until they can reach 3ghz.

[trose]

i would be really surprised, and happy, if they shipped 9600's with 128mb with the imacs...
Me too... Apple is just horrible when it comes to video.
Main reason I keep putting off getting a new Mac for my sister is the pathetic video. I would have pre-ordered a Mini if it had 64MB of video RAM, and I would have already purchased a current spec iMac if it had 128... just can't justify the price for a last generation, non-upgradeable, video card with a paltry amount of VRAM.

If they do manage to get a 128MB Radeon 9600 in the iMac, I'll buy.

[xsnightclub]

Same to the guy who asked why don't they make a fully-loaded iMac 20 box with BT keyboard.....because that would be a consumer marketed machine with the pricetag of a professional's PC setup

They do, I am using one right now, also it came with 512 ram I had the Apple Store up it to 1g. And yes it was expensive, but I love it and everyone who sees it is impressed by it.

[daveL]

I really don't think we are talking 970MP here, or even the "GX" if, in fact, there is such a thing. The 512KB L2 cache in the specs doesn't match with the rumored 1 MB L2 cache. At the very least, one of the rumors is incorrect. In addition, if they were 970MP-based, it would make no sense not to offer at least one non-dual CPU configuration. Finally, I just can't see the 970MP being introduced at such a high clock rate. If they did manage to produce 970MPs @ 2.7 GHz, it would be a breakthrough for IBM, compared to AMD and Intel. It doesn't add up, for me, but I wouldn't mind being wrong.

On the system bus side, it's a bit hard to believe the PM line wouldn't be updated to PCIe, at this point, but given the GPU specs, I guess that has to be the conclusion. Then again, these *are* rumors. Tiger wasn't announced on April 1st, either, so ...

[morespce54]

I sure hope it's OS 7.5.5 bootable


You know what I would like to see also?
iPod but with color screen!!!! Maybe with a HD that can hold up to...lets say... 60GB! :rolleyes:

Oh My! Where was I for the last 24 months??? :eek: :D

[javiercr]

If they only had a single dual-core processor Apple would not miss the marketing opportunity of calling it a Dual (since it would be a dual!) :cool:

[ziwi]

Holding out hope of a MP versus GX, but will probably be prodded into an upgrade ;) - As was pointed out before this leaves little or nothing for wwdc.

[ts1973]

I really don't think we are talking 970MP here, or even the "GX" if, in fact, there is such a thing. The 512KM L2 cache in the specs doesn't match with the rumored 1 MB L2 cache. At the very least, more of the rumors is incorrect. In addition, if they were 970MP-based, it would make no sense not to offer at least one non-dual CPU configuration. Finally, I just can't see the 970MP being introduced at such a high clock rate. If they did manage to produce 970MPs @ 2.7 GHz, it would be a breakthrough for IBM, compared to AMD and Intel. It doesn't add up, for me, but I wouldn't mind being wrong.

On the system bus side, it's a bit hard to believe the PM line wouldn't be updated to PCIe, at this point, but given the GPU specs, I guess that has to be the conclusion. Then again, these *are* rumors. Tiger wasn't announced on April 1st, either, so ...

Spot on davel ! Best analysis of the situation I have read so far (and we're already 8 pages far).

Still a shame that the progress is so meagre however : I'm reallly in the market for a new PM (my dual 450 is 5 years old and it's my living after all), still I have some difficulty giving my hard-earned cash to Apple for this update...

[ScubaDuc]

I'm honestly not sure that you could get a mini to run with a 9600, a mobility 9600 but that raises the price significantly higher.

Who cares about the price? I have waited to get a mini with tiger and this core image thing bugs me. It seems to me that any computer sold should at least be able to run the apps that came with it and I would be happy to pay more for an upgraded albeit outdated videocard, if given a choice but Apple never asks us :rolleyes:

I know an i-Mac is better for my needs but I do not want an "all in one", not since my Apple LCD rendered its soul. Besides, it would be kind of hard to hide it through customs! :D

[Falleron]

If we only get 200mhz extra at the same sort of price as current towers then I wont be buying a new PowerMac. I do "want" one! But dont "need" one. If this rumour turns out to be true, then I will buy a Mac Mini + just wait for a decent tower. I am a Mac enthusiast + therefore can make do with a slower computer while I wait for a good upgrade to happen.

However, I believe this rumour to be false! I expect more.

[kirk26]

That's not really an appropriate comparison. The P4 is much slower clock-for-clock than the G5. A better comparison is with the AMD Athlon, or the Opteron.
* current top-of-the-line Athlon and Opteron is 2.6Ghz.
* dual-core Opterons will be released this quarter, at 1.8, 2.0, and 2.2Ghz.

So while the incremental advance of the G5 is disappointing, it's in the neighborhood.


Yea, but P4 just smokes the Mac everytime.

[Zigster]

Apple has to be careful not to lose their core video-editing audience. The portable HD cams are upon us this year, and filmmmakers are going to be wanting to edit their own flicks at home....People like FCP, and will allow for some speed loss to wintel machines, but if wintel machines have a huge margin of speed advantage, they will HAVE to buy wintel. It just saves you hours and hours of rendering time.

Apple really needs a video-editing monster machine.

Me, I'd like to take the new imac out for a spin, see if it can handle my video projects...

[kenaustus]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Jobs promised 3 Ghz Macs by this time LAST YEAR! Do we blame IBM only for that broken promise?

When the 3 Ghz was talked about "in 12 months" an IBM VP walked on stage and said 3 gigs in 12 months. It wasn't just Steve J talking - IBM had every intention of delivering or their VP would not have made a public announcement. Any tech company, even IBM, can hit a brick wall.

After IBM's problems moving to the 90 nm die and missing the 3 gig commitment I believe they are going to be moving faster with the dual core. It should be ready very soon - let's wait and see.

[virividox]

i say there will be a dual 3 :)

[vtprinz]

Should we be skeptical about any or all of these reports? We've heard no mention of EOL reports, no changes in shipping times or refurb prices. MR has already declared their source for the PM at NAB rumor to be unreliable. TS's reputation may be in question right now with the lawsuit, and AI hasn't heard a word on PMs.

MOSR doesn't think PMs are coming soon, but who cares about them right? :p

And as someone else pointed out, Tiger didn't get announced on the 1st (though they were close)

[broken_keyboard]

The next PowerMac G5 should have:

- a DVD burner that doesn't make so much noise when it spins up.
- a DVD burner door that doesn't go clunk, clunk
- a DVD burner that recognizes disks instantly instead of the current painful several second wait.

- Black keyboard. The white ones get dirty too easily.
- Single button mouse with wheel.
- No Bluetooth. Bluetooth is just silly.
- A decent build in speaker. Think music not beeps.

- Dual 3GHc CPU, non dual-core. At this point we need individual threads to run faster more than we need more simultaneous threads.
- PCIe slots. There won't be any good stuff for PCI/AGP pretty soon.
- Smaller overall size

[Bro]

im betting these 2.7's are now back to air cooling and liquid cooling is gone completely

That's the question for me. I still think liquid cooling for the 2.5 was a stop-gap. If Apple is still having cooling problems, then the 2.7 is liquid cooled and the 2.3 is air cooled. Any higher clock rate would be a heat problem for each cooling method.

The lame clock increases also explains why the rumored release is before the release of Tiger. 10% discount at night of Tiger, with new OS might sway some people to bite.

[Zigster]

Thank god Apple has the Ipod biz. They are getting hammered on hardware. :rolleyes:

[Frobozz]

Thank god Apple has the Ipod biz. They are getting hammered on hardware. :rolleyes:

Actually they sold more Macs than they have in years this quarter.

[Zigster]

True enough. Sales is what counts. I would hate to see them give up the high-end user however. They are on the brink right now.

[Eric5h5]

my question is...are those g5's still going to sound like a hairdryer running under or on your desk? *what's that you say*? I CAN"T HEAR YOU SPEAK UP!!!

I'm not sure what you mean by "still," since they never did. At least my dual 2.5 doesn't. It's a low hum, with occasional whirring, which is still not anywhere near hairdryer level....

--Eric

[Frobozz]

Started out with PM's, I think they switched it all over to xserves after about a year. Not sure. If so, I wonder what happened to all those PMs....

Either way it started a trend. Within a year of being rated 3rd a handful of other universities followed suit and started putting together their own G5 clusters.

Is that the Virgina Tech cluster? Sweet. Yeah, that started a trend that really boosted Apple's street credit on supercomputing clusters.

[coolfactor]

Welcome boost in RAM, hard disk size, etc, but after all this time we want a big boost in performance, not trifles.

We're getting a big boost in performance -- with a more efficient operating system, Tiger!

Silly boy.

[dongmin]

I really don't think we are talking 970MP here, or even the "GX" if, in fact, there is such a thing. The 512KM L2 cache in the specs doesn't match with the rumored 1 MB L2 cache. At the very least, more of the rumors is incorrect. In addition, if they were 970MP-based, it would make no sense not to offer at least one non-dual CPU configuration. Finally, I just can't see the 970MP being introduced at such a high clock rate. If they did manage to produce 970MPs @ 2.7 GHz, it would be a breakthrough for IBM, compared to AMD and Intel. It doesn't add up, for me, but I wouldn't mind being wrong.

On the system bus side, it's a bit hard to believe the PM line wouldn't be updated to PCIe, at this point, but given the GPU specs, I guess that has to be the conclusion. Then again, these *are* rumors. Tiger wasn't announced on April 1st, either, so ...The 1MB L2 cache rumors are just that, rumors. AFAIK, there's nothing more solid about the specs of this 970MP other than a eWeek rumor and Thinksecret. The specs could be off.

Also, I don't see why Apple wouldn't go all duals. They've done it before. I can see a scenario where the top two models are "dual duals" and the bottom just a dual. Well, that's my hope anyways. Given that the iMacs are going to 2.0 ghz, it makes sense that Apple will go all dual to distinguish the two lines.

As I pointed out before, Apple has traditionally moved the middle to the bottom and top to the middle in their updates. A dual 2.0 ghz (single core) is currently the middle, so it'd fall logically into the bottom in the next update.

With that said, I'm 50-50 at this point. The dual core scenario seems too good to be true. But it's gotta happen sooner or later. The recent revision to the OS to accomodate 4 processors seems to support the dual core scenario. The 512k cache seems to argue against it.

[Beck446]

Well, I don't have time to read the whole thread to see if this has been said, but the more I think about it, the separation between 2.5 and 2.7 is so slight that unless Apple is going to put something great only in the 2.7, there isn't enough product differentiation. The chance of the 2.7 being MP, I think, is quite high.

[Frobozz]

wtf is going on with apple stock. Are stock holders idiots. I would assume nobody would want to cash out until apple starts declining in sales....i don't know its ilogical to me! I'm just venting cuz i bought some recently :confused:

What you see today is institutional sell off, not individual investors. The street always wants better news than is realistic. Apple had their best Q2 ever and sold more Macs and More iPods that most predicted. Even more importantly, they predicted similar sales for Q3, which is traditionally the slowest quarter (meaning there's relative growth.)

It's just the street. If you're a smart individual investor you may take this chance to jump into Apple in the sub $40 range ($37 as I type this). Most analysts have a $50 to $60 price target, which would be a sweet profit. Looking at these numbers I think the long term ramifications are all positive.

I bought shares at $16 before it split. Believe me, if I hadn't taken an 80% profit (unheard of most of the time) in the $28 range I would have held for a lot longer. That was just before it took off. Either way my IRA is sitting pretty as a result.

[ts1973]

The 1MB L2 cache rumors are just that, rumors. AFAIK, there's nothing more solid about the specs of this 970MP other than a eWeek rumor and Thinksecret. The specs could be off.

With that said, I'm 50-50 at this point. The dual core scenario seems too good to be true. But it's gotta happen sooner or later. The recent revision to the OS to accomodate 4 processors seems to support the dual core scenario. The 512k cache seems to argue against it.

I think it very unlikely that a multicore processor would be starved by only 512kb cache (that would mean only 256kb per core).
Anyway : let's hope you are right about this.

[Frobozz]

Well, I don't have time to read the whole thread to see if this has been said, but the more I think about it, the separation between 2.5 and 2.7 is so slight that unless Apple is going to put something great only in the 2.7, there isn't enough product differentiation. The chance of the 2.7 being MP, I think, is quite high.

Agreed. I think that the separation is so slight (8%) that it indicates there's something in the spec's we're not seeing. I think a dual core chip is most likely-- and the faster (HT2?) bus and higher L2 cache will contribute significantly.

[Hattig]

I am surprised at the negativity in this thread.

What you negative people don't realise is that Intel have taken 3 years to get an 800MHz increase to a 3GHz processor. Intel made very loud sounds about 5GHz and even 10GHz processors by 2006/7, and look what happened. 90nm really didn't work well for Intel, whereas for AMD it cut down power consumption significantly, but clock speed increases are only now starting to happen.

This is why AMD went dual-core (it has been on their roadmap for 6 years) and Intel suddenly did the same when they realised their 90nm process sucked for fast transistors.

The fastest single core AMD processor today is 2.6GHz. 2.8GHz will be released soon, in the FX range anyway (i.e., uniprocessor only). A dual single-core processor at 2.7GHz is not that bad at all, it is competitive. AMD's upcoming dual-cores will be at 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2GHz, and 2.4GHz for the desktop Athlon 64 (i.e., no dual-dual 2.4GHz option, only dual-dual 2.2GHz Opteron at high prices). The Intel dual-core solution will not be available for multi-processor options until 2006, the current dual-core solutions are a stop-gap desktop measure, meaning at most two cores in a system, and at rather low speeds too. The AMD dual-core chips will cream the Intel ones in most benchmarks.

Looking at the specs, it seems that all three machines are merely incremental updates. The improved graphics capability is good as it was required, and the 512MB RAM is also good as it was required. Simple speed bumps. The PowerMac will be single-core processors, Apple surely would want to be more vocal about dual dual-core 2.7GHz systems!

This doesn't preclude a major update in 4-6 months time though with dual-core G5s in all the G5 systems, and so on. Apple just had to make their current desktop lineup less stale. Which is good, I'd rather incremental specification updates than no updates, and I think the updates are about keeping Apple competitive, which they will. I'd hope for some price cuts too, but I'm not holding out on this aspect!

The good news for me is that it seems that incremental iBook and PowerBook updates aren't happening, so maybe there will be a real new iBook and PowerBook release within the next month. The sad loner system will be the Mac Mini with its weak graphics and base RAM configuration - I imagine that there'll be an update mid-year.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Jeez - you turn your head for a few hours, and suddenly the thread's up to nine pages long!!

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it already, but how does the 128MB Radeon 9600 rate against other cards?

I'm still on my little Cube, but upped the GPU to a Radeon 7500 some time ago. That was about the last time I actually looked around at graphics cards...

But with THIS new iMac upgrade, I'll put my order in as soon as they become available.

:D

[devman]

wow, different strokes for different folks I guess...

The next PowerMac G5 should have:

- a DVD burner that doesn't make so much noise when it spins up.
- a DVD burner door that doesn't go clunk, clunk
- a DVD burner that recognizes disks instantly instead of the current painful several second wait.

Mine isn't as noisy as your message seems to suggest (?)


- Black keyboard. The white ones get dirty too easily.
- Single button mouse with wheel.

I prefer the white keyboards but it's not a big deal to me. I agree a single button mouse with a scrollwheel would be very, very nice.


- No Bluetooth. Bluetooth is just silly.

Yikes! I think not getting bluetooth is just silly. BT sync to my phone, BT connecting my phone to Address book (for call logging, sending SMS, and dialling), plus wireless keyboard and mouse (and headset with Tiger).

[dongmin]

I think it very unlikely that a multicore processor would be starved by only 512kb cache (that would mean only 256kb per core).
Anyway : let's hope you are right about this.No you're right that 512K per processor would be too little. But I'm hoping it's a typo on Thinksecret's part and that it's actually 512K per core. TS maintains that their sources can't confirm whether it's dual cores or not. So the 512K cache figure must be less than clear.

Edit: I just checked the leaked IBM .doc regarding 970MP thermal diodes, and it does indeed say 1MB of L2 per core. So, bad news if TS rumors are true.

[wdlove]

Agreed. I think that the separation is so slight (8%) that it indicates there's something in the spec's we're not seeing. I think a dual core chip is most likely-- and the faster (HT2?) bus and higher L2 cache will contribute significantly.

Is the dual core considered a completely new chip? Wonder about reliability? So will this be a true Rec. C of the Power Mac G5? Should there be concern about purchasing the first model?

[madmaxmedia]

As dissatisfied as you sound, switch. Apple is not going to satisfy you, so you should just switch. This is how Apple has operated since Jobs returned, and since their profits and revenues keep increasing, I doubt it's going to change. Unless Apple starts using Intel/AMD hardware, they will never match the raw hardware performance. Accept it or move on, but you shouldn't cause yourself grief over Apple. It's not worth it. Despite what's said XP isn't the worst thing in the world.

That has nothing to do with his gripe. If Apple had faster hardware they would be selling it. The problem has been IBM/Moto falling behind Intel/AMD.

He's not even complaining about pricing, he's complaining about upper-end performance.

Most PowerMac users are willing to pay a premium for top-end performance, but they aren't willing to pay a premium for an Apple aluminum case.

In fact, I would say Apple's operating strategy relies on having close to top-of-the-line hardware. That's how they can charge premium prices for PowerMacs and PowerBooks, and have decently priced and decently spec'ed consumer lines.

But due to lack of progress at the high-end, the entire product line is getting wonkier (iBook almost equals PBook), and Apple ends up having to cripple even consumer level machines to maintain distinction of the high-end machines.

Hardware is now the main problem Apple faces, otherwise it would be firing on ALL cylinders. It's not a critical blow, but is a signficant problem that MUST be solved. By Apple, IBM, Freescale, whatever or whoever...

[rog]

Hey all,

I'm quite happy with my 3month old Dual 2.0GHz powermac - however i would love to get hold of one of those new DVD+RW DL drives (featured in the possible PM update) on its own. Where would i be able to find the actual model number of those drives and get a gold of a Mac compatible one?

How easy would it be to get hold of and install? Would Tiger (pre-ordered) just 'work' with it?

Thanks,

FireArse

go to newegg.com and buy the NEC 3520A for $65 or so. 16X, DL, easy to install, then download Patchburn 3. Check out xlr8yourmac.com for all sorts of resources on upgrading optical drives.

[jiggie2g]

Umm.... maybe you had better get a reality check.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2388&p=12

The Pentium Extreme 840 running with Dual Cores @ 3.2Ghz encodes a DVD in 7.4 Minutes. My Dual 2.5Ghz G5 can encode a DVD in about 8-12 minutes. Still faster than a single Athlon 64FX-55 and just a couple minutes slower than 700Mhz faster Dual Cored 3.2Ghz Pentium Extreme 840. I would guess that a Dual Core or Dual Processor G5 @ 2.7Ghz would come even closer in score to the Extreme Edition 840 and most Certainly match or beat a 2.8Ghz Dual Core Pentum D.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2388&p=9

I can also convert a 12Mb .wav file to MP3 192KBs with itunes 4.7 in under 5 seconds while the Dual Core Pentium Exreme 840 takes 29 seconds? Maybe this is an unfair test though since it's Apple software on an Apple Machine. However My DVD compress was done with DVD2OneX which is not Highly optimized for SMP.

http://barefeats.com/macvpc.html

Here is a link of how the Dual 2.5Ghz G5 compares to the Dual Processor Opteron 252 clocked at 2.6Ghz, Dual Xeon @ 3.4Ghz and an Athlon FX55.
As you can see the Dual Processor G5 matches or beats the PCs in almost every scenario. The Pentium Extreme 840 and Pentium D are not much faster if at all in most scenarios than a Dual Opteron or Xeon system. Also keep in mind that Tiger is supposed to offer a nice speed bump in most areas and these tests were done under Panther 10.3

I do admit though that the Mac performs horribly at Games in comparison to the newest PCs but hopefully that Gap will become smaller with Tiger and future driver updates. In most things besides Games the G5 PowerMacs can compare reasonably well with top of the line PCs.

I also Don't think you quite understand that having two single cored Processors Performance wise is almost the same as a Single Processor with two cores assuming similar clock speeds and Core. So a Power Mac with two seperate chips running at 2.7Ghz should perform on par or beat a Single Pentium chip with two cores running at 2.8Ghz. Remember the G5 is still faster clock for clock than even the newest Pentium Cores. The Pentiums Two cores share an 800Mhz Bus as well while the 2.7Ghz G5 machine is supposed to have two independent busses running at 1.35Ghz. If you were talking about Dual Processor Dual Cored PC's you would have some point of validity with Quad core. However the Intel Extreme and D as well as the upcoming Dual Core Athon only support one Dual Core Chip. Sure the Dual Core AMD Athlon is still socket 939 however it still supports only one Dual Cored Chip until the Dual Cored Opteron 265/275 series is available at a whopping $850-$1300 per Dual Cored Chip. So one can have a quad cored Opteron for about $2000-$3000 just for the CPUs and MOBO as most A64 and FX support only one 939 socket.

At the rate we are going we most certainly will see a Quad Cored 970 MP setup available from Apple hopefully by the end of the year. Apple's CHUD tools allready support controls for a Dual Processor Dual Cored system. I think you underestimate how far the Mac has come within the past couple of years.


1st of all let me say that I don't are 2 craps about Intel except for the Pentium M which is an awesome cpu. I used the Pentium D as an example because it will be out in a month and at a low cost $240 (DC 2.8ghz) , $280(DC 3.0ghz) , $380(DC 3.2ghz).

Unlike the G5 you care not stuck with what you pay for , as you can clearly see here http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050405/index.html .
Tomshardware OC'd this CPU to a Dual 4ghz with little effort , and that's scary.

Once AMD take the curtain off the DC stuff everyone is expection mindblowing numbers, and I don't care about barefeats bias results and tests, by the way the Dual G5's only one 2 of those test and got owned ever where else , expeciually when it came to the SMP test vs. the FX-55.

you see in the PC world no one plays by the vendor rules .....meaning staying at stock speed. Every one 14yrs old and up who build's a PC OC's the crap outta every CPU. you wanna see something interesting look here....http://www.overclockers.com/tips00758/ . now that's what i call impressive.

And sometime next year AMD will be moving to a newer platform that will support DDR2-667 and Virtualization(hypertreading)....http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22531 .

[Gohan]

Jeez - you turn your head for a few hours, and suddenly the thread's up to nine pages long!!

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it already, but how does the 128MB Radeon 9600 rate against other cards?

I'm still on my little Cube, but upped the GPU to a Radeon 7500 some time ago. That was about the last time I actually looked around at graphics cards...

But with THIS new iMac upgrade, I'll put my order in as soon as they become available.

:D

Closest comparison to the 9600 would be the FX 5700. To be honest if that is going to be the GPU upgrade for the iMac I’m totally under whelmed! With cards not that far away running a 32 pipeline architecture or even the current crop running 16 pipes putting a 4 pipe card in a £1300 computer is just criminal.

I can understand that heat would be and issue but at the very least the imac should be shipping with a 6200 /6600 or a mobility X700 or X800. None of those would produce enough heat to be and issue, well perhaps the 6600GT might be pushing it.

[Blue Moon]

That seals the deal, I'm getting an iMac, not a PowerMac.

[tgilbey]

Hattig, I think you speak a lot of sense, and I think that most people long ago accepted that a love for macs is a very expensive love, but people who are self-employed or part of small organisations will always look for price-performance. At the moment, I think that mac are "getting hammered on hardware" a bit as, whilst AMD are at a similar place with chip performance, you can put together an AMD machine at a much cheaper price point. I know that international pricing differences are another argument altogether, but fully loading a powermac with all the features I would want here in the uk would cost over 3150 GBP, or just under 6000USD. I would bet a lot of money that I could put together an AMD machine with the same, if not better, componentry, for about 2000 GBP.

The 2000USD difference is far too much for most users to pay just to run OSX.

[aljawad]

I was at the London Apple store yesterday– where I purchased an iPod Photo with all the trimmings, including the camera connector!:D

(BTW, that store is HEAVEN for Mac-Heads from around the world!)

Anyhow, one of the presenters mentioned an upcoming Apple event “soon”– he didn’t know what was it gonna cover, but he had the impression it was something related to the iTunes store???
:rolleyes:

[MrKahuna]

Who cares about the price? I have waited to get a mini with tiger and this core image thing bugs me. It seems to me that any computer sold should at least be able to run the apps that came with it...

Except that core image is not an app. It is a component of the OS that can provide better performance on certain things. I think it's entirely reasonable that a low end computer might not be able to take advantage of all the components of the OS. You'll be able to run all the apps in Tiger, just not as fast as a higher end Mac. It's no different in the PC world, a $500 PC doesn't use all the potential components of WinXP (e.g. Hyper-Threading).

[iGary]

OK...

EVERYONE NEEDS TO TAKE A CHILL ON THIS FREAKING CORE IMAGE THING.

If your GPU is not supported, you CPU will handle the graphic task.

CHILL.

Ugh. :mad:

[maddav]

Yay finally, I've saved up best part of £1700 for a new desktop and it's been burning a hole in my bank account, time for a lovely new 20" iMac 2GHz!

So I suppose they'll anounce it next tuesday with the Powerbook G5s :p

[tex210]

I took a friend to compusa the other day I wanted to see if they had the mini in. Bear with me, There is a point. He's a regular joe type. He fell in love with the AIO Imac. His priorities are 1. Itunes 2. Porn 3. Web 4. The way the machine looked (he loved the screen) & 5. Mac os X(he's done windows and was bored by it). He's waiting for the next revision for Apple to work out any kinks, and for Tiger to be included. The specs are not on his radar. If Apple lowered specs on the next release it wouldn't matter to him. I could gigahertz this and gigabyte that, but all he wants to know is will it do what he wants to do.
My priorities are not too far from his, not necessarily in the same order add video/photo editing, simple web design and dvd burning. An lcd panel is great, but price is a priority for me, so I am looking forward to a new emac, or the next revision of the mini. I did drool all over that iMac though..
edit: Core image... who cares! My current computer doesn't have altivec either, but will still run Tiger. With Altivec and a much faster processor than my current, I think I'll be very pleased.

[nagromme]

A great update if those are "dual duals"... if not, then OK, but don't stay with 2.7 for too long! :)

Pricing is a question mark too.... I know a lot of people want an iMac to be a top-of-the-line hard-core gaming machine, which I doubt it ever will be. But will the new improved specs cost the same (or less than) the old, despite adding BT standard etc.? That would be great--and after all, LCD prices are dropping they say...

[robotnick2000]

OK...
EVERYONE NEEDS TO TAKE A CHILL ON THIS FREAKING CORE IMAGE THING.
If your GPU is not supported, you CPU will handle the graphic task.
CHILL.
Ugh. :mad:

:confused:
A CPU should have better things to do than handle GPU's work. My 0.02 €.

Please all go and visit Tom's Hardware (http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-07.html) and find what a piece of sh** the Radeon 9600 (yes, even the XT actually in OpenGL is!!!!

For your convenience: you'll find the 9600 easier if you start from the bottom line...:mad:

It exaclty as weak as the 5200 Ultra currently in iMacs and bottom-line G5's! I find that unbelievable!!!

I really hope this is some sort of "bad joke vengeance" from TS to show Apple how much pressure they can get from TS...

R2K

[devman]

OK...

EVERYONE NEEDS TO TAKE A CHILL ON THIS FREAKING CORE IMAGE THING.

If your GPU is not supported, you CPU will handle the graphic task.

CHILL.

Ugh. :mad:

Hey, I totally agree with you that people need to chill out. The core image thing is being way overblown by most.

But, it's not as simple as your CPU doing what an unsupported GPU can't. Some things are just not done on an unsupported system. e.g. the dashboard widget ripple is not there at all on an iBook. (now, if you say who cares, then I agree with that too - but the blanket statement that your CPU will handle it if your GPU is not supported is not correct).

[cgc]

When will they hit three

Doesn't really matter. You're saying that 3.0GHz is the magic number, but that's only .3GHz faster than the current projections. When will they go 970MP is the big question.

[iGary]

Hey, I totally agree with you that people need to chill out. The core image thing is being way overblown by most.

But, it's not as simple as your CPU doing what an unsupported GPU can't. Some things are just not done on an unsupported system. e.g. the dashboard widget ripple is not there at all on an iBook. (now, if you say who cares, then I agree with that too - but the blanket statement that your CPU will handle it if your GPU is not supported is not correct).

Understood, but it's not like this is an earth shattering thing. I can understand the frustration (I have two unsupported machines, though I may buy a card for the G4), but it's been expolained over and over again in multiple threads.

OK I'm done bitchin.

:D

[appleface]

"All models will also feature Bluetooth 2.0" according to thinksecret. that means they are ready for remote controllers. come on asteroid!

[nagromme]

the blanket statement that your CPU will handle it if your GPU is not supported is not correct).

But are people suggesting that Apple shouldn't make use of the power of higher-end boards? Should they take things away from people with higher boards, to make people with low-end Macs feel better? That's silly.

That's like saying Apple shouldn't support DVD burning, because it's optional hardware. Or that Apple shouldn't support printing, because not everyone has a printer.

Meanwhile, ripple effect or no, you have Dashboard functionality in Tiger even on a G3!

[devman]

But are people suggesting that Apple shouldn't make use of the power of higher-end boards? Should they take things away from people with higher boards, to make people with low-end Macs feel better? That's silly.

That's like saying Apple shouldn't support DVD burning, because it's optional hardware. Or that Apple shouldn't support printing, because not everyone has a printer.

Meanwhile, ripple effect or no, you have Dashboard functionality in Tiger even on a G3!

Terrific. But, I never said any of the things you are rebutting :confused:

[sigamy]

Quotes from 2002:
"Man, Moto sucks! 200mhz in one year?! Is that all they can do with the G4? Apple better dump Moto and wake up because x86 is killing us!"


Quotes from 2005:
"Man, IBM sucks! 200mhz in one year?! Is that all they can do with the G5? Apple better dump IBM and wake up becasue x86 is killing us!"


It's deja vu all over again.

[BornAgainMac]

2.7 Ghz?! It's time to get the paint out. Powermacs in 5 lickable colors.

[sw1tcher]

Wow. Speed bumps.... the kind that prevent you from going too fast. :rolleyes:

[Hiroshige]

If this rumor is true and you might be able to get a dual 2 Ghz with 512 MB RAM and an ATI 9600 for $1999 (what the dual 1.8 costs now with only 256 and the FX 5200)- then that is a significant price drop from $2499 and it would be golden.

So while the high end is not good, the low end is outstanding.

They should put PCI-E on the high end, at least.

[dicklacara]

His priorities are 1. Itunes 2. Porn 3. Web 4. The way the machine looked (he loved the screen) & 5. Mac os X(he's done windows and was bored by it).

... now, if you could combine iTunes with porn... wouldn't that be something? :)

[crpchristian]

If apple announces some killer new PM's at NAB then, wonderful, if not, then WTF? IBM has to be getting a ton of money to be putting into R&D right now, all three next gen consoles are going with IBM, on top of apple and pre existing buisness. WIth the wait going this long i see only 2 possibilities. Either Apple/IBM has held off speed bumps for and entire year because they are, as planned, realeasing some hot new technology OR, they planned to and aren't able to come up with what htey hoped for...which would be a super shame. It seems so hard to believe a 200mhz speed bump, if thats more or less all it is, wouldn't have come out months ago.

And so true with the apple proline tappering off...WHY buy a power mac when you can get an imac that includes that killer screen...all that extra money just for expansion possibilities....not justified.

Its all rumors until the show....I really hope i won't regreat waiting an entire year on getting a PM....ugh.. "year of HD"... how can he say that and it not mean killer new hardware......COME ON NAB..GET HERE ALREADY

[itsa]

... now, if you could combine iTunes with porn... wouldn't that be something? :)
a lot of the music on there is no better than porn.

[tex210]

... now, if you could combine iTunes with porn... wouldn't that be something? :)

LOL! That's actually why I don't think Apple wants to be in the movie distribution business. We all know what will be hot sellers/rentals.

edit: Bornagainmac, please no to the colors... that was the whole retail Imac problem... kinda like gold iPods.

[Yvan256]

OK...

EVERYONE NEEDS TO TAKE A CHILL ON THIS FREAKING CORE IMAGE THING.

If your GPU is not supported, you CPU will handle the graphic task.

CHILL.

Ugh. :mad:

Indeed. The way I understand it, CoreImage will try to use the hardware in such manner:

- Use the GPU
- if the GPU can't do the task, ask the CPU
- Does the CPU has Altivec? Yes, use that
- No Altivec? Use generic G3 code then

In short, use what works best given a certain task.

[alfismoney]

ok, so the powermac updates may or may not be worth buying.

what do we know about fcp 5 and the other software? what do people hear about support for cluster rendering? how about mpeg/imx? an improved render engine? better audio support? some form of audio editing (most likely logic as it's in house) integration which we are GRAVELY lacking now?

[HiRez]

If it's true I'm very disappointed. After all that time, 3ghz is the bare minimum. We also need more RAM than 512 MB, faster RAM than the PC3200 and the possibility to have more than 8 Gigs.I don't have a problem with 512 MB of RAM, that is an adequate baseline for OS X right now, plenty to load the OS and do basic tasks without thrashing the HD. You can always add your own later, it's inexpensive if you don't buy it from Apple, easy to install, and with 8 RAM slots you have a lot of options. More than 8 GB of RAM? Meh. The percentage of people who could actually use that has to be miniscule, I would bet far less than 1%. Once apps are able to address more than 4 GB, we'll see. I think an 11" x 14", 32-bit image at 2,000 dpi takes up about 2 GB, so it's possible people will need more than 8, but does everyone who doesn't need it want to pay for the added expense of adding those RAM slots, controllers for them, etc? I doubt it. Personally I'd like to see space utilized for more internal drive bays before RAM slots.